| Author | Message | ||
     osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 750 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.188.22.126 |
Here is the first Laffoon clip up at youtube. It hasn't been added to wikipedia yet. Just need to find the appropriate place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xVPqDQbR4 | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1917 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.211.138 |
Osakadan, thats a great one. I am wondering if you have the Jim lafoon prophecy where he told people to "rule them". Now that would be even better. Thelma in Wikipedia won't deny that this time. They need to be exposed more in Youtube. From leo lawson teaching, Jim lafoon prophesy, I would loveto see the one he prophesied to the senator that he is going to be the next president. Another thing, I'd wish we had the Jim lafoon prophesy telling this person to buy a certain stock because it could make him rich. the guy lost $8,000 by the way and he is still mad. Its about time this people get exposed of what they preach and believe in. | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 754 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 121.82.128.235 |
We are working on getting it posted in the coming weeks. It will be just the audio. Some EN documents are also going online. http://everynationdocuments.4shared.com/ All those would be great things to have! | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1929 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.55.215.23 |
I know Greg Wark. He is a non maranatha, so far his church is the best church in EN that I have visited. The only reason why he is in EN is because his best friend is Steve Murrell. Other than that, there is no reason for him to stay. He is not a good teacher like Ray maccolum, but there is definitely freedom in his church. down to earth guy. | ||
| philiprosenthal Advanced Member Username: philiprosenthal Post Number: 757 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 198.54.202.250 |
Osakadan Please email me at philip@rosenthal.net I can send you some more documents to add to your collection. Suggest also add a lot of tag description and submit it to search engines. | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1056 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
"The apostolic is the ability to look into a person's life and define what they are..." Jim Laffoon (who sounds mysteriously like Joe Smith in that short clip) Tikie: I wish I could hear more- but this short clip sounds just like the hogwash preached by MCM and their prophets "God has a word for you- and here is who you are and what you must do" I would suggest that Mr Lafoon complete a study (I'll by Sproul's audio study) of Hebrews, the book that is dedicated to showing that we are a Royal Priesthood a Holy Nation and that we require NO INTERCESSOR, no one to "look into our life and define who we are", well, at least we no no human agent to do so. We have but ONE Master who looks into our life and "DEFINES who we are" Osaka you sure know how to get a guy "riled up" | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1057 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
"The apostolic is the ability to look into a person's life and define what they are..." Jim Laffoon (who sounds mysteriously like Joe Smith in that short clip) Tikie: I wish I could hear more- but this short clip sounds just like the hogwash preached by MCM and their prophets "God has a word for you- and here is who you are and what you must do" I would suggest that Mr Lafoon complete a study (I'll by Sproul's audio study) of Hebrews, the book that is dedicated to showing that we are a Royal Priesthood a Holy Nation and that we require NO INTERCESSOR, no one to "look into our life and define who we are", well, at least we no no human agent to do so. We have but ONE Master who looks into our life and "DEFINES who we are" Osaka you sure know how to get a guy "riled up" | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 764 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.188.246.112 |
Yeah '84. I was listening to a long Laffoon speech someone sent me. It 2was just "off". Doctrine aside, the style really had me question his integrity along with that of the audience laughing at his jokes about a bible figure being drunk. | ||
| the_west_here_i_come Junior Member Username: the_west_here_i_come Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 128.186.152.93 |
I don't know if it has ever occurred to anyone here but a lot of these teachings that EN promotes are completely based in the occult. For example, many posted here about how the leaders were using the "destiny" message to keep people under them because if they left that means the leaders lose money, ect. The idea that are identity is founded in what church we go to is paganistic because it promotes idolatry and more importantly, these leaders use fear as a motivator to seduce people into submission as well as use fear of being out of god's will and "losing out" on life if they leave. This is occult tactics and it is very satanic and again explains the spirit of the antichrist that operates inside this body! very scary! | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
many teachings arew based on ideas of the "New Order of the Latter Rain", which has its roots in Jane Leads occult/ esotheric/ theosophical writings... http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&hs=3Sy&q=jane+lead&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3D http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&hs=3Sy&q=jane+lead&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3D http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&hs=3Ty&q=New+Order+of+the+Latter+Rain&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3D | ||
| former_en_pastor New member Username: former_en_pastor Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 24.240.188.68 |
o-dan, I suggest posting the CFC 990's. They certainly demonstrate how EN leadership all gorge themselves at any trough that has green backs running through it. It also includes some very questionable claims at to the number of hours EN leadership works on CFC. I especially enjoy the 2004 CFC 990 that claims that Brett Fuller spent over 30 hours per week on CFC as did Rice, and Phil Bonasso spent over 10 hours per week on CFC. Also, the 2005 CFC 990 is interesting in that Brett received a $120,500 annual salary for working 25 hours per week on a ministry that is of questionable vitality - so $120k for doing such a wonderful job... Other details in these 990s is also very revealing. | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1437 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
Tik, yes, he still needs it as he is still preaching about how believers need to be "accountable" to stay "clean" (hmmm, what happened to the Holy Spirit, priesthood of the believer, Christ's Blood, the individual conscience of the believer)? And that if you leave "community" which is the new updated term for "spiritual family" you may miss out on God's blessings are for you which appears to be the new updated language for "destiny." (Though "destiny" was also mentioned as well.) And that since Jesus Christ is not physically here, He is here primarily through other people who keeps the part of us touching the "world" clean. The Holy Spirit gets us clean; others keep us clean. If you don't do this, you miss out on your destiny. We are supposed to submit humbly to others who wash our lives and hearts clean. Hmmm. Sounds like Shepherding to me. Sounds like another priesthood to me. What happened to the Holy Spirit, the Counselor who would be with us until the end of the age? It's only partially right. Partial truths are falsehoods imho. http://podcast.bwoc.org These are CURRENT TEACHINGS. Tik, take a few minutes and start around 15:35 or so if you don't want to listen to the whole thing. I'd appreciate your feedback. former_en_pastor, good point. Though they don't have to be uploaded, just linked as they can be found online in several places, including Guidestar.org and ERI. JIA aka Robert? If so, welcome back! | ||
| jesusisawesome Advanced Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 828 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.105 |
jia (lower case) is Robert. JIA(upper case) is still me. Thanks for the idea 40/40. | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 771 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
Have posted some of the 990's here. Will have the rest up soon. http://everynationdocuments.4shared.com/ Just got the Laffoon "to reach and to rule" sermon should be up on youtube over the weekend. | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1934 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.55.215.23 |
I would love to see that in youtube osakadan ! Thelma who is in denial all these weeks now have to face it. | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 772 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
These are the first 2 soundbite clips from the To Reach and To Rule ""Sermon"". Not recommended for those of you who haven't had breakfast yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev9Ejsofatk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbOrHDc14MM | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 773 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
And a 3rd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBu2OGl4VI One of the earlier clips discuses the name change....This is just my interpretation but it seems that the prophet is hedging his bets when he says "I am convinced God is........" Playing things down not to look to out there. Then he gets carried away with his own rhetoric in this 3rd clip. "God has given......" and it is the prophet in full swing. | ||
| lc_20 Advanced Member Username: lc_20 Post Number: 772 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.76 |
osakadan, The first two links took me to JF but the third did not. Interesting stuff. Interesting how the calling for God's people changes as these guys get older and see that the original prophecies from years back don't have time to happen. Went from every nation in our generation to raising up the next generation to do it... or at least that was my hearing of it. Sounds like another group of people who thought that their actions could manipulate the timing of JCs return. Since they dont seem to be pulling it off in their time estimate (2010), they seem to be putting it on the next generation. | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 774 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
Have to redo the 3rd clip...some conflict | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
sick... really SICK! by the way... is there a way to load the files from youtube permanently down on my computer? | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 775 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
There is a 3rd party software available for pc but don't know how to do it...Let me know if you just want the soundclips or with the photo and caption and I will email them to you. | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1438 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.94.88 |
Robert, check your email. BTW, as a reality check, when you start interpreting MAJOR Biblical prophecies as referring specifically to your specific group, including Biblical prophecies that ascribe divine qualities and/or are messianic, then IMHO you are crossing the line into cultism... one of the characteristics of cultic groups is ascribing special, elite, or even divine status and attributes to your group and/or its leaders. | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 776 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.190.3.149 |
So true Uly.... I was quite shocked after listening to them all. I can imagine people just being under some kind of spell as they lapped it up. I don't remember this aspect of my MCM days so clearly. I hope it wasn't as obvious as these. It would be comforting to think I wasn't quite so deluded as these folks. | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
The whole subject shows beatifully the double-mindetness and schizophrenia that has taken place within EN about certain things. While you hear the audience aplaud and scream "amen" during false-prophet Laffoons sermon (specially the passage where he claims that the church will RULE the nations), they are very embarrased when the same things become subject of public discussions and they even deny it on their website, and on wikipedia. such a hypocracy! Are these people PROUD about their vision and about the idea to RULE the nations? or are they ashame of it? | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
hm - thx for the files, but i was thinking on the people who read this thread, see the videos and want to download and save them... --- | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1439 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
And not just "the church" as in the church universal. THIS church. It's one thing to claim that the church universal will rule and reign with Christ (either premil, postmil, etc.). It's quite another to claim that THIS specific church is the only one that has fully understood Christ's mandate after 2,000 years and as a result IT will fulfill Biblical prophecy and rule. THAT is CULTIC. | ||
| j2theperson Advanced Member Username: j2theperson Post Number: 741 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.27.68.96 |
You might want to check out this website. You'll need a flash video player to view any clips you download, but the website has some links to some free flash video players. | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
thanks - i will check this out. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 450 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
I can not see Jim Laffoon opening or preaching from the bible in his sermons in the videos posted by osakadan in the post 772!! Where did Jim Laffoon get the idea that his organization, called Every Nation should "Reach and Rule". Our Lord, Jesus Christ himself is the king and Jesus Christ will also be the king during the millenium, after the short kingdom of the antichrist. I can not find that idea of "Reach and Rule" by the organization called Every Nation in my bible! I hope that they are not training Every Nation to eventually "Reach and Rule" with the antichrist.  Did he get that idea from the Kabbalah, freemasons or other pagan sources? I remember similar sermons with a similar tone of charismatic voice from Maranatha. I had seen similar unbiblical ideas in the Latter Rain, Dominionist, Reconstrucionist and kingdom Now heretic theologies. (Message edited by pilgrim on March 23, 2007) (Message edited by pilgrim on March 23, 2007) | ||
| the_west_here_i_come Junior Member Username: the_west_here_i_come Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 128.186.152.45 |
remember EN's taching are based in the occult and promote paganistic teachings; Look at the doctrine of the nicholaitans that states in order to get to God you og through leadership because they are so much closer to God. EN's god is money and their belly! Though En does refer God as being external the fruit of their ministry promotes and supports the spirit of the antichrist. In fact some of the EN leaders are antichrists based on what the Bible teaches! Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse! | ||
| blueboy96 Intermediate Member Username: blueboy96 Post Number: 161 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.132.39.72 |
"The ability to define what they are ..." If that's true, then EN's apostles must be losing their touch. Quite a few of us came from churches pastored by IAT members ... and look what happened. | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
EN is connected to the NOLR-heresy not only by their doctrines but relationaly (Wagner is still teaching at EN) and it was connected organisationaly (P.Daniel and Rice Brooks where part of Wagners roundtable and Laffoon was part of Wagners "Council of prophetic Elders") at least until 2003. The NAR is nothing else than a modern version of NewOrderOfTheLatterRain ideology. Dominionism (the church will literally rule the world before Christs second coming), Sheperding (every believer needs to be under apostolic authority), the Manifest Manchild, the corporate Body of Christ (the Church = Jesus) are only some heresies that are influenced by NOLR and are spread threw NAR and also through EN. They dont name it (they even deny it) - but these heresies are rooted deeply in the DNA of EN through their leaders (who got discipled by a MCM which was strongly influenced by NOLR and where/ are connected to C.Peter Wagners crazy ideas about a new apostolic reformation). All the problems that have hitten the surface during the last years have their reason in this crazy ideas. But still they dont change anything about it. (Message edited by jia on March 24, 2007) (Message edited by jia on March 24, 2007) | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2098 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.192.49.141 |
Glad to see you back robert_unknown. Your welcome Jesus is awesome. Robert could you please sign your name before or after what you post or somthing like, Hi robert here. I know who you are but many don't. Even though I really don't know who you are but all I am saying is that your not JIA. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 451 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Hi jia aka Robert, Is nice to have you back. We learn a lot from you! Blessings Pilgrim | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
hehe... no i am not jia. i am the unknown guy... ;) thx guys - i am also happy to be back again! greetings unknown | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1441 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
Hey "unknown guy"  ... you said that Wagner is still teaching at EN? As of how recently? | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
well he was when my friends where there for a short and condensed version of school of ministry in, i think 2003 or 2004... thats what they told me! | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
and i think he was also talking at a conference even later than 2004... | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1442 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
Ok, the most recent I knew about was in early 2006, before they announced on Wikipedia that they weren't part of the NAR anymore. I didn't know if you knew of anything more recent than that. He was a keynote speaker at the 2004 World Conference and is included on the CD/DVD series sold by EN. | ||
| jia New member Username: jia Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
no - i dont know anymore recent than this. but i mentioned the connection to Wagner and NAR to Kevin York last year (october/ november), and he said, "that Brooks, who has a theological degree in reformed theology, left the roundtable, because he knows how weird Wagners theories are"... this was a typical damage controle answer: agree with what you can agree. twist history that you benefit from it. the roundtable is not existing anylonger since some years, and i doubt, that it was Brooks "wisdom" and "theological understanding" that he left NAR - it seems that the roundtable go disolved for some reasons (perhaps someone can find out when and why) anyhow. | ||
| verduin New member Username: verduin Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.196.246.162 |
Sorry, I know this is old news but after listening to Laffoon's sermon I just can't help myself.... Ulyankee said: “Partial truths are falsehoods imho.” Especially when used to intentionally twist and manipulate God’s word to further a corrupted and destructive agenda. Per a topic discussed on another thread, Jim Laffoon is the poster boy for eisegesis. He is an eisegete. He is the definitive eisegete. He blatantly ignores the plain meaning of a text and claims the obvious and simple lesson of humility and “servant leadership” is shallow. Jesus from John 13:12-17: "Do you understand what I have done for you? You call me Teacher and Lord and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. I have set an example that you should do what I have done for you. I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. Now that you know these things you will be blessed if you do them." After giving the Biblical quote of Jesus, listen to detect the condescension, disregard and even disgust in Laffoon’s voice when referring to the classic teaching of servant leadership and humility: What is Jesus saying here? This is something that's so important…this is Later, Laffoon states that “Peter never got it (even though Jesus said, “Now that you know these things…”).” According to Laffoon, Peter didn’t understand Jesus’ desire to “create community” because “Peter wasn't humble, he was so prideful he didn't want anyone to see what was on the bottom of his foot.” “Peter didn’t want Jesus messing with the dirt on his feet.” Apparently, according to Laffoon and using his interpretation, Peter did not want Jesus, or any of His servants, to wash his life or to wash his heart and refused to be accountable even unto the recognized Messiah, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, his Lord and Teacher. Also, Laffoon’s use of creative dialogue outside of scriptural quotes is pure poetic license and often so completely disconnected from the actual context that it becomes sinister as he takes advantage of the gullibility and Biblical naiveté of his audience in a “the ends justifies the means” approach to his teaching. However, one thing he preaches is true: Let me explain to you…you probably will never have deep, deep community with Pastor Rice. I do. Because we walk together and live life together. Yeah, behind the walls of an exclusive, gated community of million dollar plus homes paid for by the sheep who give sacrificially, in total obedience and under the unquestioned authority of the EN apostles and prophets, so they too can “prosper” and “succeed” while striving to fulfill their purpose and destiny as “leaders” in order to “reach and to rule” the nations. ….and the de facto President and CEO of EN, Pastor Rice, who is the spiritually genetic offspring of Bob Weiner, continues to applaud, validate and encourage it all. moose | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1096 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Verduin WOW! Powerful. What Mr. Laffoon is doing is EXACTLY what Rose and Bob use to do- twist and bend scriptures. The truth is this: Bob Weiner was the spiritual father of the leaders of VCF/MSI and EN. The learned how to relate to others and each other through his example. The example of Lafoons teaching not only violate simple principles of exegesis and hermeunetics is it vile, hypocritcal, and heretical. But the question is WHY is this doctrine which is ANTI CHRIST preached. Simple: It establishes that God's annointed, that is LAffon, Fuller Broocks are to be treated with honor, showered with money and gifts- to be above the unwashed crowd. They will have to answer to God Almighty for this- I care not a fig for them- these unwashed tombs and Pharisees- but what I do care about is those who are going to be trapped in their viscious and hypocritical ponzi scheme. MSI EN was flawed at its inception- that a CHristian Overcomer can be perfected through the effort and grasping of man. This is the same doctrine of totalism that caused so much devastation through communism/nazism. Why Steve Murrell who I personally knew is associated with such corrupt and wicked people I cannot understand. My mentor Peter Drucker once wrote The Character and Quality of a Leader is determined by the Character and Qualities of those he associates with. There is no leader of any quality who associates himself with men of low morals and who lack integrity. Tikie | ||
| coppertree Senior Member Username: coppertree Post Number: 1281 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.162.221.15 |
Hi Moose, Glad to see you again !!} | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1295 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Moose, Welcome here. I don't believe I remember you. Thanks for your statements. I find Jim Lafoon to be a very dark character in this group. Darkly dangerous. I've been in front of too many of his sermons and never would I feel right. He proclaims that God appears to him, and Rice jokes about it. He is man of irony...he feeds himself literally unhealthy food to his own demise and he feeds the crowds unhealthy spiritual food, also to his own demise. And, I don't know why Steve Murrell gets a pass. I mean he will not have Rice or Jim with him when he faces God. People say, Oh Steve is the one with the scruples. This is pretense. It's like saying the one brother in the mafia is the good guy. It doesn't work like that. God says MY kingdom come, MY will be done. | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1451 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.108.228 |
Moose, welcome back, and great points. Love the use of purple to highlight Laffoon's quotes as well. I personally find it symbolic on more than one level, even though on one of those levels I have been disputed. Oh well, one can't deny that the Purple Book is purple, for whatever reason it happens to be purple... I don't know if you have noticed, but Laffoon has been characterized as "one pastor" making "one sermon" as pertains to To Reach and To Rule over on Wikipedia. I would say though that of all of EN's leaders, he is the most openly consistent in his teachings... he is the closest to having a coherent theology. I'm not saying it's a good and right theology, like Dust I think it's very dangerous and poisonous, but more than anyone else in current EN leadership imho he presents enough pieces of it to see how it fits and what his world view really is, and it's out there for those to see IF they HAVE EYES TO SEE IT. However, as Laffoon has also been on record multiple times teaching how to quell resistance to (apostolic) authority and to get people to blindly submit to this stuff (ie by getting them drunk on "worship"), not everyone "gets it" that Laffoon is the one who doesn't "get it." But IT'S NOT JUST JIM LAFFOON. HE HAS THE TACIT APPROVAL OF EN AND ITS LEADERSHIP. And yes, as you pointed out, Rice Broocks is still very much in top leadership. | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1950 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.217.192 |
Well, so far Jim Lafoon is the only one who is consistent. have you been to his blog lately. Nothing has change. Keep putting him on youtube. So when other churches do some research, then can see it for themselves. It is in fact for his own demise. Now and the future. While the rest is of EN leadership is like a chameleon. Hoping nobody will notice as they try to blend in. Like Rice desperately trying to do. | ||
| jesusisawesome Advanced Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 882 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.105 |
Verduin/Moose, You hit the nail on the head. Powerful stuff . . . I hope that we see more of you. Partial truth is so much more lethal than outright blatant lies, because blatant lies are so much easier to spot, correct, and come out of. Partial truth has the appearance of good fruit, but it is poisonous when you eat it. Only you don't know you're eating poison! It is not the fruit of the tree of life, and only brings death and destruction. Only heaven knows the fully tally of damage wreaked by selfish "leaders" profanely using the name of Christ to further their own personal interests and agendas. They preach another gospel, NOT CHRIST. Partial truth can be so hard to recover from and come out of. Even though I have been out of this ministry for many years, it has taken me about 20 years to really understand how OFF all of this is . . . the coming to the realization that it isn't just Christianity with a few kinks that need to be ironed out, but a FALSE GOSPEL. That is really a hard truth to accept and understand, when you've walked with people and loved them, fellowshipped and broken bread, and I think the longer you have been in it, the harder it is to recover. They confess Jesus with their lips, but with their actions and teachings they deny Him. I hope and pray that others will be spared of walking the same route of deception that I walked. | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
WELL - i would say thats at least GOOD NEWS here... isnt it? or does someone here volunteer to have "deep, deep community" with Rice Brooks... BAHHH - if i only imagine. what is this anyhow? is this a "christianised" homo-erotic sort of thing? is it the expression of a messianic complex? "Messiah Rice" allwing some chosen vessels to have "deep, deep comunity" with him? May the force be with them... whats so special with Rice Brooks anyhow? i think most people have no desire whatever to have deep comunity with him anyhow... thanks brave Jim Laffoon, to you. Couragously you keep up the "deep, deep comunity" with "Mr. False-Apostle Brooks". we choose to live with Jesus Christ! regards R_Unknown (Message edited by jia on April 06, 2007) | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1952 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.217.192 |
Funny how most people are avoiding Rice. Even the city hated him after the stunt he pulled on the Franklin property. The city hated him, former EN members hated him. Only Jim Lafoon will be the only one who is aligning with Rice. Jim must have forgotten the prophesy given to him by David Cartledge. 2004. Rice must have needed a sympathetic ear. And Jim Lafoon is willing to give it to him. Talking about Rice, Knowing two former EN leaders, I mean top leaders just recently gotten their divorces. Once everyhting goes down, I won't be surprised Rice Brookes will get a divorce too. I am wondering where is Steve Murrell in all this ? is he distancing himself from Rice Brookes ? | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2211 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.192.158.58 |
So Lafoon says: Peter didn’t understand Jesus’ desire to “create community” because “Peter wasn't humble, he was so prideful he didn't want anyone to see what was on the bottom of his foot.” “Peter didn’t want Jesus messing with the dirt on his feet.” Moose said: Apparently, according to Laffoon and using his interpretation, Peter did not want Jesus, or any of His servants, to wash his life or to wash his heart and refused to be accountable even unto the recognized Messiah, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, his Lord and Teacher. 40/40: what this shows is that Peter telling Jesus don't wash my feet? Peter was walking in the EN mindset he was saying Jesus your in authority I am below you and respect you, don't wash my feet. Jesus was trying to tell Peter my system is not that way you serve one another and he was not just telling leaders to watch each others backs. In actuality Jesus was kind of rebuking the EN mindset that overly exalts authority and he was showing true leadership means your a servant. After Jesus told Peter unless you let me wash your feet you have no part of me did'nt Peter say something like Lord not just my feet but also my hands and head? So it sounds like Peter was not all that concerned after all about Jesus seeing dirt on the bottom of his feet. In fact is'nt Peter kind of saying hey I'm dirty all over Lord? Then Jesus said: He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." I guess we all make mistakes but Lafoon really makes a stretch here in his interpretations. | ||
| sameo Senior Member Username: sameo Post Number: 1154 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.140.253.49 |
nicely said, 40! I agree with you...and that's how I've always read it. yeh, sounds like a lil' twisting of the scriptures to me. | ||
| jia Junior Member Username: jia Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
So Lafoon says: Peter didn’t understand Jesus’ desire to “create community” because “Peter wasn't humble, he was so prideful he didn't want anyone to see what was on the bottom of his foot.” “Peter didn’t want Jesus messing with the dirt on his feet.” arent you guys happy that we have Jim Laffon? I mean: imagine his spiritual insight and revelation would not be there for us misled and poor fools? i mean, it needs a Jim Laffon to interprete this scripture right, doesnt it? the foolish "old church" didnt understand this scripture and therefore lived a live full of false activities, like serving the poor and outcast. it needs a Laffon and other NAR apostles you REALLY understand and interprete scripture right for the "new paradigm church". why do we need to make the same mistakes (serving the poor, having comunion with Jesus...) than the church until today? the new paradigm NAR church has to rule! and its apostles are (real) kings, arent they? IMO it was not Peter not understanding Jesus, because of a lack of humility. Its Jim not understanding Jesus because of a lack of humility. Jesus CLEARLY thaught contrary to the "NEWApostolic" to-reign-and-to-rule CRAP! Peter at the end became a real apostle for JEsus. the false apostles that got created my the heretic NOLR and NAR have BIG problems understandign Christs leadership. Jesus came as a servant and not as a king. next time he will come as a king. only then HE (yes - Jesus has the ONLY authority to do this- NOT the "new apostolic" heretics, not Wagner, not laffon with his spooky prophecies of untruth, not Mrrrr. Ricey, nor Steve...) will make some of his children kings to rule. now its the time of servanthood and not the time of rulership. no wonder that egomaniacs dont understand this and get attracted by NAR crap! | ||
| jia Member Username: jia Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
So Lafoon says: Peter didn’t understand Jesus’ desire to “create community” because “Peter wasn't humble, he was so prideful he didn't want anyone to see what was on the bottom of his foot.” “Peter didn’t want Jesus messing with the dirt on his feet.” Moose said: Apparently, according to Laffoon and using his interpretation, Peter did not want Jesus, or any of His servants, to wash his life or to wash his heart and refused to be accountable even unto the recognized Messiah, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, his Lord and Teacher. arent you guys happy that we have Jim Laffon? I mean: imagine his spiritual insight and revelation would not be there for us misled and poor fools? i mean, it needs a Jim Laffon to interprete this scripture right, doesnt it? the foolish "old church" didnt understand this scripture and therefore lived a live full of false activities, like serving the poor and outcast. it needs a Laffon and other NAR apostles you REALLY understand and interprete scripture right for the "new paradigm church". why do we need to make the same mistakes (serving the poor, having comunion with Jesus...) than the church until today? the new paradigm NAR church has to rule! and its apostles are (real) kings, arent they? IMO it was not Peter not understanding Jesus, because of a lack of humility. Its Jim not understanding Jesus because of a lack of humility. Jesus CLEARLY thaught contrary to the "NEWApostolic" to-reign-and-to-rule CRAP! Peter at the end became a real apostle for JEsus. the false apostles that got created my the heretic NOLR and NAR have BIG problems understandign Christs leadership. Jesus came as a servant and not as a king. next time he will come as a king. only then HE (yes - Jesus has the ONLY authority to do this- NOT the "new apostolic" heretics, not Wagner, not laffon with his spooky prophecies of untruth, not Mrrrr. Ricey, nor Steve...) will make some of his children kings to rule. now its the time of servanthood and not the time of rulership. no wonder that egomaniacs dont understand this and get attracted by NAR crap! | ||
| jia Member Username: jia Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
the false gopsel of the NAR makes the CHURCH sacrifice for their leaders. REAL christian leadership is the other way around. the false gospel is concerend bringing people under the authority of (false) leaders, instead under the authority of Jesus Christ himselve. the false gospel centeres around a false church. the real gospel centers around the head of the church: Christ Jesus! thinks R_Unknown | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1953 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.217.192 |
Jim lafoon sounded like leo lawson. I believe I heard that preaching couple of years ago from Leo, pretty similar. I do recall Leo said that Peter is prideful with almost the same line like Jim Lafoon. Jim Lafoon have clearly twisted scriptures same tactic like Leo lawson. Their preaching style are similar. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2217 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 17.184.103.245 |
Ginger this is funny because I went to bed late last night and I was thinking am I to hard on Jim Laffoon? but then I thought his interpretation of the bible story about Jesus washing the feet of the disciples is so far off it is almost in the same category as Leo Lawson saying that Peter was trying to commit suicide when he attempted to walk on water. I thought that these wacky interpretations must come from the same spirit. Then I thought of the teacher in EN who said that the book of Revelations was just the deluded sayings of an insane Apostle John and the kids just went along with it. Ginger or lc_20 or anyone who taught that again? Also in case you don't know everyone, Osakadan has posted the To Reach and Rule speach on utube it is not just that 7 second snippet about apostles defining who you are. That snippet was so short some might think it was out of context or something. check this out, truely disturbing, even more when you hear this stuff out of Mr. Laffoons actual mouth. This stuff is a lot more twisted then anything I heard in Maranatha. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Advanced Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 993 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.99.130.74 |
There is an extreme cognizant dissonance when I hear that stuff. I mean, his vision of the Christian Faith is so diametrically opposed to everything I know about Christ as to make it a totally different animal altogether. These guys aren't just heretics, they're truly demonically deceived. | ||
| jia Member Username: jia Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
all this crap comes from the NOLR and from the New Apostolic Reformation idea about a "new paradigm church" with "new revelations" growing into a "new thing". please guys study it on the internet. Mr.Laffoon did not invent it by himself. hes just on it big time, and he is spreading this junk everywhere. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1301 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Agree agree........ It's very clear why they target YOUNG people.....Lafoon casts his spell on youth and pumps them up through SPIRITUAL PRIDE, instead of walking and showing the kingdom in a spirit of humility. It almost doesn't matter what he says (but it does); just notice the "appeal" to the youth, to do something no one has ever done before. | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 370 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 64.198.236.246 |
40: "check this out, truly disturbing, even more when you hear this stuff out of Mr. Laffoons actual mouth. This stuff is a lot more twisted then anything I heard in Maranatha." This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is the EN school of thought I was a part of. These are things I didn't think you former Maranatha folk were really abreast to. Which is why I was willing to send copies of the 40plus CD's I have. I didn't think it mattered after a while because the good part is that you all are out of Maranatha/Morning Star/ EN. This is the heresy of destiny that captures all those kids. This is the appeal Dust- like you so wisely see- it's trying to do something no one has ever done. I wasn't staff. I wasn't doing any of those things like babbles, and "speaking faith", and subscribing to the spirit of this or that, I wasn't getting support to spread this message of theirs. What I was doing was getting ready to do something noone else has ever done. Along the way you learn all the things of the HAVE TO DO's. This is the new face of this cult. (to new comers at factnet- Please understand that I do not say someone who is saved is not saved- when I say cult I speak of a system of beliefs). I'm so grateful I was taking through this experience- I was able to help my blood brother when things went terribly wrong. He was able to help me as well. Don't ever forget to pray for those kids in California. The opposite message of EN keeps them thinking they'll never amount. They are torn, and like Israel they are dislocated. God has them insight; as he has us all. This EN message is from being tired and produces more tired people. Who here knows tired? Either you'll eventually fall into the arms of God or you fall into the arms of EN. (Message edited by jayhernandez on April 08, 2007) | ||
| maranatha1984 Senior Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 1101 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
40: Great insight- cannot improve on it even if I desired to. JIA- well said-in science as well as (I believe) in theology there is a principle known as Occam' Razor which says the following: If there are two explanations for something the simplest one is true. Laffoon has to do so many mental and theological twists and turn he has become a parody of gumby. LOL! Wow!!!!!!:Laffoon takes Jesus very dramatic demonstration of servant leadership (washing feet) and turns it on its head. Incredible!! | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2227 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.193.105.230 |
I like what Ginger says your destiny is Jesus. I thought to rule meant to serve? Oh whatever. Not to mention a whole lot of folks who rule with Jesus in the future had their heads cut off for not accepting the mark of the beast, no doubt they don't think this will happen to them or the leaders kids because they are the 144k or the manifest sons of God. I always thought the manifest sons of God were those who come back in their glorified bodies with Jesus in the clouds but that is another topic. Guys it does matter what he says. Jim Lafoon and Leo Lawson have a similar mindset they eat from the same trough. Their probably close friends. Lafoon says: Peter didn’t understand Jesus’ desire to “create community”. 40: Create community means sheperding and being accountable to one another and in submission to authority, maybe without the code words or even the word sheperding or covering but it is the same thing. Jim Laffoon took a simple teaching on being a servant and washing each others feet and he turned it into an endorsement of the dynamics of sheperding. In sheperding it is all about authority and submitting to authority. So Jim takes a message from Jesus about rejecting the ways of the world in regards to Lording over others and uses that message to endorse the opposite. He accuses Peter of originally rejecting the sheperding concept. Leo Lawson does the same sort of trick. He preached that deliverance from bondage for people should come through a sheperding relationship where your in submission to the "rulers" above you. So what Leo is doing is he is taking something like deliverance which is suppose to make you free from bondage and using it to put you in bondage. That is why Leo would force people to reconvert so they would be in submission to the one (himself) who brought them to the Lord. So these guys always seem to take simple scriptures and practices and change the meanings to endorse their idea of community. Like Uly said they think their the Head or get very close to promoting that concept in actuality even if they don't mean to. | ||
| verduin New member Username: verduin Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.88.136.107 |
As I entered the front of my church this beautiful and extraordinary Easter morning, I walked past the gorgeous, mesmerizing and almost life-size sculpture entitled “Divine Servant” which depicts Jesus washing Peter’s feet. The scripture that accompanies the bronze statue is not John 13 but Philippians 2:5-11: 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. In the preceding verses, Paul says “2 make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus….” There just may be a sermon regarding “community” somewhere in there but certainly not the kind Laffoon and Co. promote (an updated version of shepherding/spiritual covering/spiritual authority-accountability-control/speaking into your life and defining "what" you are/ "I got a word for you, brother"). This may be picky, but even Laffoon’s nuances of the English language are telling. Jesus said, regarding the washing of other’s feet, “Do you understand what I have done for you?.... I have set an example that you should do what I have done for you.” But Laffoon, just after he says, “Peter didn’t get it,” goes on to say, “Here’s what Jesus is saying…he’s saying, “Peter, what I’m doing to you, I want you to do to others.” Using Laffoon’s own creative dialogue, what he is really saying is “What I’m doing to you is for your own good. I’m washing your heart, life and brain. Just obey the prophet and the apostle(s) as unto God, and as your spiritual covering and without question and without being bitter and rebellious and touch not God’s anointed, so we can define you and lead you to your purpose and destiny so you can someday rule the world as Joel's army, the many-membered manchild, the manifest sons of god. In the meantime, allow God to bless you and come clean my pool, baby sit my kids and mow my yard for free while giving as much money as you can to help pay my mortgage and you will share the prophet’s reward….for I/we, the EN apostles and prophets, are worthy of double honor($)a hundred fold.” I know, I know, Jon Moseley and Jay Rogers, I am a bad boy. I will pray for forgiveness and the coming of Gary North’s kingdom. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2228 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.85.80 |
Verduin what does your name mean? it sounds cool but kind of menacing  . Verduin is coming to get you. Bad boys, bad boys, watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when verduin come for you? (repeat 5 times) I like what Jim Laffoon says here: What is Jesus saying here? This is something that's so important…this is something that's so critical…."if you don't capture it," Jesus says, "if you don't understand it, you may lose part of your destiny….you may lose part of your purpose….it may affect your walk." 40/40: Translation, go along with the sheperding program, submit to us, serve us or you will lose your destiny! | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 2229 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.85.80 |
So why do we need this sheperding, submission, covering junk anyway? what's in it for Jesus? I mean in mcm the reason was to enforce holiness and commitment but is'nt that the job of the Holy Spirit? For a new believer it seems to work for a time making a baby believer seem more advanced then he or she should be and folks are impressed but over time those running the thing? It corrupts them and they rot from the head when they realize they have all the power and those under them to serve their desires or whims in the name of serving God. If there is a disagreement the leader always wins with this system. | ||
| the_west_here_i_come Junior Member Username: the_west_here_i_come Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 128.186.148.232 |
This teaching from Lafoon is nothing more than duplicate principles of the occult and its teachings. This is the spirit of Jezebel. She hates true authority and wants to replace God which is why the spirit of the antichrist operates inside this ministry. They (EN leaders are the head) not Christ is what the fruit of this teaching produces and its demonic and is a open avenue for them to practice the deeds of the nicholaitans which most know here that its a hierarchical system that suggest in order to get to God you have to go through leadership ebcuase they are closer to God. What a lie and an illusion! We need to pray for EN's followers because the spirit of Jezebel has deceived them but yet our God will hold them each accountable for their deeds including the followers that may end of becoming like their leadership. People are spiritually being killed and we need to pray. We need to ask the Lord to raise up Daniels, Ezekiels even Jeremiahs to proclaim the truth regardless of the pain. People are losing out not gaining by believing in a lie! | ||
| coppertree Senior Member Username: coppertree Post Number: 1288 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.140.35.59 |
Hi West, Nice to see you ! Yes, I quite agree about the teaching , it is straight Latter Rain, etc. It is not the gospel, not even close. On Maranatha Latter rain thread here, one needs to scroll down on the main page topic list, list of all topics The title is 'Latter Rain Movement', it was on March 27, 04. It is concise, well written history. Thank you West for reminding me of that.} | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1453 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.92.150 |
I believe that was attributed to Paul Barker, a former MCM pastor who oversaw the first two years of VLI/ENLI in the States. |
