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philiprosenthal
Advanced Member
Username: philiprosenthal
Post Number: 742
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 196.25.255.250
| | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:45 am: | 
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How would you have reacted if you had found FactNet while you were still in EveryNation?
Think about this question as applying to:
* While you were still in the mainstream flow of the organisation?
* While you were starting to question things that may be wrong?
* Maybe you did actually find FactNet while part of EN. What were your initial reactions? How did this change over time?
My own answer:
* If I found it in my earlier mainstream days attacking His People, I think I probably would have got involved in FactNet as the main spokesperson/defender of His People. Nevertheless, I think that some things people said would have forced me to think and ask questions - and I that process would have led to a shake-up in the organisation.
* If I had found it in my earlier days attacking MorningStar, I think it probably would have led to an anti-MorningStar campaign to stop HP from joining MSI.
* If I had found it in my later days when I was questioning and challenging problems, I think it would have saved me an enormous amount of wasted time and sweat - which I wasted trying to get problems remedied via the internal channels of the MorningStar board - not realising they were in just as much of a mess as His People. I think it would have saved me exposing myself to the risk of abuse. I think it would have helped me to network and find like minded people - who could have been a force for good in the organisation. I probably would have challenged things in a much tougher way much more quickly rather than starting slowly with the 'softly-softly' approach for several years. I think it would have helped me realise the problems were international in scale and not just local church crises, which demanded an international response. I think that had FactNet been around then, I would have probably been more reserved in my comments participating here than I have been since I left.
I think also on an institutional level, had FactNet been bigger several years back it would have started to break down the power monopoly of the apostolic personality cults - and encourage more free thinking and conversation independently of FactNet. |
lc_20
Advanced Member
Username: lc_20
Post Number: 768
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.76
| | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 12:08 pm: |
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I did find it while I was still in. I was struggling with how I was being treated. I had already found some books on spiritual abuse. So, I was web searching on spiritual abuse when I found this site. It was really eye-opening to read. It amazed me when people would post experiences from other parts of the country identical to mine right down to the vocabulary used. I was agrumentative at first defending msi/en. But, it was undeniable that there was a problem bigger than the issues I was having with specific pastors. Once armed with key techniques they used, I could more easily set boundaries and say no to them because I got reactions that I expected. As I got stronger by the grace of God, I was able to walk away. This site played a key role in supporting me through that. |
dust
Senior Member
Username: dust
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 68.52.214.120
| | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 1:11 pm: |
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I was still in EN. Print-outs were given to me by a family member that wanted us out. I was extremely UNHAPPY with EN at the time and yet still DEFENDED them. I THREW out the print-outs without reading, and then got curious, went back into the trash and retrieved.
At first, I blew it off as gossip. I stayed in EN for 8 more months, reading here and there. At times, I would be ANGRY with the people on fact net, thinking they were bitter and gossipy. I had no understanding of God's grace or what I had CONSUMED theologically,
SIMULTANEOUSLY though, I was studying the bible on my own, with study guides and spending sometimes HOURS and HOURS a day...trying to prove EN wrong in the things that were distrubing me.
And at the SAME TIME, I began to listen to downloaded sermons of Rob Bell's Mars Hill church. His teaching provided what was missing. LOVE, HEART, etc. I listened to 8 months of sermons to help me sort out my theology.
Eventually after a year of reading factnet and studying the word, I saw the truth unfold, It was like a puzzle to me because I had become so involved and invested, so psychologically, I couldn't handle the separation. I had to have PROOF spiritually that to STAY was OUTSIDE of God's will because it was a sacrifice to leave.
Then after a year, I began to post. Posting was very scary for me, but it was the first time I had a safe VOICE and was part in me experiencing FREEDOM in Christ.
The story about us in EN is that we got offended. Yes, we did, righteously offended for the truth, and we dilligently used many sources to help us, Fact Net being one important source. |
j2theperson
Advanced Member
Username: j2theperson
Post Number: 704
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.129.139.177
| | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:03 pm: |
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I searched around for information on MSI when I was considering becoming more involved with it, but the EN discussion on FACTnet wasn't taking place yet and there really wasn't any information or criticism of EN out there. If there had been, there's a very good chance I would not have joined. Or, if I did join (and it is conceivable that, at that time, in the sort of emotional state I was, I would have still joined MSI even having been told about the control and abuse) I would have entered more on my guard with my eyes more open.
I specifically remember searching for information about Jim Laffoon. There are quite a few websites out there that document the false predictions various "prophets" have made, and I wondered if he was mentioned on any of them. I was very curious what Laffoon's track record was, but, at that time, the only websites that mentioned him were ones that simply gave basic biographical data. There was no criticism of him. But, if I had seen evidence that his prophecies were off the mark or that he lied in order to manipulate people, I would have turned my back on MSI that instant and not for a moment have been tempted to return. At that time I could have overlooked heavy-handed and controlling behaviour because I had been taught that authority figures showed love by being heavy-handed and controlling. However, I was 100 percent certain that God never lied, so, as far as I was concerned, if a "prophet" of God spoke a false prophecy he obviously couldn't be a real prophet, was either misguided or outright ungodly, and any organization he was involved in was a dubious organization that a Christian or a person searching for God should not join. |
40days40years
Senior Member
Username: 40days40years
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 65.147.114.84
| | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:38 pm: |
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Well in 1984 when I would find articles about Maranatha in the periodical index (Tik like stories) I could not relate and gave the ministry the benefit of the doubt because I was not seeing that type of abuse personally. At times I thought the ministry was a bit strange/weird compared to a normal church though. One thing I always agreed with was when people said in these stories that questioning leadership was tantamount to questioning God. I would think yeah that is true. |
wisedove
Advanced Member
Username: wisedove
Post Number: 999
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 68.222.18.66
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 1:49 pm: |
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Hi, Philip.
I was in a church that I just LOVED and still do, even though God had us leave. While there, I had prayed for many breakthroughs, one of them being that they would see the truth about this particular ministry that they joined a little over or within a year of the church's existance. I did this because I felt the Holy Spirit was grieved with many things that changed and had strayed from the original plan I believe that He had for this church.
Upon feeling like I needed to do research about the terms "Covering" and Spiritual Family about 2 years ago, I came across factnet while still in my church, which was part of EN at the time. I reacted with SHOCK, SADNESS, DEPRESSION, AND AN ODD SINCE OF "WOW, I'M NOT CRAZY."
These reactions were hard to deal with, and I kept this site to myself, but still prayed, and posted. I ended up leaving factnet after about a 3-month posting spree because I started to get confused about other things that did not pertain to my experience, and because i felt added confusion, I walked away. 9 months later, God removed us (This was clearly His intervention, and not the result of ANY OF THIS, at least not directly) but we left the church that we still hold dear to our hearts, and I still hold in my prayers regularly. 2 weeks after we left, I decided to check factnet out again, and that is when I saw that my church had pulled out of EN, yet no one knew about this. It was a strange feeling, yet even though my prayers had been answered, and they were no longer a part of this ministry, God still had us leave just 2 weeks before my finding this out.
I have family still there, and miss a lot of people there, but God has a plan, for us and for them, and for whatever reason, things are the way they are for us right now. We are at a church 100 times smaller, but we just love it. God is good, and He is always working for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. |
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