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40days40years
Intermediate Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 262
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 17.184.103.245
| | Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 3:10 pm: | 
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The topic: UnBiblical "Reform" Needs Reform, by Jon Moseley at the Reformation Station. He slams Philip and any critics of EN pretty good.
From Jon in Oct. 2006: UnBiblical "Reform" Needs Reform
That is What needs reform is this discussion group and those moaning in it. Read Matthew 18:15-17. Your Lord and Savior has COMMANDED YOU (in the red ink) what to do and how to do it. It's not just a good idea. IT'S THE LAW.
How is it that you propose to "reform" a church for being unbiblical WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE ACTING UNBIBLICALLY?
What kind of "reform" is this that DOES NOT FOLLOW THE BIBLE yet purports to seek a "reform" to make a church more Biblical?
I left Every Nation / Morning Star in Sterling, Viginia a couple of years ago because I was not getting anything out of it.
If Brett Fuller would sit down with me and talk about improving his minisrtry and his church I could identify dozens of areas where improvement is possible and should take place. I see problems.
BUT YOU ARE ALL BADLY OFF-BASE YOURSELVES.
Despite many prolbems with Every Nation that I could see, part of the reason I left, what you must confront is THAT EVERY NATION IS *BETTER* THAN 90% OF THE CHURHCES ON THE PLANET.
What you oppose so strongly is the Bible itself and Jesus. Seeking to flee th discomfort of God working in your life -- and beleve me it can hurt -- you seek to blame a church and a ministry, rather than accepting God's minisrtry in your life.
Should you stay in EN? I did NOT. I looked at what I needed NEXT in my life and I could see that I was not going to get what I needed from Brett Fuller's church. But that was because of where I was after 20 years as a Christian and what was going on in my spiritual walk. That was because Brett Fuller has decided to reach a large number of people at a fairly simpliistic level. Brett Fuller has decided to build wide, not deep.
However, your complaints here are often downright bizarre.
Could I make a lst of ways that EN could and should improve? You bet! If I spent dinner with Brett, I could suggest a lot of concerns and areas of necessary improvement.
BUT YOU COULD SAY THAT ABOUT ANY CHURCH?
I would like to see what church you think lives up to your unreasonable standards. I would love to go visit that church with a pad of paper and apply your unreasonable standards to the church that you propose as beting better.
SHOULD EVERY NATION LISTEN to your concerns? You bet. And if there is anyone thing I would criticize it is not absorbing and listening to PRIVATE, INTERNAL discussions aimed at continuously improving and making mid-course corrections.
BUT LET'S TRY THIS: YOU GO TO A CATHOLIC CHURCH and say "I have some suggestions on how you should change. I love your fancy buildings and all, BUT I THINK THE POPE HAS IT WRONG on a few things. Let me show you the error of your ways."
OH, YEAH, RIGHT! YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF RECEPTION YOU WOULD GET ASKING A CATHOLIC CHURCH TO CHANGE BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO. DREAM ON !!!!!!
Well then how about an Anglican Church? Surely they would rearrange their liturgy, their method of worship,their church governance, their programs, their messages TO SUIT YOU AND YOUR CIRTICISMS. No? What a surprise!
Well, then how about a Baptist church? I would love to listen in as you go to a Baptist church and tell them they are wrong and need to change. They might politely listen. But when you refuse to take no for an answer, as you have done here, I would bet you would eventually get the same response as you complain about with EN. |
40days40years
Intermediate Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 263
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 17.184.103.245
| | Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 3:25 pm: |
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Part 2:
SHOULD BRET FULLER CHANGE? That is his responsibility before God. He has no choice, no option, no refuge. God demands that those in leadership do their very best. It is Brett's responsibility before God to LISTEN to the criticism and RESPOND with heartfelt change.
But is it your role to invent, exagerate, and fabricate complaints against Every Nation? Your role is different. Again, let's try out your approach with a Catholic Church and see how well that goes down.
So if you want to "reform" any church, LET'S START WITH REPENTNACE. THAT IS, YOUR OWN. Not repentance with regard to the church leadership. They are servants and had better understand that Jesus washed his apostles feet, and instructed them to do likewise in leading their flock.
No, repentance in terms of the attitude of the heart.
iIs there any complaint on this board that you have not sent directly, IN PRIVATE, to Rice Broocks or the affected person PRIVATELY in accordance with Matthew 18:15-17.
WHEN -- NOT IF -- Jesus asks you on the Last Day whether you followed his COMMANDMENTS in Matthew 18:15-17, are you confident that you can defend your actions?
And are you asking Every Nation to live up to a standard of perfection THAT NO OTHER CHURCH is being asked tol live up to?
Re: UnBiblical "Reform" Needs Reform
I am sorry that after a sleepless night of finding and reading junk on the internet, my typing is so horrible. My eyes are blurry this morning.
I can understand people having (unhealthy) complaints about Maranatha.
But EveryNation? COME ON, GET REAL. When someone wants to whine about Maranatha, I say they have healing left to do. When someone wants to whine about Every Nation, I say the problem is in you, not ANY church you are going to or have gone to. AND NOTE: Discussing where Maranatha went off track, what is true and what is untrue, what was good and what was error, is NOT whining. Seeking wisdom, seeking to understand, seeking to rightly divide truth from error is appropriate indeed imperative. But there is seeking wisdom... and then there is whining.
40/40: It sounds like Jon M. thinks you folks in EN had it easy and are just whiners. |
maranatha1984
Junior Member
Username: maranatha1984
Post Number: 27
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 12.96.65.83
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:03 am: |
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B---A---R---F
This guy would have been in the CHECKA in Russia in 1918 had he been Russian, he would have been •••• leader in 1936 had he lived in Germany- he would have been in the Red Guard had he lived in Mao's China, he would have been a Guard Leader of the Khemner Rouge in hte 70s, and God Forbid had be been born in Saudi Arabia he would be an Alqaeda Leader today.
Sound harsh- but this is the plain and bitter truth. I do believe in Liberty and the ability to voice one's view however distateful- but guys like Mosely are not only sickening they are scary |
40days40years
Intermediate Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 278
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.191.2.34
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:44 am: |
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thanks for posting Tik I have quite a few things to say in response to this thing posted in late 2006. The Moseley mouth caught my eye. He should KNOW that this place exists because the powers that be he worships do not answer questions or inform the minions under them. It is ex ticked off members that inform about the gulag, they come in and fill in the details which you won't get if you sit down and chat with EN leaders like he encourages. Moseley owes us all A BIG apology! |
40days40years
Intermediate Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 279
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.191.2.34
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:56 am: |
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Jon wrote: What you oppose so strongly is the Bible itself and Jesus.
From 40 and all the good guys: BITE ME JON
is Jay Rogers included? I don't know.
fighting for truth with all my buds at factnet 40/40 |
robert_unknown
Intermediate Member
Username: robert_unknown
Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 80.109.163.152
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 1:04 pm: |
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Jon, a victim of the "Stockholm Syndrome"? |
40days40years
Intermediate Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 282
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 172.191.2.34
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 1:12 pm: |
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cupatea
New member
Username: cupatea
Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 202.134.253.21
| | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:34 pm: |
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"Jon, a victim of the "Stockholm Syndrome"?
Robert you have just made me p|ss my pants! Thanks for the laugh!!
After a loooooooonnngggg break I am checking out this site again. And I'm back to 0 posts again -what's this about the third time or something!! Look like nothing much has changed. Bill still not back??? That is a big disappointment. Uly, Ginger, Speak howdy y'all! Hey whats the deal with Sam Hawkins leaving the Nash-evil-le church? Steve's Blog Has he just left Bet-hell or is it a complete leaving of EN? |
robert_unknown
Intermediate Member
Username: robert_unknown
Post Number: 103
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 80.109.163.152
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:59 am: |
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welcome back, cupatea. great to see you again. and yes - its ad, that Bill is not back  |
dust
Member
Username: dust
Post Number: 89
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 68.52.214.120
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:43 am: |
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I agree. I miss Bill. |
ulyankee
Junior Member
Username: ulyankee
Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 130.70.157.190
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:58 am: |
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cupatea, welcome back. My understanding is that Sam Hawkins is leaving both Bethel and his position in EN. There is currently no EN church in New Orleans, as the EN churches in Louisiana officially left last summer and aside from a visit from Jim Laffoon earlier this year they don't appear to maintain formal ties with EN. BTW, this news isn't terribly new or surprising as I know the Hawkins' house in River Landing had been up for sale. |
cupatea
New member
Username: cupatea
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 202.134.253.21
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:16 am: |
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Hey Uly! So this move to New Orleans is not a new church plant then for EN? I heard that Sam wanted to leave earlier but Rice begged him to stay. Looks like the begging didn't work too well. If I remember rightly Sam wasn't an original MCM'er was he? He came in from somewhere else, can't remember where though. Or have I got my wires crossed with that one? Uly - I still owe you a reply to an email for way back. Sorry I haven't got around to it - some surgery and other issues got in the way of internet time. I'll catch up soon. |
ulyankee
Junior Member
Username: ulyankee
Post Number: 46
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 130.70.157.190
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:52 pm: |
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Hmm, don't know if there will be a new EN church plant in NO or not. I kind of doubt it... but if so, EN hasn't announced it as such as they have other planned church plants in Orlando, Miami, etc. Speaking of Miami, I wonder if that is on hold now that the key pastors in that church plant are going to Houston instead, since Darryl Flowers is stepping down and going back to the "marketplace," it sounds like to go into engineering.
These are interesting times indeed and right now I'm mostly stepping back, praying, and watching... letting God do the work for He is sovereign and it seems people are listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit, regardless of rank or position in the organization. The fruit of those who are His are becoming apparent, as is the fruit of those who are wolves in sheep's clothing. Those who are His seem less and less able to take much less stomach the fruit offered up by wolves. You will know them by their fruit as our Lord and Savior said.
It's good to hear from you again and I pray that you're recovering well from surgery and that you and yours are otherwise doing OK. |
ulyankee
Junior Member
Username: ulyankee
Post Number: 47
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 130.70.157.190
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:19 pm: |
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Oh, and you are correct, Sam H. didn't come from MCM. According to his bio on the Liberty Fuels website, he was at Faith Church in NO before he joined up with MSI/EN. |
lc_20
New member
Username: lc_20
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 152.163.100.15
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 8:23 pm: |
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Darryl Flowers stepping down... that is interesting news. Also interesting that Morgan Bates, the cleanup man for RL, is involved. So much for reorging to reach the wealthy athletes in the area. Morgan has got to be getting sick of this "sending" concept.
"Morgan and Loretta were on their way to Miami, but u-turned and are heading to Houston to lead the church"
That definitely doesn't sound like someone is listening to God. It sounds like damage control. Something must have gone wrong fast in Houston. |
awrittenpicture
New member
Username: awrittenpicture
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 69.227.10.246
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:30 pm: |
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did anyone see that creative poster of jesus created using the entire Book of Revelations, mind blowing! i was just snoopin' around that website Lapopart.com and they have a whole christian collection. it's really cool guys |
jbkrems
Intermediate Member
Username: jbkrems
Post Number: 122
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.225.163.158
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:49 pm: |
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LC20: I actually agree. |
