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     baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
One of the things that is SO grievous to me is that Mike DOES control the information of what others READ. If it is not in HIS best interest, then he WILL NOT allow someone to read it. I know of a brother who was concerned about the group and wrote a letter and sent it to the “members” of the Indianapolis Cult led by Mike Peters. Mike told everyone not to read it. Of course they “listen” to him HOOK, LINE and SINKER, because he is SO INTIMIDATING. And I KNOW this because of someone who was there when that letter came. They have already SEEN the meanness and the manipulation that he is quilty of, and they don’t want to be subjected to that, SO they IGNORE the obvious. Listen READERS, if you want to “see” the amazing similarities to this group as well as any other authoritarian group, check out the book, Churches that Abuse by Ron Enroth. Although SOME of the examples in the book are extreme, many of the principles are the SAME as what is practiced in Indy. Mike and his little group is without accountability. They would not invite NOR respect the input from anyone other than someone who accepts and endorses HIS teaching. Anyone else is without any value. And his followers are “conditioned” to think the same. We went to “visit” some area churches one Sunday to look for people who look like they were “looking for something MORE”. (I remember one of the elite saying “we don’t want to “APPEAR” to be recruiting). When it came time to “praying” or “standing” or even “singing” for that matter. NO ONE KNEW WHAT TO DO! We all kind of just looked around to “SEE” what someone “acceptable” was doing because we didn’t want to be caught not doing the “spiritual” thing. It even came up in a “gathering” after that. During my post-Indy days, while trying to recover from the spiritual, emotional and mental trauma that they caused from their abusive tactics, I found this book in a Christian book store. It’s called Churches That Abuse by Ronald Enroth. There are also books by Ron and Vicki Burks, Damaged Disciples; Recovery From Abusive Groups by Wendy Ford; Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan; Recovering From Churches That Abuse by Ron Enroth; Healing Spiritual Abuse by Ken Blue; there is also a little booklet by RBC ministries entitled How to Identify a Dangerous Religious Group. They (abusive groups) are NOT new and INDY (much to their dismay) is NOT unique. Following are some quotes from the first book mentioned… | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
"Unwavering obedience to religious leadership and unquestioning loyalty to the group would be less easily achieved if analysis and feedback were available to members from the outside. It is not without reason that leaders of abusive groups react so strongly and so defensively to any media criticism of their organizations. Don recalls what happened when adverse publicity about the Community of Jesus began to appear in the media. "We were told in a meeting by Mother Cay and Mother Judy that we were not to read the article in the Boston magazine and the newspaper article because we didn't need to know about it. They said it was all baloney and that we were above all the sort of thing. We would stand for the persecution in the same way Jesus did." | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
"This book is about people who have been abused psychologically and spiritually in churches and other Christian organizations. Unlike physical abuse that often results in bruised bodies, spiritual and pastoral abuse leaves scars on the psyche and soul. It is inflicted by persons who are accorded respect and honor in our society by virtue of their role as religious leaders and models of spiritual authority. The base that authority on the Bible, The Word of God, and see themselves as shepherds with a sacred trust. But when they violate that trust, when they abuse their authority, and when they misuse ecclesiastical power to control and manipulate the flock, the results can be catastrophic. The perversion of power that we see in abusive churches disrupts and divides families, fosters an unhealthy dependence of members on the leadership, and creates, ultimately, spiritual lives of the victims. And victims they are. In this book you will meet some of the casualties of spiritual abuse. They will tell you in their own words why they were attracted to authoritarian religious groups and what the impact of the involvement has meant. They will share the pain of leaving an abusive church and the struggle to readjust to life on the "outside." For many of them, life is an all-encompassing Christian environment has been so devastating that they find it difficult sometimes to read their Bibles, attend church, or even believe in God." "Members of all abusive churches soon learn that the pastor or leader is beyond confrontation. As one former member of an abusive congregation put it, 'Since no on in the church was allowed to murmur and complain, or to disagree with the pastor, there were many, like myself, who suffered in silence lest we incur God's anger.' All problems that befall the group are the fault of members who violate the infallible rules. Accordingly, members experience increased self-doubt, helplessness, and insecurity. As Jerry MacDonald wrote in 1986: Oftentimes the deviant is barraged with attempts to get him to admit that he is guilty of crimes that he does not see. If he says that he is doubting the leadership, he has sinned because you are never to doubt the leadership. If he has talked to someone else about his concerns, he has sinned because you are never to plant "seeds of doubt" in others' minds about the leadership and/or the sect. If, however, the deviant does not agree with the definitions of his behavior that is placed by the group, he is immediately considered "unrepentant" and "unsubmissive." The ultimate form of discipline in authoritarian churches is excommunication or disfellowshipping, followed by strict avoidance procedures, or shunning. As MacDonald correctly noted, "Once the deviant is labeled as factious and is denounced, he is cast aside as thoroughly as one would throw away a dirty diaper.[the deviant] is no longer considered even to be an exmember, but a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is referred to and looked to as how not to be." When a rebellious individual leaves an abusive group, he is labeled as a traitor, a reprobate, a sinner, a backslider, or in the case of Set Free Christian Fellowship, an "outlaw." The congregation is told to disassociate from such persons. "Friends of long standing will ignore him. They will turn their faces away. They will go to great lengths to avoid him. They will walk on the other side of the street, hang up the phone, or not answer the door." | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.175.244 |
Baxter, How sad and how true. I saw people from Mike Peters' group (columbus, oh)after I left, at the library and they ignored me completely at a face to face two foot range! How sad. I was mostly sad for them. They'd even trained their children how to shun and frown at people who left the group. Some of the children acted terrified. Only one person came up and said hello and he is one who they question anyway. If you don't seem to be super passionate or gung ho they put you in the unspiritual or questionable category. I now know that a few other people saw me over time and fled before I saw them. What was my sin??? No one ever told me. I had left the group and got back together with my husband, that is the "crime" I had committed in their eyes. Leaving is equal to walking away from God in their eyes because they are "it". | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 113 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
To my shame…I was one of the ones who ignored "graceisenough" at the library. I heard she got kicked out and we saw her there with her children. My face tingled as the panic ran through my body. Our baby started crying right when we walk around the corner, so we dashed out of there before we were spotted by the "rebellious sinner". No hard feelings "graceisenough", I was deceived.  | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.175.244 |
No hard feelings at all. -- I am sorry that I hurt you and your wife over the years. I am so thankful God brought us all out and all is healed. My hope is for other relationships to be restored, especially the broken marriages. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 330 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Thanks Baxter for sharing of this revealing book. Tim and Elizabeth, my heart was blessed by you. This that you have done here is a great example of the love Jesus said we would have so the world may know we are His. It is great to see reconciliation like this in Jesus name. I agree with you in prayer that we may see more of this as others are freed and marriages restored. May God break through with His irresistible grace that no man can keep from another as God moves Sovereignly. And may more be granted the sight to step out of the darkness of legalism "into the glorious liberty of the children of God". denny.elslager@gmail.com Please move us to prayer, oh God... | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 331 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Just something to think about while things are quiet… Memory lane… Or is it memory pain? Does any one here know that Mike was a very irresponsible leader (as if this is new thought)? He actually "let" me sing 2 songs before the whole group in Indy at a rented building where many of the musicians came to share with everyone. And remember, I was (and according to them I still am) a rotten, rebellious, filthy, vile sinner. Can you believe this church leader “let” me sing songs --which I wrote prior to Indy-- before the whole group? This is one "document" they may "really" have on tape. And maybe I'll find my copy yet in all my many cassettes. What was he thinking? I’m guessing some of the leaders may remember this. I’m sure my room mate, Dave W --the other computer wiz-- did. For he also sang a song which had the same tune and many of the original word’s of the Elton John song “Good bye yellow brick road”. Also, John L sang with me. I’m sorry to say that John was probably hardened toward Christianity, possibly due to the legalistic pressures of Mike. And the last I’ve heard he is an atheist now. It’s no wonder that someone could be an unbeliever when --in Indy-- they don’t believe in the True Power of God’s Grace through Christ to save and keep you. Here is most of one of the songs I sang: There’s a fire burning deep within me. This is a fire of the Lord’s Love. He’s burning up the chaff within me. Just making sure this is His own Love He’s making sure this is only His Love I know, I’m not forsaken. I know, the Lord is near. This life don’t have to be shaking. I just remember that the Lord's all I fear. The Lord is all I fear. Oh Lord, You are all I fear. He is with me in the fire. He is with me when every thing around me is shaking. My Lord is with me. Yes, there’s a fire burning deep within me. This is a fire of the Lord’s Love. He’s burning up the chaff within me. Just making sure this is His own Love He’s making sure this is His own Love. Trouble comes, and tries to take me!… under where I can’t see. I call His Name, and Jesus will save me! His Words True, He’ll rescue me. I’ll know the Truth, He’ll set me free! Set me free. He’ll rescue me. He is with me… in the deep waters! Oh, He is with me… when I can’t breath. My Lord is with me. I know He is with me. Oh, I know You’re here Lord. In my troubled times I know You are with me. I know You’ll save me. I know You’ll rescue me. For You are always with me. I know You’re with me. Yes, I know You’re with me. Never leave me or forsake me. After I sang this song, a Steve W came to me and said something. I recall him as one of few Christians --another was David T-- in Indy whom I sensed had some real fruit of the Spirit in his life. He seemed honest and very sincere as he told me that that song had him know a real burning of chaff in himself as I sang it. I count this song as a blessing from God to my life at that time. For God used it’s words and meaning to have me know that Jesus was with me as I faced the assault of Mike’s attacks. Jesus Christ set me FREE! And some other good news is that God used me and some other friends to assist Steve W to be freed as he too started knowing the Truth which sets us free from the chaff of lying legalism that promises liberty but brings far more bondage. Steve returned to his wife and children of whom Mike was influencing Steve to pull away from and nearly promoted a divorce in this case also, as Steve’s wife was not “for” Indy. GOD BLESS! AND MAY CHRIST SET MORE CAPTIVES FREE! PRAISE HIS POWERFUL NAME, HE IS OUT TO RESCUE MORE! | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 114 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
The sad thing is I have heard of people who have turned their back on God because of the warped teachings and misrepresentation of Jesus. Mike Peters has spiritually abused many people, some of those whose faith is ruined till this day. | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.175.244 |
I have been seeing the same thing, Tim. Many peoeple have not made it out of Mike Peters teachings with their faith strengthened. They have wrecked the faith of those who needed to know of God's grace. We are saved by grace through faith! Not by doing everything Mike says to do in his multiple daily emails. I believe that those who are reading this who are still listening to or reading Mike's teachings who will find freedom if they stop with the teachings. Do a test. Find out if you are addicted and controlled, lay the teachings down. Find out if you can be inspired by the bible. Even if you receive the multiple emails from Mike, try to resist reading them. Feast on the pure word of God. Remember to let the Holy Spirit be your teacher. If you are one who walked away from God due to the abuse of Mike's doctrine of works and judgement, please believe that Jesus is real and He can be found. He is gentle and full of mercy to take us back. His grace is sufficient in all things. Ask Him to separate the lies you learned from the truth of Who He is. He will reveal Himself. If anyone wants to talk enelson8735@yahoo.com | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.225 |
I remember a brother there that was asked to leave and he recounted his thoughts to me when he was asked to leave. He thought, “It’ll shipwreck my faith”. It was heart wrenching to know the unhealthy dependency the group has over one’s soul. If I were a betting person, I would “bet” that not one of those people who are still there could have a functioning healthy existence “separated” from Mike Peters. They would not have the spiritual “confidence” to have an existence with Jesus ALONE. It would be difficult for them to not live a life of condemnation if they were separated from the group. They would have NO trust of anyone else’s words or relationship with God because they would view them as being in a position of compromise, especially if they met in a building. Their ability to think critically would be gone if not severally damaged. Making decisions would be agonizing. Knowing when to do something, where to do something, who they should do something with, would be arduous without having the “input” of Mike and his clones. They are SO conditioned to “ask” or “run their ideas by someone” and living life of total dependency upon Mike and his teachings that they will have to struggle mental and emotional insanity, doubt, fears, paranoia, faithlessness, trauma, etc., if they found themselves without their leader or his approval. Mike has successfully chipped away at any TRUE spirituality in a persons life that they can’t even stand with Jesus ALONE, they have to have MIKE and those adherents of his in order to stand. Without him or them, they will crumble. And because it is difficult to hang on until you see things clearly again, many, in self-preservation, will turn away from God all together because it’s too painful to deal with. As it said in that book: They will share the pain of leaving an abusive church and the struggle to readjust to life on the "outside." For many of them, life in an all-encompassing Christian environment has been so devastating that they find it difficult sometimes to read their Bibles, attend church, or even believe in God." | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.225 |
What I shared above is my own difficult experience. I have NOT read this book in years, and after writing above I went to look some things up and this is what I read… “’I feel lost. I don’t know where I’m going; I don’t know what I’m supposed to do; I don’t know what I want; I don’t know who I am, and I want to know who I am…it was just like one morning I woke up and collapsed….I don’t understand why it seemed to work before, and why it’s not working now. There’s a lot of confusion…And I want to tell you something about my husband--He’s gone. There’s not anybody there in him--he’s a void. He just can’t communicate…. A lot of my life’s gone…a great portion of it is gone….’ As Beth Farrell described her exit process from Hobart Freeman’s Faith Assembly, it almost seemed as if she was trying to retain her grip on sanity. Having lived for several years almost entirely enveloped in Freeman’s anti-intellectual, isolationist, name-it-claim-it subculture, she, her husband, and their ten-year-old son were in agony as they attempted to return to normal society and regain some sense of themselves…. …At this point she feels as if she is ‘leaving the truth…leaving the Word of God…leaving everything, and there’s no Christianity outside. I guess that’s why I feel lost. I don’t know where I’m going; I don’t know who I am.’… …Unfortunately, not only is guilt a terrible burden, but there is a lack of trust toward anyone who is a religious authority figure. …Beth wants to speak to someone who is “safe,” but she is unable to trust her own abilities of discernment and evaluation since they were so long labeled as unspiritual. Consequently, she says she ‘goes into these periods where all I’ll do is feel like I’ve died.’… | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.225 |
…Beth, having stifled all of her maternal affections over the past ten years, is not even sure if she knows how to love her son. … …Beneath the insecurities of all the sociological and psychological changes that Beth and her family have experienced are the shaky underpinnings of a faith in God that is no longer firmly anchored. Theology, doctrine, and works have been ends in themselves over the past years. Although Faith Assembly motto is “God is faithful,” the out-workings of that motto required an unswerving and unquestioning obedience to Freeman’s doctrines and beliefs. So the “overcomers’ and “manifested sons of God’ of whom Beth and her family were supposed to be a part, have experienced neither freedom in Christ nor liberation from the oppressive works-not-grace orientation. Restoration, after experiencing the effects of an abusive-church situation, can be a long and painful process. This can be true even if the exposure to that influence was only of short duration. Individuals have even been devastated after only a few short months. Much assistance from family, friends, and the church is needed. Beth and her family were for over ten years exposed to toxic faith--the sort of abusive religion that made them sick. But now they are beginning to receive the help that they need. They are rebuilding relationships and addressing such practical issues as insurance and health care. And they are in the process of finding God again--in a new and different light.” Sorry for such a long post, I’ll give it a break and later I will post on some things that people who have been abused need. This was from Ron Enroth’s Churches that Abuse. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
Wow, guemaj8h, that reminds me of this post I posted almost a month ago. Although, like you said, it doesn’t compare to the PHYSICAL suffering of torture and death that your friend endured, but emotionally, mentally, and physically, there are similarities. Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:33 pm: Extended Families… Thread “You know, graceisenough, I wish I could say that when I received those letters, everything changed, but it didn't. I needed them, I needed to hear them, I was as thankful for them as I could be at the time, and YES they did ring true, but I still suffered severely mentally, emotionally, spiritually from being in this group. I hadn't realized just how deeply. Trusting people that weren't Mike's clones was difficult. It was hard to think that anyone outside the group could be in a stance other than compromising. I had to learn how to think all over again. Being there affected my ability to think "critically". It was difficult to solve simple problems. I couldn't go to the store, fix a meal, talk to people without a sense of condemnation and uncertainty . I would equate it with being in a concentration camp, or a POW. When you are released, you have to learn how to integrate into the "REAL" world again. You have to learn how to disassociate what is true from what is false. What is God and what is man, or in this case, Mike. How do I view people, church, life, God. When you live in a place where you can't make those decisions for yourself, you are SHOCKED to get out and REALIZE that indeed you didn't come to any of your own convictions, but theirs, and now WHERE do you begin. Reading the scriptures was difficult at that time because all I could hear was Mike's voice of condemnation, praising God was difficult because of "no sing-a-longs". "Church" was difficult because of condemnation if it was "attendance-based". Life was difficult. I felt many times the only way to avoid condemnation was to be dead. But God has proven to be ever by my side and eternally loving and patient as he helps me to heal, even when I couldn't trust or didn't trust. I still wrestle with things, but now as the Word of God once again can bring the encouragement that produces hope, I press on.” | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
More from Ron Enroth’s Churches That Abuse: “As one can see from Beth’s case, leaving an abusive-church situation can be extremely difficult, calling into question every aspect of life members may have experienced for the period of time they were involved. I want to discuss the range of emotions and issues that ex-members may face when they exit an abusive-church situation. Then I will provide a general overview of the changing experiences, feelings, and needs that emerge over the course of weeks, months, and even years after departure… Many have described the aftermath of abusive-church involvement as comparable to that of rape victims, or the delayed stress syndrome experienced by war veterans. It is recovery from what might be called spiritual rape. You feel like something has been lost and you will never be the same again. Initially, victims may have a total lack of feeling regarding their experience. They may not evidence pain, anger, sadness, or even joy at being free…Whether or not they show any emotion, victims are in great need of empathetic, objective individuals who will not treat them like spiritual pariahs or paranoid storytellers. The events they have just been through are as unbelievable to them as they are to their listeners. They have experienced great social and psychological dislocation. An open attitude on the part of friends, family, and counselors greatly assists the healing process… | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
Victims are extremely vulnerable at this point. They have come out of an all-embracing religious environment where there are no grays, only blacks and whites. While members of authoritarian groups, they have had to put aside their old relational and coping styles and learn the ones acceptable to the group. Often these are antisocial and confrontational. And coming out of a context where they developed strong dependency needs, they are extremely suggestible and vulnerable to those whom they feel they can trust, whether counselor, immediate family member, or pastor. Betraying that trust can wreak havoc on them… Feelings of isolation can be devastating, especially for those who have walked out of abusive churches on their own without any support. Victims may feel a sinking sense of loss and be unable to relate to other people, even in the midst of a crowd. They are lonely and alone. Very few can understand what they have been through. As one woman describes it, “The complexity of the experience is so great that it is impossible to adequately communicate it to someone who has not gone through it.” Vietnam veterans have expressed very similar feelings… It is possible, though difficult, to come through such an experience without a support system of any kind. However, victims who have not had the opportunity through a support system to sort through their varied emotions, thoughts, spiritual confusion, may end up with deep, unresolved hurts. The development of a new social-support structure, therefore, is crucial.” I believe the greatest remedy is for the individual to know they are loved my ultimately God, and to know the TRUE love of His children. 1 Cor 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. Victims are extremely vulnerable at this point. They have come out of an all-embracing religious environment where there are no grays, only blacks and whites. While members of authoritarian groups, they have had to put aside their old relational and coping styles and learn the ones acceptable to the group. Often these are antisocial and confrontational. And coming out of a context where they developed strong dependency needs, they are extremely suggestible and vulnerable to those whom they feel they can trust, whether counselor, immediate family member, or pastor. Betraying that trust can wreak havoc on them… Feelings of isolation can be devastating, especially for those who have walked out of abusive churches on their own without any support. Victims may feel a sinking sense of loss and be unable to relate to other people, even in the midst of a crowd. They are lonely and alone. Very few can understand what they have been through. As one woman describes it, “The complexity of the experience is so great that it is impossible to adequately communicate it to someone who has not gone through it.” Vietnam veterans have expressed very similar feelings… It is possible, though difficult, to come through such an experience without a support system of any kind. However, victims who have not had the opportunity through a support system to sort through their varied emotions, thoughts, spiritual confusion, may end up with deep, unresolved hurts. The development of a new social-support structure, therefore, is crucial.” I believe the greatest remedy is for the individual to know they are loved my ultimately God, and to know the TRUE love of His children. 1 Cor 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. | ||
| guemaj8h New member Username: guemaj8h Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 85.214.71.55 |
sorry -- i had to delete and repost -- My friend was in a Kumar Rouge prison camp for 3 years. Their are similarities to my psychological experience in Indy. Yet, this comparison doesn't go as far as death and torture and would be unfair to the people who suffered harshly in Cambodia . Indy's divisiveness and legalism was and is bad, but the comparison go as far as death and torture. There was one entire year I was there that I wanted to take my own life. Only the fear of God's commandment "do not murder" kept me from doing so. The bar for Mike's approval and thus others seemed unattainable and always shifting. For reasons never told to me, the tide changed and circumstances got better and I pulled out of my despondent state. Even after my friend was liberated and came to the USA, the Kumar Rouge's conditioning caused him to distrust everyone. He could not even trust his own brother who saved his life by carrying him across a minefield when he was too weak to walk. Several years were required for his mind to untwist the thinking even after walking free in America. The prisoners were so afraid of losing their life or family they feared everything and everyone. He said that once they were in a completely broken state of mind they would do anything they were told to do -- and they did. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
I didn't mean to say PHYSICALLY in my post above in response to guemaj8h. I apologize. It should have read... "Although, like you said, it DOESN'T compare to the PHYSICAL suffering of torture and death that your friend endured, but emotionally, mentally, and PSYCHOLOGICALLY, there are similarities." | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
guemaj8h, So you were part of the group? Did you get kicked out or leave on your own. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 332 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I hesitated to post this not being sure how many would see what I’m saying. But I believe it may help some understand more of the effects of a false and perverted system of abuse. The boys in the following story were abused and beaten down enough to believe lies about themselves. Though they did not choose this belief it was forced upon them by others in a place of authority over them. We just finished watching the movie called “After the Promise”… It really makes me angry as much as it makes me sad. In the movie, the man’s wife dies because her religion told her not to go to the doctor but just have enough faith. He is left with 4 young boys which are taken from him by a false and perverted social system. The father was restricted from knowing where these boys were, and the boys were told by those in authority over them that the father didn't really care for them (similar to how Peters paints outside family members of his following). You’d have to see the movie to know all that the boys and the father went through before reuniting many years later. We just found out that this is a very hard to find movie and rather expensive for an older movie if you do find it. If you have seen it then you would understand the similarities --to a group like Indy-- of the mental and emotional abuses these children endured and the bad effects it had on them for years. The boys were placed in abusive institutions which made them think and believe they weren’t normal or capable. These children could have lived a normal life void of these events if they weren’t sucked in by a false system (just as some children or family members are in Peters group by no choice of their own). As it was with these children, so it is with people caught up in the “system” of false and perverted beliefs set up by Mike Peters or any other cult leader. The Holy Scriptures make it clear that children of God “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” and “by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil”. There is no “other” way to mature in Christ! We all have heard testimony after testimony that Mike and his following are without really knowing God’s Grace as spoken by the founders of our faith. And knowledge is withheld from the followers, of which God could use to set them free. For they are refused the Whole Truth and restricted from “the key of knowledge” of the benefits of grace freely given in Christ Jesus to God’s born again children. This is why I believe MP has no true faith in God or Christ Jesus, because he must control all the knowledge permitted in the minds of his followers and will not give them the chance to grow in any way but his own likeness. And as we have all heard and some have witnessed, MP is very ugly in spirit and nature as he is reproducing his zombie-like clones. He has with him --including those under him in leadership-- baby Christians who can discern nothing spiritually for themselves but must have the knowledge of Mike --their god-- for all things pertaining to lifelessness and godlessness. They are all sleeping and trained to keep their blinders on so as not to see the Truth around them. For his followers to bear witness to the Truth is likely what Michael H Peters FEARS most as he knows they may escape from his grasp! He seems to do all he can to keep them in the DARK as they walk in the light of MP's likeness. As the movie which I mentioned made me as angry as it did sad, so I have a burning in me which wants to see these people freed from the lies that have held them captive for so long. THEY NEED GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH TO SET THEM FREE THAT THEY MAY FREELY GROW AS GOD’S CHILDREN INTO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST ALONE! denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.77 |
I thought I would take the time to look over posts that I never read before and I came across this by amazed_one. He revealed a twist in the scriptures, below his quote, you will see what Jesus REALLY said... amazed_one New member Username: amazed_one Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 69.47.8.77 Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 8:35 am: As I began to be frustrated with a life that never really bore divine fruit and with relationships that had the same temporal realm shallowness, I became aware of a different emphasis in the teachings of Jesus and the writings of the Apostles. Jesus said, “If you obey to my teachings, THEN you are My disciples, Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” Amazing! Knowing truth came AFTER obeying. John 8:31 ¶ So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you CONTINUE IN MY WORD, {then} you are truly disciples of Mine; John 8:32 and you will KNOW the TRUTH, and the TRUTH will make you free." AMAZING! | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.77 |
Indianapolis group--also Columbus, OH has an anniversary coming up. It's truly amazing that all this began because on February 26, 2006 one man asked a question... Then Den and Jen found this page, and although I'm sure onetimeposter meant this an entirely different way, but... onetimeposter New member Username: onetimeposter Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 24.192.78.89 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 3:23 pm: "Certainly, we feel badly that you found out this way. BUT PLEASE CONSIDER IT SOVEREIGN,…" It's NO DOUBT they want this to go away, especially Mike, but it's my prayer God will keep it alive to accomplish what He wants to accomplish. onetimeposter New member Username: onetimeposter Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 24.192.78.89Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 7:05 pm: ...In Jesus, Dan P.S. HOPEFULLY THIS THREAD CAN GO DORMANT NOW. As you mentioned, there's plenty of information available on the AllAtHisFeet site. And as you found, there are people on the other end who can answer questions. Again, thanks for your efforts in clearing this up. onetimeposter New member Username: onetimeposter Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 24.192.78.89 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 5:12 pm: Can we grow up and cut this stuff out? This thread can end, now, or continue until Jesus comes back and Cleans it up with His winnowing fork against all of this utterly destructive conjecture and gossip. WHAT DO YOU SAY, LET'S END IT. | ||
| getagrip Intermediate Member Username: getagrip Post Number: 398 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 72.64.146.249 |
"It's NO DOUBT they want this to go away, especially Mike, but it's my prayer God will keep it alive to accomplish what He wants to accomplish." Hey, no offense but objectively I think that calling what you do on Factnet part of "what God wants to accomplish" is a little delusional. Trust me, He does NOT need you or Factnet to "accomplish what He wants to accomplish"... In fact, using your "logic", the fact that the Indy church is still in existence would be "proof" that in His Soveriegnty, He has allowed it to remain open. Find a scripture about not thinking too highly of yourself and apply it in context to the world as God sees it, your role within, Mike Peters and Factnet... Seriously, you're worrying me. PS MERRY CHRISTMAS!! Jen, Den, Den, Dan, Chris, Mike, etc. God Loves You and Wants the Very, Very Best for You in 2007!!! | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Hey, getagrip... Thanks for the Christmas greetings; though some of those you gave them to do not observe it... I'm not sure exactly what you are saying to baxter, and I think perhaps you have attached an ego problem that doesn't exist. My thinking on what baxter is saying is that God uses people to accomplish His will. Nothing more. Of course He does not NEED any one of us to accomplish His will, but the fact remains that He uses people. There's no ego in knowing that. And the fact that Indy is still in existence means precious little when you remember that to the Lord a day is as a thousand years. He does things in His timing. We have heard from many people who have been helped to see the truth by this board and the http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/welcome.aspx site. God IS using this board and the people like baxter who post here. If we follow your logic, then why does anyone do anything in His service? Merry Christmas to you too, getagrip. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.236 |
Thanks joythruChrist. I love you! As for you, getagrip, no offense taken. However, there are several people that have been hurt by this Indy group. Are you aware of that? Were you ever a part of it, or affected by it in ANY way? Have YOU been a victim of mind control, or brainwashing? Have any of your loved ones been affected by a group that has such control on them that you can’t even communicate with them? Do you think THAT’s God’s will? If God should so happen to WANT to use Factnet to reach people that need to be reached, is that okay with you? You can’t put Him in a box. It seems to ME that he has wanted this to exist, and following your logic, I guess if factnet “STILL exists would be “proof” that in His Sovereignty, He has allowed it to remain open.” Where did I ever say, God needs ME? I am just thankful, VERY thankful to Jesus that there is NOW a place where people can go to express their experiences and HOPEFULLY expose a dangerous group under the authority of ONE man with ZERO accountability. I have prayed for this for a LONG time, and God doesn’t always answer in our timing, but in His own. And it appears to be an answer to prayer. I do NOT take this lightly and am VERY prayerful when I come here and prayerful in regard to what God wants to accomplish. In regard to MY worrying YOU, what SHOULD worry you, is the fact that Mike Peters and others like him are controlling the lives of God’s people in an ungodly way. After all, that’s what factnet is ALL about, people in bondage to some kind of unethical behavior. And if that’s not your concern, WHY are YOU here? Baxter | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.236 |
God sure does have a sense of humor. Considering the context of what was just written in response to gettagrip, at the VERY SAME time my response was posted, this comes in from Sofia a NEW Poster... Posted by sofiarza on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 6:41 pm: Well, where would I begin or even think I could add, to all of the words I have just read??? Praise the Lord! Yes, that is where I must begin! Praising HIS name, for He is my savior and in Him, all has been accomplished. Think I should take that as His encouragement? | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.236 |
BTW, Hi, Sofia, glad to hear you are FREE! Baxter | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Love you too, bax!  | ||
| gottapost2 Junior Member Username: gottapost2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 128.2.141.33 |
Reading this today: Psalm 130 Out of the depths I have cried to You, O Lord; Lord, hear my voice! Let Your ears be attentive To the voice of my supplications. If you, O Lord, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You, That You may be feared. I wait for the Lord, my soul waits, And in His word I do hope. My soul waits for the Lord more than those who watch for the morning. Yes, more than those who watch for the morning. O Israel, hope in the Lord; For with the Lord there is mercy, And with Him is abundant redemption. And He shall redeem Israel From all his iniquities. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 333 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I really hope this reasoning helps someone to be more freed by the Truth. The following are excepts from my newest blogpost: If you aren’t aware yet, Mike Peters --a cult leader in Indianapolis-- and his crew have taken a number of worldly songs and applied new words and meaning to them. Though it is becoming increasing clear that what they mean within these songs is not what it seems upfront. For many who have been there before now believe that when Mike's followers speak of God or Jesus, they have Mike Peters in that place of authority in their minds. And when they speak of the Church or the only true Christians they are actually meaning only those under Mike’s legalistic thumb. What about movies? Let us take an example of the movie The Matrix. Mike Peters and his company, and even some well meaning Christians will look at this movie and see what they believe to be some spiritual parallels or symbolisms in our faith. Though the movies origins (screen writers/producers) are likely unsaved, ungodly, and even demonically inspired. And some ideas in the movie are from New Age, Zen, or Buddhist thinking in its origin. Consider this question and the answer given by a maker of the film we found as we researched the web: Question to The Matrix film maker: “Did ideas from Buddhism influence you in making the film?” WachowskiBros: “Yes. There's something uniquely interesting about Buddhism and mathematics, particularly about quantum physics, and where they meet. That has fascinated us for a long time.” Yet, Christian believers draw from it meanings that they believe are in line with truth in our Christian faith. Personally my wife and I didn’t even like the “cleaned-up” version of the movie though I believe I can understand some of the thought processes in Christians as they look at it. We didn’t like the loose morals --which is something the NT actually does say we as believers are to avoid-- in the manners and dress of the actors. Regarding the appearance of a decorated pine tree or any other so-called idols, God did say “we know that an idol is nothing in the world”, yet He did not say there is no such thing as sexual or other moral temptations like lying or stealing or ignoring truth because “it's not really real” for Christians. I do see how a perverted mind --as Mike Peters teaches others to have-- could look at this movie and its ideas and believe they could do anything immoral they wish if they just believe right. For many of us are certain that they practice lying with no evidence of conscience, and God knows what else they practice with this? This movie is a danger for those who don’t pay attention to every Word of God to avoid the snares hidden therein. I do not care to see the follow-up movies nor do I wish to watch the first one again. But I will follow that by saying I believe it may be possible for some to see this movie and discern right from wrong as a Christian. For we are at liberty to do this --as with songs-- if it isn’t an occasion for selfish flesh or an occasion to twist the Truth of God’s Word by ignorance to fit your own agenda. More on this here: http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/12/matrix-greatest-love-of-all-and.html I see this as a prayer for us in the New Year: “And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.” (Phil 1:9-11) denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.227 |
Mike, one of the things you were continuously stressing was that if someone there brought something to you, and especially if it were two people, you better hear it as coming from the Lord. Whether YOU saw it or not didn’t matter, you had to listen to the ones bringing something to you. Tell us here on factnet how come that DOESN”T apply to you? I know that people were troubled by your being drawn to golfing,they knew that if it were anyone else there would be a problem. It wasn't about it being golf, but they knew if anyone else were the ones who liked golf as much as you did, and say it wasn't you, then there would be a problem. So in their admirable attempt to approach the unapproachable it was brought to you, and YOU could give some kind of excuse. Had it been someone else and NOT you, there would be no excuse, they would have golf idolatry. If someone felt they needed to spend time in their Bibles alone, they would have been rebuked for being "hyper-spiritual" and using it as a cover-up for not "seeking first the kingdom". Being the unaccountable leader that you are, being the intimidating leader that you are, what choice does anyone have but to bite the bullet and sever that part of their lobe in their brain. That manipulates, twists and distorts truth, a form of mental manipulation. I know there were people that wondered why you did so much with the single sister and were approached by that, again, you have some kind of reason or justification why you do not have to respond to what anyone has “confronted” you about. If anyone else has a hobby or interests, and someone comes to them, they either have to give it up, or they NEED to find ways to do it so they are NOT alone. Would you deny this? What’s more, would you affirm this? Did you know there were people who “whispered” why you never took your wife on “mission” trips? You took other people and other MORE “spiritual” women than you took your wife. The women you took were just as intimidating in the group as you are. Others were afraid of them as they were afraid of you. And people were indeed and still are afraid of you. They are afraid of you as an abusive father. Does that PLEASE you? How can you read these posts on factnet and not be heart broken to see what you have become since your “humble beginning”? Has your conscience become so severed that you cannot hear? Are you SO deceived and delusional that you are incapable of really knowing TRUTH anymore? I REALLY don’t expect you to respond or appear on factnet again until you have something ugly to say. But we here are intent on getting through to those whom you have shut off from information that could break the spell and control that you have on them. You won’t let them be IN the world but not of it by your OWN rules and regulations. How can you live with yourself, REALLY? You speak as though you are God’s gift to humanity and to “CHURCH”. But that’s okay, because even as you and Chriso and if there is anyone else condemn everyone here and express how we are going to stand before God on the day of judgment, the SAME holds true for you. Rom 2:3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same {yourself,} that you will escape the judgment of God? Rom 14:10 ¶ But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 149.9.0.59 |
Amen Baxter, For those of you who want to find the truth, just go to www.allathisfeet.com and/or email allathisfeet@cs.com your questions and concerns. I encourage people to see for themselves. Ask them for the most recent uncut audio teaching tape and what year it was made. Ask if Mike has ever created a fictitious email to himself using a fictitious woman named "Mary". Then proceeded to respond to "Mary" to create some kind of precedent law or command for behavior. Ask if it is possible to view the website www.factnet.org or www.indianapoliscult.com from most of the members' computers. Ask what the doom prophecy concerning Mel Gibson (blood money from Hollywood) was, but ask why Mike personally endorsed the Passion of the Christ. (On tape also) Ask for the audio teaching tape that has the prophecy about all dominations going to hell, literally by the name Baptist, Methodists, Presbyterians, ect.. Ask about the rainbow revelations he has had over the years. This was special revelation about where the church would be set up at and in what city. Ask why the church in Columbus was founded in a very high class golf course community. http://www.turtlegolfclub.com/ Ask in totality how many people have been ex-communicated and never returned to fellowship. Ask why boys from 18 to 20 have to go to college together and take the same classes. Ask why unmarried women of age must live in a "harem" type situation. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/harem | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.55.254 |
What I want to know in addition to all of those excellant questions from Danrepent is what is the divorce rate in Indy??? Mike is always talking about the divorce rate in churches and pointing out how terrible they are. As if he is so high above all that. This is another Indy double standard. Is there anyone that can tell us how many divorces there have been under MP teachings? How many families have been torn asunder? I would like to clear this up because I may have the impression of too many or there may be more than I think??? I hope not. | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 4.225.105.153 |
Graceisenogh: When I was personally in touch with Mike, about 4 years ago, he often bragged that they have had ZERO divorces, as well as zero unwed pregnancies among their teens, and other similar ways of being perfect. I coined the phrase that Mike and his followers are proud of their "holiness statistics". In fact, they use their perfect stats to contrast with the awful divorce and pregnancy statistics in other "attendance-based" churches. The truth is, with their often-used tactic of pushing wives to WITHHOLD AFFECTION from their God-given husbands, they seem to be attempting to push these husbands into divorcing their wives. I have personally met 2 of these husband victims, and I know of (at least) 4 others. In one case, they were successful -- in desperation, the love-starved husband succumbed to divorce. When this happens, the wife is then free to follow Mike Peters and raise their children in the same way. At the same time, the group's "holiness statistics" remain pure -- THEIR follower did not initiate the divorce, but was instead a victim of divorce. So, Graceisenough, I don't know their "divorce rate", but I'll guess they'll say it's 0%. When they do, keep all of the above in mind. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.225 |
Well said, cult-fighter! Mike IS very prideful of their “spiritual statistics”. But what the world and those interested in what’s going on in Indy doesn’t SEE is that it’s all brought about by an intense fear of authority and the tight reigns by which the people are controlled by. It isn’t the work of the Holy Spirit. I received this quote from a letter that Mike had written to someone in response to his being an apostle… “> 3.) Since you brought up the issue of apostles, however, I would be remiss > if I did not at least say a little about what the Scriptures teach. I know > that you know that Paul to the Romans (10:15) made it clear that no man > that has not been "apostalosi" (a verb form of the Anglicized noun > "apostle") will bear fruit for Him. That is, no fruit other than the "wax > fruit" of those converted to a form of religion, but not the Living "white > hair as wool" Christ of God (Mat. 23:15; 2 Tim 3:5). > No doubt you are aware that the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb (Rev. 21:14; > Acts 1:17-26, 2:14, 6:2; Mk. 3:14) represent only a little over half of the > number of men that the Bible calls "apostles." Most don't know this. There > is much more that I could say about this, but I'm sure that you must > recognize this already. When the Bible says a man is an apostle, it does not > necessarily mean the kind that was with Jesus from the Baptism until the > ascension.” So as you can see, he definitely believes he has been “apostalosi” and that HIS fruit is NOT “wax fruit” Even though he doesn’t just come out and say, “Yes, I am an apostle of Christ.“ He is very good at not directly answering a person’s questions. I think he does this for future references. However, since everyone else out in the world produces “wax fruit” by Mike’s estimation, then none of those leaders could possibly be “apostalosi”. And therefore the people out there, the “wax fruit”, are not really children of God. But since HIS followers are the REAL DEAL and he’s the “master builder”, one can only conclude that he believes he’s been “apostalosi” His people cannot have relationships with other “believers”. First they can’t just be out in places where they can meet people. Secondly, they are never “alone”. Thirdly whomever they might happen to meet as they are out huddled together will be held at bay as they are scrutinized and drilled and what have you. Thirdly, if they don’t agree with Mike, then they aren’t the real deal and they are living in compromise. Relationship over and out. | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.236 |
Above the "spiritual statistics" should have been "holiness statistics". Another thing, Mike's people don't have an opportunity to "sin" at least outwardly. How can you really know what is in you, if you don't have the freedom to exercise that freedom. They live near each other, so if anyone does something that is considered "sin" by the group, someone is on it in a matter of seconds. Everyone knows what the others are doing. Caring for and loving each other, GOOD. Watchdogging, BAD. But Mike doesn't even have a choice because he has to uphold his "holiness statistics". When you expect or demand or command that you are obeyed because you have a "reputation" to uphold, you get stricter, harsher, and more distrusting and suspicious. | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
We are broken, you and I. You know, the Christian life is not about sin. It really isn’t. That was dealt with on the cross. It was dealt with when you first believed. And yet we have this tendency to live like it is about sin. We seek to be fixed through our spouses, through our friends, through our church. We get bound up in alcohol and drugs and pornography because our brokenness is so profound. We confess our sins…we repent over and over and over thinking this will fix us. It never does. We go to a support group seeking ever greater accountability thinking this will fix us. We plunge headlong into super-legalism, hoping this will keep us in line. Hoping this will fix us. But it never does. It only causes us to live from a heart of fear; fear of being known for who we really are. And it kills the heart. It breeds resentment toward God, who for some reason, we wrongly believe, won’t fix us. We are broken, you and I. Only the love of God can fix us. Only a revelation of love so profound can heal every hurt, right every wrong in our lives. It takes great humility to receive such love. We must first embrace the profound emptiness of our own hearts before we can be fixed. (Message edited by nintai on December 29, 2006) | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
Chris O., I wish you could have just such a revelation of God’s love. Then you wouldn’t recount people’s past sins, for you would know that love covers a multitude of sins. Then you wouldn’t look down on your pagan, unsaved co-workers…because you would consider others better than yourself. You wouldn’t be so quick to invoke the wrathful judgment of God because love wants people to prosper. Then you would stop judging other Christians and other churches, because love is above all things humble and gracious. If you live moment by moment afraid of the next time you might sin, you have not experienced the love of God. Not really. It’s not too late to repent, and no, repentance is not turning away from sin and toward God. The word mean a change of mind, a paradigm shift, a revelation. (look it up in a Greek lexicon) And repentance is something we can’t do on our own. But we can ask Him to reveal himself, we can search Him out with all our hearts. We can humble ourselves. He really wants to love us. And He will. He will fix us if we want Him to. If we let Him. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 138.247.150.254 |
Most people under the teaching of Mike Peters never seem to get the point that we are not what will be. Everyone who trusts in Christ Jesus is secure for sure, but our quirks do not automatically evaporate. Romans 8:23-25 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.236 |
I found this “letter” that I had written to Mike as I was trying to make sense of the hurt and confusion in my soul that I needed to deal with. I had no REAL intentions of ever mailing it, knowing my “fear”. But I wondered what I would say to him if I felt secure enough to tell him what I thought… “Dear Mike, I have some things I’d like to say that has bothered me for a long time. The reason I’m even telling you is because I believe even you deserve to know how you have affected or “hurt” someone you have had under your care. Unfortunately, I fear you are so OVER confident in your spirituality and walk with God and assessments of others that you won’t take an honest look at anything “I” would have to say. First, you wrote a letter that ignited a struggle with a particular sin, something you are good at, provoking others and leading them into temptation, something James said God would never do. My spirit was soft at that time. I openly walked in the light with what I felt in my heart. I was genuinely concerned about my attitude in a particular matter. I called your wife and talked to her about what I saw in my heart. It was a genuine struggle. But I believe also you were attempting to lay a ground work in my life to “establish” your authority in me as I have seen in practice---that people are not only intimidated by you but actually FEAR YOU! You made no effort to affirm, encourage or build me up in faith. You only set out to tear down what was already built and tear me down as a person as I have seen you do numerous times in order to establish your control. I was never confident of your love or the love of anyone in Indy. And if the “greatest show on earth” didn’t love you--you were in major trouble. I had doubts, questions, fears in regard to your group. I was quickly faced with a lack of trust from your followers. Doesn’t love always “trust”? I was literally afraid to ask questions or voice concerns. They were not generally met with patience, acceptance, tenderness, and gentleness. When I was concerned about _______ and expressed that, you blew-up in my face and told me it was because I was so selfish. It didn’t seem very slow to speak, quick to hear, and slow to anger. You didn’t appeal to me as a loving father but as an authoritarian. Most of my encounters with you were of a negative authoritarian nature, with little or no investment to really assure me of your genuine love for me. In fact that really describes Indy--because they shall be as their teacher. Why you blew up like you did over ________ (something I said), I still do not know. You have done GREAT damage in regard to my perspective of God. It is extremely difficult to see Him as the loving, patient, and gentle Father I once knew Him to be. You and your group have made it difficult for God’s Spirit to teach and lead and change. You have jumped in and tried to do it all for Him when YOU thought it needed to be done. You have pronounced “encouragements” that have become laws, that any deviations were dealt with…(escorts, going places alone, being in after dusk, what you could or couldn’t wear). It would be said we were “encouraged” to do those things, but then if you didn’t it then became “if not, why not” Thus it was a law and everyone knew they had better follow suit. There is no freedom, no freedom in regard to one day above another, or to have convictions that differ (such as in dress). Much was imposed and much was bound. Anyway, I hope it cannot be said of you--”A poor, yet wise lad is better than an old king who no longer knows how to receive instruction.” I don’t really want to “hear” from you unless it is in love, and I will have someone else read any response you may make first, because if it isn’t in a spirit of love and gentleness, then I am not going to read it. | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
I've been told that I am the person who coined the term "Peterites" to describe the followers of Mike Peters. IF I truly am the first person to use that term, then I am NOT ashamed of it, as I still believe it's accurate. BUT, I want to clarify a possible misunderstanding -- I never meant that term to be offensive or worse, blasphemous! I've been told that followers of Mike find this term "blasphemous". This is because they see the term as substituting "Peters" for "Christ". The word "Christians" was coined in the New Testament to describe "followers of Christ". This has never been my thinking in coining or using the term "Peterites". On the contrary, I was thinking of the thousands (probably millions) of Christians who go by the titles of "Lutherans", "Wesleyans", "Calivinists", and others. Just as "Lutherans" is used for followers of the teachings of Martin Luther, "Wesleyans" for followers of the teachings of Charles Wesley, and "Calvinists" for followers of the teachings of John Calvin, thus "Peterites" is an ACCURATE term for "followers of the teachings of Mike Peters". IF that description applies to YOU, then don't be offended by the term "Peterite" -- it fits!! I hope this clears this up. I don't expect any understanding from either Chris Olive or Mike himself -- both of these dudes are not at all forgiving, and both see evil in anyone who disagrees with them. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 120 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 84.19.182.23 |
Sent to me from another victim of this group: "Discussion of Mike being an apostle and an example of the anxiety and fear that would go through our minds to just do a "simple" thing and how "complicated" life was in the "kingdom of Mike Peters": We ("insignificants") were invited by another "insignificant" to dinner at an apartment of another "insignificant" that for some reason wasn't home, we just used their apartment for the sake of dinner. The "insignificant" who invited us had a "visitor", of all people, over for dinner as well. I wondered, "How could this be taking place? Is it okay? There isn't anyone with any "stature" there? How can this "insignificant" be getting away with this, having a visitor over for dinner with just us and not a "trusted" one?" The normal, expected, "obedient" protocol would have been when we received that invitation, (because this is how things are done if you want to be in Mike's GOOD GRACES) to inform an elitists, or "significant" about the potential event. They would then get on the phone and ask Mike or some other authoritative figure what they thought. They would then get back to us and tell us whether or not it should happen and who should be involved (so much for freedom to just walk by the Spirit if you need to "seek equipping" for every otherwise simple event, which is why people can't trust their God given ability to discern or make decisions since THIS is how they HAVE to live their life in Mike's kingdom), or they would call the person who invited the visitor and question them as to why they didn't "run that by" someone? Or why did they invite US, why wasn't someone of some STATURE included with this plan? Or maybe they would be instructed it shouldn't happen at ALL and the dinner would have to be cancelled. But we went just the same. I knew "WE" weren't "trusted" to "represent" the "church", and feared we might "get into trouble". It was probably a "wicked" (wicked by Indy's definition of wicked) thing on our part to even go to this dinner. What business was it of ours to think we could possibly represent "Jesus" to these "seekers" all by ourselves without a "watchdog", (which later we were told it wasn't a wise thing and we should have had a "significant" there). After dinner we were sitting around talking and this seeker, who must have heard somewhere about Mike and the apostle thing, asked if Mike was an apostle. It wasn't something that "I" had ever heard discussed, so I didn't want to "touch" that question, but was curious myself as to how our host would respond to such a "loaded" question. Our host's response was evasive. Our host said, "maybe the more important question would be 'Is he an apostle to YOU?'" That didn't make any sense to this "seeker" (nor to me) and told our host that he thought he was being evasive. Our host then turned to us and asked if we thought he was being evasive. Honestly I thought, therefore I said, "Yes, you seem evasive about the question." (It NEVER was answered). Later I was rebuked by a significant for not "supporting" my brother for the sake of "unity", even though I honestly believed he was being evasive, and another chip was etched in my decreasing ability to think critically. I asked the "significant" what the answer to that question was. It was not "directly" answered per se`." | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
You know how Mike and Chris O,after coming on with an attempt to tear down a person's character, that they say something like “go into the alleys and streets” and win people or serve them or whatever it is they say about the alleys and streets, in order to make better use of your time rather than posting on factnet and trying to disclose the inward workings of an abusive, controlling group under the unaccountable leadership of Mike Peters? In my time there, we never went into the alleys or wherever to “care” about anyone. Once Mike moved out of the “ghetto” as he boastfully called it and his adherents followed suit, that was no more. It wasn’t like we were busy caring about anyone. Can anyone else concur about this? I remember a young single mom that came to us. She was sent there because someone had contacted Mike after reading some material or something and thought we would “care” for this unwed mother. She came, she was baptized, she got a job at Walmart while others looked after her sweet little girl. I had heard a woman of stature say that all she (the young woman) “ever wanted to do was stay home and hold her daughter” (like it was a “bad“ thing). She was saying that the girl needed to get out and seek first the kingdom. This girl decided she had had enough and wanted to go back to wherever it was she came from. Mike at a meeting boasted of how we took her in with nothing and how she went home with a truck load (or more?) of stuff. That’s how it is, every “good” thing you do for someone gets thrown back in your face if you don’t adhere. Her name began with a V. We went downtown once. We really didn’t “do” much else, there was too much wickedness out in the world. We pretty much just stayed in the camp and just kept "watch dogging" each other and serving each other, but you always kind of felt like there were “strings’ attached. And it seemed more of a “look at me” kind of thing than out of genuine love. I guess that’s why the Lord said in 1 Cor 13:1-13 “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have {the gift of} prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed {the poor,} and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. ¶ Love is patient, love is kind {and} is not jealous; love does not brag {and} is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong {suffered,} does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. ¶ Love never fails; but if {there are gifts of} prophecy, they will be done away; if {there are} tongues, they will cease; if {there is} knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. Out of 25 years and still ticking ask how many NEW believers they have gained and changed their lives? I know Mike says it “isn’t about numbers, but holiness” but in that length of time, they should have converted from darkness to light people who know nothing of the Grace of God, rather than just those who are already Christians looking for a deeper relationship with God. They can get that from the scriptures and walking with God, you DON’T have to be associated with Indy to get that. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Baxter, What about that ghetto thing? I heard that they moved in and then they moved right back out. How long did this phase last? I also heard about the drunk that Mike found in the alley next to his house. Was this the ghetto neighborhood? | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.227 |
I don’t know how long that phase was, I’m sure there is someone out there that has more knowledge of that. It doesn't seem like it was too long a time. It was a low-income, higher crime area of the city. Like an older "downtown residential" area, I don't know that I would have actually called it a "ghetto", but Mike did. I knew of (for certain) the Peter’s, B&JF, D&DL, S&CE lived in that area. I don’t know who else. I do remember seeing some “pride” about the willingness to live in that environment as a testimony of how “spiritual” and “sacrificial” they were. | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
It's one thing to believe in the concept of unconditional love and another to live that way in practive. The unwed mother in baxter's post above is case and point. She was given conditional love and rejected it. God's love is SO much bigger then any of us realize. He wants to love us without expecting anything in return. Can you grasp that? Love with no expectations of anything in return. Anything less and it wouldn't be unconditional. That kind of love just flys in the face of our experiences, both in giving and receiving love. Indy is all about love with strings attached; I'll love you, but you've got to show fruit. You've got to seek first the kingdom. If you don't...then I can't *afford* to love you. How totally ironic! God's resources come to us in advance paid in full. The decision to remove the unfruitul tree is God's, not ours. We stand in the place of intercession, begging God for another year, another chance for things to turn around. People know when your love comes with strings attached and they resent it. What kind of testimony would our lives have if we could receive that kind of love and give it in return without expectation. Do you think people would *want* to seek first that kind of kingdom? (Message edited by nintai on January 04, 2007) | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
"Fear not..." says the Lord. Over and over again we're encouraged not to fear. Perfect love casts out fear; do not fear those who can destroy the body only; God has not given us a spirit of fear. And yet... The doctrine of the Church in Indianapolis says the world is a fearful place; yes, even our own hearts. Therefore, we must take extreme measures to guard against the world and our own hearts. Children are taught an unhealthy fear of strangers. Women fear men who are not part of the Indianapolis Church. Men fear the influence of Mike Peters over their wives and children. Everyone is afraid to be alone. Everyone fears Mike Peters. Everyone is afraid of getting kicked out of the group. Everyone is afraid of sinning. It's a paralyzing fear. You can't live your life moment-by-moment afraid of the next time you might stumble, the next time you might sin, the next time your "true" self might become known to another. Such introspection produces the opposite effect. It shackles the heart and prevents us from living full-bore for God. It robs us of joy. Christianity was not meant to be a burden. It was not meant to be a complicated thing. There are good things in our hearts. If not, how could God give us the desires of our heart? 1 Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. Beloved, don't let Mike Peters and crew torment you. If you still struggle with fear, I pray the day comes when you can stand up straight and look Mike Peters in the eye, knowing beyond all knowing that you are a child of the most high. | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.77.157.232 |
Amen! Jesus is bigger than our fears! We cannot allow fear to rule ever again. When I think back to the fear that Mike uses to munipulate and the way everyone functioned in the group I can't help but see the lack of faith in a MIGHTY GOD!!! Thank you Nintai, may God's truth prevail! HIS perfect LOVE casts out fear! | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.227 |
I sent the letter that is following to individuals in Mike’s empire about 4 years ago. I doubt that many had the chance to read it before Mike caught wind of it and told everyone not to. This reflects MY own experience in this empire. I made only a few MINOR changes from the original for clarity sake, mostly, and added the last paragraph… “Mike Peters and his elect have come between you and God. They have become mediators. They have replaced God’s voice. You hear what you think is God’s voice only in light of Mike’s teachings and instructions. It is no longer on the solid basis of the word of God. Thou shalt fear the Lord thy thy God; Him shalt thou serve, and to Him shalt thou cleave. That fear you feel everyday, it’s Mike Peters and his eyeballs in others. It is his wrath, his humiliation and has nothing to do with God. It is bondage and slavery to man. Do you feel the freedom to move, or to go anywhere apart from the group? NO! And if you were to do that it would not be a pretty sight. You can no longer trust the voice within you, you can no longer make a move without approval from the group. You are trapped, unable to escape without feeling condemnation or fear. That is NOT God! What once was a joy and delight (i. e., serving God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength; and with all your mind) has become a burden and an arduous task. You do it to please man and have lost that conncection with God. Where once you could freely talk to people and share the Lord with them and the Word of God, you have become enslaved and in bondage. You say only what would be acceptable and praised by the group. You don’t share God anymore, you don’t share your joy and enthusiasm anymore because you don’t have any. | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.226 |
You are not truly happy. You are trapped and suffocating. The people you are with are the only people you are going to be with the rest of your life (at least, you think, if you are to remain true to God--but it’s not God you are being true to, it is Mike Peters and his beliefs to which you are in bondage. You don’t even have a belief system anymore, it has been buried beneath Mike’s rubble). You do not have the freedom to move about--you are NOT free in Christ. They have you brainwashed to doubt your motives, to doubt your ability to hear God. Now you can ONLY her “him” through the group and you are afraid to do otherwise. You CANNOT have a mind of your own anymore. The reason you doubt and have NO confidence is because your mind has been reprogrammed and brainwashed to think like they do. You think THEIR thoughts before you do something. God is not YOUR God anymore. They are. Think about it. What enters your mind before you make a decision? Whose thought are you thinking? And e-mail maybe, or a tape you listened to? Rarely is it ever GOD, or His written word. Those days have been buried. You need to leave. You need to get out of there. You will not begin to see clearly again (although I know you think you do NOW) until you are FREE! And it will take a LONG time to wipe their poison and twisting of scripture and their going BEYOND what was written from your mind to where you can hear God again. OH to hear HIS sweet and lovely voice. Right now, where you are at (under the rule and reign of Mike), “god” goes around beating you all up. In Mike’s realm God isn’t a place of refuge and strength. Let me ask you this. If you ARE FREE, and you have some doubts, would you be ABLE (could you) to just say, “Listen, I have some doubts, I need to get away for a time and think things through and pray. The Lord has said to “test the spirits, to SEE if they are from God”? Would they UNDERSTAND? Would they RESPECT that decision? Could you DO that? My guess is you CAN”T. People, that OUGHT to tell you something. And what’s more, I BET you would be AFRAID of MIKE and his ARMY to even DO that. May God open your eyes!” | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 93 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
To those of us on the outside of this group, we wonder: Why would these people allow themselves to be so controlled? Why are they so defensive of their controllers? A recent news story, about the kidnapped-for-4-years Missouri boy, Shawn Hornbeck, bears some relevance to this. Look at the following story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=429052&in_page_id=1879 In the story, the way that cult followers and young Shawn Hornbeck could defend their controllers is called the STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. "By controlling the victim's environment, movements, access to air and light and meals, by isolating him or her from the normal world and turning a person into a possession, he imposes a severe sensory deprivation which renders the victim malleable to an extreme degree. Hence, their will is subverted and gradually conquered." Look at Chris O -- his will is obviously subverted and conquered. | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
"In reality, the Stockholm experience must work in both directions, and the victim's compliance, his readiness to empathise, his willingness to make excuses and protect, all come from a profound human need to co-operate, to be of service and to help." I think this speaks volumes about why some people stay aligned with them. They truly believe they are aligned with something good. joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 125 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
I knew a couple that has basically been ex-communicated for years (going on a decade or so). They live in the same neighborhood as the cult church, but are not included in the “daily life”. They still wait and hope that “one day” they will be included. Their dream is to be with Jesus and his fullness, which is the “church” in their minds. They have isolated themselves from family and neighbors who warned them about this group. They wait, wait, and wait on to be “joined” to Jesus. Now they are in their 40s with no friends, no fellowship, and no fun. Only guilt and shame for not accomplishing what “should”. | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.54.90 |
As we who have been set free from this cult live our lives it can be easy to forget that there are many out there suffering. They are suffering the damage of Mike Peters' graceless teachings and exclusive shunning practices and brainwashing techniques. I also know of this couple Danrepent is speaking of and have heard the terrible things that have been said about them as to why they aren't included. When someone is in the state of mind of complete submission to Mike via tapes and emails it is easy for that person to doubt their standing with Jesus due to exclusion by this group. I have seen this first hand in the above mentioned couples' life. Although they have little or no contact with anyone in the group including Mike, they will defend him/them to the end. They, like many others, have equated this group and it's teachings with God Himself. This group is the god of many who are involved. It was once the case for me also. Let's keep praying for their freedon in Christ. | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.41 |
Mike Peters is the “Simon Cowell” of Christianity. ( So what do you think Mike, should we let them through to the next level? Well Andy, their performance just wasn’t good enough. Molly, what do you think? No, it didn’t do it for me. Nick? It just doesn’t seem REAL enough. Sorry dude, you’re not through.“ ) We had extended family members who tried to warn us that we were involved in a cult. They told us that Mike Peter’s was our “god”. It was obvious to them that we didn’t do anything without approval from him. My children once said to me, “If Mike says it is okay, can we do such and such?” That was really telling to me. Even though I never said anything to them that would even envoke such a question, they could SEE the truth in our actions. Out of the mouth of babes. | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Baxter: I wonder what you were watching last night! How evil -- to be watching TV, when you should be out "seeking first the Kingdom" (sarcasm). This couple that DanRepent & Elizabeth speak of illustrates another sad truth -- there are many, many ex-members of this cult who are out there, getting almost zero Christian fellowship. Even if they now see that this is a cult, they're still indoctrinated that "no other church is good enough" -- all those other churches are "leavenous" or "attendance-based". Of course THIS, by definition, is one of the key things that makes Mike's group a CULT. Exclusiveness. Baxter, did your children call him "Mike" or "Mr. Peters"? | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
As I was praying and considering some things tonight, it occurred to me that since Mike is a man who MUST be in control, who cannot tolerate disobedience, (I think more from his own control stand point than because of Christ) if there were to be many of his followers to come to themselves in REALITY and not under the spell of the mental manipulation induced by Mike’s teachings, he would become a man of great instability. He THRIVES on the power he has over a person’s life. I believe he would become increasingly unraveled. He has SO evolved into a place where ABSOLUTE adherence to what he says is a MUST! How GRIEVOUS! His teachings for “me” have so distorted the simplicity that is in Christ. I was reading Ephesians tonight and I read this portion…”Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (Eph. 4:1-3) Brothers and sisters, I still wrestle to have this heart of love and patience and kindness and acceptance. Pray for me as I strive to find God’s heart. I hurt, so deeply. | ||
| scannyd Junior Member Username: scannyd Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Yes, I think if people disobeyed him he would be out of control(so to speak). This is what alarms me about what many of these cult leaders have been led to. If you have watched any of these cult specials lately then you see that alot of times the leaders strike out in violence when the control is lost. I saw that Jim Jones had people shot in the head if they would not drink the poison. What were they to do at that point? It was too late for them. We must keep praying for those under his control that they would be free in Jesus. Danielle | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Pray for me as I strive to find God’s heart. I hurt, so deeply. Baxter, you are prayed for and you are loved... | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 335 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
My question is…How many of us are still in there? What do I mean by that? We can all recall how we thought back in the days when we were involved with this cult. The questions we were afraid to ask (which of course I wasn‘t so afraid and that got me in trouble fast), the doubts about the legitimacy of Mike Peters and his staunch followers, the inconsistencies, the elitism, and the list goes on of the thoughts we each struggled with as God was opening our eyes to the lies. However long the involvement or the time since that has passed, the number of us who have since located Factnet to share our testimony and give serious warnings is most likely just a portion of the total who have realized the error there and since left. How many more are in there -right at this minute- suffering with the struggle of seeing some light about the error they are in but finding it diffiCult by the cunningly controlled circumstances of MP to explore what the real truth is regarding all they have been involved in for however long it has been for each one of them. We are all aware that there must be many in this trap struggling this way. Some like myself who haven’t been there long but saw the red flags flying because I did want to know for sure what I was getting into. Some who have been taken in for years and then realized they have been misled into believing this was what they were looking for but then through time seeing that all along it was the make believe world of a mere man named Mike Peters. To all who watch this forum or come to know of it, and can discern the gross error, lies, and controlling ways of MP… May we maintain a heart of prayer and compassion for those who are in the shoes we were once in there. May we never forget the grace and love that God has shown to us as the Lord faithfully provided some way of escape and then took care of our lives very well since. May we be there for those who will need us when they too are freed from the mental and emotional tyranny they are told is “the only true kingdom”. May they be graced by our God to see how awesome our Lord is and how He has been quite Sovereign over His own Church even with all her faults. May they realize that our God does not want false christs leading his children by vain and puffed up visions of perfection into a legalistic bondage of control constructed by men and void of God's grace. Like MP’s control to force the naïve and innocent to fit into his little kingdom dream or pay the price by being slandered, libeled, and maligned. This trick of Mike’s is wearing out as the public -including more of Christendom- becomes more and more aware of it’s falsehood. The strength of this prized weapon of his is waning fast. The more he does it or has it done the more it loses the ability to mislead others. We all know well that Mike will send out severe attacks -one way or another- on all who show resistance to this manipulation of his. God is using our lives to His glory as we submit to Christ Jesus' Lordship through grace and mercy. Friends, families, neighbors, strangers, and foes can know we are His as they see we love others and live by grace through faith the life He has called us to in His Holy name. May this love be extended to those in need who will yet be freed from the likes of Mike Peters or other controlling, pseudo-Christian leaders, great or small. Didn’t mean to carry on for so long but please don’t forget the one who is hurting in there right now. For there may be many like this who need our prayers now and support later. May we not leave them alone in the merciless and graceless works of Mike Peters. God Bless! denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.254 |
Reading the “Catalyst” teaching of Mike Peters was so oppressive, which so much of how they walk out their DAILY LIFE together is. I have some thoughts about that teaching and if some of you would like to add or elaborate more on this topic or share your experience in regard to this topic, you’re greatly welcomed… I know that somewhere or to someone I shared this time that I had with Jesus before I moved to Indy. What’s IRONIC is that it wasn’t MUCH before. I remember where I was. I was in the dining room of our humble little house. There had just been a series of things the Lord was working His change in me. I can’t even remember what the “issues” were. However, I remember as we worked on those things together, (and without the help of another SET of eyes, I might add), I fell prostrate in my heart and worshipped the Lord. I expressed to Him my gratitude for His Love and Goodness, because He was so patient and loving with me. I told him I was thankful because He didn’t OVERWHELM me, but that He just worked on things one at a time. And he gave me the time for growth. We NEED that communication with Jesus and His Spirit. Contrast THAT with the “Catalyst for Change” in Mike’s teachings. Mike Peters is determining HOW LONG it should take for someone to grow in any particular area. And what does it do? It produces FEAR, a sense of being OVERWHELMED, and PARANOIA. None of which are the fruit of God’s Spirit or in line with His character. He said His commandments were easy and His burden LIGHT. Doesn’t sound like we should be OVERWHELMED, AND WEIGHED DOWN. We don’t need someone looking over our shoulder and watching every move we make. If there is something that you observe, then love that brother or sister and be in prayer about it before the Father. I don’t believe you need to confront something on every little thing in someone’s life, you need to leave room for the Holy Spirit to DO HIS work in a person’s life. And who is MIKE to say how long something should take? He ISN’T GOD. It ISN’T HIS CALL! Listen to Mike…“But I'll tell you what you'll never get sick of, if you are true disciple of Jesus. That is, bumping into people constantly, night and day, night and day, night and day, that want to help you become more like Jesus... that can help expose things in your heart... that can essentially be a catalyst to the Journey we are on towards Jesus and "on earth as it is in Heaven!" A catalyst in a chemical reaction is, of course, when some chemical is added to another chemical reaction that is added to speed up the process. The chemical reaction is going to happen anyway. It may take 3 years, but it's going to happen anyway. If you put these certain chemicals together, things are going to happen. When a catalyst is added, the whole process SPEEDS UP (emphasis mine). Something that would have happened in 3 years, now takes perhaps 5 minutes. That's what living close together, and attempting to get employment together, and doing the "mundane" things of life together does for us (amongst several other wonderful things). It is a catalyst in our growth towards the Father, as well as precipitates a glorious opportunity to show all men we're His Disciples by the love that they observe that we have for one another. This physical proximity in daily living (neighborhoods and work place and evenings and travel and errands and _____!) brings us into situations every day (Hebrews 3:12-14 commands it anyway) that are a catalyst towards all that we live for anyway.” | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.101.241 |
God was working in my life before I went to Indy and I KNEW it. We interacted with each other. I received CONVICTIONS. His Spirit was leading me and guiding me into ALL truth. Then enters Mike’s twist on God and what He supposedly wants. It is the single most destroyer of faith. For now, under Mike‘s “spell” , I don’t hear God, too many things come slamming at me and now it is as if the Lord doesn’t work anymore. Think back to a time when you would be reading your Bible, or (Mike forbid) hear a “sermon”. Do you remember the gentle convictions or “illumination” that you would receive and the freedom you had to CHOOSE which way you would go? The living and Holy God touched your heart, His spirit interacted with your spirit and it brought JOY and DELIGHT to your soul. Maybe it was something you needed to wrestle with, but God wasn’t standing over you with a club waiting for you to jump through the hoop and he didn’t withhold his affection from you. He waited as He watched you GROW in GRACE and knowledge of HIM and HIS will!. He loves you and you are valued, for the very hairs on your head are numbered. Mike reduces you to someone who is invaluable and insignificant in the sight of God that YOU cannot possibly HEAR His voice and that‘s why they make you dependent on them. Under Mike’s teaching we no longer operated under the gentle control of the Holy Spirit, but by what OTHERS are telling you DAY after Day after Day either personally or through teaching what God is saying. There is no longer a peaceful rest in Jesus and His finished work on the cross. Under Mike’s teaching you aren’t even sure of your convictions about anything, they have been uprooted. Now, when someone tells you something, there isn’t that “agreement” in your Spirit as there was when it WAS the Holy Spirit, so you feel resistant, which leads you to think it is because you are rebellious, and your eyes are NO longer on the Savior that bought you, but on the twisted perverted words of Mike’s authoritarianism teaching of God and His will. It produces spiritual paralysis and numbness of heart and soul and mind. Notice the FRUIT that Mike’s ways produce in this question found on Mike’s yourkingdomcome web site in regard to children… Question 1: Sometimes when I'm with others and my child misbehaves or has an "attitude," all the sudden I feel like I'm being watched to see how I'm going to handle the situation. I feel like I'm on stage or being critiqued or something. Why is that? Well, you are sort of being watched. That's kind of our job, isn't it? I don't in any way mean that we're being "policemen" to one another. {THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT TURNS OUT TO BE! WHY DO YOU THINK THEY NEED TO LIVE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER? BECAUSE THEY DON’T TRUST THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN DO AS GOOD A JOB AS THEY CAN! THEY HAVE TO POLICE EACH OTHER, AND THEY DO!} But, because we love each other, isn't it our job to be covering each other's blind sides? Isn't that part of walking in sensitivity to the Spirit - listening for the heart of things, noticing things and responding to them together? In those situations where some issue comes up with your child or whatever, you should expect that others might have input and welcome that. If you are seeing this properly, of course, you are grateful for input. You want Jesus' standard and you need the EXTRA EYES AND EARS (emphasis mine). You need the gifts of those around you, as you are striving heart, mind, soul and strength to honor Jesus, right? If we are "baptized in the Spirit" - then, by definition, we will say, "I have need of you!" according to the apostle Paul (1 Cor. 12). | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.101.241 |
John 15:4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither {can} you unless you abide in Me. 1 John 2:24-27 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life. ¶ These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 1 Cor 2:10-16 For to us God revealed {them} through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the {thoughts} of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the {thoughts} of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual {thoughts} with spiritual {words.} ¶ But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. It is JESUS, NOT mike! It is JESUS, NOT mike! It is JESUS, NOT mike! | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
And the Bride said, Amen. *edited due to semantics* (Message edited by joythruchrist on February 05, 2007) | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.5.132 |
BTW, the CONTEXT of the scriptures Mike likes to hang over your head is FAITH, encouraging each other to hold fast to the assurance you have in the work of the cross, NOT picking apart your life about every imaginary and contrived offense. Heb 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that FALLS AWAY FROM THE LIVING GOD. Heb 3:13 But ENCOURAGE one another day after day, as long as it is {still} called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we HOLD FAST the beginning of our ASSURANCE FIRM UNTIL THE END, Who does the Holy Spirit say will disclose the things hidden in darkness and disclose the MOTIVES of men’s hearts? 1 Cor 4:5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, {but wait} until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of {men's} hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. If something is OUT THERE in the OPEN, then Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; {each one} looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. You DON’T go looking for it. Love always HOPES, always TRUSTS. Indy has it the other way around. AND REMEMBER... 1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; bruised.baxter@gmail.com | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.54.90 |
Baxter quotes Mike: "You want Jesus' standard and you need the EXTRA EYES AND EARS (emphasis mine). You need the gifts of those around you, as you are striving heart, mind, soul and strength to honor Jesus, right? If we are "baptized in the Spirit" - then, by definition, we will say, "I have need of you!" according to the apostle Paul (1 Cor. 12). This is so obviously one of the teachings that keeps people bound in fear that if they don't have someone constantly over there shoulder they will fall away or something. This is typical "group think" and cultish control. WHAT ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT? When is He trusted? Where is their faith in God's Spirit to guide us? And what about Paul having the time when he did not confer with flesh and blood??? There is a need for that type of solitude with God. We don't need fallible humans to lord over and control. Human eyes fail. God's Spirit is perfect in every way. God is able! He does not need us messing about in the hearts and minds of others as much as Mike would like. We have need of eachother in a way that NEVER USURPS God's place and power in our lives. Thank you Baxter, and amen to all you said here. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
“Therefore the LORD said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,..” I was looking into a study regarding the matter of us being the clay and the Lord the Potter. Then the verse above struck me as I thought of Mike Peters and his following, or the many other similar cult followings like this one throughout the world today. Mike has learned that certain unlearned people --who blindly follow him and his teaching-- will foolishly fear him through his man-made commandments in the place of obediently and personally seeking the Living God "by grace through faith". They see Mike and he has become the idol for them to worship and obey in their laziness before God. They, of course, would not say this when they refuse to see this. It seems that some find this form of legalism comfortable if it happens to be agreeable to them personally to yield to a man rather than the Lord. For they will not seek God on their own when Mike --and his twisted teachings along with his endless and developing lies which they are blinded from seeing-- can be there for them instead. It takes far more personal sacrifice to honestly take the time and effort to cry out to God and know Him and His Word as a Berean than to follow someone who says they are of God and makes it easy for them. For though many are in there through blind naivety or innocence for not knowing the Truth which sets them free, I believe other may be there because they found someone to tell them every move they need to make to be in this feigned will of God. It is so delusional as they think they are doing God service this way in keeping the “commandments of Mike Peters”. All the while our Lord is grieved as He wants their attention on Him rather than this farce. Though I feel for those who are naïve and unlearned as they are abused under this legalism for now, I fear more for those who are liking this set up with Mike. For when the Truth comes to those who knew no better, they will be freed through knowing the Truth if God would open their eyes. But those who like the personally suitable commands from a man --claiming god status in his demand for obedience-- may be of the hardened clay type which does not yield to the Truth of what it really takes to know God by grace alone in a personal yielding to Him “as a living sacrifice”. May God grant that they come to know this Truth… “For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Duet 4:24) Some other Scripture form Isaiah 29, which follows soon after the above, says more to this matter… “Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel far from the LORD, And their works are in the dark; They say, “Who sees us?” and, “Who knows us?” Surely you have things turned around!” Waiting, watching, praying, denny.elslager@gmail.com I am always available here for questions or if anyone wishes to contact me for anything, feel free. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Another thing came to me after the previous post. I have mentioned here before that I sang some songs in a planned meeting at a rented building before the Indy group when I was there. I gave the words to one of the songs here before but not the other. The name of another song which I wrote at that time was “Give”. It came from meditating on Rom 12:1-2. This is the danger of getting ALONE with God in His Word... You might come to know the Truth! I was reminded of this matter when I spoke of "a living sacrifice" in my previous post. Listen to just a few of the words and maybe you will pick-up on what I believe God was wanting me to realize when I was there… Our hearts, our minds, what are they thinking of? Either we’re really trusting Jesus or our eyes are only on ourselves. What do we think of His Words? Do we really believe? Or are our hearts only playing make-believe and still living religiously? As I looked over those words in retrospect, I now know that they are trained in MP's following to look at themselves --their sins but of course never Mike's sins-- rather than Christ Jesus in the Truth Who sets us FREE from the power of sin. With their lips only, the leaders speak of Jesus Christ. And I came to know clearly, soon after this song, that they are “playing make-believe church and still living religiously". BTW, as I spoke of the other song, this is one "document" that they may actually have on tape. For this really happened, unlike the lies MP has produced without any proof of them not being lies. That's all for now. God Bless, Denny | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
This is from an anonymous friend: "Evangelism" for the saved The whole movement seems to be a 'cocooning' effort -- "The world is so evil -- and so is the church -- that we must insulate ourselves and protect ourselves." The cocoon protects their way of life, shields their doctrine, and insulates them from criticism. This method has worked with a hundred other sects and cults throughout the years. But for some reason, perhaps to gain the acceptance of others, they have the "allathisfeet" web site, which opens the door to the outside and lets all of us see this mystery spot in Indianapolis. But after reading tons of materials, it seems to me that their 'evangelism' isn't to the lost. It's to the 'lost sheep' -- those who identify with churches with buildings and pastors. That's who they are trying to "save" -- and "to hell" with those who have never tasted the Gospel message. joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
I've been told (by a past Peterite member) that they have their own printing press -- not far from their New Augusta Woods commune. Using that press, they print a lot of "evangelical" literature. But, according to my source, over 95% of their evangelism is aimed at the "lost sheep" -- those of us who are ALREADY born-again Christians but are members of "attendance-based" churches. Chris Olive, through his posts, has made it clear that they believe anyone who disagrees with Mike Peters is going to Hell. So I guess they truly are -- in a perverted, twisted way -- trying to "save" us from damnation. | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
That's exactly what it was "evangelism for the 'lost sheep'". When we were exiled, Mike told us to go around to the area churches and drop off envelopes with his material in them: Meetings in His Kingdom, Traditions of Men, Levels of Maturity and the like. He never encouraged us to go to the LOST souls. It also seemed to me, and if anyone else can "relate" to this please do so", you really only got one shot at the "Valley of Decision". After that you were "anathama", I believe that's the word. I recall in a "teaching" of Mike's (so it is probably on record) that Mike said Jesus didn't CHASE after anyone. When the rich young ruler didn't give up all his possessions and follow Jesus, he went away sorrowful and Jesus didn't go after him. That's a contradiction of the One who would leave the 99 and go after the one. Mike made you feel like Jesus didn't value you unless you MEASURED UP. Which is also contrary to the fact that when we didn't measure up ("still sinners") Christ died for the ungodly. I've noticed in many factnet threads where questions have been asked and dialog invited and it is ignored. I'm sure that though the rich young ruler didn't respond rightly at the time, God didn't "give up on him". MAYBE he was this man later after the Holy Spirit had a chance to draw and convict him of his sin and change his heart...Mark 14:51 ¶ A young man was following Him, wearing {nothing but} a linen sheet over {his} naked {body;} and they *seized him. Mark 14:52 But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. bruised.baxter@gmail.com | ||
| scannyd Junior Member Username: scannyd Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Just another example....the prodigal son. It is really hard to mistake(or twist) that one. Danielle | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.254 |
There was something that I remembered today. When I was in Indy and in the midst of the “trauma” and confusion, there was a thought that would often go through my mind, a sort of “heart cry”. It came from the movie, “The Sound of Music” when Maria is speaking to the captain about who his children are. She said, “And the little ones just want to be loved!” That was my heart cry. I was one of the “little ones”. It isn’t that the elite were more “spiritual”, it’s that they had no qualms about watch-dogging and taking things back to Mike for “equipping”. There was a single woman there. I don’t remember the specifics about something she didn’t like. And there was this “elite” one who purposefully "bugged" her with this thing. I mentioned it to her that the other one didn‘t like that. She said, “I know, but she needs to get over it.” It was as though she took some delight in making this woman “uncomfortable”. bruised.baxter@gmail.com | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Baxter said: I've noticed in many factnet threads where questions have been asked and dialog invited and it is ignored. I can testify to that. After I decided there was nothing I could do to convince the general populace that Indy was lying to the max about Denny, I decided to approach them asking doctrinal questions -- all of which were ignored. The only response I ever got was ChrisO saying something like since I so obviously was wrong regarding the scriptures about leadership and scriptures about marriage, that I wasn't worth the effort of setting straight. I even asked for anyone to explain to me where I was wrong and... *crickets chirping* Why was I not worth the effort? I'll never know. They sure know how to fill up screen after screen with false accusations -- but why not a post somewhere to "set me straight"? I suppose that since ChrisO has pronounced his judgment upon me that I am "spiritually blind", I am no longer worth the effort. ========= BTW, Baxter, I love The Sound of Music. And how fitting an analogy! joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| threeseas New member Username: threeseas Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.251.144.185 |
I havent been on this site in awhile. For those who are interested, the Indy infilration in the Columbus Indiana area seems to have cooled down for now..unless anyone else knows any different | ||
| baxter Member Username: baxter Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.226 |
Quote from allathisfeet web site: "This is how all men will know that this is from Heaven. The world MUST see us loving each other. They cannot see through the walls of a room once a week. It is very hard to love one another in a room anyway. They see us loving each other when they see us carrying each other’s loads, when we take care of each other when we are sick, when they see us give each other the best things we have. This is how all men will know that we are His disciples—not just by what we believe, but by how they see us loving each other. This is the call of God for His People today." How DO they SHOW their love for one another when they shut themselves off from everyone and put up signs to show the world that they want nothing to do with them? “Unbelievers” are generally not welcome. They really don’t know what to do with them. When they make regulations as to what stores you can go to and with whom you go with. When they go out to eat, they look at the “outward appearances” of the waiters and decide whose section they are going to sit in. When they huddle together like a train in public for fear they might be contaminated by touching what is “unclean”? How DO they SHOW their love for the lost? I'm still fighting to "undo" the ill effects of being under their influences to the point where I can love the lost (instead of fearing them) and those who are not as "I" would want them to be as I am sure "I" am not as others would want me to be. Luke 6:27 ¶ "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Luke 6:30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. Luke 6:31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is {that} to you? For even sinners love those who love them. Luke 6:33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is {that} to you? For even sinners do the same. Luke 6:34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is {that} to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same {amount.} Luke 6:35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil {men.} Luke 6:36 "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. bruised.baxter@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Just in case you are new to this thread, among other charges against CULT LEADER Mike Peters, he is also a man who has sent many SECRET EMAILS to OTHER men's wives -- strongly advising these wives to WITHHOLD LOVE and affection from their God-given husbands. While his clone Chris Olive (and Mike himself) have sometimes "attempted" to answer accusations made against Mike and his church, they have NEVER even tried to answer this charge. They haven't because they CANNOT! It's indefensible!! Perhaps the most damaging and CULTIC thing about these folks is that they are marriage-wreckers! If you have any doubts about this, go to the subthread "Emails from Mike Peters to other men's wives" for examples. Notice that sometimes Mike will end these SECRET EMAILS with a gooey "XOXOXOXO", which means "Hugs & Kisses". Could Mike even TRY to defend this? These are women who haven't said "I love you" to their husbands in many years - and yet Mike Peters has the GALL to send gooey "Hugs & Kisses" to these marriage-dishonoring wives. The ULTIMATE WARNING: IF you value your marriage, stay AWAY from these people and their heretical teachings. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 338 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I have been reflecting on the past year here. As I think through all I have said here in this past year I feel I need to say more. I know, this sounds like an odd statement coming from me, for I have posted more than most in this past year. And this is part of the reason I would like to leave this post. To the best of my knowledge and God bearing witness with my conscience, I have spoken the truth about every matter which I gave words for here on FACTNet or any other forum. If anyone knows the foundation of these threads regarding Michael H Peters and the Indy or Columbus groups, you would know of the event which really started a broad public exposure of the lies and works of the Indy and Columbus group headed and controlled by Mike Peters. My good and faithful wife, Jen Elslager, has been used by God in this very public forum to uncover the true nature of Mike Peters and his adherents. Up to that point Mike was fairly successful in hiding his works of lying and falsely condemning individuals in more private settings to appear more righteous and maintain control in the guise of being an apostle to the church. When Jen did not choose to be of the sort of women spoken of in 2Tim 3:1-9, Mike Peters and the truth of the secret inner workings of Indy and Columbus--which offers a façade via their websites-- were exposed through the reactive words of Mike Peters, Dan Z, Chris Olive, and some others there. And this exposure may not be over yet. As said, my wife and some others here have been so successful in revealing to the public eye --both the unsaved and the saved-- the duplicity and harmful works of Mike Peters and the real spiritually, mentally, and emotionally perverted and brutal application of Michael H Peters own make of teachings. Many of us have learned that Mike has been very clever and cunning in his ways here, but it seems God‘s Word has come to him which promises “and be sure your sin will find you out.” All that Mike and his adherents have falsely practiced on others is truthfully and justly happening to himself and his more outspoken followers. And the more they have spoken out publicly the more it became obvious to all of their true nature. As has been said here before… They have done more to expose themselves in this matter than all of our testimonies put together. Jen Elslager, Tim and Danielle Dennis, Elizabeth Nelson, Elli, and all of us who have been willing to stick our necks and names out for the protection of others and the defense of our testimony have endured the public lies and assaults from Mike and his more serious adherents for some time now. Even some of those who wish to remain anonymous have also been attacked. Mike and his adherents have offered no repentance of this as yet. My name by itself means little in this matter, but my testimony which bears my name in Christ towards others in this life does have me concerned. They have been told I would not sue but I am certain I could present a good case if I wanted to. I want to state publicly that I believe God will completely vindicate those who are honest in their testimonies in the Lord no matter what lies are plastered on their names. Words here have been laid out for the public --each person searching in it-- to witness regarding the real truth of Michael H Peters and his following. Each of us who have testified against Mike Peters have offered our side of all the various matters brought up on this board and others. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 339 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
After summing up some of this above I now wish to say a few personal things… I will confess --as I may have to some degree before-- that I have not always felt like I have “spoken the truth in love” here regarding Mike Peters and some of his followers. I have in all good conscience before the Lord always spoken the truth to the best of my knowledge. But at the beginning of having my name and character maligned severely here, it was a real test for me and my good wife, Jen. Some of you know that we had just endured being lied about and abused by a local pastor which is what caused me to --I do believe in the Sovereign will of God-- recall that this happened to me just one time in my life before some 14 years before with Mike Peters. More details of our story of this FACTNet involvement is here if you are interested: http://tobysthoughts-jtc.blogspot.com/2006/11/our-story-how-we-really-got-involved.html Jen has been a witness of my life for many years now and even a long season before my experience in Indy. I believe Jen has been labeled as the worst of us here because she has nearly smashed the façade of Mike Peters before the public eye like no other individual yet to this day when she came in direct opposition as a witness to the blatant lying nature of Mike. She has said she would pray for Chris Olive and he --as you witness any of his words-- hates her for this. My wife’s good name has been severely maligned and spoken evil of falsely for the Truth’s sake. She has understandably been hurt by this as so many others who have testified to the many lies and abuses of Mike Peters and his blindly obedient followers. Time has been uncovering one lie after another with the proof. And in time --as God wills-- I do believe all will be uncovered and Michael H Peters will have no more influence over other’s lives to do evil. Meanwhile we pray for all those caught into this bondage. Including Chris Olive who may be so blinded that he knows no better. “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”. If our Lord can say this through the agony of the Cross, and Stephen can say this through the pain of getting stoned to death, then we must learn to say this through the assaults of our names and characters being maligned. If this prevents others from having to go through the pain of the same then we will find --as we have to some extent already-- that it has been worth it all. For the testimony of Truth of the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus is at stake here and is far more important than any of our names being spat upon with poisonous venom. May God bless --with a conscience of their wrong doing-- the men Mike Peters, Chris Olive, Dan Z, and the others who have not repented of their lies and abuses here yet. We are praying for all of you and for those you are misleading into brutal legalism. We understand that it may be true that you do not know what you are doing and that you may truly believe in your hearts that you are doing God service in going beyond the truth that your conscience has to be aware of. For otherwise you are insane, for it seems impossible for men or women to do and say the things you do without some inkling of conscience of it. In spite of all you have done I will say by God’s grace --as I know how much Christ has forgiven me-- that I do Love you Mike Peters and Chris Olive and all of your other people who have chosen to yield to the belief that you are truly following the real God. (Message edited by speakingtruth on February 22, 2007) | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 340 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
One final note for now... God has blessed my wife and I with various new Christian friends by way of this matter here on FACTNet. I thank God that it continually proves true that what some mean for evil God will use for our good in His plan. I am sorry and have been grieved to know that all of you --to one extent or another-- has had to deal with the abuse of MP and his following. But I am glad that God used it to bring us together. From my heart and with grateful affection in Christ Jesus I wish to tell all of you that I truly thank our Lord for bringing you into our lives. Many of you have been rich blessings for us in our walk with Christ this past year. Thank you for your support, love, and prayers. We do pray for and love you and wish to be here for you. I am personally grateful for your helping me see better into the grace of our God regarding being more careful with the way I say things and how far I go. I hope you find the fruit of how God has been using you in this as time goes. And Jen has said over and over again how she is so thankful for you as well. I can’t say enough about this here so I will stop my long posting before I go too far again. Thank you! And may our Lord continue to prevail by His Grace here… | ||
| wordworks2001 New member Username: wordworks2001 Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.58.127.165 |
I am the author of {i}The Ghosts of November: Memoirs of an Outsider Who Witnessed the Carnage at Jonestown, Guyana.{/i} My name is Jeff Brailey. Please google the title or my name to check my bona fides. I would like to interview former and current members cults or alternative religions as for a book I am writing. I have been writing about alternative religions for about 30 years. I approach each group I write about with an objective and open mind. I have written about the House of Yahweh, a religion based in Abilene, Texas that was billed as the "deadliest doomsday cult in America" and after living with the group for about a week, wrote an article refuting that characterization. I hope some of you who have contacts within a group will encourage them to speak with me. My email address is wordworks2001@yahoo.com and my blog is http://novemberghosts.blogspot.com |
