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     danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 132 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
This is a new thread about how and why you joined the Church in Indianapolis, Columbus, or any other satellite location. I know that members have a funny definition of “join” and there are different degrees of membership, but the definition I use is being a devout follower of Mike Peters teaching. http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/HowToJoinAllatHisFeet.aspx | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
Following is a teaching from Mike’s “kingdom” that disturbed me when I was in the group, therefore I wanted to go through the Indy “group thought” about relationships and point out a little of the “mind control” tactics that washes over our own “understandings“. It’s a little long and my comments are in [ ]; I hope you will “bear” with me. This teaching as you can see was circulated in the hearts and minds of the naïve 13 years ago… “Thoughts about Relationships A Potential Snare, Especially for Females Saturday Morning, February 26, 1994 The desire to have Understanding of how Jesus desires that we think and feel and act… on the topic of “best friends” is always important. Because of the magnitude of emotions relating to our basic instinctual desires for love and affection, and our disdain and fear of “loneliness” or rejection, this topic will always remain dangerously important… for us, for our children, in any legitimate expression of Christ Jesus in His Church.” [So if you don’t worry about this and just follow the Spirit and abide in the Son, you aren’t a legitimate expression of Jesus in His church? And if it is to always remain “dangerously important“, I‘m sure the NT must be filled with admonishment to women regarding the topic of “best friends“ Right?] “So, this (originally “internal” to the local assembly here) is forwarded on for those of you that desire God’s Highest and Best.” [And of course, you will ONLY find that under Mike’s authority…Right?] “Best Friends”—Close Relationships in His Kingdom There have been times in many people’s lives (people in the world as well as within the Elect) when they have striven for, or found, a “best friend.” I mean that in the natural and obvious sense: this special friend is the main person in their life…” [watch this now, here’s the subtlety, the twist that you are being conditioned to avoid] “the one that they look to in time of crisis, the one they are confiding in, the one that they are likely to be with at any given time, the one that they find the most pleasure in as a companion. Is this a bad thing or a good thing?” [this will come up again] “Parts of this are fantastic! Done correctly,…” [AS Mike defines “correctly”] “… it can be a spectacular gift from God! Aspects of that kind of relationship are precious and we can be grateful to God for “kindred spirits” and more. (In the major part of the church world where there is often much compromise and too little reality, special relationships are a miracle from God, many times. A close friend in that far-too-typical sort of environment is often a lifesaver and sanity check that is worth more than diamonds and rubies!)” [Here it comes again] “However, there are some very important things to watch for, if there is someone in your life that you would consider a “best friend,” or someone that is far more likely to be involved with you in your every-day life than any other single person. Are You Ready? If you are THE person anyone confides in, or THE person they feel “most comfortable with,” or anything of the sort, then some things do need to change right away. (Others around you are likely to be more unbiased in their assessment of this than you would be of yourself—as Paul said, “If we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.”) Will you unselfishly move to higher ground spiritually?” [Here is where Mike puts a stop to “special relationships”. You are brainwashed into thinking you can’t trust yourself and something is wrong if you are that “special friend”. I had a “friend” there. It could have been something “special”, but they got a hold of this person and things changed. Everything I said became something to scrutinize, looking for something to “seek equipping about”, which you needed to have to be “trusted”.] | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
[Now some motive judging…] “More often than not there are roots of self-love and insecurity that can cause us to cling to our “right” to having a “bestest buddy in the whole world.” A sister mentioned to me recently that, it seems to her, women (or even little girls) are prone to wanting and running after (or falling into) “best friend” relationships far more often than most males. WHY you have evolved into this type of relationship is an interesting question to ask yourself. Let’s examine some of the pitfalls, spiritually, of an unhealthy—the wrong kind of—“best friend” relationship. For starters, most of us have been on the outside of one of these things at some time or another as well. Only a few privileged ones, clothed in all of the social graces and with personalities or talents that make them permanent insiders, have missed the experience of being an outsider. It’s painful.” [Ok, let’s just say your relationship makes others feel badly, so Mike uses guilt. I am not unaware that there is some truth in that a close relationship between two people can make others feel badly…don’t flaunt it or rub their noses in it and also, try to show more abundant honor to those who have none, but that doesn’t mean you have to give up that “special and close” relationship] “ To willingly, as a disciple of Jesus, inflict pain or erect any unnecessary barriers between yourself and others, or your good friend and others—this saddens God’s Spirit.” [manipulative so that you will “give up” that close relationship where you could possibly talk about things that you see are not kosher in the workings of this group] “Our God “sets the lonely in families.” How sad to do the opposite by making anyone feel like a second-class citizen… on the “outside looking in.” [Can’t have that unless it’s for the leaderships best interest. Have you noticed the “tiers” mentioned on factnet? The many references to the “little people” aka “second-class citizens? “Ah, look at all the lonely people.” Unfortunately, this tactic was used manipulatively as a form of discipline…”withholding affection”. Also, Mike didn’t really “associate” in a LOVING way with the “little people”, nor did his upper tiers.] “Our close relationships, even within our own households, are to serve God’s People and give them a welcome home. “God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown Him—as you have helped His People and continue to help them.” No matter how convinced we may be otherwise, if you are THE person in another’s life (in the sense that you are the one they’ll talk to about this or that, seldom others, YOU are the one privy to their hopes and dreams and desires and DISLIKE OR COMPLAINTS)—you are causing them to stumble, and, in addition, you are excluding and harming others.” [“Dislike and complaints” emphasis is mine. See, Mike has to know everything. So he is conditioning those who are adhering to him to bring everything before him. This isn’t so much about God’s intentions for “best friends” (which I really have never recalled instruction about this in the scriptures--God doesn’t have any hidden agendas) as much as it is about Mike manipulating people to not keep anything someone says to themselves so he can keep his tight reign of control on everyone. And in regard to being the only “one they’ll talk to about this or that” there was a certain sister that would talk only to Mike.] | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
“God will not allow you to build this way forever. When the people in Genesis 11 thought they were of such oneness that they could do anything, God came and confused them and left them unable to communicate. And the building stopped entirely, with great pain. The time will come when God will, if He loves you, bring chaos, confusion, and pain into your relationship that has usurped Him and …” [in an all ready fearful and oppressive environment, the “fear” of God is effective. Now catch this one…] “His People.” [Mike and his lieutenants] “And you’ll lose the precious thing that could have been. It’s far better to do it His Way! Another sad aspect of the “best friend” scenario, “the” focal point and confidant, is that you are far, far less able to hear God’s Voice when it might be time to move on to other relationships or, perhaps, to be sent out with other saints to another city. If you are too “comfortable” because you have built a fortress for yourself in flesh and blood (or allowed them to do so with you), you will not be able to hear God. The relationship MUST stay on the altar at all times, if God is going to be with you.” [can’t trust yourself in this, bring things before ME, meaning Mike, and the lieutenants so we know what’s going on and can be in control. While we are at it…let’s threaten you with GOD’s presence in your life.] “Practically speaking, there is great poverty in the wrong kind of “best friend” relationship. Just as it tends to, unknowingly of course, isolate us from others, it also robs us of access to all of God’s Gifts. If my habit, due to an improperly built “best friend” relationship, is to “always” tell so-and-so first, or my knee jerk reaction is to run to so-and-so with news first, or to cry on so-and-so’s shoulder, or to ask so-and-so how to go about doing something in the Kingdom…” [Did I miss something? Isn’t it their knee jerk reaction to go to uh…Mike?] “… this “tradition of man” nullifies our ability to hear God! (Mat.7) Instead of asking God who we should go to for “equipping for works of service,…” [And who do you suppose THAT would be?] “…we have a “tradition” of handling it in a particular way. This usurps God as God! It also cuts us off (and others) from drawing on the gifts that He has placed in His church, with resulting poor fruit. Can you see it? May it never be. Please do NOT get yourself so comfortably into a relationship that you cannot hear God, or don’t even think to ask Him what He desires in the decisions we make. How should I spend my time? If you have an “automatic” place to go or person to be with, you are lacking in your relationship with God and giving away your future. As well as robbing them of their future in Christ. The traditions of men still nullify the voice of God.” [Cunningly, Mike has inserted some references to scripture to give his talk the “sound” of validity, but if you go back and really look at this stuff, there is only one benefit…and that’s the control factor. And also, you will notice that the scriptures and examples he mentions really doesn’t have anything to do with “Best Friends” And watch out for those “traditions” of having a best friend. How much David and Jonathan could have benefited from this teaching…NOT] “I know how easy it is at times to find comfort and security in the wrong places. Find it in Jesus! Ok?” [So now you think if you feel good about a friend or a relationship, you aren’t finding your comfort and security in Jesus. Just one of the NUMEROUS examples of mind control…really it’s VERY SUBTLE] | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
“Love, P.S. Great relationships are GREAT! Just be sure, please, that you are pointing each other forward and upward and outward, not towards each other as an end in itself. And launch each other into other relationships, rather than clinging! YOU don’t have all the gifts of the Body, nor do they. Don’t rob each other by being narrow for selfish or naïve reasons? THRUST one another outward,…” [Toward the “leaders”] “…if you really love each other in Christ, rather than selfishly. OK? A recap of the problem of predictable relationships? They are exclusive, and others are unknowingly left out of the magic circle. God sets the lonely in families. Also, it becomes nearly impossible to hear God when it’s time to move on, if we have found identity in a relationship.” [okay, now that those under his spell are conditioned and subtly brain-washed, let’s throw in a “little” truth so their little brains won’t notice what just took place, although notice the “subtle“ hints of criticism…”rather than selfishly“…”magic circle“.] “In addition, we can’t hear God day to day, drawing on His choice of gifts, going to those of HIS leading to share our lives, when the “traditions of men” have become ingrained and expectations are built into the pattern on both sides.” [he talks like it’s about God, but any of us who have been there know what he means when he talks about “His choice of gifts” and “those of His leading to share our lives”] “And, lastly, but very importantly, the wrong kind of relationship harms our relationship with God as we find too much security somewhere other than in Him. May God grant understanding and wisdom, and grace, to all that live to love and serve Him.” [And since the foundation has been laid as to “what” composes a “great relation”, NOW it can be said…] “Finally, let me repeat, so that no one reacts wrongly, Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! Great relationships are GREAT! 2/26/1994” [I thank God for the “friends” that I have come to know as a result of factnet who have been such an asset to me with their unconditional love and kindness and gentleness.] | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
I guess I'll answer my own question. Back in 1999 I was searching for a new church home for what ever reason it was. I found some people doing this "home church" thing and decided to join them. After a while I started getting emails forwarded to me that originally came from Mike Peters. Nobody really mentioned him that much, but after a while folks started contacting Mike himself and getting on his global email list. I remember those emails were pretty radical and since I didn't know the bible very well I never checked up on some of the doctrine. I started believing that Jesus' presence was exclusively in Indianapolis. I became depressed in my soul and the cloud of oppression followed me around until I renounced the falsehood years later. I denied every experience I had with the Lord before meeting Mike Peters of Indianapolis. This was wrong! Over time I replaced my sweet fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ with emails, books, and audio teachings from all at his feet. I started criticizing everyone around me (pagans, family, and other Christians) and even myself. I became a negative force that tried to push my opinion on other Christians. I declared most unsaved if they did not believe in Mike Peters' version of the gospel. I REPENTED IN 2005 AND NOW HAVE FREEDOM AND FORGIVENESS IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. ANYONE IN THIS GROUP CAN CHANGE TOO. TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEART. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.51.150 |
Along the lines of Tim starting this thread I wanted to share one facet of the many possibilities for joining Mike Peter's group or groups that are similar. This came up yesterday in conversation with a loved one... Where insecurities will lead you: Because I was insecure I feel that I was more prone to getting sucked into a legalistic cult. I guess this is a no-brainer but I'd like to explore the reasons more indepth. Seeking approval I believe is part of being a fallen human, some struggle with it more than others. At the time when I got involved I was more insecure and cared more than I should have for what people thought. Everyone wants to be loved and accepted. We are made this way. This group talks about, and has teachings about not finding your security in anything but Jesus. While this is true and beautiful it is also very impossible with them. This is a group that is set up on being accepted and approved of by those in position. I was even told once that I "needed to prove to them who I was in Jesus". Do you see the hypocrosy in that? Actually, that statement made to me by a woman in position was part of my wake-up call. For the first time in a long time, I heard God in my spirit saying "no -- this isn't Me". Proving myself to humans was what He was trying to bring me out of. I almost lost my family and husband in part due to wanting to be accepted and a part of this group. I also believe that the challenge of the Christian walk to lay down your life and carry your cross was grossly perverted by the teachings. They make obeying Mike's teachings equal to obeying God. What God did in me in all this was to make me totally secure in His GRACE, LOVE, and ACCEPTENCE!!! No human will ever make me doubt this again!!! To doubt God's love and grace is to reject the work of Jesus on the cross. He said "It is finished." It is not about me or my performance. It is about accepting His work on the cross for myself. He covers me with His righteousness -- it is not a righteousness of my own. AMEN! | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.101.241 |
AMEN! Graceisenough! And very well said! I too have been guilty of caring more about what "Mike" thought of me than Jesus. He once told a story about a situation involving a guy who couldn't start his car in a parking ramp (which they were in after leaving some kind of an event). Mike tells him to put the car in neutral and try again. The car starts. The guy is SO excited and tells his friends something like "Man, did you see that? My car wouldn't start and this guy tells me to put it in neutral and it starts..." Mike said it was like hearing him say, "He told me all I ever did!" (Woman at the well referring to...JESUS) oooooo! scary! Anyway, I am GLAD to report that I am not going to be identified with being "bruised" by this group as before. I have found great friends and great peace in the true knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ once again! And as you said, Graceisenough..."He covers me with His righteousness"! Therefore I am still Baxter, but it isn't bruised.baxter anymore...it's Romans 10:4 Baxter and my new email address is Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com Halleluia!  | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.51.150 |
Baxter, Praise God!!! I am rejoicing with you! God is so good. Thank you for sharing this. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
In regard to Tim’s question, they have a little booklet out called “How to join Christ’s church”. We should probably take a look at it and “see” if it is truth, truth with a twist or misguided theology. Anyway, I recall expressing our desire to have some of them (Mike’s group) to come and help us to learn to minister to and care for the lost in our community. But Mike said his arms were not long enough to reach out to places beyond Indianapolis and so he needed to “draw people in nearer to them”. In the mean time we listened to tapes and read booklets. We came to a place where we just believed we couldn’t “function” without them. So we moved to Indianapolis. That’s when they hadn’t yet received the “revelation” of “guarding their ‘rear door’”. At that point very few people were ever allowed to “join” their church, except for “satellite” affiliates. If I went back to visit now, I bet there wouldn’t be very many people new to me since their earlier days. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.131.175 |
By satellite affiliates, I mean people under the sphere of Mike's influence. People who have read his material (which as we have said, there's much "truth" in what he says, the problem is in the "walking it out"--see some letters at www.indianapoliscult.com) and became "hooked" into Mike's authority and begin "to ask so-and-so how to go about doing something in the Kingdom…” " (see above post regarding "best friends" Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 11:15 am: ). | ||
| workadmin New member Username: workadmin Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 81.169.137.209 |
A fitting quote describing my experience with "the group": "[The] society typically has a well established dominance hierarchies within it. Individuals learn to slot themselves in that hierarchy and function within that context. Low ranking [members] are adept at sucking up to their [higher ranks]." This quote is from the Nova documentary "Dogs and More Dogs". Fill in the [brackets] with "wolf" or "wolves" for a near exact quote. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.101.241 |
Hmmmmm, interesting quote, workadmin. So it's from a documentary about wolves? Were they wearing "sheeps clothing"? Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
OK, folks, guess who said the following: "This, too, is terrorism. It's terrorism to launch attacks on the Church, it's terrorism to stoke blind and irrational rage against someone who always speaks in the name of love, love for life and love for man." Nope, not Mike Peters, Chris, or one of Mike's other clones. Even though they have often called our FactNet criticism "spiritual persecution", this time it's the Roman Catholic Church who is lining up with Mike! The above quote was the Vatican's response to an Italian comedian who had criticized the Pope. Isn't it ironic that Catholic-hater Mike and the Catholic Church are using the same silly tactic? | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
A question for all of you former (and current) Peterites: Do the Peterites ever stay in hotels? What do they do for business trips? Vacations? I ask because of Mike's teaching about Voting: http://www.yourkingdomcome.com/voting.htm If you read this, Mike STRONGLY "discourages" his followers (especially his women) from voting because, by registering to vote, you take the "Risk" of Jury Duty and "the real possibility of being sequestered for days, or weeks, or months, in a hotel with pagans". Mike concludes with "It is hard to imagine a scenario that is worth this kind of risk" -- thus DON'T vote!!! But as I think of it, I stay in hotels "with pagans" (as Mike defines them) all the time -- on business trips and family vacations. So what does a "good little Peterite" do for business trips and family vacations?? (Hey Chris, here's a chance for you to get the first word in!!) | ||
| gottapost2 New member Username: gottapost2 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 83.125.40.111 |
c_f, That answer depends if you are an "approved brother" or not. If you are not, then expect severe scrutiny; if you are "approved", then you can do what you want. While I was with the group, most times another member attended my I travels. | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Gottapost, But -- even with a Peterite "escort" watching over you on your (family?) travels, were you allowed to stay in a hotel? (in the same hotel as all those evil "pagans"?) | ||
| workadmin New member Username: workadmin Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 166.70.232.84 |
Found this at: Factnet List 15.Doctrine of Togetherness (or anti-aloneness) Members' activities are regulated and monitored by other members. Members who spend time alone, except on the basis of personal prayer time, are brought under severe scrutiny by fellow members and face the church discipline process. "Togetherness" is taught to the point that members become hesitant and fearful of doing any activity alone. On FactNET, Wirklichmir's (CII apologist) 20 supportive statement of "togetherness" on FactNet asks, "WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE SCARED TO BE ALONE???!" 21 Even prayer time may be scrutinized if perceived as an excuse to "be alone." Domestically or abroad, Mike Peters and other leaders teach that all things should be done together. "Practical" examples include anything imaginable: shopping for groceries, department store errands, washing laundry, visiting the library, walking in the park, reading a book or the Bible, or doing good works (for which Jesus said "do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing"), even going to the bathroom22. Mike Peters and Tier-2 leaders' constant emphasis on "togetherness" even applies to how and when one may conceive children: "We are TOGETHER (that's HIS Plan) to listen for and obey His CURRENT Thought on the practical matters of Life and life. In THAT, and that ALONE, there is Safety."23 [SIC] According to Mike Peters, even a married couple's decision to have children can only be done in the context of "TOGETHER" where there is "SAFETY." The quotes from the volumes of publications from CII are too numerous list here. Furthermore, according to CII thinking, why would you want to be alone? The rationale is that your desire to be alone is rooted in personal sin or some hidden evil. Real examples of "togetherness" application are: * As already stated, one can't go to the bathroom in a department store without a fellow member accompanying. * One can't go to the grocery store or run errands alone. * Walking in a park alone to pray without a fellow member is be scrutinized, whether to pray or gather thoughts. Prayer may be the only justifiable reason, but lower tier members will be questioned. * It is rare for CII members to visit biological family members without an accompanying CII member to chaperone the visit. On Factnet, wirklichmir, a former member who supports CII doctrines and practices, writes: "the more ATROCIOUS and HEINIOUS the crime or sin, generally, the MORE ALONE or secret one is." [sic] The CII member paranoia is apparent in his further statement "WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE SCARED TO BE ALONE???!"[sic] 24 These violations are often the real reasons why some members are remove from CII. Rather than excommunication (or disfellowship), an "opportunity" to leave is offered. Practically, the effect is the same as disfellowship since contact with CII members is eliminated or limited to leaders in CII. This doctrine has broken lives, split and ruined families, and ruined long term relationships among CII members. All the division and destruction is justified with Jesus words who said, "do not think I came to bring peace, but a sword." Members who violate this doctrine or fail to conform are, at best, brought to a cowering heap of tears, strong-armed into further submission, asked to leave, or disfellowshiped for failure to adequately participate in "TOGETHER" life. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I realize that this is slightly off topic, but this article is a very good representation of how to treat an unbelieving family member. It's written from the perspective of a former wayward son in respect to how parents should love a wayward child to Jesus. I believe it can apply to other family members and friends as well though. It shows that we win them by our love, coupled with gentle rebuke. We have to be more concerned about the fact that they are destroying themselves than concerned with the fact that they are breaking the rules. You don't just kick them out. It's not about legalistic behaviour modification. It's about the love of Christ and the conviction of the Holy Spirit which is the only thing that can change a person. http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2007/2168_12_Ways_to_Love_Your_Wayward_Child/ joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| workadmin New member Username: workadmin Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 192.108.114.19 |
The Church in Indianapolis aka Indianapolis Church aka CII's blackmale heavy-handed tactics revealed here on factnet and http://www.indianapoliscult.com/ sounds like methods used by the Church of Scientology. Here are some quotes from BBC's Panorama documentary, Scientology and Me: "how come you can't investigate Scientology without Scientology investigating you? The moment you start investigating the church, you're in trouble." "Scientology's response? Is to damage the man's reputation." "Critics say followers risk having intimate details of their lives used against them if they cross the church... " "It's what happens when you challenge their view of themselves." "And not matter what, never use the word cult." Sound familiar, anyone? Former members, checkout the BBC documentary and see if you agree. BBC says it will be free to watch for the next few days. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/od/bbc1/nb/wm/video/pan_od_nb.asx mms://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/news/olmedia/n5ctrl/tvseq/od/bbc1/nb/wm/video/panorama_nb.wmv | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Thanks, workadmin, for making it abundantly clear why we (former members and other critics) call this group a "CULT". Their similarity with the Scientologists, Mormons, and other well known cults is amazing! In my case, I'm only a friend of a former member, so Mike and his cronies don't know a lot of "dirt" about me. So when I criticized them, what did they do? They dug, and dug, and dug, and eventually found something they could use against me -- and in the end, Mike Peters himself blatantly LIED about me, and in doing so, he attacked my family!! But that is typical of cultic behavior, isnt' it? | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Sounds EXACTLY like Peters' profile. Thanks workadmin! I tried to get those links to load on my computer but it couldn't find the page. However, talked to some friends who watched the video and they were astonished at how it was like watching Peters and his followers responses. They said the spirit behind them is the same (and we know who THAT is). SO, Mike, how is your computer access? Do your "subjects" do and say EVERYTHING and ANYTHING you tell them to, even if it's WRONG or a LIE? Are they SO controlled and intimidated by you that they would even go against the grain of righteousness out of obedience and adherence to YOU? Are their consciences so seared that they wouldn't even REALIZE what you are asking them to do is WRONG? Num 32:23 "... you have sinned against the LORD, and be sure your sin will find you out." Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| scannyd New member Username: scannyd Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
It is amazing how much the reaction of the members of the scientology group are like the members of CII. I was amazed at how angry they got and how they dug up dirt on people. Tommy(who was the head of some branch) got into the reporters face multiple times and accused him falsely. That has happened more than once with ex-members of Indy and the Indy group. The important thing to remember is that most cult groups act like this. The cult shows on the history channel showed similar behaviours. Doesn't Jesus say you shall know them by their fruit? I guess we can all see both of these groupd fruit! Hope you all have a great day! Danielle | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Not that I think very many others in the world are reading here anyway, but... Danielle, Allen and others in here who are still satanically drunk on their own opinions: First of all no one from these churches has acted in any way remotely close to anyone in Scientology, although of course to those "who call good 'evil' and evil 'good'," your views here have and will continue to differ quite a bit. Hitler and his henchmen, in particular Josef Mengele, also known as the "angel of death," were not the craven "mad men" outwardly that many have made them out to be. Rather, they were extremely "well mannered" and "put together" while they "politely" lead people to their deaths. Mengele in particular had all the children he heiniously experimented upon call him with various terms of endearment ("Onkle", etc.). He passed out candy to them and "doted" on them, and even told them to "Shutup!" in a very calm voice even as they were marching in line to their deaths. Right up to the gas chamber doors, literally. Others including Hitler were known to be men of extreme outward "doting" and "affection" even to people they were within moments of killing. See, it's not always the outward display necessarily that is the issue ("anger" versus "calm"), but the very issue itself of Truth and True Knowledge of Jesus of which none of you in here have. Jesus took the time to weave a whip together, it seems, and angrily sack everyone in the Temple. Jesus said some very "ugly" and "unChristian things" to the LEADERS of his day (whose idea of "respect" and what was "right to say" and "how to say it" was very different from Jesus' according to scriptures.) As did Paul, as did Peter, as did John and others... They "said" some things to other people that those people (and some around them with self-established definitions of "love" etc.) would have constrewed as "angry" or "hateful" or "unChristlike"... But it was God's heart and really an extension of Grace to say and do what they did and HOW they did it. "Love REJOICES in the TRUTH." Love is BASED in Truth. And it's not always spoken "politely" as some of you in here would count "politeness" and "rightness" (like the Nazis). God is VERY EXTREMELY angry with people such as yourselves in here (Jen, Dennis, Tim Dennis, Allen, "Baxter", Danielle, etc. -- the "same ol', same ol' little old handful" in here) described in Jude, 2 Peter, 2 Timothy 3 and other places. The fact that none of you in here understand the differences or are "able to discern the signs of the times" or "you do not know God nor the scriptures" (though you "study" and "blog" about them all the time, or "rant" about your so-called "knowledge" in here) as Jesus said, is EXACTLY why all this has taken place in the first place -- because you guys DON'T know Jesus, aside from what you "claim" for yourselves (STILL from behind anonymous masks, most of you!) But again, others in the world, not just in these churches, who have spent any time with you all, have come to see that and what your lives are REALLY like (in real life and not from behind this facade of the electronic world of pretense called the "internet") and in relatively short order. | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
So, again, it's not an issue of "angry" versus "not angry" and all the other little "smoke screens" you guys put up in here and have been postulating for over a year. You all have very much shown yourselves to be every bit as capable of "sounding polite" and "sweet" and "caring" as Josef Mengele while "politely" leading people right up to the spiritual gas chamber doors and dropping the spiritual cyanide tabulets. :-( The "politeness" and the smoke screens and the "double speak" while you "calmly" dismember people in here is what makes it all the more diabolical, as with the Nazis. It wasn't just WHAT they did but HOW they did it that made that period of time so utterly despicable, sickening and gross. As with you all in here. You try to "paint" people a certain way and yourselves the other, all the while destroying their lives with your lies every bit as diabolically as a good number of others in history have done in the physical realm. ChrisO chris.olive@comcast.net (formerly WirklichMir144@yahoo.com) | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Chris, you said: Jesus said some very "ugly" and "unChristian things" to the LEADERS of his day (whose idea of "respect" and what was "right to say" and "how to say it" was very different from Jesus' according to scriptures.) As did Paul, as did Peter, as did John and others... They "said" some things to other people that those people (and some around them with self-established definitions of "love" etc.) would have constrewed as "angry" or "hateful" or "unChristlike"... But it was God's heart and really an extension of Grace to say and do what they did and HOW they did it. "Love REJOICES in the TRUTH." Love is BASED in Truth. And it's not always spoken "politely" as some of you in here would count "politeness" and "rightness" That is exactly what has happened with the former members who have spoken out about Mike Peters -- a religious "leader" of this day -- and like those religious leaders of Jesus' time, MP and others have taken deep offense at the truth the former CII members have spoken. Saying that God is angry at us does not make it so. You do not speak for the Holy God. And you certainly seem much calmer this go 'round... Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 159.149.155.89 |
Chris, I am trying hard to understand what you are actually saying here. The details about Hitler and other events are bloody, violent, and really quite morbid. Why is there such a focus on evil and darkness? The examples you use are so dark and extremely unrelated to the current problem with the charge that All At His Feet is a cult and the fact that the above BBC documentary shows their similarities. I am afraid my friend that I am going to have to break it down for you again… Question 1: Do you remember in the past year digging up dirt and exposing it on anyone who testified that allathisfeet is a cult? Question 2: Do you remember in the past year lashing out at people who called the Indianapolis Church a cult? Do you remember 2x4 threats you used? Question 3: Do you remember your fascination with other people’s perceived sins and their present lives that you have never met in person? | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Has it been 6 mos. already? I sometimes lose all track of time. Chris/Mike says: "See, it's not always the outward display necessarily that is the issue ..., but the very issue itself of Truth and True Knowledge of Jesus of which none of you in here have." Exactly, on the internet you have an "outward display" of being the "pattern shown on the mount", but as we have said all along, it's not so much what you say (although some of it is), it's HOW you walk out your abuses that's the problem. Chris/Mike: "The fact that none of you in here understand the differences or are "able to discern the signs of the times" or "you do not know God nor the scriptures" Wow, "none of you", I'm assuming then that you personally know each and everyone in here? Chris/Mike "(though you "study" and "blog" about them all the time," Again, how would you KNOW this? Are you "spying" LIKE the people in the Scientology video? (See Danrepent's Question 3 above) "or "rant" about your so-called "knowledge" in here)" Allathisfeet.org WhoIs Allathisfeet.com WhoIs Needanexit.com WhoIs Yourkingdom.com WhoIs Hisfeet.com WhoIs Hisfeet.org WhoIs HisEmptyGrave.com WhoIs Housechurch.com WhoIs Tangentnet.com WhoIs Whereisthekingdom.com WhoIS These websites are filled with Mike's "ranting" and ravings about his "so-called 'knowledge'" Chris/Mike: "because you guys DON'T know Jesus, aside from what you "claim" for yourselves (STILL from behind anonymous masks, most of you!)" It amazes me that Christ/Mike thinks he has that kind of knowledge. And these are reasons why HOPE has faded, where is the HOPE in what he says? I recall him saying something sometime back on factnet about the little one, Skeeza, who said "everyone knew that their lives were shipped wrecked LONG ago". That tells me that they their perception of God and that there is no HOPE. To think that about a child denies God's ability to seek and to save that which is lost. To declare that about ANYONE still living denies the power of God and the WORK of God. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Chris/Mike: "But again, others in the world, not just in these churches, who have spent any time with you all, have come to see that and what your lives are REALLY like (in real life and not from behind this facade of the electronic world of pretense called the "internet") and in relatively short order." Again, HOW would he have this knowledge. On one hand he says most have been gone a decade or more in his posts, on the other hand he says "some have never even been to Indy". Unless he followed them around and witnessed every relationship with "others in the world" or in other churches, can you conclude with any certainty that what Chris/Mike says has any merit? How would any of you have that knowledge of them behind the "facade of electronix world or pretense called the 'internet')" or in "real life" for that matter, since they live in seclusion and they don't allow themselves to be "seen" other than in their "staged" appearances and by what they SAY on the internet. I challenge the readers to write to them about anything and everything and "test and see" what they are made of. I can almost guarantee, even if your questions are about struggles or anything that you would seek counseling about, eventually you will find yourself having a "falling out". Why? BECAUSE... Eph 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. And Indy isn't about the GRACE of God, but WORKS. Chris/Mike: "So, again, it's not an issue of "angry" versus "not angry" and all the other little "smoke screens" you guys put up in here and have been postulating for over a year." Does anyone know why Chris/Mike got onto this subject of anger versus not angry? Did someone say something about that that I missed? Or was he referring to the job that Tommy Davis had in the video that seems similar to Chris's? Chris/Mike: "You all have very much shown yourselves to be every bit as capable of "sounding polite" and "sweet" and "caring" as Josef Mengele while "politely" leading people right up to the spiritual gas chamber doors and dropping the spiritual cyanide tabulets. :-( The "politeness" and the smoke screens and the "double speak" while you "calmly" dismember people in here is what makes it all the more diabolical, as with the Nazis." As with CII | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Chris/Mike: "It wasn't just WHAT they did but HOW they did it that made that period of time so utterly despicable, sickening and gross. As with you all in here. You try to "paint" people a certain way and yourselves the other, all the while destroying their lives with your lies every bit as diabolically as a good number of others in history have done in the physical realm." Isn't that calling the kettle "black"? You have tried to "paint" people in here as "shipwrecks of faith" and spiritual losers. There is no redemptive heart. You know what I learned from you Mike and have seen it in the heart of your followers? I learned how to judge, distrust, be sceptical, reject, loathe, criticise. You weakened my faith and took away HOPE. I have no doubt you will be surprised one day that you THOUGHT you were doing God a service, but will find out that you have been "all the while destroying their lives with your lies every bit as diabolically as a good number of others in history have done in the physical realm." P.S. Thanks for your post, danrepent, I thought it was just me that couldn't figure out what Chris/Mike's post had to do with anything. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
There were several things in the BBC/Scientology video that reminded me of the last year and interaction with Indy that it almost took me by surprise. One thing was Scientology's 'disconnect'. The way they cause their members to disassociate with their family members. Did anyone else cry when they saw the former member who was interviewed with his wife and spoke of his father who considered his greatest 'accomplishment' in life to be his 6(?) kids, and yet how none of them would speak to him? Another thing was the extreme defensiveness when someone says the 'C' word. And of course, there was the digging up of dirt and publicizing their version of it to discredit the critics. joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
You know, when you talk about the similarities among all cults and them having the same “spirit” behind them, it doesn’t mean that they will do exactly the same thing or have exactly the same practices as each other. Nevertheless, they all still harm and cause damage to those under their control and influence, whether it’s emotional, spiritual, mental, and in some cases physical. They also have the same similarities and responses to those who speak out against them. I found the following excerpt in the book, Churches That Abuse by Ron Enroth. It would take too long for me to go back and link to all the times and places I have read Chris/Mike saying this very same thing as in his most recent post above… “God is VERY EXTREMELY angry with people such as yourselves in here (Jen, Dennis, Tim Dennis, Allen, "Baxter", Danielle, etc. -- the "same ol', same ol' little old handful" in here) described in Jude, 2 Peter, 2 Timothy 3 and other places.” “I have extensively interviewed a number of former members of the Community and have no reason to believe that they were being untruthful. Independent verification from various other sources has confirmed to me the questionable behaviors at the COJ, and has led me to include here a brief discussion of the problem. I do this despite REPEATED ASSERTIONS TO ME BY THE LEADERSHIP THAT THE REPORTS ARE INVALID, AND THAT THEY REPRESENT THE COMPLAINTS OF ONLY A HANDFUL OF ‘DISGRUNTLED’ EX-MEMBERS….It would seem that since reports of abuse continue to surface, to completely discount the experiences of these former adherents is to question the motives of an increasingly large group of people who have been, from their perspective, deeply hurt as a result of their association with the COJ. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
You will notice the excerpt from Ron Enroth's book that he says, "despite REPEATED assertions...that they represent complaints of only a HANDFUL of 'disgruntled' ex-members". He says that without even having any knowledge of CII. I thought I would take a look at how many times I could find we were referred to as a “handful”. That term is relative. First I know there are some who have left who don’t even want to deal with the fact they had been abused and manipulated and don’t even WANT to give Indy or their experience any thought. There may be some who would want to post, but are afraid. I know of some ex-members who for what ever reason just don't post. Then there may even be those of his own number who would post if they had the freedom to know it was here for them. But given the fear, control and manipulation, they aren’t going to even if they could…they aren’t dummies, they know Mike has spy ware to keep people from going places he doesn’t want them venturing into. Secondly, as Mike so adamantly boasts that they don’t allow people to move there, they really can't have much more than a “handful” of themselves anyway in his 20+ years. mike_indpls Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 “…a handful of others have taken here is fairly evident.” wirklichmir Post Number: 208 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “Let the reader ALSO understand that the handful (and it's only 7-10 people folks, if THAT!?)” wirklichmir Post Number: 210 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “But again, the article itself was EXACLTLY what the handful of God haters in here needed…” wirklichmir Post Number: 210 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “It's funny again how from the handful here, the "attackees" and the "attackers" are completely reversed in a lot of cases.” wirklichmir Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “It's saddening beyond description the depths some people [again only the same handful, out banging their pots to sound "bigger"] will go to to discredit others and who could care less how many people they take down into the pit with themselves by their outlandish and hate-filled lies.” wirklichmir Post Number: 224 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 [ChrisO in his attempt to speak for us…] “Don't say a WORD about the fact they there are an equal if greater number of places WE OURSELVES have created to make sure people get a whiff of the pantheon of lies we've constructed -- just us handful of '10 angry men' -- to try and DESTROY that which has caused us so much harm." … “We'll keep skipping the redundant parts…” [I couldn’t help but notice this line. J] wirklichmir Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “It seems that nearly everyone who's been in Indianapolis that didn't want to pay the full price Jesus asked everyone to pay is suddenly landing here. That's not many by the way, for our readers at home, but, as you can see here -- a handful, as Jesus said would be the case if we truly followed Him.” wirklichmir Post Number: 192 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 “let me point out a few things for those reading at home again, since for the demonics running this thread with their own following of a handful of dissidents, it's not going to matter anyway.” | ||
| speakingtruth New member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I am at peace knowing that our Lord is Sovereign over all of this. The BBC video was excellent in exposing the same type of works found in the Indy cult. Certainly on a smaller scale and with a bit different mask but the same Devil with the same tactics behind all of it. I was not surprised when I saw the reporter lose his cool a bit after being badgered relentlessly by the spirit behind the the Tommy Davis guy. I don't know if this reporter was saved but either way I did feel for him wishing he knew the Lord's grace to be able to endure such agitation from an evil spirit. In Acts 16, the Apostle Paul himself was quite irritated by the woman with a spirit of divination of which he rebuked from her in Jesus name. May God continue to grant grace to all who must endure the likes of this type of spirit after exposing it and it's works. And may we not forget that our battle is not against humans but it is against the evil spirits behind them which fight against the Grace and Truth of our Lord. We must endure the attacks of darkness when we shine light onto their territory of control and abuse over other's lives. The arrows will fly but we have been given God's Armor as our defense and we will always be led into victory through Christ Jesus. May God grant mercy to the blind. This is never over until the Lord returns or people are set free from the bondage of cult. denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
Mike & Friends claim that only a handful of people have been negatively affected by this group called AllAtHisFeet. Out of curiosity: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE WHO HAVE BEEN HURT BY ALLATHISFEET CULT? How many brothers and sisters of members? How many parents of new recruits? How many families and children (including those trapped inside)? How many friendships were broken? How many non-Christians turned away? 10, 20, 30, 3,000? whistleblower@indianapoliscult.com | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: ChrisO said 2 days ago... chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 2:56 pm: "First of all no one from these churches has acted in any way remotely close to anyone in Scientology" *************************************** Consider the following... danrepent Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:09 pm: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/29351.html?1176750602 Attack of the clones: Why would Dan Z. buy www.indianapoluscult DOT ORG? Maybe to mimic www.indianapoliscult.com and lure people away from this. Don't you think this is a low and undignified way to counteract criticism? I would think a real cult would try to trick people by cloning another website's name and registering it as an [ORG] instead of com. The only method that I think will truly work for them is to repent and change what they have done and are currently doing. Then make a generic public & private apology to the families that have been torn apart. Next, if they truly have changed they need to get rid of all the teachings that lead people astray and cause marital divisions. ChrisO accused me of creating multiple websites. How many websites do they own now? danrepent whistleblower@indianapoliscult.com (Message edited by danrepent on March 02, 2007) ******************************************** http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/29351.html?1176750602 baxter Member Username: baxter Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 1:24 pm: "As you all know by now, Tim D. has a web site that was created to warn the public and HOPEFULLY those still trapped in the confines of Mike Peters and company. That web site address is www.indianapoliscult.com. In a schemed attempt to hide the truth and draw people away from the evidence against them, Dan Z. has purchased the domain name www.indianapoliscult.org. and when you visit it, you will find the groups take on “What is a cult?” This was done on January 15, 2007. I would encourage the readers to compare what the Indianapolis and Columbus cults have to say about what a cult is as opposed to what the “experts” have to say who have had the task of dealing with the people who either have family and loved ones trapped in cults, people who have been abused by cults and are now released but damaged, and with the cults themselves. You will notice that Mike’s teaching is an attempt to say every other “church” out there is a cult and THEY are not. It is an attempt to get the spot light off of themselves so they can go on deceiving. You will also find that they are the only ones that have this view of what a cult is, whereas the “experts”, where ever you may find them, all corroborate with each other with similar findings. bruised.baxter@gmail.com" | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
AND NOW... 4 November 1996 Important Notice Re: Cult Awareness Network To Whom it may concern: On October 23, 1996 the law firm which has represented the Church of Scientology for years purchased the logo and license agreement of the Cult Awareness Network (CAN). Accordingly, any publications or communications using the CAN name or logo after October 23rd (1996) should not be regarded as emanating from or having the approval of the Cult Awareness Network personnel or officers who were associated with CAN before 23 October. Sincerely, Herbert L. Rosedale, Esq. President AFF ****************************************** Also: "The Cult Awareness Network (CAN) was founded in 1978 in the wake of the Jonestown mass suicides. CAN is now owned and operated by associates of the Church of Scientology, an organization that the original founders strongly opposed. Prior to the takeover, CAN provided information on groups that it considered to be cults, as well as support and referrals to so-called deprogrammers. Supporters and detractors alike use the terms "old CAN" and "new CAN" to refer to the two periods of the organization's existence. Public perception In her book Researching New Religious Movements, Arweck wrote that individuals began to fear that Scientology would "..use CAN's name to cause confusion..", and these fears solidified with the appearance of "New CAN". Opponents of the 'new CAN' say that since 1996 it has become effectively a subsidiary organization of, and a front group for, Scientology, as it exclusively promotes Scientology's point of view regarding cults and deprogrammers. For example, a section of its website relating to the Aum Supreme Truth sect authored by Nick Broadhurst, a New Zealand Scientology Spokesman, stated that "...the media was unable to be see[sic] the actual source of the crimes at Aum, which of course was the psychiatric treatment, and which continues in hospitals around Japan today;" Broadhurst thanked the Scientology subsidiary Citizen's Commission on Human Rights for usage of material in his report. Scientology is extremely hostile towards psychiatry. The site does not contain any criticism of Scientology, unlike most other sites which claim to provide anti-cult information (other than those dedicated to other specific groups). In the Scientology publication IMPACT, Nr. 72, Scientologist and CAN VP Jean Hornnes explained: We have successfully prevented deprogrammings and we have taken broken families and helped to put them back together by using standard LRH technology on handling PTSness. Other news sources reported that the (NEW) Cult Awareness Network was owned by the Church of Scientology. A December 1996 report by CNN had the headline: "Group that once criticized Scientologists now owned by one." One Scientologist was quoted in the report as stating that he believed the New Cult Awareness Network would stand for "religious freedom", however former director Cynthia Kisser was quoted as saying: "People are going to believe they're going to talk to an organization that's going to help and understand them in their time of crisis, and in fact, it could be a pipeline of information directly to the group they're most afraid of.". The New CAN has been accused of passing the name of a caller, a concerned mother, to the cult she was inquiring about, which resulted in further damaging the relationship with her daughter. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Penn writes in False Dawn that the New Cult Awareness Network is "dominated by Scientologists". In describing what he refers to as the "doublespeak" of the (New) Cult Awareness Network, Tuman states that Scientology and CAN utilize the term "religious freedom" as a hallmark of its defense against critics. Tuman wrote that: "What seems to be the case is that the Cult Awareness Network has kept its same name and even its original mission statement, while shifting its concern 180 degrees, from investigating sects to protecting them (from "religious intolerance"). Tuman concluded his piece entitled: "The Strange Case of the Cult Awareness Network", by comparing the Web site of the (New) Cult Awareness Network to the 1956 cult film, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Profiled on 60 Minutes In December of 1997, 60 Minutes profiled the new management of the Cult Awareness Network, in a piece hosted by Lesley Stahl, entitled: "CAN: The Cult Awareness Network". 60 Minutes referred to the (OLD) Cult Awareness Network as a comprehensive resource, stating it was: "..for 20 years the nation's best-known resource for information and advice about groups it considered dangerous." The current influence by the Church of Scientology was investigated, and Stahl commented in a voice-over: "Now, when you call looking for information about a cult, chances are the person you're talking to is a Scientologist." The Xenu story and the Fair Game policy was described by Stahl; examples of the Fair Game policy were given on-camera from individuals such as Stacy Brooks, as well as a private investigator hired by Kendrick Moxon. The Time Magazine article, The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power was also cited as a reference in the report. The piece concluded by displaying some of the pamphlets distributed by the (NEW) Cult Awareness Network, which included one called "Facts about Deprogramming" and another entitled "Fact vs. Fiction: Scientology: the inside story at last." The 60 Minutes segment itself was later cited by secondary works on the history of the Cult Awareness Network. | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
You are right about Mike and his group taking over the site www.indianapoliscult.org to try to confuse people and draw them from the real cult site www.indianapoliscult.com. I did not know that was standard cult behavior as shown by the other groups. http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/copycats.aspx ChrisO, what can you offer about this fact? | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
Another testimony and witness to the Church in Indianapolis and Mike Peters. As the teachings reach into Florida, members become one in purpose with one man not God the Father. COULD FACTNET BE TRUE? "...after reading all of the other testimony's on Factnet, they all seems way too similar for it just to be a coincidence so I thought that I should post what I saw take place to a group of precious young saints after becoming involved with the teachings of the group from Indiana. So, in my mind, either all of the testimonies on Factnet are lies and fabrications and the fact that my experience with the group in Pensacola being almost identical to the testimonies are totally, completely and purely a big coincidence OR there is no coincidence and there really is cause for concern." MIKE PETERS AND THE INDIANAPOLIS CHURCH, MARRIAGE HATERS OR PEACE MAKERS? "At this time Doug and Eve were about to be married and Star commented how proud she was of this other couple who decided not to go on a honeymoon because they wanted to be with the "Body" and not see themselves as separate. Eve started feeling guilty for wanting to have a honeymoon with her new husband..." Read the complete testimony at: http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/pensacolaexperience.aspx | ||
| workadmin New member Username: workadmin Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.84.114.153 |
>>She was about 8 months pregnant. One of the most precious girls I’ve ever known... called me crying and kept saying over and over “I just want to obey Jesus. I just want to obey Jesus!” She had been disfellowshipped by the the group and even by her own husband.. because of pride, independence and family idolatry.<< The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. This is systemic in Indy. Kate from Pensacola: prepare to be slimed by Indy. If it doesn't happen publicly it will happen in private. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, sorry. -wl | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
workadmin: "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. This is systemic in Indy." Exactly, it isn't so much that these people became this way through just "reading" or watching the tapes. Kate said, "I learned that both of the groups were in almost daily contact with Mike Peters....She told me that she was not sure about that as Doug had daily contact with him [Mike] and spends much time emailing him [Mike] back and forth over the situation." As I shared in an email..."My guess is that when they actually began to have Mike telling them HOW to walk out this "daily life" instead of just reading about it, gleaning some truth and allowing the Holy Spirit to work in them in His timing and in His way, that's when things began to spiral downward. It was sad to see the deterioration going from joyful fellowship with Father, Son and Spirit and enthusiasm for what Christ had done through the cross, to cold, stearn, joyless, fearful existence. I know that inward working and how "new" believers trying to put into practice what Mike writes in his books or shares on the tapes come to a place where they think they know nothing and begin getting all their cues from Mike either by phone or by email. Something happens, email Mike and wait for response, he tells you what to say and how to say it, you eagerly follow thinking you have really come to something GREAT! (like the Urim and the Thummin), then the person responds, you get back to your computer and email Mike and wait for his reply, he tells you what to say and how to say it (or what to do), again you act as though you have stumbled upon God himself as you confidently perform your new command, repeat for as long as you are now in the bondage of a man, Mike Peters. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.99.61.188 |
I am so heartbroken over this testimony. When will is end? I am mostly heartbroken for this young wife who like the real Eve in Genesis was created as a helpmeet out of the rib of Adam. Made to be special companions together, this young wife is being told that the way God made her is sin. Every young wife/mother to be needs to prepare for birth, and spend alone time with her husband. THE TWO SHAL BECOME ONE!!! I am so sad over the dividing of marriages. God can heal this, I can testify. But the pain that she is feeling cuts me to the heart. This testimony is similar to many others from different people and different places who don't know eachother. Let this be a wake-up call to those reading this who are still involved. May God give you eyes to see. Some truths about the state of organized religion or a revelationary way to look at different expressions of Christ's body are not enough for us to ignore the red flags and blaring destruction caused by this group and it's teachings. I have been and I have seen others who are so zealous over a new revelation that they become blind to the obvious contradictions and false teachings that are twisted in. Remember, there is always a bit of truth mixed in with huge deception. Don't always listen to the words they may say but catch the essence of the heart. Encouraging someone to repent, take up the cross, or give up all for Christ is all part of the Christian's journey but be very careful about the context in which these things are said. For this group these are "catch phrases" attached to obeying one of their rules of MAN (Mike Peters). This is also very common for cults, they use biblical terms and lingo mixed with false doctrines. Most JW's say they are living for God's kingdom, too. We have to be so discerning when it comes to what I call bible based cults (CII) because the subtleties are sometimes hard to recognize until it's too late. This woman who posted from FL has done the best thing in my opinion. She has not ignored her initial red flags. I am so thankful for her heart and the wisdom God's given her that she cannot ignore! I pray for the freedom of this young couple. enelson8735@yahoo.com | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
This is SO well said, graceisenough, it HAS to be annointed! Thank you SO much! Love ya! Baxter | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.99.61.188 |
Thanks for the encouragement Baxter. Timing is so amazing to me. I spoke to someone last night who is also in great pain due to the fact that she hasn't seen her sister in 12 years!!! Her sister is in Indy, following the teachings of Mike Peters. I have never shared about anyone who has contacted me about this group but I feel compelled to say a few things. From how many brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, and children have we heard the same heartwrenching story? They haven't seen a loved one in years. They have never met their grandchildren or nieces and nephews of this cult. OR, if they do see them a few times over the years, the relationship is so strained and painful they say they can't even speak to the family member openly about how they feel about the group they're in. They fear losing contact for good. So, like many others have testified, they stand by not knowing what to do just glad to have any kind of contact. How long before some members see the writing on the wall? If you members are so fond of statistics about the decay of the modern church, how about some stats on how many of your members shun their parents? Or how many of you don't allow your children to know their grandparents or cousins? What are you so afraid of? If you have a light why not let it shine? If you have the Love of God why not let it flow? Why does your family say they see no love in you? Why do you look like a cult if you are not one? What does "honor your mother and father" mean? It is one of the ten commamdments. Ask God if you are honoring them. Sending flowers with a note about how they need to repent is not honoring. I asked myself these same things when I was in this. If you are a parent trying to figure out what you did wrong in raising your child who is now in a cult or you feel the badgering accusations of guilt, it's time to move on. Take responsibility if necessary and stop blaming yourself. People make choices. It wasn't my parents fault that I got involved. It was my choice and I had warning signs. If someone you know is in this group please have hope. God's truth will prevail in time. Even if we don't see it happen on this side of eternity. Pray that they would be set free. And that all would know the Grace that Jesus came here in to take our place and to die our death on the cross. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Something I was thinking about...Why do you suppose it is that people who read Mike's books end up in some kind of communication with him? Does he put his email address in the books? (Since email was relatively "new" at the beginning of these books, I don't think an email address was located in the book in the early editions.) Does he "invite" contact? Does he lead people to think they NEED his contact (as though he is the ONLY source of truth left in this world)? I mean, if you were reading books by other authors is it "normal" to contact those authors? Why Mike? And have you ever noticed that if you try to contact well known and RESPECTED authors like John MacArthur; James Dobson; Josh McDowell; Woodrow Kroll; Charles Stanley; etc. that you probably get others than the person you were "hoping" to contact. Why is that? Are those author's, other than Mike Peters so busy "seeking first the kingdom" in their own lives and have such a trust of their brothers and sisters in Christ that they don't NEED to be the sole person responsible to respond to all inquiries? Is Mike so untrusting of his own followers that he has to control and manipulate the incoming of emails? Is he afraid that they might be emails from people who consider him to be a cult and he doesn't want his followers to have that information? Is he afraid that the emails might contain information or questions that would "plant" seeds of doubt in his followers as to his ability to be a leader? All you people out there who think you have stumbled accross something "not of this world", remember: you can read something that man has written, but ALWAYS WAIT ON THE LORD! 1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily {to see} whether these things were so. If Mike tells you that you have a problem with the "head" because you don't "receive" everything he says when you are waiting and allowing God to make things clear...be concerned. I think most problems enter in when Mike begins to start telling people what to do, and how to do it; what to say and how to a say it; what to think. I have seen and heard people ask about what to do in a situation, what should "I" say?, etc. They are people who put faith in their leaders without knowing the scriptures. Dangerous for us all. Please if you MUST ask a question, then before you accept it as the "truth" of God, give God a chance to open your heart. Consider, read the scriptures, but allow GOD to reveal the truth. Some things are obvious...you just know! But other things that aren't clear, just ponder and consider and LISTEN for HIS VOICE! | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I can remember back when I first started to get over the hurt about what they did to my husband --the lies, accusations, and libelous statements-- I began to ask a lot of questions. Much was said at that point about how Mike NEVER tells anyone what to do. Yet I have heard from many former members that this is absolutely not true. He and the rest of the higher ups always tell people what to do, even down to telling them they shouldn't love their children so much. It is reported that there is an oppressive spirit among them, and this should not be! I have private email communication between myself and Mike where he even told ME what to do (in a rather condescending manner). If he tells someone outside the camp what to do, how much more so someone inside? He even tried to stir up trouble between Elizabeth and myself. Then when things got too sticky for him because I let him know that I have proof that he wrote the inflammatory statements about my husband, he immediately pulled out of the communication with some generic email stating that he would not be available. But others have had communication with him since then. Why won't you communicate with me Mike? You asked what you could do to make things right between us, and all I asked of you was for you to tell the truth. Why will you not do that much? ~Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.126 |
Jen, So you tried to work with Mike Peters, but he would not? Would it be ok to post the generic response you received? | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Basically, Denny somehow ended up on a list of email recipients of an email where Peters began falsely accusing someone else. I jumped in to defend this person because I knew that the things that were being said were mostly untrue. At the very least, the accusations had that particular "Indy" slant toward always believing the worst of everyone without bothering to obtain full knowledge of the truth of a situation. When I jumped in, this gave Mike the ability to switch over to lying about Denny again. He wrote long paragraph's detailing all the sins of the world, including numerous references to homosexuality. I have no idea why that always comes up. At some point, I guess when he saw that I wasn't going to confess to the things he wanted me to (because they are false accusations), he asked just what he could do to make things right between us. He said something like, so what if I lied? Let's just move on. Which seemed really out of character. And I didn't lie anyway. So I told him that the one thing I wanted from him, he had just proved he wouldn't do, which was tell the truth publicly about all the lies he's been telling about Denny and everyone else here. He denied having written that nasty write-up on Denny, but said that he could have stopped it, and should have. I told him that I know that in fact, he did write it (having proof), and asked why he lied. I never heard back except for one of those 'vacation' type emails. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Just to clarify, in case that reads differently than I intended, when I said that he said "so what if I lied", that should have been, "so what if you lied, Jen". It's a paraphrase. Peters, to my knowledge, has yet to admit to lying. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
One more point of clarification that Denny just pointed out to me. He thought that the paragraph where I mentioned homosexuality made it appear that Peters had accused him of this. He did not. He just seemed to be speaking of it in a general way. I don't think he was inferring anything, though I suppose it could be possible as he has done that before. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I was asked to post the 'vacation' type email that I received twice from Mike. I received it just after asking why he lied about being the one to have written the libelous statements about Denny, and then when I responded by asking him to explain what this means, he just sent it again. Here it is: To all, Grace and Kindness to you in the Lamb of God, Jesus of Nazareth. This mail recipient will likely be without computer access, to receive this or any mail for quite some time. Forever Thought: As Jesus has said, "Be of good cheer!" He has "overcome the world" already, and has "gone to prepare a Place" for those who have put their full weight upon Him. He has sent His Spirit as companion, friend, and guide and has not "left us as orphans." He is Faithful and True, for this Life, and the Life to come. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Jen isn't the only recipient of this "mail generated response", and it didn't come right away as they normally do. Yet, we have evidence that between the time of these "mail generated" responses received by Mike, Mike has communicated via computer as per the dates. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I just wanted to say a couple of things about why I'm even involved in this thing in the first place. I've been called the most outspoken opponent of Indy and Mike Peters. I personally believe this to be a serious fallacy. The only reason I became involved is because of the lies that were spread about my husband before we even knew this thread existed. You see, the types of lies that have been told about myself and my husband have the potential to damage our reputation, and our livelihood. When lies are told, there is precious little to stand on but the witness of those who know the truth about a person's character. I have no intention of asking some of the dear people we have known throughout the years to come on here to defend us and let the world know the truth of who we really are in Christ, because anyone who does that would be at the mercy of ChrisO's nasty attacks and lies. And frankly, I love my dear friends and family too much for that to happen. My own parents have been deeply grieved over having their daughter publicly called evil and a terrorist, and their much loved and appreciated son-in-law called all the many things he's been called. How many have said anything about my husband or myself here? Mike Peters, who knew him for a few weeks, and not all that well. Chris Olive, who by his own admission never even spoke to him. And Dan, who never even met him once. And none of these men have ever met me. I think logic would indicate that these testimonies are invalid. However, on the flip side of this, think for a moment if you will about how many people have come on here to testify about the damaging, legalistic practices in Indy. Many, many firsthand witnesses. When you have person after person telling the same story of their time with these groups with so little variation, I do believe those testimonies to be valid. I've never once asked anyone to believe that I even have a testimony about these groups -- only a testimony about my husband. So you are absolutely free to dismiss anything I say. I've never claimed to be anyone but someone who loves the Truth, and my husband. My point? Obviously, you are all free to think whatever you will about any of us on this board. Indy proponents have the tendency to tear down a person's character in order to defend their own reputation. I have no desire to see anything bad happen to Peters, ChrisO, or anyone in Indy or Columbus or anywhere else where people adhere to these teachings. Although my initial involvement was because of defending my husband, my involvement now is because I really care deeply for the many people I've talked to who are still dealing with the hurt they've experienced. My deepest desire is for the groups' repentance, the healing of those who've been hurt, and the release of those still bound in this legalism. So please, before you take the accusations of Chris and Peters at face value, perhaps you could consider these things. ~Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| workadmin New member Username: workadmin Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.2.141.33 |
Back to the topic. From the "Factnet List" at http://www.indianapoliscult.com/ : 12.Church Membership -- By Invitation Only How does one become a member? By invitation only. One becomes a member by moving near or into the enclaves inhabited by the CII with approval from Mike Peters. Membership is conferred through an assimilation process and only with permission and direction from Tier 1, 2, or 3. Tier 2 or 3 confers with Mike Peters to make sure the "house is built with wisdom" when determining the location where a new member should live. CII members live in areas where they can have daily contact with other church members; any other arrangement is an exception. Mike Peters teaches that "daily life" is essential: "daily people looking into your eyes to SEE you" and that members can "admonish one another daily". For the sake of brevity, references are too numerous to list. 35.Hard to quit Members cannot quit without loss of relationship with other members. Additionally, CII is their entire life, especially for young adults and children who have grown up in the church. Families may be divided if a member wants to leave. For spouses who may want to leave, pressure and division is exploited within the family as church members rally to emotionally and financially support a member who desires to remain. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.100.206.190 |
Hey Jen, You have a very valid and needed perspective on this situation. It has been a help for me to have people who have never been involved directly with this group see it for what it is. For someone who never bowed down to Mike's tactics and to have discernment and absolute clarity is refreshing. You have helped me just as much as my other brothers and sisters who were invloved and have been set free. God has a part for us all. About Jen's correspondence with Mike, I can say that he sent us both copy when it involved us both. It is true he did try to set us against eachother by falsely accusing Jen of making me think he was talking about me in an email he sent her. She never had to tell me he was talking about me, it was obvious from the get go! He was speaking specifically about me because I am the only person Jen knows with the story he was telling her. He told her there was someone she knew of but only knew one side of the story and then he proceeded to share some details. Later when he was caught in it (she sent it to me and others) he tries to say he was speaking hypothetically. This is a lie! If it was hypothetical how can Jen personally know the person and only one side??? I have it in writing. It may not be making sense the way I am explaining it but for me in my mind I am convinced he is a liar. I never wanted this to be. I always wanted to believe he too is deceived and convinced in his own mind that he is doing the right thing. I can no longer believe that. We all make choices. We all have a conscience. To flat out lie and not know you're doing it, I can not accept. If someone no longer knows they are lying then their conscience is seared. I have no hard feelings toward him. I have no hard feelings for anyone who is involved. I have sadness and concern. I am free from their opinions. That is a miracle. I want only good things for all of them. Jen said this (below) and I second this wholeheartedly! jen's quote: "I really care deeply for the many people I've talked to who are still dealing with the hurt they've experienced. My deepest desire is for the groups' repentance, the healing of those who've been hurt, and the release of those still bound in this legalism." Let the captives be free!!! | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Thanks, Elizabeth. Mike's very assumption that I would be trying to upset you was reprehensible. Elizabeth was already on the BCC list before he even mentioned his little story. Here's what Mike said to me that started this: let's do a "for instance" with a TRUE STORY, that you only know one side of, and you think you have it figured out already. And he proceeded to detail something that sounded quite similar to Elizabeth's testimony, but with added accusations. Then still later, after Elizabeth had jumped in (of her own volition and not at all prompted by me!) and refuted the 'facts' in his 'true story', he said to her: I was giving JEN (not you) a hypothetical, and true story... But, I don't blame you for being a little miffed if you thought this had anything to do with you, because Jen wouldn't have sent it to you if she didn't want to involve you in it. Then he said to me: YOU brought Elizabeth into this, though she is not involved in the story in any way, in order to stir her up, and you know it. There could be no other "reason". There could be no other reason? Why is there always this assumption of evil without checking into the facts? Why always attempt to tear someone down without regard to the truth? I've seen this over and over again with these people. Why assume my intentions and accuse me? I thought only God knew my motives and intentions? | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.100.206.190 |
Eventhough Jen said this above I just want to highlight this to make it absolutley clear. Mike did not know that Jen already had me on BCC with her correspondence with him way before he started giving her this "hypothetical story". All of his accusations toward her for bringing me into something or trying to stir me up were false and full of evil surmising. If he wasn't talking about someone Jen knew then why word it the way he did? And what was his point anyway??? I still don't even get it. I haven't given it much thought since then. You have to let things go and forgive or you will go crazy. I am wondering how all or this can be redeemed. How can we help? How can we bless Mike and others who have cursed us? All I can think of is to pray. And to stand for truth. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.44.88 |
Well, it looks like there is a "possibility" of factnet shutting down. I am sure Mike and Chris are feeling pretty "confident" about that. Nevertheless, our battle is not against Mike Peters or Chris or anyone of their number that might remotely have a clue that this forum exists. It's against what they "do". The bondagae, turmoil, trauma, faithlessness, joylessness, distrustfulness, anxiety, confusion, warped perception of God and such things as these that they create in people trapped in their authority that we oppose. However, I am confident that God is in control, and if he chooses to allow factnet to go down, he will continue to shine the light on the damage that Mike is doing to individuals, marriages, faith, etc. Mike, I really wish you would consider all that has been said here instead of fighting it. Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com (Message edited by baxter on June 10, 2007) | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 134.68.144.202 |
Whether or not Factnet survives (and I think it will), the GOOD NEWS is that something BIG is about to happen that will EXPOSE Mike Peters and his CULT more than ever!! Can't divulge what that "something BIG" is, but Mike knows. Keep your eyes open, it WILL be happening for all the world to see! If Mike, Chris, et al are "happy" to see the potential end of FactNet, I guess that makes them allies of the Scientologists, the group that is MOST responsible for FactNet's financial woes. Somehow, I wouldn't want to be associated with that cult, but the Peterites ARE. | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Oh good grief, allen... :-( If this so-called "big thing" you are talking about is some "magazine writer" who has been in cahoots for months already with the dark and evil cabal here on FactNot and whose only so-called "objective perspective" and "source material" has come from all of you...(!!) So what?? How does THAT "prove" anything? The authorities are well-aware that the liars and porn-watchers and people with documentable histories of mental-illness here, and child-support frauds, and (real) family splitters, and wife and child abusers, and drunkards, and women chasers, and "internet fake-ordination religionists" are the only "sources" for this article. And there are myriads of people who have read here and can see right through the handful of lives that are here as well. I warned this magazine writer a long time ago that you all weren't above potentially ruining his career in sucking him into this blackest hole of darkness, but perhaps he wasn't willing to listen. The "glitter" of the article (and very likely the trap of y'alls intense flattery in his direction, I would guess) was just too good perhaps? That's a shame. People who make their beds with you all here will find out in time, I s'pose, as they always have. Acts 5:34-39 ChrisO chris.olive@comcast.net PS. One woman in Indianapolis suggested that the handful here in this coven of hate (allen, dave, dave, tim, tim, jen, dennis) are like the deranged boys on "Lord of the Flies" -- acting big and important with their sticks and self-important fake war paint. No one reading here knows, because I've stopped posting here for the most part (and you all here certainly aren't going to come clean and volunteer it), that most of the lives here we know for a settled fact have actually gotten WORSE and even MORE PERVERTED since all this started. But there's no sense continuing on about it which is why I stopped posting here. The world here has been warned about the lies and fake lives of self-established "spirituality" -- the yeast that was pushed out of the batch and rightfully so, the present dark and evil fruit being the proof of it all. :-( | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
ChrisO, You said, "The authorities are well-aware that the liars and porn-watchers and people with documentable histories of mental-illness here, and child-support frauds, and (real) family splitters, and wife and child abusers, and drunkards, and women chasers, and "internet fake-ordination religionists" are the only "sources" for this article." Who are these people? How do you know this about all the posters on Factnet? How can your accusations be challenged if you never mention who these people are specifically? For all we know these are lies or at least exaggerated. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I posted this earlier today, and then I removed it because I didn't want to be the one to bump ChrisO's post. Chris, you can whine if you like about the 'only sources' for the article being us, but the only reason that is so (if it is) is because Mike kept dodging the writer. Mike agreed to talk to him, but then kept backing out. You said: that most of the lives here we know for a settled fact have actually gotten WORSE and even MORE PERVERTED since all this started. Why do you continually make these unfounded statements about people you don't even know, some of whom you've never even met? Are you omnipotent? Or do you have spies? How is anyone supposed to read that line you spouted without wondering why you always speak with such authority about people located all over the world? Look out world; the all-seeing, all-knowing ChrisO is watching you! Yes, there's a touch of sarcasm here. Sometimes I just have to laugh at some of the things you say. And I'll say this one more time, for the record. No one hates you, or Mike Peters, or anyone else in Indy or elsewhere. We actually care about you, Chris. We are concerned for you, and we are praying for you and your release from this bondage. ~jen joythruChrist@gmail.com Correction: I meant omniscient. (Message edited by joythruchrist on June 12, 2007) | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
In lieu of this "big thing" Cult_Fighter is all "excited" about (which is potentially a magazine article -- which I knew about entirely on my own w/o hearing about it from anyone else BTW), another friend of mine from college whom I've known and who has known me and my family for over 20 years thought it might be appropriate to provide other readers here with an email exchange that took place between this journalist and Mike Peters. (Actually, the intern of the journalist -- who was just doing his or her job -- no problem there, of course... :-)) Since it's doubtful the journalist even has room in his article for this, even if he did want to publish it, and the exchange carries with it some important information in it's original state which may or may not be conveyed in his upcoming article, my friend and I thought we would post it here for all to see. On May 31, 2007, at 2:40 PM, (intern) wrote: Mr. Peters, Hi! I'm (intern), the intern fact-checking the story that Tony wrote. I wanted to run our description of the Church In Indianapolis by you to make sure it was okay. We have that members of CII aspire to live according to the teaching of the New Testament. Also, CII members shun organized religion and, instead, worship communally in each other's homes. If that sounds good or if something needs to be changed, let me know. I will probablly be emailing you a bit later with more questions as I get further into the story. Thanks! ----------------------------- From: Michael Peters Date: June 2, 2007 8:06:32 PM EDT Subject: Re: (name of publication) Hi..... "Long time no hear" The last few days have been pretty busy with a 93-year old mother of a dear friend of 27 years (who has lived with us for four years) is on her death bed. That's had me and others at the emergency room and then in the hospital and hospice quite a lot. So, I'm back, but not really. Anyway, I'll try to answer a couple of questions quickly, in the moment I have right now. Tony and I tried to get together several times, and it never worked out. (Though I heard he startled a couple of young children at my front door when I was out of town -- and like any intelligent and "reasonably well-trained" child, they don't answer the door for strangers ). | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
For one, we've never referred to ourselves as "CII" and know nothing about that -- that is quite a "foreign" designation. We never needed a "name" since we are not an organization of any kind and are "nothing" more than a bunch of friends, of every walk of life and education and professional level and trade, and age. If you had a bunch of friends, Tony, that you went hiking with and skiing with often, would you need a "name" for them? Of course not. We don't have any "membership" and never have had any "membership" in the over-20-years we've been here. If a person is devoted to following Jesus with all their hearts, they are our friend and family, whether they live in Zionsville or Greenwood or Des Moines or Bombay. And apparently a couple hundred people a day who contact us, as well as co-workers all over the city, are comfortable that this has been our heart -- for nearly a quarter of a century now. We have no staff or salary or any such thing. We have no "building" or "service times" -- although we have many wonderful relationships with those who do have all of those things. It's not a hindrance or obstacle. The "issue" is whether Jesus is Lord, not anything "external" or such silliness as that. We are in weekly contact with many, many hundreds (often a couple thousand) of folks from every denomination and background imaginable. We have no barriers or prejudices against anyone who is in love with Jesus and wants to obey Him. We don't, and never have, "shunned" anyone. There are wonderful true-hearted Christians in every religious group. Those who are in our close sphere of relationships in this city come from many different backgrounds as well. Folks we are close to simply want to "live" Christianity (read Acts 2:42-47 and 1Corinthians, chapter 12) rather than read about it once a week. And, consequently, the "expression" of Life is not "meeting-based" or "clergy-based" -- but rather as Jesus said, "a hundred mothers, brothers, and sisters" living for Jesus daily, in the workplaces and neighborhoods. Just simply people who love Jesus and each other, who choose for themselves and families, to try to love and serve God, each other, and neighbors and co-workers in real ways, every day. | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
The world's (and religious world's) well-known statistics of "50% divorce rate" and "75% of their children with lives destroyed" (Gallop, Barna, Wilkerson, Graham, Jakes -- all with such quotes) -- this is just not acceptable, if Jesus is involved. He died, and arose, to "overcome the works of the devil" and destroy "the gates of Hell" -- not to be an emotional pacifier or cultural icon. He wants to deliver everyone from sin and death. Jesus is raised from the dead and well-able to do so, if we are desirous of listening to Him and His Word, and changing. Of course when some decide not to be part of the "attendance-based" cultural religious world (as opposed to an Acts 2:36-47 and 1Corinthians 12 Life-relationship-based church), then problems arise. There are MANY good people in the religious system -- that's just the pont. They deserve every opportunity to enjoy the truths of the Bible and Teachings of Jesus with those around them, rather than unBiblical ritual, hierarchy, and powerless superstition that has often passed for Christianity since the dark ages. It's really OKAY to be honest with what the BIBLE says about Christianity (read again, if you would, 1Cor.12 and Acts 2:36-47, and see if you have ever heard of churches living like that, without listening to the excuses for why "it doesn't apply to us" ) There seems to be automatic libel and defamation thrown at anyone who WANTS to believe and live what they Bible says, and doesn't "conform to the patterns of the world" (Romans 12:1-2) -- whether religious "patterns of the world," or otherwise. Of course THEY can do whatever they want, but are stalking and hate crimes and the equivalent of sexual harassment really necessary from Tim, Tim, Dennis, Dave, Dave, and the gang -- most we've either never seen, or haven't seen for a decade since we asked them to leave? Do they have the moral or legal right to stalk, and to boast of using YOU as part of their illegal and immoral game to try to harm the lives of good citizens and professionals, PhD's and engineers and nurses and tradesmen and children and wives and grandparents? Most would claim this is a country of "religious tolerance" and "liberty," wouldn't you agree? We pride ourselves on that, from the "founding fathers" on. But YOU just try doing something different than what culture, habit, tradition, and superstition dictate -- in the workplace or religion or politics -- and see what happens to you. It's just the nature of the shallow, prideful bitterness of much of the human race, regardless of tribe or tongue. If you are not Buddhist in Thailand, you will be persecuted violently. You HAVE to do what everyone else is doing, wherever you live, don't you? If you are not Muslim in Indonesia or Pakistan, you are in deep trouble. Your wife can be raped with impunity if you are not like everyone else, religiously. Is that what our country has come to? You will be attacked in some form or fashion in every society, or mud-hut village, if you don't do what everyone else does. Is that what we've come to? | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Likewise, if you attempt to do something different than the obviously-unsuccessful, and unBiblical, approach to "Christianity" that is ubiquitous in this country -- you WILL be crucified by those with something to lose and something to hide in their lives. In spite of how they are losing a full half of their marriages and 75% of their children, they fight maliciously and obsessively for status-quo and status regardless of who may even be killed by their bad "building" in their own families on their "watch." They will not tolerate anyone wanting anything other than the bad fruit they provably and admittedly have had. For the sake of the millions of honest and innocent people out there, one would THINK that everyone would be looking for Biblical answers, rather than slandering and making up malicious stories to salve their consciences for their own disastrous results. People REALLY need and deserve to see JESUS living as Jesus is, in their churches, and their lives and children and marriages to be brought into Jesus and His freedom, by His Truths. I know it's against culture and nature, but HIS ways, in the BIBLE, are right and good, and far better than man's, as can easily be evidenced by the catastrophes and hypocrisies in this world. As Einstein quipped, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results." A quick "sanity-check" of the form of religion of the cultures of America, Thailand, and Pakistan would have us all looking for answers by changing, not doggedly protecting lukewarmness and ritual, and accusing all who ask Biblical questions about "why." Even though the violent and accusers and pretenders are being left in peace by us, for many years now, many are so indignant others are not willing to be like them, and do what they do, that they will commit whatever "hate crimes" they believe they can get away with, as revenge. These guys have boasted for many weeks now, for example, that they (some with recent criminal records, at least three with clinical mental illness, some with terrible marriages when we met them -- all folks we tried to help) have successfully duped your publication to print the libel and defamation, concocted stories, with supposed "Jim Jones" nonsense. They provide enough "detail" in their stories, knowing things they couldn't know (such as the children you, Tony, saw as you looked through my window) that when they say they have successfully duped you into defamation, it's hard not to believe their stories. As one wife, abandoned and left homeless by her degenerate abusive husband has said, this is all designed by them to get get revenge and blackmail her into ignoring his legal child support obligations. And this a man who we asked to leave when he, as others, WANTED to be amongst us, and have been recipients of tens of thousands of dollars of gifts and homes and the like. Gratitude, eh? Go figure. "No good deed goes unpunished" as the tee shirt says. | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
When you try to help hundreds of people who are deeply troubled emotionally, occupationally, relationally, mentally (try it sometime -- and you will experience this yourselves, and the "lightbulb" will pop on), 1) sometimes they are freed from bondage of drugs and illicit activity and mental illness, and 2) sometimes they stab you in the back with a short dagger, betrayed with a kiss, after stealing your love and possessions. I guess that's okay. Jesus did that Love thing flawlessly, and it got Him killed. We try to love unconditionally, too, regardless of the risks in this "wicked and corrupt generation" (as Jesus called it) in our own flawed ways -- and how could we expect anything different than what happened to Jesus? "No student is above his Teacher. If they hated Me, they will hate you." And, primarily it was the "religious" who extracted money, fame and fortune, and power, robbing God's People of their highest and best futures (Mat.23:13) were the ones who hated Jesus the most. As the Apostle Paul said, "It is the same now." But, in spite of all, those here just want to go on quietly trying to love and care for and live out the Teachings of Jesus, the Son of God. Those who desire that, fine. Those who don't, equally fine. We have no agenda, no ambitions, we don't "recruit," we send back every check (hundreds and many hundreds of them over time) sent to us from all over the country and the world, and ask people to invest for Jesus in their own areas. Why would we DO that, while much of religion is begging for money for themselves and their structures and ambitions? Yes, we desire to stand for and live for the Truths of what Jesus taught, no matter how unpopular or uncomfortable they may be to us, or anyone else. But, that's just a choice we've made. Everyone else can do whatever they'd like to do, of course. It's SUPPOSED to be "a free country." We've got no animosity or barriers, and the proof of that lies in the many fabulous relationships we have in this country and worldwide, with no desire to "change" or "recruit" anyone, for over two decades now. When Augusta wrote us under a falsified name (Andrea) and pretended to be "a young professional woman" -- no one tried to recruit her or do anything other than encourage her to love and obey Jesus where she lived, wherever that was she claimed in her deceitful letter. No one knew it was her, but it didn't matter. She was not recruited, nor is ANYONE. | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
People we've asked to leave, as the Bible demands, later lie, re-write history, and call names -- but they WANTED to be here, and we asked THEM to leave? Tell me that makes sense. You know that has to be dishonest. But, we have no ax to grind with anyone. They can go on with their lives and we wish the best for them. We still have relationships with over 50% of those we've asked to leave, even. And, this all has nothing to do with "us" anyway. I'm not anyone. No one here claims to be anyone, or even WANTS anything from anyone. It's just folks wanting to peacefully love Jesus, and enjoy each other, as in Acts 2:36-47 and 1Cor.12. It's simple and Biblical. No show, no budget, no ritual, no hierarchy or staff, no titles, no bosses, no positions other than everyone loving Jesus as best they can. Just ordinary people with no pretense or ambition for anything other than a simple love of Jesus. And, as I said, folks all over the world from every background apparently have the same heart for "Just Jesus, pure and simple, without pomp and circumstance, bells and whistles, bubble gum, or bailing wire, or clergy or budgets, or rules, nor any dress-up for a show. Just the quality of Life of Jesus, the King of Glory, as best we can. Helping each other, our children, our children's children, and anyone else interested, as best we can. Just love and sacrifice as best we can, for the short lives we have." Not real complicated, but obviously quite hated for the "stalkers" to be calling family members and spouses trying to pit family members against each other, manufacturing lies, twisting reality, obsessive libelous lunatic internet behavior, deadbeat and alcoholic rampages, and the like. But, life goes on. Gosta go.... Headed back to the hospital for awhile, for "grandma". Sorry I didn't have time to proofread this for run-ons, fragments, typos, or general silliness. But, gotta go. And, "mike" will do, rather than "mister" something. With respect, mike www.AllAtHisFeet.com The bottom-line challange is this: Talk is cheap. You cut a bar of gold in half with a saw and it's gold through and through. You cut a brick spray-painted to look like "gold" and, if your saw doesn't break first (after they "bluff" and ask you to cut it knowing most people won't take the time nor the effort to dig into something), you'll find worthless brick on the inside. THAT'S the challange that is still out there... But most will believe the "sensation" created by the jealous, angry, vengeful Jews (Acts 17:5-8) or the angry silversmith Demetrius (or a roughly equivalent internet "wordsmith" eager to be seen as a "hero") (Acts 18:23-34) and just "go along" with whatever is said. "Demetrius said it... The Jewish leaders said it, so it must be true..." :-( The world hasn't changed much, unfortunately. :-( ChrisO | ||
| chriso New member Username: chriso Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Jen: I stopped going "back and forth" here with all the senseless "bluffing" and postulating you, Tim and Allen have been doing here for over a year now on who I know and don't know. You know good and well who I know and don't know. Regardless of what you and your husband "postulate" I do know Dennis and observed him and his character and the way he carried himself in many, many situations. Let's put it this way... I observed his "character" at the time and the way he exited Indianapolis (again, myself being the only person out of 275 that watched him leave the apartment complex) well enough to keep a look out for him for 15 years. I knew he was going to strike out in revenge based on what he was like then based on the mere fact he didn't get his way. He's been in a rage ever since, again regardless here of how he "paints" it. The only surprise to me was that it took 15 years. All the while he was being left alone by others, he was privately seething (and you with him). You came here to slander someone else who saw through you two (by your own admission), so this is STILL your M.O. as it was then. But that was predictable a long, long, long time ago, Jen. (And we don't need to go into that pathetic newspaper article thing again... It was NOT posted by anyone in the churches being persecuted here! Period!) As for the rest, again, what I've stated about who I know and don't know is 100% accurate. But again, you already know that and are still postulating, twisting, lying, and contorting here as you have been for over a year now. Let's stop playing games, Jen. I'll be more than happy to speak and provide ample evidence of who I know and don't know in the proper settings and when the proper motives are discernably involved. "Proper motives" by the way has a lot to do with what does happen and doesn't happen, regardless of how you "paint" things here regarding me or anyone else in those churches. That is the rub afterall, isn't it? These are people who aren't "duped" and that's why all this is happening. Gotta go, Jen. You don't have the right nor the power to sap me of energy needed far more in other places by endless arguing and answering all your bluffing and postulating (and false love and humility) here. :-( (And that's another reason all this has come about -- people didn't and still don't have the ENDLESS TIME for all this game playing and fake paper mache' lives, as Mike pointed out in his email to the journalist.) Take care... ChrisO | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
In regard to the older lady who is in hospice, someone has told me of the situation, and I'm sorry for the pain that is happening because of this. We'll be in prayer for the dear lady and her family. ================================================== Chris, sadly, if anyone is bluffing or postulating, it is you. You've made these sensationalistic, broad statements about former members of Indy for the past year with no facts to back them up. And you've been proven wrong on numerous occasions. For instance, you thought Allen was a former Indy member who was a wife abuser. Well, he was never a member, so how could you be right about that one? And you thought we roped Lisa into posting here, stating that she hadn't posted her email address. But you missed the fact that I had posted mine, and she contacted me. And there are numerous other examples. Can you get a handle on your own rage long enough to think things through and stop accusing people without benefit of facts? So many of your falsehoods have been clearly refuted and proven wrong right here on FACTnet. You do NOT know Denny, and you never even spoke to him, by your own admission. It's too bad that you got a totally wrong perception of who he was at that time. And clearly you have no concept of who he is now. Don't you think it a bit strange that you have obsessed over him for fifteen years, apparently working it out in YOUR mind that he's been 'in a rage' and 'seething' all that time? No, he's been living his life, growing in grace and knowledge. And why in the world would I have been 'seething'? You're simply wrong. And I'm sorry you've wasted fifteen years waiting for him to 'strike out in revenge'. Do you watch a lot of movies Chris? You are so melodramatic. Again, for the record, we never would have been involved in this if Peters hadn't written up his exaggerated story of Denny's past sins. And no, we have never 'slandered' anyone. I realize that you guys search high and low for dirt on people, and if you don't find actual dirt, you manufacture what sounds good to you. And I never said anyone from Indy posted the newspaper article. I had no problem with the article whatsoever. What I had a problem with were the lies that Peters wrote that were posted in response. Chris, I'm not a believer in psychology and I definitely don't care for Freud, but I do believe that what you're doing is called projecting. YOU are the one in a rage, and you are projecting that onto Denny. Do you want to know Denny's response to what you wrote last night? He said something like, 'pfft', and went to bed. That hardly sounds like someone in a rage. Common definition of projection: "An individual who possesses malicious characteristics, but who is unwilling to perceive himself as an antagonist, convinces himself that his opponent feels and would act the same way." Chris, I think you really need some good pastoral counseling. We're still praying for you and hoping that your heart will soften up enough to hear what God has to say to you. I'm hoping you'll put all this rage and lying behind you. We forgive you for this, and we still care about you, whether you think that's false love or not. ~jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
I have never seen someone as prideful as Mike Peters. Is he a Master builder or Master Boaster? His letter above is saturated with arrogance. May His sheep know his voice and avoid this man and his false teachings. DanRepent | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.59.46.254 |
Chris, you're really dillusional. The only people that would think what you have to say makes any sense are only those who have been brainwashed to your way of thinking (oops, I thought I was talking to Mike). The things you said to Jen are "crazy". You've been waiting 15 years for Denny to strike back. What? Do you search the web for hours wondering when someone is going to recognize the fact that Indy is a controlling, abusive, cultish group under the "headship" of Mike Peters? You said you "KNEW Denny was going to "strike out in revenge." Although anyone who looks back will see that Denny was NOT the one who even began this Indianapolis group, also Columbus, OH. It was Maleman. Then after Denny's name appeared in the dialogue that was going on...GOD sovereignly put it on Denny's heart to see if the Indy group was still kicking which only came to his mind after he had again experienced some abusive and cultish behaviour by another abuser and manipulator...Minto. Denny, having only mentioned to his wife what he intended to do, triggered Jen's curiousity and that's when SHE found the factnet discussions going on and to her shocking surprise finds a discussion going on about her husband. And THAT is how this got them involved, it wasn't about seeking revenge. They weren't specifically looking for FACTNET. They ended up on factnet like many of us who can't believe there isn't SOMETHING out there that reveals the cultish and controlling behaviour of this group headed by Mike Peters. In fact, none of the "disgruntled" ex-followers as you describe everyone who was asked to leave, even began this site. It was an outsider who witnessed cultish behaviour in his dealings with his brother who was involved with the group. And how hilarious is it that you would have the gall to say, "All the while he was being left alone by others, he was privately seething (and you with him)." HOW can you judge motives of the heart? I think you ought to take the time to read this transcript from Woodrow Kroll's radio show, you might learn something profitable: (Message edited by baxter on June 14, 2007) | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.59.46.254 |
"Satan's problem here, as I say, is he is judging motivation. One of the things we learn from Scripture is that you cannot judge motivation. It's just impossible to do that. Thomas a' Kempis once said, "Man sees your actions, but God sees your motives." That's true. A lot of times when you and I are criticized for things we do, it's not the actions that we're criticized for. It's the motivation that leads to those actions. The unfortunate thing for those who will be critical is that you can't ever fully determine motivation. That's one of those silent things that God puts in each of our hearts. So what's wrong with judging motivation? What's wrong with people trying to judge one another? Well, the Bible says there are a couple of problems with that. One, it's condemned in Scripture. That would make it wrong. 1 Corinthians 4:5. Paul says to the Corinthians, "Therefore, judge nothing before its time until the Lord comes, who will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the heart." That's Paul's way of saying, "When the Lord returns, motives will become known, but now they're dark to all of us. We just can't understand them." We have a right to judge the fruit of people's lives, but not the motivation that leads to that fruit. The second thing the Bible says that is wrong with judging motivations is when we judge the motives of other people, we are almost 100% of the time sure to be wrong. That leads to significant problems between us and other people. God knows the motivation of Job for fearing Him. Satan suspects the motivation of Job for fearing God. He accuses Job's motivation of being that God blesses him, and of course why would he not be motivated to fear God because God blesses him? The whole context here, and the whole concern Satan has here, is "You take the blessing away; You also take the motivation away." The great lesson of the Book of Job is that wasn't true. Job did not fear God because God blessed him. Job feared God because he loved God." Of course, I don't expect that we should be seeing you again since no-one has the right or power to sap or rather "zap" you of energy that is far more needed else where. Right? Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
If anyone is persuaded at all by the flowery words of Mike Peters' letter (posted above), I would urge you to look back at the "Timeline" of this thread (under "Mike PetersThread: Year #2". Feel free to follow the links to the actual postings described in the Timeline, to check it for accuracy. If you DO this, you'll notice there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence that now speaks against Mike Peters and his cult. Chris Olive, on the other hand, is asking you to believe that ALL of the following who have posted here: Maleman, Denny, Jen, First_Truth, Ultimatetruthseeker, Gottapost, Shammah, Tim D, Mike R, Tim Sz, Danielle, Elizabeth N, Threeseas, Lisa, Redm1sk, Nintai, Baxter, Anonymous, Sofia, Gene F, Rob W, myself, and a few others -- we're ALL lying about everything, while his holy Mike Peters is absolutely telling the truth about everything! Let me use a field of science that Mike (who is an engineer) knows about: Probability. I listed 22 names above who have come forward to testify about the danger and cultishness of Mike Peters and his group. Mike (and Chris) say they're ALL lying, all seeking revenge, and not telling the truth about anything. Let me speculate on how probable it is that all 22 of us could be lying. From a "Devil's advocate approach", assume that there's only a 20% chance that EACH person is telling the truth, thus GIVING Mike a 80% chance that EACH accuser is lying. The calculated probability that ALL 22 people are lying is: Pr(ALL lying) = (Pr(EACH lying))^22 = (0.8)^22 = 0.007 = 0.7% chance Sorry to bore you with a mathematical equation, but essentially, EVEN IF you could assume there's an 80% chance that each of the 22 witnesses are lying, Mike (and Chris) are asking you to believe something that has less than a 1% chance of being true -- that ALL of us are lying. Another thing that's also in the field of probability and statistics is making decisions based on contrasting probabilities. I ask you, reader, WHICH is more probable, that 22 people (and more) have come forward, told their sad stories -- but they're ALL lying? Or is it more probable that Mister Mike Peters is the one who is lying and distorting? Which is more probable? | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
The LIES in Mike's recent letter (posted by Chris) are nearly unbelievable! He says they have "no desire to recruit or change anyone". What??? What in the world is the purpose of his stupid website then? Why did his followers go out and hand out literature after the "Passion of the Christ" movie? Why do his followers hand out Mike's books to members of other churches? Why does Mike send "spies" into other churches (like mine)? -- spies who are sent to stir up dissent in other churches, openly criticizing the leadership of other churches. Why would Mike be involved in such things if not to "recruit" and build up his little empire of brainwashed followers? The other thing that really grates is the way Mike makes it clear that no one is allowed to criticize him. If you do criticize him, he accuses you of persecution, "crucifying" him and his followers, "stalking" them, "hate crimes", playing "illegal and immoral games", and he compares you with Buddhists and Muslims who kill and rape those who disagree with them. He made all of the above charges in the letter Chris posted for him. Is this clear to everyone?? Disagree with Mike and you are an immoral criminal. As has been pointed out many times, Mike Peters has interfered in many marriages, telling wives to "withhold affection" from their God-given husbands, signing emails to other men's wives with "love, mike", and even sending "xoxoxoxo" (hugs & kisses) messages to OTHER men's wives. Mike has NEVER denied these charges, nor have any of his followers (Chris, et al). But for telling the truth about Mike's marital destruction, WE are the immoral criminals. Go figure! | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
You are so right cultfighter. They say one thing but do another. They say “we don’t recruit”. Is that why at local middle school soccer and baseball games they put those all at his feet cards on peoples windshields? A friend of mine put the whole city of Westerville on alert when he found out they were going car to car. Speaking of the church in Columbus/Westerville. Maleman’s brother moved from the west coast to join the church in Ohio . Don’t tell me they don’t recruit. | ||
| cult_fighter New member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
They don't "recruit" -- or at least I'm sure they have some clever (and deceptive) parsing of the word "recruit" that lets them say "We don't recruit". Anyone who remembers the adventures of our last president may remember how insisted he had NOT had "sex" with Monica L., and that he had NOT committed adultery -- why? Because he used very specific definitions of the terms "sex" and "adultery". Because he had not had intercourse with "that woman, Ms. Lewinski", he could "technically" claim he had not had adultery with her. This was the same guy who famously said "That depends on the definition of the word 'IS'!" Using this same Clintonian parsing of the English language, I'm sure Mister Mike Peters has found some clever way to say "We don't recruit" and still go back to his followers and claim he's not lying. Clever, Mike, but we all know, you are a Master Recruiter! | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
Quote from the Indianapolis Monthly "A former member of the Columbus church set up the Web site Indianapoliscult.com, which contains signed testimonials from ex-members like Tim Szazynski and Dennis Elslager and testimony from estranged relatives outside the group." I'm going to get it for this. Dan Z., the leader in Columbus, doesn't consider me a member. I guess Indianapolis Monthly did. | ||
| wordworks2001 New member Username: wordworks2001 Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.58.127.165 |
I am the author of {i}The Ghosts of November: Memoirs of an Outsider Who Witnessed the Carnage at Jonestown, Guyana.{/i} My name is Jeff Brailey. Please google the title or my name to check my bona fides. I would like to interview former and current members cults or alternative religions as for a book I am writing. I have been writing about alternative religions for about 30 years. I approach each group I write about with an objective and open mind. I have written about the House of Yahweh, a religion based in Abilene, Texas that was billed as the "deadliest doomsday cult in America" and after living with the group for about a week, wrote an article refuting that characterization. I hope some of you who have contacts within a group will encourage them to speak with me. My email address is wordworks2001@yahoo.com and my blog is http://novemberghosts.blogspot.com | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
how many locations are there? I thought Indy was the place. I know my sister in law found them in Columbus, but I thought they all moved back to Indy at the same time. | ||
| joythruchrist New member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
There is another group in AZ, and there are people in other countries that adhere to the teachings. Maybe some former members can answer this one better? |
