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     jeeprube New member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.39.194.240 |
In reading comments on this board I am struck by the attempts by active JW's to deny the Watchtower claims of being a prophet. Please notice what the Society itself has said on the subject: *** Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 ‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’ *** So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? … This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. … Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. I wonder why it's so important to sweep these past claims under the rug? Jehovah's Witnesses have a strong history of predicting future events which do not happen, 1914 is the best known, but there are many others. With this in mind it is easy to see why Witnesses are trained so well to deny any past claims of prophesy, and to highlight the "simple Bible Student mistakes" line of reasoning. The Watchtower has made many mistakes in the past, it's members will openly admit to that. Then they will tell you that their leaders were merely human, who made mistakes. They will ask for our forgiveness and patience with them, and to remember that they are still God's channel. Does God really work this way? By using people who print false things, demand that we follow such teachings, to the death if necessary, then suddenly abandon such teachings under the guise of "new light?" Any rational person would reply no. To operate in such a manner would be foolish, and God is no fool. Jehovah's Witnesses have proven to be false prophets. That is why it so important for them to deny any past claim to being prophets. But they cannot hide from their own words. | ||
| praetorian Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Dear Jeeprub: (Part 1 of 2) I here repeat my post to rebel8 under the link “Totally Confused!” my 7th, dated Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 1:35 pm, for you to munch on while I tell you here that of course they believe they are the instrument of truth and that God is working with them and thus there statement and sincere belief that they are the ones that “acts as a "prophet" of God” is no different than what all sincere believers in God should feel! However it is the use of the term “prophet” by them that needs to be fairly examined! Do here it goes again: “Dear rebel8: Thank you for the information as I was able to find the article you referenced in line with the quote you refer to in your post, on page 7 of the June 8, 1986 Awake; The article is entitled: “Would that All Were Prophets!” Please note what the first paragraph of the article states below setting the theme for the article itself which is at issue here: QUOTE: “POPE John Paul II addressed the following message to a gathering of Bible-loving Catholics: “I send cordial greetings to those who are participating in the General Assembly of the World Catholic Federation for the Biblical Apostolate and I assure them of my spiritual closeness. I am happy to be informed that this assembly has found inspiration for its theme in the words of Moses, ‘Would that all were prophets’ (Num 11:29), and that it has applied this expression to the tasks that it will undertake.”—L’Osservatore Romano, August 24, 1984.” For the sake of brevity I now quote the first two sentences of the third to the last paragraph (which itself is a quote) of this article along with the last two paragraphs in their entirety and please, carefully note what it states here below: (3rd the last paragraph two sentences only) “The New American Bible correctly states: “Prophet means ‘one who speaks for another,’ especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!” Pope John Paul II said: “The ‘prophetic office’ of the People of God must be consciously exercised as a true service of the Word.” (Second to the last paragraph in it’s entirety) “In its final declaration, the World Catholic Federation for the Biblical Apostolate expressed the need for Bible education, particularly among the young and the poor, for inexpensive Bibles and Bible education literature, for Bible translations and Bible translators, and for full-time workers. It further stated that all Christians should preach and teach, live by the Bible, and “discern the signs of the times.” Continued below: | ||
| praetorian Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Continued below: (Part 2 of 2) (The last paragraph in it’s entirety) “You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Out of love for God and his Word, they are carrying on a universal Bible educational work among old and young, rich and poor. They have hundreds of thousands of full-time voluntary workers, some of whom translate and print Bibles and Bible educational literature that is distributed inexpensively, or even free of charge. They are assisted by millions of part-time workers. Any of these will be happy to help you “discern the signs of the times” and embrace the wonderful hope contained in God’s Word, the Bible.” The above quote can indeed be expressed by any sincere person, group or entity that truly believes that they worship God in Spirit and Truth! You will note that the setting for the phrase “prophet” is laid out in the first paragraph of this article as to how it is being utilized by the JW’s and indeed others! Unfortunately, this quote and others like it in the past and present have been taken out of context and many times even twisted to be re-stated as “fact” and used against the JW’s (others experience this too) on several subjects (like when you posted in another string under Hiding the Truth, that they are against Jews etc.) thereby perpetuating lie as truth in order to further ones personal agenda or besmirching campaign etc. Rebel8, it has been my experience that people “believe what they want to believe” when they are “for”, or “against” something, without taking the time to truly get to know “all” of the facts! Your thoughts?” End of quote! Jeeprub: The bible is full of mistakes and errors made by all of God’s servants including prophets, priests and Kings that specifically represented God Himself on earth! The fact that they made mistakes did not in any serve to support that they were not servants of God! We can start with Peter denying Christ to King David that committed gross sins including the immorality with another mans wife, and then put a hit on the ladies husband that killed him etc. etc. etc. of people who blatantly disobeyed God! How about the priests who had allowed their sons and daughters to earn a living being prostitutes in the temple of the true God, while honest hearted people had to go and sacrifice and worship God etc. Did this prove that this was the wrong or false religion? So again I ask you; what is your point? P | ||
| praetorian Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Continued (Part 2 of 2) (The last paragraph in it’s entirety) “You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Out of love for God and his Word, they are carrying on a universal Bible educational work among old and young, rich and poor. They have hundreds of thousands of full-time voluntary workers, some of whom translate and print Bibles and Bible educational literature that is distributed inexpensively, or even free of charge. They are assisted by millions of part-time workers. Any of these will be happy to help you “discern the signs of the times” and embrace the wonderful hope contained in God’s Word, the Bible.” The above quote can indeed be expressed by any sincere person, group or entity that truly believes that they worship God in Spirit and Truth! You will note that the setting for the phrase “prophet” is laid out in the first paragraph of this article as to how it is being utilized by the JW’s and indeed others! Unfortunately, this quote and others like it in the past and present have been taken out of context and many times even twisted to be re-stated as “fact” and used against the JW’s (others experience this too) on several subjects (like when you posted in another string under Hiding the Truth, that they are against Jews etc.) thereby perpetuating lie as truth in order to further ones personal agenda or besmirching campaign etc. Rebel8, it has been my experience that people “believe what they want to believe” when they are “for”, or “against” something, without taking the time to truly get to know “all” of the facts! Your thoughts?” End of quote! Jeeprub: The bible is full of mistakes and errors made by all of God’s servants including prophets, priests and Kings that specifically represented God Himself on earth! The fact that they made mistakes did not in any serve to support that they were not servants of God! We can start with Peter denying Christ to King David that committed gross sins including the immorality with another mans wife, and then put a hit on the ladies husband that killed him etc. etc. etc. of people who blatantly disobeyed God! How about the priests who had allowed their sons and daughters to earn a living being prostitutes in the temple of the true God, while honest hearted people had to go and sacrifice and worship God etc. Did this prove that this was the wrong or false religion? So again I ask you; what is your point? P | ||
| praetorian Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
sorry for the double post above... P | ||
| jeeprube New member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.39.194.240 |
My thoughts are simple, you are arguing semantics. You know as well as I do that the WTS believes itself to be the spirit appointed messenger of God on Earth. In the past, as in the above quote, it has referred to itself as a prophet, and yes it has time and again attempted to foretell future events. What you are attempting to do is misconstrue the original,and ongoing, intent of the Society to proclaim itself as God's messenger. You can write pages of rebuttals to that, the Societies words speak for themselves. | ||
| praetorian Junior Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Dear Jeeprub: Now we have entered into the realm of opinions! I “feel” that I have indeed addressed your issues that you “feel” are semantics and in response I say, OK, you are entitled to both your opinions and feelings! And no pal, do not assume here (you know full well what you do when you assume right? If not let me know and I will tell you) that I “know” or even think like you on this or anything else, as this is the presumption you make in your post! Now that’s silly ins’t? Again how old are you? For the sake of attempting to clarify some of the points you raise and seem to grind together as “one” I will try to break down what I think you are referring to, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are young, inexperienced, or simply not careful as to what you place in writing etc. 1. Quote: “You know as well as I do that the WTS believes itself to be the spirit appointed messenger of God on Earth.” Answer: You are assuming here what I know or should know! I do not agree at all!!! Now the spirit appointed messenger you speak of, may have to do with the fact that they call “anointed” what some bibles (older ones) call “saints.” And yes they do in fact believe they have the truth about God on earth and that, because of this, that they enjoy God’s favors and blessings and that yes, God is using them; which is a far cry from their believing or you for that matter, that they are “inspired” messengers of God and thereby infallible! 2. You then express: “In the past, as in the above quote, it has referred to itself as a prophet, and yes it has time and again attempted to foretell future events.” This has been addressed here by my on various posts, and pal, you are simply wrong about this, and when you find the article on this that states so plainly, then let me and others here know about it! These references by them have been twisted, abused and reused to fit something they are not (make sure you don’t get any counterfeit bills OK—Remember the valley girls for inflection) and only add that; “acting” as a father (imitating) and “being” a father are two totally different things! They are not the same!!! Your next statement is an another assumption and we all know what one does when one assumes right; Quote: “What you are attempting to do is misconstrue the original,and ongoing, intent of the Society to proclaim itself as God's messenger.” I am doing nothing of the sort, I, not the JW’s or the WTS is responding to you here pal, and you know nothing about me as one does not have to be a JW to know what they believe or step to the plate to correct ignorant and false statements. The same can be asked of your intentions pal, what truly are they! Everyone is stupid and you are not???!!! Enlighten us please! And add to this: I AM TRULY SORRY YOU FEEL THIS WAY!!!!! I do however totally and wholeheartedly agree with the last statement, of your post: “You can write pages of rebuttals to that, the Societies words speak for themselves.” And on this note, I conclude as well! P | ||
| jeeprube New member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.39.194.240 |
That's a typical response. First you threaten me, then you insult me, then you attempt to drown me with words. My age is irrelevant. What is at issue here is the Societies claim to be a prophet. You assure us that they do not, yet in their own words they do. It's that simple. You can dance around all day and tell us that what they actually meant was such and such, but in a real intellectual discussion, that means nothing. They called themselves prophets, plain and simple. I have the quote to back it up, you have the pseudo-babble to disclaim it. Your reasoning may hold water within your religion, but in the court of intellectual opinion it does not. Please proceed with a three page dissertation on why I am wrong. | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: At prior engagements, will reply tomorrow! Tata for now, P | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 53 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Dear Jeeprub: (Part 1 of 2, and a little less than two pages in Word) What are you expressing? You call my response, “typical”; typical in what sense? Now you state, “First you threaten me, then you insult me, then you attempt to drown me with words.” Where Sir, did I threaten you or anyone on this board? Please point this out, as this would be unacceptable behavior, to say the least, and should be reported not only to the administrator of this board, but most importantly to the authorities as well, immediately!!!! Please do so, in order for this to be fully addressed as if I did this, action should be taken against me appropriately!!! What is good for the goose is good for the gander! As to “drowning you with words”, I am not truly sorry you feel that way, as it is not my intent. I find that it is very easy thing to “throw a stone” as opposed to cleaning up the mess, repair or replace the damage caused by the simple act of throwing the stone! This is true of any postulate or issue! My apologies if you felt that I was drowning you! Is this the perceived threat, my words are drowning you? I suggest you develop a tougher skin for life skills as my responses are nothing when compared to what you will encounter in the world of business, work place etc! I mean this sincerely! Your response on age is accepted, as I can’t do anything here to the contrary and was raised by me as the approach and style you are using is more akin to a “younger person” than one older and or more mature! It was not meant as an insult, but rather an observation, strong, but observation none the less! I am sure you have met professors that are that way, and if you have not, you will! You have made your point about the WTS’ claim to be a prophet, and I have addressed the same starting with the references you quote as support for your position, that supports the position to the contrary! I tell you truly fellow (as you don’t like pal) if you were in a court of law and attempted to make an issue like this with the references you used, it would be thrown out in court, as you are “interpreting” what the articles state, in plain and simple English quite to the contrary! Fellow, you certainly have the right to believe what you want to believe despite what is in print! So be it! Just know that an atheist, journalist, or literary expert (with no bones to pick) can read the sources you refereed to differently than the manner in which you have chosen to “interpret” it! And you are indeed right about this, though not as you would wish, that it is indeed “that simple!” (Continued below) | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
(Part 2 of 2) You then state, “You can dance around all day and tell us that what they actually meant was such and such, but in a real intellectual discussion, that means nothing.” You remind me of the young man who lived during the time of the great philosophers, (this is a story---K) and walked into the arena and challenged all there, and said, “I am the smartest man alive, and I want to challenge the one whom you all say is the smartest among you!” Then all the great philosophers huddled together and first, among themselves, reason, “wow, this may indeed be the smartest man we may ever meet” and then all agreed that they would put him against Socrates! The young man was puzzled, because out of all the great minds of then world he thought the least of Socrates, and inquired, “Why Socrates?” to which they replied to the young man, “he is the only one among us, that knows absolutely nothing!” You are right young man, in your intellectual circles, and possibly many others, or even most or all, I would not know anything at all! Now what? You are smart and I am “not” ok! But what does that have to do with my responses to your posts that I have done, to the best of my apparent limited ability to do? It is what it is and it is not as you wish it to be! Be honest with yourself at least on what I point out starting with your own comments and in particular references to support your comments; other than your opinions as we all have them the same as noses!!! Fellow you do not know my religion as one does not have to be a JW to know their beliefs and express them to discuss the lies about them, especially the ones that you use as a reference source that do not support your position! I know that this may be “pseudo-babble” from your stand point, but it still stands to reason, that what you show does not support your position! Hey try that same approach with your professors and show them a quote (within the context as well) in plain and simple English and then tell them that it really means this or that’ what you want or interpret it to mean! You end with “Please proceed with a three page dissertation on why I am wrong.” First it is you fellow, that demonstrates you are wrong by yourself, against yourself, and I have done my best to keep this down to three pages or less! Please do not forget to show me where I “threatened” you, and by all means report the same to the appropriate authorities, as this is not acceptable, and is the right thing to do in this circumstance, if it actually took place as no one is above the law! Sincerely, P | ||
| jeeprube New member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.50.53.175 |
Pratorian said: "You are right young man, in your intellectual circles, and possibly many others, or even most or all, I would not know anything at all! Now what? You are smart and I am “not” ok!" You misunderstand me Pratorian. I do not think I am smarter than you. On the contrary, your words prove that you are a very intelligent person. I did not mention that I went to college so that I could prove how smart I am, I was merely responding honestly to you questions. I'm going to be real with you. I didn't come crashing onto this board trying to attack you. I actually respect you. Your defense of the faith is very good. It is true that I am also still a JW. I haven't been to a meeting, out in field service, to a memorial observance, to a District Convention, Circuit Assembly, or Special Assembly Day in over five years. It's lonely out here Pratorian, a feeling you've perhaps never felt. I've lost my family, and every friend I ever had, not because I broke any Biblical commands, only because I've questioned the validity of the Governing Bodies claim to be God's channel. I really don't know how to explain the way I came to that point. Perhaps it is because my mother raised me with an unerring sense of right and wrong, and when I saw my fellow brothers and sisters being abused I could not take it. You've spoken of the fact that their are brothers within the organization who do take too much power, and perhaps abuse the flock..... you encouraged me with that. You actually remind me a lot of my mother, who hasn't spoke to me in many months. Pratorian, you need to know something. We have been trained for decades to fear and hate "apostates." Under current teachings I fall into that category. But I do not hate you, I don't hate any true JW. I actually miss my former brothers and sisters. I am not hate filled and demon inspired.....I'm hurt and abandoned. I've been mistreated and thrown to the wayside, and I've met many people just like me. I do not wish ill will to my former brothers and sisters, indeed there is not a day that goes by that I do not miss them. My words are not meant to hurt you, but to challenge the Governing Body; a group of men whom I believe have lost the spirit of Jehovah. I think that I will refrain from further negative posts regarding JW's here and try to limit my words to cautious criticism. I also apologize for anything I've said which might have offended you. | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub I will be able to read your post for a reply on Monday upon my return. Cheers! P | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: (Part 1 of 3 I hope, could be 4) This will serve to address your post above on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 6:27 pm. There is no need to address the first two paragraphs and please know that I feel like you do, when you state, “I was merely responding honestly to you questions.” I will take you at your word that you are going to be “real with” me and know that I respect you and your views as well, despite our disagreement on issues and my mannerisms, as we all have equal rights to our views! I understand that you are a JW that does not go to meetings and therefore is not involved in the ministry etc. and as such for the folks on this board; the JW’s call a person like this simply, “inactive.” Also, for you folks on the board, you apparently have not been hunted and hounded down by the JW Gustapo and disfellowshipped, yes, no? You express that it is “lonely out here”, a feeling that all humans, and as one, I have felt and know well. You say that you lost your family (which I understand to mean you mother, though not sure of you have a wife etc as I do not know what you totally mean by this) and every friend you ever had, because you “questioned the validity of the Governing Bodies claim to be God’s channel.” I am sorry you went through and are apparently still going through this, as I nor anyone else cannot address fully why people around you are doing what they are doing to you, as they may perceive things differently than you are explaining them or feel; as there are two sides (some say three…) to every story. How long did you study in order to commit as a JW? Were you raised one? It appears that you did get baptized, as if you did, I find it hard to understand that the JW’s did not go over things with you, from the Bible and their viewpoint that they, the JW’s “believe” (right or wrong, this is another discussion) that they are the only ones that have the truth about God and so on, and perhaps you should have taken issues with them about that then! Presuming, that you did, (because I don’t know) and were “active” (meaning for you folks on the board, someone that is going to Congregational meetings and engaged in the ministry etc.) then something must caused this epiphany, or change of thought, as the “thought” of their believing that they have the truth, is not or should not be new to you! Also, what should not be new to you, is that they believe they are (as represented by the GB; as well as should others who are sincere about their belief toward God could or should believe) that they are “God’s Channel” or champion for worshiping God in Spirit and Truth. (Again, I am trying to explain something here, not taking on the cause against those who believe differently here). So I don’t know what to say, on this matter, because (as stated by me before) a group, association, church, educational institution, or business has the right to dictate the rules or beliefs of their structure to the group or associates, so long as they state so clearly (disclose) up front what the terms of engagement are, so one is not blinded sided by something not previously expressed! Whether one agrees with this or not, this is a simply axiom of life! (Continued Below) | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
(Part 2 of 3 could be 4) Now, you go on to discuss how you were raised, and we hope that all are raised with a functional view as to right and wrong, and go onto to say, “and when I saw my fellow brothers and sisters being abused I could not take it”, okay what abuse? As to abuse, there are ways to address these types of wrongs in any group, church, association, business etc. and again this is usually expressed up front in the process, (on how to handle the same) and if you don’t agree, that is when you take issue, or flight! As it is one thing to do so after the fact, when it is pointed out to you, or you are the one with whom they have an issue with; especially when a matter is handled or addressed in a certain way, that you are not in agreement with, but is in agreement with the way in which it to be is addressed within the group, or church etc. You go to express, that “You've spoken of the fact that their are brothers within the organization who do take too much power, and perhaps abuse the flock..... you encouraged me with that. You actually remind me a lot of my mother, who hasn't spoke to me in many months.” This is wrong, however, they are in fact people, that think too much of themselves, in any discipline and is not peculiar to the JW’s, as they are not immune to those who are stupid, morons, stubborn, proud etc. among them! If I encouraged you with certain things that I said, good for you, as this is a principal at work in life, and not just among JW’s when it comes to how to properly view things so that we do not get harmed in the process by taking these things personally! My reminding you of your mother; is the first time I have been compared to or have heard that I reminded someone of their mother, (I don’t know what to say) so I will take this as a compliment!!! LOL…..I am sorry she has not spoken to you in months, and only know your side of this equation, which is not enough to comment on appropriately; but will say, here son, that you need to call your mother, and tell her, you LOVE her, despite what you are, or believe in, from the bottom of your heart and tell her, that her ignoring you is causing you much immense pain! (The same as you would if she were a Buddhist, Catholic and had problems keeping you apart etc) Add to this a very strong amount of prayer, supplication, to open up your heart to your Father and God and his Son, for help in this regard first and foremost, and ask your God and Savior to open you mothers mind and heart to your personal problems, (visa-versa) as you may not see things so clearly yourself, as you appear to indeed be in a forest because of the trees! This is a personal problem you need to address for yourself, and between you and your mother!!! Now ASAP!!! Do this for you and her!!!! Now with that in mind, you were the one that expressed that she taught you right from wrong, and have you ever thought that as a younger person, (than she is) that you just might be wrong here, and she is trying (as best as she can, and while I would not agree with her treatment of you) to deal with you in a manner to cause you to think about your course of action? Right or wrong, we as parents, of which I am one, don’t always deal with our children, fairly or the best way, in error, but in the end, (speaking as to functional parents) they do it with the best intention of the child at heart, coming most definitely from a good place! Hopefully you can see that! (Continued Below) | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
(Part 3 of 4) You then state, “Pratorian, [sic] you need to know something. We have been trained for decades to fear and hate "apostates." Under current teachings I fall into that category.” Then do something about this! First, you know that whether JW or not the foremost and greatest Apostate is Satan the Devil, and so are the demons and obviously the people who are like them. What I mean by apostate is well described at www.dictionary.com under the sub-definition by American Heritage Dictionary as “One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.” So the question is, did you? Or did you have questions that make you look like you are one? A lot in life happens over the manner chosen to deal with things, and with us as men; it is usually a contest of wills, or Johnson’s which is wrong! I learned a lesson many years ago that cost me 120K to fight an issue for a fee (on a matter of principle) of only 12K, that was owed me, and no need to mention who truly lost that battle! A lot has to do with the way you present yourself in matters of serious doubts and questions etc. and then with humility to know the difference on how to do this, on top of knowing when to truly be humble! It takes a real man to know when to eat humble pie and when not too; like when to fight! You, and I, all of us as people, men and women have the ability to do so, and when we don’t our Creator can and will give it to us the ability to anything if we ask him! (Ask a lot not just once). Keep something in mind, Moses, was not always pleasing to the “people”, God’s people, and in fact, his position and way of doing things, was questioned by his own sister and brother, to only have God intervene and do something about it to make it right! Moses apparently •••••• off a lot of people; making them feel that he lost God’s spirit etc., (on many occasions) to only in the end, have God settle it for him! You see, God did not remove Moses, simply because he rubbed people wrongly or did wrong things! People back then (as they do today) took his leadership personally, and did not view it as if it was from God, (or today based on the Bible) and as such they paid the price. (Continued Below) | ||
| praetorian Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 77 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Whatever the religion you believe, in, if they claim to be the “truth” or true worshipers of God, his channel, Stewart, Manger, Faith Slave, etc. and you choose to believe in the tenet’s of that religion, then you should let it work for you, and allow God to make all things right, because in the end, all he has to work with are imperfect people, no better than you or I, though having the responsibility to over see things, and spiritually fee their flock, and this respect needs to be shown them, as it says in 1 Timothy 5:17-21, “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. For the scripture says: “You must not muzzle a bull when it threshes out the grain”; also: “The workman is worthy of his wages.” Do not admit an accusation against an older man, except only on the evidence of two or three witnesses. Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear. I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to keep these things without prejudgment, doing nothing according to a biased leaning.” Your last statement took courage to state, whether it is right or wrong for you to say it, “I also apologize for anything I've said which might have offended you.” It is I who need to apologize to you for things I have said to offend you Son! Listen, it is all about loving our God with ALL of our heart, mind soul and strength and to loving his Son, and respecting him, by doing obeisance to him, and recognizing him as his Father and our Father, wants us to! And in turn loving people, imperfect people in much the same manner! This means however, that we TRUST him implicitly to set things right, and also that we patiently count on him, wait on him to do so, not that we take the bull by the horns (so to speak) but let him and the Head he chose, none other than Jesus Christ address all issues, you just LOVE Him and Trust Him, and the rest will be taken care of! In this world there are a lot of problems, I am still learning and I am old enough to be your father and have come to know that I truly know nothing! What little I do know, I know well, just like you!!! Since this has taken a turn to more personal issues, please feel free to contact me any time at my personal email address which is: praetorian_g@hotmail.com Sincerely and with Warm Christian Love P P.S. The red dots above can also be stated as Moses "ticked" off.... | ||
| jeeprube New member Username: jeeprube Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.250.211.46 |
pratorien said: "So I don’t know what to say, on this matter, because (as stated by me before) a group, association, church, educational institution, or business has the right to dictate the rules or beliefs of their structure to the group or associates, so long as they state so clearly (disclose) up front what the terms of engagement are, so one is not blinded sided by something not previously expressed! Whether one agrees with this or not, this is a simply axiom of life!" Yes, I agree with this. What I do not agree with is enforcing a rule as if the enforcement came from Jehovah himself. Within the JW congregation there are several sins which will trigger a Judicial Committee. Some are Biblical and some are organizational. I take issue with the organizational ones. If a man is committing adultery on his wife, it is Biblical for the elders to step in, but there are many things not even mentioned in the Bible which seem to carry the same weight. To me this has caused a Biblical process to be used as an organizational enforcement tool, a means to control people. This is part of the "abuse" I spoke of earlier. Pratorien, I know that there are many good hearted, honest elders in the congregation; but, there are also a lot of twisted, power hungry ones as well. For some reason these men often rise to the top, and as such are in a position to use the total power given to them by the disfellowshipment process to control the flock. I've seen it done. My problem is not with the honest hearted JW's who believe they are doing what is right, it is with the leadership who have corrupted God's word for their own benefit. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Jeeprub: I agree with you about the right for you to feel the way you do. I have replied many times to this same subject matter on point, that there are things that the Bible does not clearly deal with today (specifically) that are dealt with, within the principals found in scripture! There are many people that feel differently than you and you certainly have the right to your opinion! I truly respect that! You feel this can be abused and I do too, and so it was abused in the Bible with those who were God’s servants! Under the Nation of Israel there was the strict system of worship of God which was indeed controlled though the system was indeed abused, and for those not in power, it meant instant death (speaking as to being truly unfair) and control under the Christian system or structure of worship was also done in the Bible in the First Century, as one needs to manage these things, however that too can be taken out context as well as abused! You then state, “Pratorien, I know that there are many good hearted, honest elders in the congregation; but, there are also a lot of twisted, power hungry ones as well. For some reason these men often rise to the top, and as such are in a position to use the total power given to them by the disfellowshipment process to control the flock. I've seen it done. My problem is not with the honest hearted JW's who believe they are doing what is right, it is with the leadership who have corrupted God's word for their own benefit.” If there were as many twisted people among them as you state, we would call that here in the US Congress…LOL. The fact that there would be bad people among Christians is prophesied in the Bible and is further exemplified in the parable of the Wheat and the Weeds, where the reaper is told to allow them to grow together until harvest time, and then they will be weeded out! This is inevitable in any religion especially one that believes it has God’s Blessing! Boy, you tired me out today! It must be that youthful vigor. May I respectfully suggest that if you desire to banter back and forth with me, that you avoid doing so in several strings on this board, out of respect for it, and also for this old man that can better keep track of your posts in one string please! Your call! P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.151 |
yup, the leaders of the jw organization, "the gov body" claim to be god's modern day prophet, as described in the first post on this thread. yet when you question them about all of their false prophecy, they all of a sudden claim not to be prophets and say they never claimed to be a prophet! ......jesus warned about false prophets in matt 24;24... they are very good at lying. later, after they get done telling you they are not guilty of deut 18;20, since they are not prophets, they remind their followers again that they are "god's mouthpiece on earth"......... then if you question that, they remind you that they never really claimed to be "god's mouthpiece on earth", and so the are not guilty of anything at all, especially deut 18;20. later, they remind their followers that they are "god's only appointed vessel on earth, the ark"........... if you question them about it, they claim they never really said that, ...... do you get the idea yet?........ they are expert liars... jesus warned about them in matt 24;24 and 2 thess 2;2. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
You need to read the remainder of this thread as the claim made above was totally inaccurate so why don’t you read the other posts below the first one, even though you don’t agree. Ok, you feel they are false and that is your absolute right, though there are many and several who are not JW’s that would not agree, as I don’t. So, your opinion better than mine, bigger than mine;;; oops now that sounds like a person problem you are having son! If you know the Bible you are quoting then you know that this was Moses instructions to the people, part of about 613 laws, and regulations that applied solely to the Jews. This is not an application to Christians, as Christians are not under the Mosaic law from which you quote! Being used a human Manager or Stewart, simply makes you that, no more no less, an imperfect being with a responsibility! You are making it more than they claim it to be! Since you have drawn a line in the sand, show me please where in their publications they said they are the inspired of God, and act just like a Prophet of old when it comes to making predictions. I await your response, but a reading on this thread above shows that this subject was already addressed! P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 141 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: You need to read the remainder of this thread as the claim made above was totally inaccurate so why don’t you read the other posts below the first one, even though you don’t agree. Ok, you feel they are false and that is your absolute right, though there are many and several who are not JW’s that would not agree, as I don’t. So, your opinion better than mine, bigger than mine;;; oops now that sounds like a person problem you are having son! If you know the Bible you are quoting then you know that this was Moses instructions to the people, part of about 613 laws, and regulations that applied solely to the Jews. This is not an application to Christians, as Christians are not under the Mosaic law from which you quote! Being used a human Manager or Stewart, simply makes you that, no more no less, an imperfect being with a responsibility! You are making it more than they claim it to be! Since you have drawn a line in the sand, show me please where in their publications they said they are the inspired of God, and act just like a Prophet of old when it comes to making predictions. I await your response, but a reading on this thread above shows that this subject was already addressed! P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 142 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: The thread shows that you posted here, after me, though I did not see it. Sorry. I will check it later or tomorrow! P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.139 |
it's very simple folks, the gov body of jws are experts at claiming to be his "appointed organization" .."his modern day prophet"... "his mouthpiece on earth",...while at the same time denying it to avoid deut 18;20. even when you show them in their own publications the claims they make, they will look right at you and claim it doesn't really say that. that's how false prophet snakes operate!... they are good at it.. matt 24;24 take a look at their rev book, it's grand climax at hand, pages 167 or so as they claim to be the two prophets of rev 11. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 143 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Your assertions are totally false as this simple reply will show. You can in your anger, stubbornness, or unreasonableness believe what you want to believe, however, it should be done with fairness, quoting things accurately not as you do with blatant lies! No matter how much a Christian organization albeit JW or other, claim to be God’s appointed channel, organization etc. (which is a claim any sincere Christian should be able to make) they are NOT under the Mosaic law, which includes what is stated at Deuteronomy 18:20, no matter how hard you wish to force the issue!!! Jesus was the last Prophet, and no one can take his place in Christianity-PERIOD! You are misstating what they clearly represent though you do one better, as you outright lie in the remainder of your post! I have had different experiences than you when showing a JW a publication from their own libraries, with changes! If a person makes a mistake they should be willing to make corrections and changes as that is the reasonable and Godly thing to do, now to do otherwise and blatantly stick to something due to pride etc, in view of proof or evidence to the contrary, now that is not right not Godly! I did what you asked and checked with Revelation Book page 167 and find no such mention of any claims or comments about their being a “Prophet” or inspired entity or for that matter the word “Prophet.” The page you refer to discusses the Bible subject(s) that continues from Revelation Chapter 10 about the 1,260 days (a matter relating to Bible Chronology) and specifically goes into the “two witnesses” (NIV) not prophets!!!! The JW’s feel that this applies and or refers to them; again a claim that any sincere Christian can make! Now what! You misquote, and misapply things, and so what is your point. The fact that I confirmed your statement as totally inaccurate I am sure, will do nothing for you, as you will keep on doing what you are doing to falsely make statements that are not so! You can have your opinions, as this is the right of any human being, however to miss-quote and make assertions on miss-quotes, reveals an agenda, so the question here is, who is making false statements? P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 144 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Your assertions are totally false as this simple reply will show. You can in your anger, stubbornness, or unreasonableness believe what you want to believe, however, it should be done with fairness, quoting things accurately not as you do with blatant lies! No matter how much a Christian organization albeit JW or other, claim to be God’s appointed channel, organization etc. (which is a claim any sincere Christian should be able to make) they are NOT under the Mosaic law, which includes what is stated at Deuteronomy 18:20, no matter how hard you wish to force the issue!!! Jesus was the last Prophet, and no one can take his place in Christianity-PERIOD! You are misstating what they clearly represent though you do one better, as you outright lie in the remainder of your post! I have had different experiences than you when showing a JW a publication from their own libraries, with changes! If a person makes a mistake they should be willing to make corrections and changes as that is the reasonable and Godly thing to do, now to do otherwise and blatantly stick to something due to pride etc, in view of proof or evidence to the contrary, now that is not right not Godly! I did what you asked and checked with Revelation Book page 167 and find no such mention of any claims or comments about their being a “Prophet” or inspired entity or for that matter the word “Prophet.” The page you refer to discusses the Bible subject(s) that continues from Revelation Chapter 10 about the 1,260 days (a matter relating to Bible Chronology) and specifically goes into the “two witnesses” (NIV) not prophets!!!! The JW’s feel that this applies and or refers to them; again a claim that any sincere Christian can make! Now what! You misquote, and misapply things, and so what is your point. The fact that I confirmed your statement as totally inaccurate I am sure, will do nothing for you, as you will keep on doing what you are doing to falsely make statements that are not so! You can have your opinions, as this is the right of any human being, however to miss-quote and make assertions on miss-quotes, reveals an agenda, so the question here is, who is making false statements? P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.66 |
did you notice how preytorian side stepped the article written by the the jehovah's witness organization in the first post in this thread. yup, they claim to be "prophets amoung us" and guess what, ....... they claim if we don't joint them, god will kill us. | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.66 |
the article is that is written by the the jehovah's witness organization in the first post in this thread is from jw literature. yup, they claim to be "prophets among us" and guess what, ....... they claim if we don't join them, god will kill us. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 151 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: You have lied again! The above first post was replied to by me, and is available for all to read, as I went to the reference in question and showed it to be a lie and a misquote like what you did about the reference of “two prophets” on page 169 where you now add “or so” in the Red Revelation Book that actually discusses the “two witnesses” (NIV) mentioned in Revelation! In fact a simple reading of the above shows the initial poster to have recanted the quote, though then taking or maintaining the position on their way of “interpreting” what the JW’s actually “meant” by the corrected quote, which in the end was totally different than what was represented! Thus the quote was factual and corrected, despite differing opinions! While people here may love what you express and may even agree with you, I have found none to be a patent liar as you! This you are clearly doing! It is sad that you must defer to lying “tactics” to get your point across! I trust you are truly a Christian worth imitating indeed!!! I trust YOUR GOD totally approves of this tactic as he is the Father of the LIE! Tell me Crawly if the JW’s are evil, what will happen to people like you who insist on lying as a way of life? The Bible says repeatedly that people WILL DIE at Armageddon, again, you are killing the messenger as it is in the Bible therefore your issue is with the Bible (You know that tactic I am point out, called logic). The fact that they sincerely believe they are the ones to make it, and others aren’t is something all sincere religious people, Christians should believe, so you are blaming them for feeling no different than the way other sincere people should! Bravo! P | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.30.66 |
the first article in this post is about "false prophet liars". yup the wicked gov body of jws are such liars. they write an article about being prophets among us, and then if we question them being "prophets among us", they disfellowship us and tell us there is no such claims. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Now I get it; you were disfellowshipped and are angry about it! OK, why didn’t you say so! Again, you are not fairly portraying what is represented in the above posts as they are in writing and anyone can read them for themselves to see if you are distorting the facts or not; because you clearly are! You have an ax to grind, got it! So when did you get this revelation, that they are all evil, when you left what you formally believed and became one (was that stupid) or when you were disfellowshipped by the congregation you associated with for something you knew you could be disfellowshipped over BEFORE you became one! (as the Governing Body does not do this, the local congregation does this). You are distorting the facts, over and over again, as so though somehow repeating this error will some how become true. In the end, if you have an article to quote to support your position that is different than what was originally posted here in this string in the first post that is clearly not true, then do so, otherwise you are wasting time on something that is simply not as you represent. P. | ||
| crawly New member Username: crawly Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.252.235 |
notice how the watchtower article in the first post is about how the jw leadership are prophets among us, yet praetorian suggests no such thing is said!........ that is normal jw tactics. they claim to be the two prophets of rev 11, yet at the same time deny it if you ask them about all of their false prophecy.......it's really tricky stuff, since you have to claim to be prophets yet deny it at the same time! so generally they try to make long fluff statememts to mislead sorta like what praetorian is doing. ask for the red rev book, and look at pages 167 or so and have a good laugh. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 185 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P | ||
| crawly Junior Member Username: crawly Post Number: 45 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.67 |
notice how the jw leadership have to avoid their own articles, like the one in the first post on this thread about how they are "prophets among us" you see, they are just lying false prophets, who have to lie their way out of everything they say. jesus warned that they would show up, and he was right..... matt 24;24 | ||
| crawly Junior Member Username: crawly Post Number: 46 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.67 |
notice how false prophets have to avoid their own articles, like the one in the first post on this thread about how they are "prophets among us" you see, jw leadership are just lying false prophets, who have to lie their way out of everything they say. jesus warned that they would show up, and he was right..... matt 24;24 | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 211 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.45 |
notice how praetorian jw sorta can't refute that the first post contains a watchtower article where the jw leadership claim to be "prophets". so he has to sorta dream up some smooth talk fluff to distract. yup..... the jw gov body are false prophets. jesus warned about them in matt 24;24...2 thess 2;2 check out their red rev book pages 166 where they claim to be the two prophets of rev 11. i always get a good laugh when i read the part where rutherford went to jail, and they claim that fulfilled the part where the two prophets died for 3 1/2 days in revelation 11. | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 231 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Crawly: Since you are good at repeating things I thought I would repeat a little ditty, where in I provide my “Two Cents” that I have done here before as it well applies to “ALL” of your posts and trust you will agree with some or part of it and if not, oh well, it is what it is! One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” P P.S. I explained what the article says, as people like you, use fluff, to detract from the post or message given! You can read can't you? Go get another martini, or is this not your drink of choice! It's FRIDAY!!! | ||
| crawly Member Username: crawly Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.253.69 |
in the first post, evidence was provided that the watchtower society claims to be god's prophet among us. .....yet when all of their prophecy fails preatorian-jw suggests none of that really matters, but we should just sorta ignore that part, and let god do his work and stop arguing about it since they are god's prophet. jw leaders are expert at smooth talk. are you starting to notice how sly the jw leadership can talk? | ||
| praetorian Intermediate Member Username: praetorian Post Number: 263 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.89.75.242 |
Craw: Duh! | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.238 |
notice that the jw-promoting praetorian has no answer. the first post on this thread makes it all clear. jws claim to be ''prophets''....... yet at the same time deny it all, when questioned about it. | ||
| junefever Junior Member Username: junefever Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.172.116.155 |
JWs tricky attempts to now dismiss the idea that they never claimed to be a prophet is merely another example of JW doublespeak. Just like 1975, where we've seen numerous examples of their black and white published words that this was going to bring the end. When it didn't pan out they actually had the audacity to blame the readers--whom they now insisted interpreted their words wrongly. Just like their convoluted sly reinterpretation of "generation." They claimed the generation who witnessed events in 1914 "with the eyes of understanding" would not pass away before the end came. As it soon became clear that those of that generation would have to be around 106, the JWs had to again rewrite history--and put a spin on their past "prophesies." They had to do the same with their claim (circa 1914?) that "Millions now living will never die!" Of course they claimed to be prophets. It's documented in their publications--another attempt to grab credibility by setting themselves up as appointed by God. However, since they've gotten prophesies completely wrong, time and again, one must conclude that they are false prophets. In at attempt to side-step that fact, members write dissertations filled with convoluted logic, tricky semantics, and exhausting passages. The "truth" isn't that difficult to identify, no matter how the JWs repeatedly try to spin it. | ||
| crawly Intermediate Member Username: crawly Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 4.240.81.235 |
notice how the first post in this thread provides a watchtower article whereby the jw leadership claims to be ''prophets among us'' yet preatorian claims it says no such thing. that is a jw tactic when talking to non-members. they want to sorta ''ease you into it''. also, if you would like to read about how the jws claim to be the two prophets of revelation 11, get the jw book ''revelation, it's grand climax at hand'' and read about their claim on pages 166 or so........ preatorian denys those claims too. my favorite part is where the jw leadership commands fire to come down from heaven on to all of christianity who disagrees that jesus returned already and appointed jws to rule on their various demonic dates that failed. |
