| Author |
Message |
    
maryg
New member
Username: maryg
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.191.18.68
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2007 - 3:12 pm: | 
|
The book and message, 'Be Ye Perfect' by Mary Banks expresses the true heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is no strange doctrine but a message that will transform the church into the Perfect Bride that Jesus is coming soon to take unto Himself. This book and message is pure scripture through and through. May Banks has a deep revelation and is a Bible Teacher that truly knows how to 'rightly divide the Word'. The Word of God is the ultimate authority that can and will settle all controversies. Open your heart to receive truth that may in fact shatter your present belief system. St. John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water..... |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 258
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.155
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 7:28 pm: |
|
If I am not mistaken, from what I saw on Mary's website and elsewhere, she is involved in the hugely heretical Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God/New Apostles and Prophets movement.
It is on record as wanting to shatter Christianity's traditional belief system. It won't, they will only manage to deceive themselves and others who have no love for the truth.
Where Mary stands in all of this, I don't know and would not bother to find out considering her lack of discernment in affiliating herself with this false movement, if indeed she has.
There are other things I question about her but not worth going into at this point.
I will say this: when I visited her site I was welcomed on the first page of it by a full screen picture of HER FACE. This is radical self-promotion imo. And it reflects to me the vanity of the false sense of self-importance the New (FALSE)Prophets and Apostles promote.
It is God who is to be promoted and glorified in our service to him, not us for pete's sake. |
bachman
Intermediate Member
Username: bachman
Post Number: 103
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 162.83.247.70
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
|
I read Mary's statement of faith and while it sounded pretty sound to me -- but too "wordy" -- I really don't understand what this means:
--
We believe that God’s purpose in the earth realm is to establish His will, to show forth His glory and manifold wisdom to principalities and powers in high places and to bring forth, through Faith (which is the operation of the Holy Spirit), many sons unto glory.
----
I also couldn't find any confirmation that she had received any Martin Luther King Award in 1996. Her name doesn't appear when I searched The National Association of Negro Business and Professional Women’s Club. (NEGRO???)
My other concern is that her "disclaimer" reads:
-----
Thus it is her desire to make it known that the revelations that have brought many who attend her churches and ministerial training schools throughout America and abroad to that place of spiritual perfection, did not come as a result of her being formally educated, but by a face to face visitation from our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
--
A FACE TO FACE VISITATION FROM THE LORD, HUH?
The few things I've posted above are enough to give me pause and so I will pass on whatever "revelations" she has. Not that she's off the wall but as we all know, ANYONE can put up a website and call themselves a prophet, etc. so I'll nod at her, smile, but keep walkin.
(NEGRO? In this day and age?!) |
cybermom
Advanced Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 670
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:06 pm: |
|
Amen, Bachman. I agree with you and anony. Why no articles or sermons to read?? Why must we pay money to see what this woman is preaching? |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 265
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.155
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:07 pm: |
|
It's hard to understand anything she says.
I wouldn't have thought to research her claimed commendations, Bachman. interesting what you didnt find. Maybe maryg can help us out. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 266
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.155
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:23 pm: |
|
http://www.marybanksfaithlibrary.com/about.html
Here's the info about her MLK award and association with the other organization.
A little more info about her. Apparently she is not happy with the prosperity message (as has been said here), which I can well understand. But her association with the heretical new apostles and prohets movement is none the better, in fact is downright scary. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 267
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.155
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:54 pm: |
|
I didn't notice that the above is a link to mary banks site.
She is definitely involved in the heretical Manifested Sons of God/New Apostles and Prophets movement.
http://www.msog.net/TheM.S.O.GCrew.htm
No wonder she doesn't make sense. This movement is bizarre. She is right at home on TBN. |
bachman
Intermediate Member
Username: bachman
Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 162.83.154.35
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:49 am: |
|
I actually found myself praying for Mary Banks last night and this morning -- one thing I sensed the Holy Spirit impress on me is that the gospel is SIMPLE.
It's SIMPLE. It's for EVERYONE and ANYONE to understand. We're all intelligent people, much "smarter" than the fishermen and the women that Jesus called. So when people post "revelations" that I don't understand -- with my heart or my mind OR my Spirit! -- then I think it's a good time to raise a caution flag.
Anyway, that was my impression -- THE GOSPEL IS SIMPLE! Anony, as you wisely wrote, "It's hard to understand anything she says." |
bachman
Intermediate Member
Username: bachman
Post Number: 106
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 162.83.154.35
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 5:52 am: |
|
I actually found myself praying for Mary Banks last night and this morning -- one thing I sensed the Holy Spirit impress on me is that the gospel is SIMPLE.
It's SIMPLE. It's for EVERYONE and ANYONE to understand. We're all intelligent people, much "smarter" than the fishermen and the women that Jesus called. So when people post "revelations" that I don't understand -- with my heart or my mind OR my Spirit! -- then I think it's a good time to raise a caution flag.
Anyway, that was my impression -- THE GOSPEL IS SIMPLE! Anony, as you wisely wrote, "It's hard to understand anything she says." |
getagrip
Advanced Member
Username: getagrip
Post Number: 559
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 72.77.188.86
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 8:41 am: |
|
bach
email me at aabearlaw@yahoo.com, some really interesting Copeland news to share with you that occurred last week. You will ENJOY... |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 272
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.155
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 9:50 am: |
|
So true, Bachman. the gospel is simple and God has given us everything we need by his Spirit and written revelation of scripture.
Mary has been through the 'school of prophets' so she is thoroughly saturated with this MSOG stuff. It is all about personal encounters with 'Jesus' and/or personal new revelations of some sort. Since God has already given us his revelation of himself in scripture and Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophecy, the source of these new prophets' and apostles' new revelations cannot be God. That leaves the demonic realm.
MSOG is gives these people a grossly exaggerated sense of self-importance. So like satan. There is so much of this in the church today.
A person of God is not validated by new revelations and so-called personal encounters with jesus. They are validated only by their adherence to the already revealed word of God to man. |
cybermom
Advanced Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 671
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:49 pm: |
|
anony
Clicked on the msog link, and after skimming, clinked on the "link" button and what do you know...it went to the mary banks website. Surprise, surprise. I'm still going to look for the free audios - I guess I'm compulsive; I need to hear for myself and the decide what's going on. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 275
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.245
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:35 am: |
|
Here's some links to info about this mess, Cybermmom. But there's a lot more information out there that you might want to check out as well.
Also check out 'Joel's Army' - it is another part of this satanic scheme.
These people are false prophets and apostles, purveyors of doctrines of devils, as anyone with eyes to see can see from scripture.
If anyone on this board is involved with them, they need to get out. Do your own research to find out the truth of this movement. Otherwise you are being led by deceived and blind guides. Not to mention satan's purpose through them is to destroy the church. They say they are restoring/reforming'advancing it which must be done under their authority. Sorry but Jesus never intended his church to be under any authority but his alone, and certainly not under the authority of a bunch of pompous, deceived men and women. We have been given the Holy Spirit of Truth and God's already complete record of his truth and will for us to lead and guide and teach us in all things until the Lord returns. The church was perfectly established by the Lord and his Apostles and that's how it was and is to remain. Any who would refute this are liars and of their father, the father of lies.
(Message edited by anony on January 23, 2007) |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 276
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.81.245
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:44 am: |
|
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue66.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/discernment/change.htm
http://www.intotruth.org/res/theglory6.html |
bachman
Intermediate Member
Username: bachman
Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 162.84.145.77
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
|
Hi anony--
Thanks for the links. There is a LOT to read (!) and some of it is outdated (2001) and some of it is vague and borders on hysteria, some I don't agree with, but I appreciated the chance to read it.
I always realize that most/much of that teaching is among the leaders of that group and others who are "off" -- sincerely deceived people, but they tend to be the leaders and if you ask their "sheep" to explain what the leaders are talking about, the sheep are, "Huh?"
I've sensed while I'm at church that many sheep (us!) don't really read or study the Word much, so much of what the leaders say we don't really understand. It might be wrong or off teaching -- Mary Banks, etc -- but if you were to ask the typical sheep what he or she believed, the response would probably be "basic Christianty 101." The deeper points of the deception are probably "too deep" for them to focus on; for the leaders,it's their PRIDE to know "the deeper things." As if they will know we are Christians by our LOVE isn't deep enough...!
I'm not taking lightly what is/was taught, but my experience (30+ with the Lord) is that these groups and movements come and go -- the True Church -- and I mean the "true Church!" -- continues on, vibrant and alive, a Bride preparing herself for her Husband.
I survived a LOT in 30+ years by following Peace (the Holy Spirit's witness) and keeping my eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of my faith!
Jesus continues to roll His eyes at our beahvior, I'm sure, but He IS preparing His bride!
Peace in Him,
Bachman |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 211
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 5:32 am: |
|
" Since God has already given us his revelation of himself in scripture and Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophecy, the source of these new prophets' and apostles' new revelations cannot be God. That leaves the demonic realm."
The bible says that when you believe living water will flow from your belly John 4:14 (the revelation of Jesus), has this happened to you? Or are you worshiping a book of words without having the living experience? This can be seen as idolatry, if that is the case.
The bible also says He gave some to be apostles, prophets and teachers, so why do people of the book argue this when it is written plainly?
The bible also says John 14:26 "But the Counsellor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you; as His anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in Him."
The Living Word of God brings to light old truths but also brings new ones Matthew 13:52 from the treasure house of God. But we don't receive them, or we question the authority.We all see from a different perspective and if you know Jesus you will understand His Living Spirit is always teaching us new things and lining up the teaching with the old.
I don't know the above woman, but you haven't said why she is wrong, or heretical, saying she has a demonic spirit is a bit like unbelievers said about Jesus Himself.
(Message edited by julia on January 26, 2007) |
hardbones
New member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.93.30.51
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:13 am: |
|
I agree with you there julia. I'd like to know from some of you above why you used the word heretical in relation to some of these people.
To use the words deceived or misled or off balance etc may or may not apply I don't know but heretical?
Heretical means you have exceeded the bounds of orthodoxy and as a result are outside the christian church. To say someone is heretical because they claim to be a prophet or apostle
is really ludicrous. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 278
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.70.38
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 12:28 pm: |
|
God's Spirit teaches from His already revealed word - not new things. The body of the doctrines of the faith is closed. The 'New Apostles and Prophets' movement claims differently and whatever they profess contrary to God's word is heretical. They constantly make prophecies that don't come to pass. There are no apostles with authority that exceeds that of the Lod's personally appointed Apostles to establish and teach the church. Scripture clearly says they and the Lord alone are the foundation and cornerstone of the church.
Claiming a personal vision and revelation from Jesus Christ does not automatically grant one special authority over the church. Speaking unintelligibly of so-called spiritual things is confusion and not of God.
Making the first page of your website a full face image of yourself which reflects your preoccupation with your own self importance is not of God. It smacks of the sin of idolatry.
Red flags go up all over the place regarding this movement. No thanks. I am all for anything God tells me from his Word. I love it. I hunger for it and 'eat' it as David said. I am NOT going to listen to confusion from self-important wannabe elitists in the church.
(Message edited by anony on January 26, 2007)
(Message edited by anony on January 26, 2007) |
hardbones
New member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.95.25.162
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 2:52 pm: |
|
Quote
The 'New Apostles and Prophets' movement claims differently and whatever they profess contrary to God's word is heretical
That is nonsense. So anyone I or you disagree with is heretical. Church history is filled with egs of people who taught (or prophesied) all kinds of funny things but they were right on the basics. To exceed the bounds of orthodoxy makes you a heretic. Not because half (or more) of your prophesies don't come to pass. I have a lot of disagreement with some of this prophetic but Im not going to take their salvation away from them and that's what you are doing
I repeat to claim apostolic authority for your (failed) prophesy does not make you a heretic. exceeding the bounds of orthodoxy does. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 280
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 6:50 pm: |
|
Hardbones -
You've got to be kidding... This movement is based on a stack of lies 50 ft deep. Better yet, scripture calls them doctrines of devils. You need to sit back and carefully read the information at the links I gave here. Then if you still want to embrace this heretical detestable garbage, your choice.
The truth is these leaders have outright rejected the love of the truth and have set out to destroy Christianity. They need more than good luck however.. I'm afraid it is they who are on the losing end of the stick. But they have chosen it for themselves. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 212
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 7:21 pm: |
|
God's Spirit teaches from His already revealed word - not new things. The body of the doctrines of the faith is closed. The 'New Apostles and "Prophets' movement claims differently and whatever they profess contrary to God's word is heretical. They constantly make prophecies that don't come to pass. There are no apostles with authority that exceeds that of the Lod's personally appointed Apostles to establish and teach the church. Scripture clearly says they and the Lord alone are the foundation and cornerstone of the church."
Which? The twelve that were initially chosen or the one's He has chosen since then? If you deny there are still apostles being raised up you are contrary to God's Word therefore you are heretical.
The Living Word of God brings to light old truths but also brings new ones Matthew 13:52 from the treasure house of God. But we don't receive them, or we question the authority.We all see from a different perspective and if you know Jesus you will understand His Living Spirit is always teaching us new things and lining up the teaching with the old.
The body of the doctrine of faith continues to remain open for us, praise God! Because He still touches us, He still sends us to preach, teach and baptize.
Isaiah 50:2 ..."Is my hand shortened, that it can not redeem? Or I have no power to deliver?" Says the Lord. Isaiah 66:14 "You shall see, and your heart shall rejoice; your bones shall flourish like the grass; and it shall be known that the Hand of the Lord is with His servants." 53:1 "who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the Arm of the Lord been revealed?"
The hand of the Lord is still touching men and women, He is still operating today and He is not dead. He is alive! He did not stop talking after the first twelve apostles, He still talks today, He has been talking to me just today. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 281
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 7:43 pm: |
|
No, according to the the Lord's hand picked Apostles, the body of doctrine for the faith was delivered to the church and closed by them. The end.
Sounds like you need to stop listening to these purveyors of lies against the truth of God's word and get into his word of scripture. STUDY it and compare it to what you are being told by these false apostles and prophets.
Go to the other thread about Mary Banks and read the articles at the links I provided and you will LEARN the vast differences in what God's Word says and what these self-appointed, self-important purveyors of heresies are pumping into you.
When God speaks to us he tells us nothing that contradicts what he already said for 4000 years, you can bet on that. He does not speak with forked tongue.
This movement is full of imaginary vicious doctrines of devils that do flat out contradict God's Word. But you're not going to know that unless you carefully investigate it for yourself. I hope you will and save yourself from this false movement from hell imo. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 213
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 8:58 pm: |
|
"No, according to the the Lord's hand picked Apostles, the body of doctrine for the faith was delivered to the church and closed by them. The end."
Sounds like there is no hope for us in your books! So that is your opinion, you obviously don't believe in the power of God, therefore you are erring. And it is not according to the Lord, the end has come according to your interpretation, I do not share your view. I believe in the Living Presence and Power of God working in His people even today.
I am not going to investigate anything to go out of my way to disprove something, God knows there is already many people doing that!
Seeing you brought this subject up, please tell, what in particular about sister Mary's teachings do you disagree with?
Please don't just post whole articles without pointing out what it is that doesn't sit right. |
no_no
Junior Member
Username: no_no
Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 72.130.100.144
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:35 pm: |
|
I agree that Mary Banks, who once was a sound minister in many ways, has now gone into something that is not Biblical and something that is a false doctrine.
She is problematic and discussed as being off, by other very trustworthy ministries and watchdog organizations. There isn't a new Bible and it is one thing to have words of knowledge or discernment mentioned in the New Testament, its another truly dark thing to come up with a sinlessness doctrine and something she calls the other revelation or something like that language.
Ministers do go off and ministers do have secrets and new age spirituality. No revelation, from the Holy Spirit will contradict the scripture. She would not receive new revelation that isn't founded from the established Word of God as it stands.
Test the spirits.
|
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 214
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 2:15 am: |
|
Okay anony, so these three articles you posted have an opinion about apostles and prophets in the end days,not my opinion and in my opinion those articles you posted are just some Joe Blow in the street or in the office, whose opinion does not matter to me as I listen to what the bible says.
This woman may of strayed, but in what way, if you be specific we can have an intelligent debate or convo, if you just blanket the comment then it is not intelligable and so no discussion can be had about it, BTW I hope you have emailed her about it, not just back stabbing her. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 215
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 2:24 am: |
|
No-no, I am familiar with the sinless doctrine and actually I find much backup in the bible for it. I have argued against it as well because of the duality of our human nature, i.e. Spirit and flesh. and it's propensity to lead one to pride, however if one is able to walk humbly in Christ, then His nature becomes ours and through His blood we too can be sinless.
I think it really has to do with being in God's will and that is the key to it. Thing is there are not many who understand God's perfect will and some even mistake their own will for Gods and use His words for their gain and that is the work of the devil.
William Booth wrote some fantastic books on Holiness, his work still stands as he was the founder of the "Salvation Army". He however knew how to walk humbly as a servant and to fight as a soldier of the Cross. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 282
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 9:15 am: |
|
Julia,
It doesn't matter who these people are - it is a matter of whether their teaching is soundly based on scripture. God was known to use an •••(donkey) to speak for him.
The Lord spent 3 years teaching His Apostles so that they could establish the church in the doctrines of the faith...for all time. The foundation of the church is the Lord Jesus Christ himself and those Apostles' testimonial teaching regarding him.
Any other teacher -ever- who rejects these teachings is a false teacher which Jesus and His Apostles warned us would come into the church to deceive even true believers if at all possible. Jesus said, Behold, I am warning you ahead of time. The Apostles continued these warnings and made it clear that false teachers are an ever present danger to the church. Jesus also said many would say to him at the judgement, Lord, Lord, Didn't we do (many wonderful things) in your name? And he will say to them, I never knew you! Depart from me, you workers of iniquity.
It is one thing for a sincere Christian to not yet understand something properly and mis-teach it. It is quite another thing for people to understand scripture well enough to twist it to try to make it say something it doesn't say. These are people who who have seen the truth and rejected it not having a love for it, and God says of them that he himself will choose their delusion so that they would then believe a lie.
So how do you know whether you are listening to true teachers or ones whom God has deluded and are teaching lies they have come to believe themselves? The only way is for YOU to know the Lord's and his His Apostles' teachings.
Never did they prophesy that 2000 years later legitimate NEW prophets and apostles would arise to establish a NEW foundation for the church to 'revolutionize' the Christianity they gave their lives to establish the church in. This is what these false 'new' apostles and prophets teach.
To the contrary, the lord and his Apostles made it clear their teachings were the permanent teachings of the faith, once and for all delivered to the saints - while they warned against the constant encroachment of false teachers who would come in to the church to shipwreck the faith of true believers if possible - and try to prevent others from knowing the truth.
The Lord and his Apostles also made it clear that false teachers ALWAYS have self-serving motives. And that they pose as true shepherds of God's flock to draw them away unto themselves to empower themselves to achieve their SELF-serving purposes. They are pictured as ravenous wolves seeking to devour God's flock.
Once we become familiar with scripture, red flags will go up all over the place when these wolves appear. They will present themselves as ministers of righteousness but we will know what they really are and avoid them. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 283
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 9:31 am: |
|
Julia,
False teachers who publicly parade their false teaching through the church are to be publicly exposed...to warn others and in defense of the faith.
This is not the situation taught in scripture to go to them privately. That is in regard to a brother who has personally sinned against us.
We are to always be on guard against false teaching and teachers and expose them in the light of day. The Apostle Paul did several times. |
rachelengland
Senior Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 2565
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.113.3
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 9:45 am: |
|
False teachers who publicly parade their false teaching through the church are to be publicly exposed...to warn others and in defense of the faith.
That was very well put anony and with the state of the church today and the many dangerous false teachings out there it would be impossible to go personally to each and everyone and discuss their error!
If we who know the truth and have seen the devastation and leading astray of others because of false prophet or teacher,we can not ignore and turn the other way-because then we make ourselves as followers of christ guilty of not warning others... |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 284
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:00 am: |
|
If Mary Banks has only strayed, she needs to get back into God's truth and repent for leading other people astray.
But these people are so blinded by the outrageous arrogance of this movement. |
rachelengland
Senior Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 2567
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.113.3
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 10:05 am: |
|
ARROGANCE-now that is a good word for it-we are never to far from God's grace but we need to admit our faults and get back on track and why that is sooooo hard for ministers I do not know but we have seen time and time again that that arrogance has lead to fall.. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 285
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.69.211
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 11:46 am: |
|
So true, rachelengland. And this movement has to be the most arrogant of them all. It you look into their teachings you will be appalled. They are just sheer blasphemy - all in the name of Jesus Christ of course.
I'm always concerned about young Christians who have not yet grown in the knowledge of the truth and are easy targets for this kind of thing.
Notice how all the false movements today are targeting the young and marginalizing those mature in the faith. What does that tell you?!
I think most of the leaders have at one time been confronted by the truth and rejected it. Too bad for them but their choice. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 286
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.123.175
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Oh yes! Pride is one of our truest bluest enemies! It opens the door or us to become imprisoned in the intoxication of our own vain imaginings and the flattering doctrines of devils.
Satan <loves> to appeal to our pride!
Boy is this movement packed full of it. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 216
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.224.128
| | Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2007 - 8:35 pm: |
|
It doesn't sound like she is laying any new foundation, but building on Christ, as we are exhorted to do.
Sounds to me like your problem is the one of accepting that apostles and prophets still get raised up today, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the church today it is hard to find anyone living totally sold out for the truth and for Jesus, many stray to self serving tactics and the self can be very deceptive, some are luke warm, some are dead, some are over zealous and miss the Spirit of God in their hype. It is hard to find anyone truly following God all the way to the passion and power that is found beyond the Cross. The passion and power Jesus died for, so we could share in.
To find someone who is living at the Cross and full of the power thereon is hard and you will find that person is very much persecuted by the church especially. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 287
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.65.24.180
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 2:14 am: |
|
Hi Julia,
I'll have to get back with you tomorrow as it is late and I'm pooped.
God bless. |
rachelengland
Senior Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 2575
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.113.71
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 9:27 am: |
|
anony-I can't hang here today either but tomorrow I want to respond to what you said about false teachings and new christians-I really appreciate your stance and spiritual grounding. R |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 289
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.78.55
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 1:52 pm: |
|
I'm pretty busy this week so will not be here except maybe in the evening. In the meantime here are some articles on what is going on in the New Apostles and Prophets movement. Not all in it are equally involved on the same level in this GNOSTICISM, but as you will be able to see many are big time.
Since this is such a big movement in the apostasizing church it is wise to know everything about it.
As for Mary Banks I want to listen to her videos on her site when I have time so I will know as closely as possible where she is coming from before I say more about her.
RACHELENGLAND....I will try to check back here again this evening. God bless.
www.velocity.net/~edju
Scroll down to:
"Strange Fire: The Rise Of Gnosticism In The Church" By Travers and Jewel van der Merwe (10-Part Series)
There are other articles all over the internet about this of course. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 290
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.78.55
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 2:04 pm: |
|
I just want to say also that we always need to be good bereans and check out thoroughly anything that we might be tempted to follow after simply because it sounds ok on the surface. Most false teaching is combined with some truth, some of it with a lot of truth, which can make it difficult to identify the false that is the poison and can lead us astray. Jesus warned that even sincere believers can be seduced by deceived teachers if at all possible. |
cybermom
Advanced Member
Username: cybermom
Post Number: 704
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.186.102.112
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 3:37 pm: |
|
anony
Thanks for the links and wisdom. I can't agree more with your last post. Most doctrinal error creeps in because hearers don't take the messages they listen to and hold them up to the light of the Word of God. That is to be our only standard.
Cybermom |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 217
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.206.171
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 5:54 pm: |
|
I don't agree. If you continue to post someone else's writings without commenting yourself, I am not even going to bother discussing this.
Firstly, I do not agree that an apostles or prophets movement of today is necessarily linked to gnosticism at all and frankly I don't see the connection at all.
It would be good if you listened to her yourself then report your findings, then we could have a fruitful discussion, I don't subscribe to people whose sole purpose in life is to criticize and pull down the work of God, and unless what they say lines up with scripture I just see it as the work of the devil.
I will look at the article you posted when I have time, until then, one question I have is this: someone who teaches Holiness and sinlessness is not likely to be into gnosticism as the gnostics believe the flesh is evil and can never be sanctified, whereas Holiness teachers usually teach the opposite, i.e. that Holiness in the flesh is possible when we consecrate the works thereof.
Soooo, I don't get the connection at all. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 291
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.240.102.214
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 8:37 am: |
|
Julia,
Yes, I am all for holiness and I agree that the church is full of moral laxity.
But other things about Mary Banks and this movement are not right. Right off the bat Mary announces that her teaching authority is validated by her claimed encounter with 'Jesus'. This is totally misleading. Every teacher's authority is validated only by his adherence to God's Word. God has given us his transcendant word of truth so that we we can know it and discern truth from error for our own spiritual welfare.
Personal visions and encounters with 'jesus' and angels cannot be verified by anyone. How brash to make such a claim and think the body of Christ should be impressed. That doesn't even make sense.
Whatever visions Mary and others have have nothing to do with their veracity as teachers, or even as believers for that matter.
In fact, many of these people are into nothing more than their own imaginations which can open the door to demonic voices.
This is common in the Latter Rain/New Apostles and prophets, etc, movement.
The articles I referred to are teaching material. You need to read them too and measure <everything anybody says by God's Word of truth. It alone is the authority for the Christian faith.
Btw, the largest cult in earth promotes morality.
Mary's lack of discernment about TBN also makes me suspicious. That she prides herself on Matt Crouch's recommendation of her book is astonishing. Matt, like his father, despises Christians who have rightfully criticized all the unbiblical teaching on TBN. In fact Paul Crouch says 'doo-doo on doctrine. Matt expresses the same animosity toward berean Christians.
Since Mary claims God has revealed to her so much truth, why would she want to be associated with TBn and prize their recommendaion of her? Lots of muddy water here. Can't see through muddy water.
I |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 219
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.230.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 4:48 pm: |
|
"Personal visions and encounters with 'jesus' and angels cannot be verified by anyone. How brash to make such a claim and think the body of Christ should be impressed. That doesn't even make sense"
And when one has a vision should they not share it? Bible is full of visions that have been shared by people of God for the people of God.
Fact is when one has an encounter with Jesus they are lifted to seat in heavenly places with Him and many get jealous but people can't do a thing about it, because God rules.
TBN offers a service of broadcasting God's word, I have learnt some stuff relevant to my faith on TBN and I don't know Matt. Truthfully I may or may not like him, that doesn't really matter, what does matter is that God's Word gets out.
You tell me where the waters are not muddy, because I would love to go there too.
Firstly you seemed to have a beef about the Holiness movement, now you say you are for Holiness, I am confused. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 220
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.230.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 4:57 pm: |
|
Firstly you complain the church is full of moral laxity, then you state that "the largest cult on earth promotes morality", fact is true morality is in the heart and apart from the words that come out of someone's mouth and their actions, there is no way we can gage that morality.
Morality, to me is like Jesus, only He is truly moral, people often have their own agendas, and that is immoral, one thing to put on a show, another to live it.
Thanks for that writing you posted, I will read it, I may not agree with it but I will read it. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 292
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.154.4
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 7:49 pm: |
|
Julia,
I will respond to your posts to the best of my ability at the moment.
The scripture you partially quoted from Ephesians 2:4-6 is saying that all true believers are raised up to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. This is not only for an elite group within the church, if that is what you were inferring.
So there is no reason for jealousy. In fact, since its beginning, God has made his church to abound in all his heavenly graces which he says are immeasurable. They are for every believer.
Read Ephesians for a wonderful fuller account of the believers position in Christ.
I will say again that a teacher/leader is validated only by his faithful adherence to God's Word already given to us throughout scripture. Scripture gives us the whole panoramic view of human history and God's dealing with mankind and sin and salvation. It tells us everything future from the Garden till the end of this age. It gives is the doctrines of the faith. It tells us what to expect until the Lord's return and how we are to function.
So we don't need 'new' revelations. In fact many of the new apostles and prophets are saying many things that are contrary to what God has already said. We need to be on the lookout for this and test by God's Word alone everything we are told by ANYONE, no matter who they are or how important they claim to be.
More than anything, I just want you to understand the importance of this.
Again, nowhere does God say that visions are to validate anyone. If people want to share them, then those who hear them are to, again, test them by God's Word.
As for personal encounters with Jesus, I doubt they are real, Julia. Everywhere I have read in scripture so far, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father until he returns. If you can show me something else in scripture, please do.
Not to mention, there is NO NEED for Jesus to appear in person. The Holy Spirit has already given the church the full revelation of him in word and in Spirit within us as we are in him. So what's the point. He's not going to tell them anything he did not reveal to his Apostles for them to establish and teach the church. As scripture says, the doctrines of the faith were given by them for the entire church throughout time. God has already given us the full revelation of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said many would claim to see him here and there but not to believe them, for no one would see him again until he returns at his second coming when everyone will see him. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 293
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.154.4
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 12:06 am: |
|
Julia...
The point about morality is that promoting it doesn't necessarily make one a Christian.
Mary Banks is running a deal on holiness while claiming other things that are seriously untrue.
More than a holiness movement, we need our teachers and leaders to get restored to humble submission to God's word alone and direct the flock's attention back to it. Immorality is the fruit of wrong or weak beliefs.
Instead they stay out on tangents of their 'new revelations', 'new truth for the 21st century church', etc, all of which is pure heresy.
These people aren't teaching God's Word. Many of them say we need to get away from it, the Bible is dusty old love letters, etc. Others lead away from it without saying so. They are trying to remake Christianity and the church into what THEY want them to be.
Listen closely and you will hear them lift scriptures out of context( if you know what the Bible says to begin with) and put them in whole other contexts to accomodate their agendas. Chuck Pierce and many others are good at this. The they sensationalize and emotionalize it and everybody responds likewise. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 222
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.188.225
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:28 am: |
|
Dear Anony, I will come up with some scripture for you, I want to ask you: do you believe in the trinity? We have been given the Holy Spirit to counsel us and the Father Son and Holy Spirit are one. When we are born again and living water comes from our bellies that is the Holy Spirit and that is also Jesus because the trinity is the same.
Many are called and few are chosen(Ma 20:16), so many "believers" actually don't truly believe, otherwise they too would be lifted in heavenly places, and yes it is a special seat, only for a few, only for the chosen ones who make their faith alive.
You know anony, God doesn't change, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He has spoken to prophets in the past and He is continuing to do so, yes this does still cause the jealousy Jesus was crucified for, even today that envy is alive in the hearts of unbelievers or people who pretend to believe and even pay Him lip service, but their hearts are far away.
Each and every person needs to have their own revelation of Jesus Christ, as each needs to go and die at the cross, otherwise there is no eternal life. At the Cross we can meet Jesus Himself, through the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9-10 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man [or woman] have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. 10 } And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Galatians 2:20 "
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.
Philippians 1:21 " For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain"
Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life"
That is in the power of the resurrection,of course this is only for those who continue to mortify the deeds of the flesh as Paul says we need to die daily, it is also for the few who are chosen, the Ones who truly believe in their hearts and have confessed Him before men with their mouths. The Ones who have been touched and quickened by the Hand of God with His touch of the miracle of life.The ones who care more about God than man and the Ones who would rather fear God than man. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 223
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.188.225
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:39 am: |
|
And, of course for those who have died in the first place, in Christ and have been then raised as well at the right hand of the Father in Christ Jesus. That is the authority of believers, BTW. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 224
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.188.225
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 5:42 am: |
|
For the sake of keeping a sound mind and not get lofty; I also wish to point out that Jesus said in Matt 25:40 "....inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these my brethren (sistren are included), ye have done it unto me
Meaning that Jesus Christ lives in the least of the brothers and sisters of faith. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 225
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.188.225
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 5:44 am: |
|
Let me know if you need some more scripture and I will do my best to try to enlighten you with more regarding this subject. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 294
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.154.4
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 2:04 pm: |
|
Julia,
Yes I have been powerfully born again by God's Spirit...30 years ago now. So I know everything you have said. Could you tell me what that has to do with the issue of Mary banks and the new apostles and prophets movement?
I will have to differ with you on the jealousy issue. True born again believers are already in the high heavenly places with Christ Jesus. That's my point - there is nothing to be jealous of.
There have always been people in the church who have not been born again, many of them. if this is who you are talking about being jealous, what can I say. But true believers cannot be jealous.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. So there can be no valid differing revelations of him to various individuals. We either know him by the Spirit of God inside us or we don't know him at all. He said there would be many false Jesuses. And so there are.
Just got another interruption, so will get back to this a little later. |
julia
Intermediate Member
Username: julia
Post Number: 226
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 59.101.188.225
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 4:48 pm: |
|
Anony, you said this in your above post:
"As for personal encounters with Jesus, I doubt they are real, Julia. Everywhere I have read in scripture so far, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father until he returns. If you can show me something else in scripture, please do."
The above scripture is to show you personal encounters with Jesus exists, as every true born again believer knows.
Jealousy, is eradicated at the new birth, but we do have to keep it in check as we are exhorted to die daily, so this old nature has a propensity to rear up its' head easily. Jealousy will cause people to complain about someone or try to pick holes in their work not with progress in mind but to pull down the work of Christ.
I believe the prophets are subject to the prophets, and I know the Spirit of God brings forth both old and new things so we are not only bound to other people's experiences of old, but get to have our own ones too:
The Living Word of God brings to light old truths but also brings new ones Matthew 13:52 from the treasure house of God.
I do agree that when people say the Word f God is outdated, or no longer applies, that is not true, but if their foundation is in the Word and they have been raised up by God to shed light on His Word, then that is a different story.
I say that the apostles and prophets movement is one that began over two thousand years ago and is still operating, as far as what Mary Banks has to do with it, apart from being an apostle herself, I don't know, it is not I bringing the charge against her, and you have not made it clear what, exactly it is that you don't agree with. You have said you don't agree with the apostles prophets movement, well you can pull out ten papers on that and tell me how the prophets and apostles no longer speak, but that is not biblical, neither is it my experience.
So if your problem is with the apostles prophets movement, okay, then be clear about that, if your problem is something else then say so please, because I don't understand what charge you bring against this woman. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 295
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.154.4
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:03 pm: |
|
Julia,
Who is jealous about what and why? I visited another 'prophetess' website and she was talking about people being jealous of her for some reason. I guess that goes with the territory. Just another way to express one's inordinate pride.
All I can say is this, Julia - it is not rational that a truly born again person seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus would be jealous of 'prophets' who can't even prophesy any more accurately than the pagan prophetess Jeane Dixon, and have to scramble to make excuses for it and hold national conferences to figure out how to do it better. What an absurd picture.
Truth is, God said people who prophesy falsely are not sent by him, that they are prophesying out of their own imagination.
Guess that tells us where these people are coming from.
This whole movement is rooted in self-adulating imagination.
Neither are rational Christians jealous of false apostles who claim new truths when scripture makes it clear that God's truth is eternal and never changes, and that the doctrines of the Christian faith were set in stone by the Lord's true Apostles.
I think some true Christians get caught up in this mess because of all its razzmataz and braggadocia. It is a false movement if there ever was one and they need to get out of it and get their minds washed in God's word of truth.
I fully reject Mary Banks claim that her face to face encounter with 'jesus' unquestionably validates her as an 'apostle'. She didn't describe a born again experience, whatever she thought it was.
Her claim is foreign to the truth of scripture. Only the Lord's Apostles made that claim because it validated their teaching and leadership authority, having been witnesses to the Lord's resurrection I think, Paul being the one exception.
Are these so-called prophets and apostles trying to usurp the position of the LORD's APOSTLES to change the doctrines of the faith with their 'new truth?? How slippery sneakin of satan. What unspeakable arrogance. If you get into their writings you will find them saying they are going to be even GREATER than the Lord's Apostles AND God's Old Testament Prophets!
Boy have they got a shock in store for them. They are allowing themselves to be deluded by the father of lies. He suckers us by appealing to our pride. No movement flaunts more pride of self and self-importance than this one.
Btw, if you want excellent teaching on holiness, try scripture alone. Nothing compares to it.
The church needs teachers of the young in Christ who teach from scripture alone. Only CULTS make excuses to go beyond it, and they do it by simply changing the meaning of scripture, like this movement does. |
anony
Intermediate Member
Username: anony
Post Number: 296
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.154.4
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:27 pm: |
|
Btw Julia.... God gave us his Word of truth and Spirit of truth which together work miraculous transformation in us.
We dont need 'rare specially annointed' teachers. We need what God has already given us in abundance. |
