| Author | Message | ||
     forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 174 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Dust and I just went to see the movie God Grew Tired of Us, an excellent film about the lost boys of Sudan who came to American in 2001. Although we enjoyed the film very much, it brought back some very painful memories for us. I feel compelled to share the story here because it says so much about our experience at Bethel World Outreach Center. When Bethel first opened the Youth Life Center at the Tennessee Village Apartments in a very bad part of Nashville, Dust and I went and helped with the opening festivities. While I was standing outside, a young black man on a bicycle rode up to me and, in a thick accent, introduced himself as Moses. He said he was a “lost boy” from Sudan and that he had just arrived in Nashville the day before. I had no idea what he was talking about. (and if you don’t either....go to the web site, or better yet, go see the movie). I talked with Moses for quite a while and he gave me his new phone number. Dust and I were part of the Church of the Nations outreach at Bethel, an ill-fated and sad attempt at reaching out to people of other nationalities in Nashville, that met every Saturday evening. Very few nationals ever showed up, so it usually ended up being just the people on this particular ministry team having a bad meal together. I usually dreaded going to this, but now I was excited. I had made a connection with someone fresh from another country and he was in these horrible apartments with 90 other lost boys and they had many needs. I invited Moses to come the next Saturday and he accepted. Of course, he could not drive, so I had to go pick him up. I called our pastor to tell him the good news and was very surprised by his response. He said that I should take this other fellow with me who was from Kenya, which made no sense to me on 2 levels. First, he is the guy Dust previously told about who came to our house drunk. (sorry if you missed it, I don’t have the energy to re-tell it here). And second, well...so much for the black and white hands praying together billboards that Bethel had all over town. So, we went to pick up Moses. On our way to church, Moses told us his amazing story which is too much to relate here, but it was exactly as depicted in the movie. (If you go see the movie, make sure you bring a full box of tissues) I will tell one thing though that was different. The group that Moses came over with was supposed to arrive on 9/11. Their plane got turned back and it took another month before they made it to America. The boys in the movie were from the same refugee camp in Kakuma, but had left a couple of weeks before Moses. To be continued... | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 175 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
When we arrived at the church, we sat down at one of the big round tables. Our pastor immediately sent over another guy from another part of Africa that was on the ministry team, and a few minutes later, another young pastor, who was also a medical doctor. However, they all ignored Moses. They started talking about the Titans, and another inane crap, completely ignoring our guest, brand new to this country and needing lots of help and guidance. I was appalled and angry. I could not believe the insensitivity and lack of concern from the pastor and the other ministry team members. I spoke to my pastor about it and was told that I was wasting my time with Moses because other churches were falling all over themselves to help the lost boys. But, Moses and I had connected and I really just fell in love with him and his friends. They were such wise and warm guys with great character and wisdom. They needed a lot of help because everything about this culture was new to them, but seeing this movie reminded me that I had so much more to learn from them than they could ever have learned from me. Dust and I invited Moses and one of his friends to their first Thanksgiving dinner. It was a wonderful time. They could not understand eating a bird and it did not appeal to them. However, Moses said after seeing so much talk about turkey on television, he had to try it. We told stories about our different cultures and had an amazing time getting to know them. We have 2 dogs that we treat like children and they could not understand this. They also did not understand why we would eat salad because in Sudan, that would mean that you were poor. You would only eat such things if you could not afford cows...and how could you attract a wife if you did not have cows? But here is the worst part of the story. My pastor really discouraged me from spending any time with the lost boys. Though I would call Moses from time to time or occasionally visit him, I mostly ignored him because I was too busy with “church” stuff. Moses had so many needs being new to this country and we had become friends...but I was not a friend to him, not like he needed. Watching this movie makes me realize just how little I know about really being a friend. I had not spoken to Moses in months when I got the news.... he was set up, robbed, and murdered. He was so trusting, so kind, so gentle, so hard working, and had such potential. He worked multiple jobs, was going to school, had learned to drive and had bought a car. A woman he knew came to him saying she needed his help...she had him drive her to a house where he was murdered and his car stolen. They found his body in an abandoned lot. There is so much I could say right now. I am so sick of Churches that seem to have no agenda but to make people feel good and then get into their wallets, and yet they never do anything for the community. I’m tired of cool and hip Churches. I’m tired of people jumping up and down and dancing to music louder than many rock concerts, but yet don’t left a finger to help those in need. I think I just want to take the time I would spend in church and go serve food to the homeless instead. I don’t want to be judgmental, because I myself have too often failed to do the right thing. I pray that God would show EN and the good people involved the error of their ways. I pray that God would kill the organization and save the people. May God be merciful...and Lord, help me to always be the man you want me to be and to always show love to your children who you place in my path, regardless of skin color, nationality, sexual preference, or social status. A very heavy hearted Forword | ||
| genesis_truth Intermediate Member Username: genesis_truth Post Number: 126 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 124.197.13.116 |
That is terrible. Really terrible. I am sorry. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 378 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
forword, One of my disciples was 15 years old and came from a very poor and abusive background that was similar to my background. She also needed a lot of help. I felt powerless and on my own trying to help her. No one else used any of their time to visit her home and to see the awful absolute poverty that she was living in and the abuse that she had to endure. Please note that now I do no believe in having disciples at the Maranatha style.I feel ashamed for being part of that system that in my opinion was evil but I did have some disciples since I was 17 years old and this girl was the youngest of my disciples. Now,I treat everyone as an equal friend even if they are more or less mature than me in Christ. (Message edited by pilgrim on February 19, 2007) | ||
| blueboy96 Intermediate Member Username: blueboy96 Post Number: 129 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.132.218.243 |
Wow, Forword ... that's just sick. What was it--they didn't see any leadership potential in Moses, so they just blew him off? If any bigshots from Bethel are reading this, chalk it up as one more person whose blood is on your hands. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1221 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
I want to encourage everyone to see the movie. Forword is right...bring tissues...You can see a group of people that God not only saved, (the Dinka) but with dignity and grace these refugees live. In the film, they spoke of God (not a lot), but just enough that they convinced me how real God is. What did I learn from this? NEVER RESIST the call of God to take action when He lays something on your heart, not matter what people are saying, and pastors are not always right. This pastor was probably so wrapped up in a WORLDWIDE agenda, that he didn't see what God had put before him, so I forgive him for that. I want to give tribute to Moses, because once you met him, you never forgot him. These boys (now men) survived on mere LOVE, for they had nothing else, and you FELT it. Part of me wanted to be angry yesterday but that would not serve the Dinkas justice. They had far more to be angry about. They fled their village because of civil war that mandated killling off ALL the young boys. Their early life was RICH with swimming in the nile, cows, rich soil, very green, and lots of love. Then the NIGHTMARE began. 27,000 young boys alone traveling across the desert with no parents, no medical help, no food, just love, just GOD. Makes me feel ashamed to ever complain about anything, and to ever miss the call to reach out my hand and do something. Forword and I are the kind of couple that aches to help people and we found ourself in a church that has no heart for that, that can't see people as an individual, that can't embrace people in mercy that can't pay them back, that can't further their agenda. EN was supposedly a worldwide ministry, so involved in racial issues, and international flags. Why didn't they know about these boys coming to Nashville and set out a welcome mat? I'm ashamed of us as Americans, because they put these boys in the WORST neighborhood, in the midst of drug deals and geographically trapped. A city with too many 10,000 square feet houses and that was the best we could do! I will NEVER FORGET the Sunday when Forword told me that the pastor wanted to ASSIGN someone else to Moses. We were working in the guest reception and I burst into tears and people thought I was crazy or someone died. It hit me that hard. Imagine how we felt when we heard Moses was murdered by thugs. I pray to God that I never MISS God's direction again and that I have the courage to follow my heart, and trust the heart God gave me. Moses did not die for no purpose, and God sent him to us for a reason, of which we are still learning. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 973 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.222.43.247 |
Wow. This film looks REALLY good. I am sad it's not in my area. Thanks for the information, Forword and Dust. Your personal story regarding your own experience with a "lost boy" is incredibly sad and tragic. It hurts my heart to read about the lack of love they showed Moses. I am sorry to say that I am not surprised, though. Prayerfully, he is with the Lord now. | ||
| sameo Senior Member Username: sameo Post Number: 1001 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.140.253.49 |
that is so sad forward, yet here is Moses still blessing you in the lessons you have learned. He forgives you, i know. I am so sick of churches period telling people HOW to live their lives, and WHAT decisions to make in their personal lives. IF a church tries to overstep those boundaries then i say run away as fast as you can. There are soooo many people who have had really valuable, wonderful God given opportunities robbed by these so call churches, men of God, pastors, whatever. The amount of control that EN and MCM and other similar churches HAVE over the people is a crime. And I'm not exaggerrating. It's ridiculous. Absurd. Wrong. My sister in law and her late husband for years worked with an organization(christian) who hosted international students. My sister in law is in Uganda as I type this. Many holidays internationals spent time with our family for dinner, etc. as they have NO where to go during our American holidays. On Friday nights they hosted a potluck dinner...and internationals from everywhere would come to their home, and it was always a joyous occasion. Forward, and Dust...interesting, our late brother in law said to us one day....hey, i met with a group of pastors in Nashville(where they lived) and this one pastor reminded me so much of that Bob W guy. He may even have visited EN to check it out for a friend. And he said wow the resemblance to MCM was amazing. Not good, he said. Come to find out....IT was RICE!!!! Now what's that tell ya?! Anyway....it could be guys, that this untimely death would have come regardless...to poor Moses. I hope you don't feel too much guilt, or responsibility. It wasn't your fault. And one thing I know, no one should tell US what to do(or should i say order us)...we are adults. NO one. ONLY GOD!!!! OR, if we seek out the counsel of wise friends. Yes, advice,(only if asked for) or encouragement is one thing...but telling a church member HOW he is to live his life...or else. I say "stick it where the sun don't shine!" it's not of GOD!!! ok sorry-this just really riles me. SameO | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 176 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Today I discovered one way I can do something to make a difference in honor of Moses. Please check out my new web page. http://my.directchange.org/page/moses I am promoting some charatible organizations founded and run by some of the Lost Boys that came to America to benefit those that are still in Sudan. Please donate only if you wish to do so. No guilt trips, manipulations, or promises of great blessings. But these are worthy causes if you would like to help some wonderful people who have had a very rough life and need a hand. FW | ||
| wildwood_ Intermediate Member Username: wildwood_ Post Number: 395 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.85.11.75 |
Oh, Forward & Dust, the Church missed a wonderful opportunity to be embraced by the love & Grace of the Lord. But, you & Dust did not and from your account of the heart of Moses; neither did he...in fact...Moses in the Bible, while denied entrance into the full bounty of the Promised Land...only living to see the "Promise" just across the river... But, later he did in deed "cross over" as he stood stood shoulder to shoulder with Jesus as Christ was transfigured on that high mountain while speaking with Moses and Elijah. And on that day Moses was a witness to the Lord God speaking as a Voice from Heaven proclaiming the ultimate fulfillment of All Promises "This is my beloved Son: hear ye him". I do not doubt that our Lord has welcomed another Moses home and now your friend stands shoulder to shoulder with Him. I wish his time here had been longer. But, perhaps, this sadness will awaken hearts & minds...that time always grows short. That there is not always a tomorrow. Sometimes, there's just a today with no guarantee of a moment beyond the now...Now is the Day of Our Salvation...Now is the time to Love Him and His Sheep. Not the Building, Not the Ministry, Not the nicely trimmed lawns, or the very well coordinated tele-coferences...the Sheep...the people...One by One...to touch those hearts that are within our reach now...be they the homeless or be they crazy movie stars who evidently have no friends to just say "No, don't cut your hair". How sad...to not even have one person who truly loves you enough to keep you from shaving your hair. Whose better off a homeless lady with real friends or a movie star with enablers and liars??? The Church should be a haven for brothers and sisters in Christ to be real friends, to share real love for one another...in truth without fear...knowing that we are all serving Jesus. All people...all types...only one requirement: Loving Jesus...then all else falls nicely into place...when He rules our hearts. Thank You Forward & Dust for reminding us of this. And prayers for your hearts. You all did redeem your time wisely with Moses...He must be telling our Lord some wonderful stories of his time visiting with you and the love of Jesus that you all shared together! And your dogs too of course!  | ||
| forword Intermediate Member Username: forword Post Number: 177 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Thanks WW You bring up somthing else that has been on my mind this week. There are all these men coming out of the woodwork claiming that they LOVED Anna Nicole Smith. Yet, it seems there was only one that loved her enough to say, ENOUGH WITH THE DRUGS, YOU"VE GOT TO STOP! And that is the guy she ran from. She was surrounded by enablers and yes men who gave her whatever she wanted, even if it was to destroy herself. How sad. So much like the example you bring up. Doesn't she have anyone close enough to her that loves her enough say DON'T DO THIS...YOU WILL REGRET IT! In the movie, one of the young men was very tall and the others looked up to him as a leader. (He is the one who started the foundations that I am raising money for BTW) He started traveling to different cities helping to bring the lost boys scattered around the country together so that they could combine efforts to help the boys still back in Africa. When he would run into boys who had started to embrace the American culture too much, caring too much about possessions and clothes, he would chastise them and say, you must not forget your culture and your people. He loved them enough to keep them from falling into the pitfalls of American culture, or lack thereof. The one thing that the Lost Boys have is each other. They truely look after each others needs because they had to to survive. Even after coming to american, they all shared their possessions, they all sent money back to Africa when they barely made enough to eat. They often worked 3 jobs so they could take care of each other, save for school, and send money back home. While in school, they would work 2 jobs. Moses shared an apartment with 3 other young men. One of them was crippled, so the other 3 took care of him and did everything for him. EN loves to talk about "spiritual family", but they really don't act like a family at all...except maybe an extremely dysfunctional one. They could learn a lot about family and about LOVE from the Lost Boys. The sad fact is, the Lost Boys did not need Bethel World Outreach Center....BWOC needed the Lost Boys! | ||
| ulyankee Senior Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 1381 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.95.171 |
Forward and Dust, thank you so much for sharing this with us. This says so much about your hearts, the Holy Spirit Who lives in you, Who is our teacher and our guide, Who compells us to follow His law of love regardless of one's position or rank... and the heart of BWOC/Every Nation which tried to quench the very heart of Christ living in you. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 2952 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
The sad fact is, the Lost Boys did not need Bethel World Outreach Center....BWOC needed the Lost Boys! Beautiful post script to your story, Forward. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1224 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Last Night Forword did a little research and he discovered that in 2001 approx, 150 Lost Boys were placed in Nashville. Since then FOUR HAVE MURDERED. Our sadness and grief was magnified because in some ways we feel responsible. We didn't ACT when we wanted to ACT. In 2004, a photographer named Jack Spencer organized the Lost Boys Foundation in Nashville. http://www.thelostboysfoundation.org/letter.html Back in October of 2001, we were greatly moved by them and wanted to DO something. My first question was why were they put in the worst part of town with thugs, drug dealers? They would have been better off with lions! Culturally, the boys easily trust, hold no bitterness and will always repond to help others. Was this the best we could do? I'm not going to just blame EN for not seeing the opportunity. Yes, they were mobilized with good resources of money and people. Bethel's billboard shows a white/black hand praying together, and the church is filled with international flags. Their mantra was "we will take the city." We brought one of their strongest leaders to the international ministry. He was not just ignored...I was there...he was treated as "less than interested." It was a drive home for Forword of despair. I remember vividly because these young boys meant something to us. THE TIMELINE: A few weeks after 911. All of America was rethinking their value systems, their priorities. I know I was. But, still, I can't blame them. I saw what I believed to be an injustice and a need. And, living way on the other side in a safe neighborhood, it was then easy to FORGET. I can see now why the movie is called GOD GREW TIRED OF US. They felt forgotten by God. We are now in another church, and I still have no idea what they intend to do for the world, other than want to be in the presence of God and build a new building. This is NOT ENOUGH for us. We really don't care if we meet in a tent. We don't believe singing loud worship songs is how we get into God's presence, but sadly I'm seeing this trend in the charismatic or spirit filled churches. God's PRESENCE is right here, right now, burning a hole in me. I've never learned anything about God from MUSIC, but from PEOPLE, who are created in his image! The Spirit-filled churches are alive in sound, but starting to seem DEAD to me. I'm may just be venting this A.M. but I am searching to belong to a group of people who take action and mean it. I see it in the secular world with Africa and AIDS. I see SOME CHURCHES getting involved. Maybe it's Nashville where the word Nashvegas seems so fitting. | ||
| ginger1 Senior Member Username: ginger1 Post Number: 1881 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.36.222.171 |
Question. : Give me a good reason that Bethel should NOT CLOSED DOWN. What is their justification that they should be kept on going ? They are not a hospital church, They don't plant churches and if they do, its always a disaster and a failure. So they steal churches. They said that people are getting born again in Muslim countries and I found out that NO MUSLIM ARE GETTING BORN AGAIN , just christians who are already born again and moving to those churches from Iran, Iraq , Saudi Arabia , Turkey etc. So they send people to plant churches , just for money reason and quantity reason. They said Mission money and worldwide tithes are going to missions, When actually its going to their pockets. So the good question is this, WHATS THE POINT OF THEIR EXISTENCE ? Even Spiritually, the church is Dead. God does not even answer any of the church leaders prayers. So these EN loyalist are defending them for what ? These people should learn to THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1227 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Correction to my statement that reads FOUR HAVE MURDERED. I meant to say FOUR HAVE BEEN MURDERED. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1923 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.193.225 |
You know that story about Moses is heart breaking. This board is about honesty and you know that I am not a fan of political correctness so here goes. Sadly some African American criminals like to victimize people that come to America from Africa. I don't mean to offend I know there are plenty of evil white people out there to. I have heard lots of stories from folks from Africa about being attacked. My friend from Ethiopia was attacked in a restroom by 2 men while doing natures call he disabled one of the attackers. Another guy I know from Ethiopia told me how some guy said: Hey whats up brother? He knew this man had stolen his stereo the day before and he was furious. It was kind of funny with his east African accent when he told me about being victimized because of the way he talked about it not because he was targeted. He said: HEEEEEY he calllled me bruttthaaaaa? He stole my stereo and he calllleedd me bruuuthaaaa? I waaaas sooooo mhhaaaaaddd! Whaat is up wittth thaat bruuutha!!! On a more humorous note one of these men told me how he was almost run over by a reckless driving cop who pulled out of a driveway speeding without lights and almost hit him. He honked and the white police officer stopped and said why did you honk? He said EEEhhhhh you driiive liiike thaaat aaaand ask whyy I honk? The cop laughed and drove off but the innocent ways of some of these people is amusing. About the dogs? I have been told by these guys that the dogs are not pets they have a house surrounded by a fence and they have big half wild dogs that patrol around it. These are mean dogs and only allow the owners to enter. This Ethioipian guy I knew had an American friend who was accepted by the dogs because he use to love to bring them meat. My friend from Iran also told me that the dogs there were not pets but big and mean and half wild there for protection. These are sweet people and it seems like it is open season on them. By the way there are some lost boys that work at the Albertson supermaket near my home in CA. I have never really got to talk to them since they seem fairly shy and reserved, they are polite but very quiet not exactly EN material. (Message edited by 40days40years on February 22, 2007) | ||
| osakadan Advanced Member Username: osakadan Post Number: 668 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 58.188.12.11 |
This board is about honesty and you know that I am not a fan of political correctness so here goes. Sadly some African American criminals like to victimize people that come to America from Africa. Are you just stupid or intellectually lazy 40? I know a few asians who have been robbed by white fellas. If I use your line of thinking........White Americans like to victimize visitors from Asian countries. You should start writing headlines for Hardcopy and Foxnews. | ||
| dust Senior Member Username: dust Post Number: 1228 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Please don't trash this thread with ridiculous statements. The picture is more: Take ANY person or persons who lived in a sheltered atmosphere, away from knives, guns, DRUGS, etc. Drop them into a neighborhood where drugs and violence are a lifestyle, and you have tragic endings. The lost boys were chased out of their country by civil war and violence, but AMONGST each other, they have enjoyed a culture of love, trust, no drugs, no violence. This is NOT about race, or skin color. It's about culture clash. Dropping men who've spent about ten years in a refugee camp into a drug ladden, violent neighorhood with bikes no cars seems cruel. It wasn't the best we could do, especially in a very prosperous city. |
