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pelfdaddy
Intermediate Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 166.217.96.28
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | 
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The Tenth
How many mealy-mouthed preachers there are!
Who leave off demanding The Tenth
How else to acquire a luxury car
And gird it about with a fenth?
The patriarchs knew ‘twas the Lord owned the land
They rendered of all the first Tenth
Of every increase that came into their hand
To them this made perfect good senth
In due course of time the great priestly repast
Was to dine of the national Tenth
This was for them? Do you say this is past?
We invite you to get yourself henth!
Now a fine priest we have in a white shirt and tie
Deserving of every man’s Tenth
And every God-robber is fated to die
Unless he pays up and repenth |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.170.121.192
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:33 pm: |
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I'm starting to think that Davis studied Jim Baker's ways. They both operated in Missouri. And they both took a lot of offerings that somehow didn't make it to where the people who gave were told it would go.
It took some time in jail for Baker to denounce his prosperity gospel ways. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 786
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:05 pm: |
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Have to admit pelfrey, this one made me laugh. |
mark_g
Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 90
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:06 pm: |
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"I'm starting to think that Davis studied Jim Bakker's ways."
I saw where Tammy Faye Messner (Bakker) Just passed away recently. I have to say that I'm sorry for her passing, But she is someone that I absolutely despised. It reminds me, (But of course on a much smaller scale) of NTCC. A whole bunch of people have gotten hurt on both sides of the fence.
I've been thinking, and of course there is no way to prove what I'm saying until it happens, But, I think that after RWD is gone that the very worst is in store for New Testament Christian Church. believe that they are going to be brought very, very low.
And no, I didn't see an Angel, nor did God speak to me with an audible voice. |
bud
New member
Username: bud
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.35.190.72
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:43 pm: |
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mark-g, I'd sure like to see Rw get his just dues in this life, or some of it anyway. But, you are probably right about them eventually being brought low after his decease. We've all done a fair share of wrong, but he knows what he's doing and continues and is so proud about it all! But,the Lord will repay him justly, eventually.
nbrown, Yes, Tammy Faye just died. She had cancer for quiet some time. She was on Larry King just a few days before her death. She had repented and remarried. I didn't care for her style and all of that, but she sure had spunk. Her first husband put her through hell on earth. |
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 99
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 1:38 am: |
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If you assume, for the sake of argument, an average income of $20,000 per year, (the national average is actually much higher,) 1,000 tithe payers would yield a revenue stream of $2 million per year. |
bud
New member
Username: bud
Post Number: 25
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.35.190.72
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 1:44 am: |
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Wow! They are really raking it in, in Graham! You know the average family makes more than that! So on BS students and ministers alone (not counting regular members, I mean) they make that much. Whew! Anyone want to guess what it really is? |
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 100
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 3:36 am: |
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I think it would be an interesting and revealing exercise to pool our limited but cumulative knowledge and try to work up a business model of the Graham church.
Truth is, NOBODY knows what goes on with their money, because it's all shrouded in secrecy and everyone in the organization understands the penalties associated with asking unwelcome questions.
Yet, there are some things that we DO know, and there are some things that we can find out.
For example: how much cash is taken in, on average, during a single service in Graham? We'd have to have an average number of attendees and a low-ball estimate of how much each gives per service. Multiply it by four, and you have a weekly estimate; multiply that by 4.33, and you have a monthly estimate. We'd have to have a sound estimate of how many tithe payers are at that church, too. We can find out the property taxes of each building, because it's public record. And we could probably find out what their utilities are, too.
It's hard to imagine any scenario that does not result in them raking in vastly more money than their operating expenses require, but it would be interesting to try to figure it out based on what we know and what can be safely assumed. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 202
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.216.63.22
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 4:54 am: |
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mark g:
Not fence, but fenth. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 203
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.216.63.22
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 5:00 am: |
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" I think that after RWD is gone that the very worst is in store for New Testament Christian Church. believe that they are going to be brought very, very low."
The Kid-in-law will be in charge. Kekel the Kid. Kid Butcher.
(None of Davis' group likes Kekel, because they know he's just an upstart daughter-grabber for power. But then, it's Davis who set it up that way in his personal Corporation. So, Davis still has the greater sin...) |
tracy_pelfrey
Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.1.208
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:13 am: |
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For a long, long time...the average total of attendees in Graham (including the children in Children's church...after all, they also give in the offering)...this included both services in the morning, 9:30 and 10:30, was about 1100. But, you must take into account that many included in that number were folks who played in the band and had to be there both services and all of the children which had to be there for both services because one or more of the parents had to stay, and the men and women in the choir who were required to be there for both services...and it is really much lower than 1100...the combined total for two services on a Sunday morning.
The good news though, for the NTCC coffers, is that most in attendance are Bible School students and ministers and their families, and single ladies who are hanging around and "waiting" and single men...minister-types...who are also hanging around Graham...and "waiting"....
...these are all who MUST...without fail...give ten percent of all which is added unto them...which includes more than money. If one were to receive a gift of a used vehicle, from a parent or rich uncle...they would have to tithe on the approximate value of that vehicle...I guess the Graham office might whip out their Kelly Blue Book to determine if you "shorted" God or not on that transaction.
So, figure, maybe 100-125 kids who are 9 and under. Then, subtract all of those who are ten and over(maybe be conservative and say, another 50)...who do not work and so do not tithe:
EXCEPTION:
At Christmas and Birthdays and Graduations, when the parents tithe ten percent of all that the children have received by way of money and gifts from their Grandmas and Grandpas and Aunties and Unks.
Subtract out any new visitors who don't "know any better" YET.
Now you've reduced that 1100 by quite a bit...but again, it is much more than any local church...because of the comparatively large number of "assigned" church members as opposed to those who are "mere" church members.
I just checked out the NTCC Good News Blog site and found that there were about 29 graduates last year. That's not very much.
Hopefully that gives you something to work with. |
anewlife
New member
Username: anewlife
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 75.179.177.102
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 4:10 pm: |
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"Her first husband put her through hell on earth." (Tammy Faye)
I saw her on Larry King too. It was really sad. But she died with a sense of humor. When asked what did she think people would remember most about her. She replied, 'My eyelashes' and then just bellied over laughing. I sat there watching and thinking, Wow! Cancer is eating away at her insides and she manages to tell a joke and laugh. That was too beautiful.
She also mentioned that Jim, her first husband never contacted her once upon finding out about her cancer or her slow death. That is just awful. Divorce or not she is still a human being. |
anewlife
New member
Username: anewlife
Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 75.179.177.102
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 4:44 pm: |
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Tracy, remember how they would always say in class or service that you were supposed to round the tithe off to the higher number. One preacher even laughed at how somebody actually put change in their tithe envelope instead of going to the next dollar. Saying that he was thrifty when it came to the things of God. Why does everyone have to be labeled this or that. Everything is so ridiculous with that group. |
mark_g
Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 92
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 7:03 pm: |
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"Her first husband put her through hell on earth." (Tammy Faye)"
I've got a book that was written during the time of the PTL scandal. It was written by someone who knew the people, as well as all the inner workings of the group itself. The name of the book is "Don't call me Brother" and the author's name is Austin Miles. I read the book years ago, and it still occupies a place on my shelf. It's my opinion that she had just as much to do with what happened as he did.
But, this is just my opinion. I hate to see anyone die like she did. I believe she is/was a Christian, so whether I like her or not I'd better just get over it all. |
pelfdaddy
Intermediate Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 355
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 166.214.128.120
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:14 am: |
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Tammy Faye's eyelashes are a legendary staple of Southern Gospel culture. They are American classics for which no single English word provides adequate description, and I therefore call for a fresh coinage. I propose: "Tarantulary" |
tracy_pelfrey
Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 69.208.0.97
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:13 am: |
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to: Anewlife, and your post #25. Yeah, I remember the "directive" to round up.
When I think of how much we tithed...
...I mean, we were diligent...
...most of us were...
...if someone invited our family over for fellowship...we tithed on it.
...gifts in the mail or a check from family...we tithed on it.
...if we were given free bread from the Fellowhip Hall...such as in certain cases when our whole family was very ill...we were GIVEN...free bread...free, stale bread, from the Fellowship Hall...
... we tithed on it!!!!!
Our Zeal For Christ was Used Against Us In the Most Doctrinally Despicable Ways!!!
There is no healthy balance in NTCC. They push and push and push the giving...yet, they give not...to their own programs, such as Children's Church. They don't give a penny.
They give not to the poor among us (in society)...which the disciples of the Lord seemed to have reminded each other to remember. (or so it seems from the content of their letters).
Can you just picture Davis encouraging the men who leave his Bible school...to go and "preach" the Gospel...and to also...remember the poor???
He can't even remember the poor within his own organization. They have to turn elsewhere for help...because he has drained them of their life's portion...their money.
He has turned the zeal of young men and women against them...by threatening "Hell as their home" if they do not tithe and give in offerings. And, if he needs more cash...then...he just drums up more business with some extra services. There is nothing new in these extra services. Same-old, same-old...as far as the preaching goes... |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 799
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 1:14 pm: |
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I remember cringing at Christamas when we had a lot of gifts because I couldn't really afford the tithe on the gifts from family, sometimes around a thousand dollars worth, causing me to have to fork over a hundred bucks I did not have after spending more than I should have on gifts for my kids.
How ridiculous and insane is this? |
anewlife
Junior Member
Username: anewlife
Post Number: 29
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 75.179.177.102
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:25 pm: |
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Everytime we had money troubles, we always wondered if it had something to do with our miscaculating our tithe. It was scary for us. We always feared God's wrath on our finances. That would make anybody's blood pressure soar. |
anewlife
Junior Member
Username: anewlife
Post Number: 30
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 75.179.177.102
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:26 pm: |
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That is not a healthy christian environment folks! |
polaris
New member
Username: polaris
Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.74
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:58 pm: |
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amen. |
pelfdaddy
Advanced Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 166.214.11.135
| | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 1:49 am: |
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* |
granite
Intermediate Member
Username: granite
Post Number: 234
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 72.24.207.240
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
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It's quite odd that divorce and remarriage exists in ministries which use tithe income... tithe which formerly went to the Levite, who could not marry a divorced woman!
Lev. 21:14, "A divorced woman... shall he not take."
Ezek. 44:22, "Neither shall (the Levites) take for their wives... her that is put away."
Num. 18:21, "And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel..." |