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the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Intermediate Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.215.207.115
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 10:06 am: | 
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As mentioned earlier, I went up north to debate a Church of Christ preacher on an unknown subject. After arriving, I was given the word “expedient.” The debate centered around dinner on the grounds. It also loosely included the Lord’s Supper.
<sidebar> Allow me to start with a quick sidebar. Perhaps, the two most contentious doctrines in churches today, are “baptism” and the “Lord’s Supper.” Most of the contention revolves around the Roman church’s treatment of the subjects. As Mr. MCMSTAFF78 is sure to point out, it takes two to tango. That certainly is the case with these two subjects. The Roman church is not wholly to blame. The finger pointing would take all night. So I will briefly give some of the contentions.
1. The Roman church teaches that the bread turns to flesh upon touching the lips and the wine to blood.
2. The Roman church teaches that you must attend the Confessional Booth twice a year to partake of the Lord’s Supper. (With some exceptions.)
3. Many religions teach that you must be sinless to take part in the Lord’s Supper.
4. Many religions teach that the Lord’s Supper must be conducted every time the group meets.
5. Many religions teach that the Lord’s Supper must be provided at (every) (only) Sunday morning services.
6. Grape juice? Wine? Unleavened bread? Wafer? Pre-packaged? Home-spun? The number of religions fighting over those is innumerable.
7. OOPS! I forgot my favorite. Many religions teach you must be a member of their church to take part in the Lord's Supper.
I would encourage you to add your own contentions, as I left out many.</sidebar>
I will provide some quick background on the CoC. The CoC hotly opposes what it (CoC) sees as quote, unquote “good works (i.e. food pantries, alms for the poor, etc.). the CoC believes these works should be left to the government. They also oppose politics and war. Churches of Christ often uses Saint Paul’s condemnation, of the Corinthians handling of the Lord’s Supper, to oppose dinner on the grounds. Pretty much anything the Baptist church supports, the Church of Christ opposes. I was invited to debate on the basis ‘Apostolic’ means pentecostal.
I hold that the ‘bread & wine’ used were expedients, that is they were convenient. Had the disciples served beer and hot dogs that night, Jesus would have used them instead. In other words, the bread and wine are purely symbolical. What say ye? |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 81
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.34.54.189
| | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 8:27 pm: |
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As one who was raised in a Canadian-French Roman-Catholic family, and attended eight years of Parochial School (which engages in religious education in addition to conventional education) run by Sisters of Mary Immaculate Queen (Marian Nuns), we were taught that one cannot receive communion unless you first go to confession. Usually, confession was held on Saturday afternoons, and we went to church on Sunday mornings after Catechism Class (where Catholic doctrine is taught) to receive the host. The nuns at St. Anthony's Catholic School told us never to bite into a host, but to let it dissolve in your mouth. They told us that if we did bite into it, we would bleed from our hands and feet, were Christ received His wounds. I was so worried about accidently biting into the host, for fear of hemmoraging all over church, that it kept me up nights and I ended up having to take tranquilizers as a child and seeing a professional counselor. In our church, we never drank wine or grape juice; but the parish priest did all the drinking for us.
I was "confirmed" with a slap across the face by the regional bishop when I was in the third grade and took the name "Anthony" as my confirmation name. For those of you who don't know what "confirmation" is in the Catholic Church, it is a sacrament in which the Holy Ghost is given to those already baptized in order to make them strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.
(Message edited by Dodge on June 30, 2007) |
the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Intermediate Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 254
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.215.207.115
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 7:12 am: |
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Thank you, Mr. Dodge. I am somewhat familiar with Roman Church doctrine. I am not surprised by your comments. I am surprised no one else has spoken out. I remember visiting a Baptist church some years ago now. The church was located on a busy highway in front and an active railroad on the rear.
At high noon when the church was preparing for the Lord's Supper, we were informed that all non-members would have to leave the church. When I got outside, I found all the members' children playing in the yard. I cannot imagine a parent allowing a kid to play near a highway without supervision. Some of the children and several visitors said they are kicked out every Sunday.
While not related to the Lord's Supper, I visited a Methodist church, one time, where the pastor stood at the door inspecting his flock. If you were male, you had to have on a suit and tie to enter. If female, you had to wear a skirt four inches below the knees. The pastor actually had a ruler in his hand.
Hopefully, factnet will be around long enough to discuss some of our perversions. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 82
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.34.54.189
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:35 pm: |
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I once belonged to a Methodist Church in upstate New York, in a town called Cherry Valley. The pastor, Paul Freeman, was one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet. Everything was informal, and he was filled with joy, which he liked to spread around. Bread and grape juice were shared during communion, but only if you wanted to. There was absolutely no pressure. Pastor Freeman organized lots of charatible events to help others, and there certainly was no dress code. In fact, at the time, I was living on a farm without a car; so I drove a '52 International tractor to Sunday services and parked it in front of the Methodist Church. All Methodist, or Baptist, or Catholic Chruches are not the same. |
the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Intermediate Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 258
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.215.207.115
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 8:15 pm: |
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Mr. Dodge:
Sorry I read your reply earlier but forgot to answer. I agree, no two churches are alike. To be an individual, one must have differences. To have differences, one must be an individual. It is the same with many churches, each is an individual, some good, some bad. |
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