| Author | Message | ||
     missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1766 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.72.146 |
Phoenix fire Captain Autry Cheatham and his crew had just picked up their lunch when dispatch alerted them to a nearby shed fire. The four hoped the call would be brief as they arrived at 1222 East Clarendon, just 79 seconds later. ****It was 11:32 a.m., March 20, 1998.*** But what they observed as they pulled up to the home stunned them. Firefighter Gayland Bass recalls: "As I was going up to the fire, I was met by a little young guy who told me that his mother was trying to kill them, and she had set them on fire with gas. As I got him out of the way, I took a couple more steps. His brother was there, another little guy was there on fire. Pulled him out of the fire into the yard. "... I see the mother on the back porch with a can of gasoline, dousing herself with gas ... walking back and forth. I hit her with the hose line to put her out, and I knocked her down to the ground.... [Then] we found another little girl in the shed ... I just saw her hands, and I just blanked out." Firefighter Geronimo Ramirez Jr. picks up the narrative: "I thought I saw something moving in the backyard, and it just kind of looked like a mass there, a dark mass. And I looked at it again closer, and I could see it had feet." The mass was Kelly Louise Blake, a 34-year-old mother of three. "There was still some steam coming off her and stuff, so I went ahead and wet her with the hose." Cheatham burst into the scorching shed to try to rescue Blake's daughter, 9-year-old Venessa Fausto. His gear caught fire, but he didn't stop. "I was digging through the debris trying to get to the arm, because that's all you saw was her arm," he told police that day. "Once I got enough stuff off of her, I reached down and grabbed her arm and pulled her out. It was kind of obvious that she was dead at that point. We took her around the back and put her on the slab, and covered her up." The girl's grotesquely disfigured body lay under a bright blue blanket, next to a handpainted sign that read, "J R Snow Cones." It stood for the first names of Johnny Fausto Jr. and his younger brother, Ray; the boys used the sign when they hawked the treats in the neighborhood. Paramedic Suzie Gaw soon arrived with Engine 9. She saw 14-year-old Johnny cradling his horribly burned 12-year-old brother in the carport outside the shed door. | ||
| not_scared New member Username: not_scared Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 166.165.176.85 |
what do you wish to know. i will not talk of the children. i will not read that post also. why don't you ask realavent questions rather than posting this. this is sensationalism to me. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1770 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.72.146 |
it was sent to me so just thought someone could tell us about this...sorry if i offended you. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1772 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.72.146 |
What do I wish to know? I wish to know if this is true? What happened? Is it true that HH drove her to do this? Is it true that she was a part of HH and they told the folks to say she was not? I too hurt to think about something like this happening if it really did. It is nothing about sensationalism it is about IF a MINISTRY drove someone to do something like this? I cannot not even imagine what a person's children could think if their mother was driven to do this. I have heard all kinds of stories by peoples reactions it must be true. I am not trying to hurt anyone it looks like a newspaper article...I will try to contact the ones that wrote this artice not hh and not who sent it to me but the fire fighters. I think this is awful and shocking and the mother must have been at the end of her rope about something. I pray in Jesus Name for those that are left and someway if they have not found peace they will find it in the arms of our Lord. | ||
| not_scared Junior Member Username: not_scared Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 166.165.176.85 |
don't know if i would say offends me, but this incident is horrible. just horrible. to true it is. two beautiful children with one brave older brother affected horribly forever. i don't know why she did it. i don't know if it was the leadership of hh's fault or not. she obviously had problems to do this. i don't think this story is realavent to this hh board except for the stories of hh telling their az group to tell ?authorities/news? that they were not associated together. because oh they were associated! (Message edited by not scared on January 18, 2007) | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1775 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.222 |
yes, it is...I have recieved several calls about this and I hardly know what to say...I only know what people that have left have told me and in no way do I doubt their word because I can see how things like this would and could happen. Many people cannot take pressure...being talked down to and etc...It is a very sad happening but if HH did wrong then they at least should tell people they made a mistake and not try to cover up wrong. I personally got down on my knees in tears before their elders BUT my conscience told me NOT to turn our works over to them. I can see how a person can be pressured until they loose the way... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1776 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.222 |
I will not post about this again until I find out from legal sources the truth of this story and if or if not she was a member at the time this happened. If she was a member or even a person attending then HH was wrong to say she was not associated with their church. I would not want an overseer that would dump me even if I did something wrong...it is in our lowest vallys that we really need help from a pastor... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1777 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.222 |
Sorry that I caused you grief that was not intended. | ||
| seekingglory Intermediate Member Username: seekingglory Post Number: 120 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.162.130.158 |
Not scared wrote......................don't know if i would say offends me, but this incident is horrible. just horrible. to true it is. two beautiful children with one brave older brother affected horribly forever. i don't know why she did it. i don't know if it was the leadership of hh's fault or not. she obviously had problems to do this. i don't think this story is realavent to this hh board except for the stories of hh telling their az group to tell ?authorities/news? that they were not associated together. because oh they were associated! SG says...............This story is very relevant to this board. It exemplifies what we are saying about the leaders of Homestead and how they treat people. They were more interested in their image than this lady and her children. We need more posts to prove our points. Prax cannot touch this. The truth prevails. | ||
| not_scared Junior Member Username: not_scared Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 166.165.191.42 |
pretty sure she was still being ministered to around the time this happened, one way or another. i don't know what to say again, she had problems to be able to do this. i just think of the kids and what a great loss. those kids deserved better. doesn't offend me it just pi$$es me off to no end that this happened period. and the resulting statements from hh. well that was a big shocker there to. you need to find past leaders from the church and ask them. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 480 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.124 |
I can't say whether or not for sure HH is at fault. But I know how they berate people... I know how they made me feel. I know that there was a couple times while I was in HH that I felt very evil because of their ministry to me and I didn't even know what I needed to change. I was confused and didn't see a way out. HH represented God to me, and that God they were representing was supposedly displeased with me for years, and wasn't letting me know why. I started to doubt everything about myself including my ability to raise my children. If I was so ungodly that I had to be kept on Friday Night Status for three whole years... not even knowing why... except that they said the "brothers" "felt" I need to be on Friday Status; then how evil I must "be." A loving God wouldn't hold me at arms length us less I was evil. Our being on Friday status was hurting my children. They were teased because of it. They couldn't participate in the fair choir or other events. My daughter cried herself to sleep many nights. I couldn’t console her. If I knew what to change I would of changed it. It felt hopeless after trying to walk the best I could for three years... with no correction... only this discipline for doing what I didn't know I was doing. I cried for YEARS. I cried out to God just like Kelly, "God change me," "show me what to do to be acceptable to you!" I fought the thought, "Maybe my children would be better off without me." “What if they kick me out, there was no hope in the cruel wicked world outside of HH.” HH made that plain to me. If I wasn't "making it" in HH, then I certainly couldn't do it out there. I couldn't let my children "live out there." I then knew, if they kicked me out... if God, (who HH represented,) disposed of me... then living was not an option. Then God in His mercy brought the gospel to me, the one I had believed before HH, through a visitor named Lauradawn. Lauradawn, God used you to save my life!!!! The moment I again believed, I felt God surround me with His love. I knew that HH’s rejection of me, was not God’s rejection. I knew Jesus again. Over the next year, I had a hunger for His unadulterated Word. At this time God had brought another thing that caused me to open my eyes and my heart even further. He pulled back that rug in my glass HH house and began to show me what I had swept under there. It was things about HH that I did not want to see. Among them were warnings God had tried to send my way. (See the glass house thread.) This is why the plight of these HH mothers is a part of me. This is why I have cried often and pray for the mothers still in HH. A few inside HH had cried on my shoulders; I know I am not the only one who felt so hopeless. I know there are other sisters in HH, who like me understand the UN-understandable. I pray for them. I pray for your moms, sisters, and daughters in HH, who someday might get the same "ministry" and think it is God rejecting them after they have done their best, leaving them with no hope. As shocked as I was when I first learned of it, I was even more shocked to find out that she was not the first mother in HH to kill her children. Then I thought about what I went through... and the shock was gone. TWO mom's... that should say a LOT. (Message edited by foreverhis on January 20, 2007) | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 481 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.68 |
"I think what my problem is that I went through another nervous breakdown. Too much weighing on me -- responsibility, disappointment ... I wrestle with my thoughts all day long trying to find a way out of this crazyness. Looking for answers, not trusting myself. Afraid of myself." ..."I didn't see any light, nothing. I was very, very confused. I wanted a lot for my kids, you know. I was saying ... 'I just can't do it no more.'" -- Kelly Blake, in an August 1998 interview with police ...In the late 1980s, Blake embraced the teachings of a small Christian congregation based in west Phoenix. The church's leaders urge parents to curb their children's contact with "evil" influences -- television, popular music, even other children. Blake dropped off the welfare rosters, and eschewed government health insurance for her children. (Attorneys for ComCare and Dr. Sbilris suggested in recent court pleadings that "the Ambassador Church may have caused and/or contributed to Kelly Blake's attempt to take her own life and/or the lives of her children.") FH says: I had never heard the AZ fellowship be called the Ambassador Church. Was this the name of the home church before they joined with HH? Maybe it was a name she gave her doctor in order to protect Homestead Heritage? Does anyone know? I wonder what she told her doctor to make him think "the Ambassador Church may have caused and/or contributed to Kelly Blake's attempt to take her own life and/or the lives of her children." "I'm not going to make it through." -- Kelly Blake, at the Southwest Behavioral Health Services Urgent Care Center, February 23, 1998 "make it through" FH: An HH phrase. She felt condemned. Blake did odd jobs at a mobile-home park for a time, then in August 1996 was hired part-time as a maintenance worker at a condo complex on Palm Lane. But her mind continued to betray her. Blake wasn't getting counseling, and wasn't taking any medicine to help control her chronic mental illness. She'd also had a falling-out with her church. ****"They kicked her out because she said she wasn't in the Spirit, or something," Blake's son Johnny later told police. Her explanation: "I've always had a rebel streak in me, and I got crossways with some of the people there, that's it." FH: Rebellion... you don't agree or jump high enough... "rebellion" ... everything is reduced to "rebellion" against God. Blake's relationship with Josephine Fausto was fragile. The older woman didn't charge her rent, which was a godsend. But the strain in the small home on Clarendon sometimes was palpable. ****In January 1998, Blake made amends with her old church. But it couldn't provide a haven from the demons of her encroaching mental illness.} Anyone who has read Blair Adams' opinion on mental illness, knows he claims it to be a spiritual problem. He calls it "victim status" and an escape from personal responsibility. Is it no wonder that she "wasn't getting counseling, and wasn't taking any medicine"? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 482 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.68 |
"I think what my problem is that I went through another nervous breakdown. Too much weighing on me -- responsibility, disappointment ... I wrestle with my thoughts all day long trying to find a way out of this crazyness. Looking for answers, not trusting myself. Afraid of myself." ..."I didn't see any light, nothing. I was very, very confused. I wanted a lot for my kids, you know. I was saying ... 'I just can't do it no more.'" -- Kelly Blake, in an August 1998 interview with police ...In the late 1980s, Blake embraced the teachings of a small Christian congregation based in west Phoenix. The church's leaders urge parents to curb their children's contact with "evil" influences -- television, popular music, even other children. Blake dropped off the welfare rosters, and eschewed government health insurance for her children. (Attorneys for ComCare and Dr. Sbilris suggested in recent court pleadings that "the Ambassador Church may have caused and/or contributed to Kelly Blake's attempt to take her own life and/or the lives of her children.") FH says: I had never heard the AZ fellowship be called the Ambassador Church. Was this the name of the home church before they joined with HH? Maybe it was a name she gave her doctor in order to protect Homestead Heritage? Does anyone know? I wonder what she told her doctor to make him think "the Ambassador Church may have caused and/or contributed to Kelly Blake's attempt to take her own life and/or the lives of her children." "I'm not going to make it through." -- Kelly Blake, at the Southwest Behavioral Health Services Urgent Care Center, February 23, 1998 "make it through" FH: An HH phrase. She felt condemned. Blake did odd jobs at a mobile-home park for a time, then in August 1996 was hired part-time as a maintenance worker at a condo complex on Palm Lane. But her mind continued to betray her. Blake wasn't getting counseling, and wasn't taking any medicine to help control her chronic mental illness. She'd also had a falling-out with her church. ****"They kicked her out because she said she wasn't in the Spirit, or something," Blake's son Johnny later told police. Her explanation: "I've always had a rebel streak in me, and I got crossways with some of the people there, that's it." FH: Rebellion... you don't agree or jump high enough... "rebellion" ... everything is reduced to "rebellion" against God. Blake's relationship with Josephine Fausto was fragile. The older woman didn't charge her rent, which was a godsend. But the strain in the small home on Clarendon sometimes was palpable. ****In January 1998, Blake made amends with her old church. But it couldn't provide a haven from the demons of her encroaching mental illness. Anyone who has read Blair Adams' opinion on mental illness, knows he claims it to be a spiritual problem. He calls it "victim status" and an escape from personal responsibility. Is it no wonder that she "wasn't getting counseling, and wasn't taking any medicine"? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 483 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.68 |
The day before Kelly Blake killed two of her children was unremarkable. Her son Johnny recalls no fights or bickering, nor ominous comments from his mother. It was a school day for most Valley youngsters, but not for the home-schooled Faustos. Johnny would tell police that the family rode their bicycles on North Mountain before going to work at the condo complex where Blake and the kids worked part-time. They went home after work, ate dinner, and went to bed without incident. Johnny awakened around 9 a.m. on Friday, March 20, 1998. It was a chilly Phoenix morning. Less than two hours had passed since the fire started. Phoenix police detective Dave Swine sat with Johnny Fausto at Maricopa Medical Center, and began an extraordinary interview. The boy seemed eerily focused, first describing his home life. "She wanted to be a Christian, but we didn't want to," Johnny said. "'Cause they make you dress a certain way that they want you to dress, and talk a certain way they want you to talk." | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 484 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.68 |
Johnny then recalled more about Kelly Blake's last words to him before leading him and his siblings into the shed: "'I've just been trying to do things for you guys, the ones I love the most, and all I wanted was for you guys to grow up and love God.... But it seems like everything I do, it's wrong, it always turns out wrong.' It seemed weird, and then she said, 'Okay, let's play a game now.'" Excerpts from a story for the Phoenix Times by Paul Rubin I want you to know I have had this info for years and never felt to post it here until today. I tried to get people to understand what happens in HH without exposing their victims. The victims have suffered enough. I think it is time that people know what we have been warning about. I think it is time the the members of Homestead Heritage knew what the leaders are keeping from them. I think it is time that they know they are not the only ones in HH who feel condemned. I think it is time that somebody in HH is held responsible for their ministry to these TWO mothers who killed their children in their own suicide attempts. Someone needs to see that it doesn't happen again. They are so good at keeping secrets, what else do you not know? The no speak rule... How many questions have you dared not ask? Do you not care what happened to those people who just "left" ? Are you going to keep believing the lies they tell you about those people in the trail of broken lives they have left behind. You fathers in HH. Stand tall. Be heads of your own household. Don't let them berate your family or yourself in front of them. Keep yourself respect and theirs. Stand up for the members you see publicly berated in meetings. Better yet, just get out of there. Don't walk. Run! May God open your eyes to what is going on around you. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 485 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
Less than two hours had passed since the fire started. Phoenix police detective Dave Swine sat with Johnny Fausto at Maricopa Medical Center, and began an extraordinary interview. The boy seemed eerily focused, first describing his home life. "She wanted to be a Christian, but we didn't want to," Johnny said. "'Cause they make you dress a certain way that they want you to dress, and talk a certain way they want you to talk." Johnny then recalled more about Kelly Blake's last words to him before leading him and his siblings into the shed: "'I've just been trying to do things for you guys, the ones I love the most, and all I wanted was for you guys to grow up and love God.... But it seems like everything I do, it's wrong, it always turns out wrong.' It seemed weird, and then she said, 'Okay, let's play a game now.'" Notice what was on Jonny's mind when it all happened. What does he talk about... the fellowship. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 487 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
"Change Kelly Change Kelly Change Kelly Change Kelly. Jesus, change my heart, please change my heart and mind, Jesus. I don't know how to change." -- from Kelly Blake's diary, February 1998 | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 924 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Folks, "I can't say whether or not for sure HH is at fault. ... it is time that somebody in HH is held responsible" Yet once again .. you are 100% a hypocrite, F_H. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 492 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
If anyone should have been there for Kelly it was her church. As her church, they had a responsibility; no doubt about that. How much? 100%? That is the only thing I can not be sure of because I wasn't there. Did they try to get her professional help? They don't even believe in it. She said there was no one to take care of her children? Why not? I thought HH helps their single mothers? She was having a hard time meeting their needs... According to her diary and what she told her doctors, she felt condemned and without hope. She didn't feel she could "make it." What did she need Prax? She needed the real Jesus. She needed to know true grace and true forgiveness. She needed to know our hope we have in Him. She needed to know that grace was more than just another chance to get it right. She needed to know her "making it" was already bought and paid for at Calvary. That doesn't line up with HH doctrine, they teach another gospel. She didn't need more condemnation. Two loving and devoted mothers under the same ministry and doctrine lost all hope and murdered their children while also trying to kill themselves... That still says a lot!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 493 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
They need at least be held responsible to answer some tough questions. But they lied their way out of that. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 494 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
Two years after the fire, it's easier to speculate on what Blake's motivations for murder were not. Though she is widely reviled, Blake isn't a Debbie Milke -- now on Arizona's death row for having orchestrated the murder of her young son -- or a Susan Smith, who strapped her sons into car seats and drowned them. Both of those women were torn between their children and suitors who didn't fancy being stepfathers. Though she was attractive, Blake hadn't even dated in years. And she certainly hadn't done it out of fury at her kids. After all, Blake intended to die with her children. Finally, Kelly Blake wasn't a modern-day Medea, hell-bent on avenging her man's unfaithfulness by murdering her children. Reports surfaced of Blake's bouts with depression (true), of recently having become unemployed (untrue), of her intense religious faith (true), and that she was a poor single mother who shunned welfare (true). Blake attempted a more specific explanation during a brief August 1998 interview with Phoenix police: "I remember thinking that there's just no way out, and I was wondering what was going to happen to my kids.... There's nobody to watch them or take care of them right. I, I, I remember, oh, God! It wasn't something I thought about. It was just something that came to my mind." ...It shouldn't have surprised anyone who knew Kelly Blake that she would have taken her children with her when she'd had enough of this life. Her kids were her life. Blake was fixated on her kids, something that became more curse than blessing as her sanity eroded. Unlike most parents, she grew more possessive of her children as they got older, monitoring their every move. Though she was a high school dropout herself, Blake insisted on home-schooling her brood. During the two years or so before the fire, Blake would regularly take them with her to her part-time job as a maintenance worker at a condominium complex. Johanna Phalen, who lives at the complex, says she knew Blake was troubled. But she adds that the mother and her children endeared themselves to the residents. "The feeling I was getting was of a person who was in pain, and had no one to help her," Phalen says. "She was pleasant and hardworking, and it was obvious something was wrong, and I knew I couldn't help. Her kids were always with her, and they were the nicest, most well-mannered kids. "She was a lovely looking woman, with beautiful long hair. I always thought it was too bad that she had to work so hard, and didn't have a little better life." The adjectives friends, family and others use to describe Kelly Blake are telling: desperate, lonely, troubled, confused, obsessed, overwhelmed. They also use the words devoted, determined, stubborn, independent, sweet. Until the moment she burned her children, no one would have described her as violent or evil. "To this day, I would hire her, house her, and help her in any way she would let me," says Reyna Mitchell, who was Blake's landlord for several months in the mid-1990s. "She was dedicated to protecting and providing for her children, and ensuring that they had a roof over their heads and a decent home life." Kelly Blake WAS a good mother. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 495 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
Why didn't SHE think she was a good mother? Johnny then recalled more about Kelly Blake's last words to him before leading him and his siblings into the shed: "'I've just been trying to do things for you guys, the ones I love the most, and all I wanted was for you guys to grow up and love God.... But it seems like everything I do, it's wrong, it always turns out wrong.' They kicked her out because she said she wasn't in the Spirit, or something," Blake's son Johnny later told police. Anyone who has seen HH "ministry" in action knows how condemning it can get. You know how "right" you have to get things before you are accepted by their Jesus in the flesh... If it isn't good enough for Jesus in the flesh, then it isn't good enough for God. If you are disposed of and rejected by Jesus in the flesh, then why wouldn't you think you have been disposed of and rejected by God? If you have tried to do all you know, and it still isn't good enough...Jesus in the flesh still rejects you... then IS there any hope? If you can't make it with Jesus in the flesh ministering to you, do you think you can make it outside? Everything they teach you says you can't. Why do YOU, the reader, think she lost all hope? | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1782 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.58.190 |
The reason she lost hope was that a false jesus was presented to her...a jesus that stands with a hammer to beat you over the head...a jesus that is hard and cold...a jesus that demands and demands and is never sure if he has all them demands right. A jesus that condemns and stones a jesus that makes fun of other people, a jesus that stands up in funerals and describes peoples sex life, a jesus that frightens people with ever coming and pending judgment... HH is confused... | ||
| wacoan New member Username: wacoan Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.155.13.62 |
HH does NOT reflect the true heart of God. So sad that people are missing out on what God has for them because of it. And the children...God Bless their hearts.... | ||
| missionary_lady New member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.13.187.64 |
So sad... | ||
| foreverhis New member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Forever His wants the readers to know: Previously, I had mentioned that two mothers who were ministered to by Homestead Heritage murdered their Children and tried to kill themselves. I had stated that I knew more about the second mom than the first, because I wasn't in the group when the first mom gave up and did the unspeakable. I have talked and e-mailed with former members who were there. I was a member myself and experienced the feeling of not being worthy to live, rejected by God, unable to please Him, making me feel like an unfit mother. At one point I was suicidal, and had thoughts I can not discuss here. While in HH I also had two other moms confide in me a feeling of serious despair. From what I know, mostly from my own experience and what I know of the second mom's murders, I have formed a personal opinion that it was HH ministry and doctrines at least aided if not caused both moms to loose hope. Prax has e-mailed me concerning the first mom, that the family had left HH and that "Many years and many events and many problems and much 'treatment' went by before the tragedy." He has not defined "many," or "much." I want to acknowledge that I did not hear this anywhere else before. They said the similar things about the second mom, but I knew differently from reading excerpts from her diary and the investigative news report. How "many" and how "much" still have yet to be told me, but I personally don't think it matters. The effects and nightmares people have from their experience in Homestead have been known to go on for over ten years. We have been out for eight years yet my one son still has a hard time, though it is getting better. Other members of my family including myself still feel "triggers" that set off our emotions. Prax wants me to apologize for ever posting it here. I knew for years about the tragedies and reframed from posting. My first post about it was in necessary in response to another posts about the tragedies. Personally, I still feel the occurrence of good dedicated mothers who give up and kill their children they love before committing suicide is too rare to for it to be considered a coincidence when two of them have had the same church ministry and doctrines in common. I also feel that anyone considering joining that church should know. I do not feel to offer an apology for my posts. I will let the readers decide and make their own conclusions. Prax is always free to offer any details for you consider. This is very close to my heart. I knew the second mom and her children. Maybe the Lord let me experience my own time of despair so I could know how a mom can do the unspeakable and try to hold those responsible accountable or at least get them to consider their actions. I will continue to look into this. If anyone has more information I welcome it at formerhh@yahoo.com | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.9.91 |
From private e mails I can say many who left know much more than they tell but some were such a part of the "driving" condemning that they fear to talk because of personal involvement...Some of the e mails I recieved made me cry. | ||
| abh New member Username: abh Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.71 |
hmm wow where to start!!! first off the ambassador fellowship was not apart of HH some of the members along with there minister joined HH at some point i dont remember theyear exactly one thing that strikes me funny is that ya'll claim to totally depend on God but then you say she should have had professional help do you not think God is big enough to help someone like Kelly Blake? maybe ya'll should check the effectiveness of phsycological help and see how many people never get beter im not just saying this off the top of my head my dad used to be a phsycologist and studied the effectiveness long before he came to the conclusion that most people that want help just dont want to see the truth about themselves . do you not think that people need to change? do you believe that were all victims of this or that ? or are you just trying to pick a fight since your precious little article in the tribune was a flop !!!! By the way i heard that they had more people visit the community the following Saturday that they had ever had !!! keep trying maybe ya'll can work yourselves up into a frensy and just get raptured to heaven for all your good!! or maybe you forgot about the Bible speaking of trying to help not tear down others !!! i have never in my short life seen a more desperate group off people trying to ruin another group who believes in the same God!! adam p.s get your facts straight before you judge and judge not lest you be judged | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
hmm wow where to start!!! first off the ambassador fellowship was not apart of HH some of the members along with there minister joined HH at some point i dont remember theyear exactly Yes, and it was these same members, who joined Homestead Heritage, who were told by their HH leader to tell the press they were not affiliated with any other church after Kelly's murders. ya'll should check the effectiveness of phsycological help and see how many people never get beter im not just saying this off the top of my head my dad used to be a phsycologist and studied the effectiveness long before he came to the conclusion that most people that want help just dont want to see the truth about themselves Thank you for confirming to the readers what Homestead Heritage believes about mental illness. one thing that strikes me funny is that ya'll claim to totally depend on God but then you say she should have had professional help do you not think God is big enough to help someone like Kelly Blake Did God amputate Blair Adams' sons leg? Or, perhaps a doctor did it? "do you not think God is big enough to help someone like" Blair Adams son? "my dad used to be a phsycologist... he came to the conclusion... Questions for you: How many elders sons and daughters have left Homestead Heritage and led a wild life like you did? Are you one of them? By the way i heard that they had more people visit the community the following Saturday that they had ever had !!! No surprise. I said they would. "i have never in my short life seen a more desperate group off people trying to ruin another group" I don't know of anyone who is trying to "ruin" Homestead. "and just get raptured to heaven for all your good " Tell me what you know about being saved. How can we be saved? Are you saved? | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.76.49 |
I don't think even the most hurt...the ones that their lives and families are ruined forever desire to ruin HH they just want them to change. | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
abh, Run on sentences, poor grammar, poor punctuation. Work on it buddy; you'll communicate more clearly. Ruin HH? Why, is it a religion worth saving? It makes me mad you people have snookered old friends of mine. I had home group with them. I don't remember them asking permission from the pastor to leave the church in the 1980's. It seems that asking permission to do little things is high on HH's list. These nice people have been taken in by charlatans. I would like you to keep your land, homes, friendships, and God, but not the heresy. I see a recurring theme- you pharisees absolutely refuse to discuss the Bible when you are challenged. Cowards. What do you rascals do? You call us to shame, call us liars, call us evil. Someone is a liar, and it is you or us. Let the right side prevail. BTW, the accusations that I'm full of myself. Well, nope, I'm not. I'll tell you what though, I do not avoid a fight when I think I have to stand up for what I believe in. I'm not intimidated in the least by your spirit talk and warnings. Also, you are not in HH, so why don't you get them to speak up for themselves, rather than have their wordling friends do it for them? | ||
| abh New member Username: abh Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 205.188.116.74 |
Allow me to start with the last post Majajh i'm sorry for my hurried typing i haven't tried too hard as you can see with my grammer and all . i didn't know ya'll required that ! put yourself at ease im not claiming to be spiritual ! i also believe i have the right to speak for myself . for you to claim that HH is having me speak for them is untrue i don't speak for anyone unless i want to ! Your a poor sport if i was on your side you would love me , embrace my poor grammer and my beliefs but how dare i disagree with you!!!!!!!!!!!! next F.H you don't know that they were told that they had nothing to do with HH that is made up what i said about mental help is my own belief not HH my dad and i have talked at length over this it has nothing to do with HH how can you judge who i am and how wild i am, i ohave my own bussiness have a family and two children i don't think you can make me into some stupid wild child who is irresponsible . do you have any children? have they always done everything right? not everyone is perfect! if your not trying to ruin HH what are you doing? and to answer your question am i saved ? nope im not trying to be at this point im just doing what seems best to me ooohhh wait if i believed in free grace i could pretend to be but what if the bible is right and grace has to have works? i want something more in my life than a good feeling religion that you know in your heart is just a cover for the truth ! dont hate me because i disagree with you ! by the way my Dad is not an elder! adam aka your wordling debater | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
what i said about mental help is my own belief not HH my dad and i have talked at length over this it has nothing to do with HH how can you judge who i am and how wild i am, i ohave my own bussiness have a family and two children i don't think you can make me into some stupid wild child who is irresponsible . do you have any children? have they always done everything right? not everyone is perfect! ABH, I am so, so so, sorry. I confused you with another new poster. I went back to find the post where you said you left HH to be wild, and it wasn't you, it was "money_monger." PLEASE for give me for the big mistake. what i said about mental help is my own belief not HH my dad and i have talked at length over this it has nothing to do with HH I assumed your dad was a member of HH. What you said agreed with what Blair wrote in his book on victim status and mental illness. Have you read it? by the way my Dad is not an elder! Your writing looks and sounds like a couple of the posters during the beginning of the homestead fact net thread that I was told who they were. So I thought I would just ask. Please do not be offended. | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
dont hate me because i disagree with you ! I PROMISE you I don't hate you. I feel the love of God for you. God's love is unconditional. Neither do I judge you. | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
and to answer your question am i saved ? nope im not trying to be at this point im just doing what seems best to me We are not saved by what WE do. The Bible tells us all our righteousness is as filthy rags to the Lord. When we repent and believe in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for our salvation we are saved. Then Jesus dwells in us and He does good works through us. You are right. The Bible says that Faith with out works is useless, dead, of no account... That is right. Because when we have REAL faith in Jesus, His works ARE a part of our life. He motivates us by His love working through us towards others. Jesus comes IN and changes us from the heart. He makes us new creations. | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Grace IS free. The Bible says so. "It is a gift of God." Gifts can be received or rejected. Once you truly experience the gift and the joy of salvation, you WANT to do everything you can for your savior out of your love for Him. If you lived right and do good deeds in order to buy grace, then your motivation is self centered. It is for your own sake. When a person really knows Jesus and "Christ in us," then the motivation is love. Jesus gave us two New Covenant commandments: First; Love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul and strength. And second; love your neighbor as yourself. That love is the motivation to glority God and do the work of God. Even unsaved, you find it easier to do good things for your children than a stranger because you love your children. God's love, when Jesus is in us, is SO great that we can love complete strangers, and even love our enemies and those who hurt us. It is that great love of God that becomes apart of us, (internal,) that makes the work God has for us to do an easy yoke to bear. We love others and want to live right so others will be drawn to Jesus. Our good works are for them, not us. That is the love of God, internaly in us, at work. People who feel they have to buy grace are not saved. They can't believe in free grace, so they don't accept it. Because they do not accept it, they don't become a new creature. Everything remains external. They need rules and pressure and the threat of being lost if they don't do good works, in order to keep them in line. They need it, because the nature of Jesus Christ has not become an internal apart of them. This due to unbelief in His finished work at the cross. A prideful man can not accept free grace. He wants to think that he earned it. It is a stumbling block for him. So he will stubble and toil through doing work on his own motivated out of desire to save himself. Accepting the free grace of God is humbling. The fact that even your best behavior and hardest work is not good enough, and not even required, is a blow to pride. You don't get cleaned up to take a bath. You take a bath and you become clean. God loves us while we are still sinners. He saves us, then HE cleans up our lives by the work HE does on our hearts after we are saved. You can only be saved, (Have Jesus dwell in you and have the hope of eternal life,) by applying the blood of Jesus. Only HIS righteous saves. Yours righteousness as filthy rags to God. Pray and ask God to show you what I mean. Read your Bible. God loves you and has a wonderful gift for you, beyond anything I can explain. There are at least a couple young men who have left Homestead Heritage and are living their lives for God all because God first loved them and saved them. Now they love Him back and willingly live their lives for Him. Maybe you should talk to them. I can out you in touch. formerHH@yahoo.com May all the members of Homestead know the true Joy of salvation, rest from their work, and let "Christ in us" shine and work through them. God loves you, FH | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
A tremendous summary of all that God promises to do for us can be found in Ezekiel 36:24-29a: "I will take you out of the nations, I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit in you and move you to follow My decrees and be careful to keep My laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness." | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 36 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
2 Corinthians 5: 14 For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. 16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ... | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Made Alive in Christ Ephesians 2 1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ, by grace you have been saved, 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. God bless the reading of your Word. I ask in Jesus name. FH | ||
| abh New member Username: abh Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.71 |
thanks for clearing up what you said about me being wild and i appreaciate your concern for my lack of desire to be saved as you put it . i just want you to know that i do not nor can i make myself believe that grace is just free you cant take one scripture and base your entire religion on it yes it says grace is free but it also says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling and many other passages that make it clear that to be saved you must work on it daily and not do certain things Jesus said he came to fulfill the law not do away with it so to me that means the ten comandments are still viable ,lying being one of them and i have heard alot of lies on your blogs . not to offend you but i do think you should take a step back and really look at what your doing ,is it building God's kingdom or are you tearing down something that though it may not be perfect or for you, God is using? HH may and i know they have and do admit to making mistakes are they all bad is everything they do to hurt others? so back to my first part i do know how to be saved i just at this point in my life want to live how i want to and not how i believe God wants me too . adam | ||
| foreverhis Junior Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Adam, I apreciate your honesty about why you do not want to be a Christian. I know of no lie I have told in my posts. I am very sensitve about that. I may see things diferently than you, but I won't lie about Homestead. I have read their litterature and filled out the questions to be sure I understood, hand them in, and went onto the nest book etc. Most of it I read at least two times. I raised my family there for seven years. I love those people. I wish what I have said they believe wasn't true. Have you read "By What Authority", and "The Order of Profection" books?" I think you said you left at 27? I suppose you read them, maybe not. I have to get my family ready for Church this morning, so I have to go. I hope we can talk more later. Have a really nice day. God bless you, FH, Robin | ||
| praxaluh New member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
'Foreverhis' "I know of no lie I have told in my posts. I am very sensitve about that." 'Forever_his' you know full well you recently told a terrible untruth on this forum, in a type of willful ignorance of accusation. Granted, whether such an untruth is under one's definition of a 'lie' is a semantic issue. Then you couched the eventual necessary correction in a blizzard of words of accusation to try to mask the truth of the situation (ie. the need to properly acknowledge and retract the very false words you had spoken). The end justifies the means to you and any situation can be assumed to be blamed on HH and they would have to be proven innocent to your satisfaction to allow otherwise. You made that very clear, both in private and on the forum. Personally I believe such a couched and deceptive correction as you gave is often worse than no correction at all. Thus I cannot take your claim above as meaningful. Shalom, Praxaluh PS. Similarly you have had a real had time saying even a single word of correction when others have lied about HH. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 75 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
'Forever_his' you know full well you recently told a terrible untruth on this forum, No I do not know this. Am I supposed to "know this" just because you say so? And who gave you your information? Was it the same people who led DOwen to believe KB had left HH ministry behind long before she killed her children? If you think I am going to believe anything HH leaders told you; forget it. As far as I know nothing I said about the DS, which is very little, is untrue. I am checking into it. You are welcome to offer me some real proof, and when you do I will repent of any wrong doing. Until then I am not going to waste the readers’ time arguing with you about this. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax is blindly following so sad because he is such an intelligent man...goes to show you how cults attract ever the smartest people and lead them blindly into destructon...that is so sad. No matter what Prax has said about me I consider him a very smart man but not a spirit lead man. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
FH, It has been over a month or two. The question is not real complicated. You already know that you had no basis for your accusation, that you omitted telling the most salient fact. That you were clueless and quick to accuse in a terrible manner without the most cursory checking. The fact that you leave it on the table while you research or are 'checking' for months is truly, truly sick, grievous unto God. One of the most horrid examples of the blindness and rage and untruthfulness of the oppos, about which I warned one newbie. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
"that you omitted telling the most salient fact" Is there any "fact" [sic} that I am aware of, (other than names,) that has been left out of this thread? You are implying there is inorder to make me look like I am hiding something. What you are doing is spin and manipulation of the reader. Reader beware: This is how men like Prax and his friends who lead hundreds operate. I have nothing about DS to hide. I want all the information known. Please, do share it with the reader. Let the reader make up his or her mind. Quit trying to manipulate them. I had not heard your "fact" about DS from anyone before you told me. It is the same "fact" that DO tried to give me about Kelly and he was wrong. I am willing to guess that your "fact" originates from the same people. Those people do not control my life anymore. They are not my conscience anymore than you are. My conscience is clear before God. He knows what I base my opinion on and who my sources are. He knows my heart in this matter and He is able to change it because I want Him to if I am wrong. I will apologies if and when He says so. Until then I will stand firm. FH | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
May God forgive you Prax...YOU KNOW that people were told to say the person had no connection with HH...IF you do not know then you have been misinformed... Silent voices are crying can you not hear them? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
and when this happens again what will HH say? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
people are only dumb so long...then the truth gets out. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, Actually FH and Mrs. Alvear are totally deceiving the forum. This is a perfect example of why nothing they say can be trusted. Nothing, zilch, nada. They will deceive in the most terrible ways and even when privately corrected (FH) they will continue to deceive ! On this situation I knew the woman as a dear sister for many years and kept up after that in various ways. It was a very deep and sad tragedy that many wept to hear. Yet it occurred many, many years after moving away from HH, physically and geographically, and of course much occurred in those years. (And there were not auxiliary issues involved as FH is trying so hard to find). I really hesitate to say more here and I don't have much more to say. Earlier, in May, I corrected FH in private very carefully and precisely (she acknowledged she was speaking with absolutely no first-hand knowledge) in about five emails. And yet she is still 'checking' almost two months later, keeping her vicious lie of accusation on the table. Months later, 'ForeverHis' can still not get right with God. This women of deception, FH, essentially wrote to me that if something occurs to a person 30 years after leaving HH it doesn't matter .. she will still blame HH ! These women are truly sick. These women speak terrible evils, they brazenly falsely accuse. And they come to you as "protectors" of ... something. ======================== Keep in mind that it is the trick of the deceiving oppos here to keep in the forefront any difficulty that in any way they can associate with HH. So they actually like a topic like this, a very deep sadness, because it fits their agenda. In a sense they 'win' even when they are shown to be deceivers just by having their topic. And generally they can spin anything they want knowing that this is not the best forum for correction of difficult matters. They know they can keep their own transgression out of the picture, act pure as snow and accuse HH in any way. Yet many readers can perceive what is happenning. And often, yes, there will be silence on this forum in response, it simply is not the proper place. HH was wise to avoid this venue completely. Occasionally some of these oppos go so far off base, as in this case and a couple of others, so clearly driven by a dark agenda, that some will speak up. And if the Lord Jesus calls me to speak, may I not be silent. In Jesus name. That is one reason why I respected U_G on this forum even though he was very much away from HH. He was willing to acknowledge gladly and gracefully the many wonderful aspects of the life and community of HH. He was very slow to seek to be an accuser like these women of deception posting today, especially realizing that most stories have two or three sides. And we all should be very careful to guard our hearts, very slow to entertain railing accusations against precious believers. Most especially from the disaffected who have a vested interest in seeing the community from which they separated hurt, for their own 'spiritual' self-justification. Oh, that gentleman U_G (who at one time had had his own deep difficulties with HH) is gone from the forum and now the floodgates of oppo vitriol have come to the forefront without a Holy Spirit check coming from many others who really want to be fair and truthful. Please be cautious especially with these two women of accusation and deception that have come to the forefront as the oppo cabal leaders, uniting in their warfare against HH. They have been shown to be completely untrustworthy by the events on this very forum. (continues) | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Proverbs 28:14-16 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Happy is the man that feareth alway: but he that hardeneth his heart shall fall into mischief. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 118 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
"people are only dumb so long...then the truth gets out." Mission Girl, how long has it been for you? | ||
| common_sense New member Username: common_sense Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 64.173.169.235 |
'ForeverHis' can still not get right with God. And that is exactly how cult leaders control their followers; thank you, Prax, for providing the perfect example. Cult leaders claim to know when and how a person is "right with God" and it is almost always contingent on being in submission to their authority. Thank God that our standing in the Lord Jesus Christ has NOTHING to do with ANY man!!!!!!!! | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
"Silent voices are crying can you not hear them?" He can't hear them, they are SILENT. Did you ever see that movie, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"? Same thing, never saw any tigers OR dragons. Guess why? They were crouching and hidden. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, The path would actually be simple. FH told a terrible untruth, having no first-hand knowledge whatsover and she apparently ran with very dubious and incomplete second-hand information from those with an agenda. Thus FH simply had no business making the accusation in the first place. She was corrected, in private, after she repeated the accusation and stated it even more falsely than the earlier times. What FH needed to do, and still needs to do, is make a full and clear, uncouched correction. Instead she invoked her own '30-year rule', truly a depraved response. This was a major accusation and FH spoke a terrible untruth, originally in some ignorance. To even now refuse to correct the accusation with a clear retraction is simply not right before God. Shalom, Steven (Message edited by praxaluh on July 05, 2007) | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 79 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Prax you said I had ""omitted telling the most salient fact" I told the reader what you told me in that e-mail. ***** His exact words in blue: Prax has e-mailed me concerning the first mom, that the family had left HH and that "Many years and many events and many problems and much 'treatment' went by before the tragedy." He has not defined "many," or "much." I want to acknowledge that I did not hear this anywhere else before. They said the similar things about the second mom, but I knew differently from reading excerpts from her diary and the investigative news report. http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=417366#POST417366 ********************************** Prax, people in the fellowship are kept in the dark about things like this. They don't read papers and they can't discuss things like this among themselves. This makes it hard for me to find "facts" about this. When I left Homestead Heritage I mentioned Kelly Blake and the deaths to others and they informed me they knew nothing about Kelly‘s tragedy, but they knew that it had happened before in the fellowship. A couple people were members when Deanna was. No one told me that she had been gone from the group. My e-mail was posted here. I had hoped maybe someone besides you, just one other person, could confirm your report to me. Maybe her family? No one has. I have done days worth of internet searches. I have searched for a death certificate and a news article. I even asked the advice of a big investigative firm. I have not given up. If any one can confirm Prax's information, or has any other pertinent information about the Deanna Sminks tragedy please e-mail me at formerhh@yahoo.com (Homestead Heritage leaders and anyone who gets their information from them need not respond. It is no secret that I do not consider them a reliable source of information) to be continued | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
I can not explain how dear this is to my heart. Does anyone else understand how these women did what they did? I understand and it breaks my heart. The sorrow never goes away. I have been in my mind where these women were when I was in Homestead. I believe God let me experience what I did so that I can speak out for these moms and the children. God forbid it should happen again! Altruistic filicide, filicide in which a mother kills her child out of "love," occurs because she believes death to be in the child's best interest. Altruistic filicides can occur, for example, when a mother believes that she is saving her child from a fate worse than death or when a suicidal mother does not want to leave her child to face the uncaring world that she sees through her depressed eyes. When I was in Homestead Heritage, I thought I was among Gods’ people. They had the truth. It was greatly impressed on us that our only hope was within the walls of the fellowship’s covenant. If the leaders were displeased with us it was because God was displeased with us. If we were not accepted by them, we were not accepted by God. If we couldn’t make it with God there, we couldn’t make it anywhere. If you read excerpts from Kelly’s diary and listen to what her son said the day she killed his siblings and tried to kill him, you can see a mom who loved her children deeply and was trying her very best. She was tired and felt she had to do better, but didn’t feel she could. I don't think she felt she had a choice. I had been there. I had told my self just like Kelly did, “Change Robin Change!” I had cried out, "God change me!" Yet I did not know what I had to change to get back on right standing with the leaders/God. They would not tell me. For three years my daughter cried herself to sleep because she could not participate fully like the other children. She wasn’t even allowed to sing in the fair. She had done nothing wrong and we weren’t told what we were doing wrong. We were told that what originaly put us on a lower fellowship status with body had long been forgiven and that it was not the reason we were not restored. But they would not give us a reason. God/the fellowship was holding us at arms length. I wanted nothing more than to please God and be accepted by Him. I wanted it for me, but more than anything , I wanted it for my children. I was not the only one!!! A couple other mothers were going through the same thing. to be continued | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
I am repeating this: It was greatly impressed on us that our only hope was within the walls of the fellowship’s covenant. If the leaders were displeased with us it was because God was displeased with us. If we were not accepted by them, we were not accepted by God. If we couldn’t make it with God there, we couldn’t make it anywhere. No mother who loves her children and really believes what I was taught in the fellowship, is going to take her children “out into the world” or “leave them” to relatives on the outside where they will not be raised by fellowship standards. Do you hear what I am saying? Do you hear what Kelly said? **Blake attempted a more specific explanation during a brief August 1998 interview with Phoenix police: "I remember thinking that there's just no way out, and I was wondering what was going to happen to my kids.... There's nobody to watch them or take care of them right. I, I, I remember, oh, God! It wasn't something I thought about. It was just something that came to my mind." ...It shouldn't have surprised anyone who knew Kelly Blake that she would have taken her children with her when she'd had enough of this life. Her kids were her life. ***** No, I can’t know why Deanna did what she did. All I know is that she, Kelly, and I had more than unthinkable thoughts in common. We had been apart of a group that was "god in the flesh." That at least one time in our lives we served the same “god” (little G,) and were taught the same doctrines, ministered too by the same ministry. Our self-worth and our worth as mothers, all our hope, came from the same place. Did Deanna still believe what she had been taught? Did her experience in the fellowship still influence her beliefs about her relationship to God? Had she been given any other hope? OR…Should I dismiss it because I can not know for sure? Should I really reckon her suicide tragedy as just a coincidence? I am sorry, but God wont let me! I would love to lay this all down and just walk away, give up the grief, ignore the heart ache, and get on with happier things. FH | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.13.215.240 |
I am not a girl I am a old woman... calling me girl makes me feel young again... | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
My personal story has a happy ending. http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=384724#POST384724 Thank You Jesus. Thank You for freeing me from the constant condemnation of those last three years. Thank You for the truth. Thank You for being my salvation. You are worthy of all honor and glory. With You as my shepherd I have want of nothing else. You are my strength and my shield. I have all my hope and trust in you only. You never fail. You have restored my soul and my cup truly runneth over. I am blessed to know Your goodness and Your mercy. I am forever yours. ForeverHis | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Dear friends, Please note carefully. FH shows her wickedness. She specifically had written for about a year about a very difficult tragedy and she totally falsely wrote that it occurred to a woman while in HH. FH has been corrected carefully, and privately at first in the hope that she would take the initiative in full correction (she did not) and so as not to 'put her on the spot' to be fair to FH. And FH has had months to confirm the correction, or at least get a sense that it was accurate. She even admitted in private the complete lack of first-hand info. Now, months later, we see FH appealing to the forum, defacto: "Someone get me out of the jam of my wicked words - someone please, with some new information" And throwing up a smokescreen blizzard of other issues (which really must be discussed separately) to try to hide her wickedness in this matter. And this woman of darkness still cannot simply say: "I made a huge error in that accusation .. please .. it is off the table .. that was a terrible untruth of accusation. Yes, I spoke in ignorance, yet I really had an obligation to check before I spoke. And I did not do so .. my very deep apologies to the forum and to HH. And I will seek God for far more caution with my words." Those would be truthful words from FH. Really, that is the minimum for integrity. Then she could say, if she really wants her 'point'. (although it would be best left aside). "I do still have concerns .. if I learn more, I will carefully share as led in the future, trying to be sensitive and cautious in the most delicate matters" However we see that FH cannot, in her wickedness, simply retract her accusation. And as she indicated to me, even if 30 years went by she would blame HH. What a shameful abomination. Remember this woman had specifically written the lying accusation. Until she speaks a clear and straightforward word of retraction FH is in a very difficult place before God. These oppos like FH are the folks who parse every word from HH in order to make the smallest accusation about any matter, yet they will hold on to their own huge and tragic lies with every effort possible. Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Shalom, Praxaluh PS And there was absolutely no need to put the ladies full name in the forum. In the spiritual rebellion and desperation of FH for self-justification FH is transgressing all boundaries of integrity in many ways. My suggestion, ask the FH moderators to do a name removal. Anybody who is going to send you your hoped-for gossip should surely be able to handle that on their own. Plus private is available. (Message edited by praxaluh on July 06, 2007) | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
Prax, You’re the pot calling the kettle black. Robin speaks the truth in these matters. HH was quick to disassociate the whole group in Arizona. HH is indirectly responsible for the actions of Kelly. You are being fed info from a group that will do and say anything to protect their image. You are so full of yourself it is rather nauseating. You have not been on the ‘inside’ of HH for years and years. You simply type info you are receiving from the leaders at HH. Robin personally experienced many of events she writes about. Your posts illustrate the heavy-handed ways of HH leaders. Then you have the audacity to include the sweet name of Jesus at the end of your tirades. Blasphemy it is! | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
DOwen and your attitude was a driving force to get the local newspaper involved. Your continued evil spirit will be the fuel to get a national media entity interested enough to pick up where Cindy left off. And they, the national boys, will not be as gentle. So go pat yourself on the back some more. You are helping make the case we need for the network to look again. It also helps that Koresh was from the Waco area. They may try to tie them together. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
"Blasphemy it is!" Yoda is now posting on Factnet... | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
and they are looking...this time higher levels will get involved...you can only control people so long...remember the village? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
Yeah Dowen, New Levels = New Devils! M. Night has forgotten about The Village, why should we remember it? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
"and they are looking"... Dowen has been SO very secretive about his identity and that of his family and his motives and his feelings, that they'll never find him. It will take the FBI to figure who he is and where he lives, they are going to have to look hard.. maybe behind the Dr. Pepper Museum or in the men's room at the Tractor Supply Distribution Center. Maybe one of them FD's or FM's or FH's or someone can find him, like using a Texas divining rod or something. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 95 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
you make killings sound funny and beatings and bondage... | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
are you a clown in some circus? You know I once won a clown to Jesus and today he pastors a church in Brazil... | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 127 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6KWt49wIA "You know I once won a clown to Jesus and today he pastors a church in Brazil" I knew about that, he's doing a great job!!! | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I don´t care about opening your tube so just keep the joke for someone else. I am of a more serious mindset. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 99 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Have you ever read about the Salvation Army general that asked to live within a mile of hell. My friend that is just about the world we live and work in...I stand between the living and the dead. I have little time for such silly words. If I take out of my time to write here it is because I personally saw grave danger at Homestead Heritage. I do not have time for a lot of "light" talks. It is serious to me when mothers are driven to kill their children, when people´s sex life is brought up at funerals, when leaders have let power go to their heads and they boss around God´s little ones like they were dumb animals. I wouldn´t talk to my dog the way I saw leaders talk to their "sheep". I think HH has the making for a very dangerous cult and that is why I am here. Any so called religion that would try to get people to do things using God´s name and prophecies need to be investigated...and mark it down when that happens and scales fall off people´s eyes it will NOT be so funny. | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
Amen | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 84 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
"...FH is in a very difficult place before God" Prax, You are entitled to your own opinion, but to claim your opinion as God's... I fear for you. You are wrong. God is near me. He is speaking clearly to me right now. He is strengthening me. I have no fear of men and your intimidation has no affect on me. It can not even make me angry. I feel His heart for those who are and have been oppressed. In my opinion they have been oppressed by men with too much power over others, men who claim all the power of God, but can not manifest God's righteousness in the Spirit and must use man made rules and intimidation and oppression. That is not the power of God. The Lord is on the side of the oppressed. Psalm 103:6 The LORD performs righteous deeds And judgments for all who are oppressed. Psalm 82:3 3 Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Psalm 146:3-9 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish. How blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, Whose hope is in the LORD his God, Who made heaven and earth, The sea and all that is in them; Who keeps faith forever; Who executes justice for the oppressed; Who gives food to the hungry The LORD sets the prisoners free. The LORD opens the eyes of the blind; The LORD raises up those who are bowed down; The LORD loves the righteous; The LORD protects the strangers; He supports the fatherless and the widow, But He thwarts the way of the wicked. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, "You make killings sound funny.." Mrs. Alvear has again fallen to the level of great sickness in speech. ====== h75, this is not a discussion about KB, you can write to me privately for my heart and sense in that regard. My comments above are about a very dark and sick lie that Robin told on a totally different situation, and Robin does not have the simple integrity to retract. A situation where she knew basically absolutely nothing. A lie so dark that I do not believe that one who speaks in that manner can walk with God without a clean and full retraction and repentance. God knows. Such would not be difficult if FH sought the wisdom of God on the matter with a humble heart. A fine weekend to you all, and may these words be considered outside of politics, seeking to be sincere and truthful before God. Shalom, Praxaluh praxeus@bigfoot.com | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I make killings funny? Prax I weep because of this happening. How do I make it funny? Prax you have showed how ignorant you are of HH and what has gone on there. I really thought you smarter. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
How could I think murder is funny? No I do not think murder is funny and neither do I think what drove her to do it is funny. You seen to think lightly of serious matters. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Mrs. Alvear, Prax simply quoted one of your post's, and you turned it around and twisted it into something he never meant for it to be. This slippery behavior is typical of you, and it comes as no surprise to see you sink to this level. FH, You are in a very difficult place, whether you admit it or not. You keep bringing up situations which you know little about, and acting like you are the authority about them. Let's face the facts. You are trying to politicize two tragic situations, and use them to not only soothe your own tortured soul, but also use them to harm others. What kind of sick person are you? Is there no limit to the depth of depravity you will sink to, just to justify your own behavior? The husband of one of the women you are shamelessly using doesn't even blame HH for what happened. Oh well, it's just another inconvenient fact for you to ignore. Just like all the other ones. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
sick situation?created by who? HH... I twisted nothing... I do not think murder,scaring people in God´s name,Unlawful Imprisonment of children, shunning and splitting families,isolating children in rooms for years at a time, teaching people they are Jesus in the flesh, Physical Torture, Mental torture,Screeaming pointing fingers in peoples face in meetings or anywhere else, Blackmail, Child Abuse disastrous prophecies, falsehoods, or any such things are right... Shall I add names and more? Doubt if you know anything about things like these do you? Brainwashed people rre limited to what they really see and understand...I have taught many JW and LDS in Brazil...same pattern...I old Roxie that was a great danger and I tell you Daniel. When people grown people run like kids to tattle on others something is wrong,horribly wrong... When all this comes out and it will just where will you be Daniel? Whether you like it or not your parents are part of a cult that has lead to death and bondage...by their own teachings... | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Whether you like it or not your parents are part of a cult that has lead to death and bondage... I guess I am an idiot and a stupid fool. I interact with HH members daily, and I see no bondage or death. I share meals almost daily with HH members, and I see happy folks. No death, no bondage, no abuse. Just happy people. I guess I am a blind dolt who can't see death when it is right in front of me... DOwen. (AKA "The buffoon") | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I guess you are...your posts and your words prove you know nothing except what they want you to know. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Yup, I am a blind fool. I spend hours everyday with HH members, and never once have I seen death or bondage in them. I guess HH members are all spectacular actors. Either that or I am the dumbest man to have ever walked the planet. Because of course it is impossible for you to be wrong.  Observations of a deranged idiot, DOwen. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 110 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Daniel, I have been wrong many times in my life but I am not wrong about HH. I wanted what I saw to be true but it was not and I will not lie, cover up or take up for wrong. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
And neither will I. But I am an idiot... The asylum bound DOwen. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Daniel, we stand on two opposite sides I am sorry for that however covering up for wrong doings IF you know about them is a sin. I know a lot more about HH than you think I do...things I would never put on this board... I do not think you are an idot don´t lower yourself. In fact I think you are fighting for what you love. I do not think you know what I know. I am glad you don´t I wish I did not know either. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
things I would never put on this board... One time I was hanging out at a friends house, about 4 year ago, and being the "idiot" that I am I was talking alot of smack. Finally a guy sitting next to me grabbed me by my collar and told me to "Put up or shut up". Perhaps you should do the same. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Not here...there will be a time. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
OK, then why don't you wait for that time instead of making comments you can't provide documentation for now. It seems simple to me, but I am stupid, so carry on. X (DOwen) (Message edited by dowen on July 08, 2007) | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
because waiting agrees with evil... | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Prax you brought this up on another thread today, so I will respond here again: Prax said here: "On this situation I knew the woman as a dear sister for many years and kept up after that in various ways." Tells me Prax, what does "in various ways" mean? You told me, "Possibly the last time I saw her was the wedding however my close friends saw her much later until they left." What wedding? Left what? HH? So was ___ ___ still in HH when your friends left? Were your friends your "various ways" of "keeping up with her?" Sorry to be so sceptical, but my experience dealing with HH and their twisted ways of answering questions has done that to me. I am still honestly looking to see why I should believe you. *** Here is a quote in something I received from HH when I was a member. This was to the leaders from someone who was familiar with the situation. "I pray the tears of ______ ________ [the husband's name] and the silent screams of his wife and children would resound from the grave to wake you up to the spiritual holocaust you gave created!" Tell me again... Why should I believe YOU? You, who are a friend of the leaders of Homestead, leaders who directed members to lie to the press in the KB case? I am not going to apologize for lying if I don't think I lied. I would be a hypocrite if I apologized for something I have no repentant feelings about. I told you a while back that I would not bring this case up again until I had some hard facts, but you are doing a good job of keeping it on the table. ****** I need the person who told me he/she knew I.S. well, and my other past contacts, to contact me again and tell me if THEY think I should apologize. If those people think I should continue my investigation I need some help with "time and place." If they think I should let this drop I want to know that. I can't be sure any of you are reading this, but if you are I want to consider your feelings. I can give you another e-mail or phone number if you first send a e-mail to me at this address. formerhh@yahoo.com I can delete your e-mail after you send it. Sincerely FH} | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
I found this statment of intrest by Roger Olson. He is the same baylor professor who wrote the article about Homestead Heritage the February 2005 edition of Christianity Today. "They're not seeing this as a mental illness. They're seeing it as the person having demons, perhaps, or a sin problem or not being spiritually fulfilled," said Roger Olson, a theology professor at Baylor's Truett Seminary. Olson said that while religion doesn't cause mental illness, he believes existing conditions can be inflamed by religious environments where leaders demand absolute obedience and claim to speak for God. People with schizophrenia, personality disorders and a host of other mental disorders may be drawn [] such faiths for their structure, he said. "This kind of culture, religious atmosphere, group dynamic can set up a situation where that person is more likely to act out in aggressive ways under tremendous pressure," Olson said. In my research I have found at least four mothers who killed their children that followed the extremist, legalistic views of self-appointed prophets. Two of them had a history in Homestead Heritage in common. FH | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 103 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
I forgot to put the source for the Olson statement above. RELIGIOSITY COMMON AMONG MOTHERS WHO KILL CHILDREN ASSOCIATED PRESS 12/13/2004 | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 135 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
and someone wrote me it is dangerous that it may happen again...who...why... who I don´t know...why I would say pressure related... The kind of pressure that would make a wife run off and say not even the children or even the people know the real reason...until she comes back to confess how rebelious she is... the pressure that so called leaders put on people that drive them from ever doing what they would love to do like take a vacation, read a magazine or whatever... Pressure that drives people is not a religion...it is a dangerous cult and authorities need to step in and set people free. After a person becomes a robot they loose the power to think for themselves. I saw that in Sister Roxie´s case. SHE WANTED to do things but they made her believe she did not want to. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 136 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
and someone wrote me it is dangerous that it may happen again...who...why... who I don´t know...why I would say pressure related... The kind of pressure that would make a wife run off and say not even the children or even the people know the real reason...until she comes back to confess how rebelious she is... the pressure that so called leaders put on people that drive them from ever doing what they would love to do like take a vacation, read a magazine or whatever... Pressure that drives people is not a religion...it is a dangerous cult and authorities need to step in and set people free. After a person becomes a robot they loose the power to think for themselves. I saw that in Sister Roxie´s case. SHE WANTED to do things but they made her believe she did not want to. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 138 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
and someone wrote me it is dangerous that it may happen again...who...why... who I don´t know...why I would say pressure related... The kind of pressure that would make a wife run off and say not even the children or even the people know the real reason...until she comes back to confess how rebelious she is... the pressure that so called leaders put on people that drive them from ever doing what they would love to do like take a vacation, read a magazine or whatever... Pressure that drives people is not a religion...it is a dangerous cult and authorities need to step in and set people free. After a person becomes a robot they loose the power to think for themselves. I saw that in Sister Roxie´s case. SHE WANTED to do things but they made her believe she did not want to. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
F_H, your attempt at an interrogation falls to the ground. You are the one with blood on your hands with a terrible accusation which you need first, today is the day, to retract and repent. I wrote to you privately some, you have taken months, and all you do is flounder about desperately seeking some gossip from somebody that you can use to accuse. What sickness. Why not simply be a woman of honor and first and foremost simply retract your abominable accusatory words against HH on this matter. Fully and simply. You spoke them, you are the one who needs to make the retraction and apology, to the forum and to HH. Then the air will be cleansed and matters can be discussed and shared. And as I did before, most of the discussions should be one-on-one private. Simply to help to have God's mind -- not to make a public spectacle -- as is your shame. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 141 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
whenever anyone disagrees with Prax they are always wrong...Prax is only right in his own eyes..sad condition he finds himself in.. The shame that a bunch of men have brought on God´s name is ever before us on this board and a group of us will never stop praying until justice is done. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 142 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
whenever anyone disagrees with Prax they are always wrong...Prax is only right in his own eyes..sad condition he finds himself in.. The shame that a bunch of men have brought on God´s name is ever before us on this board and a group of us will never stop praying until justice is done. | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
Blood on her hands? I don't see any. Why should she take it back? Oops, said something bad about people who wear ugly clothes, no makeup, and don't eat pork. If that ain't holy, I don't know what is?! | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 143 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax has hh personality...he seems to think he is the judge of all...poor guy... | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 144 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax has hh personality...he seems to think he is the judge of all...poor guy... | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 145 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax has hh personality...he seems to think he is the judge of all...poor guy... | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, you really should read the threads before commenting. You have accused HH of murder, which is a blood libel. ForeverHis has done similar in her method of falsely accusing HH in regard to a tragic incident. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 154 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I have accused no one of murder. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 156 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
So that is how you would pastor someone...leave them in the cold and claim no connection when they most needed you. Thank you for giving us insight to your pastoral thinking. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, you recently gave the forum your whole litany of accusations against HH. "I do not think murder,scaring people in God´s name,Unlawful Imprisonment of children, shunning and splitting families,isolating children in rooms for years at a time, teaching people they are Jesus in the flesh, Physical Torture, Mental torture,Screeaming pointing fingers in peoples face in meetings or anywhere else, Blackmail, Child Abuse disastrous prophecies, falsehoods, or any such things are right..." Your tongue is on fire and you are trapped in your own world of confusion and accusation. You are playing to the warfare-oppo crowd for your own self-justification. And a sister lovingly warned you of the direction you were heading. You would do well to be cautious of every word, every idle word, that you speak. Yours in Jesus name, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
Don't you just love Prax's "spirit speak"? | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 157 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
lol | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
By "spirit speak" I mean: Is that the dialect north of Waco, or are you trying to deliver a, "Thus saith the Lord" on us? Talk plainly son. Bad news- you aren't a prophet, and neither are the people at Homestead Heritage. Any, "Oh my children/ oh my people/ or, thus saith the Lord" are not of God. That's reserved for the Bible. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, the nervous 'lol' is not appropriate. Maybe have a time of reflection and then reread the sickness that came from your own hand. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 160 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I am not nervous...I would say you will be before this is over...who knows.. I will paste Grace Alone post here with apology to GA. Prax, I wanted to clarify what I meant too. I also was not talking about spanking, I was talking about the stuff like whipping with switches for 20, 30 or more minutes daily every day, elders advising parents to remove their toddlers diaper and whip them until they bleed to get rid of the evil spirit, the notion that it is okay to physically discipline YOUNG babies, confinement of youth to their room for days, weeks or even months with insufficient nourishment (example water and bread meals only) and a bathroom trip or two a day etc. This is what I meant by abuse. Kids in these situations need help and if the leadership or the parents can not assure that the child lives in safetey the authorities need to, because I can personally attest that this type of physical abuse really is HARD to overcome as an adult, through God's grace alone have I been able to get to the point I'm at, a peace and a knowledge that I am safe in Christ, but some of the people raised in the fellowship have a hard time seperating the God that allowed them to be beaten and hurt from the real God so they don't have God to turn to because of what they went through they can't turn to Him to help them get over it. So it was not spanking that I spoke of even though spanking is not the discipline choice I use with my kids, I have a difficult time with any type of physical punishment. I don't spank but thats not what I meant by abuse because even though I have my personal hangups with it because of real abuse in my childhood if I think about it I can seperate spanking from abuse and realize that some parents can correctly use it as a way of discipline. But I wanted everyone to know that I was not talking about spanking. I was talking about types of abuse like I listed above. Hope this helps, Grace Alone NOW you weep for those poor blinded people that have taught to spank babies...YES and I heard it said myself while I was there. Beat a little baby...come on Prax... Put kids in their room for days, months and one letter to me said YEARS... No wonder my children said that was the most afraid kids they ever saw in their life... The reflection I think about is ever taking them for their word... Tell us why you don´t sit their under bondage? | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
Oh great physician Prax, who determines healthy people are sick! Ya ain't Elijah big guy, so stick to modern speech patterns, not Old Testament King Jimmy speech. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Maja, Maja, Maja. Your post's are welcome here, as long as they continue on in the pattern of the one above. To pick on someone for having a far more extensive vocabulary than our own is childish and, pardon my bluntness, nothing more than stupid. If that is the image of the great Maja that you want to portray, then by all means, continue on. Your post's make for a weird kind of comedic relief. One question you must at some point ask yourself is; Who have you allied yourself with? Mrs. Alvear? The radical Pentecostal who doesn't allow her followers to wear Wedding Bands? The leader of a Church that has restrictions as to how long a womans sleeve should be? And you thought keeping up with high school football scores to be unimportant! Do you really wish to align yourself with someone who teaches 'radical' doctrines like ML does? Surely someone like you, a real Christian maverick, wouldn't dare place himself under a Ministry like Mrs. Alvear's... There would be far too much bondage for a rebel like yourself, but don't let that stop you from siding with her in your attack of HH. Just remember, The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What a strange pair you two make... Never in a million years could you two agree on Church standards for Holiness, or various versions of the Trinity, or doctrine in general, yet you unite in your hatred and attack of HH. I find it sad that a common hatred and viciousness toward another will unite "Christians" much faster than Love, Peace, Patience etc. etc. could ever hope for. DOwen. | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
I'm glad you love me brutha! | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 168 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
LOL Daniel...you are very sick... | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 81 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Physician, heal thyself... | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 170 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
no time to write here...getting ready for a minister conference. I pray that God give you peace. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 171 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
no time to write here...getting ready for a ministers conference. I pray that God give you peace. | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
The topic here isn't UPC, but HH. When Butch, Stan, and Pat left their former church, they did not heed the pastor's advice that he didn't approve of it. Now they get to follow every little thing they are told by their masters. My family and I: went to the Rockies, Arches Nat. Monument, the Grand Canyon, and live 30 minutes from Waikiki. No permission from my masters. How would you rather live? | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 173 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
In my ministry no one is shunned, no one is separated from their families even if they leave our church, people have freedom of internet and the media, no one has to bring their plans for us to ok, I have NEVER heard my husband shout at anyone. I have never seen my husband or any of our minister shaking and pointing fingers in other people’s faces. I have never seen him stomp out because someone could not sing his song. I have never seen him disrespect our members or belittle them. Nobody is driven to kill...no little ladies are denied permission to spend time with their children. No one is disassociated when they need the church the most. No babies are beat, spanked and I personally know of no one that has beaten their children till blood runs down backs and legs. No one sends their kids for days weeks months and years to their room and I have never heard of no one punishing their children giving them only bread and water for days. No group of so called Jesus in the flesh is in our church policing the people around. Our people are not afraid of each other running to tell the pastor some member’s sin or shortcoming. Dowen do people get legal lience to marry at HH? Since you think HH is so great why don´t you tell us about those grown kids be put in diapers? Why don´t you tell us why HH lied on the crow family? Why don´t you tell us why they did not let Sister Roxie go to Belize and they had just told her in my presence they felt an ok from the Holy Spirit. Why did they have her calling us late at night telling us they changed their mind and she could not go? You think I am going to fall for some type God that cannot make up His mind about things? I think it was a shady deal putting up missionary things about our mission at their fair and never ever discussing it with us. Maybe I am used to working together. We would never put up someone´s mission pictures under false pretense. We just had mission sunday not long ago and I showed pictures from Africa but first I talked with the missionary and got permission and they sent us the pictures...Yes and Brazil did send them a mission offering. Do they belong to my fellowship group? No. Do they belong to Jesus? Yes. In 40 years of ministry I have NEVER asked one person to destroy an idol god much less take off a wedding band. You are right I do not wear them but the group I hold a card with wears them and always has. Just because I asked HH why they wore rings when they were so srick does not mean I think someone is hell bound with a wedding ring. The greatest missionary of the UPC church wears a wedding band...Sister Nona Freeman. You are a little off on what has been told to you but of course they told you about the offering you have brought up several times. Did they tell you all about the Crow family too? | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 174 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I do not belong the the United Pentecostal church. I do have friends that are UPC in fact their missions director dedicated two of my babies to the Lord many years ago but I also have friends that are Baptist, Assembly of God and from many groups. Most members know that I am a pentecoatal missionary. Even Brother Philip knows that. We do not see eye to eye but neither my church or the churches repreneted here believe in abuse. Our church is a Cathdral of Praise. We have wonderful services. Sweet people that came from the depths of devil worship. We are law abiding citizens. Now go sign your unto death paper or quit holding up FOR SOMETHING YOU WILL NOT BE A MEMBER OF. IF your folks are from HH they are in bondage even according to Pentecostal standards. I saw how hungry those people were to read a newspaper they couldn´t keep their eyes off them when we went places...lol...get real. Why hid the news of the world for someone? You produce people that do not know what to do once they have to face the REAL world... Help people to be christians...love God, serve God. If reading a time magazine or a newpaper would cause someone to lose their holiness then they did not have much to start with... You are a product of HH...we see you shinning brightly here. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Yep. Daniel is 100% right about the mentality of the oppos being : "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Everything sensible is subsumed to the rage against HH. Folks left under various circumstances, they are hurt or confused. Rather than examine themselves, the only thing that matters to them is "who else is attacking HH - that will give me self-justification" That is why the oppo land is so impoverished spiritually. It is built on a foundation of porous sand. And that is why I share with those who might really be seeking and searching and really think they have concerns or questions to be considered. Please -- be aware of the demonic dynamic here (murderers, torturers, etc.). 1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.94.95.28 |
What do you know, the Old Testament legalist Prax finally referred to the New Testament! Pass those spiritual biscuits and jam over to us impoverished people Prax! | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 122 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
I thought this post is relevant to this thread since it was referencing it. FH ****************** in_season New member Username: in_season Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 24.162.115.221 Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 1:47 pm: Consider the following, I use initials and such so you will know what I am saying yet not many others will know. FH spoke of the tragic events where DS K her children and then K herself. M&D were some of the earliest members and met and married in the group. RA personally tried to help DS. There is no doubt that B&RA and whole church were devastated by the event as they truly loved this couple. I do not know that any blaim for the event could be laid at the feet of HH but the event is real it did happen. Now with K it has repeted itself, (with K FH knew personally). These two tragedies did occur. So, the question is, is FH lying because she brings them to the forfront or because she indicates that HH should accept the association and some responcibility. Should Emmaus / HH be begging God to find out if indeed they could have done something differently? In their defense no doubt there was much of that going on behind the scenes. In public HH did totally distance themselves from the K situation leaving many people out to dry and feeling completely abandoned by the people they thought they were in covenant with. I am not trying to be glib, just wondering if it is the tragic events themselves or as you indicated FH did not know enough about DS in particular to speak of it. Is the fact that these events were of actual physical death and not just a drawn out spiritual devastation that often leads to spiritual death? | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 210 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax do you affirm or deny that Physical Torture, YES LITERALLY, TORTURE, takes place at HH? Do you affirm or deny children have beaten with hundreds of strokes until blood ran down the legs, and they fainted. Do you affirm or deny children have been required to go without proper nourishment, for periods of time? Do you affirm or deny that no screaming takes place at HH...I mean elders screaming at people, belittling them? Have more questions for you...but let us here Your answers... | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 211 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I am wondering why people that were in HH at completely different time spans all write the same things to me...If a few wrote we might chalk up to the disgruntled few but when I see a pattern of the same things mentioned over and over it is shocking and especially people not wanting their name published because they have friends or family at HH. Things are not right. Why would anyone be afraid of a true church? People may not like a church, may not believe in the doctrine a church preaches but to be afraid of a church tells me and the rest of the world something is wrong...dangerously wrong...and they will be investigated in time. You cannot scream and belittle people forever. Everyone that has ever lived or been closely associated with HH knows the elders scream at people and for HW to publically deny that fact and tell an outright lie to Waco newspaper made me loose any faith at all that I tried to have believing they would ask forgiveness, admit the truth and say they had failed…It takes a REAL person of God to say, I failed but I was trying but just anyone can lie. It pains me deeply to write here on factnet. BUT I will NOT lie for them or for anyone else. I will not cover up for them as suggested by some. I will NOT have blood from innocent people on my hands I will lift my voice and cry out for I am a woman of God. HH may use scare tactics on some but I am not afraid and I will not be brainwashed or Prophesied into obeying them. I might be a simple person but not that simple. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
From Forever His I have learned much more concerning DS and her and her husbands involvement with the leaders of HH after a lengthy conversation with someone who knew her husband while he went through this. My opinion in this matter has been reinforced by what I have learned. My original three sources were correct. Prax, you were either given misleading information, or you, like Cindy you were left to draw your own conclusions by carefully worded statements. Maybe you were just being hopeful. Love hopes all things. There is nothing wrong with that. Deep down inside, I was hoping Prax was right. That would have relieved some of the concern I have about possible future tragedies along the line. My hope and prayer is that, (like the poster earlier mentioned,) HH would “be begging God to find out if indeed they could have done something differently,” and prevent such utter despair and tragedy from occurring again I am not going to talk anymore about this for a little while either here or in e-mails. This new information has rekindled the heavy grieving I have been carrying in my heart for years. Please give me this time I need. Sincerely, FH | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.72.123.217 |
Hi Folks, For the readers a couple of things should be made very clear. F_H started with a terrible untruth, that the woman was in HH, rather than this tragedy occuring many years after leaving. F-H did not know even the most basic facts yet she wrote publicly a complete falsehood. Then she switched to claiming that anything that happens to anyone 10, 20 or 30 years after they leave HH -- she retains the right to assign blame, not just the right, she will do so .. even if she knows little or nothing. We should not be surprised that her cry for someone to give her the same perspective of a gossipper and accusor would come up with another oppo who wants to look at things through the same glasses as F-H. That is how she started out by accusing without even knowing the most basic facts. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.49.94.218 |
Just an observation: FH has at least 4 people giving her the same information, and one (Prax) who gives a different story, but apparently without much fact or solid proof to back up his claims. Sorry Prax, but unless you can back up what you have told FH with some solid numbers/facts I think you'd be better off dropping the case. 4 to 1 is pretty slim, especially without strong evidence. On a personal note, I haven't spoken to anyone about this and do not claim to know any facts or hold an opinion on whether or not HH had anything to do with this case. I am just making a plain and simple observation. | ||
| praxaluh Intermediate Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.72.123.217 |
Hi usedtobelong, Since nobody has even denied the most basic fact of the matter, that F_H was simply wrong with a terrible untruth in her original fundamental claim, that she had been fed and accepted recklessly wrong information, and that many years had passed, your post is very strange. So please remember this whole discussion began with a reckless disregard of the truth and such people are very unreliable for honest understanding. Once burned, twice shy. Now I understand that there is a funk list where folks try to encourage each other in blaming HH for everything so we can conjecture that is your 'source' of sorts .. and why you miss acknowledging even the most basic truth. As always, like I invited F_H when I corrected her originally (and she responded with the infamous '30 years+ rule') you and others are welcome to discuss matters with me privately, and if there is a real sincerity and earnestness any matter discussed can be edifying. Shalom, Praxaluh praxeus@bigfoot.com | ||
| h75 Junior Member Username: h75 Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
Prax, You base your statements 100% on what you are told by HH. F_H bases her statements on what she is told. We have proof that HH will and has told many untruths. For you to declare that she is wrong and you are correct is ludicrous. YSince this all happened after you left the church you only repeat that which you are fed by Daniel's dad. Give me and the rest of these folks a break! | ||
| praxaluh Intermediate Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 106 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.72.123.217 |
Hi Folks, h75, you are very wrong in virtually every point. Not unusual for the oppos. While I really look forward to meeting Daniel and his dad, to this date I have not had the honor, outside a cordial and appreciated short email or two from Daniel awhile back. Remember I have visited HH long after I left, and spoken to people in and out. F_H actually has defacto acknowledged that she was totally wrong in the most basic fact of her accusation. Which is a starting point. However that should have been accompanied with a clear and direct and earnest apology to the forum and more especially to HH, which she obstinately refuses to give. This woman is incapable of even the most basic and simple fairness. And especially after showing an incredible recklessness for the truth one should share only with a renewed guardedness, caution, reserve. Only a small number of those who post on this forum seem to understand even the fundamentals of proper speech before GOd. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh Junior Member Username: majajh Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 198.250.180.194 |
Yeah, yeah, they are as clean as the wind-driven snow. I always know which of my employees is wrong when they claim the other person did it, and they did nothing. I haven't seen so many useless wordy paragraphs since hearing John Kerry. | ||
| wise_as_a_serpent New member Username: wise_as_a_serpent Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
First off, I have no first hand knowledge of the situation with DS. Any knowledge that I have is second hand at best, and most is also a decade or more in the past. As such, I have refrained from commenting on things that I don’t have knowledge about. I have discussed the situation with ForeverHis in private and told hear what I felt about the situation and what she has written. Since those conversations are private, I will not bring up anything of them here. From my limited perceptive, I have only one multiple question, at this time, that I wished to be answered, which will could go a long way to eliminating any lingering questions that I, and many others, may have on the subject. I base this question on past history, second hand reports, and recent writings. When I was a member I had heard ‘rumors’ of what had happened to DS. The event was mentioned in a letter to the church. That the event happened is not in question. The event predated my time there, but postdated the time that most of the fellowship moved from Colorado to Austin. If my history is correct, this would place it in a maximum of a five year interval. To me, a year is a year. A couple of years are two or three. A few years are three or four. Several years are four to six, and many years are five or more. Praxaluh has stated that, “…it occurred many, many years after moving away from HH….” This would lead me to believe that the event took place 5+(many) plus 5+(many) or 10+ years after DS left Homestead Heritage. This is in conflict to everything that I have heard. So my question is, how many years after DS left (physically left, not ‘she left in her heart’), did the event take place? And did ministry still take place to her from Homestead Heritage, through the elders and/or husband) even after she moved away “…physically and geographically….” | ||
| yeoman New member Username: yeoman Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 207.69.137.26 |
To Whom It may Concern, I will relay what I know of the ES and DS family. They were here when we came. My occasional contact was with ES: workdays, saying hello at meetings, not real deep. My impression was of a brother who loved Jesus and had given a lot to be a part of HH, having moved to Texas from NY state, I believe. I heard two more bits of info after they left. 1) DS was in such deep distress after being disassociated/disfellowshipped that some time on the road back to where they were going, she tried to jump out of the car travelling at high speed. Her husband saved her by grabbing her by the hair and pulling her back in. I can't remember who told me that but I believe it was a responsible source. 2) When I asked a group leader why they left, he replied that it was because of the way ES related to his wife. What struck me was it was the same way the elders and group leaders related to me many times and how I related to my family after 15 years of conditioning by the same group leaders! We rarely heard the real reasons why people left. I remember asking my group leader why another highly respected leader left and the answer was," He just couldn't submit to authority". It dawned on me when I heard the same thing about myself that this was a "one-size-fits-all" explanation. That leader really left over the caste system that keeps people on Friday night status for years. We never heard a word about that when he left, only that he had broken covenant. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 125 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
Yeoman, this doesn't line up with what I was told. Please e-mail me at formerhh@yahoo.com I would like to know the truth. | ||
| praxaluh Intermediate Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.72.123.217 |
Hi Folks, waas, If you would prefer one 'many' that is fine. Most of the other discussion is unnecessary here, one can say offbase, wrong. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 221 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.43.232.86 |
To be TRUTH it has to fit Praxaluh's truth...lol.. Anybody in their right mind KNOWS something went terribly wrong... See how many churches abandon their sick and hurting? | ||
| wise_as_a_serpent New member Username: wise_as_a_serpent Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
I will adjust my above statement slightly to be more accuate, in that, the event may have happened while I was a member. I just assumed from the 'rumors' that the it happened in the further past then it may have actually occured. That doesn't change my time though, as I was being extremely generous in my five year. So, Praxaluh, from your post and my definition of many, should I assume that you know that the event happened five or more years after DS's departure from Homestead Heritage (or whatever name they were using at that time)? | ||
| in_season New member Username: in_season Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 24.162.115.221 |
Prax, You wrote. "F_H started with a terrible untruth, that the woman was in HH, rather than this tragedy occuring many years after leaving. F-H did not know even the most basic facts yet she wrote publicly a complete falsehood." I suppose it depends on how you look at things, sometimes on how you say them. There was a movie a few years ago where the prosecution discredited the expert witness by bring up the fact that |
