| Author | Message | ||
     the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Ms. Gee: Are you familiar with the Boston Tea Party? If so, please answer three questions for me. 1. Did patriots participate? 2. Did the Boston Tea Party have anything to do with the high cost of British tea? 3. Did the Boston Tea Party have anything to do with ‘taxation without representation’? Off the wall? I agree. But it is the best example I can find at the moment. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
I'm "assuming" that you are talking to me and that you forgot the spellcheck again. 1. No. 2. No. 3. When you look at the bottom line - no. It had to do with who was in control - who's legislative body had control. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
I should clarify - 1. Patriots would have been those loyal to the legitimate ruler of the time - England. 2. The cost of tea was actually reduced as a result of effects of the boycotts. 3. A number of freemasons banded together and had a significant part in the actual "tea party". I suppose the guise was taxation without representation but the issue was really who would be in control the king or the Mass. legislators. I'll let everyone else come up with their logical or illogical conclusions regarding the above. I have found it best to keep my "judgments" to myself. Still don't know what you are getting at with this. Try again. | ||
| fatherofaking New member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
pardon me for stepping in here in the middle of things. i am not even sure what the subject matter is at this point. i noticed some mention of freemasons and it caught my interest. G2u, what do you know about the freemasons? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Ms. Gee: You are somewhat right. Those who took part in the Boston Tea Party were indeed pirates. For what the pirates were selling British tea for by the cup, you could buy the entire ship load from the British. You are somewhat right on taxation. Taxation only applied to LOYAL British subjects. The King of England could not tax a Spaniard for example. My reason for asking is simple, the Boston Tea Party, as taught, sold a lot of Hollywood movie tickets. Unfortunately, the movie is not close to reality. After posting, I came up with several more examples. Emancipation Proclamation . . . Did that document free any slaves? Did the War Between the States have anything to do with slavery? The United States Constitution prohibits the ownership of slaves. Much like the Boston Tea Party, those movies sold a lot of movie tickets. All four are mythology. That was my point. When researching the history of the Bible, most of the books you will read are little more than mythology. I kept asking Mr. Pro610 & Mr. MCMSTAFF78 if they knew the meaning of 'ex parte.' Ex parte is a legal term meaning single or simple interest. Another way of saying that is self-interest. Chevrolet, for example, writes its advertizing slicks with its interest in mind, not the consumer’s. Bottom line on research, a lot of what you find will be mythology with a great deal of self-interest thrown in for good measure. Checking sources rarely helps. Virtually every Bible written is ex parte. The Latin Vulgate, the Revised Standard Version . . . the Roman church. Dake’s Annotated Bible . . . pentecostalism. The New World Translation . . . the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses, Bible Students, etc.). The Weymouth Translation . . . the Universal Unitarians. The King James Version . . . the Church of England. If you take the questions I asked . . . Boston Tea party; Emancipation Proclamation freed all slaves; The War Between the States was fought over slavery . . . the US Constitution prohibits slavery . . . then ask those same questions to the first one hundred people you meet on the street, Fact? Or Myth? Ninety-nine will sincerely answer fact. Most likely, the remaining response will be I am unsure. Help? I recall reading a US Park Service website that claimed Mississippi voted to ratify the 14th (?) Amendment to the Constitution in 1865. If memory services me right, the 14th Amendment deals with slavery. Mississippi was not readmitted to the Union until 1870. The same website claims the amendment was ratified by all states in 1865. Indiana and Illinois were the last two states to abolish the making of new slaves. That vote was in 1893 and 1896 respectfully. According to Constitutional law, two thirds of the states must ratify an amendment for that amendment to take effect. That, in fact, did not happen until 1896. continued | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
I know our government was substantially built on freemasonary and their beliefs. As a female I am not allowed first hand viewing to give a "first hand account" of anything regarding them. It's my understanding that freemasonary was build on Eqyptian occult beliefs. I also see it as a discriminatory group. Even if I was "so inclined" (which I'm not) I would not be able to join their Eastern Stars group. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Most sources will contain errors. All sources are ex parte. All sources will be discredited by the other sources. All sources are written with a great deal of sincerity and a genuine desire for the truth. OOPS! I forgot one. War is never fought for ‘control’ as you implied. The exclusive reason for war is the right to write the history book. If Hitler had won WWII, would his history book contained the Holocaust? If Japan had won, what would be the history of Pearl Harbor? All sources will be written with the idea, we won, so that makes us right and you wrong. Along the line, you will find a common thread in all sources. Taxation was indeed on the minds of many during the creation of this great nation . . . not who gets it, but who keeps it. Greed was the reason for the Boston Tea party. Slavery was a very popular topic during the nineteenth century. Again, it was a matter of where the buck stopped and not ownership. Connect the dots on those common threads and you will find the history of whatever you are searching for. As the old saying goes ‘take every source with at least a pound of salt.’ PS. I may have found you a new job! Recently I had to go out of town to bail dog out of jail. We passed the University of Alabama. Out front was a flashing message sign board with the following message “Tuition funds avaliable.” During my trip, I read a restaurant menu with the main entree being “veal cutlass.” Perhaps, you could start a consulting business correcting the wording of advertisements. Or perhaps selling band-aids! Swallowing a cutlass could be painfully painful. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
I forgot an interesting newspaper article I red dealing with dog bites. One of the statistics quoted was "Most children will be god bitten." | ||
| fatherofaking New member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
I also see it as a discriminatory group. Even if I was "so inclined" (which I'm not) I would not be able to join their Eastern Stars group. i read recently that they do not allow the handicapped. they say it is because they are unable to meet the reqirements needed to participate in the rituals. i do find this a bit disturbing. why is it that you would be rejected? (Message edited by fatherofaking on May 13, 2007) | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Here is another one for you. Dale Earnhardt Sr. Would you say he was a great race car driver? A champion having won many races? Hmm eh? ah? Hmmm UH? hmm Actually Mr. Earnhardt never won a single legitimate race in his life. In 1972, Chevrolet paid Nascar $100 million to limit the cars on the track to those that came to the dealership floor with 350 ci motors. Earnhardt gave Ford a provisional pass for 1972. In 1973, the rules were changed to include cars with engines up to 358 ci. Ford's motor was a 351 ci. Dodge was a 360 ci engine. Earnhardt lost to Petty every time Petty drove a Dodge. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
TATM, Unfortunately, most of the errors that I find in writing are mine. I have no desire to be an editor. Still in my "real" life I find that I need to edit more often. There is one "glitch" in your theory above. It is regarding the author of the book that you are trying to compare to human efforts, etc. It is a book that is "God breathed". The Word of God still exists. It existed before time and will exist after time. Satan will try to imitate The Word. Ultimately - this is the only reference that is needed: 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness . . . Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Psalm 119:89 provides us with information regarding where and how long God’s word is preserved: “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.” Not only is God’s word preserved in heaven but Jesus told the Jews that “the scripture cannot be broken.” (John 10:35) This statement would indicate that God’s word will stand fast in the written form. Therefore we know that God’s word will be preserved both in heaven and on the earth. God has promised His word will not only be preserved in heaven and on earth; He has promised us His word will be preserved forever. In Psalm 19:7 we find a promise that “the law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.” It is obvious that in order to fulfill such a promise, God’s law must be preserved for all mankind. In Psalm 33:11 a similar promise is given: “the counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.” A major principle in understanding Bible preservation is to understand that we must approach the preservation of the Bible as a matter of faith first. Evidences and facts backing God’s preservation of His word will follow. Those that oppose the preservation of the Word of God build their case on sandy ground like the foolish man that built his house upon the sand. Their doctrine regarding preservation, inspiration, and anything else for that matter, should be suspect because of the foundation of sand that the doctrine is built on. However, the wise man builds his understanding of the preservation of the word of God on his faith in God’s word and God’s promise to preserve His word. So - God is the ultimate reference. HE IS THE ONLY REFERENCE THAT I NEED.  Can you deny His creation that you can see with your own eyes? Can you deny the wind that you can feel? You either believe or you do not. If you believe - no other references are needed. Although I don't have a problem with looking at them even if their writings (and I agree that they often do but I realize that they are just sinners saved by grace like me) contain their own prejudices. God is God. Period. Thank you for providing me with this opportunity to testify about my God. fatherofaking, Because I am female. To be a member of the Eastern Stars (it is my understanding) you have to be married to a mason. I am not married to a mason. I should also add that I'm not necessarily interested in being an Eastern Star but you asked about what I knew about freemasons. | ||
| fatherofaking New member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
thanks for your response GTu. been doing some study on freemasons recently so when i see someone else talking about them i would naturally ask. thanks again for responding. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
TATM, Simple question - Are you an athiest? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Ms. Gee Ever hear of the Bible Museum in England? They have a wonderful Bible that came to mind when I read your quote. Quoting: "2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness . . . " End quote. It is called the Adulterer's Bible. A printer's error gives us "Thou shalt commit adultry." Would you say that is good doctrine? As to inspiration, only the original manuscripts were inspired. Athiest . . . No, I am well informed. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Yea. I know about that Bible. Man indeed does make many errors. God still manages to preserve His word in spite of man. Your quote reminded me that in Arizona (not Bible related) you can only beat your wife once a day. It's on the books - statutes that is. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
A couple of points. I answered your above "tea party" questions correctly - you can say I didn't - ob well. Also, I guess the Bible was lying in 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness . . . Says nothing about the originals. Jesus spoke of scripture numerous times and did not refer to the originals, etc. etc. Satan has a lot of fakes but God will provide His Word and keep these in spite of the fakes. | ||
| fatherofaking New member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness . . . it is interesting how that verse gets thrown around this message board so much. are people trying to justify god or themselves? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Mr. Fatherofaking: Mostly, themselves. Few would even recognize the verse in context. Ms. Gee: Quoting: "I answered your above "tea party" questions correctly - you can say I didn't - ob well." End quote. OB? Like yeahoah! Yabdabadoo! Like YES! YES! hehehehe | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
not aposto;ic will never answer a question about what he /she is they want tell what church they are affiated with or what their beliefs are and they will not tell you if they are athesist or not | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Thought you would like that TATM. Glad you did. Now . . . to the point: Are you or are you not interested in "really" conversing about this subject? You can see that I have a sense of humor too; however, the people that stay in my life the longest or at least those I converse with are those that are respectful. You can disagree all you want. You can point out my many errors, etc. You can laugh and even ask a question or two; however, don't waste my time. Do you or do you not have something concise and to the point that you can say regarding this subject that may be some new information that will help me with my walk with Christ or not? If not - this conversation is over. Thank you, Grace2u | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Most sources will contain errors. All sources are ex parte. All sources will be discredited by the other sources. All sources are written with a great deal of sincerity and a genuine desire for the truth. OOPS! Ok - the ornery part of me had to come back and address this. (Note ornery is a VERY important word to spell correctly if ya know what I mean. My sister found a little statute in a store once that had a similar word that started with an "h" and she picked it up and told my dad [she was pretty little] - we need to get this for mom because you know she is very ornery.) I digress . . . If I go down that path that you have laid above - particularly the part regarding "all sources are ex parte", I find myself in a position that ultimately I find that there is no ultimate truth. But there is. There is one source that is accurate. The Bible in particular agrees that there are two parties in various ways. There is the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, etc., etc. I forgot one. War is never fought for ‘control’ as you implied. Tell satan that. The exclusive reason for war is the right to write the history book. If Hitler had won WWII, would his history book contained the Holocaust? If Japan had won, what would be the history of Pearl Harbor? All sources will be written with the idea, we won, so that makes us right and you wrong. The spiritual must be seen through spiritual eyes not earthly eyes. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 45 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Hello Ms. Gee Sorry the board would not allow me to post a response to your statement above. Quoting: "Tell satan that." End quote. You missed the point, my dear friend. Sataan would love to write the history book. Given the chance, what do you think that history book would say? That he was evil? or Good? Do you think Sataan's history book would mention the crucifixion? Do you think it would mention sin? So what if Sataan gained control of a portion of the world (even the entire world)? The history book God writes will still show good and evil. It would still show Sataan the loser. | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 64 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
we all write our own history. it matters not at all what it says in the history books, we all know the truth. we are not to judge, but love. it matters not what is said about another, we are not to judge. we are to treat others with the same respect that we treat ourselves. Ec 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Ec 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is what makes man whole. Ec 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. god will show us what to do if we let him. it is he that gives us discernment of what is right and wrong. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Hello Mr. Apee, Well, maybe I might get the point you are trying to make if you would state it concisely. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
well fatherofaking . . . that was great timing on my part - huh? Shoot - humbling at least. Still TATM comes across as an athiest in disguise to me. I try to get his point but I think I see his constant questions as being sarcastic and the Lord knows I can be the queen of sarcasim if someone wants to challenge me. Good thing I have a Savior. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Am I a bad person because I find this sarcastic and funny? (By the Ditty Bops): Your head's too big It's taking up too much room Your head's too big It grows like a balloon And it just might float away And if you're unluckier than that Someone such as myself might come along And it just might pop It was an accident...it just popped Your head's too big It's taking up too much room It's filling with hot air You're making your own self swoon You're in love with yourself Your head's so big and tall How is it then your thoughts are small Your head's so big and tall You found yourself and lost us all Your head's too big It's taking up all the room It's broken through the atmosphere You're rubbing elbows with the moon | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Or how about: (Revised by me) I saw an educated girl give her hair a twirl Looking in an oyster for a pearl. And contemplate the meaning of a man with a point that's not concise. She's not a genius or a dunce, but it makes no difference. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Good day, Ms. Gee: Quoting: "There is one source that is accurate. The Bible in particular agrees that there are two parties in various ways. There is the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, etc., etc." End quote. If you should take the time to read your "one source" it will tell you who the true witness is. Guess what? It is not the Bible, sorry. You are quick to give out criticism, but become belligerent when it is returned. I dare say in your short life you have forgotten more than I will ever learn! | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Hello Mr. Fatheroffaking: Quoting: "it matters not at all what it says in the history books, we all know the truth." End quote. May I suggest you crawl out from under the rock of deception? Stand on any street corner and ask the first one hundred people who come by "Why the War between the States?" or Better yet, "Why the Iragi War?" What you JUDGE as truth is more closely related to perception than fact. Quoting: "Ec 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Ec 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is what makes man whole. Ec 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." End quote. Vanity, vanity, all is but vanity! Have you forgotten something? | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.71 |
You are quick to give out criticism, but become belligerent when it is returned. I dare say in your short life you have forgotten more than I will ever learn! Well for once we are in agreement. Anyway - actually after mulling around a bit I can take criticm. Yes it is the Word of God - Jesus that will endure forever. Still why would my God not provide me with His written word? Actually, I think the person with the criticm issue maybe someone else with all due respect. At the very least you may be my match. All I have asked for is for you to provide a concise argument. You actually did in your last post. I understood it but I'm not sure that those who are not familiar with the topic did. The judging game is a no win game so I would just drop it unless you have been put in a position of authority to do so on this board, etc. I point out that you are judging someone and in doing so slap myself down. Lord, we all need a Savior! | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
what is forgotten falls behind, what is remembered follows us everywhere we go. | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
words are like a constant drip, to many of them and we have a flood. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
:0) "too" many of them. Sorry - it just seemed to fit with the thread. I don't know. I am finding words are beautiful and multidimensional. Still it is God's words that seem like a beautiful waterfall and not a constant drip. My waves can be broken but when I see God's truth - now there is a perfect wave. TATM, I was being ornery because you were. I thought you were enjoying the match and I honestly was getting tired of the questions instead of a concise statement. I felt that it was best to voice this to you and I did. I have a feeling that I'm not alone in this on this board. You may indeed believe very much like I do; however, it is really hard to understand what you believe with your posts. I just felt that I needed to tell you that. This indeed may be your intention. Of course, the Word that endures forever is the Word that was in the beginning. Still, the Word made flesh, Jesus, read from copies of scripture no doubt and He considered them inspired. That's why I also believe that we can know the Word of God today - in our hearts and through His preservation in the Bible. Ultimately, if you will look back at the beginning of this conversation I stated plainly that I really didn't want to get into this conversation. My papers were for a class I was taking at the time after reading assigned readings along with other research. Of course, I learn more and more every day. Many of the statements in my paper were direct quotes and not necessarily my view. However, I do find benefit in the view to a certain extent. Of course Saatan wants to corrupt history and God's word in the Bible. So the bottom line is that regardless of all the numerous points made, I am very comfortable using the King James Bible for these very "simple" (not brainiac) reasons: 1. It has withstood the test of time in the English speaking world. 2. I can understand it. Maybe some people cannot but I can. I understand the Thee's and the Thou's and personally think most people do too. I have no problem with a simple revision of the Bible changing these into modern terms; however, I will point out that there are really no equivalent modern terms to these (although it could be described in several words I suppose). 3. The modern versions are based on textual evidence that disagrees with each other. (Unless you can show me that this is not correct.) 4. Ultimately, God is working on each person's heart and can use just about any version if He wanted to do this and if the person opens the door when He knocks. 5. To me - I have many of the versions - I just prefer the King James. | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
i did a little digging GTu because i wanted to know what she really believed as well. this is what i came up with. she now seems to be trying to deny any connection to the site. http://www.cultministry.angelcities.com/ ATM, all we want is some clear answers from you. you seem to want to be evasive instead. that does not lend you much credibility. it causes people to go looking for the answers themselves. if you don't want to be misrepresented then be straight forward with your answers. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
You can be a Sandy and be a guy. Santos, Santa, etc. Ya never know. | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
grace I use the KJV too, but only because most everyone around me does too. Not that any other versions are any better, but it is filled with mistranslations and errors. Let me just comment on a few of your statements. “1. It has withstood the test of time in the English speaking world.” Not true. Some words are out of use. Many words have totally changed meaning.. For example, "let" means "hinder," "lust" means "desire" which is not all ways bad, "fair" means "beautiful" not just average, "quick" means "living" and "nephews" means "grandchildren." "Corn" means "grain" for corn was only found in North and South America by the Indians. In 1611, the English language was in transition. It was between what some would call Middle English and Modern English. Many would call it Early Modern English. No one uses the 1611 KJV, even though many think they do. It was rewritten many times until it evolved into what is essentially today’s 1611 KJV actually written in 1769. It had another major revision in the mid 1880’s when more words were changed and 39 books removed. So, if you are using a 1611 KJV, it is probably an 1885 version. This is probably just as well, because very few people could clearly understand anything written in the language of 1611 and most would even have a little difficulty with 1769. “2. I can understand it. … I have no problem with a simple revision of the Bible changing these into modern terms; however, I will point out that there are really no equivalent modern terms to these (although it could be described in several words I suppose).” It is more than the Thee's and the Thou's that need to be interpreted. But more importantly, there were no equivalent words in 1611 either. The writers put their own bent on the interpretation. Since the revisions of the KJV from 1613-1880’s made (in addition to changes in punctuation, capitalization, and spelling) many hundreds of changes in words, word order, possessives, singulars for plurals, articles, pronouns, conjunctions, prepositions, entire phrases, and the addition and deletion of words — would you say the KJV was "verbally inerrant" in 1611, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, 1850 or 1885? “3. The modern versions are based on textual evidence that disagrees with each other." The same is true for the older version. I gather that you are not a KJV only advocate, this I think is good. I have asked this question to many KJV only advocates but don’t ever get much of an answer. Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one seventeenth-century English translation? | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 82 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
You can be a Sandy and be a guy. Santos, Santa, etc. Ya never know. you are of course correct GTu. i made an assumption . something that i try hard not to do. it seems i need to try harder. thanks | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Me too! I assumed that Sandy was a guy because of the sarcasm but then again look at me. Bad assumption. I guess Sandy is keeping us in suspense. Ba - I think it has stood the test because people are still buying it. The language has not changed that much. English is not a dead language - yet. You have made some good points - still I think the textual differences of the underlying text compared to these issues are still an issue that would keep me using the KJ. With your #2 - I'm ok with that. That is why I'm not a strict King James Onlyist although they have put enough fear in me to avoid the newer versions to a certain degree. For #3 - you can look at the scriptures posted above that many KJ think preserve the word of God. It really is not that important compared to knowing the Word. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Very ill worded post above. People are still using it and buying it. Also, some believe that God's divine guidance actually helped select those words that you feel have changed their meaning like corn, etc. so that those in the future might have a fuller meaning and understanding. I like that thought. I can see God doing that since we are dealing with the Alpha and Omega. #3 is really too lengthy to get into than I want to get in too. But I know in my heart that God is talking to me - all around me - through the King James Bible - through this board and all around me if I only will listen and discern. | ||
| ba2 Junior Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
grace, you at least seem to be open minded about it. This is good. It is interesting though, the writers of the KJV did not think they were inspired. In fact, it clearly states in the preface that the 1611 version will need to be rewritten as the language changes and as more is learned about the ancient language. Also, if one claims the original 1611 KJV is the only inspired, infallible Word of God, why was it changed so often and why was the Apocrypha removed in the 1880's. Further, since it was ok to make changes so many times before, why must we be stuck with the 1880's version? Isn't it time to move on with our curent english language? No, a few men got together in the 1880's and decided what parts were inspired and what parts were not. I do agree with you on one point, you can hear God's words in any version. But I believe most "KVJ only" advocates simply follow a line someone previously gave them. Many do nothing more than worship a book and miss the entire message of Jesus. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Sure - why not let's keep adding Bible versions faster than the English language changes. Which of the over 100 versions should I select or which of the over 200 New Testaments should I go with. I know that sounds sarcastic but there seems to be legitimate points to both sides of this debate. Take a look at this article and tell me what you think: http://www.scribd.com/doc/547/125-Years-of-Bible-Version-Debate-Why The wise man builds his house upon the rock (not sand) so the rock is Jesus but how do we know what God says "in the Bible". We have the testimony of nature, etc. but how should we study God's word - which version(s)? I am simply a TR person that feels that is safer to use the King James Translation than to wade through everything else all the time. I might check other versions out very rarely but if I'm going to spend soooo much time doing that I might as well learn Greek and Hebrew. | ||
| grace2u New member Username: grace2u Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Can we move on to hermeneutics? That's actually what I'm supposed to be studying right now and I have seemed to offended Sandy. This week I've been looking at the numerical principle of Bible study. What do you think about that? I somehow picked up this user name which would relate to the number 5. 5 supposedly refers to grace. You know the interesting thing about this is that I was born on the 5th day of the 5th month. I don't know. I'm sure there is some of this in the Bible for sure but one can probably get carried away with it. | ||
| pushnurse New member Username: pushnurse Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.109.25.126 |
Well, all of the above writters have very definate views on everything. I am a Christian woman who has been debating membership with the Eastern Star. My Father (A Master Mason) never "Pushed" or "Encouraged" me in eather direction. To correct a couple of things, you do not have to be married to a Mason to become an Eastern Star, & no egyptian cult in the history. During the building of the pyramids, free men assisted with the building, hence the name "Free masons." On doller bills, the eye on the top of the pyramid is "The all seeing eye of God (Not Satan)." My Father is a God fearing man who would give you the shirt off of his back. Hard working to a fault who loves his family. He retired from Ford and during lay off's, office workers were escorted from there desk, without their personal belongings. Those were mailed to them at a later date. The reason was stated to be fear of publication of company secrets by an angry worker. Talk about secret organizations! Also there was mention of the inverted star symble of the Easter Star. The star has been used in many organizations, F.O.P for one. Upside down, left right, inside out. Symbles are just that. You can read anything into them. The last book of the bible comes to mine. First verse "It came to me in a vision." People take everything, anyway they want. King James paid human men to take a dead language and turn it into english. His english. I'm not saying the Bible is wrong, but I find it hard to believe that Jesus didn't do anything worth taking about from 11 to 32 years of age. Something is missing. As for me, I have decided, after reading all of your comments to join. Fear comes from misunderstandig. My God is just that, my God and no one inside a meeting room or out, will change that. If it does, then there is something wrong with me, not the organization. | ||
| ba2 Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 69 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
nurse, you appear to be new here. Nice post. Your explanation is precisely what I understand. “Something is missing” But not just what Jesus might have said before he was 30. What is missing is the gospels of 10 Apostles. Great importance is given to a gentile who never even met Jesus. And, the majority of the NT was written by Paul, a Pharisee who never met him either. I am not questioning their work, just wonder why it was decided to exclude the writings of the other Apostles when they finally got around to assembling the bible. | ||
| still_small_voice Advanced Member Username: still_small_voice Post Number: 743 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 207.200.116.135 |
"Something is missing." Like clarity, consistency, and detail. There is a reason people argue about it and it spawned a thousand sects. Wasn't a problem when the Catholic Church was the only game in town, but when the wheels of the reformation started rolling it was like a thousand shards of fractured glass spinning in the light... yet still cracking and splintering, slowly over time... reflecting confusion, lacking cohesion, and a vacuum of where authoritative theological finality used to be. People started asking questions and a thousand different answers ensued. With as many dissenting view points. Humanity has made progress in that heretics don't get burned anymore, which is good for me, I'd a been a crispy critter. At least you can pick more than one flavor now though, even if the Pope disagrees. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 324 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Like I said - "it was my understanding" - I certainly don't have the membership qualifications which was why I made the preface to a statement. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 325 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Like I said - "it was my understanding" - I certainly don't have the membership qualifications which was why I made the preface to this statement. Someone had told me that and this is what my statement was based on. I had hoped to make it clear in my preface that I wasn't an authority on the issue. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 326 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Q. What Masonic affiliation is required for a woman to become a member? A. She must be the wife, daughter, legally adopted daughter, mother, widow, stepmother, sister, stepsister, half-sister, granddaughter, or stepdaughter of a Master Mason as well as grandmother, great granddaughter, niece or daughter-in-law, mothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, and daughters of sisters or brothers of affiliated Master Masons. (updated by General Grand Chapter Assembly (11/97). Close enough - I rest my case. It's exclusive. Not interested. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 335 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Oh ignore my post above. I have decided that Factnet is nothing but one huge peeing contest. Trying to see where that gives honor and glory to God. | ||
| pushnurse New member Username: pushnurse Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.109.25.126 |
Grace, it is sad that you are taking the whole conversation so personaly. (By the way, I can't type worth a nickle). I was raised Church of Christ and am now Methodist because of the isolation and hatred, members of the C of C called religion. I am glad to have the venue to discuss different points of view. My way isn't the best way for everyone but nether is yours. Sit back and enjoy the conversation. We are free will for a reason. | ||
| searchlight86 Member Username: searchlight86 Post Number: 82 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.106.99.85 |
Grace2u, you have a very good point, and I have thought the same thing. After participating in and out of FACTnet for a couple of years, I've concluded the vast majority of people here are more interested in seeing their ideas in print to feed their own ego than in glorifying God. There is some value in it, but there are serious limitations for this kind of topic on depersonalized Internet forums, kind of like trying to find absolute truth on 'Oprah' without sound or visuals. | ||
| pushnurse New member Username: pushnurse Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.109.25.126 |
searchlight, discussing topics on a web site is totally seperate from our relationship with God. I like different points of view. I find it a learning experience. But to say ". . . vast majority ... ideas in print to feed their own ego . . ." is a little uni-directional. I mean, how are you any different? Your view, right or wrong, is just that. Your view, but it is open for discussion if you bring it up. As is everyones right. As for me and my relationship with God, I will keep that a little closer to home. You can say anything you want to on a computer screen, but living what you say, is completly different. | ||
| searchlight86 Member Username: searchlight86 Post Number: 97 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.106.99.85 |
Just my general observation from experience here, pushnurse, which I can't prove but others have observed also (so no, I don't think it should just be dismissed as unidirectional although you are free to do so). I wasn't talking about whether anyone's views are right or wrong, but our motives for sharing them. I absolutely agree what we live out in the real world is much more important than the Matrix of impersonal Internet forums. | ||
| pushnurse New member Username: pushnurse Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.109.25.126 |
I'm sure, in many cases, you are right. I also faily sure, that these forums are how miss-information becomes fact. When I entered this site, I was looking for information on the Easter Star. What I found was a great deal of "Christian" misguided, anger and beliefs with no first hand proof. The search for the truth and facts to support that truth is part of what Jesus was trying to teach us. Some how that fact is over looked by many people. So long story short, I agree with you on many points. I'm just disappointed that I was able to witness other points also. |
