| Author | Message | ||
     bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.245.221 |
Okay, I will start! And after you tell your experience, let us know what you learned. ---- I live in NYC and in the late 80s/early 90s, I attended Heart To Heart Ministires, pastored by Bobby and Leigh Valentine. They were a nice and passionate young couple, eager to "take New York City for Jesus!" Leigh was an attractive blonde and worked at Bloomindales sometimes, spritzing perfume on women and she really wanted the the "prosperous life." But in NYC, it costs a LOT of money to exist and to start a church, it's a real uphill batttle. We probably had about 50 people attending the church and I had a good job and tithed and was mature in the Lord -- saved since 1974 -- so was sort of a leader and respected. One day Leigh announced we were going to have to guest speaks: Sam and Jane Whaley, and their ministry of deliverance! I had never heard of them, was not a "fan" of this "ministry" but showed up for the special service. As we all know now, Sam and Jane believe most/all Christians have demons and you have to SCREAM and VOMIT and DRY HEAVE and HOLLAR IN TONGUES to get the demons to come out. It was pretty wild as you can imagine. Of course, my spirit didn't bear witness so I sort of watched but it went on and on for several hours. (We were meeting at a hotel and making a LOT of noise as you can imagine!) "Everyone" seemed to love the Whaley's and ministry that went on -- they were invited back and even tho I expressed my concerns, Bobby and Leigh assured me it was the Lord. When the Whaley's returned, the crowd was doubled -- everyone likes a "show" (even if it's a horror movie!) -- and the same nonsense went on. I believe I left even earlier than before. Again, I was respect by the people and I didn't want to go against what the pastors belived and I spoke to Bobby and Leigh and said this was wrong but they thought it was great. I said I would not be in the service the next time the Whaley's appeared, which make a "statement." Bobby and Leigh freaked but wanted the Whaleys. So the Whaley's returned, as did the crowds, but not me. Clearly, something was wrong and I got some phone calls from concerned members. I met with Bobby and Leigh but now they were "against me" (but nice about it) and basically said either you're with us or against us and this is the way we're headed. The next few Sunday morning services, the focus was all about deliverance --- screaming, vomiting, etc -- even without the Whaleys. So I left, on good but sad terms. A couple years later, on the A CURRENT AFFAIR TV show, there was footage and a profile of the Whaleys and their abuse of people. Sad and creepy to see it. Bobby and Leigh divorced. Leigh married Bob Tilton (for a couple years) and divorced him. You can see her on TV info commericals selling an "instant face lift" or something. Tilton married again; no idea where Bobby is. What I learned is that I should ALWAYS trust God's Spirit in me -- He ALWAYS tells me the truth and if I am not at peace about a situation or environment, seek Him and the Word to get clarity. If there are leaders/others involved, go to them in meekness and say, "Hey, help me out here..." and if the peace does NOT appear in my heart, then I should go. In other words, ALWAYS FOLLOW PEACE! Yours in the Prince of Peace, Bachman | ||
| ex_wol New member Username: ex_wol Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.183.42.81 |
Hi Bachman, nice to meet you. Ok, I'm game! First of all, you need to know that the Whaley's have made their rounds. When I was in the cult of Water of Life, in Plano Texas, led by Doyle Davidson, The Whaley's were occasional "guest ministers" to whom Doyle turned the "stage" over. He would probably deny that today. Doyle has "selective memory syndrome"... when challenged with an event that he doesn't want to address, he conveniently has a sudden memory loss. Bachman- You are absolutely right- one should NEVER place their "faith" in a man or woman= ONLY GOD. I escaped the cult many years ago. Doyle denies having known Dena Schlosser, the woman (a very sick woman) who chopped off her 10 month old baby's arms in 2004. Doyle is also into the "God gave me a sceond wife" lie- to excuse his 17 year affair with a woman in the church that's younger than his own daughter. Doyle loves to tell people that they are "free from the Law of Moses"---- and even "casts the Law out of people"- as if the Law of Moses was a demon. The Law is not a demon. True, we are no longer under the curse of the Law; but the Law is NOT a demon. Paul said it was holy and just and good- and it was to POINT US TO JESUS CHRIST. It's ironic, how these false teachers change spouses like some of us change out clothes! Peace-  | ||
| bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 99 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.148.126 |
So ex-wol. tell is a personal experience you had if it its not too painful and whatever lesson you learned from it. I'm sure it will help others! Peace in Him, Bachman | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 194 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 61.68.109.161 |
Well that is extreme. I have seen demons cast out of people as I had them cast out of me, but it was totally unexpected and not planned. These are extreme events that sometimes (rarely) happen in church.Don't know if the people liked it, most of the church ran out in fear with my deliverance. I have had bad experiences when people tried to push me over in church, seems everyone who goes there gets pushed over and falls, but it is just a show and I don't buy into those type of shows, especially when they are a copy of the truth but not truth. I also had an experience when this lady preacher told me off because I got up to take a call (my phone was on silent, but I felt the vibrations and got up and took the phone outside), she told me (in front of everyone) that I was disrupting the move of the Spirit, I told her (in front of everyone) when I get up to walk out the Spirit goes with me (I was overtaken with the "I am" complex) and I told her she was rude and I wasn't impressed at the way she spoke to a sister who has the Lord in her, so it ended up a fight between her and I, so I haven't been back since. I hope this year God will lead me to a church which is on fire but not hyped, humble but not weak and filled with and true to God's Word. (Message edited by julia on January 14, 2007) (Message edited by julia on January 14, 2007) | ||
| bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.240.216 |
Julia, that is a HORRENDOUS story -- but funny in its own, sick way -- the woman calling you out when you went to answer the call. And the pushing people over. That is so common and so sad. I was at a conference last Oct with about 4000 people and that was the "show" (your words and so true!) they were waiting for -- almost impatient to get past the Word so they could get "pushed." When I got home, I studied the book of Acts and it was interesting. There really isn't much evidence of people "falling out" under the power of the Lord. And you NEVER see the apostles lining people up for this show. (I DO believe it happens and is of God--I just think we overdo it and people come to expect it.) Anyway, thank you for sharing all that -- I take some comfort that so many of us have experienced rough times at church...yet we continue on with Him! I pray He leads you to the church He wants you to be in so they will be blessed by your presence! Peace in Him, Bachman | ||
| newlife Intermediate Member Username: newlife Post Number: 158 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.72.98.85 |
As for myself i really don't have a bad church experience to tell. But i can tell you something that happened to my mother that was very embarrassing for her... This happened was when my brother was little, probably around 3 years old. They were in a Sunday morning church service when a man sitting in front of them passed gas. My brother being the observant and out spoken child that he was proceeded to alert my mother. "Momma, that man just pooted." My mother completely ignored this observation. So after about 5 seconds of no response. With alittle more volume my brother repeats "Momma, that man just pooted." So this time my mom sort of turns her head towards him and with a little uhmmmm looks back to the front of the church. Well, by this time some people are starting to notice and are snickering alittle. But not satisfied that my mom had understood what he was trying to tell her. With more verbosity, volume, and finger direction said..."MOMMA, DID YOU HEAR IT? THAT MAN, RIGHT THERE, JUST POOTED." So now the congregation is basically in an uproar. People are turning around in their seats looking, some are laughing, some trying not to laugh... I guess the lesson to be learned is not to ignore your small children when in church. What they have to say could really be important. | ||
| ex_wol New member Username: ex_wol Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.183.42.81 |
Hi Bachman and everyone: Yes, this was a very hurtful experience. I was in a very bad place in my life- married to a very cruel, unjust , abusive man. I clung ot this "ministry"- because I sincerely, but erroneously thought that GOD was at work there. I thought the things that happened there were really from GOD. But they were not. My children (who are adults now) want absolutely NOTHING to do, with churches, etc. I don't blame them. They still harbor resentment toward me, for forcing them to go to this "cult"- We have, as a family, talked about this. They say they have forgiven me- but I know that their experiences there have damaged their views on GOD and church. While in that cult, I , along with many family members- were damaged by this cult. It's not that it's too "painful"- but I could write a NOVEL about the sick, perverse things that went on there. Peace= | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 61.68.109.161 |
At another church the pastor was talking about excitement about people coming to the church (my friends), because of their tithes and profiles, then he spoke about how he wants to go wooohooo in his lounge room when he reads the Word and God speaks to him but he can't cause his wife will tell him to shut up, that was it, I saw greed and cowardice in one evening and I can't pay homage to that! I had a coffee with him and spoke about it but he replied that on both occasions he was joking, well I didn't get the joke, so I left there too.How am I supposed to lead people to Christ if my pastor thinks they are a big shot? It should be the other way around, then if I brought my old criminal associates they would probably get scared, so I find it hard, (I have a wide and varied selection of aquaintances and friends), from many varied walks of life. While I am having a gripe about this I may as well throw in how annoyed I get when people talk "You or I am the head and not the tail, I lend I don't borrow" rah rah rah So are we making a monster here? We are in the new testament and the greatest is the servant of us all, the first will be last and we must become like children. This doesn't get spoken about much. Instead is "you are the head and not the tail" Geee how many heads are we gonna have? How many people puffed up on the mountain because they are the great "I am"? The devil is cunning and baffling and he tricks people even on the premise of being scriptural. He tried with Jesus, he will try with us too, no servant is greater than his master and as they hated Jesus they will hate us. This doesn't get taught much because people's ears twitch to hear what they want to hear and justify their wicked deeds. (Message edited by julia on January 15, 2007) | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 196 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 61.68.109.161 |
I have also heard it be taught that the donkey Jesus rode was the equivalent to a modern day jaguar (this particular preacher likes jaguars).And everyone just listens and nods their heads like dumb mules. I have brought famous, rich people to church and I have brought hopeless poor people to church, and the rich and famous get attention whilst the poor people, they can't wait to get em off their cushioned, velvet seats. So..... yeah, I have had some bad experinces in churches. | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 197 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 61.68.109.161 |
The church I left last was hardest for me, I love singing with this guy and we had some great times of prayer, the whole of heaven would come to our prayer sessions, we're even gonna preach at the superdome (large football stadium) together, he's got to admit he was wrong, not just that it was a joke and for me to get over it, I still pray for him, but he can't be my pastor, I am equal to him, so how can he be my pastor, sometimes I feel like his pastor. It is sad, still, gotta stick to my guns. (Message edited by julia on January 15, 2007) | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.84.184.197 |
I'd really like to keep this to PERSONAL experiences we've had and not direct it at rants against various pastors or doctrines. In other words, please try to keep it "I had this experience" and not "I hate when preachers do this or that." There are plenty of other postings for that. That being said, it's interesting how things that we don't want to talk about or want to brush under the carpet -- from farting in church (!) to pastors "joking" from the pulpit and saying wrong and hurtful things and yet not listening to a wise sheep (julia) who confronts them. Imagine if julia's pastor had "received" from her and corrected or apologized his ways/statements? Reminds me of Adam -- one man's sin lead us so far away from God, while one Man's obedience (Jesus) brough us all the way back to fellowship! If we walk in the light and expose or question what's on our hearts (like we're SUPPOSED TO!) then we can walk together. I'm glad I'm a sheep and it reminds me to pray (a LOT) for my pastor! | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 626 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Worst church experience - Trying to wade through everything on Factnet (including my own garbage) and see Christ's Church. --------------------------------------------- On a more upbeat note - I, however, loved Newlife's story. | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.240.94.185 |
Julia, You might end up where I have been, without a church. So many others are too now because of all the totally unscriptural stuff going on in so many churches. I read something yesterday addressing this. It also said that whatever we do to stay in fellowship with other true believers and, if necessary, start your own group for fellowship, prayer together, Bible reading, worship and even communion. Jesus said where there are 2 or 3 gathered together in his name he is there. It is so important that we not stand alone. Unfortunately that's where many of us have found ourselves after not being able to find an already established Biblical church. Like you, I have looked a long time. Since I was born again in a charismatic church and wanted to have that fulness of worship, etc, I kept looking for a charismatic church home. But most charismatic churches now are polluted with more garbage than ever before. God bless you. Don't give up. | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.142.106 |
Hey Anony, please share one (or more) of your "worst experiences" and what you learned from it/them. Thanks! Bachman | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.65.183.8 |
I wrote my worst experience but somehow it didn't get posted. I'll do it again when I have more time than now. | ||
| inkorrekt Advanced Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 71.33.134.217 |
I was avery active member of one of the fastest growing churches in the USA. I was a Stephen Minister.I knew that my leader was looking for some investors and I had been working with one of them. In order to help her, I introduced her to them. They were impressed and they invested tons of money. She never even thanked me leave alone the finder's fee. Few months later, she asked me why I got once in a life time opportunity and I would not pursue. In fact the investors whnted me to accept their offer which was not in my interests as an inventor. So, I stayed at distance. When she asked me why, I told her that it was between her and me and is confidential. I told her that I did not trust them. I told her not to tell them. Next day, they called me and they were too busy and they could not help me. She broke my trust and told them what I did not want them to know. She would not answer my calls. I was broke. I asked her to send me some money. She never replied. I went to the church and explained to them what she did to me. They told me that I should never talk about her. I asked them why??? No answer. I was frustrated. I asked the church: After I told them what she did to me, I was told not to talk about her. I became furious. I asked them if there was a difference between them and an Abortionist. How? Abortionist keeps killing babies. But, he does not want others to talk about him.The Church did the same to me. After this, I could not attend this church anymore. She caused severe loss and damage to me. I could not attend any church for several years. REcently, i heard avery very sad story about her. This should never happen to anyone. This is a tragedy. She and her husband have been married previously. One of their teen age sons killed the other one and he is in jail for life.They lost both their sons. Why this tragedy? I do not know. | ||
| cybermom Advanced Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 675 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
The Bible says you'll reap what you sow. The tragedy they've reaped is a result of what's really in their hearts. Most of the painful experiences I've had in the last 10 yrs. have been at the hands of "church folks". Christians aren't really that much different from the world when it comes to justifying sin. The only difference is that they should know better. | ||
| oneway New member Username: oneway Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 72.16.59.189 |
Years ago when I lived in Dallas,Tx, I joined a non denominational church 'Church On The Rock' pastored by Larry Lea. The church really seemed Spirit filled. It was not uncommon for someone to stand up and start prophesying about something. The whole church would lend their listening ear until they were finished, then the churh would just go back to what it was doing prior to the prophesying. On one particular Sunday, a man stood up and starting prophesying. Right away the elders in the church or whoever it was, decided they didn't want to listen to this. They went over to this man and forceably removed him from the church, And he was prophesying all the way out the door. They actually locked him out of the church. I don't recall his very words when he started prophesying, but it had something to do with Jimmy Swaggart. Well what do you know? A couple of months later, poor ole' Jimmy Swaggart got caught with a prostitute or something similar to that. At the time, I had no idea if this prophesy was from God or if this man just knew something about Jimmy Swaggart. But whatever the case, this prophesy if it was prophesy, came true. | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 218 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 218.214.131.90 |
I just got invited to a "ladies"group,hmmmmm, "lady", can't cop that word, it reminds me of some done up mutton putting on airs and graces and demanding stuff, besides Jesus never called His mother "lady" so, I may tell them I will join if they don't call me lady and let me wear my army boots.  | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 111 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.223.114 |
Oneway, LOL "And he was prophesying all the way out the door." Here's your hat, what's your hurry?! And Lady Julia, show up in your walkin' army boots and see what they say! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2622 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
bachman, the church that I attended while growing up had all these nutty teachers passing thru it's doors. One man(wish I could remember his name) I can recall- had a special gift. He could point at people and make them start to laugh and they would fall on the floor laughing and carrying on...What a crazy super power to have.. I was just a teen girl and he began pointing at me( I was in the front row)..I laughed because I thought it was really wierd and because I felt pressure..everyone else was doing it..you know like when they dance in the spirit and your the only one standing still makes you feel awkward.. Oh the things people contrive..R | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 115 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.216.156 |
rachelengland, I encountered the same thing while in Romania over the summer. A visiting evangelist brought along a fellow and the "fellow" would "laugh in the spirit" and it happened each night--the evangelist would preach (a good, solid message) and then he'd go over to this fellow who would start to giggle and shriek with laughter, eventually falling on the floor -- others followed. I just didn't "get it" -- like the dancing thing. I just don't see "laughing in the Lord" anywhere in the bible. (In this fashion, any way.) This were all sincere believers and I guess I didn't like who "predictable" it was -- the laughing at the end of each service. The joke was on me, I guess -- and I just didn't get it! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2624 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
WOW- I never knew anyone else had come across this type of thing!!! I didn't get it either but I sure remember feeling self-conscious when he pointed at me..it's like when Bob Larson used to come to the highschool auditoriums- I just prayed to God he wouldn't come over and embarass me in front of everyone and say "I know you have been listening to Hall&Oats I'm gonna cast that demon out of you-he scared me!!!! Bachman...I enjoy the threads you have started here! | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 766 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.159.231 |
Rachel, Was it Tim Storey? | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.227.105 |
Rachelengland, you listened to Hall and Oats??? I can top that -- I listened to Elton John, John Denver, Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles. Heard that "rock was of the devil" so while away in college, asked my parents to throw out ALL my records. (I didn't have the guts!) And I had 100s...! That was back in the late 70s. Of course, I bought everything back on CD (rightly or wrongly!) but still listen to Christian music 80% of the time. But it IS funny/sad how "peer pressure" can make us do things that maybe Jesus isn't really behind. Not that I'm endoring mainstream music, but I know He is usually looking a "little deeper" into my heart. If it was only as easy as throwing out music or books! I have Hall and Oats greatest hits on CD if you want to borrow it! LOL! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2625 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Bear, it has been awhile since I visited the old church probably 15 or more years!!! I could not tell you his name... Bachman I was a christian music kid subscribed to CCM and everything in the 80's...but I was tempted by MTV which was a pretty big sin back then. I did the same thing with the records I threw away my brothers vintage Monkees record, boy was he mad-I broke it in pieces!!...Funny how we can let popular belief influence us...Sure some music is horrible but the Monkees..what was I thinking!!! Thanks for the laugh... (Message edited by rachelengland on February 06, 2007) | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 845 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
rachel, You threw away your brother's "Monkeys" records!! You are fortunate to still be alive! There is no such thing as "scriptural" music as far as rhythm and beat goes. It is the what is in the heart that counts. Of course you probably realize that now. | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2628 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
This was a fad the church went through, throwing out all secular music because of it's backwards masking and demonic undertones-I don't know if people do it anymore... I agree Ba about the music, I love all kinds of music from Bach to Bowie- it makes my world go around...R | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 846 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Hi rachel, Unfortunately, many churches still think music with guitars or percussion is ungodly, some actually say satanic. But most all use a piano which is based on a harp but where the strings are struck, making it a percussion. And a guitar is really a harp with a sound box to amplify the strumming of the strings. No, there is nothing ungodly about a guitar. And there is nothing ungodly about a rock beat, rhythm is not identified in scripture. I too love all kinds of music, and I actually do have preferences both at home and in church, but I know these are my preferences and I am not to judge what someone else prefers. Bach is great and so is Bowie, and I liked the Monkeys too! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2629 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
ba2, to me that would be a terrible church experience, not to have music. I understand we all have different styles but to call an instrument satanic-that has always puzzled me... | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.84.184.68 |
I remember when Resurrection Band's first LP came out--the first "real" rock record for believers -- and I wanted them to play at the spirit filled Baptist church I attened while in college. I lent the record to a good friend who was an elder -- he must have been in his 30s/early 40s. An "adult." He called the music "devilish!" And he wasn't kidding. But he also admitted it wasn't his taste -- he really wasn't a music fan at all. I do have a picture of him holding up my Rez Band t-shirt and grinning! A couple years ago, I started buying the "new" Jesus Music -- it sounds exactly like the world's music (production, quality) while the Jesus Music I grew up with in the 70s didn't have the money behind it to sound so good. But much of the new stuff doesn't say much about Jesus -- it's pretty LOUD and you can't understand all the words, but it's more about "God can help you if you're lonely" and so forth. But I would never knock it -- and of course, mostly only christian kids listen to it -- and I just got a new Hillsong Live JESUS IS CD with DVD -- and it looks and sounds like a rock concert. Again, I think the Holy Spirit is more concerned with our heart than our iPod. If the heart's right, the iPod will be right. And ba2, the Monkees is spelled MONKEES! I liked the Archies,too -- SUGAR, SUGAR outsold the Rolling Stones the year it came out -- there IS a God! : ) | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 847 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Monkees, of course. I had a spell checker on and didn't pay close attention. Archies,too -- SUGAR, SUGAR "You are my candy girl And you've got me wanting you" (that wasn't meant for you bachman) Seriously though, how does anyone come to the conclusion that any particular rhythm is satanic? | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2631 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
ba2 many of them came to the "satanic" conclusion because of the beats being used in many of the songs were similar to those being used in african ritual dances and so forth, nonsense really.. You boys know those songs pretty well..must be entering the middle ages  Bachman...Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music..remember who sang that? | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 848 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
so, how do they know those beats were not the same in biblical times. Maybe David was doing his songs in rap! I know what's right, I know what's wrong and I don't confuse it Why should the devil have all the good music? I absolutly didn't know that one from the 70's,I had to look it up, lyrics are pretty good but I'm not sure about the sound. I think I have a couple of years on you guys. | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2634 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
"so, how do they know those beats were not the same in biblical times. Maybe David was doing his songs in rap"! People make things up Ba-they get on a tangent and run with it and then more join and before you know it-it's a fad..Goofy..I'm sure God enjoys a good beat-even African ones, but anything unfamiliar to us in the west, gets scrutinized! | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.84.184.68 |
rachelengland, Larry Norman! (I go Waaay back -- saved in CA in 1974 during the Jesus Movement so don't even try to stump me on Jesus Music!) Actually, Disco and Polka music are considered Satanic. Everyone knows that... | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 4907 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.53.135.172 |
All music comes from God! The creator. satan is the destroyer. Unable to create anything. It's only the lyrics of a song that makes it either of God or satanic. Any good respectful love song is of God! Like Songs of Solomon. Chapter 7! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2636 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Very true franklin, lyrics can make it or break it..words are a powerful tool..I chose not to listen to something that is violent or unbecoming..but a sad love song hits the spot sometimes... Oh bachman, I had a feeling I couldn't stump you! | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 767 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.159.231 |
About the Song of Solomon: 1. Very graphic 2. Jewish men were not aloud to read it until they were 30 3. Is not meant as an allegory of how Christ loves the church (this can be used, but only after one understands the original meaning) Franklin, you are correct in your post above. If the Chrsitians who oppose any secular love songs only understood the intese sexual language of the text, which is not easily understood unless you know about poetic literature in antiquaited East, they would pass out from shock!  | ||
| cybermom Advanced Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 718 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
bachman I had all sorts of Beatles stuff, hundreds of Beatles cards and all the albums. After getting saved I broke all the albums and threw away all the stuff. I did it because I thought the Lord was telling me to, so I don't regret that but do wonder how much I'd have made on ebay if I'd kept it LOL. Not exactly a bad church experience, but our "pastor" was encouraging us not to hold on to things from our past. Then 20 yrs. later he writes a song that sounded so much like the Beach Boys (his favorite BC group) that he should have been sued. Ah, hindsight is wonderful, isn't it? OK, bachman - what was the group that Steve and Annie Chapman were in - and no fair googling or going thru your stuff! Here's another one: what is Honeytree's real name? CM (Message edited by Cybermom on February 06, 2007) | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.236.176 |
Easy, Cybermom -- DOGWOOD! Although I have a few Honeytree CDs, I don't know her real name, so you "win!" So, Cybermom -- remember Parable? The lead singer, Chuck Butler? His son now heads which huge Christian band that has for several years crossed over into the mainstream market in big ways????! | ||
| cybermom Advanced Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 719 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
I love Dogwood. Honeytree's name is Nancy Hegenbaum (unless she's married - it's her maiden name). Don't have cd's just her vinyl. I don't remember Parable or Chuck Butler - so round 2 goes to you! But which 2 brothers were in the band Mason Profit, got saved and each began their own solo careers as Christian musicians? Wow, are we that old??? LOL CM | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.242.147 |
Terry Talbot and John Michael Talbot were with Mason Profit, Cybermom. I'm only 47....! SWITCHFOOT is the band Chuck Butler's son is in. Next question, please! | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2639 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Bachman when I'm board I often google some of these older singers just see what they are up to..I remember getting Honeytree's(her last name is Miller now) Maranatha Marathon for my 8th or 9th birthday she was right up there with Amy Grant and the Never alone album... I recall a gentleman back in the late 70's early 80's(I'm in my 30's) he was heavy set and had a program called the Ross Bagley show. Do you remember that- he would showcase christian artists such as..Don Fransisco, Dallas Holm..Evie, John Micheal Talbot. Christian music has so much history doesn't it and it never misses a beat they seem to this day be able to keep up with times and crossover is bigger than ever... Hey Bachman whose daughter now sings with Zoe Girl? | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2641 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Bear said, "Franklin, you are correct in your post above. If the Chrsitians who oppose any secular love songs only understood the intese sexual language of the text, which is not easily understood unless you know about poetic literature in antiquaited East, they would pass out from shock"! Bear and franklin..I liked that reference and I am glad you were the ones to bring it up and that the two of you could agree on something is even more endearing!! | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 850 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
Except for many songs today because of the likes of MTV, music and lyrics have always been very personal to the one doing the listening. What I get out of a love song I heard in my youth would be very different from someone else. Drug inferences or sexual connotations may very well have been the intent of the author, but it may not be what the listener gets from it. Was “Puff the Magic Dragon” a drug message or a kids song? Was “Unchained Melody” probably one of my favorite songs of all time, about sex or a loving relationship? Music and what you get out of it comes from the heart. If your heart is pure, you will usually get a pure message. | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2643 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
Unchained melody..I had to look that up..the righteous brothers..very beautiful lyrics only a prude would find that unbecoming But I do see what you mean about lyrics being personal- they are about a time and a place and a state of mind...just as one could view the Biblical scriptures as such. R (Message edited by rachelengland on February 07, 2007) | ||
| ba2 Advanced Member Username: ba2 Post Number: 851 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 165.189.17.206 |
You got it, the personal time and place and state of mind are critical. What MTV did is define every song with the picture you see over and over again while the song plays. In a way, I think it may have ruined the personal aspect of music. But then again, that might be my generational aspect of how we view things. Quite honestly, my teen son plays a much better quality music than I did when I was his age. But, I wonder how personal it is for him?? By the way, you have to listen to the music of “Unchained Melody” along with the words to get the full effect, at least that is true for me. | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 125 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.240.155 |
rachelengland, the "rock and roll preacher" Chuck Girard of Love Song fame -- his daughter is in Zoe Girl. Also, I consider myself "lucky" in that I was saved at the age of 14 and never got into drugs, sex, crime etc -- so all the music of that era that I love so much doesn't remind me of bad times. So I still enjoy Elton, Fleetwood, the Eagles, Bad Company, Heart, Foreigner, etc and even chuckle at the songs that may be "dirty" because compared to the stuff today! : o | ||
| rachelengland Senior Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 2645 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 216.109.192.236 |
darn-it bachman...I do not listen to christian music much anymore..but I had that little tidbit of knowledge... You are right Ba2, "video killed the radio star" and putting a video to music can sometimes change the light into which you saw it in your mind...R | ||
| cybermom Advanced Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 723 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
bachman Man, you're good. And not that old, either. Actually I'm older than you, but I'm not telling by how much LOL. I'm not that familiar with a lot of the newer stuff out there, but as said before, some of it is really good and some others are "ear candy". But that's the way it's always been. I like lyrics that have substance, are worshipful, or have a great (if not satirical) message - my all-time favorite for the last category is Steve Taylor. Second runner up is Charlie Peacock. A good tune helps, but is not always necessary for me to enjoy a song. | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 126 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.240.155 |
Cybermom, did you or Rachengland want some of "our old music" on CD? If you like Steve Taylor, you know Chagall Guevara! Anyway, you both keep mentioning "vinyl" -- whatever THAT is! But I have everything on CD so if you want some DOGWOOD, HONEYTREE, PEACOCK, TALBOTS, etc, just e-mail me. No cost -- I love keeping the music alive! jcsnyc@hotmail.com |
