Billy Graham

Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Billy Graham is a liar and a crook gate007 18  1  1-08-08  3:53 am   Start New Thread

Author Message   Anonymous (216.119.132.36) Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 1:03 pm:        Does anyone have information about this artical. Is it true? Billy Graham’s Attitude to Sodomy Billy Graham is reported as saying in December 1994 on the Larry King television show in the U.S.A., that sodomites are born sodomites, since, as he put it, it is in their genes (Calvary Contender, vol. XII, No. 3). Such a statement is heretical and must prove comforting and encouraging to the evil cause of the sodomites.   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 4:08 pm:        A quick search of the Internet turns up a lot of statements like this: "On the 12/22/94 Larry King Live Show, Graham also said that he believed that homosexuals are born with a tendency toward homosexuality; i.e., in the genes." So it appears to be true, although I cannot find a source that does anything other than reference a paraphrased version of his (reported) comment. Since we are all born with a tendency towards sin, it may well be that homosexuals are born with a greater tendency towards homosexuality. In my opinion, the real question lies in what they do with it, and also with the Son of God.   Anonymous (199.239.212.192) Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 10:21 pm:        Yeah, I mean it hardly seems fair to be born that way and then have to fight your entire life to be change the way you were born BUT, on the other hand......its the same as alcoholics, I believe most of them if not all are born w/ that craving because it's in their genes, because at least one of their parents were alcoholics when they were concieved. And, then they too have to struggle everyday, it doesnt give them the "right" to become an alcoholic.   Anonymous (205.188.117.20) Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 10:24 pm:        sin is passed on genetically through the father's blood line   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 12:20 am:        Yes, it would appear that "original" sin or the fallen nature of man is passed on to subsequent generations in that way. This would explain why Jesus was sinless, though Mary was not, because He was conceived in her of the Holy Spirit, not of Joseph. And we all have sins we struggle against. For some, it is sexual sin; for others, it might be alcoholism or overeating. Some of these we may be born with a tendency towards - science is not yet quite advanced enough to tell us - but it doesn't mean we have the right to engage in them. In fact, the problems start when we stop fighting them. We gain strength from resisting sin, and God's strength is made perfect in our weakness.   Paul Howey (67.175.30.151) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 12:52 am:        Not that I agree with a whole lot that Dobson teaches, BUT he explains it the best that I have EVER heard. He said that Homosexuals can not reproduce so they do not pass on their genes. So it is impossible for this tendency to be genetic. I think that's irrefutable. So I would think that leaves us with this tendency being obviously an acquired behavior by choice and through entertaining rather than casting out bad thoughts, thoughts that likely were somewhat environmentally influenced. These thoughts unchecked gain momentum and form a belief system. Suddenly poof !...before you know it you incorrectly believe that you were born that way.   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 2:34 am:        Paul, I agree that "entertaining rather than casting out bad thoughts" is a major problem for the human race, in general (in fact, I dare say that many people don't even realize that they are having bad thoughts to begin with). But you also raise the matter of "behavior by choice" vs. "desires". I presume a homosexual engages in such behavior because he or she chooses to (or else cannot stop, i.e., sexual addiction). But where do such desires come from? Are some people born with them? To paraphrase Strom Thurmond (the first and last time I hope to do so), why does a man want to be with another man? I don't think we have the scientific answer to that question yet, but I believe the Biblical admonition that the human heart is so desperately wicked above all things that we cannot know it, and that this fallen nature is the root cause of our problems. Having such desires is one thing; choosing to act on them is another. The same can be said of many things proscribed in the moral laws of God. For example, is alcoholism a disease, a weakness, a genetic flaw, or a sin? It may very well be all of these things. If there were a recessive gene in humanity that accounted for a predisposition to alcoholism, or homosexuality, or a great many other things I might mention, it would explain a great deal. From a scientific point of view, I think we have some ways to go before we understand where these behaviors come from. But God's Word is pretty clear as to what is sinful behavior, even if we do not always understand the "why".   Anonymous (205.188.117.20) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 6:10 am:        Some homosexuals marry and have children, before giving in to their desires which they tried to fight. Some are bisexual. Or their ancestors could have had homosexual tendencies but fought it and married, because it was so much more taboo back then. So homosexuals do sometimes reproduce.   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 11:29 am:        i always wondered .Does Billy Graham have a home church or at least attend one ???   Anonymous (199.141.125.33) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 3:50 pm:        I have a problem with Billy Graham's statement, if he really said that. I agree that homosexuality is somewhat by choice in that we all choose to sin. But I believe that the environment in which we are raised has something to do with the type of sin to which we are most tempted or vulnerable. Deciding upon accepting Christ and receiving the power of the Holy Spirit is our only hope to deliver us from sin. I sincerely believe that the roles in the husband/wife relationship have an influence on the children of the marriage, especially in an environment of weak fathers and fierce mothers, effecting the childs masculine/feminine identity. And childhood sexual abuse also has a very traumatic influence on how the child develops sexually. I would expect that God has a special grace for any victim of sexual abuse. They have a bigger problem with trust, especially in the case of incest.   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 4:29 pm:        some people are bound by "spirits" spirit of whoredoms perverse spirits deaf and dumb spirits foul spirits spirit of fear spirit of bondage spirit of infirmity spirit of antichrist spirit of error   Anonymous (69.138.217.241) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 5:39 pm:        M, you forgot religious spirits like yours.   Anonymous (216.119.134.149) Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 6:53 pm:        As you know the Shakers did not believe in sexual relations even between Husband and Wife. As you know they are now extinct Wonder why?   Paul Howey (67.175.30.151) Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 10:01 pm:        Dear Anon 198, Thank you for your comments and you are certainly right that we have a lot more to learn. Paul   Paul Howey (67.175.30.151) Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 10:42 pm:        Dear Anon 205, You bring up some excellent and logical points. But I think all that Dobson was saying was that the homosexual union itself (strictly between two homosexuals) does not reproduce genetically. Therefore they as a PAIR, do not pass on their genes. Also, if this lifestyle was practiced by all, and no more children were produced, such as through artifical insemination as some gay women do, the enitre human race would be destroyed in about 100 years. I really think it's a matter of choice influenced in part by environment and certainly influenced by the spirit of this age, as M seemed to be pointing out in the above post. Paul   Anonymous (152.163.253.102) Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 10:57 pm:        God would not condemn people for this sin if people had no choice. In Romans 1, it speaks of homosexuals who God gives over to a reprobate mind, and it says that when they knew God they did not glorify Him as God. So they choose to turn their backs on God and they choose their sin. I do agree that environment, upbringing, and genetics can predispose a person to this sin. But God says He will not give us any temptation more than we can bear, but will provide a way of escape. So ultimately, as with any sin, people make a choice.   Anonymous (204.156.7.47) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 7:49 am:        Does that mean that plastic surgery just for the sake of vanity is the same sin as homosexuality? Like if you change how God created you but were so heavily influenced by the "world" and had a predisposition for self loathing. Sort of on that line. Would that fit in the same catagory?   Anonymous (152.163.253.102) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 9:47 am:        That is not the same thing at all, that is ridiculous. You are really stretching things with that one. Plastic surgery is not a sin any more than dying your hair is!   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 11:47 pm:        "God would not condemn people for this sin if people had no choice." "So ultimately, as with any sin, people make a choice." I agree one hundred percent. But for reasons which are still unclear, different people are tempted in widely different areas. Alcohol is one of the most obvious examples. In general, any human "appetite" seems to be ripe for temptation - and I think most of us could name the specific area in which we struggle most. It's all in what we do with the temptation. I don't recall the originator of this quote, but it's quite true: You can't necessarily stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can certainly stop them from building a nest in your hair.   Anonymous (216.119.129.21) Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:59 pm:        Some of the New Bibles completely eliminates the term "sodomite" from the Bible. The word appears five times in the KJV (De 23:17, I Ki 14:24, I Ki 15:12, I Ki 22:46, and II Ki 23:7). They replace it with the phrase "male shrine prostitute."They also remove the word effeminate from 1 Cor. 6:9 and the words Natural Affection from 2 Timothy 3:3   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 11:04 pm:        yeah be careful of them new age bible per-versions they are trying to pervert the gospel   R (216.119.139.215) Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 4:12 pm:        Quotes and Beliefs of Dr. Billy Graham In our first installment, we'll be looking at some of the teachings, opinions and quotes of Dr. Billy Graham, evangelist extraordinaire and member of the Southern Baptist Convention. For years, Dr. Billy Graham has been probably the most popular Protestant personality in the world. In the below expose, taken from many documented magazines, television programs, interviews, etc., Graham has many interesting things to say about many different subjects. One has to conclude, from his own words, that Dr. Billy Graham holds many views and beliefs that are not a part of fundamental Christianity as taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. So, let's start our study. SALVATION THROUGH JESUS CHRIST Billy Says: "I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell. I no longer believe that. I believe that there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance." (Billy Graham, McCall Magazine Jan. 1987). "I respect other paths to God," (Billy Graham, Parade Magazine, Oct 20th 1996) Jesus Says: John 14:6-7...Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." CREATION & EVOLUTION Billy Says: "How you believe doesn't affect the doctrine. Either at a certain moment in evolution God breathed into one particular ape-man who was Adam, or God could have taken a handful of dust and blowed and created a man just like that" (Billy Graham, 'United Church Observer' 'Sunday Magazine' June 1966). God Says: Genesis 1:26-27...Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 2:7... The LORD God formed the man from the dustof the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. HOMOSEXUALITY Billy Says: “I find it is emotional, with strong arguments on both sides of the issue. I intend to stay out of national and local politics while here. God loves all people whatever their ethnic or political background or their social orientation. ... I never speak against other groups" (Billy Graham regarding his position on homosexuals, 22 September 1992 The Statesman Journal) “sodomites are born sodomites, it is in their genes” (Billy Graham, December 1994 on the Larry King Live). God's Word Says: I Corinthians 6:9-11...Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Romans 1:27.. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. QUOTES ON THE POPE Billy Says: “John Paul II is almost an evangelist because he calls to people to turn to Christ, to turn to Christianity" (The Star, June 26, 1979, reprinted in the Australian Beacon, August 1979, p. 1). "The pope came as a statesman and a pastor, but I believe he also sees himself coming as an evangelist... The pope sought to speak to the spiritual hunger of our age in the same way Christians throughout the centuries have spoken to the spiritual yearnings of every age--by pointing people to Christ." (Billy Graham, in an interview with The Saturday Evening Post Jan-Feb. 1980) "We had a spiritual time" (Graham visiting with the Pope in 1981, Christianity Today, Feb. 6, 1981, p. 88). “John Paul II is the moral leader of the world" (Billy Graham, Religious News Service, Sept. 27, 1979). "The Pope is a bridge builder…Pope John Paul II has emerged as the greatest religious leader of the modern world, and one of the greatest moral and spiritual leaders of the century" (Billy Graham Saturday Evening Post, Jan.-Feb. 1980). A Word from Pastor Paul Separk ,Jr. The kind words that Dr. Billy Graham has for the Pope are quite suspicious. He makes the Pope sound like a regular ol' southern "pastor" or "evangelist." In future articles in this APOLOGETICS forum, I'll discuss the beliefs and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, but for the topic at hand, it will be enough to say that the Roman Catholic Church says the Pope is practically Jesus Christ on earth holding the keys of heaven and hell and deciding who gets out of the mythical place called purgatory. The Pope also boasts the power to hear confessions and forgive sins. In addition, the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church support praying to Mary (in the false Roman Catholic Doctrine, Mary is co-equal with Jesus and a mediator as the "Mother of God") and dead saints, Celebacy of the priesthood ( a "priest" is a mediator. There is only ONE priest JESUS CHRIST), repetitious prayer (the rosary) and many other unbiblical teachings. CONVERTING CATHOLICS AND JEWS Billy & Company Says: "Anyone who makes a decision at our meetings is seen later and referred to a local clergyman, Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish." (Billy Graham, Sept. 21, 1957, in an interview with the San Francisco News). "Names of Catholics who had made decisions for Christ were provided at that meeting by Rick Marshall of the Graham organization." (Sept. 2, 1983, The Florida Catholic) "If Catholic step forward there will be no attempt to convert them and their names will be given to the Catholic church nearest their homes" (David Cline of Bringhouse United Church Vancouver Sun, Oct. 5, 1984). A NOTE FROM PASTOR PAUL SEPARK, JR. It is unreal that a so called "evangelistic" crusade would not encourage a person to a belief in fundamental Christianity but, if they were of a token Catholic or Jewish background, would send them to a Catholic church or Jewish synagogue. Jesus is universal and it is impossible for anyone to be saved through any other system except Jesus Christ. MORE ON THE POPE AND CATHOLIC CHURCH Billy Says: "The gospel that built this school [Roman Catholicism] and the gospel that brings me here tonight is still the way of salvation." "The gospel that built this school and the gospel that brings me here tonight is still the way of salvation." (Billy Graham, The Gastonian Gazette of November 22, 1967 addressing Belmont Abbey’s Roman Catholic college) 1966: "I find myself closer to Catholics than the radical Protestants. I think the Roman Catholic Church today is going through a second Reformation" (Evening Bulletin, Philadelphia, May 24, 1966). "We have received wondrous support from the Catholic Church" (Billy Graham, Christianity Today, Dec. 30, 1977 sermon in Manila, Philippines). "I found that my beliefs are essentially the same as those of orthodox Catholics we only differ on some matters of later church tradition. I find that my beliefs are essentially the same as those of orthodox Roman Catholics" (McCall's, Jan. 1978). "There was a pause in the conversation, suddenly the Pope's arm shot out and he grabbed the lapels of my coat, he pulled me forward within inches of his own face. He fixed his eye on me and said, `Listen, Graham, we are brothers.'" We are brothers! Graham said that was a great happening in his life, when the Pope took him by the lapels, pulled him into his cheek and said, "We are brothers." (Billy Graham, The Today newspaper, June 8, 1989) "This past week I preached in the great Catholic Cathedral a funeral sermon for a close friend of mine who was a Catholic, and they had several Bishops and Archbishops to participate, and as I sat there going through the funeral Mass that was a very beautiful thing, and certainly straight and clear in the gospel. There was a wonderful little priest that would tell me when to stand and when to kneel and what to do." (Billy Graham, kneeling before the Mass wafer in Milwaukee October 21, 1973) A NOTE FROM PASTOR PAUL SEPARK, JR. There isn't much I can add other than it is quite apparent that Billy Graham has quite a bit in common with the Roman Catholic Church. I guess it is pretty fair to say that Graham is a closet Catholic and certainly a major Catholic apologist pushing for the unity of the Protestantism and Catholicism. ***For the sake of time, I am going to let the rest of the quotes from Dr. Billy Graham speak for themselves. Needless to say, any novice Bible student to counter any of the erroneous statements that Graham has put forth below.*** INFANT BAPTISM Billy Says: "I have some difficulty in accepting the indiscriminate baptism of infants without a careful regard as to whether the parents have any intention of fulfilling the promise they make. But I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian Truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the miracles of God, but I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that’s all right with me" (Graham, interview with Wilfred Bockelman, associate editor of the Lutheran Standard, American Lutheran Church, Lutheran Standard, October 10, 1961). God's Word Says: Acts 12:13...Simon himself believed and was baptized. HELL Billy Says: "I know that God has a fire which burns but does not consume; one example is the fire of the burning bush which Moses saw. I know also, however, that in many places throughout the Bible, the term 'fire' is used figuratively to connote great punishment or suffering. The Bible speaks of fire set by the tongue" (Billy Graham being questioned regarding a literal fire of hell, News and Record, Greensboro, North Carolina, March 15, 1999). ON RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES Billy Says: "Dear Philip: Your gracious and generous invitation to speak twice in Vancouver was deeply appreciated. ... I have tried to juggle my schedule but it is just too heavy at this late date for me to make the drastic changes that would be necessary for me to be in Vancouver. This will be only the second general assembly of the WCC that I have had to miss. I will certainly miss seeing you and many other old friends and fellowshipping with those from all over the world..." (telegram sent in 1983 by Graham to Philip Potter, General Secretary of the World Council of Churches Foundation, Vol. IV, Issue IV, Los Osos,Calif.: Fundamental Evangelistic Association, 1983). 'I have nothing but the warmest of relations with the World Council of Churches'. (Billy Graham, 1974, Lausanne Congress). A QUOTE FROM THE "GOOD OL' DAYS" Billy Says: “The three greatest menaces faced by orthodox Christianity are Communism, Roman Catholicism and Mohamedanism (Islam)'. (Graham, 1948 from Plains Baptist Challenger, July 1977) COMMUNISM & THE TEN COMMANDMENTS Billy Says: “I think communism's appeal to youth is its structure and promise of a future utopia. Mao Tse-Tung's eight precepts are basically the same as the Ten Commandments. In fact if we can't have the Ten Commandments read in the schools I'll settle for Mao's precepts'” (Billy Graham, May 28th 1978 in the Japanese newspaper 'Mainichi Daily News' from Plains Baptist Challenger, July 1977). THE VIRGIN BIRTH Q. Do you think a literal belief in the Virgin birth--not just as a symbol of the incarnation or of Christ's divinity--as an historic event is necessary for personal salvation? A. While I most certainly believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, I do not find anywhere in the New Testament that this particular belief is necessary for personal salvation ("Billy Graham Answers 26 Provocative Questions," United Church of Observer, July 1, 1966). BIBLICAL INFALLIBILITY Billy Says: “I believe the Bible is the inspired, authoritative word of God but I don’t use the word ‘inerrant’ because it’s become a brittle divisive word.” (Billy Graham, Newsweek magazine, April 26, 1982, in a debate on the issue of biblical infallibility.) Jesus Says: II Timothy 3:16-17...All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. II Peter 1:20-21... Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. "World travel and getting to know clergy of all denominations has helped mold me into an ecumenical being. We’re separated by theology and, in some instances, culture and race, but all that means nothing to me any more" (Billy Graham, U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 19, 1988). "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets" (Luke 6:26). Billy Graham is probably one of the world's most popular and admired men - along with his friend Pope John Paul II, but the true prophets of old were never popular. This is a word for word transcript from a 1997 TV broadcast of Hour of Power. In the interview, Graham told Schuller: In this interview, which I have on video tape as well, the following is said: Graham: "I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ. . . . [God] is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven. Schuller: "What, what I hear you saying, that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they have been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?" Graham: "Yes, it is." Schuller: "I'm so thrilled to hear you say this: 'There's a wideness in God's mercy'," and Graham: "There is. There definitely is" --"BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES." Mt. 7:15 --"BEHOLD, I AM SENDING YOU FORTH AS LAMBS AMONG WOLVES." Lk. 10:3 Graham Has Changed His Beliefs in the Last 25 Years   Anonymous (205.188.117.20) Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 5:29 pm:        TO R, I am shocked to read what you have written about Billy Graham. I was saved through a Billy Graham crusade on TV. I never knew these things about his beliefs. In his crusade messages he seems to preach the true gospel. I know that God can use someone to bring people to Christ even if their beliefs and teachings are not perfect. But some of what he is quoted as saying here is just plain heresy. He is probably trying to be all things to all men, but he certainly seems to be compromising truth to do it.   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 7:50 pm:        i'm shocked too 205,..the fallaway rate .one of the guys that led me to Christ ,today doenst follow the Lord anymore it really makes me sad the guy had great potential and then lost his zeal ..   Sharon (142.177.108.142) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 2:38 pm:        Yes Billy Graham evolved, and when he found his beliefs to be wrong he changed them. That is the true measure of a man. I must say that l have not read that he has said such things but then I haven't read everything. So you think that being homosexual is a choice. Well imagine if you were offered a million dollars, could you become one, if a learned man talked to you for days could you become one, if a gun was pointed to your head and you committted the act would you then become one. You see its easy to say you could never so such a thing because you actually could not. It is not a choice it is a fact. The fact that there are gay dogs and cats is a hint, think God or the Devil is after them. Overpopulation raises the amount of homosexuals in all the animal kingdom. Here is something you may like. . When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I havea defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.   Just Wondering (64.255.96.72) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 3:08 pm:        I think I'm finally starting to understand...Those of you on this forum busily pointing fingers are truly the only ones following the true gospel. Anyone who is not absolutely perfect in all things and all understanding is disqualified and, quite possibly, going to hell. So tell me, how may people have YOU led to the Lord?   Anonymous (205.188.117.20) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 4:12 pm:        Homosexuality is a sin that people go to hell for. Period. It clearly states that in Romans 1. Unless we are going to pick and choose which parts of the bible we believe. It has been stated earlier that because of the fall, certain people have tendencies toward certain sins, such as alcoholism or drug abuse, or sexual sins. But they have a choice whether to give themselves over to them or not. Homosexuality is like any other sin, it must be repented of. When a person becomes a Christian he can no longer say that he is gay. Some have, and we even have gay ministers and gay churches! That is a lie against the truth, they are going to hell, no matter how harsh that sounds, it is what God's Word says. So either God is telling the truth or He is a liar. I wouldn't bank my eternal destiny on the hope that He would wink at this sin. He clearly states He will not.   R (216.119.134.135) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 6:31 pm:        2 Corinthians 11: 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. This is the End Time.   Just Wondering (65.231.183.115) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 7:29 pm:        So tell me, how may people have YOU led to the Lord?   Anonymous (69.208.212.198) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 7:49 pm:        Regarding Mexican and Canadian slaves. I see no problem with owning Canadian slaves as long as the Bible says it is ok. Most Canadians that I have met are a pain anyway. So go ahead and get a couple of Mexicans and a couple of Canadians and let us know which ones work out better.   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 1:34 am:        Wow, this thread has gone downhill fast. Billy Graham has probably led more people to Jesus Christ than anyone else of his generation. This does not mean that I agree with everything he says, only that I respect his life's work of evangelism. Putting aside the Old Testament for a moment, the New Testament clearly speaks out against homosexuality as sinful - along with a lot of other things. We are all sinners. Let us not lose sight of that. And there IS a wideness to God's mercy. I will not argue apologetics here, but have you not read in the Scriptures that mercy triumphs over judgment? I pray that all would find the mercy and love of God as He gives them the light to find Him.   Sharon (142.177.112.195) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 6:16 am:        You are right, there are many here sitting in judgement, I thought my pointing out that all are sinners and the sin of homosexuality is no worst than the sin of wearing a cotton blend. But they leaped right over their sin to point out others. I hope God doesn't punish all the gay animals too. I think that the most important thing that God put in the bible other than love was the punishment for those who put things in and took things out. I wonder who would want to do a thing like that? So where is all this finger pointing coming from. People do not know God or the Devil is my guess. If the devil was not in the bible God would have told us so, instead he tells us the punishment for the changing of his words. Since he wants us to know his word we should know it when we hear it, the God of Love does not stone people nor banish them because they are not perfect. So those who think they are and know the fate of others are damning themselves by their not knowing Gods words. That is why he had to send Christ to straighten out the mess that was made down here. He is the example to follow. Billy Graham did, and just because he does not point his finger at homosexuals just means that he has grown up and seen that God loves all his creations, even his gay animals. It is man who does not love them, and again damning themselves. Satan loves all the hatred that the gays cause. All the fingerpointing, yup, thats not really the way to get into heaven. It is no wonder that 11 thousand to 1 odd are placed upom us. Not good odds are they? Billy saved Millions , how many have you saved?   Sharon (142.177.112.195) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 6:26 am:        Anon 69... You do not want to own Canadian slaves, we do not work well under pressure. Plus Canadian while a pain we only like it here in the frozen north do not want you to come here for it is much to cold for you. Plus we already have your slaves from the last time you thought that having slaves was a good idea. How did that work for you? Not good ah? No if I was you I would just leave us Canadians here in the north. Brrr it sure is cold, you had better just stay where you are, we will send you all our racists if you want and maybe some politians and Karla Hulmoka, actually we will trade her for Lorna Bobbit. How is that.   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 9:22 am:        Billy saved Millions ?? I thought God does the saving ...oh maybe he saved millions of donations for his ONCE A YEAR crusades..thats ONCE A YEAR ...what do they do the rest of the year   Just Wondering (64.255.96.72) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 9:31 am:        M So tell me, how may people have YOU led to the Lord? Jesus said that those who are not against us are for us. Billy Graham is not perfect but he has done the work of an evangelist. There will be many more souls in heaven because of his dedication to preaching the gospel. Now, maybe God would have used someone else if Graham didn't answer the call, but then again, maybe not. If you believe everything you read on the internet (which I do not) and you think he is in error then get down on your knees and pray for him.   Sharon (142.177.98.191) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 10:17 am:        M... Did you not read the other posts here, right above you is someone who was saved through a crusade of Billys. I know that he has done more than most and gave his life to it and his children follow him. His son Franklyn is having a crusade right here in the place where I live. My neighbor is taking the course that they give for 5 weeks on how to minister to those who are saved during the crusade, and it is free. Did you see the car Billy drives, the house he lives in, he is not a rich man even after all these years of working for the Lord. Go and check these things out for yourself, do not count on others. Remember it is not what goes into your mouth that defiles you but what comes out of your mouth. God loves Billy so name calling is probably not a good thing especially if one is bearing false witness and pointing fingers. You should take the example of Just Wondering and if you think someone is fallen and pray for them, God would like that more than belittleing them. Also God loves gay people, they to belong to him, those who think that gay people are not saved are probably the ones God ment when he said the first last and the last first. If they are wearing a piece of cotton blend clothing then they too are going to hell, for they will be judged by the way they judge others. The same laws apply. You can not use one law and not another. Hope they do not get a hair cut for God expressed that to was a sin. See how that works. Now you know why only one in a 11 thousand is left standing, the path is very narrow. And that is not just your average joes falling it is Christians for you can not fall if you have not been risen up.   Anonymous (66.162.203.195) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 4:40 pm:        You all are so dang funny. Surely you have better things to do with your time than fight the "sodomites". Do you agree that there are other sins that a Christian must fight against? Obesity? Divorce? Gossip? Lying? Why just constantly pick on homosexuals? You act as if there are degrees of sin. Homosexuality is just the "sin of the day" for most fundamentalist Christians. Good Lord, homosexuals could care less about keeping you from worshipping your God. Muslims...now that is a different story. My feeling is that while the fundamentalist Christian world fights against homosexuals, the Muslim community is doing more damage to our nation and our world that gay folks will ever do. Folks are trying to reach gay people for Jesus and your hatefilled speech puts barriers up for that evangelism. Know what you are saying, be prudent and stop just hating to hate.   R (216.119.139.250) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 5:31 pm:        Dr. Graham has preached many great Sermons, however he also preaches that once you are saved you are always saved and have life long Fire Insurance. This message says we can commit any Sin and we are OK. I would ask that if we die in a Sin would we still get to be in Heaven. The Bible says no! Put your faith in no Man but only in the Lord Jesus Christ and his Holy Word.   Anonymous (64.12.117.20) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 7:27 pm:        Hello R! Once you are saved, you are born again into God's family. You are regenerated and made a new creature. You are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. Once you are born again, you can't be unborn. You can't be a new creature and then be dead again in sin! The Holy Spirit does not seal you and then unseal you! God is not impotent. What He does He does FOREVER. No one can snatch you out of His hand. Of all that come to Him, He loses NOTHING. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. Do you really think that salvation can be lost by us when we did nothing to deserve it or gain it in the first place? Salvation is of God, and He is not a schizophrenic. The sins were paid for at the cross, past, present and future sins! Yes, even ones you die committing, if you are truly a born again believer! IT IS FINISHED! Read your bible. Once you are saved you can not be lost again! Eternal life is ETERNAL!!!   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 7:39 pm:        read Hebrews 6:4-8   Anonymous (64.12.117.20) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 8:24 pm:        Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." In the NT, tasting refers to consciously experiencing something momentarily or continually. All people experience the goodness of God, but that does not mean they are all saved (see Matt 5:45). Many Jews experienced Jesus' blessings when He healed them, delivered them from demons, and miraculously fed them. But having an experience with Christ is not eqivalent to salvation. The phrase "once enlightened" is often taken to refer to Christians. The accompanying warning, then, is taken to indicate the danger of losing their salvation if they "fall away" and "crucify again for themselves the Son of God". But the immediate context has no mention of their being saved. They are not described with any terms that apply only to believers (such as holy, born again, righteous, or saints). The interpretive problem arises from inaccurately identifying the spiritual condition of the ones being addressed. In this case, they were unbelievers who had been exposed to God's redemptive truth and, perhaps, had made a profession of faith but had not exercised genuine saving faith. Another passage(10:26) addresses the same issue. The subject here is people who come in contact with the gospel but are spiritually unchanged by it. Apostate Christians are Christians in name only, not genuine believers who are often incorrectly thought to lose their salvation because of their sins. There is no possibility of these verses referring to someone losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (see, for example, John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35,38,39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4,5). Those who want to make this passage mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also make the point that one could never get it back again.   Sharon (142.177.82.194) Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 8:06 am:        Right on Anon 64, I am a born again, and the truth is that I know now of my Fathers love for me, the knowledge of that is Impossible to take from me. You could put me on the rack and even if i said I do not believe I still would because it is impossible for man to take away what God has given. Do I believe that I could sin, oh yes I could and have on many occasions, does my Father not love me because I sinned, do you not love your child when they misbehave, is your love dependant on good behaviour. What kind of love would that be, I would not love a God that did not have the capacity to love me at least as much as I love my own children. My Fathers love does not depend on me being perfect, thank God, for none of us would be saved if that was the case. I have a friend whom God spoke to and she did not do what God told her to do and she was not saved. Not because she did not do what God had told her but because God did not think it time for her to be saved. He choses the time and place and we chose how to accept it. Me I dance around saying THank You Thank You for a few hours .   R (216.119.144.95) Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 5:33 pm:        God help anyone who thinks they know the Mind of God. Just because we say the words and even recieve Jesus in our hearts and do not change our ways we will not recieve Heaven. 1 Peter 1:16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:   R (216.119.144.95) Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 5:55 pm:        Hi Sharon, You are correct about thanking God for a few more hours. March this year Satin tried to kill me before my time. Jesus sais NO it is not his Time I have more for him to do. I died three times when my Heart stopped beating, I did have a experience while I was Dead. I have not completed writting my Message. As reguard to sin, 1 John 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:24 pm:        thou believest there is a God thou doest well ?the devils also believe and tremble   Sharon (142.177.110.222) Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 8:14 am:        Hi R...Yes satan is very busy right now, he is desperate, and desperation makes him even more dangerous. He never goes after what he already owns so you must be his enemy. I would love to hear you experience while you were dead. Can not wait for your message. I have been born again for 25 years and am stilling learning things every day. Keep writing your message, for dead men do tell tales and there is often a message in those. Or dead women. I liked Anon69s message, i never thought about devils trembling and I enjoy that thought, give me much delight. Thank u Anon   R (216.119.134.153) Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 3:54 pm:        Yes Sharon Aron69 is correct it is written in James 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?   lester (68.119.37.147) Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 5:12 pm:        I HAD A HEART ATTACK WITH FIVE BY PASSES IN 2002. I WENT INTO A DEATH LIKE SLEEP OR SOMETHING. I HEARD the devil SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DIE... THEN GOD SENT AN ANGEL WHO TOLD ME I WAS NOT GOING TO DIE BUT LIVE THANK AND PRAISE THE LORD I AM ALIVE   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 6:51 pm:        AWESOME testimony Lester, thanks for sharing it i recently went to the hospital for something and i believe that God gave me mercy and i didnt deserve it but the Lords mercies are new everyday .thanks be UNTO GOD who always causes us to triumph in Christ Jesus .   Anonymous (198.81.26.106) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 12:00 am:        "You all are so dang funny. Surely you have better things to do with your time than fight the 'sodomites'. Do you agree that there are other sins that a Christian must fight against? Obesity? Divorce? Gossip? Lying? Why just constantly pick on homosexuals? You act as if there are degrees of sin." Well, there ARE degrees of sin. The NT makes it clear that punishment for sin will vary in degree depending on the offense, and also on the spiritual knowledge of the person committing the sin (i.e., did they know it was sin? Did they sin willfully? Did they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and reject it?) But I have to agree with this poster on one point - there are plenty of other sins mentioned in both the NT and OT, and to dwell on the sin of homosexuality while being guilty of other sins ourselves is to be hypocritical. Let us remove the "beam" from our own eye before we attempt to remove the "speck" from someone else's. In other words, let us judge ourselves and our own actions first.   Anonymous (152.163.101.13) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 12:11 am:        Homosexuality is unique in that it is a sin in which God gives people who practice it over to a reprobate mind. See Romans 1. It takes over the very being of who a person is. It is not just something they do, it becomes who they are. And they that do it will NOT inherit the Kingdom of heaven. It is not a sin that you can easily stop doing since it is your whole identity   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 10:29 am:        there are NO degrees of sin ....GOD hates all sin .. God is angry with the wicked everyday ...all unrighteousness is sin..whatsover is not of faith is sin... the soul that sinneth shall die ...wages of sin death...know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven... them that sin rebuke before all that others may fear.. REPENT !   Sharon (142.177.78.207) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 2:29 pm:        Anon198 I think if you look you are the last one to talk about homosexuals. I do not know why you bring it up again but most here defended them anyway. I did not think we were all so dang funny but if you say so, but must you say everything twice, we heard it the first time and I guess you needed to hear it again. Anon, calling canadians a pain is not very Christ like, I am sure he would not say most americans are a pain, or maybe he would. I shall have to ask him.   Anonymous (198.81.26.73) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 4:01 pm:        Sharon, the comments you attribute to me were made earlier by an "anon 66." I put them in quotation marks because I was responding to those commments, not making them myself. Please read the earlier post. Also, to the poster above, I agree with REPENT!, but the NT makes it clear that there are degrees of sin, or at least degrees of punishment for different sins. Jesus said it would be "more tolerable" for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for any city that refused to hear the message preached by His apostles (Matthew 10:14-15) Even we, in our limited human wisdom, can see that the murder of millions of people (as in the actions of Hitler) is a more grievous sin than a minor offense. But make no mistake, sin is sin, and even the smallest of these will keep us from heaven, unless we accept the price Jesus paid for us on the cross.   Sharon (142.177.109.100) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 5:22 pm:        Anon 198... Thanks for the reply, that is one of the reasons i am on a fan of Anon and not just because that is the name of the horned god. I am glad you said something as I did not find it made much sense. I hope it gave you a chuckle, and thanks again.   Sharon (142.177.109.100) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 5:35 pm:        Anon 198 ... I just read what I wrote and I guess I gave myself a laugh, I am not really on a fan of Anon. I do not know any of his fans, if he has any.   R (216.119.134.147) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 6:00 pm:        Reply to once saved-always saved. (Backsliding)Read 2 Peter 2:15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.   R (216.119.134.119) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 6:42 pm:        Re: Backsliding. Jeremiah 3: 22Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God. 23Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel. Jesus says to keep His Fathers Commandments. We believe in One God and his Name is Jesus. Revelation 12: 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.   Sharon (142.177.7.186) Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 6:38 am:        R... not many have to worry about that then because in this day there are very few who do not bear false witness. It is the forgotten Commandment.   R (216.119.134.151) Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 2:27 pm:        This young man said he believed but did not obey! > > > > I had on new clothes, > > > > New sneakers on my feet. > > > > I was there for class on time, > > > > Went to the back and took my seat. > > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm moving up, > > > > I'm already grown. > > > > Soon I'll be graduating, > > > > And out on my own. > > > > > > > > I talked to some of my friends, > > > > We were all having fun. > > > > Said some things I shouldn't have said. Did stuff I shouldn't have > > > done. > > > > > > > > I knew I was different. > > > > I felt God touch my heart, > > > > I knew I should set a standard, > > > > But then I'd be set apart. > > > > > > > > Walking to the bus, I was not looking for strength. > > > > I heard the car tires screeching, > > > > But now it's too late. > > > > > > > > I'm standing in this room, > > > > And I can see the heavenly gate. > > > > Oh no! I never prayed. > > > > I thought I had time to get it straight! > > > > > > > > An angel walked to me, > > > > He had a book in his hand. > > > > I knew it was the Book of Life, When would this dream end? > > > > > > > > I told him my name, > > > > And he began to look. > > > > Then he looked at me sadly and said, > > > > Your name is not in this book. > > > > > > > > Angel, this is a dream, > > > > No, I can't be dead! > > > > He closed the book and turned away, > > > > He whispered - You cannot > > > > proceed ahead. > > > > > > > > No...no this can't be real, > > > > Angel, you can't turn me away. > > > > Let me talk to God, > > > > Maybe he'll let me stay. > > > > > > > > He led me to the gate, > > > > Jesus came to me. > > > > He did not let me in but said, > > > > Beloved what is your need? > > > > > > > > Jesus, I cried, please, > > > > Don't cast me away from you. > > > > Tears ran down his face as he said, > > > > You knew what you needed to do. > > > > > > > > Lord, please I'm young, > > > > I never thought I would die. > > > > I thought I'd have plenty of time, > > > > Death caught me by surprise. > > > > > > > > Lord, I went to church, > > > > Please Jesus, I believe. > > > > He said you would not accept me, > > > > My love you would not receive. > > > > Lord, there were too many > > > > hypocrites. They weren't being true. > > > > > > > > He took a step back and asked, > > > > What does that have to do with you? > > > > > > > > Lord, my family claimed to be > > > > saved, They weren't real. You know. > > > > > > > > He said, I died for you, > > > > Now I have to go. > > > > > > > > I fell to my knees crying to Him, > > > > Lord, I planned to be real tomorrow. > > > > > > > > I couldn't make Him understand, > > > > I had never felt such sorrow. > > > > > > > > Then it hit me hard, I said, > > > > Lord, where will I go? > > > > > > > > He looked into my eyes > > > > and said, My child you already > > > > know. > > > > > > > > Please Jesus, I begged, > > > > The place is so hot. > > > > It seemed to trouble and grieve him, > > > > He whispered, DEPART FROM ME, > > > > I KNOW YOU NOT. > > > > > > > > Lord, you're supposed to be love, > > > > How can you send me to > > > > damnation? > > > > > > > > He replied, With your mouth you said you loved me, But each day you > > > > rejected my salvation. > > > > > > > > With that in an instant, > > > > Day turned into night. > > > > I never knew such torture could be, Now too late, I know the Bible is > > > > right. > > > > > > > > If I can tell you anything, > > > > Hell has no age. > > > > > > > > It is a place of torture, > > > > Separated from God and full of rage. > > > > > > > > You know, I thought it was funny, a joke, But this one thing is true. > > > > > > > > If you never accept Jesus Christ, > > > > HELL IS WAITING FOR YOU! > > > > So please, ask Him into your heart. > > > > > > > > Please show this to everyone you care about. > > > > > > > > ((which should be everybody)) > > > > > > > > IF SOMEONE HAD A GUN HELD IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE, AND ASKED YOU IF YOU > > > > BELIEVED IN GOD, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? > > > > > > > > SAY NO AND FEEL ASHAMED THE REST OF YOUR LIFE? > > > > OR SAY YES, I DO, AND DIE > > > > STANDING UP FOR GOD? >   Sharon (142.177.10.79) Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 7:36 pm:        R... That was wonderful, it should be on every Christian site, especially now in these times. Thank you. People do not understand that there is no time to get it right. He is here for us now because we are the ones following his commandments, and have knowledge of Christ. He does not go after what he already has he goes after what he lost. God Bless You.   m (69.242.21.100) Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 11:13 pm:        most of the world will say they generaly believe in God but do they believe in JESUS the Lord ?   R (216.119.134.145) Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 2:25 pm:        Thank You Sharon!   R (216.119.134.145) Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 2:44 pm:        Dear M, You are correct their are many that say that they believe in Jesus however so does Satan James 2:19. Many of todays Preachers and these New Bibles are separating Jesus from Christ. Here are some of the versus: Please check and look in your New Bibles (Books) and see if the word Christ has been removed from the following Bible verses! Matthew 23:8, Luke 4:41, John 4:42, Acts 15:11, Romans 1:16, 1 Corinthians 5:4, Galatians 3:17, Philippians 4:13, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 2 Timothy 4:22, Hebrews 3:1, John 1:7, Revelation 12:17 also see Ephesians 3:14(Lord Jesus Christ) has been removed. This is the teaching and Satan's entrance into today's Churche's and the Hearts of Many. Jesus again Warns of these things. 1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.   Tiffer (81.156.165.182) Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:12 am:        Oh you are all so cute! It is wonderful to completely disagree with one post and completely agree with another. And Sharon - I think I love you (completely intellectual and platonic love you understand!) I am glad there are Christians like you out there. And R some of the things about Billy Graham there made me like him more   Sharon (142.177.106.176) Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 9:06 am:        Tiffer... Wow thanks, that was sure a bright spot in my day. I love you too, as Christians we are supposed to do that, but it is not often said, thanks.   R (216.119.144.95) Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 3:52 pm:        Hi Tiffer, You are correct according to God's Word we are to Love each other just as Jesus does and to Pray for each other. We do not have to judge, God's Word does that but we are required to Obey Him if we want to be with Him. We are told to read and search His written Word and Pray Daily. Exekiel 12:2Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house. 3Therefore, thou son of man, prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house. God Bless   Sharon (142.177.103.128) Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 3:12 pm:        R... When will you be finished your message, I wish to hear it. I know that you take your self very seriously as I do myself. Satan attacks because of fear, what is it that he fears from you? I hear your love in your words. When you are ready I would really like to hear your message. Jesus came to me, that is why I am who I am, God is powerful but Jesus is love. Hope you have not left this board yet.   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:03 am:        very true R, these new age bible per-versions are causing damage thats for sure, first it was the NIV now they got the MESSAGE bible and all kinds of false translations out there.my beef is that BG endorses just about any version ..   M (69.242.21.100) Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:06 am:        tolerance/acceptance=false love ...true love OBEYS God and speaks the truth in love ..people say God is love , but God is also a Holy God a Righteous God and a Just God..   TPFKASOF (66.26.203.193) Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:43 am:        Dear God, PLEASE save me from your followers~   Sharon (142.177.75.32) Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 8:37 am:        Tpfkasof.....Do the followers of God have such power over you that you must be saved from them. You must never allow anyone such power except God. Do you know him, is he your personal saviour. DO not be afraid of his followers, for his true followers have no power over you. They can not hurt you for they must act Christ like. Have you done something that is so bad that you fear Gods people. Hope not for then you are in real trouble. How are his followers attacking you?   Adam (24.150.174.250) Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 12:01 am:        Hi, I just discovered this site, and this is a response to something quite a ways back.. and I'm wondering if someone can help me with this. Sharon, many posts ago mentioned all kidnds of laws concerning sacrifices, etc. that we don't practice today, (mostly), and I'm pretty sure Jesus somewhere said that the festive laws concerning sacrifices and such things were now obselete... anyone know where this is?   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 11:30 am:        Galatians 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith fo Christ and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified before someone throws James 2 at me , James 2:17 even so FAITH if it has not works is dead being alone true faith will have evidence of works ..the works of good fruit in our life ,when reading the whole chapter of James 2 you will see that those that had faith was evidenced by Christian character not rituals or sacraments etc..   Anonymous (64.12.113.186) Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 11:38 pm:        Adam, this was not spoken by Jesus directly, but I think it may be what you are looking for. If I read the Scripture correctly, it indicates that Gentiles (that is, not Israel, not the Jewish peoples) who come to the saving knowledge of Christ are not bound by Old Testament law. Acts 15 1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.   god (god) New member Username: god Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.86.190.205 Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 5:48 pm:        You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Please do not quote My book as if you understand it. You read English translations. I did not write it in English. Have you ever heard of the phrase "lost in translation?" Do not judge others. Instead, make sure that you, yourselves, live decent and genuine and compassionate lives. Especially do not hate those who preach love, acceptance, understanding, communication, and dialogue--the messages of true Christianity and the message of all manmade religions based upon Me.   lilly (lilly) New member Username: lilly Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 10:10 am:        You should be trembling w/fear to assume you can speak for God. But because you don't know Him, you can be so bold. God is love, true, but He is equally righteousness and justice. Those who want to live their corrupt, worldly, sinful lives and not conform to the image of Christ always speak out against "people who judge". As far as manmade religions "based on God". They may mention God, but a manmade religion has no value and is based on only one god, the god of this world, Satan. (Message edited by lilly on November 22, 2004)   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) New member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 6:29 pm:        lilly, you dare to rebuke the Most High??!! Perhaps it is you who should be trembling w/fear. If you read the sermons posted here daily, you must surely see that there are many who assume they can speak for God. And I think it surpassing bold of you to assume that the Almighty does not know Himself. Were you not listening when the Christ spoke out against "people who judge"? Or do you think He didn't mean what He said?   lilly (lilly) New member Username: lilly Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 7:09 pm:        Yeah, right. God writes to us from factnet? Oh, and "Mother Mary" was in downtown Brooklyn yesterday, and she left her icon on a partially eaten cheese sandwich. Give me a break.   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) New member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:33 pm:          lilly (lilly) New member Username: lilly Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 12:48 pm:          jesus (jesus) New member Username: jesus Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.8.194.4 Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:25 am:        i believe in setting an example for others..Dont judge others??? That is IMPOSSIBLE!! that is a Cliche'.. Can some judgements be true? Can some judgements be false? I guess God the father only knows.. I also believe in people making JUDGEMENTS for THEMSELVES...The problem is, some people can't keep their judgements TO themselves.. Oh well.. I guess judges will keep judging... Its a form of expression of choice..   hillbilly (hillbilly) Intermediate Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 121 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:40 am:        OK . . . where is the Holy Spirit?   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) New member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 10:13 am:        Erm... ever present, everywhere?   hillbilly (hillbilly) Intermediate Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.89.92.2 Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:17 am:          sharon (sharon) New member Username: sharon Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.103.91 Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 7:51 pm:        God .... Is that you? Its me Sharon, question, I read your book and to be truthful I was wondering why you did not explain reincarnation in the good book? Also, is it true that if someone does not believe in Jesus that they are lost? Does everyone get a chance to meet him? And while I have you here could you tell me is santa really an anogram for satan. Since he is also called old nick which is one of satans names, why do people not see that he has taken the total focus off Jesus and placed it on the jolly glutton. I know you have these answers and since you came here I await your answer. For ever your servant Sharon   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 4:13 pm:        To comprehend the "Spiritual Realm", their needs to be understood that there are two, one that is with YHVH, and one that is against YHVH. It was Christ who said that everyone that is not for him is against him. Now as is clearly written in the Scriptures, there is only one recognized way to worship the one true God, YHVH. So to take the scriptures literally, which I do, any one who does not follow all of the moral order regulations, and does not correctly interpret scripture, is on the other side. Take for example "Billy Graham", the progenitor of the most bastardized doctrines in history; keep in mind that he is a so-called "jew" named Billy Frank. This is the one who elevated "multiculturalism" into a "Christian Doctrine", now first of all, there is no such thing, there is one culture called for in the Scriptures, and everything else is evil. This divinely ordained culture is Christianity, composed of Christians, who either reprimand or destroy that which offends Biblical doctrines. Now you may say there are non-Christians, of other "religions" and other races, I will inform you that they will not survive the Second Coming when Christ orders the slaying of all those who "Refused that I rule". And how about the race-mixed mongrels who Billy Frank caters too, the scriptures tell us to keep the racial line pure? And that a bastard shall not enter the congregation unto the end generation? And what is a bastard? It is the word "mamzer", which means race-mixed mongrel. This Billy Frank is also the one who tells us to court sodomites, and bring them in, while the scriptures clearly call them an abomination fit only for death. The same Billy Frank supports women clergy, and intends to "ordain" his own daughter, the scriptures say that only a man may be a priest, or clergy. Now I use Billy Frank as an example, although most of the so-called priests, or clergy, have adopted the same bastardized theology, now what Spiritual Realm do they represent? When so-called clergy and so-called "jewry" collaborate on spiritual project, how can those who represent Christ supposedly be assisted by those who deny Christ, and bear the stain of having been those who killed Christ to further their own false religion? All of these signs expose the realm that they represent. Billy Frank (Graham) is a jew and a puppet for the cult of Judeo-Christianity. Judeo-Christianity is an oxymoron. They are diametrically opposed to one another. Judaism, Talmudism and the Tradition of the Elders is of the devil. True Bible Christianity opposes them to the fullest!   yogi (yogi) Intermediate Member Username: yogi Post Number: 274 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.27.64.222 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 4:18 pm:        NEWS ABOUT BILLY GRAHAM WDAC 94.5 fm THE VOICE of christian radio Most influence on the church; Billy Graham comes to the top again. Bob Ditmar tell us who’s else in on the list, “Graham was followed by Purpose Driven author Rick Warren, president George Bush, Dr. James Dobson and Bill Hybels pastor of Willow Creek Community Church.” President of Southern Evangelical Seminary, Dr. Norm Geisler says, “Graham had certainly earned the recognition.” [Telephone interview with Geisler] “Given his longevity, and integrity and his faithfulness to the gospel message, I think he probably is one of the most important figures in modern church history.” He says, “He is exceedingly grateful that President Bush; a politician known for his evangelical convictions, also made the list. The greatest influence on American churches, researcher George Barnard interviewed more than 600 senior pastors nationwide to find out who are the church’s most influential leaders. At the top of the list is Billy Graham, who is name by one third of the respondents; he was followed by Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church and author of Purpose Driven Life, other leaders who made the list include James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Bill Hybels, pastor of Willow Creek Community Church and Bishop T.D. Jakes, of The Potters House. References: wdac.com/ normgeisler.com The Potter's Touch - TD Jakes Ministries   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 5:27 pm:        Jewish Masonic Lodge Awards Billy Graham In their own words "B'nai B'rith, the only Jewish organization with a full-time presence at the United Nations, is the world's oldest and largest Jewish organization with members in 56 countries." B'nai B'rith is an anti-christian jewish masonic lodge. They have a high rank in the Illuminati structure and they operate under several fronts. Not all the work they do is bad. They hunt nazis and usually fight again racism but being a form of Freemasonry, it operates as a secret society within a secret society, a circle within a circle etc, so that only the elite of this organization knows the real agenda and the normal jewish person working for them is doing the best they can. I will present as much documentation later on in this article to show the Masonic structure within this group, but first I will mention their link to Billy Graham. According to the official Billy Graham Evangelistic Assocaiation webpage Billy Graham recieved the "The Torch of Liberty Plaque by the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, 1969" Remembering that the main definition of Masonry as being 'Freemasonry is a peculiar system of Morality, veiled in Allegory, and illustrated by Symbols' , we will examine the occult significance of the term 'Torch of Liberty' and it's possible meaning to the 'enlightened' of the Illuminati. Research taken from the book called "Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated" states the following about the torch symbol: Many of the gods and godesses of mythology carried torches. Some of these are: Hecata (the "Queen of the Witches"), Comus, Eros, Hymenaeus (or Hymen), Apollo, Ilithyia, Eos (or Aurora), Iakchaos & Phosphorus (who is also called Lucifer) Listen to what occultist Edouard Schure says about Lucifer and his flaming torch: "Lucifer, having regained his star and his diadem, will assemble his legions for new works of creation. Attracted by his flaming torch, celestial spirits will descend...and he will send these messengers from unknown spheres to earth. Then the torch of Lucifer will signal 'From Heaven to Earth!'- and the...Christ will answer 'From Earth to Heaven!" Hardcore Luciferian, 33rd Degree Freemason, Core Illuminati figure Manly Palmer Hall states that "the torches represent the Occult arts and sciences, the doctrines and dogmas by the light of which Truth is made visible." A book publisher that prints Masonic and Eastern Star books is called The Torch Press. Ok so now we have examined the torch element of Graham's award but where does the liberty part fit in? When the phrase 'Torch of Liberty' is mentioned it will usually bring people to think about the Statue of Liberty in whose hand is held a torch. This vile Illuminati structure was created by the Freemasons and is a New Age symbol of Lucifer's New World Order. According to Texe Marrs, "Towering above the shimmering but polluted waters, she holds in her outreached arm a torch of fire and light. A gift of the Masonic Order, the modern inheritors of the Illuminati heritage, the Statue of Liberty was sculptured by Frederic Bartholdi, a member of the Masonic Lodge of Alsace-Lorraine in Paris, France. The statue is significant to the secret societies plotting the New World Order." With losing most if not all the data from 5 or 6 hard drives, I lost some really good evidence that B'nai B'rith is really a branch of Freemasonry. Luckily I had printed these documents out, it is now just a matter of finding them. The good news is that after doing a search on the Internet for more evidence I discovered a page that not only links B'nai B'rith to the highest degrees of Freemasonry, but the page also mentions Billy Graham! It is a biography of Rabbi Robert I. Kahn. Below are some extracts from this page. Rabbi Kahn has preached and lectured all over the United States, in person and over radio and television. In a national "Back to God" telecast, he shared the camera with Billy Graham. In his community, Rabbi Kahn has served on the boards of several social agencies such as Red Cross, Boy scouts, Travellers Aid, Mental Health, Muscular Dystrophy, Houston Metropolitan Ministries, United Fund, etc. He is a member of B'nai B'rith, of which he is a Past President, the Masons, Scottish Rite, Shrine. He was President of the Houston Rotary Club in 1967-1968, the largest Rotary Club in the world, and was District Governor for 1978-1979. He has been grand Chaplain of the grand Lodge of Texas and is now Chaplain of the Arabia Shrine Temple of Houston. He has been honored by the Boy Scouts of America with the Silver Beaver and Ner Tamid Awards; by the Freedoms Foundation with a George Washington Medal; by the French Government for service to veterans; by the Masonic Order with the 33rd degree, by the ZOA District with the Robert I. Kahn Lodge; by the State of Israel with the Prime Minister's Medal for Israel Bonds. A forest has been planted in his honor in Israel. From the sounds of things this guy must be either a key Illuminati figure or a totally deluded individual. It mentions that he was a former president of B'nai B'rith as well as a 33rd Degree Freemason, Shriner and Masonic Grand Chaplain. The other groups that he was involved in being the Boy Scouts, Red Cross and Rotary were ALL founded by Freemasons. Link this to the fact that he shared the spotlight with Illuminati 33rd Degree Freemason Billy Graham and you have a page that to the unknowledgeable seems fine but really nearly all references point back to the Cult of Freemasonry. Time to see what the reference Masonic book called '10,000 Famous Freemason' says about B'nai B'rith Frank Goldman , President of B'nai B'rith, 1947-53 and honorary president since that date. b. Dec. 4, 1890 in Lowell, Mass. Graduate of Boston U. summa cum laude in 1910 and admitted to Mass. bar in 1912, practicing in Lowell. A member of B'nai B'rith since 1920, he served as president of the Lowell lodge, district president, national vice president, 1941-47. He has been editor of The National Jewish Monthly since 1947. Active in civic and Jewish charity organizations. Mason and 32 degree AASR (NJ). Here we now have two high ranking Freemason who were also presidents of B'nai B'rith and there will still be a lot more to come when I find my original documents and new information from the Internet and contacts. I previously mentioned that B'nai B'rith is anti-christian. Time to document this fact. B'nai B'rith, wishing to keep the Jewish people away from the gospel of Jesus Christ, has fought against the Southern Baptist Convention (which is ironically controlled by the Freemasons as well!) to stop them from witnessing to Jews. When I state that the Southern Baptists are controlled by Freemasonry it does not mean that all members are evil. It is the opposite, and the same goes for Freemasonry in general. The Elite of these cults are the true evil.   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Intermediate Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:56 am:        TO ANYONE WHO TAKES "PASTOR" TRENT WOODARD SERIOUSLY: Here is a PICTURE of him in his neo-nazi costume (or is it a "Christian soldier" suit?) ~ Now, honestly, would you buy a religious philosophy - or even a used car - from this man?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 194 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:59 am:        Thanks again for the free advertising TP. Actually Nazis wear brown shirts, not blue police shirts LOL. And I am not selling anything, I offer the truth for free! At least I don't hide behind some gibberish name such as tpkwertyuioqwerty, but I openly express my faith with no false pretenses and no hidden agenda. I know "my" message is not popular but the truth is seldom popular, if ever. Teutonic Knight Crusaders Blue Tunic Army of Christ   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Intermediate Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 1:42 pm:        "Thanks again for the free advertising TP. Actually Nazis wear brown shirts, not blue police shirts LOL." - It isn't the colour of the shirt which marks the nazi, Trent. LOL. "And I am not selling anything, I offer the truth for free!" - What you are offering is anything but the truth, and when the German people in 1933 accepted a similar "offering", they soon found themselves having to pay a terrible price for their gullibility. "At least I don't hide behind some gibberish name such as tpkwertyuioqwerty, but I openly express my faith with no false pretenses and no hidden agenda." - I'm not "hiding", I have no false pretenses, and my agenda is not hidden. My purpose is to pull off your "religious" disguise and expose you for what you are. "I know 'my' message is not popular but the truth is seldom popular, if ever." - How appropriate that you put "my" in quotes. We both know that you are neither the creator of the "Racial Covenant Israel Identity" philosophy, nor the author of most of what you have been posting all over this message board. There is a reason "your" message isn't popular, Trent. Regardless of how they may receive various versions of "the truth", people tend to be suspicious of preachers who preach a gospel of hatred.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 203 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 2:20 pm:        tpfkqwertyuiopasdfghj, I put "my" in quotes because of yours and others futile accusations in saying it is "my" message. It is NOT <my> message but the message of the gospel which Yahshua preached and of the entire Bible. I preach a gospel of love for Yahweh and His People and a hatred for anti-christs and enemies of righteousness which is rightfully it's counterpart. It is funny that you consider me such a threat. If what I said was complete BS people would not even give it the time of day. But the things I say seem to stir up every single person out there in one way or another. Why do YOU hate me...because I tell you the truth? http://www.covenantchurchofyahweh.com   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Intermediate Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 127 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 4:37 pm:        "I put 'my' in quotes because of yours and others futile accusations in saying it is 'my' message. It is NOT <my> message but the message of the gospel which Yahshua preached and of the entire Bible." - I never said that it's "your" message. I'm not yet certain just whose message it is, but I suspect you are copy-and-pasting the writings of someone else, and posting them here without attribution. Can you say "p-l-a-g-i-a-r-i-s-m"? - I didn't think you could... What I am certain of, however, is that it isn't the voice of "Yahweh" or "Yahshua" that I hear when you speak. "I preach a gospel of love for Yahweh and His People and a hatred for anti-christs and enemies of righteousness which is rightfully it's counterpart." - Not only is this statement false, it claims an impossibility. Just as light is the absence of darkness, love is the absence of hate, not its counterpart. You can have one or the other, but not both together. (And who anointed you the guardian of righteousness and the elector of "His People"?) "It is funny that you consider me such a threat." - I consider the ideas you promote a threat, because I have seen what can happen when such a "philosophy" gets a foothold in popular consciousness and people who believe in it gain political power. I consider you a threat in the way that I would someone who is afflicted with a contagious illness. "If what I said was complete BS people would not even give it the time of day. But the things I say seem to stir up every single person out there in one way or another." - Here and there, scattered throughout what you say, there is a grain of truth, so it isn't complete BS. That's how clever propaganda is manufactured. But I think the reason people "give it the time of day" is the same reason people slow down and gawk at roadway accidents. "Why do YOU hate me...because I tell you the truth?" - I don't hate you, Trent. I rebuke you, because I love the truth.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 224 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 5:40 pm:        tpfqwertyuasdfghj, said, "What you are offering is anything but the truth, and when the German people in 1933 accepted a similar "offering", they soon found themselves having to pay a terrible price for their gullibility." I was not aware that anyone taught the Racial Covenant Israel message in Germany at that time? What they got was a war perpetrated by the Jews, just like the one we are fighting now!   sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.56 Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:15 am:        trentwoodard...I told you what you were preaching was the same thing as what hitler was preaching. YOu know this, you are preaching the exact same thing, and just like him it goes much farther than the Jews does it not, to Blacks and all others who do not have white skin. Sound familar? I fully expect to hear you speak out against the gysies. I hope you are not telling folks that you are a Christian, you can not follow Christ and preach hate. Read more of what hitler said and I think you may be surprized at how similar you sound. Got to say he was a very unattractive man inside and out, sick to, mentally you know. Follow Jesus and preach LOVE, or Follow hitler and preach HATE. I guess you already made your choice. May God Forgive You and bring you back to Him.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 11:52 am:        Swedish pastor appeals hate crime conviction 21 Jan 2005 The Associated Press: A Swedish pastor convicted of spreading hate by denouncing homosexuality in a sermon asked an appeals court Jan. 19 to overturn his conviction and the 30-day prison sentence he received. Aake Green, 63, was sentenced to a month in prison in June 2004 under the country's hate crimes law after he cited Biblical scripture to condemn homosexuality during a church service, calling it "a deep cancer tumor on all of society" and warning that Sweden risked a natural disaster because of its tolerance for gays and lesbians. Green, who also said AIDS has its roots in homosexuality, was convicted in a district court after the prosecutor, Kjell Yngvesson, argued that Green "expressed disdain for the homosexuals as a group" and compared his sermon to a racist shouting a Nazi salute. The case has drawn attention in Sweden and abroad with churches, religious groups and free-speech advocates calling Green's conviction a direct challenge to freedom of speech and religion. During the hearing, dozens of demonstrators gathered outside the court, some carrying signs in support of Green, others against him.   sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.108.206 Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 2:22 pm:        More cut and paste, do you have any orginal thoughts, or do you just follow every one but Jesus.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 278 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:10 am:        Billy Graham is a Masonic Jew Real last name: Frank (not Graham) Nothing more than an imposter just like the Jewish Pharisees at the time of Christ. He is a universalist and condones homosexuality.   ultimate1 (ultimate1) Member Username: ultimate1 Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.165.157.160 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:19 am:        trent Your ip addresses pops up as other people. You trying to have split posting peronalities? To say what you say the things you say about Billy Graham makes you lose more than any crediblility you could have had. You sound worse than just racist. You sound full of hate,mistrust and fear! Crying wolf in the wrong places with Bad WRONG information. It makes you sound like your elevator doesn't go all the way to the top, with two bricks short of a load, and two french fries short of a happy meal. Arterioschlerosis of the brain? In other words you are full of NUTS! You discern very little truth! You are full of CONSPIRACY theories about anyone in the public eye.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 280 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:19 pm:        I never knew my IP address had anything to do with my personality...LOL I am the only one in this forum that I know of who uses their first and last name as their screen name....everyone else hides behind some other "personality" You people really do amuse me with some things that you say..... Prove what I say about Billy Frank is not true instead of making opinionated comments....   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 281 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:36 pm:        So are you denying that Billy Frank received this award from the Jews and is a Freemason? While I am on a roll, I might as well mention a few more. There are a lot that are the so-called Christian Zionists that are both Jewish and non-Jewish, men and women; people such as Binny Hinn;(Jew) Bill Bright; Billy Graham;(Jew) Brother Stair; David Lankford; Hal Lindsey (Jew); Jack van Impe; James Robison; James Dobson; Jerry Falwell (A so-called Christian Zionist); Jim Bakker (Jew); Jimmy Swaggart; John Hagee; Joyce Meyers; Kenneth Copelan; Kenny Hagin; Marilyn Hickey; Marlin Maddoux; Mike Evans; Oral Roberts; Pat Robertson;(Huge Zionists) Paul Crouch; Robert Schuler; Dr. Wolf (Jew); David Pilinger; Berst Beach; Rod Parsley; Tom Bambley; James Kennedy; J.W. Williams , Doug Batchler; Jack Graham; J.K. Halilton , Allan Lane, Gilbert Graham, T.D. Jakes , Wanda David , Fredrick K.C. Price. These are a perfect description of what Yahshua told the Jews: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." (Matthew 23:15) For it is a direct result of their teachings and those like them that the Jews have been able to get away with the murder of over 100 million Christians in the last 100 years alone. It is these and those like them that the Prophet was speaking of when he said: "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant." (Isaiah 56:10-12)   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 282 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:50 pm:        Graeme Keith, chairman of the Carolinas Billy Graham Crusade Committee, is quoted in the Charlotte Observer (March 1, 1996) as saying: "'We have Jewish, Catholic, Protestant and other denominations represented on the committee....Our goal is to make it the finest crusade Dr. Graham has ever conducted.' Graham has even gone further afield on occasion. At his 1966 World Congress on Evangelism in Berlin, Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie, who is head of the Coptic Orthodox Church, was featured. The Coptic Church is a blend of Christianity, Judaism, animism and paganism."   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 283 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 1:00 pm:        In 1 Peter 5:2 these men are supposed to do, but do not, because they are following after filthy lucre (money). "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; NOT FOR FILTHY LUCRE..." THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN CLERGY IN THE PULPITS OF AMERICA ARE FALSE TEACHERS, AND ARE JUDIAZED DECEIVERS. "WOE BE UNTO THE PASTORS THAT DESTROY AND SCATTER THE SHEEP OF MY PASTURE! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD...MINE HEART WITHIN ME IS BROKEN BECAUSE OF THE PROPHETS...FOR THE LAND IS FULL OF ADULTERERS (Half-Breeds)...FOR BOTH PROPHET AND PRIEST ARE PROFANE: YEA, IN MY HOUSE HAVE I FOUND THEIR WICKEDNESS, saith the LORD. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD. And I HAVE SEEN FOLLY IN THE PROPHETS OF SAMARIA; THEY PROPHESIED IN BAAL, AND CAUSED MY PEOPLE ISRAEL TO ERR. I HAVE SEEN ALSO IN THE PROPHETS OF JERUSALEM AN HORRIBLE THING: THEY COMMIT ADULTERY (Mixing of the races), AND WALK IN LIES: THEY STRENGTHEN ALSO THE HANDS OF EVILDOERS, THAT NONE DOTH RETURN FROM HIS WICKEDNESS: THEY ARE ALL OF THEM UNTO ME AS SODOM, AND THE INHABITANTS THEREOF AS GOMORRAH. THEREFORE THUS SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS CONCERNING THE PROPHETS; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. THUS SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS, HEARKEN NOT UNTO THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS THAT PROPHESY UNTO YOU: THEY MAKE YOU VAIN: THEY SPEAK A VISION OF THEIR OWN HEART, AND NOT OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THE LORD. THEY SAY STILL UNTO THEM THAT DESPISE ME, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you...I HAVE NOT SENT THESE PROPHETS, YET THEY RAN: I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO THEM, YET THEY PROPHESIED. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. I HAVE HEARD WHAT THE PROPHETS SAID, THAT PROPHESY LIES IN MY NAME...HOW LONG SHALL THIS BE IN THE HEART OF THE PROPHETS THAT PROPHESY LIES? YEA, THEY ARE PROPHETS OF THE DECEIT OF THEIR OWN HEART; WHICH THINK TO CAUSE MY PEOPLE TO FORGET MY NAME...THEREFORE, BEHOLD, I AM AGAINST THE PROPHETS, SAITH THE LORD. THAT STEAL MY WORDS EVERY ONE FROM HIS NEIGHBOUR, BEHOLD, I AM AGAINST THE PROPHETS, SAITH THE LORD, THAT USE THEIR TONGUES, AND SAY, HE SAITH. BEHOLD, I AM AGAINST THEM THAT PROPHESY FALSE DREAMS, SAITH THE LORD, AND DO TELL THEM, AND CAUSE MY PEOPLE TO ERR BY THEIR LIES, AND BY THEIR LIGHTNESS; YET I SENT THEM NOT, NOR COMMANDED THEM: THEREFORE THEY SHALL NOT PROFI8T THIS PEOPLE AT ALL, SAITH THE LORD...THUS SHALL THOU SAY TO THE PROPHET...AND I WILL BRING AN EVERLASTING REPROACH UPON YOU, AND A PERPETUAL SHAME, WHICH SHALL NOT BE FORGOTTEN." (Jeremiah 23:1-40) More than 95% of the so-called preachers, ministers, priests and etc., in the pulpits of America today are nothing more or less than PRIESTS, MINISTERS, PREACHERS, YEA: THEY ARE DISCIPLES OF SATAN! Billy Frank (Graham) is but a drop in the bucket.   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Intermediate Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 3:33 pm:        "Prove what I say about Billy Frank is not true instead of making opinionated comments...." - There you go again, "pastor"... Who is "Billy Frank"? If that's what you claim The Rev William Franklin Graham Jr's "real" name is, then it is YOUR responsibility to supply proof that what you claim is true; otherwise YOU are the one making an opinionated comment. BTW, it might help your credibility if you would tell us the names of all your male ancestors who lived before 1791. That way, we could determine what your "real" name should be.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 286 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:46 am:        I don't care if you believe the true identity of Billy or not. You can look up who his parents and grandparents were for yourself and see that their name was Frank but they changed it to Graham. Funny thing about Billy Graham is he warned President Nixon about the jews and what they were doing to this country.....there are many jews that hate their own people, kind of ironic but true nonetheless. As far as you worrying about my heritage, you are the one who says ancestery does not matter, so why even ask? I have traced my roots much further than 1791. I really am about to conclude my discussion with you. I think you are but wasting my time. I want to talk to people who want to know the truth, not who have a personal vendetta against me. Have a nice life.   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Intermediate Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 6:41 pm:        I'm not in the least worried about your heritage, "pastor". I've a good idea whence you sprang, and I know full well where you're "coming from". The only thing yet to be seen is where you're going. I don't recall saying "ancestery" does not matter; it does, in that it gives us our physical form and to a degree determines how healthy we are and how long we will live. But it has nothing to do with our spiritual life. In that sense it truly does not matter. So, why are you so worried about Billy ["Frank"] Graham's heritage? You may conclude your discussion with me, but that won't conclude my criticism of what you say, which will continue unabated so long as you continue to pollute the FACTNet forum with your pseudoreligious neo-nazi propaganda. I am not here to conduct a "personal vendetta" against you, Trent Woodard. It's just that I have both a long memory and a full awareness of what your "teachings" can lead to if people are deceived into accepting them as "truth". And it is my sacred duty, as a human being and a lover of truth, to gainsay the hate-filled "gospel" you preach.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 391 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 68.115.188.220 Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 9:34 am:        Rev. Billy Graham -- Dr. Cathy Burns wrote her 788-page book, "Billy Graham and His Friends", to illustrate Dr. Graham's exceedingly numerous ties to the Illuminati. To single out the most infamous ties would be a most daunting task; however, Dr. Burns feels that Billy Graham was selected by the Illuminati as far back as 1942 to become the foremost "holy man" in America! Listen: "At that time (1946) no one in the Christian community knew that the World Government had begun to build 'AN ICON' that later would be accepted by large masses of people, 'A HOLY MAN', speaking for God." [Burns, p. 54; Emphasis was in original] Billy Graham was that "Icon", that deliberately created "Holy Man", offered to the masses of undiscerning people. But, why should we be surprised, for Dr. Graham himself admitted he was an Ecumenicist, not a Fundamental Christian. Listen: "In 1950, Billy Graham held a Crusade at Boston. Listen to what he says about the Unitarian Church: 'At that time, Protestantism in New England was weak, due in part to theological differences within some denominations, the influence of Unitarian ideas in other denominations, and the strength of the Roman Catholic Church. In spite of all that, a number of Roman Catholic priests and Unitarian clergy ... came to the meetings along with those from evangelical churches. With my limited evangelical background, this was a further expansion of my own ecumenical outlook. I now began to make friends among people from many different backgrounds and to develop a spiritual love for their clergy'. Did you notice that, over 50 years ago, Graham had developed a 'spiritual love' for the Unitarian clergy?" [Burns, p. 71] Further, Graham personally defines himself as holding to an " ecumenical outlook"! New Age and New World Order authors make it quite plain that the Ecumenical Movement -- also known as the "One Universal Church" -- is a most important organization designed specifically to unify all the world's religious religions. [Read NEWS1165 for full details]. The Ecumenical Movement is a precursor to the One World Church of Antichrist! When I was sneaked into the Members Only seminar at the Boston House of Theosophy, the New England Director boldly stated that the Roman Catholic Pope was leading the global spiritual drive to the global religion of Antichrist, known primarily as the Ecumenical Movement [Read NEWS1052]. This is the dream of Rev. Sun Moon and all his organizations. Thus, he must have been very pleased with Dr. Billy Graham during the 1991 Gulf War, when President Bush (Sr.) asked him to come to the White House to lead the nation in prayer for the war that Bush had already declared to be a New World Order war! Listen to Dr. Graham's public remarks after he came out of the "prayer service" in which he preached a short sermon: "Perhaps out of this war will come a new peace and -- as has been stated by the President -- a New World Order." [Burns, op. cit., p. 63-4] Dr. Graham financially plugged into the Illuminati one spot above Rev. Moon. He received much support from the Rockefeller groups, who is, in turn, owned by Phillippe Rothschild! [Burns, op.cit., p. 388] Graham also has received support from: Vanderbilts, Whitneys, Goulds, Dodges, and Phelps, and even Standard Oil Company (another Rockefeller connection). [Burns, op. cit., p. 31] In 1982, Billy Graham received the Illuminist Templeton Award [Read about Templeton Award above under Bill Bright]. Even though Templeton is a pantheist and Illuminist through and through -- a man who does not believe in either the Bible or Jesus Christ as God -- Graham praised him greatly. "Truly a legend in our time, John Templeton understands that the real measure of a person's success in life is not financial accomplishment but moral integrity and inner character. In this book he draws upon a variety of sources -- including the Bible -- to reveal the moral and spiritual principles which have shaped his own life and work." [Burns, op. cit., p. 24] John Templeton then tells us exactly what he considers a "variety of sources" upon which he has built his life: "The basic principles for leading a 'sublime life' ... may be derived from any religious training -- Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and others, as well as Christian." [Ibid.] Clearly, Billy Graham is a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing! http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1818.cfm   detective29 (detective29) New member Username: detective29 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 216.218.108.9 Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 3:32 pm:        Mr. Woodard, I noticed that you mentioned John Hagee in your list of "jews". Is the reason you include him in your list because he supports the return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel or is there some other reason(s)?   mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 210.212.245.147 Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 6:34 am:        God spoke for Lodelia / office of the prophet, He/She is not the one who speak out my real words. He/she is speaking something which are irrelevent to the power of God. I may have to punish him if it is going on in the wrong way. But you people do not worry about what he/she speaks and their is no truth in the prophecies propagated by him/her.   arron (arron) Intermediate Member Username: arron Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.45.188 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 9:36 pm:        in reference to billy graham saying homosexual are born that way. that is not true for how could GOD judge us if he made us a certain way   migl22 (migl22) New member Username: migl22 Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 172.200.148.155 Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 8:48 am:        feel free to see the video of Graham. http://www.firstplumbline.net/graham%20vids/Grahamandschuller.mpg Dr. Graham believes that even Moslems and Buddhists are "Part of the Body of Christ" Transcript. Robert Schuller: "Tell me, what do you think of the future of Christianity?" Billy Graham: "I think everybody who knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ...God's purpose is to call out a people for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, Buddhist world, the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus...and I think they are saved, and that they are going to be in heaven with us." Robert Schuller (overjoyed): "What I hear you saying is that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life even if they've been born into darkness and never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?" Billy Graham: "Yes it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world...that have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God." http://www.bible.ca/billy-graham-Larry-king-jan-1997.ram Larry King: "What do you think of Mormonism, Catholicism, other faiths within the Christian concept?" Billy Graham: "Well I think I am in wonder fellowship with all of them." Larry King: "You are comfortable with Salt Lake City. You are comfortable with the Vatican?" Billy Graham: "I am very comfortable with the Vatican." Larry King: "You were preaching in his church (Pope) the day he was made Pope." Billy Graham: "That is correct." What Graham Said in the Oval Office Rev. Billy Graham's newly-released comments to President Nixon have created a swirl of controversy. Just released by the National Archives, the controversial Graham-Nixon conversation took place on February 1, 1972 in the Oval Office. Because the quality of the original recording makes portions difficult to understand, we offer notes on "What to Listen For" for each clip. AUDIO WHAT TO LISTEN FOR CLIP 1: http://www.beliefnet.com/audio/religion/graham_nixon/graham1a.ram Graham and Nixon discuss a "powerful bloc" of Jews in the media. Agreeing with Nixon on all the problems the Jewish media is causing, Graham adds: "And they're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff." CLIP 2: http://www.beliefnet.com/audio/religion/graham_nixon/graham1b.ram "This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain," says Graham. "You believe that?" Nixon asked after Graham used the word "stranglehold." "Yes, sir," Graham replies. "Oh boy," replies the then-president. "So do I. I can't ever say that but I believe it." CLIP 3: http://www.beliefnet.com/audio/religion/graham_nixon/graham1c.ram Graham discusses how, under the Nixon presidency, he's had to quiet down "on just about everything that would make any news, due to the fact that I didn't want to look like I was critical of some policy of yours..." CLIP 4: http://www.beliefnet.com/audio/religion/graham_nixon/graham1d.ram Graham says that he has friends in the media who are Jewish: "[They] swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know I'm friends of Israel." But, he confides to Nixon, "They don't know how I really feel about what they're doing to this country."   alphaomega (alphaomega) New member Username: alphaomega Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 198.96.86.4 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 3:51 pm:        Billy Graham is a goat, a fraud, a slick religious salesman selling "easy believism" "cotton candy" "quickfix" "free will" religion to the masses. He is a dangerous man, this protestant pope, and needs to be exposed for sucking America down the "FREEWILL" religion path. He doesn't tell roman catholics to get out of roman catholicism, but tells the papists to join his choir and sing along. What kind of man is this anyways??? Apart from his Freemasonry involvements and other heretical assocations, do yourself a favor America and the rest of world and do your research of this man, before you laud praises and honor his way. He does a great disservice to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Billy was bought out by the vatican and free masons years ago. BILLY GRAHAM November 7, 1918 - ? Books Billy Graham Has Authored: Angels; Answers to Life's Problems; Death and the Life After; The Holy Spirit; Hope for Each Day; Hope for the Troubled Heart; How to Be Born Again; Just As I Am; The Key to Personal Peace; Peace with God; Words of Wisdom. Time magazine named Billy Graham one of its 20 heroes and icons of the 20th century. He is part of the publication’s top 100 people of the last 100 years, news reports said. Previous lists have included top leaders, revolutionaries, artists, entertainers, builders, scientists, and thinkers. It was compiled by Time editors who consulted with CBS News, public figures, academics, journalists, and political analysts. In the May 6, 1957, issue of Newsweek, Graham stated: "I have many friends among Catholic priests, and a number of New York Catholic leaders have written me stating that they believe New York needs a spiritual awakening, and have promised me their prayers and interest even though they could not officially support the meetings. The Catholic Church has always been as friendly and as tolerant as their church law will allow them toward our crusades." In a report in Newsweek magazine in October 1960, Graham admitted that he would not lead Catholics out of their denomination: "Despite their probable Roman Catholic background, some 50 percent of Spanish-speaking New Yorkers have no current church affiliation of any kind, according to Protestant churchmen. Dr. Graham made it clear that he and his fellow crusaders have no intention of doing any proselyting. He emphasized: ‘The important thing to us is that these people are unchurched. We want them to accept Christ and they can do that whether they think of themselves as Catholics or Protestants’" (Newsweek, October 17, 1960). Graham conducted crusades in Latin America in 1962. He notes that they had to "move with great caution" because of divisions and controversies between Protestants and Catholics in that part of the world. In his 1997 autobiography, he refers to that division as the fault of both Catholics and Protestants. Upon the death of Pope John XXIII in 1963, Graham made this amazing remark from Bonn, Germany: "I admire Pope John tremendously. I felt he brought a new era to the world. It is my hope that the Cardinals elect a new Pope who will follow the same line as John. It would be a great tragedy if they choose a man who reacted against John, who re-erected the walls" (Michigan City News-Dispatch, June 2, 1963). From one false prophet to another In 1963, Graham spoke at a Park Sheraton Hotel breakfast that was held to support his New York World’s Fair pavilion. The New York Times of October 25 reported that he spoke on increasing cooperation between Protestants and Roman Catholics, and said if Pope Paul asked him to go out and preach the gospel, he would do it (Wilson Ewin, Evangelism: The Trojan Horse of the 1990’s). The problem with such a statement is that it confuses people and fails to make any distinction between false gospels and the true gospel. Pope Paul did not preach the true gospel of the grace of Christ. He preached Rome’s sacramental grace-works gospel. Why, then, does Graham say he would preach the gospel if asked by Pope Paul? What gospel would he preach under such circumstances? Pope Paul’s gospel, or the Bible gospel? Graham pretends that they are the same, and herein lies the great error and wickedness of ecumenical evangelism. It was also in 1963 that Graham first spoke at a Roman Catholic institution. It was the Belmont Abbey College. Four years later he was awarded an honorary degree by this institution (The Gastonia Gazette, Nov. 22, 1967). The priest who invited Graham, Cuthbert Allen, Executive Vice-President of the college, noted that Graham was scheduled to speak at other Catholic colleges that year. In the New York Times for October 25, 1963, Graham acknowledged that he had preaching engagements scheduled at five Roman Catholic institutions. Priest Cuthbert Allen made the following interesting observation of Graham’s ministry: I am the one who, being acquainted with Billy Graham, invited him to speak to the Fathers, the Nuns, students and invited guests, and I am pleased to reply to your inquiries. Billy Graham gave an inspiring and a theologically sound address that may have been given by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen or any other Catholic preacher. I have followed Billy Graham’s career and I must emphasize that he has been more Catholic than otherwise, and I say this not in a partisan manner but as a matter of fact. Knowing the tremendous influence of Billy Graham among Protestants and now the realization and acknowledgment among Catholics of his devout and sincere appeal to the teachings of Christ ... I WOULD STATE THAT HE COULD BRING CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS TOGETHER IN A HEALTHY ECUMENICAL SPIRIT. I was the first Catholic to invite Billy Graham; I know he will speak at three other Catholic universities next month; I believe he will be invited to more Catholic colleges in the future than Protestant colleges. So I am well pleased, then, to answer your question: BILLY GRAHAM IS PREACHING A MORAL AND EVANGELICAL THEOLOGY MOST ACCEPTABLE TO CATHOLICS (Letter of May 19, 1965, from Cuthbert E. Allen to Mr. Julius C. Taylor, reprinted in The Christian News, October 1, 1984). "Nor was the fault always on the Catholic side, I knew. Often Latin American Protestants were guilty of intolerance, negative preaching, and inflammatory language. I had no intention of adding fuel to the fire. In fact, whenever possible during our trip south (as well as on other tours), I tried to meet with local Catholic leaders, to the occasional consternation of some of our hosts. My goal, I always made clear, was not to preach against Catholic beliefs or to proselytize people who were already committed to Christ within the Catholic Church" (Graham, Just As I Am, p. 357). In May 1966, Graham made this statement: "I find myself closer to the Catholics than the radical Protestants. I think the Roman Catholic Church today is going through a second Reformation" (Evening Bulletin, Philadelphia, May 24, 1966). In July 1966, Graham held a crusade in London, England. Before leaving London, Graham met with the apostolic delegate from the Vatican (Graham interview with Edward B. Fiske, New York Times, July 17, 1966). Billy and John Paul are pretty good friends, here he is giving the pope a quilt as a gift. In October 1966, Graham was honorary chairman of the "World Congress on Evangelism" in Berlin, Germany. The congress was funded by the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Observers included representatives from the Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches. Paulist priest John B. Sheerin, special correspondent for the Religious News Service and editor of the Catholic World, spoke of Graham’s powers of compromise: "The delegates had come from all over the world and from disparate backgrounds and theologies which were reflected in their diverse and dissonant interpretations of the Bible. Only the Holy Spirit, working through Billy Graham as the human instrument, could have welded together so quickly so many men of different creeds. The spirit of Pope John hovered over the council. Billy Graham was physically, palpably and inescapably present at the Congress speaking admirably and holding together forces that would unquestionably have exploded in all directions save for his presence." A month after the Berlin Congress, the Toronto Daily Star of November 19, 1966, quoted a priest, William Manseau, one of the Catholic observers at the Berlin World Congress on Evangelism: "Father Manseau noted approvingly that a Catholic publication in England recently suggested that some day the Catholic Church may canonize the Baptist evangelist, making him ‘St. Billy’" (M.L. Moser, Jr., Ecumenicalism Under the Spotlight). In April, 1972, Billy Graham received the International Franciscan Award in Minneapolis, given by the Franciscan Friars for true ecumenism. Before I quote what Billy Graham said about Francis of Assissi, first let me say this about St. Francis. He believed he was saved by works, by helping the poor. This way, he believed he was saving his soul. St. Francis was canonized, which means he was made a saint by the Roman Catholic Institution because of his strong position on the doctrine of works. Beloved, we know that this is unscriptural. Did you know that St. Francis of Assissi blessed and baptized animals and gave them Christian names? Billy getting an honorary frock at Belmont Roman Catholic College Now, what did Billy Graham say about this strange fellow? He said, "While I am not worthy to touch the shoe laces of St. Francis, yet this same Christ that called Francis in the 13th century also called me to be one of His servants in the 20th century." When Billy Graham appeared on the Phil Donahue Show of October 11, 1979, in discussing Pope John Paul II's visit to the United States of America, Billy Graham said, "I think the American people are looking for a leader, a moral and spiritual leader that believes something. And he (meaning the pope) does. He didn't mince words on a single subject. As a matter of fact, his subject in Boston was really an evangelistic address in which he asked the people to come to Christ, to give their lives to Christ. I said, 'Thank God I've got somebody to quote now with some real authority.*'" How tragic. A man who once used the Bible as his authority is now putting the pope up on a pedestal and looking to him. Faith for the Family, Nov. 1982 The Religious News Service reported on January 13,1981, "Pope John Paul II was closeted for almost two hours with the Rev. Billy Graham, the world's best-known Protestant evangelist." "Following the New England Crusade, thousands of those who came forward are now in the process of being integrated into the Catholic church. Meetings have taken place between the Graham Association and Catholic clergy for the transfer of these people to the Roman church. One such meeting took place at Pope John XXIII Seminary in Weston, Massachusetts, on the evening of June 9, 1982, when the names of 2100 inquirers were given to priests and nuns." The Star, June 26, 1979 Rome gives nothing to anybody unless you pay it off. Could it be that his final pay-off was to introduce Pope John Paul II as the greatest moral leader of the world? Which he did. Didn't he realize when he did this he was giving the whore a cloak of respectability? And all of Billy's followers, the evangelicals and multitudes of others across this land who listen to his every word, heard this endorsement, and trusting Billy, turned and gave their love to the communist from Poland dressed in his papal robes, who claims to be the representative of Christ on this earth. I can picture the pope smiling to himself, flying back victoriously to Rome. He knew that Billy had been a good investment. A Shoehorn For Elvis: When anyone begins to accommodate all the people of the world, open worldliness must follow. Even so, it was shocking to read in the newspapers that Graham expected to see Elvis Presley in heaven. The San Francisco Chronicle for October 8, 1977, quoted an Associated Press dispatch from Charlotte as follows: "Evangelist Billy Graham says he thinks he will see Elvis Presley in heaven and is `pretty sure' he will die within the next tens years. `I never met him (Presley) but I believe I will see him in heaven because Elvis Presley was very deeply religious, especially in the last two or three years,' Graham said." Shoehorning Elvis into heaven seems to be a rather tough assignment, especially since it is predicated on being "very deeply religious" instead of repenting of sin and casting all on Jesus Christ. Billy Graham A Star In Hollywood: Hollywood has been the fountainhead of the filthy motion picture industry. On October 14, 1989, our local paper, The News-Herald, carried the following story: "The world's best-known evangelist tomorrow will have his name and the likeness of an old-fashioned radio microphone engraved on the 1900th star along the Hollywood Walk of Fame." Apparently, this dubious honor by the most worldly of the world bothered Billy a bit, for the story continues as follows: "`I'm not sure a clergyman belongs in that group of entertainers,' Graham said sheepishly, noting that his star will be near those honoring Wayne Newton, Buster Crabbe, John Travolta, Judy Holliday, Julie Andrews, Olivia Newton-John and Greta Garbo. ... `A star was offered to me 30 years ago,' he said, `and I said, No then. But I've changed my views.'" I do not know all the celebrities mentioned in the above quote, but I do know that they were stars of worldliness and not of godliness. On first thought it would seem surprising that the Hollywood crowd would want a preacher's star in its crown. The newspaper went on to quote on that: "`I doubt there is anyone in Hollywood who has been seen, heard or enjoyed by more people than Billy Graham,' said Johnny Grant, Hollywood's honorary mayor and chairman of the Walk of Fame Committee. Grant said that the committee voted unanimously to give Graham the honor after he was nominated last year by friends who paid the $4,800 fee." This is the way the accommodation game is played. I won't protest your filth if you don't protest my star. Billy Graham On Abortion: on ABC's "Good Morning America" (GMA) (9/5/91), Graham, when asked the Christian position on abortion, said: "… there is a Christian position, I think. But I'm not prepared to say what it is." And, again two weeks later on GMA (9/19/91), Graham said: "But there are occasions when abortion is the only alternative" (although he didn't say when it is okay to snuff out innocent, unborn human life). (Reported in the 2/22/93 Christian News.) We should not be surprised, then, to learn that Graham also holds to Rome's false gospel of baptismal regeneration! The following quote is from an article written in October of 1961 after Graham gave an interview to Lutheran clergyman Wilfred Bockelman, who was then the associate editor of The Lutheran Standard: (Emphasis added.) "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me" (10/10/61 The Lutheran Standard). Bockelman said, "One would assume that, as a Baptist, Dr. Graham would be opposed to infant baptism." Bockelman not only found this not to be the case, but that Graham's wife, Ruth, and all their children but the youngest, were baptized as infants. (Reported in the Summer 1991 Dorea, pp. 9-10.) - Never mind that the Catholic sacrament of the Mass is the greatest attack ever on the finished work of Christ (cf. Heb. 10:19-22), Graham thinks the Mass is not only beautiful, but that it is clear in the gospel!: "This past week I preached in the great Catholic cathedral a funeral sermon for a close friend of mine who was a Catholic, and they had several Bishops and Archbishops to participate. And as I sat there going through the funeral Mass, that was a very beautiful thing, and certainly straight and clear in the gospel. There was a wonderful little priest that would tell me when to stand and when to kneel and what to do" (O Timothy, Vol. 10, Issue 9, 1993, pp. 16-17). Billy Graham On Bill And Hilary Clinton: A 1993 article from the Houston Chronicle quoted Billy Graham's favorable comments about left wing liberal President(s) Bill & Hillary Clinton: "President Bill Clinton would make a great evangelist, the Rev. Billy Graham told U.S. News & World Report in a recent interview. … Graham said he was impressed with Clinton's charisma and 'with some of the things he believes. … From a biblical point of view, we should be headed in the direction of goodness and righteousness, away from crime and immorality,' Graham said, 'and towards one's neighbors who are in need. I'm encouraged by the emphasis President Clinton and Hillary are putting on that.'" Like what? Putting homosexuals in the military or helping to abort your neighbor's baby? Or perhaps Clinton's enthusiasm towards the New World Order? That Graham should have any kind words at all for a couple who represent the antithesis of biblical "goodness," "righteousness," and "morality" is bad enough, but for Graham to think that the Clintons are emphasizing these virtues exhibits a heretofore unprecedented level of ignorance and/or self-deceit on Graham's part. Graham attended a recent prayer breakfast in which Clinton participated. Senator Kerry read Jn. 3:1-21 (skipping verse 16) and said Christ was speaking of "spiritual renewal" and that "in the spirit of Christ … Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Christian" were meeting and "there is renewal … with a new President and Vice President. …" Billy Graham added, "I do not know a time when we had a more spiritual time than we've had today." Billy Graham On An Afterlife: ``Somebody once asked me, ... `Will there be golf courses in heaven?' I said, `If they're necessary for our happiness, they'll be there.' '' -- 1994 interview with Life magazine. Billy Graham's Use Of Rock Groups: Dr. Billy Graham uses rock groups to draw crowds for his crusades (see 6/1 & 8/1 CCs). Dr. Gordon Sears writes (8/24 letter): "I was sent a copy of Billy Graham's paper this week. He made the statement: 'The message--the Gospel of Jesus Christ--is timeless, but the packaging for the message needs to change according to the culture'. This was in reference to the use of rock groups, etc. Isn't it strange that for years, missionaries have said that the Gospel lifts the cultures of paganism up and changes lives, but now the opposite is taking place?" found at: http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/11-1-96.html Billy Graham Believes Pets Will Go To Heaven: Author Richard O'Connor says famed evangelist Billy Graham agrees with him that pets go to heaven. "When asked if animals go to heaven, Graham replied, `I think God will have prepared everything for our perfect happiness' in heaven. If it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.' If Billy Graham believes our pets go to heaven, that's good enough for me." Pets aren't "just animals," said O'Connor, author of "In Memory of a Special Dog" and "In Memory of a Special Cat." "And anyone who thinks they are has never owned an animal. Many pet owners are absolutely devastated when their pet dies. People really need to know that their pets survive death -- and they do. Their pets go to heaven and they will see them again." The idea that an animal's spirit survives beyond death isn't new. Egyptians worshiped cats as gods and their bodies were mummified for the afterlife. O'Connor says Francis of Assisi believed pets survive death and are rewarded by God. Illustrious writer and veterinarian James Herriot of "All Creatures Great and Small" fame also believed pets go to heaven. Once, an elderly woman admitted she was afraid she'd never see her dogs and cats again. "I'm absolutely certain of one thing. Wherever you are going, they are going too," he told her. (National Enquirer, 10-16-1998, www) Dick could be fibbing, but if Billy actually said pets go to Heaven when they die he is either senile or he said it to make people feel good. Either way he needs to shut his mouth. If he is senile he has no business speaking and if he says idiotic things like this he needs to shut up. He is doing exactly what YAHWEH said preachers would do in the apostasy of the last days -- tickle the ears of backslidden believers (2 Tim. 4.3,4). It must be remembered that Billy Graham did not become a superstar televangelist because he was blessed by YAHWEH. He became a superstar because he was blessed by the devil. When Billy started holding his tent revival meetings in Los Angeles just after World War II he received help from Randolph Hearst. Hearst told his editors to "puff Graham" which meant to give him favorable coverage. He made Graham a superstar through his newspapers. Soon other powerful men backed Graham and Billy preached what the backsliders and apostates wanted to hear. He told them that the Roman Catholic Church was a true church and that Catholics who got saved at his rallies should go back to their churches. He preached ecumenicalism hard and heavy and had men from numerous denominations and religions on stage with him. He became a powerful force in the satanic ecumenical movement. -------------------------------------------------- Graham Revisits Florida Roots The Rev. Billy Graham slipped into the North Florida town of Palatka on Sunday - where he was baptized and ordained more than 60 years ago - to see a new mural of himself and meet with friends. About two dozen people came by City Barber Shop to visit the ailing 82-year-old evangelist, who is being treated as an outpatient at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville. Graham was baptized in nearby Silver Lake in 1938 and ordained at Palatka's Peniel Baptist Church the next year. "I won't tell you what's wrong with me because I'm not sure I know myself," he told the crowd, adding that he is getting better a little at a time." Graham has Parkinson's disease. Rev. Billy Graham identifies with the Southern Baptist Convention. The Tampa Tribune -------------------------------------------------- Billy Graham is now semi-retired and has been succeeded by his son, Franklin Graham (author of Rebel with a Cause.)   genewardsmith (genewardsmith) New member Username: genewardsmith Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 172.196.185.57 Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 11:27 am:        So what's your point--Billy Graham is evil because he is not running a cult?}   drumladd (drumladd) New member Username: drumladd Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 198.51.179.254 Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 3:07 pm:        alphaomega-- So in your opinion, Billy Graham is a crook, liar, etc Have you ever been to his crusades? Last time I went to one (1998- Tampa) he said: All have sinned J.C. is the only way to heaven. You must ask Jesus into your heart and save you from your sins. You must commit to living a life for Him (Jesus). Sounds ok to me. And all that Catholic stuff you mentioned just goes to show that Graham could look past religious sterotypes and actually be loving and kind to people. Slandering Catholics in the press doesn't do any good, does it? You probably think I was bought by Rome, too. The Hollywood Star is an obvious award: Billy Graham is probably the single greatest reason that church is on TV at all. He has had influence on Christian media like no other. If I hear you right, Catholicism is a cult, contemporary Christian music is evil, and Billy Graham is a cultist. Funny, when his crusades go on the air, I never have seen a number asking for money-- only prayer!! I've never seen him peddle his books or mention buying his books during a sermon. Wouldn't a false guy try to fleece people? Geez, his crusades are FREE for crying out loud. He has no church that he leads, no doctrine he forces on people, no "worship-me" attitude-- what do you want???   mikko (mikko) Intermediate Member Username: mikko Post Number: 171 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.242.21.100 Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 4:40 pm:        they send out letters for donations , and why do they do these crusades so far and in between ??? i understand he is older now but its always been like that ?? why doesnt he renounce the masons ? and why did he say catholics buddists and muslims are saved ? does he attend a church anywhere ??? ask Jesus into your heart ??? what about preaching repentance ???   thedeathparade (thedeathparade) New member Username: thedeathparade Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 207.38.211.254 Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 3:57 pm:        wait wait wait, how many of you people hating on the LGBT community are actually gay or bi? i'm guessing none because when i read all those posts i started to sneeze; i'm allergic to bullshit, you see. let me tell you, most gays are born gay. there are some i'm sure that are environmentally influenced, but i'd say 99 percent are born that way. let's talk about logic for a bit. it's so damn easy to dog on gays for "choosing the wicked life" and "consciously spiting god" at all hours of the day. why the hell would ANYONE choose to be ostracized from the family, terrorized at school, physically harassed and abused by haters, have their very integrity torn to shreds on lovely sites as this, be subjected to a host of legal sanctions and admonishments? let me tell you, no one chooses to be gay. you are who you are. i was a devote protestant for years and years, was a catholic for some more years and years. i've heard the word, i've FELT the word; all that pray and the gay is gone is BULLSHIT. i believed until the tears came in loads, i asked for deliverance from my sexuality, i demanded to be "normal", i repented and repented and renounced and renounced, i was searching every christian corner for something to separate me from what i learned to be self-hating for. it never came. don't even try and say that gays can be prayed away because it seems to be all talk no walk for you people. it's worked out extremely convenient for you that you were born heterosexual, and can speak so self-assured on that platform. you dont have a single clue how it is to be gay. none of you probably will ever know the sting of the father's belt as he screams homophobic anthems, none of you will be turned away at the blood drive because gays are apparently universally unfit to help others. none of you probably walk down the street minding your own business, trying to fight that sinking feeling you get when you think a rock is hurtling towards your head. you think gay is this constant life of decadence and/or glam but it's not always that. for a lot of gays it's never that. to have a bunch of fundamentalist christians "explain" homosexuals, is like having a german "explain" japan-life, is like a vegan explaining the delicious flavours of meat, is like a virgin explaining sex, is like a four year old explaining the burden of filing tax returns, is like blue telling you how it is being red. you don't know. leviticus is filled with a lot of things; women menstruating, fabric policies, beard trimming policies, etc. where is the outrage over those other abhorrent acts against god? why not be the maverick christian and fuel the new crusade against people who wear polyester/cotton hybrid shirts? why should they get away with their wicked deviance? --- and that point about gays not reproducing. fine, if gays only pass their gay genese through reproduction. then let's see how well it works out if all the gays in the world decided to 'straight it up" and started having kids like no tomorrow. we'd have such a boom in gay births that the community would be tripled easily. i'd guess that is not any fundamentalist christians's wet dream so then ask yourself what is it that you want. 1) we don't want the gays acting straight, that would lead to too many gays. 2) we don't want the gays having sex with each other, that would be disgusting. 3) we don't want gays to just sit around doing nothing, that would be idle and suspicious. what the hell do you want us to do exactly? stop quoting the bible at us and just say what it is you want. do you want a war? do you want gays to move somewhere else? Budapest, perhaps? do you want gays to wear a star on our collars so that you can identify us instantly and decidedly cross the street before we get within four meters of you? do you want us to pay more tax dollars so those who choose can have medcially insured sunglasses prescribed so you don't have to see us? do you want us to tirelessly work to build christian pyramids for you? do you want our children torn away from our homes during a midnight raid? do you want us to pile together on a train slowly moving through the countryside until it drops us off at a securely isolated location, no longer a bother for anyone? do you want us to commit mass suicide and consequently anger your god in that regard? and not to mention the dollars spent on federal clean-up. all i know is that i try to be a better person day by day; certainly not perfect but i'm working my way towards a more peaceful, more compassionate, more honest, and less vitriolic life. being more aware of who i am and where i'm going, being more resourceful when others need help, being there for friends who need it, being respectful/fascinated/impressed by the cultures and the knowledge of the world. homosexuality is only a single fragment of my larger identity. how 'bout canadian, how 'bout american, how 'bout new yorker, how 'bout musician, how 'bout capricorn, how 'bout he-who-loves-thai-food-and-pineapple-pizzas, how 'bout he-who-loves-good-books, how 'bout he-who-would-love-a-back-yard-and-a-bigger-home, how 'bout he-who-is-paying-off-college-loans. don't reduce us to caricatures. and no, i don't wait in my car lecherously staring at young lads by a park somewhere. although apparently, the 1950s thought i would. go figure.   david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 353 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.128.41 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 3:23 am:        We are concieved in sin true. No one has a gene that makes them gay,alcoholic,adulterous,a fornicator,a liar,a thief,a murderer, a witch,lascivious,greedy,glutonous,etc. Get the point? Excuses,excuses,excuses. I used to be an alcoholic.I was not born with that propensity.There is no alcoholic gene. No gay gene.No Liers gene.No murderers gene. That is phsycological bullshit. Wake up folks and get with reality.The world has handed us a plate full of excuses.Oh,pity me.I was born this way.NOT! I'm sorry I come off in an antagonistic manner but this nonsense drives me crazy.(must be an anger gene)LMAO Dave}   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 154 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.50 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 4:05 am:        Dave, I am not saying a gene. I believe that a person could be born with a hereditary demon from a parent. The would cause a tendancy for a person to participate in those practices. Many of the posters above seem to be born with a hereditary demon of criticism. They have a gift of accusation. Erich   mikko (mikko) Intermediate Member Username: mikko Post Number: 203 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.242.21.100 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 12:11 pm:        its called spirit of whoredoms or perverse spirit ,there are alot of unclean spirits influencing and oppressing people   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 159 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.161.171.210 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 9:12 pm:        Mikko, There are many demons out there! The truth would be shocking for most Christians who have never been involved with any deliverances. Erich   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 160 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.161.171.210 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 9:25 pm:        Dave, Your post is fine. What really disturbs me is the critical nature of some of these posts in FactNet towards established ministries. I'm the type that will always defend Billy Graham and Jack Hayford before believing petty accusations against them, especially by the 12 Tribe Guys. My problem is in controlling my pen when I see unsubstantiated garbage against ministers, and even the foolish website against the Baptist denomination that John alerted me to. I have to take a deep breath, read what has been written, pray to comprehend what is being said, and respond under God's direction. Erich   gawain (gawain) New member Username: gawain Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.17.150.253 Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 3:37 am:        Nobody knows who is saved or not. That's clear from the NT. Let's drop the obsession with sex, OK? The only mention of same-sex relations is in a letter by Paul that many Biblical scholars consider to not be by him. (Paul also justified slavery & said women shouldn't teach). ON THE OTHER HAND, the Bible is FULL of references to social justice & peacemaking, topics we hear nothing about from most of these "godly" ministers. After all, that might rile the Establishment & they might get crucified.   gawain (gawain) New member Username: gawain Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.17.150.253 Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 3:51 am:        I don't believe that any institution merits undue respect just because it's established. You should read what the Jew Jesus had to say about the scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites, & money-changers! (You guys DO read the Bible, right?) "I come not to bring peace, but division." "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into a ditch". Religious credentials don't mean a thing. Jesus had none. "By their fruits you shall know them." "My way or the hiway" may seem secure & comforting, but you don't really know whom God saves, how, or why. "Remove the plank from your own eye before you remove the speck from your brother's". "Judge not, lest you be judged."   david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 371 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.120.131 Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:26 pm:        gawain; The context in which you use "judge not"is out of line. We are to judge without being judgemental towards any one. This is called discernment and can keep us from falling under the spell of errent teaching. We are to judge according to the Word of God. I say that the decisions made by the supreme court of the united states concerning the display of the Ten Commandments is wrong. I have just made a judgement yet it is true. I say that murder is wrong.I have just made a judgement.Can you say that I should not now "judge?" Text and context need to be understood topicaly so we can make wise and informed judgements. Dave}   mikko (mikko) Intermediate Member Username: mikko Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.242.21.100 Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 2:02 pm:        there was a scripture somewhere ''be careful when men speak well of you " I'm sorry but Graham has watered down his message these days ,his beliefs have changed ..he said it himself on Larry King show this week (taping aprox.June 16th) he didnt say Jesus was the only way . he did the political correct phrase " its not up to me to judge"   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 273 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.33 Posted on Saturday, July 09, 2005 - 2:25 pm:        There are more Scriptures against the homosexual lifestyle then just Romans 1. Ok now...Stop the accusation of me being arrogant stuff right now! If God says homosexuality is sin, then homosexuality is sin, it does not matter what I think, it matters what God thinks, what Scripture says regarding homosexuality. The Christian is not being arrogant. What a terrible lifestyle to be stuck in! I personally have seen the consequences of homosexuality. Four people I knew are dead. Three others have aids and will die shortly. They have broken faith with Christianity, one, a graduate of Angelus Bible College, another, was a counselor for the 700 Club, and another was one semester away from graduating from a Pentecostal Bible College in Portland. Some were married and then divorced, with kids, leaving broken families. There are many, many, physical, and spiritual consequences for this lifestyle. Thedeathparade has given his interpretation, now let me give you mine. They will throw out the word arrogant to you as a defense everytime they can. They are filled with hatred for anything and anyone against their lifestyle. They are filled with mockery against God and His ways from the Scripture. Ex. One sang a Chrisitian song titled, "He touched me..." They know that the practice of homosexuality is condemned by Scripture. Many know the Scriptures against their lifestyle better then a Christian, and I mean it. They do not want to change, they like it too much. They may act and look like Franc from the movie Father of the Bride, but do not let their artsy mannerisms fool you, Short is nicer. They have been caught by spiritual forces in this lifestyle from a very early age, and they do not have dreams like a hetrosexuals have dreams. Under the principalities, under Satan, these spiritual forces have control of the person, some are hereditary spirits, some are different forms of lust spirits, and some are homosexual spirits. In this spiritual way the person has a tendency towards homosexuality. Can a spiritual entity infect physical, therefore the genes? There have been stories of homosexuals becoming Christians and stopping their homosexuality, though I have never seen it. Scripture says that with God all things are possible. It is impossible though if the person is reprobate and refuses the remedy.   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 274 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.32 Posted on Saturday, July 09, 2005 - 5:12 pm:        "They", may be a bit of a generalization. I associate with many that are nice to me. I am talking about what actually is in their hearts, hidden from people, and the attitude of hatred will come up if their lifestyle is challenged. The fact is my writing style may be a bit harsh to try to wake some of these guys up. Too many Christians are soft and convey TOLERANCE on the subject. I'm a Christian, I believe in hell, and the Bible teaches that if you keep this lifestyle up you will die and go there. If you really don't believe in any of the religious aspects I'm talking about then take a time out a minute for goodness sakes and use your brain. You don't want to die at 39-50! Why aren't you guys even safe about what you are doing? I'm tired of seeing the posters plastered up around where I work at from the homosexual community members that have some brains left, telling you idiots basically, Heh dummies you need to remember to practice safe sex or you're going to die! or Duh, if you are HIV positive remember to tell your partner! Use a little common sense and get out of Thedeathparade.   gsrh (gsrh) Member Username: gsrh Post Number: 69 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 24.14.14.209 Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 10:55 am:        Billy Graham's Daughter Arrested http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Graham_Daughter_Arrested.html   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 282 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.51 Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 12:36 pm:        Billy Graham's, (59 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER!!!!!!!), was arrested for getting mad at her husband and trying to choke him in a parking lot. This is a proof that Billy Graham, 86 years old, is a crook and a liar???????? I don't know it is beyond me how people will stretch to smear someone!   mikko (mikko) Intermediate Member Username: mikko Post Number: 227 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.242.21.100 Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 3:25 pm:        i seen that news but that has nothing to do with Billy   easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 283 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.51 Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 6:50 pm:        Neither does taking a couple of words that Ruth Graham said 50 years ago and writing a long newspaper article about it. These 12 Tribe guys just go over the top!   gsrh (gsrh) Member Username: gsrh Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 24.14.14.209 Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 8:14 pm: