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Message |
    
smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna
Post Number: 1474
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 66.157.43.229
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 12:30 am: | 
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yes Ezekiel,
I was thinking along those lines. I'd say every one of us once thought that Cain was Adam's son. And a lot of other nonsense too. Like a talking snake, magic fruit trees, an ancient boat built by a guy that also had to be an ancient version of Steve Irwin going all over the globe collecting animals, flying horses pulling a chariot while the whole rig is on fire,(Elijah's parting from terra firma) and all sorts of other medieval fairy tales.
These modern theologians are open to many ideas, and I assume some will be very open to the serpent seed material. Some won't especially those educated in a denominationally biased institution. Remember Hal Lindsay and Dallas Theological?
Rapture, black helicopters, 666 tatoos, the whole bit. You won't find any of that talk at say, St. Joseph's Seminary. So I look forward to a lively discussion, without the ignorance and Biblical illiteracy that bogs down these forums.
By the way, I'll be Smyrna1084 there. |
godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 4205
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.215.247.13
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 1:13 am: |
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smyrna, That has to be one of your most 'ignorant' statements. To say "some won't especially those educated in a denominationally biased institution" when you, zeke and I'm fairly certain other scer's were educated in the Catholic Church, is ludicrous; especially since all the people who disagree with am/sc are from many different denominations, including Catholic, and many who are non-denominational. When you convince the Catholic Church of the serpent seed doctrine, where Adam (who, by the way, couldn't get preggy, so I don't understand why any of you would even suggest satan had sex with him in order to corrupt the pure blood-line) and Eve had sex with satan because this snake (or tree according to some of you) was so desirable they couldn't resist him, please be sure to let us know. Personally, I've never met anybody who got aroused by a snake or a tree, but then I don't think the way scer's do. |
ezekiel_37
Senior Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 206.186.79.91
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 3:46 pm: |
|
I think that by now you fully understand that we(sc and others) know the "serpent (not snake) and the Tree of knowledge of good and evil (in the midst) are references to Satan (the Devil).
So, sex with Satan the Devil producing the adversarial lineage.
Eve sinned. That much is true. 100% fully wholey seduced.
Adam sinned too, that much is true. There are different opinions as to what that sin was. I have never heard Pastor Murray teach that it was a homosexual affair, as he leaves it to you to decide.
Apples......not! Snake.......not!
I have no problem with you stating your opposition to our understanding of Doctrine, but to lie about it is wrong. So consider that please as you try to witness.
In His service
c |
smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 66.157.43.229
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 5:25 pm: |
|
Godchild wrote: "Personally, I've never met anybody who got aroused by a snake or a tree, but then I don't think the way scer's do."
Another deliberate misrepresentation. No, make it a lie., Because Godchild knows that we do not believe satan was a snake or turned into a snake, as some allege. I wonder what Godchild has to say about the symbolism of Revelation? |
grace2u
Advanced Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 590
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 8:13 pm: |
|
an ancient boat built by a guy that also had to be an ancient version of Steve Irwin going all over the globe collecting animals,
So you think that this is symbolic too? You don't believe that Noah built a boat and put animals on board?
You know the problem I have with the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil being "sex" is that there is more to Knowledge than the Knowledge of sex and or reproduction. |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.255.80.107
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 8:36 pm: |
|
Watchman and Smyrna,
doug,
This is the second time you alluded to "large holes in its reasoning" in reference to the Serpent Seed Doctrine. Yet, you have not declared what you think are those holes.
Have not had a lot of time lately.
I am not commenting on the bible lineages because I want to have time to look at them and come to my own conclusions but some of the large holes in reasoning I perceive are
the fact that the seed is defined in the new testament as the word of God and not a race of people
Eve giving Adam to eat and them eating of all the other trees in relation of your definition seems as weird as not understanding the meaning of talking snakes and magic fruit. What were the other trees? Why did she give to Adam?
Makes more sense to me that Adam needed Eve to be wrong to justify himself and blame God for Adam disobeying God because Adam had the command directly from God. It is something I see in all races where men use women and sex to escape from God and make women into their gods to save them from guilt. It is obvious to me what good and evil are and that taking life and death into ones own hands does not give one the power to escape death like God had given Adam and Eve before they sinned.
Also the fact that Christ was not a procreating being as Adam but a life giving spirit and the fact that sin is not from outside a person but in a person and that Christ was, if I remember the scripture correctly, casting out Satan from believers making Satan a spiritual being.
Why was Adam, in your teaching, but not Cain not referred to as Eve's seed when he came out of her body too?
Your teaching would have to explain a whole lot more than it does before I could accept it as real. |
grace2u
Advanced Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 593
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 8:39 pm: |
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the fact that the seed is defined in the new testament as the word of God and not a race of people
YES!!!!!!! And satan is referred to as the father of LIES!!! There are your seeds!!! Words!!!!
True words and false words!!!! |
grace2u
Advanced Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 594
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 8:41 pm: |
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Cain's "spiritual" father was satan because he believed his lies.
Adam was Cain's physical father. |
watchman_2
Senior Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 1950
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 11:40 pm: |
|
Doug,
Genesis was written in Hebrew -- not Greek. So, when you examine the word 'seed' in Gen. 3:15 you see,
H2233
zera‛
zeh'-rah
From H2232; seed; figuratively fruit, plant, sowing time, posterity: - X carnally, child, fruitful, seed (-time), sowing-time.
So, you have two choices -- a plant/fruit seed or posterity/child. There is no 3rd choice of followers/spiritual offspring. The word can also never be rendered as the word of God in this context.
If you look at the NT, you also see the word 'seed' referencing offspring.
om 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
The word 'seed' meaning,
G4690
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.
So, the problem is your confusion over the words in their original language instead of "large holes in reasoning".
If you choose plant/fruit seed, then Gen. 3:15 is speaking of an orchard growing contest between a snake and a woman [later to be named Eve because she was pregnant] that grow fruit with such large seeds that the seeds can bruise heads and heels. Those that inserted the word 'his' into the text, referring to the ownership of the 'heel', were completely nuts. If you think that make sense, then we are through.
Now, if, for the woman's half of the prophesy of Gen. 3:15, you choose the interpretation of 'seed' as offspring -- that offspring leading to Christ [the heel that would be bruised -- pierced with a spike], then you likewise have to use the same interpretation of 'seed' for the other half of the prophesy -- the serpent's seed.
Now we know that the serpent is only allegorical/symbolic for Satan [Rev. 12:9, 20:2] due to the role Satan was playing in the Garden. So, irrespective of your problem with the trees in the Garden and the wording of Gen. 3:6, we know that Satan has literal offsping from Gen. 3:14-15.
If you are not prepared to assert that the offspring of Satan resulted from Satan's sexual union with Eve, then you would need to provide scriptural support to justify Satan's union with another woman. I find no such scriptural justification for sex with any woman other than the woman in Gen. 3:15 [later to be named Eve]. |
smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna
Post Number: 1489
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 66.157.43.229
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 2:18 am: |
|
Grace2u quotes me: "an ancient boat built by a guy that also had to be an ancient version of Steve Irwin going all over the globe collecting animals,"
Gr2u:
"So you think that this is symbolic too? You don't believe that Noah built a boat and put animals on board?"
What I believe is that Noah only took animals with him to survive, not to repopulate the earth. God didn't need any Noah or boat to help repopulate the earth after the destruction of the age of the dinosaurs.
In addition, Noah's flood did not cover the entire planet. The OT English translators rendered the Hebrew word "eretz" and rendered it world. In our time world commonly means the entire planet. But
"eretz" means land, region, or district.
Now there is a constant debate on the flood and Noah's Ark among Christians, but the differences usually result from failing to realize there was major destruction prior to the "replenishment" which is chronicled in Genesis 1. The later account of flood of Noah was obviously a separate event.
Components of each account are often applied to them interchangeably, a reckless approach to understanding both events. |
catholic_man
Intermediate Member
Username: catholic_man
Post Number: 223
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 72.161.119.77
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 5:06 am: |
|
So if Satan is Cain's father then where are all the people running around with the little horns on their heads? Believe it or not, there are some people crazy enough to have plastic surgery just for that purpose. Satan may be their spiritual father not their physical father.
That was the case with Cain, too.
Again the answer to this question of the father of Cain is simple. It was Adam, physically. Satan became his spiritual father.
Scripture tells us that we cannot serve two master's. Cain made his choice.
Here's more simplicity:
Cain killed Abel because Abel wasn't able to kill Cain! |
grace2u
Advanced Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 598
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 7:50 am: |
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All I can say is that God doesn't have to use man for a lot of things but he does. |
watchman_2
Senior Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 1951
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:57 am: |
|
So, as we can see, catholic_man believes that Gen. 3:15 speaks of the orchard growing contest between a snake and a woman. Furthermore, catholic_man believes that the text is corrupt for inserting the word "his" in reference to the ownership of the "heel" that is to be bruised.
Surely, catholic_man can tell us which fruit tree grows fruit with seeds so large that they bruise heads and heels.
Or, catholic_man can tell us whom is the spiritual seed of the woman.
The naysayers can beat around the bush all they want; but, the only rendering that makes sense and can be squared in the scriptures is literal offspring of the woman and of Satan. |
terluvire
Advanced Member
Username: terluvire
Post Number: 533
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 24.115.63.15
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:24 am: |
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I just had to comment on this quote made by Catholic_man:
So if Satan is Cain's father then where are all the people running around with the little horns on their heads?
What makes you think satan has horns on his head? I read nowhere in Scripture that satan is literally described in this way. Eze.28 describes him as beautiful. |
skooter942000
Intermediate Member
Username: skooter942000
Post Number: 132
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.243.164.102
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 1:31 pm: |
|
[A Time Out]
From the Musical Group named (RAT)
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/ratt-round-and-round-lyrics.html
Round and round
With love we'll find a way just give it time
Round and round
What comes around goes around
I'll tell you why
- (cut)
-----------
--------------
----------------
No Name Dropping,
- But Facts are Facts
Pearls & Swine = "WASTED TIME"
If people don't want the TRUTH ,
- Like many here,
(what + Point) = ???
Rinse (repeat)
Rinse (repeat)
Rinse (repeat)
Rinse (repeat)
Rinse (repeat)
-Can we make the BLIND to SEE?
We all receive the same Penny. ( On_ pay_ day )
BTW - Where is the INCREASE here?
- With the detractors?
Seeds have been Planted
Stopped on
Watered
Bulldozed
watered again
Dug up
Replanted again.
...ETC
.....ETC (E_T_C)
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Pearls & Swine = "WASTED TIME"
Not calling CHRISTIANS (SWINE).
- These are not my words.
Doulos Don <*))>< |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1489
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.125.92.21
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 1:50 pm: |
|
Watchman
I meant Why was descendants of Adam, hence "your seed shall crush his head", in your teaching, but not Cain's descendants referred to as Eve's seed when Cain came out of her body too? Why is not Cain also referred to as "your seed" when God speaks to Eve saying "your seed will crush his head"?
And now that you mention the seed thing with Paul, I wonder, how does that relate to Eve's sperma?
I have not researched the part you just mentioned about seed though it can be interchangeable but I am in the process of looking up the scripture you quoted as referring to gentiles existing after the flood but in Genesis 10:5 Gentiles is referring to descendants of Noah and Gentiles also can refer to descendants of Israel.
I am not sure where you make a positive connection with a pre flood lineage? |
watchman_2
Senior Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 1954
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 2:31 pm: |
|
doug,
Yes, Cain came from Eve and Christ from the seed of Adam would also come through Eve.
If I understand your question correctly, you are inquiring as to the two seed lines since both came through Eve.
God is speaking to the serpent [Satan] in Gen. 3:14-15. Both God and Satan know the reason why Satan impregnated the woman, for both God and Satan know the purpose of this second age in time [2Pet 3:3-7]. Satan was attempting to mess up the pure bloodline to Christ and to try to be spared from the sentence [perish] given to Satan by God for Satan's actions in the first age. If Satan was able to successfully infiltrate the bloodline to Christ, Satan could claim fathership to Christ. God's plan would have been successfully corrupted. God would have to destroy this age, and start over again, to bring forth the Messiah.
So, in Gen. 3:15, God is informing Satan that Satan's plan will not work and that the seed to come thru the woman ["her seed"] will defeat Satan's seed. God goes on to inform the woman in Gen. 3:16 that God will multiply her pregnancy, along with her sorrow.
The 'sperma' word is Greek, clearly inferring a male component. Despite what you wrote, the Greek and Hebrew are not interchangeable even though they translate to the same English word. Where did you ever learn that the Hebrew and Greek could be used that way?
Here is the Strong's for the word 'gentile',
H1471
גּי גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
It has meant varied things throughout the Bible -- non-Israelite, non-Jew, foreigners, heathens, etc.
In Gen. 10:5, it is referring to all those peoples not of the bloodline of Noah -- the 6th Day creation. Of course, Israel [sons of Jacob] are many generations in the future as of the time of Gen. 10:5. |
pro610
Advanced Member
Username: pro610
Post Number: 743
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.204.143.12
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 9:38 am: |
|
Smyrna,watchman,zeke,
I see you decided NOT to take up the challenge and post your heretical belief about Cain being satan,s son on Free Republic.
Don,t bother posting some silly excuse either.
There is an old saying I remember from my athletic days,it goes as follows......
"You can fool the crowds,but you can,t fool the players"
Here is another saying from Mother Angelica...
"Those who tell the Truth love you. Those who tell you what you want to hear love themselves."—Mother Angelica
I have have nothing further to say to any of you other then I will pray for you to open your eyes to the TRUTH.
Titus 3:10 Warn a heretic once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
I have already exceeded my limit of 2 warnings!
A lesson from Sanit Paul....
For there are many insubordinate men, empty talker and deceivers…they must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for base gain what they have no right to teach... therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, instead of giving heed to Jewish myths or to commands of men who reject the truth.—Titus 1:10-13 |
pro610
Advanced Member
Username: pro610
Post Number: 744
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 69.204.143.12
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 9:42 am: |
|
Correction post #743
Should read- A lesson from **Saint** Paul.... |
catholic_man
Intermediate Member
Username: catholic_man
Post Number: 230
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.135.19.86
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:41 am: |
|
This came from one of those dreaded FW: emails that says if you don't share it you'll die.  We know better that!! Anyway, I thought I would share although not for fear of my life. 
WHY GOD CREATED CHILDREN (AND IN THE PROCESS GRANDCHILDREN)
To those of us who have children in our lives,
whether they are our own,
grandchildren,
nieces,
nephews,
or students...
here is something to make you chuckle.
Whenever your children are out of control,
you can take comfort from the thought that
even God's omnipotence did not extend
to His own children.
After creating heaven and earth,
God created Adam and Eve.
And the first thing he said was
"DON'T!"
"Don't what?"
Adam replied.
"Don't eat the forbidden fruit."
God said.
"What? Forbidden fruit?
We have forbidden fruit?! Cool!
Hey Eve! We have forbidden fruit!"
"No Way!"
"Yes way!"
"Do NOT eat the fruit! "
said God.
"Why?"
"Because I am your Father and I said so!"
God replied,
wondering why He hadn't stopped
creation after making the elephants.
A few minutes later,
God saw His children having an apple break
and He was ticked!
"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit? "
God asked.
"Uh huh,"
Adam replied.
"Then why did you? "
said the Father.
"I don't know,"
said Eve.
"She started it! "
Adam said.
"Did not! "
"Did too! "
"DID NOT! "
Having had it with the two of them,
God's punishment was that Adam and Eve
should have children of their own.
Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed. |
catholic_man
Intermediate Member
Username: catholic_man
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 67.135.19.86
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:49 am: |
|
Part Two:
BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE ABOVE STORY!
If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven't taken it,
don't be hard on yourself. 
If God had trouble raising children,
what makes you think it would be
a piece of cake for you? 
THINGS TO THINK ABOUT!
1. You spend the first two years of their life
teaching them to walk and talk. Then you spend
the next sixteen telling them to sit down and shut up.
2. Grandchildren are God's reward
for not killing your own children. Your parents were kind enough to not kill you!
3. Mothers of teens now know why
some animals eat their young.
4. Children seldom misquote you.
In fact,
they usually repeat word for word
what you shouldn't have said.
5. The main purpose of holding children's parties
is to remind yourself that there are children
more awful than your own.
6. We childproofed our homes,
but they are still getting in.
ADVICE FOR THE DAY:
Be nice to your kids.
They will choose your
nursing home one day.
AND FINALLY:
IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF TENSION
AND YOU GET A HEADACHE,
DO WHAT IT SAYS
ON THE ASPIRIN BOTTLE:
"TAKE TWO ASPIRIN"
AND "KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN"!!!!!
Quick,
send this on to ten people
within the next five minutes.
Nothing will happen if you don't,
but if you do,
ten people will be laughing!!  |
ezekiel_37
Senior Member
Username: ezekiel_37
Post Number: 1534
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 206.186.79.91
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 3:48 pm: |
|
Pro...I have less than an hour on line during weekdays...for now.
I simply don't have the time....right now.
But I will attempt to go there in the future when I have more time....and as smyrna has stated...he is game....so am I but lack the physical time....for now!
Peace in Christ
c |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.251.46.106
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 9:35 pm: |
|
God is speaking to the serpent [Satan] in Gen. 3:14-15. Both God and Satan know the reason why Satan impregnated the woman, for both God and Satan know the purpose of this second age in time [2Pet 3:3-7]. Satan was attempting to mess up the pure bloodline to Christ and to try to be spared from the sentence [perish] given to Satan by God for Satan's actions in the first age. If Satan was able to successfully infiltrate the bloodline to Christ, Satan could claim fathership to Christ. God's plan would have been successfully corrupted. God would have to destroy this age, and start over again, to bring forth the Messiah.
So, in Gen. 3:15, God is informing Satan that Satan's plan will not work and that the seed to come thru the woman ["her seed"] will defeat Satan's seed. God goes on to inform the woman in Gen. 3:16 that God will multiply her pregnancy, along with her sorrow.
That seems possible
The 'sperma' word is Greek, clearly inferring a male component. Despite what you wrote, the Greek and Hebrew are not interchangeable even though they translate to the same English word. Where did you ever learn that the Hebrew and Greek could be used that way?
I know Greek and Hebrew are not interchangeable. One of us, probably me, must have misunderstood something the other said if you think I said that.
Here is the Strong's for the word 'gentile',
H1471
גּי גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
It has meant varied things throughout the Bible -- non-Israelite, non-Jew, foreigners, heathens, etc.
You left out Israelite
Isiah 1:4;9:2; 26:2;49:7.
Genesis 35:11;12:2
Psalm33:12
The same word also is clearly used referring to Israel.
In Gen. 10:5, it is referring to all those peoples not of the bloodline of Noah -- the 6th Day creation. Of course, Israel [sons of Jacob] are many generations in the future as of the time of Gen. 10:5.
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation 01471, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name [is] Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation 01471 and a company of nations 01471 shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
etc etc
And this, before I started looking closely at it, seemed to be one of your stronger points earlier on.
How do you explain eating of the tree of life? What family is that that Adam and Eve were kept out of Eden so they could not, in your terminology, have sex with "and live forever? |
smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 66.157.43.229
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:28 pm: |
|
Doug,
It would be easier on all of us if you study the Shepherd's Chapel threads regarding the Serpent's Seed. Most, if not all of your questions have been addressed there. |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1493
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.251.46.106
| | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:21 pm: |
|
smyrna
I'm not planning to dig through and study hundreds of threads just to find an answer to my present question How do you explain eating of the tree of life? What family is that that Adam and Eve were kept out of Eden so they could not, in your terminology, have sex with "and live forever?. If you don't want to answer them than don't. Certain parts of your doctrine I understand but it is not conclusive to me.
The part about the gentiles seemed to be a strong point about there being other nations apart from Noah after the flood but when I looked at the word for gentile it is used referring to Israel a number of times. Watchman failed to mention it. That's just another weakness in the doctrine.
I believe that Jesus is the tree of life and we must eat his flesh and drink his blood which is what the wine and bread in the passover supper symbolize. I don't believe that this is a sexual thing but actually about an end to procreating, hence the last Adam. When the believers, the bride of Christ, are at the marriage supper, they will have eternal life and not need to replace their undying bodies with new ones.
The angel of death that passes over at the passover supper is the cherubim that guards Eden where the tree of life is partaken of. I don't see anything sexual about that. Do you? |
skooter942000
Intermediate Member
Username: skooter942000
Post Number: 141
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.243.170.120
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:20 pm: |
|
satan is the DEATH-ANGEL.
He is the Angel of death.
= Apollyon/Abaddon
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are
partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself
likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power
of death, that is, the devil;
Hbr 2:15 And deliver them who through fear
of death were all their lifetime subject to
bondage.
The Cherubim Guard the mercy seat,
- (Where GOD Dwells).
- Does EDEN exist on Earth today?
- Where "ALMIGHTY GOD" is ,
- (so are "HIS PROTECTORS").
Don <*))>< |
watchman_2
Senior Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:30 pm: |
|
Hi doug,
I'll try to answer your questions.
First, you wrote,
You left out Israelite
Isiah 1:4;9:2; 26:2;49:7.
Genesis 35:11;12:2
Psalm33:12
The same word also is clearly used referring to Israel.
The word 'Gentile(s)' is not the rendering in any of these verses. So, when is it rendered 'Gentile' and when is it rendered 'nation'? If the context is outside of that which is considered the family at the time, it is rendered as 'Gentile'. If it is considered within the family, the word 'nation' is rendered.
Hence, in Gen. 10:5, all that remained of the family bloodline from Adam is Noah and his family. The 6th day creation would not be of Adam's pure bloodline, so their nations/lands are referred to as "Gentile".
With respect to "eating of the tree of life", "eating" simply means 'partaking thereof'.
H398
'âkal
aw-kal'
A primitive root; to eat (literally or figuratively): - X at all, burn up, consume, devour (-er, up), dine, eat (-er, up), feed (with), food, X freely, X in . . . wise (-deed, plenty), (lay) meat, X quite.
Of course, Christ, the tree of life, would not have sex with Eve. Christ knows the plan of God. |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1495
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.68.8.186
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:34 pm: |
|
skooter942000
- Does EDEN exist on Earth today?
Christ is the tree of life. The Cherubims, with swords that go every way like a flame, pass over when they see the blood of the lamb on the doorpost.
See the post on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:46 pm: under WHO IS CAIN'S FATHER? Part I |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.68.8.186
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:58 pm: |
|
watchman_2
So why is eating of the tree of life different than eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and how does the whole thing tie in with christ? They were put out of Eden so they wouldn't partake of Christ and live forever?
So the tree of life would have no physical fruit?
Interesting to contemplate.
It has meant varied things throughout the Bible -- non-Israelite, non-Jew, foreigners, heathens, etc. and Israelite.
The word 'Gentile(s)' is not the rendering in any of these verses. So, when is it rendered 'Gentile' and when is it rendered 'nation'? Rendered by who? I still am looking at the verses and some people may render them "gentile" and others "nations" but it's the same word in the Hebrew so the rendering may be the translators opinion. |
doug
Senior Member
Username: doug
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 72.68.8.186
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:04 pm: |
|
PS
In case you haven't noticed, I don't question you to trip you up or trap you but I delight in searching out matters and scrubbing and scrubbing until I see if there is a clean baby in the bath water or just dirt and in the past I have heard some interesting things from you so I'm scrubbing away if you don't mind, but I tell you if I think you're off. Does my questions stretch your thinking at all or are they just common and or annoying?
(Message edited by doug on January 16, 2007) |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 3160
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.169.14.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:04 pm: |
|
let them explian if the tree was somebody (meaning JESUS CHRIST or the devil) why they grew out of the ground. now when i ask they say i have already been told but i have not for they do not answer the question. |
doug
Senior Memb | |
