| Author |
Message |
    
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 219
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 3:42 pm: | 
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You wish, sailor. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 245
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.214
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 4:26 pm: |
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 Gosh I love you guys.... |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 679
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 206.138.130.3
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 4:28 pm: |
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"perceived contradictions that have created a cultic mindset."
Are you calling me a cult? Because the cult I was involved in considered the bible to be perfect, inerrant, and without flaw- just like you.
Do you see the correlation I am attempting to draw?
"Remember this forum is for the purpose of cult awareness"
Follow my argument- fundamentalists- neo cult. Extremists- cult,
similarites- zealous adherence to doctrines and interpretations based on literal inerrancy. Also, religious intolerance, air of superiority, some type of recruitment.
Liberal groups or churches which do not hold to inerrancy (which there are more than a few) = healthier environment- emotionally and spiritually.
To me it is very relevant to the subject of cults.
You might disagree, but that means more to you than me.
"When I find someone willing to listen and has an open mind to what I say then I will be glad to discuss the topic of perceived contradictions"
How convenient. I am judged as closed minded, and unwilling to listen, but you have not even tried tp respond to them yet. How did you determine this closed mindedness?
Because I do not believe in inerrancy already, I am disqualified from being a candidate for conversation?
How interesting.
No Franklin, I do not think you are a cult member because you believe in inerrancy. I think that regarding this subject, your blind refusal to confront the facts, displays traits similar to those in cults, loyalty to a belief system, no matter what evidence is presented, being one trait. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 4:41 pm: |
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Wrong!
What was the name of the cult you were in?
Why was it considered a cult?
Name one scripture that you think they misinterpreted to create the cultic mind control. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 681
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:33 pm: |
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"Name one scripture that you think they misinterpreted to create the cultic mind control."
'Obey them that have the rule over you for they watch for your souls'.
'Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft'.
'Forsake not the assembling of yourselves as the manner of some is'...
they attended church or a church function 5-6 days a week. To miss was considered sin. I did this for years.
1 Cor 11 interpreted as a woman cutting hair at all will cause a woman to go to hell.
'Wives submit yourselves to your husbands'...
This created much abuse of the women there.
Modest apparel interpreted very conservatively that wearing shorts or a woman wearing pants is a sin. There is some tradition in the Christian churches of hisotry of having this, or a similar standard.
If you want some more, I have gobs and gobs of them. I have posted over two thousand posts on the matter.
"What was the name of the cult you were in?"
NTCC- New Testament Christian Church.
"Why was it considered a cult?"
Fear, control, lifting up the leaders as God's anointed, and strict adherence to all the bible as interpreted literally and taking, in most cases, the most extreme position possible. Pastors counseling members on all manner of personal things, I experienced an arranged marriage, for example. All but arranged. I suppose technically I was free to choose, but when the man of God says: "I'll pray about it" and then says "I think you should get married" we were conditioned to obey or we thought it meant hell. Obey them that have THE RULE OVER YOU.
For the record, they do not consider themselves a cult. They consider themselves a Christian church that has not compromised with the world.
You know, a "holiness" church. Similar to UPC only not oneness. Trinitarian. Pentecostal. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 682
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:41 pm: |
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"Why was it considered a cult?"
Public humiliation, non accountability of church funds... pushing people to pay tithe because
"all Christians pay tithe" to not do so, is to face hell.
Expecting and pushing people to go "soul winning" or door knocking in order to be accepted as a member in good standing.
All Christians go soul winning because they have a burden for the lost. Why would you not want to go soul winning unless your heart wasn't right? If you prayed through one time and got ahold of GOd, you would quit being selfish and go pick someone up and bring them to the House of God!
Etc...
I think this suffices.
Thanks for asking about my background, maybe we are making progress in our conversation. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 683
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:46 pm: |
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"Name one scripture that you think they misinterpreted to create the cultic mind control."
I can't leave out the one of the best:
'touch not the Lord's anointed and do My prophets no harm.'
This means those that are preachers, especially pastors are above any questioning, any scrutiny... and to even think about it is the devil tempting you to sin. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 247
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.214
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:51 pm: |
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SSV..I noticed you spend a lot of time on the NTCC thread..so I went over there yesterday...I agree they are a cult-I especially got a kick out the hairbuns thread...too funny but so true-why do churches try so hard to restrict women-yet when I think about churches aren't the only places that do this..the world around us does too-did they learn this from puritans?
The treatment of women in society is similar to the persecution jews received under Hitlers reign... Pastor Rob Bell said this in his book Sex God. He is a pastor here in my city who has gone under harsh criticism for allowing women to play leadership roles in his church.... |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 684
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:15 pm: |
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"He is a pastor here in my city who has gone under harsh criticism for allowing women to play leadership roles in his church...."
KJV: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
Well, can you blame the critics, he is totally defying Paul.
I mean, how can the women remain silent and lead at the same time? Pantomime? Sign Language?
Liberal Christians are just namby pamby spineless jellyfish afraid to claim their authority in God and do what's right... lovers of the world, that's what they are. 
Well, I'm here to tell ya, it's still holiness or hell. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 685
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:22 pm: |
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"did they learn this from puritans?"
No, how far back in history do you want to go? The bible records that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. We all know what concubines are, don't we? Sex servants.
Abraham, several wives.
David, same.... same with other cultures. Most had more than one wife. Since women are generally weaker physically, they have generally been victimized throughout history by mean spirited men, who were able to do so in and dominated them in a male dominate society.
Actually the bible nowhere forbids polygamy. I find that interesting. Paul did promote one wife/one husband... but the times were not ready for a women's lib movement. It is funny to think that not too long ago in this country women couldn't vote.
As an aside, a study of Islamic law and their treatment of women is eye opening. |
grace2u
Intermediate Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 219
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:40 pm: |
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Since women are generally weaker physically
And/or women are "possibly" smarter and would never want 700 husbands and 300 concubines. |
grace2u
Intermediate Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:46 pm: |
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As much as the carnal person has all sorts of stupid comments it is best that I just say:
In the beginning - God may one man and one woman. That was his plan.
Mankind messes it up.
Still - Paul also promoted singleness (which certainly has it's value).
Then again - I suppose if you are married to someone that has all those wives and concubines you don't get your hopes up too much for a relationship. Pretty much like being single if you ask me.
(Message edited by Grace2u on July 07, 2007) |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 688
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 8:53 pm: |
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"And/or women are "possibly" smarter and would never want 700 husbands and 300 concubines."
From what I recall, one wife was more than enough. I could not even begin to imagine two. Solomon may have been very wise, but sometimes I wonder if his wisdom failed him in the matter of women.
Singleness is peaceful, if nothing else, Paul was onto something there. Of course, he also expected Jesus to return to earth in his lifetime.
I am now on an official posters' union posting break. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:36 pm: |
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I do not recognize that church as being a Christian Church. Certainly not one I would attend or ever consider Christian. They are legalistic Pharisees who refute the purpose of Christ's purpose in coming. That is a cult!
That is NOT Christianity. That appears Christian on the outside but is no way Christian on the inside. You are wrong for attacking Christianity for your experiences in that whacko cult!
You were wrong for turning your back and denying Christ because of your experiences with that cult.
You really don't know Christianity do you?
Let's take one scripture at at time. From the top. You were paraphrasing. Can you give Book, chapter, verse and translation please. Thanks. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 689
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:54 pm: |
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"That is NOT Christianity."
You are not really listening to me franklin and it is becoming tedious. So I will go into more detail. I was a Christian before I attended that church. Second, you may call them whatever, but they accept and believe in the same fundamentals you do. For the most part. Lastly, I was a Christian for many years after that church and attended a non-denominational non legalistic church. So what is your point?
"You were wrong for turning your back and denying Christ because of your experiences with that cult."
Don't go off the deep end on me Franklin, OK? First, I still believe in a lot of what many Christians believe.
THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US, is you hold to inerrancy and I do not. You do not want to confront that for whatever reason, and I think you are simply obfuscating the issue, whether you are aware of that, or not.
"Let's take one scripture at at time. From the top. You were paraphrasing. Can you give Book, chapter, verse and translation please. Thanks."
I will give you chapter and verse if you really want. I am not sure were you are going with it though. If you are attempting to show the verses were twisted, well, they certainly were. OUt of context? Yes they were. But these verses are not mentioned in my inerrancy thread as contradictions nor errors, let's not sidetrack... |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 690
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:01 pm: |
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"you think they misinterpreted"
You see, I limited my answer to this qualifier you presented.
I already aknowledge they are mostly misinterpreted. Some maybe not totally misinterpreted, just taken very literally and to an unhealthy extreme.
Are you wanting to prove they are not? |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 691
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:08 pm: |
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Look franklin, we have totally hijacked this thread. If you want to continue this, I will be laying in ambush over at the inerrancy thread. 
The topic of this thread is what is the truth about religion. It is a theological thread, not relevant to cults per se, you seem to be wanting to focus on cults, maybe I am a distraction. If so, maybe we should both break and go to our respective corners. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 55
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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How can they believe in the same fundamentals that I do when they believe you have to work your way to heaven? Dress a certain way. Wear your hair a certain way? Tithe a certain way? Submit to man and not God only? That's not Christianity! Closer more to Judaism or Mormonism than Christianity. Christ overturned all of that legalism. Yes if you want let's go over one verse at a time and show how it was twisted. Once done then you will see the Bible has no contradictions. God does not contradict God. Only the human mind does. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 692
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.15
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:31 pm: |
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Franklin, I am sorry but you are going off track.
The contradictions I have presented are listed on the other thread, they do not involve this subject.
Really, this whole last topic was pretty much a straw dog I helped you set up so you could knock it down.
Prove you were in a cult, you say to me, pretty much.
So I do,
Then you say AH HA! You were in a cult, you don't know what Christianity is.
"You really don't know Christianity do you?"
Do you?
Here, this is pretty much their doctrine in a nutshell are they Christian?
The Scriptures
The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16) presenting to us the complete revelation of His will for the salvation of men, and constituting the Divine and only rule of Christian faith and practice (2 Peter 1:2 1).
The Godhead
We believe there is but one true and living God, who is everlasting, infinite in power, wisdom and goodness; that He is the Creator of all things, visible and invisible, and Preserver of all things (Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:16). In the unity of this Godhead, there are three persons of one individual essence, who are co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal; namely, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 3:16, 17; 28:18, 19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 1:1,2, 18; 10:33; 14:26; 15:26; Philippians 2:6; Hebrews 9:14).
The Son is the eternally begotten of the Father, and accepted earthly limitations for the purpose of incarnation, being true God and true man; conceived by the Holy Ghost and born of the Virgin Mary. He died upon the cross, the just for the unjust as a substitutionary sacrifice, and all who believe in Him are justified on the grounds of His shed blood. He arose from the dead according to the Scriptures. He is now at the right hand of the Majesty on High as our great High Priest, and He will return again to establish His Kingdom of righteousness and justice.
(Message edited by still_small_voice on July 07, 2007) |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 693
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.15
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:38 pm: |
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The Holy Spirit is a Divine Person, Executive of the Godhead on earth, the Comforter sent by the Lord Jesus Christ to indwell, to guide and to teach the believer, and to convince the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
Man, His Fall and Redemption
Man is a created being, made in the likeness and the image of God, but through Adam’s transgression and fall, sin came into the world (Romans 5:12). "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). "As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3: 10). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the work of the devil, and gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man to God (1 John 3:8).
Salvation
Salvation is made possible through the meritorious work of Jesus Christ on the cross and through Holy Spirit conviction. Godly sorrow works repentance and makes possible the experience of the new birth, and Christ formed within us is the gift of eternal life (Titus 2:11; Romans 10:13-15; Luke 24:47; Titus 3:5-7).
Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the Law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God (Ephesians 2:8).
Man is a free moral agent and can at any time after the new birth experience turn away from God and die in a state of sin; with the consequences of hell to look forward to.
The Ministry
God, through the Holy Spirit, definitely calls such as He desires to serve as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, and specifically endues the one called with the talents and gifts peculiar to that office or offices (Ephesians 4:11-13). Under no circumstances should anyone be ordained or set apart to any such office unless the calling is distinct and evident.
Water Baptism
Baptism in water is by immersion, a direct commandment of our Lord
(Matthew 28:19), and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the
Christian’s identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection
(Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).
The following recommendation regarding the water baptism formula is adopted, "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire (Matthew 3:11), is a gift from God, as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation, and is received subsequent to the new birth (John 14:16, 17; Acts 1:8; 2:4, 38, 39; 10:44-48). The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is accompanied by the speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance as the initial physical sign and evidence (Acts 2:4).
Sanctification
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive, work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the consummation of salvation (Hebrews 13:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 12 Ephesians 5:26; 1 Corinthians 6:11; John 17:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:23). |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 694
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.15
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 10:43 pm: |
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The Lord’s Supper
The ordinance of the Lord’s Supper is a commandment of our Savior; and being a memorial to His death and resurrection, is strictly limited to Christian believers (1 Corinthians 11:27). The time and frequency of its observance is left to the discretion of each congregation (1 Corinthians 11:26).
Only unfermented grape juice, the fruit of the vine, as recommended by our Lord (Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18) shall be used in connection therewith.
Hell and Eternal Retribution
The one who physically dies in his sins without Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the Lake of Fire, and therefore has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or for repentance (Hebrews 9:27). The Lake of Fire is literal (Revelation 19:20). The terms "eternal" and "everlasting" used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned (Matthew 25:41-46) in the lake of fire, carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence, as used in denoting the duration ofjoy and ecstasy of saints in the presence of God.
Divine Healing
Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God, through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands (Mark 16:18; James 5:14, 15). It is provided for in the atonement ofChrist and is available to all who truly believe.
Tithes
We recognize the scriptural duty of all our people, as well as ministers, to pay tithes as unto the Lord (Hebrews 7:8).
Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and work of the Lord in general and not given to charity or used for other purposes (Malachi 3:7-Il; Hebrews 7:2; 1 Corinthians 9:7-lI; 16:2).
Which part of the doctrines do you disagree with?
See, they teach you can lose your salvation. So if you want to keep it, you need to keep believing... faith without works is dead... if a person is saved, they will believe these things, and abide in the fellowship and work in faith. This is how they get around the legalism charge.
They don't advertise the negative authoritarianism though.
But they are both Christian, by definition, and a cult, by practice.
A Christian Cult. They do exist. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 695
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:07 pm: |
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Religion
noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
A relationship is not a religion. Therefore a relationship with God is not found in a religion. It is personal, if real, dynamic and fluid.
Religion is a hindrance to a relationship, and simply a set of formally agreed upon beliefs. The more complicated and detailed, the more harmful.
Freethinking is not able to operate within the confines of it, and a personality can be crushed within it.
I have found life outside religion to be fulfilling, happy, and rewarding.
A belief in God is not dependent upon the acceptance of a set of beliefs established by an outside authority...
There is no true religion, there is only truth. The truth about religion is, the sooner a person outgrows it, the more capable they are of growth.
That's all I have to say about that. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 248
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.67
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:28 pm: |
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Well yes, this thread has gotten off track...so if you could- move your ideas up to inerrancy thread....
SSV-I am well aware of all the verses and situations in which women were disgraced upon in the Bible...I do know however that it was the time period and ignorance that has led to such stupidity and no one should be taking that book literally-that is DANGEROUS!
Now if one wants to focus on the Christ of this religion so be it-he seemed to like women(Mary Magdelene) and show mercy upon them(adulterous female at the well).
SSV said "one wife was enough" now that was a bit sexist too, in it's own way wasn't it but common sense tells us that the heart can only really handle one indepth (eros) relationship..
So in conclusion..it is as I say-LOGIC AND REASON ACCOMPLISH MORE THAN RELIGION! God cannot be contained by books and beliefs of old...If you are a christian-remember the words of Larry Norman who said..."I'm not religious I just love the Lord" Christians could gain more respect by focusing on that aspect.
(Message edited by rachelengland on July 07, 2007) |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 696
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:53 pm: |
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"now that was a bit sexist too in it's own way wasn't it"
Quite right and intentionally so, ummm
what's wrong with bein' sexist? ?? 
Women! barefoot and pregnant is the state God intended. And cooking and cleaning their true callin'
See, God has it all worked out.
Amen? |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 249
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.67
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 12:02 am: |
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That's not in the Bible..where does it say that??(LOL)
Women barefoot and pregnant..now certainly they aren't physically the weaker sex....men are whimps..they can't handle a stubbed toe..let alone giving birth |
grace2u
Intermediate Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 221
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 1:10 am: |
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OK - I know I'm going to regret this but my mid-aged perspective is the whole reason that fairy tales were created was to try to convince the women that it just wasn't a horror story - you know so they added a happy ending.  |
grace2u
Intermediate Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 222
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 1:12 am: |
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I should add that it isn't God that makes it a horror story - maybe it was he that was the smart one that created the thought of a happy ending to get everything back in line. |
grace2u
Intermediate Member
Username: grace2u
Post Number: 223
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.178.195.217
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 1:20 am: |
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I think the barefoot part sounds great!
And I think being pregnant is a blessing but sometimes you can be too blessed.
And SSV - you forgot to add and bring home the bacon too. For many women (I have to admit that I don't completely fall into this category) they have to do it all. Still - I've never had the option to just cook and clean. Might like it. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 6:33 am: |
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I have started a new thread under the NTCC topic to continue this discussion. See you there.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/32521.html?1183890650 |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 698
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.71
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 8:38 am: |
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Franklin, there is no need for you to hop over on the NTCC thread, it has nothing to do with this thread or this conversation. If my posts bother you so much, I will stop posting. If you wanted me to stop, all you had to do is quit responding. Honestly, I had no idea you felt so injured by my posts.
I will leave you alone. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
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 No you do not have to quit posting. You are not any challenge to my beliefs in Christ or that the Bible is inerrant. I do not feel threatened at all by your accusations. You say I am off topic here so I tried to take the discussion where I thought it really belonged. To tie it in with your experiences. Where you heard specific scriptures perverted and taken out of context. After all here is the introduction to this forum section:
Religious Cults and Sects
Potentially Destructive Religious Cults and Sects. Does your religious organisation use spiritual abuse to enforce cultic behaviour and mind control? What are your personal experiences? |
david_munson
Intermediate Member
Username: david_munson
Post Number: 135
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 63.22.228.137
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:51 am: |
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If one wants to be "religious" here is the formula.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
(nothing wrong with that is there?)
Relationship with God is different.
It is a living experience.
A journey of wonders and trials filled with hope and faith as well as disapointments.
A lifetime of growing in understanding of that which is unseen and eternal.
Like a child learning to walk is this life in the Spirit.
One has to relearn how to live when one chooses to live through the Spirit of God.
The natural physical life is much different than the life we find in the Spirit.
We have to leave what we know in the natural and learn to function in the Spirit putting aside the natural man so that we can engage the new man and walk in the new creation that God makes of us.COL.3.
"If" we have chosen to follow and believe that is.
Choice is the stepping off point.
John 3:16.
} |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 709
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 6:53 pm: |
|
"Religious Cults and Sects
Potentially Destructive Religious Cults and Sects. Does your religious organisation use spiritual abuse to enforce cultic behaviour and mind control? What are your personal experiences?"
Well, atheists are not a cult by any means, way shape, or form... yet, you converse with them... sometimes at length... what does this have to do with cults when you do this? It doesn't.
Oh, it is the atheists who started it saying Christianity is a cult. Now I don't believe that is true (that all Christians are cult members), but if they do... isn't it still their right to post on here? To express their views, especially if they remain civil?
Especially given that FACTnet is not christian in management, seems to be pretty secular. Have you looked at the links on the main pages?
Yes FACTNet complained about the SEVENTY percent theology threads... but they also decided to let them run on, without interfering. So if FACTnet management doesn't mind...
what's the issue with thoelogical debate at times? I find it interesting to debate or discuss things with people of so many diverse beliefs. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 85
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 9:29 pm: |
|
I wouldn't be so quick to rule out that atheism is not a cult. How do you come to that conclusion? Was not the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia a cult?
Ever hear of the Jacobins? That was a Deist cult.
Cults are more than religious though I do classify atheism as a religion despite atheist propaganda to the contrary. Have you ever witnessed two atheists not agreeing with each other? I never have. Free thinkers?
Cults are also religious/political, Not all atheists are communists but whenever you combine atheism and communism you have a cult. Many examples in recent history.
You seem eager to bash Christianity and looking for justification. I, personally, am sick and tired of factnet being an Atheism vs. Christianity forum when that is not it's purpose. Read my posts for the last 3 years. I have stated that continually. I would certainly not like factnet threads to get bogged down and threadjacked into Deism versus Christianity forum.
Deism is no threat to Christianity. No more than atheism. If either were we'd all be Deists since no one really wants to be an atheist. Deism is no more a cure for cults than atheism is.
People are not going to abandon their original faith when they leave a cult. They've already picked their faith. They need to recognize what was wrong and mind controlling about the cult they just left in order to not enter another one. Whether it be religious, political, military, corporate, family, social..... A cult is a cult. People need to come to factnet, learn how to recognize cultic behavior in one of those organizations so they can beware and keep out of their lives.
Not to be sold some new belief. A guy wrecks his Chevy. He rides with the tow truck driver to the bodyshop to get it repaired. You don't see Ford, Dodge, Toyota salesmen along the road shouting, holding big signs...
"Buy my 2007 Desim model"
"No, no look over here buy my 1984 Atheism model!
No, no look here, brand new Scientology model.
No if they want a Ford or any other car than a Chevy they'll go there.
Factnet is a body shop for broken spirits. Let them come here to heal. Not get sold.
You want to sell Deism? Please do it at another forum.
I am not here to proselytize Christianity. I am not here to defend Christianity. I do not want to. But I am forced to. Don't force me too. Your cheating the readers of factnet when you do. They are not here to hear about your brand of religion. Or mine.They are here to learn about cults.
You can help us all in helping people to learn about cults.
Whenever people are interested about Deism they will google Deism and go there.
Factnet is about cults Sidetracking them into a "Why Deism or some other "ism" is better than Christianity" is a public disservice and defeats the beginning and current purpose of factnet.
I started a discussion thread on NTCC to address specific perversions Bible scripture. That is the discussion you wanted. You have experience with NTCC and how they misused those scriptures to control people's minds. Join me there.
There is no truth about religion we can all agree upon except that we are all free to believe what we choose to believe.
The theological debate takes away from the posts that are actual public awareness about cults.
Someone who's family member, loved one is in a cult. This person googles "cults" on their pc. They end up here hardly finding any information on cults but goes through pages of atheists bashing Christianity....... What the....
Ya' get my drift?
I am trying to explain using logic and reason. Please see the logic and the reason in what I am saying. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 86
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 9:30 pm: |
|
There are other public forums on the internet where there is theological debate. Whether you insist on doing it here for whatever reason are you not only doing it for your own selfish satisfaction? Your own soapbox? Like the politics and religion thread. Subtitled BushBashers'RUs. More wasted cyberspace.
Do what you want. I will defend my faith if you attack it. Or you can help me and others here to discuss cults. C U L T S. And not be a distraction.
Who knows? You have a good mind. You are a good writer. You just might write something that keeps someone from joining a cult.
But you will not stop people from joining a cult by saying Christianity bad! Deism good!
I am not a moderator here. But I do see how factnet is abused. Others see it too.
If you are that bored come back to the SC threads. You wrote some good posts there that helped with cult awareness. If ever there is a cult there it is. And a racist cult to boot. Christianity is not a threat. Racism is.
People come here for cult information. We both have experience. Let's share it with them. Then let's let them decide what to believe. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 710
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 9:45 pm: |
|
"I wouldn't be so quick to rule out that atheism is not a cult. How do you come to that conclusion? Was not the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia a cult?"
After wrestling with the definition of what is a cult for some time now, it is my conclusion that what makes up a cult is separate from almost all common belief systems and involves other common factors and underlying themes which seem almost universal, in all cults, whatever the belief system except in extreme cases where the belief system itself is a cult, like satanism.
The definition of cult that I have heard from Christians as any belief which denies the diety of Christ, I totally disagree with. There must be a destructive and abnormal element to the group.
Usually it involves a dynamic leader, exclusivist mentality, fear, control, extreme world views... etc...
But just like there can be christian cults, yes there can, yes.. and there can be hindu cults, and Islamic extremism, and secualar cults. Business cults, some street gangs can almost be considered cults.
But one of the criteria for a cult is a group dynamic. Atheists tend to be individuals, not an organized group with a creed and tenets. I do believe it is a sad and pessimistic world view and philosophy, but, for example, my dad is an athiest, he is a good man, and not a cult.
"If you are that bored come back to the SC threads. You wrote some good posts there that helped with cult awareness. If ever there is a cult there it is. And a racist cult to boot. Christianity is not a threat. Racism is."
Franklin, arguing with watchman and some of those others... I think I would get farther hitting my head against a brick wall. They do not debate with manners, and they have an agenda. They are closed minded and frustrating to communicate with. If you are able to bear it, I give you credit for that. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 266
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.185
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 9:48 pm: |
|
"Deism is no more a cure for cults than atheism is". JF
No one is saying it is a cure Franklin. But if people were free to feel however they want about God without restrictions and fears..the world would be a much better place..out of kindness and respect I will not post articles that show where Christianity blows it time and time again..within it lies more chance for cults to continue to flourish-than any other religion out there-with all it's different sects and contradictions...RE
RE
(Message edited by rachelengland on July 09, 2007) |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 87
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 9:59 pm: |
|
had to slip that in there. Problem is with humans. Not God. That we can agree upon.
I say Christianity is Christ.
You say it is some cult leader.
Perception! |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:09 pm: |
|
"I will not post articles that show where Christianity blows it time and time again..within it lies more chance for cults to continue to flourish-than most any other religion out there-with all it's different sects and contradictions...
RE"
Uh oh... Rachel don't stir up the man! He seems to think deists are impotent spiritually and intellectally defective... haters of religion and ignorant and incapable of knowing God.
Well, maybe not that extreme, or is it?
You know, when I first heard of the concept behind positive deism, it didn't make sense to me. Why not point out what is wrong with, and criticize other religions? I am starting to see the wisdom in it though. When fundamentalists are confronted with deism, some feel threatened, don't know how to react... and struggle to classify it. So when a person who believes in one supreme mono-theistic loving God based on the universe, nature, logic and reason... and a universe of laws and order... and still believes in repentance, forgiveness, and good works... they still attempt to classify that as evil... but I wonder how they feel about doing that deep down?
Deism, or natural deistic philosophy... is free to operate from a flexible position of logic and reason... and also able to change positions, when reason calls for it, within broad parameters.. (like when science reveals new facts or evidence)
It is hard to debate against and usually ends up making people mad when the fallacies of the belief system being challenged are exposed.
Calm down franklin, this is not directed towards you.
So focusing on what is right with deism, rather than what is wrong with religions... as positive deism asserts... is kind of wise.
But to do that here would be
considered "proselytizing" and deists don't recruit. Plus it is hard to convert to something which requires one to think their way into.
One thing that is positive, as Rachel asserts... people are free to have and define their own relationship... not depending on others to interpret that experience for them, or direct and control their beliefs. A built in anti-cult due to the inherent independence if it.
This is a beautiful thing to me.
OK Franklin I will cease speaking about this topic as I do not wish to engage in a back and forth about it. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 89
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:19 pm: |
|
I am free to have and define my own relationship... not depending on others to interpret that experience for me, or direct and control my beliefs. A built in anti-cult due to the inherent independence if it.
So you've got nothing I haven't got. But ah! I have Jesus as my Savior. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 712
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:21 pm: |
|
"Ever hear of the Jacobins? That was a Deist cult."
No, they were a political group. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 90
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
|
No they were Deists. Ever hear of Robespierre? Reign of Terror ring a bell!
Sweep, sweep under the rung. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:29 pm: |
|
"I, personally, am sick and tired of factnet being an Atheism vs. Christianity forum when that is not it's purpose."
I agree with this, especially when a false dilemma is presented like there are only two possible choices - Athiesm or Christianity.
But I thought you enjoyed going round and round with Blue water...
It does become boring though.
And Christianity itself is not a cult.
Atheiem itself is not a cult.
FACTnet is a cult. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 91
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:37 pm: |
|
|
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 714
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:45 pm: |
|
Franklin, don't try to float that boat out here... what defined them as a group, was politics.
By definition it is impossible for desits to be a cult. A political group could consist of some deists, but the belief would not be connected to the group creeds or unifying principles or what makes the cult a cult.
It can't. It is impossible.
Deism is opposed to all the elements that are necessary for a cult to be formed... revolving around the faith itself.
It is simply another fallacy.
It is like saying the American revolution was sparked by a deist cult... because Benjamin Frnaklin and Thomas Jefferson were deists. Or saying that America was founded by masons, because George Washington was a freemason.
Thomas Jefferson (the third President of the United States)
Jefferson's interpretation of the first amendment in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association (January 1, 1802):
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
From Jefferson's biography:
"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'"
Jefferson's "The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom":
"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry....The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
We need more Thomas Jeffersons in the government. Not what we see today.
Anyway, you should prove correlation. Which you must in order to prove your point.
What is the connection between desism and the Jacobins which was the driving factor and determines that desim produced and sustained the cult?
And were they even a cult, or a political party? Are liberals a cult?
Hmmm, you might say yes to that.
And if you want to do guilt by association, I can simply start listing all the atrocities commited by orthodox and professing Christians. Which I won't because I think that "guilt by association" is a very weak argument. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 237
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:46 pm: |
|
"Have you ever witnessed two atheists not agreeing with each other?" Franklin, the only thing that atheists will always agree on is that there is not god. Beyond that we all have our own viewpoints about everything. If all religions ONLY believed that there is god, they would all agree as well. But since every religion wants to "own" god in their own special way, they argue and argue, and I love it.
Just to set the record straight, I believe Christianity IS a cult. By almost every definition in the dictionary. Not all of the individual sects of this cult are as dangerous as the others, but a cult non the less.
Anyones attempt to brand atheism as a cult or a religion is just embarassed by their own desires to embrace mysticism and the supernatural and want to include us in their little club.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. That is all. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 92
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:52 pm: |
|
Oh and here comes the ArchBishop Bluewater of the Factnet Diocese!
Yada! Yada! Yada! That's what the atheist propaganda says. Been there. Heard that.
But none of that is true. Move along now. No Peddlers or Solicitors allowed. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 715
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:01 pm: |
|
"But since every religion wants to "own" god in their own special way, they argue and argue, and I love it."
Why would you love that? But it reminds me of this summary quote:
Chief Joseph (Nez Percé chief, c. 1840-1904)
"Good words will not give my people good health and stop them from dying. Good words will not get my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves. I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and broken promises.
All men were made brothers. The earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it. You might as well expect the rivers to run backward as that any man who was born free should be content when penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases.
Suppose a white man should come to me and say, "Joseph, I like your horses. I want to buy them." I say to him, "No, my horses suit me; I will not sell them." Then he goes to my neighbor and says to him, "Joseph has some good horses. I want to buy them, but he refuses to sell." My neighbor answers, "Pay me the money and I will sell you Joseph's horses." The white man returns to me and says, "Joseph, I have bought your horses and you must let me have them." If we sold our lands to the government, this is the way they bought them.
Let me be a free man--free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to think and talk and act for myself--and I will obey your laws, or submit to the penalty.
We do not want churches because they will teach us to quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that. We may quarrel with men sometimes about things on this earth, but we never quarrel about the Great Spirit. We do not want to learn that."
And that is about as close as I can get to summing up what I think the truth about religion is.
I suppose it is time to change my FACTnet handle to Heathen_infidel...
No doubt that is what some will brand me as. Sigh. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 238
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:03 pm: |
|
Oh come on, Franklin. Can't you carry on a conversation. Why don't you discuss these points, or refute them with something rather than immature comments.
Please discount what I have said if you can. You made a comment about how all atheists are in lock step, I disputed it. Now, respond. That is how it works. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 239
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:07 pm: |
|
Why would you love that? The reason that I love it is just my way of saying to the people who take the bible as the infallible word of god, "Oh yeah? Why all the agument then?" For those that want to believe in god, I say walk away from religion and get closer to god. All of the inter-christian arguing shows me how far away from god they really are. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 88
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:14 pm: |
|
Hi "Still Small Voice" -- I never gave much thought to Deism before; but having read what you and "Rachelengland" posted, I was curious and did some research.
As I understand it, Deists reject all religious books that claim to contain the revealed word of God; and also reject reports of miracles and prophecies. But, they believe that God exists and created the universe, wants us to behave morally and that we have souls that survive death in an afterlife. Apparantly, they believe that God will judge us according to how we lived our lives.
Now, if Deists have no need to prove that other religious beliefs are wrong, then that would make them, in my mind, superior to most of the people who post here on FactNet. I don't know why we just can't let people believe what they want and just go about our business living our lives the best way we know how according to our beliefs. I think a person's life, the way it is lived, is a much better indication of a religious or non-religious belief system than having to tell everyone what one believes and that they are wrong not to do the same.
Be well and at peace.
Will |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 716
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:23 pm: |
|
"All of the inter-christian arguing shows me how far away from god they really are."
Yeah, really I am reminded recently of how deep down, one of my core principles is that I detest arguing about God. How did I then end up on FACTnet doing that very thing? See, it is a cult. Just kidding.
But Blue water... I have to say, arguing about God at all, even from the perspective of there not being one, is still argiung about God, in a sense, isn't it?
But, hey, to each their own... I certainly am not above it, I just think it is time to refocus. For me.
Like talking about life is not living... arguing about faith is not believing, talking about good works is not working, attacking falsehood is not necessarily the same as determining truth...
Life is in the living, not the talking. God is in the heart or mind and experience of life, not the ink.
And a moral athiest, in avoiding the pitfalls of cults, has that going for them... even f I disagree with the, what I see as, premature conclusion.
Later,
SSV |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 93
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:25 pm: |
|
ssv: "But I thought you enjoyed going round and round with Blue water..."
About as much as swatting blood sucking mosquitos. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 717
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:29 pm: |
|
Dodge, if you read that post up above of mine #711, I already pretty uch came to that conclusion. And I agree with you.
"Deists reject all religious books that claim to contain the revealed word of God"
YMMV with that one... in a sense morality and truth being seen as transcendent and universal, they could be seen to contain wisdom, moral truth, and teachings... but not God's revealed Word of Truth for all people of all nations to follow or die (hell). |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 240
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
|
Walk away from religion and get closer to god. I just ordered 1000 bumper stickers that say that. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 718
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
|
I like that... has a really good message. I want one! |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 90
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:42 pm: |
|
WALK AWAY FROM RELIGION AND GET CLOSER TO GOD!!!
Indeed; but what is your definition of "God," Bluewater2? |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 241
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 11:45 pm: |
|
I will leave it up to the believers to define god as they wish so they can start arguing.
I think there is a thread titled "Man invented god" somewhere on this forum that sums up my feelings on it. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 91
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:02 am: |
|
Well, I don't feel like pouring over dozens of posts in order to get to your belief about what "god" is. But if you create a bumper sticker that says "Walk Away From Religion and Get Closer to God," you are obliged to define your terms. For me, "God" is the sum total of our collective conscious/unconscious being; but has no real form other than what we, individually or collectively, give it. "God" is the white light of the void that is filtered through the prism of our individual consciousness and is given color and shape according to our understanding. As you undoubtedly know, since "God" is limitless, to define "God" is to limit "God." This is why Muslims are not allowed to portray Allah in any way, and why in the Old Testament Moses is given the commandment against graven images. Christians have the form of Jesus; Buddhist have the Buddha, and then there is Krishna...all collective representations of the Pure White Light of the Void, which cannot be named or described. Of course, with Christians, they have Christ's shadow, Satan, who represents all that they cannot admit within themselves and therefore project onto others, their enemies, their Kenites, their "dark side."
Just a thought. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 92
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:13 am: |
|
Time for bed. It's after midnight here in north-central Massachusetts. Play nice my fellow seekers of wisdom and truth.
Will |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 94
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:10 am: |
|
Well if you choose not to be part of an "organized" religion, whatever YOUR definition of that is then good for you! You are in a minority.
But is YOUR religion not "organized"? There is information websites on every religion possible on the internet and ways to join this group or that group of that religion and also to have fellowship, where to send money to, where to buy this book, that pamphlet, this bumper sticker...... all forms of organization.
Oh I see, you are holier and closer to God than me because YOUR religion is more loosley organized than mine. OOOOOO! Good for you! Aren't you SPECIAL! Such snobbery! Such crapola! "My religion is the religion of LOGIC AND REASON!
Who says so? YOU?
Some website you read say that? So therefore it must be true?
Give me a break!
Stop being a know it all snob!
We all know atheism is a crock!
"Walk away from religion to get closer to God"
Then when questioned the repeater of this slogan says there is no God. Huh?
How dumb is that?
What the hell does he know about anything? Nothing.
So the "r" word is what you hate? RELIGION! BOO!
THE BOOGIE MAN OF THE WORLD IS "RELIGION"!
I am not "religious". I am a Christian. How you want to define me as being "religious" (boo) is your definition of religious!
It's all hype. It's all opinion. It's all rhetoric! One person's religious propaganda heaped on others.
Quit pretending you've got something better than everyone else. You got something that may or may not work for you. It may be just your flavor of the week.
Next week it'll probably be Buddhism and reincarnation.
Funny, I don't hear Buddhists bashing Christianity.
Funniest thing I've heard all week was awakenone saying he was an "Atheist like most Buddhists".
How dumb is that?
I'd just advise you to not burn your bridges with the Christian community. They might be the ones you need to turn to when you have no food in your cupboards. Or need help paying your utility bills. Or be there for thousands whenever there is a need for disaster relief. Would all of this be there if there were NO "organized" religions. NO!
Trying to run around collecting aid from a group of Deists would be like trying to collect smoke with your fingers.
Or you could turn to what amounts to as an organized religion to millions of people. Government. Then your "God" would be whatever politician or bureaucrat that throws the most pork in your lap!
See there is a lot these websites that promote these flavor of the month religions DON'T tell you. Just one side. Their side.
All of this anti religious chatter on factnet is just childish. Unthinking, shallow minded. Self promoting.
"I'm better than you are because my religion is ABC." "I'm better than all you XYZers!"
Nose in the air! Snob!
That's all it is. Seems popular in some circles. ABC. "Anything But Christianity".
Maybe that is what you want for your life right now. Just start having some respect for other peoples intelligence and choices. Please stop shoving your brand of religion down our throats!
And bw I've got just two words for you. SHUT UP! |
trainedobserver
Intermediate Member
Username: trainedobserver
Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 198.49.119.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 10:04 am: |
|
franklin is engaging in his usual Christian 'bashing' hysteria. By accusing anyone who has genuine criticisms of Christian doctrine and practice with 'bashing'* he avoids the issues raised and presents the straw men of his cartoon notions of communism and atheism instead. What a bore.
*To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism. American Heritage Dictionary |
ihavesinned
Intermediate Member
Username: ihavesinned
Post Number: 139
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 64.122.1.158
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 11:52 am: |
|
Yeah, but I love it when he gets fired up. I feel the power of the holy something or other moving through him all the way over here in Seattle.
I especially like it when he says atheism is trendy or pseudo-intellectual.
""Walk away from religion to get closer to God" "
Isn't this basically what Jesus told the religious nuts of his time? |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 242
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:43 pm: |
|
It seems like if all of the god believers could at least agree that god cannot be defined or confined and eliminate organized religion the world would be a better place. Of course, all of the psuedo-intellectual preacher dudes would have to get a real job and quit sucking off the tit of those that are unable to think for themselves. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 243
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 1:11 pm: |
|
In your rambling post I am having a hard time figuring out who you are directing it at, so I will figure it is for me, your pal Bluewater2.
You are in a minority. Thanks for the compliment. So are scuba divers.
Stop being a know it all snob! You talkin' to me? (He says looking in the mirror, drawing his weapon, taxi idling outside.)
We all know atheism is a crock! Could you more accurately describe who "we" is?
Then when questioned the repeater of this slogan says there is no God. Huh? I am just trying to help those lost in the back and forth banter between xtian sects that can't seem to agree on anything. See, I am a loving and giving person. I'm just trying to help.
How dumb is that? Since when is charity dumb?
What the hell does he know about anything? Nothing. I sure know how to get you all worked up.
So the "r" word is what you hate? RELIGION! BOO! BINGO!!!!
THE BOOGIE MAN OF THE WORLD IS "RELIGION"! BINGO AGAIN!!!
I am not "religious". I am a Christian. Sorry, you are religious, and you sound fanatical at that.
It's all hype. It's all opinion. It's all rhetoric! One person's religious propaganda heaped on others. That is a great description of your religion. Bravo!!!
Quit pretending you've got something better than everyone else. You got something that may or may not work for you. It may be just your flavor of the week. I have never said I have something better than everyone else. But, even you admit, atheists don't argue much. Can't say that about all of the christians around here. I think they are waiting for you over at the NTCC thread so you can argue with them some more.
Funny, I don't hear Buddhists bashing Christianity. Strike one of for Buddhism then. Definately a more tolerant religion than christianity.
Funniest thing I've heard all week was awakenone saying he was an "Atheist like most Buddhists". What's funnier is that you think that Buddhists believe in god.
I'd just advise you to not burn your bridges with the Christian community. They might be the ones you need to turn to when you have no food in your cupboards. Gee, there is a good reason to compromise logic and reason.
See there is a lot these websites that promote these flavor of the month religions DON'T tell you. Just one side. Their side. What the hell are you talking about here?
"I'm better than you are because my religion is ABC." "I'm better than all you XYZers!" I also am amazed at how all of these religions just can't seem to agree. Another reason to discuss with logic and reason the benefits of becoming "religion blind".
And bw I've got just two words for you. SHUT UP! Riiiiiiight. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 93
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 1:34 pm: |
|
Franklin, do you know that you sound like an intolerant religious fanatic? More like a donald duck version, jumping up and down, spit flying out of your mouth losing all control. Why do you feel so threatened when non-Christians express their opinions? Telling other posters to "SHUT UP!?" Are you trying to suppress our rights to freedom of speech? I think you need a break, go for a walk and smell some roses. |
ihavesinned
Intermediate Member
Username: ihavesinned
Post Number: 140
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 64.122.1.158
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 4:03 pm: |
|
He's afraid we might be right. |
yaakov2
Intermediate Member
Username: yaakov2
Post Number: 185
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.192.99.67
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 4:30 pm: |
|
Dodge, that is freaky. When reading Franklin's post, I got a similar mental image; of him typing with spittle flying out of his mouth. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 96
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 4:47 pm: |
|
Getting some things off my chest might seem to bother you guys that are very insecure in your beliefs but too bad. But whenever I type any of my posts it is always in a very calm state of mind but thanks for caring.
Now can we go back to the discussion of cults which Christianity is not? |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 94
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 4:52 pm: |
|
Very calm? Like when you told Bluewater to SHUT UP!? |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 244
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 4:54 pm: |
|
Hi Yaakov. I left a response to a comment you made in the Politics and Religion thread. I always value your point of view. If you get a chance . . . . |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 5:05 pm: |
|
If you are ever in the Newburyport, Massachusetts area...one of the best places to eat is the Bluewater Restaurant, at the corner of State and High Streets. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 97
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 5:09 pm: |
|
Telling bw to shut up is veeeeeery calm compared to many of your posts buddy!
So this is the NEW dodge? The 2007 model. Holier than thou? |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 96
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 5:23 pm: |
|
Give me an example of what you're talking about, Franklin. My posts have always been calm and rational. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 98
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 5:28 pm: |
|
All together now!
|
turtle
Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 92
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.224.13
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:01 pm: |
|
Post by Jeff franklin
Getting some things off my chest might seem to bother you guys that are very insecure in your beliefs but too bad. But whenever I type any of my posts it is always in a very calm state of mind but thanks for caring.
Now can we go back to the discussion of cults which Christianity is not?
Amen! Jesus is Lord |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 245
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:18 pm: |
|
I have never understood the phrase, "Jesus is Lord." Shouldn't it be "Jesus is THE Lord"? It just seems like proper grammar. |
dodge
Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 97
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:29 pm: |
|
Franklin, I think you owe Bluewater an apology. Just say, "I'm sorry that I told you to shut up, I had no right to do that." Be a man. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 246
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:25 pm: |
|
Not a problem, Dodge. I expect it and am used to it. As a matter of fact, when I can get him that riled up at 6 in the morning, I just shake my head and say to myself, "I hope he isn't going diving today." I care that much. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 99
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 7:46 pm: |
|
Oh it felt real good to say that.
That is all part of being a man.
Sometimes you have to stand up to a bully and say 'SHUT UP!" |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 247
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 8:10 pm: |
|
Is that in the bible somewhere? |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 267
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.250
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 8:37 pm: |
|
Dear Lord what's going on here...SSV did you do this
Franklin,I did not like your comment about deists and charity...just because I am a "Psuedo-intellectual" doesn't mean I don't have a heart! You know better....
Now on to another topic...when I am with Franklin this is the typical factnet senario..
Franklin sits down at computer-logs on to factnet...and I hear in a distance "OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDD"!!! Can you believe this $%#@ No Yaakov- there isn't any foaming at the mouth-he is just writing what he feels.. And you guys no it's a bore around here without him! It all makes for good conversation-who would of thought two scuba divers could be so darn entertaining!
I did love IHS's comment about feeling the Holy something all the way in Seattle" That was hilarious!
Don't label others..it's a form of prejudice to do so... |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 719
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:05 pm: |
|
"Dear Lord what's going on here...SSV did you do this"
Me? why.... all I do is stir the pot now and then, I have nothin' to do with the flames. 
"Don't label others..it's a form of prejudice to do so..."
But labeling as a form of postjudice is OK, right? I always thought that was OK... I mean, after you have judged, why not label?
"Can you believe this $%#@"
Saint Franklin using that kind of language? Oh my! |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 720
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:11 pm: |
|
"I just ordered 1000 bumper stickers that say that."
Here are two more ideas:
Religion: the lazy mind's philospohy.
Religion: The anti-brain. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 721
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:12 pm: |
|
"I just ordered 1000 bumper stickers that say that."
Here are two more ideas:
Religion: the lazy mind's philosophy.
Religion: The anti-brain. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 722
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:24 pm: |
|
"Well if you choose not to be part of an "organized" religion, whatever YOUR definition of that is then good for you! You are in a minority."
Well, given that there are so many religions, many of which claim to have the truth and the only way, or 'better/perfect' way... and only one of them can be technically the "true" religion, theoretically... if for the sake of the argument it is conceded that one could be correct...
Would it be better for the followers of the other hundreds of religions that are wrong, to be free of that false religion, or better to be deceived and attempt to deceieve others?
"I am not "religious". I am a Christian."
Well then. that being the case, you should see the pitfalls of religion and rejoice when people are set free from it.
Or am I not getting it? |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 269
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.250
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:26 pm: |
|
"St Franklin using that kind of language" SSV...listen don't label him-he is a Christian but he's not a prude-he'd never make it the NTCC.
Order whatever bumper sticker you like as long as it isn't the one that says "want to save a whale-harpoon a fat chick" That has me real ticked off today-religion and the world continue to treat females like trash and if any of you guys just laughed at that-you better take a good look at your character and morals! RE |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 723
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:33 pm: |
|
"listen don't label him-he is a Christian but he's not a prude-he'd never make it the NTCC."
Hmmm this dude might not be half-bad. A little emotional at times though. I think we should all live like robots, or so some would think.
"want to save a whale-harpoon a fat chick"
KNEE SLAP! that's a good one. Classic that one. I am, like, choking right now I am laughing so hard...
(just kiddng) |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 270
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.250
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:46 pm: |
|
Is that true..were you laughing?
SSV........you're a bit naughty-but I like you |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 724
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 9:59 pm: |
|
"Is that true..were you laughing?"
Nothing more than the lightest of chuckles, I assure you.
"and if any of you guys"
So, hmmm, what about the female readers, it is OK for them to laugh? huh? Do we have a sexist, man hater's club, double standard here?
Why would you presume the men to be more prone to laughing than any female readers? Hmmm? Are we looking upon the world with a filter jaded by stereotypes? Hmmmm?
OK OK, this is one pot I DO NOT WANT TO STIR, even in jest.
It jest ain't safe. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 271
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.250
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 10:14 pm: |
|
No SSV I am not a feminist-deist(LOL)
When I said "guys" I meant everyone....no biggie- that sticker just hit me the wrong way today-maybe I am being too sensitive-but we could never say harpoon a fat black man or asian, latino or gay person..that's all.
Oh, anyone who knows me around these parts knows............ I am not a man hater!!!! Not me, noway! |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 249
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 10:20 pm: |
|
How about, "Don't pray in our schools and we won't think in your churches" |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 727
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 10:44 pm: |
|
"but we could never say harpoon a fat black man or asian, latino or gay person"
Because "save a whale, harpoon a ________" isn't funny.
Also, to a great extent... unless there is a medical condition... overweight people can lose the weight. It is a choice. So if they want to be equated with blacks and the civil rights movement, I think that is undeserved and intellectually dishonest.
Now I will tell a story that will make you think I am a pig.
While I was shopping the other day, there were two obese women, I mean like, obese women pushing their carts... singing aloud to the song playing in the store... "I am beautiful, in every single way Yes, words can't bring me down ... " da de da..
I thought to myself... I bet they know it by heart.
I felt like shouting at them... you don't have a disease, you are unattractive physically, and you can change!
But I just threw a frozen dinner in the cart instead and rolled on.
I think over sensitivity is indicative of some low self esteem. But I am a pig, as I have said.
Really, non-kosher. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 728
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:24 am: |
|
"No they were Deists. Ever hear of Robespierre? Reign of Terror ring a bell!"
Robespierre was involved in politics and french enlightenment philosophy, but not a deist. Close, but not. Ironically, he was an enemy of Thomas Paine, and Thomas Paine was imprisoned in Fance at one point and almost died there. By sheer luck he managed to not be executed.
Thomas Paine, as you may know, was a very outspoken deist. So your history, whilst useful in a debate, is not completely accurate in facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
"threadjacked into Deism versus Christianity forum."
There are only two deists out of 13000 registered users that I am aware of. There are numerous Christians, many of which are disputing among themselves on here. I think you will suffer no distraction or harm from the deist perspective tossing in a couple of cents worth of opinions now and then.
Surely a thread entitled the "truth about religion" is not limited to cults?
"I started a discussion thread on NTCC to address specific perversions Bible scripture. That is the discussion you wanted. You have experience with NTCC and how they misused those scriptures to control people's minds. Join me there."
No, that is the discussion you wanted. Or wanted me to want. I never requested it. The only thing I requested was for you to meet me over at the bible contradiction threads because we were taking over this thread with our back and forth.
My conversations with you have nothing to do with NTCC. If I want to post about NTCC, I know how to get there. I am not going to be bullied into going where you tell me to, just because you think it is best for everyone involved in FACTnet.
I would assume you can see that is unreasonable. |
jeff_franklin
Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 100
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 4:31 am: |
|
Sorry but you can't sweep Robespierre and the Jacobins under the Deist rug. That is intellectually dishonest and makes for a mighty bumpy rug. The Jacobins fully qualify as a Deist mind control cult and Robespierre was their cult leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre
"Robespierre's desire for revolutionary change was not limited to the political realm. He sought to instill a spiritual resurgence in the French nation based on Deist beliefs. Accordingly, on 7 May 1794 Robespierre had a decree passed by the Convention that established a Supreme Being. The notion of the Supreme Being was based on ideas that Jean-Jacques Rousseau had outlined in The Social Contract. In honor of the Supreme Being, a great celebration was held on 8 June. Robespierre, as President of the Convention, walked first in the festival procession and delivered a speech."
http://www.mediamouse.org/reviews/041307the_i.php
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-63233.html
http://chi.gospelcom.net/DAILYF/2002/05/daily-05-07-2002.shtml
http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-156154/Deism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Religious_persecution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason
http://www.reginaorthodoxpress.com/heoformyn.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/maximilien-robespierre
There are hundreds of links stating that Robespierre and the Jacobins were DEISTS.
A thread titled "The Truth about Religion" was started by someone who was pushing their own brand of religion. Pseudo buddhism the best I can figure. Just because this person was in error and was non germane to a cult awareness forum does not make it proper for others with a anti Christian agenda to continue that agenda that undermines the purpose of this forum.
Atheists are notorious for undermining the purpose of this forum and threadjacking sincere discussions of cults with their foolishness.
What is it that you are really against. Christianity or Cults?
If it is Christianity you are against then bye, nice to have met you.
If it is cults that you are against then welcome. Now let's talk about cults.
(Message edited by admin on July 11, 2007) |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 101
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 4:37 am: |
|
I can see that there was no back and forth on the "Bible Inerrancy" thread at all. No willingness to share and learn from one another. Dumping a bunch of paraphrased biblical scriptures, many without book, chapter and verse, and unwilling to sensibly discuss them one by one and to consider their historical context, context within the bible and how they have been perverted by humans through the years as they are today is unreasonable.
What difference does it make where the discussion is held? Being that factnet is a cult awareness forum (that you can not deny) and not a theological debate forum then the proper place for our discussion was the NTCC thread which is the cult that you were a member of and that perverted the scriptures that you falsely claimed were errors of the Bible.
You want to reinvent the wheel here and turn factnet into something that it is not. It is not a soapbox for you and I or anyone else to sell our brand of religion.
It is a public awareness forum for the discussion of cults. Please do not make factnet any worse than what it is.
If you care about people then help us to discuss cults. Thank you. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 272
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.113.149
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 7:03 am: |
|
"I think over sensitivity is indicative of some low self esteem. But I am a pig, as I have said".
Really, non-kosher.
Yes you are-have a good day.....R |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 273
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.113.149
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 7:07 am: |
|
"I think over sensitivity is indicative of some low self esteem. But I am a pig, as I have said".
Yes you are a pig. I wasn't speaking to the part that was "fat"(though overeating is an addiction just like smoking,drug use etc..) I was speaking to the part that was "woman" and that society thinks it is okay to still chose that gender to degrade in such a matter- is a shame.
Sorry folks, I am WAY off topic and will conclude my discussion here-have a good day.
PS-Franklin,you have to dig real deep on Robspierre-Deism had nothing to do what was happening there and to find one person in all of history who was a deist and blew it big time is NOTHING compared to the holy terror Christianity(of course not YOUR brand) has brought forth! If you want the bantor here to stop maybe you need to take the first step to being quiet and move along.
(Message edited by rachelengland on July 11, 2007) |
saygoodnightgracie
Intermediate Member
Username: saygoodnightgracie
Post Number: 129
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 216.24.241.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 8:53 am: |
|
Que pasa amiga?
El espanol mio esta malo, lo siento!!
Pero, yo y espero recibio tu el CD, que yo mondo?
Los Zucaritas son muy, muy buenos...
Adios amiga! |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 250
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 9:54 am: |
|
Christianity is a cult. Websters dictionary defines it as one. Too bad that the religious community has done such a nice job of redefining cult to be something evil.
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 729
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:08 am: |
|
"If you care about people then help us to discuss cults. Thank you."
Why don't you lead by example noble fellow.
How considerate of you to define for us what is required to do and say if we "care about people".
How many theology threads are there on FACTnet? There are many.
How many theology threads or discussions have you taken part in? More than a few, I know.
Does this represent a new you desiring to keep FACTnet pure? A FACTnet reformation.
Also, almost every cult has some type of theology-and most share certain elements with more mainstream groups, a lot of times the cult is simply more extreme than the majority... the theology and the cult doctrines are
intertwined ... Theology and cultism... are related, and who is to say where the line is drawn where one ends and the other begins. It is not all neat and orderly like some cookie cutter classification system. Freedom of speech and expression would error on the side of tolerating all viewpoints rather then censorship for the sake of "staying on track".
Look Franklin- FACTnet is aware of these threads. OK? This main thread is called doctrines/beliefs/proofs/religious practices almost every thing I have posted over here has fallen under that subject.
You might want to stay focused on what you define as worthy of discussion... others either do not want to focus as you do, they find these other subjects important, or some simply come over here to take a break from whatever cult they happen to be discussing on another thread.
FACTnet is aware of the theology threads and could close them at any time, if or when they are closed, that is when they will cease. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 730
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:46 am: |
|
"Websters dictionary defines it as one"
Well BW, if you want to get all technical 'sect' and 'cult' pretty much mean the same thing. Would you agree that not all sects or believers are destructive and controlling and that what we commonly consider a "cult" is, and very much so?
I mean, if this is the case, let's do away with the word 'religion' and just use cult, cults, and cultism. If there is no difference.
And let's be fair to your definition, if all Christianity is a cult, Judaism is a cult. And Jews are cult members/followers... would you agree? And don't you have Jewish family members? Are they cult members? And also buddhism is then a cult, and hindu, and every other religion... yet you focus much or almost always on Christianity... is this personal? And the vast amount of differences in thought, beliefs, and pracitices between these religions is overlooked for ease and simplicity- they are all cults. This is not really fair to the beliefs nor the adherents of them... especially given the negative connotation "cult" now commonly has.
The word used to be used interchangeably with "sect".
I think painting all religion with a broad brush and labeling "cult", when some groups are very controlling, and destructive, and many are not, and some are more true to their own belief system and some are not... is not wise to label them all the same. I do believe differentiating between the wacked out relgions- destructive groups and those that are more liberal, tolerant, and open minded... is much more productive.
But I will discuss theology on FACTnet, and not be limited to a narrow beam focus, as franklin wants.
And since Franklin, for example, won't debate openly or indetail or answer direct questions directly- I have no idea if he is one of those Christians that is a 'culty' Christian, or one that is not.
I am assuming that he leans toward more mainstream and not extreme fundamentalist. Yet, the main criteria for fundamentalism is this belief of an infallible, perfect, inerrant Bible- and some even claim the KJV to be that, and then expecting all people to believe that same thing also, to be accepted as saved or "part of the group". And that is just silly.
Take Lutherans, for example, some believe in inerrancy, and some do not... but they are all Lutherans... and allowed to be and accepted. The fact that those who do not, can operate in the group still- makes them not cultlike to me. Whereas a group which demands a person accept inerrancy to belong and be accepted- that is a group on the path to being awarded cult status by SSV.
(Message edited by still_small_voice on July 11, 2007) |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 251
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.91.232.230
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:03 am: |
|
Hi SSV. Yes, I would categorize all religous sects as cults by definition. Some are more destructive than others.
But certainly, Christianity and Islam are two of the largest cults out there.
To be given the choice of either discussing cults or attacking christianity, I say they are one in the same. FactNets purpose is the discussion of cults.
I would say that the discussion of the merits or lack thereof of the cult of christianity lies at the heart of the purpose of FactNet. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 731
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:09 am: |
|
"Yes you are a pig."
OH THE shame of it! The horror! EGAD! To be a pig, or not to be a pig, that is the question, Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die: to sleep....
"(though overeating is an addiction just like smoking,drug use etc..)"
exactly my point... exactly.
You don't see smokers catching much sympathy from the population for their addiction. They certainly don't fall under PC protection.
Just put on a bumper sticker that reads "Save a whale, harpoon a fat sexist pig" and call it a day.
I see what you were saying by the way. For some reason I focused more on teh fat part, and less and the chick part. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 732
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
|
"FactNets purpose is the discussion of cults."
And some people consider discussion "attacking".
There can be a fine line between civil debate and illogical and emotional arguing. Sometimes it is hard to stay objective. When it is kept to civil discussion, I think there is no problem at all with the subject of religion on here.
And for the record, I have found some of the atheists more reasonable and level headed at times to debate with than zealots of whatever faith or belief system. The belief system is like a built in filter which colors all perception of a subject and disallows much objectivity. |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:08 pm: |
|
Of course you find atheists reasonable and level headed. That's a no brainer.
Both of you have the same intense hatred for Christianity and Christians.
I read a lot of his same atheist propaganda in your posts.
If you like him so much marry him.
Same sex? No problem. Hawaii is the ticket.
Have your Pope Richard Dawkins marry you two there.
Aloha!  |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 733
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:19 pm: |
|
"Both of you have the same intense hatred for Christianity and Christians."
This is simply untrue. Obviously you care more about your agenda than facts.
"I read a lot of his same atheist propaganda in your posts."
Like_____ for example? If this is the case, I think you read it into it. What do you mean by "propaganda"?
"If you like him so much marry him." What kind of nonsense is this?
"Same sex? No problem. Hawaii is the ticket."
Actually, I believe homosexuality is against nature and therefore both immoral and unnatural. I don't push this on others though and afford them the right to live in peace like any other people. I don't believe the government has a right to legislate morality. I lean libertarian in this matter.
"Have your Pope Richard Dawkins marry you two there."
Franklin, how old are you? Sometimes what you write reflects a level of maturity that seems somewhat childish. What are you, early twenties? Late teens? |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 734
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:24 pm: |
|
And Franklin, are you totally ignoring the posts where BW and I disagree? Like above where I am discussing and presenting my view that not all religions are the same, that Christianity is not a cult in and of itself and that not all religions are equal... or elsewhere, where I have said that I find Christianity one of the most noble of religions?
This is hating Christianity and athesit propaganda? Get real.
Your attempt to paint averything black or white is similar to athesits at times. In this, you have more in common with them than I do. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 253
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:33 pm: |
|
Both of you have the same intense hatred for Christianity and Christians. I have stated many times that I do not hate Christians and you know it, yet you continue to say this. You are really exhibiting immature and revealing behaviors when you continue to say things that are simply not true.
Why do you do this? Is it perhaps what you are displaying is stereotypical cult-induced brainwashed symptoms from your many years of involvment in the christian cult? |
observer
New member
Username: observer
Post Number: 19
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.98.186.40
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 1:37 pm: |
|
According to some, a cult is a group that deviates doctrinally from a "parent" or "host" religion. Cults grow out of and deviate from a previously established religion. Out of Islam came the Sufis and the Nation of Islam. While these groups claim to be Muslim, they deviate fundamentally from the teaching of Islam, from which they are derived.
Cults of Hinduism include Hare Krishna, Self-Realization Fellowship, and Vivekananda. Using the term "Cult of Christianity" makes a clear distinction between Christianity and cults as well as highlighting the derivative nature of cults.
An individual with unorthodox views is a heretic, and does not constitute a cult. That person must gain a following before we can meaningfully speak of a cult. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, however, do qualify as cults of Christianity because they claim to be Christian -- to be the only true Christian group on Earth.
A group must hold to a set of religious doctrinal beliefs about God, sin and salvation to qualify as a cult. A group that makes no religious statements whatever -- even if eccentric in other respects -- is not a cult.
The core of Christianity are the doctrines of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian.
Cults deny at least one central doctrine of the Christian fauth. Denial of even one central doctrine is enough to make the belief system cultic. Cults typically deny more than one central doctrine. Jehovah's Witnesses deny the doctrine of the Trinity.
(from "Unmasking the Cults," by Alan Gomes) |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 737
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 2:10 pm: |
|
Defining what is 'a cult' is as subjective as, and you will find as many definitions as belief systems. Most people want cults to be defined as those that broke of from them or oppose them.
BW, no doubt, would argue Christianity broke off from Judaism and is a Jewish cult in essense. Many do argue that, and it would fit one of the criteria above.
Also, the definition of what is Christian above leans heavily on Catholic orthodoxy, and whether this was the original teachings of the very first Christians is open to debate. The evidence is sparse. The earliest copies of Christian writings we have still are from three centuries after the time frame of teh book of acts. One would have to hold to inerrancy to accept the definition above.
It sounds very much like a Christian orthodox definition of "what is a cult", but that viewpoint has no more authority to define it than anyone else. It is very subjective. Shall we go with the dictionary?
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
It is all very etherial and slippery... a concrete definition is almost impossible. A cult is usually what a person wants it to be. I see a cult as being determined by what a cult does. The actions and fruit determine whether it is or not. Most cults have very many things in common, whatever the belief system. Exclusivity and control being two things. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 255
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 2:18 pm: |
|
According to some, a cult is a group that deviates doctrinally from a "parent" or "host" religion. If we were to take it one step back and replace the word "religion" here with belief, I would go back even further than Judaism to what might be the "parent" belief that all of these cults stem from. I propose that the parent belief is agnosticism, or the lack of concern that there is or is not a god at all. This does not discount god's existance, just the notion that god does not need us to acknowledge this existance by anything other than respecting all that lives.
This would make all organized religions a cult and it seems that the dictionary supports this. Of course all religions want to paint anything that is not theirs a cult. As a matter of fact, I was reading in the paper this morning that the Pope has declared all people who practice any form of Christianity besides Catholicism as not saved. I would say that he is in essence calling all forms of Christianity besides Catholicism a cult. |
yaakov2
Intermediate Member
Username: yaakov2
Post Number: 193
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.192.99.67
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 2:23 pm: |
|
Bluewater and SSV
Regarding your discussion about cults, I think FACTNET is really setup to deal with “destructive cults”. The word “cult” itself is a derogatory word. When people label organizations as being cults or cultic, they almost always mean destructive cults.
A quick look at FACTNET’s mission statement http://www.factnet.org/mission.htm shows that they are against destructive or coercive cults.
FACTNET provides a list of common properties of destructive cults
http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
quote:The cult is authoritarian in its power structure.
The cult's leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and domineering.
The cult's leaders are self-appointed, messianic persons who claim to have a special mission in life.
The cult's leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves.
The cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of the behavior of its members.
The cult tends to have a double set of ethics.
The cult has basically only two purposes, recruiting new members and fund-raising.
The cult appears to be innovative and exclusive.
It is obvious that most Christian sects, as well as most other main-stream religions do not have all these properties. |
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 738
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 3:06 pm: |
|
I argued that very point. Vegetarianism could become a cult if a group set up a doctrine, went recruiting, taught separation and intolerance of meat eaters... etc.
They would still be vegetarians, but the cult aspects are separate from the belief in not eating meat.
Likewise a group can be Christians and a cult.
Or any other religion.
Also, one persons "benefical" is antoher man's "destructive" it can become a matter of perspective. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 256
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 3:37 pm: |
|
Destructive is definately the operative word here. I'll save that for later. |
observer
New member
Username: observer
Post Number: 21
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.98.186.40
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 3:50 pm: |
|
Here’s an example of a truly frightening cult, from the New York Post July 9, 2007:
A camp of Pakistani children is being brainwashed into a cult of misguided martyrdom, being trained as suicide bombers. Hundreds of boys and girls are holed up at a religious school complex, the “Red Mosque,” in Islamabad who want to die, thinking that real glory is to sacrifice their lives for Allah. The mosque’s leader, Abdul Rashid Ghazi, said the children are part of the struggle, which has resulted so far in the bodies of 30 young women buried in a mass grave inside the mosque grounds. Ghazi said that the boys are the first line of defense, then the girls, who have all sworn an oath on the Koran that they will fight to the death, and uses burqa-clad students as the shock troops in their "moral crusade."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07092007/news/worldnews/islam_death_cult_worldnews_dean_nelson.htm
And in China, Evangelical Christianity is considered a cult:
In Shanghai, China, two Protestant evangetlical ministers were sentenced to one year each in a labor camp on charges of “using an evil cult to obstruct the law.” China typically uses the vague anti-cult legislation to punish those worshipping outside the tightly controlled Communist Party-recognized church. The two ministers are to spend their year at a “re-education labor center.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/09/asia/AS-GEN-China-Banned-Church.php
And in Texas, CULT MEMBERS ARRESTED FOR TRYING TO BOMB CHURCH:
A group described as “radical Christian activists” who oppose government and organized religion attempted to detonate a bomb at Victory Family Church in Burleson, Texas; but were interrupted by a deacon. The group is said to share common beliefs about the demise of society, which they believe has become too focused on self-improvement and self-gratification and lost it’s focus on the glorification of God. They say they are attempting to wake society up by committing destructive acts. Group members believe there are too many denominations and churches, and there ought to be only one. Members of this group hold weekly Bible study and consensual fighting and involvement in destructive acts. They are considered “domestic terrorists” by the local police.
This group also set fire to a recycling bin because they believe the older generation is making the younger generation clean up the mess. The U.S. attorney plans on filing federal charges.
Talk about whackos.
http://www.cleburnetimesreview.com/homepage/local_story_187190847.html?keyword=leadpicturestory |
ihavesinned
Intermediate Member
Username: ihavesinned
Post Number: 145
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 64.122.1.158
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Did you see where the new pope has decided that Roman Catholicism is the only true christianity, and the only way to salvation? That ought to fire some people up around these parts huh... |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 274
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.159.5.164
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 6:53 pm: |
|
"Que pasa amiga?
El espanol mio esta malo, lo siento!!
Pero, yo y espero recibio tu el CD, que yo mondo?
Los Zucaritas son muy, muy buenos...
Adios amiga"!SGNG
Hola, Que Tal Papito!
Si tengo el CD-es muy diferente, su voz es como parte Shakira/parte Cher.
Gracias por tu amistad Y hasta luego.
Dios te bendiga y no como much Zucaritas-no quieres engordar! Ciao |
ba2
Member
Username: ba2
Post Number: 78
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 165.189.17.206
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 9:29 am: |
|
Hola rachel, ningunos de largo plazo ven!
Prefiero Cheerios. Bueno para el colesterol y mucho menos azucar.
Nuestro tiempo ha sido excepcional. Esta es la razon por la cual vivimos en el norte.
hasta luego. |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 104
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 3:38 pm: |
|
Sé no lo que estas señoritas de chicas escriben acerca de. Pero un hombre verdadero come los huevos, los granos de maiz, el tocino y untó con mantequilla el brindis cada mañana. Cholestrol es qué ayudan a mantenernos fuerte. ¡Grrrr! |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 262
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 3:57 pm: |
|
Maricone |
turtle
Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 99
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.224.13
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:02 pm: |
|
Once you all love to joke here I thought I share this. On a church sign the other day I seen where it said "Under new management" God and then later this same week they were having a church yard sale and hotdog sale. So the God of money i guess is in management. And who was in management before? |
dodge
Intermediate Member
Username: dodge
Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.232.85.226
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:23 pm: |
|
The Hot Dogs for Jesus Ministry. I'll take mine with mustard seed and a relish for the Lord. |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 105
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:26 pm: |
|
Gracias agua azul para salir del armario y revelando al mundo lo que usted es.
Aloha |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 263
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:30 pm: |
|
Gracias. |
turtle
Intermediate Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 102
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.224.13
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 4:37 pm: |
|
I am glad you guys are enjoying your hotdogs. yw franklin.
(Message edited by turtle on July 12, 2007) |
ba2
Member
Username: ba2
Post Number: 80
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 165.189.17.206
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 5:22 pm: |
|
Amo el tocino y los huevos y yo tambien amamos cherrios y no soy una senora!
ser franklin agradable! Pienso que somos justos teniendo una poca diversion. |
ba2
Member
Username: ba2
Post Number: 81
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 165.189.17.206
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 5:26 pm: |
|
también bluewater, seas agradable. |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 106
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 5:42 pm: |
|
|
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 206.148.112.145
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 8:06 pm: |
|
Hola Ba, Como estas? Hay mucho gente que pueden hablar en espanol en factnet...muy interesante-per tu espanol es mejor que todos!
Si, el tiempo es muy , muy lindo en nuestro parte. hay dos -tres dias de mucho calor y no me gusta esso-per hoy es perfecto 78 grados super lindo! Ciao me rey y vamos hablar mas tarde...
Oh- una cosa mas- dodge vos tienes un doble cara... |
saygoodnightgracie
Intermediate Member
Username: saygoodnightgracie
Post Number: 131
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 12.174.230.130
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 8:52 pm: |
|
Speaking of Shakira, Gwen Stefani just walked through the lobby... sans hot dog. |
turtle
Intermediate Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 107
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.224.13
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
|
I can bring you a salad if that would help. |
ba2
Member
Username: ba2
Post Number: 82
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 165.189.17.206
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 9:08 am: |
|
Hola otra vez rachel, he estado intentando aprender castellano pero es muy difícil para mi. Esta frustrando tan el tramposo de I poco, que marcas yo mirada muy buena! Pero es diversion de todos modos. Pero, piensas a franklin o el bluewater cogio mi comentario?
Necesitamos conseguir de nuevo a mi lengua materna - esto es muy dura para mi! |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 264
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 75.42.171.14
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:25 am: |
|
Of course. |
ba2
Member
Username: ba2
Post Number: 85
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 165.189.17.206
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 2:13 pm: |
|
very good blue! |
termin8d
Junior Member
Username: termin8d
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 60.234.129.189
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:13 pm: |
|
Bluewater, could you please if you don't mind, provide a very brief account of your opinion regarding the existence, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Do you believe He existed in human history? What about his death and resurrection? What do you think actually happened? |
jeff_franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: jeff_franklin
Post Number: 231
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 5:06 pm: |
|
dead silence..... |
termin8d
Junior Member
Username: termin8d
Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 130.123.225.69
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:57 pm: |
|
I invite any other non-Christians to add their 5 cents here. |
sharon
New member
Username: sharon
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 198.164.4.48
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 7:07 pm: |
|
Dodge you are such a card... thank for the chuckle.. again. |
rachelengland
Intermediate Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 328
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 4.158.210.240
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:03 pm: |
|
Many people on this forum want to jump all over those who follow christianity...Though I am longer a christian-I wanted to make sure we are fair when we point at that 3 big religions. Islam and Judaism pose their own dangers..this was in my email today..R
---------------
Children are impressionable. Their minds are like sponges waiting to learn and to grow. They are truly gifts from God and should be treated as such. To take these innocent minds and fill them with unnatural garbage should be a crime. Unfortunately, this is what Judaism and Islam are doing, filling the minds of their young people with ancient deadly lies.
As the story goes, God favored the Hebrews "above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deuteronomy 7:6) and gave them a huge chunk of real estate as a gift. This imaginary gift includes large parts of present day Egypt, Syria and Jordan as well as all of present day Israel and the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip. This fantasy real estate gift is taught as a fact by Judaism, as well as Christianity. When children are mislead to believe they are part of a chosen race that is above all others, only violence can occur as people of other races aren't about to be subjugated by the pretenders to superiority.
A sad example of this twisted mind-set can be seen in the acts and words of Jewish children during the recent removal of Jews from the Palestinian market in Hebron. When Israeli soldiers cleared religious Jews from the Palestinian area, Jewish children aged 10 and younger cursed at them and tried to determine which soldiers were "of their seed" and which were not. One Jewish child got eye ball to eye ball with a soldier and said, "It says in the Torah that I have to kill you. You are from the seed of Amalek . . . You are a goy [gentile] and you are not allowed to tread on this holy ground. Get out of here, you and your friends!"
Western media doesn't carry articles or stories about the Jews in Israel teaching their children Biblical hatred of goys. However, they do cover the same twisted mind-set of Islam. Recently Islamic television in Gaza had a program for children that taught them to hate the Jews and to kill them when ever they have the chance. The main character in the show was Farfour the mouse. In the show, the mouse was killed off by an Israeli as the Israeli was taking land from the Islamic mouse. Farfour was soon replaced by a man-sized bee named Nahoul. The bee continues where the mouse left off. On a recent show Nahoul said, "I want to continue in the path of Farfour, the path of Islam, of heroism, of martyrdom and of the mujahedeen. . . . We will take revenge on the enemies of Allah."
This ignorance based hatred should have no place in the 21st century! Unfortunately, reason has been kept out of our religious ideas. The Big Three Abrahamic "revealed" religions continue to hold us back from true progress while pushing us towards more senseless violence and even potential nuclear war. We must promote reason! What we DO today determines what kind of tomorrow we and our children and grandchildren will have.
The rest of this text promoted deism which I am not here to do..factnet isn't about promoting our religious choices but rather about fighting against the dangers certain religious ideas can pose on humanity..R
(Message edited by rachelengland on August 13, 2007) |
fatherofaking
Intermediate Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 225
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.157.134
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:40 pm: |
|
nice post R.
this kind of hatred is evidence
that what is being taught to these
children is clearly not the truth
that there religion holds.
hate will only be stopped with the teaching of the truth.
it is time for a change. |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 370
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.130.156.151
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:52 pm: |
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Religion erects barriers to peace. "Reject religion and get closer to god". All religions have an innate ability to be taken to the extreme because at their core is the need to put aside logic and reason for fundamentalism and blind faith. |
termin8d
Intermediate Member
Username: termin8d
Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 130.123.225.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 6:07 pm: |
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bluewater2: You talk about logic. In an atheistic world view, are there universal and absolute laws of logic or are they conventions? |
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 374
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.130.156.151
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:23 am: | |
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