| Author | Message | ||
     frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Well, I have all kinds of acusations hurled at me. Thank you Sameo for pointing out my sense of humor, I do try to go at these divisive issues with a side order of laughter even though it may seem harsh at times. I don't hate xtianity, though I do hate the stupidity and bigotry that it so often leads to. I do not hate god, unicorns, jesus, Fred Flintstone or any other fictional character. Now we are on to the next page in Ted Haggard's little drama. Dobson's team of good 'ol boys fixing the guy after he had to go over to the group W bench where they put you if you may not be moral enough to run a maga-church, condemn people to hell, spout bigoted insults at people, and beg for money after being a meth-snorting homosexual. Here is what I really don't get. This is a guy who believed that same-sex attraction is an abomination and that the antidote to that behavior is a good dose of fundamentalist xtianity. Now this is a man whose entire life revolved around fund. xtianity and he was performong this 'immoral' behavior on the side. So they intend to 'cure' him of that habit by giving him a bigger dose of fundieness. I mean, come on, the guy was swimming in it. How fundie can a person possibly get? What I really wonder about is, are there people out there who are so immersed in this belief system that they actually fail to see the insanity of this? It's mind-boggling. Then I look at the brief and evasive descriptions of the Dobson team's 'restoration' proccess that is provided by the news. Looks really creepy and sadistic. As much as I think Hagg is a piece of crap I could not wish that kind of torture on anyone. Actually these ex-gay scams have been proven to be very damaging to people. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 891 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
frankenchrist: welcome to the Maranatha/EN board. I've read some of your posts and while I certainly don't agree with everything you say, I respect your right to your opinion. But, hey, I'm a former Christian who converted to Judaism, so there are a number of posters here who would probably put your chances at entering the pearly gates way above mine. Keep posting. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1818 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
I promise never to refer to your jewish-ness or those funny looking bolts sticking out of franky's neck.  | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Hi LL, I'm not sure why converting to Judaism, the mother religion of xtianity would make you worse than someone who doesn't believe in any supernatural entities at all. Why is that worse? I would think that you and I would be equally condemned. Or are there different levels of hell? What level of badness is a non-believer, but otherwise moral guy? As I understand it to blaspheme the hokey spirit is the one thing that even Jesus will not forgive. So everyone is fair game for heaven as long as the consider Jesus to be the blah, blah, blah -- unless they blaspheme the holy spit. Then they have no chance of entering the place where they put you if you are a true believer in the blah, blah, blah. So, since I have no desire to go to heaven -- I blaspheme the hokey spit every day. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 892 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
franken: methinks you have a religious background, no? Well, if you believe that Jesus Christ is the only way, I would be crap outta luck. And, yes, there are some New Testament scriptures that say something like "if you know the truth and reject the truth it's worse than never knowing" etc, which may mean that there are different levels of hell, which would mean that you may be roasting your Smores a floor or two above me. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 893 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
matt: You know I don't mind if you refer to my Jewishness. You've never been anything but kind. Now, regarding the bolts in FC's neck - I feel a kinship, having had nuts and bolts in my leg. Besides, wouldn't he fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act? | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1820 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
haha I am being sarcastic, I have had plenty of fun talking about you having a show with Jackie Mason. Yea, poor old Frankie, the real one in Mel Brooks movie, he got an "Abby- Normal" brain. I think he would qualify. | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Religious background -- not really. Parents were Unitarians, I went to church seldom and never really internalized it. The Unitarian-Universalist is like 'religion-lite' or, as it has been described, "a place for intellectuals to play church." I have been doing some independent study, ex-cult members fascinate me. Most of what I know about the Bible comes from ex-christians. I am aware of that bit about those who reject the truth after having it. I love s'mores. Personally, I find that ex-members of a group tend to have a more accurate picture than members (not always). My only disablities are in my left hand - limited movement and my hearing is a bit dull. Neither is enough to qualify as disabled. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 896 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
matt: Young Frankenstein is one of my favorite movies. Love Mel Brooks anything and Monty Python anything. Saw a movie yesterday that was hilarious - Hebrew Hammer. Hebrew Hammer is like a Jewish Shaft and he hangs out in the "chood." Gotta find a copy because it may join National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation as one of my family holiday movies. Frank: sorry to hear about your hand. Bummer. I have a slightly gimp right leg. No fun. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 897 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
I don't mind if anyone pokes fun at me for being Jewish, and I really don't mind if anyone thinks I'm going to hell. The only thing I really mind is someone telling me I don't have the right to go to hell if I want to.  | ||
| wildwood_ Intermediate Member Username: wildwood_ Post Number: 328 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.243.114.35 |
I don't want to poke fun at you for being Jewish! I want you to hang around long enough to learn of your worship and the reverence of the Torah. And I'd like to hear how your Father is doing these days...comfortable as possible I hope & how you are with the stress. I've been praying. Although, from time to time, would it be all right if I said.."Lablady.I'd really prefer for you not to go to Hell? It's Hot There...Worse than Kentucky in August I hear"...feel free to tell me to go there for doing so! I will support fully your right to go....although there's something oddly wrong with the whole paragraph...almost like assisting someone in an unhealthy act...except you feel obviously that your health is being restored...so I'll try to leave my nose out of it and let the Lord Love You as He sees you. We need COFFEE, A Table, and Pastries so we can discuss these issues like Ladies; Barring that...I have no objection to going to a bar, picking up Sameo on the way and discussing life there. Although some sober person must drive me home! Hmmm, Although a review of this thread...having a "Frankencrist" or a "MadHatter" as a designated driver seems a bit...like it would be an interesting road trip.... Right, I'll call the National Guard.  | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 252 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Hi lablady2, We both agree that cult leaders are not real Christians, but why don't you believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Why don't you believe that Jesus Christ died for yours and my sins so we could be forgiven? Why don't you believe that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life? Finally why don't you want to go to heaven? Are you afraid of finding your ex-Maranatha leaders there and see then forcing you to have more deliverance sessions? I would not worry about that lablady I believe that unrepentant pharisees will be the last ones to enter the kingdom of heaven. Remember that I will continue to pray for you and I want the best for you. I need prayers as well! Blessings pilgrim | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 253 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Lablady, When I said that, I believe that unrepentant pharisees will be the last ones to enter the kingdom of heaven, I meant that is it is easier for anyone else to repent and enter the kingdom of heaven by grace than for a pharisee to repent and enter God's kingdom. Lablady, I just pray that we can still be friends after my latest message.  | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 900 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Pilgrim, I appreciate your concern and I mean that. The reasons why I chose to convert to Judaism are far too numerous to discuss on this forum. I have a lot of respect for true Christianity and true Christians but, after many tears and much struggle, I found that I am better able to live and express my faith in a different way. Of course we can be friends! I have lots of friends from lots of different backgrounds. The only thing I can't tolerate is intolerance, i.e. stating that I don't have a right to believe as I believe. Wild: KY is perfect training ground for hell. Add in a divorce and raising a few teenagers. Watch for my new book: "Hell for Dummies." | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1822 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
frankie: I have been doing some independent study, ex-cult members fascinate me. Most of what I know about the Bible comes from ex-christians. You know, frankie, I gave you a pass for your tirades against people of faith because I thought you were probably one who had been burned by the religion of man, but the above statement changes everything. Independent study..yeah right, while you pour salt in people's wounds. I now see you as a small pathetic creature who seems to enjoy beating up on people who have been wounded. What a cowardly bully. Your silly plays on words never bothered me, as I have come to grips with my faith long ago, (as literary agents, things like "hokey bible" are rather stupid and childish BTW) You religion of secular humanism worships man. Your cruelty to people of faith, who despite the fact that they have been burned by religion continue to seek the Creator, makes me conclude that you don't even understand the basic need to be kind to others. Jesus asked an all important question that we all must answer: "Who do you say that I am?" We do have this in common frankie, we have both answered this question with different conclusions. My conclusion tells me you are a fool, as the fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." Neither Haggard, Maranatha, EN, or YOU affect my faith in God. Enjoy your cruel game, even a decent humanist wouldn't do what you are doing. } | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 902 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Interesting post, Matt. I, too, thought Frank was someone who had probably been burned/hurt by some religious experience. Frank, I started to suggest earlier that you at least read the New Testament (then I got carried away tickling krems on another thread). If I were going to make an argument for or against anything, I would go to the source for my information, not to Christians, and particularly not to Christians who are in a period of recovery from hurt and disappointment. I've made this suggestion to fellow Jews who ask about scriptures or ideas they think are in the NT: read it for yourself. As far as a belief in God, I believe with all my heart. Following my cult experience, I wasn't sure I did believe anymore. It wasn't until I got into college and starting studying anatomy and physiology that my belief was confirmed. I've kept my old A&P book - it was the "bible" God used to melt my heart. Every breath we take is a miracle. However, I certainly can't legislate belief for anyone else; that's a journey each individual has to make. I personally believe you must be on that journey. Why else would you be hanging out here when there are so many other places to hang that have nothing to do with the God you say you don't believe in? My son struggles with belief in God (although it doesn't sound as though you are struggling) and my only advice to him is to remain open. It is God's inclination to find us because He loves us so much. | ||
| mdillon Advanced Member Username: mdillon Post Number: 867 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.4.125.11 |
I found that I am better able to live and express my faith in a different way. lablady you were cast out of factnet but you have come back seven times worse or better depending which side of tolerance one is on. i would request in your new book that you would leave me an appendix, I promise, no pictures of riceypoo. dilly | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1823 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
LL: "Why else would you be hanging out here when there are so many other places to hang that have nothing to do with the God you say you don't believe in?" I would hope he was on a journey also LL, but his caustic words lead me to another conclusion. He was the kid who liked to poke frogs with pointed sticks to watch them suffer. My question also, what is the world would someone who has no historic commonality doing here? Must be a lonely life frank. Oh I forgot, we are a case study. How creepy. | ||
| miltietoast Senior Member Username: miltietoast Post Number: 1042 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 170.215.100.246 |
hmmm | ||
| robert_unknown Advanced Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 904 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
... i thought we all agreed on ignoring FrankenStalin? | ||
| sameo Advanced Member Username: sameo Post Number: 518 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 74.140.253.49 |
I find it interesting that Lab speaks more truth and see's the heart of things more clearly than those who have been unkind to her here for her religious beliefs. She reminds me more of the Jesus I believe in-how is that possible? ;-) Franky, 'the face only a mother can love...' and i do. You are being a little brat..hehe badd franky. But when you were posting about your parents and you growing up in the Unitarian church, etc. I saw a glimpse of you. I appreciate you telling us some personal stuff about yourself. I guess I'll find myself in hell too since befriending the anti-christ and a jew. I'll be on the lowest level for sure...since I'm a christian and I know better. But I freakin' love s'mores. I'm hoping for some doughboy's on a stick too, dilly--and if I'm really lucky we'll have pigs in a blanket. I am not advocating anyone being deliberately cruel to people. I didn't see frank begin to be directly cruel to people on the post until they attacked him. HE WAS however cruel towards Haggard, and other leaders. That showed me he didn't approve of those guys taking advantage of the people under their leadership. But that's just how I saw it....i could be very deceived. But for some reason...unbeknownst to me, I don't see franky as the real threat. Again, I've grown accustomed to being around sharp tongued kids...maybe I'm immuned to it? or have learned to see past it? god help me, but i still like franky. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 905 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
matt: Frank may be the mirror image of Moseley. Factnet draws weirdos like a magnet, me included in that bunch. Sometimes people like to poke with sticks to be hurtful, sometimes they like to poke with sticks to test a response, to see if people are what they say they are. In either case, it's a poor form of communication, and I'm not always up for a test, either. Life is test enough on most days. I don't know where Frank is coming from, so I can't really draw a conclusion... yet. To be honest, he sounds like me the first year after I left MCM. I lived to inflict hurt as I had been hurt, and if this board had existed then, I would have been banned for life. Just a couple of things I know, Frank: if you dish it out, be prepared to take it (yeah, even from me. The Christians will probably cut you more slack, I promise. Jews don't believe in turning the other cheek). And, Frank, God likes a challenge. Be keerful - He may turn you into a project. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 906 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Sameo, your goodness is making me verklempt. Maybe it's a mother thing. My kids did the most outrageous things in their teens, but when I went to the police station to bail them out (hehe), I would still see a four year old with a Kool Aid moustache. Doesn't mean I didn't lower the boom, but I never gave up. Paid off. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1825 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.2 |
To all: I was the first to advocate ignoring this person, however, patronizing folks because he finds ex cult members "fascinating" results in a reaction from me...so he gets a pass on slamming everything that is good to me? Don't think so. Why is it any different than others slamming LL for her faith; we were wrong not to call bullspit on that, so I am calling it now. And I have had my say, so goodbye. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 907 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
matt: I guess the one difference I see with Frank is that he doesn't claim to be a Christian, a Jew or a person of faith. If anything, he's made it very clear that he isn't those things. So, I don't find his behavior inconsistent with his beliefs or lack thereof. I have more trouble with people who claim to have a certain set of beliefs that call for a certain set of behaviors but they don't live by them while expecting everyone else to. For me, that doesn't mean you have to tolerate Frank's insensitivity or give him a pass. I'm not offended if you respond to him out of the sincerity of your heart. I think anyone who has been here very long knows how good your heart is. I hope I haven't offended you, matt, in any way. That wasn't my intention and that would make me sad. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 254 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
lablady2, You wrote, I promise. Jews don't believe in turning the other cheek. Now I understand why you did become a jew. You want to be absolutely sure that your ex-Maranatha leaders are not able to hurt your other chick as well!!!  Did you really become a jew? I think that you still have a christian heart. You also said, God likes a challenge. Be keerful - He may turn you into a project. And... you might become a lovely messianic jew and maybe you already are one!  Thank you for your contribution to this board. Blessings pilgrim | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 909 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
lablady you were cast out of factnet but you have come back seven times worse or better depending which side of tolerance one is on. Seven times worse no matter which side of the argument you take. That's what a little rest and a steroid shot will do for ya. | ||
| mdillon Advanced Member Username: mdillon Post Number: 869 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.4.125.11 |
So, I don't find his behavior inconsistent with his beliefs or lack thereof labby has a point, mattie, i'm just sayin....hey, franky doin a case study on us? mattie, think about it, we gotta be blowin' the usual stats to pieces. maybe sameo just can't pass up a stray dog. dilly | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 910 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
pilgrim: You are too funny! I am God's little lifelong project. Yes, I really did become a Jew (two years of study, 7 months of bimontly 200 mile trips to see a rabbi, a meeting with a beit din, topped off with a trip to the mikveh). I think (I hope and I pray) that the "Christian" heart that you see is the heart that those who love God have in common. Maybe that's why I don't seem so different. I see a lot of people here who love God and they aren't Jews. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1826 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
LL, neither you nor anyone else has offended me. Frankly, frankie doesn't offend me. It is the souls who are in here that have tender hearts, those still smarting from the cruelty of man made religion who I am concerned for, real men and women who have not abandoned their love for God despite the hurt they have endured. I think some of us old timers might have forgotten the hurts from those early years... My redneck side would like to smack this sumbitch into next week; dilly is right, he would definitely have a new chapter for his case study after an hour with me. And don't give me any sheeot about "xtian love" franky, I am what you call a calloused believer. Matt the redneck (thank God he is under control, sorta) would whip your azz and ask for forgiveness later. Here's an idea, go take your enlightened ideas to some islamo-facist web site with your silly-azz plays on words and see how fast they find your ISP address and hang your pseudo-intellectual buttocks from a bridge. Yea, I'm pizzed. | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Was it something I wrote? | ||
| frankenchrist Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.177 |
Funny thing is Matt, I'm a bit of a redneck myself. You and I should get together and go hunting. I don't toe the liberal line completely. Gun control is one of the things that I can't abide with. (you can beat someone to death with a chair -- should we have 'chair-control' too?) I believe in the rights of the individual and disdain collectivism. I guess that's the problem I have with religious organizations. I would agree that Muslims are the most narrow-minded, bigoted, violent groups out there. But all in all, scince is a way of explaining things, not mythology, regardless of what the mythology is. There is no such thing as god, that is a fact, not an opinion. I don't know if Jesus was real or fictional but I suspect that he was just made up. Evolution is a scientific fact, creationism or ID are loony. People have the right to reproduce or not that is not something that can be legislated. The rapture, ot the second comming is never going to happen, that is a fact, not an opinion. The Bible may contain some historical accounts but overall it is fiction -- another fact. Belief in god is not necessary for a moral life -- fact. I'm kinda like Charlie Daniels; People say I'm no-good, And crazy as a loon. I get stoned in the morning, I get drunk in the afternoon. Kinda like my old blue tick hound, I like to lay around in the shade, An', I ain't got no money, But I damn sure got it made. 'Cos I ain't askin' nobody for nothin', If I can't get it on my own. If you don't like the way I'm livin', You just leave this long-haired country boy alone. Preacher man talkin' on the TV, He's a-puttin' down the rock 'n' roll. He wants me to send a donation,'Cos he's worried about my soul. He said: "Jesus walked on the water,"And I know that is true, But sometimes I think that preacher man, Would like to do a little walkin', too. But I ain't askin' nobody for nothin', If I can't get it on my own. You don't like the way I'm livin', You just leave this long-haired country boy alone. A poor girl wants to marry, And a rich girl wants to flirt. A rich man goes to college,And a poor man goes to work. A drunkard wants another drink of wine,And a politician wants a vote. I don't want much of nothin' at all,But I will take another toke. 'Cos I ain't askin' nobody for nothin',If I can't get it on my own. If you don't like the way I'm livin', You just leave this long-haired country boy alone. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 255 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Franken, You wrote: The rapture, ot the second comming is never going to happen. I believe that Jesus Christ will come back but not before the tribulation. He will come back near the end or at the end of the tribulation. Before Jesus comes back the frankenchrist(antichrist) will come. Everyone will be forced to have a mark( perhaps a microchip implanted)in the right hand or forehead in order to be able to buy or sell. Look at the following website: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61357,00.html Many Christians are not even aware that the technology is there to fulfill this prophesy. They wrongly believe in the pretribulation rapture. i.e they think that they will be taken up before the antichrist comes and before the tribulation. They think that the Mark of the Beast will only affect the rebellious people who are left behind after the rapture. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1828 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
I'm kinda like Charlie Daniels You just leave this long-haired country boy alone. If you were anything like the long haired country boy, you would not be drawing all this attention to yourself. That boy wants to be left alone, you crave attention, and have to go find a web site with vulnerable people on it and insult them. You and I would not be hunting together. My folk's farm is God's country, and I wouldn't want to pollute it with your sorry but-tocks. | ||
| wildwood_ Intermediate Member Username: wildwood_ Post Number: 329 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.243.114.35 |
Frankencrist, you said:"There is no such thing as god, that is a fact, not an opinion. I don't know if Jesus was real or fictional but I suspect that he was just made up." Me: ! LOL, Well...when you meet Him, you'll have to tell Him that...If you aren't too busy being happy to have found out you were wrong. I'm hoping for a meeting this side of Eternity for you...yes, I know you think I'm a bit looney,sadly deceived, etc...no matter... There's an old country hymn that says it rather well for my heart
I will continue to pray for you and not "at" you...although you definitely try to provoke the "at you"...starting with your name choice...a definite conversation starter...so you must want a dialog with Believers...possibly for lab experiments  ...So, I usually just pray & read on because I do believe you believe what you say...and words change no one--Just tangled threads if not sown or sewn with purpose...I believe the Love of God does change people...even you, even me. But, Charlie Daniels...and Red Neck...hmmm, you may not be exactly like Charlie Daniels...but I bet he'd like to have a talk with you,too. He might even give you tickets for a front row seat when his band starts this song he wrote...I hope you'd go...
And if by chance, Charlie asks you to go hunting...before you agree...you might want to make sure he hasn't seen all your posts... He may want clarification and then place you in a situation that results in edification... Then again, just go, have a nice trip; post when you get back and let us know how it all went...maybe I'll pray for Charlie, too. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1829 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
You are much nicer than me WW, Sameo, LL, et al. But you are Momma's. Me and Charlie we ain't so sweet. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 532 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.60.220 |
Matt I'm a momma, and I am holding my tongue "FOR now" on this one. | ||
| miltietoast Senior Member Username: miltietoast Post Number: 1044 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.159.19.127 |
gun control is using both hands | ||
| wildwood_ Intermediate Member Username: wildwood_ Post Number: 330 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.243.114.35 |
Hey Hatter...I think your Momma raised you well! But You are Your Daddy's Son, too! I'm sure Heavenly & Earthly both proudly say "That's My Boy! Possible quote from George Orwell or a mix of Kipling & Orwell's thinking: And an absolute quote from something called the Mudville Gazette: "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I'm sleeping a lot better since stumbling onto the board and meeting a rather strange, unlikely but definitely gallant loving Southern Knights... (although the concept is "Universal" and not exclusively "Regional" and there are male & female "Knights"). You know darn well if you saw Frankencrist on the side of the road with a flat tire...you'd at least call a tow truck; If you found him with an accidental arrow wound during deer season...you'd drag him on out of the woods, telling him no big deal all the way (and not even charge for it)...But if hurtful words began to fly again towards the Sheep (and I am such a fuzzy headed lamb sometimes myself) You'd be & Post...EXACTLY as you have! Wonderfully. And that dear Brother in the Lord, is standing up for Jesus & being a Man of God. We Thank You! I bid "Aloha" to this thread which actually means both Hello & Good-bye "Hugs"....I'm leaning towards the "Good-Bye"...but the wind changes...and if a Kona wind blows again.... | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1833 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
Heck, bottom line, I would probably teach ol frankie how to put a hole in a hole in a hole in the target with my .357 Smith and Wesson. Pop had us shootin' like the Clampetts at puberty. Call a tow truck? I'd just change the tire. Got every tool and trinket known to man in the tool box in my truck. See frankie, I am really a decent xtian. | ||
| miltietoast Senior Member Username: miltietoast Post Number: 1045 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.159.19.127 |
There is no such thing as god, that is a fact, not an opinion frankie are you saying that absolutely? Frankie our brains evolved faster than we use them(excess capacity)You should try using yours. It would make your momma (sameo) happy. Evolution of living things is biologically impossible--now there is an interesting FACT.As we continue to unlock layers of the "simple cell"LMAO we see the next layer is more complex than the last. Promease (a cell spellchecker does not allow a cell to do anything but reproduce itself---bummer info for evolutionists--also hard to find definition of promease in most biology books.Why do these psuedo intellectual's lie against the truth and try to suppress truth?Life is programmed to reproduce itself and only itself. Sometimes even promease makes a mistake called a mutation this is always (FACT) caused by missing info in the cell or damaged info, never new information to evolve. You are like the little flea on the big dog screaming ,"It is a fact. there is no dog!" Open your eyes and brains,God is too big for your little dishonest world. Fortunate for you God does not wear a flea collar but he may get the hankerin to scratch! | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 1834 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.165.3 |
You are like the little flea on the big dog screaming ,"It is a fact. there is no dog!" Darn it Miltie, this was good. I have a friend who is a dyslexic atheist who is convinced that there is no Dog. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1437 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.159.191 |
O.K since I have been alluded to hear multiple times? I will respond (yeah I know I am not all that important, blah, blah, blah). First off I respect freedom of choice but if the wrong choice is made don't expect me to be happy about it even if it does not effect me directly. Hey it is in the genes I am sensitive and emotional but do a very good job hiding it in the real world. This board was partially created to talk about MCM/MSI/EN and discuss stuff, particularly the idea of reform or destroy? It is also a place to vent. The most important question that this whole movement revolves around is what do we do with this man called Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If your a 14 year old kid and you mock Jesus? water off a ducks back but if you know him a long time and are happy to tell him syonara? Well things change then. If someone does that and that is fine? - you can kiss this board from ever reaching anyone in EN and many of the guys running this thing who are former Maranatha leaders. That is kind of the way it is and most of you here know it. Talk about stuff like that and I will transform from a mild manner slacker into a twitching Bob Martin clone, God bless you BM. I apologize for being a jerk at times but it is what it is I guess I am not as spritually accepting of somethings and I don't aspire to be that way. Frank can talk about evolution all day long, almost all mutations kill, genetic mistakes are usually weeded out during the mating process. A guppy you can buy at a store for a dime is 1000 times more complicated then Franks computer and the power system and the power plants and infrastructure that was made by intelligent men that allows Frank to post. Computer networks are a joke compared to the smallest creatures out there. And this thing is suppose to have been assembled by random chance? Hey let me take your car a part and put it in a BIG box and shake it for 10000000000000 trillion years and see if it puts itself back together again. mdillon I will not be tolerant of Frank referring to the Holy Spirit as the Hokey Spirit. Frank refers to the Holy Spirit in this way because he has never had a visitation from him. Frank came from a spiritually dead background. Why don't we all pray that he has a visitation and that the Holy Spirit will forgive him because he does not know what he does. Ohh and Matt Hatter and friends you did not really call me out on anything, if you remember it was a bar fight and I told all of you, come on over. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1439 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
Ofcourse then you smart alecks would say, we did kick your blank. That may be true but lets keep the records accurate on these great exploits. We will start off small, next thing you know I will be creating planets bigger then Nasso, your best childhood bud.  | ||
| robert_unknown Advanced Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 905 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
"There is no such thing as god, that is a fact, not an opinion." come on frankobollo. this statement is a contradiction in itself. how can you say it is a fact? Gods nature is transcendent, and science cannot proof his beeing or not beeing. so it remains a philosophical question and not a scientifical question. science was never ment to proof/ unproof God or other spiritual things. the aim of science always was and is to proof nature/ creation. so it remains a philosophical question. to come from a scientifical point of view and say "there is no God" is bullshit. but i guess you know this all, and say what you say to provoke a reaction here. | ||
| robert_unknown Advanced Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 906 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
not to forget that modern science is also only based on philosophical foundations. materialism is an unproofen philosophy, and not a "fact"... | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1440 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
You know Phil Bonasso is the gasoline that keeps this baby burning. A gift that keep giving and giving. Fuel for the fire. I can't imagine why he would not post here?  I would be all over this place rebuking everybody. Either he is a super wuss or that EN paycheck is just to damn awesome. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1441 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
Steve Murrell don't fire him. | ||
| robert_unknown Advanced Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 907 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
perhaps he is posting here, and we dont recognize him ... | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1442 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
Who? Murrell or Bonasso You know if Bonasso is not lurking here and reading what his childhood friends are posting? He is a super man I could not do it. Hey Phil I will give you a few bucks, sign me up for a planet with water and a dozen JIA servant girls, an improved model that will work harder. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 911 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
40/40 said: If your a 14 year old kid and you mock Jesus? water off a ducks back but if you know him a long time and are happy to tell him syonara? Well things change then. If someone does that and that is fine? - you can kiss this board from ever reaching anyone in EN and many of the guys running this thing who are former Maranatha leaders. 40/40: In several posts now you have alluded to the fact that my conversion to Judaism and rejecting “the J man”, as you have referred to your Lord and Savior, is damaging to those Christians who come to Factnet looking for healing and restoration. Consider this: any damage that my conversion might do pales in comparison to the hurt and abuse these people have received within their own faith community. I suggest you spend your time and energy being angry with and trying to correct the damage being done by the likes of Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Weiner & Company, Haggard, Phil Bonasso and the many pastors from EN who are referred to here constantly. When you’ve whipped that little problem into shape, then maybe you can blame the little Jewish grandmother for all the ways in which she has led the flock astray. Until then, stop trying to use me as a scapegoat for the disillusionment that some may feel regarding their own spiritual experience. | ||
| miltietoast Senior Member Username: miltietoast Post Number: 1047 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.159.19.127 |
frankenfool said People have the right to reproduce or not that is not something that can be legislated. And surprise they reproduce the same kind What are we as humans evolving into? Frankie you are factually challenged or handicapped -must be a mutation I wish I had a grain of your incredible faith,I could cast mountains in the sea | ||
| miltietoast Senior Member Username: miltietoast Post Number: 1048 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.159.19.127 |
frankenfool said Well, I have all kinds of acusations hurled at me. Poor innocent lamb | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 536 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.69.170 |
Perhaps this person has a demonic stronghold. Perhaps there is truly hope if he is not past the point of no return with the blasphemy. I see Satan when I read about someone boasting about Blaspheming Christ, and the HOLY SPIRIT. I won't communicate with demons. Jesus just commanded them to GO. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.69.170 |
In Jesus' Name. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 538 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.69.170 |
If you want a revelation of heaven and hell, (NO, I haven't read each book yet, so while I can not comment specifically on them, I can at least say by the power and presence of the Holy Spirit within me that these are timely, and a good read, from the excerpts..and several of my family members have them..) A Divine Revelation of Heaven A Divine Revelation of Hell I'll try to find links. Author, Mary K. Baxter (Message edited by wisedove on November 16, 2006) | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 539 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.69.170 |
http://www.nowsthetime.org/revelation.html1` this is a link to a site where you can listen to this lady's testimony. She knows she will get persecution from her testimony. Nevertheless, lives are being changes with her divine revelation of Hell and Heaven. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 540 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.69.170 |
I guess the only thing I can do besides rebuke satan in Jesus' name is pray for those who seem to think Hell is a better alternative than Heaven for all of eternity. I pray that the deception be loosed off of your mind, in Jesus' Name. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1445 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
lab I am afraid of you, you are one tough little jewish grandmaul. Look up maul. Hey if folks talk about me in code I may respond. I am feeling GUUUUUUUUDDD today. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1446 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
I really like the term J man. I think Jesus likes it too. It is edgy and modern but old time too. Yeah I picked the term up from mockers but look at it this way. Jesus is always calling himself the son of Man. In my retarded logic Jesus gets to call himself MAN and gets to claim an entire letter of the alphabet. J-2 gotta give up the J hon. J Menn? see that is so cool. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 912 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Main Entry: 1maul Pronunciation: 'mol Function: noun Etymology: Middle English malle mace, maul, from Anglo-French mail, from Latin malleus; akin to Old Church Slavic mlatu hammer, Latin molere to grind -- more at MEAL : a heavy often wooden-headed hammer used especially for driving wedges; also : a tool like a sledgehammer with one wedge-shaped end that is used to split wood. I'll take that as a compliment. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1447 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.182.75.115 |
Yep unless your on the receiving end. Peace not pieces. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 913 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
"I guess the only thing I can do besides rebuke satan in Jesus' name is pray for those who seem to think Hell is a better alternative than Heaven for all of eternity. I pray that the deception be loosed off of your mind, in Jesus' Name." I wouldn't care to eat lunch with about 30% of the people I know who insist they are going to heaven, so I can't imagine wanting to spend an eternity with them. Let's not blame that on demon possession, satanic influence, or the pull of the moon. My choice, plain and simple. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 543 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
LL, just because someone insists they are going to heaven does not mean they will. It is the Father's will that none should perish, but come to repentance and only believe in His Son, and what He did for them, and what provision that He gives to those who believe. I WILL blame someone that outright boasts of blaspheming the Holy Spirit as someone under satanic influence. No apologies there. God created all people, and knew EACH one of us before we were even in our mother's womb. That Hebrew word means
He knew our destiny, created us with a purpose, and had a plan for our life. I can almost guarantee that His plan for Frankie and any others was not for them to blaspheme His Holy Spirit, and commit the only sin that's not pardonable. I can only almost imagine He did not create any of us in our mother's womb to one day reject Him and His Son. I backslid several times in my life. I totally lived in SIN knowingly and without remorse for years after I felt like my life was a lie. God in His great grace and mercy wooed me back unto Himself. I praise HIM for that. I cannot live without Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God. I worship Jesus for what He did for me. If I were the only person alive, He would have taken the beatings on His back and the crown of thorns in His head and the nails in His hands and feet and the sword in His flesh JUST for me. I praise the God of CREATION for being a loving FATHER when our earthly father's disappoint, or when our husbands disappoint, Jesus is our heavenly groom, who never disappoints. He desires that ALL would come to repentance, and be saved. I believe the rapture will take place in my life time, and just like Noah had mockers as he preached the same word for 120 years as he built that boat, I and other's will have mockers as we look for His return which could be very soon, looking at the state of the world today and the many signs pointing to this and leading to this. Praise God that the great revival will more than likely take place after the rapture, and those who are presently mocking will get the choice to take the mark of the beast on their heads or hands, or be martyred for their belief in God, the one and only true God, Lord of Heaven and earth. When Jesus comes back and sets His feet on the mount of Olives and puts an end to the war, and brings true peace to the earth, and begins to rule and reign here for 1000 years, I look forward to having my part in that with Him. Do You? (Generally speaking YOU, not any particular person.) (Message edited by wisedove on November 16, 2006) | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 544 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
For those who might be interested, there is a man in power and position named Javier Solana (http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/) who could hold the place of power that the anti christ will come from. Google Recommendation 666, and see what you come up with. He is the most powerful man in the EU, and the WEU, and has already devised a peace plan that He will be presenting to Israel in Jan. of 2007 at a meeting that only takes place every 7 years. Hmm.If this is THE PEACE TREATY spoken of in God's Word, look up into the EASTERN SKY, because whether you believe God's Word is true or not, Jesus is coming back. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 545 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Here's some references to Witchcraft, demonic strongholds: Title: Encyclopedia of Bible Facts Edition: First Copyright: Copyright © 2004 John Hunt Publishing Ltd., UK. Text: © 2004 Mark Water. All rights reserved. Except for brief quotations in critical articles or reviews, no part of this book may be reproduced in any manner without prior written permission from the publishers. The rights of Mark Water as author have been asserted in accordance with the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 2005, QuickVerse. All rights reserved. Permission to Quote: The Bible’s teaching in summary “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry … ” 1 Samuel 15:23 NAS “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft … ” 1 Samuel 15:23 Defining witchcraft Witchcraft is wanting to have spiritual power without submitting to God. Witchcraft is a desire to be a spiritual free agent without submission to God and without regard for the Bible’s teaching. The dynamics of witchcraft “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire … When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!” John 8:44, 45 NIV. All supernatural power comes, ultimately, from either God or Satan. Satan empowers those who believe a lie. Witchcraft supports Satan’s lies. So anyone who opens himself or herself to them and then: • mixes certain ingredients in a drink • eats special herbs • arranges candles in a certain configuration • stares into a crystal ball • turns over Tarot cards • “reads” the stars • draws certain symbols will encourage evil spiritual forces to come into play. But according to James 3:15 such so called “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 546 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
cont. Rebellion against God ranks as the greatest sin we can commit. Divination and witchcraft are often linked to each other in the teaching of the Bible. “For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you” 1 Samuel 15:23 NIV. Witchcraft and God’s followers Witchcraft should never be allowed any foothold within the Christian church. “Let no one be found among you … who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or cast spells, or who is a medium or spiritist.” Deuteronomy 18:10, 11 NIV. “For those nations, which you will dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.” Deuteronomy 18:14 NAS. The lure of sorcery should never be underestimated. “Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, ‘This man is the divine power known as the Great Power.’ They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic.” Acts 8:9–11 NIV. Fighting the lies God’s followers, in Bible times, as today, have to expose, condemn and root out all kinds of witchcraft. In addition to those slain in battle, the Israelites had put to the sword Balaam son of Beor, who practiced divination. Joshua 13:22 NIV. “He … practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, provoking him to anger” 2 Chronicles 33:6 NIV. “Then the Lord said to me, ‘The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusions of their own minds.’” Jeremiah 14:14 NIV. “So do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums, or your sorcerers … Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.” Jeremiah 27:9, 10 NIV. We must be repentant Like any other sinful activity Christians should repent if they have ever dabbled in or been deeply involved in witchcraft. One example of this is recorded in Acts. “Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver” Acts 19:19. | ||
| j2theperson Advanced Member Username: j2theperson Post Number: 524 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.208.35.25 |
I don't want this to sound like an attack against you, because it's not; however, I don't think it's quite accurate to compare pre-trib rapture believers and the response they receive to Noah and the response he received. Noah was given a direct and specific word from God to build an ark because God was going to flood the earth within a certain ammount of time. The book of Revelation, on the other hand, gives no timeframe and presents a message that is open to a variety of interpretations. In general, it seems to me that people who believe in a tribulation in general and specifically in a pre-trib rapture are mocked not for those beliefs but for their regular and always wrong date setting. For thousands of years, various Christians have claimed "Christ is coming back at such and such a time" or "The rapture is going to occur at this date" or "The tribulation is going to take place over these years" and for thousands of years those predictions have all been proven false. Noah, on the other hand, spent 120 years preaching and warning people of the coming flood, and, when he finished the ark, the flood came. The only reason it is possible for us to fault his mockers is because his prophecy was true. On the other hand, the main reason why tribulation/rapture theorists are mocked is because to this date their prophecies have always been false.
I will bet you anything in the world that the Tribulation is not going to begin in 2007, and that the world will still exist 20 years from now. | ||
| formermaranathapastor Intermediate Member Username: formermaranathapastor Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.37.153.44 |
Ahem......... Wisedove said: "So anyone who opens himself or herself to them and then:" • mixes certain ingredients in a drink Is mixing cocoa and coffee OK? • eats special herbs Parsley, Rosemary, Thyme, are these OK? • arranges candles in a certain configuration Gee, I love candles. How do I check the configuration? • stares into a crystal ball You mean my TV? I have to get rid of that? • turns over Tarot cards Do you mean just touch them? Or just not live my life by them. • “reads” the stars The stars sure are pretty at night here in NM • draws certain symbols I just luv to doodle will encourage evil spiritual forces to come into play. You mean the republicans???? But according to James 3:15 such so called “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. Oh please, I have heard more drivel and mean spirited talk from Christians than from secular folk. This type of fanaticism is very exclusionary and unloving. It is: do it my way or burn in Hell. My how it makes me want to run the other way. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 547 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
I shared these things because of the blasphemy that has taken place on this thread, as well as other threads, and I am referencing these things because I believe for someone to outright enjoy saying they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and that they choose to go to hell, well, this was for them. FMP, forgive me, but it is not "do it my way, or burn in Hell." It depends on whose way you are talking about. My (dove?) or My (Jesus). If it is the latter, yes, perhaps. I didn't write The Word Of God, I only choose to believe it. I rather enjoyed your post, btw. Made me giggle. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 548 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
J2, You make good points about the time of Noah vs. our time now. However, God promises a crown to those who eagerly look for His return. It might be the only crown I get, but at least I will have one to lay at His feet. I by no means am trying to put a date on the rapture. I believe the Word to be true in that no one knows the day or time. However, the Word does say that this generation who sees certain signs will not pass away but will be caught up to be with Him in the clouds. There are signs today that our generation is seeing that no other generation can say, and all point to a return sometime in our lifetime. I am a fool if I think "sometime in my lifetime" must only mean 50+ years from now. It could mean 50 minutes from now, for all I know. I want to be like the wise virgins, who were ready and prepared when the bridegroom came. (Matt. 25) Not the foolish virgins who begged for oil for their lamps and it was too late for them. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 549 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Here is a study on the Last Days Title: Explorer’s Bible Study: New Testament Epistles & Revelation, Workbook Edition: First Copyright: Copyright © 1978, 1988 N.E. Constance Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1999, Parsons Technology, Inc. Permission to Quote: In compliance with copyright restrictions, no portion of these materials may be reproduced without written permission of the publisher. IV. The Coming Change in the Last Days (2 Timothy 3:1-17) A. Characteristic of the Evil in the Last Days (2 Timothy 3:1-9) Through the Spirit of God, Paul reveals what shall come in the last days. It is descriptive of the moral qualities of professing Christians who have a form of godliness: they are outwardly religious, go to church, make some profession to a creed, but they deny the power thereof. They are (1) lovers of themselves: they live for themselves and walk in the flesh; (2) lovers of money: greed controls their activity; they live in pleasure as they are; (3) lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. We certainly live in the midst of these conditions today. Evil teachers began in apostolic times to creep into houses, silently like serpents, and captured silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts. This is interesting and sad, especially when we think of the exploitation of womanhood today. Selfish men, without natural affection, despisers of all that is good, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God, yet tenacious of the form of godliness, the power of which they have utterly set at naught, shall exercise a strange empire over homes and the lives and consciences of women. Professing themselves religious and calling themselves teachers of truth, they will enter homes and captivate with their teaching, women who become easy prey, women who are searching but have not come to the knowledge of the truth. This is another reason it is so important that a father and a husband be the priest in his home by instituting family worship and spiritual direction for his family. It is in God’s order for the home. Homes that are guarded and girded with the Word of God are not among the ones mentioned in our text. This is the only sure defense we have against the attacks of Satan. Perverters and deceivers are exposed through the truth of the Word. Let us fortify our homes with Christ and the Word of God. B. The Encouragement to Face the Coming Days (2 Timothy 3:10-17) Paul endured persecution because he was a faithful minister of the Lord Jesus Christ and did not fail to preach the whole counsel of God. So it will also be with the true child of God today. “Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” If the believer is true to the Lord and lives a separated life, he will suffer persecution (2 Timothy 3:12). Our problem today is that we are too closely yoked with unbelievers, that we are not marked men and women as far as Christ is concerned. Do your neighbors know that you are a Christian? Does your employer know that you are a Christian? Do your fellow-workers know that you are a Christian? Not because you obnoxiously pounce on others to make a display, but do they know you are Christian by your conduct, by your talk and walk with God? Today it seems man has set himself in supremacy over the Scriptures, and we have become judges of it instead of it judging us. Paul says that “all Scripture” (the whole Word) “is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” How important it is to hold fast the great truth that the Bible is the Word of God. Apostasy starts with the denial of this fact. Scriptures are the permanent expression of the mind and will of God. They are our only authority, and by them we will be judged. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 550 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/contents_menu.html This is a better link to share about some research that has been done with end times prophecy and this person Javier Solana. I share this only to enlighten those who might be interested in end-times prophetic events, as I am. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 256 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Read Mattew 24 the whole chapter and then read verses 21 and verses 29 to 31. It looks like we are going to go through the tribulation before Jesus Christ returns i.e. before the rapture of his church. 1 Corinthians 15:52 says that we shall be changed at the last trumpet, it looks like the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in the book of revelation. 2 Thesalonians 2:3-4 says that Jesus will not come back untill the antichrist is revealed. I believe that we are going to go through the tribulation before the Jesus Christ returns so we should be prepare. Read also revelation 13:16-18 Look at the following websites used to have very good pictures of Microchips implans/ RFID's, Veri chips and Veri pay. Now they are down you can not view these sites anymore. www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo.htm www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo2.html So I am posting this website again instead http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61357,00.html Signs before the end and the second coming of Jesus Christ Please read the following verses from your own bible because I have not written the bible verses but I have written my own little comentary about the verses Rev. 16:15 Jesus said, behold, I came as a theif.(Please note that this verse was written in revelation after the antichrist is revealed Rev. 13:16-18 and Rev. 14:8-12 the saints were going through the tribulation) 1 Thes. 4:16-18 We will meet the Lord in the air (I think that Jesus will come this way because they are going to be many false Christs in the earth and God wanted to be sure that we are not tricked into following a false christ.) Read also Acts 1:11. 2 Thes. 2:3-4 A falling away (apostacy) will come first and the anticrist will be revealed before Jesus comes back. The son of perdition (antichrist) will sit in the temple in jerusalen and proclaim himself to be God. Read also Mark 13:14. Mattew 24:5; Mark 13:5-6 and Luke 21:8 For many shall come on Jesus's name saying, I am Chirst; and shall deceive many.(One example of this is the manifest sons of God latter rain heresy). Read also Mattew 24:23-27; Mark 13:21-23 Some of the False Christs The following websites explain the manifest son's of God (Manchild) latter rain heresy and the conection to the heresy of the Joel's army www.thechristianexpositor.org/page44.html www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html Look at the false profesy about the birth of the Manchild (the Manchild is a false Christ) Mathew 24:21-22 For then shall be a great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.no.nor ever shall be. the bilble also said in verse 22 that if the days of the tribulation were not shortened no flesh would be saved and that for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Read also Mark 13:19-20 and Luke 21:12-19. Read the following verses that shows that we are going to be well into the tribulation before the second coming of Christ Mattew 24:29-31 and 36 ( No one knows the day and the hour of Jesus return but we know that is going to be apostacy, great tribulation and the son of perdition will be revealed before it happens.) Read also Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:27. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 257 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
I feel worry and sad when I think that many of the people who believe in the unbiblical doctrine of the pretribulation rapture might feel desperate and confuse when the tribulation starts and they might end up been deceived into accepting the false Christs, the anticrist and even the mark of the beast. We need to open our bibles and test with the scriptures everything that is taught to us. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 551 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
http://www.av1611.org/666.html Lagniappe, the link above explains that a system is already in place on EVERY Product we purchase off of the shelves. The Universal Product Code is a Universal Number assigned to EVERY product, and it is hidden at the beginning, middle, and end of the upc codes that we do see on the products. The invisible Universal Product Code is 666, represented by the un-marked sets of 2 thin lines at the beginning, middle, and end of all barcodes on every product we purchase. Eventually, those with the mark of the beast set in their foreheads or hands will be the only ones allowed to buy and sell... Pilgrim, I have to read your post before I can respond. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 552 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Pilgrim, I believe that the 2nd coming of Jesus is going to take place at the end of the tribulation when He actually sets His feet down on the earth's soin once again. I don't think the rapture is the same as His second coming. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 915 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
The UPC code? Are you kidding? Ergo, ratio decidendi. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 553 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
I didn't make this up, ll, just as i have not written the Bible. Go in your pantry and see for yourself. The 3 un-marked sets of 2 thin lines are not marked for a reason, but they all represent 6's and it is the number assigned to every product on the market. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 554 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Pilgrim, Here is a comparison of the rapture and the second coming. The Rapture ....... The 2nd Coming Christ comes in air.... Christ comes to the earth He comes for saints.... He comes w/the saints Claims bride.... Comes with the bride involves believers.... involves Israel and gentile tribulation beg..... melinnium begins Rapture-1 Thes. 4:16-17; 2nd coming 1 Thes. 3:13/ Zech. 14:4 (Message edited by wisedove on November 16, 2006) | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 258 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wisedove, The event described in my previous 2 messages is Jesus Christ coming back in the clows of heaven and christian meeting him in the air. You describe this event as the rapture, I believe that we will go through at least some of the tribulation before this happens. 1 Thes. 4:16-18 We will meet the Lord in the air (I think that Jesus will come this way because they are going to be many false Christs in the earth and God wanted to be sure that we are not tricked into following a false christ.) Read also Acts 1:11. 2 Thes. 2:3-4 A falling away (apostacy) will come first and the antichrist will be revealed before Jesus comes back. The son of perdition (antichrist) will sit in the temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God. Read also Mark 13:14. Read also mathew 24 I believe that will be first go though the tribulation. There is also another event where Jesus will come back after the rapture with the saints to reign in this earth for a thousand years. I believe that you call this event second coming. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 555 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Yes, Pilgrim, I call the actual time where Jesus will set His feet on the earth's soil the second coming that the Bible talks about. In 2 Thes. 2:3-7, I believe that this describes the manifestation of the antichrist is being hindered by the "one who is holding it back". Copyright © 1979, 1980, 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1998, Parsons Technology, Inc. The text of the New King James Version (NKJV) may be quoted or reprinted without prior permission with the following qualifications: (1) up to and including 1,000 verses may be quoted in printed form as long as the verses quoted amount to less that 50 percent of a complete book of the Bible and make up less that 50 percent of the total work in which they are quoted; (2) all NKJV quotations must conform accurately to the NKJV text. Any use of the NKJV text must include proper acknowledgement as follows: Scripture taken fron the New King James Version. Copyright © 1979, 1980, 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved. However, when quotations from the NKJV text are used in church bulletins, orders of service, Sunday school lessons, church newsletters, and similar works in the course of religious instruction or services at a place of worship or other religious assembly, the notice “NKJV” may be used at the end of each quotation. For quotation requests not covered by the above guidelines, write to Thomas Nelson Publishers, bible Rights and Permissions, P.O. Box 141000, Nashville, TN 37214-1000 2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 12 (NKJV) 1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of £Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of £sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits £as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only £He who now restrains will do so until £He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 259 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Look at Matthew 24:29-31 This event is not the second coming of Jesus to reign for a thousand years. This event is the rapture and it will happens immediately after the tribulation. The second coming will happen after the rapture Revelation 19:11-16 In the second coming jesus will come back on a white horse and not on the clouds of heaven as described in Matthew 24:30-31 | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 556 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
I believe the "restraining" is the Holy Spirit's presence in the believers, which will be taken away before the anti-christ is revealed, therefore, the rapture of the church will take place before the tribulation, and those raptured will be at the marriage supper of the lamb having a wedding party before returning to earth with Christ to rule and reign over those who made it through the tribulation time without worshipping the beast or the antichrist, and who did not take his mark, 666. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 557 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Title: Explorer’s Bible Study: New Testament Epistles & Revelation, Workbook Edition: First Copyright: Copyright © 1978, 1988 N.E. Constance Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1999, Parsons Technology, Inc. Permission to Quote: In compliance with copyright restrictions, no portion of these materials may be reproduced without written permission of the publisher. B. Paul Teaches that Which Precedes Christ’s Coming (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3:18) 1. Apostasy and the Man of Sin (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) Before the Day of the Lord can come there must be a falling away, and the man of sin, antichrist, the son of perdition must be revealed. A falling away from the God-given faith has been going on throughout this Christian age. This is not the apostasy. It will be a time when there will be an abandonment of faith in all Christendom. Christ said, “Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” The destructive Bible criticism rejecting inspiration and revelation, the denial of the Person and work of Christ, all these make way for the great apostasy. Today we have many cults in which Satanic powers are manifested. Ministers who are supposed to be ministering righteousness are advocating reform, better living, but denying the teaching of the Word of God, the doctrines of Christ. Antichrist will fill the measure of the final apostasy. He opposes and exalts himself against all that is called of God. He will be the super-man who will make his appearance to solve all internal and external problems of the nations. In the Book of Revelation his number is given as 666. This signifies man’s day and defiance of God under Satan’s power reaching its climax. He will make claims of being a religious character because he takes a seat in the temple of God and sets himself as God. The temple of God does not mean the church. The Jewish people, restored once more to their land, established there as a nation, though still in unbelief, will build another temple and institute once more the temple worship. God will reject this. It will take place during the time of Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation. It is interesting today to look through your Bible and see all the prophecies that have been fulfilled. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 558 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Title: Explorer’s Bible Study: New Testament Epistles & Revelation, Workbook Edition: First Copyright: Copyright © 1978, 1988 N.E. Constance Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1999, Parsons Technology, Inc. Permission to Quote: In compliance with copyright restrictions, no portion of these materials may be reproduced without written permission of the publisher. 2. Fate of the Man of Sin: Fate of Christendom (2 Thessalonians 2:5-12) Paul had previously told the Thessalonians about the mystery of lawlessness already working. This increases until there is open lawlessness in an outright, defiant opposition to God and His Son, culminating in the man of sin, the false Christ, giving the world its long-sought liberty from divine restraint, and bringing its progress to perfection, which under Christianity was impossible to attain. The Holy Spirit of God is the Restrainer, and as long as He is present in the world, Satan cannot have complete control. When the church leaves the earth, then this restraining power and Person who dwells in the church will be taken away. Then the lawless one will be revealed. The Holy Spirit came down to earth on the day of Pentecost to form the church, the body of Christ, and when that body is complete it will be taken to heaven to join Christ who is its Head. Then will great darkness settle upon the nation; the apostasy will be here. This is the best evidence that the true church cannot be on the earth during the final years with which the age will close. No true believer will be in the final apostasy under the direct rule of anti-Christ, nor will the church go through the tribulation. Rejoice and praise God! Strong delusions follow, and those left will really be deceived by the false Christ because he performs wonders and miracles. “Powers, signs and wonders” are the three-fold designation which excite attention and admiration. For a short time there will be apparent peace, and then sudden destruction will come to the earth and to all those who have been deceived. Scripture teaches that this great tribulation will last about seven years. When we study the Book of Revelation we will deal with some of these details which need much more time. In the end sin will be permitted to be its own horrible witness against itself. Let us who know God’s Word have “good hope” established in the Word and work of Christ. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 559 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Title: Explorer’s Bible Study: New Testament Epistles & Revelation, Workbook Edition: First Copyright: Copyright © 1978, 1988 N.E. Constance Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1999, Parsons Technology, Inc. Permission to Quote: In compliance with copyright restrictions, no portion of these materials may be reproduced without written permission of the publisher. 3. Exhortations (2 Thessalonians 3:1-18) “But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.” The lesson for us today is that in view of Christ’s coming our hearts should be concerned with Christian conduct. Christ’s soon coming should delight us and make us even more diligent in winning others to Him. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 560 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
VIII. The Latter-Days and Apostasy (1 Timothy 4:1-16) A. Satan’s Power in Opposition to the Truth (1 Timothy 4:1-5) Paul gives a prophetic warning concerning the apostasy in the last days. The apostasy has nothing to do with nonbelievers. They never belonged to the church, to the true church of Christ, and not being eligible as members, they cannot apostatize. It therefore has to include those who will depart from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. Satan attacks the faith first, as this is the foundation upon which all else rests. How evident this is today! The mystery of godliness, the doctrine of Christ, is increasingly being denied and rejected through many active systems. Many of Satan’s ministers appear as ministers of righteousness. They teach the most deadly error under the guise of piety, devotion and a deeper religious knowledge. Evil and error always put on the form of truth and godliness. Many systems that claim to be Christian are anti-Christian. Some of these systems forbid what God has established in creation. Marriage is an institution of God and sanctified by Him. They exalt themselves against the authority of God, forbidding what God allows. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 561 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
B. God’s Remedy Against Apostasy (1 Timothy 4:6-16) We must avoid whatever leads us away from godliness. Study the Word; know sound doctrine and preach it. Have faith in the living God who is our Saviour, God, and who by His power and providence sustains all men. He is the preserver of all, and especially of those who believe. Paul urges Timothy, although youthful, to set a good example in his life and to walk as a minister, in word, in conduct, in faith and in purity. Paul admonished Timothy to study and not neglect the gift God had given him. A gift may be idle and neglected, but used, it should grow and be a blessing to others. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 260 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wisedove, Look at the following website about The Restrainer. http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/rstrnr.html I feel very tired I must go to sleep now. Tomorrow I need to get up very early. We talk tomorrow. Blessings Pilgrim | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 562 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Get some rest! God Bless. Dove | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 563 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
Pilgrim, More info. to ponder: 2. The Blessed Hope of the Believer (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) This portion of Scripture contains one of the great revelations of the Bible. It was necessary for Paul to teach regarding this, as the Thessalonians were confused as to what happened to fellow believers who died before the coming of Christ, which they were looking to happen any day. They feared that the dead would lose their share in the glorious meeting between Christ and His saints. They knew Christ would come again because He said He would. They waited for Him, but did not know the manner of His coming. What Paul teaches here to dispel their ignorance was a comfort to them as it is also a comfort to us today. Jesus Christ died and rose again, and so shall all believers. Saints in life or death are in His hands. Jesus Christ is now at the right hand of God the Father in glory, crowned with honor and glory. When His church which is made up of believers is complete, then Christ will return for His own and all will be gathered to meet Him in the air. Now this is the time that Christ comes for His saints. It is not the visible manifestation as when He will come with His saints following the great tribulation. Paul gives a vivid description of all that will take place. Let us not rationalize or minimize what he is saying. The shout and the trump of God will gather the fellow-heirs of Christ. The dead in Christ shall rise first, the righteous dead. The rest of the dead (the wicked dead) will be raised later to judgment. Then we who are alive and remain, the living, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This is all believers; it does not include those who only profess to be Christians and are nominal church members, but none will be excluded who really belong to the Lord and are watching and waiting for His return. The change will be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. What a blessed time of reunion this will be with loved ones who preceded us. What a blessed hope we have in Christ, not death or the grave but the coming of the Lord. Are you anticipating this glorious event? Live each day as if this were the day Christ would give forth the sound for that meeting in the air. What joy and comfort this must have been to the sorrowing Thessalonians. They are today words of comfort and joy and hope for all believers. In that day all laws of gravitation will be set aside, for the power of God which raised Jesus from the dead will be displayed in behalf of His saints. Between the coming of the Lord for His saints and the coming of the Lord with His saints will be seven years of great tribulation, when the wrath of God will be poured out in judgment against those who reject Jesus Christ. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 564 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
cont. E. Paul’s Exhortation on the Day of the Lord (1 Thessalonians 5:1-28) 1. The Day of the Lord (1 Thessalonians 5:1-11) The Day of the Lord is that day when judgment will be executed upon the world. This day was fully revealed in the Old Testament through the teaching of the prophets. Christ Himself said that this Day of the Lord would be prefaced with “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” (Luke 21:25-27). (See also Matthew 24:21-31). The world will know the judgment when that day comes, as judgments and tribulation are the forerunners which usher it in. The world rejects the idea of such a day because the dream is of peace and safety, in prosperity, in expansion of power, universal peace and a constant improvement of earthly conditions. The world is full of false hope and false optimism. After vengeance has been taken on those who know not God and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, man’s day having ended, the Lord Jesus Christ will reign over the earth with His saints for a thousand years (Revelation 20). Paul admonishes us to watch and be sober as children of the day and as children of light. Being sober, walking in separation from the world, its lusts and pleasures, the believer having on the breastplate of faith and love can advance against the enemy. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 565 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.114.160 |
2. Final Exhortations (1 Thessalonians 5:12-28) As a soldier who is armed and ready for conflict, so the Christian is to be armed and waiting for the return of Christ, faithful in working and occupying until He should come. Paul admonishes the Christians to be at peace among themselves: those who are disorderly are to be disciplined; the fainthearted are to be comforted; the weak sustained, and patience is to be manifested toward all. Following this we have joy, prayer and thanksgiving as characteristic of those who are waiting for Christ’s return. “Rejoice always.” Our joy is in the Lord and the joy of the Lord is the strength of God’s people. “Pray without ceasing.” This is constantly needed. “In everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.” “Do not quench the Spirit.” The Holy Spirit must not be hindered in the midst of His people. “Do not despise prophecies.” “Test all things; hold fast what is good.” “Abstain from every form of evil.” We are aware as Paul closes this epistle that it is with a deep sense of the great responsibility on the part of him, his co-laborers and all believers. We are aware also of the great faithfulness of God who has called us. Let us pray one for another. God is faithful and will bring to completion the work He has begun in us. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 262 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Hi wisedove, I agree with most of what you said except that I believe that all the scriptures that you gave me refer to the same event. Jesus coming back in the clouds of heaven and Christian meeting him in the air. Acts 1:11. Some people preach that the rapture and second coming are that same event because the rapture happens when Jesus comes back in the clouds of heaven for the second time. Jesus will come back for the third time on the white horse to finish the kingdom of the antichrist and start the millenium with christ.Rev. 19:14-16 Some people also called this event second coming. Wildwood, I do not understand everything in the book of revelation but I am trying very hard and I believe that the Holy Spirit will guide you and me to the whole truth if we just want to sincerely find out the truth. Every few months I understand these prophesies a bit better. I just feel worry because if I am right and the rapture happens after the Mark of the Beast, people who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture might take the Mark of the Beast thinking that is not the Mark of the Beast because the rapture should happen first. I believe that it is very important to ask the Holy Spirit to help us to understand these prophesies because we are on the end times. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 263 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wilwood, I wonder why my last post is number 262 when my previous post abut The Restrainer was number 260. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 264 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wilwood, You can also look at the following website. http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/ I have found parts of this website helpful although I have to admit that I have not yet read the whole website. It is just to big!! | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 566 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Pilgrim, Hi, once again. Thanks for great dialogue with me on this. I believe differently, that's all. I will tell you this much, if the rapture came after the trib. (which i don't think it will) Most, if not all Christians should know about the Mark thing and just reject it. When is the marriage supper of the lamb to take place if the rapture and His second coming are taking place at the same time? I believe the rapture is when He gathers the Christians up with Him in the air, and then a 7 year long wedding supper of the Lamb will take place while there's the tribulation going on on earth, and then Christ will come back for the second time (His appearing in the sky is not the same as His RETURNING to the earth) to put a stop to the wars going on, and every knee will bow and tongue will confess that HE IS LORD, and those who chose to follow the Antichrist and who received the mark will just be annihilated with the speaking of His Voice. Those left will be the faithful who refused to follow the Antichrist and False Prophet, were not martyred, and will go into the millennial kingdom on EARTH where the rapture will reign with HIM. Yes, I agree that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth. The beginning of Rev. says we are blessed if we study the book. (Revelation.) Rev. is truly the Revelation of Jesus, as well as what will take place. I did a 7 week long in depth study just recently. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 567 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
I agree with John Hagee and Jack Van Impe on the views of the pre-trib. rapture. Hal Lindsey teaches it that way as well. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 569 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Pilgrim (and any others) I came across this study in my quickverse pc software about the mark. I beleive that these verses tell of angels who will warn those on the earth during the tribulation not to take the mark or they will receive the wrath of God. V. Into the Light: The 144,000 and the Message of the Angels (Revelation 14:1-10) Out of the darkness into the light again! The lamb is surrounded by the 144,000 who sing a new song before his throne. The earth below is ripe in its wickedness, and richly deserves the judgment that is about to fall. Three angels are dispatched with messages from God. They are testimonies to God’s mercy and love. In the midst of the wicked rule of the beast and the false prophet, God still calls all to repent and refuse the beast’s seal. No one will take the mark of the beast in ignorance. God warns them of what it means to choose the beast over the True God. Those standing true and faithful to God will be comforted by what the angels declare—that God will prevail and their faithfulness will be rewarded.} | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 570 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
continued, A. The Message of the fourth Angel—Harvest of Judgment There is no suffering for any class of God’s people in any age like the sufferings of those who remain faithful to God during the reign of the antichrist. It is equivalent to a voluntary coming forward to the state block to have their heads chopped off. Therefore there is another proclamation from heaven for their special strengthening and consolation. Whether this word is also from an angel we are not told, but it is a message from glory and from God. That message is: “Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.” This is true of all the saints of all ages, but it is particularly true of those who at this time lose their lives for their faithful obedience. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 571 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
B. The Vision of the Cloud (Revelation 14:14-20) “Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud,” From this we may be quite sure of what is coming. That cloud is the signal of the second advent of the Lord Jesus. That cloud is “white,” like fire at its most intense heat, like the lightning itself, portending the purest as well as the hottest wrath toward the powers which have usurped the dominion of the earth. “Having on His head a golden crown.” It was the same Son of man, in the same cloud, settled in all the royal prerogatives of the same supreme dominion, and manifested for the same purpose of dispossessing and destroying the beast. “Another angel” comes “out of the temple,” not “the temple which is in heaven,” as in verse 17, or it would be so stated, but “the temple” as distinguished from “the temple which is in heaven.” Therefore it is the temple on earth, referring either to the material temple rebuilt and reconsecrated or the spiritual temple as made up of those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, or both; that is, from the very point and place where the antichrist has enacted his greatest enormities of wickedness. “He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.” Tremendous words! What plagues descend with that sharp sickle. What a crash comes with its descent upon a world now dead ripe for final judgment. What powers and systems fall before it! What sores and agonies it brings to them that bear the mark of the beast and worship his image! What pestilential decay it strikes into the sea where the beast rises and into the rivers and fountains where his subjects drink! What new blazes of consuming heat it gives to the sun! What torment it inflicts upon the throne of the beast and darkness and anguish upon his kingdom! What cries and thunders and lightnings and earthquakes and hailstorms and trembling of nations and anxieties of men it arouses into activity! It brings down great Babylon with a crash that fills the world with lamentations and horror. It strips the great adulteress of all her pride and queenliness and fills her with torment and sorrow and burning. It sinks all the riches and glories of a godless world into one common ruin, never to be brought up again. The vision of the vintage: “Another angel” comes out of “the temple which is in heaven” the temple which is in heaven as distinguished from the temple which is on earth. “So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth.” The vine of the earth is that which stands over against “the vine of heaven.” The true vine is Christ, and Christians are the branches. “The vine of the earth” is antichrist, and its branches are his adherents and followers. The grapes of this vine of the earth are the matured children of wickedness, and “their wine is the poison of serpents, and the cruel venom of cobras.” (Deuteronomy 32:32-33). They have by this time gone as far as they can go. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 572 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
A more particular description of this gathering of the hosts of antichrist into the winepress, and the treading of it by the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, is given in the latter part of chapters 16 and 19. It is in reality a war scene, the gathering of armies, the bringing together of the kings of the earth and of the whole world to the battle of the great day of God Almighty. It is for military purposes that they come, seduced, drawn and impelled by unclean spirits that issue out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. The region of their assembly is the Holy Land. “And the winepress was trampled.” What strength have grapes against the weight and power of a man when he comes to set his feet upon them? And the riper they are, the more helpless. They must be crushed, their existence destroyed, their life-blood poured out; so with these “fully ripe” clusters, now gathered into the great winepress of the wrath of God. No weapon they can raise, no resistance they can make, can avail them. The beast was hailed as the invincible, but his invincibility is nothing now. The false prophet could make fire come down from heaven in the presence of men, but he can command no fires to withstand the lightnings of the angry and inexorable Judge. The heel of Omnipotence is upon them and they can only break and sink beneath it. “And blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.” A river of human blood 160 miles in length and up to the bridles of the horses in depth, tells an awful story. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, so great was the bloodshed that Josephus says the whole city ran down with the blood to such a degree that the fires of many of the houses were quenched by it. When Sylla took Athens, Plutarch says the blood that was shed in the market place alone covered all the ceramicus as far as Dipylus, and some testify that it ran through the gates and overflowed the suburbs. Nor are we to think of any exaggeration in the very definite description of what John saw here as the consequence of the treading of this winepress. It is “the great winepress of the wrath of God.” It is the last great consummate act of destruction which is to end this present world. The masses on whom it is executed are “the kings of the earth, and their armies” (Revelation 16:14; 19:19) stationed in a line from Bozrah in Edom to Es-draelon in Galilee. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 573 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
The Rapture and Return of Jesus Christ Compared Phase One (The Rapture) Phase Two (The Return of Christ) Christ comes to receive His church in the air. Christ returns with His bride and angels to the earth. The seven-year tribulation begins shortly after the rapture of the church. The millennial kingdom (1,000 years) of Christ is established after His return. The event is imminent; it could happen at any time. Numerous signs precede this event (cf. Rev. 6-19) This is a message of comfort for believers. This is a message of judgment (and warning) for unbelievers. The church is of primary importance. Israel is of primary importance. The rapture is a mystery. Christ’s return is predicted in both the Old and New Testaments. The judgment seat of Christ for believers occurs. (1) The sheep and goats’ judgment occurs (Matt 25:31-46). (2) Antichrist and the world are judged (Rev 19:11-21) Only believers are affected. All people are affected. The church is taken into the Lord’s presence in heaven. All believers are brought into the millennial kingdom to reign with Christ on earth. The major concern of 1 Thessalonians The major concern of 2 Thessalonians (Message edited by wisedove on November 17, 2006) | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 918 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Boy, I'm glad I don't have to worry about all that. More than I can comprehend. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 574 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
LL, It's more than most can comprehend, that's why we need the Holy Spirit to enlighten us daily. For clarification, all of this discussion started by another person creating a thread using Ted Haggard's name and then feeling like it was O.K. to just boast about blaspheming the Holy Spirit and that he/she was eager to go to hell. I pray before I post, when it is something of this nature that needs to be addressed. People can mock and condemn and persecute, but when it comes to the truth's of God's Word, there are no apologies and I will not be like many EN pastor's who don't even preach the rapture. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 921 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
My posts about going to hell are tongue-in-cheek. Your religion tells you that I am going to hell, and that's fine. Mine tells me that I am not. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 576 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
In your post above, when you were walking in agreement with Frank, you said it was by your choice, not by some demonic force or satanic influence that you would not be going to heaven. Where will you go, then? What does the Jewish faith teach in this regard?
Jesus was a Jew. He is coming back to rule from Jerusalem. I don't mock Jews. They are His chosen people. I believe He is their Messiah. It's what the Word Of God says. I am not making that up. Thanks for the dialogue. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 577 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
I pray for the People of Israel. I Bless Israel, in Jesus' name. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 925 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Wise, in some things I am in agreement with you. Sometimes, maybe Frank. Sometimes I agree with Joyce Meyer. Charles Stanley even. In other words, if someone says something I agree with, I agree, regardless of their faith background (or lack thereof, evern). Speak has spoken. I would be more than happy to share with you what REFORM Jews believe regarding heaven, even though that would vary a lot, however it is not in keeping with the thread topic. It has nothing to do with EN. You can check out the Union for Reform Judaism for more information if you really want to know. I think it's www.urj.org. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 578 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
LL, I don't answer to man, I must answer to God alone. If He has me post about a topic here, it will be done. There are other Jews reading this, perhaps, that can benefit from our conversation here. There is a ton of information ALL over this board that has nothing to do with EN. On the other hand, this discussion in a lot of ways has alot to do with EN. In the past, EN got away from placing Jesus as head of His church, His bride. Any one in the body of Christ is His Bride. He is coming back for His Bride, the church. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 579 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
I will check out that site that you posted, because I am curious to know more about the Jews. Thanks. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 926 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
wise: One thing you should know if you are seeking information about the Jews. An Orthodox Jew has very different beliefs than a Reform Jew, yet they are all Jews. The central uniting belief that they share is stated in the Shema: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is One God." Beyond that, everything changes. If one doesn't understand at least this much, one may get confused pretty quickly. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 580 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Thanks. I will also go to the Word to do a deeper study. All I know is that Jesus was a Jew, and He is our Messiah, and I believe what God's Word says is true. I will keep you and others in my prayers, for God's Will to prevail in your life. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 927 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Wisedove said: LL, I don't answer to man... See, dove, I knew we had something in common. Just ask my husband. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 266 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wisedove, You wrote, When is the marriage supper of the lamb to take place if the rapture and His second coming are taking place at the same time? I did mentioned before that I believe that Jesus will come back on the clouds of heavens to take his bride ie his church and the marriage supper will take place. You believe that this event will happen pre-tribulation and I believe that will happen mid to post tribulation. Here is where we differ. After the marriage supper Jesus will come back as a king to defeat the antichrist and start the millennium. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 581 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Thanks, Pilgrim. I just would rather picture a full 7 years of supper festivities where Jesus will be passing out our wedding gifts as He points out to His Father God all we mean to Him...With the number of people in the Church, i would hope it would take 7 years to get around to everyone. Thanks again. LL, I smiled, and I think my own husband would agree, but I am also trying to learn true respect for him and how to properly (key word) submit to him as my head, under Christ. The Word is clear about this,too, thankfully. I have not always been (rarely ever b/c I'm pretty pig-headed and strong willed) been respectful of him and have not always submitted to him. God is doing a work in me on how to have a meek and quiet spirit which is of great price to the Lord, and i would assume would be a great price for my husband as well.  (Message edited by wisedove on November 17, 2006) | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 928 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
Wise, my husband has no complaints. I love him dearly and I treat him like a king....most of the time. I don't know many wives who save their chicken and egg money to buy their husband a Paul Reed Smith just because he wants one. I seek to be a Proverbs wife but that doesn't mean not speaking the truth when it needs to be spoken. Meekness isn't always a virtue; there's a season for everything. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 582 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Believe me, I know all to well how to speak the truth when it needs to be spoken! Where my role as wife and mother comes in, it is definitely an area God wants to teach me to be more like below...For the Spanish/Italian in me (and Cajun French thrown in, too..) brings out a not so lovely OR quiet spirit. It is an area I am trying to place under the Holy Spirit's control...For my husband DOES have complaints! (well, I am always able to justify WHAT I say, but it is the HOW I say them that needs toning down.) Title: New Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Testament Volume Edition: Third Copyright: Copyright © 1990, Tyndale House Publishers, Inc. Electronic Edition Files Copyright © 1998, Parsons Technology, Inc. Permission to Quote: a meek and quiet spirit—A woman who has this spirit does not go around making disturbances; rather she quietly bears the disturbances that others cause (cf. 1 Tim. 2:9-11). A woman with such a spirit is gentle in her feelings and relationships and quiet in her words, bearing, and action. which is in the sight of God of great price—We need to remember that God observes our hearts, not just our outer appearance. Since Christ’s lifeblood is precious to us (1:19), we should try to live in a way that is precious, or pleasing to God. 5 the “meek and quiet spirit” of 3:4 was seen in the saintly women of old (cf. Prov. 31:30). They were saintly because they trusted in God and knew how to submit to the authority God had established. 6 Sarah is a good example of what a woman’s attitude should be toward her husband. calling him lord— | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 583 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
I'm not sure how my husband would react if i called him 'lord'. | ||
| lablady2 Advanced Member Username: lablady2 Post Number: 929 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.219.171.224 |
I would have to brush up on my CPR before I called my husband "lord." | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 584 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
yes, me, too. | ||
| formermaranathapastor Intermediate Member Username: formermaranathapastor Post Number: 198 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.37.153.44 |
This is a good example of the harm that literal interpretation has done to well meaning Christians. Men and women are equal in every way, and a marriage is a partnership with no party being the "greater". Each spouse should submit to each other in love, and no one has the greater truth or the higher authority. The statements of Paul and other New test. writers to the contrary, are the product of a different culture, and a different historical and social context. To hold that 2000 year old cultural statements apply today is fanaticism and foolishness. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 585 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Word of God (Heb. 4:12, etc.). The Bible so called because the writers of its several books were God’s organs in communicating his will to men. It is his “word,” because he speaks to us in its sacred pages. Whatever the inspired writers here declare to be true and binding upon us, God declares to be true and binding. This word is infallible, because written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and therefore free from all error of fact or doctrine or precept. (See INSPIRATION, BIBLE.) All saving knowledge is obtained from the word of God. In the case of adults it is an indispensable means of salvation, and is efficacious thereunto by the gracious influence of the Holy Spirit (John 17:17; 2 Tim. 3:15, 16; 1 Pet. 1:23). | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 267 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Hey, I just called my husband Lord to see how he would react. He said, "blasphemous" I replied why did you say that? He said because Jesus is Lord and not me. In 2002 we got involved in another latter rain cult. I left my husband to do a mayor decision on his own. He complained that I should have stopped him from making that decision if I thought that was not the best one. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 586 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
From Quickverse pc software Methods of interpreting the Bible The aim of all biblical interpretation should be to travel down the correct path in order to arrive at scriptural truth. “Improper” paths Interpreting the Bible by means of improper methodology is nothing new. Peter warns against this in 2 Peter 3:16, where he refers to Paul’s inspired writings, “which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [that is distort], as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” The need for revelation The Bible teaches us that we need revelation from God if we are to know about him and know him for ourselves. The Bible as a body of literature exists because human beings need to know certain spiritual truths to which they cannot attain by themselves. Our need for revelation is indicated in Deuteronomy 29:29; “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 587 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Guidelines for interpreting Scripture 1. Look for the author’s intended meaning As we read we should never ignore the ordinary, plain, literal sense of each passage. We should try never to superimpose a meaning on the Bible that is really not there. The idea is to discover the meaning the author had in mind. 2. Look at the context A text taken out of context can all too easily become a pretext for almost anything. The context is discovered by looking at the whole verse in question, the surrounding verses, the preceding chapter and the following chapter and the whole drift of the topic under discussion in the Bible passage. “If we would understand the parts, our wisest course is to get to know the whole.” J.I. Packer 3. Look at the type of literature you are reading The Bible contains many different types of literature and each type should be read for what it Isa. If one reads a parable as if it is history or poetry as if it is straightforward narrative one is likely to misinterpret the passage. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 588 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
4. Look at the Old Testament in light of the New Testament The Old Testament should always be interpreted in the light of the New Testament. And the New Testament should always be interpreted against the background of the Old Testament. “In the Old Testament the New is concealed. In the New Testament the Old is revealed.” Augustine of Hippo 5. Compare Scripture with Scripture The best commentary on the Bible is the Bible itself. Compare relevant parts of Scripture with each other. Any part of the human body can only be properly explained in reference to the whole body. And any part of the Bible can only be properly explained in reference to the whole Bible. 6. Rely on the Holy Spirit The Bible itself says that we are to rely on the Holy Spirit’s illumination as we seek its meaning. See John 16:12–15; 1 Corinthians 2:9–11. He who inspired the Word, the Holy Spirit, (2 Peter 1:21) is also its supreme interpreter. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” 2 Peter 1:21. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 589 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.150.36.202 |
Pilgrim, you are too funny! I think I will try this out when my hubby comes home later! Yes, we are definitely supposed to speak with wisdom into our husband's lives. I totally believe that is what being a HELPMATE means. They should earnestly seek the council of their wives on some issues! We tend to be full of wisdom in areas that they might not be. that's where balance comes in, and submitting to one another. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1450 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.216.82 |
Well wisedove I also believe in a pre trib rapture. What is the worst thing that can happen if I am wrong? A little head chopping after getting to witness history and then off to glory. The temple in Israel needs to be rebuilt. Babylon will be rebuilt or maybe it is Rome?, maybe both. It will be fun. Wisedove preach it. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 591 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
Hey, 40. Thanks! Yes, the temple needs to be rebuilt, and it is already prefabricated, which means when they are ready to build it, it will go up quickly. I think (not sure) that they ordered the prefabricated pieces last year. | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 592 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
I'm not sure if the temple is to be rebuilt before or after the rapture, but I do know it needs to be in place for the anti-christ's brief rule. Here's a link that talks about the prefabricated parts purchased and ready for rapid assembly. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44672 | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 593 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Temple Here's a better detailed entry on the temple. Google "rebuilding the temple" for more. Dove http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/ (Message edited by wisedove on November 18, 2006) | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 594 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/ testing this out. the link above didn't work. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 269 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Read the following articles about microchips implants. "He causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six." -- Revelation 13: 16-18 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18767 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=14913 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17834 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15185 Michrochips implants to people in a club in Barcelona to make payments http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38038 Look also at this article in the following website LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER Employees get microchip implants Company requires controversial device for certain workers http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48760 | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 270 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wilwood, This is for you look at the following paragraphs for from the following web site. The rapture when? Here is that one resurrection again. (Rev.20:4)… [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5)… This is the first resurrection. Notice that the saints who were beheaded because they would not take the mark of the beast are in the first resurrection. It was called first by John looking into the future from 96 A.D. after Jesus’ resurrection. This tells us that there is no resurrection and rapture before the tribulation mark of the beast. The second resurrection, called the second death in verse six, is after a thousand years and is for the wicked. Since the first resurrection is also the only resurrection of the righteous, it must be at the end of the tribulation. If it was at the beginning, the great multitude that is purified during the great tribulation could not be resurrected. (Rev.7:9) After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of [all] tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb… (14)…And he said to me, These are they that come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Notice that the resurrection and rapture are after the great tribulation, which most agree is the last 3½ years. http://www.americaslastdays.com/hm03.htm Wilwood, again I am grateful to God for the love that you have shown through making people aware that the antichrist is coming. Blessings Pilgrim | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 595 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
Pilgrim, Wildwood and I are two different (yet rather like-minded) people that post here. Thanks for confusing me with her! dove Thanks for the additional info. I still think the rapture of the church (Christians alive when it takes place) will take place before the trib. I think that the souls that had not been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus are those who will have the chance one last time to receive Christ DURING the trib. Perhaps unsaved ones who heard of His return, but never received Him before the rapture. These will be a great multitude of people during the trib. that will take a stand for Jesus, and for the Word of God, who will not take the mark of the beast. God Bless you, Pilgrim. Thanks again. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 272 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Wisedove, I am so sorry, I posted the last message to you quickly and wilwood was the first name that came into my head. Good bless you too. pilgrim | ||
| wisedove Advanced Member Username: wisedove Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.156.111.66 |
wildwood, wisedove, completely understandable! She's a pretty neat person to be confused with. It's a compliment. | ||
| 40days40years Senior Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 1452 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 17.184.103.245 |
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