Miracle of Love / The Miracle of Love...

Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Kalindi felicita 17  1  5-21-06  6:10 pm La Gourasana Anonymous 12  1  10-13-04  2:34 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Anonymous (63.227.47.110) Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 9:20 pm:        Does anyone have any info on this group? Centers in San Diego, San Francisco area and Germany (and points in between).   kali (68.186.20.127) Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 4:29 pm:        Hello there, My name is Kali and I am also in the process of researching the Miracle of Love. My husband's ex-wife is deeply entrenched (over 12 years) in this cult. The relationship between my husband and his ex-wife started to disintegrate when she "spiritually married" Lord Gourasana. I am seeking others who are in recovery from MOL and any new information I can find. If you have anything you have found and would be willing to share I would greatly appreciate your help. My husband's little girl is the unfortunate victim of her mother's unwavering devotion to this group. They are constantly moving and the little girl is frequently left with baby sitter's while her mother staffs these workshops called, "intensives." If I can be of any help let me know. kali@lightbeings.com   Gina (64.160.164.88) Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 7:20 pm:        Miracle of Love, is growing rapidly now. MOL's intensive was designed by "Kalindi" and is based loosely upon the research of Lou Stollis. Break-em-down and win-em-over w/ unconditional love ala EST. They teach polyamory, group marriages, appeal primarily to the wealthy in order to minimize family questionings about financial donations. They also feed the sense of exclusivity and elitism to foster such. Those who leave the group rarely come forth as they have much ($ and reputation) to lose. I've spent some time researching this group, interviewed several cult experts who were forthcoming about the destructiveness and manipulation of this group. You can find a (perverse) book authored by Kalindi on amazon.com. Kalindi is a 'spiritual master' the mouthpiece on earth for the avatar "Gourasana" (her deceased husband). The teachings are based loosely upon the teachings of Shri Rajneesh, Sai Baba, Gurdjeff, EST and pop psychology. Kalindi's charismatic personality, the group-think, etc control people. The other spiritual master of the group is named Lady Gayle. I lost a loved one to the group, as I wouldn't join. have since learned lots. It is all very sad. sigh. Cult interevention specialists tell me that it is one of the tougher groups to get people out of. Kalindi is brilliant in how she's orchestratred this. Even look at this message board... everyone is 'anonymous', because the folks we are concerned about are influential elsewhere in their lives, and we are concerned about being public. sigh. good luck!   Anne Payson (24.198.37.80) Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 8:11 pm:        I am not afraid to use my name! I do understand how people can feel intimidatd about revealing their identity, and that is unfortunate. I was just always curious about what happened to my friend, because she dropped out of sight. I was skeptical from the beginning about this group, especially when I heard about the group living situation which included her baby. Don't really have anything to add, unfortunately, and am sorry to read the above post.   Anonymous (63.227.47.110) Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 10:40 pm:        With re to your friend dropping out of sight -- apparently Kalindi TELLS people when and where to move, and they do! Perhaps your friend was told to move? The group living situation is very concerning to me as my son's mother -- I'm sure they're all practicing safe sex (Yeah, right). They do have periodic conference calls in which prospects and members across the country can participate, but mostly it's testimonials from people who've just completed the Intensive, altho there is a short Qand A at the end. One lady asked what form of meditation do they use and other useful questions; Maha and someone named Amber danced around the questions and never answered it; that's because they don't seem to use ANY conventional form of anything.! BTW, Maha (age about 24) told someone that she is Kalindi's daughter and Gourasana's step daughter. I'm trying to know more about her and David Swanson before he became "Lord Gourasana", AND Lou Stolis, a psychologist from whom they are supposed to have plagarized the MOL techniques. Thanks -- and any other info appreciated !   Anonymous (63.227.47.110) Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 12:18 am:        I found a reference to Lou Stolis, whom Kalindi and David Swanson got the techniques from, at www.selfmastery.org. I think he wrowte a book, Journey toward Self Mastery, and these people are carrying on his work. Couldn't find more yet on Stolis. I did find a guy name Dennis Holz, at www.sourceseminars.com; he's managing atty for San Diego legal aid. Has a 'side job' w/ source seminars. "25 yrs spiritual avenues" 1995 began asisting Dr. Lou Stolis as faciitator of personal growth seminars. In San Diego area since 1973. Seems like he, Dr. Stolis, Kalindi, Swanson/Gourasana and Kali's husband's ex-wife all would know each other. I'm still researching Maha, Kalindi's daughter and Swanson's stepdaughter. I'm told she grew u in San D area, didn't go to college but was an EMT 'for a whle.' Hope that helps us all --   Gina (63.196.0.245) Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:13 am:        They use the GMP (Gourasana Meditation Practice). See the website for the GMP Workshop. Involves dancing, then cool down, then rest, then journaling/self reflection. It is "the meditation for the age" .. a gift brought to this world by Gourasna. See their website at www.miracle.org You can also buy a large tape see about the GMP, so that a person can do it alone at home. sigh.   Anonymous (63.196.0.245) Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:23 am:        btw, r.e. safe sex... I don't know what they do or not for protection. Fortunately, I came out clean of any STDs after my relationship, w/ a devoted MOL member! Thank heaven for small miracles. (of love???) ha! I did learn that the housekeeper of my former BF says it's all very very weird. too many women in the house, and she wears latex gloves when changing his bedsheets. deep sigh. (sorry to break the news to you, "Mom")   Anonymous (63.196.0.245) Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:27 am:        Oh, and btw, I do know that MOL has folks w/in the organization follow these message boards. it helps them better prepare their followers for interventions and objections that they will face from us 'outsiders'.   Sheryl (63.227.47.110) Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:49 pm:        Gina, I got either scammed or pitifully confused; I got messages from you and someone else with interconnecting addresses and interconnecting messages; it looked like spam/scam. Perhaps I'm just distressed and frantic; I apologize for sending such a strongly-worded message in response to your kind thoughts. I hope you can understand. I've apologized also to the other person, who, like all of us, is trying to find out what our collective reasearch tells us.   Gina (67.113.235.142) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:26 am:        Sheryl, Thank you for your kind apologies, in the midst of your franticness. I really don't know what strongly worded message you sent me... I never received it. I've been wondering that I hadn't heard from you, given the disquieting content that i'd sent. Did you receive the 2 or 3 detailed messages that I'd sent directly to your personal email? Anything else that you dig up, I'd be interested in knowing also. Also Steven Hassan, Rick Ross and Joe Szhimhart (professional counselors listed on factnet) have private files on Miracle of Love.   Gina (64.171.254.197) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 6:12 am:        Another related discussion : check out message board under Rickross.com go to 'Cults, Sects and New religious movements' then folder titled 'aritifical intimacy'   Sheryl (63.227.47.110) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:10 pm:        Thanks, Gina -- very helpful!   Gina (64.171.255.0) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:53 pm:        VERY IMPORTANT details about MOL's Intensive (week long LGAT)... somehow I'd missed the depth of this aspect of MOL's thought reform... I should know better as i'm in the medical profession with a minor in psychology... kick myself now! It is too much to duplicate here, so please forgive me for, once again, referencing another cult-info message board. but is truly enlightening and applicable! Almost everything written there about Landmark's Forum LGAT environment applies to Miracle of Love, with some refinements added by MOL organizers. Please follow these links : * rickross.com * Message boards * Large group awareness training, human potential seminars * Manipulating the room's environment You'll find it REALLY helpful. It also reinforces why I failed to get my former partner out of this. You really DO need a professional! This is far more multi-faceted than I had realized. Kalindi's warped brilliance is very effective. sigh.   Gina (64.171.255.0) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 5:35 pm:        Maybe if we draw enough attention to MOL, Kalindi will retaliate by seeing that our loved ones are kicked out of the cult?   Anonymous (63.227.47.110) Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:01 pm:        Imagine that. . .   Anonymous (66.124.255.199) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:09 am:        Yes, Wil E. K. You are a super genius. None have questioned that! It is good to see your fur standing up on end - we've caught your attention!   Anonymous (66.124.255.199) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:11 am:        aka : The Miracle of Love The Miracle of Love fulfillment church The Church of Zion GMP Workshop Kalindi Kalindi La Gourasana (remember to sing it!) The Lady Gayle Gourasana Lord Gourasana, The Golden One Davd Swanson Jim St. James   Anonymous (66.124.255.199) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:18 am:        BTW, Kalindi does not have the body for the leather thong, fishnets and spikes that she wears in her book "Union with God"   Anonymous (66.124.255.199) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:28 am:        correction : "Ultimate Freedom : Union with God" by Kalindi La Gourasana also GMP Workshop. The Meditation for this Age also Miracle of Love Fulfillment Center also MOL   Anonymous (64.160.164.179) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 2:10 pm:        More : Read useful details about the Intensive, The Lady, and extracurricular activities : www.rickross.com message board "Cults, Sects, and New Religious Movements" "Miracle of Love" hang onto your seat.   Anonymous (66.124.254.242) Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 3:59 pm:        also THE INTENSIVE THE MIRACLE OF LOVE INTENSIVE this large group psycho-babble, ala EST is the major recruitment vehicle. yes, r.e. reading the postings on rickross.com as mentioned above!   Franz (68.186.20.127) Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 8:24 pm:        I founded a Yahoo Group to help people effected by the group and need support. I had a hard time to cut lose after being a member for approximate 6 years. MOL is definitely bad news and based on fear and greed from the leader. Link to the group is: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SupportforMOLVictimsandSurvivors/ Franz   Anonymous (63.227.47.110) Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 1:31 am:        I have a concern, too, that they have changed their marketing strategy to now 'offer' a 'youth Intensive" to children of members who have already gone through at least one Intensive. The risk for serious psychological damage is horrible to think about -- the control, the mystery, the exposing deep fears, hurts, etc. -- that's child abuse!!! What happens to get a group shut down, or busted or whatever, to make it go away??   Sheryl (63.227.47.110) Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 1:35 am:        FYI -- Read the posting under the "Families/Relationships" heading on cult leaders and disciples -- has some interesting aspects from a different angle than the other 'stuff' I've read -- Sheryl   Franz (68.186.20.127) Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 10:24 pm:        The Youth Intensive is going on for several years. It is structured pretty much after the adult intensive. But way more damaging because the pre-teens ot teens are emotional opened and than released, without hardly any support, back into their lifes. The youth intensive was shadowed by the suicides of two teenagers and was shot down by Kalindi for a while. The parents of the dead kids were MOL members and it was aranged that MOL was not mentioned in the reports. However, since than only kids of parents who participated in the adult intensive are allowed to participate in the youth intensive and the disclaimers got way stronger. The so called second genaration was formed 4 years ago, as a result of the dispair a lot of the youth felt being in the emotional struggle of their involvement. The "second generation" lives in homes (3-6 youth per home)around San Diego lead by Kalindi's daughter Maha and MOL members calling themselves 'spiritual leaders". It is all a big mess and the youth acting out with wild parties, drugs and sex. And all of this is celebrated as free expression of the devine being...... Just sad!   Anonymous (63.196.0.116) Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:45 am:        Regarding The Miracle of Love Intensive participant selection and recruitment. the folks on this board understand the swaying and weakening from an LGAT environment. After six days of this ... A friend, former volunteer-behind-the-scenes MOLr, recently told me that participants are preselected by net worth and skills in order to approach them at the last day of the Intensive. It is hard because you are emotionally so open & disoriented that you can hardly say no or even know what is going on. MOL is an endless pit for money contributions and volunteer work. It is a joke that MOL is a tax-exempt entity. However, the money flows are directed in weird ways especially to contributions from Europe, because European members are not exempt from taxes in their native countries. Every contribution from outside the US has to be declared separately and taxes have to be paid in the country of origin by the foreign person. That alone is a ticking bomb................. The disclaimer and release forms got monstrous over the years; shows the level of underlying fear.   Anonymous (64.160.165.72) Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 1:12 am:        The Miracle of Love Fulfillment Center with The Lady (Gayle), who runs the Intensive. It is a 6 day Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT). The 'original' LGAT was EST. Break them down and build them up 'in our ideal'. As written in prior postings and on other public cult message board referenced above. As MOL has grown, sometimes the Intensive is run by someone else. Tapes are played of Kalindi, Goursana, and the Lady. Once the brain is made into mush by the LGAT environment, the teachings are absorbed without filtering. The claim of The Lady's Purity and compassion comes from the fact that she was raised in another cult called "The Emissaries". She learned from her father "Uranda" how to speak to 'seekers of truth' so that she could manipulate their emotions and make them believe it was devotion to God. What else could she do for a living when the Emissaries imploded and she divorced (formerly running the Emissaries with her exhusband)? Her parents had died. Her entire life had been involved with being raised by and then running a cult. It was the only thing she knew. Kalindi took her in and together they designed and run the Intensive. The sense of "Union with God" that comes from the Intensive is NOT due to love and compassion from The Lady! It is purely a rush of pleasurable (very!) brain chemistry that comes from 6 days of fatigue, low protein diet (makes one more suseptible for brainwashing), dancing (great music), sex innuendos from Kalindi, exhaustion and exclusion from non MOL stimuli. This bodily produced high from an LGAT environment is incomparable. It is NOT love! It is NOT God! It is purely a brain-body response to a finely orhcestrated brain-washing machine. Much like the high of heroin. One becomes addicted to this high which is produced from an aritificially construed situation. Real relationships can never compare to this thrill. Much like heroin, one feels driven to experience the high repeatedly, but one is better off if they never try it in the first place.   Anonymous (64.171.254.237) Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 2:05 pm:        This from another site, publicly posted about "Large Group Awareness Trainings" in general : *** The LGATs provide a sense, however ephemeral, of community and spiritual bonding that many people haven't experienced or no longer have in their lives. That these events have dark, devious undercurrents is blithely ignored by most, desperate as they are for an experience to make their life sparkle. LGATs are legal drugs, as they truly simulate the same effect as cocaine or other mania-inducing drugs. As with alcohol consumption, some people can have a drink or two or get smashed for a night, and walk away. Others become alcoholics. Legality makes addiction acceptable and puts the onus on the unsuspecting victim. Many people with stronger internal resources simply can't understand ..... how these type of events are engineered to hook you for life. And that even they could be victimized and hooked in ways they didn't know were possible. A friend used to practice his Haitian drumming while I visited. I found that at times, while reading a magazine or using his computer, I would drop what I was doing and go into a light trance state, just sitting there, unable to move. I thought maybe I was having some sort of weird low blood sugar attack, but then I would suddenly snap out of it. This wasn't a typical hypoglycemic reaction. I finally figured out it was related to the drumming and he told me that some of the patterns he played were used in all night "vodoun" rites. He had no idea these patterns could so easily induce trance states and had thought it was alcohol or drugs that did it. There is a deep spritual void in our McDonald's culture. LGATs are filling it. What can we do to counter?   Anonymous (64.171.254.237) Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 2:07 pm:        This extract is from the KUBARK COUNTERINTELLIGENCE INTERROGATION manual, July 1963. Kubark is a code word for the CIA. This information was declassified in 1997. This is from Chapter IX, The Coercive Counterintelligence Interrogation of Resistant Sources. Section I. Heightened Suggestibility and Hypnosis. Note: these are considered COERCIVE interrogation techniques. Thought the info was pertinent to this thread. "Operational personnel, including interrogators, who chance to have some lay experience or skill in hypnotism should not themselves use hypnotic techniques for interrogation or other operational purposes. There are two reasons for this position. The first is that hypnotism used as an operational tool by a practitioner who is not a psychologist, psychiatrist, or M.D. can produce irreversible psychological damage. The lay practitioner does not know enough to use the technique safely." The bold emphasis is mine. Wow, even the CIA knows that only EXTREMELY qualified people should be inducing hypnosis. As mass hypnosis techniques are applied at LGATs, is there any wonder about psychotic reactions afterwards? There's plenty of info to digest and ponder from several persepctives, here are 2 links: http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark01.htm Download pdfs here: http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark01.htm   Anonymous (66.124.254.241) Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 1:40 am:        Kalindi masterfully uses simple jingles, ala nursery rhymes, that replay in your head once you've heard them. She sings them with the simplicity, seduction of a kindergarten teacher. A simple way to bypass the analytical mind and return folks to trusting childlike innocence. e.g. to the tune of the ABCs : A-B-C , G-O-D, G-M-P will set me free.... or w/ their own tune: .. Kalindi, Kalindi, .. Kalindi la Gourasana... (Remember The Pied Piper?!)   dm (128.32.251.225) Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 8:22 pm:        Wow, came across this board after a chance conversation at the office spurred a Google search for "The Miracle of Love." A former girlfriend got into this group at her mother's suggestion (herself a new-agey phychotherapist), and it was pretty crazy. I actually talked to a few people on the phone, got some tapes and went to their San Diego facility for a workshop. There I was absolutely horrified to see pictures of Kalindi, naked, covered in flower petals, on the wall. Or worse, the picture of her in revealing dominatrix gear with a crucifix between her thighs. There were plenty of children present, dancing and yelling. I remember wondering what made this particular meditation so special since I already did it every Friday night for much less money than TMOL was asking. They didn't approve of gay relationships (this I found totally surprising for some reason), and before I knew it, my ex-girlfriend was engaged to Kalindi's son. Eventually, she left the program, but we've since lost touch. I went with my friend once to the house in Ross, CA, which was beautiful and well-protected. It was definitely a multi-million dollar compound, but it appeared that there were several people who lived there, including a wildly barking, but small, doggie.   Elf (63.196.0.47) Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 9:33 am:        Sounds like the wealthy sex cults of ancient Pompeii   elf (63.201.69.218) Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:59 am:        dm's message is disconcerting. Does this group have anything to do with someone named Elizabeth Claire Prophet? Apparently her group had/has quite a compound with an arsanal of firearms stashed. aka their story .. god told her to have such protection. Isn't Ross in the middle of a populated area? When does a group cross the line between a guarded spiritual compound, and then become "Heaven's Gate" or "Al Queda"?   Elf (64.171.254.19) Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 10:24 am:        me thinks someone is trying to stop up this board, by filling it with diarrhea. hmmm..... suspicious....   dingbat (64.169.93.42) Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 11:22 pm:        Someone at my office told me that Kalindi - the founder - has a cadre of men that service her personal/sexual fantasies for their own enlightenment.   Anonymous (66.27.108.104) Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 2:17 pm:        Hello, Just read the messages and it triggered some painful memories about my time with MOL. The strong sensation created by expressing all the rushing emotions is overwhelming and truly addictive. After a while you are taking out of realty and believe that its all about Gods grace. Unfortunately all what’s wanted is money and workforce. BTW; I remember that approximate 5-6 years ago two teens committed suicide. One was the son of a mol business leader the other one participated in the youth intensive. Does anyone remember the details around it? The MOL website and the disclaimer forms changed drastically right after it. Thanks, Paul   Anonymous (66.27.108.104) Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 2:25 pm:        Kalindi has definitely her men staff to fulfill her sexually. She experimented at some point with SM and extreme practices. One of my friends left after the abuse became too severe. However, last thing I heard is that Kalindi is not doing very well health wise. She traveled last year to Munich and appeared in San Diego for a while.   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 2:50 pm:        Am reading a book right now "Recovery from Cults and Spiritual / psychological Abuse" By Langone et al. Just like night reading about the altered states caused by S & M   Anonymous (208.42.62.21) Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 8:57 pm:        Hello, My name ist August and I'm from Europe. My former wife (MOL Member) just told me that our teen child would participate in the next youth intensive. I'm highly concerned about this and conduct some research to possible stop my child being a part of MOL. I remember my ex-wife falling into a deep depression when she came back from her first intensive. So far I researched that the kids have to be between 12 and 18 year old and one parent must have done the adult intensive and that parent has to sign a mayor release. I wonder if anybody knows some specifics about the teen suicides mentioned on several boards. I grateful for any information I can use to not have my child being a part of the youth intensive! Best regards, August   Rikky (64.171.254.107) Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 9:48 pm:        August : You have a genuine concern for your teen! Perhaps you could suggest that s/he read the postings about MOL on the various web sites? Teenhood is about overblown emotionality. Healthy, involved parents of teens teach their teenagers how to control their emotions -- rather than vica-versa. Otherwise teens become out-of-control selfish, uncaring and moody (at best!). The Intensive/ MOL teaches to allow one's emotions to rule ones' life.. unchecked. MOL followers get lost in their 'feelings', are often unable to act rationally in their personal lives, even if holding down a steady job. It appears believable that the Intensive could easily trigger a bipolar or cylothymic episode for a volatile teen ... in the extreme : resulting in mania, or suicide.   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 4:26 pm:        Did you read the thread titled "The Sky Is Falling!" Too eery. Who wrote that?   Anonymous (205.188.117.20) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 5:32 pm:        Dear August, My girlfriend staff's youth intensives and recruits. I am not in MOL nor have I ever been to an intensive, however, from what I have over heard they do have to have at least 1 parent who has done the intensive and then that parent has to sign a release in order for there children to be able to partcipate. It only takes 1 of the parents.   Anonymous (68.186.20.127) Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:37 pm:        This is bizarre. Only one parent has to sign the release forms. I wonder if that can be legal. It must be hard to sit overseas and see your child slip away. I would engage an attorney and have him look into the situation. Good luck   Anonymous (63.227.46.108) Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 11:49 am:        Re the "hold harmless" agreements (which 'guarantee" that a participant won't sue if they're injured in any way, including psychologically presumably): it is my understand that the reason is so lenthy (several pges) that Kalindi is paranoid about being sued. They think it is 'iron clad" Also, the 'do not disclose' part of the packet is to ensure that participants are frightenend into not disclosing anything that goes on. Seems to me -- as a lay person, i'm not an atty -- that that's blackmail or something: we have something you want (the Intensive) but we won't give it to you unless you do something we want you to do(sign the agreements). substitute sexual or porno pictures, money, etc. Why is it not blackmail. Also, re the do not disclose agreements -- those are pparently also extensive (usually used in corporate settings) are are designed to prevent anyone from 'talking' The prospect of Kalindi suing someone (i don't think it's a criminal issue - just civil, like a barking dog complaing maybe?? dunno -- suing someone for not upholding that agreement is kinda funny -- what would she do -- go to thejudge and complain that her kingdom of debauchery and money grubbing was hurt by someone talking about it? She'd have to disclose a lot more info that she thinks. I think. As to whether one or both parents must sign -- you'd likely need to see the agreements, so see what sigs are required. Depending onyour existing, overall agreement w/your wife, perhaps ther'es a paragraph about "health and Welfare" of the child? (this stuff I'm more familiar w/ than I'd like; much acrimony w/ ex) If so, perhaps there's a reference there that might require that both parents --not just one -- agree to this "experience" for the child? And, I'm sure you could find enough info to convice any judge that MOL Intensive isn't healthy; I obviously don't know how it works in Germany. I agree -- an attorney is the best, fastest way to get something done! Much luck; let us know how it'g going; perhaps through collective info we can all help you child.   Ann (63.196.0.179) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 1:20 am:        Hello All : I attended an investment workshop by a nonprofit financial educational group. Apparently they'd had a hard time finding a locale to rent in my county; they'd located a place that 'less than ideal'. So.. off I go, into Kalindi's den it turned out! First entered, and it clearly was a place normally intended for some meditation group, Buddhist meditation pillows, other seats w/ backrests, cheap asian-style carpets, one wall of mirrors (?)... typical prints of Hindu love-dieties, etheric-animal-spirit prints, Then... I see a print of Gourasana ala aura and all, and a framed photo... enlargement of Maha (Kalindi's daughter) photographed naked lying on her side curled up. At first I'd thought she was a young teen, later I'd realized it was the face of a 6 or 7 yr old.... a quiet child naked, watching everyone in a 'meditation' (orgy???) room. Ok, so what does THAT have to do with following one's inner divine calling? Invoking pedophilia in the name of spirituality? There I am learning how to read "Value Line" and analyze stocks, while staring beyond the power point presentation at this lovely little girl, naked, being photographed. What type of (lack of) personal boundaries are these MOL children raised with? August, if you need TWO parents' signatures for a child to board an international airplane, seems that MOL should require two parent signatures for the youth intensive. Seems that this youth Intensive could be one H**L of a lot more risky than international air travel... Best of luck to you!   Anonymous (63.227.46.108) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 2:24 am:        Amazing -- just amazing!! How could anyone think this is normal, and SO normal as to just leave the room as it usually is, and invite an outside group? Seems so brazen. I'm curious -- did anyone in the financial group comment on these photos/environment? what a sad, sad young girl; she must have been very lonely and empty.   Anonymous (63.196.0.179) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 2:31 am:        Miracle of Love teaches that to move toward God, away from this World of Pain, one must release all attachments to this world. Attachments would include money, identity with job, identity with personal drive, attachment to one's spouse. Many married couples in MOL live apart from one another. This allows them not to be overly attached to one another. They are encouraged to take various other lovers (serial monogamy or polyamory as they prefer) in order to avoid being overly attached to another person. Of course, it would be easier for a successful middle aged executive to take other lovers, than his wife who has kept his home for the last 20 years. This is in the name of furthering one's spiritual growth, to reach enlightenment this lifetime and break the cyle of rebirth. My understanding that oftentimes one member of a couple is quite unhappy with this arrangement. Deikman writes in "Them and Us; Cult Mentality and the Terrorist Threat", that the greatest threat to a cult leader's control would be true intimacy between individuals who are followers. The only sense of intimate connection for a devotee's heart can be to the Spiritual Master.   Anonymous (63.196.0.179) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 2:37 am:        From a book "Recovery from Cults" edited by Langome, from chapter 12 Guidelines for Clergy by Richard Dowhower, on pg. 254-255 (excuse the Christian bent... but IMHO this is still valuable) The Theological Orientation of Cults Religious and psychotherapy movements that violate human rights have some common theological traits. They are usually contemporary versions of the ancient Christian ... Gnosticism, the teaching that one can only be saved by special enlightenment, the privelage of the spiritually elite. ..... the revelation of the Biblical accounts was made publicly; that is God disclosed the divine identity to groups of people who were eye witnessed to historic events. By contrast, cult leaders receive private divine disclosures not subject to review by believers or critics. Some New Age cults offer the believer the hope of becoming God, a possibilty enacted by many cult leaders. Comparing and Contrasting : Religions respect the individual's autonomy. Cults enforce compliance. Religions try to help individuals meet their spiritual needs. Cults exploit spiritual needs. Religions tolerate and even encourage questions and independent critical thinking. Cults discourage questions and independent critical thinking. Religions encourage psychospiritual integration. Cults "split" members into the "good cult self" and the "bad old self." Conversions to religions involve an unfolding of internal processes central to a person's identity. Cultic conversion involves an unaware surrender to external forces that care little for the person's identity. Religions view money as a means, subject to ethical constraints, toward achieving noble ends. Cults view money as an end, as a means toward achieving power of the selfish goals of the leaders. Religions view sex between clergy and the faithful as unethical. Cults frequently subject members to the sexual appetites of the leaders. Religions respond to critics respectfully. Cults frequently intimidate critics with physical or legal threats. Religions cherish the family. Cults view the family as an enemy. Religions encourage a person to think carefully before making a commitment to join. Cults encourage quick decisions with little information   Anonymous (64.169.94.95) Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 12:23 pm:        The GMP Workshop has changed names : The Meditation for This Age, Combining Practical and Spiritual Guess they are reinventing themselves again. Now beginning w a 'benign' weekend meditation workshop, then sell folks on the weeklong intensive. The brochure has very little info. wwww.meditationforthisage.org   Mary (64.169.92.70) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 9:36 am:        Ann : Unfortunately, naked children of various ages are a common practice in MOL. Mothers bring their kids to meditation and think its great to have them experience the depths of "G". "G" = Gourasana, the Golden One. It is sick. I remember at the end of one the intensives I attended was a time when all the kids were called into a circle to celebrate the next generation. Makes me sad...   Anonymous (209.233.52.40) Posted on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 11:24 pm:        "Evaluating Spiritual and Utopian Groups" by Arthur Deikman, M.D. http://www.deikman.com/eval.html   Anonymous (209.233.52.40) Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 1:51 am:        My girlfriend said that in the intensive they begin by showing  you photos from publications, or the news on children starving, horrible photos on suffering and pain.  They encourage you to cry alot about all the pain and suffering.  If you laugh or think it is a joke they yell and scream at you, forcing you to feel the pain of all of this.   People basically work themselves up into a frenzy with emotions until some are jerking and almost convulsing utilizing alot of energy.  (My girlfriend is not american so her english is limited).  You are divided into groups and there is a group leader who works with a limited amount of people.  You can't leave to go to the bathroom or anything you must stay with the group.  Then at night after total exhaustion you have "homework" to do...I think journaling of some sort and they play movies of wars, pain and more suffering....all she wanted to do was sleep, but they keep things going.  She said she faked alot of it just to get them off her back.  The last day of the intensive everyone is appointed a position....lucky her she got to be the "whore of God" and you have to dress up in a costume and dance infront everyone.  Some men where assigned as priests and they would dance around exposing their penis.  She danced around and showed her breast and butt.  She said she felt so dark and did not feel God's love at all, but just wanted out.  I think she is upset that she participated....she is so sweet and to be appointed as one of the "whores of God" was alot for her as it should be for anyone.  It was very dark for her.  Afterwards she said she got alot of phone calls from the men and she didn't like that at all.   She says there maybe alot that she doesn't remember because it was so long ago.   From what I understand Kalindi is in seclusion.  She is receiving special, very special energy from God at this time.  This "special" energy is available to everyone if they are open.  This is a new kind of energy never available before.  They do not have to do anything special but just receive this energy.  Kalindi will bring it to them as each person opens themselves to God.   When my friend told me the above, I asked her "Why don't they just go to Burning Man? Then at least they'd know what they are getting in to" But I guess that's the point... the power of surprise and peer pressure. And elitist exclusion, where high level folks can let it all hang out, and no one will talk about it afterwards.   Marge (63.227.46.46) Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 11:03 am:        Re Mary's message above -- Yes, it is absolutely SICKSICKSICK SICK! that any parent would expose their child to MOL's distortions of "love" and "god" and expsoe them to sick sexual images; children are SOOO sensitive that even leaving/abandoning them to MOL's methods and exposing them to anything suggestive leaves an impression of some kind. And, those scars remain for a long, long, long time -- forever without counseling. And, that's just the sexual aspect. The aspect of abandonment by the parent is just as harmful; the child would, I think, feel that the parent left him/her with a pack of wolves (see The Sky is Falling, above). This is all child abuse -- it is detrimental to the health of the child. I'm a survivor of child abuse, sexual abuse, some by family member and an assault at knife point + later date rape. I think I'm qualified to comment on child abuse -- and these parents are cruel, and abusive. Yet, they obviously are under the cluches of the MOL. For the sake of the children, how to help??   Anonymous (64.160.165.221) Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 2:21 am:        Thought reform as practiced in any cult is powerful. Parents do not purposely neglect their children. They truly believe they are doing the best for their children, in fact. By pursuing their own 'enlightenment', the children will benefit also. MOL parents truly believe that they are teaching their children to be in touch w/ their divinity through enjoying the blessings inherent in physical joy. too bad they don't teach that with appropriate personal boundaries! But of course, the parents have also lost their personal boundaries from the thought reform process. Professional estimates are that when one leaves a cult, with access to professional exit-counseling, it takes about 3 years for a person to be able to fully make their independent personal decisions, and address life's inevitable conflicts, etc. However, when one just 'walks away' w/o professional help, it probably takes longer.   Anonymous (64.169.93.73) Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 9:42 pm:        I've heard of many women are are spiritually married to Gourasana, alias "G". He died a number of years ago, so they've never met him. I also know of one woman who claims that her small baby is the child of Gourasana, and she plans to raise the child telling him that "G" is his father. She is probably not the only woman who believes she has born the child of "G"... God (?!) Who is really getting these brainwashed women pregnant??   Anonymous (63.227.46.178) Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:55 am:        Could it be that these women are not sure who IS the father, given the sexual activities that take place in many MOL houses? She may simply not know, so maybe it becomes a mmot point -- she was on the road to enlightment and the baby (Acording to Kalindi, I suppose), is 'proof' of the mother's new attainment of enlightenment. So, Kalindi congratulates the new mom on reaching 'enlightenment' and God's world or whatever, through the child. And pronounces that since the baby is of the MOL house, it must be the daughter/son of the Big G sicksicksick.   Anonymous (64.171.254.246) Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 1:06 am:        Interesting thought. But IMHO, I doubt that Kalindi would declare anyone to be enlightened. The women who bear such children are probably specialy chosen and honored to bear them. What ARE the sexual activities that take place in MOL houses? Is it like any old fraternity house, or worse? do you know? I don't. It had not occured to me that the woman would not know who was the sperm donor -- but of course that is possible, err... probable! oh, so sad.   Anonymous (64.169.95.53) Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:34 am:        Promiscuity does cause a surge of brain chemistry... it is addicting. Just another form of thought reform, to keep folks' brain as mush, giving money to the group, and following the leaders' bidding. Another cult, Shri Rajneesh, that taught all about loving one another, had very loose sexual mores. Rajneesh himself maintained a fleet of Roll Royces. HIV then ran rampant through the group. I believe they have since disbanded from their former central location in Oregon. Didn't I read somewhere that a former high level MOLr from years ago knows that Gourasana died from a failure of his immune system? Apparently it was a very ugly death with bodily sores, etc. This was before diagnosis and treatment of AIDS existed. To my knowledge, the Intensive does not involve the pressure for multiple sexual liasons and false intimacy. Such is alluded to in the Intensive, and those who then fully commit themselves to the Mission and to obtain full enlightenment this lifetime will bond with the group - literally and figuratively.   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 2:01 pm:        There is NO such person as Gourasana / The Golden One. The late David Swanson used that alias as a cult leader.   Anonymous (152.163.101.13) Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 9:58 pm:        From my understanding the intensive which was attended by 2 of my friends (who did not join MOL, but only did the intensive) does not involve sexual liasons or false intimacy. It is my understanding that to "break free" one will go through times of celebacy and or times of sexual freedom. (I am not clear what sexual freedom in this group means)   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 12:48 pm:        The following links were in the German press about MOL : http://www.connection-medien.de/magazin/03jan/sekte.htm http://www.gemeindedienst.de/weltanschauung/texte/inmatmol.htm   Reminder (64.171.254.179) Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 12:10 pm:        Support group for Former MOLrs : http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SupportforMOLVictimsandSurvivors/   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 1:29 pm:        Seems MOL keeps their funds in a complicated set up of both their 'nonprofit' organization, and multiple 'for profit' enterprises that contract w/ the nonprofit. Thus they can receive tax deductible donations but really are operating quite lucratively. Also owning multiple properties for residences situations of members, but many of their legal papers are filed w/ the names of members on them, rather than MOL leaders. Keeps the 'blame' passed around, and fear of speaking out from former MOLrs   Anonymous (64.160.165.227) Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 3:46 pm:        A friend, former MOLr, told me about the warehouse in San Diego that has all the files of each individuals' personal information who ever was in MOL. Apparently Kalindi has told the believers that those who leave MOL got caught by The Illusion (the 'real world'). There will always be those who depart, as The Illusion will ever try to ensnare those who strive for God, away from persuing true enlightenment. That is the nature of this worlf of suffering that wants to continue itself. To break free from pain in this lifetime, one must commit themselves fully to MOL for their spiritual path. Those in MOL expect persecution from outsiders. Just like in Jesus's day, the radicals who accept Gourasana as the Incarnation of God will be persecuted. Isn't this was the Branch Davidians also taught, before leading up to the drama in Waco? just a thought to consider.. Guess I'm too caught up in The Illusion.   Anonymous (63.227.46.178) Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 7:44 pm:        MOL is an insidious outfit. They are truly as bad as it sounds -- no kidding! Many people and families have been terribly hurt and estranged from ea other. For more info, see www.globalserve.net/~Sarlo. I was told that Sarlo is conversative with his ratings of groups, so if he raises a red flag on these people, watch out! Below is a partial posting from his website More on Kalindi / MOL ~ from anon correspondents ~ My first correspondent has participated deeply in MOL programs, though not as deeply as her husband, which has led to considerable friction. Grist for the mill or exploitation? Some identifying details have been removed. I think that I can give you a pretty good idea of how the mind control works and how they incorporate it into the "program". However, there is so very little information about Kalindi, Gourasana [David Swanson], or their daughter. I have been researching and looking for facts. I have a feeling if I could find out what they were doing before they started MOL... don't know why but that seems like the missing piece of the puzzle. [* see below at end, pieces coming in.] Their information packets and application forms are so careful and planned. There are non-disclosure and hold harmless forms. They ask for all kinds of personal information, and disclose very little. Anyone entering the programs (Intensives and GMP workshops) are already at a disadvantage and are completely at the mercy of the people who staff. The people who created MOL really knew what they were doing, as if they all majored in mind control and airy fairy bogus faux eastern spirituality. They have the same answer to nearly every hard question, and that is that the questioner is not meditating enough, not going deep enough, not giving into Kalindi enough. There have been times that I have been on a group phone call and hard questions were asked such as "Why does MOL reject homosexuals to the practice?" Frankly I have heard differing takes on this in the last three years... One was that Kalindi found that she could only take these people so far. Then it changed in a small way, I hope I am not saying this incorrectly, but it was my understanding that MOL believed that homosexuals are holding onto something in this world (illusion) and are not ready to go on home this lifetime. It changed again about a year or so ago that only homosexual men were excluded from returning home this lifetime. Women who were primarily bisexual could do the work. I do not know what the company line is now, however, when looking at my husband's paperwork for attendance to the Intensive it still states that MOL is only for heterosexuals. As far as temper tantrums, I have personally heard Kalindi have at least two of them on group phone calls. Seems like she is especially hard on the people in the inner circle. There is usually an opened phone call on January 2nd, her birthday. Other higher ups have shown their tempers as well. I have read that the followers of Osho are sometimes the brunt of anger and there was some flak during an Intensive in Germany a number of years ago. Also a german article about an open house hosted by MOL questions were asked, and not sufficiently answered, re-asked and a kind of breakdown happened. The staffers from MOL quickly stopped the Q&A and played tapes, then gave all of the attendees a yellow rose as a present from Kalindi. Often hundreds (or we are told hundreds) of MOL people are made to get together in centers, or in MOL member's homes and do group phone calls. We all have to wait for 10 to 30 minutes on the phone with nothing happening. Everyone has to be quiet and the speaker phones must be on mute (people are sometimes bumped off the phone call if not complying). Seemed to me that many time while we were waiting to hear from Kalindi only to find out that she was not going to be on the call. One time her daughter took over the phone call, didn't really answer many questions... by that I mean that when there were questions that they couldn't actually answer they yelled at the questioner for not asking a good question. Then we were forced to listen to her diary entries which were shockingly un MOL like. She talked about going to bars, working in a bar and the futility of living life... typical late teenage angst. I think Kalindi's daughter's name is MaHa. MOL really takes over peoples lives. People change their lives at the whims of Kalindi. Kalindi decides that three people living in San Diego are now going to move to Florida... well they have to go, they cannot say no. They have to quit their jobs, find new ones, move all of their things, sometimes get rid of pets, pull up roots and leave their families. People who want to be in the inner circle have such a short leash. [A friend] is in the inner circle and she is pretty much unavailable. [Her relatives] flew out to visit her and since MOL decided they needed her for some event, she didn't get to spend much time out of that week to be with [them; other family deprivations snipped]. With another friend, they suggested that he speak with their own councilor (he calls her long distance every other week... he has never met her face to face.) She has influenced him in many ways. She has been convincing him to separate from his wife because she is not a MOLer. They also have a regular councilor locally who I think believes the husband is in over his head with MOL, but cannot say anything for fear of him bolting. My friend is getting personal and emotional advice from a woman who is in the inner circle of his religious/spiritual practice. He tells me that this is no different than a priest giving councilling... however I have told him I think that that is a grey area too rife with potential for abuse. My friend spends relatively little on MOL. He attends meditation weekly which is $15 a pop, however it is probably going to go up. A year ago it was $5 and some people were allowed to not pay if money was tight. Everyone must pay now. There are 2 meditations a week, and they are pushing him to attend them both. He also pays his councilor $60 every other week. People who live in the centers or MOL houses also pay $100 a month as a fee, and I suppose rent and utilities too. Everyone is supposed to pay $100 a month to MOL as a membership fee. The workshops cost from $400 to $700, and the last Intensive I heard about cost about $2500. There are tapes which people have to buy... my friend has a case with 24 tapes in it that have to be purchased to take the GMP workshop - $150. There are probably 100 tapes or more and each of them cost $10, with some series costing $60 to 290. Complete path to God will run you $475. There are also CD's and books. One book has some provocative photos of Kalindi with inspirational quotes from Kalindi. It is almost better than Playboy, but not quite Hustler. MOL is really good about using consistant design, and supplying all participants with loads of pamphlets and free tapes (certain ones, not the $10 ones) to give to friends and family. Even now I still get phone calls from participants trying to convince me to attend the meditations again. I get an email from one fellow almost weekly... but I don't blame him, I know it is just the pressure that he feels from everyone else in the group. It is a kind of group pressure coming from the inner circle and passed around on the outer rim. Kalindi says that she wants for thousands and thousands to come and hear her message. Therefore it is up to the already controlled to find people to bring. There are brainstorming sessions where we think of everyone we know and try to invited them to either a welcome home (for returning folks from the Intensive... the freshly washed as I call them) and open houses. MOL is smart in that they really put out the attractive folks to be their "bringers". I have noticed that the older and homelier folks tend to do more behind the scene work. They convince people to be attractive to attract people to God. They require that men shave their beards when they attend the Intensive and pass out shavers at the door on the first day. Men who already shave their beards, or do not have one must then shave their legs. At first I thought this was weird for no reason, but then it made me realize that they are putting fellows off balance by taking away a manly part of them. Makes me mad in a shallow way because I loved my husband's beard. I was encouraged to wear makeup, which I used to not wear. We were all encouraged during the Intensive to dress nicely and professionally at all times... more for the attraction of people to MOL. We were to carry Shout Wipes with us so that we could avoid stains on our clothes. There are lists of things that Kalindi wants us to have with us at all times. It is true that Kalindi even has a list of products she wants everyone to use... saves MOL people from having to make decisions at the grocery store... I was surprised to have a friend tell me that they use Kalindi endorsed laundry soap, shampoo, storage boxes. Kalindi also promotes the use of plastic dishes and cups. Kalindi makes all of these suggestions to bring God into lives. As far as I know Kalindi lives in Hawai'i with a few followers. I have heard rumors that a faction of followers who were homosexual have left the group... I am not sure if it was from pressure of the inner circle, Kalindi herself, Gayle [The Lady] or just that they got fed up with having to hide that they were gay. On that note, [another man I know] also attended the Intensive [his wife] went to. She left him because he didn't want to give up everything to be in MOL. He thought it was a good experience, but that it wasn't for him. This was about the time that MOL said that it wasn't for homosexuals. He is bisexual. She divorced him and married a much older man who was already a wealthy member of MOL. One thing that it says on your site, that I am not sure is accurate is about monogamy. There is actually a rambling book written by Kalindi (by that I mean that she talked into a recorder and workers later transcribed it) called Illusory Love Binds You, Love of God Frees You. It is a crazy making read to be sure... here is a random excerpt: "You've got to unhook the two as two separate things because they're both distinctly different. When you're having sex, you may feel parts of your true Being because you can't get rid of your true Being. Once your true Being comes through, it's in you. You're not going to have sex and leave your true Being behind. Your true Being in God is going to be inside of you, but you are still engaging in the act of material sex pleasure. Have it for what it is. Say what it is. Acknowledge what it is. Go do it, and have a fun time doing it. It's a great material pleasure, but it's not you True Self connection in God, even though at the end of sex you might both be lying on separate sides of the bed totally connecting into God. At that time, you True Self connection is happening, but it's not because of each other. It's because of what's happening inside of you with God..." and this "I want to talk to you about something that can maybe make sense to you, even though it's a very uncomfortable topic, and that is exclusivity. It's one of the biggest areas that I want you to take a look at--and this is going to happen for everybody on the path to freedom, nobody will be spared this--you cannot have self-manifestation of your True Self through these bodies if you are in a relationship that is perpetuating the lie of exclusivity. Exclusive love: "You are mine. I own you. I don't want anyone to have you." This doesn't mean that everyone has to go out and have every different kind of sexual activity either. That's not the answer. Swing clubs aren't the answer. Monogamy isn't the answer. The answer is to release your Beings of the exclusivity, exclusive love, me/mine; "You are mine. I am yours." The fact is we are all God's. We are all in God. We are all in love with each other in God. " Within relationships, what everyone is going to have to come to face is that you cannot have exclusive rights to your partner. Every single relationship that wants to break free is going to have to face exclusivity. And, there are going to be incredible relationships that develop. They're going to be free. No matter what level you're on, on this Path, you can just start to meditate about this. It doesn't mean you have to do anything about it. Just thinking about it is enough to move your feelings. Your partner is not yours to own. That doesn't mean you can't have a committed relationship, but somewhere within that commitment there needs to be the opening that frees your Being so that the love of the True Self is able to fully express itself..." Any way that is just a taste of this book about the dangers of exclusive relationships which seem to say that it is okay to have sexual relationships with people other than your partner because it brings one closer to God, however at the same time that cannot be an excuse to have sex with another person. It is complicated and confusing... not unlike most of the Kalindi writings and tapes. Well, I am frankly tired from all of this focus on MOL. I hope this wasn't too much to read. Please ask questions if you want to. I will write again about the process of the GMP and Intensive and how it relates to a mind control process. Thank you so much for being an outlet for my frustration over MOL. I hope I am not being too much of a drag. . . . There are three steps to the GMP. The first part is primal screaming, the second is energetic dancing (we chics love dancing... so that is my theory why there are so many more women then men attracted to MOL) and the last part consists of listening to a tape of one of the leaders, usually Kalindi... mind is fairly opened when the body is exhausted. The Intensive that I attended was a 6 day long event. We were instructed to wear comfortable work out style clothing. We were given each a fabric bag with tissues (there is lots of crying) a MOL notebook with instructions for each day, a writing pad, extra paper, pen and etc. A clear bag with cough drops, hand sanitizer, toothpicks, shout wipes, lip balm, hand lotion and etc. We were told that women could not wear makeup and men must all shave their beards, and if they already shaved their beards they must shave their legs. We were shuttled in our own rental cars from the hotel to the center. The center was in an industrial part of town. The center itself was very plain and free from much ornament. We arrived in a long line from the hotel and were greeted by blank faces of those volunteering to staff the Intensive. We were made to sit in rows on the floor, remove our shoes and wear "indoor shoes" which were to have been scrubbed clean or bought new for the occasion. Women were to have their hair in ponytails. We entered a large room like a warehouse with carpeting on the floors. On the opposite side of the entrance was a kind of set of risers, like in a school gym. There were a number of volunteers all with blank expressions sitting and looking at us. The ones in the front had tables in front of them, and many were writing as the days went on. A very attractive woman in her late 30's talked to us over an amplified microphone. They made us all close our eyes, and there were people yelling at those who would not... or who opened their eyes after they had closed them. People would come up to me and rub my back or stroke my arm. For a number of days we were forced to talk about traumas. Childhood, sexual, accidents, death, guilt, affairs, any bad thing that we had ever done or had done to us. We were all pushed to cry and to "have our hearts broken". We spent lots of time after each session of heart break to scream and pound pillows or other types of release to very loud angry or heart breaking music. The music would change to heart pumping dance and we would all dance until we were beat... some people couldn't keep up... then the music would change again and there would be a tape, or one of the women would talk to us about Gourasana and God in a sing-songy type voice. We would be lying on the floor crying and one of the leaders from our group would be there comforting us... sometimes the same person who was yelling at us that we weren't going deeply enough. Sometimes the leaders would get frustrated because one person was not sharing and they would tell us that they had all read our applications and knew we were holding back. In the morning of the first four days we were to wake up at 7 AM and put on a specific tape and walk the grounds of the hotel. (We all had to supply our own walkman for this.) Then we were given a simple breakfast usually high in carbs, and no caffeine or sugar and shuttled to the center. We were not given lunch but were encouraged to bring our own power bars. Sometimes we were offered pieces of fruit and nuts. We would shuttle to the hotel in the late afternoon, and given a simple dinner... we were not supposed to speak at meals, and groups were reprimanded for doing so. We arrived at last to the hotel for sleep around 11 PM, sometimes earlier or later. We were to stay with our group and work on "home work" and were not to talk about other things. At the end of the forth night we were pushed to an extra long dance, and a very inspiring tape of Gourasana (the late David Swanson). We were divided into groups and given each a designation. Some of the men were told that they were the Knights, some of the women were told that they were Brides of God, some women were given the designation of God's mistress, and others were told they were God's jester (men and women). We were told that we would have to go out and find costumes to complete this image. It was the first time that we were allowed to be out in the non-MOL world... until that time our every waking moment... and even our time sleeping... had been completely dictated by MOL. The next day the volunteer staff of MOL put on a huge party for us. Each group had a chance to take the floor and dance. The DJ had made a special mix of music for each group, and the participants all danced very hard. Many volunteers and participants cheered on. After the dancing the participants were each lead to a chair and were given water and gatoraid and a towel. The last day we were told to dress nicely, and most of the day was dedicated to MOL stuff, like the books and tapes available... thinking of other people we know that would like to come. Some comments about the transformations people had experienced. There was a video tape of Kalindi. We were all given a rose, and people started leaving. Later, when participants returned home the center at home would host a "welcome home". In this the participant would share their experience with friends or family members, or just other people who were invited to find out more about the experience. There is also an Advanced Intensive, a Youth Intensive (14 to 18 year olds) and a series of GO DEEPER days, some lasting for a week to 30 days. These induce participants to take only cold showers, eat a very simple diet such as oatmeal or rice for every meal, giving up caffiene and etc and are called "austerities". It should be stated that a prolonged diet concentrated in carbs makes the mind more prone to suggestion. It is a ploy used in prisons to control inmates. People cannot run off and join MOL, like you would the circus. MOL maintains that you are financially responsible and that you continue to earn a living. There are no free rides with MOL, with the possible exception of Kalindi. (Sorry couldn't resist the last little dig there.) MOL creates its own 'miracles' 'spontaneousness' and 'history'. MOL maintains that David Swanson gave his body over to God and became the "golden one" Gourasana. David died in the mid 1990's and therefore cannot speak for himself... so Kalindi does that for him now. They tell us that David did not really die, he transcended this life. There is some rumour that he died of cancer. Not sure. There was some talk that the doctors did not understand the presents of God within him and did not diagnose his death properly. It is hard to find facts about any of this. Kalindi's roots are difficult to discern as well. * A couple of correspondents have indicated a source for MOL's "innovative" methods. That the methods are effective in their way has been attested to by numerous people. Less well known is the source, Lou Stolis, a psychologist who died in 1999(?). He is said to have developed these methods and Kalindi and David Swanson used them without acknowledging their source. One of my correspondents has written: "It is true that Kalindi worked for Lou doing enrollment. She wished him to take on a 'guru' role and he refused. She then started MOL with her husband and directly used the processes and format Lou had used in his training. I do not believe she gave Lou credit or mentioned him. I know his wife went to one of their introductory meetings and confronted them about it. They didn't have much to say."   A.G. (64.160.167.124) Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 9:20 pm:        Whoa! A friend just showed me this.. like dm (above) I'd been having a conversation at work about someone who seems to have disappeared from our lives after becoming involved w/ MOL. Another friend of mine.. 50ish woman.. from Belvedere, not far from the house that dm mentioned above in Ross... this friend told me about her incredible yoga teacher from Marin County. To obtain the certification from her spiritual group, for her to teach the yoga classes, among other things she had to masturbate in front of six people. Is this the same group?   Anonymous (64.160.165.18) Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 2:30 am:        Carol Seidman = “Kalindi” David Swanson = Gourasana Nancy Meeker = The Lady Michael Cecil (Exeter) of The Ashland Institute = Nancy Meeker’s exhusband Maha Kristine Swanson (?) = daughter of Carol Seidman, stepdaughter of David Swanson   Anonymous (64.160.166.149) Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 11:35 pm:        David Swanson / Gourasana is dead for many years now. I want to know why there are babies now who are touted as having Gourasana as their father. WHO is really the father the father?? and under what circumstances / coersion did the conception take place??!   Anonymous (64.169.93.142) Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 3:46 am:        Miracle of Love has greatly diminished the content of their website. One now must phone them directly to be screened and/or receive a sales pitch for any info about the Intensive or their programs. Cannot purchase, etc, materials from the website any longer. however, when searching on 'google', can still bring up old versions of the web site. Given the recent surge of postings about MOL controversies, could this have something to do with the changed cyber-presentation? Hmmmm. check it out : www.miracle.org   Must Read (67.113.235.186) Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 3:15 pm:        http://rickross.com/mind_control.html   Word from the Sponsors (67.113.235.186) Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 3:25 pm:        http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/faq/ http://www.factnet.org/headlines/destructive_cult_warning_signs.html?FACTNet http://csj.org/ http://www.csp.org/development/code.html?FACTNet   Anonymous (64.169.92.8) Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 9:15 am:        For Satorical Chuckles: check out on this message board: folder titled "Funny Papers" the thread titled "The Sky is Falling" Kalindi is such a fox!   Anonymous (63.227.44.101) Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 2:26 pm:        > >This was sent to me by a former MOLr, for public posting. He requests to >remain anonymous: > >The thought reform process in the Miracle of Love is slow and insidious. >There is a difference between a person who merely takes the Intensive, vs >one who actually joins MOL. Those who 'join MOL' however, have been >targetted during the Intensive for their naivete, their ease of >suggestibility, their money, and work skills. > >Miracle of Love's major method of recruitment is by having brainstorming >sessions with members gathered while they list everyone they can think of >to invite to the Intensive. MOL now also advertised their workshops for >"Meditation for the Age" through health food stores, alternative healing >centers, etc, but there is very little information about the GMP workshop >in their promo material. Likewise with recruitment to the Intensive, >potential recruits are told that "It is the greatest Love you can imagine >in that room" "Youl will have the opportunity to experience your self in a >deep way such as you have never imagined." "You will be able to release >all the past pain that is holding you back in life." "You will emerge >feeling renewed and reborn, ready to face life with new direction." > >So, from the very beginning with the lack of information - but receiving >guidance from trusted friends, to the extensive application and interview >process - one has already surrendered a degree of analytical thinking just >to attend w/o further questioning. Also, the application process requests >great detail about "what issues are you planning to work on in the >Intensive". Already folks are revealing more about themselves, than they >are given in information about the workings of the MOL. > >For the Intensive, the emphasis on 'comfortable simple clothing, no make >up, no hair-dos, clean shaven, everyone given the identical comfort-bag, >roommate assignments, separation of spouses, group transportation to and >from the site... all of this serves to begin the process of stripping one >of one's indivudality, and just moving into a group momementum. (think of >other 'sameness groups'... monastaries, convents, hospitals, Maoist China, >the military). This sameness, lack of individuality, is a very efficient >way to accomplish tasks... surgery, war, etc. > >In the Intensive, the constant purging of one's depths, and listening to >everyone else is emotionally depleting. People find themselves curled up >in a corner, agains the wall just sobbing. This is something one usually >does in private, not in sight of others. Slowly the privacy boundaries are >erroded thus. Dancing to dynamite music mixes, with a reptitite drumming >beat is used to work people up into a sweating frenzy for release, and then >slowly the music cools with the leader speaking hypnoticaly about releasing >and relazing. Sweaty garments may be shed. Strangers - "spiritual >volunteers here to provide for your comfort and support for you in this >loving setting" - will tenderly wipe the sweat off the brow of attendees, >hug them tightly when exhausted, wipe their tears, remove the used >Kleenexs. The Instensive leader will scream into people's faces with such >things as "You are just a selfish bitch!" "You are an egomaniac"!. > >all of the aformentioned are the sorts of things that usually would occur >only in the most private, intimate of moments for people. Slowly, slowly >over time, repeated meditation groups, etc, those who are devoted to being >on this path repeatedly are accostomed to such public display of personal >intimacies. They become accostomed to responding to Kalindi's dictates to >remove their sweaty clothing, allow youself to abandon yourself to your >passions, release your ego, there is only the experience of God here! >Touch yourself as you choose here, yes like that, God gave you a body to >enjoy and express your Divinity in human form. > >There are strict domestic guidelines for how to conduct one's home.. home >organization, closets, drawers, kitchen, what household products to buy, >etc. All of this austensbibly to free one's soul for spiritual growth, and >not be concerned by day to day decisions. The reality is this all a dupe >to shut down the analytical mind on a daily basis, and relinquish decision >making to MOL. > >While in the Intensive, there is the emphasis on uniformity and lack of >make up etc, outside of the Intensive, folks are encouraged to dress well, >wear make up, etc in order to attract others to MOL. Also, when inside the >Intensive, you are being your true spiritual self, outside 'In the world of >pain and suffering, where nothting can be trusted" you must put forth a >different image than that which is inside the group. This contributes to splitting the psyche of the individual. This internal splitting is >furthered by the assignment of MOL names such as "Kalindi" ,"The Lady" , "Gourasana" ,"Valentine", "Dove" ,"Mercy Magdalen", etc, etc. By splitting people to the point of having an 'inner name' used in MOL, and an 'outer name' used at their work etc, a person gradually learns to identity what they consider their TRUE being, spirit, emotions, to be those within the MOL cult - whereas outside of MOL is their false self. The person loses the abilty to communicate meaningfully with people outside of MOL. > >MOL keeps their followers very busy with so much spiritual work that must be done. Fund raising, telephone calls, volunteering for events, writing >letters to people, etc.. gradually the person loses interaction time with anyone outside of MOL, other than their job (must keep the job, and the $$$ rolling in!) >This is especially detrimental to children of MOLrs (or any cult). > >The sexual favors, individually and in group take place as a means of support and expression of caring for one another. Of course those who have the most to offer Kalindi, in terms of money and useful skills for managing the organization receive the most favors. It is a great honor to be invited to be Kalindi's lover. To experience God's love (Gourasana's love) through Kalindi, his wife and his Voice on Earth! She IS skilled! She also has an S & M streak which she used to use with her personal boy-toys. I don't >know if she still has a SM streak. I left. > >Women are sent as spiritual healers to help the affluent male members. Kalindi teaches that individual commitment between a couple is an >attachment that can keep someone from enlightenment, can deter one from the >path to Home. The conflict that one feels, when 'bored' with monogamy is because the Lord Gourasana is calling the person Home. There are those who marry in groups of four, rather than two. True individual commiment and intimacy would be a threat to the dominance of Kalindi and The Lady. > >Couples have been told that they are too attached to one another and they should live apart for while, and try being with others for variety. The attachment is keeping them from coming Home. They couples do this. >Sometimes gladly, sometimes not so. The sole purpose is the continual errosion of their personal boundaries and self determination. No one would attend the Intensive if they were told this up front. This only happens after years of commitment to this group. Sometimes the couples return to living together, and are so much more appreciative of each other (Oh, Kalindi and The Lady were right, this was such a good break for us! We appreciate each other more than ever now!). Again, it is deferring responsibity and acknowledgement to the guru, rather than to themselves. > >There are MOL houses where groups live communally, those who want to delve onto the fast track to God. There are Men's Houses and Women's Houses. Again, none of this comes out initially, it is all slowly by quiet indoctrination, praising one step at a time, and indoctrination into higher levels of secrets only for the most devoted, most likely to reach God this >lifetime (most maleable, trusting, with money and skills to provide for the group's profit). The MOL homes are not in the best of neighborhoods.. because the Leaders's compounds in Ross and Hawaii are costly to maintain, >that is where the funds go. > >As I write this, the residents of the Men's Houses and Lady's Houses have all been told to move. And, naturally, they are doing so, because they are now well trained automatons responding to the whims of MOL. Now they will be moving around and living in communal houses. Whatever is the next step for them, they do not know, and do not ask. Without a doubt, the leaders >have the direction carefully orchestrated - just as they carefully orchestrate and change the Intensive regularly. > >Again, once one is so indoctrinated to the idea of The Lady and Kalindi dictating every detail of one's life, this eventually becomes normalized. > >The orgies, sexual rituals, etc are all just part of the breakdown of real intimacy, and are merely dictated ritual which MOLrs have been led to >believe is the experience of God. The inner experiences are REAL, however they are simply from contrived disorientation and hypnotic suggestion. > >When leaving MOL, folks have a very hard time living with our memories, after having our real values so overtaken step by step. It is a long >painful road to forgiving ourselves for misleading others into this. It is even harder to allow ourselves meaningful communication with anyone outside of MOL We don't know how to say 'no' to anything any more. But we don't >know what we should say "yes' to. We've lost the ability to make >independent life decisions, being so accostomed to seek guidance from "G"(Gourasana), or the MOL therapist (who does not maintain anything >confidential, by the way). By the time of leaving, we are so afraid of the deemed road to "infinite pain and suffering in this world", we have been so trained to believe that outsiders are a threat. This world as hell so to >speak. We feel like we can never reach God now. We usually question any and all that reference to 'God'. It is a terrible thing to strip good >people of their spirituality. Step by step one does recover and life goes on. Life outside of MOL is wonderful, beautiful. There is much LESS pain outside of MOL than inside of MOL. > >Hopefully the scars will fully heal one day. They will remain always.   Anonymous (63.227.44.101) Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 2:54 pm:        I don't know why this didn't appear below the posting from my Anonymous friend, but here's what it said (I hope iti ends up in the right place this time) The "anonymous" posting above reveals the true depth of pain of those who have been in this horrific organization. And, this is just one person; I am told there are many, many others. I wish they knew of support such as the Rick Ross site etc. mentioned above, as well as the cult experts. I have deep respect for former MOL'rs to leave their 'home' which has kept them safe frm the outside "Illusory" world, stripped them of the self confidence;self reliance of making their own decision. They must reconstruct themselves just as a brainwashed prisoner of war must do. Some are making this transition, others are in the shadows, intimidated by MOL. It's hideous what they do to people, including a member of my family. My loved one's involvement has a huge and ugly effect on our family. That's for a different posting. Again, my heart goes out to these very brave people.   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:03 pm:        Interesting that you make the comparison to prisoners-of-war. The late Margaret Singer was a well known psychologist, professor at UC Berkeley, cult expert, exit counselor, etc. Dr. Singer began are research into thought reform and the cult-shock reacclimation process when she in the US Military, working w/ brainwashed American former POWs. From that initial work, began her life work working with all forms of thought reform, cult manipulations and recovery processes. BTW, she also wrote in her books about the multiple threats she received by various organizations for her work. And she explained, how despite the threats, she continued her unrelenting attacks on cult mentality/control because of her concern for the children in such groups.   Anonymous (63.196.0.78) Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:14 am:        It has been brought to my attention that an early posting on this thread from "kali' is a message from a woman claiming concern for her step children being raised in MOL. This message was signed from ‘kali@lightbeings.com’. I was recently informed that “lightbeings’ is probably an MOL-related outfit.   To MOL : (63.196.0.78) Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:15 am:        An Open Letter to the Miracle of Love and their affiliates: You may cease your harassment of myself, and others, through electronic and other means. To my knowledge, there is not a coordinated effort to ‘bring MOL down’ so to speak. It is understood that as long as humanity has pain and loneliness, there will be those who profess to fill such voids by self-serving means. The rights to freedom of speech, and freedom of thought, are integral to humanity. The sole purpose of publicly posting, is merely to share information with those who are seeking such. And to provide support for those looking beyond their experience in MOL. To my knowledge, there is no effort being made to infiltrate MOL by ANY means. Folks have more important things to do, quite frankly, as they move forward in their own healing and productive lives. You are a strong group, and have powerful connections. No one questions that. It is assumed that MOL will live long and prosper, as have many other groups of this type (just look at the array on these cult-related boards).   4 the Recovering (63.196.0.78) Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:17 am:        An Open Letter to Former MOLrs and their loved ones : I have been blessed / cursed to learn ‘everything I never wanted to know about thought reform and cults’ in the previous year. This has been a wonderfully growth-producing experience for myself! The stories which so many of you have openly shared with me are both tragic, and inspirational in your efforts to move forward. Thank you for sharing your courage. If you continue to feel fearful of posting directly, and send information to me privately, I will continue to make it accessible publicly for the benefit of others. I believe (and hope) that I am correct that MOL has not assaulted nor defamed anyone who left their fold. The one exception, of which I am aware, may be the children bound up in custody issues. What I have termed the mind F**Ks are real, but they are internal, and largely conquerable with appropriate support. It is comparable to fear of an invasion of gnats – they may cloud your vision for a while, and be incredibly irritating. But in reality, the shadows from MOL, the swarm of gnats, are the vestigial Illusion from the Miracle of Love. May you feel free to honor yourselves, and others, with honesty and continued courage. Your strength to move on, to forgive yourselves, to claim personal liberation, to acknowledge the joy you felt from your MOL experiences, as well as the entrapment, can empower you throughout your life. Blessings   Chicken Little (64.169.93.29) Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:14 pm:        Videotapes from June's conference at the University of Alberta are now available. Tapes are $20 each plus shipping and handling ($3 each U.S.; $4 each Canada/Mexico; $11 each Pacific Rim; $9 each other countries – contact us for special shipping rates if you order 4 or more videos). Your purchase helps AFF continue its research and educational activities. The videos are listed below. Also printed below is an order form that you can use to e-email your order; or you can print and mail/fax the form to us. Contact information is at the bottom. Circle the videos you wish to order. Cults & New Religious Movements 2004 Edmonton Conference Videos § Welcome and Introduction. Cultic Studies 2003: The Year in Review. David Kilgour; Lloyd Egan; Alan Scheflin; Michael Langone, Ph.D.; Marie-Andree Pelland § Individual Variation in a High-Control Group. Maureen Griffo § Polygamy's Impact on Children. Mike Kropveld (Coordinator); Andrea Moore Emmett; Vaughn Marshall, Esq.; Debbie Palmer § Innovative Approaches to Self-Help and Support.; A New Approach to Support Groups for Ex-Group Members (Michael Martella). Towards a Scientific Evaluation of the Dangers Posed by Religious Groups Stephen A. Kent, Ph.D § A Panel of Former Members Discuss Authoritarian Culture and Child Abuse. Nori Muster, Coordinator; Steven Gelberg, M.A.; Steven Hassan, M.Ed., L.M.H.C., N.C.C. § Update on Spanish Research in Cultic Studies. Carmen Almendros; Jose Carrobles, Ph.D.; Miguel Perlado § Children in the Unification Church. Donna Collins, Coordinator; Eileen Barker, Ph.D., Dan Fefferman; Louis Desloge, Lorna Goldberg, M.S.W. § The Cult Phenomenon in Japan. Court Cases Involving Aum Shinrikyo (Hiroshi Hirata, Esq.); The Supreme Court has Declared that Recruitment Techniques of the Moonies are Illegal in Tort Law (Shuji Nakamura, Esq.); Cases of Children Who Have Been Abused by a Small Cultic Group (Masaki Kito, Esq. & Takashi Yamaguchi); Legal Report from Japanese Courts (Hiroshi Yamaguchi, Esq.) § Children and Cults in Latin America: Kafkian Scenarios and Human Rights. An Overview of the Current State of Affairs Regarding Children's Rights in Latin America (Jorge Erdely, Ph.D., Coordinator); Children and Women as Human Cargo: Cult Strategies to Cross Borders Illegally – A Case Study (Lourdes Arguelles, Ph.D. & Anne Rivero, L.C.S.W.); High-Demand Catholic Sects: A Comparative Study Using the GPA Scale (Cesar Mascarenas, M.D.); Why Victims of Cultic Sexual Abuse Keep Silent in Latin Cultures: A Psychological Perspective (Juan J. Vaca, MS.Ed., M.Th., M.Ph.) § Case Studies from Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center. John Wick § Philosophical and Literary Perspectives The Conscience of a Child in John Henry Newman (Kevin B. Fagan, Ph.D.); The Grammatical Fiction: Totalism,Solipsism and the Dispensing of Existence in Modern Literature (Gordon Neufeld) § Charismatic Groups: Varied Sources of Controversy. Quest for Khalistan: Sikh Fundamentalism in the Present Era (Maryam Razavy); Gwen Shamblin, Weigh Down Workshop, Remnant Fellowship, and the Cult Controversy (David Clark) § Influence Processes in Charismatic Groups. The Cult Phenomenon: How Groups Function (Michael Kropveld & Marie-Andree Pelland); Fear in the Psychosocial Universe of Apocalyptic Groups (Lorraine Derocher); Altered States of Consciousness, Hypnosis, and Mind Control (Steven Hassan, M.Ed., L.M.H.C.) § Born or Raised in Cults: Clinical and Developmental Aspects. Growing Up In Cults: Impact on Social/Emotional Development and Adapting to Society After Leaving (Leona Furnari, M.S.W.); Born or Raised in Cultic Groups: Impact on Character Development and Relationships (Lorna Goldberg, M.S.W.) § Violence and Charismatic Groups. Women and Violence: The Conviction of a Canadian Charismatic Leader (Renee Brodie); The Vengeance of the House of Jacob: Youth and Violence among the Dreamers (Gordon Drever); Heaven's Gate: A Dysfunctional Perspective of the Body (Susan Raine) § Sociological Research from the University of Montana. Robert W. Balch, Ph.D., Coordinator; The Rise and Fall of "America's Most Dangerous Cult": The Love Israel Family in the 1970s and the New Millennium (Katherine Marxer); The Trouble with Stereotyping Hate Groups: Aryan Nations and Elohim City (Wesley Delano) § Contextualizing Falun Gong: China, Human Rights, and the West. Jorge Erdely, Ph.D. Lourdes Arguelles, Ph.D. § Biological and Developmental Aspects of Influence. Dietary Aspects in Sectarian Groups: A Social-Psychological Perspective (Jessie Meikle § Where Does the "Evil Cult" Label Come From? Anti-Cult Lingo and the Persecution of Falun Gong. Huixia Chen; Patrick Turc; Jason Loftus § 2004 Margaret T. Singer Lecture: Philip Elberg, Esq. (Presentation of Margaret T. Singer Award to Mr. Elberg by William Goldberg, M.S.W.) Name Address City State Zip Country Phone(s) Fax E-Mail Payment Check [ ] CC Number ______________________________________________________ CC Exp Date _______________________ No. Videos: ___________ Amount: $ ___________ Shipping: $ ___________ Total Amount Due: $ ______________ P. O. Box 2265 ¨ Bonita Springs, FL 34133 Phone 239-514-3081 ¨ Fax 732-352-6818 aff@affcultinfoserve.com www.culticstudies.org www.cultinfobooks.com www.culticstudiesreview.org   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 8:50 pm:        When I was with Miracle of Love, we engaged in unimaginable sexual activities together. I cannot believe my own memories! In the name of experiencing divinity.   Anonymous (66.81.166.28) Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 9:41 pm:        Those poor teenagers.   Anonymous (205.188.117.12) Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 8:00 pm:        What, exactly, is the drug cocktail they gave us? and what does MOL do w/ the photos and videos of us?   Anonymous (63.201.69.218) Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 4:41 pm:        Supposedly Kalindi was a Hare Krishna before founding MOL, and The Lady was an Emissary. What group was David Swanson, ala Gourasana, with before they founded this group? Did any of them spend time w/ Rajneesh or did they just copy many of his teachings and methods?   lilygirl (lilygirl) New member Username: lilygirl Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 3:13 pm:        Help me! I need real, factual stories of people who went through MOL experiences personally. I'm researching for two reasons-one an issue with my husband's ex-wife-no, I'm not the same girl who posted earlier. The life decisions of the woman in question and the mindset she has now is quite troubling and she's been known to expose the children to very questionable practices and people. She's so deceptive, I can't believe what she tells me about MOL. She's very angry and suspicious of me now that she knows I have so much info about it and I'm afraid she'll alert other MOL members to the fact I'm researching. Also, I am a professional writer and I'd like to do an expose on the subject. I can assure anonymity for anyone willing to share his or her stories.   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.201.69.218 Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 4:25 pm:        Lillygirl, I've been trying myself for the same; am also a writer. No such luck. Mostly only the likes of you and me coming forward w/ the stories of others. Seems that those w/in the group who 'wake up' and leave are so filled w/ sense of shame and betrayal / manipulation that they don't talk. Hopefully that will change. Must be outrageously painful for them to realize how they've been 'had' in the name of God.   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.254.100 Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 11:21 am:        Since David Swanson aka Gourasana died a number of years ago, who is fathering or donating sperm for the babies that are now deemed to fathered by him? and under what circumstances? Is there a ritualistic conception ceremony (as written about in the "Da Vinci Code")? or just a more-or-less sperm mixing during an orgy, once the maternal-receptical reaches a certain level within the Miracle of Love?   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.254.100 Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 11:30 am:        Kalindi as a former Hare Krishna. How much carries through in the organizational behaviors? Can ask the same about the Emissaries and The Lady. In the current issue of "Cultic Studies Review" a peer reviewed professional journal published by AFF (www.csj.org), there is an article about the extensive child abuse that took place in the Hare Krishna youth homes for children. Apparently there is currently a law suit pending from 400 adults, who were raised in the Hare Krishna (ISKCON) group, about their extensive abuse. One cannot help but wonder how much of same occurs in the current MOL Youth Houses that are run by a few select adults. Anyone concerned about MOL youth should probably read the article.   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.227.44.101 Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 8:04 pm:        Re the seeming 'shame' of the former MOL members. . .IMHO the people who are under the mind control of a sick person like the leaders of this group, are simply NOT themselves. In reading threads on the Rick Ross site, I learn the former mbmers are so controlled, so under the influence of the leaders, they will do just about anything. Even sick things. IMHO, this is exactly what MOL counts on: members to do things that would be otherwise unacceptable to the outside world, and then use that info to both make the outside world "evil" or "unenlightened" etc., AND to maybe use as leverage, maybe "I have a photo of you with another woman; if you leave the group, maybe I'll show it to her." Or, "I have a photo of you doing _____, and if you want to see you son/wife/daughter/hubby, you won't puruse getting him/her out" of MOL. So, i think it's understandable why folks in that situation are so frightenend by coming forward: they have a great deal to lose. How sad for everyone, esp them and those they care about. I feel, tho, that the person under MOLs control is NOT NOT NOT the 'real' person, does not have their moral values, and does not have their real sensibilities. I think that's what MOL is counting on. But, if the former/hoping to be former members could just know that that MOL-version of them IS NOT NOT NOT them -- just a shell invented by MOL to do MOL's bidding. If someone held a gun to my head, and said Ishould rob a bank, I sure as h** would rob the bank! Same-same w/ this. I would do what I felt I had to do, and I would feel like I had to, because of MOL's control. This emphasies the importance of the educational outreach and publshing that some of the sites do, so that family members and society in general can be informed that mind control IS such an insidious thing. We worry about hang-nails and housing covenants, but who is to worry about those in the cults? And their children??   kellie (kellie) New member Username: kellie Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.25.167.142 Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 12:52 am:        I've done the Intensive twice. Both times were very valuable to me. The 2nd time was incredibly helpful as I was going through a divorce at the time and I credit it with how well I come out of that difficult time. Since doing the Intensives, I participated in several meditations but after a few months of that I've moved on. For a while I'd go to a party or see others in the community around. Anytime I was asked to do something I didn't want to, I declined---no big deal. I'm a bit dismayed by the "black and white" way of looking at the Intensive... I participated, got immeasurable value out of it and have moved on. I haven't communicated with anyone from MOL in 2 years (???) though if I did, I would enjoy talking to anyone of them again. I'm sorry that anyone may feel victimized by MOL. Yeah, it's a wacky organization, but I don't believe anyone is lead anywhere they don't want to go. A cult? It’s what you make of it….   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.171.254.73 Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 5:20 pm:        IMHO, lots of groups have benefits to be gained.. the self reflection, meditations, etc. It's when someone jumps headlong and relinquishes the ability to make own personal decisions, and become inolved with the group to such an extent that 'outsiders' are a threat.. that is when a group acts as a cult. Am curious, though, what makes you write "Yeah, it's a wacky organization." What aspects did you find 'wacky'? Tx   franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 7:46 pm:        OOOH! Wow! Another Californica New Age Cult with a Guru and everything! They meditate and have intensives! Golly Gee, just what everybody needs! Where do I sign up? Where do I send my money? Can I move in and live commune style? I'll sell my house, my car, my kids anything and give it all to the Holy Guru. Do I have to cut off my genitals too? Anything the Guru says, I'll do. I'll suck their toes if they want. I'm a good little toe sucker! I'll be a good little convert. I won't eat much and will work hard so the beloved Guru can live a lavish lifestyle! Californica is such a great state. They've got a guru just for me! They don't call it LA LA Land for nothing!   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.160.165.83 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 2:35 am:        Franklin : Elsewhere you posted about being a loving "Christian" attempting to help those who are in cults. It's not for me to judge; but I wonder - would the above remark inspire those in need to listen to you? Seems to my peabrain that a loving God would not be exclusionary - regardless of someone's geographic location or persuasion. Or maybe God did not create Californians? That would not explain the people who belong to Miracle of Love, or other groups, in different states though. Please, respectful dialogue is valued here. Outright name calling of those who are trying to find a connection or truth, however misguided, does not help anyone. thank you. (Message edited by felicita on November 23, 2004)   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.160.165.83 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 2:43 am:        More food for thought : Take a look at what this guy wrote! http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/print.php?id=12954   franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 198 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.148.54.249 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 9:41 pm:        My point in a nutshell is to exhibit, with sarcasm, how gullible and deceived those who are in this cult are. And how intelligent those who saw the light and got out are. All cults are the same. Just the lies they tell to enslave people are a little more diverse. The naive ones in cults tell themselves that their cult is different than the others. That their's is the true following. All cults are insane. Just like the character speaking I created above. I think I said more about how ludicrous MOL is in 7 lines of sarcasm than this whole thread does. I got your attention didn't I? As to California, yes, it has a bad reputation in the rest of the nation. Seems like the wackiest cults come out of California. Maybe you don't appreciate my satire. But when I read someone trying to explain some worthwhile value coming from a dangerous cult, I do something drastic to get people to wake up! Down with cults! Down with MOL!   bvfrose (bvfrose) New member Username: bvfrose Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.53.47.76 Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 2:29 am:        Looking for “The Lady”? She hangs out at Bright Valley Farms, a horse-boarding stable in Spring Valley, Ca. She has one of her groupies living with the owner. We think they are in the process of taking over the facility. The owner has been to an “Intensive” and seems under their control.   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.201.69.218 Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 4:08 pm:        Interesting. Do you know, bvfrose, is this how MOL 'obtains' many of their properties? Most of the "MOL Houses" are not legally held in the name of the organization, but in the names of individual followers. Yet the individual MOL members who live there, each pay their rent to MOL.   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.255.131 Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:59 pm:        BVfrose, Do you also know where Kalindi is now? The mythology says she is in seculsion, receiving more special energy from God. It is so much that it is hard for her body to take all this energy. Who uses the large home in Ross, CA? It has also leaked out that Kalindi is quite ill; was in Hawaii this summer and her daughter was openly very worried about her. Everyone in MOL group now 'calming', cleaning out their closets etc 'in preparation for Phase II of The Mission" to be rolled out on January 17th or so. Is just the opportunity for MOL to clean out their figurative financial closets? They've certainly decreased the content of the web site since online activity on the various MBs.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.101.110.35 Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:46 am:        I also heard from an active MOL member that Kalindi is in seculsion, that a special energy is coming in at this time. That all we have to do is focus on Kalindi and her energy and she will be with you and help you. Something along those lines.   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.255.131 Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 1:05 am:        Tx for the update, but Why on earth would I want her with me? She would help me with what? To drain my bank account?   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.101.110.35 Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 7:41 pm:        I don't know how much of your bank account she would drain, but I do know this she will take all of your time and energy for the growth of the mission. Actually, you will happily give it to her because by giving all your extra time and energy and resources to "God", she will help you to break free from the cycle of birth and death. My question is, how does one know they have broken this cycle? Is it a feeling they have deep inside them? Can you be decieved into believing a lie that you are really free?   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.169.93.120 Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:29 am:        Nobody breaks free of the cycle - until they leave MOL. But MOL keeps the followers busy running around in circles, instead of questioning MOL; that causes inner conflicts. Have to continue looking inward at those inner conflicts, and going deeper by attending meditations and more program$ in the hopes of breaking free of the pain & Illusion. Also the MOL personal coache$ are available for private guidance. Keep doing your work, the mental masturbation to break free : * Find what is 'accurate' for you * "Look at that..." inside yourself * What is it about you that causes (whatever) to happen? It is taught that the pain comes from connection to the Illusion. The Illusion is normal life. Normal life is NOT black-and-white (darn it all!). But in MOL things are pretty clearly black and white, in or out of the group. Same with any cultic group. The programs and self analysis are designed to subtly increase the inner conflict w/o the devotee realizing it. The hypnotic trance state is addicting to those who have addictive tendencies. The outward promise is that continuing to do one's work, as directed by the MOL Mission, will free one from the conflicts. All is convincingy lovingly explained by the higher level true believers. The inner conflicts cease when one has totally surrendered to the Mission's teachings. No more conflict when the devotee completely relinquishes their ego (individual self determination) and just goes along with the flow completely, as dictated by MOL. Great affirmation and support in celebration of such within the group. Even the home decorating/organizing (whoa- took about compulsivity!) guidelines are about relinquishing individual determination. Then the cult persona has taken over. When one has fully surrendered, there is no longer inner conflict. What a great release - to have no inner conflict! Then comes eventually an inner emptiness, if one stops long enough to notice it. But there is so much Mission work to do, that often don't have time to notice it. The personal MOL mentor is available 24/7 for the guidance to move through that emptiness and find what is accurate. Keep going to meditations to feel full of "G" coming in to fill the emptiness, surrender and let go more and more, keep those endogenous opiates flowing. A person does not get deceived into having broken free. Just deceived into the notion that remaining with MOL is the solution to help you eventually break free of the inner pain/conflict/emptiness. And with the support of others who lovingly help to organize one's life accurately, and much love bombing, dancing to great music mixes, supporting each other in crying about one's pain. The loving groupthink validates the insanity.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.101.110.35 Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 2:34 pm:        In response to Felicita: What was "accurate" for me was to question MOL. I "needed to look at that" Thank God I did. It has saved me from cultic thinking. What is about "me" that causes "this" to happen. Hopefully a strong sense of myself and my own convictions   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.169.93.120 Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 8:58 pm:        There was a recent murder suicide by the son of a leader of the "Children of God". The young man claimed the murder was in retribution for the extensive abuse experienced by him and the other children raised within that group. Someone above referred to the Miracle of Love as a 'wacky organization', but the person received benefit from the intro Intensive. I suspect that many devout members, low level, of The Children of God feel the same way. When a person, usually in crises, spends increasing time with such an organization, the group slowly influences the behavior of the more devout followers. Spiritual peer pressure. From published accounts of Children of God, how would the inner circle of the Miracle of Love differ? From what is reportd about the youth raised inside of MOL, it's pretty similar. All in the name of expressing the Divine Being! (Message edited by felicita on January 17, 2005)   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.169.93.7 Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 8:00 pm:        MOL's "investment opportunity" for their devout followers is Broad Street Capital, Inc No one seems to know what REALLY happens to funds once 'invested'. The money never returns to the investor. Some MOL members have been fleeced by this group. The following attorney is investigating this, and is also in touch with authorities on this issue. If you have any experience or information on Broad Street, please pass it to : Roy Chernus Executive Director Legal Aid of Marin 30 North San Pedro Road, Suite 220 San Rafael, CA 94903 Telephone: (415)492-0230 Fax: (415)492-0947 Reply to: rchernus@LegalAidMarin.org   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.158.20.162 Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:20 pm:        The Miracle of LOVE : Dear old friends hiring a kidnapper and professional mercinaries for torture. It's all about the LOVE of money... http://www.rickross.com/groups/miracle.html   heyjack (heyjack) New member Username: heyjack Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 24.148.66.163 Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:58 pm:        I recently worked at a company called RPh on the Go. They are a pharmacist staffing company in Skokie, Illinois (847-588-7170). Some people at the company are very much entrenched in The Miracle of Love, Landmark, The Mankind Projet and other cults and pseudo cults. Their recruiting practices are very intense and they make it very clear that if you want to work and suceed at the company you must participate in these mind controlling groups. I personally witnessed young professionals being intimidated, and indirectly threatened with termination so they would join these groups. I admit that as a young, and somewhat naive man I joined The Mankind Project. Let me tell you, The Mankind Project is not like other groups. They are a cult by definition. I was not inclined to later join The Miracle of Love as I had briefly experienced the cult life of The Mankind project. I warn anyone who is approached by these recruiters to avoid them at all costs. If anyone knows of any employment laws that might have been broken, please post information. (Message edited by heyjack on June 21, 2005)   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.160.164.216 Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 1:15 am:        Cults place a lot of pressure for recruitment. It is morally wrong and illegal to recruit that way in places of employment. In your state you could file formal complaints with the State Attorney General, the State Assemblymen or Senator, the Employment Development Department, or the Better Business Bureau. Better yet - all of them! The office of Attorney General and the legislators' offices are the most effective for following through on complaints (they want to be re-elected). (Message edited by jorgem on June 21, 2005) (Message edited by jorgem on June 21, 2005)   rhea (rhea) New member Username: rhea Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.8.230.148 Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 3:40 pm:        To anyone who has had any dealings with this "group" (by definition, a cult), I am sorry. My mom has been involved with the Miracle of Love for nearly 10 years (maybe more-- i don't remember). My parents divorced when i was 2 (long before she joined), and through her long term boyfriend she was introduced to the Miracle of Love. My step-dad (the long term boyfriend who was responsible for introducing her) did one or two intensives, and never really participated again. He had experimented with several cults, Scientology being one of them, and I'm sure many others... but ultimately, he is a Buddhist, and has seen through everything else. I lived in one of the group houses around when I was 11 years old, I did the teen intensive when i was 13. It was certainly an interesting experience-- they break you down to a crying, quivering mess, then try to build you up by making you feel as though they want you, God wants you, etc... it's ridiculous. They use obvious brainwashing methods, and people (like my mom) just don't see it. And yes, for some people it IS a positive experience and don't feel the pressure to ever have contact with them again. I was lucky enough to be one of them. There's a lot that outsiders just don't see, they can't see it. I am deeply concerned, and I only wish that I knew more. I apologize for this mess of a post... I know it isn't very well articulated, but I had to get it out there while it's still on my mind. If anyone has any questions or information for me, feel free to email me at martiangirl2000@Yahoo.com. I will be thankful for any information given to me pertaining to the Miracle of Love or its members. Oh, I would also like to mention that I never experienced any sort of sexual abuse. During the teen intensive they made it very clear that any sort of sexual activity was prohibited (probably in part for their proctection). Also, while they do like rich people... they need ones that aren't so well off. My mom has never had a lot of money, but she always gives some amount, not to mention the countless hours of volunteer work. They need everyone they can get just to populate, but I don't dispute that they target people with money. I can say one thing though... if I was God, I'd be ashamed of the way these people were using me (along with so many others...) (Message edited by rhea on July 20, 2005) (Message edited by rhea on July 20, 2005)   srijana (srijana) New member Username: srijana Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 80.218.65.217 Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 4:16 pm:        I am so gald I found this page today, when I was researching about the Miracle of Love, the Intensive and what is really going on there. I was invited by a friend, who recently organised an info meeting at her house, to go with her to Munich for a sitting with Matha/Maha? and a party organised by the second generation. And maybe participate in the Intensive later...?! The reson why I got interested in the Intensive was because even though there were 5 people at the info meeting, who had already participated in an Intensive, none of them could tell what happens during the course. After about 5 hours of continuous intensive reading (mainly on this site) today, I am relieved to hear that I don't need to participate in order to find out what happens in a sitting or the Intensive. I just wish for all the people I met at the meeting (and I admit that I find them all very nice) to not continue what they started, or to realise that it is better for them not to join the Miracle of Love.   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.248.123 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 10:04 pm:        Hello I was posting at RickRoss as the Name JM after a friends name, but I want to be clear I am not Sandlow. Also I seem to have been silenced over there as my last response has not appeared in the past couple days since I sent it. Then again Rick makes some money as a cult opponent so maybe it didn't fit into his business plan.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.111.85.172 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 10:52 am:        Dear notthe JM, I do not believe you were silenced at Rick Ross. I believe your were given you some things to think about on your own. Just as you have given us some things to think about. Sometimes absorbing takes time. Isn't it good to look at all sides? We are here for the truth and clarity. It is in seeking the truth about MOL that stopped me from doing the work MOL proposes in the MOL way. I wouldn't want to use the word "join" with you. I understand that it is not a group that you join as you have said. It is my opinion that it is a mindset that you adopt. MOL through redefining the meaning of words and concepts they have created a belief system that keeps people suspended in a certain place in their minds. Producing the feeling of a connection with G or moving closer to G etc. I am not an academic here, however I have been involved in another group that produced a similar thinking, feeling and being. They just used different terminology. NO matter how good something may feel, and although MOL is confrontational and most MOLers claim it is not about feeling good. Don't you feel the love during meditation and the intensives, etc? Is that love that you are feeling really your connection with GOD? Is it God? Ask yourself what is it really. Can you trust your senses that much? I have experienced in many group meetings that "love that is beyond the mind". I just don't limit God. God is beyond the mind and to limit Him to the Path of MOL is just too limiting for me. NO matter what you believe when you begin your journey with MOL, in the end you will have to believe Kalindi and her guidance or you will NOT break free. So do all roads (paths) actually lead to God and break you free? Your postings are good and thought provoking. I hope you will think the same of ours. It helps us understand MOL more. (Message edited by solway on July 29, 2005)   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.111.85.172 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:01 am:        Sarijana, It was the secrecy of MOL that kept me from doing the Intensive. When I questioned some MOLers it was so obivious that their answers were scripted. When I would ask a non confrontation question as to why they did something the way that they do they did not know because they no longer question anything. The answer was a simple "I don't know", or "god is beyond the mind". My question back to them was "how can you not know. How can you not question". It was my questioning that stopped me from doing the Intensive. Good thing I didn't let go, give up and surrender. Good for you as well.   felicita (felicita) New member Username: felicita Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.201.69.218 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 12:04 pm:        Hello all, Yes, the secrecy about the Intensive that was my biggest red flag. "You have to experience it. It cannot be described" I also watched, at very close hand, how their teachings and methods altered a devoted member, who happens to be a wealthy and valued part of MOL's Mission. Rhea, sorry to hear about your experience in the Intensive. Those are classic methods of thought reform. You can search on google (also on factnet) for "Lifton's 8 Criteria of Thought Reform". MOL meets all the criteria. As for the goal of "Breaking the Cycle of Birth and Death" I just hope to "Break the Cycle of Nine to Five"!!   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.248.149 Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 3:42 am:        Well I typed and sent a seven paragraph response that has not been posted. That was a week ago. SO they apparently didn't want to post it. Also if you reseach Ross you might be suprised. As for Kalindi doodles she is quite goofy and I don't pay her any mind. I was just astonished by the one sidedness of the conversation so I decided to add another side. Also all the sexual ideas you all have about their parents and kids seems rather perverse to me, how can you invent such fantasy?   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.255.122 Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 11:33 am:        Sometimes there are delays in posting messages to the RR message board. This board is instantaneous - and not actively moderated. Interesting, that you don't pay Kalindi any mind. Have you researched her background? Or Jim St. J's, or the Lady? Yet, accepting her Path of God and knowing one's True Self, without understanding the source of these teachings? To my knowledge, no one accepts the path to God, according to Rick, as a valid path to self knowledge. Just another message board to have such discussions - at no charge for participation. Just like MOL dances are for free. Does Kalindi reveal anything about her background? Maha's attempt at leaving the Mission and MOL intervention to keep Maha involved? The anti-Rick Ross websites are funded by The Church of Scientology. On RR's website, if you click around, he has publicly posted all the details of his personal history - including the controversial aspects. All available for public scrutiny. Ideas about the children in MOL? How closely involved have you been with the day-to-day raising of children in MOL? Children of MOL devotees are exposed to a lot.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.109.69.49 Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:09 pm:        Dear Not the JM, I believe you when you say that you are NOT that into Kalindi doodles and find her kind of goofy. It took my MOLer several years of involvement with MOL before he truly accepted Kalindi as his master and the voice of god. He kept doing the work because he wanted to become a better person. So he said. He had a desire for god and I believed him. However, who is god? MOL defines that for you. MOL defines the path to god as well. IMO, actually MOL defines your whole life and calls it the path to breaking free. After a intensive, my MOLer came to me and said. "I now believe Kalindi is who she says she is. I would do anything for her without question. Anything. I would even cut my balls off for her". That was a little alarming to say the least. Then I thought, he has been here for several years and he didn't believe Kalindi was who she claims to be? How strange he would be doing this work and not believe her. So, JM although you are doing a wonderful work at stripping yourself from yourself to become your trueself. Ask yourself, IF you can ask yourself because according to my knowledge you are just a "being of illusion" so how can you really ask yourself anything? Actually, you need the guidance to even to ask yourself anything..... if you think deeply enough about it because MOL tells you are just a being of illusion. YOU learn to not really trust yourself. So they start to ask the questions for you, pointing out your illusions and redefining YOU, slowly and seductively drawing you in. In the beginning it looks really good, after all I desire to be a better person too. My desire is for more of God in my life as well. Anyway, I am sure there is part of yourself there or else would have "broken free". Ask yourself where you are really going on this path? In the end, and it is a slow process, you will give up let go and surrender to the guidance because if you want to break free you will have to. Or even if you just want more of god you will have to surrender to the guidance. Just some thoughts. I enjoy our conversations. It helps me to understand MOL. I am here for clarity and truth. (Message edited by solway on July 31, 2005)   ultraman (ultraman) New member Username: ultraman Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.52.137.162 Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:07 am:        What are some of the names of the leaders of this cult in the San Diego area. It looks as if I have a MOL member that has purchased a house on my cul-de-sac. When are theese intensives held? On the weekends? The house is in the Scripps Ranch area of San Diego...Very expensive, middle-class homes. Homes begin at the $1,000,000 price level.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.109.69.49 Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 7:51 am:        In response to Ultraman: The leaders of Miracle of Love are Kalindi, Lord Gourasana (now deceased) The Lady. Yes, active devoted members do purchase homes in the San Diego area where they live as a group. There are about 300 members worldwide. San Diego is their hub so to speak. They usually move around a couple of times a year. You will notice some moving in and out. They are very neat and organized with respectable jobs. There is a lot of good information about this group on Rickross.com and there is also a support group for family members and concerned "neighbors" or loved ones who have been exposed to Miracle of Love. The intensives are held in the San Diego area, San Francisco area and in Munich and Ashville, NC. They are NOT held in the group homes. The Miracle of Love Center is located in the Casa De Oro area of San Diego off Campo Rd. Hope this helps.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.109.69.49 Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 8:08 am:        Dear not the JM, In regards to your post that was lost at Rick ross. I have had many post lost there as well. FRUSTRATING....Sometimes it has to do with taking a long time to write out your post and then pressing the submit button and it doesn't appear. The system is not perfect. Rick Ross does have some good information that is thought provoking. You have added some insight that is helpful. Thank you.   jorgem (jorgem) New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.124.255.122 Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 10:27 am:        MOL membership: There are maybe 300-400 so-called Active Members globally in MOL. There are many more who participate and just don't pay the monthly $50 dues nor provide the regular free labor to be on the Active list. Much like any church congregation. There are those who keep the church running (Active Members). Then there are the majority of congregants who come for Sunday service and maybe a few holidays. The congregants still absorb the Sunday sermon, and try to live the Church's values in their daily lives. There are many valuable teachings in MOL, (that could also be obtained through other sources). However, the further one goes into the organization, that which is useful becomes increasingly mixed with destructive teachings. The larger number of MOL folks are those who are not on the Active list. I have no idea how many that would be. Again, just like any other church group. However, to live in an MOL house, one must be an Active Member. Yes, the Intensives and Meditation workshops are held elsewhere. The homes are generally quiet and controlled environments, sparsely decorated, pristinely maintained environments. They make good neighbors. The members are generally polite, calm and subdued. They probably won't create problems in the neighborhood. There is great concern of appearing acceptable and attractive to outsiders (to better recruit others). Many are high level intelligent professionals. They will make an interesting conversations piece for your cul-de-sac's annual BBQ. If they borrow a lawn mower, it will be returned in good condition.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.109.69.49 Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 10:58 am:        Dear Jorgem and Ultraman Yes, MOL has the active members (those that live in the group homes have very specific spiritual goals and are deeply involved) Those spiritual goals can only be obtained by living together and working through ones illusions. Then there are members that dabble and never really move forward but just attend meditations on occasion (those members are VERY rare) In MOL you are either in or out. NO fence walkers really. For one to attend the meditations one must do a 6 day intensive. They have the center open to the public for Friday night dances. Those dances are to entice people into doing a meditation workshop and to position MOL as more mainstream. The goal is to get you to the intensive.   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.67 Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 11:55 pm:        hum where is my last posting?   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.109.69.49 Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 1:44 pm:        Dear not the JM, Are you speaking of your last posting you tried to get through here at factnet or at rick ross? I have lost great postings at both sites. Here at factnet they are not monitored or at least I don't think they are because they are immediately posted. At Rick ross they are monitored. All I can say is that you are not alone in wondering where things go or if they are deleted. when I get discouraged in my search for truth, my job is to never give up! So I just gather my thoughts and post again. Don't be discouraged. (Message edited by solway on August 05, 2005)   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.193 Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 5:31 pm:        not sure it is worth the effort. this is way one sided.   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.248.240 Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 11:00 pm:        Well as one of the fence sitters I have to say that it is ones own obsessions that one follows. The goal is to let go of those. What part of the world you live in solway?   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.5.235.19 Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:53 am:        Dear not the JM I rarely check this message board, and just check it this morning. I am in San Diego County. I believe you must be as well.   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.152 Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 10:43 pm:        Yes San Diego County. Just wondering if I know you, but there are a lot of ex Mol people in the county.   solway (solway) New member Username: solway Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.5.235.19 Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 9:15 am:        JM...It may be possible that I do know you. If you want feel free to email at csolway@yahoo.com.   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.239 Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 9:04 pm:        Sent you an email hope to hear back   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.155 Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 2:05 am:        So this is closed?   notthe_jm (notthe_jm) New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.155 Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 2:08 am:        o guess not   heyjack (heyjack) New member Username: heyjack Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.165.201.26 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 4:35 pm:        You are all not paying attention!! This is mind control at its worse. There are way over 400 members, as I worked at a company (www.rphonthego.com) where practically the entire upper management were long-term members. I saw them get at least 3-4 people to seriously join! Some of my co-workers went on the intensive. I got out of there as fast a possible. People were afraid to talk about it even outside of work!!!! NUTS!   notthe_jm New member Username: notthe_jm Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 69.19.184.46 Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:00 am:        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA that was pretty funny.   jorgem New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.141.136.125 Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:22 pm:        This week, Miracle of Love is the front page headline of this Marin County paper. http://www.pacificsun.com/ After this week, the article will be available online in the paper's archives.   jorgem New member Username: jorgem Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.135.115.254 Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 7:39 pm:        The updated link: http://www.pacificsun.com/love_cult.html   eastcoast New member Username: eastcoast Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 66.169.85.4 Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 7:52 pm:        My husband, soon to be ex, is moving into a MOL house. He plans to have partial custody of our two young sons so they can stay with him there. This is totally scary to me. Is there any legal advice or direction out there for stopping custody in a case like this? By the way, this is in the Asheville NC MOL community. Maybe most people don't know about it but MOLers are arriving en masse.

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