| Author | Message | ||
     turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
Hello, and greetings to your page. Well you please answer questions about your doctorate as well as your faith here. You do not have to share any personal information like how many children, if you are married and so forth.But we would like to know about your faith especially those asking. So maybe it will clear up any question we have about our already preconconceived notions. People faith has alot to do with the perception on another faith or church background. That is why we like to know? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Turtle: Do I look like a fool? I answered your questions with the official word of pentecostalism. I did not give my perspective, thank you. I disproved your plan of salvation using God's (w)Holy Inspired Inerrant Word for the Ages without distortion, paraphrasing or private interpretations. Your goals are purely to drag me into the gutter in the vain hope of making yourself look good. Don't you think after dealing with the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism for eighteen years that I might have seen through you? Adding one hundred trillion billion godzillion new thread will not add a single micrometer to your one track mind. As me mommy was given to saying, "sweep your own back porch before starting on someone else's." | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
I am asking for information why you feel you are the only one that is correct. I want to understand your point of view. How can I if you fail to answer basic questions. Look you are to old for me to try and convert to my way of thinking, but understanding your way of thinking might help me to realize what your view is. Answering by using what you think one wants to hear or listen to is often not true. | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
Looking for answers from the heart. Answers to say you don't just post from another source to make yourself look intelligent. Brains is only half smart. Heart and brains fully smart. | ||
| nicoleann New member Username: nicoleann Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 72.241.25.221 |
The only why to find out if Jesus is really God, Is to meet him your self. You can not get this from man or the bible. What I'm talking about is meeting the true living God and when this happens to you you will know the truth. All you have to do is start praying to God to show you the truth, prays have to be whole hearted God knows if your really seeking him or not. It will really help if you keep these prays in you mind(by not saying them out loud) So the devil wont know what your talking to God about. The devil can put thoughts in your mine but he can not hear what you say in your mine to God, only God can. And believe me the devil will try to lead you away from the truth I promise you if you really want to Know if God is real and Jesus Christ is the savor keep praying don't stop. I did this because the thought of no knowing for sure drove me crazy. And God did show me he is real ,that happened about a year after praying. I wasn't even sure who to pray to I would just say God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and he eventual let me know he is real and I was saved. Then after that I started really seeking to Know more of him and my purpose in life. After all he did create me. Then about another year after that I got filled in the Holy Spirit and the witnesses of the living God is living in me . I know this sounds crazy but it is true and the presents of God himself living in me is so!!!!!!!!!! that I cant even think of words to describe it, you have to experience it for your self. Its been 10 years since I got filled in the Holy Spirit and God has radically changed my life. I use to live in a word filled with fear and drug addictions. I have not picked up a drug to get high since that day and have no desire too. The peace and joy you get from Knowing the LIVING GOD is unimaginable. You will not understand it until you experience it for your self. Please get started what do you have to loss (living in hell on earth is what I loss). Jesus Christ's LOVE is for all and he wants you to want him. That truly is what it is all about. Love you all, your friend in Jesus Christ p.s. I go to Assembly Of God Church and Messianic Jewish Synagogue. Both are great places and beautiful people | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 45 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Turtle: Unlike yourself, I do not hold a private interptation. I am orthodox-historic Christian. again, I used the lunacies of your own religion to address the lunacies of your own religion. Sweep your own back porch, my dear friend! | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. nicoleann: Do you realize the religion you belong to is a cult? You need to read "The Origins of pentecostal Tongues" thread on the pentecostal church topic. You might be surprised to learn the origins of your chosen religion. ps and by the by. Your "testimony"(?) sounds like Joseph Smith. Those who knew him said when he, Joseph Smith, got religion, he GOT religion. you might note that he went on to declare Jesus Christ the illegitimate byproduct of a polygamous relationship. Did you meet Jesus Christ or did you meet your religion's crapology? | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 29 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
nicoleanne, Thank you for sharing your testimony. I do agree when you ask God to help you to know Him he truely does. I am a spirit-filled Christian and I go to a pentecostal holiness independent church. I love the Lord. I have been trying to get sandy to share with us her own beliefs because many have question her concerning her D.D. what it stands for and what she believes. She chooses not to share how she comes to conclusions but to recite from other sources. As you probably know yourself knowing God 's word by memory doesn't do much good unless you apply it to one's life. Sany resorts to what she thinks all pentecostals believe and does not get to know them at for what each individual believes. If you got time Nicoleanne, take a look at my Bible study I am doing on my site on the Holy Spirit and if you have time give me some feed back. http://www.turtle30cshell.com/HolySpiritBIbleStudy1.html I would love to here from an Assembly of God perspective. Thank you turtle | ||
| nicoleann New member Username: nicoleann Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 72.241.25.221 |
I met the one true God. God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. This was before I started going to church. The church I go to is not a cult. It is not about the church anyway, it's only about your relationship with God that matters. All I can say is that when you meet him, you will know the truth. Churches can help lead you to him but it really has to be the person himself with a whole hearted desire. There are a lot of Christians who don't know Jesus because they don't realize it's more than learning about Jesus and being involved in church. God wants us to love him back and you cannot love someone you don't know. I can read a lot of good things about a person and you can tell me wonderful things about that same person just like preachers do about Jesus. But I still would not KNOW that person unless I meet them and spent time with them. God is gentle he will not force us to want to get to know him or love him the choice is ours. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.146.42 |
Ms. Nicoleann: You must be right and all Christians a liar. Worst yet are the fools who call themselves apologist. Shame on them for calling the AoG a cult. They obviously forgot to check with your religion. | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
Belief is very important. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, Noah found grace in the eyse of the Lord. Noah was consider a righteous man. The just shall live by faith. Faith is not something one can really learn but by knowing God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I learned about God in church when growing up and also in my home but learning doesn't save you it is believing. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16. Believing and not just believing but continue to grow in Christ abiding in His love. His love is genuine. So should ours. Faith is something only God can teach us. | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
faith is something that we do not see but we have the eveidence of such as seeing our prayers answered in a miracalas way. we only need to keep the faith that was once delivered to the saints. i feel that not apostolic has had( i did not say he she did ) someone in the pentecostal church that has done somethng to them and that is wht they are so down on pentecost. it seems they are not about any other religion just the pentecostals. | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
Arron God bless you with this response when you said "faith is something that we do not see but we have the eveidence of such as seeing our prayers answered in a miracalas way. we only need to keep the faith that was once delivered to the saints." That blessed me this AM. Sometimes you just say the right thing. Lets just Praise the Lord for the answer of prayers. turtle | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
turtle so glad you got blessed you have blessed me so many times. and i have never gotten an answer to the question i asked of the same one you asked i think they dont have any doctorate or any education like they say either they have been wronged by some one in pentecost and will not admit it. if i felt like every one who disagrees with me was going to hell ... oh there would be so many but we can agree to disagree whne it is on some thing that is not essential to our salvation and weather one speaks in tongues or not is not esential to our salvation .. only one thing is and that is to BE BORN again BY FAITH IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS. i apprecaite your talking on this thread you are one of the bright spots. | ||
| dreama275 Junior Member Username: dreama275 Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 67.185.8.218 |
You don't even know much about Smith. I have been posting you have not been listening. | ||
| nicoleann New member Username: nicoleann Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 72.241.25.221 |
Turtle thanks for the bile study sit. I'm sorry to say I have not had time to check it out. I will try to in the near future, things are really busy in my life. I did want to let you know that I could not really give you an assembly of God perspective. Iv been going to my church for eight years and have never come across anything I felt was wrong according to the knowledge I know from the enlightenment of the Holey Spirit. Personally I believe there's no perfect church out there yet. I do believe eventually Jesus will perfect his church. Hes still working on us. I also think Jesus's church is his bride and we all come from different denominations and when we do become perfect he will come for us. As far as exactly what the Assembly's of God perspective is, you probably could Google it and find a church web sit and find that info. | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
Nicoleanne, I understand full will I was not raise pentecostal but I have yet to find anything I disagree with when it comes to the basic in faith. I come from a Baptist background and then went pentecostal. The true church of Jesus Christ is made up of many denomination with many different doctrinal stance but with one thing in commong. Ephesians 4:4-16 KJV (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. (8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Thank you if you have time to take a look I would appreciate it. I can understand you being busy. I think I may need to take a break from these boards for about a week. TAMA will be happy. turtle | ||
| purification7 New member Username: purification7 Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 4.174.133.86 |
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: WoW that would be nice, unity of faith. | ||
| turtle Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.239.149 |
And to think tht is what heaven will be like purifcation07 | ||
| discerner New member Username: discerner Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.236.178.156 |
Turtle.....from what I gather from TATM..this person's name is Sandy and attended Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia as a seminary student see this link: http://members4.boardhost.com/apostolic/msg/614.html | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1668 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
So she is enjoy giving us all a hard time, I take it.I wonder how many students are on this board. Probably do not want to know and how many professors. And have I disrupted a class. It occurred to me a week ago. After seeing a post. Well I did come to learn. lol | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1669 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=ybr_vzn&p=Liberty+university+factnet Sorry for disrupting class. I hope you don't decide to charge me. I appreciate you all bearing with me. By the way in my defense I found it through searching the internet. turtle. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 961 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
The Right Reverent and most Holy, Ms. Turtle: I met Dr. Falwell during a seminar on "Religious Ethics". Something, I might add would help you tremendously. To begin, "been there, done that," we have already discussed that messageboard. It is not mine. Nor did I attend Liberty Bible College or Liberty University or Liberty Bible Seminary, sorry. Now try really really hard to tell people who is the female preacher in this discussion. Surely, you are not ashame of your sexuality? | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1670 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Plese do not use the word Holy. And true I need alot of courses. But am I really the minister here and if so how come with so many with knowledge of the Bible. And beside I have admitted I am not ordained and wish to go to college. Actually I went for a little while to college, but I did not have any passion for learning like I do now. Yet I doubt If I could handle a full course load. So the true minister may not even be on this board. But then the greatest debate could began do you have to have a degree and ordaination to minister. And the answer is no. | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1671 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
By the way I finally got my answer I was looking for the other day on this board. Or what I suspect is my answer. so I am leaving this site, but will be back from time to time whether I post or not. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 962 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
The Right Reverent and most Holy, Ms. Turtle: Why are you ashame to admit that it is you who is the female preacher? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3859 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
turtle, please do not leave we need you here | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1672 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Atam, so what if I am. I have no creditials, do you know that makes me a marked target for a cult leader. Yikes, any minister can be a cult leader. Not truly though but in their flocks minds they are put on a petal stool higher then they ever should be. For minister makes mistakes all ministers are not perfect. The real cult though is ministers that abuse their flock. Instead of pointing to Jesus they point to themselves. Arron, YOu have all you truly need, that is Jesus. He will teach you through the word. Keep reading, keep studying, and keep praying. I see alot of positive things happening finally on this board. I praise the Lord, God is at work and the lives on this board are changing. God loves each person here. Each person here needs that relationship with Christ that you and I have. They need to study, go to church if they are able and spend time sharing with others what they are learning. Part of growth is sharing what the Lord is doing in your life. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3860 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
yea turtle i try never to miss an opurtunity to wittnes of what JESUS has done for me. i think sharing this with others too help lead them to JESUS and a closer walk with HIM | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 967 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
The Right Reverent and Most Holy, Ms. Turtle: Again, I ask why are you ashame to admit you are female? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3861 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
tatm... at the risk of you saying you were not talking to me when you aske turtle that question, she has always said she was a woman she has been saying for a longtime now that she is a preacher or has been preaching and teaching. now why would you ask such a foolsh question when you want answer the one you have ben asked over and over | ||
| hardbones Member Username: hardbones Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 65.93.28.228 |
You have Doctors Degree and you think believing in a second experience with the Holy Spirit etc. is "heresy" !!!!!!! I'll resist the urge to laugh. You obviously have no clue what theology is all about. That word "heresy" gets bandied about here on the factnet with abandon mostly by sincere xians who really don't know what the word means. You have doctors degree and you don't know??? I have wondered for a while what your academic qualifications really are and to be honest I'm still not sure. When I read things like that though it really causes me to wonder. | ||
| hardbones Member Username: hardbones Post Number: 82 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 65.93.28.228 |
Well if I had read the whole thread he might have explained why Pentecostalism is heretical but I doubt it. On the faint chance he actually knows what he's talking about I'll go back and read it tomorrow. The thread was on something like are Penetcostals saved? I probably should have read the whole thing but that bit was just too funny and I just couldn't get by it. | ||
| hardbones Member Username: hardbones Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 65.93.28.228 |
Well I just went and read the thread. I more or less agreed with everything he said. My problem with it was he nowhere explained why Pentecostalism is heretical. Or even anything wrong with it other than his disagreement with their theology on the Holy Spirit. Maybe he explains on another thread. I'm going to spend more time reading there. I hope he doesn't take the site down some of it may be interesting and even enlightening. | ||
| hardbones Member Username: hardbones Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 65.93.28.228 |
Sorry for overposting here but I was just looking through your site tatm. It looks to me like you're simply obsessed. I'm not interested in any of the nonsense like "on average every three days a pentecostal preacher is judged guilty of gross immortality by a jury of their peers" What would convince me is a solid study of pentecsotal beliefs. The problem is they are as orthodox as anyone else. Posting nonsense like they are mostly oneness just makes most of us simply not take you seriously. I just think you are obsessed | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 969 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
Mr. Hardbones: Enjoy your surfing. The web site is not mine. Like I pointed out to The Right Reverent and most Holy, Ms. Turtle, we have already discussed that site. Her opening statement lists me as a student at Liberty, actually I met Dr. Jerry Falwell in Orlando Florida at a seminar on "Religious Ethics." If you look hard, you can probable find the porno site started in my name by a pentecostal preacher. ps. SH! SH! I will reveal a little secret to you. Here is my website. BUT DON'T TELL ANYONE!! http://members.boardhost.com/cults/ | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 2038 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.99.130.74 |
I'm curious, Sandy, if that website isn't yours, why does the owner use your name and why are the writings distinctly similar to yours? BTW, what religious organization to you below to; who has granted you ministerial credentials; what academic institution has bestowed a doctorate upon you? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3863 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
mcmstaff ... you and i do not agree on a lot of the ideas presented here i know but IF YOU GET AN ANSWER FROM TATM ABOUT what you just asked please let me know. for i have found them to be nothing but a liar | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1725 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.90 |
The Apostolic Truth Ministries is concerned with upholding the integrity of God's Word and speaking the truth in LOVE...  | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 980 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
Mr. Easeltine: As I told the right reverent and most holy ms turtle, IF I hated you I simply would let you burn in hell. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1732 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.80 |
Here is a suggestion for you: Many Pentecostals use the Scofield Reference Bible. You could go up to one of them and say, "The Bible says the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased in the year 70 AD." When they ask you to prove it, you can turn to Acts 2, read Scofield's notes and most of them will say, "Oh, I never read that before." That's because most Pentecostals have based their Pentecostal experience on just experience without the Word of God. Most Pentecostals don't know enough to take the heretic's Bible, Scofield, and thow it in the fire to hear the demon of Dispensationalism say, "The Gifts aren't for today...No...No.." That's what all of you Pentecostals need to do with the heretic's Bible! Start really reading the Word of God and be able to comeback with Scriptures to the Dispensationalist, rather than just base all you know on experience. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1733 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.80 |
More suggestions for you: The term that you use, "...you religion's ____OLOGY". What does ____ology mean? "ology" means the study of, are you saying that Pentecostalism is the study of poo-poo? When a Pentecostal takes a seminary course at the Kings College and Seminary on Trinity, or Predestination, etc. are you saying they are studying poo-poo? Is that what you are saying? Is this a buzz word to make us all upset at you? Also, "infantile gibberish" instead of Speaking in Tongues, Gift of Tongues, Gift of Languages does not inspire or edify anyone. One thinks you are calling the Gift of Tongues in Scripure this, along with your idea of getting a Pentecostal angry with you. These are points that you should examine, changing the dialogue may help in "speaking the truth in Love" that you state is your goal. Instead, you get people angry at you, I know that's what you really want to do. Actually, I think it's good for people like you to exist, because as I said before the Pentecostal needs to base his beliefs on the Word of God, not just experiences...so thank you for inflaming people into seeking the Scriptures to counter your ugly words and ineffective belief system. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 981 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Easeltine: Quoting: "Dispensationalist" End quote. As I pointed out to you on another thread, Finis Jennings Dake author of pentecostalism's Bible describes himself as a dispensationalist. You babble on about lunacy. For your information there are three versions of Scofield. Which version are you speaking of? My dear friend, faked infantile gibberish is in no way associated with biblical tongues. Quoting: "you saying that Pentecostalism is the study of poo-poo?" End quote. Poo-poo is not exactly the word I had in mind. Quoting: "That's because most Pentecostals have based their Pentecostal experience on just experience without the Word of God." End quote. I could not have said it better myself . . . "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1736 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.246 |
Rev. Sandy, Do you know Jesus Christ as Lord God of your life? Do you believe the Jesus Christ is God Almighty come in the flesh? Have you answered the altar call as I have at a Billy Graham Crusade when he looked at me as a little child and said, "You need to make Jesus Christ Lord of your life." Have you been "Born Again." Your allies on FactNet have stated they have not. I don't care about the degrees, the lying is bad though if you don't, what I want to know is the answer to those questions, and I have not heard it from your side on FACTNet, except for Wyoming/Alan. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 982 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Easeltine: Why are you avoiding the conversation? As to allies, I recognize none on this board. Perhaps you are praying to associate me with anyone you disagree with in order to take the heat off your false religion. Faked infantile gibberish, by any other name is still faked infantile gibberish. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1737 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
...and so it remains only Alan | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 985 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Easeltine: If you think you can start a senseless argument in order to redeem your religion, guess what? | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1674 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Do you really want me to stay??? | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1738 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Most of these Dispensationalist that I have seen on FactNet are ashamed to confess LORDSHIP to Jesus Christ. The Bible makes it clear of the outcome for those ashamed to confess His LORDSHIP. For Pentecostals - Handbook of Today's Religions by Josh McDowell, and Don Stewart, The Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin, What the Bible Teaches by R.A. Torrey, and The Billy Graham Workers Handbook, are all good basic reviews of "Orthodox Christianity." Pentecostalism meets the requirements of salvation as defined in all of those books, Pentecostals are not considered a cult, and those books go through what salvation means in detail with Scriptural references, (untwisted). Most of these Dispensationalist posting on FACTNet, do not know the Apostles, Nicene, or Athanasian Creeds, nor do they believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, nor the Word, come in the flesh. They do not believe in the "Born Again" experience. Their theology is far different from that of the books that I have mentioned. They are the cultist, they are surely in a Cult. Just read some of the posts about basic accepted "Orthodox Christianity" that are being currently posted. They and their buddies are posting terrible heresies, and are twisting the Inerrant, Infallible Word of God. I am not afraid of them or their lies, for they have made false accusations again and again about historical facts easily disproved. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1739 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Turtle, Do you agree with the Baptist theology of being "Born Again"? Is Jesus Christ your LORD and Saviour? When did you receive Jesus Christ as LORD of your life? Are you against Baptists? If not would you be willing to explain to all why? | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1675 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
You and I know you and I have beat this dead horse issue about my own salvation til we are both blue. I am baptist and I am pentecostal, but most important I believe Jesus Christ is Lord and the fruits of the Spirit needs to be evident in a person's life. Ny question is arguing really changing lives? Most people when they reach age 35 know what they believe. Is debate helping any to see the Light of God's word. See John 3 or even the Roman Road of salvation? Are you seeing results or is it just a big argument. A big free for all? That is my question? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3865 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
i do not base my salvation on experiance as such but on believing in and on JESUS CHRIST as LORD AND SAVIOR. that then gave me the experiance of being born again and recveing CHRIST as my LORD when i lived for THE LORD i naturaly grew closer to HIM nad then i began to see more for me in the scripture and i received THE BAPTISUM OF THE HOLY GHOST witht he evidence of tongues. i was sanctified prior to my receiving THE IN DWELLING OF THE HOLY GHOST. i know i had a real conversion and not jsut a think so salvation but a real experiance with GOD | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 988 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Easeltine: Quoting: "Most of these Dispensationalist posting on FACTNet, do not know the Apostles, Nicene, or Athanasian Creeds, nor do they believe in the doctrine of the Trinity." End quote. Do you have any idea what you are babbling about? I have yet to meet a dispensationalist that did not believe in the Trinity. So tell me, was the author of your religion's Bible wrong? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 989 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
The Right Reverent and Most Holy Ms. Turtle: Not a single soul was ever saved by the Roman Road or John 3:16 or baptism = regeneration. We need look no further than Acts 8:12; Acts 19:1; Matthew 7; Matthew 25. | ||
| bear Senior Member Username: bear Post Number: 1005 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
eastline, Forgive me in advance, for I must comment on some items which you posted: Most of these Dispensationalist posting on FACTNet, do not know the Apostles, Nicene, or Athanasian Creeds, nor do they believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. 1. I have a degree in theology, and I do not have theses creeds committed to memory. 2. All the creeds are the result of the councils in which they were formed. They are not scripture, and therefore can not be held on the same foundation. 3. The word "trinity" is a theolgical term, not a biblical term: - It means three-in-unity, yet so many Christians describe this doctrine in a "oneness" sense. - The early church did not have any rhetoric compatible with this doctrine. - the terms "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit" are not from the scriptures. It is rhetoric derived from the councils that were mentioned. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty... Interestingly, the scriptres do not say this either. Now, I believe that Jesus has a unique unity with the Father, and that he said that if you have seen him, you have seen the father (he was speaking about the fact that he represents everything God), yet the scriptures make it clear that he is neither the Father, nor holds the title "God Almighty". Note: Paul, in all of his writings, never once declares that Jesus is God Almighty. Yet, the councils which existed declare this to be so. It is interesting that many doctrines that we hold dear are based on the rhetoric of extra-biblical writings. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1740 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.206 |
TATM, Watchman does not. Read the posts. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1741 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.206 |
Bear, About the Trinity Fundamentalist/Dispensationalist/Pentecostals on the whole have not studied the Creeds at all. It seems to me that the Dispensationalist, especially, has rejected the idea of study of the Creeds due to the Creeds being Catholic/Orthodox, therefore rejecting the Creeds and also all of Catholic/Orthodox history. I meant by do not know the Creeds that they do not consider them or study them, not the memorization part. I don't know anybody who has the Athanasian Creed memorized. Everything you say in the first part is correct. It is a theological idea based on logic. Now, the second part: "Jesus Christ is God Almighty come in the flesh" From Handbook of Today's Religion: "Jesus is called the Almighty, "I am the Alpha and the Omega says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY" (Revelation 1:8 NASB). Compare this with Revelation 1:17, 18, 22:12, 13 and Isaiah 41:4." So, the authors actually do have the above Scripture that states that Jesus Christ is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8. Then they also have the chart with much Scriptures showing that God and Jesus is Creator, First & Last, I AM (Ego Eimi), Judge, King, Light, Saviour, and Shepherd. Jesus Christ is God Almighty by the above associations with God. Based on this the authors show that Jesus Christ is, "He was fully God and at the same time fully man." Here are some of my thoughts. Handel's Messiah for you this Christmas Bear, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulders, and His name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the prince of peace." Isaiah 9:6 coupled with Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And His Redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." He is implied as God Almighty from the above passages of Scripture. That's why the part of the Athanasian Creed that I have from memory is very logical: "The Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Spirit is Almighty, yet there are not three Almighties but One Almighty." We have Scriptures that actually states that Jesus Christ is Almighty. We have Scriptures that one can say that Jesus is Almighty based on His oneness association with the Father. We have the two Scriptures in Isaiah stating that there is only ONE GOD, and the other passage calling the child THE MIGHTY GOD, AND THE EVERLASTING FATHER, (yet we know that there is a distinction). Now, we have the logic of the Creed, which is stating to us that by the very definition of the word "Almighty", since we can show the Father is Almighty by Scripture, and we can show that the Son is Almighty by Scripture, therefore by the definition of the word, "Almighty", you can only have ONE "Almighty." I don't have a degree Bear, that's the best I can do, it's pretty theological here... | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1742 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.206 |
I think an amazing Scripture that also relates to this subject is Colossians 1:16, 17 - "For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM AND FOR HIM. HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND IN HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER." Wow! How Almighty can you get if: * All things were MADE BY HIM. * All things were MADE FOR HIM. * HE was BEFORE ALL THINGS. * In Him ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER. Jesus Christ is what holds all the atoms of the universe together! Whoa, what a concept? | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1676 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
I think I got it back now. Boy I think I have been ..... Anyway theology is kind of like science in a since. I call animals that are lizards, snakes, crocs, and gators reptiles. Same with theology we call certain train of thought different words like Trinity. Scholars use big words to describe a complex train of thought. And most average people do not study or care to study theology. Then you got those like most here that want to learn about their faith. They want to know why others believe what they do. Even if the disagree. Like I learned a new theology word I had not heard but have taught it called Eschatalogy. Sometimes what we believe and teach there is a bigger or a complex for it. Those that reject trinity doctrine I wonder if they just need to do a deep study on the subject. No insult intended there. So do not be offended. The Theory itself is hard even for many theologians. Why because we can not put God in a nutshell no matter how hard we try. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 992 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
I have always laughed at those who claim the trinity is too difficult to understand. Science donin figured it out. We have one universe in three parts (1. Space; 2. Time; 3. Matter). To make matters worst, we know matter can exist in three states (1. Liquid; 2. Gas; 3. Solid). But hey it gets bader. The Bible desribes man as a trinity (1. Body; 2. Soul; 3. Spirit). But boy it is too HARD to understand 'trinity'. Did I ferget to mention the chicken donin figured it out too (Egg = 1. Shell; 2. White; 3. Yoke). | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1677 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
ATAm- you want to know something you be correct, but I have heard a famous preacher say he had trouble. Billy Graham at one of his early crusades. Hmm. Yet the concept is easy, but our minds are finite. God is infinit in a sense. Never ceasing. And yet we can understand, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being one. It blows most people's minds when they have to think about it. It is like I am a person, I am a wife and I am a daughter to my parents. Each part having distinction but yet being the same. I do not think I like this analogy as well as I like water, gas and ice, or yoke,shell,white. But it gets the point across. Actually a good study would be look at the attributes of The Father The Son and The Holy Ghost. From old to new testament. Is there a difference. Seeing Each identy but each having all attributes help I think. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3866 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
turtle ... would you please pray for me when you pray i am not feeling too well at the time my heart has been skipping beats and i feel real tired most of the time. thank you i trust you | ||
| bear Senior Member Username: bear Post Number: 1006 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
Hello, eastline, I can not deny the description that the OT gives to the Messiah. Also, my difference of opinion here is not meant as a means of division among you and I, rather a different theological perspective. Realize that both your perspective and mine can be "proven", so this should be accepted as friendly disagreement only. My point is that while there is an equality and unity among Jesus and the Father, the NT is clear that they are not the same person. Phil. 2 tells us that Jesus did not think it robbery to be equal with God. This, however, does not mean that they are the same being. That is is the point that I wish to bring out. Too many Christians do not know how to divide the text correctly in the context of every scripture on the same theme. - Yes all things were created by him, yet Jesus is neither the Father, nor the HS. John 16:5-15 is proof enough that all three are seperate, yet one in unity and purpose. A proper understanding of these verses actually brings a better understanding of the Hebrew text which you quoted. Remember, the theological term "trinity" actually means "three-in-unity", not three manifestations, which is actually the oneness heresy. To conclude, allow me to give some examples used to describe the trinity, which in fact describes oneness, or "manifestations": 1. The egg: Yoke, white and shell. 2. Water: Liquid, steam and solid. 3. Humans: Body, soul and spirit. 4 Rolls (from Creflo Dollar): Husband, Father and Pastor. My view is not a denial of Jesus' unity with the Father, rather a different understanding of all the texts in context. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1745 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Thank you, Everybody posting above. My mind sometimes gives me problems on theology like this. I feel like I have to bang it a few times. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 995 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
The Right Reverent and Most Holy Ms. Turtle: Quoting: "It is like I am a person, I am a wife and I am a daughter to my parents." End quote. That is the lunacy used by oneness to defend their position. It is not valid. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 996 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Bear: I disagree with your assessment of manifestations. Or perhaps with your use of the word. Another valid point to understand the Trinity is 'perfect love.' In order for love to be perfect you need three things to happen. 1. Label it a 'lover' if you will. You need someone to express love (I am not talking about lust). {Father} 2. A 'lovee'. Boy, I like my legal desriptions (forgive me). You need someone or something (object of) to receive that love. {Son} 3. A vechile to transport that love. You might also call it a gift. {Holy Spirit/Ghost}. One day when my mind is working, I will give you the terms we used in seminary to better describe this thought. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 997 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Mr. Arron: I visited one of your churches in Florida over the weekend. When you feel better I will fill you in. | ||
| bear Senior Member Username: bear Post Number: 1007 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
tatm, I am always eager to discuss this subject. I would appreciate any thoughts that you may have. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3867 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
tatm.. you can fill me in now. we do not have churches in florida true there may be churches there that believe like we do but we are an independent church that is a denomanation but has churches here in the state where i live and not in florida but i would be glad to hear what you have to say about them there in florida | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1678 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Arron, I will pray but remember you have the same ability to pray as I do I am no more special then you are. turtle Tatm, God is the only one that is Holy, do I need to pull out my Bible and give you a verse.And yes I understand that Oneness concept is that and I am trinitrian. That why i do not like the explaination. But I wonder if what you are saying is we really agree, but the language of the one that understands it that way. | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1680 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Okay i think I am speaking gibberish. Bear, do you see Jesus as being the Messiah. If i understand your post correctly you have trouble seeing Christ equal to God and the Holy Spirit. How do you deal with the baptism of Jesus? What does it mean to you that Jesus was annointed? Do you know what is taught. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3868 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
turtle i am sorry, i know that my prayers are answered but it doesnt hurt to have ohters pray for you. didnt mean to convey the wrong idea sorry | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1681 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Arron, I do not mind you asking for prayer. I do not mind praying, but yeah the wrong message can be conveyed to those who are reading our post. It like ATam calling me Holy. I am not any holier then anyone else. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3869 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
agin i say im sorry cause i did not mean to imply that and for any one else on here who got the wrong idea im sorry | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1682 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Thank you Arron, YOu are a good friend. and it is good to have you here. We all are learning and growing In Christ. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3871 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
tatm. i am still waiting to be "filled"in as you say with waht ever you saw and heard in that church you attended, it was not one of ours however. | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1683 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
I think TATM was well pleased with the event. lol, Maybe even a bit shocked. lol Hopefully found that the Lord was present though things be a bit different. turtle | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1684 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Arron, You neveer asked me how I did Friday. I made it through and the Lord was with me. I never wrestled through three weeks like I did before I spoke. The Lord had victory. turtle | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3873 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.119.3 |
i preaise THE BLESSED LORD JESUS for helping you turtle | ||
| turtle Senior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 1714 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.66.229.201 |
Sandy Bryant, D.D. Doctor of Divinity major university. I guess joke is on turtle. Poor old turtle slower then molasses in january. Sorry everyone, I guess you all have had a good laugh. Thanks for forebearance. I am out of here final post. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3942 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
turtle... i for one and im sure there are others, will truly miss you/ i do prya that you will stay yo dont have to argue just keep up the good work that youve been doing. answer thier questions as you can and forget their snide remarks. be good and keep PRAISEING THE LORD JESUS. i got a book the other day at christian supply store called ASUSA STREET REVIVAL,, ONE HUNDRED YEARD OF PENTECOST. IT IS BY STRANE COMMUNICATIONS WITH CHRISMA it is very good. it was expensive but i got it at the years end book sale at the store. they probally have it at barnes and nobels or a christian supply store near you | ||
| discerner Junior Member Username: discerner Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.236.178.156 |
Don't know what happened to TATM, but I have read HER "doctrinal standard"....It goes like this (from his own site-"The Apostolic Truth Ministries-Ministering to those caught in the cult of pentecostalism"): "Election is the gracious purpose of God, ac- cording to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility." "All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation." To read more about TATM's beliefs see: http://www.angelfire.com/ms2/cultministry/doctrine.html/#gr OSAS......Here is a huge reason why he attacks those who are opposed to OSAS doctrine. | ||
| discerner Junior Member Username: discerner Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.236.178.156 |
Think we are the only one's having difficulty with TATM? Well we are not alone here on Factnet. Just click this link and you will see that someone else elsewhere is not too pleased. http://members4.boardhost.com/apostolic/msg/1173224083.html Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. The besy thing to do if she should run around in here is to "avoid them." She loves to debate. Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, DEBATE, deceit, malignity; whisperers, DEBATE; Of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, that is, (by implication) wrangling: - contention, debate, strife, variance. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.200.79.143 |
M(r)(s). Discerner: Have you ever heard the phrase, "some Never get the word!!" The website you cite is not mine, sorry. Also, you might pay a little more attention. It is well established fact that "she" is a he. I know it is difficult but paying attention is really cheap. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3978 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
tatm is a he and he doesnt believe n anything the rest of christanity beleives in. he just knock pentecostals | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
But does T(not)ATM deny that his name is Sandy Bryant and that he claims to have a DD? A simple "yes" or "no" would suffice. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3989 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
but you will never get a yes or no from him. and in my part of the country a mans name can be sandy or a girls name can be sandy, there are men whose name is staford and they call them sandy they are those who name is sanford and they call them sandy. now i dont know or care what hia name is but i would like an answer to a question i have asked over and over again.. what church by name he belongs to methodist baptist or what and who ordained him by name and wheere did he get his doctorate the name of the school | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.201.59.171 |
Mr. Arron: Dream on. I told you before, when we finish discussing the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism I will answer your question. In the mean time, keep dreaming how you got a fight started against Christianity and stopped the exposure of the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 4030 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.116.220 |
tatm... hello again i havent forgotten that you are purposely avoiding what i asked you . so when you anwer that then maybe you can get some answers also i have never fought against CHRISTIANITY , and no i dont belong to a pseudo-christian cult of=r any cult for that matter and you prove that i have. you have been proved wrong by different ones on here and even though i am not a bilbe scholor i have told you where you were wrong. |
