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Message |
    
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1469
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 201.82.95.82
| | Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:27 am: | 
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Thought this would be good for the public to read...each one can post their story... |
money_monger
New member
Username: money_monger
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 76.184.89.178
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 11:22 pm: |
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to be an alchoholic do drugs hookers an any other whim i have an prolly burn hot! but hey at least my goal in life isnt to get as much money as i can for my "missionary" work "lol" |
money_monger
New member
Username: money_monger
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 76.184.89.178
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 11:25 pm: |
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i really like how you talked hh into getting rid of theyre wedding bands...... oh yeah the whole sleeve has to be below the elbow thats funny nice janice more rules for hh thanks to you |
money_monger
New member
Username: money_monger
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 76.184.89.178
| | Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 12:35 am: |
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oh yeah i was there when you were its amazing how some ordinary men "brainwashed" such a strong person of faith your quite gullible i guess.. funny how that happened. to bad i gave my money for your guppy pond in brazil an fasted an prayed for your health with about 700 other people |
missionary_lady
Junior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.9.91
| | Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 3:35 pm: |
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Thank you for your prayers, offerings and whatever you done. Whatever we do for the Lord does not go unnoticed by Him. Blessings to you from Brazil. |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.9.62.181
| | Posted on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 6:21 pm: |
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Because my family did and at the time of their departure I was too young to have stayed if I had wanted to. However, I honestly was ready to leave and wasn't upset by my parents' decision. Why?
I'd started reading my Bible and having some quiet time alone with Jesus. I'd started reading other books given to us by a friend who was visiting HH. I knew my family members outside of HH were Christians and that the HH folks weren't the only people going to heaven. I knew there was hope outside the group. I knew my Jesus would never leave me or forsake me, even if we left.
If faced with the same decision today, as an adult, I would choose to leave.
HH does not have the monopoly on love. It is not the only place you will find brothers and sisters helping, serving, and loving one another with all their hearts. I've witnessed it many places over the past several years. There are people all over the globe who truly love the Lord! They aren't hard to find, or far and few between as HH had us believe.
The people in HH really do love one another. They love Jesus too, but their view of Him is quite different from mine. They see Him as shown to them by the elders. I see Him as He shows Himself to me personally in my daily walk with Him.
I love so many there. If given the opportunity I'd head down there right now to hug necks and catch up with old friends. But, I have to wonder if I'd be accepted there? If someone recognized me, or if I told anyone my name would I be asked to leave? |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 6:56 pm: |
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You might be allowed on the property where the public roam but the reception would be cold and restricted. If they knew you had posted here then you would be asked to leave. |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 26
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 8:18 pm: |
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Appreciate your thoughts, usedtobelong.
As to how a visit might go, requested or more spontaneous, every situation is unique. (And I can speak from personal experience.) One thing you don't need in that regard is 'counsel' from those with lots of animosity.
And please understand .. I don't know who h75 is and the intention may be very sincere. However I would take 99%+ of the counsel on this board with less than a grain of salt.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
dowen
Junior Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 46
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 12:43 am: |
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"You might be allowed on the property where the public roam but the reception would be cold and restricted."
Really?
Every time I have visited I have been received quite warmly...
"If they knew you had posted here then you would be asked to leave."
Hmm.
Again, how could you know this, beyond a shadow of a doubt?
You are accusing HH of being inhospitable, what proof do you have of this?
Who knows who you are, but I speak from personal experience, and I know that you will be hard pressed to find more friendly and hospitable people than the members of HH.
Then again, if someone called me a devil worshiper and a Nazi, I don't know how welcoming I would be toward them...
That's just me though. I can't, and don't, speak for HH. |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 8:23 am: |
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Proof- a seminarian I know went to the Friday night meeting with two fellows. The friends were told that they don't like people showing up without invitation.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
BTW, I'm sick and tired of your refusal to answer the questions- esp. refusal to address plain Scripture. |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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I guess one of the reasons I always remain anonymous here and posting anywhere else about HH is that I feel I have a chance of going back and saying hi to people if they don't know I've been disagreeing with their doctrines.
If I attend First Baptist downtown for a year or two, then leave, telling the pastor and other that I have found I don't agree with certain things taught in their church they aren't going to ask me to leave when I wish to come back and see my friends perform in their Christmas play!
Really, it's quite a silly matter. Unless one has made physical threats to someone in the group, they should always be welcome back for visits! I don't care how much you disagree on doctrines. Families shouldn't be separated over doctrinal differences.
Why have so many who have left been estranged from their families, unable to see their grand children, or for their kids to meet their grandparents? Does the church think that just because these people left and have "spoken out" about doctrines they feel are wrong they're going to come back with guns or bombs and hurt someone?
Many of the posters here have expressed extreme disagreement with the group's theology, but I have yet to see any who wish harm to befall a single person!
} |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 9:37 pm: |
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usedtobelong .. you seem to be writing in a bit of a fantasy world. Just the last couple of days a poster has been writing (with no objection whatsoever from the oppos) about all the constabulary and legal and political and media effort they want to organize to harm HH. Let's figure out a way to break up the families or fight home-schooling and home birth, let's get social services involved, the wonderful legal system, let's figure out an angle for a case or an arrest, most of all, lets brand them not as a true Christian community but as a cult like that of Vernon Howell or Jim Jones.
Clearly the effort is to harm the community fabric. You rationalize that because you think such media and statist-supplied evil against a Christian community is being done for a good cause .. while it is simply animus towards HH.
Similarly we have even seen posters here tell about how they showed up at HH bringing presents or whatever - yet reading between the lines the trips clearly read like they were accomplished with an agenda to spread poison about the community to those they might get to listen. A community is supposed to encourage such subterfuge of acrimony ?
And I remember once when I brought a seminary/scholastic/doctrinal type to a meeting who was incapable of responding to the move of God. Remembering that experience I can very much understand that such a surprise drop-in (hmm.. "lets sit and take notes about this phenomenon" has even occurred) may not be the best way for a human and real beginning interaction with visitors who are hopefully also seekers.
Which is best done on a one-to-one heart-to-heart sharing. Even when I came to faith many years ago, that was the core base, one friend walking down by the beautiful stream in New Jersey and explaining (sans jargon) the need for repentance and the beauty of the experience of walking with the Lord Jesus Christ. And seeing the reflection of God's glory upon my friend and his family.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2007 - 10:33 pm: |
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I said it, and you know it.
Homestead Heritage is not Christianity, therefore not Christian. If Christianity means bondage, then I have better things to do with my time than belong to a church.
Speaking of poison, I use poison to kill weeds.
Remember- you don't give a diddly about the media, so fear not!
So ol' Prax, where do your friends (not your belief, or you would belong to HH) get the right to keep somebody from attending a service? Sure didn't get that from the Bible. It is secrecy, darkness, fear, withdrawal, fear of scrutiny. Guess what? The evil truth is getting exposed even though the head honchos out there will not make public their meetings, beliefs, or literature.
Do I view this counterfeit Christianity a threat to real Christianity? You betcha! |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 12:05 pm: |
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Prax, maybe Majajh did mention legal and media attentions, but I was not speaking of outsiders. I was however speaking of those who have a personal interest in restoring relationships with their friends and family still inside the group.
Take Jeremy for example. Try to explain to me why he is not allowed to have a relationship with his sister or his wife's family? Sure he's had some strong disagreements with their beliefs, but he has not threatened their well being. My grandpa was an atheist for many years, but my parents still let us be around him. Family is one of God's most precious gifts and should not be split over doctrinal issues!
(Message edited by usedtobelong on June 10, 2007) |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 30
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 6:11 am: |
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usedtobelong ..
Why not ask Jeremy first if he has been involved in similar types of organized counter-activities as majajh above before offering to use him as a counter-example.
The negative war against HH is the basic modus operandi of many of the oppos, following the lead of anti-oneness Watchman. Sometimes subtle, sometimes overt.
Even the supposedly nice ones like foreverhis can assert the most terrible untruth in this 'cause'.
The difference is that with majajh the mask is off.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
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Oh yes, but what you are calling "counter activities" are his attempts to bring to light the filth of child abuse and molestation, in which case he is fighting for children.
I sincerely doubt he would harm or hurt his family in any way!
I only used Jeremy for an example because he has spoken up here about his family situation and you all know who he is. There are many others who do not post on this board, some of which I know personally, who have no friendly contact with their families.
Oh, and for the record, I don't appreciate you "answering" my question with a question. (I know you didn't use a question mark, but the sentence began with "Why" and didn't answer my question.) You have a way of trying to control a conversation by not answering outright and by turning things around so that the original poster answers to you. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:29 am: |
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With his belligerent attitude and twisted answers Prax does more to validate the wrongs in HH than he ever imagined. He is the quintessence of the leaders of HH. I pray to never be associated with any group resembling HH and I pray to never be in a group with anyone similar to Prax. Lord help those already in bondage there. Maybe when Blair is gone; and he cant live forever; the truth will be easier for those inside to see and the walls will come tumbling down. |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 31
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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Usedtobelong ..
Thank you for the backdoor acknowledgement that Jeremy is filled with acrimony and his motives against HH are not at all the clean-jean stuff being trumpted here. Nuff said, you show the colors of the oppos well too with your sickness in attitude.
The one oppo who had a level of sanctity and holiness in speech, who was careful each post to not let their tongue be on fire, is gone and the replacements are quite a sight.
h75, thanks for the deep compliment, comparing me to men dedicated to God and a loving Christian community. However I am very much speaking my own mind and heart in response to the type of sick invective above that dominates this forum.
Away possibly for a bit, so take your time on the next vitriol.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 1:31 pm: |
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Usedtobelong ..
Thank you for the backdoor acknowledgement that Jeremy is filled with acrimony and his motives against HH are not at all the clean-jean stuff being trumpted here. Nuff said, you show the colors of the oppos well too with your sickness in attitude.
Oh my goodness! You couldn't be further from right! "Backdoor acknowledgment!"
Oh no, what I "acknowledged" was that Jeremy had a righteous motive in defending children! Tell me, if you found out your neighbor was molesting his little girl would you not do everything you could to see that the matter be taken care of legally, and the child protected? And, not only that child, but others? Or would your heart be so full of "love and forgiveness" that you stood by and did nothing?
I see you had already labeled me an "oppo" before my "tounge of fire" showed itself. I figured that would happen. I don't agree with you, therefore I am in cahoots with all the others!
I can see why so many have decided not to waste their precious time conversing with you. You don't answer questions, you judge quickly, and have appointed yourself the judge of right and wrong.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question!!! So, leave Jeremy out of it. Why can't others, who have said nothing here, in the papers, or anywhere public, have healthy, loving relationships with their families?} |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 2:24 pm: |
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Prax, I was not comparing you to men dedicated to God and a loving Christian community. You daydream a lot. I was comparing you to the abusers and power hungry tyrants that presently rule at HH. The only real truth to all this is that one day soon the whole enchilada will come apart. Everyone in HH considers Blair to be Jesus in the flesh, their personal apostle, a special messenger from God. He has duped so many God fearing people into fulfilling his dream. Once he is gone they will have lost their Jesus. Who will they bow to? The second and third generations are fleeing HH; fleeing from the crazy actions of the few appointed to keep the lid on the place. There have been a number of folks who because of this board have walked away from the idea of joining HH. The posters have saved a few lives. It has been worth it. I know HH is excited about this board closing down. I will just sit back from a distance and watch. My bet is within 5 years, 10 years tops, the place will be for sale. HH will just be a horrible memory. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 2:48 pm: |
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Most of the Branch Dividians were sweet people. Gentle God fearing ladies. Well behaved kids. They were HAPPY. Read about it. Look it up. They just had a twisted leader who duped them.
Most of the folks in Jonestown were gentle sweet people. If you visited them they would look so peaceful and loving and happy. They had gardens and learned farm home skills and were somewhat self sufficient. They would defend their way of life. They were HAPPY! Read about it. Look it up. They just had a twisted leader who duped them.
HH is not unique. There are and will always be people who abuse other people to satisfy their personal desires. And they will use Christianity or some other form of religion to accomplish this. Blair is just one of hundreds of people who found a way to influence and control others. |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 5:22 pm: |
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I was asked who I think I am to judge Homestead Heritage (typed out for the sake of search engines). My question to you is, who appointed Adams an apostle? If he can assume that God sent him to HH, I can assume God sent me to challenge HH? I just don't have a crowd recognizing me as such, and he does. |
dowen
Junior Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 9:19 pm: |
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Hello H75,
Your post's make for an interesting read.
I was comparing you (Prax) to the abusers and power hungry tyrants that presently rule at HH.
75, things like this are hard to respond to.
If you were brutally honest with yourself, you would know that what you said is untrue and wrong beyond description. I don't know if you could so such a thing, but I wish you would try.
My best friend is one of those whom you label as a n"abuser" and "power hungry tyrant".
He has nurtured me and loved me for 25 years, and never once has he been the monster you describe him to be. Only an insane person would accuse a man as humble and God fearing as him of being power mad or a tyrant.
He is my Dad, and seeing you treat him and his friends the way you do is just sad beyond words.
You obviously have no idea about what you are saying. And no one who actually knows HH will believe a word you say.
I pray that someday you will be released from the burden of bitterness and hate that you are obviously struggling beneath.
Sincerely,
Daniel Owen.
(Message edited by dowen on June 11, 2007) |
common_sense
New member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 75.31.171.95
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 9:54 pm: |
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DOwen,
I don't know you or your dad, but I can imagine it must hurt beyond words to hear him described in such a way. I respect and appreciate your loyalty to and desire to defend your father. I also believe you are completely sincere in it.
I hope the general observation I make here will not hurt you further, and I also hope you will understand that I am not specifically applying it to your dad precisely because I do not know him. With that said:
A person may be BOTH power hungry and loving. An individual may exhibit BOTH spiritual abuse and parental nurturing. Rarely is an authoritarian leader completely one-dimensional. In fact, these people often achieve great pinnacles of power and authority precisely because they are so charasmatic and believable and likable. I've seen both sides of this type of person; and if you've only seen one side, it is very difficult to even imagine them displaying the other. |
foreverhis
Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.54.69
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:40 pm: |
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I was comparing you (Prax) to the abusers and power hungry tyrants that presently rule at HH.
DOwen,
Unless things have greatly changed, group leaders/"ministers" do not "rule" at HH. They carry out the rules. They are the mouth pieces, hands, and feet for the ONE who does rule. His few top men under him get to convey his rule to the group leaders who carry it out on the members.
"Garden of God"
Pg 37
In theory, men may speak of tolerance of differences, but in practice when those differences penetrate to the core of individuals and corporate identity, conflict becomes inevitable. If the relationship is to be maintained, one view must ultimately prevail
Pg39
What provides the basis of a sovereigns authority in a culture or community? What makes someone or some group the supreme ruler, exercising sovereignty within a given society and serving the source of all information that flows through the covenant that holds the community together? The basis of all sovereignty, that is, the basis of all final and ultimate authority, depends upon origins: The ultimate sovereign over a thing is the one who has created that thing, the one who is the original source of information to those who compose that society. The ultimate authority is the author.
The Order of Perfection
To briefly reiterate, apostle means , as shown, one who is sent forth. The apostle of Jesus Christ is one who is sent forth directly by the Spirit of Jesus and is directly responsible to the Spirit. No intermediate ministry stands between him and the Head. He is the first ( 1 Cor. 12:28) in Gods unfolding chain of revelation to the church. His is the initiating ministry. His primary duty is to preach the revelation of God by which the Body structures and builds itself, to bring the living word not that he has built upon but that he has founded, initiated to Gods people as a whole ( 2 Tim. 4:2; Rom. 10:14; 1 Cor. 1:17; 9:16; Mark 3:14 ) As the initiating ministry within the Body, the apostle is the chief means whereby the Spirit directly initiates building activity within the Body of Christ. Everything , the Bible tells us, must be done in decency and in order (1 Cor. 14:40, KJV ), and the order through which the Spirit initiates new revelation, sows the founding seed of his overall pattern for the churches, is through the apostolic ministry.
Your father may get to decide where the Friday night meeting for his group is held that week and whether or not they will serve refreshments. he gets to watchover and lead the meeting. Decision greater than these will be passed by, (confirmed,) if not made by, those over him.
When we were there, our group leaders were constantly checking with brother GL and HW before making any plans that amounted to anything. Then they answered to the apostle, Bro. BA
Answer me honestly, do the group leaders make the rules now? Do they have final say so on what the rules are? Has it changed that much? Or are they still just ad-ministers of the rules?
When I was in Homestead Heritage, they were more like police men than rulers. (I do NOT mean that to be at all derogatory.) They do not get to have the power so are not likely be the "power hungry rulers."
FH |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 65
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 9:40 am: |
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"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me..."
Remember what I said- war is ugly. If you try to conduct a polite war you will lose the mission.
Regarding the passages from the heretical teachings you quoted- my gosh, what doctrines of demons! Funny how someone claims himself to be an apostle, equal with Paul and Peter in ministry! This is a true picture of "absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Who is GL? |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 9:56 am: |
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Agreeing with FH that group leaders were normally just messengers who loved and cared for the people in their groups. I remember dowens dad as a humble, wonderful person and could never imagine him as "power hungry!" |
foreverhis
Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 55
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.54.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
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Who is GL?
GL, Gary Linzer, was the "pastor" when I was there. HW, Howard Wheeler, was a Prophet, and way above all was the Apostle Blair Adams. Later DB, Doyle Borman, took a place upfront with those two. In my opinion the one with all the real power was Blair Adams. If they did anything to cross Adams they could be stripped bare of all honor by Adams in front of everyone. They answered to him and he answered to no one but God. He is protected from the public, and in his dreams it is he who the bad people come after. When I was there he had a place to hide away if the going got tough. He was so sick that he couldnt meet with Cindy Culp, the Waco Tribune reporter, but he had the strength to write a rebuttal the size of a small book.
He not only called himself an apostle, but required members to:
"hold to the Holy Bible as interpreted by the Spirit moving through the appropriate channels of leadership as your curriculum, your course of faith, supplemented and more precisely defined and expounded by the interpretation given by the Spirit and recorded in..." Then he listed the literature and included "others that might be added in the future."
Paul was impressed by the Bereans who tested what he told him by scripture. Obviously, Adams did not accept difference of opinion in interpretation among his followers.
To be continued |
foreverhis
Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 56
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.54.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:15 am: |
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He goes beyond claiming the authority of an apostle, he claims all the authority and judgment of "Jesus still coming in the flesh" insisting that submission to the "tangible" authority of God which was once represented in the Biblical account of Jesus, now is in the tangible expression of His body today. We were taught the submission to that tangible authority of God was necessary for salvation. When he talked about Jesus and His Sacrificial Body that saves, it was as it exist today, not 2000 years ago. I need to find you more quotes, but here are some.
In the book By What Authority,
This is from page 2 of the document:
Listen to His [Jesus] words, then as recorded in John 5: Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the son. Thats interesting, isnt it? Especially in light of the fact that that God also calls us His sons
.Yes, its remarkable that Jesus said that the Father
has deposited this judgment in His sonship, in those who have been born of the spirit of sonship, born from above.
From page 8:
The Spirit from God must acknowledge that God comes down from above and puts his authority, puts His Word, puts Himself in human flesh. If you can truly acknowledge that, then the Spirit that speaks from you is from God; and if you cant do that, your spirit, John says, is antichrist.
And:
Who are you submitted to--those who speak from the viewpoint of the world
those who come in their own name, their own authority, or those who speak with an authority from above? Notice that the test is whether they will confess that Jesus Christ, the Lord who is the Spirit, has come in human flesh; and this means that they will listen to us.
the position paper on "Communion and Discerning of the Body" page 1
"Do we still remember the Lord's death, a death into which we pledged ourselves in baptism? Do we still discern this Body, (1Cor.11:29,Mark14:22-24) (now) the sacrificial corporate Body of his humanity that must be offered up unto the Lord and of which we form a part?"
On page 2
" Confessing this discernment of his authority in the Body goes far in realizing our confession of Him as Lord. In short, do we still see the true nature of that Body in whose flesh He continues to come (2John 7) and to which we originally committed at baptism."
Again:
The Order of Perfection
God is now again raising up a new Samuel priesthood in the midst of his people; it is coming forth not through the promiscuous fecundity of a church that is entangled in the appurtenances and glitter of the world but through the agony of a church that is today deemed barren. Through this Samuel priesthood, God will pour forth the Davidic anointing, the Messianic anointing of the full measure of the stature of Christ on his Church (Eph. 4:13). (Chapter 9 discusses this further.)
FH |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.55.0.48
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:45 am: |
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Whew. That is some heavy stuff.
John 5: Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the son.'
Son. Singular! Where does one translate that into a plural 'sonship.' And, yes, we are sons and daughters of Christ, joint heirs with Him even, but when the Bible says "the son" I'm pretty sure it means JESUS!
I guess maybe if you thought you were 'Jesus come it the flesh' as some here talk about, you might interpret it that way, but I still say it's quite a far stretch!} |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 66
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 1:52 pm: |
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I guess the pope, Blair Adams', authority descended from Peter, now expresses the infallable word of God? I've never heard him, or the so-called prophet (wonder what great words of prophecy he utters?) saying they were in error on any point? It's all us worldlings, inferior-living Christians of the church of fornication that are just clueless?
How many movements have claimed they are "it"? Let's see: Catholicism, Mormoms, J.W.s, Church of Christ, etc., etc., etc. |
foreverhis
Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 57
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.48.179
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 1:59 pm: |
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How Do You Know? Blair Adams
From pages 81 & 82
....so John gives the church the test to protect each flock from the hostile and murderous spirit of antichrist, warning us not to trust or ''believe'' those who have a spirit that cannot fully and certainly accept the anointing in ''us,'' who cannot accept the same authority that Jesus possessed as it '' continues to come in our human nature." If they cannot receive the Word that the ministry preaches as indeed it is, the Word of God (1 Thess. 2:13), if they cannot accept as constitutional (apart from their own decision in each situation) that the ministry beseeches them "in Christ's stead'' (2Cor. 5:20, KJV), if they cannot fully and certainly confess that Jesus' anointing continues to come in the flesh, in ''our human nature," in the local expression of the corporate Body of Jesus to which God would join them, but rather they refuse to "listen to us," then they are not to be received into fellowship in the Body.
..... Jesus then said In His ''good confession," ''Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." This is the same as John's test: ''We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us'' (1 John 4:6). Someone who refuses to submit to God's definition of truth expressed in the authority of tangible human flesh simply desires to manipulate the truth to correspond to his own desires. He resists any truth that would represent a given beyond his own mind, and so he denies any tangible authority that would testify to the absoluteness of truth. Such a person cannot hear God's voice in human flesh, for he desires to leave truth in the abstract, relativist realm of his own mind.... |
foreverhis
Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 58
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.48.179
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:06 pm: |
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Continued:
From page 83
Paul underscores this necessity to discern God's authority in human flesh when he says that ''faith comes by hearing'' but ''hearing'' must be ''by the Word of God," and how can they ''hear without a preacher?'' (Rom. 10:14, 17, NKJV). Believers must receive the Word ''as it really is," the Word of God spoken through human flesh ''sent from God." To hear the Word as the word of mere men profits the hearer nothing. They must discern the Body of Christ (1 Cor.11:29) as speaking the anointed Word to them. Yet Paul says, ''but they [who have heard] had not all obeyed the gospel (Rom. 10:16, KJV).
From page 84
All will be tested by the increasing light of Gods restored covenant. And the supreme questions in this test are: will it be revealed that we truly belong to Jesus? Are we willing to have Him define all our covenants and have His desires become ours? Can we submit to Gods authority in human flesh, or will it become a rock of offence to us? When the Son of man returns will He find faith in our hearts (Luke 18:8)? So this authority, as Jesus said (John 17:2-3), becomes then critical in our ability to know God.
In Homestead, "to know God" is salvation. So accepting their authority as God's authority is critical for salvation.
Even entertaining doubts in your mind is scary. You fear eternal consequences. Forget that you conscience is screaming in opposition to what they have told you. "Someone who refuses to submit to God's definition of truth expressed in the authority of tangible human flesh simply desires to manipulate the truth to correspond to his own desires. He resists any truth that would represent a given beyond his own mind,"
You learn not to doubt, not to question, not to trust yourself. You must trust them or be lost. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:19 pm: |
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I was once on the inside and high enough in the pecking order to see the internal struggle for position. Yes the group leaders cared very much for their groups. But there was and still is leaders who enjoy the control they have over others. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 2:21 pm: |
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Some would exercise authority merely to confirm submission. |
majajh
Member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 67
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 5:14 pm: |
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Wow! That literature would be absolutely ripped to shreds in any decent Bible class! It is so patently self-serving, and so obviously evil. It is easy to see that if you buy into this you just voted for mind control.
If HH was simply some simple agrarian Bible-believing community, I'd have no problem with it, but the Word of God is made to say all kinds of stuff it doesn't say. Humans cannot handle this kind of power over others without becoming corrupt. No wonder they do not want seminarians or Bible college trained people attending their services. No wonder they insist on one-on-one discussion of their beliefs. They know what a firestorm would kindle if their literature got out. |
missionary_lady
Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 11:25 pm: |
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You hit the nail on the head...they know what their literature would stir up...and it would not be good for them. |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 43
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:26 am: |
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majajh
"No wonder they do not want seminarians or Bible college trained people attending their services."
You are a bit confused here, as is so much of this thread (the one redeeming factor of the thread was 'foreverhis' including the writings and scriptures from Garden of God ... thanks, even if full contextual reading is far superior).
Anybody with a heart for God would be welcome to interact with HH. e.g. the Baylor fellow who wrote the Christianity Today article likely had your desired 'seminarian' and Bible College background. What has always been inappropriate at meetings (going back decades  ) is an attempt to simply analyze and dissect in smug intellectual superiority and complacency while keeping the spirit of God at a distance.
Now this analytical pseudo-spiritual attitude may in fact be fostered in seminary environments with their various 'criticisms' and competing systematic theologies. There really can be a Pharisitical approach taken to Bible matters by those fully trained in modern Christian scholastic disciplines.
Nonetheless any honest, seeking heart can be freed from such bondages !
In Jesus name,
Praxaluh
PS.
This thread was also the one with the sick abuse/molestation junque, mired in psychobabble humanist concepts and an improper equation, which I discuss elsewhere tonight in the 'Dowen' thread.
Please keep in mind that it is the oppo modus operandi to deceive about the holiness and cleanliness of life at HH and also to hide the uncleanness of those leaving because of the enticement of sin. (Instead a lowest common denominator 'I'm ok, your ok' attitude predominates among the oppos.)
We earlier did have one oppo poster who, to his credit, refused to so deceive about HH vis a vis holiness, even giving clear and thankful credit for so much that stayed incorporated in his life and the life of his family. However he left so now the field is left to the acrid and the rancid, the land of railing accusation. |
missionary_lady
Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 6:55 am: |
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Just for thought Prax.
Is holiness beating children? Is holiness driving people in the name of God until they can stand no more?
Is holiness putting diapers on grown kids? Is holiness screaming, ranting and raging?
Is holiness prohibiting kids from getting a higher education? Is holiness separating families and shunning just because they leave HH? Is holiness signing manmade covenants? Is holiness not eating pork? Is holiness not reading a newspaper?
Shall I go on? |
majajh
New member
Username: majajh
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 24.206.99.20
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 8:47 am: |
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Bubba, you can make the spirit of god be, do, and say whatever you want, but the plain Bible is feared, isn't it? People who know the Bible, and have been educated in the Bible are eggheaded know-it-alls, right? You are disgusting, and I hold you as accursed for preaching another gospel and ridiculing the Church. Your golden calf, Homestead Heritage, which you honor far about Jesus Christ, and talk about way more than Jesus Christ, will be around a bit longer. Go join now! |
missionary_lady
Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 57
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 9:27 am: |
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Was the church Jesus founded...Upon this rock...hid off in the bushes somewhere or were they going everywhere preaching the gospel?
Am I am not against christian community as LONG AS IT IS CHRISTIAN. |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.51.55.80
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 2:07 pm: |
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Please keep in mind that it is the oppo modus operandi to deceive about the holiness and cleanliness of life at HH and also to hide the uncleanness of those leaving because of the enticement of sin.
I would have you know, neither I, or my family left because of the enticement of sin! There have been a few teenagers who did, but for the most part it was families who felt God wanted them to leave, and they have led beautiful, Christian lives since. Do not lump us all into the same group just because we disagree with the doctrines you defend. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:04 pm: |
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That's just Prax's way of blowing smoke.
He loves to put others down.
He takes great delight in the glory and praise HH heaps on him for being their defender. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:12 pm: |
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I actually left to draw nearer to God. Many others left and are active in the Body of Christ. Prax cannot justify his attacks on posters unless he can demonize them. |
h75
New member
Username: h75
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 71.41.26.146
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 3:17 pm: |
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Poor Prax........A scholarly scalawag.
(Message edited by h75 on June 26, 2007) |
praxaluh
Junior Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 50
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
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Hi Folks,
I simply shared what I saw repeatedly over many years and what I believe is often the case even today. And that does not mean that nobody (or even many) left because of sincere doctrinal differences. And sometimes motives are mixed.
In my own experience the HH ministry has always been encouraged to hear good things 'church-wise' (my term) about those who left. That the folks are worshipping and seeking God and not enmeshed in dirt but grounded in fundamental truths of the Bible and walking in faith, lifting up the Lord Jesus Christ.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
missionary_lady
Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 62
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 1:19 pm: |
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You and I must not have talked to the same people...Would you like to know their opinion of you and others that do not see their light? |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.51.55.80
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:13 pm: |
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Prax, I am glad to hear that, because while I was there I didn't hear a single good thing about a single person who had left the group. All we heard about were the supposed evil doings of these former members. (and many of those "evil" things turned out to be things HH didn't agree with, and were not wrong at all) |
missionary_lady
Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 64
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:32 pm: |
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All I can say everyone that I asked why they left I heard terrible things about them. If they were saving face I donīt know but one thing I know for a fact they lied about the ones I asked about. |
praxaluh
Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:58 pm: |
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usedtobelong, that has definitely been my experience, and that of others I know.
In my own situation I even pulled an unannounced dropin at the fair, meeting a couple of friends (I'm not saying this was wisdom, just that it was done). After some years of minimal communication. And I received friendly and earnest sharing from all.
And the next day after the fair I was at the land a bit - simply sitting and soaking up the peace of God and talking to a couple of folks and considering this and that (a friend recently shared a similar experience that brought this to clear remembrance).
And others I know have had HH reaching out to them in various ways. Sometimes surprising me as to their heart and burden for folks who seemingly have moved way far away into other areas.
Please understand, I am not saying that such situations, especially with former members, are light and easy and breezy. Clearly they are not.
Simply that HH folks are very real and earnest and the oppo tinge here is meant to hide many truths. And that HH folks have always spoken to me very respectfully about my friends who are now former members (always, both before and after this Factnet stuff).
usedtobelong, I think you may have another post that I should reply to. I'll check around.
My sense is that you are being more earnest here than most so I don't want you to feel that I clump everybody together. You can see my heart about this in my discussions with one former member not now on forum. And if you ask me a real, sincere, earnest non-agenda question (very rare on this forum) I will try to give an answer in the same vein. Sometimes the answer may be "I dunno" or "its not on my radar" or "I'm not really in a position to evaluate" and such but the answer will be given with consideration and sincerity. Or if you simply want to brainstorm (question and answer is not always the best way) and share perhaps God will give us more insight.
Shalom,
Praxaluh
praxeus@bigfoot.com |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.51.55.80
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 8:57 pm: |
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Prax,
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the forum, but I have always been curious...
Does your username mean something? Or is it just something you made up? How would you pronounce it? |
praxaluh
Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 7:09 pm: |
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Hi UTB,
prax-a-luh.
prax as in max
a as in "a thing", short a.
luh as in "duh"
There was an early church fellow named Praxeus, or Praxean. Tertullian opposed him some, mostly because he believed in one God, as did most all the simple people of the day.
Also praxis means like.. practice, technique.
Aaron Nimzovich wrote "Chess Praxis", which was a fav book when I was into that stuff, very unorthodox for his time.
a-luh is just a New York toity-tird and tird type of ending, my add-on for this forum (I think my normal Prax names, Praxeus and Praxean, might have been taken, so I winged it a bit). I have a few such names on the net.
.. "all Prax.. all the time...".
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
usedtobelong
New member
Username: usedtobelong
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 75.51.55.80
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 7:17 pm: |
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ah, interesting i like it when people are creative. always cool to learn of the history too. |
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