| Author | Message | ||
     hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
A primary thing many of you, if not most, are reacting to is that God has spoken; and in HIS sovereignty has supplied a sufficiently reliable account of that: The Canon of Scripture. To anyone holding this conviction, I say: "Be strong and let your heart take courage, all you who wait for and hope for and expect the Lord!" Psalm 31:24 & "For those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed" - 1 Sam 2:30 Also, it is clear in scripture that God condemns same-sex sexual relations as sin, just as he condemns extra-marital or pre-marital sexual relations that are heterosexual. That was another basic idea of the original "IMPORTANT ARTICLE" thread, and this is another biblical truth so many of you are really reacting to, though many red herrings are thrown about and the smoke screens arise. You can bring up as many apostates/professors/false teachers (just because yu say yur Christian, we'll lets just say it may well be a big fib, who knew - actually Christ predicted many false teachers would come in the name of Christ) who use the Christian name and even examples of actual poor Christian leaders as you will, but this excuse for unbelief will be revealed as self-will by consuming fire. God has reserved for himself those who have not kneeled to Idols and HIS truth will stand in the end. This verse is appropriate: "But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God)and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed) - [all of these shall have]their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death. Isaiah 30:33 & Rev 21:8. (The Amplified Bible) (parenthesis)= additional phases of meaning included in the original word, phrase, or clause of the original language. [bracket] = justified words not actually expressed in the immediate original text | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Notwithstanding all of GGWO's notable erroneous teachings it is also notable that the lion's share of people frequenting this forum have problems with the Authority of Scripture and it's proclamations against sin. Talk about going from the oven to the frying pan, or is it the other way around, how's that go?. Many are using the error of GGWO to further their own unbelief & agenda, that much is apparent as we see these colors revealed in more and more of the 'regulars'. Basically the ones that only focus on condemnation on persons without really addressing truth issues (maybe only superficially); they do not appear to own much of a positive confession of what is right, i.e. scriptural truth; they only seem to know what is wrong; and that is mostly all they express; but even in that they do not even seem to be able to articulate the foundations of why they were caught into error; therefore open to more and perhaps worse error. Surely in some cases, the problem and reason for this conspicuous lack of adherance to God's Word is that people are decieved into thinking they are believers when they are in fact in a state of unbelief. - ye must be born again. (Message edited by hadasa on June 27, 2007) | ||
| dancer2 Junior Member Username: dancer2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 62.248.159.155 |
Again, FWDIM, I agree with the following statement entirely: Also, it is clear in scripture that God condemns same-sex sexual relations as sin, just as he condemns extra-marital or pre-marital sexual relations that are heterosexual. I think I made this clear, also confessing that as a hetero I have been guilty of the second offense. God bless those of you who have never even mentally sinned in this way: you have the right to throw stones! As for the rest of us... Until we are able to stomp out all extra-marital heterosexuality (any Jack the Ripper wh0re killers left here?) we have no justification for going on the warpath against homosexuals. Hate crimes are wrong, and churches which encourage a special level of hatred towards those who indulge in particular victimless sinful practices themselves become guilty of a number of cardinal sins in the process. Hasada, as this board closes, goodbye to you as well. May God protect you and yours from all the evils of sexual temptation, and may you find his perfect will for your life as you strive to know him better each day. Sincerely, D2 | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
D2 drones on: "you have the right to throw stones!" "we have no justification for going on the warpath against homosexuals. Hate crimes are wrong, and churches which encourage a special level of hatred towards those who indulge in particular victimless sinful practices themselves become guilty of a number of cardinal sins in the process." what, D2, if you repeat a lie long enough people will believe it right, or maybe you will? 'throwing stones', 'warpath', 'hate crimes', 'special level of hatred'......... The only thing a few of us have said that got people slandering and maligning us is: 1.) the Scriptures are providentially supplied by God and are inspired by the Holy Spirit and have been kept sufficiently reliable to this day. 2.) It just so happens that in those scriptures, homosexuality is condemned as sin. Fundamentally that is all that has been said on these points. So you agree on the second point, D2, good for you, ever think with that big void head of yours that there are other people I'm talking to; So it may be a truth that God condemns homosexuality as sin but in the coalition's book it's a crime to mention the fact that God condemn's homosexuality as sin; yeah that makes sense????? course coming in and proposing to teach us all bout the pauline letters when your basically shaky on the integrity of scripture is laughable, that tippped us to the fact that we got us a teacher here, abeit apostate; besides you purposely misrepresent others who do hold to tenants 1 & 2 above which proves the absence of any spiritual integrity. God, thru the finished work has made it possible for anyone to live in sexual purity, so I'll trust that and continue to do just fine. And don't twist everything people have to say and then wish me well, ok sap. | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
"victimless sinful practices" D2's moniker for homosexuality who says so D2, you or God? victimless sinful practices; bit of an oxymoron there..... all sin has it's victims otherwise God wouldn't condemn it as sin; and individuals are parts of society so the victims would not just include those immediately involved, never da brain don't work | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
love the sinner but define the sin; that's real love to the sinner d-dd-d-d2 and again that's all that has been said; no "hate crimes there"; only hate I see is in the purposefull misrepresentation and attitudes against those who merely call what Christ calls sin in any clear understanding of the reliable scriptures | ||
| dancer2 Junior Member Username: dancer2 Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 62.248.159.155 |
da brain don't work That's a fair assessment of your posts this week. You are really starting to remind me of the knight in the Holy Grail flick saying, "Come here and I'll bite off your knee caps!" Homosexuality does go in the same category as fornication and masturbation. Yes, the Bible says not to do it. No, it is not condemned as a worse level of sin than "normal" extra-marital sexuality. All I'm saying is that those whose temptations run towards their own gender shouldn't be painted with a separate brush than other sexual sinners. That's the essence of every anti-homophobic statement I've ever made here, and I challenge you to prove me wrong at that. all sin has it's victims otherwise God wouldn't condemn it as sin; and individuals are parts of society so the victims would not just include those immediately involved, never Hasada, when you sit alone and massage your genitals pretending that the stimulation is coming from elsewhere, THAT'S SIN! Admit it: you have sinful tendencies! Who is the victim though? Primarily just yourself, but I'll admit, the rest of us do suffer a bit from your progressive loss of ability to distinguish between inter-personal realities and your personal erotic fantasy world. When I speak of "victimless sinful practices" I am not denying that the person committing the sin is his/her own victim, or that people living around him/her are somewhat affected. This is the case with alcoholism, prescription drug abuse, erotic self-gratification, gambling addictions, shopping addictions, private use of illegal drugs, coveting and God knows how many other non-ideal lifestyle matters. The point is that these fall into a fundamentally different category than perverted priests banging altar boys or robbing a convenience store, or even using pirated software. There isn't a separate individual or group whose rights are being directly violated. Now there may be some redneck (not necessarily in present company) who says, "H€ll, they're violating my rights, because when I see them on the street I get sick to my stomach!" My point would be that in that case the problem lies not with the gays but with the redneck. He could just as easily be offended by hearing people talk to each other in languages he doesn't understand, or by guys wearing their hair too long, or by people around him not having "normal" colored skin, or... FYI, none of those things are sinful. The reaction he has to them is not moral outrage but xenophobia. Trying to pass that off as moral outrage is a cheap excuse, and a true Christian church should not help make such excuses. As we can't agree to disagree, and as it now seems that what you worship as God may be just the personification of your personal prejudices, I will refrain from wishing you well. Keep twisting in the wind until you are able to call out to a God that is beyond your preconceptions to come and cut you down. (That's speaking the truth in love.) D2 | ||
| whatsup New member Username: whatsup Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.61.30.105 |
I disagree that homosexuality is not condemned at a worse level than some other sins. Romans 1 says that God gives them over to a reprobate mind, and that it goes against nature itself. It is a total perversion of God's design in creation You like to say there are no degrees of sin, but you argue that there are degrees of "victims" in sin. In doing that you admit that some sin ( such as priest raping altar boys) is worse than others (such as alcoholisim). You cannot compare being offended at seeing gays on the street with being offended at someone's skin color either. One is how God created someone and is natural, the other is the total opposite. It is certainly not just personal prejudice. Contrary to most opinions on this board, there is a right and wrong, a black and white, and a real living God who has real standards for human behavior. Rationalize it all you want, it does not change the reality of it. | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Clever, you used my own 'da brain don't work' against me, quite ingenious, checkmate??? what's next, maybe 'I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off me, and sticks to you' monty python, my word, another dweeb; get with that other guy with the star trek figurines your arguments are only superior in your own, and similiarly decieved mind(s) what's next, the devastating 'oh yeah' | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
hadasa. duh | ||
| hadasa New member Username: hadasa Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
d2 says: "All I'm saying is that those whose temptations run towards their own gender shouldn't be painted with a separate brush than other sexual sinners." no spineless weasel, that is not all you have been saying, what you have been saying is things like it's 'hate speech' to merely say that God in scripture has defined homosexuality as sin and that people who say so are fools along with those who believe scripture is reliable and can be commonly understood on such issues; i.e. that there are well defined standards or well defined moral absolutes. and yes the point has been made that scripture would teach that some sins (in the sense of their potential for national and individual devastation) are worse than others; i.e. Sodom and Gommorrah & Romans 1 & etc. keep wriggling though mr. nonsense | ||
| dancer2 Junior Member Username: dancer2 Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 62.248.159.155 |
Hasada, reading your other stuff I have to ask, are you really "out" yourself? As I once crudely said to another poster, I really don't know who you are or what foreign objects you have stuck in which body cavities, and the level of bile you spout is making me curious. Whatsup, in this last few days I don't want to lose an attitude of personal respect towards each other. In answer to your Romans 1 reference, the simple answer is that Paul considered the prevalence of homosexuality among the leaders of the Roman empire to be part of God's judgment on them for their other sins. That implies that Paul knew (probably second hand) that "gay" life is far from easy or fun for those stuck in it. It does not make homosexual acts worse than other sexual sins. As to Soddom and Gommorah, they were slated for destruction before the angels got there, and Genesis doesn't directly tell us why. The peak of their wickedness was when they wanted to commit homosexual rape of strangers in their towns. That is obviously sinful not only for the homosexuality, but for the rape and for the element of attacking strangers without provocation. Nothing in that portion proves that homosexuality itself is worse than other sins. Prostitution is sinful, but IMHO Jack the Ripper was more sinful than the prostitutes he killed. Is there anyone here who fundamentally disagrees with me on that? | ||
| whatsup New member Username: whatsup Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.61.30.105 |
Well, D2, I disagree with your views on Romans 1...and as I posted just now on another thread...when it speaks of God giving people over to a reprobate mind, it goes right into describing homosexuality. Certain sins affect the soul more than others. I Corinthians 6:18. I don't want to repeat my whole other post, but that is the gist of it | ||
| lmao New member Username: lmao Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
Didn't Jesus pretty much equalize all sins when he said that looking with lust was the same as the act of adultery? Did he then not proceed to pay for them all at the cross? Yes we should do all we can to keep ourselves and our families from the perversions of a sinful society. As Christians, we should hold church leaders to high moral standards and while we should not allow adulterers, homosexuals, drug addicts or criminals in the pulpit, we should do all we can to express Christ's love to them and help them the best we can. | ||
| cordell Member Username: cordell Post Number: 84 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
LMAO while I have a lot of respect for you, and while agreeing that Jesus died for all kinds of sin--he did not equalize them--here is an example in his own words: Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. If all sins were equal, how could the sin of Judas be greater than the sin of Pilate? And again: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. So was the one city more responsible and their rejection of the gospel a greater sin? How about this: The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. The sin of the generation to whom Christ spoke had the greater sin, no? And: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. If all sins were equal, how would this be possible? | ||
| cordell Member Username: cordell Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
When you think of the passage in the sermon on the mount which you quoted, it's usually a good idea not to lose sight of how Jesus begins this part of the discourse. You could ask, "Is the purpose of Christ to equalize all sin?" I don't think it is based on these words in Matthew's Gospel: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisees, as can be seen elsewhere (Matt.15) like to look for loopholes in the commandments. What Christ did in the Sermon on the Mount was to restore the Law to its true severity and to show its location--in the heart of man. Where does sin begin? Where does the Word convict? His formula is "you have heard it said...but I say unto you". Is he teaching anything new? No. Compare the words of Christ in the Gospel to the words spoken to Cain when he began to hate Abel: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against theeLeave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Here are God's words to Cain: and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lordhad regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. The Lord said to Cain, Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it. Cain spoke to Abel his brother. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him. How did the murder begin? Was it not with Cain's anger with his brother? Now consider this from Deuteronomy speaking of the Decalogue: These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. With these in mind you may want to reconsider that Christ in this sermon sought to equalize sin. | ||
| rjfernalld New member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.125.80 |
"Whenever we find fault with others, we ought to reflect upon ourselves, and to be more severe against sin in ourselves than in others. We ought to be favourable, though not to the sins, yet to the persons, of those that offend, and to restore them with a spirit of meekness, considering ourselves and our own corrupt nature. ... We either are, or have been, or may be, what he is. Let this restrain us from throwing stones at our brethren, and proclaiming their faults. Let him that is without sin begin such discourse as this, and then those that are truly humbled for their own sins will blush at it, and be glad to let it drop." Matthew Henry (just can't stay away, LOL) | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
It wasn't about that, it was about people not tolerating the idea that God has spoken in the inspired, reliable scriptures and that what God clearly says is sin; is sin; it's not hate speech to say the same thing God does. No one would debate that you have to love the sinner yet hate the sin. That's all some people were doing; but people like yourself and D2 and others will continue to slander and miscontrue according to your own deception. | ||
| cordell Member Username: cordell Post Number: 86 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.40.2.121 |
RJ I couldn't agree with M. Henry more. When you deal with individuals who admit their sin and recognize it for what it is Henry sets the right course. For others who desire to make their sin acceptable, normal or un-sinful an entirely different response is necessary, hence Romans 1. | ||
| lmao New member Username: lmao Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
I do tend to over-simplify things. When I said that all sins were equal, I was not trying to make light of sins. I was not sugesting that murder was no worse than anger. On the contrary, anger is as bad as murder just as the above verse says. But regardless, whether my sin is the smallest lie or international terrorism, the same blood paid for them both. However, killing terrorists is not murder. From the verses Cordel quoted above, it seems that God has a tougher standard for those who should know better. He was particularly harsh toward religious leaders like scribes and pharisees. Maybe a big reason so many are watering down there definition of sin is that we Christians rail more against immoral behavior than we do against self-righteousness. Our views are misinterpreted as hate speech and people go too far the other way to counteract it. | ||
| cordell Member Username: cordell Post Number: 87 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
I don't know brother, the way American Christianity has been behaving the past two decades you would think there was no such thing as sin at all. All the popular megachurch guys actually rail against the very mention of the word 'sin'. What American evangelicalism has been emphasizing is our need for 'healing' not our need for forgiveness and righteousness. The verse above, which intends to lead the hearer to understand that sin begins in the heart (like the anger which leads to murder) also intends to lead the same hearer that the law of God is also to be written on the heart--the law that commands us not to murder is double-edged, it also commands us to love and protect life because of the image of God in us. | ||
| rjfernalld New member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.109.253.227 |
After Helen Pike led me to Christ, and I found that He accepted me just the way I was at that moment....it was like an awakening, however small the beginning, of the Holy Spirit's sweet convicting of the smaller "sin" I thought was ok. I mean like, not telling the cashier that she made the wrong change in my favor, like seeing the lady in line at the market leave behind a bag of carrots, that could have easily added to my grocery bag, but running after her to give them to her, that kind of thing. It was gradual awakening to the impact of sin, overt and hidden. It wasn't until I got involved with CHS that I became accepting of the dishonesty he accepted and its gradual increase...and again, in them for "doing" it, and myself being lulled into accepting it. I am not sure this all makes sense, but the nature of sin is real, I know, and I am glad for the experience of awakening twice to the perils of unawareness. God lets us experience the ramifications of whatever sins we allow in our lives, and lets us learn .As for homosexuality, murder, apostasty, etc, God knows who is sinning and who isn't. I am not sure about all I hear that people believe, but God knows who is doing the throwing of stones. I am glad He is charge of the knowing. I c an live with that."Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" John 8 is it? Anyway, just a few thoughts. | ||
| david_munson Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 63.22.232.210 |
I will not post the part of the article I posted in "goodbyes" but here is the link. It is very good news about someones life. How a 'gay rights' leader became straight http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487 It is written by the ex-gay rights leader. Enjoy. } | ||
| lmao New member Username: lmao Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
That was a great article David. Thanks for the link. Two points stood out to me. One was his statement: "Soon, I began to understand things I'd never known could possibly be real, such as the fact that I was leading a movement of sin and corruption – which is not to sound as though my discovery was based on dogma, because decidedly it was not." This is one man's testimony of a point that was made earlier on this thread that God writes his laws on our hearts even if there is little or no external exposure or indoctrination. (I am not sugesting that good morals and values should not be taught) Second is the parallels between his bondage to what he believes to be a counterfeit truth (the homosexual agenda) for sixteen years and my bondage to a counterfeit truth at gg for over twenty years. He said:"Sexual truth can be found, provided we're all willing and driven to accept that our culture sanctions behaviors that harm life. Guilt should be no reason to avoid the difficult questions." He is talking about sexual practices but it could easily be applied to some of the harmful, manipulative, high control practices used at gg where there is guilt associated with asking difficult questions. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
RJ, It's not throwing stones to identify something like homosexuality as sin, just as it is with adultry, murder, stealing, etc; according to the inspired, reliable Holy Canon of Scripture - God's sovereignly preserved living document to man. When Jesus stopped the Pharisees from stoning Mary Magdelene; he didn't turn to her and say adultry was alright; no, Jesus said 'now go and sin no more'. That's the difference; people here act as if they want Jesus to say homosexuality is alright; when Jesus in fact clearly has said the opposite; Jesus, the Word, says it is sin. No one here was throwing stones; there is no evidence that anyone here was doing anything other than loving the sinner yet hating the sin (as regards to homosexuality), it's that simple. As destructive as the sin in question is here. The WEIGHTY ISSUE here is the differing views regarding the Authority and Interpretation of scripture in this Post-Modern time on what should be clear issues . Everyone is allowed their own subjective interpretation that really has no bounds. Jesus also said "the sheep hear MY voice". (Message edited by hadasa on July 03, 2007) | ||
| rjfernalld New member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.161.148.67 |
No thank you ,hadasa, I need no teaching by one such as you who is guilty of the oppression of women even so far as physical violence. You are one of the tiny little men Isabella so rightly speaks of, and I refuse to be taught anything, even if you may be correct, by such a person as you. That is why I left GGWO. Say what you will about me, for it will prove your lack of honesty, Chritian values, and a true heart toward God. Feel free to trash me as you always have. A tiny little man you are, and will continue to be. I accuse you openly and openly refuse your correction. I say to you...hear MY voice. | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Hadasa in all of the scriptures there is less talk of homosexualty as sin than the times you have refered to such scriptures. I say you are harping on the subject a bit. I know a few souls here who are guilty like me of that wonderful sin called adultry. And premarital sex, and my goodness masturbation. As the immortal words of Monty Python we must remember every sperm is sacred. How many times is adultry spoken of in the scriptures? I would imagine a few more times than homosexulty. But yet the homo's are killing our country? Give me a break! If there are 90 million families in this country and 55% end in divorce than its 55 million divorce couples doing the major damage to the American family., The church encourages divorce, destruction of the family. Just today I got a grand taste of how much GGWO cares about family. Oh I could rant from the words of a family member about how they don't care about a 1 year old. But lets not go there.Just evil garbage. My adultry,my sin is horrible. It did more damage to 5 kids (at least 5!) than anything I can compare to the nonsense of what I hear about with the gay community. 2000 people on their feet clapping in surrender believing that when their Pastah says the ministry is more important than your family is a sick twisted freak show. If he says and you say that the Gays are whats doing this country in than Lord knows I am ready to be done in. I rather have my wonderfull wife back, end the ministry and have a pride day at church. At least the grand wizard wouldn't be able to get rid of the lady who had aids. I mean she might give it to somebody, and how about the blacks who sell crack cooocainnnne. Honey can you get me my organic drink, you know it clears the blood?! wink wink, and how about that crazy betch who wants to go on the mission field, can we pack her bags for her Pastor C? Lesbinaism and homusexuilllity iz doing us all in. You know the leader of CAN is a lesbian?! Burch of queers. Get rid of that sound board guy with long hair. I don't care if Scott has more talent than anybody else, he must be gay. I see ya at the bemer sea baby, whose you pastah. And the craddle will rock. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
RJ, It is little wonder that you would make false statements about my personal life when you openly contradict the word of God. Why not stick to the issue for once, i'm not trying to teach 'you' anything; your the one coming on and misrepresenting my posts; so I merely answer them, if what your referring to as trashing is my questioning how you can consider yourself a Christian when you can easily question the inspiration of scripture and go against the Clear Word of God, so be it. But it's hilarious that you use the word trashing because you've called me every Word under the sun and have made various unfounded allegations against me, though recently your using a more 'restrained' tact. Dancer, You have selective criticism, the harping is coming from the other side that seeks to obscure the issues; they are the ones that won't let it go; I am merely answering their diversions and am not 'harping'. Any sane person reading these posts can determine the manner of persons you both are and Dancer I have full sympathy for any family whose daughter you have come in direct contact with. (Message edited by hadasa on July 04, 2007) | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Dancer says: "I don't care if the world hates me or thinks I am crazy....... ......... In a bizarre kind of way I have nobody left. I don't think anybody will be calling me or visiting me." I do not find this difficult to believe; but I am sure in your troubled mind that your not ultimately to blame for that. Poor little dancer, sure he made a few mistakes, but he's such a good person basically standing up for the right and see what he gets, boo hoo. If I were you, I wouldn't be clammering for the judgement seat just yet, there is a fair chance you may be sorely surprised. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Dancer, For a guy who doesn't know if he's still Unitarian (denies the Divinity of Christ) or whatever you actually believe now??; you sure sometimes have a lot to say about Christianity. But we know that the lions share of your presence is talking about how your family life is ripping you up complete with names, over and over again. Ever consider your ex families-in- law don't want their names posted in public, over and over again: GGWO is not responsible as much for where you find yourself; as you may like to think, you are. It's amazing how some people on this forum coddle you. Anything goes as long as your battling GGWO right? throw in getting your ex-families below the belt, too. I'ts all for the right, all for justice. (Message edited by hadasa on July 04, 2007) | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
for RJ: "guilty of the oppression of women" = saying that the inspired reliable scriptures, the Word of God, has clearly spoken on such things as human sexuality. Show me where I have been "oppressing women", ha ha, give me the posts, in context of course. So easy to make these remarks; so hard to back them up. I guess this is what you have to refer to when they your ideas are shown for what they are; unbelief & nonsense, couched in pseudo 'love' for others. As far as oppressing you (women). I'd be perfectly happy to have no further interaction with you again; but it seems some of you lovely "women" are the most 'outspoken' towards some of my posts and the issues at hand. Of course some of you always cloud the real issues and that is merely what I am responding to. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Let's say it one more time: Several threads have resulted from the following simple idea: That the reliable, inspired, sovereignly preserved Holy Canon of Scripture has declared homosexuality, along with murder, rape, and adultry as sin and that our government is making laws that do not acknowledge that fact. No one has said that the Christian does not have the obligation to love the sinner while the Christian's obligation is also to declare what is sin, is sin. Yet people are said to be using 'hate speech'; and 'gay bashing' along with other maligning and slander; with vulgarities. That is simply all this has been about notwithstanding the smoke screens, straw men, red herrings, vulgarities, slander and personal attacks. | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Hadasa, You know I didn't want my family ripped up way before I breathed the word Schaller from my mouth. Iwas very much minding my own business before GGWO came dancing back into my life. You don't know jack about my faith, and you don't know jack about me. Me deny the divinity of Christ? That is pathetic. My theology is closest to English General Baptist than Unitarian.I was ordained as an Evangelical Protestant (Congregationist), worked for several denominations including Epis., Baptist (three different denominations including the SBC), Evangelical Free Church, Lutheran (ELCA), the nightmare GGWO, even Apostolic spin off. My second in the ministry work place was Unitarian Universalist as a youth leader. And if you think modern day Unitarians are a branded anti divinity of Christ your just plain stupid and have no knowledge of the denomination. The majority of the UU congregations don't even approach the subject. There are more tree huggers as theologians than those writing about Jesus divinity in the UUA. Justice? What justice do you think I can find or by my post looking for? i know of none. That is the "still beat your wife?" line. I will not find, nor seek some answer. The answer is him, not them. I don't know a soul on this forum who has held an early codex in his hand other than me. My love of scripture, my love of early Christianity, my love of my Lord Jesus Christ is my starting and ending point. Cuddle me? You got to be kidding me. I am the central target of whipping boys here. Who cuddles? Get a grip. Thats like saying the republicans cuddle Bill and Hillary. You are hell bent on banting on homosexuality most likely out of some issue with your own sexuality. Got some closet item going on? Why would i care about how others feel about their names not being made public when the ministry (from 98 on), the Pastor, and staff openly talked about us from the Pulpit, from Raps, from the radio, to newspaper reporters, etc. I have never heard one of my inlaws go, "we don't want that, don't speak about daughter, our son in law." | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Homosexuals In San Francisco Stage Riotous Protest ~ By E.L. Bynum On Sunday Night September l9, 1993 a group of angry homosexuals and lesbians stormed the Hamilton Square Baptist Church, of San Francisco, California. They were trying to stop the Sunday Night service, because they disapproved of the speaker from the Traditional Family Values Coalition. It is incredible that such a thing could happen in the United States of America. Hamilton Square Baptist Church is a well known Fundamental Baptist Church, with a long history of standing for the truths of the Word of God. The homosexuals vandalized Church property, terrorized women and children, assaulted Church members, and disrupted the services. The police did little or nothing to control the unruly mob for a long time. Finally the riot police arrived and did help to control the situation to some extent. No One Arrested As incredible as it may sound, not one of the unruly mob was arrested. The news media ignored the whole thing. The newspapers refused to print anything about the assault. This shows the unholy bias of the news media. If a group of fundamental Christians had stormed a meeting of homosexuals, you may be sure it would have made the news. The newspapers, the television stations, and the national news media would have made sure that the whole nation knew that Christians were attacking homosexuals. They Are In High Places The homosexuals have achieved incredible power in our nation. They apparently control San Francisco. They sit in high places in Washington, D.C. The President and other office holders in powerful places stand ready to advance the cause of homosexuals and lesbians. Christians had better wake up. Our nation faces revival or ruin, and it may be nearly too late for revival. You may obtain a short recording of the homosexuals pounding on the church doors and attempting to break them down at Hamilton Square Baptist Church during the evening services. Send $3.00 and request the tape. Send the request to: Dr. David Innes, Hamilton Square Baptist Church, 1212 Geary St., San Francisco CA 94109. Read the news release written by Pastor David C. Innes, and you will get the whole incredible story of what took place. cont. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
News Release: Official Statement by Dr. David C. Innes The following events took place on Sunday evening, September 19,1993, revolving around the regularly schedule 6:00 PM Sunday Evening Worship Service of the Hamilton Square Baptist Church, 1212 Geary St., San Francisco, California. Reverend Lou Sheldon, of the Traditional Values Coalition, was invited by the church to be the guest speaker. Only the church's membership and regular attenders were notified of the service, through the church's own Sunday bulletin. No public notice or invitation was made in addition to this. However, in the September 16,1993 edition of the Bay Area Reporter, the meeting was announced in a front page article using intemperate, inflammatory language. A three-by-five ad on page five of the September 15,1993 edition of the San Francisco Sentinel announced a protest of the Sunday night service. The church has no knowledge of how, or from whom they obtained the information. The church received telephone calls during the week prior to the meeting, demanding that our guest speaker should not come. Two people came to the church during that week asking to see the pastor and, speaking to the caretaker, notified him that we could not have Rev. Sheldon as a guest in our church, and that they intended to stop him. The church's pastor, Dr. David C. Innes, made at least four calls to the Northern (Police) Station prior to the meeting, on Saturday and Sunday afternoon regarding the demonstration, expressing his concern for potential problems. He called the Northern Station immediately before the service, and requested more backup police because he felt the situation was not under control. He was informed that no backup would be sent unless requested by police that were present and further, that they had not requested it. Dr. Innes was told, "You must understand. This is San Francisco." Homosexual and lesbian demonstrators began gathering around the church property as early as 5:00 PM. The police were immediately notified by telephone of their presence. As people entered the building, demonstrators handed flyers purporting to be published by the church. These were also placed upon automobile windshields in the immediate area. By 6:00 PM a riot was under way. The rioters assumed complete control of the exterior property and grounds of the church. In spite of several requests to have them removed the officer in charge insisted that everything was under control and that police procedures and regulations would not allow him to do so. At about the time of the beginning of the service, an usher, stationed himself in the courtyard to assist members in gaining entry to the building. The usher witnessed the destruction of church property and notified an officer who turned away and ignored him. The rioters recognized him as a church member, surrounded him and completely denied him any freedom of movement. Continued | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
The day one of them plays normal in this field is the day I get shocked to the point of having a heart attack. I been avoiding repeating my inlaws names, but the Schallers, the staff etc they choose how they play, that have not changed. I don't say their under age kids names. They do. I am guessing because you alluded to Unitarians, your embarrased by your country's founding history, its founding fathers faith, and even men like Jefferson and Adams. Our founding fathers were men, their faith(s) help make this country into what it is, including the strong dynamics of the Baptist and Unitarians. Or better yet you just would like to think as Rich Mullins would say some people believe that Christianity means you live in a perfect little neighborhood where there are no blacks and there are no gays. That is not real Christianity. I may believe adultry is a horrible sin especially from my own experiance, but I don't sit here and blast people who have done it, throw it over and over again, quote multiple illistrations from scripture as a defense of my faith in that belief, and worry myself over pending laws that will never cross the 40th vote of the Senate. I will wake up in a few years with a democrat or ironically a liberal Republican or maybe independent moderate (can we split New York three ways? ). Gay Marriage will be the standard in 10-15 states in some manner, and the Christians of this country will bashing the heck out of one another. The focus remains on the so called enemies, not the perfection that is Christ Jesus. I say Christ, should be the focus. I will not shed a tear if factnet closes. There are to many forums that will speak loudly of GGWO's cult status. To much in printed word, and the internet. I do not care about being the poster child of my former ministry. I worked longer for the Baptist (in some manner all of my adult life), the Universalist (good portion of 12 years)and the Lutherans (geez most of my adult life and i far from a Lutheran). But it seems I have heard somebody else say that if a lie is repeated enough people believe it. I am so far from what people think. I have great kids, My ex wife was and is a wonderful mother, and think highly of her mom. My ex girl friend and I have had a tough time but even that chapter is getting better. But shut up about any of it while it is in the negative and the lies are somehow seem as truth. Not while I have breath in me. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Pastor Charles and Donna McIlhenny were refused entry by the rioters, and told they could not enter the building. The doors were completely blocked by the rioters. Pastor McIlhenny held on to Donna as they began to make their way through the mob who were shouting and screaming in their ears, "You will not enter this church." The rioters assaulted them, pushing and shoving them, seeking to keep them from the front door. One of them grabbed Donna's body, lifting her off the ground, and attempted to pull her back away from the entry. She stretched her arms out for help from a near by police officer who offered no assistance. Her son, seeing she was in trouble, pleaded with the officers to assist her. The officers appeared so overwhelmed by the rioters that they were unable to take control of the situation. Both of her hands were scratched (the skin was broken). Finally, the church's caretaker grabbed her outstretched arms and pulled her through to the door, out of the hands of the rioters. As they made their way past the three police officers at the door, they were pelted by rocks, which also struck the window panes of the entry doors. Several members from Pastor McIlhenny's church also were accosted and had to flee to a side entrance. There they also found the entry blocked and had to remain outside until the riot police arrived and let them in the building. Pastor McIlhenny's son, Ryan and his friend were not able to enter the building. The rioter removed the Christian flag from the flag pole, and attached the gay flag under the U.S. flag. The church's caretaker removed both flags, but a rioter grabbed the gay flag and it was again run up the flag pole and the rope knotted out of reach. When the caretaker, again attempted to remove the gay flag, he was assaulted and hit with eggs. Being pushed back he was unable to reach the flag pole, and returned to the entry of the church. Much of the newly planted landscaping around the flag pole was damaged. One cement bench was pushed over into the fountain by rioters. When the police were notified of this they refused to respond. A second bench was dismantled and the seat thrown over into a light well and destroyed by rioters. The rioters guilty of this vandalism described this wanton destruction of church property as "interior decorating." Paper messages were stuck to the handrails, walls and windows of the building. A single parent, who is a church member, and her six year old daughter were told they could not enter the building. A rioter grabbed her daughter's arm as she was clinging to her mother, and began interrogating her. The mother and daughter finally entered the building by passing through the rioters. The child was crying and terrified. The mother had also brought an elderly friend who was refused entry by the rioters. Twenty minutes passed before she was able to get her friend into the service. Along with these, many others of the elderly and children were terrorized. To our knowledge, riot police were never called in by the officers present. They came only because the guest speaker left the worship service and called 911. The rioters were then removed from the courtyard area of the church property by the riot police. They proceeded to the emergency exit doors on the west side of the auditorium where they pounded and kicked the doors seeking to break them down. This disturbed the service in process that the service had to be temporarily discontinued. The officers present were immediately notified. The pounding was so loud, that an elderly blind woman was terrified, thinking that the sound was gunshots. She began crying, feeling helpless and threatened, and was comforted by nearby members. Due to the forceful nature of the rioters' attempts to break down the doors, one of the exit doors was damaged in a major way, the door jam being broken. Continued | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Rioters continued their demonstration, standing on church property with their megaphone. The rioters then laid down in the intersection of Geary and Franklin, blocking the traffic. The rioters passed out the fraudulent flyers to waiting vehicles and pounded on the vehicles of those attempting to cross the intersection. The police took no action to remove them for approximately ten minutes. A woman demonstrator exposed her breasts to church members present in the area. One woman, a regular attender at our services, and her husband were hindered from entering the building by the rioters who had been moved to the sidewalk. When she entered the building she was so terrified that one of our other ladies had to help her calm down. Another member stood across the street and did not enter because of fear of physical violence. As the service was concluded, the people were split into three groups. All of the children were clinging to the parents, frightened to leave the building. Two groups exited out emergency exits. One group waited, and then exited out the main entrance. The people were shouted at and threatened by the rioters as they made their way to their cars, being called Christian bigots, hypocrites, fascists, homophobes, and other expletives, some obscene. An eight year old retarded girl, upon exiting through the front entrance was so traumatized upon being verbally accosted, that she fell down the steps. The guest speaker was escorted by the police to the church van, as debris pelted him from the rioters. Following his departure the rioters began to depart and the riot police were dismissed. The rioters shouted at the police, "You won't be here all night, but the church (building) will be." Only two or three police officers remained to secure the building Dr. Innes, Rev. Eugene Lumpkin, and the church's associate Pastor with his wife and children remained inside. When this became known to the rioters, they returned in force to the church and began pounding on the front doors. The situation was once again out of control and Dr. Innes called 911 for reinforcements. Continued | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
When the rioters saw the children standing in the lobby, they shouted "We want your children. Give us your children." The police asked us to move away from the entry. Dr. Innes, his associate and family left through another exit. A nine year old boy, was crying in hysterics, "They are after me. It's me they want." He did not calm down until the family was several miles from the building. A rioter broke one of the large address numbers off the face of the building and attempted to remove others unsuccessfully. A citizen's arrest was made on this individual. The person making the citizen's arrest was verbally threatened by other rioters. Officers told us they were informed by the rioters that our meeting was an open, public meeting, and they did not intend to prohibit the entry of the rioters onto our property. The pastor, Dr. Innes, informed the officers that this was a regularly scheduled church worship service and was not, as such, an open, public meeting, in the secular sense. He further informed the officers that no public notice had been made by the church inviting the public. The police later insisted that they were bound by the rioters' claim that this was an open, public meeting and not a worship service.. We were informed by the police, that due to the city's police regulations and policies, the police were not allowed to enforce the law regarding the disturbance of church worship services and the presence of rioters on church property. Police estimates the number of rioters were approximately 75, although actual counts indicated a number closer to 100. In spite of all this malicious disruption, not a single arrest was made by police outside of one citizen's arrest. The church's property was not secured, and the fundamental rights of the worshippers were not protected because, we were told, "The Board of Supervisors would never support the measures necessary to do so." Upon leaving for the final time, several of the rioters said, "We will be back." Numerous obscene and threatening telephone calls have been received at the church following the riot. End | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Hadasa, I have trouble really believing your a believer. No I am just kidding I don't make judgement calls like you. Judgement seat? I am shaking. There are many people, many things I have trouble accepting. But my faith that I am saved and that I am safe from your fire and lakes in hades is not one of those things I fret over. I may worry myself sick over my children, my friends, and people I don't know, but Jesus I am complete in trusting at the end of the day will make this right. I am just an inpatiant •••••••. I am confident when I am absent from this body I will be present with the Lord and he will not be throwing me into existance you think is fashioned for anti fundies, and gays. Go jump in your own lake would ya? I am sure Jerry Falwell is in a better place with the liberals, the gays, the people he would argue were bound to hell. I would imagine him and Ms. Flynt have already hit if off well. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Dancer, I am not exactly sure what is wrong with you in a host of levels, but you cannot grasp reality or issues; the only thing I can make out about you is that you are extremely self-absorbed; though you would declare the opposite. You may or may not continue but I wish no discussion. I only acknowledged you because you ignorantly interjected yourself and I attempted to help you see the actual issue of the discussion - to my folly. | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
A would have to admit now I stand corrected. Maybe we should resort to name calling. I can see you on your feet clapping for Pastah, writing down doctrine, and damn don't worry the queers will not come get you. Oh I didn't expect an answer about your beliefs. You be the first to hide behind your lack of honesty and openess. Wasn't it Adams that had a law concerning traitors enacted? Don't worry I am sure Abigal would protect your sorry arse. | ||
| shat_happens New member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.1.234 |
Take in your daily dose of doctrine and none of this would have happened to you people...but no you all had to go against carl! http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2006/03/eat-of-word-daily.html | ||
| sidethorn Junior Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 68.32.127.9 |
The real issue is too many people calling themselves think they know much more than they really do and then judge and condemn others for not having the same exact beliefs as they do. Carl did it and so have some other posters on this board. People are responsible to respect the Canon of Scripture and follow what the Word of God is really saying. But a lot of contraversy has started from those who pass of their own personal beliefs as the Canon of Scripture and then condemn others who disagree with their personal beliefs as sinful people who refuse to accept the Canon of Scripture. These are arrogant, self righteous, self appointed Pharisees that judge and condemn others out of their own personal beliefs and ego. Then they are the first to say that they stand up for Christ and against sin while others presumably don't. These arrogant judgers sadly are a big part of Christian Fundamentalism today. Thats why its better to follow no man or man made program. Follow Christ. Love Christ's people but don't blindly accept everything they tell you. Follow Christ and let Him shine a light to your path and expose falsehood. See you later. SIDETHORN | ||
| shat_happens Junior Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.1.234 |
http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2006/07/taking-one-for-team.html | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
. | ||
| hadasa Junior Member Username: hadasa Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.58.164.118 |
Sidethorn says: "But a lot of contraversy has started from those who pass of their own personal beliefs as the Canon of Scripture and then condemn others who disagree with their personal beliefs as sinful people who refuse to accept the Canon of Scripture. These are arrogant, self righteous, self appointed Pharisees that judge and condemn others out of their own personal beliefs and ego. Then they are the first to say that they stand up for Christ and against sin while others presumably don't. These arrogant judgers sadly are a big part of Christian Fundamentalism today." Sides, buddy, the whole contraversy on the last few threads was: does the inspired, reliable, sovereignly preserved Scriptures teach that homosexuality is sin. I can't see any other real contraversy that was talked about, but feel free to clearly tell us whether you believe the Scriptures teach that homosexuality is no sin. At least have the guts to say what you believe and quit the smokescreens. So, sidethorn, your saying that the Canon of Scripture teaches no such thing and that people that say it does are: "self righteous, self appointed Pharisees that judge and condemn others out of their own personal beliefs and ego. Then they are the first to say that they stand up for Christ and against sin while others presumably don't. These arrogant judgers sadly are a big part of Christian Fundamentalism today." Sidethorn, what is your definition of the Canon of Scriptures; so your interpretation of scripture tells you that homosexuality is alright with 'your' loving Jesus; or your definition of Jesus; And whatever you define "Christian Fundamentalism" as, you are certainly wrong on this point, and it is a weighty thing to say the opposite of God; i.e. the clear teaching of scripture. But very enlightening, now we can see what your really bothered about, why didn't you come out and plainly say that homosexuality is alright with Jesus (at least in your bible). If you cannot agree on what scripture teaches on something this important, you must cut and paste scripture to your pleasure. And then you compare someone calling you on this to what "Carl does"? Just like dancer mindlessly parroting statements from others so they can fit into the crowd and enlist peoples sympathies; because CHS is the only villain in town; even though you people can't agree on what the inspired scriptures (that have been sovereignly kept reliable by God) teach on human sexuality, i.e. homosexuality. Very conspicuous. it's been fun lemmings, maybe I'll see you all in a few months; got a life and all have at it; and git me good; y'know continue changing the issue, straw manning, and go for those personal attacks. | ||
| whatsup Junior Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.61.30.105 |
Is the clock going backwards now? Could it be it was all a bluff? a ploy for donations? Hmmmm....guess we will see | ||
| rjfernalld New member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.79.179 |
hmmmmm, that IS interesting, whatsup....you're right, we'll see. | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
LOL it is adding time... Hmm. Just think no matter what spyders will cross factnet tonight and capture a cache of it. Etched forver into google. ahhh This I can tell you about NPO's. If it works to get a donation:dammit try! | ||
| sidethorn Junior Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 68.32.127.9 |
Hadasa: Have you not been reading my posts? I have already made it very clear that I do think homosexuality is a sin. I'll say it again that homosexuality is a sin. I do stand up for what I believe. Now here's some more things that are sinful. How about lying?? How about twisting facts in a discussion to gain an advantage?? How about denial when confronted with sin in your own life that you know full well that you're guilty of?? You're guilty of all three of those and you know it!! You've got a huge log in your own eye Hadasa!! So why don't you get that big log out of your own eye before you start pointing judgemental fingers at specks you think you see in other posters on Factnet. Like someone else said, I also will not recieve instruction from such an unqualified hypocrite such as yourself. Unfortunately Christian Fundamentalism has many people like you in it. That's exactly why I'm an ex-fundy for life!! I don't need judgemental jerks like yourself that cram your own stuff down my throat and then twist facts to support their own arguments. I know full well that the subject of homosexuality has been discussed in thread. I also know you're going beyond pointing out that homosexuality is a sin by completely obsessing about it and then presuming more posters think being gay is okay with God than is actually the case. Then you think you can psycho-analyse me and determine what I'm bothered about??? You obviously don't the first thing about psychology and are again unqualified to speak here. I'm not bothered one bit that God condemns homosexuality as a sin. It is a sin, period!! Its a sin just like a multitude of others like the ones in your own life Hadasa. So why don't you stop coming on Factnet like your crap don't stink. In God's eyes you have sinned just as much as all those gays you talk about, and so has everybody else including myself. Everyone has sinned and fallen short. You claim that this discourse is only about whether or not gay relationships are sin, its far more than that. Its about your condemning judgemental attitude and distortion of facts, far beyond being a friend to a gay person and lovingly telling them that their gay lifestyle is sinful before God and that God would love to set them free of that gay lifestyle and replace it with something far better. You'll probably deny it, but you'd be wrong again if you do. Go ahead compare me to Carl, because the more you confront me with your crap and false statements, the more you look like Carl every time. You act so much like you're still a regular at GGWO even to the point of calling disagreements with you as personal attacks. You obviously learned a lot from Carl Stevens, now you might want to work harder at unlearning it. | ||
| dancer Member Username: dancer Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Is Hadasa related D. Lewis? Reminds me of him a lot. I mean its like let it go. If the Lord could speak on something and say no more, what the heck are you all about? I swear you would think you were scared somebody was bout to find out you are gay.. | ||
| dancer Intermediate Member Username: dancer Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Hadasa, The last bit i quote here strikes me the great differendce between your type, and say Christians who are more interested in Jesus not the religion. But I don't think you will get it. Where the heck is JB to raggamuffin us on? I quote a true blue Christian, and one you could not even understand as you try to get the words "Awesome God" out of your mouth. Throw vomit crap out of your mouth about me, make insults about kids who would become mine and their families, and the rest. I know a few who will appreciate this take on your kind of Christianity: Rich Mullins on Christianity: And this is what I have come to think: That if I want to identify fully with Jesus Christ, whom I claim to be my Savior and Lord the best way that I can do that is to identify with the poor. This I know will go against the teachings of all the popular evangelical preachers. But they’re just wrong. They’re not bad, they’re just wrong. Christianity is not about building an absolutely secure little niche in the world where you can live with your perfect little wife and your perfect little children in your beautiful little house where you have no gays or minority groups anywhere near you. Christianity is about learning to love like Jesus loved and Jesus loved the poor and Jesus loved the broken. and It's just that for so many people that I know, Christianity's this matter of ... it has everything to do with morals. Christianity is a religion about morals. And they will even talk about Jesus. And they will say kids need to know about Jesus so they won't smoke, drink, or dance, or go with girls that do, and all that kind of thing. And I kinda go, "That's not why people need to know about Jesus. The only reason—the only possible excuse for talking about Jesus is because we need a Savior." and better yet if your not a fundy: It starts off so beautifully and then at the end of that Psalm, the last verse of that Psalm is “How very blessed is the man who dashes the little one’s heads against the rocks.” This is not the sort of scripture you read at a pro-life meeting. But it’s in there none the less. Which is the thing about the Bible that’s why it always cracks me up when people say ‘Well in Dududududududududududududu it says’ you kinda go ‘Wow it says a lot of things in there.’ Proof texting is a very dangerous thing. I think if we were given the scriptures it was not so that we could prove that we were right about everything. If we were given the scriptures it was to humble us into realizing that God is right and the rest of us are just guessing. Which is what makes them so much fun to read, especially if you are not a fundamentalist | ||
| dancer Intermediate Member Username: dancer Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Oh reference work for Hadasa: Psalm 137: "Blessed be they who dash the little one's heads against the rocks." Taken out of context I could argue like you. Just dumb.... | ||
| sidethorn Junior Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 68.32.127.9 |
Very well said there Dancer!!! A lot of the fundy churches I used to attend wanted their own little separated niches to separate themselves from all those "immoral" people out there or anyone else who didn't fit into their little church cliques. Then they pat themselves on the backs about how "holier" they are than those other people, about how great their church is, how great the pastors are, how great the programs are and on and on. They basically run a country club where everyone is expected to fit into the mold or get disfellowshipped. They're so quick to bash the liberals, the Democrats, the gays and blame them for all the nations' problems. They tell you what to believe and how to vote (always Republican no matter what!). The amount of fellowship one gets in these kind of churches is often determined by how much of something you have that the church leadership happens to be in want of at the moment. Of course your willingness to give them that something is crucial to getting that fellowship. So where does that usually leave the poor, the broken, the sick, the demonized etc.?? If often leaves them out in the cold with little or no fellowship. These hurting people are viewed as uncool burdens to the church and are often discarded for it. These, the very same people that Jesus would go out of His way to minister to. Overall fundy America doesn't get it!!! Fundy America is too concerned with numbers of people and money, big programs, politics, egos, social statuses, and avoiding those "immoral" people. Jesus on the other hand reached out to the hurting, the sick, the uncool, those "immoral" people and shared the Gospel with them. He gave them a new life of true holiness instead of self righteousness and pride. He saved them from their sins. He healed them. He delivered them. He gave their lives meaning. Maybe a lot of these churches that are so concerned about their appearances, politics, reputations, building sizes, budgets, and their country club lifestyles need to take another hard look at the example of Jesus and His apostles and follow that example more closely. |
