| Author | Message | ||
     fivefoldprophet Junior Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
Willians website;; with Mark ,,,Hombre ,Duncan ,Rachel william said; Go ahead, dig up ANYTHING that I've said (I've said a bunch, both here and at http://www.overcomersonline.com) and attempt to use it against me. Five Fold Prophet ANSWER; You people use dirty sexual suggestive comments proof you are not what you claim Rather wolves in sheep’s clothing william New member Username: william Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Course, the masochistic tendencies tend toward the sadistic when the other person is perceived weaker, hence, when he's referred to as a five-fold-fool, his masochistic side shines forth, at this point he readily agrees with his protagonist. Then when he attempts to become the sadist, it manifests in an insane attempt at dominance over others. He's an amateur in this field. Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 11:44 am: It doesn't take a medical scientist to diagnose a psycho. william New member Username: william Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Lest anyone think my reference to terms with decidedly s*xual overtones (sadistic/masochistic) is purely gratuitous, please look at what was written: william New member Username: william Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Now, if I were of the same masochistic spirit as fivefold I would repeat his words in response to the suggestion by Healed for him to "make out"... william New member Username: william Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Show me how that isn't a masochistic spirit. You buckle the knees when Healed calls you a fool and slobber all over yourself at his lewd suggestion, and then say that you agree with him? Keep in mind, you don't rebuke or have any harsh words for Healed, only for those who consider it more than a little weird for you to meekly acquiesce to such language. When you spew out a stream of drivel, it seems designed to make it appear that you are the sadist. I'm telling you, this is a very weird situation. william New member Username: william Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Just for the record, I had never heard of the term "sadomasochism" until brother Freeman taught about it, so if you want to go around slamming people who use the language, you shouldn't equate using that language with being out of step with HEF. I also gained the ability to discern the false from the true those many years ago. You still haven't told us how what you do isn't a manifestation of a sadomasochistic spirit. Definition: 1. interaction, esp. sexual activity, in which one person enjoys inflicting physical or mental suffering on another person, who derives pleasure from experiencing pain. 2. gratification, esp. sexual, gained through inflicting or receiving pain; sadism and masochism combined. Abbreviation: S-M, S and M You attempt to do this almost every time you post... but like I said, you are amateurish in the sadistic side of things. Your forte is toward the masochist. Evidence: Your everyone-is-against-me-proves-I'm-a-true-prophet routine. You love it! william william New member Username: william Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 I ask: Show me how that isn't a masochistic spirit. You buckle the knees when Healed calls you a fool and slobber all over yourself at his lewd suggestion, and then say that you agree with him? | ||
| fivefoldprophet Junior Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
New member Username: duncan Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Fiver, Bodily functions are normal and necessary, and I hardly see how referencing one could be considered corrupt. I could have used the term that the Bible uses (i.e. P*SS), mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 Don't worry...if Michael and I were opposite sexes, I wouldn't even be thinking making out with him(her) Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 4:33 pm: mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.92.43.177 And so is the owner of Prophets Are Here to Serve You. Healed, don't listen to this "dumb azz". You're better off. Nobody else does, except those who are decieved. Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:39 am: imark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 t is Ichabod on your life and ministry hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Fiver: Are you a jerkwad? Yes or No? ( Circle one answer only, please ) ....why don't you go get a life somewhere, turd. | ||
| fivefoldprophet Junior Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.29.206.172 |
william New member Username: william Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Bucko the masochist(the fivefoldFOOL mentioned by Healed) said: "hey healed that would be great,,I agree william New member Username: william Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 However, there's no ambiguity in the post that you wrote; it oozes a masochistic spirit... you were quite willing to agree with the person who called you a fool and when lewd suggestions were made in the same note, you practically shouted "I AGREE". No harsh words for your protagonist, yet you've nothing but harsh words for those who point out your grovelling spirit. A prophet's words are the light into his soul... your words reveal a masochistic spirit. william New member Username: william Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.146.37.161 Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:30 pm: Read your own definition Bucko: Fiver: "mas-och-ism n.1. gratification, esp. of a sexual nature, derived from pain, degradation, etc., inflicted by another on oneself." hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 6:59 pm: quote: FIVER: Hombre ...... do you have anymore sexual or trashy suggestive comments........ quote: Answer from Hombre; Why, is your libido screaming out for some? Username: duncan Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Five, Let me make sure I understand - You don't receive bodily functions? I'm sorry to hear that - it must be painful. duncan duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Fiver, Bodily functions are normal and necessary, and I hardly see how referencing one could be considered corrupt. I could have used the term that the Bible uses (i.e. P*SS), rachelengland Junior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 Why is that toliets and sex always find their way into christian conversations..these are healthy everyday necessities...not taboos fivefoldprophet I think you are being sensitive yiou know the old saying...let go and let God duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Five, Let me make sure I understand - You don't receive bodily functions? I'm sorry to hear that - it must be painful. Secondly, I never mentioned anything about a covering, so your comment is completely worthless. I specifically mentioned "washed" and "cleansed". Now, if you will excuse me, I have a bodily function I need to go take care of. Duncan duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Fiver, Bodily functions are normal and necessary, and I hardly see how referencing one could be considered corrupt. I could have used the term that the Bible uses (i.e. P*SS), . | ||
| fivefoldprophet Junior Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
mark1124 Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 Don't worry...if Michael and I were opposite sexes, I wouldn't even be thinking making out with him(her) Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 4:33 pm: mark1124 Username: mark1124 Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.92.43.177 And so is the owner of Prophets Are Here to Serve You. Healed, don't listen to this "dumb azz". You're better off. Nobody else does, except those who are decieved. Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:39 am: imark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 t is Ichabod on your life and ministry | ||
| fivefoldprophet Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
fruits of the spirit? in these people? | ||
| fivefoldprophet Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
..hey, thanks for the plug Nutjob! ....you know what they say: 'There's no such thing as bad advertising'. ......later, headcase. | ||
| fivefoldprophet Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
I dont recieve your wicked spirits ,,,,, In Jesus name! Amen! | ||
| duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Fiver, First, I want to compliment you on your cutting and pasting skills. It's been some time since I have seen such advanced techniques. Secondly, I wanted to ask you if you felt that using the restroom was a sin? You have gone off the deep end on me for referencing using the restroom, so I was wondering if you thought that using the restroom was a sin. Thirdly, you have repeatedly been shown clear scripture that you refuse to acknowledge, or even explain away. Fourthly, I know that the other posters here enjoy pulling your chain to see what you will say next, and I was part of that last year (of which I apologized, and you continue to live in sin by spitting at the words of Jesus which say to forgive your brother). I have not jumped on that bandwagon this year, because I am really trying to understand what is going on in your mind. Based on your ranting and raving these past several days, refusal to acknowledge the Word of God, refusal to forgive, refusal to assemble with other believers, etc. - I am really becoming concerned about your spiritual life. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the Holy Word of God. Let me leave you with a few words of encouragement: "Blessed are the peacemakers" "If thy brother sin against thee, forgive him seventy times seven." "Turn the other cheek" "Blessed are the meek" "If I have the gift of prophecy, but have not love, I am nothing." Please heed these words. Duncan | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
No doubt this is like the 5th thread on factnet I have...at least now I am sharing the billing.. I am thinking of asking FN to compensate me for all the attention I give them...I'll give you guys a piece of the pie...RE Thank goodness FFP doesn't get to decide our fate-he isn't God nor does he speak for God... | ||
| fivefoldprophet Member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 75.179.4.203 |
refusal to assemble with other believers, hahahahahahahah you bunch? hahahahahahah remember ...... duncan you said you commit sin! the Word refutes you! 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil I dont recieve your devil,,, In Jesus Name! | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
I remember passin-thru telling me there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ all of you remember that and maybe ignoring this character is best..he is nothing more than a certified hecklier and I don't even like Hobart Freeman's teachings...RE | ||
| duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Five, You have been exhorted by the unquestionable Word of God. There is nothing more I can do for you. Whether it falls on fertile soil or rocky soil is up to the predestined will of God. You can continue your ranting if you wish, but there would be no further purpose served in me responding to you. May God open your eyes and have mercy on your soul. Duncan | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
..I don't remember offering you anything, besides a chance to think clearly, much less wicked spirits...I think that those are the ones talking inside your head. Oh...that must be it! You were responding to the voices in your head...now I get it! Dunky, yer a good natured feller, but I don't think he's gonna listen to ya. We've been hollerin' at him outside his little cell, for the express purpose of determining whether he is capable of rational thought and comprehension skills now for quite some time. Im afraid that he's quite beside himself, and all efforts to help him, he has thwarted religiously. So, for the meantime, we might as well hang a sign around his neck, and charge a dollar to show others what the drug of false religion can do to a persons brain. Oh, and thank you Rachel, invoking the judgement of God as a prophet to judge others with, is a particularly foul disease indeed...particularly from someone who suffers from a form of self-righteous dementia. ...besides, I seem to remember Jesus and the adulteress, and His position toward sinners, seemed to be forgiveness and instruction, not damnation and more damnation. ...I trust that we're all adults here and can handle that word, without getting all bent out of shape, like some 5 year old might. | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
The true overcomers on this board are Hombre, William, Duncan, Rachel (I know you have trouble with that one - but you are anyway) and myself. Fivefoldnuckleshuffle needs to go back to the scriptures and find out what the crucified life is all about. After all, he "studied" under Dr. Freeman. He must have missed those deeper life classes. I was thinking about this today at work. I was thinking about how Fiver gets offended when we don't follow "his" ways and how he has especially comes back at me with his so called prophecy. I was thinking of this scripture: "Luke 9:51 ¶And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." The disciples wanted to call down fire (or judgment) on those that did not receive them. But Jesus rebuked them for their bad spirit. Jesus had another Spirit. Doesn't this sound like the Factnet prophet? I mean, it sounds like he wants to call down judgment of all of us but that is a wrong spirit. That is not the Spirit of God. That is a judgmental spirit and not a spirit of meekness and forgiveness. There is no love in Fiver's messages at all. Is it wrong to come against sin? No. But he seems to forget that we do have an advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous One, to go to if we do sin. And we only have to answer to our Advocate and not to Fiver. And Jesus does not condemn anyone who sins. He forgives. Unless His "servant" the prophet of Factnet. What a big difference between our Savior and Fivefoldedup. I wonder what Fiver's attitude would have been to the woman caught in the act of adultry (sp). I think he would have had the same attitude as the Jews who caught her in the act. But Jesus had compassion and forgave her. Nobody was around to accuse her anymore. Jesus forgave her and told her to go and sin no more. Fiver's attitude toward her would probably be, Go and sin no more" and not forgive her. Hey folks, aren't you glad that we have a loving Heavenly Father and a merciful Savior and that we don't have to answer to an unforgiving "prophet" who threatens people with judgment? And what about the example that our Lord left for us when He was reviled? What does the scripture say? 1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, REVILED NOT AGAIN; when he suffered, HE THREATENED NOT; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: That is the example that Our Lord left for all of us. Except for Fiver, who decides to live against the written Word of God. Yea, I even quoted from the "inspired" King James Bible too so there would be "no words left out" of the translation. It makes me wonder who I should follow...a so called self-possessed prophet, or Jesus Our Lord. | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
Hey Rachel, I didn't know you were part of the overcomersonline.com website too? Congratulations and welcome...hee hee. Atta girl! Mark | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Thank you...I guess  Mark, who would of in a million years thought you and I could have a civil conversation...I know we will never agree on things 100% of the time or most of the time but maybe people can learn from us and see that anger and misunderstanding can be put to the side..Take Care R | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
Rachel, If we keep in mind one very very important thing...we may disagree on Hobart Freeman. Trust me when I say that that is a moot point. It doesn't matter if you hate him or love him. What really matters is that you and I love Jesus Christ. We are born again Christians. You and I are brothers and sisters in the Lord. We can certainly fellowship around Him. We can indeed learn from each other. Just so long as we are teachable. We are no better than each other. The ground is level at the foot of the cross. And that's a good thing...I mean, you may be a different denominational wise than I. But who cares? I love Jesus and so do you and that is really all that matters. God bless Mark | ||
| duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Kumbah Ya, my lord, Kumbah Ya... Now, everybody! Kumbah Ya, my lord, Kumbah Ya... Duncan  | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
There's a lot love up in these threads today and there is a comedian, an intellect and a searcher in every group I have encountered on FN..People are the same all around- no matter what they belive in the emotions always run high...lets hold hands | ||
| duncan New member Username: duncan Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 |
Rachel, Wasn't that the same line that Anthony Michael Hall used at the end of the movie "Breakfast Club"? Have a great day and great weekend! Duncan | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
 I guess your right Duncan and I love any movie with Molly Ringwald and Anthony Micheal Hall! Have a great weekend yourself-hope it is beautiful | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
Rachel, you said, "There's a lot love up in these threads today and there is a comedian, an intellect and a searcher in every group I have encountered on FN." You forgot the most important one.....a "prophet" | ||
| passin_thru New member Username: passin_thru Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 12.214.100.32 |
I’ve read through some of the recent posts. Yeesh! The love and one accord is different than anything I’ve seen in these threads. Duncan, ‘Kumbah Ya’ is right. Okay everyone, group hug! Mark, I agree with you. Hobart Freeman is largely a moot issue. However, there are still a few people lost in a world of legalism and spiritual pride (like my two remaining relatives). Hombre, I totally agree with your 5/17/7 post in the ‘Understanding Faith Assembly’ thread. When I read it, I thought if FA had adhered to things as you wrote them, there wouldn’t be a FACTnet listing for Hobart Freeman. People wouldn’t have felt it necessary to die, rather than go to a doctor for basic treatment. I recently learned one of my relatives is now blind from cataracts. They think they are serving the Lord by keeping themselves locked away from all others and, most importantly, not going to a doctor. For three decades, I’ve never had the slightest impact on them. They think I am of the devil, sent to deceive and rob them of their heavenly rewards. Michael, you need help. You should really get some professional counseling. It’s not necessary to play the role of high and mighty prophet. People like being talked ‘with’ and ‘to’ as equals. No one likes being talked ‘at’ and ‘down to’. Just as you were mistaken for a time about JDS, you still don’t have it all figured out. You’re in the same boat as everyone else. No one has God totally figured out. I certainly don’t! It seems God wants it that way for now. We have to accept it and still serve Him and others the best we can. Rachel, like you said, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Praise God! I sure fall short everyday, and so does every human being living on this planet. | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.164.183.74 |
passin, I find it interesting that there is people like you still out there, that is folks with relatives that are still bound to the insanity of all things FA. I have this issue as well. I dont know where my relative is still "fellowshiping" with, but it has to be a place that hasnt deviated from Freemans word because they are still bound up in it. All this whackyness that has recently appeared on this forum with the appearance of Five Foled Fool is a non issue for me. I dont feel any fellowship for any of the Neo Freemanites. Its not a case where my relatives moved on and look back nostagically, almost like waiting for a new messiah (Freeman) to appear, as be the case with some of the clowns here. My relatives are still deep in it, like the automatics never stopped coming. Faith Ministries ministers are still played, even though most of them are off doing their worldly desires, now that Freeman isnt around to chastise. | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
passin and Healed, For me,I still enjoy the teachings of Freeman. I don't have the problem as others did back in the heyday of FA...and that being bound up with legalism and not fellowshipping with other Freeman people only. Man, if I did that, I would have nobody to fellowship with. My take is...Freeman pointed us to the word. But it is also up to all of us to check things out by the word, for we are admonished to do so. I fellowship with other Christians, whether they are "Freemanites" or not. And I listen to other teachers on tape as well. Now that will not go over well for the hardcore Freeman people. But that's the way it is. Look at it this way...I go to different restaurants to eat. So I can go and listen to other ministers, as long as they are in line with the word. I have read a lot of the posts and it is sad that people got caught up in the spiritual pride and legalism, as you mentioned, passin. Years ago at a church I once attended, we were under the teaching of Freeman and one person started boasting that we had the "deep word". I wonder if spiritual pride was starting to set in with us as well. I'm glad to see that somebody other than Fiver is posting here. Be careful about admitting that you fall short everyday, passthru. Fiver may post some scripture at you indicating that you are not saved but are of the devil. He may start calling you wicked and evil and all that mess. Hey...did you notice in the Swearing Oaths to Medical Deities thread that he said that he does not sin? Well, I have a scripture for him. The scriptures call him a liar! Well, I better hush on that. I don't want to bait him and then have him start posting his dribble in here. Mark | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 134.215.198.178 |
It is possible to find a place of understanding amongst the pain... What I can appreciate is that none of here are judging each other- even though we may have a different take on what the scriptures..what is right for me, may not be for another and I have to respect that. I want to tell you guys that this coming full circle for me...I came to factnet with a chip on my shoulder..but with good reason I never believe we should allow young ones to suffer or deny them medical attention if needed and I will never agree with the name it and claim it hoax...But adults are free to decide for themselves what they want to do and the consequences are between God and them...not me.. R | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 89 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 134.215.198.178 |
It is possible to find a place of understanding amongst the pain... What I can appreciate, is that none of us here are judging each other- even though we may have a different take on what the scriptures say concerning health..what is right for me, may not be for another and I have to respect that. I want to tell you guys that this is coming full circle for me...I came to factnet with a chip on my shoulder..but with good reason I never believe we should allow young ones to suffer or deny them medical attention if needed and I will never agree with the name it and claim it hoax...But adults are free to decide for themselves what they want to do and the consequences are between God and them...not me.. R I wrote this twice because the edit option isn't working and I made mistakes above  | ||
| passin_thru New member Username: passin_thru Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 12.214.100.32 |
Healed, I certainly do not hold with Hobart Freeman. His faith formula is wrong. Anywhere similar theology is taught, it always causes needless suffering and death. For some reason, going to a doctor is equated to being in league with Satan. Just look at Michael’s warped ranting about medical deities. If seeking medical treatment were so bad, God would have listed it in the ‘Eleven’ Commandments. He would not have left it to stretching certain Bible verses like ‘trusting in the hand of flesh’ to include doctors. Rather, the Lord commanded us to care for the sick and physical needs of strangers. I have no problem if someone doesn’t go to a doctor. It’s fine with me that two of my relatives are dead and one is blind. Like Rachel wrote, “Adults are free to decide for themselves.” However, I draw the line with deciding someone else’s fate, like that of a child. There is such a thing as spiritual, moral and legal accountability. | ||
| passin_thru New member Username: passin_thru Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 12.214.100.32 |
My two dead ‘Freeman’ relatives were husband and wife. The subservient wife contracted breast cancer. Near the end, she begged and pleaded for pain meds. A daughter (I’ll call her Sally) finally took her to get some. When they returned, her dad told her if she ever did it again, she would not be permitted to see her mother. Years later, her dad contracted lung cancer. When the pain got intense, he checked himself into a hospital. Some people saw his hypocrisy of watching his wife writhe in pain, while he got a morphine drip. Some people figured he was getting what he deserved. However, the daughter was at his bedside, comforting him the best she could. Now, my other ‘Freeman’ relative is blind from cataracts. Sally has taken them into her home to care for them. I called Sally and talked for two hours. I told her, she is an answer to my thirty years of prayer. I hadn’t known how bad things had gotten. I couldn’t take the holier-than-thou ‘overcomer’ attitude. I stopped visiting years ago. Sally said she had grown up with it and lived it day to day. Thus, maybe she is better equipped and insulated to handle it. She laughed when she told me she’s already been proclaimed unsaved. Sally is a born again Christian, married to a Christian minister. She does not hold to Freeman. She is an RN. Unbelievably, she’s gotten our relative to a doctor. However, there may not be much that can be done. The cataracts are too advanced. Anyway, it’s no great mystery to me, who’s truly serving the Lord God. Bless you, Sally! | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.47.94.211 |
yeah I got a similiar situation. Its only a matter of time before I or another relative must be a caregiver ourself. Its truly a hardship when someone who is disabled will not even claim disability, out of "being healed in Jesus name" You want to smack them upside the head, but you cant. Disability would help pay for so much. Its not a silly thing for me, this Freeman horsesh_t. It creates hardships in many ways for many people. | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
My response is too long, and I don't feel like cutting it up. If you are so inclined, use this link. http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&goto=549&S=a0cef391844511eda2fc3dd0d0e758b1#msg_549 | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Yes it did healed...it has created hardships but thank God we can share those experiences. There was a lady on another thread here last night- who said factnet doesn't help anybody blah blah blah the usual crap she spews..but God can use anything, even a rock if he wanted too. There may be people who come here and read these threads and it may do them a world of good to know others have felt their pain.. You all have done that for me..and I have been able to see things in a whold different light. I have found forgiveness and realized adults are responsible for what they believe and though it may be hard to respect them and to watch them die...it is a choice they made.. I often wonder had many of these followers never heard of Freeman, Hagen or Copeland-would they be following this form of teaching? If they took God's word and sat with it alone would they have same feelings-would they find the same answers..I don't think so-that is why we need to be careful who we listen too.. Have a great day all...may you find peace.R | ||
| arron Intermediate Member Username: arron Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
hey rachelengland how are you? have heard from you in a while. i believe in healing although i have never been to a healing crusade of any kind. i have been healed BY GOD at my church and at home too so i difinatly believe in healing . i believe it is in the atonement. i pray you are doing alright. rememeber me | ||
| rachelengland Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Hello my precious friend arron..Of course I remember you-silly! I know you believe in healing and yet you have gone to Dr for help as well..that is a smart way to live and you are very smart- that's for sure. Take Care..R | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Junior Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.56.9.143 |
"What I can appreciate, is that none of us here are judging each other- even though we may have a different take on what the scriptures say concerning health..what is right for me, may not be for another and I have to respect that." I don't care what difference of opinion/doctrinal stance that people take in regards to healing, I think the saddest thing I ever saw was when I got to Factnet and saw that Christian churches/preachers were recommending that people NOT take medicine or go to doctors. Although, I think it's much more rare than people make it out to be here - it is still a doctrinal approach that ought to be punishable by the law. Sad really, I would like to see some denominations/churches "creeds" or "doctrinal positions" POSTED (not just someone's word) where they state that they don't use doctors - I suspect that it is less common than people say, which is also sad that so many get fingers pointed at them. To those preachers/ministries who say to not take kids to the doctor or encourage people not to take medicine - there seriously ought to be regulations and laws against this. It is a GROSS misrepresentation of God's Love... | ||
| passin_thru New member Username: passin_thru Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 12.214.100.32 |
Hombre, you’re right about legalism and my relatives. They took it to soaring heights. It finally prevented them from fellowshipping with anyone. All fell short of their standard. It’s too bad somewhere along the way; they forgot they also fell short. You raise excellent questions. I just don’t think I can give you my fallible response here in FACTnet. I can’t explain myself in a few paragraphs. However, wouldn't we have a rip-roaring heck of a time discussing it in person? Hopefully, our conduct would be a wee bit better than Shiites and Sunnis. I have a lot of respect for my relative Sally. In my book, she’s a pretty special gal. Like I said before, she’s truly serving God. And best of all, it’s not because she feels a Christian obligation. Like you alluded to in your link post, it’s simply the leading of her heart. I try to live by three Biblical truths, which I think paramount. To be sure, there’s more to it. However, all else seems to derive from these. 1. Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. 2. Love God and others by word, obedience and deed. 3. Spread the Gospel. As long as these are my focus, I never miss the target very far. It’s too bad my focus isn’t always what it should be! | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.47.80.202 |
For me there isnt anything salvalgable or reminiscent about Hobart and FA. People followed a man, they died because of what he said. It was all for NOTHING. Thats how I feel about it. The pain and suffering that I endured and my relative continues to endure to this day because of what Hobart said, all of it for NOTHING. There was no need for it. Just because Hobart was alive then, we shouldnt go to the doctors but now its ok? I dont get you peoples reasoning. To go back and point to this or that about how great Hobart was does him no justice. And what is this "Imagine" mess you came up with Hombre. What are you, John Lennon? Why dont you Imagine this: a person who refuses to get glasses, cant drive, has to be waited on hand and foot, wont get a physical in order to claim 100% disability, all because of Hobart showing us the "word" Something in the "word" that the rest of the world somehow missed. I dont need to do any "Imagining" there Hombre, I got reality to deal with. The only "Imagining" I can do is for a different reality, one without Hobart in it! | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
...it is amazing to me, how that 2 people who have experienced similar things can develop entirely different viewpoints. PASSIN: I'm glad to hear that you have been able to recognize the difference between the baby and the bathwater, and still retain a positive attitude, in spite of what you've seen. HEALED: I don't know what to say to you. It would appear that you simply aren't interested in doing anything but cursing at this time. That sort of attitude is going to eat you alive and get you nowhere except more and more bitter. God has more for your life than that. | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.41.145.199 |
Im not going to let anything "eat me alive" as you put it. Now Ive seen cancer, diabeties, and other ailments eat people alive, all because they wouldnt seek out medical attention because of your idol, Freeman. What God has in store for me is to expose and hammer away at all things Freeman. Now that might eat at you, but oh well, what goes around comes around. | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
...I suppose that if HEF was my idol, that would bother me; but the first commandment has always been: 'Thou shalt have no other gods before Me', which Jesus quoted as being the greatest, next to loving your neighbor. What you have to say for or against HEF, has absolutely no effect whatsoever upon the foundations of Christianity. It will stand long after your demise. ...I still suggest, that you strongly consider giving your life to Jesus the Christ. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 109 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
hombre, many people have been hurt by these teachings-they have watched family members die in their arms all because simple medical needs were looked down upon in favor for trusting "god". This is something that has been hanging over me for a few years because of my mom's death..But as I said before I have come to a place where I have to let people be with their personal beliefs(unless it dangers others)..it's not that I am going to stay mute on the topic..I will still tell my story and then folks can decide for themselves. healed have you ever thought about maybe working on book that tells the opposing view of these theories maybe filling it with stories of families and friends touched by the pains of these teachings..? Have a good day all...R | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
Rachel, you too, have been able to move forward and put things in perspective. It is not that I haven't suffered myself, and seen a number of people around me die also. I choose, however, to inspect the Book and my own life, and see where, why and what went wrong, and look for a solution, that works both for our practical and religious lives, and in the process, condemn no one. What I see in the lives of some, however, is the need for vengeance, which is rooted in bitterness, and hardly the sort of inspirational source that will lead anyone forward in their walk with God, as well as promoting their own positive personal development. Love...is the key, not hatred, and God is love. That's where the answer is found. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
"What I see in the lives of some, however, is the need for vengeance, which is rooted in bitterness, and hardly the sort of inspirational source that will lead anyone forward in their walk with God, as well as promoting their own positive personal development"H Well I went through a time when I didn't question-when I went along with what I was taught and stood by those who made their decisions-then I went the opposite way blaming myself for not shaking my loved one and saying "wake up- what are you doing"!!! You are going to miss out on so much life has to offer you because you wouldn't have a simple operation or take a little chemo..I was vengeful, I wanted to see SOMEONE pay for what had been taught to innocent ears... It has been just lately that I thought- you know adults have a choice and they can decide for themselves which road to take..it may not be the road for me-I can share with others what I would do and I would make a strong case...but in the end, the decision is in their hands.. I still think in healed's case- writing out the stories may help him/her cope better and may just save some lives-it was just a thought and one maybe I should also look in to as well..R (Message edited by rachelengland on May 23, 2007) | ||
| passin_thru New member Username: passin_thru Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 12.214.100.32 |
I’m not above posting harsh words when I’m frustrated or angered. I think it’s just part of Internet posting. People speak their mind more brutally here than in person. It has drawbacks, but it also keeps things interesting. I find it difficult to understand why anyone still respects Hobart Freeman. He was a failed man with a message that wrought much suffering and death. The man let children die without lifting a finger to stop it. I wonder what he would have had to do for people to have said, “Enough!” I have, at length, posted about the fruits of Freeman. I think they are his legacy. I also look at the fruits of the whole word-of-faith movement. I can’t see much good coming from the likes of Hinn, Copeland, Duplantis, Crefflo Dollar and all the rest. I see mostly a bunch of proverbial used car salesmen. I see Christians consumed with wanting ‘things’ from God. It seems to be their reason for believing. I don’t believe God hands out Cadillac’s and perfect health to ‘true’ believers who master some faith formula. Christians live in the temporal world like everyone else. We prosper or suffer like the mere human beings we are. However, as I’ve posted before, God heals! I’ve experienced miracles in my life. Maybe no physical laws were suspended, but that’s not how I define a miracle. I consider myself truly blessed just to live where there isn’t unburied dead in the street, and children don’t play in the filth of open sewers amidst gunfire. I have good health, a roof over my head, clean water, plenty of food, more than enough clothes and every necessity (including some toys). Most people in the world don’t come close to that kind of health and prosperity. P.S. Hombre wrote, “Love...is the key, not hatred, and God is love. That's where the answer is found.” I agree totally! | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.34.241.241 |
"It is not that I haven't suffered myself, and seen a number of people around me die also. I choose, however, to inspect the Book and my own life, and see where, why and what went wrong, and look for a solution, that works both for our practical and religious lives, and in the process, condemn no one. What I see in the lives of some, however, is the need for vengeance, which is rooted in bitterness, and hardly the sort of inspirational source that will lead anyone forward in their walk with God, as well as promoting their own positive personal development." How hypocritical of you. Seems you have joined up with another Neo Freemanite over at overcomers.com to dedicate a forum for all things Freeman. I aint bitin that bait brother Hombre. Ill find closure once the mess is cleaned up with my relative, until then its living in the here and now. | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
...again, I don't like breaking my responses up. http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&goto=551&S=d14dc2d45a6bbf48d60d3ed016a02311#msg_551 | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.167.24.173 |
whatever. Seems that now you have found new company, and have had a change of heart. Seen it all before, my gut feeling is that your heart is and always will be with the teachings of freeman, (every wind of doctrine, faith, deeper life in the spirit, and all the other Freeman sanctioned mess) as well as digging back into the tapes. Im tired of hearing those tapes, always trying to creep it in somehow. Sick of that mess. Whats the deal with playing that over and over? Even as a kid, I could never buy it or get into it, like its some kind of addiction or something. | ||
| hombre New member Username: hombre Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.1 |
....No...it's just that your head is beginning to cool down, and actually read what I am writing....I think that if you go back and re-read what I have said in the past, it is no different than what I'm saying now. I've suffered too much myself, and sinned too many times as well, to be a judge to anyone, including you. The only thing I've ever tried to do is point you to Jesus, for the sake of your own personal hope and salvation. ...for some, you are right...it is a religious addiction...for others, however, who have actually been touched by the irrefutable hand of God, it is a life search for more of the same. ..there is no other escape from this world that can compare with a touch from God...and the idea of being able to commune with Him, regularly, is a privilege that is beyond comprehension. That is what I'm preaching, Healed....a relationship with Jesus Christ. | ||
| mark1124 New member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.21.111 |
If I may make my 2 cents worth: Healed, you're tired of hearing the tapes. I can understand that. But for me, I play them and I am learning from them. I want them to bring me closer to God and to help me see if there are things in my own life that are hindering me from doing so. I agree with Hombre...it can be a religious addiction for some. Some people will only listen to those tapes and none other. Personally, I would rather listen to those tapes than the pablum that we get from the average church. I have read your posts for a long time now. And I can see the anger and the hurt that you are going through. I wish there was some "magic wand" that I could wave over you that would make that go away. But there isn't. Jesus is the only One that can take the bitterness and hurt that you are going through. You mentioned about closure. Well, I see going through closure as being set free by the love of God in your life and letting God heal and deliver you from the pains of the past. Am I toning down my rhetoric? Not really. I still believe in what I believe and I guess I always will. But I also know that God loves you, Healed. He knows what you are going through and I want you to know that He cares. And so do Hombre and I. | ||
| odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 74.133.105.58 |
Well then Hombre. Have you repented of calling Healed a ‘Brat’? Or of the many post’s you and Mark used to make fun of him, calling him names. How about calling Active Angels testimony into doubt? You know Hombre you hurt her deeply. You were so protective of everything Freeman you questioned her veracity. I told you in my past posts that no one even myself blamed Freeman for her plight. It didn’t matter, heck, at one time you posted I was posting as her. You’re such a silly little jerk. That’s why I got so sideways with you some months ago. It’s interesting, you and I got along fine until you accused Active Angel of posting lies. That’s when I started to really dislike you because I know this sweet girl and my uglier side got riled up. I still want to teach you a lesson because of what you did to this innocent girl. We’re not falling for your, ‘I’m just trying to follow the Word crap’. You’re what I said you were all along, a fraud and a poltroon. I’m open for business. Unless you want to apologize to Active Angel. | ||
| healed New member Username: healed Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.47.83.250 |
Its refreshing to see that someone else can see the hypocrisy. Its nothing new, the honey trap they use to reel you in with. Five Fole Fool took the heat off for a bit, but under the surface nothing changed. |
