| Author | Message | ||
     jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the earthly representatives of the NWT's "faithful and discreet slave." They derive much power from this claim. Holding such a position allows them to wield absolute power over the lives of 6 million people. What proof do they offer to back up their claim? How can they prove that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave? | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: Yes, the JW’s believe to have the Faithful and Discreet Slave, aka Steward or Manager of God here in the earth and the Catholics believe that the Pope is God’s personal representative (same thing) on earth today! OK! With responsibly comes “relative power” that can be revoked by both God and Man! And yes, you are indeed correct, for those who aer JW’s Catholics and or others, and even in business, those who believe such things, hold themselves, to General Submission as if the Pope of the GB of the JW’s tells their flock to jump off the Empire State Building, one who hope no flock members would jump, though some just might! Nothing to back up their claim other than what they point to in scripture, as some entities make the claim because they just do! And if you to believe that the Pope is who he is, good for you, if you don’t good for you, and so it goes with the JW’s and others! Ok, that’s very true! Now what? P P.S. Dude you must have no life or responsibilities as you certainly have a lot of time on your hands! A bit angry. Yes???? | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
Sorry, I asked for proof backing up the claim that the Governing Body is the Faithful and Discreet Slave. What proof is there? I certainly don't believe the Pope speaks for God, and citing the fact that other people do does not help your position in any way. Are you saying that JW's are as crazy as Catholics? What we are looking for here is Biblical or historical proof that the group of men in Brooklyn who call themselves the Governing Body, actually are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. P.S. Your last comment is rude and uncalled for. | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: I do not think any man can give you what you want from any religion though there are some who claim God cures people through them and that may indeed work for you! Other than that, I don't think you can get the “proof” you want! And my drawing on comparison for you to take it out of context is simply not fair. But I guess in the end, the fairness like beauty is truly in the eye and mind of the beholder! The scriptures were not written simply for nothing and someone or body, must be God’s approved people on earth or it is all in vein! I am simply unaware of what scriptures you are using to back up your position that the Church of God today (which is claimed by others besides JW’s) can be given the hard core “proof” you want or need! Perhaps this can be done in another way; If you believe that there are scriptures, that you can refer to, to give “Prove” who are God’s people today, please share them and if you find the group of Church you believe is the people of God on earth today; I will find you a group of imperfect people that make mistakes and will •••• people off etc. The JW’s are the only ones to my knowledge that have ever made the claim to be the ones described in Matthew 24:45-47. :Let me know if you others that claim the same thing. My closing comments are rude, they are truthful! Hey you’re the one with the anger issues whose Mom isn’t speaking with him and who makes contradictory posts on here! P | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
praetorian said: "The scriptures were not written simply for nothing and someone or body, must be God’s approved people on earth or it is all in vein!" Really? Why? I again ask, What proof can be offered that the Governing Body is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? You are dodging the issue because there is no proof. All there is is their claim, and your belief in it. This really is a simple request, I thought someone who claims to do as much research as you have could answer my question. As for contradictory posts, prove it. P.S. You can't goad me into angry responses by mentioning my mother, and it's pretty tacky to even try. I ceased being angry over this religion a long time ago. Now I merely find it amusing, just like your tap dancing routine. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Why? Because these the things discussed are mentioned in the Bible! I am not dodging the question I just cannot address it to your satisfaction. I just cant! OK. Hey, my wife says I dance pretty good! LOL | ||
| jeeprube Junior Member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.28.53.82 |
You know, my point here isn't to offend you; sorry if I have. I just think that before someone gives their entire life to a religion they deserve to know why it's leaders are given the respect they are. I know you want to confine things to a single thread, but I just can't effectively respond to each issue on one thread. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 121 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Dear Jeeprub: Thank you for your kind apology, however, please know that in the end, you never offend me no matter what you express, as the taking of offense rests in the bosom of the stupid ones, something I try my best to avoid, but in the end does get the better of me every now and then!!! (Ecclesiastes 7:8, 9 “Better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning. Better is one who is patient than one who is haughty in spirit. Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones.) I totally agree with your statement; I just think that before someone gives their entire life to a religion they deserve to know why it's leaders are given the respect they are.” I do not want you to do anything that limits your effectiveness, my point is that it is quite cumbersome to keep up with posts in different threads, (and easy to miss) as the last thing I want to do, is miss an opportunity to address something thereby giving the impression that by omission, I am in agreement with something or that I do not wish to respond. As I tell my children, (meant as a compliment to you) so I tell you here; I never lie, I may choose to never answer questions, [and I will express that] but I never lie, regardless of the cost to me and or others, and of that you, (even though you do not know me, as I tell my kids this) you can count on! I asked that you do this for ease of communications, but in the end, if you must do so to make better points, for whatever reason, so be it. Keep in mind this board may eventually close and I wanted you to have my email for future reference: praetorian_g@hotmail.com (underscore after the n_g) Sincerely, P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.151 |
praetorian, so far you haven't provided any evidence that your gov body is "the faithful slave" appointed by god........ when exactly were they appointed to rule as "god's only visible organization on earth"? in 1874?........ was that date "food at the proper time?" gosh, your leadership sure makes big claims! here is what they said in their "the finished mystery book" around 1917... "in the year 1918, when god destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions, it shall be that any escape shall come to the works of russel" ........wow!...it sounds like a cult to me. are you sure it's god's organization? | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 139 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: First of all, I never said they are my Governing Body, but instead responded to you! The proof you desire or require will be no more forthcoming from them as it would say the Catholic Church (though meaning anyone claiming to be Christian) that states that the Pope is God’s spokesman on earth! As far as what they believe in this regard, the members of the Governing Body are made up of JW’s that believe in the same things!!! Therefore it is reasonable that those appointed from among them, to act in that capacity of management etc, will believe the same things as all other JW’s. Ok, now what? They believe what it says in Matthew 24: 45-47 that Christ will work with a group of Christians that will manage Christ’s belongings on earth, and they believe they are it! So should any other sincere Christian, believe that they are it! The scriptures are the ones that speak of this faithful slave and their duties, not the JW’s. They just feel they fit the bill! As to the date please be more specific as to the event you are referring to in 1874 so I can attempt to provide you with a comment. Your statement my leadership…you know what one does when one assumes right? OK…Now then, again, what is your point about 1918? Look, dude, the Bible has clear chronology and JW’s were not nor are the only ones that see this. They predicted that in the 1914, back in 1879, was going to be a special year, that would affect mankind forever, and that God’s Kingdom would be set up etc. and that Armageddon would take place. People forget that while Armageddon did not occur, monumental events did take place, WW1, a date that changed the world you and I live in occurred and changed the face of life forever! Yes, Armageddon did not happen!!! They ate humble pie, admitted it, they had too! You can’t hide that contrary to your assertions that they do! So what are you talking about!!!! As to the establishment of the Kingdom of God, they believe it took place in that year! Ok, and you don’t. Crawly, tell me, when God worked with the Jews exclusively for thousand of years, were they a cult? According to your definition they were! Christianity replaced the Jews, and it was one Christian Congregation period, up to the time of the last Apostle John. Was that a cult? Later history clearly shows (and so does Bible prophesy) that there would be many who claimed to be Christian, though true Christians would be identifiable? Is that the cult you refer too? It is people that have dissected Christianity, not that Christianity should be like that. In the end, why is Armageddon coming; to kill and destroy who? Everyone YOU choose! P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.139 |
pratorian, you still haven't provided any evidence what so ever that the gov body of jws is god's appointed organization...... you just seem to be blowing smoke, but that it normal for false prophet supporters because that is all they have. matt 24;24 russel had a lot of fun counting the cobble stones in the corridores of the pyramids of egypt to arrive at a fake coming of jesus that somehow appointed him and his group to rule from 1878 on. wasn't it nice of him to then condemn all the churches of christianity and claim they must submit to him or die?.... did you enjoy that quote from him?..... what a nice guy. the wicked gov body of jws today still claims the same thing!........ yet if you ask them about it they deny it or blow some smoke and change the subject. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 145 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: I am sorry, perhaps you missed my post above, “Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 6:54 pm” in reply to you, which says in part, “..The proof you desire or require will be no more forthcoming from them as it would say the Catholic Church (though meaning anyone claiming to be Christian) that states that the Pope is God’s spokesman on earth”; already responds to this, and I can add no more or no less to this, to which you refer to as “blowing smoke.” OK! Therefore, perhaps the question should be that if you believe that you have found the “TRUE” Church or Organization from God, then perhaps you can share with us the “PROOF” you have and are using as a measuring rod so that I and others here can plainly understand what you mean by proof! Please tell us, inquiring minds want to know!!! And of course do not blow smoke! Matthew 24:24 can apply to you as well, especially since I already demonstrated in one post that you patently lied and misrepresented facts!!!!! Russell, and those with him, did in fact do what you represent about the pyramid, and they also believed in Christmas, the Cross and many other things that are clearly pagan that coincidently most Churches in Christendom practice! And as time went on, he and those with him, had the humility to make changes that they saw were not bible based despite this being not a popular thing to do. The date you refer to is actually 1879, and is not again as represented by you! This is the year they started publishing their bible base journals. The JW’s feel that they received this appointment as Manager, Steward etc, some time after the establishment of God Kingdom, which they believe is an actual ruling government that was formally set up some time in 1914. However, they do not believe that this gives them so sort of divine inspired uttering’s! Russell nor those with him ever said, “SUBMIT TO ME OR DIE” this is another lie (and I have been exposing your angry ignorant parroted statements and lies on these posts) instead they as they do today, do their best to tell people that false doctrines that have roots in paganism offends God and that those who offend God, will obviously suffer the consequences. Now if you feel differently so be it, but this does not sound like people looking to offend God but rather to the contrary, please him! Fellow, I have not changed the subject matter on you here, and I have done my best to keep on point with you, so your claim of blowing smoke is not only misplaced but instead seems like it is coming from your end of the computer screen! I have replied to you, and shown up your lies. It is also clear you feel they are wicked and you are indeed entitled to your opinion. They don’t feel they are and there are several people who are not JW’s who respect them and feel the same way, that they are not wicked! Sadly they believe differently than you and many or most others, but that fact in and of itself does not make them wicked no matter how strongly you feel about the subject! Wow, go calm down and find a life! P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.66 |
hi perytorian, here is what russel said........ it is very simple, are you getting confused some how? "in the year 1918, when god destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions, it shall be that any escape shall come to the works of russel".....finished mystery | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Ok, now the year you have now chosen makes better sense! It is good to note however, that your previous representations of 1874, 1878 etc, were simply wrong despite your assertions to the contrary. Concerning that, I can say that they definitely thought as stated before by me above, that the Bible has clear chronology (not numerology) and JW’s were not nor are the only ones that understood this then and now. They accurately predicted that the year 1914, way back in 1879, was going to be a special year, one that would affect mankind forever, and that God’s Kingdom would be set up etc. and that Armageddon would take place. Now, while Armageddon did not occur, monumental events did take place, like WW1, a date that changed life on this planet forever! As to the Kingdom of God being set up as a real government at that time, they believe that this in fact took place! Now when Armageddon obviously failed to materialize they began to look at the chronology again, from the stand point that the Bible cannot be wrong, but that they were obviously wrong, and so began to think that this might have application to the end of false religion taking place in a literal way instead around the time of 1918. This, they later came to believe had more of a spiritual application, than a literal one, as applying to those leaving false religion due to what they felt were ongoing discoveries with doctrinal error in main stream Christendom. Again I submit to you that at time, Russell and his associates, believed much of the pagan doctrines that people like you believe today, and you are right about pointing out these errors because they did happen, and then learned from these mistakes. Again showing that nothing here about them is hidden and that all people are subject to making mistakes! You sure seem bent on making sure they are so bad and evil, so that you can feel good about yourself! In the end, many a Bible character was wrong, many times, some more serious than others, but that did not mean that God did not use them or view them as his people! P. | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.252.235 |
yup pratetorian, russel claimed all christians must submit to his wicked leadership or die! wasn't that nice of him?...... did you read the above quote yet? his teaching was that jesus arrived in 1874, and then eventually selected his group to rule........ jws taught that all the way until the mid 1940's. then they swapped some dates around, like they always do, and came up with another return of jesus in 1914, and sota claimed they never really said the first one..... geez, what lying false prophets they are!..... gosh, faithful slaves would never "self-appoint" themselves.... only the wicked ones do that...... matt 24;24 | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P | ||
| crawly Junior Member Username: crawly Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.67 |
jehovah's witnesses gov body would like everyone to ignore this fact about them;...they are wicked false prophet liars. russel claimed to be in charge of all the sheep, appointed by god by a fake coming of jesus in 1874...... later, after all the faithful slaves figured out he was a liar, he disfellowshipped them, and then died. his successor, rutherford, later swapped all the dates around, and then claimed to be in charge again....... they were wicked false prophets, working the matt 24;24 scam | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 212 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.45 |
here is what russel said; "in the year 1918, when god destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions, it shall be that any escape shall come to the works of russel". ...finish mystery wasn't russel a sweetie?....... good thing he died his way out of that mess. matt 24;24 | ||
| mariabee New member Username: mariabee Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.85.244.43 |
There is no more proof than their own claims and tricky use of language and mind control techniques to convince millions of others that they are. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 228 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Mariabee, I know how you feel, though would you not say that this is an opinion as they not only have millions of members worldwide some were formally disfellowshipped, which should not be discounted. P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.69 |
currently the jw organization is shrinking down in size due to the information about their cult available on the internet. right now there are more ex-jws than current jw members. and the ex-jws are familiar with the jw cult tactics and are exposing them........there are many ex-jw sites offering this information about the jw cult, and the horrific experiences they went through. the jw organization certainly is not the faithful slave that they claim to be..... they are the wicked haughty self-appointed slave, who beats all of his fellow slaves..... matt 24;24 | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 265 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Craw: Wow and Duh! | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.238 |
the reason the jw organization is shrinking in size is due to the abundant information about them and their history of lies available on the internet......a lot of it is published by ''ex-jws'' who know the matt 24;24 scam that the gov body of jws is working. that is why they forbid members to do independant research on the internet about them and their history........ it is a cult tactic. | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 133 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.120 |
ask the jws who come to your door if their leadership is ''faithful and discreet''. who are they faithfull too? certainly not jesus........ jesus warned about self-appointed false prophets who claim he already arrived, and so you must follow them or die...yes, jesus warned about such wicked men in matt 24;24 ask them; is it faithful to claim jesus arrived in 1874 and appointed them to rule?........errrr, um, ok 1878, wait.......errr, 1914 errr, but he appointed us to rule invisibly, err... the real humble faithful slaves are waiting for jesus to return, not boasting about a fake invisible coming of jesus that appointed them to rule........ the ''faithful slaves'' do not 'self-appoint themselves' with wicked demonic numerology, and then condemn everyone to death who disagrees with them. but of course, jws will quickly hurl some insults, and then attempt a change of subject. they have been conditioned to think that they must remain faithful to the jw leadership, and that that is what being ''faithful'' is all about. | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.33 |
is preatorian faithful and discreet? does he represent the ''true worship''? lets examine the facts; he claims to be a disfellowshipped jw, in his no. 3 post, while in other posts claiming not to be a jw at all, and so he doesn't have to submit to the gov body of jws' rules, while he suggests you believe their doctrines, as he promotes the jw leadership who claim that anyone who is not a jw will soon die. so, to sum it up......... yes, he is just jw leadership lying to suck you into the cult......... jesus warned about those snakes in matt 24;24. |
