| Author | Message | ||
     pelfdaddy Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 69.208.7.67 |
We have contended that the many abuses committed by Ron Denis were merely the result of years spent in the school of "Pastor Says". Denis' (and others') emulation and imitation of RW Davis account for the abusive, dishonest, and tyrannical 'ministry' by which he is now characterized. Contrarily, the organization's defenders have been insisting that "Pastor didn't know" what was happening. But we now read a shocking truth on Curt's blog--that Sister Olson has been heard reminding her husband in tearful frustration that "he DID know", and that a lie is being perpetuated. What is the truth? Is she the liar, or is Davis the liar? | ||
| mark_g Junior Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
Contrarily, the organization's defenders have been insisting that "Pastor didn't know" what was happening. But we now read a shocking truth on Curt's blog--that Sister Olson has been heard reminding her husband in tearful frustration that "he DID know", and that a lie is being perpetuated. What is the truth? Is she the liar, or is Davis the liar? Brian's Quote Maybe I have this all wrong. From what I have read It seems to me that she is sick and tired of it all. Personally speaking, I think that Mr. Olson is nothing but a "Yes" Man in the truest fashion. I also think that She does love her husband, But I just get the impression that she is sick and tired of it all. But then again, Thats just my impression. | ||
| bro_derrick Junior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.192.123.145 |
1) Concerning Davis' best and most successful disciple Denis: 'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.' (Matthew 23:15) 2) Concerning Mrs. Olson's tears: This is the set-up prelude to Olson giving way to kekel to sit in Davis' Family throne (If the daughter keeps him, that is...) The way has already been cleared for breaking marriages and adulterous remarriages under the banner of loyalty. All Davis would then need do is set in motion the smear campaign on the son-in-law, that he and the son-in-law had perpetrated on others before. (What goes around comes around, and sharks eat their own...) It's the same kind of filthiness in high places that the Nicolaitan leaders were known for, after they had likewise built an Organization of churches for profit in the Christian's religion. (If the church and ministry are indeed a 'business', then why aren't the members treated as the customers who are always right, rather than as the plantation slaves who are always wrong...?) "Christians have no rights!" Davis: Graham (As pertaining to input and/or criticism of the 'program' of God, which He gave to Davis to work and push the people by, that Davis might succeed and and profit through...) | ||
| mklo Intermediate Member Username: mklo Post Number: 116 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
| ||
| anewlife Junior Member Username: anewlife Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.179.177.102 |
Kekel told my husband and I that Rev Jordan didn't know what he was talking about that time he preached about rwd's eyes being blinded by God. He told us all this when we went to his house to pick something up. It was right after Jordan preached that sermon. Kekel said he was constantly telling rwd about the things denis was doing and some others had told on him as well. Kekel seemed frustrated by all this. He was flustered that it took so long for rwd to finally see for himself. My husband and I were just standing there not knowing what to do or say. You could tell he was upset with his father-in-law for allowing all that stuff to happen, but he never came right out and said it. | ||
| pelfdaddy Intermediate Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 371 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.217.226.48 |
Which means that Davis' willingness to go along with that idea was an outright attempt to deceive everyone. | ||
| mklo Intermediate Member Username: mklo Post Number: 123 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
Yes, that is inescapably true. Denis could generate numbers and thereby money, and that made him a useful tool to Davis. Ultimately, that's all that mattered - until Denis decided to take the trade secrets he learned from his mentor and go into business for himself. I recall one former board-member whom even a new Christian could see was not a godly man, yet he could generate enthusiasm and motivate people to work the program, so Davis kept him around and touted him as a success worthy of emulation. I distinctly remember sitting around with a few members sipping (of all things) Kool-Aid, while he launched into an arrogant diatribe about how he could discourage any one of us from serving God, if he wanted to. (There may be some here who also remember.) Talking like he was drunk, he said that he could grind any one of us down so badly with our faults and failures that we would quit serving God. His point was never clear, except maybe that we were supposed to be thankful that he had not done so - yet. In retrospect, it is easy to see where he learned his manipulative tactics. Like Denis, he learned from his narcissistic mentor, Roger Davis. What would have been the point of running to Davis and saying "Hey, this guy is JUST LIKE YOU!" | ||
| leftin1991 New member Username: leftin1991 Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.244.46.12 |
I also recall Tim Saminto making that same kind of arrogant and asinine statement a time or two. I often wonder what has become of the Samintos. In spite of their 35-year kool-aid drinking loyalty to NTCC, they always seemed to me to be among the more honest-hearted underlings with pure motives. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Intermediate Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.8.39 |
Mick's quote: "I distinctly remember sitting around with a few members sipping (of all things) Kool-Aid, while he launched into an arrogant diatribe about how he could discourage any one of us from serving God, if he wanted to. (There may be some here who also remember.) Talking like he was drunk, he said that he could grind any one of us down so badly with our faults and failures that we would quit serving God. His point was never clear, except maybe that we were supposed to be thankful that he had not done so - yet. In retrospect, it is easy to see where he learned his manipulative tactics. Like Denis, he learned from his narcissistic mentor, Roger Davis." I was there Mick. I remember. We were supposed to quiver and quake...and then, follow that up with a good dose of thinking that this man was showing us mercy by not "exposing" our very core...the very inner part of us that might not be in complete accordance with the "program" of God... as we thought we might be. It was total mind games. We've seen it in others. Preachers bragging at conferences about how that they "shot up" the congregation with their words of conviction. All of us need to be aware of how this can happen so that we never allow anyone in this lifetime to do that to us again...or to allow ourselves to be "played"...using our zeal ...as an instrument against us. | ||
| pelfdaddy Intermediate Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 375 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.217.226.48 |
That man never did one thing (adultery included) that wasn't a mirror image of Davis. | ||
| polaris New member Username: polaris Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.74 |
In reference to the preacher refered to in mklo and tracy's post: what pride. what gaul. what cojones. I thought only the devil could possibly wear you down to where you wouldn't want to serve God. whose side was he on if he believed he could do that, I wonder? that really really really really angers me. (it is a reminder of why I do not like preachers anymore, well except the pastor of the church I attend on Sun mornings and even then I keep my distance). nothing personal to those of you who have been preachers. if there were a stronger word I could use, I would. and you should post his name so others can steer clear of his vile arrogance. I am so glad that even though God knows ALL my faults, failures and sins, HE still loves me and He died for me and HE is not going around looking to destroy me or my faith in HIM. | ||
| mark_g Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"I am so glad that even though God knows ALL my faults, failures and sins, HE still loves me and He died for me and HE is not going around looking to destroy me or my faith in HIM." Isn't that so true? Also, If I may add this one statement. The Christian should not believe that God will Love him because he is good, But that God will make him good because he DOES love him! | ||
| mklo Intermediate Member Username: mklo Post Number: 126 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
The only reason I didn't is because he left the Organization a long time ago, and for all I know he has seen the error of his ways and changed. That man also drove a wedge between me and my wife and gave us a lot of bad advice that took us many years to sort through. I was kinda mad at him for a long time, but I realize now that he was just another Davis clone; he was taken in when he was young and malleable, and made into what he was. I hope that he's woken up and changed, but I have no idea. Besides, my references are probably clear enough to those who have been around for a while. It wasn't my intent to run him down, but to point out that in spite of his serious personal issues that were quite obvious to anyone who spent any time with him, Davis kept him on as a board member because he was enthusiastic, authoritative, pushy, and could get people coming to church wherever he was sent. (And his wife could sing.) Davis promotes those who promote him and his organization. That's all that seems to matter.
Actually, that is what I was thinking all the while, as the aforementioned preacher was spouting his garbage. I was saved in a church where new believers were very well grounded in the doctrine of salvation by faith. I didn't speak up because I "knew my place," but I didn't believe a word of what he said. I sat there thinking he was an arrogant fool. I guess I was a fool too, because I didn't walk out the door and never come back. I can only plead ignorant youth as my excuse. | ||
| road_captain New member Username: road_captain Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.170.115.170 |
Hey Bro Curt, What ever happened to Bro Sample. "the amazing singer" Why did he fall off the charts? Steve. | ||
| polaris Junior Member Username: polaris Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.74 |
mklo: your point is understood. it is just that those of us (like you and your wife and others) who have had clones dabble into our live, have to deal with the repercusions, even years later. it doesn't seem "fair" and that is hard to swallow sometimes. | ||
| mklo Intermediate Member Username: mklo Post Number: 127 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
You're right, polaris, it's not fair. The nature of evil is that the innocent pay for it; that's why we call it evil. I actually think that my wife and I got off pretty light. We left the organization without a dime, even though we had thousands saved before we went to Bible School, but that's easy enough to mend, and we're doing fine now. And our marriage is still intact. (18 years in October!) There are many who cannot say the same. Aside from personal catharsis, I post here mainly for the sake of the casual reader, who may fall into several classes: 1) Those who are still "in" and struggling, and who are helped when other people elucidate the nebulous questions and anxieties in their own mind, 2) those people who have been invited to NTCC but thought they'd check it out on the internet before they go - so that they don't - and 3) those who have already made the break and still need help understanding what they've been through so they don't fall into it again; or perhaps so that they shed their fear and likewise speak out. I have reason to believe that all of these purposes are being served by keeping these discussions alive. | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 988 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.211.19.11 |
Please read the head of this thread--thank you. | ||
| charger Junior Member Username: charger Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.32.36.197 |
I do not know the whole story, but I know that when Rev. Moses left the Organization he told Rwd that he could not work under the likes of Dennis. He knew Dennis was going to end up on the board. I was told that Rev. Moses was proud and jealous of Dennis. The point is simple. Rwd did not listen to Rev. Moses, He did not listen to Rev. Kekel, or Rev. Kinson, and anyone else that had a negative word to say about his boy Dennis. I never really knew Dennis, but I never liked him. QUESTION: Does anyone know if it was Dennis that destroyed the creditability of L.D. Jones. What did he say about the man? | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1014 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Charger, I don't know the answer to your question immediately above. HOWEVER, loyalty to RWD after the split negates any character assassination attempts by Denis in the first place. JD Bailey is another example of that. While I was at a board meeting with Bailey, Derrick, Davis, Olson, and Johnson, RWD called Denis to confirm whether or not Bailey was calling members from his former church in Leesville (while pastoring in Woodbrook). Denis stated that he tried to stop Bailey from doing it but he wouldn't listen. This, among a bunch of other things, got Bailey out of Woodbrook for a season and Devonshire was the replacement. Bailey was living in MCKEKEL's old home on campus for the time being...a favorable bit of treatment for someone who should have been disciplined for a number of things. I always wondered about that... THEN the split happened. Bailey stayed loyal. He was heralded as the one who stayed loyal even after being railroaded by Denis and Co for not joining their split scheme. As a result, Bailey preaches a "I'm back and I'm bad message" in Graham...with a whole lot of religious pride behind it and was looking at Derrick and I in the congregation when he would make reference to distractions and the devil. We were wise to the fact that Davis was exalting a true devil, letting him preach in the GREAT HOLY GRAHAM TEMPLE OF DAVIS, and then sent BACK to Leesville to retake over that church and try to get back as many of the members who had split off with Denis and Oloans as possible. So my answer to you, Charger, is that it's all irrelevant now...unless L.D. Jones ever decides to jump ship too. If he does, then he'll be labelled as the bad guy too...even after decades of dedication to the borg. Take it to the bank. PS: Bro Lindsey, if you're reading this, you know it's true and if you guys ever jumped ship for ANY reason you'll be labelled as devils too. Your father-in-law CAN'T leave because he gave his whole life to the borg and where else would he go? He's trapped, just like Ashmore and JL Johnson. They have to be sold out to the borg clones/hirelings/gophers for davis for the rest of their lives. Maybe they can pull security in the Graham parking lot when they get too old to work and travel. Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1015 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Contrarily, the organization's defenders have been insisting that "Pastor didn't know" what was happening. But we now read a shocking truth on Curt's blog--that Sister Olson has been heard reminding her husband in tearful frustration that "he DID know", and that a lie is being perpetuated. ---------------------------------------------- Can someone post the link to Curt's blog? Thanks, Marc Perez | ||
| ctyankee Intermediate Member Username: ctyankee Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 75.165.117.185 |
http://www.curtsstory.blogspot.com/ You'll have to search for the story. | ||
| nbrown Member Username: nbrown Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.214.20.182 |
Sister Olsen knows what the deal is and I think she tries to stand her ground the best she can. I'm sure her comments about davis knowing what's going on were the cause for jabs taken at her during pastors classes. Why does she always want to look in little mirrors and why does she always try and pry info out of her husband etc etc. I never once heard a jab taken at sis ashmore. Only sis olsen because I'm sure she is tired of listening to this garbage go on and davis can't deal with a woman who says it like it is. So he tries to humiliate her in public and paint her as a liar. | ||
| ntcctruth New member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
The truth is...NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE "LEADERS" ARE HAPPY OVER THERE IN GRAHAM. Not one. If the rest of NTCC's people knew...and I mean REALLY KNEW everything about these leaders AND THEIR SPOUSES, they'd be flabbergasted...the rug would be pulled from under their faith. It's just as if the DaVinci Code was real, then it would shatter the very foundations of our Christian faith. No, I don't believe in any of that stuff from the movie and all. The Bible is still the Bible and Jesus is still Jesus, etc, etc. Yet what would life be like for us if we, as believers, were proven that our faith was based on things that weren't all true? I'm telling you that if you knew how miserable and dysfunctional those leaders and their spouses are in Graham, it would shatter your beliefs in the org. Maybe that's why FACTNET has so many posts for this relatively small org...because we were all lead to believe a bunch of lies about the holy state of these men and their pet doctrines...and now some people dare to shed the light on the subject. It's no wonder that there are alot emotions displayed here from both sides of the NTCC fences. Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth New member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
In addition to my statement about the unhappy and dysfunctional state of the Grahamite leaders and their spouses, I wonder how many (not IF, but how many) of the wives wish that their respective executive leader spouse would want to leave NTCC as much as they do. On the flip side, I wonder how many of the remaining leaders' wives (who don't fall into the aforementioned category) are hiding some money here and there under pillows, underground, or wherever just in case the breadwinner of the household leaves their spouse in NTCC? In other words, this is an example of the dysfunctionality that exists in NTCC. If you look at all of the executive leaders and their wives, along with the Grahamite pastors, laypastors, and their wives, you'll find that alot of them have one member of the household, be it the wife or the husband, who wants out of the borg. There is alot of mistrust out there in Graham, which partially explains the strange rules and quirky behaviors therein. Marc Perez |
