| Author | Message | ||
     churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 135 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
Is Christianity a cult like fstdt, randi.org, iidb.org and factnet.org? Is Christianity a cult at all or is proven? (as in the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible). How can it be a cult if it is proven? I don't see how this is possible, since God created us and God is uncreated as proven. I am banned at randi.org and iidb.org, but not factnet.org (not today anyway), and not fstdt (not yet anyhow). The reason they ban me is because they can't find anything wrong with the Proof for God and the love of the Lord in my life. Their owners and admins are jealous that I have what they will never have. They are jealous my Father in heaven has made my brothers and sisters in Christ the leading conscience on the planet. Compare popular music to Christian music? You'll find most music is actually selfish, but by listening to this Chritian music, you will see it is pointing to Christ, not to ourselves. Try listening to the 1st song in the 5th playlist selector. This is what is cleansing, because our eyes are on our creator, not on ourselves. God never asked us to be so introspective like you see in so many selfish popular songs. As a consequence of worshipping and prostrating yourself to Him, grace enters. This is the experience of the most spiritual Christians and even babes in Christ. If you don't know this grace, you don't know God, for the grace begins at new birth when you are born-again into God's kingdom to receive the Holy Spirit and have eternal life which is more than just eternal blessings, but also is an ability given to have a relationship with God (1 Cor. 2.13-interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit) which unregenerates are without. You got lots of music to listen to here, so get to it! Spend some quite relaxed conscientious time listening to it to help lead you to Christ. Praise the Lord! | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 136 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
It also helps to see the redemptive design as Biblical psychology touching to the depths of your spirit's intuition and conscience to able able to commune with God's life if your spirit has been quickened. Like all things in life there must be a proper starting point to whatever you authentically enter into. So is it true of God's plan. I really like the 1st song in the 2nd playlist selector. Very moving. How could you possibly resist Christ now? (Message edited by Churchworker on May 08, 2007) | ||
| iamwhoiam Intermediate Member Username: iamwhoiam Post Number: 148 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
You got lots of music to listen to here, so get to it! Spend some quite relaxed conscientious time listening to it to help lead you to Christ. how much more of this are we going to have to bear? is there no justice? why is it that we must endure people like this? i either must judge myself as a lunatic and confess i am blind to my own character, or this man is ill. may judgement come quickly. | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
iamwhoiam, Duh! lol. But you are a bad man.
This is not something to bear, but to enjoy. Those unhappy souls can't bear the joy of the Lord that Christians have. You are not a lunatic, but you are blind, because you are on your way to hell. That is what the evidence tells us. So Pascal, a famous Christian, says the risk of you being wrong is immense, but if the Christian is wrong, no big deal. Let me tell how long judgment will come to you. According to John 3.18, it says you are already condemned. You will die in a couple decades, then you will go to the bad side of hades (timeless unawares) where the rich man went and licked his lips dry because it was so hot there. You will spend a considerable amount of time in the bad side of hades (which is not hell). When Christ returns, you will still remain in hades. The thousand years commences. This thousand years can be a literal thousand years or may be a great length of period. Either way, you will spend the duration there. Only at the end of this time when Satan is let loose for a short while, will you finally be resurrected and JUDGED at Great White Throne. You'll have nothing to say for yourself because you will know you belong in hell when now you may delude yourself if you think you are not going there. God's words to you will be so utterly clear to you at that time, that you will know it. Then you are thrown into hell forever to be consciously aware forever of your wrong choice and to keep you away from God's sons and daughters. Isn't God wonderful? That He would protect His people from your ugliness? Praise the Lord! I love God so much. He is so awesome! Everything He does is right! And there is not a thing you can do about it. Wow! | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 140 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
I just wanted to try out topurl. Not sure what it is. If I had to recommend one thing to read more than anything else besides the Word of God, it would be this page. | ||
| iamwhoiam Intermediate Member Username: iamwhoiam Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
ok i give up. tell me what i must do to be saved. you must be proud of yourself. you have made me feel like a worm. now you can tell me how to be saved. you must be giddy. i am nothing but a worm. what must i do to be saved from this wretched life? | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
The first 75% of the Bible which is the OT makes you feel like a hopeless case, because no man can keep the law. Read chapter 3 of John from start to finish. Go lie down in your bed with the Bible and let it sink in. Or sit at your desk if it quieter there. | ||
| iamwhoiam Intermediate Member Username: iamwhoiam Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
is that it? you are such a piece of ••••. you take someone's head and mess with it until they feel worthless, and then you tell them to read a chapter in the bible. you don't have a decent bone in your body. that is what you call salvation? i should have played a long for a while to see what other crap you would come up with for me to do. do you enjoy making people feel guilty? does it appease your rotten conscience to see people squirm? i'll bet you really were giddy over this. if factnet does not ban you today, they will have an entire messageboard complaining to them until they do ban you. (Message edited by iamwhoiam on May 09, 2007) | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
God is not messing with your head when he tells you that you are a sinner. This is reality, you are born into sin. You are not worthless, but you are hopeless to try to solve your own problems, because you are foundationally lost in your sin nature which corrupts you and disables you from truly being good. As soon as you think you got one thing handled, sin pops up elsewhere, because the root of sin has not been dealt with by having your old man die on the cross with Christ. You are still made in God's image so you are very valuable to God, but your sin day by day is causing you die a little more. You feel guilty. Listen to your conscience. It is telling you that you need to be saved by God. When you come to the cross as a helpless sinner, don't squirm, for this is not how God receives humility. Don't be so proud of those who gather around to martyr Christians as the Pharisees gathered around to have Jesus killed. Do you think you will escape judgment for this kind of behavior? Let go of your excuses and realize that since you can't find anything wrong with the proof for God of the Bible, then He has fully proven Himself to you, so receive His saving grace. No longer cling to self. | ||
| iamwhoiam Intermediate Member Username: iamwhoiam Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
here is somemore persecution for you. it is people like you that are the only thing in the world that can upset me as much as i am now. IF YOU DO NOT BAN THIS GUY ADMIN AFTER TELLING HIM TO STOP POSTING LINKS TO HIS SITE AND SEEING THAT HE DID IT ANYWAY ALL NIGHT LONG LAST NIGHT, THEN I WILL MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO ORGINIZE SOMEKIND OF BOYCOTT OF THIS SITE. | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
churchworker, It is comments like yours that drive me and others away from church. On the one hand you give a resource which promotes love of others and then you make extremely judgmental and negative comments about another. The 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible you put out there is based on very faulty statistics. Unless one is rather gullible or trying to find proof in something they already believe, no conclusions can be made from the paper. For the record, God never told me I am a sinner, only man said those things. God never made me feel like a hopeless case, but man often does. I do not have a sin nature, maybe I did when I was a child, but I eventually learned how to behave in society. No one in North America is being persecuted or martyred, at least not because they are Christian. I, like other Christians, believe there is truth in the bible but we all differ on the interpretation. You think all you have to do to be saved is read a document that was written by man’s hand thousands of years ago? A document that is full of inconsistencies and contradictions? Admit that there is no “proof” in the bible, just beliefs. Then and only then can the truth set you free. You won't gain knowledge by drinking ink. Arabian Proverb | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
You like every other human being has made mistakes which are sins or overassuming or selfishnesses. To deny this is extreme arrogance that is not without consequences. Because you could not reproduce anything wrong with the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible, may that be your testimony to God. The reason why a person is saved is because they believe in God, and the reason they believe in God is because of the proof for God. Christians don't come to Christ blindly with blind faith. If you did, then you are not saved: it was not grounded in the evidence, but it was just assumed. God does not want you to receive Him by assuming, but He provides a basis for you to receive salvation. God says you are a sinner. If you say some god says you are not a sinner, it is because that entity is not God of the Bible. He is lying to you. God is telling you the truth, that you were born into sin. I don't know any Christian that says they were not born into sin as sinners, so it would be difficult for people to think you are a Christian if you say you are. Deep down inside people revile Christians, and will martyr them in one way or another as was done since the beginning because of their jealousy. Christians don't merely think there is truth in the Bible, but all Christians KNOW that the Bible in 66 books is the very Word of God. Yes, there is all kinds of different interpretations, but that is why Matthew 13 is given to us to tell us there are the unsaved tares in the kingdom of heaven who try to look like the saved wheat. That is why of the 2 billion or so who call themselves Christians less than 1% are actually born-again as evident by the fact of the size of the new city that is the house of the Lord for the saints to dwell with God. Since you couldn't find any inconsistencies or contradictions in the perfect Word of God, let that be your testimony. To be saved is the simplest thing, to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior. To accomplish this you don't even have to read the Bible, but you will begin to because you have now this relationship with Him when you get saved, if you ever do. Only the truth can set you free, the Bible proves God, and that proof, without even mentioning God first, is the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible: 1) Since there is an exponential progression in conscience, you would not still be sinning by now or ever be selfish. This is displayed in the Scriptures as well from one dispensation to the next. Therefore, the uncreated created who is God of the Bible, because none can compare to Christ. 2) Since nothing in nature happens all by itself it can't cause itself, so the uncreated created who is God of the Bible, because none can compare to Christ. 3) Because so many people misrepresent God of the Bible in one way or another and misread His Word, please don't argue against some god, for we are proving God of the Bible here. 4) Similar to Step 1, because of the exponential progression in conscience, there can not be an eternity of the past of cause and effects of gods causing gods or supernatural events producing supernatural events. Conclusion: God of the Bible did it! Since none can compare to Christ. Consequently, if you have not accepted Christ into your life as having died on the cross for your sins, His resurrection and deity, then you are surely going to hell. And considering the fact that you can't find anything wrong with these findings, may this be further proof you belong in the darkest corners of hell | ||
| churchworker Intermediate Member Username: churchworker Post Number: 152 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 198.53.214.107 |
May the Lord help open your heart by listening to some Christian music here. The songs have been narrowed to just 26 of the most spiritual Christian songs to help lead you to Christ. Give yourself a chance to be saved by letting your emotion be touched. | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Your 4 step approach is so illogical that it serves no purpose to address it with you. You have been spamming the boards with such nonsense and many others have easily refuted the silliness of the concept. You ignore their comments and think they didn’t address your topic!!! For me, you are a total waste of time. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 119 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
ba2, I got to thinking and you know how dangerous that can be  but I often wonder if posters like churchworker are really sincere in their attempt here or is that maybe they are just characters being played out on the internet to irritate others and make Christians look like fools.... Hope your well ..the weather is beautiful here! R | ||
| iamwhoiam Intermediate Member Username: iamwhoiam Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
i think he is sincere as much as he is able to be. kind of like a club if you are not in the know you have got to go. people just want to feel like they belong to something worthwhile, something that gives them some sense of grounding. boys understand boys, girls understand girls, christians understand christians. any club serves the same purpose. the people in them don't hate everyone that is not a part of thier club. in fact, they try and recruit people on the outside because they think they have found something worth sharing. it is when you think your club is better than anyone else's that the arrogance becomes a factor. | ||
| trainedobserver Junior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.54 |
"maybe they are just characters being played out on the internet to irritate others and make Christians look like fools...." I often wonder this myself. Although I do believe they are serious and that they are genuine 'fools'. You can see quite clearly here in the case of the churchworker that 'thinking correctly', 'thinking critically', or cultivating an awareness of logical fallacies and incorrect thinking isn't important to him. A fool doesn't question, a fool doesn't think, a fool only parrots what he is told and he never doubts authority. | ||
| rachelengland New member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
"A fool doesn't question, a fool doesn't think, a fool only parrots what he is told and he never doubts authority".TO Isn't that the truth. It is that exact statement that describes those involved in cults-they stop questioning or aren't allowed to question. To be honest that is a very scary place to be and if church worker is for real I hope he/she can grasp that..R | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
"maybe they are just characters being played out on the internet to irritate others and make Christians look like fools...." Not likely, too much effort. It would be easier and more productive to give a logical argument. More likely a class assignment from some fundamentalist school. We are nearing the end of the semester and projects are due. I always thought of Canadians as more or less reasonable normal people. Oh well, strange ducks in every crowd I guess. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.208.12.98 |
Do you listen to Christian music or Gospel music? | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Personally I enjoy just about every form of music. Just about everyone will be soothed by music of either their own generation or the music of their parents’ generation. One can learn to tolerate other forms. The music that sooths me the most is the music of my childhood, which is the popular sound of the late 50’s early 60’s If it were readily available I would listen to it much more than I do. Most other music can bother me if I listen to it too long without a change, for example, the ditties of the 1920’s can get tiring very quickly as can some jazz and most rap. Christian music of the early 20th century is all that is allowed in my church. No guitars allowed. A few hours of it on Sunday is about all I can take. I would much more enjoy the more modern versions of Christian music but this is my compromise for keeping my marriage intact. Unfortunately, many fundamentalist Christian church leaders do not understand the history of music and have this unscriptural view that there is such a thing as a “Christian” beat or style for music. This, of course, is total nonsense and serves no purpose, but it does have the potential to build walls can keep out many potential followers and especially our youth. | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
since cain is wrongly considered evil, music has aquired a bad reputation. | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
i believe music was at first given by GOD. lucifer was in charge of all sorts of music. then when he sinned and was cast out. the musice he makes is vastly different , CHRISTIAN music will always be up lifting whereas music of the world appeals to our seneous nature sex or somethng and that is where the problem lies (Message edited by arron on May 14, 2007) | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
i would agree arron that there is much music that brings out emotions that can be wrongly interpreted. we must cultivate discernment in all things. | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
arron, you said, "i believe music was at first given by GOD. lucifer was in charge of all sorts of music. then when he sinned and was cast out. the musice he makes is vastly different..." Where exactly did you come up with that? It certainly isn't biblical? What is uplifting to me might be very different for you. How do you know what is uplifting for someone of another generation? | ||
| arron Junior Member Username: arron Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
when satan was in chare .. the bible teaches that he had all sorts of pipes "music" and as far as another generation i am not that old. are you stupid to think that i am? and where do you find it is not biblcal? | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
i have decided to plug rev. sandy's website for those that seem to have an interest but do not have the ambition to do it themselves. http://www.cultministry.angelcities.com/ | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Arron said, “when satan was in chare .. the bible teaches that he had all sorts of pipes "music" and as far as another generation i am not that old. are you stupid to think that i am? and where do you find it is not biblcal?” Typical fundamentalist, make a simple statement and get insulted in return. I find that it is not biblical because it is not addressed. Scripture does not say much about what Satan’s’ duties were in heaven. It certainly doesn’t say he was in charge of music. Either you or someone else is making that up. Even if he was in charge, what was the rhythm? What was the beat? And what does my statement about a generational music have to do with your age? I was simply saying that what is uplifting to one generation might not be for another. What makes music Godly or Satanic is what is in the heart, not what some fundamentalist preacher tries to sell you. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.61.5.114 |
ba2, Ezekiel 28 is typically interpreted by Pentecostal/Charismatics and the like to refer to Satan (Lucifer), as the prince of Tyrus is viewed as a "type" of Satan. Even if one grants the typology, the most that can be gained is that the "anointed cherub", based strictly on the KJV translation, was created with "timbrels and pipes". However, the exact meaning of this phrase is Hebrew is unclear and is translated in most modern translations as regarding "settings" and "mountings", i.e. something that jewels sit in. The LXX renders it, "28:13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold." and verse 24 is "From the day that thou wast created thou [wast] with the cherub: I set thee on the holy mount of God; thou wast in the midst of the stones of fire." which is closely paralleled by the RSV translation of the verse "With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked." So actually there is little, or no, biblical support for "Lucifer" as a "musician" and very little that this passage is even about him in the first place. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.61.5.114 |
Oh, and just to agree with this statement... ...is what the Lord says in Mark 7:15 "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man." Grace and peace to you! | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Mark 7:15 is a great statement. I don't think I ever heard my minister address that quote. And I don't think arron will care to explain how one could conclude that "the bible teaches that Satan had all sorts of pipes music" or how it suggests that he was in charge of music at all. | ||
| bear New member Username: bear Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.157.3 |
It is true, we must use discernment in our musical choices. Here is something to ponder: The term "Christian" is a noun, not an adjective; it makes a very poor adjective. Also, for those who claim that only christian music is what they listen to in order to bring glory to God, I have a question: Do you watch TV? Movies? the News? If you say yes, are they all Christian (adj.)? If you say yes, you do, then you are a hypocrite! | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
bear, I have a better question. Exactly what music was considered “Christian” before the early 1900’s. And why did the ditties of the 1920’s become the Christian style still in use today. Why does Christian music need to remain in the mode of the early 1900’s. And these following questions can’t be answered: What was the beat and tempo of the biblical music? What was the music scale used? Was there even a scale used? Can any of the music from the scriptures be duplicated today? Answer, absolutely NOT! I can listen to the ditties of the 1920’s but for me it gets very tiring in a short time. In church, they tell me that this is all I should ever listen to. This is insane! | ||
| rachelengland Junior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Ba2, Christian music is lovely for those who want to listen to it but it has always seemed second rate to me..with the exception of a few groups it just doesn't cut the mark... I highly doubt God ever intended for us to like only one style of music and we know many of the very first christian songs(hymns) were based on old bar tunes.....what they are telling you is insane..churches do not need to be regulating our musical choices... What they play inside the walls of the church is their business I suppose and if you don't like it...well maybe another place of worship would suit you better... | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 67 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.161.88.202 |
The whole problem can be stated quite simply by asking, 'Is there a meaning to music?' My answer would be, 'Yes.' And 'Can you state in so many words what the meaning is?' My answer to that would be, 'No.' Aaron Copland US composer (1900 - 1990) I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to. Elvis Presley US rock singer (1935 - 1977) After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. Aldous Huxley, "Music at Night", 1931 English critic & novelist (1894 - 1963) Of all noises, I think music is the least disagreeable. Samuel Johnson English author, critic, & lexicographer (1709 - 1784) The way to write American music is simple. All you have to do is be an American and then write any kind of music you wish. Virgil Thomson US composer, conductor, & music critic (1896 - 1989) If music be the food of love, play on; Give me excess of it, that, surfeiting, The appetite may sicken, and so die. That strain again! it had a dying fall: O, it came o'er my ear like the sweet sound That breathes upon a bank of violets, Stealing and giving odour! William Shakespeare, "Twelfth Night", Act 1 scene 1 Greatest English dramatist & poet (1564 - 1616) http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/music/31.html | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Hi rachell, you said, "I highly doubt God ever intended for us to like only one style of music" I so much agree. you further said, " and we know many of the very first christian songs(hymns) were based on old bar tunes" Here I don't agree. We have no idea what the first Christian tunes were based on. No one can duplicate in any way the original songs. The only thing you can find is some rudimentary notes with no references to what the symbols might have meant. The notes were totally personal with no meaning to someone else. Standardized music notation came 100's of years after the NT was assembled. | ||
| rachelengland Junior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Hi Ba2..when I was discussing the bar tunes I was referring to the music that is still in many hymnals today(from the late 19th century and on).not the music of Bible times-we do not have any recordings therefore as you have said we could not know the beat or structure of chords.....R | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.194.184.88 |
Ba2 is correct. However, I would suggest if one would like a close inkling of what it sounded like, attend an Antiochian Orthodox or Coptic service where the music has changed very little in the last 1500 years. | ||
| rachelengland Junior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Hi Ba2..when I was discussing the bar tunes I was referring to the music that is still in many hymnals today(from the late 19th century and on)not the music of Bible times-we do not have any recordings therefore as you have said we could not know the beat or structure of chords.....R | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
staff78 You are partially correct. But it is still a guess that the music they have been using for 1500 years is the same they used 500 years previous. There is absolutly no way to know that. Certainly, once a standardized notation was used (around 800 AD) we can be fairly good at continuing a specific piece of music. Until that time, we are guessing at best. What we can do is somewhat duplicate the potential sounds the various instruments might have made. But, that is like giving someone an instrument and telling them to look at a poem and play it as a song with no reference as to what is should sound like. Do that with 10 people and you will get 10 different pieces of music. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 47 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.194.184.88 |
Well, there is "guessing" and then there is "guessing". IOW, we are not blindly guessing, but can make some intelligent "guesses" based upon what little we do still have from the time period as well as the tradition of these churches. BTW, one thing we do know is that the early Church used no musical instruments. Music was all accappella. However, Rachel is correct that many of the Reformation and post-Reformation hymns were sung to drinking songs. Can't remember off the top of my head, but I know Charles Wesley liked to do this a good bit. | ||
| ba2 New member Username: ba2 Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
yes, but an educated guess is still just that. I just don't like the attitude of someone who insists that they know Godly music and anyone who doesn't follow their style doesn't. My whole point here was to make the point that the intent of music is what comes from the heart. What is uplifting and/or spiritual to one person, may be just the opposite to another. We should try to understand that what we want to hear in or out of church is a personal preference, nothing more. And we should refrain from condemning the style of music other churches use in their service. | ||
| ihavesinned New member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
Christian music is mostly rubbish from what I have heard. I have rarely heard an ounce of originality in it. It is built to a formula, like most pop , country and rap, and that rarely results in good art. The standout artists in almost all music are the originators, not the duplicators. An obvious exception to this rule is this guy: http://www.erichorner.com/ Sorry, the music doesn't play at the beginning anymore. They seem to have updated the site. | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.21.182 |
Well, I respect your opinion; I just don't share your view. What's considered "good art" will generally vary depending on who you ask. I find some Christian music very inspiring and uplifting. The music reminds me to maintain an eternal perspective when I cannot see past my immediate situation. Ultimately, I'm encouraged to continue trusting in the Lord - even when nothing seems to make sense. I do not think Christian music ought to be restricted to certain instruments or a certain traditional sound, and I do not see any evidence in scripture that would support the idea that drums or synths or electric guitars etc. "are from the devil". Honestly, I don't know who's in it for the money, or who's in the music industry because they believe God has called them - but that could probably be said about a lot of preachers as well: especially the Televangelists. I'm speculating here, but perhaps part of problem of the "lack of originality" in some Christian music is due to a fear some artists have that their work/ministry will not be supported if it does not meet certain expectations from the Christian community who perhaps are expecting hymns, praise & worship, black Gospel, southern Gospel, Christian AC, modern worship, or CCM. With such a limited market, stepping out and doing your own thing can be a big risk, and your Christian record label (if your fortunate enough to have one) may not be very supportive. In short, I do not put all the blame on Christian artists who need to earn a living. On a personal note, one of my favorite Christian bands would have to be IONA, anyone heard of them? http://www.iona.uk.com/ | ||
| ihavesinned Junior Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.231.150.101 |
No, I'm an atheist. My name is a tribute to Jimmy Swaggart. Try not to take anything I might say too seriously. Especially when it comes to christian music or televangelists. Anyway, a buddy of mine is a hardcore christian and he pretty much agrees that most christian music leaves a lot to be desired. Strangely, a lot of it seems to lack "soul". I heard a song playing in a store one time called "our god is an awesome god" and almost fainted. It just seems kinda corny. Like Jesus jigsaw puzzles. The glory of god doesn't seem so glorious when you cut it up into 1200 pcs. and grandma has to put them back together for fun... | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.13.127.56 |
"I heard a song playing in a store one time called "our god is an awesome god" and almost fainted."  IHS, I probably would have had a similar reaction before I became a Christian. Seriously though, I understand your perspective, and your hardcore Christian friend's too - there is some Christian music out there that I'm sorry to say is painful to the ears - with the corny lyrics and al; but, in my opinion, the good music outweighs the bad music. Slowly Christian music is beginning to progress and move out into other musical genres - but it's real slow moving! Personally (besides the celtic/prog rock band I mentioned earlier, Iona), I also enjoy synthpop and eletronica - but good Christian music in those genres is hard to come by. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
I'm not supposed to be here . . . I'm supposed to be studying.  What do you think of Iona's use of "Chi-Roi"? I like the band - just some people have different views about this symbol. | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
OK - nevermind. I only mentioned it because I liked Iona but then when I started looking at this song wasn't sure who they were worshipping. I finally concluded that they worshipped the same God I did because of the following: http://www.answers.com/topic/labarum A monogram and symbol for Christ, consisting of the superimposed Greek letters chi (Χ) and rho (Ρ), often embroidered on altar cloths and clerical vestments. Also called Christogram. I only mention this because some conspiracy theorist come against this. I feel pretty comfortable with the band and this song but would be interested if anyone else had to work through this or if it is me and my "little" mind alone. | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.22.134 |
Sorry grace2u, I was not purposely ignoring you. I never did the research so I could not offer an opinion at the time. Thanks for enlightening me. btw have you purchased the latest CD. My favorite song has to be "No Fear In Love". | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.208.83.15 |
"No, I'm an atheist. My name is a tribute to Jimmy Swaggart. Try not to take anything I might say too seriously. Especially when it comes to christian music or televangelists" IHS Still recovering heed those words of IHS very, very closely-he is one of the funniest characters you will ever meet around here and everything he says is pretty much ....well BS Hope your all doing well-if it a lovely day where you are get out and enjoy it!!!!! R | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.21.43 |
Thanks rachel, It's 30C and sunny today here in Toronto - or 86F and with the humidity, it feels closer to 35C/95F, and it's only June 2..... it's the dog I feel sorry for. How's the weather in your part of the world? | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.21.43 |
Thanks rachel, It's 30C and sunny today here in Toronto - or 86F and with the humidity, it feels closer to 35C/95F, and it's only June 2..... it's the dog I feel sorry for. How's the weather in your part of the world? | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.113.149 |
Hi StillR... Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier-I was enjoying the day!We had the same weather here in Michigan. Then around 6 we had some crazy thunderstorms -you know the kind whear it rains and hails but the sun it shining! No doubt about the dog-I have a basset/beagle mix who can't handle the heat(she just wants to eat)! BTW I was In Toronto about two years ago- AWESOME CITY! Fabulous culture and shopping-I stayed at the Pantages hotel..fantastic! Take care..R | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.16.84 |
"Then around 6 we had some crazy thunderstorms -you know the kind whear it rains and hails but the sun it shining!" Well, you certainly don't see that too often! Looks like those thunderstorms of yours in Michigan are comin' my way... Your basset/beagle mix sounds similar to my White Shepherd (always hungry). I made the mistake of walking her for an hour during the hottest time of the day - and let's just say by the time we got home - she was practically draggin' her tongue on the ground. I named her "Hope", and she'll be 2 next month. Thrilled to hear you have such positive memories of Toronto. Yes, Toronto claims to be the most multicultural city in the world. It's a shame we lost to Beijing for the 2008 Summer Games - otherwise you might have another excuse to come back for another visit. Oh well, there's always Vancouver in 2010. If you don't mind me asking, which part of MI are you from? | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.113.149 |
I am from Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was born In Michigan, lived here until I was 20..I then spent 8 years living in South America..I returned because I missed home and family-I love change and well, let me just say, this is very- very religious area and also suffering terribly with unemployment.. I too wish Toronto would of beat out Bejing.. I am not proud to see China getting to host the olympics.. Oh, I will get back to Toronto soon I hope-when I went it was fall but I need to see it in the summer and I have never gotten a better massage anywhere lol  | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 142 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.113.149 |
I meant to say I love change and am ready for another move! But my edit option isn't working.. Have a peaceful nights rest stillrecovering-don't let life get you down(that's a quote from a song by Jon Gibson the Christian version of Terrance Trent D'Arby) haha Anyway-though I am a deist, I will leave the thread this evening with an old Larry Normal song... "Why should the Devil have all the Good Music"?? | ||
| stillrecovering Junior Member Username: stillrecovering Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 74.14.16.84 |
Interesting to here that you're a deist knowing of your previous involvement with YWAM. I'm going through a transition myself; just taking it a day at a time. I would love to hear your story sometime if you would not mind sharing. Please e-mail me. stillr74@gmail.com PS. I always found the comparisons hillarious. If I want to hear TTD, I will listen to TTD and not an imitation.  | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.113.89 |
PS. "I always found the comparisons hillarious. If I want to hear TTD, I will listen to TTD and not an imitation". SR That is very good advice! And I will get in touch with you. R | ||
| grace2u Intermediate Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Thanks stillrecovering. Well I am intrigued with Iona's use of Biblical imagery. By the way, you don't know how timely your first original post on this thread was. |
