| Author | Message | ||
     missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1498 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.111.197 |
Why I write on Factnet For 40 years I have worked as a missionary. My journey as a missionary has not only taken me to the land of my calling but to most of the South American countries to the Philippine Islands to Portugal, Azores and many other places…mission fields such as Belize have been visited and we serve as counselors to several missionaries on different fields. We serve as counselors to several churches in the USA. Not only has my life been blessed by knowing many “giants” in God’s kingdom I have been blessed to travel with many of them. My home has been graced by some of God’s most noble people that ever walked the face of the earth. One of the most remarkable couples I ever met and traveled with was Richard and Sabrina Wurmbrand, which founded the Voice of Martyrs. There sweet humble spirit and their sufferings at the hands of cruel communist guards and long years in underground prisons made an impact on my life. And yes, they were not from the denomination I belong to! My writing here on factnet has nothing to do with doctrine. Although I have never hid the fact that I am a oneness missionary you will never find me belittling other Christians. You may type my name into search and you will find many articles and churches where I have visited, spoken or showed slides. You can find missionary tapes and listen to my stories and not one time will you ever find me involved in what some call fussing and fighting here at factnet. I feel an awesome responsibility to warn both oneness and trinity folks about HH. It is not because I agree or disagree with their ever changing doctrine and new lights that shine on their pathways that I write here. It is because I disagree with their tactics and I do not uphold lying to folks and tricking them into joining an organization. I do not uphold jesus in the flesh doctrine or their death covenants. I do not believe a person has to go back there to be saved once they have left there. I do not believe their authority message neither do I believe that elders have the power to pick who marries who. I do not believe that everything we do has to be oked by some group of elders. I do not believe in using a horrible accident to claim God’s judgment on someone and by doing so trying to scare others…I just don’t believe in scare tactics at all. I do not believe they or any so called group that separates families is right before God. I do not believe the Bible teaches shunning in the manner they teach it…and on and on… In America I sat down with several pastors and talked about HH doctrine and no one that I talked to agrees to all that made up stuff… I feel like when we talk about what we believe we can be honest about it even if perhaps we are wrong. We are all humans and we could be wrong about any given subject. I have never tried to sit in the judgment seat for I too will be judged according to how I judge others. I depend on many churches of many belief’s to support missions so I would be foolish to get on factnet and talk about some group UNLESS I am certain they are wrong and I see grave danger involved in their teachings. In my work as a missionary it is important that I represent Brazil and the mission fields. HH was a place where I witnessed deliberant lying and falsehood. HH is a place where I meet some of the nicest people that I have ever met yet a people that are so deceived and led to believe they cannot question their leaders and must be in absolute subjection to them by taking every thought (question doubt) into captivity. A people that are so deceived and live a deceived life by a doctrine that is absolutely impossible to fulfill. I traveled with some of the leaders and watched them do things that are taught against. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1499 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.111.197 |
I cannot imagine a true leader bulling God’s people or trying to frighten them by letting them think the judgments of God will fall on them if they leave HH and if they leave they are breaking a marriage vow to God and if they would someday hope for God’s forgiveness they must come back and subject themselves to HH authority since they claim to be jesus in the flesh. Where o where is such garbage written in the Holy book? We all know that Jerusalem was invaded by her enemies, the Edomites "stood on the other side" doing nothing but watching the slaughter as spectators. God said by their failure to act and to help their brethren "even thou wast as one of them" (Obad. 11). I pledge to do my best which is so little but I will warn people of the deceitful doctrine at HH… If my missionary mom were at some normal place I could go visit her but since she is in hh she cannot even call me without breaking the rules. She begged me to accept their doctrine so we could have a relationship....I love her very much but not enough to side with wrong...She knows they are wrong she herself told me that about many things...but "covenant" keeps her there... | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 796 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.236.230 |
"Although I have never hid the fact that I am a oneness missionary you will never find me belittling other Christians." You lose all credibility when you make statements like this. You have done nothing other than belittle the folks at HH since the day you started posting on FN. Sorry, but as of now, I can't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1500 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.111.197 |
Of course other things keep her there...but fear is a great factor at HH...ask most ex members...fear of the POWERS of the jesus in flesh...the seperation of families...the pressure... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 727 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Folks, We see the abject sickness continues. "I do not uphold .. their death covenants." Again we see the sick blasphemy of the opppositionalists. Not one actively posting has shown even an ounce of integrity, they all are supporting this vile, vicious, sick, lying blasphemy. Is this sickness and sin, the allure of blasphemy and demonic phrases, why they left HH ? Probably not all, there could be many reasons. However their silence in the face of this abomination is a stench, and very telling. Even worse is the shilling, the support of this sickness. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| yeoman Junior Member Username: yeoman Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 207.69.137.40 |
Dear Prax, God bless you real good! If your position has Holy Ghost merit, it will stand. Sooner or later. But you do not have to keep beating the drum for support or trying to load up the bandwagon. "In a multitude of words sin is not lacking, but he who restrains his lips is wise." Prov.10:19 I appreciate your desire to bring balance and perspective to bear in these postings. However please keep in mind there are some experiences and actions that simply cannot be balanced or explained away because they are just plain wrong. Also there are perspectives, attitudes, and viewpoints that may well be in error, but verbal bludgeoning will never silence or change them. If ML or FH and you and I were all sitting around a coffee table in someone else's home sharing would you talk like you have here? I would like to think not. I believe you would be an almost perfect Christian gentleman, passionate, articulate but above all-a gentleman. Please, please, please remember these are Christian sisters and ladies you are addressing and there is a way to disagree without being disagreeable. Again, if your position has merit and is sound it will stand. Thank you for caring. Please be more...careful. | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 739 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Yeoman, As often occurs on this forum I appreciate the tone of your post and your willingness to offer some depth to the forum. In general I agree with what you share, or let me say, I would agree .. if it weren't for the D.C. blasphemy. You ask me not to try to call others to account, or to enlist support, or to seek to force a response from folks who have been quiet. I can't do that. The issue is too fundamental. Definitely on a dozen other issues, no problem, but not on this one. There are situations where silence is complicity and culpability and this is one of them. Note, this is not a personal criticism of your posts. You have a history of careful posting and not everybody is expected to respond firstly and quickly to everything. We all have our own timings. And now you have had the courtesy to respond thoughtfully. Remember we went a long time without any 'verbal bludgeoning' .. a long time. Many attempts to go step-by-step, to request, to explain, to give background and analogy, and to document and explain the language some more. None of that really should have been necessary but it was done in spades. And two folks apologized for the phrase (the one from F-H turned out to be facile, superficial, insincere since she ended up supporting the phrase by Mrs. Alvear. With F_H actively coming up with a variety of strange excuses and even ignoring usage documentation and common sense and understanding. The other apology, simple and clear by U_G has stood up to this point and stands as an exemplar). The issue seemed basically closed, the sick phrase was not being used .. we then had a good season during which the question of the phrase was barely alluded to and conversation was much crisper. However there was no cleansing, retraction or apology at all at the primary source, she was likely using the same phrase in other venues to smear, thus the sore was festering, poison was spreading. Then the phrase returned here on Factnet .. with a very sick vengeance and with newfound defensive-shill-support from F_H and diversion-invective support from one other. You ask me to be quieter .. that perhaps the Holy Spirit requests restraint. And sometimes that is the case .. other times it is not .. please consider the watchman on the wall .. is he supposed to also 'restrain his lips' ? Or is he supposed to shout a warning or blow a trumpet only once, and if many in the camp are in slumber, stop and say .. 'well, I warned once, the rest I will leave up to God, maybe the enemy forces will turn away on their own account anyway, or maybe God will strike them down without our action'. Yeoman, I fully, 1000%, see this issue in the watchman category. Whatever ones view of HH, pro, con, neutral, questioning, indifferent or mixed, this is a spiritual abomination attack. It is sick poison almost beyond comprehension. You point out that we could in other circumstances sit and have herb tea such as yerba mate or Teccino and Rocamojo grain beverages mixed with coffee (preferably not instant, siwss-water-decaf is fine, a bit of soy or rice or almond milk only please, honey or agave ok, no sugar or splenda). Wow, I'm picky, maybe you don't want me over ? That is true for most of us here. And we might make some headway. However if a person is really hardened in the demonic-phrase-usage the poison will carry over to the coffee-table. And that appears to be the case, the problem is hardened and calloused and there is a boil that will respond only to the gentle lancing of friends. And the friends here have been guilty of spiritual abandonment. (continues) (Message edited by praxaluh on December 15, 2006) | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 740 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Yeoman, I will continue to consider what you share above. It is by no means my goal or purpose to speak difficult or harsh words to some of the ladies on the forum, Personally, I would much prefer conversations of cordiality, it it were at all possible and still be sensitive to the Holy Spirit. And I hope you will understand my response here. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 361 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.14 |
I write here because God has laid it on my heart to warn others that HH is not what it appears to be. HH has the freedom to believe what they do and people have the freedom to decide whether or not to get involved in the first place; as it should be.. My point is that people should know up front what HH believes and what will be expected of them. They should know before they are there long enough to be convinced that questioning HH authority is the sin of rebellion; therefore the sin of witchcraft. They should know before "taking every thought captive" becomes an automatic response to doubts and questions about what they see and hear going on around them. They should know before they sell their homes and businesses and move across the country to join Homestead. They should know before they take their family in; that if they decide to come out, that there is a good possibility that it will break up the family. The thought that, "We will give it a try and if we don't like it we can just leave," is a misconception. After indoctrination leaving is not so simple; even having thoughts about leaving become as scary as thoughts of suicide. In HH leaving is a form of eternal suicide. This indoctrination is hard to fight. Making a "vow unto death" is a serious matter. In HH their covenant and vow, being spiritual, and being made to God and his body, is more serious that the earthly marriage covenant. But one of our answers to serious visitors wanting to know what HH believes before joining was that you don't know everything about a person before you marry them, and there are some things that should only shared after marriage. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.14 |
Their Gospel is a different Gospel, their Jesus a different Jesus, their salvation one of obedience to men and your sacrifice. The Bible says to obey God rather than Man. I HH you can only obey God if you obey men. In HH you will submit everything to “God's “(?) will and vision as it is expressed by "the proper channels." In HH the sacrificial Body that saves you is not one that hung on a cross in a point in history, but instead it is the sacrificial "body of Christ," and your sacrifice for the vision must be complete and spotless. In HH you savior is not Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father and abiding in you. It is Jesus still coming to you in the flesh through the channels of authority in the Body. Their Jesus is NOT a Jesus that supernaturally by the power of His blood and resurrection and the indwelling of His spirit makes you a new creation; completing His work in you by the same Spirit. Their Jesus, according to their doctrine, comes through a covenant which conforms you into a son of God by submission to the elders. It conforms you by “informing” you, (so it “forms in” you,) the image of a son of God. In order to do this (God?) must completely define the culture through the covenant. In HH this isn’t done through hearts changed by God. It is done with rules called temple patterns and submission to men as God. (Message edited by foreverhis on December 16, 2006) | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 363 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.14 |
Garden of God “A God-centered culture, then, is one that encourages the individual to conform himself to the image of God; this is because the corporate image of the community that rests upon that culture is conformed to the image of God. This image is the image of covenant; for covenant expresses God’s nature---His faithful, eternal love—and thus true godly culture is the culture of covenant. God’s law-Word, which expresses the terms of His Covenant, conforms us to a particular order of relationships, a way of life, a way of seeing, believing and behaving; and from that order, life style and vision—that is, from our conformance to the covenant’s terms—is formed the corporate image that God has ordained for his community. We, in turn, enter into oneness with God by conforming ourselves to the image that He has ordained for us, both as individuals and as a community. Only by conforming our lives in every area to the pattern and way of life ordained by God can we enter into true oneness with our fellowman, with nature and with God Himself, for only this God-ordained culture fully expressed His covenant. And only through His covenant can we know Him. With His Word sown within us, and with us planted in His covenant community and culture, we can become once again the garden of God. We can grow into oneness with the God who is love. And this oneness with Him, as we know, is our salvation.” (p. 124). And, then this quote, “That is, salvation—rests upon information (words, knowledge) that comes from God through the channels of covenant and through which the image of God is formed within man.” P. 125. An oath at Baptism; “We gather here to join in holy covenant unto the Lord Jesus Christ and His Corporate Body. Jesus told His disciples, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them … teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you’ (Matt. 28:18-20). Do you confess that according to Jesus’ words, your baptism is a commitment to His authority, a commitment to be discipled by men He has sent to teach you obedience to His commandments? If so, answer, “I do.” Do you confess at this time the supremacy of the will of God over your life? If so, answer, “I do.” Do you confess that God has an order by which He arranges human relationships so as to express that will” If so, answer, “I do.” Do you confess that you actively seek to lose your own life for His sake so that you might be absorbed into the newness of His life as expressed in His corporate Body? If so, answer, “I do.” Do you confess Jesus’s command to you to become His disciple, and that this means coming as a little child to His fatherhood as expressed through a local body and following the course of instruction He has laid out for you in His Body in order that you might learn of Him? If so, answer, “I do.” Do you understand the terms of your commitment, and do you agree that these terms conform to God’s Word and are not the mere commands of men: If so, answer, “I do.” This baptism constitutes your blood vow to fulfill your covenant commitment to Jesus and His Body and that the term of your commitment is forever. Therefore, if you freely make this commitment according to the understanding of the terms that have been presented to you in written and spoken words, then you may at this time publicly declare from a good conscience Jesus as Lord of your life and your vow of submission to His Lordship by saying “I do,” and we will baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.” Baptism Pledge of Homestead Heritage (Message edited by foreverhis on December 16, 2006) | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 364 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.14 |
Upon taking first communion in Homestead Heritage; "PLEDGE OF ALLEGANCE I hereby pledge from a clear conscience and in the fear of God, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and adjure any higher allegiance and fidelity to any potentate, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen, including myself; that I will support and seek out every truth to defend the Word of God and the ordinances of His community against all enemies, external and internal; that I will bear unto death true faith and allegiance to the Head and true loyalty to the members of this community; that I will pick up the spiritual weapons of my warfare on behalf of the community when required; that I will also perform service when needed; that I will render such service to the community from a heart motivated by my love for God and His people; that I will submit my service to the appointed direction of His overseers; and that I take this obligation freely without any external compulsion, mental reservation or purpose of evasion; SO HELP ME GOD. In acknowledgment whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature." Testing Your Confession of Commitment | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 365 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.14 |
Another thread with quotes from "How Do You Know" http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=177809#POST177809 | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 377 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.81 |
constitution on nembership: Allow me to quote from the last page, “You acknowledge by signing this Constitution that you hold to the Holy Bible as interpreted by the Spirit moving through the appropriate channels of leadership as your ‘curriculum,’ your course of faith, supplemented and more precisely defined and expounded by the interpretation given by the Spirit and recorded in Salvation Is of the Jews; Hallelu Yah; The Garden of God; Covenant Love; The Temple; The Bedrock; The laws of Consistency; The Foundations of the Temple Series, Volumes 1, 2 and 3; The Order of Perfection; The Service of the Temple; The Narrow Gate; Koinonia Covenant Confession; Who Owns the Children?; Wisdom’s Children; Building Christian Character; Beyond Violence; Beyond Pacifism; Culture as Spiritual War Series; Knowledge as Spiritual War Series; Justice Is Fallen; the Koinonia Curriculum and others that might be added in the future through the appropriate channels of leadership per the above, including various specific position and conviction papers, such as those on home birth and home education.” It is not the Bible that is their authority, it is what the leaders say the Bible says as “more precisely defined and expounded by” their interpretation as set forth in their literature. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 378 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.81 |
The nine levels: three levels each with levels Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 4:46 pm by recovering_pharisee: http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=152127#POST152127 Regarding the situational, transitional and constitutional question: Here are some quotes (in green) from A brief Overview for New Patterns for Relationships and our first communion.(copyright 1991 Truth Forum) "The new testament Temple, then, as the Old Testament's has a prescribed way of access and entrance. In the Temple, believers gained increasing access to the immediate presence of God through a series of courts. Whereas only once every year on behalf of all the people could the high priest enter the Holy of Holies, the immediate presence of God, our Messiah has made immediate access available to all by ripping open the veil that prevented us from entering the most Holy place. This is the meaning of the New Covenant: as Jeremiah 31 declares that now we shall all know Yahweh, we shall all enter into direct and immediate relationship with Him. Yet even while this very great distinction exists between the Old and New Testaments, we still must follow God's prescribed path in order to come into this much greater relationship with God" "These three courts of God's Temple relate to a believers growth toward full communion with God's presence." "God has shown us that we pass through three general levels of growth(each of which themselves have three levels) comparable to the three levels of the Temple. John wrote to the little children, to the young men and finally to the fathers(1John2:12-14),and these levels of growth correspond to what we term the situational, transitional and constitutional levels of relationship to the Body of Christ." "These levels of sacrifice correspond to the ascending level of participation in the Body...." (to be continued) | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 379 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.81 |
HH literature quotes continued in green "We see then that discipleship can be seen to ascend through three general levels toward the high mark of our calling. To repeat, to pass into the Old Testament Temple, one had to move through various courts, the outer court, the inner court and then the inner most Holy place of the Temple itself; and in the New Testament as well, we must pass through three main levels on our way to total and complete oneness with God: the situational, transitional and constitutional levels of relationship. The situational level corresponds to the outer court; the transitional to the inner court; the constitutional to the place in which we stand as pillars in the Temple of our God(Rev.3:12). Revelation says that ultimately the outer court has no permanent place in the kingdom of God(Rev.11:2)It is situational, just as a slave who has no permanent place in the family(John8:35)Again, however, everyone in this outer court who walks in faith will find the obedience that comes from faith(Rom.1:4)They will move into levels of sonship, and a son abides forever(John8:35) This sonship is imputed to them if they continue to walk in all the light they have. Each of these above levels in turn also further divides into situational, transitional and constitutional stages that allow a person to grow in mastery of each larger level. We move at first from a situational stage on a situational level to the transitional stage on the situational level, then, all the way through to the eventual goal of standing constitutionally on the constitutional level." “…Jesus said that only a slave does not know his masters business (John 15:15), and Paul declares that only those who are led by the Spirit, have knowledge of the mind of Christ(1 Cor. 2:10-16),have matured, that is, as sons of God(Rom. 8:14). This is why Paul could describe the child as a slave until the time appointed by the Father for him to come to his inheritance of sonship(Gal.4:1-2). The first level of discipleship, the situational, corresponds to this slave stage that every son passes through; he doesn't understand the will of God but rather learns the most basic lessons of submitting to authority…" Our first communion will serve to confirm people's completion of the situational level and their new relationship to the Body on the situational stage of the transitional level of membership in Koinonia Communities. (name has changed to Homestead Ministries) I have tried to be fair in presenting this info. not wanting to infringe any copy right laws however I want to give enough of a passage to give context so that their actual meaning can be understood. I will let everyone who reads this draw their own conclusions and welcome HH to clarify anything that is not clear or if this is not what they believe. ******** This from ForeverHis’ post in reply How many HH members have actually reached "Sonship"? How many are Constitutional? When I asked that back in 1998 I was told by my group leader that two, maybe three people had reached that level; BA, SY and maybe HW. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 380 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.81 |
rbeechner Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:32 am: … here are some quotes from “By What Authority,” a paper written by the founder of Homestead Heritage that deals with the group’s belief that “Christ comes in human flesh” through the authority of their leaders. This is from page 2 of the document: “Listen to His [Jesus’] words, then as recorded in John 5: ‘Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the son.’ That’s interesting, isn’t it? Especially in light of the fact that that God also calls us His sons….Yes, it’s remarkable that Jesus said that the Father…has deposited this judgment in His sonship, in those who have been born of the spirit of sonship, ‘born from above.’” Jesus says what? According to the author, when Jesus says that God gives all judgment to the Son, He really means to His sons, that is, to mortal men who have been “born of the spirit of sonship,” or as it was interpreted during my years at HH, to the leaders of HH. All judgment. Read the scripture and the passage for yourself, HisPromise. Is that really the message Jesus is declaring in John 5? I don't believe it is. Not anymore. I believe the author of "By What Authority" makes a quantum leap here, distorting the Scripture by blurring the distinction between our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the Son of God and mortal men as sons of God and setting the stage for a dangerous deviation from the gospel. He continues: “Jesus went on to clarify that if we don’t honor the humanity in which the Spirit has come, then we won’t honor the Spirit of God Himself: ‘He who does not honor the Son, does not honor the Father who sent Him.'” Notice his interpretation of John 5:23: he now takes for granted that you--the reader-- have accepted his position that the Son--Jesus Himself--is equivalent to God's "sonship," these men, or, as he puts it here, “the humanity in which the Spirit has come.” He speaks of them interchangeably. In John 5:25 Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” This is the author’s interpretation of the scripture, also quoted from page 2 of "By What Authority": “So we must ‘hear the voice of the son of God’ to be raised on the last day, but also remember that He said they who ‘listen to us’ (1 John 4: 1-6) will listen to Him…and, those who don’t hear us will not hear His voice.” Read the statement carefully, HisPromise, and consider the implications. We must hear the voice of the Son of God to be raised on the last day, he says, but only those who 'listen to us' will hear His voice. He stops there, but what is he implying? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.81 |
rbeechner Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:32 am: CONTINUED From page 8: “The Spirit from God must acknowledge that God comes down ‘from above’ and puts his authority, puts His Word, puts Himself in human flesh. If you can truly acknowledge that, then the Spirit that speaks from you is from God; and if you can’t do that, your spirit, John says, is antichrist.” Accept the authority and word of "us," as Christ Himself come in human flesh, or admit your spirit is antichrist. And: “Who are you submitted to--those who speak from the viewpoint of the world…those who come in their own name, their own authority, or those who speak with an authority from above? Notice that the test is whether they will confess that Jesus Christ, the Lord who ‘is the Spirit,’ has ‘come in human flesh’; and this means that they will ‘listen to us.” In my years at HH, the doctrine of "Jesus come in human flesh" was always used in terms of authority and submission. It was used as a tool to justify the will of the leaders and to silence dissent. As I said, I believe it represents a dangerous distortion of the gospel. Luke 21:8 And he said, "See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am he!' and, 'The time is at hand!' Do not go after them. | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 382 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.4 |
THE SACRIFICIAL BODY ******************* Truth_Hunter Posted on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 10:22 pm: emphases added by FH … the position paper on "Communion and Discerning of the Body" on page 1,it says, "Do we still remember the Lord's death, a death into which we pledged ourselves in baptism? Do we still discern this Body, (1Cor.11:29,Mark14:22-24) (now) the sacrificial corporate Body of his humanity that must be offered up unto the Lord and of which we form a part?" On page 2 they say it again, "Confessing this discernment of his authority in the Body goes far in realizing our confession of Him as Lord. In short, do we still see the true nature of that Body in whose flesh He continues to come (2John 7) and to which we originally committed at baptism." I thought this was a great example of not only how the meaning of HH baptism broadens after committing, but also of their view of Christ, "Now the corporate Body of his humanity." | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 383 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.4 |
Part of a post Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 by Truth_Hunter http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=228746#POST228746 “The Order of Perfection” “ God is now again raising up a new Samuel priesthood in the midst of his people; it is coming forth not through the promiscuous fecundity of a church that is entangled in the appurtenances and glitter of the world but through the agony of a church that is today deemed barren. Through this Samuel priesthood, God will pour forth the Davidic anointing, the Messianic anointing of the full measure of the stature of Christ on his Church (Eph. 4:13). (Chapter 9 discusses this further.)” End quote. For those of you who don’t understand what he saying, Here it is in simple plain English; Jesus Christ’s return is going to be through the leadership of Homestead Heritage, and Blair Adams is the Messianic figure. For those still skeptical, lets read chapter 9 where Adams says the five fold ministry (with him as head), is crucially important in God’s work today. Why? Because through this ministry, God will tear down every man-centered structures of authority (That’s me and you) that claims to speak in his name . He is restoring the “ Great authority of his Spirit” to his body, bringing the people into complete submission. Who is this authority? Adams says it is “ The five fold ministry”, the divine order (with him as head). He goes on to say that this order is the, {“Lordship, Headship and the authority of God himself”.} And if we cut our selves off from it , we have severed our relationship with Christ, leaving a void that will create a vacuum to be filled with Satan himself. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1507 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.119.254 |
Prax go join and we would believe your words...I left because I do not believe that sick stuff...I have no desire to follow after something like that. The things posted above are true and much more twisted sick teachings that have warpped peoples minds and caused all the heartache and much more not mentioned on these pages.... I kept telling mom blair adams is not looked up to as a man or a pastor but as a GOD and she would just say he is leading us out...May God have mercy on those poor people... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 764 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear .. "blair adams is not looked up.. (vile Alvear lie snipped)" We see here nothing other than yet another vile blasphemy-lie from Mrs. Alvear. Since the oppositionalists have abandoned their responsibility before God and have not helped her to forsake her fundamental 'death covenant' blasphemy-lie, her tongue is unrestrained by the Holy Spirit and Mrs. Alvear feels 'free' to brazenly lie on other issues as well. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1510 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.80.29 |
my mom knew all that creature worship bothered me...my friend did you ever know any of these modern day prophets that have destroyed untold lives... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 767 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear, You need to forsake what you do above, which is nothing less than speaking a blasphemous lie. You need to stop making such false accusations and you absolutely do owe both the forum and HH an apology. This was even discussed on the forum earlier and the oppositionalists stopped speaking any such lie. Yet yours is even worse than what was spoken back then. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1514 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.63.55 |
You have not proved yet me to be a liar...HH owes a lot of people apologies...but that is their business not mine...I owe no apology to hh...Maybe you should tell us why you don't accept hh into your life????? | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 432 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.155 |
BUMP for Cowboy | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 830 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
F_H, This is a little strange. Why would you bump a thread filled with multiple acrid Alvear blasphemy lies and then finishing with her belligerent arrogance ? That she will not retract her words, and will not offer a simple apology to the forum (and best also to HH) no wonder how vicious and false. And do you really want me to again demonstrate the body of lies Alvear fabricated around the d.c. blasphemy ? Which I have done multiple times. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 438 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.137 |
I bumped the thread because Cowboy was asking about the vows and I knew they were here. There is more going on here than you. Neither the world nor this forum is revolving around your claims of blasphemy. I feel sorry for you, I really do. | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 831 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Anybody who is silent in the face of such lies and blasphemies, or worse, has been supportive and making excuses like F_H, will of course try to handwave the stench. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1666 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.154 |
Anyone who is silent in the face of a cult that separates families and is accused of criminal behavior I would never call my brother or sister in Christ. Prax you have a lot of lies to answer to God for on that day. You YOURSELF could not and will not accept HH doctrine for your life and then you get up here and defend what you do not even believe... You need to dance to your own music instead of lead the simple astray | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 838 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear continues her campaign of villification. Anyway, far better a little junque towards me than her standard litany of blasphemies. However notice the strainedness and strangeness and total unfairness of her words .. Alvear: 'who is silent ... accused of criminal behavior' A perfect example for this forum of the lack of integrity of the active oppositionals here. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1669 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.154 |
Lack of integrity? God will judge me and you my friend. You cannot and will not answer questions or even prove me wrong. I am not unfare at all. Your names you call me do not even matter and really don't even bother me. Many people that read here have known me for 40 plus years...my life is an open book... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 839 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear, anybody here, even some of your comrades, should be able to share with you the abject lack of integrity involved in your 'accused of ...' statement. That is like somebody avoiding HH because they have been 'accused of ...' having a suicide, murder, brujeria 'death covenant ...'. Folks can easily make all sorts of tainted and lying and distorted and skewed and biased and word-parsed accusations. Especially folks with an agenda. Mrs. Alvear, you should seek to regain any reputation for integrity you might have developed over earlier years. It has been squandered, perhaps even lost, by your current obsessive crusade. And such is not easy to regain, calling for an honest reappraisal, a new-found restraint of tongue and foremost a Holy Spirit repentance and cleansing. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1670 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.154 |
My reputation is intact... No one believes you Prax for you are a man of a double tongue... NOt one time have you proved any former HH member wrong... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1671 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.20.154 |
I have no agenda but TRUTH.... You must enjoy the false pats you get on the pact...time will tell a lot of things to you Prax... | ||
| covenantwoman6 New member Username: covenantwoman6 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.195.101.245 |
Prax As I have read the posts for the last couple weeks the same question continues to reverberate throughout my being - Why? You are quite obviously an educated and well spoken man in the natural realm - in the spiritual realm I observe that you have great knowledge of scripture - your ability to apply that knowledge wisely is of some concern but I'm in no position to have a scriptural battle of the minds with you. Back to the WHY? that keeps prodding me......... 1. Why if you believe so strongly in the mission and doctrines of Homestead Heritage Ministries that it compels you to spend time almost daily remarking to that affect on this discussion board, are you not "in covenant" with them, working alongside to see their mission accomplished? 2. Why are you so evasive about your actual relationship with them? If what they do is worthy of your continual praise and defense why the avoidance of an honest answer. 3. Why do your feel the need to continually turn what I read as honest concern from an elder sister who has actually lived with them and observed their "mission and doctrines" around to look like an unfounded accusation? I appreciate your imput on this board but your desire seems to be to readily excuse anything "they" do and quickly turn it, with no solid evidence given, into persecution of the saints (on their behalf). If in fact this is a place to discuss "the facts" concerning Homestead Heritage for the benefit of those having left there hurt and to inform those considering being a part of whatever is going on there it seems honesty would be the only viable option. May God bless you with wisdom in considering my questions. Love in HIM - CW | ||
| foreverhis Intermediate Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 439 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 12.162.187.137 |
CB: I know that none of us are perfect and I am so glad Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins. Amen Cowboy If you get a chance, share the Gospel with your friends at HH. The Gospel itself is anointed. Hearing it again, (from a visitor at HH,) opened my heart, reminding me of my first love. In HH "Grace is just another chance to get it right." (Blair Adams) But we know all OUR rights are as filthy rags. Only the blood of Jesus makes us "right" before the Holy God. Our good works are our response to "Christ in us" willing and empowering us to lay down our lives for the Gospel and each other. They are not our way to Salvation; they are the results of it. That is a truth I let go of while in HH. I lived in fear, that if my sacrifice was not complete enough or unblemished enough, then I risked falling short of Salvation. I never felt I COULD be good enough, I thought others could, but I knew myself. Still I kept striving, and always wondering if I had done well enough each day. I believed that the blood of Christ was my participation in the body and the order of relationships. I believed that the body that was saving me was in the present, “the body of Christ,” HH. HH was the sacrificial body, (see the communion papers and the Baptism papers,) that was to be remembered and discerned. . “This body, (HH) is my salvation.” was a common testimony in HH. It replaced the Body born of a virgin, hung at Calvary, resurrected, ascended and sitting at the right hand of God ever making intersession for us. The “Body of Christ,” that is the church, became more than those believers doing the will of God here on earth. It usurped the power of Salvation, the place of Jesus as Lord in the lives of us members, and the personal leading and authority of the Holy Spirit in life of the believer. It has taken the throne of Jesus, sat on it and said -We are Jesus in the flesh listen to us and be saved, or don't and be damned. Pray for them; because you and I know that the blood that cleanses us from all unrighteousness was the blood of a body born of a virgin, the very and Only Begotten Son of God. May God call those who believed before they went to HH to repentance like He did me. May they know again the Joy of Salvation. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1673 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 200.147.116.167 |
Thank God for the blood... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 840 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Covenantwoman, Greetings. Your thoughts and sentiments above are appreciated. You ask me 3 questions. Please allow me to take them one at a time, starting first with #2 since that has a major integrity component. "2. Why are you so evasive about your actual relationship with them? If what they do is worthy of your continual praise and defense why the avoidance of an honest answer." Covwomen, I really have no idea how you got this. And I can only surmise that you took some offhand nonsense jabs by a couple of the posters as having substance. Or something, maybe private erroneous stuff. I saw one or two on forum that seemed to be meant to try to imply a non-existent situation and of course there is the funny and nonsensical culthugger junque (which I do find humorous in its insipidity). In fact I have gone in a fair amount of depth about my background - when and where I was fully in HH, some visits later, how I got involved in this forum, and how the forum has actually ended up helping me appreciate HH more. Similarly how my approach to the forum changed as I saw some major needs and problems that were being largely ignored. Also how I would have viewed quite favorably a friendly contact network of former member of folks involved, without all the false edges of the factnet milieu and the anti-HH agenda here. And how I was hoping to maybe visit again last Thanksgiving (the last time I had seen the folks was an unusual Fair drop-in visit in 2002). That having passed by, maybe some time in the near months ahead, by the grace of the Lord Jesus.. How friends of mine, both newbies and reconnects, USA and overseas, have visited and shared with me of their visits. Or how other local sweet church folks have kept in touch, planning to visit. Even how I sense the heart of HH to reach out to some early folks who find it difficult to initiate recontact. Oh, I even share about my HH contacts, both friends and ministry, since this whole thing started. Limited, and minimal about forum stuff. And I often discuss the theory that 'it was so different then when you were involved' (used to try to discount what I share) an assertion which is simply not true :-) HH has kept quite a remarkably steady course.  And I go into why I know/believe this to be the case. Apparently lots of folks know who I am, which is fine by me, although I generally keep my full name off the net (something I decided on totally unrelated to HH). My active HH involvement actually preceded the times of most of the posters here so they often will not know me personally. And I don't go out of the way to give the names of my closest friends who helped bring me to faith in the Lord Jesus (HH folks) or things like that. (eg. I remember when this brother __ was earnestly studying the apologetics of the cave of Machpelah and the purchase in Shechem in Acts 7 from the speech of Stephen .. ) In other circumstances I might indicate who I am talking about, however I find most everything gets skewed on this forum so even the 'initials' route I tend to avoid. I did mention my picnic drop-in upstate about 5-10 years back, that was quite unusual and fun. So Covwoman, please.. if you really think there is some kind of evasiveness or lack of honesty in my approach here, I would appreciate it if you would clarify. Either on forum or to praxeus@bigfoot.com . Thanks. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1681 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
go to HH...and practice what you preach... | ||
| covenantwoman6 New member Username: covenantwoman6 Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.195.101.245 |
Prax - I must admit I've not taken the time to read all the posts from the beginning of this discussion board. If, in fact, you've already addressed the things I asked on another thread at another time perhaps I will come across that information in time. I guess if I'm intending to be a regular contributor it would benefit everyone if I were to look back to get a little more history on the folks writing here. In Him - CW | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1683 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
If you will send me your address Janalvear@aol.com I will send you some information you might enjoy...and hope it will be a blessing. Sister Alvear | ||
| pilgrim16 New member Username: pilgrim16 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 72.183.96.81 |
prax, you know that there are two kinds of relationships with people: one is political, which is simply trying to get someone on your side. thus HH will be cordial to people who have left...(I've seen them cordial to people they have tossed out on their ear) but this is a political kind of cordiality. it doesn't mean that give two hoots and a holler about what that person thinks about spiritual things. it simply means that it is to their advantage to treat this person well. they are not looking for true fellowship with an ex member. it is possible that might want this person back, but not necessarily. an ex member who is not actively trying to get back may think, "wow they are being nice to me, I must be doing pretty good, and they seem to take me seriously," but it is a political seriousness and it can be sincere but it has very definite borders and limitations. they are not treating you like a brother. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1684 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
I wish Prax could understand that...but he does not...So smart...to be so worng....sad | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 847 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Covwoman, The concern was not so much that you didn't go back to read the threads. Nobody really expects that and to a large extent I don't even recommend it. My concern was simply how you came to the conclusions that were so negative on an integrity-level, assuming I was 'evasive' and 'avoiding an honest answer' when in fact most everybody here knows I give my background in quite some depth. Now there is a type of disinformation campaign against me which had probably 'helped' you come to the conclusion that I had hid this and that and you improperly assumed it was true. Maybe a lesson to be careful about information sources. e.g. I have pointed out in quite some depth how hypocritical it is to try to use the simple fact that I am outside HH at this time as an argument against what I share. Clearly if I was writing from inside HH the same folks would use that fact as a reason to discount .. brainwashed, etc. Yet the same canard gets repeated daily. This is the same type of lockbox duplicity in argumentation that was used against Jesus and John the Baptist, the sup with winebibbers and ascetic syndrome. They will get you coming and get you going. Now to be clear, I don't really mind the disinformation campaign - as I am here and able to write a detailed response as above when necessary. So not so much junque can be pulled. And anyway the various attacks and aspersions against me are in a sense nothings, the real integrity issue is in regard to the blasphemies being spewed, entertained and accepted by the oppositional group. That is a major concern. Anyway, I will try to get to your other two questions shortly. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 848 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Pilgrim16, greetings. I think I understand what you are trying to say but I also think you are simply wrong. First, unlike many others here lets note that you are acknowledging that HH often tries to keep a cordial relationship with many who have left. This can be contacts initiated by either HH or the person no longer involved, ongoing communication about various matters, greetings and warmth at the Fair, or various other situations. This is not to say that such situations are easy, however they do belie a lot of the agiprop here. Of course the folks writing here are often the vilification people, looking to themselves play maximum politics, so they are an unreliable barometer. A good example of this is the plaints here that run like .. 'Oh, they didn't give me the run of the land, all I wanted to do was give presents and smiles to my friends' as we have heard. Yet spoken from severely disaffected folks who are the most active in every type of anti-HH activity. Now above you try to generally cast any HH concern as simply 'political'. And my view is one of their sincerity and reality. To give a simple example. I know that HH will express a deep interest and concern about folks from whom they have not heard in many years, who may even have been involved in totally different worlds. There is little of politics that could conceivably be involved there yet there is a real Holy Spirit concern, on all levels. Even, maybe surprisingly to some, that the folks are healthy and spiritually touched and involved in solid fellowships. Yet whatever the current situation, their concern in such situations has not seemed to me to have even an iota of politics. We may be talking about folks that only a small portion of current HH folks have seen and appreciated their heart and purpose. Folks on the edge of society yet very much in the heart of God. So again, I can understand your perspective. However I think it is a mistake to try to place the 'political' mask over sincere communications and concerns. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1686 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
lol | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 851 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Covwoman, This question is simple. 3. Why do your feel the need to continually turn what I read as honest concern from an elder sister who has actually lived with them and observed their "mission and doctrines" around to look like an unfounded accusation? Covwoman, I have gone through this in depth, both as to her situation, how it developed, how she felt hurt, and then various misrepresentations she has put forth (including misrepresentating the authorship of a deep letter she received). However none of that is the key issue. When Mrs. Alvear rants on and on, daily, about such as .. 'living dead', 'masons', 'Jim Jones', 'killing babies', 'death covenant', '(leader) as a GOD' .. it is 100% clear that Mrs. Alvear is stewing in her own private realm of 'unfounded accusations'. And worse, the realm of blasphemy as well. (Yes, with both active and tacit support of the oppositionalists here, with one noted exception.) And Mrs. Alvear clearly writes as if any accusation anybody gives should be received fully while adding her own additional spin. 'How could you support anybody who has been accused' - she even writes in such a manner. Amazing. There is no justification, no rationalization, no integrity, in how Mrs. Alvear posts on this forum. None. Her tongue is not restained by the Spirit of God. Whatever discipline and training and sanctity she had received in her years in missions is totally invisible, non-functional. Not once has Mrs. Alvear ever apologized even to the forum (and better to HH) for the vicious, acrid words that she has been speaking daily. Since you have already witnessed a few examples of the above .. I am surprised that you even had to ask the question. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1691 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
lol...you spend your time judging...you would do well at hh go join... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1692 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
Steven Avery knows nothing about me except what he is told...He has not contacted one friend of mine...he could not even agree with art who defend hh... by the way prax...art is doing good... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1693 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
It would seem if HH was such a good safe place Prax would be there...of course he is not...he neither lives what they believe nor agrees with their teachings... | ||
| pilgrim16 New member Username: pilgrim16 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 72.183.96.81 |
prax, I just don't see how all these people who are saying negative things about HH could all be just bad apples. almost all of them (including myself) spent years there. even if their attitudes are wrong that does not mean that they got the facts wrong...maybe some people don't know how to react, but that doesn't mean they are mistaken about the things they are reacting to. It seems you tend to say that if a person is reacting in a way that doesn't seem to you Christian, that they are mistaken about what they have seen and heard. These are two very different things. If someone screams in your face at the top of their lungs you may react in the wrong way but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. If you were on the witness stand in a trial your testimony would not be thrown out because you got upset. What do you think? | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 853 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Hi Pilgrim16, You ask a good question above. The first point is simple. If someone cannot even get the simplest basics right, as in the litany of blasphemies that come forth here, really the testimony of those folks must be considered super-tainted. Thrown out. (Often they are rehashing each other's harshest words and 'testimony' anyway.) Those are the folks yelling the most acrid words (which I won't repeat here) or trying to paint HH as criminals. It is a shame to the forum. You will notice that the folks without the acrid words generally keep their disagreements to a very different level. Something along the lines of : Their doctrine is wrong. Their authority structure is unbalanced or unbiblical. They blew it in this situation. They incorrectly believe they manifest a New Testament apostolic ministry. If folks believe that way, while speaking with a spirit of respect for the really fine and wonderful things and HH, a real heart-to-heart discussion is possible. They are likely to get some counterpoints from me and others - 'hmmm.. have you considered this and that .. what about these verses, are you looking at the situation with balance..' but little fundamental flak. It's a big world, folks see things differently, the realm of Christian doctrine and community is one of vigorous dialog. May the discussions be held with honor and respect, with restrained tongues and appreciation for those seeking to be sensitive to the Lord Jesus Christ. The problem is the first group of people taint the discussion here on this Factnet forum. Dishonor and tinge are acridity are the very reasons for this forum for many. To try to paint HH as some sort of (suicidal, murderous, egomaniac, brujeria, criminal, phoney .. etc) organization. To put it bluntly. In some cases, yes, the underlying situation is likely seeking self-justification - the bad apple syndrome. If you can paint this horrid picture to yourself and others of HH, then perhaps some holiness and sanctity needs that were seen at HH and rejected can be ignored. HH are the bad guys, there is no need for deep repentance & cleansing, I'm ok and your ok. To deny that as a likely motivation for at least some here would be naive. One other point .. all of this taints what is 'seen and heard', the crux of your question. I'll even give an example (one that has not been discussed directly). I remember a situation where a dear person had a very difficult time giving a Christian 'testimony' that was really from God, there was more an attempt to have a dramatic flourishing event. And at HH, as folks know, drama over reality does not go over well. So the testimony could be interrupted, even in a meeting, in a way that could be, in this environment, be written about as some terrible ministry action. (Interrupting a testimony about the Lord Jesus Christ!). Yet all of us there had no doubt at all that what was happening was the heart of God to minister, the Holy Spirit trying to help the person and also to keep the assembly sanctified and true. So many of the 'seen and heards' have elements like this potential example one .. they are being related by a person with an agenda and with a desire to taint, sans context or balance. They really don't have much oomm pahh pah. We have seen an awful lot of that here. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1699 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
lol...Prax you wouldn't last a day as a member of HH..of course we know that... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1700 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
Poor Prax...is lost in his long impressive words...he has no contact with reality...hh would never allow him to read his books, preach the message he preaches or live as he does...I have learned he just likes to be different..I remember his first posts were not like the NOW posts... Steve, you talk so much about others calling us liars and this and that...I wonder if you have ever looked into the mirrow and saw a man that says and condones what he does not believe or live? | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 861 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
bumparoo (So that what I shared above to Covwoman and Pilgrim does not get lost in Alvear-mockery-spam.) And definitely, it is very true that my early posts were different. I was under the mistaken impression that the oppositionals might generally be discussing things from a place of integrity. That turned out to be not the case, instead they are being led and hornswaggled and manipulated by the most confused and bitter and vicious elements. And few will speak an honest word. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1707 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
God does not give His leaders power and authority to control anyone, but to speak a truth that sets people free. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1709 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
Prax gets upset because he encouages people to go to HH and he himself is not a member, will not be one, cannot be one in the present doctrine he believes in. Prax defends a doctrine he does not even live...lol | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 863 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear, Your pseudo-prophetic mocking utteranaces as in this post have as much weight before God as your blasphemies. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1714 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
The people and God will judge... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1715 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
For 40 years I have worked as a missionary. My journey as a missionary has not only taken me to the land of my calling but to most of the South American countries to the Philippine Islands to Portugal, Azores and many other places…mission fields such as Belize have been visited and we serve as counselors to several missionaries on different fields. We serve as counselors to several churches in the USA. Not only has my life been blessed by knowing many “giants” in God’s kingdom I have been blessed to travel with many of them. My home has been graced by some of God’s most noble people that ever walked the face of the earth. One of the most remarkable couples I ever met and traveled with was Richard and Sabrina Wurmbrand, which founded the Voice of Martyrs. There sweet humble spirit and their sufferings at the hands of cruel communist guards and long years in underground prisons made an impact on my life. And yes, they were not from the denomination I belong to! My writing here on factnet has nothing to do with doctrine. Although I have never hid the fact that I am a oneness missionary you will never find me belittling other Christians. You may type my name into search and you will find many articles and churches where I have visited, spoken or showed slides. You can find missionary tapes and listen to my stories and not one time will you ever find me involved in what some call fussing and fighting here at factnet. I feel an awesome responsibility to warn both oneness and trinity folks about HH. It is not because I agree or disagree with their ever changing doctrine and new lights that shine on their pathways that I write here. It is because I disagree with their tactics and I do not uphold lying to folks and tricking them into joining an organization. I do not uphold jesus in the flesh doctrine or their death covenants. I do not believe a person has to go back there to be saved once they have left there. I do not believe their authority message neither do I believe that elders have the power to pick who marries who. I do not believe that everything we do has to be oked by some group of elders. I do not believe in using a horrible accident to claim God’s judgment on someone and by doing so trying to scare others…I just don’t believe in scare tactics at all. I do not believe they or any so called group that separates families is right before God. I do not believe the Bible teaches shunning in the manner they teach it…and on and on… In America I sat down with several pastors and talked about HH doctrine and no one that I talked to agrees to all that made up stuff… I feel like when we talk about what we believe we can be honest about it even if perhaps we are wrong. We are all humans and we could be wrong about any given subject. I have never tried to sit in the judgment seat for I too will be judged according to how I judge others. I depend on many churches of many belief’s to support missions so I would be foolish to get on factnet and talk about some group UNLESS I am certain they are wrong and I see grave danger involved in their teachings. In my work as a missionary it is important that I represent Brazil and the mission fields. HH was a place where I witnessed deliberant lying and falsehood. HH is a place where I meet some of the nicest people that I have ever met yet a people that are so deceived and led to believe they cannot question their leaders and must be in absolute subjection to them by taking every thought (question doubt) into captivity. A people that are so deceived and live a deceived life by a doctrine that is absolutely impossible to fulfill. I traveled with some of the leaders and watched them do things that are taught against. | ||
| dowen Advanced Member Username: dowen Post Number: 836 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.153.234.10 |
Mrs. A, You have daily judged HH on this board. You have called them every name in the book, you have mocked them, laughed at them and spat upon them. But if anyone says anything to you about your brash brash actions here on FN, you immediately attack them for being judgmental! Your hypocrisy has reached dizzying hights. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1716 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
time will tell Dowen...time tells lots of things.. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1717 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
I cannot imagine a true leader bulling God’s people or trying to frighten them by letting them think the judgments of God will fall on them if they leave HH and if they leave they are breaking a marriage vow to God and if they would someday hope for God’s forgiveness they must come back and subject themselves to HH authority since they claim to be jesus in the flesh. Where o where is such garbage written in the Holy book? We all know that Jerusalem was invaded by her enemies, the Edomites "stood on the other side" doing nothing but watching the slaughter as spectators. God said by their failure to act and to help their brethren "even thou wast as one of them" (Obad. 11). I pledge to do my best which is so little but I will warn people of the deceitful doctrine at HH… If my missionary mom were at some normal place I could go visit her but since she is in hh she cannot even call me without breaking the rules. She begged me to accept their doctrine so we could have a relationship....I love her very much but not enough to side with wrong...She knows they are wrong she herself told me that about many things...but "covenant" keeps her there | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 865 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
One point now. When Mrs. Alvear claims to speak for other people not here, please ..hold on to your lie detector meter, so that it doesn't spin off the gauge. Rarely can you trust a word she says about her own experiences with HH, most is best simply ignored. So much is filtered for her own purposes and then mixed with gall. A bitter mixture only designed for ill. Even much less can her words be trusted when she claims to relate what other people say. Remember about this very same sister Mrs. Alvear lied for weeks claiming she had not written the deep letter. Some only could see she was clearly deceiving after she selectively posted part of the letter, destroying her own claims. That letter in full would give the true perspectives of our dear sister, not the Alvear wormwood that she peddles now. Caveat emptor. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1719 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
lol | ||
| seekingglory Intermediate Member Username: seekingglory Post Number: 114 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.162.130.84 |
Isaiah 21: 6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth. Watchman in Hebrew is opeh, meaning “one who looks out, spies, watches Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. I will speak as a watchman and declare what I have seen at HH because I do not want the blood of fellow Christians on my hands. God warned that those of us who exercise discernment will be attacked. 1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction [that causeth] to err from the words of knowledge. We will continue to write and to fight for the truth. The truth will set men free. I pray that those held in bondage will see the truth. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1720 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
I know my mom...I lived with her not you. If she wrote that letter she was brainwashed into writing it...when I called her she said she was sorry...I know how hh works and thinks... | ||
| fullofquestions Member Username: fullofquestions Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.57.32.25 |
lol | ||
| seekingglory Intermediate Member Username: seekingglory Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.162.130.84 |
Isaiah 21: 6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth. Watchman in Hebrew is opeh, meaning “one who looks out, spies, watches Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. I will speak as a watchman and declare what I have seen at HH because I do not want the blood of fellow Christians on my hands. God warned that those of us who exercise discernment will be attacked. 1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction [that causeth] to err from the words of knowledge. We will continue to write and to fight for the truth. The truth will set men free. I pray that those held in bondage will see the truth. | ||
| fullofquestions Member Username: fullofquestions Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.57.32.25 |
true enough | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 869 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
A perfect example of Alvear-twisting. As the dear sister wrote the letter (after Alvear had lied again and again saying she had not) well, then she was brainwashed. When I write from outside HH, Mrs. Alvear tries to attack me for not being in HH. Yet if I or anyone would write something from inside HH she will wail to the forum that they are writing as brainwashed. Consistency, thou art a jewel. And if the sister says something like .. "Mrs. Alvear, I am sorry that the letter caused such repercussions among the churches .. " simply to try to help Mrs. Alvear come to grips with her deep rebellion that was being addressed, then of course Mrs. Alvear could write as above. And continue to ignore the substance of the letter and the deep sharing. Excuses abound. That is why nothing that Mrs. Alvear says about people not here can be trusted. Nothing. (She can rant about me, I do not mind one bit, since I am posting on the forum.) We saw that later, when Mrs. Alvear posted some selected excerpts from the letter. Even selected, they demonstrated the sincerity and depth of the letter as well as its authorship. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1722 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
The letter was laughed at as HH devices to try to get the Brazil work...My pastor and friends just threw it in the trash as cult mail...and told me, "we told you so Sister Alvear but you wanted to see what HH was...so you did..." That letter made Roxie look like a fool... We know the circumstances that drove her to HH... and no matter what she was going through at that time of her life and whatever she would say now, I remember her as a person that helped me when I was a kid...but I will never go along with her or HH trying to take over Brazil work. Not that she would have even thought of that...she was just being used by them... If my mom had written the letter without being brainwashed I would have known and she would not have told me she was sorry... | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1723 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
I guess after almost 50 years of knowing her and recieving scores of letters from her I would know her way of expressing herself...and know when somone else is putting words in her mouth...I have talked to mom quite a few times after the letter. Anyone on this board wanting information about me is free to call my pastor or any of my overseers...I will furnish names and numbers. I have nothing to hide. Most of them will tell you they told me hh was a cult and to stay away but I wanted to be close to mom during her last days...and as long as hh thought they might take our work they were nice to us when they saw we were not joining them they stopped mon from having anything to do with us... Only someone that has been a baptized recent part of that system knows what that means... | ||
| praxaluh Advanced Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 870 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.73.4.159 |
Mrs. Alvear "laughed at .. threw it in the trash .. cult mail... a fool...brainwashed " You are a very spiritually sick woman Mrs. Alvear. You are even much worse today than when you wrote of this a couple of months back. Back then you wrote with some heart and conscience, some concern, some listening. Now evil communications has corrupted you, as the Bible warns, and has driven you to a very, very difficult place. Any readers here wondering can simply go back and read even the selective excerpts that were finally posted from the 'trashed' mail. They were deep and included the dear sister's beautiful testimony. All of which becomes the object of mockery and scorn and derision from the hatchet-woman Alvear, leader of the oppositionalists. One poster offered you some very good advice last night. Lord Jesus, we ask you to help bring some sense and respect to the forum, that many here would take a strong integrity stance. In Jesus name, Praxaluh (Message edited by praxaluh on January 11, 2007) | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1724 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
call me whatever you want to.. I said and if I did not make myself plain, the people Roxie sent the letter to trashed the letter...some refused to even read it... You see Prax some of the people she wrote happened to know her before HH and they happen to know her speech... No, I will not stop writing here. I will tell the truth and nothing but the truth. People need to know what they are joining and the results it can bring upon their families...I almost lost mine because they hated HH and its bizzare doctrines. (Message edited by Missionary_lady on January 11, 2007) | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1725 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
call me whatever you want to.. I said and if I did not make myself plain, the people Roxie sent the letter to trashed the letter...some refused to even read it... You see Prax some of the people she wrote happened to know her before HH and they happen to know her speech... No, I will not stop writing here. I will tell the truth and nothing but the truth. People need to know what they are joining and the results it can bring upon their families...I almost lost mine because they hated HH and its bizzare doctrines. (Message edited by Missionary_lady on January 11, 2007) | ||
| pilgrim16 New member Username: pilgrim16 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.112.125.158 |
the danger like putting a 306 shell in a 22. there will be an dangerous explosion if it goes off because the 22 is not designed for the power of the 306. to claim apostolic power in a little (relatively speaking) group that is in one geographic location in the whole world seems like the above analogy. | ||
| missionary_lady Senior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 1728 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 201.57.69.188 |
The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord so says the Prophet of the Old Testament...I believe that day is coming but not through the work of one church it will be as my Jewish friend says, "the work of One God". | ||
| fullofquestions Intermediate Member Username: fullofquestions Post Number: 127 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.57.32.25 |
How much time do you spend on this site? |
