| Author | Message | ||
     danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 104 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Recruiting and advertising tactics I have discovered over the last six months that the Indianapolis Church has an increasingly aggressive recruiting/advertising campaign. I have personally communicated with two individuals on two different continents (not in America) that have run into their cult activities and practices. My problem with this is that they say they do not recruit and make it sound like God is “bringing” all these people to them. It appears that the Indianapolis Church is paying per click to be listed on Google’s sponsored links. At the present time if you do a Google search for “mike peters” the right side bar will pull up “House Church or His Life” which is a link to allathisfeet.com. I thought Mike was just a “brother” amongst brothers. Why is this movement linked to one man? I also have compiled a list of current domain names that the Indianapolis Group is buying up. They all point to allathisfeet.com or some other Indianapolis initiative. Why do they need five or so websites; three of which redirect people to their main site? Does this seem creditable? • allathisfeet.com • housechurch.com • hisemptygrave.com • needanexit.com • yourkingdomcome.com • whereisthekingdom.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 72.77.151.59 |
This is so common place for them to say one thing and do another. So, according to their teachings as long as they talk about not drawing people to themselves that means they aren't doing it. They think talking takes the place of doing... By the way, didn't Jesus say this to the pharisees about where God's Kingdom is? Luke 17 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. I checked the site "whereisthekingdom.com" and they (Mike Peters and his followers) are routing people to themselves. It is as if they are saying "look here and see here". They are not pointing to Jesus alone but to themselves. | ||
| joythruchrist Junior Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Here's an interesting document that explains mind control pretty clearly: http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/formermember.aspx | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
danrepent says: "...they say they do not recruit and make it sound like God is “bringing” all these people to them. It appears that the Indianapolis Church is paying per click to be listed on Google’s sponsored links. At the present time if you do a Google search for “mike peters” the right side bar will pull up “House Church or His Life” which is a link to allathisfeet.com. I thought Mike was just a “brother” amongst brothers. Why is this movement linked to one man?" graceisenoughsays: "I checked the site "whereisthekingdom.com" and they (Mike Peters and his followers) are routing people to themselves. It is as if they are saying "look here and see here". They are not pointing to Jesus alone but to themselves." In light of what is said above, I ask you to check out the following blog, it's VERY telling... http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/11/review-of-meetings-in-his-kingdom.html | ||
| joythruchrist Junior Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
We received this from someone in an email who wished for me to post it here: MIKE PETERS I challenge you. If you have nothing to hide and nothing to risk, if you are SO certain that the things people are saying on this site and others are not true, then allow your people to read them, ALL your people, from the least to the greatest, and let them examine for themselves. If all they receive is what you are feeding them, how can they make a God given intelligent decision as to where THEY believe they should be. OPEN the doors, let them choose. If it isn't your little crusade you have to protect you would be willing. Or are you afraid your kingdom would end? | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I received the following text in purple in an email from a former member with whom I'm corresponding. (Not the same person as the above challenge post, BTW.) They gave me permission to post this excerpt explaining their take on the way the mind control stuff works: I also recall being stunned around that time for being condemned for something they said I thought. Exactly how can anyone actually know what THOUGHT may have crossed my mind at some random moment of the day? That just seemed like really dangerous territory to be getting into where now we are policing what we think someone else might have thought inside their head even though they never said it or acted on it in any way. But there was this mindset that the holy spirit revealed to someone else what we had been thinking and they'd talk it over so two or three agreed and thus it was clearly accurate because the holy spirit wouldn't make a mistake so you absolutely did think that thought whether you recall thinking that thought or not ... so repent! And they would be soooo certain that you'd start to think you MUST have thought that and just don't remember thinking that but surely if you pray and plead with god enough he'd help you remember that you thought that so then you could really repent because clearly you're the most depraved and wicked slug to ever slime across the universe and ... well you get the idea. It was a seriously psychotic spiral. joythruChrist@gmail.com (Message edited by joythruchrist on December 04, 2006) | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 322 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Some things to consider regarding any legalistic views of Christmas, including Mike Peters view: http://haven-of-grace.blogspot.com/2006/12/varying-views-in-december.html Hope you enjoy your December in Christ! denny.elslager@GMail.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
To the friend of joythruchrist who wrote the excerpt above in purple, I totally understand where you are coming from. I am sorry that they did this to you, too. There was a time when God allowed the tables to be turned on me when I confessed thoughts I'd had to three of the "leading ladies". I was very unstable as my marriage was in shambles and I confessed to wanting to be a part of the group because I was afraid that I may end up divorced. Anyway, I was then held at a distance and told repeatedly by one woman to "dig deeper". She kept telling me there was more she thought I was hiding and that I probably had this deep problem for years about friendship. After I had confessed all I could think of and them some,(over about a two week period) it still wasn't enough. I did see that I was in sin with caring more about the opinions of man. God began to touch me beyond what they were telling me and I could sense Him telling me enough was enough. I had repented to HIM and I felt God was showing me that when you repent and you are cleansed you don't continue to try and cleanse yourself. I kept repenting to God for the same things because of the treatment of others. He said I was forgiven, they said keep digging. This was the first time in awhile that I realized what they were saying did not match what God was saying. I got to experience the same treatment I had taken part in toward others. The measure by which we judge others is measured back to us. It was one the best things that could have happened to me even though it didn't feel like it at the time! It was a big part of what God used to set me free. I have seen them almost destroy the faith of some. My hope now is for others to be set free. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.224 |
Wow, it’s overwhelming to read the purple quote and the things from graceisenough. It brings back so many unwanted memories. I have seen people told to leave for different reasons. But, it was very secretive and hush, hush. Like they were “trying” to protect the integrity of the person. But from my understanding of the scriptures, if it was bad enough to ask someone to leave, you told it to the WHOLE church. There REALLY weren’t specific identifiable sins when someone was told to leave. I have heard some people asked to leave because they had to “get their own oil”. I have heard people asked to leave because they weren’t “bearing any fruit”. I have heard people asked to leave because they hadn’t “given themselves to the group”. I have heard of people asked to leave because they didn’t swallow everything they were told. I have heard of people asked to leave because they “didn’t lead their family”. And then there were those that you just NEVER knew why they were asked to leave. Do you know what that does to the psyche? It was a master plan that kept you wondering what would it take for you to get asked to leave because you never knew. You continuously had this dark cloud hanging over your head. I would sometimes just stand at a doorway and watch as the ones trying to gain spiritual approval because “god” had given them revelation into the heart and mind of some deviate schlep would run about “seeking” equipping for the “infraction”. It was almost an adrenalin rush because, for ONE, it wasn’t YOU! And TWO, you got brownie points for investing in the lives of others. I watched as HOPE slowly began to fade into hopelessness as you wondered “what are these people guilty of? Is there no end to this? Is there NO victory over sin? | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.224 |
There are other examples of this master plan to gain victory over your being. We would get a computer generated call announcing where and when there would be a meeting. Well, Mike decided that if you were REALLY connected to the Head, you wouldn’t HAVE to be called, you would be in people’s lives in such a way that you would KNOW when there was going to be a meeting. WOW! Did that send panic through the camp! “What if they have a meeting and I’M NOT THERE? What would that say of my spiritual state? I wouldn’t be connected to the Head,” So then people frantically got on the phone and trying DESPERATELY to be kept in the loop would keep checking with the elite ones to see if there was a meeting. Can you see the psychic manipulation? Then, when you were at a meeting, there were all of these little hushed toned meetings of two or three where one person was “seeking” equipping for something they “heard” or “saw” in a brother or sister. You felt out of the loop if you weren’t in there “seeking” equipping. (Or wondering if it was about YOU) No longer would you act independently. You didn’t trust the “Jesus inside of you”. You couldn’t do ANYTHING without first “bouncing” it off from someone more spiritual. They had their own “spiritual jargon” in order to keep you in tow. It’s just so VERY, VERY, heart wrenching! Oh God! I ask you to PLEASE! By your grace and mercy make it possible for those sheep that are being held captive by this spiritual seducer in Indy, sheep that have been hindered from hearing Your voice, whose eyes have been blinded from the spiritual twisting and misapplication of YOUR precious word, to read the testimonies of those who have been released; and open their eyes and let TRUTH resonate within them. Make it possible for extended families hurting for and longing for their loved ones caught in this web of deception to come across this site and others that are attempting to expose the gross error and application of LIFE in YOU. And Father, I ask you to open Mike’s eyes, help these truths and facts to resonate within him. Allow him to see the sheep he has wounded, because if he doesn’t see it here, if he doesn’t see it now, one day, he will see it Father, and it won’t be a happy day. We know that with man that is IMPOSSIBLE, but with YOU ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Father for YOUR Glory! Through Jesus, WE ask! AMEN! | ||
| first_truth Junior Member Username: first_truth Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 67.15.217.21 |
I was a part of Indy for about 10yrs, everything that Baxter and "purple poster" via joythruchrist I also witnessed. There is this constant drama, it's like a real life soap opera of, "what do you think I should do about so and so, I walked into his apartment and saw him watching the Andy Griffith show, ALL BY HIMSELF! GASP!! It’s evil to do anything alone!" See Mr. Costello audio file, you'll be amazed: http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=337253#POST337253 In this environment people are always trying to climb the caste system ladder to avoid being on the bottom and getting picked on . So to do this you nit-pick someone at your level or under and call it "caring about one another". So the spotlight shifts off of you and on to the person that you are "caring for". So sick. Baxter, Can you email me at: then_freedom@yahoo.com Thanks, First_Truth | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.77 |
In regard to the hushed tones and people running around seeking “equipping”, I was also reminded that when you realized something was “going on” with someone and if you asked about it, the staple answer was “they’re not DOING very well”. You were generally in the dark as to what the mystery was in the “not DOING very well”. Nothing specific was ever mentioned, which of course kept you on your toes lest you find yourself in the place of “not DOING very well.” It was such mental manipulation for all involved: the clones as they seriously went about on their accumulation of spiritual brownie points and pleasing the MASTER MP, (“See, I’m spiritual! See what I noticed! Or See, I’m spiritual, too, I’m involved!) and for the one labeled “not DOING very well” like “purple post” as they desperately try and figure out for themselves what “not DOING very well” means so they can REPENT. And BTW this was DAILY “in public and from HOUSE to HOUSE life in Mike Peter’s kingdom. OH! People, can’t you SEE it? | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
I've always believed that leaven was more an attitude of the heart than an instance of sin itself. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul rebukes the Corinthians, not for having a brother who sinned, but for tolerating a gross instance of sin. It was an attitude of the heart that excused some terrible things. That's leaven, something that works it's way through people's lives. Jesus also described leaven in Matthew 16 as the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. The wise sounding words of men masquerading as God's truth. That's what's happened to the Church in Indianapolis. In Mike Peter's zeal to eradicate sin, he's propagated a teaching that has blinded people to God's grace. This insidious teaching has worked it's way through the batch, hardening people's hearts so that the sins of spiritual pride and extreme judgmentalism are now excused. Paul did say to put away the evil person. And he did mention some things so we would have a clue, things like sexual immorality, drunkeness, extortion. Honest questions, or disagreements, about the latest teachings to come down from Mike P. and others falls well short of evil, sinful acts. Spending time alone does not make you a reviler or extortioner. Where's the perspective! How ironic that in attempting to "purge out the old leaven" from the batch, Mike Peters has caused the very leavening he sought to avoid. Leaven = heart attitudes = mind control, and so many are totally unaware. Including, it seems, Mike Peters himself. nintai1@gmail.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
So true! I often wondered if they continued shunning everyone who sins that there would be no one left!!! I picture one person standing there wondering where everyone went. This won't happen though because there is a total double standard for the "higher ups". At the time the situation I shared above happened to me another person I was close to had confessed similar things that I had. Since she was "higher up" she wasn't put on "house arrest" like me. Double standards abound. Fear of "leaven" or "being leavened" is a control tactic. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 323 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I just happened to be looking into how the Amish shun and reject others with them whom they believe are sinning. It is used by them as well to keep their following away from others outside and it keeps them in check. And then of course we have the JW's and so many other cult groups who use this tactic for control as well. For those who want to consider more on the topic of Christmas for Christians, Theophilos --who comments here-- has made some comments on "Haven of Grace". I believe you will see the contrast between Mike Peters who enforces his own beliefs and then someone who expresses their convictions without legalism. Theophilos views are different from my own, and here is a way in which we can "receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God" as we reason together about "what is the meaning of this?"... http://haven-of-grace.blogspot.com/2006/12/varying-views-in-december-part-2.html denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
Here's a little insight as to the "spiritual insight" of Mike Peter's..."There are two aspects of what was/is happening in Indy that are extremely detrimental to a person’s life with Christ. First, almost everything is determined by exteriors--what do they do?, what do they say?, how do they view this?, etc., etc. Christ, on the other hand, always looked at the heart. “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God’s sight: (Luke 16:15). Mike focused on exteriors, because it always gave him ground for criticizing, and ultimately proving himself to be superior to, all other “movements,” teachers, denominations, etc. This is the nature of a personal crusade, but not the spiritual discernment of Christ." That's a quote from the letter I got from a person who had spent time with Mike and the group, but hadn't lived there. (the entire letter can be read at http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 7:39 pm: for those who missed it). Anyway, that about sums it up. I received a scathing rebuke from Mike. He told me to go figure out what was in my sick evil heart. And of course, HE didn't tell me what my sin was, just that there was something there. And one thing that he DID mention, hadn't even crossed my mind. I told another of his elite ones about the rebuke, the response was, "he must see something." Because it didn't make sense to this person either. So, I went to my sofa, looked out the window and thought, I could leave right now. But I was afraid, because I associated leaving Indy as leaving God. I couldn't hear God's voice, maybe he was the one who put it in my heart to want to leave and was telling me to run, run FAR AWAY. But, I looked up to the heavens and thought, "I don't want to leave you, Father." So still not having ANY clue as to why something I said resulted in such a harsh (and I mean HARSH) rebuke, I know I had no evil intentions, no evil thoughts, the only thing I could do was go "repent". I had no "revelation" as to even what I was repenting of. But I saw no other remedy for the situation. So I go to Mike and tell him I repented;no specifics were mentioned. I even thought, "what am I going to say if he asks me of what?" He said what a "difference" he saw in my spirit. One of those red flags became aparent and I realized how HE had NO CLUE and no spiritual discernment because I was no different on the inside, I still lacked peace, I possessed fear, and it was still a mystery to me as to what my "sin" was. I suppose at some point, you all will know who I am and Mike as he reads this I am sure is wondering, and if/when the day comes that Mike knows who I am, Mike will for sure (or at least a clone or two) will be here making sure anything that was confessed, public. I dug up sins from my past prior to becoming a Christian, that had already been forgiven. Sins that were confessed when I came to Jesus and were washed in HIS blood. But because there was this constant lack of peace, I was trying desperately to recover it...so, I thought, "Maybe..." | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.199.240.50 |
baxter, Thanks for sharing. What did you say exactly to get Mike heated up like that? BTW you letters are in PDF format for others: http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/warningletter1.pdf http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/warningletter2.pdf anotherdisciple@gmail.com (Message edited by danrepent on December 08, 2006) | ||
| im_forgiven New member Username: im_forgiven Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.41.62.17 |
First Truth, Denny, Jen and others, Thankyou for answering my questions about MP. Whoever posted the info about "reveal", that was helpful for my cousin. I don't know what to think about this cult. It is worse than the one I was in. There are some things I want to say to Mike, but I don't know how to say it right now. I will later. Do you think he still reads this? Do his leaders or followers read it? Baxter and others who were in this group, Do you think Mike has the potential of Jim Jones? If this has gotten progressively worse over the years, how much worse can it get? My prayers are still with you all. Galations 5:1 | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
Im__forgiven, I am sure he still reads the posts, he is the kind of guy who has to know what's going on, that's why he has so many people that do his spying and report back to him. There COULD be some VERY trusted elite ones out there that he would let read this site, but most are probably in the dark about it. As we have said many times, he can't allow anyone to think for themselves. He knows what kind of thinking this site and others would ignite in his followers, he can't risk it. He's a man that has worked very hard rejecting everyone, so if he doesn't have his followers, he has NO ONE. About Jim Jones...hmmm...I've wondered that same question. I'd like to think that the people there have enough sense to know that that is carrying things too far. And that's one of the things that makes THIS group SO dangerous. There WAS a LOT of truth in his teachings, it isn't some way out in outer space kind of cult that would be obvious to just about any on looker (all though it IS becoming MORE obvious), this one is subtle, VERY subtle, and the mind control is subtle (at least it WAS). It's a VERY powerful tool of a very crafty snake. He was at work in the garden and he's at work there. So I don't think it would be as in Waco. But, hey, you never know. Someone just pointed out to me that Jim Jones and some of the others didn't begin being so wacky. If Indy had started out at the point that they have now progressed to, people would have said, "NO way! You guys are off your rockers!" And as it says in Heb 2:1 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away {from it.} Drifting is a very gradual process. It doesn't seem much at first, you can still see the shore, but then one day you are in the middle of the ocean with no land in sight. You have no direction and haven't a clue where you are or where you came from or how you got there. I hope not, but who knows? Other's thoughts... | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 107 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Yes, I believe they are capable of that, because Mike Peters has ultimate and unchallenged authority. If he says move to South America people will do it. That is how the whole thing started with Johnstown. Like I posted before, Jim Jones also started his group in Indianapolis. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.226 |
You are probably right, Danrepent. As I was considering things further, this post came to my mind...From: mike [mailto:mike@Hisfeet.org] Sent: Friday, January 15, 2003 4:13 PM To: '<husband> & <wife> <lastname>' >> they probably think I'm terrible for not going to church every Sonday with my husband what kind of unBiblical vocabulary ("go to church") is THAT??! Yucko! As for <friend> and the rest - don't get into a discusion trying to justify yourself. NOWHERE does the Bible command you to hold hands and give away affection to a hypocrite. Jesus SURELY didn't! (Mat.23!) Try to be kind as much as possible, don't argue, but DON'T YOKE WITH HYPOCRISY." That is such a gross twisting of the word of God. The scripture says...1 Pet 3:1 "In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any {of them} are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives," Titus 2:4 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, Titus 2:5 {to be} sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. 1 Pet 3:5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must {see to it} that she respects her husband Eph 5:24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives {ought to be} to their husbands in everything. Eph 5:22 ¶ Wives, {be subject} to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 1 Cor 7:3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 1 Cor 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband {does;} and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife {does.} 1 Cor 7:10 ¶ But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 1 Cor 7:11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 1 Cor 7:13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 1 Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Mike has twisted the word of God and says, "Woman you must first seek God and His Kingdom" (meaning Indy and the people in it) And if your husband has a problem with you not fulfilling your "marital obligations" to him then he is asking you to obey man rather than God. Mike has usurped the throne of God and his followers buy into it regardless of what the written word of God says. So already we have people believing Mike and his twist on things over the scriptures. So, yeah, there's potential there. | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
Just another thought. When Paul says "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers," (2Cor 6:14), he's not talking about a husband married to an unbelieving wife or a wife married to an unbelieving husband. They are already yoked. And the verses Baxter mentioned above and a host of others apply to the marriage relationship, whether both are believers or not. God hates divorce, and it's even possible to divorce your spouse in your heart, though you live with them all of your days. The yoking of husband to wife is real and not optional. It's a very serious matter to come between husbands and wives. A husband's affection is first for God and then his wife. A wife's affection is first for God and then her husband. Anything that usurps that affection, even in the guise of religion, is an evil, adulterous thing. The marriage convenant is sacred, and second in my mind only to the convenant of Jesus' blood that saves us. So, to answer Mike's use of withholding affection as a tool, I will say this. They will know us by our love for one another and God loved us when we were still sinners. When we were still sinners! How can we withhold what God himself has not withheld from us? Mike says that you don't want to make someone feel comfortable in their sin by giving them affection. And I say that nothing makes a sinner more uncomfortable than affectionately loving them unconditionally (Indianapolis husbands and wives, are you listening?).  | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
Baxter said, "Mike says that you don't want to make someone feel comfortable in their sin by giving them affection. And I say that nothing makes a sinner more uncomfortable than affectionately loving them unconditionally" AMEN! This is what God finally taught me in regards to my spouse while we were separated. During our involvement I shunned and rejected my husband continually. It is the love of God and His kindness when we don't deserve it that leads us to repentance. As God was restoring my marriage I got to encourage my spouse that God's grace was sufficient. I really couldn't offer him that while I was under Mike's teachings. Jesus had to show me a revelation of His Grace, then He used that to heal our marriage. Jesus' has never withheld affection from me! It's not part of His character. He is love! Can MP (or anyone else) show me where God witholds affection? This is a way to punish and munipulate. I don't mean that we act like everything is okay if someone is in sin. Yet, unconditioal love reaches out and points to the cross and says there is a way out. It is all about the grace by which we all stand. If we don't minister God's love to our spouses how are we at all like Christ and the church? And yes when you are married you are yoked. Mike is practically telling someone to divorce their spouse in their heart by saying not to be yoked. He has no reservations about dividing marriages, after all MP says things like, "we won't be given to marriage forever". So why not divide yourself now? that way you can be more devoted to the Mike Peters movement. They call it putting "the kingdom" first. Or "seeking first the kingdom". Isn't loving your husband or wife part of God's kingdom? They make their exclusive group "God's kingdom". Thus making it a here or there kingdom. And, anyone that doesn't fall in line is rejected and shunned. BTW, I haven't said who I am. I really have no reason not to, there is nothing they can do to me. My name is Elizabeth Nelson, I used to live in Columbus, Ohio. I put myself under Mike Peter's teachings for about four years. God brought us out and healed our marriage. There is hope for those we know who are in bondage to these false graceless teachings. There is hope for those we know who have divided marriages and homes due to this group. I believe God is stirring things and speaking out will help. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
VERY well said, Nintai! We love because HE FIRST LOVED US! It’s His kindness that leads us to repentance. His willingness to touch us though we are leprous, his willingness to wash our dirty feet. The fact that HE didn’t come into the world to condemn us, but that he would save us from our sins. That's the love that softens our hearts and turns us from those sins. BTW, graceisenough, that was Nintai you quoted. I didn’t experience that kind of love while in Indy. You KNOW when you are being loved. Before I became a Christian, during the time the Lord was drawing me to Himself, while I was yet a SINNER, I was involved in an affair. I had a consciousness of God, but He wasn’t my life. I believed in Him, but I hadn’t made a decision to lay down my life and follow Him. I really didn’t even know about that way of life. I would still talk to Him, I would pray to Him and He did answer my prayers. Anyway, I thought in my heart to God that I would like to have $20.00, that’s all, just $20.00. I wondered how it could happen, no one owed me any money as in the case of someone I had just spoken to over lunch had said God provided for them. I wasn’t expecting any income tax, I just didn’t “see” how He was going to do it. I was then walking with this friend back to work when he slipped his hand in my pocket. I didn’t think anything of it, but when I got back to work, there in my pocket was $20.00. I knew then that God had used my friend, who knew NOTHING of my prayer, to answer my request. It was still a matter of years before I gave my life to Jesus, but he was loving and kind toward me while I was living a life of sin. He was very patient with me and he didn’t give up on me. I had never known THAT kind of love and patience and kindness while living in Indy. Any "friends" you knew if you weren't one of the elite ones, couldn't give their heart to you, nor you to them, that would be "friendship" idolatry. You knew that they were weighing every word so that if ANYTHING could be made out to be SOMETHING, then they ran to the nearest "elite" one for equipping. Nothing was really REAL actually. It was just events of chastisment waiting to happen. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
oops, I must have been tired. Sorry Nintai. | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
Blind obedience is the enemy of faith. God invites us into relationship. He invites us to know his heart. Obedience springs from knowing the character of God, from knowing his faithfulness and love for us. I remember being told that sin blinds, and that the blind person must be led by the hand by those “approved” brothers and sisters who can see. The Church in Indianapolis requires blind obedience. An unquestioning submission to what someone else sees, someone more “mature” than you. How can you question it? You’re blind, remember. I’ll be the first to admit that there are many areas in my life that do not reflect the character of God, areas that I’m not aware of. I welcome (usually ) the input of others in those areas. But a dangerous line is crossed when the “blind” routinely submit to the those who “see.” This causes people to doubt the validity of any thought or action in their lives. It breeds an unhealthy fear of being out of God’s will, an unhealthy fear of sinning. And it fosters an unhealthy dependence on other so-called more mature brothers and sisters. But, in such a confrontational atmosphere as Indy, how could it be otherwise. The Indianapolis paradigm is broken. I only hope that some of you reading this who are in that pressure-cooker environment will realize that God wants you to know Him, independently of others. Our faith must be our own. We do need each other. But ultimately, if we cannot hear His voice for ourselves, then we are building on sand. Get alone with God (yes alone), away from the seeing eye watchdogs who monitor your every minute, and ask God to reveal His heart to YOU. Ask Him to open YOUR eyes. God wants us, from the least to the greatest, to see for ourselves. nintai1@gmail.com | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
I REALLY appreciate your comments, Nintai, they are SO accurate. Thank you! I was listening to Renewal Radio today. It was very encouraging. I saw transparancy, love, and God at work in his people's hearts IN A HEALTHY WAY! I am placing the link here, I think it'll work. Anyway, today's is the continuation of yesterday's. It's about 15 minutes. Just take a moment and see the contrast of how this brother was loved into obedience to Christ, as opposed to the "shunning" approach and the "withholding affection" approach practiced in Indy. You will see the patience and kindness of God. I'd like to hear your comments if you listen to it... http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Renewal_Radio/archives.asp?bcd=2006-12-12 | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Baxter, Thank you for posting that information. I listened to the mp3 and it was very gracious of those brothers to help this man. I have to confess that Graceisenough and my family had some rough spots like this. There was a time when you could say we didn’t act like brothers and sisters in Christ, bearing each others burden, while we were in this cult together. This group teaches people to be very critical and unloving to those in the lower “caste”. Graceisenough got promoted up over us and had her chance lord it over. Some time later, by the power of God, she repented and was excommunicated shortly following for some ambiguous “sin” (go figure). Then I had my chance to be like Saul and hold the coats of the men stoning Steven. I took advantage of her excommunication/demotion to promote myself. I didn’t realize it at the time it was all a sub-conscience thing, but this Mike Peters’ system (MPS) encourages biting and devouring of each other. Galatians 5:15 “If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.” Obviously, I came to my senses and repented. Then made it right with my sister graceisenough. And we lived happily ever after, seriously... Love yah graceisenough!! | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
I love you guys too, danrepent!!! One good thing that came out of this is the restored relationship that we have with this precious family. God Is Good! | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.77 |
Another thought in regard to what Nintai said about “welcoming the input of others”…That CAN be a very difficult thing. However, in Indy it was a DAILY diet. That can be overwhelming. Prior to Indy, when I could and DID hear God, there was a series of things the Holy Spirit had been “high-lighting” in my life. It was apart from someone “pointing” things out in every instance. My experience was: The Holy Spirit would bring something in my character or heart that wasn’t in line with His character to my attention (and it would be something SPECIFIC, usually an attitude in my heart). So together we began to work on it. When the Spirit was satisfied with the outcome, He would then show me something else. (Again, it wasn’t someone judging my every move or thought, it was the HOLY SPIRIT’S work in my heart. We began working on that together. It was really a blessed time! When the Holy Spirit was PLEASED with the progress, He would highlight something else and the growth would continue. As I was witnessing this process, I remember this one very specific day when in my heart I turned toward God and worshipped saying…”You are SO wonderful, you don’t overwhelm me by working your life out in mine. You just show me one thing at a time! I love and praise you! Thank you!” That was a VERY real time in my life, and that was the last time I had a REAL experience like that, because then I moved to Indy where they usurped the HOLY SPIRIT’S role and began burdening me with their idea of the Holy Spirit’s work. One other thing I noticed, God could and would be PLEASED, there is NO PLEASING THE god OF INDY! | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
You are so right, Baxter. I am sorry that so many people experienced this same thing with them. What you and Nintai have been describing are the same things that went on in Columbus, Ohio. It takes time for God to regain ground in our mind. Things that are pure in the Lord, like God convicting our hearts, become tainted or confusing from all the time we allowed people to lord over and condemn. It is also taking time for me to see the difference between man made laws vs. true convictions from God. I was wondering if you could share with us how long you have been out of "indy". Only share if you can and want to. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 109 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
I can't post it all, you'll have to click on the link to read the rest. TRUELY AMAZING STORY: http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/DangerousGroup.aspx Excerpts copied from the website. "The purpose of my letter is to confirm with you so much of what I have read on factnet and the other sites. I have truly wrestled with putting this in writing and have come to the conclusion that it is necessary because CII is definitely moving in a dangerous direction. There will be several things that happen over the next several weeks and months that will bring an uncomfortable amount of “light” on CII and if anyone there is still reading this site then please open your eyes and hearts and please stop burying those things deep inside you that you know are truly wrong. The things I speak of here about Mike Peters I say with clear conscience because to my knowledge, Mike has never admitted any wrong doing nor asked for forgiveness for what I am about to speak of. For that reason, I do feel compelled to speak of it in detail. Unlike what Mike and CII do where they bring up all of your past sins that you have repented of and already dealt with in a Godly manner, I think that is the tactic of Satan himself..." "Don’t get me wrong though, because Mike did do a lot of good for a lot of people including myself. Much of his teaching was sound and he himself is fairly intelligent. I spent a lot of time with him and saw first hand and up close many things that others would not have had the chance to see. Much of what I have read on factnet is accurate. What is most striking to me is the similarities of what so many people there have said. There is NO question that CII is now a very dangerous group, and YES it very easily could become a “Jim Jones” type situation." | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 190 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Tim, The only reason the vile, perverted person who wrote all those twisted half-truths on Mike needs to remain "anonymous" is because he or she is lying through their teeth and they KNOW it. I've never in all my life seen as much cowardice and people who stoop into hell as you all do to come up with the things you write about. How DARE any of you even INSINUTATE that you are followers of Jesus or in any way righteous at ALL (you all have no comprehension of that word) when you have no backbone or spine to state your testimony out front, in the open, and with NAMES, as **GOD DEMANDS**???!!! It's because you all are lying through your teeth and I might add that you don't have to go far for your sick, twisted "material" and perspectives. You all are entirely guilty of actual perversions and gross sin and have no purity in your hearts at all that you would be able to see situations you've described in ANY way as they actually were and are. This is false testimony through and through (as has been going on for months here and on your other demonic sites.) "To the pure all things are PURE," but to the satanically perverted and enraged and angry... You become what every person who has ever denied Jesus WITH THEIR LIVES has become (regardless of what you all "claim" -- which is just as erroneous as the lies you fabircate about others.) I know fully well what "situation" your anonymous, evil "friend" has written about, and I can say beyond a doubt there was never ever even a HINT of anything like what he/she so cowardedly describes in that man's life. Again, "to the pure, all things are pure," but to the defiled all things are defiled -- you can't imagine that others actually could wash, cleanse and purify themselves to a point that is utterly beyond reproach, and it ANGERS you all that your lives were shown for what they were in some of the most gross and indescribable sin then AND NOW (and a lot if not most of it sexual in nature, which again, as I said, you don't have to go far for your "material.") Just like Jesus and the "myths" perpetrated (and STILL perpetrated to this DAY) concerning Mary Mag, as well as the insinuations of "incest," "sleeping around" and other so-called "sins" of the disciples of the early church (who were also vehemently called a "cult" in their day with twists and insinuations and half-truths brought against them to discredit them), SO WITH YOU ALL HERE. This is always satan's "trump card" is to try and discredit, lie about, defame, malian and otherwise "discredit" True Believers, and always with "insinuations" usually of male/female doings. This is classic, historic, 2000-year satanic "reaction" is to lie, slander, insinuate and to publicly discredit as a last resort, as was done with all the prophets, Jesus, Paul, every apostle, and all the early Christians. All were "made to look" like they were "vagabonds," "incestuous," "cultic," haters of civic good, and the like. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 191 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Meanwhile, the rap sheet on your lives of fornication, sensual and sexual perversions, child-endangerment, wife abuse, wife stealing, dealings with lesbians, perverted and sensual movie watching and reality game playing is WELL DOCUMENTED throughout the internet EVEN NOW, much less the countless witnesses to your perversions and sins, including some in your number with actual police records in several cities (public record!). So, yeah... There's a need for your "friend" with all this so-called "insight" and accusation to "stay anonymous" INDEED, as with the rest of you. And just like satan, your leader, he's a coward and always has been from the beginning. This is the way he ALWAYS operates. In the dark, behind the scenes, "anonymously," spewing lies and accusations, with no accountability and no love for the Light at all. This testimony is DIGUSTING, not so much from the wild and wicked lies and insinuations, but more so from the WAY it is done -- as is ALWAYS done by you all. ChrisO PS. And don't go blowing all the rest of your satanic "smoke" about "death threats" and how your "lives are endanger." They are endangered alright. VERY endangered. But not the way you all "play" it to be, again, with your "twists" on truth. More than a third of you all have been clinically declared MENTALLY ILL, so I guess none of this "my life's been threatened" dellusional stuff is any surprise ANYWAY, much less the rest of it all. God help you all... | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Wow, Tim. That's quite a testimony from anonymous. Please let them know that we appreciate their courage and that many are praying for them. We all need to remain seriously and continually in prayer over this entire situation. God is in control! joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 324 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Please excuse me for placing 2 posts in a row. I'm doing the best I can as I believe I am convicted to speak here... (By the way, except for this sentence, this was completed before Wickedmor (Mt 23:15) came on) It is quite possible that many who have spoken-out here against the darkness dwelling in Mike Peters, Indy, and it’s affiliates may soon have their names reviled more severely than what has been already. Those who’s names are not yet known may become known from the wolves of Mike Peters. They are out to kill, steal, and destroy the testimonies and names of those who have boldly proclaimed “FOUL!” in Indy. They have chosen to offer limits only to the extent that they believe the law will permit their reviling. And obviously part of their confidence in this matter is that those whom they believe as truly wanting to follow the Scriptures --including regarding Christians not suing Christians-- will be reviled more severely, especially if they have spoken out bold and strong against their darkness and deception as I have and will as long as the abuse of Indy and its affiliates remain. Some of us know, and others may learn soon enough, that the individuals practicing this reviling are making disgraceful names for themselves for the rest of their lives if they don’t repent. And I must say, with all the seriously bad fruit coming from some of Mike’s disciples, I honestly can’t believe these men have ever been truly born of God. To me, I see them as worse than those reviling as stated unbelievers. For Mike and his adherents claim our Holy Savior's precious name on their lives, yet they are more sinful than most of those in the world by their fruit of ongoing lies and deceptions. This is the worst form of “taking His name in vain” and they are not believers in the Truth. This is what my faith from God’s Word is saying. Tim Dennis has a web site calling Mike Peters to repent, but this certainly applies to any and all who are participating in the same practices as MP. For they too are responsible for this as they are fully aware of wrong doing or at least they were before they let their consciences get seared though their idolatry of seeing MP as inerrant and taking up his lying ways for themselves. You speak all sorts of misplaced judgment of idolatry such as family, friendship, baby and so on. Yet in the Scriptures, all of these relationships God has ordained a godly and good place for in His own children. But you won’t see the real idolatry which Mike has caused you to believe in as he distracted you with illusions of idolatry. For in seeing MP and his words as greater than God‘s Words and the Holy Spirit you have sinful hearts of unbelief before God. We who are being maligned by your carnal imaginations of our sins, are very clear in our consciences that you are lying about us and perverting this truth and the other Truth. And you know this as well if you have much of a conscience left. All of what you are saying can be proven to work against you in a court of law if you don‘t find repentance in your soul for what you are choosing to practice. The Judgment Seat of Christ or the Great White Throne of Judgment are in waiting for all humans including me, you, and all. For every knee will bow there. And God only knows if others would take you to human court before that time for your public offensive lies on people's names and characters. Don’t forget, God is infallible yet He says “do not put the Lord to a test”, but if you keep trusting that all these people wouldn’t take you to human court, your tempting others who are fallible and God would use this for His good anyway. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 325 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
To those who are being reviled or may yet be, don’t worry! Some went on thinking bad about Jesus,Paul, or other followers of Christ because of the lies of those exposed for trying to have others follow into a controlling legalism or perversion. Only the people who are foolish or naïve without examining matters will believe such things as are put out by Mike Peter‘s adherents. Only those who would willingly swallow poison if their leader ask them to. For MP can do no serious wrong in their eyes. For if they accept things without examining as the Bereans, or without having common love and respect for these people accused by Mike’s adherents of all sorts of evil, they will fall for anything the leader says. And this is a dreadful place to be in their hearts and minds as history has proven over and over again. Let us pray that it doesn’t come to anything like this. But let us also get our heads out of the sand and realize that Mike Peters has complete sway over the minds of those in his following who swallow and believe every word he says. This has been testified to over and over again by many, and more keep showing up here and there. Even as some of his followers witness before their very eyes lies and deception coming through MP, they will not believe he has done severe wrong. And as for those not in leadership roles, MP will let them see only what he wants them to see. This is to remind us all to keep watching and praying. I believe that the more clear we make it through speaking out to the public about the inners of Indy, the more Mike’s mindset will set themselves up to self destruct. Our revealing testimonies work as a catalyst in the Hands of God. For the same sun that melts the wax will harden the clay. Truth is Truth and nothing should be hidden here. MP has made the practice of reviling using partial truths to produce monstrous lies and attempt to detract those exposing his ways. As the catalyst works, the more we reveal of him the more violent he may become in this practice through his adherents. This same catalyst is used of God to reveal the true nature of Mike to his followers so they may --by God’s mercy and grace-- come to their senses in Christ and be set free through seeing the Truth. We will continue to pray to this end even keeping the hope that Mike himself may repent. If anyone does not test all things coming from the camp of Mike and his other adherents, they have proven themselves deserving of this which Mike is feeding them. For they choose a mere man over God’s Word and Spirit for guidance. If they do not repent of this idolatry, they will continue to believe scripture lies and twists, and the consequences that that follow will not be good for their souls. It will add up and will hit them as one who places bricks --one at a time-- on a floor over their head which has little support until the weight is too much to handle it. Their consciences about these matters are developing calluses as they see Mike do one thing after another, which at the beginning had produced a red flag but now --as the proverbial frog in heated water-- they don’t even see how far he has gone in his offenses and therefore how far he can take them. Mike can boast of books, CDs, and websites all he wants but he is hiding the real inside definition of their beliefs from those outside until they come in. In this he has one of the most dangerous yet most effective forms of deceptions set up as a trap for innocent or naïve souls. He attracts them in with the bait which “appears” to be good, and then at the right time --when they are already entangled in his bondage of legalism-- he springs on them the hidden and secret meaning which works to enslave them more after they are in his grip. I have a message for any like Mike Peters: http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/12/nothing-in-secret.html (Message edited by speakingtruth on December 14, 2006) | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.224 |
The people of Indy cannot function independently of Mike P. (their head). They are also used to having people cower if fear and intimidation when approached by Mike or his clones. They won’t know how to handle it if someone doesn’t back down. And if they DO handle it, it’ll be like wirchlickmir or whatever his post name is. Has anyone ever seen the “Little House on the Prairie” episode where Mary gets a job as a teacher and there is this fearsome woman with whom the whole town is intimidated by because they believe her to be a spokes person for God? She has made the people of the town afraid of God. She speaks the tone of condemnation and cannot speak the truth in gentleness and love. She holds the bible over people’s heads and beats them with it. The anger of MAN does NOT produce the righteousness of GOD. Anyway, I’m sure you get the similarities… Luke 18:9 ¶ And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: Luke 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. Luke 18:11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. Luke 18:12 'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' Luke 18:13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' Luke 18:14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 192 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Well, not that it's going to matter my sticking my head back in this cesspool again, defending this church, but since I was there at the time of all this (eg. praying for "Bob and Tom," and the woman in question here, and Mike's so-called "anger," etc.) and since I personally know "who" and "what" this not-so-anonymous person (MR -- whom I also know) is talking about on Tim Dennis' slander site, let me point out a few things for those reading at home again, since for the demonics running this thread with their own following of a handful of dissidents, it's not going to matter anyway. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
The "Bob and Tom" Thing The "Bob and Tom" thing was not Mike's idea, thought, or so-called "prophecy" in any way shape or form. I was IN the gathering where that was first bought up, and it was never Mike's idea in the least. It was BC's idea -- another brother and not even a leader; the whole church joined with this brother in something he thought was important at the time. (So, right there... So much for "Mike controlling every little anything" or "only if you are a [so-called] 'top-tier' believer, can you do or say or suggest anything" since this was just a brother and not a leader that the ENTIRE CHURCH valued and took seriously.) And this brother at the time had the idea after seeing multiple filthy, perverted billboards in the city advertising these dirty birds. (The brother who asked the church to pray about this evil talk show, where they openly MOCKED God, spent a good amount of time driving in the city for his work and was sick of seeing this perversion and mocking of his God.) They (we, then) put a lot of passion into praying and asking others to pray about removing that stuff, and actually there has never been that sort of pornography on those billboards since that time. To repeat the point, this not-so-anonymous person on Tim Dennis' sickening slander site, disfellowshipped a decade ago, and a known wife-abuser and incarcerated drunk, claiming to be a spiritual expert of course, has no idea what he's talking about on any of the matters he's addressed, starting with the "Bob and Tom" accusation. Mike had nothing to do with conceiving the idea to pray for those billboards to be removed and "Bob and Tom" to be converted. Totally another brother's idea. Mike did give "Bob" a tract (written by a Baptist) at a restaurant once, but had nothing to do with starting others to pray for the pornographic billboards to come down. And, while "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" had no real conscience about the billboards, even the newspapers in Indianapolis revolted against the billboards. To check the "credibility" of "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" and his real love for Truth, Purity and spreading Righteousness, you should know of his present constant all-night escapades, refusing to tell his wife who he's with, but coming home with alcohol on his breath and clothing. Sometimes he claims he's out of town, and doesn't come home at all. He's been incarcerated for his alcohol and driving, broken probation innumerable times. He has, ever since disfellowshipped a decade ago, refused to tell his wife where he's at and who he's with, coming home drunk at all hours of the night. His wife and children are amongst the most abused anyone there has ever heard of. Even most pagans hold a higher standard and would never dream of being as "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" is, with females at bars three to four nights a week. Ask his teenage children. Ask his wife. He may try to lie and cover up his identity by claiming this isn't true, and even try to fabricate a coverup, but the police reports he can't remove from the public record, can he? | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 194 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Mike's So-Called "Anger" and "Temper" As for "blowing up and losing his temper," there are hundreds of people who have known Mike Peters much longer and more closely than the accusing slanderer above, and have lived in his house even, some for many months, neighbors for decades (I myself being one for years), who would absolutely refute that as utter lies. Mike's kindness and poise under stress, his patience and love and generosity are well-known. Hundreds would swear under oath, and on a lie-detector test, that Mike does not have the "temper" as this liar has claimed, and in fact the exact opposite is true. (Funny how, now that I think about it, "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" actually has temper, anger and interpersonal relationships problems presently...!) Mike is a fairly focused and straight-forward person at times, and can be certainly intense as most can be at times, and readily asks for forgiveness when he sins, as we all do. However, to claim Mike has a "temper" and "blows up" at people is an absolute lie, as many who have known him in every imaginable circumstance, from having his car blown up in the Middle East, to dealing with liars such as "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" -- he does not "blow up" or exhibit "temper." Nor does he ever exhibit prideful or "oracle" behavior (as some of the ringleaders here have been known to do with many witnesses and even their writings now on their multiple personal blogs, drawing attention to their "wisdom" and "convictions" and so-called "scripture knowledge.") I've been in countless high-intensity situations with Mike, on the road, in all-out sporting events (seriously intense basketball and football with bodies flying and injuries and poked eyes, blown out knees, etc.) in four different states with different spates of people each time, and he's nothing like presently drunken, lying, wife-and-child abusing "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" reports here. (I've also, by the way, lived with "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" in two different states as well.) | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
In fact, (something that does often drive people crazy is) Mike virtually never even "gives advice" to anyone anywhere who asks him "what should I do" about this or that. He makes no claims for himself, controls no money nor makes any one-man decisions for the church (unlike every "pastor" in the world who does both things), and asks for nothing. He is absolutely well-known to be generous and sacrificial (actually to a fault, as I reported very early in this monstrosity called a "thread".) While "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" begged Mike personally to be "salaried" by the church (that person's wife and many others are aware of this), Mike has never received a nickel of salary from the church in over 20 years. He has undergrad degrees and advanced degrees and is an Engineer, has multiple patents for two major companies, and will never have any difficulty "making a living." And I know for a fact on several occasions he took on very demanding freelance Engineering jobs, working until all hours of the night going on 2-3 hours of sleep for weeks to make ends meet for his family and other families while still being attentive and dedicated to the people around him. And this doesn't even count the times and hours he's spent providing free "consulting" to brothers (that in the real world would have cost tens of thousands of dollars in outside consulting fees) to help them start and run their own businesses so that they could feed their families. Men who had no degrees or whose degrees were practically useless in the real world. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Golfing Many other men in the church were golfers -- a few were/are practically "scratch golfers"!! -- for twenty years before Mike ever touched a golf club, at age 36 when a knee surgeon suggested that he take up golf as therapy for his knee (which he blew out playing basketball, hence the therapy). Just another example of "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous'" lies, false testimony, and innuendo. Mike's golf since that time has never been "every day" ever (I've checked with his wife). And, even though it's none of "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous'" business (not to mention "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" hasn't lived anywhere near Mike in a decade or more), Mike will sometimes play twice in a week, and then go for three or four weeks or longer and never touch a golf club. As recently as a month ago (so I was told by a brother sickened and outraged in reading this), 47 brothers were on a golf trip, and Mike chose not to go, as has been the case several times. "New golf sets" and all this ridiculous baloney is utter garbage. Some there do have the means for upgrading their equipment, others do not. Mike hasn't always bought all of his own golfing equipment, if it's anyone's business anyway. There is so much sharing and swapping and loving and thinking of others and borrowing of equipment by the brothers in that city, it's not even funny. I happen to have a pair of practically brand new golf shoes one of the brothers there provided me with because the fit wasn't right for him and we wear the same size. Just because someone shows up with a new club or even a whole new set of clubs in Indianapolis means nothing. It's actually far more likely that someone bought it for them or gave it to them and handed it across than that they or Mike bought it themselves. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
This Single Sister and "Her Apartment" Innuendos Again, as I stated, I know exactly what situation this evil liar and insinuator is talking about, and just like so many other things twisted, slighted and concocted out of half-truths, necessary information is always left out to make it seem like people here WANT it to seem. I was THERE the first night this single, unwed, "druggie" (at the time) mother was introduced to others in the church there. She needed a LOT of help, and has since, by the witness of many and myself included, become one of the most upstanding, kind, giving, behind-the-scenes, unselfish Christian women that I know. I too have "been in her apartment" as has Mike and any number of other Christian brothers and their wives. See, no one here is going to add the information that Mr. Not-So-Anonymous liar purposefully leaves out that this single sister (with no job, pregnant and then later having just given birth then, and her own apartment) was living in an apartment in a closed breezeway in which 6 or 7 of the 8 apartments in that breezeway were occupied by members -- full entire families -- of the church there. And how on any given night -- actually practically any hour of the day -- the doors to all those apartments were standing practically wide-open with upwards of 25 to 75 people in and out of those apartments -- including hers -- living and loving and caring for one another. One of the apartments in that breezeway was occupied by one of the leaders in the church, and his wife maybe more than anyone at the time, had more hands-on with this single, unwed mother than anyone else, and there is not a single time anyone, including Mike, ever went into that apartment (to help or walk her dog for her or fix her plumbing or whatever else) that at least someone didn't know about it, and usually 8-10 or even 75 people would witness this. It's not ANYTHING AT ALL like "Mr. I'm-out-for-revenge-behind-a-KKK-white-mask" wants it to "sound" like since there was more visiability into that situation and her apartment than the closed-circuit security television at Ft. Knox with dozens and dozens of people constantly around. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
So... So much for the lying and fabrication and innuendos. I was THERE. I lived ACROSS THE STREET and I myself was in that apartment complex practically every night and have been inside this person's apartment as well. WITH all the dozens and dozens of witnesses around. As I already posted previously, this is nothing but the same kind of innuendo and gross allegations that the early church were put under, either due to complete misunderstanding and utter incapacity to comprehend a life that is Given and Lived sacrificially to Others, or... as in the case of Mr. Not-So-Anonymous... is used to slander and hurt and defame people because he's out for revenge. And the KICKER to all this is this...??!!!!??? IF Mike and others had "stayed out of her apartment" THEN they would be ABSOLSUTELY VILLIFIED for doing THAT and called "Legalists!! Unloving!!! Uncaring!!!" and "mocked" for their "inability to trust the Holy Spirit and that he would keep them from sin." See? This kangaroo court, lynch-mob forum doesn't have ONE SINGLE THING TO DO WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS but is an angry lynch mob, as I've already pointed out millions of times here. Jen Elslager in particular is infamous for this kind of polarizing duplicity. If they do one thing... They're a cult. If they don't... they're a cult. Care for someone, an unwed mother, and it's "suspicious." Don't do it, and they are legalists, uncaring, unable to "trust the Holy Spirit" in themselves, can't look after a poor unwed mother... etc. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 199 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
The Bottom Line The bottom line, as I already stated (but went and checked anyway, even though I've personally witnessed all these things) is... Anonymous is a liar. Ironic that the drunk Anonymous who makes these accusations plays God in his very home, by bullying and controlling his wife, threatening her, refusing to tell her who he is with at the bars, or when he'll be home, year after year after year. He "claims" to go on Chicago business trips so he can disappear overnights, but will give her no details and mocks her and threatens her when she asks. He has driven her to tears, along with the children, hundreds of times in the last decade since he was disfellowshipped. He has broken the law and violated his probation multiple times. Talk about "playing god." And now has the nerve to take decade old and twisted information to try to sound like a marriage and christianity expert. Go figure. These folks with their "agenda" are only making their own lives more miserable, and violating God. Read Psalm 15 should make Tim Dennis, MikeR, TimS, AlanN, DaveT, MarkM, Elizabeth, Jenn, and their slander pals nervous. (But they are so drunken and arrogant and self-entitled, it likely won't make them shudder at all right now.) ChrisO PS. Oh by the way, Jen... Yeah, like a lot of "courage" it took for Mr. Not-So-Anonymous to "post" his lies and accusations. About as much courage as a person crossing the street with the WALK sign flashing. The guy is hiding behind a mask, lying through his teeth, no one knows who he is (well, we do), what he is, what his life's about, he leaves big-time important context and details out, and you call it "courage." Like 25 KKK clansman have "courage" when they are all holding loaded shotguns at the secret midnight lynching of a single black man, all of them hiding behind KKK white masks. "Woe to those who call 'good' evil and 'evil' good...", Jen... WOE to them, says God. :-( | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Did someone hear something? I thought maybe I heard a strange noise out there somewhere...  Anyone? Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I can't say I heard anything but I think there is a foul scent in here again after the series of eight posts. Be careful not to breath it too much because it may be toxic to your spirit and thoughts. This may be why it was released. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 200 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Mike's wife's response to the allegations made by this "Anonymous" person on Tim Dennis' sickening slander web site: Not so "anonymous," I'm sorry to hear you are now dragging me into the slander-site. I can't say I'm surprised, since once you hit that road of turning your back on Jesus you have never been remotely the man you were and could have become through Him. Instead, you have twisted words, broken hearts, and have used people for your own purposes. I'm sad to think of what it will be like when you face Jesus one day. You won't be able to blame your actions on anyone when it is just you and Him face to face and eye to eye. No twisted words and manipulating history will work when you face the Lord of Time and Eternity. If you honestly take a minute to consider facing Jesus (which will happen one day, not-so-anonymous. It WILL) you surely shudder at the thought. Just feeling like you had the right to announce up my female health problems to the world is appalling. Jesus protects; He doesn't announce other people's pain for His own benefit. Yes, 15 years ago was the most difficult time of my life hormonally. Yes, I was like the woman with the issue of blood who had been to many doctors. (Three in one year for me.) Over that four year period of time I bled pretty much non-stop, had frequent severe migraines (during the Hinds Feet play the left side of my lip and one eye was swollen because of a severe migraine related to that), and pretty much didn't sleep for a couple of those years. It was the most difficult time of my life by far. I dare say I likely felt quite sorry for myself many times during that season prompted by pure fatigue if not the other things going on hormonally. I do remember the ONE and only one conversation you and I had, during a play practice, when I was exhausted on many levels. And yes, I was feeling sorry for myself. But all that I can say to that is that for none of us will our whole lives be judged by words [during] a foolish time of feeling blue while ill. (Any woman reading this will testify to that and would be very thankful with me!!!) | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
That one conversation you have totally twisted to cover your tracks in order to bring more abuse and pain to my very close friend who happens to be your wife and whom I have known four years longer than you have! She does not deserve all you have done to her!!!! She herself is absolutely precious and had never deserved having a husband who defames Jesus' Name and His Family while he himself goes bar hopping each nite, hanging out with women with clothing, lives, and purposes that break the heart of Jesus. Jesus said we are known by our fruit of our lives. I did thankfully pass through that very difficult health season. And problems that seemed like mountains shrunk down to the molehills that they actually were. As for Mike and I... Our almost 30 year marriage is strong, solid, loving, and kind. I'll face Jesus one day as well... and with a heart of peace I can say I can't even remember the last time we had harsh words or even a difficult conversation (not even close to what would be called an argument). I'm sitting here pausing and thinking, and any "crisis" or hard conversation is so far back in time that I flat out can't remember one in literally years. The FRUIT of our marriage is strong, solid, peaceful, Peace-filled, God-loving children. More fruit of our marriage is a relationship that has had open doors for others to live with us as family non-stop since our third month into being married. Besides those who lived with us for a few weeks or months, there are those who lived with us for 4 years, 6 years, and 17 years. THOSE are the ones who can testify to the strength and solidarity in our lives. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
As for the sister who has lived with us for 17 years (who you refered to in the slander-site), she is one of the most sacrificial, kind, hard-working, SPECIAL people I know anywhere on earth. I have seen her pretty much every day for 17 years, and no one could ever see anyone so Changed -- from a total homeless drugged depressed disaster when the college professor brought her to Mike and I, to a solid Godfearing, God loving, obedient, radiant, stable follower of Jesus. I was with this Sister in the hospital with she had her baby (who is now a God-loving, incredibly sweet, bright, cheerful, delightful 16 year old Sister in Jesus. Who can say that of most 16 year olds in the world?). All of these adjectives are simply true -- and are a testimony to the truth of what we say. And not-so-anonymous, if this ever becomes public in a legal and lawful way, with respectible folks judging, our words will be proven true over and over and over again. -kp | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Addendums: Bob and Tom BTW, the "BC" I mentioned who was the one who originated the "pray for Bob and Tom" thought and not Mike as originally lied about... The "BC" is Brad C. The "other" Brad C. Golf All the "weeks and weeks of golf" complete out-and-out lies. Mike's maybe golfed back to back days a handful of times in 15 years, if ever. I'd have to ask him. "Weeks and weeks"??? I know that's garbage for a fact. And again, we see an interesting HYPOCRISY here... Not only does "Mr. Anonymous" lie using words on Tim Dennis' sickening slander site, he also lies by his OMISSION of words as well. It would seem that "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous'" not only drinks a blue streak spending much money nightly at pagan bars in a filthy environment, but he also golfs and TWO OF HIS CHILDREN golf regularly, enter tournaments, take lessons and the like. (The expense of his constant bars "cover charge" and constant alcohol consumption -- the expense and immorality of that exceeds the expense of his childrens' or Mike Peters' or anyone's golf expenses!!!) So, if "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" thinks golf is evil why did he fail to mention this little "fact?" Wow. Incredibly amazing and ironic, isn't it!!??!!! (Not to mention just all out evil.) | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
Finally I want to address two things that KP (Mike's wife) mentioned in her message since I know it will absolutely be POUNCED on and the church there will be ripped to shreds (like it hasn't been already). KP wrote: Just feeling like you had the right to announce up my female health problems to the world is appalling. Jesus protects; He doesn't announce other people's pain for His own benefit. The reaction to this is ENTIRELY predictable, esp. one the part of one Jen Elslager. And I want to bring to everyone's attention that: NO ONE IN INDY OR COLUMBUS STARTED THIS WHOLE MESS and yet all the accusers, slanderers and "cult experts" (early on) kept this going and ultimately lead to the newspaper article about Dennis as well as Dan's explanation being posted after this church was backed into a corner. Dan still, as KP mentions, had the decency to ask the moderator to take the post down, and Jen was congratulated countless times, including by myself for having a heart to want to defend her husband. (Which is a little ironic, isn't it? When Tim Dennis posts a slanderous message about Mike's wife.... NOTHING. No outrage. But when it's Dennis and it's TRUE, you'd think WW III was started. Really interesting...) But you know what... Jen doesn't really care about "all that" anyway. She's got the newspaper article and Dan's response which so (seemingly) infuriated her posted on her own personal blog. You see... Dennis and Jen wanted all that stuff posted so they would have an excuse for what they are doing (which is exactly why husbands, wives, children and dogs and cats can be slandered in Indy and.... NOT ONE WORD IS SAID, but if it's "Dennis", then literally, all the wrath of hell comes at this church!) (Message edited by wirklichmir on December 14, 2006) | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
It's CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR from Jen's own blog and recounting of "what happened" that they went LOOKING for this, and when they found it, they had the fire they wanted and needed to come unglued. Not to mention that they went looking for dirt on another situation, by their own admission, and even went and slandered someone ELSE here on FactNot, calling THAT person a "cult leader" -- see, anyone who stands in their way and who stands up to these mavens who DESPISE AUTHORITY -- gets "labeled" and slurred (not unlike that comedian from Steinfeld recently in the news who in anger and volcanic rage spewed his "n__gg_r" slur, that's how Jen and others here use the "cult" slur to anyone that upsets THEM and gets in their way -- whoever it is, and it wasn't just "Indy.") So enough already with your indignation about "protecting" people, because you all have records a mile long with some of your behind-the-scenes tactics and upfront efforts on web sites and blogs and "book review" sites and BB, slandering and accusing people. | ||
| wirklichmir Intermediate Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 206 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 |
KP wrote: ...if this ever becomes public in a legal and lawful way, with respectible folks judging, our words will be proven true over and over and over again. Again, as I've done and others as well, KP is simply stating that IF this were ever put in a court situation -- and the evil, vile, demonic people here KNOW that that isn't going to happen, so they know they can get away with slander and libel of the absolute worst kind!!! -- then she is simply saying... YOU ALL WOULD LOOSE. This stuff I've posted, Dan has posted (regarding Tim Dennis' lies and his supposed "involvement" with "Indy" which is as far from the Truth as Alpha Centuri is from Earth), and a few others (Sigh, etc.) would absolutely stand up in court. DOZENS and DOZENS of people know the facts and the details behind every single false accusation, lie, fabrication, twist, contortion and the Reality of the lives here, and if this hypothetically "went to court," you all woudl absolutely loose. And again, this IS going to go to Court One Day... And the Verdict, as I've stated, WILL be final. You may despise, hate, resent and fight back and "twist" your way out of Authority here, Dennis, Jen, Tim, Tim, Allen, Dave, Sandy, Lisa, Mike R., and others... BUT YOU WILL NOT ON THAT DAY. :-( Later, ChrisO | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Wow, Chris, your "Time Out" from your superiors must be over!! How DO you have such ready access to Mrs. Peters? Wow! By the way, I read the story by "Anonymous" on DanRepent's website and I saw NO attacks on Mrs. Peters. The only mention of her was that she was HURT by Mike's actions. Whether this is true or not, it said NOTHING bad about her. Chris, have you had a chance to tell your "pagan" friends that you called them "pagan, chain-smoking, multiply divorced, adultrating, porn-watching, sailor mouthed coworkers"? Have you mentioned to them that you said they'd like to "hunt you all down and take a 2x4 to most of you"? I'd seriously like to know how they'd appreciate your words and descriptions about your "friends". Chris, what is "Steinfeld"? (LOL) What did you mean by "YOU ALL WOULD LOOSE"? Loosen what? Our belts? Our shoes? Do you get a special joy out of telling people they're going to Hell? Do you still LOOK FORWARD to your opponents going to Hell? What keeps you from simply saying it, "Go to Hell!"? You're a funny guy, Chris. I enjoy you. | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Sounds like Mike Peters talking in this rather than Chris or Cathy. I don't know why I have the urge to say "Hi Mike!" after this. Also sounds like Mike is fearing the court seen as we clearly understand why. It is to be considered by the context of 1Cor 6 that if Mike isn't willing to go before the brethren here in an open clearing of the truths of this matter that God has given us the government of which He has also said: "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." (Rom 13) And considering the unrepentant lies and deceptions coming from Mike and his adherents, it seems they may not be considered true believers in this matter. We may need to be in prayer as to the proper way to apply God's Word when there is a situation of lives being controlled by Mike's mental and emotional manipulations and lies. I am considering this in prayer and study at this time. I will soon have a follow up on the post http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/12/nothing-in-secret.html . This will bring in consideration of those in other countries who suffer potential and violent physical assaults for their faith in the True Gospel of Christ Jesus. I will say this much for now... The Truth holds that for those who hide there twisted beliefs for fear of being exposed as frauds to the public have no place to say they can hide this from others. We'll see what happens from here. God's Grace to those who will receive it in Truth as it is exposed to all the world. denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
WOW! I go out to grocery shop etc, and I come back to more assumptions made about me! But I guess I'm used to that from the Indy-Slander-Machine. BTW, Denny apologizes about the misspellings above. He was in a hurry and I wasn't here to proof-read... LOL Regarding Kathy Peters: I have yet to ever read or hear anything bad about Kathy Peters. In any post where she has been mentioned, and in any private "behind the scenes" conversation, every single person has had NOTHING BUT GOOD things to say about Kathy Peters. Most everyone said that she is one of the sweetest women a person could know. Frankly, from all I've heard, I really admire and care about the woman. So as far as showing outrage, I really have no idea what I'm supposed to be outraged about as far as "slander" of Kathy. I simply haven't seen any. What I have been outraged about has been the times and the ways that I have heard about her being mistreated. This has been a recurring story, and Kathy (along with others) has been in my most serious heart prayers before God for months. And it seems HIGHLY UNLIKELY to me that a woman would be appalled that her "health problems" would be "announced to the world" and then would proceed to actually detail them HERSELF! I don't know ANY women who would have written such details of their own female stuff. So take that to mean what you will. And no, once again, all your vitriol about my husband and the situation regarding our former church and how we found factnet is simply NOT TRUE. I'm pretty sure that people who are not brainwashed into straining gnats/swallowing camels can see that though. Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
I have to say is that this is and always will be to me about reclaiming the Grace by which we are saved!!! This is about standing against false teachings. Never in my life have I heard a group so full of arrogance. (and I too was like that when I was under the teachings) Thay are near perfect according to their testimonies of self and we are the only ones I hear admitting faults. Do they even need Jesus, they have no problems. I guess they have a reputaion to protect. Chris o even said that they are beyond reproach: quote from wirk post 190- "you can't imagine that others actually could wash, cleanse and purify themselves to a point that is utterly beyond reproach, and it ANGERS you all that your lives were shown for what they were" This is why i will continue to stand against what you have put yourself under. See, I believe that Jesus bled and died to cleanse and wash me, it is not something i do myself!!! And I could never claim to be "utterly beyond reproach" because there is but ONE RIGHTEOUS ONE! HIS NAME IS JESUS! I am clothed in HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and I believe this by faith because I know I have none of my own righteousness to claim. God purifies us and this alone is part of His marvelous and majestic nature. He loved us while we were yet vile sinners. Do you get that down deep? He says he is meek and lowly and that His burden is light. Is His burden light for you? The quote above is enough to expose your error. I am glad that the clanging gong we all heard had stopped for a moment. I will never truly understand why anyone in Indy would let him be a spokesperson for them. That in and of itself says volumes about them I never knew. I am also offended that he repeatedly attacks a women (Jen Elslager). He mentioned her by name several times. Does this seem odd to anyone? Elizabeth Nelson enelson8735@yahoo.com | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
That quote from Chris really struck me too. I'm glad you brought it up. I am in complete agreement with what you said about having no righteousness of our own to claim. And given the sheer numbers of nearly identical testimonies, it is clear that they are NOT above reproach. And thanks for defending me... love ya, Elizabeth!! | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.165.245 |
To KP, I am sorry to hear of your past health struggles. I really didn't get anything negative about you from the anonymous post. And I would have known nothing of your painful health situation except from what you shared with us. As far as feeling that a hard time in your life was brought up I can relate. You see, my husband and I had some very painful problems in our marriage. These problems have since been healed and restored by God in many ways. But, some people very close to you decided to share some misinformation with a complete stranger to us named Chris O. He then wrote of things he knew not of here on Factnet. He has never even met us. He accused my husband of things he never did or would do. So if we keep things on the same standard that you are speaking on what do you think of that? If you are allowed to read this and correspond privately I'd really like to hear your thoughts. And I am truly glad to hear all is well with you. I too have heard nothing but good about you and my heart goes out to you. Elizabeth Nelson enelson8735@yahoo.com | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 328 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I have been praying and considering why Mike Peters would wish to have Chris or any of his adherents speak of my wife Jen as being such an offense to them as they say in different ways. I have my thoughts I wish to share. My wife seems to have won top prize from Mike Peters camp for many things as I quote from them verbatim: “Jen Elslager in particular is infamous…” Jen also seem to have won the award a “ring leader” by them. And obviously if Chris has been given the right to post Kathy’s personal messages, MP is clearly in full agreement with all Chris is saying here or there. I going to say this as gently as I think I should: I believe that Mike is boohooing! My wife has been somewhat instrumental --as have so many others-- in uncovered Mike’s duplicity and I think this really gets under his skin bad. I truly believe Chris is only reflecting what his idol is giving to him. Or at least trying hard to get up in the ranks, if this were even possible after this all comes down. Do consider the context of this but look carefully at these quotes from them: “The reaction to this is ENTIRELY predictable, esp. one the part of one Jen Elslager. And I want to bring to everyone's attention that: NO ONE IN INDY OR COLUMBUS STARTED THIS WHOLE MESS…” What happened back on April 11 that seems to have stuck with Mike all this time? I believe he is crying because my wife hit him with something he never expected when she came on and said “I am appalled beyond words at the vicious lies…”. Talk about being nervous in Indy! This was a day they will never forget, as you can tell. And since then with every new witness they have had many more days that they may not soon forget. Let’s not get carried away with any unwarranted similarities here, but it is to be noted that Mike Peters like Abimelech in Judges 9 seems to hate the thought that a woman was used of God to bring judgment on his head before all to witness and tell of. I believe my wife was used in God’s design --as so many others have been greatly used in this matter-- to increase the motion of something God has been using since maleman began this matter of caring for his brother’s wellbeing and family. And until Mike repents or embarrasses himself before the whole world God will most likely bring others in to expose his doings. Mike, I really feel for you. I really wish it would be that you would repent and gain some sort of dignity here. I think you may truly say you believe that you can’t win in a fight against God, so you may wish to check your soul and see if you have really known Him as you think you have in your life. As it’s true that “knowledge puffs up” then what more severe effect must a belief in perverted knowledge have? BTW, the truth is my wife has been speaking of having great compassion and concern for your wife since she learned of what Kathy must be going through with a man like you. denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| outside_in New member Username: outside_in Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.162.51.201 |
Once again, as an observer, I see that those in the INDY group, chose to make excuses for their behavior and vilify others. Kathy Peters admits that she said what was related in the Anonymous testimony and then denies it and makes excuses at the same time. She is responsible for what she says whether or not she had a medical condition. If she said it, and was wrong, say so. If she didn't say it, then say so. Kathy, upon taking offense for another, you brought up yet another person's sin, and then embellished it, just exactly like Chris O and Mike and Dan and Sigh have done repeatedly over the last months. I would encourage everyone not to "feel sorry" for Kathy because she is a woman or because she was less aggressive in her writing. She has now exhibited the exact actions and tendencies as the others. She simply was more polite when she drove the knife in. A murderer does not recieve a lighter sentence just because they smiled while killing a person. The fact remains that when confronted with a "wrong", this group lashes out and lies and screams and threatens and then writes that this is what is happening to them. It is clearly delusional and should be addressed rationally and clearly. Dennis and Jen, you are doing fine, but I would caution you and others to not tease and provoke, even when you are attacked. This is the better way. | ||
| skeza2505 Junior Member Username: skeza2505 Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.132 |
Kathy P. wrote: "Just feeling like you had the right to announce up my female health problems to the world is appalling. Jesus protects; He doesn't announce other people's pain for His own benefit." Don't you think it's interesting that, for one, ChrisO knew that this statement would be noticed; so much so that he felt the need to validate with some more of his mumbo-jumbo. I know that he did this as an attempt to keep us from "predictably" pointing it out. But I am going to talk about it anyway. I find it very interesting that Kathy said this and then in the same breath spoke of someone else's past sins. This doesn't make any sense to me, because her words in this quote are so wise and it is something that so many here have been saying for so long. However, these words are not reflected in their actions, not in the least. Apparently the words "Jesus protects; he doesn't annouce other people's pain for his own benefit" only apply if you are in sync with Mike Peters and his ways. Apparently Jesus doesn't protect you any more once you leave Indy. I loved Kathy Peters, and still do. I think you are wrong, Outside_In, to say "I would encourage everyone not to "feel sorry" for Kathy because she is a woman or because she was less aggressive in her writing." Because for one, I don't think any one feels sorry for her for those reasons; we feel sorry for her for the same reasons that we feel sorry for all of them: WE WANT TO SEE THEM FREE. It is sad, more than anything else, to see her echo the words of others. Because it's just another example of how deep Mike's teachings have gone: He's even gotten his own wife to believe his twisted words and accept his controlling ways. Kathy had a beautiful, kind spirit. But Mike has transformed it to his own image, as he has done with so many of his followers. I ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO FEEL, DEEP DOWN IN YOUR SOUL, HEART WRENCHINGLY, AGONIZINGLY SORRY FOR EVERY ONE OF THEM IN INDY AND RELATED "CHURCHES". Because while you know the grace and joy of Jesus Christ, these people do not. While you are free to worship and pray to God for yourself, they are not. Pray that their tortured, wounded souls may find rest and peace. | ||
| baxter New member Username: baxter Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
"state your testimony out front, in the open, and with NAMES, as **GOD DEMANDS**???!!!" Pardon my ignorance, but I would like to know what scripture or principle in particular you are referring to here, if you would be so kind as to "enlighten" me. “and it ANGERS you all that your lives were shown for what they were in some of the most gross and indescribable sin then AND NOW (and a lot if not most of it sexual in nature, which again, as I said, you don't have to go far for your "material.")” It seems that the anger that you so often refer to is coming more from, UH, you, ChrisO. I haven’t seen the kind of ranting and raving on this site as I have from you. And I believe I read somewhere “those that are controlled by the sinful nature CANNOT please God.” Secondly, again, pardon my ignorance, but I’m really trying. Now of all the sins you continue to mention here, which one is “unpardonable“? And what does one have to do to gain pardon for the pardonable ones? It also seems to me that I read somewhere “Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.” How does that fit in with all that you have been saying on this site? And IF someone is over taken in a trespass aren’t you who are SPIRITUAL supposed to restore such a one in a spirit of GENTLENESS? Hmmmm, something just doesn't seem right. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.233 |
Skeeza, you are ABSOLUTELY right. Kathy was and I would bet still IS a kind and gentle woman. She wasn't like the others. She didn't go around watch-dogging like everyone else and she didn't show partiality. But, she wasn't FREE to be who God desired her to be. And she MAY have written that letter, but under compulsion as we have all felt and behaved knowing the consequences of anything short of their expectations. Kathy, we are sorry you aren't FREE to be the beautiful woman that you ARE. And we know that your spiritual beauty has nothing to do with Mike. Hopefully, soon! | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
Just want to state once more, for the record, I really do care a great deal about Kathy. So before too many assumptions are made regarding her, maybe we should consider a few things. Beyond what I stated earlier, that most women would never detail their private physical matters in a public forum, there are a few other notable issues. 1) No defense whatsoever of her husband in the matter regarding the single mother. If someone said that about my husband, I think I would have at least addressed it. 2) Very solid and STRONG defense of the character of the single mother. Why such strong defense of the woman with such glowing terms of affection for her, yet no defense of her husband in this matter or glowing terms about his character? 3) I have been told by some who know her personally that this sounds nothing like Kathy's manner of speaking. Word usage, accusatory tone, etc. 4) Why would she post through Chris instead of getting her own FACTnet account or posting through Mike's? Did Kathy really write this, or did someone else? I also would love to communicate directly with Kathy and let her know I really care and am praying for her. I will be praying that God will provide a way for her to know how much we care for her, since I feel she may not even really be aware of any of this. Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| outside_in New member Username: outside_in Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.162.51.201 |
Skeza, I respect your opinion. You have written very well and given a lot of insight. You wrote that I was wrong to encourage folks not to "feel sorry" for Kathy Peters. May I clarify that this was not in the context of not having mercy or grace, but in the sense of not "letting her off the hook" for her statements. If this indeed was her speaking (writing), then she is accountable for the damage that she did. No more so than anyone else, of course, and not to condemn her unjustly, but merely to point out that it was wrong - and in allegiance with this group. Many of the folks who have come out of this group have taken responsibility for their wrong-doings. As a leader, Mike Peters will account for his actions and for that of his group, but so will the followers account for their actions, without excuse. Thankfully, it will be in front of the same Merciful God, who send a Saviour for us all and whose Blood is sufficient for All. | ||
| skeza2505 Junior Member Username: skeza2505 Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 66.90.73.132 |
Outside_In, I'm sorry if I came off like I was upset with you...I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I just got a little passionate while I was writing and didn't stop to think about how it would come across. Anyway I DO agree that they are all individually responsible for their actions...no such excuses as "The devil made me do it"..or more likely, "Mike Peters made me do it" (although I don't really see much of a difference between the two) will get past God. And in that respect, I DO see your point. Lisa skeza2505@hushmail.com | ||
| speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
I want to thank you, outside_in, for your concern about our taunting or teasing Mike or his adherents. I think of Elijah as I am aware of the nature and spirit of Mike and his adherents as seen through their words and fruit. Counting the fruit as described through many witnesses of which all agree. And we see the same patterns repeated by Mike, his present followers, and those who have escaped his mental grip to testify of it. Mike is a mere human as any of us. He is not a god of sorts, except in the eyes of his adherents. Because they see him as an “mighty unequalled apostle” I think it’s good for them to come to realize he is not all they think he is. Just as the prophets of Baal were taunted for believing in a false power of god in their professed belief, I am praying for mindfulness as I speak to or about Mike for who he really is (1 Kings 18). He is only a powerless mere human who thinks he is something special and has fooled a few in this. God dwells with all who walk with Him in His Truth. And as God has promised in His Word, I BELIEVE HIM! For it is written “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” Just replace Baal with Mike in this application, and see that it is also written of these individuals “Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.” If we REALLY take God at His Words, what am I to believe and do about this? Also, I never want to forget those in his following who are ruthlessly bound to Mike's legalism. This is not just speaking to outside_in, and this is not to seem overly defensive for God knows my heart in this, but --as I hope you will see here-- it is for the sake of understanding for others... I realize that some do not approve of all I do here, but I am not in a human court and wish to only know God's judgment on matters. All may freely judge me according to the Truth of God’s Word, for this is my Judge through the Body of Christ as real believers know Him in Spirit and Truth. In fact, it has been my expressed desire that others in Christ will let me know whatever I may need to be aware of from our ONLY TRUE AND TRUSTED GUIDE/INSTRUCTION BOOK FOR LIFE. This is the ONLY WAY any will convince me I am doing wrong. I wish to prove this by your honest insight from God expressed to me though the Truth. For I have and will change my ways according to this loving correction as I see it is so in God's Word. Please, don't take this in any way except to see that HE --the Living Word-- is the ONLY ONE I Trust to not lead me astray. I do apologize to any who don’t agree with the way I do things. If any have some guidance from God’s Word or if any have any questions as to the motives of why I do what I do, you are free to ask me. As you see, I will answer. And as some others have seen, I will change my ways when you are proven right. God Bless! denny.elslager@gmail.com PS: And as for my lovely wife Jen, for all she has been through, she has a good sense of humor which helps keep my feet on the earth. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
Correct me if I am wrong, but as a lover of the WORD of God, and not having any agenda but HIS, if someone gave me an open invitation to proclaim His word in truth, I'd JUMP on that. Earlier I asked you, ChrisO, to tell me what scripture in the WORD OF GOD were you specifically speaking of when you vehemently proclaimed that GOD DEMANDED that we "state your testimony out front, in the open, and with NAMES, as **GOD DEMANDS**???!!!" I really want to know what scripture reference you are referring to. Because if you are going to go around ranting and raving “thus saith the Lord” then at least back it up with scripture. IT MAY be there, I don’t know, but I want to. SO TELL ME. Secondly, I really want to KNOW what is the unpardonable sin? It seems to me that if it is SOULS you really cared about, then you have a platform here to proclaim the gospel and to demonstrate the LOVE of Jesus that turns people from their sins. If someone asked me “How do I receive PARDON, and MERCY, I would be delighted!. So I ask you, HOW do you receive pardon for the sins you mention and accuse others of committing? | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.63.164 |
Outside_in, I totally see what you are trying to express here. KP (if that even was her) did turn right around and point out sins of someone else, which i doubt are the whole truth. I have yet to see anyone from Indy list the sins of others truthfully anyway. I agree with Lisa and Jen, and feel great compassion for those under Mike's control. And I don't believe it is really Kathy Peters either. I have reason to believe Mike would falsify it if it would make him look better (even though it doesn't). The reason I would not put falsifying past him is because he made a fake email for someone to give to me once. C.M. spoke to Mike about some things I went to her about. She didn't tell me this initially, but gave me an email from a woman named "mary" to Mike. It was my life and situation to a tee. This woman "mary" was talking about her painful marriage. When I read it in front of C.M. I was overwhelmed with emotion. I couldn't believe someone else knew how I felt, and of course, Mike answered her in his usual super-hero "last man standing" fashion. When she saw my reaction I think she felt wrong and told me it was writen for me and that "mary" was a person Mike made up so that he could address my situation. I felt so munipulated!!! Of course because of the deception I allowed in, I excused him. I guess to them the end justifies the means. A side note about my marriage, as I have shared before we had problems that Mike Peters did not cause. BUT, his teachings turned me agaist him in a way that did not help him to see the love of God. With them it is all about making people line up with Mike Peter's doctrine. I am not trying to get off the subject I just want to warn others of the deception that Mike Peters uses. I have often wondered since just how many of those "letters" from others were the same false writings that Mike himself conjured up. Kinda' like the wizard of OZ. ??? | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
There seems to be no absolution for sin unless you belong to Mike Peters. Mike, don't you think you ought to back up your disciple, ChrisO? What IS the gospel? Answer or NO answer, it's evidence to the readers! And they ARE reading, letters are coming in from across the sea! | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 110 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Baxter is right, where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the message of salvation for lost sinners? On another note, graceisenough, Mike wrote a fake email to "mary" but it really was about you? Let me get this straight, the purpose for fabricating this letter was to minister unto you? | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
Wow, Chris, for someone who himself got kicked out, you sure are in the middle of everything, that didn’t even happen in Indy unless you were part of the elite crowd. Why exactly did you get the boot? You seem to “delight” in naming off everyone’s indiscretions: “Meanwhile, the rap sheet on your lives of fornication, sensual and sexual perversions, child-endangerment, wife abuse, wife stealing, dealings with lesbians, perverted and sensual movie watching and reality game playing is WELL DOCUMENTED throughout the internet EVEN NOW, much less the countless witnesses to your perversions and sins, including some in your number with actual police records in several cities (public record!).” I am still amazed! How do you get all your inside information: “I know fully well what "situation" your anonymous, evil "friend" has written about, and I can say beyond a doubt there was never ever even a HINT of anything like what he/she so cowardedly describes in that man's life.” “Again, as I stated, I know exactly what situation this evil liar and insinuator is talking about, and just like so many other things twisted, slighted and concocted out of half-truths, necessary information is always left out to make it seem like people here WANT it to seem.” (“RIGHT BACK ATCHA”) Just another example of "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous'" lies, false testimony, and innuendo. Mike's golf since that time has never been "every day" ever (I've checked with his wife).” and since I personally know "who" and "what" this not-so-anonymous person (MR -- whom I also know) is talking about on Tim Dennis' slander site, let me point out a few things for those reading at home again, since for the demonics running this thread with their own following of a handful of dissidents, it's not going to matter anyway “And, even though it's none of "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous'" business (not to mention "Mr. Not-So-Anonymous" hasn't lived anywhere near Mike in a decade or more), Mike will sometimes play twice in a week, and then go for three or four weeks or longer and never touch a golf club.” Wow, you can say that now? “Non of your business!“ I remember that everything about everyone WAS one another’s business. And if Mike’s going to be a “leader” of a church, he better be accountable, therefore it IS everyone’s business. “Mike hasn't always bought all of his own golfing equipment, if it's anyone's business anyway.” Oops, there’s that phrase again. | ||
| joythruchrist Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 |
If Chris KNOWS all of us vile sinners SO VERY WELL --well enough to have all the dirty details that would make a reporter at the National Enquirer leap for joy-- then would it not logically follow that these people also KNOW Chris? And since they KNOW him, wouldn't they KNOW all about his sins? I wonder why none of THEM have ever detailed the severity of the VILE SINS that got Chris kicked out of Indy... Oh, yeah, I believe it's called GRACE. Is that doctrine anywhere in the Indy teachings? I haven't found it yet, and from what I've heard, it doesn't get put into practice either... joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.63.164 |
Thanks Baxter for highlighting the lack of Jesus redemptive heart from the Indy camp. They do not have a revelation of grace, they have something like making room, only if you are "in" or a violent supporter (like Chris). To answer Danrepent, yes, Mike wrote a fake to himself from "mary" then he answered it. He then had a person (who I still love) give me a printout of the fake email. This person who gave it to me, C.M., who I believe had enough conscience to take me aside and tell me it was made up. She saw that I was so amazed and I must have kept saying something like, "wow, I can't believe someone has the same exact story as me!" I also think he does things like this to protect himself. Because he does tell people what to do. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.63.164 |
http://www.letusreason.org/Cult19.htm I found this cleaning out my favorites. I only read the home page so I haven't checked the whole site. I thought it may be helpful for some. | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.63.164 |
correction, sorry! I didn't mean home page, I read the page above I linked to and the tabs on the side about cults. The similarity in the International church of Christ to indy/Mike is amazing. I believe it is due to Mike's church of Christ background. | ||
| needhim New member Username: needhim Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.254.37.96 |
chris o. this is paul and missy b. i ran across this website and found it to be very disturbing!As they hated the real Jesus in His day and killed Him. They will also hate the real Jesus and His body today. Boy oh boy you can see them polishing their axes. If this is the Chris i know you and the others in Indy went out of your way to sacrifice,love,give,pray for,encourage,serve,wash my feet(not liturally)but in service and love.Living out a real Jesus life.Never seen that anywhere else. yet. If you would care to contact me feel free. needhim2day@sbcglobal.net | ||
| nintai New member Username: nintai Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.15.247.4 |
So, Paul and Missy B., just a few honest questions. Is the church in Indianapolis, and others affiliated with it, the only true church? Can a true church own a building and have a paid preacher? BTW, I don't own an axe. Also, I have plenty of people who could point to my sacrifice, love, prayer, encouragement, service, foot washing. Not that I'm anyone special. I won't discuss specific instances with you; he said, she said kind of things, in my mind, don't mean as much if you don't know the people involved. But I'm always willing to dig down to the truth of what God is really saying in the bible. And I do have some issues with the way that wonderful "love" you wrote about is sometimes expressed. You don't have to see too many lives wrecked before you start asking questions? I mean, is it okay to ask questions? Or is it a sin to have ANYTHING negative to say about Indianapolis or Mike Peters? Mike nintai1@gmail.com | ||
| graceisenough New member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.175.244 |
Dear NeedHim, I don't want opposing views to feel unwelcome or attacked here so please understand I am just really curious. Could you tell me how you hear, feel, or see -- "sacrifice,love,give,pray for,encourage,serve,wash my feet(not liturally)but in service and love.Living out a real Jesus life" in anything Chris O has ever said? If you can show me these things you've listed in Chris O's posts I will not argue you. I am just puzzled. Elizabeth enelson8735@yahoo.com | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
I don’t know why your post seems highly suspect, needhim, but I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt. How did you stumble across this site? Are you now, or have you ever been a part of Indy and it’s offshoots? If Indy is the only place that you have EVER come across people who love God and serve His people then three things can be concluded: 1. You haven’t been around much. 2. You are judgmental of God’s children and nothing ever seems to measure up, (which you probably learned from your teacher). And 3. Indy and it’s affiliates are the ONLY REAL thing out there and EVERYONE else is pathetic at least in your mind. Would you care to answer which one? I have heard how people from Indy and still connected to MP refer to their people as “blood bought saints”, does that mean there are NO others? And if you DO admit there are others, are they less valuable? What if they meet with others "in a building"? Are they not worthy of any consideration? Could you fellowship with them? Or would you secretly judge them and keep your distance and try to get them to see that the only REAL way and the only RIGHT way is as it is in INDY? I’m curious, who do you fellowship with IF you aren’t a part of Indy? And what on this site have you heard that implies the people here, that are trying to expose the gross misapplication of God’s Word, hate Jesus? Why do you conclude that we hate His Body? Are you saying that Indy is the ONLY body the Lord has? And BTW, I believe I can speak for all of us, we don’t “hate” the people in Indy or its affiliates, we “hate” what they steal from God’s children by their practices (i.e. joy, peace, love, life, enthusiasm etc.) I mean, look at Chris, I don’t hear the words of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control pouring forth from his mouth. Why is that? AND Chris, you haven’t answered the question about why you were asked to leave Indy? You have proclaimed everyone’s “supposed” sins, but have failed to include yourself in the shipwrecks that have been asked to leave. How come? How are you different? I am really sorry that you, too, are not free to LOVE. | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.35.13 |
I don't know if anyone here has ever watched the movie 'The Village', but I was watching it tonight and it really portrays the power of manipulating the mind - and I could not help but parallel the cult tactics of manipulating the mind through fear. Mr. Walker in the movie somehow reminds me of Mike Peters. This movie is listed among the Horror genre (something I don't usually watch), but since the plot revolves a lot about the power of FEAR, they added a lot of those suspenseful elements warranting it to be classified 'horror'. You may not want to watch this, but you can look up the synopsis online to get the idea of the movie. I think Indy in it's own way has become somewhat of such 'village'. Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.223 |
Yes, Theophilus, I saw the "Village", it's VERY similar to the mind control tactics in Indy, at least in principle. I watched it with some people who been in Indy and they thought it had "eerie" similarities. It was painful to watch in that I could "relate". Another brother mentioned that movie, also, in light of Indy. | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
I concur with "the village" similarity. And also on a different note, I wonder how someone like needhim could just "stumble" onto factnet. If you are in agreement with Mike P., you would never do an internet background check on him. I never did until I got suspicious that it was a cult. Before I started researching cults, I never had heard of factnet. I guess it is possible that they were just checking the internet for something else. My hypothesis is that they found out through the grape vine that some folks were “persecuting” the church. 1 Peter 2:20 “But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it?” 1 Peter 4:15 “If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.” It is clear to me and many that the Church in Indianapolis established by Mike Peters is corrupt beyond belief and the suffering that factnet and www.indianapoliscult.com has and will cause is because of the evil they have done and continue to do. If God still considers Indianapolis a church, then may the Power of the Holy Spirit call the chosen out of this, before the lamp stand is taken. It is my firm belief that there are just as many unbelievers in the Church in Indianapolis as there are in any main stream denomination proportionately. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 208.53.138.234 |
Good afternoon, EVERYONE! There is this radio show I enjoy listening to. It's called "Words to Live BY". It's part of RBC ministries. The REASON I enjoy it is because it is just a program of peoples' testimonies. I thought I would share today's with you. It's a story of a precious widow and how the Lord has worked in her life. It's a 30 minute broadcast. I believe you will be blessed and encouraged. I'm not expecting anyone from the Peterite camp to be blessed and encouraged because there are a lot of things on there that they would probably judge. But for the rest, it's a simple message of how the Lord worked in her life and led her. I like these programs because after being connected with Indy, it had such an effect on my faith and in God's "seeming" inability to work in people's lives that they help to rebuild the HOPE I had. http://www.radiobibleclass.org/radio_and_tv/words_to_live_by/50786.aspx | ||
| cult_fighter Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Back to Kathy Peters: While I truly DO have compassion for this woman, there are a few things that must be pointed out about her posting (through "outsider" Chris O): 1. She follows in the exact same pattern as all others in her group -- attacking the critic by detailing his "many sins". I truly believe these folks keep a filing cabinet (literal or electronic) of "dirt" on past members. 2. Like others have noted, while Kathy says her marriage is strong today, she says NOTHING to deny what was said about Mike and the "single mother". From Mr. Anonymous' story about this, he said: "His wife <kp> would often break into tears over this crying to myself and others that she just couldn’t handle it any more." It's very enlightening that Kathy does NOT deny this! The fact that their marriage is good today does not make the above story false! 3. What disturbs me MOST about Kathy's posting is the following statement of hers: "That one conversation you have totally twisted to cover your tracks in order to bring more abuse and pain to my very close friend who happens to be your wife and whom I have known four years longer than you have! She does not deserve all you have done to her!!!! She herself is absolutely precious and had never deserved having a husband who defames Jesus' Name" >> For some reason, Kathy seems to think it's important to note that SHE has known this wife of Mr. Anonymous "longer than" he has. Why is this important? Like others in her group, she forgets that SHE is ONLY ANOTHER SILLY CHURCH FRIEND, while he is her God-given husband!! Her relationship with this woman is utterly unimportant -- yet I don't think she sees this. Can we assume that this is yet ANOTHER wife who has been told to "withhold affection" from her husband? Can we also assume that Kathy Peters is a part of this most VILE marriage-wrecking practice? | ||
| scannyd New member Username: scannyd Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Hi All, After talking to some of you I thought you could relate to these lyrics. It sounds like this is what happens when you get involved with the Indy people. I found it this weekend. It is by Skillet and is called "falling inside the black". Danielle (Tonight I’m so alone This sorrow takes ahold Don’t leave me here so cold Never want to be so cold Your touch used to be so kind Your touch used to give me life I’ve waited all this time, I’ve wasted so much time Don’t leave me alone Cause I barely see at all Don’t leave me alone, I’m Chorus: falling in the black Slipping through the cracks Falling to the depths can I ever go back Dreaming of the way it used to be Can you hear me falling in the black Slipping through the cracks Falling to the depths can I ever go back Falling inside the black Falling inside falling inside the black You were my source of strength I’ve traded everything That I love for this one thing Stranded in the offering Don’t leave me here like this Can’t hear me scream from the abyss And now I wish for you my desire Don’t leave me alone cause I barely see at all) | ||
| sofiarza New member Username: sofiarza Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.8.228.29 |
Hi there everyone! I have never seen this site before, but since I was told about it and read some of this incredible stuff, I had to post what is on my heart. So I will be back,for sure!! | ||
| sofiarza New member Username: sofiarza Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.8.228.29 |
Well, where would I begin or even think I could add, to all of the words I have just read??? Praise the Lord! Yes, that is where I must begin! Praising HIS name, for He is my savior and in Him, all has been accomplished. I guess, primarily, I feel saddened. Eventhough I departed ways with this group out of Columbus nearly five years ago, (April 2002) I see it going strong. Like an uncontrollable virus. And it is true, once you stand back and look from the outside and see the fruit that this group actually produces, you can't help but see the truth. I remember my husband having to take his commercial airplane up and above the hurricane clouds. It was highly impressive. Why? Cause I remember how the weather was below this cloud coverage. It was dark, wet, windy, noisy, (like a freight train going through the living room)and you felt out of control and subjected to the tempest. We were just pawns in the drama being played out on that tropical island. But once the aircraft completely fought thru the clouds and was on top of the storm, it was smoothe sailing. No severe turbulance, the sun was shining, it was dry and the air was calm and peaceful. Exactly how I would describe my time and how I experienced my fellowship with this group in Ohio. Chaotic and the people certainly not filled with the grace of the Lord I knew. What a relief to be out of it and having brain capacity to see through the lies. My frontal lobes (the reasoning part of our lovely brain) was no longer numbed by the twisted emails. And the peace that surpasses all understanding was once again through the scriptures. 'Solo escritura' as Martin Luther would post it, if he were present through all of this. Also, I might add that the author and finisher of my faith is Christ alone. Think about guys, If Christ in His earthly ministry did not save humanity from every aspect of sin, HE ceases to be our complete Savior. Then the gospel is robbed of its full power of salvation. And if there are some that believe that the flesh, which is sin and nothing good dwells in it, can be totally overcome through the power of the indwelling Spirit in our lifetime, then I submit that these believers, somehow, make the Holy Spirit a co-redeemer with Christ. That Christ's work was not finished and the Spirit gets equal billing with Christ. Scripture nowhere presents such an idea. The Holy Spirit's part in the plan of salvation is to communicate to us the good news of the gospel, to make real our experience of what Christ has already obtained for us through His birth, life, death, and resurrection. On the cross, the collective, or corporate, life of the fallen human race died forever in christ. Paul declared to the Corinthians, "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creatiohn, old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" This is not just good news, it is FANTASTIC new. How do we lend a hand here in this epic drama of 2000 years ago. RELAX, we don't. We believe from the heart (not just a mental assent) and we respond by our confession of need, (cause we can't do anything but... ) and then the heart responds in willing obedience to walk differently. Christ totally and completely redeemed mankind from ever aspect of sin. We don't have to put in any work of ourselves. It's the process of sanctification... this the HS certainly does. No human being even need apply for the job here. Mike, Dan, Gregg, Pope whoever, don't even think you can help here. It is a pretty much hidden process with visible results..(if not force down your throat) | ||
| sofiarza New member Username: sofiarza Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 75.8.228.29 |
Yes, scripture refers to holy living, or fruit bearing, as sanctification. Sanctification, like justification also comes to us by faith. These fruits do not contribute one iota towards our justificaion, or entitlement to heaven. Instead, these fruits are a witness to the salvation we already possess in Christ through faith. Although sanctification is certainly good news to us vile sinners, we must never equate it with the gospel. It is merely the fruit of the gospel. Failure to grasp these details, WILL produce certain results. Spiritual insecurity is a common one. (and I even have to echo to the sounds of the one email I read about suicide. Wow!! talk about being insecure in Christ. This is one fruit that is straight from satan. I NEVER had thoughts like that ever!!! But I did when I got with these perfect ones in Ohio) But if you get involved with the Little Turtle group in Columbus or even Indy, YOU are going to go places where you never dreamed of. And another fruit of this kind of fellowship is the lack of joy and a lack of peace. There was always some turmoil these busy beavers were conjuring up. Not that they were aware of it, but when you stand back and look at it for what it is, I call it like it is. Evil!!! Not the Holy or sanctified lifestyle they 'think' it is. Have mercy!! Well, suffice to say, there is hope. I can testify to this. I have been de-programmed for about four years now and am happy about where the Lord has me. (out in California enjoying great fellowship with other fallen sinners, waiting for the redemption that is nigh) May the Lord increase and we all decrease this Holy Day Season..... ....sofia... | ||
| danrepent Intermediate Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 |
Does anyone know why Mike says there should be no titles among leaders (i.e. pastor), but he is the one who is basically King in Indianapolis. They now link their king's name to the allathisfeet website. Sounds scary! http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/mikepeterschurch.aspx | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.56.138.219 |
Sofia! Thank you for sharing what God has done for you! Our only hope in the finished work of the cross! No adding to it!!! No striving to please anyone! Did you ever think we'd see this day? Both of us free from this mindset that had us bound and then divided us? God Is Good! I love you, Sofia. | ||
| sofiarza New member Username: sofiarza Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 67.172.117.17 |
Hey my darlings, Elizabeth and Vincent.... What a blessing and encouragement you both have been to me during these years I have know you! May our hearts continue to be one in prayer for Rusty and Shelly. May Rusty take hold of his headship in his family and may Shelly be subdued by his authority in Christ. And that the lieing enemy be bound so they can hear the speaking of the true Holy Spirit. And that they would lead normal and productives lives free from this deception. This can happen.... I remember praying this exact thing for you two. I love you both!!! tu hermana en Cristo!!! ...sofia... | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.174.242 |
Amen! We have seen people set free. We will be talking to you soon. Your call was the highlight of the last few days. Yes, you are our sister! Our lives are woven together in a very special way and I am thankful for that. Elizabeth | ||
| graceisenough Junior Member Username: graceisenough Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.101.174.242 |
ps-- I am also thankful for those who came out of MP teachings and continued to pray for us. Sofia was one of them. We were close friends and I had been part of her being hurt deeply by being lorded over and then shunned. Sofia had the love of God for me when I came out. She rejoiced because God brought me out and she had already forgiven me for the pain we caused her. We are proof of the reconciliation and healing that Jesus can bring to anyone who repents for the wrong they've done in this group. | ||
| zadieboy New member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 63.164.145.85 |
HOT OFF PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! New Lawsuit Filed in Indianpolis Federal Court. Every Nation Cult, Dave Jamerson, and others listed as defendants. See www.truthinternationalinc.com for details Since I am one of the persons harmed along with my children I am detewrmined to exppose this cult for what it is. No, Every Nation you are NOT the "Chosen, the Elite, the Apostolic, the Ones and the Few." The real God is love, not some marketing program for professional athletes to direct them to a place where their pockets can be pilfered in the name of the Almighty. Jeff Saturday and Hunter Smith may well be fine men. I want to believe that. Don't be misled by the snare of the wicked one. People cannot change truth, and truth can change people. Good move, Dave Jamerson leaving. I wonder, is he avoiding service? If God is for us, who can be against us? | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
I know I'm several months late on this topic, but it seems weird that you guys would find fault with someone having multiple websites. People do that all the time. It's pretty common, actually. And as far as Mike Peters being linked with a website...obviously whoever did that Google search was looking for something. And when they did find something, they put a negative spin on it. Imagine someone was attacking you over the internet(deserved or otherwise). Would it not make sense to make sure that the #1 search engine worldwide would link your name with some positive information as well as the negative info out there? I know people will argue whether or not the information is positive...but you get my point. I don't see it as one man trying to make himself the focal point. You guys have done that. His linking his name to the church website is nothing more than defense tactics because of these type of forums(right or wrong). | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 198.172.207.70 |
Actually, I do not get your point, know_won. Have you been following this forum since the beginning? This is NOT about whether or not Mike Peters has multiple websites. THIS is about a man who controls the personal lives of individuals, manipulates them and ALSO controls what information they are privy to. What that does, is this man tells them what they can and cannot read, who they can and cannot spend time with, where they can and cannot go, where they will and will not live, when they can and cannot travel, who will go with them, and the list is endless. This is about a man who manligns and manipulates what truth is. He uses mind control tactics and beautifully. So no, I do not understand your post. Are you someone who has been influenced by him? Are you under his control? Do you have family members in his group who have shut themselves off to their families and people who love them? Do you realize this is a forum that is here to expose coercize and manipulative mind control tactics? If there were comments about whether or not this man has multiple websites, lets keep it in perspective. | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
Wow. And hello to you too. haha. First off, if you didn't get my point(like you said you didn't), why not ask for clarification instead of ranting? And secondly, if you didn't understand my post, why lash out at me simply because YOU don't understand? If you TRULY want perspective, take a look at the first post in this particular thread and then apply my post to it. Obviously I'm not looking to answer a year and a half worth of forum threads in a single post. And to answer your questions in order: Yes. No. Yes. Yes. Have a nice day! | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 198.172.207.70 |
I'm sorry, was there a problem with my not saying, "hello"? I must have missed yours when you came on. Okay, so your point to the first post on this particular thread is to explain to us that the reason Mike has bought the rights to the "house church" name or whatever else points people in his direction is to combat the negative information out there? Well yes, that does make sense. What cult wouldn't do that? And you're right, there are people out there that would argue whether or not that info is positive, that's why we have no problem encouraging people to examine the information for themselves. Do you think Mike would allow people to examine THIS "negative" information for themselves? I don't think so. You said you have been influenced by Mike, I am assuming you are thinking positively? You said by your answer that you do have family members who have shut themselves off from their families and those that love them, I am assuming you believe those family members deserve that, correct? And I believe I see the "implication" in the "No" answer, and if you ARE one of his disciples (or even Mike himself), neither would surprise me. (Message edited by baxter on August 08, 2007) | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
I'm sorry, was there a problem with my not saying, "hello"? I must have missed yours when you came on. -Is the blatant, mean-spirited sarcasm necessary? Okay, so your point to the first post on this particular thread is to explain to us that the reason Mike has bought the rights to the "house church" name or whatever else points people in his direction is to combat the negative information out there? Well yes, that does make sense. What cult wouldn't do that? -So because a cult would do it and Mike Peter's group did it, that means that they are a cult??? Faulty logic. And you're right, there are people out there that would argue whether or not that info is positive, that's why we have no problem encouraging people to examine the information for themselves. Do you think Mike would allow people to examine THIS "negative" information for themselves? I don't think so. -But you said that there are people from his group that post on here, right? So the answer is "yes". You said you have been influenced by Mike, I am assuming you are thinking positively? -Thinking positively? Are you asking if I think that Mike Peters influenced me in a positive way? If so, yes I do. You said by your answer that you do have family members who have shut themselves off from their families and those that love them, I am assuming you believe those family members deserve that, correct? -Why would you assume that? And I believe I see the "implication" in the "No" answer, and if you ARE one of his disciples (or even Mike himself), neither would surprise me. -Implication in "no"? Actually...it's an outright answer to your question. No gray areas. I was a yes or no question. So a yes is a yes and no is a yes, huh? You chastise Mike Peters for his belief that he's never wrong. I see he's influenced you as well. ;) | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 198.172.207.70 |
Well, actually, yes, he has influenced me and I am still working at getting it out of my system. That "spirit" is easy to recognize once you have been there. *shudder* | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
I just get the feeling that the only way I would have been warmly welcomed is if I came on here slandering Mike Peters. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 198.172.207.70 |
-Is the blatant, mean-spirited sarcasm necessary? Sarcasm? Yes it is sarcasm. Mean-spirited? I recall some of Mike’s teaching saying that Paul was sarcastic and that it was okay. I do not feel “mean-spirited”, I feel amused. But okay, I'll try to restrain myself. Would you deny that your “greeting” to me was without sarcasm? -So because a cult would do it and Mike Peter's group did it, that means that they are a cult??? Faulty logic. No I said what cult wouldn’t do it. I did not say because he did it that means he is a cult. -But you said that there are people from his group that post on here, right? So the answer is "yes". When did I say that there are people from his group that post on here? The people I think from his group that post on here is Mike, Mike through Chris, and MAYBE (and that's a BIG MAYBE) some of his elite ones, so NO, I do not believe he allows his followers to examine everything. -Thinking positively? Are you asking if I think that Mike Peters influenced me in a positive way? If so, yes I do. Nothing I can say here. “Warmly” welcomed? You are MORE than welcome here. We also are glad for the opportunity to ask some questions. However, how WARM do you expect those who have been abused and manipulated and traumatized to be with this man who has so much control over peoples lives? As warmly as he encourages woman to treat their husbands when they don’t hold to Mike’s teachings? -Why would you assume that? Well, if you believe in the “withholding affection doctrine” of Mike Peters then why else would you withhold affection? And if it isn’t as Mike Peters teaches, then when do you feel it’s appropriate according to the scriptures? And I believe I see the "implication" in the "No" answer, and if you ARE one of his disciples (or even Mike himself), neither would surprise me. -Implication in "no"? Actually...it's an outright answer to your question. No gray areas. I was a yes or no question. So a yes is a yes and no is a yes, huh? You chastise Mike Peters for his belief that he's never wrong. I see he's influenced you as well. ;) The “implication” I was referring to is that you are saying Mike has no control over “peoples” lives, would you agree that that is what you were inferring, or just over yours, but that it is still possible he has control over others? Perhaps you are only influenced by his writings and NOT by his applications to his writings. Maybe? Because it is mainly the applications of what he teaches that is dangerous to the mind and spirit of a man as you have seen from most testimonies here and at www.indianapoliscult.com | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
No...I wouldn't deny it was without sarcasm. In fact I would readily AGREE that it was. Try apologizing. That works too. You were clearly rude. Period. I just expected something different, I guess. So when you asked "What cult wouldn't?" that was a serious question? I just thought it was rhetorical...implying that all cults would do that. Since it's a real question I'm going to have to defer to the experts. Because I have no idea what cult wouldn't. You've mentioned Chris Olive being under the direction of Mike Peters. You've mentioned Mike Peters himself and some of his "elite". And you've mentioned various people from the Ohio branch too. I'm not part of that group and neither are you, so it's pure conjecture at this point. You asked how warm do I expect you guys to be with "this guy". (Mike Peters?) Who cares? I was talking about me. Why would I care how warm you are with Mike Peters? Just because you're mad at him, don't take it out on people you don't know. When did I ever say I agreed with the "withholding affection doctrine of Mike Peters"? You're just making things up now. I said I agreed with the withholding affection philosophy as outlined by the Bible. If you want to know when to apply it...read the Bible. Ask God to show you. I promise, He will if you're serious about finding out. The specific implication you were referring to makes no difference. What matters is that you asked a yes or no question, and then assumed I wasn't being straight forward. Why is that? Then you give me two options to clarify: either I was inferring that Mike has no control over others, or I was inferring that he has control over others, just not me. Maybe you should simply accept the answer for what it's worth. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.104.75 |
Dear know_won, I apologize for any sarcasm I used. I was under the belief that you are Mike, and I am not altogether sure that you are not. Not that whether or not you being Mike justifies my use of sarcasm, but my use of it was to point out that I was being accused of not using a “greeting”, when your first post was equally without one. I meant no harm, nor was there, as I said, anything “mean spirited” in it. I was just “amused”. If you still prefer to say it was rude, then I am sorry you perceived it that way. Now, how would I reword this to have not caused you to feel “unwelcome”? Hello, know_won. I see this is your first time posting.. Have you been following this forum since the beginning? I am sorry that you think its weird that someone made a comment about Mike having multiple websites or search words that would direct people to his site? That is only a small portion of the many other things that concern us about this man. If you would like to share your interest or involvement in this group we would love to hear what you have to say. However, if you have been following these threads since the beginning, you will see that our main concern is not about whether or not Mike Peters has multiple websites. This is about a man who controls the personal lives of individuals, manipulates them and ALSO controls what information they are privy to. What that does, is this man tells them what they can and cannot read, who they can and cannot spend time with, where they can and cannot go, where they will and will not live, when they can and cannot travel, who will go with them, and the list is endless. This is about a man who maligns and manipulates what truth is. He uses mind control tactics and beautifully. Are you someone who has been influenced by him? Are you under his control? Do you have family members in his group who have shut themselves off to their families and people who love them? Is there anything we can do to help you? | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
A appreciate your latest post. Let me start by saying that I never accused you of not using a greeting. And to be honest, that's really a petty thing to even bring up...especially in light of the fact that it's not true. I said I wasn't warmly welcomed onto this forum. That is not the same thing as wanting/needing any type of greeting. I felt your first post to me had a hostile tone. Whether or not you thought I was someone else has nothing to do with it. Regardless of my interest or affiliation, I felt some of the questions were sinply unfair. And since this is an open forum, I assumed that voicing that opinion would be OK. I never thought I would be greeted with the hostility and the pompous attitude you displayed. When I said that a certain type of question bothered me, you replied "And you are?", as if I hadn't yet reach the status to have an opinion on this forum. Like I needed to display the proper credentials to question something. Once we can get these things settled, then I think we can work towards te other things you are asking for. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.104.75 |
Dear know_won, I have a few other thoughts I was thinking about and I will try to say them as graciously as possible. There are several people on this forum who have been deeply affected by Mike Peters’ abusive and controlling tactics. It isn’t about being “mad” at Mike. We are talking about effects from his manipulating and twisting of scriptures that affect the deepest and most intimate part of a person…their faith in God and perspective of Him. Jesus warned of such people. By your comments you don’t “appear” to be someone on this forum who really seems to care about any of that or perhaps those so affected. And I am willing to be wrong on that and I hope I am. If you were hurt by my comments and questions I am sorry. Is the hurt and trauma and suffering of those who have been under Mike’s influence of any less importance than whether or not you were embraced? Are you hurting from Mike’s influence and practices and applications of spiritual truth? And what of the people who are not able to contact their families or their loved ones? When Mike’s group goes to “visit” people they always make sure they have “another set of eyes” with them and the person(s) they are trying to condemn or belittle have no one. Is it possible for the family members outside the group to approach those inside the group, getting them alone and have the ones outside the group have several with them to perhaps shed some light on Indy? Some of them have come on here to express their concern and give their testimonies having been concerned for years that their family was caught in a spiritually destructive cult. Anyway, when you say it doesn’t matter to you how warm we are toward Mike Peters, but that you were talking about yourself (“You asked how warm do I expect you guys to be with "this guy". (Mike Peters?) Who cares? I was talking about me. Why would I care how warm you are with Mike Peters? Just because you're mad at him, don't take it out on people you don't know.”) I just wonder what your need is? Because it sounds by that that there might be one and we would like to be here for you as we want to be with anyone who has been spiritually abused by Mike. Your last post: “I never thought I would be greeted with the hostility and the pompous attitude you displayed. When I said that a certain type of question bothered me, you replied "And you are?", as if I hadn't yet reach the status to have an opinion on this forum. Like I needed to display the proper credentials to question something. Once we can get these things settled, then I think we can work towards te other things you are asking for.” Now, in my opinion, this seemed like you had to get one more “shot off” before you could accept my apology. I will agree with you, the “and you are?” was uncalled for and I am sorry. As far as hostile? I didn’t feel that way at all. Pompous, well like I said, I am still trying to rid myself of the bad fruit that grows as a result of sitting under Mike’s teachings…one of them being a superior attitude. | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
Kno_Won, Not to cut off Baxter’s thoughts above, but I have to admit I think the way you came off was just as bad as your view of Baxter. The question of the day is, who are you in relation to the cult in Indianapolis? If you read this entire thread(s), then you know we have debated many supporters of this group. From Mike Peters to Chris O. What makes you any different? What people want to know is, what is your position on the cult issue? You read the article and have family in this group. Let’s talk about that rather than split hairs about formalities. | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
Baxter, I understand what the forum is about. But it seems like there is no room for questioning or even alternate opinions. I never said I cared about being embraced here. I actually said "warmly welcomed"...I guess they are the same, or close enough. And I never said I cared about it...just that it didn't seem like I was. My family and I were involved with this group for over five year. But none of that has anything to do with the comments I've posted. I get this feeling that people are sort of "tested" as soon as they post something to see if they fit into the "for us" or "against us" category. Again...just a feeling, not an accusation. I don't have a need to have warm feeling toward me. I just had an expectation that wasn't met and chose to express it. I was surprised by the negativity in some of the posts. But that's my fault for setting my expectations so high. I don't consider the things I've posted "firing shots". I felt hostility in your posts. I assumed they stemmed from someone seemingly going against the grain of your forum topic. If you say you weren't hostile, I'll accept that. As far as the bad fruit...you have to be accountable for your actions. You can't blame Mike for things you do. Thanks for your reply. | ||
| speakingtruth New member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
It’s been a while since I’ve posted here. I guess being away a bit helps clear some thinking and I’m thankful to God for this. As far as the recent activity here, one thing I am so very sure of is that God is not fooled by it and time will reveal all things. The light is bright when the Truth comes on clear and strong. And as long as we face our shortcomings and let God’s grace change us into His likeness He will keep us in this Light. As it has been with me and most of us sinners who must come to know grace to go on, so I see how we all need this here. Mercy triumphs over judgment. Victory is near to the broken in heart who lean not on legalism for change but rather the power of Christ's transforming grace. Glorious Grace! There is no condemnation that can stick when God’s Grace covers the contrite in His sight. And the Devil hates this fact and will attempt whatever he can to steer us away from true Holy Spirit convicting grace, or to distract us with a condemning spirit attempting to fool believers into thinking of it as the work of God. No thanks! I learned my lesson well. It is a hellish way for a Christian to go. And may God's grace protect others from it even through our warnings. Why did I say all of that? Because whether or not this newcomer ( know_won) is blinded by the teachings and spirit behind Mike Peters or not will be known and we don’t have to be too anxious about it. We pray he will come to see the Truth and I hope he/she will know this is not at all an attack but just a statement of what I truly believe regarding God’s sovereignty in this matter. We will know by God’s grace if he or she is of a sound mind as they remain. Mike, Dan, and others who choose cleave to a false gospel likely left because the light was too much for them. Chris is the best example we have seen of one who chose to stay and expose his true character further to us. Yes, many here where seriously abused by the likes of Mike Peters. And they are still growing in God’s grace as they struggle (understandable) with the nasty influence he had on their lives through his cultic practices. But this simply reflects that they are still in need of growing in grace as all of us are. Fall into legalism --if you choose-- to set your behavior in line in the sight of men, but this will estrange you from the wonderful, incredible power of knowing Christ Jesus personally. Another Jesus dressed up like Him can go on masquerading all he wants until Christ’s triumphant return but death is the end of all those who choose a way that “seems right” but is so far from the Love of God through our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ! Grace is too much for those who deny it. The power of Christ to save, transform, and keep us is accepted by those who know Him not by those who know a written code made up by a man abusing and misusing the Scriptures. Just taking the time to share my faith in the Gospel of Grace as it seems it may be a good time to remind us here of what we have in Jesus. I wish not to get stirred into speculations but rather the Spirit of Grace and prayer. I will pray for you, know_won. I do hope you know true Salvation that does not bind us in cords of legalism but sets us free from self, Satan, sin, and legalism. For all of the latter mentioned are of the same character. denny.elslager@gmail.com | ||
| danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 65.60.228.88 |
Kno_Won, You cracked the door open a little about your experience with this group. Can you expalin more about it? What was your overall experience like? | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.110.225 |
"As far as the bad fruit...you have to be accountable for your actions. You can't blame Mike for things you do." When someone brainwashes you and controls every aspect of your life, including your thought life because of the way he twists and manipulates the word of God and keeps everyone jumping through hoops using fear tactics, etc. it does have a profound negative effect on a person's being. That's a fact. Now I think that my saying "I" am trying to rid "myself" (by God's mercy, compassion, and grace) and apologizing I think I am taking responsibility for it. In this following scripture, whom did Jesus blame? Matt 23:15 ¶ "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.110.225 |
"I felt some of the questions were sinply unfair." 1. Have you been following this forum since the beginning? 2. Are you someone who has been influenced by him? 3. Are you under his control? 4. Do you have family members in his group who have shut themselves off to their families and people who love them? 5. Do you realize this is a forum that is here to expose coercize and manipulative mind control tactics? I just wondered which questions you felt were unfair, and then why you would say this, "But it seems like there is no room for questioning..." "My family and I were involved with this group for over five year. But none of that has anything to do with the comments I've posted. I get this feeling that people are sort of "tested" as soon as they post something to see if they fit into the "for us" or "against us" category. Again...just a feeling, not an accusation." Is there anything wrong with "testing"? Not "testing the spirits to see whether or not they are of God" is what got many of us hurt. You say that your family was involved for 5 years. Are you no longer involved? And like danrepent asked, what was your overall experience like? | ||
| baxter Junior Member Username: baxter Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.110.225 |
"And since this is an open forum, I assumed that voicing that opinion would be OK. I never thought I would be greeted with the hostility and the pompous attitude you displayed." I never said it wasn't okay. You said you thought it was weird that we would find fault with someone who has multiple websites. Not knowing who you are or your experience with Mike and such, I was letting you know that it wasn't about Mike having multiple websites. Did we discuss it, yes, but that, as I said, was not the BIG problem. And I was just letting you know that. I do not think that was pompous or hostile. The only comment that I think I made that really was wrong was the "and you are?", for which I did apologize. The other one was this: "I'm sorry, was there a problem with my not saying, "hello"? I must have missed yours when you came on." And that was because if it was because there wasn't a "greeting" which I thought was implied by this: "Wow. And hello to you too. haha." I was just pointing out that you also did not have a "greeting" but came on out of the blue. Which is absolutely okay, we all did at one point or another. But it was unnecessary, too. "First off, if you didn't get my point(like you said you didn't), why not ask for clarification instead of ranting?" I thought my saying I didn't get your point would have implied the need for clarification. Why do you call my clarifying of why you thought something was weird "ranting". It was a brief paragraph. "And secondly, if you didn't understand my post, why lash out at me simply because YOU don't understand?" I wasn't "lashing out", I was clarifying and asking questions. "If you TRULY want perspective, take a look at the first post in this particular thread and then apply my post to it." What I meant by perspective is that multiple websites is just a small, small part of the BIG picture. | ||
| joythruchrist Junior Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
know_won, I don't know who you are, or how long you have been involved in this forum. Clearly, if you were involved with this group for five years (and you made it sound like past tense) you have come to some conclusions regarding the group. Surely, you have seen some of the things as described in the article. One thing you have to take into account is the level of hurt that has been perpetrated by Mike Peters and this legalistic group. That kind of hurt, manipulation, and control is not overcome overnight. You seem to be all too willing to blame Bax for whatever, but not at all willing to speak of problems with Mike. You have, in fact, defended his dishonesty. It has been proven time and again on these boards that Mike lies. I could give a long and drawn out account, but you really need to read the boards. You need to understand that because Indy supporters have come on this board and verbally torn people apart, there is a measure of caution we all take with someone new. There is a need to know where people are 'coming from' when they post. I'm not saying that everyone needs to pick a side, because I realize there are those who are questioning and don't have their minds made up. But keeping your loyalties obscure will get you questioned. Why would it seem so strange to you that we would want to know what you think regarding the group? You see, you don't know Bax. I do. Bax is not pompous or hostile. Bax has been hurt, as so many former members of this group have. And Bax is a godly person who is learning to overcome the damaging effects of legalism and mind control -- and is doing quite well, I might add. Perhaps if you could try to understand that, you might feel compassion? We would love to hear of your experience with this group and what your thoughts are regarding them. Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| etrop New member Username: etrop Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.179.140.12 |
Hi, My only contact with mr Peters was thru a contact I had made in Australia some years ago. I was given the CII address in Indianapolis. I sent an email and recieved some Literature. I cooresponded over about a year. I though I saw a problem of not rightly dividing the Scriptures. When I realized that we were never going to discuss the items I was bringing up I gave up. I was a member of a group that was slowly becoming quite different than what we first believed. After almost fifty years my wife and I just left as we saw more and more the cultic begings being put forth. I have children and grand children that aren't allowed to talk with my wife and myself. I have had people I have known for years exit a building if they see either my wife or myself. Marking, shunning, cutoff or whatever they want to call it, prevents the meeting of families and friends. As you can see alot of what I went and am going through is very close to you and yours. I would like very much to get a photo copy of the article that appeared in the Indianapolis Monthly. Let know the cost and I would glady pay. Just one of those who have put their trust in the Great God and our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ. I am looking forward to the soon appearing of the only one who has the right to rule, The Lord Jesus. Etrop | ||
| joythruchrist Junior Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Welcome, etrop. I am sorry for what you went through in this other group. It does sound similar to the stories I've heard of life with the CII. Your experience in your correspondence with CII (I assume it was mostly with Mike) sounds like so much of what I have heard and seen with their email correspondence. If you bring up valid scriptures and questions, you are often ignored or told that you just don't 'get it'. Or even that you are not 'blood bought'. Although, interestingly enough, though I've been told in this forum that the darkest part of hell is reserved for me, Mike called me 'dear sister' in our recent emails. I don't have any copies of the magazine, but I understand that past copies are available from the Indianapolis Monthly website. Jen | ||
| know_won New member Username: know_won Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.58.67.7 |
Baxter, I understand the concept of brainwashing. But the scripture you're quoting doesn't really address what we've talking about. Jesus isn't giving these new recruits a free pass. In fact, he's not even talking to them. He's talking to the recruiters(scribes, pharisees). Since he's talking to them, he's holding them accountable. If he was talking to the recruits, he would hold them accountable too. About the unfair questions...I wasn't talking about your questions. I was talking about the original 17 that prompted me to respond. You've been on the other thread too, so I'm sure you know which questions I'm talking about. Testing the spirits and the testing I was referring to are not the same. I have lots of stories regarding CII. I'm not comfortable with sharing much right now because I don't like how I've been received on this forum. I've already been lashed out at a few times and I've only been posting for a couple of days. As far as my original comment regarding the multiple websites...if you look at the post that started with thread, you will see what I was replying to. I realize that this forum has more complaints then just multiple websites, but like I stated before...did you expect me to have a response to every topic that's been discussed the past 18+ months? I responded to two threads. That's it. If you want clarification, please ask for it. You saying that you didn't get my point only means that you didn't get my point. You need to let me know if you need more explanation. It seemed to me that perhaps it wasn't that you didn't understand my point, but rather you didn't agree with it. And yes...you did lash out. You weren't looking for clarification, you were looking to correct me and to put me in my place. Re-read your first post to me. | ||
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