| Author | Message | ||
     jcr4runner Member Username: jcr4runner Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.165.137.163 |
Wow. I was just Googling my name to see where some of my articles may have ended up recently. I just now realized that this thread existed. What do I think now? Is Contra-EN still a cult... Hmmm... I may have to rethink that one. What do I think now?? What do I REALLY think in all honesty? Is CONTRA-EN a cult? Of course, I started the CONTRA-EN CULT thread on my site just to mess with some of you guys -- the ones who really NEED to be messed with I mean. (You know who you are!) I took down the CONTRA EN cult thread after a few days (weeks?) because a friend of mine convinced me that it might be perceived as unloving. I realized that maybe I was merely mocking you and wasn't fostering a true spirit of love and reconciliation through my poor attempt at satire. But it is a legitimate question -- Is it possible to form a cult based on ex-members of a cult (real or imagined) that has its own hierarchy, mind control techniques, and strange doctrines? Now after having read all of your wonderful responses, I REALLY think you guys are a cult. You are not merely paranoid raving lunatics. No, you are an organized cult characterized by: 1. strange doctrines (i.e., homosexuality is preferable to mebership in EN) 2. a hierarchy of leaders (you KNOW who you are!) 3. complex mind control techiques that keep you from seeing that you are in a cult (but your Jedi mind control tricks won't work on me! Ha ha! So go pound sand suckers!) I promise to check back in a year after you guys have written a hundred posts in which you say how you feel animosity toward no one and then go on and on and on about what a loser I am and about how Bob Weiner pays me to torment you. (Or was it the Church of Scientology that pays me? Or was it Eric Holmberg!? I forget. I have to stop co-mingling the "lap-dog" funds I guess.) Then the conversation will abruptly stop when someone begins to start some intelligent dialogue on whether posting personal attacks on the Internet is biblical. In any case, it was great fun to read all this. Since I have no life, I really need to feel self-important by having ex-cult cult devotees devote over a hundred posts to me. Thanks for the free entertainment! | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2178 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.193.211.217 |
Or was it Eric Holmberg!? You blew it there I think your J-- Mossman. Were smarter then you just remember that.  Now why don't you sell out America to China for big bucks, lawyer boy. | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
who are you? are you an EN leader? a member? obviously you have no idea what a cult is... this means you can possibly be an EN leader... funny how many trolls are coming over here lately... dont feed him! | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 12.172.96.200 |
Frankly JCR4, though I doubt you and I agree on much regarding EN, you make a very good and extremely valid point that the most prolific posters here would be wise to ponder. I have noticed that there are people here that practice the same behaviors that they accuse Maranath of, except in reverse. If one dares to disagree with their liberal anything goes attitude, they proceed to rebuke and correct them in much the same manner as Maranatha. Those "in control" gang up on and shames the offending person who dares to disagree with their view point. The postings are now mostly in-fighting, name calling, and arguments over doctine having nothing to do with Every Nation or Christianity. It is unfortunate because there was a time when this board was serving a critical role in exposing the cult like behaviors of the still active EN. Many here, including myself, will attest to the fact that this board helped us to see and understand the subtle cultish tactics of EN. There was a time, prior to the ex-Maranatha crowd taking over the board, that new posters were showing up almost daily. Most of them would express that they had been lurking for some time before posting and would state that they were thankful that they found FactNet to help them understand what they had been envolved in. Sadly, this seldom happens any more. Now, I only skim the board every few days for news of relevence. I look for post from ULYankee, Dust, or a few other names I seldom see anymore. I also look for new posters though they seldom show up anymore. Beyond that, I have no use for what this forum has turned in to...a chat room. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2181 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.193.211.217 |
jia/robert I think it is Jon Mosely mocking us. | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1949 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.217.192 |
I would not worry about JCrunner. He probably has not read the EN's Communique. There would always be people like that who would live in denial. I know a few, communique was sent to them. Even that those VCF pastors said that its fraud when its coming from the EN's headquarters. When those VCF pastors said that, defending EN, people left almost a hundred in a week. by the way JCrunner, The EN's communique CONFIRMS ALMOST EVERYTHING that was posted here. And thats coming from EN's headquarters. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2182 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.9.67 |
OOPS big Boo, Boo like normal! I apologize Jon Mosely but you use to bring up Eric Holmberg. I think jcr4runner is actually Jay Rogers from the Forerunner. He is obviously upset because I insulted the Forerunner along with the Hatter the other night. For EN lurkers that is the old Maranatha mandatory newspaper. This has been getting Jay upset all day long and then he posted all over this site. Look at this thread it has got to be Jay right?. Jay is upset because I said the Forerunner was boring (Hatter said it was dreary) and should be on the bottom of a bird cage at the factnet Cuckoo board, a board populated by ex MCM/EN members (we had a little war like baptists and it was born). I also said I wanted to have Bob Weiner force Tik to buy my pile of old Forerunners. Look Jay you have to agree with this? Popular Mechanics is far more interesting. Look Jay you talked about a hierarchy of leaders in your post above and you said you know who you are. I am absolved because no one considers me a leader. Hatter is the leader and he should have told me to show respect for the Forerunner. What am I suppose to say? you are launching multiple attacks on the EN board because I and Hatter bad mouthed the Forerunner??? This is insane I know you loved the Forerunner but I actually dropped a Big Gulp (giant 7-11 soda) handing it out. This still upsets me Jay. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2183 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.9.67 |
Jay R. scroll 80% of the way down this link and you can catch me and the Hatter talking about the Forerunner. It is around the section I tried to repent for bashing Carman but somehow I ended up bashing him even more. This is a tough place I will eventually get this repentance, forgiveness thing figured out. By the way I like Hatter and Krems both. | ||
| philiprosenthal Advanced Member Username: philiprosenthal Post Number: 765 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 198.54.202.250 |
Jay - with respect to your statement: "1. strange doctrines (i.e., homosexuality is preferable to mebership in EN)" A number of those who post on the FactNet EN thread are not Christians. Some of these don't even pretend to be Christians. This is an unregulated discussion. The other posters have no control about who posts here and who does not. I have spoken against homosexuality repeatedly and hope others do also. There is another forum www.everynationreform.com which is regulated. If you want to be part of a regulated forum that sifts out junk, rather post there. For the record, homosexuality is serious sin. Those who think they can practice this way and also be Christians are deceiving themselves and others. I call on them to repent and stop such behaviour - or if not, then at least not call themselves Christians. With regard to the allegation of a hierarchy of leaders - no. There is no hierarchy here, but there is a network of people and some have more influence than others. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2187 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.9.67 |
philip is your name Fritz? I do agree with a whole bunch of what you say not all but a whole bunch. | ||
| philiprosenthal Advanced Member Username: philiprosenthal Post Number: 767 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 198.54.202.250 |
No, my name is not Fritz. My name is Philip. I post here using my real name. I have also posted my contact details. There is nothing secret about my involvement here. With regard to Jays comment about the ethics of posting personal attacks on the internet, I would argue that those who use this forum are obliged to follow the Biblical procedures of Matthew 18. I have done that. I have spent many hours in meetings with EveryNation leaders - including with multiple others as witnesses; hundreds of pages of correspondence and gave about four years for the organisation to repent before I posted on the internet. I exhausted all other alternatives before I posted here. I have followed Biblical procedure. My posting here was a last resort 'Tell it to the church'. I also haven't posted every bit of dirt that I know, but only that which I feel is necessary for people to know and what can contribute constructively towards the reform of the organisation. I came to the conclusion that EveryNation does not have channels for communication and remedy of grievances internally. I have also expressed my willnessness to correct any statement I have made which is shown to be false. I do not encourage others to post here ad-hoc all their grievances without following such procedure. I hope that others don't just see me posting here and then also post but without taking the precautions that I did. Slander is sin. A lot of what is posted on FactNet is slander. We will all be judged by God - not only EN leaders. We should fear God and try to avoid committing such sin. I think that Steve Murrell is taking steps towards improving this situation, but it is not really fully sorted out yet. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2189 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.9.67 |
I know your name is Philip but at cuckoo we discovered a moderator named Fritz read his rules. People went off topic a bit on a thread but not really and he barged in and said I will ban you from this site if you do not obey me. Read to the very end of the thread on the latest link. It is a joke Philip you being Fritz. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 438 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
The Forerunner was to MCM as TASS was to the former Soviet Union -- a tool for controlling the masses. Speaking of tools, welcome back jcr4. Grow up dude! Your points are immature, absurd, untrue and prove nothing. For once I agree with Philip. There is no agreement here about your first point -- which in fact, proves the opposite of what you are suggesting. Unlike MCM/MSI/EN, we don't all have to believe and accept the same doctrines to be able to post on Factnet about an abusive cult. Most of us speak from personal experience. Your calling us a cult is laughable and frankly smacks of Forerunner-esque manipulation. Have a nice life. 40 -- I almost spewed my coffee over your Big Gulp story. Funny. I dropped an entire Whole Foods large smoothie (Orange-A-Peel)recently, but there were no Forerunners involved. (Though I do still have a few collecting mold in my basement somewhere. I get them out and read them whenever I doubt I was in a cult.) Not sure I will ever get over losing that smoothie. It would be my pleasure to buy you a new Big Gulp. I think you can even get them now in 42 or 60 ounces! | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 3318 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
There was a time, prior to the ex-Maranatha crowd taking over the board Forward, it is amazing to me that you rarely post, but it is usually some major rebuke because you don't like the way things are going on Factnet. Month ago, your same argument was solved by many of us leaving the EN site and finding another place to post. I believe this was your suggestion. Please look over the EN site and find how many former MCM folks (the group in your mind) have posted on the EN threads in recent months, many rarely post here, leaving it open for what you wanted. If all you are interested in is EN, DON'T READ other areas! It is obvious that you have, by the nature of your post. That you would think a group of people have taken over the board is simply ridiculous. It is a message board, open to anyone. For those areas of Factnet that you do not like, simply do not read them. I have no interest in the AA threads for example, and have never read them. Factnet is a big place. As for discussions on things unrelated to EN, most are conducted on thread sites totally off the EN site. The EN threads are there for you to have and to hold. Your problem is, you don't get in here and post unless you feel you or yours has been personally attacked, when in fact, it is simply a differing of opinion. The EN threads are there for you to develop as you please, as this is what you wanted. I won't get into a wizzing match with you over this, I just simply disagree with you. That's all. | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 12.172.96.200 |
Matt, I did not name any names in my last post so you've identified yourself in what I said. To date I have made 1 post on Cukoo's Nest amounting to 12 words...I usually don't even read there, much less post. In the last 60 days you've made over 100 post on the EN boards. It makes me said that you always feel attacked by me but fail to understand my point and hear my heart. This board has become Toxic. Men who should know better are attacking and shaming boys less than half there age for doing what they themselves did 20 years ago. They make fun and name call when they should be loving and praying for those that are immature. And you feel "attacked" by a few of my 193 post. BooHoo, cry me a freakin river! How many of your 3318 post have added something of value to the discussion? How many times have you made fun of Dust for simply bringing a spirit of repentance, humility, and compassion to the board. You of all people should know better Matt. All of your big talk is just a sham! It is Easter. I want to be focusing on what Christ has done us, not this. I think it is time for a FactNet fast. God Bless! | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1283 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Remember the hand that wrote in the sand, It was nailed to a cross, so we wouldn’t stay lost The hand that heals and beckons freedom The message it yields, is not getting even Throwing rocks and calling names Just nails that hand to the cross again The blood on the hand can cover your hate And that blood that covers is the true meaning of grace You cannot rid yourself of this hate Only His blood can dissipate Trade your neighbor’s blood from your hands For the blood from the hand who wrote in the sand I know you just picked up a rock You’re going to respond, your going to defend, But think again, if today was your end Whose blood will cover, who's blood will mend The stuff that’s sit inside your heart Choose Jesus, not the one who thinks he’s smart Who causes strife, and a hateful life of choosing sides and great divides Don't be taken by the author of lies Jesus said forgive, and love This is how you reach above He offers it now if on your knees you will bow Don’t try to be right, that's not the light Remember the hand that wrote in the sand | ||
| philiprosenthal Advanced Member Username: philiprosenthal Post Number: 770 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 198.54.202.250 |
Guys. Be careful before anyone attacks JcrForerunner. It is not fair to judge the children for the sins of their fathers. So just because Bob Weiner may have abused some of you and Jay may be a spiritual son of Bob Weiner does not mean that Jay is in the same category. From looking at his web site Jay seems to be doing good work so I would argue don't attack him. Attacks should be precise and to the point - not just a generalised attack on anyone with a Maranatha history. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 3323 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
Matt, I did not name any names in my last post Then stand up and name them. I am an obvious character. And do what you said you were going to do last summer: "If they build it they will come" The general chat section of the EN threads have died. My posts have been on subjects on deliverance, etc, that is a pertinent subject to EN. You had the perfect opportunity to start new threads and build the EN factnet area as you wanted. Did you? With that, I will leave you to do as you please. You use the dramatic word "attack" when people simply disagree. I don't feel attacked by you. | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 12.172.96.200 |
I'm sorry Matt, I mis-quoted you...you used the word "rebuked" in your previous post, not "attacked". I don't build threads or make post for fun. I post when I have something relevant to say. If everyone did this, then this would still be a helpful forum for those looking for information. Dust has the right idea. It all goes back to what Jesus has done for us. I'd rather focus on that. The posters all post, venom spewing You think you will be Krems undoing But remember the hand That wrote in the sand And pray our hearts He'll be renewing Mine included | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 3325 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
BooHoo, cry me a freakin river! // It all goes back to what Jesus has done for us. I'd rather focus on that. Sounds like it. Since the exodus of most MCM's (me not included, I know I post here) EN Factnet has been left to develop as you wanted. I leave it with you and whoever you wish to do that. Phillip himself started a thread recently entreating many to come back. Few have. Please don't use the reason that the EN board has become toxic. Because I take to task a man who tells disabled people/children that they are lacking in faith? This was MCM in its purest form. This boy as you call him is a man. Other areas on Factnet may not suit you, but the Cuckoo is a separate site like other major Factnet sites now. Many make the Cuckoo look like nursery school books. Sorry, seems like the nature of a message board. Maybe it is not for everybody. With that, I leave you where I should have; you do your thang, I'll do mine. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 3326 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
Be careful before anyone attacks JcrForerunner Phillip, I appreciate your concern here. I made a few statements about what the Forerunner was like to me in 1980 or somewhere around there in Auburn. It was dreadfully boring and the hippies and frats threw the thing all over campus. Huge piles of litter! I never knew Jay and couldn't pick him out of a lineup. All my best to him if he is doing the Lord's work. | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1447 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
Excuse me for changing the topic, but here are some quotes from those testifying about their experience in the EN School for World Missions (Manila) here and here: “Some of my mindsets about ministry, discipleship and leadership, were corrected and adjusted.” "David advises those praying about entering full-time ministry 'to always remain humble before God, desiring to love, please and glorify Him above all things; and to be transparent and accountable to the leaders God has placed above you.'" "My hope was also for the school to help develop my leadership skills and change my character." Some of the former MCMers who hang out over in the Cuckoo's Nest might unfortunately find quotes like these somewhat familiar... blessings, in Christ's great Love, ContraENCult | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 440 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
If jcr posts such ridiclous nonsense, he deserves whatever criticism comes his way. Call it an attack if you want. And, if he still publishes under the name "The Forerunner," I believe he deserves to be linked to its founding/MCM. If he cared, I would think he would publish under a different name. It mattered so much to the EN founders to distance themselves from MCM that they have changed their name three times! Funny, though, after all these years they still seem to be the same. He does too. If you consider that attacking, so be it. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 441 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
P.S. I wasn't going to "go there," but I must. I just can't take seriously anyone who would use the fact that openly gay people (i.e., me) -- and others who do not fit into their nice view of how a Christian should be -- post here as a reason to dismiss the board altogether and also use that as an excuse to label it as a cult. Words are inadequate to describe how twisted and narrow that is. I'm sure many here would rather we not deal with this and other tough issues, but the reality is that those of us who have experienced the abusive nature of MCM/MSI/EN are all in different places in our lives at this time. Sorry if that offends jcr or "discredits" this board in some people's eyes. To me, it sounds an awful lot like the Pharisees trying to discredit Jesus for hanging around sinners and tax gatherers. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. We are all sinners saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. (Message edited by freedom43 on April 04, 2007) | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
??? what the heck is this ??? | ||
| mcmstaff78 Advanced Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 966 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.224.82.48 |
I'm going to agree with freedom on this one. While she and I have had a pretty intense discussion on these issues, I have no qualms about her being here, participating or expressing her views. How can there be any kind of cultic "mind control" going on a forum that lets both me and freedom be members and speak? This is not a Christian forum, or a particular brand of christianity forum. Lot's of different folks express lot's of different opinions. That it is not uniform and controlled is exactly what makes it not cultic, unlike the Forerunner forum and anything MCM/MSI/EN. I don't think I ever called for the banning or shunning of freedom and I don't think she's called for me to be banned or shunned. Seems pretty uncultic (and uncontrolling) to me. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 442 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
mcm -- Exactly! | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1288 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Freedom, please know that what Forword was talking about had absolutely NOTHING to do with being gay. NOTHING. There are not dots to connect there in what he was talking about. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 443 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
Hey Dust -- I didn't think so. I was not really responding to Forward in my posts but others. Regardless, thanks for the clarification. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 444 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
Oh, and Dust, even if he were, that would be okay. Folks are entitled to post their differing opinions and often do. That's the beauty of this forum. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1290 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
No, it would NOT be okay....I'm not going to have a husband that can't have dinner with our hairdresser,  | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2192 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.192.70.227 |
Actually I think jcr4runner is having fun and laughing. Philip if you go to his site he archived all the old Bob and Rose Weiner articles and he does promote dominion/theonomy doctrines at his site. He has or had multiple indirect ties to MSI/EN so Jay is a little more then just a sympathetic ex member. Freedom I will take you up on the Big Gulp offer. For one split second when a wonderful large beverage like your smoothie hits the ground. It is a horrible feeling. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2202 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.170.202 |
forword I think what happened to this board is that Bill Mack left. Bill Mack provided an interesting foundation for a lot of cool theological debates (whether people agreed with Bills premises or not) Bills threads went off onto a lot of unique tangents, kind of stream of consciousness stuff. That is when we had a lot of new visitors. Bill I really think you let Satan win by leaving. Environments change and you just have to learn to adapt. If you come back and start a thread, all you have to do is state at the start of it no chat room dialog please but you are free to let the conversation meander where it will in the pursuit of truth. You know if you start a thread you kind of own it. Philip has his style which has its merits and your style of thread had great merits to. Things have calmed down. A Bill Mack thread today can be the same type of creation of a few years back. So I think you should come back Bill. Everybody else sets up posting rules you can to. | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1448 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.107.86 |
[shout over the chatter, lol] Helloooo unknown!!! "what the heck is this?" I think you know. Same old, same old--maybe it's not despotic Shepherding like some of us in the States have witnessed or experienced, but even with kid gloves on or with the best of intentions it's STILL SHEPHERDING. From the mouths of (EN's) "babes." I feel bad for them as like most of us here at one time or another, we were in the same or similar position, spouting EN platitudes (many of which had once been MCM platitudes), not having ANY CLUE that ANYTHING was wrong!!! I praise God every day that He led me out of that into true freedom in Christ. And I praise God everyday that others have as well. Though I can't forget my brothers and sisters still caught in the deception that it's EN's job to make "adjustments," "corrections," or to "change" one's "character." Are the "leaders God placed above you" transparent and accountable to you too? Or are they exempt from that because they are "delegated authorities?" Or is that someone else's job to keep them accountable, someone further up the pyramid like a prophet or apostle? (Or in the currently named EN structure, a board member?) Jesus Christ alone is the Head of the Body of Christ. We are ALL accountable to Him, directly. We are not "cleansed" by spiritual leaders. We are cleansed by His precious Blood. We are made a new creature in Christ not by ENLI or advanced EN ministry training but by the Holy Spirit living in us and by the Word of God. In contrast, last night my husband made a personal observation to my current pastor about something he is currently struggling in a way that might not have been accepted in an EN context because, well, the pastor isn't supposed to be "accountable" to the laity but the other way around. It was totally in love and came out of the fact that there is MUTUAL RESPECT for EACH OTHER as BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST. I wasn't part of this conversation but heard and witnessed... and in my heart praised the Lord that He has placed us in a local expression of His body where we are all kings and priests in Him, where as Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you." | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 445 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
Ulyankee -- great example of how the "transparency" in EN runs one way. To me, it seems EN leaders look into your lives (victory weekends for example), expecting you to confess every sin or shortcoming to them -- so they can use it to control you. For EN it seems like a formula. God does not require a mediator to forgive our sins and transform us, but can use brothers and sisters in Christ, per your example. | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 446 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
I spent some time reading articles on the Forerunner website this morning. In particular, I was interested in the articles on Reconstructionism. Do folks think EN's mandate "to reign and rule" is in keeping with that teaching? | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1092 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Did not have time to read anything but the first four entries but the poster is Jay Rogers who "owns" the slumber inducing forerunner. Obviously Jay is kidding either that or he is seriously delusional. I would suggest that he read some of Margaret Sangers work on Sociological Cults, but in fairness I will answer his charges 1. FACT is what it is and as advertised. ANyone who posts here will see clearly defined rules- and knows exactly (or should know) what they are signing up for. Unlike MCM and EN which try to hide their true nature until the person is "in". Sanger, or someone, has a great peice on why the Marines are not a cult? Authority, conformity, commitment to a cause that calls for the sacrifice of individual goals to that of the group...the difference- when a recruit signs up for the Marines THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GETTING INTO; the Marines are careful to spell out a) you could get killed b) you are at our beck and call c) you will make these sacrifices d) at the end of your term YOU CAN LEAVE! 2) FACT IS FREE- you do not have to contribute- and you can walk off in a huff without losing your salvation, self respect, livihood etc. Lets face it some "formers" and I have plenty of "hate mail" from them because of my blog cannot face the fact (which is a very tough thing to face I admit) that many years of their lives may have been wasted or spent in the service of an ole fashioned sociological cult born in the minds of Rose and Bob Weiner. I understand why Jay feels like he does- but it does not alter the fact that the forerunner was like Pravda- supporting a terrible and bad cause. Tikie | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1093 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Did not have time to read anything but the first four entries but the poster is Jay Rogers who "owns" the slumber inducing forerunner. Obviously Jay is kidding either that or he is seriously delusional. I would suggest that he read some of Margaret Sangers work on Sociological Cults, but in fairness I will answer his charges 1. FACT is what it is and as advertised. ANyone who posts here will see clearly defined rules- and knows exactly (or should know) what they are signing up for. Unlike MCM and EN which try to hide their true nature until the person is "in". Sanger, or someone, has a great peice on why the Marines are not a cult? Authority, conformity, commitment to a cause that calls for the sacrifice of individual goals to that of the group...the difference- when a recruit signs up for the Marines THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GETTING INTO; the Marines are careful to spell out a) you could get killed b) you are at our beck and call c) you will make these sacrifices d) at the end of your term YOU CAN LEAVE! 2) FACT IS FREE- you do not have to contribute- and you can walk off in a huff without losing your salvation, self respect, livihood etc. Lets face it some "formers" and I have plenty of "hate mail" from them because of my blog cannot face the fact (which is a very tough thing to face I admit) that many years of their lives may have been wasted or spent in the service of an ole fashioned sociological cult born in the minds of Rose and Bob Weiner. I understand why Jay feels like he does- but it does not alter the fact that the forerunner was like Pravda- supporting a terrible and bad cause. Tikie | ||
| freedom43 Intermediate Member Username: freedom43 Post Number: 447 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 129.33.119.12 |
Great post, Tikie. Jay may have been kidding, but his belief system is no joke: http://forerunner.com/theofaq.html His stated views represent the worst of MCM's beliefs and practices in a number of areas -- which seem to serve as a foundation for EN's "reign and rule" views. His theonomy/theocracy taken to it's logical end would result in a Taliban-esque dictatorship with those who disagree with him being "silenced and punished according to God's Law-Word," including capital punishment for those who violate "moral law." (He doesn't believe in jail sentences.) So, folks -- while Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." It seems Mr. Rogers and company would have Ted Haggard, Bill Clinton -- and me and millions of others -- put to death. I certainly don't lump myself with Ted or Bill and would (with all humility of course) put myself up against anyone as a model citizen and model American any day of the week. All that being said, I believe he is entitled to his beliefs. Apparently, he does not believe I am entitled to mine. Excuse me while I wretch. | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
yeah... and i know someone at least, who will be in the underground and fight against this crap! | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1095 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Uly:My hope was also for the school to help develop my leadership skills and change my character." Tikie: I thought it was CHRIST who changed us...yech!!! Hey Uly- got some stuff coming up on the ole blog (long time coming I know but what is coming next has been complicated to say the least-) could you e-mail me- I need to run some things by you Maranathaoriginal@yahoo.com | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
hey guys - i need to remind you, that your salvation is on stake if you dont send your tithes to my bankaccount within 3 days...  cheese R_Unkown (wannabe-apostle of the FactNet-Cult)... | ||
| jcr4runner New member Username: jcr4runner Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.165.137.163 |
Hey guys. I came back to read what you were saying about me about ten and half months early. I like it. The response wasn't the hornet's nest I thought it would be. About half of the comments actually make SENSE! Except for the paranoid rants about Reconstructionists being the Taliban that is.  But on the whole, not bad for a bunch of former cult members. Yes, I WAS Kidding. My poor attempt at humor. You guys aren't a cult -- I don't think you EVER were part of a cult -- even though some of you still sound like you are/were. It looks like you are making some progress with this healing and forgiveness thing. I'll check back again this summer. BTW: How's John Jones doing. I have a funny story about him. Hi John! Do you remember the time when you tried to a cast a demon out of me at Rose Weiner's house. You said it wouldn't come out of me because it was a demon that kept me from seeing that I had demons. Jeepers! I hope I still don't have that!!!! Now someone will probably tell me that I shouldn't have posted that because I didn't follow all the steps of Mat. 18. But I don't hold a grudge and in fact, I just thought (and still think) that John was wacked out of his head in the '60s some time and he hasn't yet come back to earth. Some of this "charismatic chaos" stuff is just funny! You have to admit! That's yet another poor attempt at humor, but this was a true story. The point being don't be unmerciful toward control freaks if you yourself are one. BTW: I am in a Reformed church and loving it, but I still pray in tongues at times. Ocalia bashondai. Interpretation: Get over it! | ||
| john_r_jones New member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Jay, I'm terribly sorry for that in all seriousness it was a case of stupidity on my part in the extreme. John | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Jay, Was that really necessary? We have ALL made very foolish mistakes bowing down to serve a very foolish MOVEMENT and very foolish MEN. Was your story told to promote humor, some kind of SHAME-BASED payback, or are you trying to join here? What's the motive? There are hundreds, no thousands of foolish stories to report and this is the reason we are here...to stop the foolishness and break free. Maybe I'm misinterpreting here....but it didn't seem to be something to edify or encourage, but more to shame. | ||
| 40days40years New member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.149.101 |
Jay WHY NOW? I myself did some incredibly stupid things even after I left based on what I learned in Maranatha. JRJ did what he did obeying the teachings of Bob and Rose and you have been their chief scribe and archiver for years, right? Think about that and by the way I have enjoyed talking to you in the past, especially about end time stuff but painting JRJ as some acid hippy from the 60's who is still wacked, is that necessary? Keep that attitude up and you can be a top ruler in EN. Why do you like your new reformed church? | ||
| john_r_jones New member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Actually I think it is necessary, if in airing something I did toughtlessly or foolishly brings healing then burn up the keyboard. We'll all be the better-off for it, it gives me a chance to personally take resposibility for a wrong done and hopefully move on in life. Just today I listened to Wishbone Ash, Argent-God gave Rock and Roll to ya, and Brewer and Shipley-One toke over the line sweet Jesus Jonesee (Message edited by john r. jones on May 15, 2007) | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Okay JRJ, if it was meant for healing...... | ||
| john_r_jones New member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Dust, I can't judge motives, so anymore even if something isn't centered in a "pure" motive and in life it rarely is, I can only deal with mine. Ok? Jonesee | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
I'm sorry, this is a very confusing place. Let me scratch the above intitial post and reword what I would like to say. I would feel very sad and ashamed to be reminded of something I did at the teaching and preaching of Every Nation...there are things I want to forget, that I've repented of, that now seem ridiculous, and I would hope that any poster would think about this before posting and ask God for themself: are they helping to heal or harm, not just who they are responding to, but also the many readers... I pray that the believers here will allow the Holy Spirit's counsel and I pray that readers here would find healing and comfort and even self-forgiveness. I think that most people here have had or will have to forgive themself for being a part of something they now denounce. I know this was true for me. And SELF-FORGIVENESS was a key for me to move past the experience. I meditate often on "love keeps no records of wrongs." And, I'm still "in process." Just Dust | ||
| john_r_jones New member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
From Wikipedia-Brewer and Shipley, "In 1989 they performed a one-off gig and a short time later began writing together again, producing two albums in the 1990s, SHANGHAI (1993) and Heartland (1997). They have continued to tour together, part time, since the '90s. At present, Michael Brewer lives outside of Branson, Missouri. Tom Shipley makes his home in Rolla, Missouri, where he is on the staff of the "University of Missouri - Rolla campus (a/k/a Missouri University of Science & Technolgy as of 1/1/08). He is manager of their distance learning, video, audio, and other special video productions for the university." And on an unrelated note: Dust, I hear what yer sayin'! Jonesee | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Jay, I didn't know you, but I did have to pick up the Forerunner that was thrown all over the Auburn campus. I hope you received healing from your attempt at sarcastic an caustic humor aimed at a truly gentle soul who has provided a great deal of insight to me and others. Who wasn't an idiot back then? We were led by a bunch of them. Oh. Get over it? I am getting a word...whostolamyhonda...Get over yourself. You are not that important. You start a highly volatile thread and get about 50 posts. Big azz deal. We'll post 50 a night on the Nest arguing about beer. Sorry Jonesee, I know you ain't happy with me, but sometimes I still want to cut off an ear or two. | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
We hear ya Dust, you are much nicer than me. | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Matt, we really need to nickname you PETER..... | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
a demon that kept me from seeing that I had demons. Just a clever and creative way of pointing out denial in the language understood within the subculture.  | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Matt, we really need to nickname you PETER..... Hahahaha! You obviously have seen my long history of running at the mouth, and then going, "Whoops I did it again." But you know, every once in a while I just have the urge to get snarky (thanks J2), especially with someone who presents themselves as Ubersaint and then cuts loose with a sarcastic montage towards a kind and humble friend. Once again, I ain't learned anything from the thunder bunny's lesson in how to deal with this kind of thing, but thanks for the example in forgiveness anyway Jonesee. One day it will stick. Jay, don't forget Rose's purse and briefcase. She'll be plenty mad. Whoops I did it again. Sorry Brittany. | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Just a clever and creative way of pointing out denial in the language understood within the subculture. WOW! Exactly! And in normal lingo: DENIAL! | ||
| flo1151 New member Username: flo1151 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 74.160.6.148 |
John, If you need some help with Jay's demon let me know. I'd like to take a crack at it. I think you were on target. A demon that keeps you from seeing you have a demon. That kind comes out only by fasting and prayer. I have been on a diet you know so it should come out squeeling like a little girl. Dust, I have got demon stories that makes that seem like a pat on the cheek. Also Dust you say you have gone to nine churches in two years. We went to two churches in one day. We went to the first one that started at like 10am after 30 minutes knew this was a waste. All of us got up and left, the pastor came running after us in the parking lot to make sure we weren't offended and then he probably saw us as we drove directly across the street to check out the next church which started at 10:45. . That was probably the height of charismatic butterflydom. Glad you found some place to call your church, hope it all works out. flo BTW Jay thanks for the "Get over it" it sure warms my heart. Which reformed church do you go to? I'll be sure to cross that off my list. | ||
| dust New member Username: dust Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Flo, You have a way with words that makes me laugh and cry simultaneously. butterflydom Great word..may we never lose the abiity to fly in freedom with Christ. The reformed church was scratched off my list fairly early.....after seeing it's fruit.... P.S. Demon story..I was told I had a deaf and dumb spirit which prevented me from speaking in tongues. Follow the theology here... a demon who has no power over my mouth, but has power over the Holy Spirit. | ||
| 40days40years New member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.25.117 |
Well when you think about it this thread is pretty funny. It is like I say to Jay that JRJ is not a space cadet hippy and JRJ pipes in and says well actually I was just listening today to One toke over the line sweet Jesus. Then Flo pipes in and says that JRJ's discernment was probably right about Jay. I mean would'nt it take a demon to prevent you from seeing that you might be under the control of a demon ? How else could you devote so much time to the Forerunner 20 years later? I mean I bet many in the upper realms of EN have a demon not allowing themselves to realize EN has a powerful principality assigned to it and many in false religions are blinded by demons even though I categorize Maranatha as a messed up church. SO JRJ was right after all.  this is crazy man. | ||
| 40days40years New member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.191.25.117 |
Jay are you in a reformed Maranatha/MSI church? What does reformed mean anyway? They threw Phil B. out or something? I guess that Anne Arbor church would be classified as reformed too? I don't know in the mid eighties I thought my MCM church was reformed. Just like today there are differant gradations of strychnine. Strychnine light or strychnine heavy. | ||
| coppertree New member Username: coppertree Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.130.102.191 |
Hi All Never catching up ...he, he 40 too funny .. About Jay reformed church...he, he thanks} | ||
| john_r_jones New member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
I think we were all in a deformed church in MCM. Jonesee | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.99.130.74 |
40, Reformed generally refers to a theological tradition based in the post-Luther Reformation, i.e. Calvin and Zwingli. | ||
| 40days40years New member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 65.54.154.152 |
Thanks copper. mcmstaff, oh no your saying we have another Calvinist in our midst. Actually this is a test message. Could not post on factnet earlier and I thought the worst I though that factnet took me seriously or Jay had used his master computer skills to do me in but I am back in action or inaction. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 44 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.194.184.88 |
Better a Calvinist than a Zwingliest (?). Zwingli, IMO, was just one step removed from a Gnostic (okay, maybe half a step!). | ||
| coppertree New member Username: coppertree Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.165.248.21 |
Catching up, some, Ok 78 I will bite----where does drinking from the poisoned well of Luther happen and to whom? } | ||
| dust Junior Member Username: dust Post Number: 31 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
oh boy, copper that will require a thread of its own.... | ||
| xman3 Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.59 |
Well, its been awhile since I posted a factnet mini novel so here I go again. My apologies to all ahead of time. A 2 part rambling post to follow. Jay: It looks like you are making some progress with this healing and forgiveness thing. I'll check back again this summer. We will be eagerly awaiting your summer analysis because we really value your opinion. Hopefully you also will undergo a little introspection yourself during this time and find out why you feel the need to post with such an attitude of superiority, though I understand that this is your Christian response to the fact that you were offended by some of what was said.. I was no different than many in my view of factnet when I first posted. I though that it was filled with a bunch of whiny babies who couldn't get over the past. I didn't jump in and say that right off the bat, but it was pretty apparent to those who responded. Sounds like that’s your general view. I guess one difference was that no one indicted me or anything I am doing in particular, so I had no chip on my shoulder. Unlike some of me fellow posters and friends here at factnet, I think its pretty good you are continuing with what you believe you are called to. I expressed this earlier, and I reiterate it now. I have no problem with the forerunner except that I found it personally irrelevant to what I’m involved with, but a good thing for those more oriented to that area of life. You must remember, we were forced to subscribe to the thing and pass it out all over campus etc… whether we wanted to or not so it doesn’t exactly bring back fond memories. Good luck with your ministry though. I wish you the best. My suggestion to you is that you hang around awhile and get to know some of the people and what they believe now, rather than your past views of them. There are a huge variety of viewpoints here and it is not right to lump everyone together, and actually hard to lump any 2 of us together if you would actually take the time to listen. Listening doesn’t seem to be a strong point with you though as you seem more prone to advertise for yourself. What you said to or about jonesee is understandable. We dish it out, and we take it. It gave him an opportunity to make it right and now you should be happy. No one here looks on him any the worse, but you don’t come off so hot since you’re doing exactly what you are supposedly opposing. I often struggle with the issue of when do we forgt about the past and let it go, in the sense that we shouldn’t necessarily keep bringing up people’s past with these ministries if they too have moved on. Of course, the obvious rub is what do we do if this stuff continues on, and people are continuing to be manipulated or abused. Some believe that this is worse now than ever. Some don’t. Whether MCM, MSI, or EN is a cult is certainly up for debate. I am in the school of thought it is not a cult, but that it is a deeply flawed organization, starting at the top. I recognize and appreciate the fact that your role in the forerunner did not address the doctrinal and cultic aspects of the ministry and certainly don’t think the forerunner or yourself is a cult. For me, it still makes a good bottom for the birdcage, but then that’s just me and is not a reflection of its mission as a whole. I mean, heck, better to distribute a few copies for a birdcage, then none at all so to speak. | ||
| xman3 Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.59 |
Lots of people were hurt by these ministries. Lots continue to be abused, whether they know it or not. A simple analysis of the financial dealings of the organization, and the hypocrisy of the teaching on covenant and family reveals a couple of the major problems I have with EN. I don’t know that makes them a cult, but it makes them a ministry I will steer my children and everyone else clear of. As for the forerunner or yourself, well, any cursory mention you have received is almost meaningless here and is a mere entertaining sideline for most of us. I don’t blame you for jumping in and trying to drum up some free press for yourself and the rag because where else are you going to get it. If you can keep it atop google, then good for you. I have no problem defending EN ministers if I want to. I have defended Leo Lawson as good man, and done so as a lone voice, knowing it won’t be well received here, because I feel he is painted unjustly at times. I suspect if I knew a lot of these men I would feel the same about them because we were all part of this sick system at one time ourselves, and didn’t know what we were doing either. I’m unique in that I stick around and do so, unlike most like yourself who pop in, say their peace, and pop out. By staying around and dialoguing and listening, I’ve completely changed my perspective on the regulars here. These are good people with a lot of insight and wisdom and I’ve received a lot more than I’ve added. The fight against growing cynical is real, but not impossible to win. I’ve heard the stories, heard the hearts, and seen several sides of people and find that this factnet area is one I am in no way ashamed to be associated with. I have been treated with respect even when what I say is in direct contrast to what almost everyone else believes or posts and this may surprise you. I think you would receive the same treatment if you stuck around and got off your high horse for awhile and enjoyed the company. There’s actually only a few people who do most of the legwork in keeping us updated and apprised of current stuff, and I think it’s a good service. If you are so deluded so as to think that that is all the people who feel that way, you are somewhat naïve. I am the only poster I know from Michigan , yet I could name 30 people who have been harmed, treated as nothing, and still deal with things resulting from their experience. Each poster here represents many others who feel the same. I hang out here because of the people and common history, and because I just enjoy it. Most are far removed from being hurt by EN and I see very little crying over spilt milk. Come back, Jay, and dialogue for awhile and see if you can actually learn something and grow in your assessment of people and factnet. We might learn something from you, and you might learn something from us, and we can all be better off for it You’re small enough to post what you did these few times, why not be big enough to fight it out and see if your views hold up. People don’t get beat up around here because they hold a certain view. They get beat up around here because of their stinkin’ attitude and practice of hit and run posting that really says nothing. You struck me as different at first, but I admit I am now wondering a bit, but who am I but another factnet whiner, huh? | ||
| 40days40years Junior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.30.68 |
xman what are you doing? Your offering him the Captain Crunch decoder ring way to early. | ||
| xman3 Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.59 |
I always was one to dig through the box and grab the prize first before I ate the cereal. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Junior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.61.5.114 |
Ok 78 I will bite----where does drinking from the poisoned well of Luther happen and to whom?}I'm not even sure what you mean by this. But, as dust pointed out, it probably would be it's own thread. | ||
| dust Junior Member Username: dust Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
On April 3rd, Jay wrote on this thread: I took down the CONTRA EN cult thread after a few days (weeks?) because a friend of mine convinced me that it might be perceived as unloving. I realized that maybe I was merely mocking you and wasn't fostering a true spirit of love and reconciliation through my poor attempt at satire. Go back and good some more counsel from your friend. And, please send him here...I want to meet him. He sounds like he has some "light." I have no interest in shepherd types coming here to be abusive. Light will feel like light. Too many people here have been trained to bow down to mean-spirited people, to want to "engage" them and even be accepted by them. This is a classic sign of an abusive background.... wanting to engage a cobra...I've seen it here and I've seen it in myself. Freedom in Christ is bowing down to the light, not the dark. Send in your friend. | ||
| john_r_jones Junior Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 36 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Well dustie yer gettin' feisty in yer old age. Jonesee | ||
| dust Junior Member Username: dust Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
There are times to turn a cheek, times to turn a table. Do I sound old?  | ||
| john_r_jones Junior Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Nahhh, I spilled Geritol on my computer and it just seemed that way. Jonesee | ||
| dust Junior Member Username: dust Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Oh my gosh..., I actually know what what geritol is. As a child forced to watch Lawrence Welk, I remember one of the sponsors was geritol. The announcer would go: "iron poor blood, are you over 35? " Take Geritol. I remember thinking I never want to get to 35...then I'll be OLD. P.S. The EN founders must have watched these commercials. | ||
| john_r_jones Junior Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
We'll all celebrate, Geritol punch and prune cake to uh, um somethin' I forgot! Granpa Jones | ||
| coppertree New member Username: coppertree Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.129.80.164 |
Hi All-Catching up! Hey Jonesy... wait until they find out about Beta-Blockers ! 78, I am in the middle of three weeks straight, days and weekends of grading national math tests; I will find the reference for you. X-man, I feel the same about Leo, as you do. So does wildwood who sometimes posts here. Thank you for your kind post} | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
I actually know what what Geritol is. Yup, yer old. "Ah one ana two.." | ||
| john_r_jones Junior Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Ya know what Lawrence Welk told his orchestra before they went on the air? Jonesee | ||
| matt_hatter Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
No Jonesee, What did Old Larry tell his orchestra before they went on the air? | ||
| john_r_jones Junior Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 41 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Hokay boys, pee on yer toes! Jonesee | ||
| 40days40years Junior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 65.54.98.105 |
_______________________________________________________________________________ | ||
| 40days40years Junior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 65.54.98.105 |
________________________________! | ||
| jcr4runner New member Username: jcr4runner Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.165.137.163 |
Hey John Jones! I took offense for about 2 days (or maybe two seconds) and then I thought it was funny. My point being that many of the former members who castigate Maranatha engaged in cult-like behavior themselves. I hate to use you as an example -- but I know you have a sense of humor and can laugh at your mistakes ... hopefully. | ||
| jcr4runner New member Username: jcr4runner Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.165.137.163 |
Today was my last day of work for three months!! After nine months of dealing with semi-literate adolescents, summer vacation is better than morphine. It really DOES sound like SOME of the Contra-EN/MS/MCM people have made some progress with the healing and forgiveness thing. I write that and right off I am told that I must have a superiority complex, I need to be more introspective, and so on. I am not as introspective as I used to be. Maybe it's because I've become more Calvinistic as I've gotten older? Either that or it's because of that damned demon that keeps you from seeing you have a demon. (Did I just write: "Damned demon"?) Or maybe it's because I am getting a life? One thing is certain: If I need help with my superiority complex, I can just read what's written about me on Factnet. I just saw another thread on Factnet where people were asked to tell whether they thought I was an IDIOT or a CON-ARTIST. Are those the only two choices? http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/27627.html Early polling suggests I am merely an IDIOT. I MUST try harder.  But what the heck -- I have THREE MONTHS off! Nothing can bother me right now.  I take criticism seriously when it comes from people who actually know me. The criticism that hurts the most is the criticism I agree with. On the whole I am happy with my accomplishments through the ongoing series of missions projects that I call "The Forerunner." I am not trying to convince anyone. It's just to let you know that I am secure in who God made me to be. Which according to some is an IDIOT. I was doing a Google search earlier and I found a website that had my "Christianity and the Cults" article and a link to the Factnet tread with my name mentioned in the CON ARTIST OR IDIOT poll. On that topic, here's some more "birdcage" material from an idiot: http://forerunner.com/orthodoxy/X0008_7._Christianity_vs._.html | ||
| jcr4runner New member Username: jcr4runner Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.165.137.163 |
Since some of you guys like to post lyrics to rock songs, here's a good one. This is by The Eagles I turn on the tube and what do I see A whole lotta people cryin’ ’don’t blame me’ They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else Spend all their time feelin’ sorry for themselves Victim of this, victim of that Your momma’s too thin; your daddy’s too fat Get over it Get over it All this whinin’ and cryin’ and pitchin’ a fit Get over it, get over it You say you haven’t been the same since you had your little crash But you might feel better if I gave you some cash The more I think about it, old billy was right Let’s kill all the lawyers, kill ’em tonight You don’t want to work, you want to live like a king But the big, bad world doesn’t owe you a thing Get over it Get over it If you don’t want to play, then you might as well split Get over it, get over it It’s like going to confession every time I hear you speak You’re makin’ the most of your losin’ streak Some call it sick, but I call it weak You drag it around like a ball and chain You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown Got your mind in the gutter, bringin’ everybody down Complain about the present and blame it on the past I’d like to find your inner child and kick it’s little ••• Get over it Get over it All this •••••••’ and moanin’ and pitchin’ a fit Get over it, get over it Get over it Get over it It’s gotta stop sometime, so why don’t you quit Get over it, get over it | ||
| john_r_jones Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
I suppose Jay that for me the getting over it part is being able to admit mistakes I made. For others who knows? What I've found in life is that God seems to use wounded healers as opposed to men who wound the healers. I wouldn't give a tinker's damn for someone's ministry that hadn't taken some knocks in life. One of my heroes I suppose these days is Brennan Manning. I've read just about everything he's written and saw him and met him last summer at a retreat. His ability to be transparent without being maudlin and self absorbed is a gift and an inspiration for me. I guess when I took a moment to remember that day when I said what I did to you I thought, "How typically Maranatha-esque." To tell someone who didn't agree with me or see my point to put them in a double bind. If they did agree and admit that they had a demonic oppression then they possibly violated their conscience. If they didn't agree then they were condemned or made to feel inadequate or rebellious or marginalized. Or possibly a worst case scenario would be denial. To insist that for some who've had their world turned upside down are losers in some way and trivialize it. That seems Maranatha-esque to me. Jonesee | ||
| 40days40years Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 65.54.97.190 |
Well Jay I apologize for the bird cage jab but actually that was material written in the mid eighties before your archive quest. Still it was similar stuff. It really is not your prerogrative to tell folks when to get over it. See you and JRJ have something I don't have and many others, you have relationships with the creators of a machine. I just got the machine. You knew the crazy wizard and his wife behind the curtain pulling levers, most did not I guess I have to take your word for it, their good folk. | ||
| john_r_jones Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Secondly, Jay, I suppose I am astonished at the absurd irony of religious life that the cross is again used by some as a weapon to inflict pain and agony. I marvel at the relish some have for either bludgeoning some into silence or weilding it as a rapier and assuming they've found God's pleasure in so doing. I take the priesthood of a believer seriously, more so than I did back when, when it merely was a means of self preservation. I see our communal calling from God to find the sacredness of everyday life and make it extraordinary for others. To value them as both individuals and as a whole. Knowing that the whole of the church is in a hell of a mess, why contribute to that to sate my ego? I savor life now more than I did in Maranatha, I enjoy people more for their human-ness than for their holiness. One a reality, one something to hide behind and fence with others over the arcania of religion. I'll hush now. Jonesee | ||
| xman3 New member Username: xman3 Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.59 |
Hey 40, he's talking to me I believe. I'm just being sarcastic myself there jay. I don't even have the bird anymore. Just a little foolishness to see if you'ld come back, and you did. Like I said (and here I was serious) I am impressed you've continued with the forerunner vision. Pretty remarkable to me condidering the paths so many have taken over the years. My superiority crack refers to your alluding to the notion you'll return and see (in all your wisdom) how we measure up to your notion of getting over it, whatever that means. Still sounds superior to me, but as I said in another thread, I'm not sure of you are just brilliantly sarcastic or not. I didn't like the idiot or con artist poll personally and it probably was sarcasm gone amok. Most of us who would presume to call someone an idiot though, would probably consider ourselves idiots at some point also. Not a very exclusive club around here. Bottom line, few hang around for long and I probably was somewhat goading in the way I posted to drum up a response and that is not normally my style so I apologize for my excessive sarcasm. Despite all the years, I still get introspective at times and occasionally regret what I say or post and I was probably a bit off on that one, but I really do think you're a bit different than a lot of the quick responders. I read the article for the most part. Quite lengthy and informative. I liked most of it. I am also jealous of your 3 months off. Hope you enjoy it. I'd be doing a lot of golfing and communing with the Lord in the heat of a good match. |
