| Author |
Message |
    
chezikah
New member
Username: chezikah
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 76.180.242.138
| | Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:08 pm: | 
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As you all may know Yoneq teaches there is no independent movement,will,action or feelings in the community. Must be obedient to elders and shepherds. The above subject matter can be found in various teachings which I can give to anyone who may be interested in researching for themselves. contact me at Yoneqsucks@hotmail.com |
nabashalam
Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 100
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 3:00 pm: |
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Hi Cheryl,
I know all about the inner teachings and dynamics so Im not interested. Im trying to move on and shed the bitterness which I suggest you should try doing. It is admirable to educate the public about the pros and cons of the TT but IMHO I feel you and your website would do much better and attract more people if it were not so slanted with the hurt and bitterness that is eating you up... |
anon_e_mus
New member
Username: anon_e_mus
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.168.248.82
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 3:28 pm: |
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chezihah, I emailed you but never heard back from you. did you get it?
Anon |
wordworks2001
New member
Username: wordworks2001
Post Number: 15
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 68.58.127.165
| | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 11:28 am: |
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I am the author of {i}The Ghosts of November: Memoirs of an Outsider Who Witnessed the Carnage at Jonestown, Guyana.{/i} My name is Jeff Brailey. Please google the title or my name to check my bona fides. I would like to interview former and current members of cults or alternative religions for a book I am writing. I have been writing about alternative religions for about 30 years. I approach each group I write about with an objective and open mind. I have written about the House of Yahweh, a religion based in Abilene, Texas that was billed as the "deadliest doomsday cult in America" and after living with the group for about a week, wrote an article refuting that characterization.
I hope some of you who have contacts within a group will encourage them to speak with me. My email address is wordworks2001@yahoo.com and my blog is http://novemberghosts.blogspot.com |
barely_escaped
New member
Username: barely_escaped
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.3.252.173
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 8:51 pm: |
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I just had to post today as I BARELY ESCAPED TODAY from traveling an hour and a half, to visit one of the 'Tribes' here in Florida. I talked to Prisca personally over the phone and was so impressed, initially with her demeanor and seeming peacefulness and after doing research on the internet, naturally chose NOT to go OR to call OR anything else!!! MY GOD!! I came so close to having my foot in a trap, a HUGE BEAR TRAP!!! Praise to the God and the Holy Spirit that He who the Son sets free is free indeed!!! Just had to share this as at this very moment, I am in such a wonderful zone of utter THANKFULNESS to God for His great mercy to me. In fact, for the PURE PLEASURE of it, I am ordering a pizza (bet THEY don't ever have that!) AND if I want to, eat every morsel to simply CELEBRATE my emancipation in Christ!!! I am SO HAPPY in God for this day of true deliverance of what could've been a total NIGHTMARE!!!}} |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 11:07 pm: |
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Shalom All! We or Many here on Factnet have or/are looking for .....what we have not recieved from our parents or spiritual groups or other personal relationships (all 3 for me   ), so the real problem is not the 12 Tribes but where we are looking for .... being loved and accepted!! This might sound really weird and Naba and others will jump on me... I truly believe that many of us are "lost" or actually "of" the lost tribes os Israel!! And because we are not in the land we are "lost" and trying soooo hard to connect with something or someone but will not be able to until we go back to the land!!!! I know some can connect me to any number of cult groups ...as long as you don't connect me to the pagan religion called chr-stianity all is cool!! Thomas P. Quinn |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:00 am: |
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Barely_escaped,
It's sounds like you found just what you were searching for...pizza in Christ!
Now that's going to bring about the kingdom,
just what Yahshua prayed for of his disciples!
Enjoy!!! |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:30 am: |
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Thomas,
What are you talking about?
Are you going to pack up the family and move to Israel?
I agree, "the real problem is not the 12 Tribes but where we are looking for .... being loved and accepted!!" Does being loved and accepted by our parents or spiritual groups or others give us the abundant life of love and acceptance from our father in heaven with his spirit given in Yahshua?
Do we find him in a promise land?
Or do we find him in his people?
Do we find him in his temple?
Or do we find him in his eternal dwelling place............ |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:31 am: |
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Truth_Seeker, Are you the same Truth_Seeker that a few years ago was from Kentucky and/or Tenn.? Or are you a 12 Triber just burning rubber? TQ |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:35 am: |
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I guess we were typing at the same time! TQ |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:45 am: |
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Shalom Truth_Seeker,Am I going to pack up my family and move to Israel? I hope so!!!!!!But the time will be when YHVH tells me and my family!No the "love" that some are looking for cannot be found ANYWHERE, but the love that some of us is looking for should be able to be found in any or all of these areas!!!!Yes it is late here in western NY and I have to be to work in 5 1/2 hours! Shalom! TQ |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 120
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:47 am: |
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Barely escaped...
Did you ever think it might have been common sense and not "Jesus" that made a wise decision?
Give yourself some credit and not some ethereal spirit! |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:47 am: |
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Truth_Seeker are the same young lady that was posting a while back? You were truly capivated by the 12 Tribes but your husband was stepping in and trying to be balanced. TQ |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 121
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:49 am: |
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Oh yeah Tommy boy,,, you lost allright! |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:55 am: |
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I was truly capivated by the 12 Tribes also..I visited once...my best friend also visited and a fellow employee was a member for 7-8 years!I wish they were a bit more "balanced" but I guess if I was "in" the "Tribes" I would be in the same place they are! HMMMMM..... |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:57 am: |
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Thomas,
I visited the community in Chattanooga,
it's been a while though...
Which 12 tribes community are you near?
Have a good day,
and good night! |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:03 am: |
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Naba, I once said if we ever met we would probaly get along! Actually.. you are probaly a real jerk and so am I!! Yes you have been screwed by the Tribes and I have not! But my family, jobs, "ch-rches" and others have been "screwing me for 45+ years! My spelling is really ....well it stinks! |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:10 am: |
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I'm between Hamburg and Ithaca! In the Rochester area. I also visited the Rose Creek Village in TN. The problem is I truly love and try to follow the Torah and both pick and choose! TQ |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 124
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:13 am: |
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Nah Tommy...Im not a jerk... its just my humor is a bit crass...well maybe a little more than just a bit...
And Im sure we would get along great...  |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:15 am: |
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Naba where are you!?!!!! TQ |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 125
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:16 am: |
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Follow the Torah???
Havent you read the book of Galatians???? |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:18 am: |
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balanced?
What would the counterbalance be?
I think Yahshua set a pretty unbalanced, radical example, as did the first believers and the 12 tribes today.
Did you know radical really means proceeding from a root or origin?
Who was exhorted to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength? |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:28 am: |
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Naba, Tommy? How about Davey? A bit? Life is really tough. I'm not going to tell you what I have to struggle with..but having a 22 year old marrige, 3 children home schooling, home fellowshipping! TQ
 |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:40 am: |
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Yes, the Torah and nothing but! We have to look at the "new testment" through the lenses of the Torah!!!! If you don't you will create a new religion like chr-stianity has!"WHO was exhorted to love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart, and all all your soul, and all your strength"Believers in YHVH! Deut., the Torah, then old testament!! I don't have the chapter and verse..because work is comin upon me very soon!! |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:43 am: |
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Com'on guys! TQ Keep me goin'?! I'm fading...... |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 126
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:57 am: |
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I live in Madison Wi.... |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.42
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 2:05 am: |
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Hmmmmm..... A little bit too far to connect in person! TQ |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.10.252
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:31 pm: |
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"the real problem is not the 12 Tribes but where we are looking for .... being loved and accepted!!"
"Does being loved and accepted by our parents or spiritual groups or others give us the abundant life of love and acceptance from our father in heaven with his spirit given in Yahshua?"
"But my family, jobs, "ch-rches" and others have been "screwing me for 45+ years!"....
Whether one is loved and accepted, looking for (and perhaps failing to find) love and acceptance, or being screwed out of them constantly...
look at the common factor in your situation...
yourself. |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.180
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 9:59 pm: |
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Why don't you just say "it's all about you" I have an awesome but normal "american" family that does love an accept each other. I have a few friends that I'm somewhat close to where we can share many things with each with including the desire for community. Others on this forum have "issues"(as I do also ) and a strong enough set of friends and family but still desire "more" from mankind. But to say that the "common factor in your situation...yourself" is a leap! Then again maybe the Spirit of the Eternal One is not here and that's why "community" just doesn't seem to work! TQ |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 128
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:27 am: |
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"still desire "more" from mankind"
That sounds like "me, me me!" to me!
Or should that read "desire more from God"?
And since when did you become a "ghost chaser" and can determine what "spirits" are where and which ones arent, let alone that they even exist? |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 129
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:44 am: |
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The most important relationship we have in our lives is with our selves. And even though we are the only ones who are present at every moment of our lives—from birth onward—this relationship can be the most difficult one to cultivate. This may be because society places such emphasis on the importance of being in a romantic partnership, even teaching us to set aside our own needs for the needs of another. Until we know ourselves, however, we cannot possibly choose the right relationship to support our mutual growth toward our highest potential. By allowing ourselves to be comfortable with being alone, we can become the people with whom we want to have a relationship.
Perhaps at no other time in history has it been possible for people to survive, and even thrive, while living alone. We can now support ourselves financially, socially, and emotionally without needing a spouse for survival in any of these realms. With this freedom, we can pursue our own interests and create fulfilling partnerships with friends, business partners, creative cohorts, and neighbors. Once we’ve satisfied our needs and created our support system, a mate then becomes someone with whom we can share the bounty of all we’ve created and the beauty we’ve discovered within ourselves.
As we move away from tradition and fall into more natural cycles of being in the world today, we may find that there are times where being alone nourishes us and other periods in which a partnership is best for our growth. We may need to learn to create spaces to be alone within relationships. When we can shift our expectations of our relationships with ourselves and others to opportunities for discovery, we open ourselves to forge new paths and encounter uncharted territory. Being willing to know and love ourselves, and to find what truly makes us feel deeply and strongly, gives us the advantage of being able to attract and choose the right people with whom to share ourselves, whether those relationships fall into recognizable roles or not. Choosing to enjoy being alone allows us to fully explore our most important relationship...the one with our true selves. |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.217
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 6:01 pm: |
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Great post Naba..honestly! By the way"calling" you a jerk a few evenings ago was kind of a compliment!The one thing about emailing is that you really don't know the other persons past let alone who they really are in the here and now! I think the idea in your post about how we can now more then ever before take care of our selves is one of the reasons people of all ways of life are searching for "community". I never thought it was a "Acts thing" but a human thing! Here's one for you... the industrial revolution in the early 1800's in England and the uSA was the beginning of the break up of the family unit as we knew it!! We probably could have some really great discssions about this alone! Shalom,Shalom!!! TQ |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 41
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.10.252
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 12:42 am: |
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"a leap" ? I thought that was what one needed for faith!
And why doesn't anyone want to admit that being discontent in any situation (especially with a great sounding one as TQ describes)has to do first with oneself. Truth_seeker, doesn't Apostle Paul make that declaration; he learned "to be content" in any situation? (Phil 4; although it seems to me he was referencing economics - which to my notion is a real cult tactic.)
Does anyone here actually know what it feels like to have a loved one desire "something more?" They hear: "Yes, you're a great wife/husband; yes, you're a great son/daughter; yes, you're a great friend - but you're not enough. I'm destined to/for bigger and greater things than you."
And what is bigger or greater than "God"... no matter what form it takes(God, money, community, life style,status), it's an idol.
I'm not saying one should not try to improve oneself (financially, spiritually, relationally), but if you can't do it (or be content)without the idol, the idol isn't going to help you in the long run.
Take the leap. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 131
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.130.19.196
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 6:14 pm: |
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TQ... a friend sent me this just for you!
YOU PUT THE DEVIL OUT, BUT DID YOU LET HIM...
LEAVE HIS BAGS?
You got out of a bad relationship because it was bad,
but you are still resentful and angry
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You got out of financial debt, but you still can't
control the desire to spend on frivolous things
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You got out of a bad habit or addiction, but you still long to try it just one more time
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You said, I forgive you, but you can't seem to forget and have peace with that person
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You told your unequally yoked mate that it was over,
but you still continue to call
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You got out of that horribly oppressive job, but you are still
trying to sabotage the company after you've left
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You cut off the affair with that married man/woman, but you
still lust after him/her
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You broke off your relationship with that hurtful, abusive person, but you are suspicious and distrusting of every new person you meet
(you let the devil leave his bags)
You decided to let go of the past hurts from growing up in an
unstable environment, yet you believe you are unworthy of love from others and you refuse to get attached to anyone
(you let the devil leave his bags)
When you put the devil out, please make sure he takes his bags!
HAPPINESS KEEPS YOU SWEET
TRIALS KEEP YOU STRONG
SORROWS KEEP YOU HUMAN
FAILURES KEEP YOU HUMBLE
SUCCESS KEEPS YOU GLOWING |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 199.76.156.205
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:37 pm: |
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Soul,
I think it is less a matter of contentment
and more a matter of conscience....
Furthermore, I don't see love expressed in
community as idolatry, but as worship. |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 1:42 am: |
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I think it is less a matter of contentment
and more a matter of conscience....
Furthermore, I don't see love expressed in
community as idolatry, but as worship.
TS,
You’re going to have to distinguish for me the difference between (your definitions of) idolatry and worship! As far as I know, idolatry IS worship!
But I think you are making a distinction between worship as what is given to the Judeo-Christian God and idolatry as what is given to anything else.
And (I’ve thought of this before, but never have gotten into it) when we all use the term “community” here (on this board), I think we all have in mind the type of life style that the TT thinks it represents. In reality, we all know that “community” has all sorts of and levels of definitions. So, a local church in my town, located just across the street from me, would consider itself being “in community” when its members come together to worship on Sunday morning.
My concern is not that the members of this local church think of themselves as a community in worship, but rather that a destructive cultic community, such as the TT, thinks of their living style and arrangement as necessary to produce effective worship to the same deity. Once the idea of necessary circumstances becomes paramount to/for effective worship, then, yes, idolatry appears. Worshipers “idolize” the circumstances, the props, the location, the priests, the form of worship, the ceremonies, the exact wordings of prayers and invocations... If one believes he/she needs to be in the TT to produce worship pleasing to God, then he/she has lost the meaning of worship, particularly as it is presented in the New Testament.
As for conscientiousness and contentment – if one is content, then the conscience isn’t a problem. The conscience becomes a problem in contentment only when one believes (or worries) that he/she is not in conformity to some rules of right behavior or conduct. Those rules are learned, one way or another. Reasons for adhering to those rules and the depth of ingraining of those rules vary from person to person –depending upon past experiences, present circumstances and personality traits, to name a few.
Rejecting the idea for the need to be “in a community” in order to worship effectively is one reason (I believe) Naba believes more that the desire for being in community comes from a “need to belong.” But I think any belief that envelops the need for a particular life style to be “right with God,” gives a person the “righteous” reasons to join a cult group. It also gives them that condescending attitude for remaining in the cult.
As I said before, it very hard to condemn or criticize a loved one’s actions when their argument is that they are doing “God’s will,” particularly if we are of a similar worshipful attitude. Likewise, we are averse to asking loved ones to go against their conscience.
But if Naba is correct about the need to belong, then idolatry of the community will ensue. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 11:26 pm: |
|
Well, it seems to me, it is less about "the need to belong," and more about a "living style," which will "produce worship pleasing to God."
Soul, you and I undoubtedly have different beliefs, and thus, we will surely have different lifestyles according to our ideas of what is "righteous," or "right with God."
We are who we are!
and so we shall be... |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 12:59 am: |
|
Well, I wasn’t tying to make this anything personal. In fact, I was consciously trying to stay way from personal beliefs.
I really do not care what people believe as their religion (doctrine) for the most part... (you know, provided they don’t think human sacrifice is good or child abuse is alright.)
I do not accept, though, one person’s/people’s belief that theirs is the only right belief. And I have found that the TT is a group which believes that their live style is the only right way to live to produce worship pleasing to God. (Remember, I was called the Babylonian Harlot, who worshiped with a Christian church, according to one of their elders.)
And Naba (Yathed) had to be (re)baptized by the TT, because his previous baptism by a Catholic Church was invalid, according to them (that is, theirs is the only true - and saving – baptism).
I am not against living in community – in that literal sense of the word. I grew up near many Hutterite communities and have no problem with their lifestyle. I lived in Pennsylvania – surrounded by Mennonites, and here in Wisconsin, by Amish, and have no problem with their varying lifestyles (not all live in community – but do live according to certain lifestyles). I don’t even care that the Amish here do not have to send their kids to school after the 8th grade, and I do! But I see none of those idolizing their lifestyle, and they do not condemn me for NOT living as they are, the way TTs do.
TT makes living in community – and furthermore, in THEIR community, as necessity for salvation.
When there is a “disconnect” between belief and action.... there is discontentment. And if one is not now living in TT community – but agree with their beliefs.... then that person must surely find discontentment in his/her heart. (is it not written: Faith without works is dead?) And there are those who found living in the TT did not match their beliefs and were discontent, also.
We are taught that we have to act on our belief, but in reality, our free-will actions are a true reflection of our beliefs. |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 209.139.23.50
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 6:20 pm: |
|
'TT makes living in community – and furthermore, in THEIR community, as necessity for salvation.'
seems you have it entirely backwards....
the twelve tribes is the RESULT of salvation... not the other way around... |
sabbathkeeper
New member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.148.129
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:13 pm: |
|
Oh boy here we go! |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:21 am: |
|
"...the twelve tribes is the RESULT of salvation..."
That's very interesting! Seems my TT proselytizer had it wrong then!
I was told that I HAD to come to the TT, where I would get saved and in order to be saved. I would have had to be (re)baptized at the TTs - as he was, (b/c neither of our Christian baptisms was recognized as legitimate...remember, I am the “Babylonian Harlot.”)
Unless, of course, TT don’t consider (the biblical idea of) baptism as (a sign of, an act of) salvation....which I think they do.
Was my proselytizer lying to me?
I dunno! Let's ask him....
( and this issue raises another very interesting question for me: If one leaves the TT, does that indicate that the person never was saved in the first place? Or have they simply “lost” a previously held salvation by action of leaving the group? )
(and SK... I get so happy that I clap and jump up and down when I say "oh boy, here we go again!") |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.149.118
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:22 am: |
|
Come on man! |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 135
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 9:12 pm: |
|
SK, I dont understand the "Come on man" statement... |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:42 pm: |
|
Maybe SK means "'come on man,' were you lying to the lady when you told her she had to come to the TT b/c it was the only way she could be saved?"
Maybe SK means, "'come on man' did you really tell her you had to get baptized again to be acceptable as a TT member?"
Maybe SK means, "Come on man" were you really told you would lose your salvation if you left the TT?" |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.179.78
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 11:05 pm: |
|
Yabba Daba Dooooo.....Here we go again! |
purposeless
New member
Username: purposeless
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.58.24.212
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:07 am: |
|
Soul-
The communal way of life as represented by the TT is the fruit of salvation. You know a tree by its fruit, and we know what the fruit of salvation is by 1st John 3:14. We know what love is by 1st John 3:16. We also know that the fruit of salvation for the people of the 1st Church produced Acts 2:44 and 4:32. So, all that aside, as Romans 10:14 & 15 say, You can not preach unto salvation unless you are sent. So, unless a sent one, from those who are truly saved, preached to you and you were baptized, then you produced the fruit of being "saved" or "passing out of death and into life", Then no, you are not saved in my opinion. I don't mean to sound like a preacher but from what i understand of the TT, Yes, you do have to go to the "community" to be saved. But you cannot have one with-out the other. You cannot be saved and not produce the fruit, and you cannot produce the fruit apart from being saved. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:52 am: |
|
Question- I have been reading through the posts of the TT and since there is much I don't know about them, I hope this doesn't sound silly- If a person is supposed to give up all and live in the community as exemplified by the Disciples... where was the "community" the disciples formed. Did they never return to their families or at least visit them after Yashua's crucifixion? If the Disciples were allowed to visit their families, why aren't people in the TT allowed to visit theirs? If the Disciples left the principle of sharing and living together after the crucifixion, then how could they be the example to follow. I may be nieve, but did purposeless mean that love verse to be John 3:16 or 1st John 3:16? I am open to learning, but skeptical when so much of a radical change in life is based on one or two scriptures and disregard for many more. Why if "salvation" meant separation and community living did Yashua cleanse some people and then tell them to "go and sin no more" instead of come with us and sin no more?
I'm very curious. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:00 pm: |
|
2nd curiousities- If Yoneq is the prophet or spiritual leader of the TT, and the lives of the TT is based on what the early believers were supposed to do, then why does people on here talk about him staying in hiding or not being out there as the Scritures tell us to preach the Gospel to all nations. The disciples wrote letters to the early churches and other disciples and still openly spread the Word.
Please believe me that I am not being critical for I never criticise what I don't understand, I am trying to learn. |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 46
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:34 pm: |
|
Hallaluya, someone who can discuss without praying or rolling their eyes...
Purposeless! I read and understood your posting. I had to take it all apart, sentence by sentence, because your transitional phrases were messing me up...but in the end... This makes perfect sense to me. Because it is EXACTLY what I was taught! by my own non-denominational church.
And do not apologize for "sounding like a preacher." Your opinion of my not being saved is the exactly same one the Catholics hold of me!
So... after alllll the explanaition you gave, I guess the root of the whole discussion now rests on the phrase: "from those who are truly saved"
That has been and is the crux of the whole discussion board....
Actions (like beating children and sterlizing guests plates) or words (like calling a woman you've never met a Bablylonion Harlot) all seem to balance on the truth or fiction of WHO are the truly saved.
For one group, (yours, mine, the Catholics), to determine themselves to be that one and only chosen few reminds me of the warning Jesus himself gave.... Matthew 23.
Although, the term "fruit of salvation" is not a term I have found in any Biblical translation, I understand the manner in which you are trying to use it. However, we cannot assume that the results of others' baptisms should become rules for our living arrangements.
As I understood baptism, we are to receive the Spirit at baptism. (although it should be noted that some received the Holy Spirit BEFORE baptism!). Now the Fruit of the Spirit ARE listed in the Bible. (Gal 5:22)And it is not hard to expect these are good to have when a group wants to live in a closed, self-sacrificing association, as the TT do.
It's very easy to lay down one's life for a brother.
I have watched Christians of all kinds and have found, as I watched them interact with members not of their own little group, that I would be embarrassed to be associated with them. The TT is no exception.
But..in the end, again, we still are tethered with either going to or accepting someone from the self-identified "chosen" group for our salvation. (Assuming, of course, that we all HAVE to believe the Christians who tell us we NEED salvation!) |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 209.139.23.50
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:24 pm: |
|
most of what you will learn here is what I have... you will learn that pride is one of the main reasons people will not live under the authority of the twelve tribes... it is clear to me anyhow, and something I am quite thankful for... that I never met anyone like those you will meet here within the communities of the twelve tribes... this is mainly because they easily recognize these proud, hatefull and selfish spirits in their midst and cast them out... there simply is no room for such in their abundant life... best way to learn anything about the twelve tribes communities is to go and stay with them as I have... ask as many questions as you like and stay for as long as you like...
people here will claim they hide things from you... etc... and after living with them for any extended period of time you too will see that it is simply not possible when you are living and breathing day in and day out with a small group of people for weeks and even a month at a time as I did... ALL is exposed eventually... that is the purpose of their life... those that do try and hide simply cant... and this is recognized... and addressed... it has also become clearer to me why those who are no longer there are not... many tried and could not hide their selfishness , their hatefullness, their pride any longer... they were sent away or left... some are never allowed to return... and those are usually the ones that have become most hateful and vocal 'ex-members'... it re-affirms to me the fact that their life can pick out the truely bad seeds in their midsts... which has become so clear to me thanks to this board and other sites and articles 'against' the twelve tribes way of life... another thing I am thankfull for... this is not to say that those ultimately cast out where not given ample time and room and a path of forgiveness to follow... again pride, selfishness and hate simply makes that not possible for many...
what one who seeks can do is go and see for yourself... however those who are easily put off by the words they read here and other hatefull and proud sites speaking against the twelve tribes elsewhere on the net, well its better they dont go at all...
from what I have learned... those here and other places speaking against the tribes do them a great service as they ward off the truely hatefull, proud and selfish peoples... sadly this is the type of person that they have ultimately become themselves... which, like many you will find here, is why they were cast out of the tribes, asked to not come back, left, or simply never went and actually stayed with them to begin with... again it serves to reaffirm the fact that their life can recognize the bad seeds and keep them out of their way of life...
I have also learned that many will feel free to speak on behalf of others that are in the twelve tribes... saying what they 'think' and what they believe etc... this is often the case with a man named Yoneq... it has become clear to me that those who speak against others... and go as far as to speak on behalf of what others believe, etc... are the most proud indeed... with Yoneq, this usually comes from those who are closer to or around his age, as he is among the eldest in the twelve tribes.... they are simply to proud to ever submit to Yoneq or anyone in the twelve tribes for that matter... however since Yoneq clearly has produced abundant fruit which can certainly be recognized as apostolic in nature.... he will ultimately become the target of the most proud...
true seekers will go and see for themselves and will rarely entertain dialog with the hatefull and proud spirits you find here and many other places on this internet and even in the world... not to say nothing can be learned from such... however... one who truely seeks will eventually come to learn just as I have... which is partly why and what I have just shared... |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:17 pm: |
|
whereto2- then it is acceptable to visit one of the communities and learn what they are living? I want something fulfilling in my life that I have yet to find. I hope my questions do not come across as critical. I feel informed decisions are better than blind ones. Like I said before I will not criticize anything I do not undertand. Will someone from TT answer my questions about what I don't understand. I am 18 and raised in church most of my life but not satisfied with blindly following "whaat the church says". I want thus saith the Lord. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 140
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:27 am: |
|
where 2 2... why are you not in the Tribes? Why arent you submitted to their authority? Too proud?Unless... You are in the TT and are here under false pretenses!
Now that in itself should tell you something unknownunsure!!
The main reason I left was "common sense"and I dont mean the soap products either!
You guys are such snakes!!!!
and the only fruit Yoneq has produced are zombie cult members, broken minds, broken families and broken hearts.... |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 141
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:40 am: |
|
unkownunsure... please read this letter I sent to a college student who's mother asked me to write because she feared he was going to throw his education away and join the TT... please look at all the links too!
My name is David Pike and I was a member of the Twelve Tribes for 7 years. I also worked at the Mate' Factor there in Manitou Springs. I left the TT in 2003 from Colo Springs.
I want to ask you first off to not mention that you are in contact with me. They would tell you I am not of God but of the "Evil One". They would not allow you to communicate with me or anyone that doesnt agree with them. Lets keep this confidential until you have a chance to read and research this group, use some critical thinking (which they would call rebellious and questioning Gods direction and "portion" for you) and make a decision with your own mind and heart, before they control your every move and thought and you will be in the mindset that they are the only ones with the truth and to question them would be questioning GOD.
If you go in, and get baptised, you will no longer be allowed access to ANY information that they dont control. No internet, TV, newspapers or even all academics. They will teach you that everything, and I mean everything that you ever learned and know was taught to you through the tutelage of the "Evil One" and that they are the ONLY ONES that are saved. Everyone else are not. They wont tell you this right off the bat. They will teach you that no one since the first church, the first century, ever had the Holy Spirit. NO ONE until there leader, Yoneq, received it in the early 70s. The Jesus that you know and probably worship and follow is a demon. Their Yahshua is the true Messiah and ALL of Christianity is doomed to the "lake of ire" unless they "come out of her" and join the TT. They will tell you that if you were baptised before you met them, it didnt count. You can only be saved by their baptism.
If you know the bible well, you will see that they are putting themselves back under the "Law" and the book of Galatians could have been written by Paul directly to THEM!!! The entire book fits them perfectly. They could BE that church in Galatia!
Yes, it looks like a wonderful lifestyle but all is not as it seems....
Please look at these sites and read as much as you can. Then I would ask you to contact me and tell me your thoughts. I really want to help you make a educated and informed decision on your own, but you need to know both sides before you can do that. I just want to save you and your family from a lot of pain that many of us ex-members suffered through. Many lives and families have been torn apart and destroyed by this group and many others like them. Oh yes! There are others groups that live like the TT and claim "exclusivity with God". Seriously man, do some research, ask me ANY questions, and then make up your OWN mind. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 142
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:41 am: |
|
This is written by good friends of mine... read the archives too...
http://iottc.blogspot.com/
Bob Pardon and his wife Judy are personal friends of mine. If you mention his name to any TT member they will tell you he is one of the Evil Ones head men! LOL! He is the sweetest and most kind person you could ever meet. Here is his findings. Dont neglect all the red links at the top of this page. http://neirr.org/mcconclu.html
Here is a site put together by some ex-members. You might detect some bitterness on this site but it is well founded. http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/
here are some more writings from top experts on destructive high control groups.
http://www.rickross.com/groups/tribes.html
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/t/tribes/
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/t29.html
Now, as I said, there are many groups similar to them, today! in all religions!
heres a few lists...
http://www.rickross.com/sg_bible.html
http://www.factnet.org/CultGroups.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/apologetics.html
I hope this doesnt overwhelm you. Ive been doing alot of research myself. I even left and came back several times in the Tribes because I hpoed in my heart that they were "The Way"! But I am positive now that they are not. Speaking of "The Way" theres a group by that name that claims the same thing! I had a friend of the family that joined this group and after finally getting the courage to leave this group, committed suicide. http://www.ex-way.com/
Please write me back or call me as soon as you can and definitely before you go asking questions of the TT members. They'll tell you to"Stop your research now! Its of the Evil One!!!".
call anytime,,,608-276-3787 or email me at nabashalam@yahoo.com
Truly sincere.... David Pike
ps God gave you a mind so that you would use it and not rely on others to do your thinking for you.... |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 48
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:01 am: |
|
Does anyone recognize pride when they see it?
Let me make the point ... “The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.”
Does anyone here recognize it from a TT member/apologist when they see it?
When one criticizes, chastises or shames another for not being willing to “live under the authority of the twelve tribes” (“I’m willing, but you’re not”.) .... we see pride.
When one says, “It is clear to me” – they imply that they can see something that you poor, suffering, ignorant “proud, hateful, selfish people can’t... (“I can, but you can’t”.) ...we see pride.
When one says he/she have done something, even for as little as a month, that you haven’t done... we see pride. (a month? Are you kidding!? Try years... and then come tell us something.)
When one is brazen enough to say “one who truely seeks will eventually come to learn just as I have” ... we are definitely seeing pride!
(And the one that floors me...) When one brags that their group is able to cleanse itself by recognizing “proud, hatefull and selfish spirits” and ridding itself of “bad seeds” by sending them away ... we see pride. (I thought God/Jesus was supposed to do the sifting!)
And when they gloat that they have rid themselves of those people with pride, selfishness and hate, and imply they must be purer than any other group...we see pride. (I know, Jesus cleansed the Temple violently, but he certainly didn’t go running around Jerusalem bragging about it!)
And when we hear them say they gave those baser people a second chance to conform to their standards and to their group’s definition of selfless and humble and loving.... we see pride. (...and what happened to 7x70?)
No group of humans can be perfect...there is good and bad in all of us. When one will speak nothing negative about a group, we can easily discern that something is being hidden.
And when one criticizes others for “... saying what they 'think' and what they believe etc” ... we can discern a heavy hand of control coming at us.
As for Yoneq... every good leader of a group knows and expects that he/she will be the target of criticism and dissention. If a good leader feels something needs to be said in his defense, HE himself would come out and speak. (And are we seeing pride in defending him now?)
If those who are at or near Yoneq’s age are the worst offenders toward him, we can discern those people as finally having come of age and into their own mind. It’s called maturity.
I have no need to “go to” a TT community. Naba brought it to me for many years....and now I can see enough from those who come here. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:17 am: |
|
Here's the situation. I presently live with Daddysgirl and here dad and sister. Daddysgirl is my cousin. She tells me to ask a lot of questions before I decide. Randy tells me not to decide anything until I go there to experience and talk with them. His feelings is since I am 18, I no need to make decisions and take responsibility for my life. Whereto2 are you a member of the TT? If so, I would be willing to talk to you. I appreciate what Nabashalam and Soul says but I also desire to see for myself so I can better decide about my life. It is easy for supporters to be emotional and sincere about their life but it is also as easy to see the passion of exmembers. My instincts tell me the real life there may be somewhere in between (I may be wrong) meaning not as good as the advocates say or as bad as opponents feel it is. Thats what I need to find out. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 143
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
|
Then I say as your Uncle says! Go and taste it! But be sure that if and when you want to leave, to think about joining, they will put a severe guilt trip on you and tell you that you are questioning "Gods" will and portion for you...
There major weapon of control is guilt and fear...
Fear not my little one... Leave with no fear of Gods wrath or punishment. It just might be God trying to tell you "Get out while you still can!"
If all else fails, ask your Uncle to get you out!!!! He is a man of reason....and common sense. |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.179.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:00 pm: |
|
Dear Nab and Soul, Your last 2 posts were sincere and right on the mark!!! We all say things from time to time that are ...well lets say not as loving and mature as we should but the last 2 posts were mature and loving! Tom Q |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 146
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 7:53 pm: |
|
Well, even a blind squirrel gets a acorn every now and then... |
soul1958
Junior Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:04 pm: |
|
Dear TQ, Wow, Thank you! You stunned me with what I would consider to be a compliment of the highest order. *blushing* |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.150.198
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:34 pm: |
|
Shalom! |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 209.139.23.50
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 7:18 pm: |
|
I was never made to feal guilty or fearful for leaving... and i visited and left twice... in fact i was encouraged to 'follow my heart'... not only that... two brothers stood with me and prayed before i left which was very encouraging... and I was given alot of food to take with me as well... as I was driving out a brother i did not see before i left ran out just to say goodbye.... from my experience everything those here say about the twelve tribes has not been even remotely close to my experience their... it has been exactly the opposite on every count.. which is why many here are no longer aloud back or never even whent to begin with... those here as myself can do only but speak for their own experience... if someone sais they will make you feel guilty and fearfull it is because that is how THEY made people feel... remember people can speak for one person only and that is themselves... when someone speaks about another specific person... it is THEY who are using the mind control... which is exactly why they arent their anymore... the twelve tribes life is not even remotely about fear and guilt... it is about fellowship, joy, love and peace and overcomming... the fruit of the spirit... something those here can not overcome their selfish and hurtfull ways to produce... and that is that... |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 3:09 pm: |
|
I have been in contact with someone from TT and I am planning a visit for a few days. Im not going into it completely blind. I want to find where their heart is. I'm not trying to be overly skeptical of people on here just as I am trying to be equally open to what they say and what I sense. I don't mean any disrespect for people here for I know they mean well, but it is easy for them to point out all the bad points since they feel hurt. I look at their relationship as being somewhat like a marriage gone bad and people are only remembering the bad.} |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 156
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 4:29 pm: |
|
We who have left still have love for the people there (we know their hearts and they are good and we had the same one) and love of the lifestyle and yes, we do remember the good things but the heavy yoke of destructive control that goes on there overwhelmingly outweighs the good... |
soul1958
Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 1:25 am: |
|
Some people in bad marriages make excuses for the bad or cover up the bad, for a variety of reasons. (If you saw this bad, you would think them insane to stay. If they had known when they were dating what they know now http://www.enotalone.com/article/4112.htmlthey might not be in the situation.)
The ones that get out, will tell you WHY they got out. But if they told you how wonderful it was, leaving would make no sense and you would think them insane.
First wives will sometimes try to tell the second wife what they are getting into - but too often they are too much in love to listen or believe. Or they think they can change the bad behavior, or that it was the First wife's fault (b/c HIS version depicts it that way).
Maybe it's all just a level of tolerance who can stand to stay and who won't. |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 24.47.67.46
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 1:07 pm: |
|
i see no destruction at all... exactly the opposite... building up... the children by age 12 can already play multiple instruments, are talented artists... i have met 2 year olds that speak clearer than most adults... kind, gentle, compassionate... it is clear these children live lives exactly the opposite of what is claimed here... i have never met more happier or better adjusted children in my life... and the adults are master artisans in their own rights... greatly respected and are fine examples of human beings... we could be so lucky to have such examples to follow in our lives.... |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.152.81
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 5:05 pm: |
|
Ahhhh.. Now I think we understand.
Wto2 never entered covenant so therefor cannot possibly understand the inner hiarchy of government from the inside structure.
Wto2, if you look closely at the tree even from a non covenant veiw, you will see the true fruit.
Many fruits are beautiful on the outside and even can taste so nurishing and sweet.
However, most fruit today in all religion is poisened, infected and radiated. (as well as the fruit we buy at grocery stores).
I have observed the TT's for well over 20 yrs now and was a member fully.
I love, forgive and understand them on almost every level, although will never partake in their destruction of the true gospel of pure love, total truth and freedom, again.
In fact one of my biggest shames in life today is that I led others to partake in just another of the 'many christs claiming, "I am He"'of these last innumerable days.
} |
soul1958
Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.9.66
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 7:04 pm: |
|
BTOH - I hope the "shame" is healing.
Forgiveness exists outside the TT; I hope you received (and accepted) some.
If it's any help for you to know, I do not hold anything against David for his same attempts to lead me into the TT. I'm just happy he's out and healthy and seemingly happier (not distraught). |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 157
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 7:26 pm: |
|
 |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 8:51 pm: |
|
"I love, forgive and understand them on almost every level, although will never partake in their destruction of the true gospel of pure love, total truth and freedom, again."
beenthereonehat,
By this statement, it's sounds as if you now have a firm grasp on the true gospel.
Please, don't hold back, preach it to me,
for I am a truth_seeker! |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 9:01 pm: |
|
"pure love, total truth and freedom"
I like these words!
But, somehow they loose there meaning when destructive people mutter them.
I assume you would agree. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 2:46 pm: |
|
Do they tell you upfront they consider you lost if you are not one of them? Why do they think themselves "the only ones saved" if other groups also live "separated lives" and keep the Sabbath; etc. How are they different than other communities that on the surface seem to believe the same? Are they in fellowship with other groups believing the same or is it because the leadership doesn't want to share authority. If they are truly a community, why is there a neccesity for leadership and not have everything decided by consensus? Experience is nit necessarily a good criteria for makingone a leader for if the "Holy Spirit is guiding them" then it would seem to me that if you are "Holy enough" to join, then they should feel like the Spirit will even guide someone new to the community. "Community" seems to imply everyone would have equal say and equal ability to voice their concerns and opinions. This is my untrained and "view from the outside looking in at the concept. Maybe that's too independent thinking. |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.152.147
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 5:24 pm: |
|
Truth Seeker,
It is not in me to preach anything to anyone.
I can only write or speak from my experiences personally.
I actually miquoted one of my dearest friends who died several years ago. Was in a bit of a hurry and was just calling to mind deep things in an old and tired memory.
The true quote is as follows:
TRUE LOVE
PURE TRUTH
AND TOTAL LIBERTY
To me that is the pure gospel.
A learning of a lifetime of selfless giving.
Honesty in all communications with others.
Freedom from ill intent or hurtful motives gives one the liberty to do the first two.
Thank You for your response. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 159
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 6:32 pm: |
|
unknown, You should ask THEM those questions! And yes, that is good critical, independent thinking(hold onto that!)which would never be allowed there! Thats what would be considered "rebellious!". Dont forget, they are dealing with one heart, one mind, and that mind is Eugene Spriggs!!!! If you dont agree with any of their teachings, cultural practices, doctrines, dogmas or rituals you would be "cut off" until you repented, apologised and cried for forgiveness for being divisive! |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:44 pm: |
|
My question when people may say you should "just follow" someones teachings is "Why did the Disciples need to vote on who should replace Judas the Betrayer if they shouldn't have a voice. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 161
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 1:12 am: |
|
They would say "Your not an Apostle!!!" |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 10:51 am: |
|
"The true quote is as follows:
TRUE LOVE
PURE TRUTH
AND TOTAL LIBERTY"
beenthereonehat,
How do you think the twelve tribes destroy these ideals? They seem to stand for love, truth, and freedom as well. What's the difference? |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 162
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_%28religious%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.226.211
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 3:31 pm: |
|
Truth Seeker,
When one stands for freedom one should live it and let others live it as well.
There is little if any freedom for an individual to be who they were truly created to be when dictatorship of how to think, speak and act is a constant through hierchy, teachings and coverings.
Warm Regards! |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 4:03 pm: |
|
beenthereonehat,
Those who were a part of the sexual revolution stood for freedom too. However, I don't think it was the same kind of feedom the true gospel was all about!
Meanwhile, Yahshua told his followers that if they held to his teachings, (of how to think, speak, and act, etc) they were truly his disciples, and they would know the truth, and the truth would set them free.
Are you Faye, or Kim?
If so, there is something about your story you never shared with me, but I heard here on factnet. I would like to know if it is true that you, or she, left in order to marry a man the community did not think was a good match for marriage. It seems like that was an awfully significant part of why she left according to the posts here,
yet she never mentioned it to me when she told me about her leaving.
Please just disregard my latter inquiry if you are not Faye/Kim. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 163
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 9:05 pm: |
|
That was the least of it!!!
It was about who they MADE her re-marry!!! |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.155.117
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:50 am: |
|
Truth Seeker,
You are right. The freedom the sexual revolution was birthed from, came from a generation of parents (my own included) who the majority here in America may have had strict moral patterns though they lacked deep meaningful relationships with their children.
On the other side of that generation there of course were the martini and scotch partiers and the lower class that was beginning to be innudated with cross cultures with looser morals.
My wife says, they birthed a generation then gave them the broken tools their parents gave them.
Then the sexual revolutioners tossed those useless tools and acquired their own.(rebellion, arrogance, etc..)
They then birthed a generation(my wifes), that she affectionately calls "the backwash of 60's."
Mostly unwanted and uncared for children, in the most important ways!!
In fact it was her generation that began to produce masses of street/homeless children in America, but of course my generation doesn't want to own any of that and that of course has ony gotten worse.
My gerneration ended up becomming just like our parents and worse. At least we were mostly stablized in our enviroment, had structure and felt protected and cared for.
But we kept the dark closets of our parents pride.
Forgive my rambleings!?!
Naba is 100% right concerning Kim!!!
And that truly does not skim the surface with the many atrocities that young lady experienced.
Have a Nice Day Everyone! |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:32 am: |
|
Freedom of choice cuts like a double-edged sword. It gives people the choice to serve Abba or to serve the enemy. Those who choose to serve the enemy seem to be doing it with the same or more fervor than many claiming or desiring to serve God.
I love that the Father gave us a choice to serve Him. That makes our Love sincere not forced. We want children to love us because it is a sincere love, not demanded. When they show us genuine love, nothing is greater.
The most amazing thing about the Father's love is that is unconditional. Society in the past few generations I feel have and are trying for a "cosmetic love" that is conditional and not the Love the Father wants us to have. The Enemy has created in people a cheap imitation to what the father has. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 164
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.183.100.216
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:31 pm: |
|
That is sooooo black and white!
Lifes not like that!!!!
In eastern religions you can have something that has right and wrong in it, good and bad, yin and yang and that nothing in itself is perfect, even nature has its flaws, but yet again even with the good and bad in it can still be perfect in its way, in its "wholeness".
Now here in the west, you've got people thinking that everything is either good or bad, black or white and "God" is perfect and doesn't create the "un-perfect" but the truth is blaring! There is grey with many shades and hues!
So actually "Yahweh" could not exist without "Lucifer"!!! The myth cannot support anything with out an opposition. Opposing forces... A Hero and a Villain... and you are caught in the middle!!!!
Ahhh, but in the east, theses forces embrace and dint oppose and in harmony they create a symphony! This is the "essence", the "life" of the true "God".... |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 4:02 pm: |
|
I agree that we could not appreciate the love of Yahweh if it were not for the evil of the enemy.That's why I appreciate the fact we have a choice to serve or not to serve instead of being made as "robots" with no choice. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 17
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 12:36 am: |
|
Is Kim your wife, beenthereonehat?
Care to share your story? |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.155.100
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 5:04 am: |
|
Truth Seeker, seeks truth.
Therefor I shall tell it.
No, Kim is not my wife.
Truly a lovely lady and her husband a
blessed man. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 18
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:52 am: |
|
Kim once said to me that if I was truly a truth seeker I would inevitably have to join the twelve tribes and continue to seek the truth. Wouldn't you agree a genuine truth seeker would have to find out for themselves what the truth may be?
Still, I wonder, what freedoms you were denied which prevented you from being the person God created you to be?
Were we not created to be like Yahshua?
Is his father oppressive?
If He is, does that give us the right to rebel against him? Or should we suffer to do his will trusting he is, in fact, good?
Was Kim "MADE" to re-marry the father of her children? Was she married to him when she left the community to be with another man? |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.155.100
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 5:24 pm: |
|
"Wouldn't you agree a genuine truth seeker would have to find out for themselves what the truth may be?"
Yes.
"Still, I wonder, what freedoms you were denied which prevented you from being the person God created you to be?"
The right to think for myself and form my own opinions, beliefs and judgments.
"Were we not created to be like Yahshua?"
}We can only hope.
"Is his father oppressive?"
I do not know, however I hope you are always allowed the freedom to believe what you choose.
"If He is, does that give us the right to rebel against him? Or should we suffer to do his will trusting he is, in fact, good?"
Again, I do not know. I do know God gives all the right to do as they will and I personally believe it is always right though not necessarily fair or seemingly just, to suffer for what is good, right or true in your own estimation.
"Was Kim "MADE" to re-marry the father of her children? Was she married to him when she left the community to be with another man?"
This is a question you should ask her or her husband. |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 11:53 am: |
|
I hope Kim doesn't mind - I will fill in a couple blanks. When she came to the TT she was not with the father of her children. She married a man who eventually molested a couple of her children. She was not believed by some and not taken seriously enough by others. Although she wasn't forced, she was highly pressured into taking her husband back. She was not at all ready to consider it even if the story wouldn't have been true.
I was there and part of the government at the time. It was the straw that broke this camels back. There are many issues, this being one of the most severe, that are handled without justice or even respect. And then there are those in the TT that will say God uses these things to weed out the insincere. It sounds more like pride and denial to me. There is certainly no love I can see.
Later, her husband confessed and Kim never even was apologized to by the primary people involved.
I grieve these things because I still believe that God longs for a people who will truly love one another. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 4:29 pm: |
|
intransition
I had no idea!
Faye never told me anything about the abuse case being her own children. I gathered she was trying to press charges, and had to keep things confidencial, plus she said she didn't want to jeopardize her relationships with some of her friends and family still living in the community. Faye never even told me her name,
she really didn't tell me much at all...
I would really like to know
if any abuse took place in the twelve tribes,
or if it only occurred beforehand?
How did the confession come about?
Is Kim's ex-husband still in the twelve tribes?
Thanks intransition,
truth_seeker |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 166
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 216.106.250.152
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 5:08 pm: |
|
Looks like the cat's outta the bag!
To the TT...remember Kim had nothing to do with this topic coming up and has not commented on it. God forbid there would be repercussions about this!
The abuse happened in the Tribes and the last I heard the man, and I use the term lightly, was still incarcerated in a Fl. Prison.
You would have to ask in-transition about the confession. I was living in Brunswick when this happened and worked side by side with the man and was there when "Faye" made her escape.
I am so happy for her now that she has gotten a new life and a new loving husband and most likely would prefer to leave this all behind and not open old wounds... |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 20
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 10:38 pm: |
|
So, when Kim joined the twelve tribes was her husband abusing her children?
intransition, why didn't people believe Kim or take her seriously?
How did her ex-husband end up in the hands of the authorities?
When Kim escaped was she escaping from him?
In other words, was he still in the community when she left? |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 12:26 am: |
|
Those damn cats - kinda get away from you when you aren't thinking about all the implications. I thought more of the story was out. I am truly sorry.
At the same time, I want you, Truth Seeker, and others to know that things happen in the TT just like in real life. I don't think there is any sinister cover up but, like dysfunction in most families, the truth is not dealt with in an open and honest way. The focus gets switched to something like "she left because of her interest in another man".
I am not interested in getting into the details of the situation but I will say that this happened in the TT - there are many situations where people have attempted to deal with things, only to get things turned around on them. The problems, like in most relationships, are complex and involve everyone. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 8:52 am: |
|
Well, I do really want to know the truth about all of this, but perhaps this is not the appropriate place to discuss it.
Faye wouldn't tell me about it,
instransition wound tell me any more,
so I will ask if someone from the twelve tribes will fill in the rest of the blanks. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
|
intransition,
The hang up for me is not so much that the abuse occurred in the twelve tribes, it could have occurred anywhere...
but what I am most concerned about is how it was handled. You make it sound as if Faye was just brushed off about her concerns. Do the twelve tribes just brush off concerns about sexual abuse in their communities? I hope not!
I have a hard time believing this could be the case, however you are claiming such, which is why I wonder how the perpetrator ended up in prison. Did the twelve tribes, in fact, turn him over to the authorities, or did Faye file a report leading to his arrest, or did he turn himself in?
For me, these are the most important questions,
because they determine the protection of all of the children in the twelve tribes. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 11:49 am: |
|
intransition,
This is an excerp from the twelve tribes website.
It in no way sounds unloving or disrespectful.
Do you disagree with the honesty of their position represented here?
Regarding Sexual Abuse
We have nothing to gain and everything to lose by harboring any criminal. We have documentation that proves our position on this, along with law enforcement documentation that validates this statement. Such documents along with names and phone numbers can be provided.
We do not promote or tolerate sexual abuse of anyone, especially children. We understand the life-long effects sexual abuse has on children. There is no place for anyone who is this way to live with us. We are aware of the deceit that surrounds such a person and the murkiness of such situations. These things are hard to understand and even more difficult to expose, especially if the perpetrator is not wanting to come clean and confess his own evil behavior and deeds.
Yet we believe these people can be helped; knowing the first step is confession, we also understand there is no way out of this by hiding such behavior. Such a person should properly judge his wrong. The most dangerous child abuser is the one who does not seek such help through admitting his condition.
The word of God teaches us that the one who conceals his sin will not prosper. But the one who confesses, forsakes, and renounces his sin will find mercy. (Proverbs 28:13)
If someone who lives in or visits our communities is this way we can only trust in what we are able to understand and perceive, and the care our God provides for us as we trust Him. We have every reason to honor God and do what is right in His sight. We ask Him to deliver us from evil.
Dicky Cantrell
The Twelve Tribes |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 7:56 pm: |
|
This is indeed a can of worms that I did not mean to open up. I only wanted to clarify that it was not her interest in another man that caused her to leave. This abuse situation was the context in which she left. The situation was very complex, as you can imagine, and I could not begin to get into the details in a proper way. Also, I am unclear of the details after a point (arrest, cofession, etc.)
But I can tell you more of my story.
First of all, there was a serious attempt to deal with the situation - I am sure the website article is an accurate representation on a certain level. I was involved and tried to be advocate for Kim - the situation was not just brushed off. Her husband, at first had another story, and was believed by old friends (he had been in the TT for many years before her). His advocates had a mojor role in railroading their reunion. At this point Kim's feelings and testimony were discounted and pressure was applied.
She took him back but left shortly after. When I heard she left, I "repented" for not screaming louder as her advocate. I had voiced my feelings that things weren't dealt with enough and she was not ready for such a thing - but not loud enough. I was then rebuked For "not standing with my brothers". It was quickly downhill for me from that point on. I could no longer hold on to a faith that would not allow for openness and honesty. |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:15 pm: |
|
TS - you mentioned that your concern was primarily with how this was handled. That is the real issue here. Although there may be good intentions, there is often not openness and honesty on a deeper level.
The term "accusation" is used in the TT to point out the half truths and distortions that are usually present when someones finger is pointed at the fault of another. This, you might recognise, is a part of all of our experience - it is difficult to come to a full picture of any conflict without everyone being willing to take accountability for their part.
An important part of most peoples issues that have left the TT is that it is next to impossible to deal with authority above you without being "accused" of accusation. It is then impossible to find resolution. People end up leaving and the accusation flies from both ends.
I am sure you have seen this at work on this group. There have been those caught up in their anger that have slung many accusations at the TT. At the same time, the TT has flung accusations at those who have left.
The point I am making is that the TT gets as caught up in accusation as we who have left. It is the TT who refocuses the attention of a real problem on the person who leaves - creating half truths and distortions.
One of the issues that was up front for me when I left had to do with mismanaging finances. Among many problems in that area, we had agreed to pay a man who had financed our farm when we sold another property. When the property was sold, it was decided in the upper hierarchy that the money would go elsewhere. Without a plan, or even an apology for miscommunication, I was left holding the bag.
When I left, I was told that I only wanted to hold people to my strengths and standards. It wasn't true - I just wanted communication and an apology to the man who had helped us.
Just be aware - there are other sides to every story. Accusation works both ways. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 12:25 am: |
|
intransition,
I appreciate you sharing about your experiences,
and your right, our experiences are relative.
I can only imagine what it would have been like to be Faye and witness your own children being abused by someone who vowed to lay down their life for you! She must have been so hurt, and angry, and set on justice.
I am starting to put the pieces of the story together now, it is actually posted at an cult awareness website. It is starting to sound as if the twelve tribes were willing to find forgiveness for Jeff if he repented, and they sent him away to live on the boat, where I'm assuming there were no children, and then later Faye was asked if she would rejoin him. I don't think she did, it seems she ran away (with another man?) and sought justice through the legal system.
Well, it is a lot to ask to forgive someone like that...Faye made the choice she thought was best, and the twelve tribes made a choice they believed in, and I guess that is where the story stands. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 168
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 68.96.25.165
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:04 am: |
|
So it easy to see that the TT feels they are there own "God" and do as the "spirit moves them"...
Hog wash!!!
They put all the accountability on "God" to decide who gets paid and who does not! If they feel that "God" has lead them to put their finances down on someones "pet" project, thats where it goes and the other lenders (usually family members of TTers whom are not a part of the tribes) are left holding the bag! It puzzles me that the TT has picked up so many OT rules and laws, but pick and choose which ones they feel they want too! Through the whole TT "God" speaks against usury! Oh! but I suppose that doesnt apply to going into debt to the Gentiles aye?
So when they are wrong in anything, its "Gods" fault? Or are they just not "hearing Him" correctly???? "Better to be wrong together...." Just admit the damn thing! They do what they feel like, when they want and believe they are above the mortal mans law! How do they maintain a good conscience with out maintaining any assemblance of integrity!
BTW There where plenty of children on and around the "Boat Community"...
The offender even told me while in the TT he watched porn on the net and snuck into "strip Joints" but didnt anymore....
(Message edited by nabashalam on August 13, 2007) |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:48 am: |
|
TS - Kim DID rejoin her husband and, when she left, it was NOT with another man.
The point of my posts was to make that clear. The origin of "her leaving for another man" was TT accusation that refocused the situation from the real issue. This happens often when their accountability is not acknowledged. |
truth_seeker
New member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
|
intransition,
I didn't get the information about Kim leaving with another man from the TT, I got that information from a posting of Jacob's under sexual abuse part 2.
If Kim rejoined her huband, then her story is misrepresented on the rickross site which states,
"Peck told investigators she tried to divorce Leonard about six months after she reported the abuse. Tribe members told her they had made the decision that she could not get a divorce and that she should join her husband in Georgia, according to court documents. Peck fled the tribe and now lives in North Florida."
http://www.rickross.com/reference/tribes/tribes59.html |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:18 am: |
|
Jacobs words,
"The Community does not know how to judge it and is leaving it to the courts.
Kim isn't talking.
And Stacy is not credible.
Unless I have more than one credible witness, All that is 'real' is there is a man accused, in jail waiting to go to court, and is not guilty until proven guilty. Lets assume Kim and Stacy made a covenant with the Community and their Yahshua.... both left with men that they did not have an 'Amen' to marry and this is a serious break of standard/covenant and the Communities judgement in their cases is not strange from the Community's perspective, leading to discord by Stacy and Kim." |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.155.192
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 3:35 pm: |
|
Goodness gracious! I have missed alot in only two days.
Since the cat is out of the bag, I too can attest to the fact that neither Kim nor Stacey left for or with men.
We have spent extensive time with both of them and their families and can tell all here on this board assuredly, this is so.
In fact, anyone who was a true witness to there circumstances when or while leaving would know it was cetianly the hand of some almighty good that freed them and helped them once they had taken the first step out.
They were of course character assasinated by mostly those in authority who were not willing to own their own injustice, lacks or sin, if you will. |
anon_e_mus
New member
Username: anon_e_mus
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.168.252.51
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:42 pm: |
|
how sad |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:49 pm: |
|
beenthereonehat
Stacy has actually posted on factnet about unlawfully kissing Isaac right before she left the twelve tribes, and about how they are married now. Are you saying Jacob, who is an ex-member of the twelve tribes, is dishonest in his statement which is contrary to yours? |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.154.108
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 6:56 pm: |
|
truth_seeker,
Personally, I find it hard to believe Stacey ever considered kissing unlawful. And from what Isaac has told me, she told him to stay in the TT when he called her over a month after she left.
He also told me he was sent out with a blessing from the government.
Also, she tried to send him back several times.
They did marry and the responsibility of a family in the real world and Isaacs heart being still in community proved to be too much for him and he began to drink heavily.
He told me she forgave him time and time again but after awhile she called the community and begged them to come get him before he killed himself or someone else.
She confirms all of this as well.
I believe she and Kim were mostly in reality about everything before they made the decision to break free from the chains of control.
I do not know Jacob other than by his postings and I was pretty close with one of his roommates from the tribes.
I do not think I would go as far to say he is dishonest though maybe quite misinformed, bitter and damaged.
Cya |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 7:38 pm: |
|
Oh, I see, the men actually left after the women.
Would this be a more informed conclusion? |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.154.108
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:06 pm: |
|
Of course. Informed and accurate. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:48 am: |
|
Your posts make me nervous about even going to visit with abuse and control happening. How aware of these things are most tribe members. My Uncle says every group as long as it contains humans will have problems as none of us are completely perfect. It isn't if a problem arises that defines you, it is how the problem is handled. I think he is right. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 172
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 216.106.250.203
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 12:07 pm: |
|
Things of a infamous nature are not widely spoke about. They have the inter-tribal news letter but is highly scrutinized and "discerned" before printing.
Most negative happenings are handled very quietly and is not common knowledge, even amongst the clans of the same Tribe. But as everywhere, there is the grapevine and things do leak out of the TT government meetings... via husbands/ responsible single brothers etc. who are elders or industry heads or crew chiefs who voice their concerns or disagreements to their wives or "trusted friends" that they can't voice in the meetings without consequences...
So much for "one mind"! (unquestioning blind obedience)
So yes, they have problems just like anyone else! And yes, your father is correct again!
IT IS HOW THEY HANDLE THEM!!!!
Just ask in-transition! And I'm sure he can give you plenty of examples, and not just ones dealing with finances! |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:08 pm: |
|
unknownunsure
Maybe you shouldn't go and visit, lest you find yourself in the same predicament as me.
I guess when you love someone, you are willing to submit to them and forgive their wrongs.
I can't help but love Yahshua, and want to obey him, even if there is abuse and injustice in the twelve tribes, it doesn't change the love or the spirit who dwells in those who are one with him and his father.
Often times in life things don't seem fair,
and are difficult to understand, I suppose that is when "blind obedience," or faith, is tested and shown true. |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 209.139.23.50
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:54 pm: |
|
there simply is no abuse or control happening... it is those here who are heaping the abuse and are trying to control others... which is why they are gone from the tribes... most never allowed to return... no one within the commonwealth is making acusations against anyone... nor are they tearing down anyones character who has left... i have spoken to friends in the commonwealth specificaly about people here and they have had nothing but good things to say about them... tearing people down is not even remotely the way the commonwealth people treat anyone... including those who have left...
as always if you truely want to know what happens... or you have any questions as to the real circumstances of any issues that have occured within the twelve tribes holy nation you are always best to speak to them directly... that is where you will get a true and unbiased report... they have NOTHING to hide...
the exchanges and postings on this thread has indeed served to make even clearer why those who are not there are no longer... it is indeed a shame... |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 173
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 216.106.250.203
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 8:40 pm: |
|
How can you say anything with being in one community for a month or so?
You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors in the TT government meetings! Or for that matter the other 29 communities you didn't live in!
Your assessment is biased and invalid!
Just because you saw the outer layer of the onion doesn't tell you whats under the others...
Its like saying I went to this Italian chain restaurant only once and there lasagna was so good (even though I didnt see how it was prepared), so therefore all Italian restaurants in this chain are good and all the food on their menu is great!
Your apologetics are emotionally based, unfounded and ill informed.
This websites name is FACTNet!!!!
Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network!!!
Hello? I dont think theres a TT thread in the Destructive Religious Cults and Sects section of a anti-cult website with
19,140 posts on 894 pages because its a safe place to belong!
If one person tells you that your a horse, pay it no mind. If two people tell you that your a horse, you better think twice...but when 100s of people tell you that your a horse...wear a saddle!
The Twelve Tribes is a Destructive High Control Christian Fundamentalist Cult!!! |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 8:41 pm: |
|
unknownunshure - your uncle is absolutely right - it is how the problems are handled.
truth_seeker - you are absolutely right - if it is in your heart to surrender, by all means do it, at least you are going with open eyes and mind
where2to - are you saying that this issue of abuse is all made up? Your comments make a good illustration for my point about accusation. Those in lala land will be let down the hardest or maintain denial the strongest. |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:09 pm: |
|
truthseeker - your post left me a bit baffled.
There must be something that keeps you from the submission you speak of - why do you keep searching rather than surrender?
Love and forgiveness, of course, goes hand in hand (love covers a multitude of sins).
But, what happens in any relationship when accountability is not taken and denial compounds the dysfunction? |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:42 am: |
|
Tonight a modern day "Parable" was given to me by a family member that may apply. A man starts to buy a car. He asks the salesman. He hears all the praises of how the car runs and it looks and sounds great. The man contacts the previous owner. He gets mixed reports about the good and bad of the vehicle but is usually told the price the car lot is asking is too high. The man takes the car to a mechanic who fully checks it out and finds the car to be somewhere in condition between the salesman's discription and the previous owners evaluation.
Some will say the "mechanic" in this instance would be The Holy Spirit leading toward or away from what is before us. Some say the Holy Spirit can't speak to our hearts unless we belong to their group or belief. So what is left... a test drive? |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:47 am: |
|
One other thought just came to mind. Sisn't I read on here that the Twelve Tribe believes the Holy Spirit cannot speak to or direct you unless you become one of the Apostles or believers? I recieved an email from someone definitely promoting the Twelve Tribe that said if I have an open heart and open mind, the Holy Spirit will direct me and give me peace that the Twelve Tribe is the only Holy group and His Chosen. Isn't that a contradiction? |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 3:40 am: |
|
intransition,
You know, maybe I need to have my head examined,
maybe it's time I got over the twelve tribes after all. Because, how could I, in good conscience, bring my children into an environment where they will not be protected from abuse? It is in my heart to surrender to Yahshua, but not to a cult. |
beenthereonehat
New member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 137.118.154.108
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 4:27 am: |
|
Naba and Intransition have spoken well.
In Fact, so well I am in awe as everything they have communicated was in my heart when I awoke this morning and was going to post.
Cheers! |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:38 am: |
|
TS - I totally relate to your feelings. There are many of us, that have left, that truly desired to surrender to Yahshua. We wish that the TT would address our concerns. We wonder where to from here? |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:05 am: |
|
Maybe this is a crazy idea, but why don't many of you who are disappointed in the Twelve Tirbes get together and put together your own community. Do it void of the things you saw wrong in your personal lives and in the TT. Just curious. |
lauramarie
New member
Username: lauramarie
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.177.94.213
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
|
God has His people in many places. ANY time you hear that THIS group is the only one that God dwells with...RUN!!! What a lie from the enemy!! God has HIS people all over the world in all kinds of settings. Read His Word and seek Him first. Don't seek a group of people. We ALL want to live our lives for Jesus and follow Him. There is NO one place or group or organized Christian church or home church or commune or cave or wherever you have been TOLD by may that it's THE place where God dwells. When are we ever going to stop splitting the body up by being swayed by this teaching or that teaching? I have family in a cult that is total mind and emotion control. They are convinced that their "group" is THE true church and we are all pagans. There is SO MUCH in their life that I see as living a godly life, but the twisted teachings to keep a tight control over them is horrifying! One of the first things they are convinced by this group is that your "blood" family is NOT your family, but WE are your "family". So many cult signs but nobody can see them from the lies! Do they dress modestly and watch and teach each other's children?? yes! Do they give in need (whatever is needed) to each other in secret? yes. Do they attempt to teach their children about God? yes. Do they refrain from drugs/alcohol/parties/watching mindless TV/listening to anything "not spiritual"? yes. You can go on and on with the list of do's and don'ts but there is no real joy. NO freedom in Christ. Only freedom to do what the leaders say. So sad. So brainwashed. God has HIS people all over the world and in many places. Don't believe otherwise. (I mean people who believe in the Trinity and agree that Jesus Christ is God) I am so sad at all the messed up people I am encountering in false teaching groups that started out all wanting the same thing. |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 71.167.66.17
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:30 am: |
|
the people that are no longer inside the twelve tribes ARE what was wrong... that is why they are no longer there.... they could not overcome... that is the shame... |
fatherofaking
Intermediate Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 228
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.157.134
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:26 pm: |
|
whereto2
you must be a very sad person.
you are not a member of a group of people that you believe are the holy ones of god.
you say that it is a shame that people like you are not there.
they cannot overcome.
what you seem to be doing on this message board is ironically, chastising yourself for something that you think you ought to be doing.
you don't have the courage to stand up and take responsibility for your own actions so you come here and condemn others for the things they do and say.
i would imagine you are a very depressed individual.
there is no balance in your thinking.
any severe imbalance in our thought process will cause depression.
if i am way off on this i apologize of course.
i do not think so however.
if i am correct, i would hope that you would reconsider what you are doing here.
you might want to see a therapist instead.} |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 32
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:43 pm: |
|
FOAK,
You had intentions of returning to the twelve tribes for quite some time. Did you see a therapist? Is that why you have changed your mind? |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 33
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:57 pm: |
|
intransition,
Why can't anything be done to change the things that are wrong in the twelve tribes, (like accusing children of having sexual spirits so that their perpetrator can be exused of their pedophilia)?
Is it right to just walk away from that, or should you continue to speak what's in your heart? If the TT government doesn't kick out pedophiles or perverts, they certainly won't kick someone out for speaking their heart! |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 35
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:30 pm: |
|
What were your concerns, intransition?
Communication?
I don't understand, I thought everyone was supposed to communicate openly and honestly in the TT. Why would anyone not? I thought decisions were made as a consensus, not individually. Is it that you had conflict with the consesus of the government? I thought you were in the government!
So, back to Faye, I gather the government believed Jeff that he wasn't really molesting Faye's children (only that he thought about it). What a difficult situation. Were their no other options for Faye? You said she wasn't MADE to go back with him. |
unknownunsure
New member
Username: unknownunsure
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:27 pm: |
|
This isn't directed toward anyone:
WOW, no wonder there have been more wars started over religion and beliefs than any other reason. Such passion and little give by some people. Not a criticism, just an observation. |
truth_seeker
Junior Member
Username: truth_seeker
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 74.140.182.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:49 pm: |
|
Oh, what am I doing, going round and round like this...Whatever happened with Faye happened with Faye, or rather Kim, and the same with the other situations.
Do I trust in God or not
to follow what is in my heart?
Bon voyage!
It's time I take a leap of faith,
hopefully I won't end up splattered on the sidewalk...
hopefully Yahshua will save me,
and he will find faith on the earth
when he returns!
Shalom |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.145.150
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:59 pm: |
|
TS, Whatever you do DON'T abandon your family!!!! We are to love YHWH with all our heart,soul and mind and our neighbors as ourselves!! NOT abandon our family that our Father has blessed us with and to love with all we have in our being!!! TQ |
sabbathkeeper
Junior Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.145.150
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:07 pm: |
|
TS, I have been pushed and pulled with the same desire for "community" and to submit to YHWH through Yahshua!!! BUT the TT's ARE NOT the only ones!!! Maybe they are??? NO WAY!!! Was my wife the "only one" I could have married and started a family with? NO!! BUT she is NOW!!! Praise YHWH! I have submitted to her and tried ,trying to love her and our children with my whole being!!!! TQ Shalom!! |
daddysgirl
New member
Username: daddysgirl
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:59 am: |
|
I pray for healing for those on here who are hurting. Our Father would want us to be whole and heal. Only the enemy would want us to hurt and be confused. God is not the Author of confusion, but the Author of Peace. |
intransition
New member
Username: intransition
Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 24.240.74.67
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:13 am: |
|
TS - do you know anything about the studies of addiction, abuse, and other forms of family dysfuntion? I think they are very relevant to the problems in the TT. Denial is at the heart of the problem and open, honest communication is the only hope. The words are there but not the reality.
Is it right to walk away? I don't see other options. The result of staying is co-dependency - I became a workaholic (one of the socially accepted addictions in the TT).
Intervention is not a possibility. |
lauramarie
New member
Username: lauramarie
Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.177.94.213
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:04 pm: |
|
"I have been pushed and pulled with the same desire for "community" and to submit to YHWH through Yahshua!!!" Every true Christian I know in the whole world is seeking the SAME thing. Nobody has a corner on the "only way to live the Christian life". Every group I encounter that thinks they have the "way" ends up deceived and controlled and the joy and freedom Christ offers is stolen. I feel bad for your "group". I have been on the bus, I've seen your literature and gone to the websites, drawn by the same thing all of you were drawn by. But I have seen the destruction that comes with the "dysfunction" and I loved intransition's words "the words are there but not the reality". That is EXACTLY what I see in the cult that my family is involved in. Sorry, but THEY think they are the ones that are living for God the "right" way. |
whereto2
New member
Username: whereto2
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 209.139.23.50
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:24 pm: |
|
that is because they are the ones... thankfully we have the book of acts that records the life of those who labored to restore the israel of god... a tree is known by its fruit... and christianity is not producing it... christianity is a harlot that will give you just enough to lead you astray into a comfortable worldly life while giving you the illusion that you are actually serving the most high... when in fact you are not... |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 175
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:40 pm: |
|
whereto2,
Would you like a list of how many common purse Acts2&4 communities exist outside of the TT? There are many!!!! And most claim to be the"Only Ones"!!!
http://www.rickross.com/sg_bible.html
http://www.factnet.org/CultGroups.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/apologetics.html
So what are you doing here? Are you a current member? If not, why? |
lauramarie
New member
Username: lauramarie
Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.177.94.213
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:17 pm: |
|
That's the point!!! You ALL think you're the ones and can produce whatever "evidence" is needed to convince yourselves of that! There are Christians ALL OVER the world who love God and live their lives for Him, loved by Him, rejoice in His salvation. You have all been told you're the ones! Jesus is THE ONE, we follow HIM. He is THE way, THE truth and THE life. My family believes the LIE they are the ONLY ones....Jesus is the ONLY one! Any argument that any person or group has the only answer and they are the only ones walking with God deceive themselves! That is part of the brainwashing! You are NOT the only ones (or only way) You have to get your eyes off of you and your "lifestyle" and get them back on Jesus. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 177
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:50 pm: |
|
Your preachin to the choir sister, and some of us here are agnostic so your "Praise Jesus" chant just makes us giggle!
and about getting out of "yourself"...
"you gotta get in to get out!" |
daddysgirl
New member
Username: daddysgirl
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 8:55 pm: |
|
"that is because they are the ones... thankfully we have the book of acts that records the life of those who labored to restore the israel of god... a tree is known by its fruit... and christianity is not producing it... christianity is a harlot that will give you just enough to lead you astray into a comfortable worldly life while giving you the illusion that you are actually serving the most high... when in fact you are not..."
It's about time you "holier than thou" people stop referring to we who are Christians in one lump. How arrogant it is for you to place all Christianity or Christians together and tell us what we believe and what we don't. That is sheer stupidity! I hope you can feel good about your constant condemnation and bigotry of us.
I have NEVER said I think my beliefs are the ONLY ones. We are judged based on "working out our own salvation with fear and tremling" (in other words I serve God the way I understand He would have me to. I do NOT criticise your right or Nabashalam's right or Anon's right or anyone elses right to choose HOW they serve the Master. To have people tell me what my Father has taught me and what I have learned studying the Word is a lie or brainwashing means you feel like YOU are my judge. I'm sorry but I have not found in the Scriptures where God ever appointed you to that position.
I do finds some things wrong with some of the teachings in some of the churches. I find things wrong in ANY group of worshippers. That is because we are human. I have to answer to the Father, not those so narrowminded that they can clump us all together and say we are ALL living a lie. |
stillserving
New member
Username: stillserving
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.98.157.3
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:44 pm: |
|
The question is ,where will one end up when he strives to do the absolute best he can in regards to following the scriptures?Can we all be humble enough to admit that this is not just a matter of opinion....The words are written clearly in black in white for a reason.So who is doing it?who is talking about doing it?and who is worried about being judged for not doing it? |
daddysgirl
New member
Username: daddysgirl
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:49 pm: |
|
Stiil serving... "black and white" but still subject to interpretation. Common living, who are the 144,000 is major areas of teaching of the TT. I will repeat a question asked by both my cousin and I. "If common living is a necessity for salvation based on Acts, then why did Yashua tell the woman as well as others "Go and sin no more" not come and give up everything for us to decide how it is used and sin no more because we are Holier and know more than you do.
That is just one of many questions that we have to work out for ourselves. Believe it or not, even my father and I do not totally agree on everything but I honor him and his beliefs. At the age of 30, I cannot and should not follow anyone blindly and he would never ask me to. If I am not willing to follow him blindly and I have watched his life for 30 years, why should I follow people I don't know and let them tear down my life and judge me as part of a harlot who believes lies all my life. None of you know my personal life and have no right spewing such vile. You have no idea how we live our lives and how those in "our community" live and believe. May God forgive those of you who are as abusive in your tone toward Christians as you say the TT are toward you. If anyone should realise how badly this hurts, you should understand yet some of you show no love or caring for others feelings: it's just whether or not you can win a debate or arguement and get your licks in on those who don't agree with you.
Yes, I am VERY upset. |
randyspenser
New member
Username: randyspenser
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.49.198.243
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:04 am: |
|
A few moments ago I just walked past my daughter typing on the computer and crying. I haven't been on here for quite a while due to health problems, but as father I wanted to see what was happening.
My daughter is well able to express herself and her feelings and beliefs. I will make just one comment- This thread is about discussing the Twelve Tribe and their beliefs and actions. It is NOT about Christian or Christianity bashing. Such shots just gop to ruin any credibility for they are said with malice and no love for others. The Master was interested in drawing people to Himself and when He chastized people, He knew what lives they were living. Who among you here absolutely know enough about the life of my daughter or myself that you can judge us. Sorry, God did NOT give you that power. |
nabashalam
Intermediate Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 178
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.128.244.102
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
|
AMEN!!! |
soul1958
Member
Username: soul1958
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 75.100.1.16
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |
|
This thread is really cute to watch. I emailed David last night and told him it’s becoming a hoot to read.
Now you have (30-year old) girls crying and daddies scolding. And a judgmental Christian-basher hollering “AMEN” himself. (O! Thank you, Lord Jesus, for this thread, because The View was just a repeat, with Rosie O’Donnell on it.)
After watching and reading these Christian-on-Christian debates growing, Randy’s argument appears pretty much as the most logical – within the Christian religion.
Although, I’m content to let you all wrestle within your own Christian realm with any doctrinal interpretations, it appears to me, however, that you’ve all become myopic in that respect.
Now, with all due respect to Randy, for I appreciate his common sense in these matters, I do have to point out that –
Christian bashing on threads like this is inevitable.
Randy is correct: mongering one religious belief over another is an unsubstantial debate practice.
Unfortunately, the esoteric nature of Christianity gives it the very quality necessary for Cults which rise from it.
|
