Assembly of God

Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post "OUT OF CHURCH CHRISTIANS"........   0  1  1-18-08  1:24 pm   Start New Thread

Author Message   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 10:16 pm:        Sat, Mar. 23, 2002 Woman gets $300,000 in exorcism suit By DARREN BARBEE Star-Telegram Staff Writer FORT WORTH - Six years after Laura Schubert sued members of a Colleyville church for trying to cast demons out of her, a Tarrant County jury's award of $300,000 filled her with joy... "This is a situation where religion went real bad," said Schubert's father, Tom Schubert, a former Assembly of God minister and missionary.... The pastor and some church members were found liable for abusing and falsely imprisoning Schubert, who was 17 at the time.... Schubert's lawsuit, filed six years ago, described a bizarre night in which church members anointed the sanctuary with holy oil, rapped on pews and propped a cross against the church doors to keep or drive demons out. ... In 1998, the 2nd Court of Appeals in Fort Worth agreed with church attorneys that discussing the denomination's doctrine on demonic possession would violate the church's religious freedom.... The trial focused on two nights in June 1996 when Schubert said up to eight youth group members restrained her while adult church members watched. "This was not a situation of prayer. They were trying to commit an exorcism on me," Schubert said. Schubert, now 23, testified that the experience led her to mutilate herself and attempt suicide and finally to seek psychiatric treatment. Her lawsuit in 141st District Court in Fort Worth had sought more than $500,000... http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/2919342.htm Darren Barbee, (817) 685-3818 dbarbee@star-telegram.com   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 1:11 am:        The Assemblies Of God is a major worldwide denomination, and are very Biblically sound. They do not use any other book outside the Bible and are doctrinally safe. I attended on for several years before moving. I would like to know what the woman said (if she was that mentally ill!) that led the people to believe that she was possessed. Some people do not understand mental illnesses and it sounds as if she sure had one! They may have thought she did have a demon, especailly if she had muliple personalities or something, and she spoke from a different personality... it's not that rare, and would feak out most pastors if they have never heard of it. There are usually gross exagerations in cases like this, since the media is so new age and anti-Christian, that it would be hard to know just what happened. Even if they did try to cast a demon out of her, that isn't unheard of in many religions... Islam (even the liberal sects), Judaism, Catholicism, and many other groups do this procedure... who is to judge about someone's religious beliefs! If the woman was schizaphrenic or something, maybe she appeared to be so unusual that she looked possessed.   Anonymous Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 4:56 am:        The Assemblies Of God is a major worldwide denomination, -So is Scientology, Moonies, Hare Krishna, etc. and are very Biblically sound. They do not use any other book outside the Bible -So what. and are doctrinally safe. I attended on for several years before moving. I would like to know what the woman said (if she was that mentally ill!) that led the people to believe that she was possessed. -If these people are crazy enough to believe that someone could be “possessed” it’s their fault, not hers, regardless of what she said. Some people do not understand mental illnesses and it sounds as if she sure had one! They may have thought she did have a demon, especailly if she had muliple personalities or something, and she spoke from a different personality... it's not that rare, and would feak out most pastors if they have never heard of it. -- True multiple personality is extremely rare, if it exists. Even if she was mentally ill, that does not justify abusing her. That’s typical blame-the-victim mentality, which is very common amongst cult members. There are usually gross exagerations in cases like this, since the media is so new age and anti-Christian, -- Give me a break! What planet are you on? that it would be hard to know just what happened. Even if they did try to cast a demon out of her, that isn't unheard of in many religions... Islam (even the liberal sects), Judaism, Catholicism, and many other groups do this procedure... -- Bullshit, casting demons out or exorcism is a procedure that is not performed in mainstream religions only extremist cults perform these kinds of bizarre, abusive, sadistic, mind-control rituals. Judaism does not include the Satan concept in their theology. who is to judge about someone's religious beliefs! --Anyone with a molecule of common sense. If you religion is being used as an excuse to abuse and exploit people, or perpetrate hatred and bigotry toward those that are not part of it, then your religion is not valid and we have a moral obligation to our society to criticize it and expose it for the sham that it is. If the woman was schizaphrenic or something, maybe she appeared to be so unusual that she looked possessed. --Or maybe these church leaders are nothing but sick twisted pigs who use their religion as an excuse to get their sadistic jollies out on being cruel to people.   Amy Moore Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 9:58 pm:        Jesus is The ONLY WAY!!! acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, no name has been given under heaven by which we can be saved!!!   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 2:55 am:        I don't know about the truth in what was written but I have heard some bad things about the assemblies of God church. I believe that they are getting off the track scriptually. I have heard about a book that a pastor wrote called "You need more money". I'm sorry but I have never read that in my bible!I believe that when you come away the word of God anything can happen..after all we are all human and sin is in us!!God Bless you all   Al Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 5:08 pm:        This is not hidden http://www.ag.org/top/beliefs/index.cfm   greatrock Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 6:20 pm:        It is a shame that we as human beings tend to major on the negative and disregard the positive. It is also strange that we have this innate desire to compartmentalise literally everything.To say that AOG is a cult is totally beyond me. This church has hundreds and thousands of members and works hard in teaching the christain faith through missions across the world. It is unfortunate that bad news or the practise of some individuals have tainted the church. However this is to be expected and would be surprised if the incident had been totally missed. I would like to add at this point that I am a devout christian but not an affiliate of AOG although I have many friends who are. It is impossible to expound on such practises as Excorsism in the denominational church or deliverence as it is known in the spirit filled church unless the student is at least partially versed in things relating to the supernatural.I do feel however that many churches tend to skip such teachings regarding such fundamental doctrines. Simply, if we believe in God then we must believe in the devil. If we believe in Good then we must believe in evil. If we believe in supernatural beings then we must believe in the creatures that inhabit these realms. Jesus said that those who believe in Him shall cast out demons and heal the sick. (Mark16:16-17)The casting out of demons must be practised by those who are trained and have been prepared to do these things. There are many pitfalls and dangers regarding deliverance. It is not something that can be entered into through ignorance or administered lightly. Jesus also said that once a demon has left it's host it will return back to the original host and possess it unless the void is filled.( Luke 11:24) If the void is not filled it will return with others.The void must be filled with the Holy spirit. (Paraphrased) Schizaphrenia or multiple personality is regarded as demon posession.(Mark 5 vs 1-15) I would suggest to anyone who is so eager to respond to such matters that thay examine scripture and base their remarks on the knowledged they have obtained and not out of ignorance. Jesus prophecied that many false teachers and prophets would come after Him. We only have to look at the numbers known and evolving in the USA right now to see the truth. I would hazard a guess,in fact I know that none of these alternative religions or cults will be as sustaining as the written word of God. All cults and things of darkness will be exposed by the light.They will die out. Unfortunately so will its members. The Truth shall set you FREE! seek it and you shall live.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 3:22 pm:        ...Spam regarding Darwin Fish deleted by Administrator...   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 9:44 am:        Lets be real hear. Once an individaul is the pastor of a church, they can pretty much do anything they want to. I know of an AOG in a city not far from me and the famous pastor has been caught in adultry 3 times and is still in the pulpit.   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 3:56 pm:        Regarding last response. A Pastor should never be allowed to do as he wishes. He should be directly accountable to the leadership of the Church. If the church has not a proper foundational leadership base it should quickly establish one as it is not operating correctly and according to biblical guidelines. I advise everyone who is considering becoming part of a church fellowship to check this out.Make sure that leaders are in true leadership positions and not mearly in roles.Godly leaders must monitor all situations arising in the church. If situations arise thus, the individuals must be approached and counseled. If they continue to disobey God or diregard advise the bible says that they must be cast out in order to repent and be saved. (1Corinthians 5-7)(1 Timothy 5:19-20) If they are in leadership and remain unchanged or unrepentant they must be removed from their position initialy for trial period and longer or permanently if the situation remains unchanged. A Pastor must never have soul authority over the church. He is and employee of it. God will always expose are hidden sins. He will reveal them a lot sooner than you think. No one can get away with abusing God's people or His church. He is not a fool. Remember, leaders will be judged much harshly than others.   Mark Joseph Davidson Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:37 am:        I have faith, and i DON'T think it's wrong for women to dress as men or vice versa! Women can wear whatever they want and look however they want, even if that makes them look just like a man. what would be wrong with a child being confused by this??? it would teach them that all people are different, and diversity is something that exists and is not a bad thing, no two people look the same or feel the same, or should! God wouldn't give us a dress code, thats lame. Why would he care what we wear or anything else about our physical appearance?? Thats all part of humanity, not spirituality or faith. I understand these things you people think, you are all only human and can not think of things in any other way, but it would not be wrong for everyone to be naked if they so chose, because that is how God created us and it is beautiful and not perverse, perverse thoughts are in the mind of those that have them, and not created by those that inspired them. I also have seen supposed proof that the bible says being gay is wrong, and it's all bunk. homosexuality occurs naturally in almost all animal species on earth, it is purely genetic! Sodomy is also shamefully mistranslated, it is NOT just anal intercourse between two men, it is any deviant sexual act! This means that any sexual act other than vaginal sex is equally sinful. I know plenty of teenagers then that are commiting just as much sin as a gay man!! Two humans sharing love and being in love and in the love of God is NOT wrong in any way, love is beautiful and wonderful, no matter what sex the people sharing it are! This is the TRUTH, and anyone who thinks differently has been lied to so much that they believe what is completely against what is obvious. love is love, period. sex can be an expression of love, and is not a wrong way for two people born homosexual to express their love for each other! it dosn't hurt anyone, and brings them closer in sharing that pure love for each other, which is not sinful in any way. Thats my 2 cents, i'm right, and if only everyone agreed with me people could be a lot more peaceful and learn to accept and understand each other for who they are, Gods equal children.   Anonymous Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 3:42 pm:        Response to last. The bible is clear regarding immorality in sexual sin. Sex outside marriage and homosexuality is a sin. Don't try and dress it up with humanism. The book of Romans 2 tells about God's response to homosexuality.( Could this be AIDS) 1 Cor 6-9 emphasises that those who indulge in it shall not see the kingdom of God. Humanism has compromised the church and has tried to bring God down to human level. God is God. His ways are not ours and neither are His thoughts. If you argue that homosexual love is right you place your thoughts higher than God's because you are calling Him wrong. God created Man and woman and the bond of love and sex expressed through that love is for them alone. The corruption of that love is counterfeit and is a product of Satans manipulation of the creative act. Adam & Eve were created naked but they were clothed in God's grace. They fell from that and their nakedness became shameful. If it was not considered so God would not have killed an animal to cloth them.Nakedness represents shame and it is seen as shameful to look upon the nakedness of another throughout the bible. Christ was naked on the cross and would have been seen from a distance.He bore our shame. The only love that is pure is that which is given by God. Believers in Christ through His holy spirit have the ability to give such love. Human love to another is purely carnal and cannot ever reach the depth of any spiritual love. Homosexuality is the lust of the flesh and is a sin according to the bible and to God. However the homosexual, the murderer, the adulterer, the abuser, the addict, etc,etc, have all been redeemed by Christ's atonement. If they have not received Christ in their lives they are still in bondage and need to be released.God say's there is no longer any reason to continue in sin because He has revealed Himself to us. Our sin has been illuminated. People who make these remarks obviously don't read the bible. I'm glad not everyone thinks like our last writer. The sooner we start to act like God wants us to, the better. Any Church that tolerates and compromises God's word needs to repent sharpish.   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 1:14 am:        "Amen" to Mark Joseph Davidson. Homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon: roughly 10% of the population is not heterosexual. Are we supposed to refuse them the human intimacey that the heterosexual world is allowed? It is like being left-handed. 10% of the population is left-handed. It doesn't make it wrong, although in the recent past grammar school children's hands were whacked with rulers to make them quit using their left hands. It didn't make them any less left-handed, it just made them use their right hands uncomfortably. You can't change a person's sexuality, either. They can't make me want to have sex with another woman any more than I could make a gay man want to have sex with me. It can't "rub off" any more than left or right handedness can rub off. What makes people think that sexuality is a matter of choice? What makes people think that gay people choose a life that results in being sometimes violently attacked, insulted, spit at, beaten and killed? Why do the Bible-toting, scripture-quoting Christian literalists always want to quote the one scripture that maligns homosexuality? God's word! God's word! If we are to take scripture literally, then why don't we still take our disobedient children out to the city gates and stone them? That is scriptural, too. I'm off my rant.   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:22 pm:        You can take some verses literally and some you can't. It's not too hard to figure out the verses that you can take literally. The book and number of the verses given previously are an example. These verses are to be taken literally. I'm not saying people are not really gay or that they are condemned just for being gay. And I'm not saying they were not born that way. I am saying in my bible the ACT is not pleasing to God. People take those verses and twist them to make them mean something that they really don't mean. Anything to make the verses say what they want to hear. But it's obvious what they mean. You can rationalize and even state "scientific fact", but it will not change what the bible says. Mark you said it was bunk. Well if you don't believe it, it would sound like bunk to you. And if you don't, then I can't make you understand what I see in it. If you do believe it's the word of God, why do you think it's bunk? You said you have faith. Faith in what? All people gay or straight are loved by God, more than we can imagine. Gay people are just that, people. As such they should all be treated with the same kindness and respect as anyone else. The verses were not written to point you out as being hated by God. You are still his child. The verses are to make you understand that is not how God wants you to live your life. P.S. I didn't write the post January 27 3:42 pm. I'm just wanted to respond to Mark's post. To the post dated January 30 1:14am you said "Why do bible toting scripture quoting literalists always want to quote the one scripture that maligns homosexuality" No one here was even talking about homosexuality until Mark posted.   Kelly Wells Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 8:52 am:        I am the lord and the saviour. Follow me into Reniors and see the real deal and the meal deal. No imposters, just disciples welcome. Gods of love or 'love gods' especially. We need more loving in this world. Go in peace my children. Wellsy.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 6:21 pm:        The AOG church here in Australia has gone right "off the rails" in recent years, and even more so under the leadership os Pastors Brian and Bobby Houston, who are the national leaders. They have become obsessed with creating wealth, and I believe that this is very wicked. "The love of money is the route of all evil", and they leave themselved wide open. The AOG church also discourages its members from thinking for themselves, or questioning their teachings. They require total obedience and will quickly throw you out if you have a different opinion. This is cultish, and I have left the AOG church now. But the important thing is to continue to love God with all my heart, "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater". The AOG might be bent, but our Lord is still a wonderful loving God.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 6:27 pm:        Yes, you are right about Brian and Bobby Houston, they are really power hungry and greedy for the cash. Brian Houston's father is up on charges of indecent dealings of a sexual nature. He was a pastor for decades. Brian is busy building a huge platform for himself, and the AOG church in Australia is sucked right in! Time will surely reveal all, but it's the hurt caused to decent people along the way that I fear. Also, that people will be turned from God through this man.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 6:28 pm:        Pretty sad all of this. I found another site called http://www.myownmind.com   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 5:28 am:        I too am familiar with the AOG church in Australia. That they are money, & power hungry. One woman, a home fellow-ship leader, has called 'her' group, her lapdogs. Not a christian like thing to say, in my opinion! To keep details short, the AOG church I am familiar with, fits the description of a cult, as I have read from FACTNet. Also, it's about recruiting & bums on seats, then empty your pockets. If they can get away with it they'll have a person paying a fair amount of money on church courses & they have a course for everything. Next thing I see is a loved relative spending all thier time & money on the church. Where does it stop?   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 2:04 pm:        What chaps me about the homosexual issue is the garbage the church teaches. The bible says to believe on the lord jesus christ and you will be saved. It does NOT say believe and if you are gay you won't be saved. I know good people who are saved and love God and they struggle with homosexuality. How dare we send one group to hell over another! I am tired of the church sending people to hell over homosexuality and holier than thou perverts are in the pulpit doing whatever the hell thay want. Why would any body want a God thats as warped as that? I We need to love and accept each other just like we are.   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 2:02 pm:        i am familiar with an aog apostle who impregnated multiple members of his study out of wedlock cheated on his wife with multiple members even impregnating two sisters more than twice and still involved with one sister whom has had 8 kids by him the oldest 18 and the youngest not even 2 and they've never been married even once. i am non denominational believer in christ and the holy bible and my conscious and common sense of wrong and right.and i date they're 17 year old daughter who i felt evil spirits all over her presence and in responce to anonymus march 23 621 this man has a total obediance over eveyone mentality i knew from adultery and bigamy and wedlock babies he was a blaspheming self appointed man of god in short a false prophet,anyway when i visit her its crazy when he visits he tried to force me into accepting his prayer in a threatning voice and also he tried to trick me into believing i was choosing medicine over god . (i had got sick after eating they're food,flu like symptoms)he says things that makes no sense and when anyone tries to correct him he says they're wrong hes always right.he began to judge me without ever having spoke to me or heard me speak to anyone calling me evil and demon possesed and i need to get saved . i am 19yrs old.i've beev saved since 14years old.i stopped him in his speech and said since you know me so well let me ask you something very simple What is my name. it surprises me you can so called prophesize me and see my spirit and future but you don't even know my name.i began to fight with the word of god he was saying i'm wrong everytime i spoke so isaid what am i wrong for name it and he couldnt the isaid but i know what youre wrong for adultery kids out of wedlock(which he said was gods plan,;but i thought god didnt want us having kids out of wedlock i guess iwas wrong again to let him tell it)BLaspheming saying god wants us having kids in wedlock false teachings. and he denied none of it and looked at me in shock that i knew sow much biblically and begAN to try to force me out of the house. i sat the bible then there in front of me to back me up and he still said i was wrong and tried to misinterpret the scriptures.theyre mother is brainwashed as his mistress they re not married and have 8 kids she sees no wrong in that he only comes by at 11 and 12 pm and say theyre going to church and drops her off at 4 and 5 am . she worships him and punishes the kids for questioning things he does that the bible say is wrong. Isaved my girlfriend from the situation by educatind her biblically because it was driving her crazy all the rules were backwards right is wrong and wrong is right and she didn't know what to think .But what about the others does anyone else know of any similar AOG situations because i am beginning to believe well i now do believe it is an undercover cult that fronts to be religiosly oriented please reply to this because i dont want those 8 kids to be corrupted but i dont want to mis interpret about a group i dont know completely about   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 6:44 pm:        I am very frightened by this churh, as they seem to take the bible literally, when in actual fact the bible is written in poetic form, I also can't beleive how many people have "multiple personalties", talk about preying on the weak. Another thing that makes me laugh in hysterics (no not any demons inside me) is that this church claims to be the only church founded by the Holy Spirit, hello wake and smell the coffee, what about the Catholic Church over 2 thousand years ago that was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ himself!!!!   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 11:03 pm:        Since I am writing a novel about an AOG minister gone wrong I really appreciated (and am saddened) by the posting on July 17th about the church official involved in bigamy and adultry. I would appreciate other stories such as these.   Wiser Now Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 10:37 pm:        Just a note to those who think you have to have a serious mental illness to be considered demon possessed by leaders in the AOG. I told a leader once that I had not attended any church regularly for a time and had left church leadership in another group some time ago, because I had not found the place I felt God wanted me to be and had been through a lot of abuse. The reality was that I left a leadership position elsewhere (not AOG) because of repeated severe, spiritual, emotional, and financial abuse that has adequate documentation for any normal, reasonable person who wishes to understand. Unfortunately, without asking for any details, the AOG leader insisted that I was full of rebellious devils. He stated that at one time he also had such rebellious devils but that he been delivered.I did not give him the opportunity to insist that I have a deliverance session and if he had, I would have left immediately, instead of trying to overlook this behavior and staying around a few more months. I can vouch for the emotional abuse in AOG churches. A few weeks later, I sat in a bible study group in the same church. A class member with a family to support who had been unemployed for quite sometime had finally found work and was required to work on some Sunday mornings. For this, he was berated behind his back by both leadership and other class members who questioned his salvation, the seriousness of his intention to walk with the Lord, etc. Some sadly shook their heads and said working on Sunday would land him in hell. I noticed no one bothered to provide him with some financial help from the church, though the man desparately needed it. Also, due to health problems, I was unable to attend regularly, and some members in leadership positions felt it was there responsibility to harrass me about it by telling me I would go to hell, was unfaithful, etc. In another instance, I applied for an office job in a AOG church. The following Sunday, I attended church there, and to my shock the pastor stood up to preach and lamented that the offering had declined over the summer and he began to berate the congregation calling out the names of individual church members who had not tithed or who had not given as much as he expected and demanded that they tell him in front of the whole congregation why they had not donated. Needless to say, I left quickly at the end of that service and never went back.   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 3:18 pm:        To the post dated August 7 6:43 PM The Catholic church was NOT founded by the Lord. Jesus was a jew not a Catholic. Some of the things the Catholic church teaches dispute the teachings of Christ.   Rev.Jay Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 4:22 pm:        I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE ASSEMBLY OF GOD CHURCH ON AND OFF MY WHOLE LIFE.THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT CHURCH.EVERY CHURCH THAT I HAVE EVER ATTENDED OR BEEN APART OF HAVE SAID AND DONE THINGS THAT ME MYSELF A REV. DID NOT AGREE WITH.EVERY RELIGION IS BROKEN DOWN AND TOLD THAT AT ONE POINT ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE RIGHT TEACHINGS OF THE WORD.LOOK AT CHRIST HE WAS KILLED BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDNT THINK HE WAS WHAT HE IS.ALL IM SAYING IS DONT JUDGE AND DONT BE SO NARROWMINDED WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE IN GENERAL.NO MATTER WHAT ALL OF YOU PEOPLE POSTIONG ALL THESE NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT CHURCHES NEED TO RELIZE THAT YOU WILL NEVER FIND CHRIST IN A CHURCH NOR ANY RELIGION.IT IS A PERSONAL JOURNEY THAT ONLY YOU CAN GO THROUGH.CHRIST YOU NEED TO ALL FIND WITHIN YOURSELVES.STOP GOING TO CHURCH AND STUDY WHAT ALL THESE PASTORS ARE SPEAKING OF.YOU SHOULD NOT JUDGE WHAT YOU HAVE NOT READ OR WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.ALL THIS TIME YOU SPEND LOOKING AT FALSE PROPHET SITES AND CULT SITES YOU COULD VERY WELL BE READING THE GOOD BOOK TO GET A GOOD IDEA ON WHAT YOU ALL ARE GETTING ALL BENT OUT OF SHAPE ABOUT. YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST OUR LORD.   Rev.Jay Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 4:29 pm:        JUNE 14TH ANONYMOUS,YOU SPEAK OF A WOMEN BEING possessed AND YOU IN ALL HONESTY DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT POSSESSION REALLY IS.YOU SAY IT IS AN ILLNESS.OKAY,YOUR RIGHT.ANY NEGATIVE THING THAT HAPPENS TO YOU IS NOT DONE SO BY GOD.IT IS DONE SO BY NEGATIVE ENERGY A.K.A. THE DEVIL SO DEVIL IS TO POSSESSION IS MENTAL ILLNESS.PLEASE GET YOU FACT STRAIGHT.   Anonymous Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 7:55 pm:        Rev you're not so right yourself. You shouldn't tell people not to go to church. Churches are imperfect because they are made up of people and of course people are not perfect. But to say stay out of churches is the wrong thing to tell people. And your comment about not spending time on "cult sites" and reading the good book seems like the pot calling the kettle black. What are you doing here? And how do you know people reading this site are not also reading the bible? People will have their own opinions. Just because you don't agree does not mean the opinions won't be stated.   Rev.Jay Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:25 am:        ANONYMOUS FRIDAY,AUGUST 22,2003-7:55PM,IM REALLY NOT SURE WHAT YOU THINK I WAS TRYING TO REFER TO WHEN I SPOKE OF PEOPLE POSTING HERE.I THINK THAT YOUR UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IM JUDGE PEOPLE POSTING.YES,I THINK THAT THERE IS A TON OF MISUNDERSTANDING WHEN IT COMES TO CHURCH AND RELIGION.TOO MANY PEOPLE WASTE THEIR WHOLE LIFE IN SEARCH OF A CHURCH AND THEY MISS THE PURPOSE AND DIE WITHOUT CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.NOW THAT IS A PROBLEM AND YES THIS COMING FROM A REV.I HAVE SEEN ENOUGH OF THIS SORT OF THING TO HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON TO SPEAK THESE WORDS TO YOU AND EVERYBODY POSTING.I SEE MORE UNSAVED PEOPLE IN CHURCH ON SOME DAY THAN I DO IN THE STREETS.BACK TO THE POINT AT HAND THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT GOD TO THESE CHURCHES AND THEY DONT GET ANYTHING BECAUS ETHEY SIMPLY DONT HAVE ANYTHING.SOMETIMES THIS MAYBE THAT THE PREACHER ISNT DOING HIS/HER JOB OR MAYBE THE PERSON GETS PUSHED AWAY BECAUSE THERE WAS OFFERING.IN MANY WAYS IT MAY VERY WELL BE THE CHURCH BUT TO GO SO FAR AND SAY THAT A CHURCH IS A CULT WHEN YOU DONT EVEN KNOW JESUS.WELL,MAYBE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE NEED TO THERE SELVE STOP THE JUDGING AND SEEK THE JUDGE.FOR ALL YOU WHO HAVE FOUND THE LORD AND WENT TO ONE OF THESE CHURCHES THEN IN MY FAITH BELIVING THAT YOUR IS THE SAME MAYBE THAT CHURCH WASNT DOING WHAT THE LORD WOULD AGREE.PLEASE DONT BE QUICK TO JUDGE THE CHURCH AND JUST KNOW THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "PERFECT CHURCH". MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS YOU ALL.   Just a gal Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 7:54 pm:        I go to an AG Church and we are as normal as it gets. We use the Bible and only the Bible, we do not have movies, books and video tapes brainwashing us."as cults do" Our Pastor opens the Holy Word from God and he gives us a message from God, straight from the Bible. We use our choice of Bibles. We are never persuaded in any way shape or form. I must say this, the Church is the people who are in it. So lets say there is an AG an hour from mine, I may go in and it would not feel like mine..........The people make the Church, not the other way around. There are Church's in every denomination that are good and some that are bad. People today are blinded, they can not see God for the goodness he really is and not only that but they do not see satan for the evil he is. You will not, can not and may not ever see any form of abuse in our Church BUT you can find the Holy Spirit and Gods love, which shows through our members. You can tell a true Church of God by their fruits.Not by the denomination. Ps.......epilespy was called demon possesion in the Bible. Some can be demon possesed and not even knowing it, mental illness does not come from God, since it is not from God then where does it come from? I can see a brain tumor ar a genuine physical condition but mental illness can be considered demon possesion as those who become possesed ast mentaly ill. Not all possesions are the same........ Some are intense and some are subtle. Don't forget we are still human, we are still in the flesh, we are not perfect "yet". Also don't forget and this is true (as all of Gods word is)We shall be judged as we judge others! So remember, when we look and point our fingers, we will find someone elses fingers pointing back at us and even though someone may not think they could possibly do what someone else has done, it will happen! We will be guilty of doing the very thing we are judging. (we , meaning, people in general) I have not heard one word mentioned here about loving on another and prayer for the lost ones of this world.(?????) I think much more would be accomplished if we agreeded to pray and show love and understanding toward one another. So I end this in love through our Savior Jesus and with Prayers for all to have the truth and Love of God!   klythm Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 10:37 am:        Every fundamental "christian" church in existence today is "fundamentally flaw." the so called theologian today is a mere replication of the theologians of old. Every proponent or advocate of the king james or any other revision of the scriptures is laden with deliberate errors and omissions and is nothing more than closet white supremacy under the guise of religion. Fundamentalism is rooted in the dogma of the 12th-14th century theologians and the so called church fathers from the 2nd -4th centuries A.D. I can prove Biblically, that most of what is being passed off as truth (Biblical) by most anglo-saxon led ministries are in fact false, including this one. I call your teaching effect mythology. I welcome the opportunity to sit down with your group and share some "basic" truths in the Holy Scriptures that most of your kind overlook. You may contact me at the email address below if you wish to prusue this further. Kwaku Olamide(klythm)   jughead Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 1:27 pm:        Excellent points. The word church is used to distinguish two things. A. The building or the name on the building and B. the redeemed or called out ones. (those who follow Jesus) We may meet in a building and call the building the church but in all reality the church is "us" And be that it's us, each church congregation has a personality just like a person does. So there are really no two churches alike and yet there are similarities due to doctrinal practice. What distinguishes each church is its doctrinal stand and its leadership. Given a period of time, the church fellowship in many ways becomes like its pastor/leader. Thus its imperative that the leader is walking and living rightly before God. The Assemblies of God is a very reputable and established fellowship over the world. However, just as at times it has happened in all other denominations/fellowship leadership can and does go bad. I would have no problem refering anyone to attend an assembly of God church, however "if" there are things not being done that are biblical, then YES, do leave. We live in a day when loyalty of anykind is lacking..I believe most cases of spiritual abuse are magnified by the media and I see more people quickly offended today than I have in the last 20yrs. Everyone seems to have to be heard,and if they are questioned regarding what they say or do, they quickly turn on you or lable you extreme or judgemental. But a large part of the bible IS corrective in nature....just some thoughts.   Yaakov Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 9:01 pm:        ]Given a period of time, the church fellowship in many ways becomes like its pastor/leader. Thus its imperative that the leader is walking and living rightly before God. I would not like to belong to a religion that defined itself by its current leader. Any leader is just mortal, while the religion is eternal. I much prefer to follow religious doctrine than any one person.   AP Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 7:28 pm:        I would say that the two Assembly of God churches I attended were normal, rather conservative Pentecostal churches. I would guess that a denomination as large as AoG would have a variety of churches, especially with the church government that they have, supposedly being autonomous, as they say, they are a fellowship rather than a denomination. I do know of some times that the leadership steps in and gets into the affairs of the local churches, but not often. All in all, I would say that if one AoG church turns out to be unsatisfactory, one advantage of this denomination is that you can go across town to another local church and find a better atmosphere there.   anonymous Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 9:36 am:        On July 15th a poster claimed that an AOG "apostle" impregnated a number of women in his church.... I question that on the grounds that the AOG doesn't even recognize "apostles." What's up with that?   Anonymous (209.86.128.158) Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 11:36 am:        Will some Assembly of God Pastor discribe the pay and benifit package to me. I realize that is something that people shy away from talking about, so that is the very reason I am asking. People can say what they will, but Pastors have to support their families too....   nurseinTN (64.12.97.10) Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 6:41 pm:        Does anyone know a guy named Paul Burkhart? I would like to know what happened to him. We went to school together at Franklin Road Christian School in Southfield, Michigan. I agree with AP, who posted on March 03. The AOG churches I have attended were conservative and casual. Awesome worship, too. I attended Northville Christian Assembly in Northville, Michigan, for 5 years.   Anonymous (209.86.129.221) Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 6:36 pm:        I can't imagine anyone of sound mind considering the Assembly of God a cult because someone was being exorcised without their permission .   Anonymous (209.86.137.42) Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 8:25 am:        The Assembly of God is a denomination that can be depended on to have a conservative view of scripture and very lively worship. There is enough variation between local churches to keep it interesting but you would have to look long and hard to find any cultic behavior.   Anonymous (81.128.94.175) Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 2:35 pm:        the assemblys of god don't SEEM like a cult to me...but then what would i know? I don't think every church in every donomination is the smae as every other church in that denomination. however, i would be a bit worried if someone tried to perform a excorcism on me! we dont do that round here not even in the christian church, except in extreme situations. Im a bit worried about people who take the bible to a completely literal degree - i mean isnt it true that some pentecostal people dont even let people wear makeup? Oh and mark joseph davidson - good post.   nurseinTN (152.163.252.129) Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 1:28 am:        During the years that I attended an AOG, I never heard of exorcisms or anything of that nature being performed. My experiences with the AOG have all been positive ones. I miss my church in Michigan.   Just a gal (64.91.148.126) Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 6:39 pm:        No they are not a cult. Not in any way.   XWalkite (207.69.92.74) Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 1:41 pm:        There are a number of exorcisms protrayed in the bible, and NONE of them were long drawn out rituals. Jesus simply spoke the Word of God and the devils left. The apostles followed suite.   Anonymous (210.87.254.41) Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 11:45 pm:        I have some questions that I hope a devout practicing pentecostal member can help me with. 1.What is the pentecostal position on illness? what causes it? 2. What causes mental illness? 3. Is it OK to take medication? thanks   Dennis Minner (216.41.144.30) Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 2:51 am:        I thought this was a legitimate site until I saw you idiots have the AOG has a Cult!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is sick! They teach ONLY from the Holy Bible and believe the ONLY things you must do is accept salvation through faith by grace PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!   steadman (68.119.47.6) Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 8:34 pm:        true the aog church teaaches the right way to be saved they have fallen into the same paths as many other holiness churches have over the oast few years... they have gotten so worldly .. in their dress actions and every thing else   EINSTEIN (216.183.185.87) Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 6:28 pm:        TO DENNIS MINNER ( 216.41.144.30 ) YOU NEED TO CHECK OUT THE TRUTH ABOUT THE AOG. THEY HAVE HAD SOME REAL NUTS IN THE PULPIT. A A ALLEN, JIMMY SWAGERT, AND I THINK R W SHAMBACK, AND OTHERS. THERE IS NO WAY THESE MEN ARE OF GOD.   Just a gal (64.91.150.84) Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 10:48 pm:        First you need to know...the Church is what?? US. Yes the people who attend the Church is who the Church is, not by the name ect........ For goodness sakes, AOG is not a cult. Im am giggling as there is not a sence of truth in this and who like to push others from God and spread rummers??? HUH? The devil. So just let him continue to do it, but what ever you do, so not take part in the rummor spreading.   Douglas (68.162.55.50) Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 1:16 am:        Yeah Dennis, it does not take an Einstein to figure that out. I think anything that institutionalizes and religiousizes the teachings of Christ divorces him from the holy spirit and is another spirit. As for past posts about bad and negative things being from the devil and good things from God you are in disagreement with the scriptures you claim to believe. God sends lying spirits and wounds, he gives and takes away, he heals and makes ill. He created the devil and did that for a purpose too. He loved Jacob and hated Essau before either had done good or evil. As for the first post here I never heard of Jesus or the apostles or any of the prophets holding anyone down to do an exorcism but the demons obeyed them. When the Catholic church does an exorcism, I believe they get permission, binding the evil spirit from speaking, from the person before doing it so if there is any restraint there it is not against the possessed's captive will.   Anonymous (66.109.136.34) Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 2:19 am:        It is a really bizarre cult. They think that there is this Geezus (sp?) guy who is going to come back from the dead and save them. They think that they hear the voice of some ultimate being they call it "god" or something like that. They have this strange book called the "Bubble" or "Booble" --- something like that. And they think that everything in this weird story book is the actual truth. They are one wacked out cult for sure.   taras (4.139.90.196) Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 3:08 pm:        Does anybody know something about TrinityLife? from Assembly of God.   Anonymous (68.119.47.6) Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 3:41 pm:        to the anonymus who wrtote on may 26... you need to be saved . you are not for you are not a beleiver if you can talk the way you do about THE LORD JESUS CHRIST who died to save sinners .. and HE DID ARISE FROM THE GRAVE   Anonymous (65.204.5.206) Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 5:08 pm:        i found anonymous' message rather amusing...thanks for the giggle.   Anonymous (65.0.43.177) Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 12:29 pm:        I dont think AG is a cult but it certainly has the raw material to become one. I was recently apart of one and I left. I had joined the evangelism team and the guy in charge of it told us that if we ever needed a break for any reason, we would never be allowed to participate again.   Anonymous (68.119.47.6) Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 5:47 pm:        i have read in some of the postsabout demon possession and i beleive in it i have seen instances were people were delivered form demon possession and were set free by the power of GOD. it may be a man dpong the praing but it is GOD THAT DOES THE DELIVERING THE AOG BELEIVES IN THIS ALSO AND SO DO I   Anonymous (66.117.230.154) Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:00 am:        Woman gets $300,000 in exorcism suit By DARREN BARBEE Star-Telegram Staff Writer FORT WORTH - Six years after Laura Schubert sued members of a Colleyville church for trying to cast demons out of her, a Tarrant County jury's award of $300,000 filled her with joy... "This is a situation where religion went real bad," said Schubert's father, Tom Schubert, a former Assembly of God minister and missionary.... The pastor and some church members were found liable for abusing and falsely imprisoning Schubert, who was 17 at the time.... Schubert's lawsuit, filed six years ago, described a bizarre night in which church members anointed the sanctuary with holy oil, rapped on pews and propped a cross against the church doors to keep or drive demons out. ... In 1998, the 2nd Court of Appeals in Fort Worth agreed with church attorneys that discussing the denomination's doctrine on demonic possession would violate the church's religious freedom.... The trial focused on two nights in June 1996 when Schubert said up to eight youth group members restrained her while adult church members watched. "This was not a situation of prayer. They were trying to commit an exorcism on me," Schubert said. Schubert, now 23, testified that the experience led her to mutilate herself and attempt suicide and finally to seek psychiatric treatment. Her lawsuit in 141st District Court in Fort Worth had sought more than $500,000... http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/2919342.htm Darren Barbee, (817) 685-3818 dbarbee@star-telegram.com Anonymous Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 01:11 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Assemblies Of God is a major worldwide denomination, and are very Biblically sound. They do not use any other book outside the Bible and are doctrinally safe. I attended on for several years before moving. I would like to know what the woman said (if she was that mentally ill!) that led the people to believe that she was possessed. Some people do not understand mental illnesses and it sounds as if she sure had one! They may have thought she did have a demon, especailly if she had muliple personalities or something, and she spoke from a different personality... it's not that rare, and would feak out most pastors if they have never heard of it. There are usually gross exagerations in cases like this, since the media is so new age and anti-Christian, that it would be hard to know just what happened. Even if they did try to cast a demon out of her, that isn't unheard of in many religions... Islam (even the liberal sects), Judaism, Catholicism, and many other groups do this procedure... who is to judge about someone's religious beliefs! If the woman was schizaphrenic or something, maybe she appeared to be so unusual that she looked possessed. Anonymous Friday, June 14, 2002 - 04:56 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Assemblies Of God is a major worldwide denomination, -So is Scientology, Moonies, Hare Krishna, etc. and are very Biblically sound. They do not use any other book outside the Bible -So what. and are doctrinally safe. I attended on for several years before moving. I would like to know what the woman said (if she was that mentally ill!) that led the people to believe that she was possessed. -If these people are crazy enough to believe that someone could be “possessed” it’s their fault, not hers, regardless of what she said   Anonymous (68.119.47.6) Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:44 am:        TO ANONOMUS 210 SICKNESS IS CAUSED BY SIN... NOT THAT THE PERSON WHO IS SICK HAS TO SIN BUT BY ADAMS SIN WHICH BROUGHT ON SICKNESS AND ALL OTHER EVIL THINGS. MENTAL ILLNESS IS A PART OF THIS EVIL . YES MEDICINE IS ACCEPTED IN THE CHURCH. I WOULD NEVER TELL ANY ONE NOT TO TAKE MED. IF A PERSON KNOW THE LORD HAS HEALED THEM THEN DO WHAT HE TELL YOU TO DO. THE PENTACOSTALS SHOULD NOT BE CONDEMMED BECAUSE A FEW WHO GET OVER ZEALOUS DO THINGS THAT SHOULD NOT BE DONE   Anonymous (209.86.139.79) Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 12:17 pm:        Don't tell me you are taking the word of a girl that had to be exorcised.   Anonymous (69.242.21.100) Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 3:09 pm:        today people are so cult aware so quick to call what they don't understand a cult .   STEVE WESLEY (68.119.205.144) Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 5:45 pm:        I CANT CALL THEM A CULT THOUGH THERE ARE SOME WHO PREACH A PROSPERITY GOSPEL   Anonymous (209.86.136.114) Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:40 am:        "I know of an AOG in a city not far from me and the famous pastor has been caught in adultry 3 times and is still in the pulpit." THREE times while still in the pulpit? Imagine what will happen if he ever gets out of the pulpit/   Anonymous (209.86.136.114) Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:45 am:        Jesus delivered many people from demon posession. How is it that people today can't accept the scripurally proven ministry of deliverance? Do you think that in times as ours, the devil is at rest somewhere, that he is a fictional creature, and that demons are not active in our times?   Anonymous (209.86.142.62) Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 3:07 pm:        The Assembly of God do have their share of problems with the ministers. Jim Baker was booted out back when he was absorbed in sin, Jimmy Swaggert got the boot as well, and so did, well I can't think of his name, but the guy that is always on TBN, also got the boot from the Assembly of God. Now that may seem like a lot of preachers getting out of line in the AOG, but consider that this is probably the biggest Pentecostal denomination in the world.   Anonymous (209.86.142.62) Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 3:08 pm:        Sorry, but I remembers his name now, Benny Hinn.   Anonymous (209.86.142.62) Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 3:21 pm:        Sorry again for making three posts in a row, but I meant to add that the Assembly of God seems to clean it's own house. They are hesitant to defrock anyone, as they should be, but when necessary, they do clean their house.   Sharon (142.177.82.194) Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:00 am:        I find that the people here are very loving and kind. I liked the treatment of the homosexual issues, much compassion. I do not see that many other places. I am not gay nor do I know any gay people but if I was I would still want to know that God loved me. I have a little piece here that you might like. Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I havea defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. May God Be With You Sharon   Anonymous (216.68.45.211) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 2:57 am:        Jesus said..."my house shall be called the house of prayer? not entertainment........social affairs........selling tapes..books...ect..in the name of the Lord to make money.....now they have car washes..ect..to make money...why can't church be praying...singing...(not for show) preaching....testifying...(lifting up God) not telling things not lifting up God...ect ect..church is one big social club..women wearing tight clothes..exposing themselves in low cut blouses..ect.......no modesty..everyone says it doesn't matte.........YOU ALL WAIT...yes, it does matte......church use to be TOO STRICT..now look what has happened..NOW we are too liberal..anything goes.......God wa sooooooo strict ..before.......nothing has changed.....we are not going to fly out of here...(rapture) as if we are all living SOOOOOOOOO good..that we are underserving of going through anything hard..we are so much better than the apostles who died terrible deaths......but, sure..we today christians are just soooooo good...God would never let us suffer........YEAH RIGHT..get real..   Sharon (142.177.7.186) Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 6:42 am:        I heard that Christians were feed to the Lions. I think God is capeable of letting us suffer for our own good. I know he is.   Anonymous (65.230.198.205) Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 6:11 am:        One problem here is, that some people act strange because of chemical imbalances, which have nothing to do with "demons". Well meaning, but ill informed people try to fix the problem with an obviously wrong solution. I have a son with OCD and Schizo affective disorder, and without his medication , these people would think he was being oppressed, but WITH the medication- he can function! WHen people get into the extremes of the "demon" thing, they refuse to even acknowledge that disease is caused by microbes and viruses, and can't always just be "cast out".   SquirleyWurley (141.157.13.94) Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 2:19 am:        Cell churches and Cleansing Stream ministry are used in certain Assemblies of God. These movements do have potentials for abuse. Shepherding/Discipling, and people who believe that some people today have apostolic authority, are indeed invited to some Assemblies of God. I am concerned that some people who are not involved in such phenomena, who go to an AOG church, are at risk of coming into contact with such manipulative groups. Keep your eyes open. Yes each church can have its own slant... be careful. Mary Alice Chrnaloger describes the discipling/shepherding/cell church manipulation in 'Twisted Scriptures'   Anonymous (64.26.82.18) Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 2:51 pm:        Guys, check this out: www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/3693   another brick in the wall (68.52.137.63) Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 3:15 pm:        Hi there. You guys need to also check out: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/584.html?1089430361 There is discussion of the Latter Rain theology or the New Order of Latter Rain. It was a heretical movement that emerged out of the Assembly of God denom. The AG Council drafted papers addressing the issues and teachings of such. Most of this relates to the Shepherding/Discipleship movement. After the 1949 AG Council renounced the fellow AG pastors who embraced the LR teachings - the movement laid low for a couple of decades but is re-emerging again under the umbrella of various ministries and outer-skirt AG churches. (including Morning Star International formerly Maranatha which is where I emerged from). Check out the AG website: http://ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/endtime_revival.cfm (there are other AG papers that you can view that are also related to the LR teachings) In 2000, the AG Council got wind that the Latter Rain theology was gaining momentum in churches around the globe. They once again reaffirmed the 1949 stance. Interesting information. Good to sharpen one's discernment.   another brick in the wall (68.52.137.63) Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 3:33 pm:        Latter Rain teachings include: Prosperity gospel Over-emphasis of demonic possession in a professed believer. Apostle-Prophet church structure Speaking out prophecies, i.e. "Thus saith the Lord" = predicting the future or one's "destiny". "Kingdom Now/Dominion/Manifest Sons of God - all deviations of Latter Rain. Word/Faith - the power of speaking out "destiny" or actions/causes - whether positive or negative. Generational Curses Please read also: http://ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/4195_apostles_prophets.cfm http://ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/4174_discipleship.cfm http://ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/4183_confession.cfm All of these were teachings in Morning Star International (a non-AG church org). You may want to see if these teachings are permeating in your AG churches. Kind regards, Another Brick   jbubba (jbubba) New member Username: jbubba Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.174.0.192 Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 5:29 pm:        AG is not a cult!!!! That is retarted to even say. I have gone to AG churches for over 21 yrs. and never once have i seen them cast out demons, or do any of this other crap some people on here are saying. I'm not saying that there ain't a bad apple in the bunch. But, there not all that way. I went to a friends baptist church, and the pastor said that it was all right to commit suicide, becuase you would go to heaven. Well sounds like the baptist church is a cult.   sweetsue (sweetsue) New member Username: sweetsue Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.116.23.216 Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 7:38 pm:        OK, Bubba, let's talk about it.....As someone on the "inside" of one of the largest Southwest US Assemblies of God Churchs, I can tell you that we have been accused of being a cult many times. How can we be? Look at all the worldwide members we have, over 16 million! Just because it says in the Bible that in the last days, many will be decieved and led astray, that doesn't mean AOG members. We believe in restoration when a minister is found out to be on prescription drugs, having an affair with a couple hotties in the chior, or other minor things that are no big deal to God. As for removing them from their duties, we can't do that without being guilty of causing the man to not be able to provide for his household, which according to the Word, makes him worse than an INFIDEL! Bubba, all these people who think that an associate pastor or a Christian counselor who is having a little, harmless affair is worse than many of the people on this thread who gissip, backbite, and spread rumors are mistaken. After all, Satan is the Father of Liars, and God is the God of Love, so who's closer to redemption. Having an evangelist in the pulpit that is on his third wife, and conducting "private social interviews" for his fourth isn't nearly as bad a having a bunch of overweight, middle-aged useless men sitting in the congregation thinking about when the donut shop closes. At least he's doing something constructive along with a little destructive......and that balances out. Don't you think that God would have us live a balanced Christian life? As far as many of the previous posts about homosexuality, I can personally tell you that our church doesn't believe in removing someone from leadership just because he likes men or boys in "that" way. We believe in restoration, once again, and know that God is a forgiving God, so when a person sins, even a homosexual, as long as they say "God forgive me", they can go on just as though they had done nothing wrong, because according to the Word, "he who cometh to God will in no-wise be cast out". The verse about "He who covereth his sins shall not prosper" is highly overrated....covereth from whom? I confess my sins, lusts, shortcomings, fantasies, and darkest thoughts to my Pastor, who is a representative of Jesus on earth, and in doing so, I am forgiven by Jesus, and don't have to tell anything to my husband or family, as it is all UNDER THE BLOOD. (I heard that in a sermon, although I can't find the exact scripture anywhere) What my husband, or ex-husband, knows or doesn't know won't hurt him, unless I actually contract some disease or virus from my male church friends, if you know what I mean. The Assembly of God has been accused of "double Standards" many times....one set of rules for the ministers and one set for the congregation. Of course, all ministers aren't perfect, yet they have to teach the Word anyway, so the rules they teach have to be the right ones. As for the rules they live by, well......like I said, nobody's perfect. How would you like to be judged for all your past or present sins? Most of my girlfriends, some married, most divorced and remarried (some to pastors) lead exemplary Christian lives publicly, but in private, we can talk about all kinds of stuff! I even went last year to a Strip club to see what it was all about......boy, where do they buy those outfits! Anyway, our church endorses just about any "ministry" that someone wants to start to be able to minister to people in various lifestyles. Strippers for Jesus, God's BadBoy Bikers, CJ PUnkRockErs, all kinds of alternative lifestyles, we like them all in our church. How are we going to reach the world if they hate us? We have to be more appealing in order to attract them, so we duplicate their music, and change the words a little. The old-fashioned idea that Music was made for worship, and that worship belonged only to God is really stupid. When I play soft, sensual ballads, even with Christian lyrics, I can just imagine being caressed by my lover (not my husband), and the lingering smile on my face looks angelic at the least......nobody but me and Jesus ever know. Just in case you think we are too passive, I want you to know that our church does judge, however. If you want to take communion, you have to let the Pastoral Staff know, and we will tell you if your lifestyle or choices preclude you from taking it. You are not coming here to test our spirits, we are supposed to be checking yours, so our pastors are qualified by their ordination papers with the Assemblies of God to tell you whether you are eligible. Some obscure scripture says "Let a Man examine himself......" but it has been my experience with men in general that they are totally incapable of examining themselves, which is why most of them get married. They need us, we don't need them, we only need Jesus. The whole idea of self-examination by a man is absurd.....why do we need couselors and teachers then? Women, however, are much more in tune with the heart of God because we are emotionally developed beings that tap into heart of God with our hearts, not our heads. This is why many of the new Assemblies of God churches are led by women, who don't need a husband the "lead" them.....we just step over his uselesss carcass and go directly to God for our direction. Because our pastor doesn't reveal the sins and misdoings of those still in the church, going through a divorce, even if I was the one to file, doesn't keep me from church leadership here. I am free to counsel other women, (and boy, with some of the stuff their husbands are pulling, believe me, they need it!), lead women's ministries, and even act as an emissary to other churches on our churchs' behalf. As long as I stick with my "story" of abuse, neglect and abandonment, I am a strong woman survivor, and have a hope of attracting another man, this time with a little power and money, hopefully. Anyway, hoped that helped......oh, by the way, Bubba, even good men need spelling correction.... it's not "retarted" it's "retarded".}   arron (arron) New member Username: arron Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.46.251 Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 9:11 pm:        i agree the assemblies are not a cult. i am not a memeber of them but i am holiness and beleive in the things they beleive in, i am a member of THE FULL SALVATION CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD   jbubba (jbubba) New member Username: jbubba Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.174.0.192 Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 3:25 pm:        Sweetsue, Thanks for the excessively long joke. It was a blast to read. I thank for spending that much time to type something so worthless. I really could careless what some people on this site think. I know every church is different. I was trying to prove a point on my last post. But, the only thing I proved was that sweetsue could write a short novel, if we gave her the right topic. Thanks agian, great story, I even enjoyed the "Strippers for Jesus" bit, it was grand. I can't speak for all AG church's, (because i haven't been to every AG church), but the church I attend is far from a cult. You are free to think what ever you want to. You can go to what ever church you want to. If you don't like an AG church, or if you think AG church's are cults, go to a different church, or don't go to church at all. You have the right to choose what ever you want to do! ......oh, by the way, Sweetsue, even good women need spelling correction....it's not "gissip" it's "gossip".   cindig (cindig) New member Username: cindig Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.219.62.118 Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 9:13 pm:        I think there are a few nuts on this board. Bye, I will be more than happy to go elsewhere.   cindig (cindig) New member Username: cindig Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.219.62.118 Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 9:16 pm:        Assembly of God believes in salvation by faith, but it's kept by works. You know, like God puts the down the downpayment and you have to keep up the monthly enstallments. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where anyone was saved more than once.   overseas (overseas) New member Username: overseas Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 7:39 am:        JUST STOP ONE MOMENT AND THINK WHERE YOU ARE, WHO YOU ARE AND TO WHOM YOU SPEAK ON THIS BOARD. It is a disaster to have believers, non-believers, skeptics, un-churched, de-churched etc. speaking each other without consideration to other people background and position. For ex. religious people will go for doctrinary details that are irrelevant to non-believers, while the later ones will make fun of their intra-religious fights. I do not recommend hiding things, but please do something useful for the purpose of this site.   ohwretchedmanthatiam (ohwretchedmanthatiam) New member Username: ohwretchedmanthatiam Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 24.237.120.146 Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 7:11 am:        Who repented the most in the bible? Look it up and you see an awesome event. He who saved us from our entanglement in a sinful world ... The whole volume of the book is about him..Jesus/GOD there is none like him and he sits between the Cheribums. So when a denomination claims to be the assembly of GOD/Jesus I would have to go before Jesus/GOD in his throne to see who and what that assembly is. Nothing evil can enter in there. His glory he will not share, nor give to another. Repentant believers who accepted Jesus/GOD as the propitiation for our sins in this world are permitted to enter in at the straight and narrow gate. All the blasphemous deceptions of worldliness is mere chaff to be burned by what sits between the cheribums, left at the eastern gate in the garden of eden. It is Jesus/GOD himself who holds the winnowing fan of fire in his hand. All of our foolishness, attempts to beguile others, take delight in others sins and wickedness will be burned. What will be left is the gold/silver. Let every man's works be tried by the fire. If we seek Jesus/GOD/Word to live by then we will not be burned. For Jesus/GOD/Word will be what we relied upon and not our selves. He does the works. He makes the propitiation. He convicts us of our wrongs. He leads us to repentance. He gets the glory because I was unable to do so for my self nor any other human he ever created. I'd settle for just one drop of his spirit so when I am thrown in the fire I don't cry out with a tongue on fire for just a drop of his spirit. Without his covering we are all doomed, condemed. For this purpose he came into the world to take away our sins. Be humble before Holiness/Jesus/GOD. None of our ramblings or arguments shall stand. As Job acknowledged before Jesus/GOD...things too full of wonder (i.e. wonderful) for me to consider. Where were you when all (i.e. before satan fell) the angels and son's of GOD came before the LORD and sang for joy? Between the Apostles we don't see much division into separate denominations or divers doctrines, etc. How many of our postings lead us to ...hast thou considered... thy servant .... Jesus. He is the example to look to for an example of what it is to be a son of GOD. Wash each other's feet, put away the filth of sin, repent unless we all perish amidst all our foolishness. Jesus/GOD Bless those who find the straight and narrow gate. KJ Rom 7:24   tomh777 (tomh777) New member Username: tomh777 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.229.150.169 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 3:07 pm:        Regarding "Is The Assemblies of God a Cult?"; Technically speaking, from a doctrinal perspective the A/G is not a cult. However, as a former A/G pastor, I can tell you that some A/G churches have cult like tendencies. Many A/G churches in the USA are adopting the Latter Rain Heresy(aka Montanism, aka "the new apostolic/prophetic movement"). Furthermore because each A/G church is autonomous there is very little accountability and consequently some of them drift into error. Also, many A/G pastors are very poorly trained via a correspondence course called Berean School of the Bible and as a result while believing that they are "biblical" they do a poor job of "rightly dividing the Word of Truth. This combined with an over emphasis on experientialism has lead to some A/G churches adopting false doctrines. I was an associate pastor of an A/G church for several years. The senior pastor got into latter rain theology. He also has a wife and another layperson in the church, that would open business meetings with highly manipulative prayers such as, "Dear God silence anyone who would disagree with the pastor (?!?!?!?). Was that A/G church a cult?...YOU BETCHA!!! However, the leaders at the General Council and District levels of the A/G are by and large Godly men and women that just want to see the work of the Lord go forth many of whom are greatly distressed by the herectical and cult like tendencies in some A/G churches.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 4:57 pm:        It would be nice to hear from the A/G General Council on some of these Latter Rain movements that are gaining popularity in A/G churches. It is much needed.   tomh777 (tomh777) New member Username: tomh777 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.2.148.133 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 5:15 pm:        Regarding General Council and the Latter Rain Movement: A couple of years ago I contacted the office and the General Superintendent of the A/G (Tom Trask). I talked with Trask's secretary and she said that they were "very alarmed" about the latter rain movement/apostolic prophetic movement. However she also said, "We're not the Pope...as long as a church ascribes to the 16 Fundamentals of the A/G they can be an A/G church." Rumor has it that Tom Trask's son has gone apostolic/prophetic (an unsubstantiated rumor). Supposedly, the A/G is allowing for some of their churches to become apostolic/prophetic but is keeping a close eye on them...What a bummer!! I think that I'm seeing the denomination I knew and loved become apostate!!   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 5:21 pm:        Maybe they "fed the monster" with there DECADE OF HARVEST, 1990-2000.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 137 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 6:58 pm:        I grew up in the Assemblies of God church. When they first began as an organization they used to teach Identity. http://www.truthinhistory.org/Parham.htm http://www.covenantchurchofyahweh.com http://christiansbiblestudy.org/   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 7:36 pm:        I know there is nothing the A/G can do because Chrurches are soverign and the fundamentals truths would need to be violeated for them to take action, But it would be nice if we heard something in a sermon or a letter confronting these extra-biblical and anti-biblical ideas. For example they can start with G12.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 140 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:33 am:        I grew up in A/G. We have a plethora of “New Testament Christians” around the world who understand very little about the Bible, especially as a whole. They can quote John 3:16 and tell you that because they “believe” this they are “saved.” They base their faith on “whatsoever saith the word of their preacher.” They will have a handful of scriptures to quote at various times but if you ask them the meaning behind them, they often will just once again quote what their preacher, pastor of priest said it means. Few study and know what the New Covenant is, why it is, and what it means to them. They will say, “The only thing that matters now is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” (Quoting from Paul as if they really understood what he meant by that statement to begin with). Using this type of verse to explain why they need not study to find out what His plan really is and who His plan, promises and covenants are for. They act like the whole plan of Yahweh and how he has dealt with His people throughout the ages is of no importance now and we can explain it all by referring to the back of some inept “gospel” tract. This is not to say that “salvation” is complicated but just one of the most understood concepts of all time because it is taught in churches that it is something that you pray for an instantaneously you have what is called “salvation” and you are now “saved.” Salvation is NOT reciting some magical prayer in which you all of a sudden become a “child of God” through some spiritual transformation and then running around talking about how you have been “born again.” If anyone could say they had this type of experience I could. I personally had a major change take place in my life when I was 18 years old after having surrendered my will to Yahweh and repented of my sin and began to look to Him. My life dramatically changed because He made Himself real to me. But that did not automatically give me a head full of knowledge about the Bible and an instant understanding of what it means to really know Him and live for Him. That experience was not the completion of the work of Yahweh in my life but the beginning. We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Salvation is not some immediate “thing” that we receive from a simple prayer. This method of introducing the gospel to people, having them pray the “prayer of salvation” and then join the church and pay their tithe is the premise in which the false religion of Judeo-Christianity has been established. Now, we have today, mountains of evidence that prove the White, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Germanic people are True Israel. Many false prophets and ignorant preachers today try to say that the New Testament does away with Israel and that Yahweh’s promises and prophesies for Israel are now null and void. They teach that Yahweh changed His mind and started a whole new religion that envelopes all people and all races. Well, let’s consider a few verses of scripture and see what the Bible says concerning Israel in the New Testament. I would first like to say before I begin to quote from a book that it is important to know who this “book” was written to. The “books” that Paul wrote were really not books at all, they were letters and these letters were to specific people. For example, when Paul wrote the letter in which the translators entitled the ‘Book of Romans” he was writing to the Saints who were in Rome at that time, not to everyone who lived in Rome at that time. These were personal letters written in a personal manner. For us to say that these letters were written to and applied to everyone in the entire world would make no more sense than saying when you write a letter to your mother, father, sister or brother that they also would apply to the whole world. We find who the “Book of Romans” was addressed to in Romans 1:7 “To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Paul says to the saints in Rome at that time, “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew...” (Romans 11:1,2) If heritage is not important as some say, then why does Paul specifically state who he is and give account of his ancestry? Who does he call God’s people here? Israelites, sons and daughters of Jacob/Israel. Yes even in the “New Testament” God’s people are STILL Israel. He teaches in this letter that even though Yahweh had placed blindness upon Israel and they were lost without Yahweh in times past that we have now been given a Saviour who would reconcile us back to Him. Why did we need a “New” Covenant? The word “Testament” has been translated from the Greek word which means Covenant. A “Testament” is only good when the Testator dies. A Testator is a person who dies leaving a Will or Testament in force. Looking at this form of the definition of Testament as an act which a person determined the disposition of his property after death, we could rightly refer to the Old Covenant as the Old “Testament.” However, the New “Testament” would be more correctly termed the ‘New Covenant.” The only way we could say it is a “Testament” is if we were to look at it as a “Testimony” from those who wrote about things they saw or experienced. Having said that. We must go back in time to understand what happened to Israel and why we needed another covenant. Yahweh was married to Israel but because of our continual disobedience and adultery He divorced Israel in 721 BC. And we were taken into captivity by Assyria. I would also like to add here that Assyrians were the same hooked nose people who were descended from Cain. Jeremiah 3:8 “ And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.” In order for us to be reconciled back to Yahweh (the husband) something had to take place. We know according to the Law in order for a wife to be re-married the husband had to die. Most “Christians” today cannot even tell you why Christ had to die. They will say that He died in order for forgive our sins. Well, the Bible states that “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins” but it does not necessarily say that anyone or anything has to die. This is a missing key in the complete understanding of why Christ died. Paul explains this in detail in Romans 7:1,2 “Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.” Yahweh will not violate His own Law. He had to die that we as Israel may be married to Him once again. Who did He die for in order to make a New Covenant? Hebrews 8:8 “….Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” Once again, ISRAEL, same race, same people. Who did Christ come for? Matt. 15:24 “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Who’s sin did He come to forgive? Matt. 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. You say, “Well ALL people need to be saved.” My question to you is, “Saved from what?” The only people who can sin against His Law are the people in whom the Law was given. Ps. 147:19 “He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.” No one else was ever given His commandments and Laws outside of Israel. The New “Testament” as well as the Old Testament were written to, for and about Israel. No where in the New Testament did any apostle, prophet, disciple, or even Yahshua go to any other race than Israel. When He sent His disciples out he told them precisely who to go to, once again, ISRAEL. Matt. 10:5 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.” He sent them forth to preach the gospel that He preached, the gospel of the kingdom and that is what we should be preaching today. Yahshua did not go around preaching “Himself and Himself crucified.” He preached the gospel of the kingdom. And that kingdom being established on this earth is what we await. We look forward to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. We look forward to Israel being remarried unto Yahweh. We are now dwell in a grace period awaiting His return. We are NOT awaiting some “rapture” where we will be zapped from the earth. He did not say thy kingdom “went” but rather pray thy Kingdom come! We are told that we are to occupy until He comes. We need to occupy ourselves with learning His Laws and preaching the gospel to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, the family of His chosen People. Pastor Trent Woodard Covenant Church of Yahweh   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 12:24 pm:        Does your Bible have these verses? Ac 10:45 - Show Context And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Ac 11:1 - And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 1:07 pm:        And your point is? If you are referring to the word GENTILE used in these passages and having any contradiction to what I posted previously maybe we need to define this word according to the Bible: GENTILE is the word "Goy" in Hebrew and "Ethnos" in Greek. ALL BIBLES do not always translate it as Gentile nor is it most proper. It is most properly TRIBE, PEOPLE, NATION or RACE which you will also see after reading how the word is used and translated throughout the entire BIBLE. You'll also see that it doesn't mean a Non-Israelite but is speaking ONLY of an Israelite unless specified otherwise. The Hebrew word Goy is a collective noun meaning nation or sometimes a collective body of people. But it has been translated into English many different ways. The word occurs 557 times in the Old Testament. The Authorized Version of the Bible translates it gentile 30 times; heathen 142 times; nation 373 times; people 11 times; another once. But the American Standard Revised Version cuts the occurrence of gentile from 30 to 9 times, and then shows in the footnotes of 5 of those 9 times that the word nations should have been used. Notice Abraham's CHOSEN OFFSPRING ISRAEL is called "Goy/Nation and Nation(s)" (Gen. 12:2; Gen. 17:4-6; Gen 17:16; Gen 18:18; Gen 22:18; Gen 25:23; Gen 35:11; Gen 48:19; Jer. 31:36 Luke 7:5; John 11:48; John 11:50; Acts 24:2; Acts 24:17). If you read those verses you will see very clearly these are ONLY ISRAELITES. THE ISRAELITES, THE GOY/ETHNOS, THE CHOSEN TRIBES which the whole book deals with cover to cover, the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Romans 9:4-5 "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the worship, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." 5/7ths of prophecy deals only with the House of Israel and not with the House of Judah as you'll read further on. The Greek word Ethnos occurs 164 times in the New Testament. In the Authorized Version it is translated gentiles 93 times; heathen 5 times, nation or nations 64 times; and people twice. In the American Standard Revised Version it is gentiles 96 times in the text and 7 times in the footnotes, making 103 occurrences altogether. But in the footnotes it is corrected 15 times to read nations, making the final count 88. So not only the Hebrew word goy but also the Greek word ethnos has been translated to read nations more than any other word. Remember Israel is A MULTITUDE OF MIGHTY NATION(S) as prophecy clearly states in Gen. 49 and the scriptures listed earlier in this article. Please do read these BIBLE scriptures for yourself. Then you may also want to read how Christ said He was only sent to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel and told His followers to keep away from Other Peoples (other ethnos) JESUS CHRIST SAYS in Matt 10:6 & 15:24. Acts 26:7, James 1:1 and many others show that all Twelve Tribes of Israel were Christians. The ONLY Christians dating back past the 1700s were White Western European Nations (NOT THIRD-WORLD NATIONS WHATSOEVER). Just as the bible prophesied Israel would have Islands that are NORTH WEST, A FAR OFF (Isa. 49:1-3,12; 60:9; Jer. 3:18,31:8). *What Islands are North-West A Far Off from Israel? Ireland was called Hibernia, which basically means, land of the Hebrews. Scotland's Declaration of Independence "Declaration of Abroath" Declares they are Israel, listing the path they migrated from out of Jerusalem. As it was written very shortly after William Wallace I'm sure you'll understand why he and their nation fought so hard. Every Bible Encyclopedia will tell you "Estimated 15 Million Israelites strangely disappeared" but what they don't tell you is they disappeared exactly where and when 15 Million Anglo-Saxons also appeared in 700 BC at the Caucasus Mountains near the Black Sea, which is what all of secular history tells us. Most people don't put 1 and 1 together. The Anglo Saxons also strangely were the only other people in the world who had the same government as Israel. They have specific **END TIME PROPHECIES** specifically dealing with each of 12 tribes as individual Mighty Nations such as Genesis 49 which few Pastors or Jews will ever discuss. (Remember the word Jew *in the bible* is ONLY ONE TRIBE, and The House of Judah also consists of the tribes of Levi and Benjamin). The tribe of Judah came OUT of Israel "Jaccob" and they are not Israel(The bible mentions The house of Judah and the House of Israel are two separate houses. Jer. 33:7; Jer. 33:14;) The other 11 Tribes are ISRAEL. Since biblical times much of Judah has mixed so many aren't even Related to Judah any longer. The BIBLE says the other NON-JEWISH 11 Tribes of Israel are MIGHTY NATIONS. THE CHOSEN PEOPLE ARE A MULTITUDE OF MIGHTY NATIONS! THAT IS THE BIBLICAL WAY TO IDENTIFY GOD'S PEOPLE as we read in Genesis 17:4-6 "Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come forth from you." Genesis 17:16 "I will bless her, and moreover I will give you a son by her; I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall come from her." Genesis 18:18 "Seeing that Abraham shall become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall **bless themselves by him?***" Genesis 22:18 "and by your descendants ***shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves****, because you have obeyed my voice." Who are the people that have foreigners come and HELP THEMSELVES, or BLESS THEMSELVES from? Millions of Immigrants from the third world flood into all the European White nations every year to *BLESS THEMSELVES* and help themselves to the abundance we *Abraham's Seedline* have made. Genesis 25:23 "And THE LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger." JACCOB/ISRAEL Blessing Ephraim and Manasseh (2 non-Judaic Tribes): Genesis 48:19 "And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations." Jer. 31:35 Thus saith THE LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; THE LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith THE LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever." ONLY ONE PEOPLE FULFILLS THOSE PROPHECIES. The dynamic inventers, builders, explorers, the blessors of all nations NOW and throughout all history. The ones God DNA Coded to produce the locomotive, channel electricity, build the automobile, aircraft, space shuttles, the light bulb, the atomic bomb, and countless other inventions as scripture calls these HIS COLONIZERS SPREADING ABROAD (Gen 28:14; 49:22; Deut 32:8; 33:17; Psa 2:8; Isa26:15; 27:6; 54:2; Zech. 10:8,9). The word Hebrew means Colonizer and that they do well. They're promised to ALWAYS have someone of the seedline of David on the throne: 2Chronicles 6:16 "Now therefore, O THE LORD GOD of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me." 500 years before Christ there failed a man to be on the throne in Palestine since Zedekiah was killed and Jerusalem overtaken. You do not see any Kings ruling over Jews today now do you? YAHWEH said in MANY places in the bible He PROMISES that in every generation a descendant of King David will be seated on David's Throne. If you're saying the Jews are Israel you are calling YAHWEH a liar, they haven't had a king in over 2500 years. Jeremiah's dated grave remains in Ireland to this day as He did fulfill the promise to Trans-Plant the Kingdom (Jer. 1:10; Jer. 18:9; Jer. 24:6) Ireland, Scotland, and England also trace the Coronation Stone as being David's Throne which Jeremiah brought over. Israel has a perpetual monarchy as we read in Psalm 132:11 "THE LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. Psalm 89:34 "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah." Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of THE LORD of hosts will perform this." While David's Kingdom was flourishing at it's peak he was promised he'd get a NEW LAND as we read in 1 Chr 17:9 "Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning," 2 Sam 7:10 " Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime," David's Flourishing Kingdom was out-growing that small sandbox in Palestine. Moses said the Israelite populace was as huge as the stars of heaven in his day (Deut. 1:11). Most experts say Israel was somewhere between 3 and 6 Million strong at that time. 15 Million in the days of King David is not far fetched. What the Anti-CHRISTian Television, Movies, Media, Universities, Churches, and other avenues which also fully submit to the Financial, Political, and Economic Power of the Beast who waging war against the Christian Familiy and Culture in those avenues putting out FULL BLOWN IDIOTIC LIES compared to THE BIBLE, well confirmed EVIDENCE, well documented historical facts, truth, historical church teachings, and what THOUSANDS OF MAINSTREAM PASTORS OUR OF EVERY DENOMINATION WORLD WIDE says. There are over 1,500 book titles on the subject of confirming Israel Historically and Biblically with the Anglo Saxon World. Even the Jewish encyclopedias, as well as countless Orthodox Non-Christian Jews confirm this about the Ancient Israelites so you cannot call any of this data Anti-Semitic. The great Jewish Historian of the First Century Josephus recorded the mass Edomite conversion to Babylonian talmudic Judaism showing WHO is out there today LYING calling themselves Judah/Jews when they are NOT as Revelation. 2:9 and 3:9 declares. We do not claim to be of Judah or Jews, but of Israel as scripture distinguishes the difference all the way through and never uses Jew/Judah interchangeably with the House of Israel in scripture (see Hebrews 8:8). You can look up even in Jewish Encyclopedias and Other Jewish Publications here that show that all those in the land of Israel calling themselves Jews are almost 100% Non-Semitic peoples. The best Jewish Anthropologists dug up the old graves and measured their skulls confirming. They will also tell you that they are mostly Khazaric which is totally Non-Semitic, right there in their own encyclopedias! They show that the skull and nose is the best identifier of a given race and that all the Semitic skulls are in Europe and U.S.A known as Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Teutonic, Celtic and Kindred Peoples. We have not exhausted even a portion of the the multitude of material supporting this subject. We encourage you to further research it. 1Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject you," Matt 7:13-15 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Whole libraries are out there and widely available on every issue in every avenue of what's been brought into your hands this day. John 8:31 "If you continue in my word you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 1:11 pm:        Gentile is the word "Ethnos" in Greek: meaning "CHOSEN RACE" or Ethnicity/"RACE"/Tribe/Kindred Genealogy The Greek word Ethnos occurs 164 times in the New Testament. In the Authorized Version it is translated gentiles 93 times; heathen 5 times, nation or nations 64 times; and people twice. In the American Standard Revised Version it is gentiles 96 times in the text and 7 times in the footnotes, making 103 occurrences altogether. But in the footnotes it is corrected 15 times to read nations, making the final count 88. In context you can see it as only meaning Race. Even the Jews called the tribe Judah "the ethnos" as well as you read in (Luke 7:5; John 11:48; John 11:50; Acts 24:2; Acts 24:17). We see the commonly believed word Gentile is a myth. They should have just left it "race" or "chosen race". Remember Israel is A MULTITUDE OF MIGHTY NATION(S) FOR EVER, and are 12 Tribes, not just one tribe Judah. Notice the bible speaks specifically that the literal flesh of Abraham is called the "ethnos" or "goyim" in Hebrew. (Gen. 12:2; Gen. 17:4-6; Gen 17:16; Gen 18:18; Gen 22:18; Gen 25:23; Gen 35:11; Gen 48:19; Jer. 31:36) The original American founders believed they were the race of the 12 tribes of Israel and that this was the new Israel the bible speaks of. Jew is 1 tribe; both sides, and all sides admit this, while the bible says Israel is 12 tribes, the jew tries and claims to be the 1 tribe Judah, just look it up. Even then Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 says they're a BLASPHEMOUS counterfeit to the race of the tribe of Judah. The word Jew only shows up 30 times in the entire old testament scripture. See any bible encyclopedia, Jew means 1 tribe, the tribe of Judah, while there are 12 other tribes of Israel that are not Judah See (heb. 8:8 Jer. 31:31, they're still separate even in the future world to come.) Scripture says we "ISRAEL" are a multitude of mighty nations who are "north west" and have Islands that were multitudes of mighty nations North West from Israel (Isa. 49:1-3,12; 60:9; Jer. 3:18,31:8). Any one can look on a map and see which Islands are a multitude of Mighty nations that bless all other nations, and are North West from Israel. Could it be the British Isles and their kindred/ethnos? With all the important genealogies in the bible and in Saxon history could it only be this one people? Ireland was called Hibernia, which basically means, land of the Hebrews. Scotland's Declaration of Independence, "The Declaration of Abroath", declares they are Israel. It lists the path they migrated out from Jerusalem. This legal document was created as a direct result of Wallace and Robert the Bruce's achievements. I'm sure you'll understand why he and their nation fought so hard. See http://celtsroots.com/scottishd.htm. You can also find complete copies online if you look for it. Romans 9:4-5 reads, "the ADOPTION pertains to Israel... and for their FLESH Christ came" Matt 10:6 reads, "go not to the other ETHNICITIES but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and Matt 15:24 reads, "I'm not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." "For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out." Ezekiel 34:11 Christ came "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of Sons (Galations 4:5) Moreover, the Divine Record declares, "for where no law is, there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15). Jesus only came to redeem them that were under the law (Galations 4:5) The law pertained to Israel and NO ONE ELSE AS WE READ in Psalm 147:19-20): "He shewith his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments to Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." For additional scriptural proofs, see Psalm 78:5, Psalm 103:7, Isaiah 51:7, and Exodus chapters 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24. The law, as confirmed by St. Paul in Romans 9:4 was exclusive to Israel. The prophet Hosea records the 10 tribes of Israel were divorced. In Jeremiah 3:8 it says Israel was both put away and recieved a bill of divorce. Israel was then RECONCILED in Christ. See Hosea 2:16, Hosea 2:20, Hosea 3:5, Isa 54:5-8, Isa 62:4-5, Jeremiah 3:12; & Jeremiah 14. The clear message of the prophets is that YAHWEH would be fully reconciled to His bride and that a future marriage would be effected: For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. - Luke 19:10 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. - Acts 2:36 The bible declares the law to be LIBERTY (Psalms 119:44-45) it is for the highest pleasures and successes and spiritual freedom to express ourselves to the fullest. We're not under it, but we know right from wrong by it. The creator/manufacturer always knows how the parts work best since they designed them. It's the same thing with God's law. The ethnic purity in worship and social events is an imperative bible mandate demonstrated over 200 times in Scripture, King James Version and mostly New Testament ( If you want a listing of verses go here: http://christiansbiblestudy.org/repent777.htm DEMANDING RACIAL SEGREGATION) as more than urgent for our bare survival upon the land. Of course we cannot avoid the workplace as of now and that is acceptable as the curse is upon the land for our nations disobedience but we are to have RESPECT for all God's GOOD CREATURES. So we must separate ourselves in our social and spiritual life. We must move to a rural area where there are those of the same ethnic faith "Christianity". God said all the races He created before Adam were GOOD in Genesis 1, and that He created each after their own Kind, and it says over 10 times in Genesis 1 "kind after His own Kind". DNA has never been reported to mutate, and the DNA between a black and a white is over 2% different from head to toe in such great varying differences. All the races are distinct and unique; they differ from each other in every respect: body, soul, and spirit. Each of these races bears the mark of divine origin and ownership. Our Creator God placed His unite mark of ownership on every distinctive race on His earth. The primary races (the Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucasian) are the three distinctive races. All other sub-races derive their origin from the various mixtures resulting from mixing over time. The unique differences in skin color, bone structure, cranial development, brain size (weight and convolutions), blood composition, hair composition, eye color and shape, and a multitude of others are part of the mark of ownership God placed on every distinctive race. We can rightly call all these unique differences original design. The only means by which this original design of the Creator can forever remain in place is for the distinctive races to mate within their own kind. The original design of the Creator God is threatened through any for of interracial mixing, mating, or cohabitation. Miscegenation poses a clear and present danger to the original design of God. Every intrusion into the ethnic purity of the separate and distinct races through miscegenation seeks to efface and destroy what God purposed in the original design. The best and unique design in every race is destroyed through miscegenation. Not only does miscegenation strike out at the created design of God, it also brings the unique and special quality of every race into ruin. The Creator God locked up in the genes of every race the blue print or schematic design purposed for every race to perpetuate throughout all generations. Miscegenation scrambles the genes and destroys all that God created beautiful in every race. Each of these separate races is an integral part of God's creation; all were given a unique place to fill in God's blueprint for this earth. Each race can know the creator and worship Him in a way that is different from the other. Each race has a unique destiny to fulfill in the purpose of the Creator. Every race is a reflection of the create genius of the Creator and special for the purpose for which they were created. In order to preserve His mark of ownership on each of the distinctively created races, God has purposed for them to remain segregated in time and history. The creator allotted a portion of the earth matched the climate and environmental needs of original design for every race: the temperate zones of Africa for the Negroid, the great expanses of Asia for the Mongoloid, and the northern temperate zones of Europe and North America for the Caucasians. There the creator purposed for each race to remain and fulfill their divinely ordained mission. Only one nation within the Caucasians named Israel has been selected to be God's chosen priest and minister as a servant race to the rest of the world. We have given Africans an education and should work with African governments to save Africa by returning them home to their native land and restore it the way God would have done. You now stand at the precipice of life's greatest moments. You have found salvation through Jesus Christ, the Eternal Son of God. Are you now ready to open the pages of His word and understand who you are, where you came from, why you are on this earth, and the rock from which you were hewn? You are not just anyone born into this world. Those who come from a branch of the great family of people commonly called Caucasian, desperately need to know their heritage. Your spiritual roots run much deeper than you ever though. The great family of peoples called the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Danish, Swedish, French, Dutch, German, Finnish, and other kindred people form the Caucasian race that explored, settled, and developed the nations of the Christian West. Since you are a Christian, called out of darkness of Satan's Kingdom, the reign of sin, the power of evil, and translated into the glorious liberty of Jesus Christ, the kingdom of light, and the reign of righteousness, you will move forward in the truth and knowledge of your God. Millions of Christian people have parked themselves in a particular spiritual "comfort zone, content to spend the remainder of their mortal lives marking time, rocking life away in a spiritual rocking chair, getting nowhere. May this word given to you today by a Sovereign God through His ministers and servants awaken your inner man to the truth of His Word. It may be that your day has come. Is this the day for your eyes to be opened to the truth of the Bible? Can you be sure that it was not Divine Providence that we met? Has a moment of truth now arrived in your life? Are you about to be shaken loose from your religious chains and set free in Jesus Christ? These truths could be your spiritual Mt. St. Helens. God says our race would always bless all nations. Only one "ethnicity" sends billions of dollars in aide to hundreds of countries. The dynamic inventers, builders, explorers, the blesses of all nations NOW and throughout all history. The ones God DNA Coded to produce the locomotive, channel electricity, build the automobile, aircraft, space shuttles, the light bulb, the atomic bomb, and countless other inventions as scripture calls these HIS COLONIZERS SPREADING ABROAD (Gen 28:14; 49:22; Deut 32:8; 33:17; Psa 2:8; Isa26:15; 27:6; 54:2; Zech. 10:8,9). The word Hebrew means Colonizer and that they do well. Why would anyone want to erase and destroy this ethnicity? The only people with compassion to go fight and die for strangers, to give their money and resources, to send missionaries to every corner of the world. Who would want us dead and program everyone that the only heritage you are supposed to hate is the white heritage? Who would want everyone to hate the Aryan Ethnic culture and heritage? Who is the most hated Ethnicity? Is it the Aryan Ethnicity? Does the bible say we'd be persecuted? We currently have 500 + books in stock that you can read written solely on the subject of Israel being the Caucasian Christian Nations. See http://www.CeltsRoots.com and www.ocassemblyofChrist.org. These books are so hard to find from the general mainstream. I hope you take advantage of this very rare find and show your support to keep it online. The world is in the time of the great falling away, and the general churches through homosexuality and race mixing have jumped off a cliff. Now that the main stream has become Sodom and Gomorrah I hope they get out quick!   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 2:40 pm:        Ac 10:45 - And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Are you saying in this verse Gentiles means "NOn-Circumcised Jews"?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 153 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 3:00 pm:        "Gentile" has nothing to do with racial jews at all. The circumcision was a token, a sign. Moses was no "Jew" no more than Yahshua (Jesus) was.. None of our Israelitish people were ever termed racial jews nor vice-versa. JESUS WAS NOT A JEW Benjamin H. Freedman, Jewish Historian - Researcher - Scholar. From "Common Sense", p. 2-1-53 and 5-1-59 "Christians have beed duped by the unholiest hoax in all history, by so-called Jews. This is considered their most effective weapon." "This 'big lie' technique is brainwashing United States Christians into believing that Jesus Christ was "King of the Jews", in the sense that so-called 'Jews' today call themselves 'Jews'. This reference was first made in English translations of the Old and New Testaments, centuries before the so-called Jews highjacked the word 'Jew' in the 18th A.D. century to palm themselves off on the Christian world as having a kinship with Jesus Christ. This alleged kinship comes from the myth of their common ancestry with the so-called 'Jews' of the Holy Land in the Old Testament history, a fiction based on fable." "American Christians little suspect they are being brainwashed twenty-four hours of every day over television and radio, by newspapers and magazines, by motion pictures and plays, by books, by political leaders in office and seeking office, by religious leaders in their pulpits and outside their churches, by leaders in the field of education inside and outside their cirricular activities, and by all leaders in business, professions and finance, whose economic security demands that they curry the favor of so-called "Jews" of historic Khazar ancestry. Unsuspecting Christians are subjected to this barrage from sources they have little reason to suspect. Incontestable facts supply the unchallengeable proof of the historic accuracy that so-called "Jews" throughout the world today of eastern European origin are unquestionably the historic descendants of the Khazars, a pagan Turko-Finn ancient Mongoloid nation deep in the heart of Asia, according to history, who battled their way in bloody wars about the 1st century B.C. into eastern Europe where they set up their Khazar kingdom. For some mysterious reason the history of the Khazar kingdom is conspicuous by its absence from history courses in the schools and colleges. "The historic existence of the Khazar kingdom of so-called "Jews", their rise and fall, the permanent disappearance of the Khazar kingdom as a nation from the map of Europe, and how King Bulan and the Khazar nation in about 740 A.D. became so-called "Jews" by conversion, were concealed from American Christians by censorship imposed by so-called "Jews", of historic Khazar ancestry, upon all U.S.A. media of mass communications directed by them. Then in 1945 this author gave nation-wide publicity to his many years intensive research into the "facts of life" concerning Khazars. The disclosures were sensational and very effective but apparently angered so-called "Jews" who have continued to vent their spleen upon this author since then solely for that reason. Since 1946 they have conducted a vicious smear campaign against him, seeking thus to further conceal these facts, for obvious reasons. What have they to fear from the truth? "In an original 1903 edition of the Jewish Encyclopedia in New York's Public Library, and in the Library of Congress, Volume IV, pages 1 to 5 inclusive, appears a most comprehensive history of the Khazars. Also in the New York Public Library are 327 books by the world's greatest historians and other sources of reference, in addition to the Jewish Encyclopedia, dealing with Khazar history, and written between the 3rd A.D. and 20th centuries by contemporaries of the Khazars and by modern historians on that subject." Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew. During His lifetime, no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere. That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars. In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew". The term originated in the late eighteenth century as an abbreviation of the term Judean and refers to a resident of Judea without regard to race or religion, just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas. In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same. Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers". WHO WAS THE FIRST JEW ? John Standring We know that Saul was the first king of Israel and that John was the first man called Baptist, but who was the first Jew? Neither Adam, Seth or Noah are called Jew. Nor were Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. Moses was not called a Jew and neither were Saul, David or Solomon called jew. In fact you will not find the word Jew in the first eleven books of the Bible. The first time Jews are mentioned in the Bible, is in 2nd Kings 16:6 (and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) where we find Israel was at war with the Jews and drove the Jews from Elath. Isn't it interesting that we can read over five hundred pages of the Bible before we find a Jew anywhere, yet those who call themselves Jew today claim the first five books of the bible and call it their Torah. Do you not find it very strange that those who claim to have written the first five books of the Bible and call themselves Jew, can't find the word Jew written in the book anywhere, they call their own bible and claim to have written? Jesus Christ tells John in Revelation 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN". We know that God changed the name of Abram to Abraham, Gen. 17:5 and that God changed the name of Jacob to Israel Gen. 32:28, but no where in the Bible do we find where God changed the name of Israel to Jew! There is therefore no authority by which those who say they are Jews can claim to be Israel! By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into Ioudaios and Iudaeus meaning a Judean or person living in Judea. The original King James version of the Bible, 1611, translated Idumaean-Judean into Iewes. It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word Jew appeared. The word Jew does not mean Israel or Israelite! We must conclude therefore that the first "Jews" were Canaanite-Edomite-Hittite. It is certain, according to the Bible, that Jews are not Israel.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 3:48 pm:        so who are the Jews and who is Jesus and what is he?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 154 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 4:25 pm:        The translators have done us a great dis-service by translating the words ethnic and Judean, etc. etc. as GENTILE and JEW. It has created a lot of confusion and allowed false teaching to prevail because I was taught and probably you as well were always told that Gentile meant "non-jew". That may be what it means to us in English today but not what the Bible says. Yahshua (Jesus) was/is the "Son" of God and son of Adam. The Bible calles Him the "second Adam". The blood line was kept pure from Adam, all the way to David all the way to Christ. They are of the same heritage as the modern day Israelites which are the White, Anglo-Saxon, Scandanavian, Germanic, Celtic peoples. We are Isaac's Sons, Sacc Sons, Saxons. This is where the word Saxon comes from, Isaac Sons. The promises and covenants were passed down through Jacob/Israel. That is why we are "Israelites" today but that name Yahweh said would become a curse to us, as it has. Now we are known as "Christians" literally, Christ's sons. He is our kindred redeemer. Kindred means kin. We are the literal family of God by heritage, not some super-spiritual idea. You cannot spiritualize everything in the Bible. It is a history of Adam's race. (Gen. 5:1) The Jews (Literal racial jews like the ones in the "State" of "Israel" are descendants of Cain (who was NOT adam's son) but a literal offspring of Lucifer. (Gen. 3:15) No denying in this scripture that the Serpent had a literal offspring. They are impostors. Read John Ch. 8. Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Re 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.   tomh777 (tomh777) New member Username: tomh777 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.2.148.190 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 8:45 pm:        Now wait a minute. I thought we were talking abou the A/G. White Supremist and Christian Identity stuff goes on another message board. However, I must ask this question...Most scientists believe that the first humans were from Africa. Most theologians believe that the Garden of Eden was in Africa. That being the case, if Adam really was a caucasian...boy oh boy...he must have used an awful lot of sunscreen!!?!?!??!   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 8:53 pm:        Yes we are off topic don;t know how it happened but to be honest I have become fascinated by our friends presentation, however I have missed his true point but would like to hear it soon my mind is spinning.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 156 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 9:19 pm:        Thanks onlythetruth, I appreciate your interest. I don't think it is "off" topic at all after all we are talking about the TRUE "Assembly of God" now, and not just the denomination which has taken the concept and title and used it to their own liking. LOL, I must admit when I began to study things of history and see how they lined up with scripture my mind was "spinning" as well. I was for the majority of my life, what I like to call a "mushroom"....I was grown in the dark and fed lots of crap. Now, it is alright with tomh777 I would like to continue to talk about the Bible within a forum that is concerning Christianity without feeling like I have done something wrong by speaking about scripture. There are a few teachings among most Christian churches AG included (threw that in to validate talking in this thread LOL) one, being that All races originated from Adam (not true). That Eve ate a literal piece of fruit from a literal tree (not true) and that the flood of Noah was worldwide. (not true). If we do not understand the foundational truths of the Bible we can hardly expect to understand the rest of it. We do not begin reading any other book from the middle, why should we treat the Bible any different way? Now let me diffuse yet another false teaching which has made many a smart man to deny the faith because of nursery rhyme teachings of so called ministers. The flood was NOT world-wide. This is one of my favorite subjects that is taught by mainstream "Christianity" that does not hold water, no pun intended. Among the many mistaken and unScriptural notions commonly taught in nearly all churches is the idea that the "flood", mentioned in the Bible, covered all the earth and drowned everybody on earth excepting only Noah and his family who escaped death by being in the Ark. Some churches have firmly insisted that the Bible says this, when there is ample proof that the "flood" was not world wide. With this teaching the churches have destroyed the faith of multitudes of people in the Bible. They have made atheists or agnostics out of hundreds of thousands of people who might have become Christians if they had only been taught the truth about the Bible. Part of this mistaken idea about the "flood" is due to the many mistranslations found in the commonly used King James version of the Bible. Also, part of it appears plainly to be false if you merely carefully read even the King James version. Let's have a look at it. In Genesis chapter 6, we read that God found the people so corrupt that He regretted that He had ever created them, so He decided to wipe them out by a flood. He warned righteous Noah of the coming flood and told Noah to build a great boat, or ark, in which he and his family might find safety and where they might preserve a few of each kind of the animals from that area. In Chapter 7, it tells how Noah received the final warning that the time was now at hand and he should move into the art. Then it says, according to the King James version, "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth 40 days and 40 nights. And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered. 15 cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl and of cattle, and of beast and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; and every man. And the waters prevailed upon the earth 150 days. And God remembered Noah and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark; and God made a wind to pass over the earth and the water assuaged. And the waters returned from off the earth continually and after the end of the 150 days the waters were abated. And the ark rested, in the 7th month, on the 17th day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the 10th month; in the 10th month, on the 1st day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen." Now, first let us see what the translators have done to what Moses originally wrote. You remember that the King James version says that the rain was upon "the earth" and the waters increased greatly upon "the earth": and that "all flesh died that moved upon the earth"? Definitely not! Remember that in Genesis 4:14, when God has driven Cain away in punishment for his murder of Abel, the King James version quotes Cain as saying, "Behold, Thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." So what did Cain do, climb into his rocket ship and take off for outer space? Of course not!! He was not driven from the face of "the earth", and he never said so, only the translators said so. The word Cain used was "ad-aw-maw" meaning "the ground": God had told him that his farming would no longer be successful, so Cain said "Thou hast driven me off of the ground." (You have probably noticed that Cain's descendants today are not farmers. They run pawnshop and other money lending institutions.) When we come to Genesis 7, where it is talking about the "flood", wherever it says that the flood covered "the earth", the Hebrew word used in the original writing by Moses was "eh-rats", meaning "the land". The flood did cover the particular land where it occurred. That is, it was a local flood which covered one particular region or land, not the whole earth. Again, notice that it specifies that "15 cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." In ancient times two different lengths of the cubit were in use, the sacred cubit of 25 inches and the common cubit of 20-5/8 inches. Therefore, the waters rose above the tops of the mountains it is speaking of by either 25 feet 9 inches or 31 feet 3 inches according to which cubit you use. If this meant that all the mountains on earth were covered, the waters would have to cover Mount Everest, which is nearly six miles high, therefore, all the earth would be covered by water six miles deep. In that case, where could it have run off to when the flood subsided? No, I don't mean that the Bible was that badly mistaken, only the translators made this mistake. The translators took the Hebrew word "eh-rets" which means "that land" and mistranslated it to mean the whole world. A little later, we shall look over the evidence which proves where "that land" was. If the whole earth was covered by six miles of water, then all nations must have been completely exterminated. Yet Babylon, Egyptian and Chinese history runs right through this period without a break. The Bible gives the date of the flood as commencing in 2345 B.C. and ending in 2344 B.C.. In lower Sumer, later called "Chaldea" (and which occupied the same "Plains of Shinar" to which Noah's family journeyed after the flood), the city of Ur of the Chaldees was the leading city from about 2400 B.C. until about 2,285 B.C. and its history is not broken by any flood in this period. Farther to the north, Babylon was rising to power from about 2,400 B.C. on and reached a great height of civilization under the famous King Hammurabi, who lived at the same time as the Hebrew patriarch Abraham (about 2,250 B.C.), and again there is no break in this history due to a flood. In Egypt, the Eleventh Dynasty began to reign about 2,375 B.C. over a great and powerful nation. The Eleventh Dynasty ruled to about 2,212 B.C., and were followed by the Twelfth Dynasty, which ruled to about 2000 B.C.. There was no break in the Eleventh Dynasty at the time of Noah's flood, 2,345 B.C.. The nation continued to be large and powerful throughout this period. Accurate history of China begins nearly 3,000 B.C.. The Shu-King historic record of China, shows that King Yao came to the throne in 2356 B.C., 11 years before the start of Noah's flood, and ruled China for many years after the flood. During the reign of Yao, the Shu King reports that the Hwang Ho River (which drains mountains and a great basin in Sinkiang province) had excessive floods for three generations. Here again, there was no break in history. The Chinese nation was not wiped out. Its own records show that it continued in existence right through the period of Noah's flood. Therefore, the Bible is correct in stating that the Flood covered only "eh-rets", "that land". The translators are wrong when they change the meaning of what Moses really wrote in Genesis 7, and say that the flood covered all "the earth". This leaves us ready to inquire where the flood did occur. For this, we will have to start with Adam and Eve and trace where they and their descendants went. They started out in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:10-14 tells us that a river went out of Eden and this river divided into four streams. It names these four rivers: Pison and Gihon (Neither of which can be identified among the rivers existing today), and Hiddekel (which is the ancient name of the Tigris River) and the Euphrates. The Tigris and Euphrates rise in what is today extreme southeastern Turkey, a little north of modern Iraq. Making some allowances for the fact that many rivers have changed their courses considerably in the course of several thousand years, this still placed the Garden of Eden at the northern end of ancient Akkad. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:24, tells us that God placed cherubim with a flaming sword at the east side of the Garden of Eden, to keep Adam and Eve from returning and having access to the tree of life. If this guard was to accomplish anything, it must have been placed between Adam and the Garden of Eden. So we see that Adam and Eve were driven out to the east. From Eden, Adam's course would naturally have led him across northern Iran, around the southern end of the Caspian Sea, into what was formerly called Chinese Turkistan and today is known as Sinkiang province in the extreme west of China. In the southern part of Sinkiang, there is a great basin, rimmed by high mountains on all sides, but with an outlet on the eastern end of it, through the mountains where the headwaters of the Hwang-Ho River, the Yellow River rises. This basin is today nearly all desert, but it bears evidence of a fertile and heavily inhabited past. Explorers have found ruins of ancient cities, uncovered by the drifting sands of the desert. Also the known geological structure shows that, in ancient times at least, beneath this desert lay an enormous underground natural reservoirs, caverns filled with water. It is the same geological structure which furnishes artesian water in many parts of the world today. These underground reservoirs were covered by waterproof layers of rock, which kept the waters beneath from overflowing out on the land surface above them. In this mountain rimmed basin, then a fertile, well populated land, Adam and Eve, or at least their descendants of a few generations later, settled. You who listen to this program already know that Adam was not the first man. He was only the first man in the present White Race. Adam and Eve found this land to which they had come already populated by an Asiatic people, among whom they had to live. Through the following generations, the inevitable happened. Wherever there is integration, intermarriages and mongrelization of the races follows. If God had no purposes in mind which could not be properly served by the Asiatic and negro races, there would have been no reason for Him to create Adam. Neither could the purposes which Adam and his descendants were intended to serve be fulfilled by a MONGRELIZED race. The consequences of this mongrelization are described in Genesis 6:5, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Again we find the word there mistranslated "earth" is the Hebrew word "eh-rats", which only means "the land", that particular land; and there is reason for using that Hebrew word, for this was the place where integration and mongrelization had taken place, with its degenerative effects as compared to the qualities possessed by each race separately. We find confirmation of this in the reason why God spared Noah. In Genesis 6:9, your King James version Bible tells you that Noah was "perfect in his generations" a meaningless phrase. When anything in the King James version of the Bible fails to make good sense, it is a sign that you should go behind the mistranslation and see what the words were in the original Hebrew or Greek. The word here translated "generations" was the Hebrew word "to-lad-aw", which means "ancestry". That is, Noah was "perfect in his ancestry", a pure bred, not a mongrel. Noah and his family were the last remaining pure blooded Adamites in the world, therefore, God needed to save them to carry out the purposes He had planned for the Adamic people. The MONGRELIZED people among whom Noah and his family lived must be removed, or they would be a trap which would eventually lead to the complete end of the pure blooded Adamites. Have we any other evidence to support our view that this was the region where Adam and Eve and their descendants settled? Yes. Remember that Adam and Eve were driven out of Eden to the eastward. Later, when Cain murdered Abel, and as a punishment was banished from the land where Adam and Eve lived, Genesis 4"16 tells us that Cain "went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the Land of Nod, on the east of Eden." The Hebrew word "nod" means "wandering". That is, in the upper Tigris and Euphrates valleys, at the north of Eden, these rivers were running swiftly downhill from their mountain sources. Therefore, they cut themselves deep channels in the ground. Even today we can find the traces of the ancient diversion dams, built by the ancients to raise the water level up close to the surface of the ground, so they would not have to pump it so high to get it into their irrigation canals. Farther to the south, in the lower Tigris and Euphrates Valleys, where the slope was no longer steep, the accumulation of silt picked up by the rivers where they ran swiftly was now settling to the bottom of the river beds, constantly raising the level, so that every high water season the rivers overflowed their banks and flooded the valleys. This is exactly the same as we have in our own Mississippi Valley. These annual floods washed away the people's houses and sent them fleeing far away to high ground. Therefore it was correctly called "the land of Nod", "the land of wandering". Here Cain settled, and taught the people to build high dikes along the river banks, just as we have done along the banks of the Mississippi river. This enabled them to stop the annual floods, so they could now build permanent cities of good houses in the lower Tigris and Euphrates Valleys, the land then called by its own inhabitants "Sumer", and later called "Chaldea". In a very few places the Bible calls it "the Plain of Shinar". That is, Cain went back westward from where Adam and Eve lived. It was thus that Cain started his great empire. Yes, Cain is a well known historical character, found not only in the Bible (but he is known in history under another name). Cain established an empire which extended from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean Sea and even took in some of the larger islands in the Mediterrean Sea. Some day I will tell you about Cain and his empire but, that is another story. Another bit of evidence is found in Genesis 11:2, which tells us that after the flood, Noah's descendants "journeyed FROM the east", until they came to the land of Shinar. Therefore, they must have come from some place east of the Tigris and Euphrates Valleys. The only place where such a flood as the Bible describes could have occurred, eastward from the Tigris and Euphrates Valleys, is this mountain basin in Sinkiand which I have been talking about. Another bit of evidence is found in the high water mark found in many places along the mountains which rim this basin, showing that at one time this basin was a lake, extending to this well marked shoreline. The mountains which rim this valley were not fully covered, for many of them range from 16,000 to 25,000 feet in height and one even rises over 28,000 feet. But, within the basin are several smaller mountains which could be fully covered by a flood held within the higher rim of the valley. In short, this basin, through which flows the Tarim River and which is sometimes known as the Tarim basin in southern Sinkiang, is identified as the site of Noah's flood. In your King James version Bible, Genesis 7:11-12 reads: "In the 600th year of Noah's life, in the 2nd month, the 17th day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up and the windows of heaven were opened. The rain was upon the earth 40 days and 40 nights." More careful translation makes clear what really happened, In moffatt's Modern English translation we read, "the fountains of the great abyss burst, and the sluices of heaven were opened". In Smith and Goodspeed's American translation, it says, "the fountains of the great abyss were all broken open, and the windows of the heavens were opened". That is, a great earthquake broke up this waterproof layer of rock over the immense, water filled abyss or cavern beneath this Tarim Basin, causing the floor of the valley to settle and allowed the enormous underground reservoir to overflow and submerge the valley floor. The great earthquake in the Himalaya Mountains a few years ago produced similar effects in some places. Of course, the 40 days of torrential rains added to the flood. This filled the valley high enough to submerge the low mountains which were inside the valley, exactly as Genesis 7:19-20, says. Don't be misled by the mistranslation, "all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered". The word mistranslated "Heaven" is merely the Hebrew word "Shaw-meh", meaning "the sky". Since this Tarim Basin is somewhat more than 350 miles wide by more than 650 miles long, all the sky visible from anywhere near the center of this valley would cover only this valley and therefore only those lower mountains which were within the valley itself. But what about Genesis 8:4, reading "And the ark rested in the 7th month, on the 17th day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat"? Sometimes failure to translate can be as misleading as mistranslation. Most people understand this to mean Mount Ararat, in Armenia, some 1,600 miles west of the Tarim Basin. This is NOT what the Bible says. First of all, note that it says "mountains of Ararat", mountains being in the plural, while Mount Ararat, in Armenia, is only a single peak. However, Mount Ararat in Armenia was known until comparatively recent times as Mount Massis", and nobody had ever heard of it being called "Mount Ararat" in Bible times. Furthermore, the Hebrew word "ararat" means only "the tops of the hills." Therefore correctly translated, Genesis 8:4 merely says that the ark came to rest upon the tops of the high hills, some of the lower mountains which were within the valley. A recent newspaper report mentions an expedition, equipped with the latest electronic equipment, which is going to Mount Ararat in Armenia to find the ark. The expedition will melt the ice, which covers the ark, by coating it with black powdered carbon. They won't find the ark because it is not there. Several expeditions have gone to Mount Ararat to find the ark. Some of them got within sight of a mass on the side of the mountain which, from that particular point of view, looked to be shaped somewhat like a ship. That point has been very carefully inspected from the air, by airplanes flying over it very close and it has proved to be nothing but a ledge of rock which does give a silhouette shaped like a ship, when seen from the right direction. I need not mention the many places, such as the Grand Canyon etc., where similar "ship rocks" can be seen and none of them are Noah's Ark. So, when we carefully examine the whole affair, and correct mistranslations, we find that there is no conflict between what the Bible really says and either science or history. In fact, there never is any such conflict, it is only the preachers who find themselves contradicted by either science or history; and that is only because they either won't take the trouble to find out what the Bible really says, or they have made the mistranslation a supposedly sacred church doctrine and now they are stuck with it. Don't let any church shake your faith in the Bible. The Bible is always right, even if the preachers are often wrong. Let us remember another thing, the Chinese historical record. The Shu-King records that during the reign of King Yao, at a time beginning about the date of Noah's flood, the Hwang Ho River carried excessive floods for three generations. Drainage out of the Tarim Basin to the eastward would have been carried off in the Hwang Ho River and would account for this. Now we come to another false doctrine taught in many churches. Since nobody survived in all the earth except Noah and his family, everybody now living is a descendant of Noah and related by blood, no matter what race they belong to. We have already seen that the Flood did not cover the whole earth but only one valley about 350 by 650 miles in size. Chinese history was not interrupted by, although they do report purely local floods in the Hwang Ho valley where the waters were draining off. We have seen that Egyptian history is not interrupted by the flood, so the continent of Africa was not touched by it and the Negro Race continued unaffected by it. It would be absurd to think that Noah and his wife, both of them being white, could have one white child, one Negro child, and one Chinese child. Remember that in Genesis 1:11-25, when God created the world and its inhabitants and made the laws governing their reproduction, He did not make it absurd chaos, with whales giving birth to cattle and fish hatching out of birds' eggs. His law, several times repeated for emphasis, is always that each creature must bring forth strictly "after his own kind". The churches that teach this false doctrine of everybody being descended from Noah never got it from the Bible, that is in any true translation of the Bible. As Moses wrote it in the Hebrew language, under divine inspiration, the Bible correctly tells that Noah's descendants went out into a world already populated by people who had lived right through the time of the flood and were still going strong. Ferrar Fenton's Modern English translation gives this correctly. In Genesis 10:1-5, we read of the descendants of Noah's son Japheth, and it says, "From these they spread themselves over the sea coasts of the countries of the nations, each with their language amongst the gentile tribes." Genesis 10:20 tells of the descendants of Noah's son Ham, "These were the sons of Ham, in their tribes and languages, in the regions of the heathen". Genesis 10:31 completes it: "These are the sons of Shem, by their tribes and by their languages, in their countries among the heathen." So never let anybody tell you that the Bible consists of the fables of a primitive people. It is perfectly consistent with all true science and all true history. It is the history of our race, the Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Teutonic White Race.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 9:32 pm:        When someone tries to convince me that because the Bible says the "whole earth' was flooded, I always ask them if they are sure that "earth' here means the whole planet. They always say, "why yes, it says the whole earth." I then say, well I guess that means that God shot Cain off of the planet somewhere into outer space because it says he was "driven from the earth." Haha, I use this as an example to show that words mean things and there are many different meanings to different words in the Bible. Sometimes they are rightly translated, sometimes they are not, sometimes they are literal, sometimes they are not. We must look to the original definition and see that it fits within the context of what is being stated in a particular passage. This is why we are admonished to STUDY to show they self approved. I tell people all the time, I have never "read" the Bible.......I study it. As far as tomh777 putting a label on me and stereotyping me in order to dismiss me from this thread, well, your statement concerning Adam and sunscreen was enough to make me distain from responding due to lack of logic in that statement to begin with. There are many subjects discussed within this thread, just because it is not to your liking gives you no right to play sheriff. I was led to this forum for a reason and until Yahweh tells me to leave, I am here to help as many as I can if they have questions thank you. Pastor Trent Woodard   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 158 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 9:44 pm:        Onlythetruth, You asked what my true point was. Well, it is NOT to get you to join some organization, it is NOT to ask you for money, it has nothing to do with my own personal agenda unless my agenda is to share truth. My whole point is, we have been lied to....and for a LONG time. I like this illustration that a preacher told me a while back. He said, Mary and John went to church one day, it was beautiful outside, a perfect day.....they left the church after the service was over and were walking home....a still small voice spoke to Mary and said,..."The preacher was lying to you today.." She immediately spoke out loud...."Get thee behind me Satan"...... like Paul Harvey says...."And now you know ....the rest...of the story." It is high time that Yahweh's people wake out of slumber and learn the TRUTH.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 9:52 pm:        Pastor Trent : If you are proved wrong in your theories will you openly admit it to the forum?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 159 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 5:36 am:        The reason many false teachings prevail today is because a preacher taught something for 20 years and then found what he taught to be untrue but because of pride he would not change it. When we find a truth, we should adapt, its called learning. I am not too proud to admit I am wrong if indeed I am. However, I attempt never to make statements that I know are not backed up with scriptures that prove out with 2 or more witnessses. Prove me wrong, if you can.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 162 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:08 am:        In times past I have preached in the A/G church as well as other Pentacostal churches. I tell them all the time that what we preached was full of half truths and unfounded doctrine. I was not afraid to admit it to them, nor anyone else. There were always things that did not add up concerning their teachings and I set out to find out why. And I did. I have been a seeker of truth since I was about 15 years old. I spent my entire adult life studying the scriptures. But one thing that goes far beyond time and learning and that is DISCERNMENT. Many people can quote large passages from the Bible, but without the proper understanding of it, it doesn't yeild much good. I don't mind someone trying to prove me wrong....actually I welcome it. As long as they don't take one scripture out of context in order to prove their own idea or agenda. That is the method that false doctrines have prevailed. There MUST be 2 or more witnesses to prove a thing, scripture validates scripture. If I find something in scripture only once, I file it in the back of my mind until I find a second witness. Wisdom is key.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:11 pm:        I am missing the point as far as the Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Teutonic White Race in conerned and to what impact and meaning this has on God's plan for the world and me inparticluar. Are you tryin to say the Israelites were and are a Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Teutonic White Race?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 168 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:28 pm:        Yes....most certainly. The Bible is written to Yahweh's people Israel. The common misconception, that the Jews are all that remains of Israel, makes the Bible seem false to those who hold this mistaken view. It is just as if you took a good history of the United States and wherever it said United States, you wrote in its place China. As a history of China it is clearly false, but applied to the right nation it is true. When the police have the fingerprints of a wanted man, they know the man whose prints match those they have is the one they seek. Likewise, when we find the people to whom all of Yahweh's promises to Israel have been fulfilled, we have found Israel. Today, the Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian nations have Israel's fingerprints in every detail. Yahweh first made His great promises to Abraham and repeated them to Abraham's son Isaac, and grandson Jacob, whose name Yahweh changed to Israel, "A Prince, ruling with God" or Man ruling with God; IshRaEl.... Israel had 12 sons. The descendants of each son became a tribe, so that all the descendants of Dan became the tribe of Dan, the descendants of Judah, the tribe of Judah and so on. After their long captivity in Egypt, they became one nation of 12 tribes, which continued until Solomon's death. Then the 10 northern tribes revolted and set up their own kingdom keeping the name Israel, while the old southern two tribed nation was called Judah. Thereafter their histories are recorded separately in the books of Kings and Chronicles, which like the prophets, carefully distinguish between them. About 715 B.C., Israel was captured by Assyria and deported to the lands around the south end of the Caspian Sea never to return to Palestine. The Authorized Version of the Bible doesn't record their further history, but the prophets continued for several centuries to give further prophecies of Israel's great future. The Apocrypha II Esdras 13:39-45, records their migration as far as the Sereth river, a northern tributary of the Danube in Rumania. Other historians of the time record their migration into northern and western Europe and the British Isles. Over a century later Judah was deported to Babylon, not Assyria, for 70 years as Jeremiah had prophesied. Afterwards, some of them came back to Palestine. Neither Bible nor secular history records any destruction of Israel. To the contrary, it was well known in Yahshua's time that they existed in great numbers elsewhere. Yahshua spoke of their continued existence separate from the Jews, in Matthew 10:5-6, 23. The complete destruction of the Jewish nation by the Romans and their subsequent troubles as outcasts in every nation, are not a failure of the prophecies and promises to Israel, but very accurate fulfillment of the prophecies about the nation of the Jews. With this history in mind, let us examine the prophecies and promises to Israel. Yahweh's promises to Abraham were unconditional. Yahweh must fulfill them or break His word for He said, "I will make of thee a great nation; thou shalt be a father of many nations: And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant. Thy seed shall possess the gates of his enemies." Yahweh did not say He would do this if or perhaps, they were unconditional promises and had nothing to do with obeying the law. These covenants were repeated unconditionally to Isaac in Genesis chapter 28:13-15 & 35:11. They were repeated, unconditionally to Israel, to whom Yahweh also said, "Thou shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee". There can be no evasion of these promises and Yahweh always honored them even when the children of Israel worshiped the golden calf. In many places the New Testament recognizes these promises as being still in force. In Romans chapter 11 Paul states, "I say then, hath Yahweh cast away His people? God forbid!! * * Yahweh hath not cast away His people which He foreknew." In Romans 9:4 Paul states, "Who are Israelites: to whom pertaineth the adoption and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the law and the services of God and the promises: whose are the fathers. Now I say that Yahshua was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of Yahweh, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers," If these promises are false, then the Bible is false. But if they have been fulfilled, the people to whom they were fulfilled are identified as Israel. In Hosea 1:10 Yahweh revealed Israel would become the sons of Yahweh. They would accept Christianity saying, "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them Ye are not My people (Gentiles), there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God." Of this Galatians 4:4-5 tells us, "But when the fullness of time was come, Yahweh sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." These cannot be Gentiles, for Romans 9:4 tells us that the adoption pertains to the Israelites. Therefore, we must look for the Israelites among the Christians. The Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian countries have fulfilled the prophecies and promises to Israel! (1) They are Christians and have been from early times. (2) They are a nation and a company of nations. The United States is the largest civilized nation in the world. The British commonwealth of nations is legally a company of nations. The Scandinavian nations, all of the same blood, can be identified by their history and their heraldry as the tribes of Dan, Benjamin and Issachar. (3) They are very numerous. In the last two centuries, the United States increased from a mere handful to about 250,000,000 people. In the last 3 centuries, the British Empire increased from 5,000,000 to over 70,000,000 Anglo-Saxons. (4) They expanded in colonies in all directions, as Yahweh prophesied in Genesis 28:14, Deut. 32:8, Isaiah 54:2-3, etc. Their lands are on every continent and in every sea. No other nations had such colonies. (5) They possess the desolate heritages of the earth, as Yahweh prophesied. In Isaiah 49:8 it is recorded, "Thus saith Yahweh; in an acceptable time have I heard thee and give thee for a covenant for the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages." Who else has so successfully developed the waste places, which were desolate when they first occupied them? (6) They are a seagoing people. Yahweh said of Israel, "His seed shall be in many waters." Numbers 24:7. "I will set his hand also in the sea and his right hand in the rivers." Psalm 89:25. The two greatest navies belong to the United States and Great Britain. The three greatest Merchant Marines belong to these two and Norway. (Note: This was written before the U.S. destroyed their Merchant Marine.) (7) They possess the gates of their enemies. Clearly Genesis 22:17 refers to the gateways of hostile nations, the great waterways of the world. The two great Anglo-Saxon nations alone have power to close every important gate in the world, and have done it in two world wars. (8) They maintain the continuity of the throne of David. It has been proven that all the kings of England, Ireland and Scotland are descendants of King David of Israel; fulfilling the prophecy that David shall never lack a man to reign over the house of Israel. Time allows me to give only a very few of the many prophecies about Israel which have been fulfilled by the Anglo Saxon and Scandinavian people and by no others. At least 100 of them have been found. When you consider that there are more than 100 recognized nations, the mathematical odds against all of these being fulfilled by just one small group of nations, all of the same blood is billions to one. Obviously the Anglo Saxons are the Israel of today.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 169 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:30 pm:        This is an age when news has been superseded by propaganda and education by brainwashing and indoctrination. From the advertising used to sell shoddy goods, to the classes in your schools designed to make your children into obedient robots of a socialist state. The art of persuasion has displaced the simple virtues of truth. The masters who rule out of the shadows, using as puppets those who govern us, to drive this nation ever farther down the path to socialism. These alien Canaanite Jews seek to gain control of your mind, for with that they will rule you in all things. One of the great fortresses of the mind, which they must capture if they are to change your destiny, is your religion. Suddenly we have been bombarded from all sides with references to our Judeo Christian religion and heritage. Just as the other communist party line phrases, hate monger and extreme right wing, have appeared suddenly in all our newspapers and most magazines, when the Communist party decreed it. Likewise has the phrase Judeo Christian, appeared suddenly in the writings of hosts of men who seek to mold public opinion. Was this the spontaneous idea of some one writer who originated it, if it were, he would have a monopoly on it for some time. Instead it has been used simultaneously by the many who serve the communist party, until even the fumbling copyists join in the chorus, not knowing whose purpose they are serving. Is there any truth in this phrase, Judeo Christian, is Christianity derived from Judaism? Does Christianity have anything in common with Judaism? Who can say with authority what the answer may be? Certainly Yahshua is the greatest authority, for none knows better than He and next would come His disciples. Let us ask them whether Christianity can be truthfully called Judeo Christian. When the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin were taken into the Babylonian captivity, the Sadducees and Pharisees among them were also taken. They paid lip service to the laws of Yahweh, using this as a means of getting control of the synagogues etc. In Babylon these non-Israelites further developed their oral laws still giving lip service to Yahweh's laws. The foundation and highest authority of Judaism is the Talmud. In the time of Yahshua, this bore the name of "The Tradition of the Elders". At that time there were two principal religious sects, the Sadducees and the Pharisees. The Sadducees were gross materialists who did not believe in a resurrection of the dead, or in any other form of immortality. They recognized the written law, as given by Moses in the Pentateuch, but it was lip service rather than honest obedience. In the time of Christ, they controlled the priesthood and the high priest was always chosen from their ranks. The Pharisees recognized the existence of angels and spirits, both good and bad and believed in the resurrection of the dead. While they recognized the written law, as given in the scriptures, they also claimed there was a great body of oral tradition, which was of at least equal authority with the written law. Many claimed the tradition was of greater authority. By their tradition, they undertook to explain and elaborate upon the law. This was the tradition of the elders, to which the name of Talmud was later given. It had its beginning at Babylon, during the Babylonian captivity of the nation of Judah, where it developed in the form of the commentaries of various rabbis, undertaking to explain and apply the law. This traditional, or Talmudic Judaism was very different from the true religion, which we find in the Old Testament. The late Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, who was the chief Rabbi of the United States, expressed this so clearly that I cannot improve upon his words. Rabbi Wise said, "The return from Babylon and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, marks the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism." Since the true religion of the Old Testament was the religion of the real Hebrews (not Jews), the learned Rabbi was quite right in calling it Hebrewism and noting that it was abandoned when the Talmud, or tradition of the elders was adopted. This also constitutes the beginning of Judaism. Nothing could be clearer than the total antagonism between Judaism and Christianity. All the opposition to Yahshua, including their murder of Him upon the cross, came from Judaism and those who professed it as their religion. The Pharisees and Sadducees represented the total entirety of Judaism. With this in mind, let us review the gospels and see if there we can find anything, which can truthfully be called Judeo Christian. The scene opens with John the Baptist at the Jordan River, baptizing those who came to him in genuine repentance of their sins. We read in Matthew 3:7, "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O children of vipers! who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" John must have felt that he didn't get any of his religion from Judaism, the Talmud or the tradition of the elders. What of Yahshua, did He feel that He owed any of His religion to Judaism? Let Him answer this. In Matthew 15:1-9 we read, "Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandments of Yahweh by your tradition? Thus have ye made the commandment of Yahweh of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites! Well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying this people draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth and honoreth Me with their lips; but their heart is far from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Yahshua was always warning people to beware of the false religion of the Pharisees and Sadducees. In Mark 8:15 we read, "And He charged them saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees." In Matthew 5:20 Yahshua said, "For I say unto you, that unless your righteousness shall exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Luke 11:39 records, "And Yahshua said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and platter: but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness," Was it from this source Yahshua drew Christianity? Nothing Judeo Christian in that!! Now turn to Matthew 23:13-15,23,25,27 & 29, seven different times Yahshua begins His denunciation of them with these words. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" Remember the Pharisees represented the highest form of Judaism, was this Judeo Christian? Without one single exception, Yahshua utterly rejected and condemned Judaism, in language as strong as He ever used against complete idolatry. What of the Pharisees and Sadducees? Did they show any attempt to become reconciled to Him and to have a part in some so-called Judeo Christian religion? When they heard of His miraculous healing of the sick or even saw it with their own eyes, their attitude is summed up in Matthew 12:24. "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils but by Beelzebub, the prince of the devils." They totally rejected Him. For example in John chapter 7 where they sent officers to arrest Yahshua so they could murder Him, but the officers came back without Him. Then we read, "Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought Him? The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?" Their only reaction to Him was that of hatred and murder. Matthew 12:14, Mark 3:6, and John 11:47-53, record the incident. "Then gathered the chief priests and Pharisees a council and said, What do we? For this man doeth many miracles! If we let Him alone, all men will believe on Him. Then from that day forth, they took counsel together for to put Him to death." John 12:10-11, tells us they even conspired to murder poor Lazarus, whom Yahshua had raised from the dead, because this miracle caused many to believe in Yahshua Is this Judeo Christian? Judeo it truly is, but Christian it is not and never was. Wake up! Who is behind this great propaganda effort to brainwash you into thinking your religion is Judeo Christian? Why are they spending so much money to give it such great publicity? What do they hope to accomplish by it? It is false and sinister to the utmost extreme.   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:39 pm:        America is Manasseh (a company of nations) "out of many..ONE. "E PLURIBUS UNUM" Britain= Ephraim Denmark = Dan (Dan's mark) Finland= Issachar (remember the battle song of Finland...they say, "Oh ye men of Isaachar", they knew who they were) France Zebulun Germany Judah (even their flag today has the same colors of Zara and Pharez) Northern Ireland also made up of Judah Reuben=Holland Iceland =Benjamin Italy = Gad Norway= Napthali Spain=Simeon Sweden= Ashur These were all white christian nations, this is where the Israelites travelled to after coming out of captivity from Assyria. TW   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 1:18 pm:        So who can be saved?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 171 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 3:49 pm:        Who did Christ come for? Matt. 15:24 “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Who’s sin did He come to forgive? Matt. 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save HIS people from THEIR sins. You say, “Well ALL people need to be saved.” My question to you is, “Saved from what?” The only people who can sin against His Law are the people in whom the Law was given. Ps. 147:19 “He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.” No one else was ever given His commandments and Laws outside of Israel. The New “Testament” as well as the Old Testament were written to, for and about Israel. No where in the New Testament did any apostle, prophet, disciple, or even Yahshua go to any other race than Israel. When He sent His disciples out he told them precisely who to go to, once again, ISRAEL. Matt. 10:5 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.” He sent them forth to preach the gospel that He preached, the gospel of the kingdom and that is what we should be preaching today. Yahshua did not go around preaching “Himself and Himself crucified.” He preached the gospel of the kingdom. And that kingdom being established on this earth is what we await. We look forward to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. We look forward to Israel being remarried unto Yahweh. We are now dwell in a grace period awaiting His return. We are NOT awaiting some “rapture” where we will be zapped from the earth. He did not say thy kingdom “went” but rather pray thy Kingdom come! We are told that we are to occupy until He comes. We need to occupy ourselves with learning His Laws and preaching the gospel to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, the family of His chosen People. All Israel will be saved as it is written.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:38 pm:        So what is the eternal destiny of those outside Israel?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 178 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 7:13 pm:        EC 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Only Adam and those who are kept as a remnant will have eternal life. We were given Yahweh's spirit when He breathed the breath of Life into him. To be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord. We will return to the Father for we proceeded from Him. Remember all the songs we sang in A/G?.....we are pilgrims and travelers in this world.....this world is not our home? We are NOT from here! This is our "tour of duty" so to speak. There is no hell or lake of fire for any Israelite. However there will be those who do not make it into the Kingdom as we read in Rev. There will be those outside the city who are left in darkness. That is why it is imperative that we live for Him. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 7:33 pm:        Matt. 10:5 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.” According to you Gentiles in this verse means "not an Israelite" but in other verses could mean "an Israelite" how do you distinguish the two?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 179 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 8:46 am:        Most of the time it is best to look it up in the original Greek, like in a Strong's concordance. Like I said, the translators have really made it difficult to just "read" the Bible because of so many words they just placed in there for lack of a better one. Take the word "world" for instance. It has MANY definitions, not just meaning the whole planet or the earth, like we use it today. Look up the word "God" and "Lord" and see that over 7,000 times they replaced YHVH with these titles instead of His name. Why is that? Psalm 68:4 "Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him." They did not remove it here but even still the letter "J" has nothing to do with YHVH for it was not even a letter until the 13th century, same with "Jesus" and "Jehovah".....names are not translated, they are transliterated. His name is YHVH and Yahshua, NOT "J"ehovah or "J"esus? If your name is Michael, then no matter where you go in the world, your name is "Michael", does not matter the language. I am just bringing this up to show you how the jews and their scribes systematically removed the name of God in the scriptures just like when they held Israel in Babylonian captivity they forbid them to use His name but made them say "Lord" which to them meant "Lord Baal." You will notice even today jews write G-D. They say it is not right to say or even write the name of God. Well, we are told to praise His name, pray in His name, worship His name.....NEVER that we are not to use His name!?!!? That is a Jewish concept. We do have to look beyond what the translators write many times because they have tried to pervert the sctiptures over time. I have always preffered the KJV. They were put under time pressure when they were translating it for King James. I believe this is also the reason for it's many errors. There was really not much difference in the KJV and the version they had prior to that....I think it was the Geneva? I can't remember right this second. But anyway, I say all of this to say that the Jewish scribes have been responsible for translating much of our scriptures today and they are not error free. I am not doubting the validity of Yahweh or His word but when man's hands are involved you can bet there are human errors, whether it be intentional or by accident. After the destuction of Jerusalem in 70 AD the LXX lost favor among the Jews because of the successful use made of it by the Christians in establishing the claims of Yahshua. Accordingly three canonical translations of the Old Testament books were made by Jews in the 2nd century AD. One was the translation by Aquila who was a proselyte to Judaism, AD128. The revision of the LXX by Theodotion, a Jewish proselyte who didn't believe in the deity of Yahshua and thirdly, the translation toward the end of the 2nd century was made by Symmachus, a Samaritan Ebionite. Threre is a lot more that could be said concerning this but I just wanted to show how long they have had their hands in OUR scriptures and how some of them were non-believers to begin with. But rest assure, there are still very blatant keys that are left for us to discover truth. I hope this helps....there is just so much that I could say but it would take a book, just on this subject alone.   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 9:26 am:        You said earlier "GENTILE is the word "Goy" in Hebrew and "Ethnos" in Greek. ALL BIBLES do not always translate it as Gentile nor is it most proper. It is most properly TRIBE, PEOPLE, NATION or RACE which you will also see after reading how the word is used and translated throughout the entire BIBLE. You'll also see that it doesn't mean a Non-Israelite but is speaking ONLY of an Israelite unless specified otherwise." Later you quoted Matt. 10:5 “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.” To establish your theory that salvation is reserved only for "Israel". Could it be possible you are contradicting yourself?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 181 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:20 am:        No contradiction whatsoever. Study it out for yourself. Look the words up in the original when you come to them in each instance that you don't understand the meaning within the context. It takes a little time and effort but the reward is great because if you just keep reading along and did not understand the previous passage you are just wandering in the dark and cannot really make heads or tails out of the rest of the subject matter to begin with. Not only is Salvation "reserved" for Israel, we are the only ones that need it to begin with. Amos 3:2 "You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities."   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 182 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:32 am:        The particular word "Gentile" in that verse comes from Strongs #1484, "ethnos"- a race, heathen, nation, people. The root is "etho". It would make no sense for Him to tell them to go to any other than Israel for the entire Bible is written to Israel, a specific race of people. We are the one's that got this grand idea to bring "the gospel" to all people but we did NOT get it from Yahshua. For us to try to turn a tare into a wheat and a goat into a sheep is something that I will leave up to the "miracle preachers" because Yahweh said it cannot be done and I am not going to attempt such foolishness. These preachers want to say that Yahweh turned away from His people (Edomite Jews) and went after another people the "Gentiles" (non-jews). Well, I would like to be shown where they were EVER His people because it is NEVER mentioned in the BIble but rather to the contrary. When He placed the charge upon them in the gospel of Matt. as being responsible for the blood of all the prophets from Abel to Zachariah, that pretty much summed up that they were Cain's decendants and were NEVER His people in the first place. Matt. 23:35 "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:42 am:        It is unfortunate that most people have so many mistaken ideas about their religion. This is due largely to the many mistranslations of words in the commonly used King James Bible. One of these mistaken ideas is that most of the people of the United States and Western Europe, in fact nearly all the Christians in the world, are Gentiles. You hear many of them, even clergymen that should know better say, I'm just a Gentile, saved by grace. I think it is high time that we learned something about one of the most misused words, Gentile. You may be surprised to know that there is no such word in the Bible, in its original language. Oh yes, I know that you are now riffling through the pages of your King James Bible, looking for some of the many places you will find Gentile in it. However, I said that there was no such word in the original languages. Translators, who changed the wording of the Bible centuries after the last book of the Bible was written, put the word into it. If you are a good Christian, you will surely agree with me that Yahweh inspired what the prophets originally wrote, in the books that make up our Bible. It was correct as the prophets wrote it. But not one of them wrote in English, because no such language existed until many centuries after the prophets lived. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was originally written in the language that Yahshua spoke, Aramaic. This is a Semitic dialect somewhat similar to, but not the same as Hebrew. Aramaic was not generally understood outside of western Asia. So, when Christianity began to spread into southern and southwestern Europe, the New Testament had to be translated into a language, which was widely used in Europe. Greek served this purpose nicely as well-educated men understood it, over nearly all of Europe; therefore the New Testament was first translated into Greek. Protestant English language translations of the Bible of today are nearly all translated from the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament and Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Let's start at the beginning with the Old Testament. The word Gentile is not once used in any Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament. There is a very good reason for this; there is no such word in Hebrew, nor any word that corresponds to it. Everywhere you find the word Gentile used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word goi, which means nation; the plural form of it is goyim. Since it means nation, why didn't they translate it correctly? Sometimes they did, but for the most part they translated it to fit the official doctrines of the church of their day. It didn't matter what violence that did to the true meaning of the word. The church hierarchy had long since determined what its doctrines should be. If the Bible didn't agree with them, so much the worse for the Bible. Men were still being burned at the stake, in those days, for heresy. Heresy meant any religious idea, which differed from the official doctrines, proclaimed by the bishops. The translators did the best the church would allow them to; let's examine some examples. In Genesis 12:2 Yahweh said to Abram, "I will make of thee a great nation". In Hebrew Yahweh said, "I will make of thee a great goi". It would have been too silly to translate this, "I will make a Gentile of you.@ so they correctly translated it nation. In Genesis 25:23 Rebekah was pregnant with the twins Esau and Jacob, while still in her womb, the unborn children were struggling against each other. Rebekah wondered at this, and asked Yahweh what was the meaning of this? Yahweh said to her, "Two goyim are in thy womb". Certainly Yahweh was not telling her, you are an adulteress, pregnant with two Gentile children, when your husband is not a Gentile. Yahweh said, "Two nations are in thy womb", and that is the way it is translated. It is the same word goyim, which elsewhere they generally translate as Gentiles. Now let's take some examples from the New Testament. Here the word mistranslated Gentile, is nearly always the Greek word ethnos. This means just exactly nation, the same as the Hebrew word goy. Luke 7 begins with the incident of a Roman centurion who appealed to Yahshua to heal his servant who was sick and close to dying. The elders of the Jews praised him to Yahshua saying, "He loveth our ethnos and hath built us a synagogue". These Jews would never praise anyone for loving the Gentiles. The centurion would not have built a synagogue for Gentiles. So, to avoid the absurdity, the translators were forced to translate ethnos correctly as nation. In John 11:50 we find that the Jewish high priest Caiaphas, was plotting with the chief priests and Pharisees, to murder Yahshua. Caiaphas told them, "It is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole ethnos perish not". Nothing could have pleased this evil Jew more than for all the Gentiles to perish, using the word Gentile as we do today. Therefore the translators had to translate ethnos correctly as nation, yet in many places, they mistranslate it Gentile. The Greek word ethnos simply means nation, it has no pagan, non-Israel, or even non-Greek connotation. The Greeks distinguished between Greeks and all non-Greek people, the non-Greeks were called Barbarians. All well educated men of that day knew this. The apostle Paul was a very well educated man, who was quite familiar with the Greek language and its idioms. He recognized this distinction between Greek and Barbarian in Romans 1:14 where he said, "I am debtor both to the Greeks and to the Barbarians". Therefore Paul never wrote the word Gentile in any of his epistles. What does this word Gentile mean and from what is it derived? It is derived from the Latin word gentilis, which means one who is not a Roman citizen. If you use the word correctly, then you would have to say that Yahshua and His twelve disciples were all Gentiles. None of them were Roman citizens by birth. How then is it used at present, when the speaker means to say that someone is non Jewish? About the fourth century A.D., its use was loosely extended to cover more than its original meaning. It was especially applied to those who were heathen or pagan. It became a term for those who were neither Christian nor Jewish. Christians and Jews were generally called just that, Christian or Jew. This was centuries after the last book in the New Testament had been written. The writer of any book of the Old Testament never used the word Gentile, because none of them had ever heard of it, as they had never come in contact with Rome. The writer of any book in the New Testament did not use it, for there is no such word in the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek languages. They did not borrow the word from the Latin. If you will look up every place where it is used in the King James Bible, you will see that it is never used in the correct sense, to say that someone is not a Roman citizen. This is the only meaning it had; the only way anybody used it in those days. The translators put it in, in an effort to make the Bible say what the translators thought it should have said; therefore it has no authority at all. Wherever you see the word Gentile in the Bible, remember the correct word is nation, race or people. Sometimes it is used when speaking of Israel nations or the Israelite race, as we have seen in the examples I have given you. In other instances, the context will show that it is being used for a nation, which is non-Israelite. Only the context in which it is used will show you which meaning to give it. When used of non-Israelite people, perhaps Gentile is as good a word as any, for we seem to have no other in general use. Never be deceived by reading the word Gentile in your Bible, for its only correct meaning is nation or race.   tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:49 am:        TO ANYONE WHO TAKES "PASTOR" TRENT WOODARD SERIOUSLY: Here is a PICTURE of him in his neo-nazi costume (or is it a "Christian soldier" suit?) ~ Now, honestly, would you buy a religious philosophy - or even a used car - from this man?   onlythetruth (onlythetruth) New member Username: onlythetruth Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.229.140.108 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:40 am:        For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Are the "Greeks" Non-Israelites?   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 189 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:46 am:        Thanks again for the free advertising TP. Actually Nazis wear brown shirts, not blue police shirts LOL. And I am not selling anything, I offer the truth for free! At least I don't hide behind some gibberish name such as tpkwertyuioqwerty, but I openly express my faith with no false pretenses and no hidden agenda. I know "my" message is not popular but the truth is seldom popular, if ever. Teutonic Knight Crusaders Blue Tunic Army of Christ   trentwoodard (trentwoodard) Intermediate Member Username: trentwoodard Post Number: 195 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:08 pm:        Israelite Fellowship of America ATHEIST JEWS (all jews) ARE THE ANTI CHRIST - REVISED 08/09/04 Even any Rabbi will tell you 90% of the Jews are Atheist. All Atheist Jews call themselves "Jewish" even if they are several genera