| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
Is anyone familiar with World Breakthrough Network, an apostolic organization founded by Noel Woodruffe? Woodruffe is also senior pastor at The Elijah Centre, a church in Trinidad. I have heard several sermons at my former church given by a visiting apostle who is affiliated with this network, and his sermons were very fringe and bordered on, possibly were, heresy. Their website also contains some alarming stuff, in particular on the section about their leadership structure. Here is the website: http://www.wbnetwork.org/ | ||
| Anonymous (4.10.172.236) |
Just bumping this thread up, hoping to keep it near the top, in case anyone has heard of WBN. Thanks. | ||
| Anonymous (193.5.216.124) |
You can go here: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/1259.html?1091050177 | ||
| t brown (82.33.18.94) |
Yeah, i'm in a church that's recently connected with WBN or Congress WBN as they're changing their name to... i'm in the process of challenging them (via my church leader) as I've been finding various things that don't seem quite right. Their arrogance as apostles Their self centered teaching Their teaching that paul would say is there to "tickle our ears" (II Timothy). Their teaching on "The Elijah Dimention" is a new concept that glorifies us by moving us to a "higher spiritual place" such that we can "conquer over the rules of this physical place", i'm feeling my ears being tickled!!!! They don't seem to have any evangelistic focus, their aim seems to be to spread WBN across the globe, not the gospel. It's suspicious ground, i've not made a decision on whether i'm sticking with my church, but it's not looking hopeful. I'd warn anyone who's looking like they're going to be involved with this network to weigh up EVERYTHING they hear, and check it with the ultimate plumb line... The Bible. | ||
| Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
Do you know the details on the name change from World Breakthrough Network to Congress World Breakthrough Network? -- Why they are changing it, the significance, etc? This quote: "Their aim seems to be to spread WBN across the globe, not the gospel" is so true. Sad, but true. | ||
| Mondie Daniel (196.201.128.141) |
You Need to be in accurete Diamension with god to Understand the Apstolic Reformation of Congrees WBN. Get Closser For the Truth | ||
| Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
That is very typical of the WBN's convoluted speech and condescension. It implies that the members of WBN are on a higher dimension or plane than the rest of us who poor people who are apparently not able to discern from our lower dimensions. This is very elitist and prideful. | ||
| Daniel Mondie (81.199.76.180) |
People needs to understand that Knowledge counts in Knowing the position of God. Knowing God depends on your ability to accend spiritually and accurately doing what he wants us to do and to avoid the avoidables. That is the angle you need to be to understand congress WBN. I still advice the onlookers to get involve for the present truth | ||
| samantha.O (80.179.104.186) |
The Congress WBN, is not an elitist group of people who feel they are better than others. They are basically a group of churches and people who have realised that Christians must get real.Christianity is not ONLY about GOd meeting your needs and blessing you and protecting you but also coming to be like Christ.The whole essence of Christ death and ressurrection was to elevate us back to our position in God before the Fall of Man.Man did not fall from not having money or cars or breakthroughs but from not being able to reach God in the way we ought to.CWBN is just trying to tell the body of christ that there is more in God than material things.Jesus Christ said greater things shall we do ,with our present focus on ourselves and material things i dont think we will be able to achieve that,if we dont look beyond these things.CWBN is a medium that is being used to spread the gospel if you think there is undue emphasis it is because it is presently expanding and people need to understand the way it operates.CWBN is a group of churches worldwide that intend to form a formidable force of people who want to do the will of GOD in every continent.I think it is commendable that churches are now looking beyond themselves and recognising that we are one and can and should work together as one voice.Remember one can put to flight a thousand two ten thousand.Finally,i encourage you to visit the web site as suggested and make up your own mind for your self. | ||
| samantha.O (80.179.104.186) |
I forgot to add that the word apostole means the "sent",There are the apostles of the Lamb (The twelve) that no person can lay claim to, but there is also the office as provided for in ephesians 4:12 which is as relevant today as the other offices of the pastor, teacher, evangelist, prophet.No office is superior to the other it is all a matter of function.Did Jesus NOT overcome the Laws of gravity by walking on water?Did Jesus not calm Storms?He was not limited to the PHysical laws and neither should we be.The BIBLe says he is the First among many Brothers, he came to show us the way and to set an example for us,he assured us that greater things shall we do and my brother i tell you we will never be able to operate and be like him if we dont arise from complacency and move to a "higher spiritual place" by getting closer to him. That im sorry to say is the Raw reality,He is coming for a church without spot wrinkle or blemish, people sold out to him ,You can never be sold out if you dont reach for more of GOD.Like every thing in life there is a time and a season.A time to be a child and a Time to be An Adult.Children Do Child Like things and Adults move on to do more mature things.The Call to Go to A Higher Spiritual Place Is Not Just for People in CWBN but i think That is what GOD would want for every man or woman who says he or she is a Christian.I dont think there is anything ticklish about that.Remember the world is waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of GOd and im doubtful if complacent Christianity can achieve that. Can You even begin to imagine the Evangelistic force a body of believers would have if the operated together.not as individuals but one people with one agenda Gods? Expolsive!!! I am truly grateful to God for what he is starting to do in the Body of Christ.I THink This is the Beginining of the Golden Era for the Church. I tell you it is terribly exciting!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
Samantha- I have had personal experiences with and have personally heard numerous sermons by an "apostle" who is in the high up in the leadership hierarchy of World Breakthrough Network. The simple gosbep of reaching the lost for Jesus was not even mentioned in any of his sermons. They were all - everyone - about "invading" the current church to reform the thoughts and mentalities of the church and to achieve "kingdom dominion". His sermons were very condescending to all present church structure, in particular what he refers to as the "Americanized" church. He made it very plain that he and his network believe that they have the only true pattern for the church, and that any other pattern was inferior and even unbiblical, and that other churches needed new "technology downloaded" into their minds to see "present truths". If that does not met the definition of elitist, what does? He also has been very condescending to women and borderline crude at times, at one point even stating that men would be more of who God wants them to be if there wives would just be more supportive and buy lingerie to keep them from straying from home and becoming distracted by others. Also, I have read the WBN website. There are many red flags that go up, including some of their "mandates" and leadership structure and their wide corporate scope which seeks to gather money for when the "Babylon system" falls. Also, by their own words, they are influenced by the Latter Rain movement, which in and of itself is alarming. I still say that this network organization is dangerous. | ||
| rome (167.1.119.100) |
Dear anonymous, Though Iam an Indian residing in the other part of the globe I feel CWBN is on the right track setting an example for the entire church by boldly establishing the blueprint of God's tabernacle here on planet earth-a pattern which is after God's own heart.Lost people are not only in the world outside it is found right within the church.Just because you are saved doesn't mean you are completely saved,we still have the soul still creating a mess in the Body of Christ.By what i understand, salvation is a process in which we continuously worked it out . Our mindsets needs to be aligned with God's present purposes on earth. | ||
| Nicholas (212.165.151.133) |
don't let ignorance, pride and sentiment blind u from seeing what God is crafting in the earth. do u really think even the way u have church now is the way it has always been? u should first seek the spirit of God to give understanding, dont make the mistake of judging by the flesh cos that is why the jews missed the coming of christ. study the history of the church and see how it has evolved and how God has restored truth to it at diferent times. the network isnt negating what God has done in the past but declaring the present emphasis of the spirit of God to the church. the structure of the body of christ in ist present state does not have the ability and capacity take believers and ultimately humanity to accomplish the true essence of the great commission and intention of God since the fall.the network is declaring to the body of christ the next level for it and not excluding itself from the body. dont think buy listening to one message u can get what the network is all about. have the spirit of a child christ talk about so that u can recieve this engrafted word of truth that has the ability to save ur soul (ensure ur salvation). | ||
| Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
Nicholas - I know my convictions regarding WBN; I believe it has some serious doctrinal and leadership issues. That is not out of ignorance, pride, or sentiment to hold those convictions, nor do my convictions come from simply listening to just "one message" as you wrote. I have heard quite a number of messages and had personal experience with one of the WBN leaders, and I have studied the WBN website. Those things all led me to have serious concerns about the WBN's doctrine, teachings, and leadership structure. I truly believe my concerns are based on God-given discernment, as do the majority of people who heard these same messages and had experiences with the WBN leader and studied the WBN website and articles. How prideful of YOU, though, to assume that just because someone disagrees with you about WBN that means that person is ignorant and - much worse - that person is unsaved. I do not need my salvation to be ensured, as I accepted Christ as my savior many years ago and love Him very much. My disagreement with the teachings and leadership structure of the WBN does not put my salvation in jeopardy. You wrote: "the network is declaring to the body of christ the next level for it and not excluding itself from the body. dont think buy listening to one message u can get what the network is all about. have the spirit of a child christ talk about so that u can recieve this engrafted word of truth that has the ability to save ur soul (ensure ur salvation)." Does that mean that you believe that to have one's salvation ensured, one must believe in this new "engrafted", "next-level" truth? In my Bible, only one level - that of believing and receiving the Lord Jesus as Savior and Lord - ensures salvation. What exactly is this "next-level" truth you wrote about? It sounds very much like it is adding to the Scriptures, which is a BIG no-no. | ||
| CULTBUSTER (64.12.117.20) |
I read God, God, God in all of this. But I don't read a word mentioning Jesus. Why is that? Are these so called "apostles" so high in God's favor that they've made an end run around Jesus and are instructed by God directly and not through the Holy Spirit. Whatever happened to Jesus? A sure sign of a cult is no mention of Jesus. When you have an "Apostle" lording over you, who needs Jesus? These people will be shocked when they find out that these false prophets can't even get themselves into heaven much less their cult members. A church without Jesus is a C U L T. | ||
| My Church Is A Cult (64.12.117.20) |
Duh...Jesus is God. By the way, on another thread, when you were raining down your judgment on Congress-WBN with the use of duck analogy and metaphor, you climaxed with 'By God, it is a cult'. Were you doing an end run around Jesus in that judgment? Shouldn't you have said, 'By Jesus, it is a cult?" Are you a cult? | ||
| Anonymous (193.5.216.124) |
Cultbuster is not speaking about just one sentance or two. but about all their doctrine. I have hear quite a few messages from them and i have never heared about Jesus-Christ, it's look really like you're gonna go to heaven through wbn and not through your faith in Jesus-Christ. In their teachings they lead you away from your relationship with God, and little by little you have no more intimacy with your Savior, you're no more able to hear from the Holy-Spirit and then they can teach you whatever they want, you loose your sense of discernement. It's a little harsh how I tell it, but somehow it's working like that. Find Jesus-Christ, find a true relationship with Him, read the Word of God, find some brethren who preach Christ and Him crucified and go forward in your daily life whith Him. Don't waste your time with these so-called apostles and prophets to finally find that you have been deceived. It's right that the Christianity of today is not perfect, but don't leave it to find something worst. Go back to the root, to the Bible, read about our faithfathers. Because of His mercy, Raphael | ||
| My Church Is A Cult (198.81.26.106) |
Raphael, I am not sure what 'messages' you have heard, but when you say that their teachings lead you away form relationship with God, what teachings are these? Could you give me some specific examples of teachings that you have heard that tried to 'lead you away from your relationship with God'? Cultbuster says that he reads 'God, God, God in all of this.' How can Cultbuster hear nothing but God, God, God in all of their teachings, but you feel their teachings lead one away from God. The absolute continual focus of Congress WBN and its teachings are that we become conformed to the character of the Lord Jesus Christ. I quote from their website regarding their core values and faith foundations: "The end of the journey is the Church achieving perfection, being conformed to the character of Christ; the personal return of Christ and the attaining of immortality." That is nothing but Ephesians 4.13-16 and Hebrews 6.1-2 put into today's language. The end or goal of the Church and its believers is the achieving of perfection (telios) and being conformed to the character of Christ, which will take us to the Second Coming at which time this mortal body will put on immortality, for we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15). Sorry, nothing our Lord in all of this. You are mistaken, mis-informed, or intentionally trying to mislead. I trust it is one of the former two. | ||
| Bubble Burster (172.134.223.136) |
The wbn and their phony apostles proclamations reads like the communist manisfesto. They just substitute God for "the state". Read between the lines and the message is revolution. Not spiritual, but political. These rastafarians must be smoking too much ganja to come up with that crap. The end of the journey is not the church but the individual. Trying to acheive a church reaching perfection is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. Like trying to herd cats. Ain't gonna happen. No matter how much ganja you smoke. We are responsible to God as individuals for our souls. A man will never reach perfection in a lifetime. That is why we need a savior. If we could, like Buddhists think they can, we would not need Jesus. These bodies will not take on immortality, but through Christ our souls can. Put down the bong, listen to the Holy Spirit and stop listening to this island pseudo Christianity. This is way out of balance. This is a cult. Work on your own relationship with God. Forget about being a drone for these charlatans. If everyone involved stopped sending these kooks money, they would go back to fishing and growing ganga. Carribean religions are as wierd as their politics. Your right. Your church is a cult. Get a life. Find Christ. | ||
| My Church Is A Cult (64.12.117.20) |
Haven't sent them a dime Ephesians 4 clearly defines the goal of the journey not as simply individualistic Christianity, but 'until we all' The Holy Spirit is wanting to do His job, to bring the Church to a place of being 'without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing' The Bible clearly says that 'this perishable must put on imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 15.43) Please take a basic Bible College class to learn about these things. Jesus' own body, scars and piercings and all was the same body that was resurrected. "Through Christ our SOULS can take on immortality"?? Huh? That is a heresy that was dealt with in the 4th and 5th centuries. Our souls don't become immortal, they already are! You are revealing your racist perspective when you say that these Carribean religions are as wierd as their politics. The greatest majority of all true cults come from the United States, not the Carribean. While you are taking Theology 101, please take Church History 101 as well. | ||
| Cult Buster (152.163.101.12) |
If you do know Christ as your Lord and Savior then you will have everlasting life. Those who do not, will perish in hell. 1 Cor. speaks of the spirit, not of the body. You've watched too many Highlander reruns. Duh?! We are not Christ. These bodies will perish. Turn to dust. But our spirits live on. Racist? What are you talking about? Do you believe the rastafarian beliefs? Do you worship King Haile Selasie? That's wierd. Has nothing to do with race. I am not responsible for the soul of someone in my church. I will try to bring them to the Lord. But God will not judge me for your sins and blasphemy. You are talking about perfection which is insanity! Man can not be perfect in this life. A church can not be perfect in this life. We can try. But will never acheive perfection. That is why this cult is insane. So why don't you choose a cult in the United States to be a stooge in, instead of the Caribbean. Are YOU a racist? You are a man worshipper. Cults suck. They suck the life blood of your spirit. I have enough trouble working on my own perfection without trying to be part of some group perfection. My suggestion to you is to take Common Sense 101, then Sanity 101. Then read some Ayn Rand books. Learn about individuality. It will free your spirit from the ol' communist group think. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that these bodies will be immortal. You are scary! | ||
| Anonymous (83.77.77.132) |
To My church is a cult, Quote : "The Bible clearly says that 'this perishable must put on imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.' (1 Corinthians 15.43) " I don't know what you want to say with this verse. This verse refer to the resurection of the deads when Jesus gonna come to bring us with Him in heavens. It's not refering with our body becoming immortal here on earth when we are living. But I don't know what you were wanting to say. I agree that we have to pursue perfection, we have to live holy lifes, we have to have pure heart. But not by our strenght, not by our power, not by our doctrines, not in hearing thousands of sermons, not because we are under the covering of an apostle, not because of our knowledge. But because of Christ, because of His grace, because of His perfect work in us as we lay down our lifes, as we deny ourselve, as we surrender to Him and Him alone. By the power of the Holy-Spirit. As we live in communion with our Savior Jesus-Christ, abiding in Him. And yes it is a problem in modern christianity, we preach no more holiness but worldiness, no more purity but money, etc... Quote : "I am not sure what 'messages' you have heard, but when you say that their teachings lead you away form relationship with God, what teachings are these? Could you give me some specific examples of teachings that you have heard that tried to 'lead you away from your relationship with God'? " -We heard that we were not living the worship in the right way, so no more worship time, period! The time of worship is a time of communion with God, is a time where we can live a relationship alltogether with God, where He can speak to our hearts, directly and through prophetic words. But no more, we are not living it rightly.... -No more prayer time in our services, we heard that we were not living a prayer life who was right. Actually in the sermons they break down everything that a christian live, like if we were all religious, half-dead, hypocrites, double-minded, etc... ok, that was right for some of our brethren, like in any churches, but some of us were living a deep and right relationship with Jesus. - To not point to everything I can just say that in substance they said : "We have to forget everything that we have learned, and be teached again everything in a new way." For me that mean denying Christ, denying all that he has done in me and for me. This approach is heretical for me. God is not a God who bury dead-churches to start news, He is a God who raise from the dead this dead-chruches. So all this things together bring a lot of confusion in the heart of the believers, do you understand? You have to forget your prayerlife, you have to forget worship, you have to forget the exercice of the gifts of the holy-spirit, you have to forget everything and wait that they teach you new things.... that means that in the place to live something intimate with Christ you live something like that : "you go to the church, you just hear hours and hours of sermons who for the most part mean absolutly nothing, and you go back home. And then at home in the place of going to Christ to find rest peace love and the light who show you the way, you are trying to understand what they you have heard before, full of confusion, unable to pray. And little by little you are dead, no more life in Christ, no more abiding in Him. And little by little you are accepting what they are teaching cause you are no more able to think by yourself. Of course, that's my personnal experience, in my church, and perhaps it's not like that everywhere. But through what I have read on this website, I can see that there is a problem everywhere... so sad. To finish for me the thing that is the worst : I heard that it's the leadership (Apostles and prophets) who can receive the revelations, and only them. The christian has just to accept what they are saying. Their are finally building a new catholic church... :-( Certainly you are not going to agree with what I have write, perhaps sometime I have not express myself correctly (english is not my motherlanguage) but I have tried to explain myself the better I was able to do. Raphael | ||
| Anonymous (172.155.121.111) |
You did a great job, Raphael. You came through loud and clear. This is a brainwashing, satanic cult. Stay away! | ||
| Anonymous (4.10.172.241) |
Raphael, You did a very good job on your post. Some of your points are very similar to what I heard in the sermons by a WBN apostle when he frequently visited my former church, in attempts to get the church to join his apostolic network, which is within the WBN itself. The sermons were largely the same content, over and over: We must turn away from and forget all the we've ever known about the church. We must embrace the "new and present truths" and replace all we have ever known with them. The present truths mainly focused on taking dominion over the earth, invading all the present churches and advancing the kingdom with the new "technology". The real catch was, I and others always wondered - to what end? What were we taking dominion for? It was all very focused on the network, bringing people under the apostolic mantle of the network. There is no true and valid anointing and mandate except within the network. Thus, everthing was focused on the network, and by virtue of that, the founding apostle, who according to the WBN website gives the entire network its grace through HIS apostolic mantle. Nobody needs to go through another person's mantle or grace. That is what Jesus is for. He is the only one whose grace we need to go through for our salvation and relationship with God. That is one of the main teachings that is so disturbing about this network. It reminds me of the Catholic beliefs of a church member going THROUGH the priest for confession and relationship with God. Another disturbing thing is their elitist doctrine. Anytime a network, denomination or church claims that they have the only way or only new and present truth, that is a clear sign of danger. The network is very hierarchical in leadership structure. In fact, it is pyramidic, with the founding apostle at the top and other leaders on descending lower levels. In the website and through the messages and personal experiences I've had with the apostle, it is very authoritarian. You do not question the leader, you do not raise concerns or doubts. You are not allowed to voice and hold differing convictions, or you are rebuked or silenced. One other thing I will mention - the apostle from the WBN network who preached at our church in attempts to "recruit" it - displayed some very ungodly characteristics. He made references from the pulpit that bordered on being lewd. He also wanted to keep our pastor in leadership even after he was involved in several illegal and immoral activities and refused to repent. Apparently, once a leader, always a leader, despite what that leader may be doing that is wrong. Indeed, this network is troubled and errant. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.20) |
It's a dangerous cult! | ||
| Walter (64.39.144.184) |
I just went to an "Apostolic Reformation Seminar" sponsored by WBN. I admit I was challenged by many of the things I heard, and I will take it to the Scriptures to "see if these things be so." However, I am very excited because today and yesterday I heard many things which challenged me and I have not been challenged in this way in many years. I think many of us (me and many of the Christians I know) feel that the systems in place in current church structures are not working and that is why we are feeling frustrated. Why not at least examine these things? I am not jumping in right now but all one has to do is look around at the horrible things that are going on in so-called Christian circles to realize that a change is sorely needed. Luther was not perfect but he was surely used of God to bring about the reformation of the 16th century. I did not hear anything heretical in this seminar but I was very challenged. Anybody out there know of any ways to fix the broken system called church in our time? If not, let's let these men teach us some things or, if not, then at least slap us and wake us out of our slumber. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.20) |
Don't be naive. These guys, blasphemers, who self appoint themselves to be apostles (that should be a warning sign to you right there) are not Christians, but communists. They've got you into this group think thing. Work on your own walk with God. We don't need a one world government run united church. That is what they are working for. Read the posts above. Of course, it sounded good on your first visit. Cults always do. Then they slowly suck you in 'til you are their slave. Read their websites. Their just weird. All they care about is world domination, they could care less about your soul. Sure. there are ways to improve the body of Christ. But joining a cult, like these kooks have, is not the answer. | ||
| Anonymous (81.62.134.56) |
Walter, In the beginning in my church I was very happy with what they were teaching, actually they were teaching a lot of stuff that I was myself trying to teach to the church. They were puting their finger on some really bad things that happens in the Church. But.... But finally they show what's wrong with the other churches, but they are not better, I think they are even worst. After a few weeks of their teachings you will see all this bad things related on the differents post above. You know, the problem with the church is not so much about the structure, it's not about the governement of the church, we don't need something new. We need to go back to the Bible, first as individu and finally as a local church, we need to go back to the faith of our fathers, we need a personnal revival and finally a local revival. Not this so-called revival of today, but a true revival who bring sinners to repentance, who bring back the tears in the church, who bring back true prayer and intercession for dying souls, who bring back the true burden of our Lord for this dying world. A revival in our souls who separate us from this world and transform wordly christians in godly christians, who transform selfish christians into dead-to-themself disciples, and so on. Please brethren, don't search for a new thing, but search for Jesus-Christ and Him crucified. Him alone. He is what the church of our age need. He is what our personnal life need. A real Jesus, not the one that we invent ourself to satisfy our own will, but the Jesus-Christ who say : "Deny yourself, take-up your cross and follow me". If you want to hear some truth don't listen to these self-apointed apostles and prophets, but find some sermons from people like Leonard Ravenhill, A W Tozer, Keith Daniel, etc... these kind of people who don't preach something new, but something true from the Word of God. We have to go back on our knees. Raphael ps: Anonymous (4.10.172.241) you did a great job too! Bless you! | ||
| My Church Is a Cult (198.81.26.106) |
If A W Tozer were preaching today, he would be labled as a cult by someone on this site! Walter, read the Word, compare line upon line and precept upon precept. The Lord is moving as he did in many other times to bring the Church back to New Testament accuracy. There is always fight at first from those who do not understand, do not want to change, or are benefiting from the present system. Stay strong in spite of the attacks and persecutions! | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.20) |
What you call attacks and persecutions are warnings and enlightenment to one who is susceptible to being sucked into the darkness of a cult. satan always has a new and improved version of Christianity. If it sounds too good to be true, it's a lie. satan is a liar. satan creates the division and lack of will in the churches today. Then he creates a cult to lure the disillusioned away from poor, but free churches. There he's got you good. In a cult. There the brainwashing begins. You will slowly be pulled away from serving God . You will find yourself serving man. Is that what you want, Walter? | ||
| Anonymous (172.131.136.249) |
A.W. Tozer A Life In Pursuit of God Although A. W. Tozer died in 1963, his life and spiritual legacy continue to draw many into a deeper knowledge of God. Tozer walked a path in his spiritual life that few attempt, characterized by a relentless and loving pursuit of God. He longed to know more about the Savior—how to serve and worship Him with every part of his being. Throughout his life and ministry, Tozer called believers to return to an authentic, biblical position that characterized the early church—a position of deep faith and holiness. "He belonged to the whole church," says James Snyder in the book, In Pursuit of God: The Life Of A. W. Tozer. "He embraced true Christianity wherever he found it." During his lifetime, Tozer pastored several Christian and Missionary Alliance churches, authored more than forty books, and served as editor of Alliance Life, the monthly denominational publication for the C&MA. At least two of Tozer's books are considered spiritual classics, The Pursuit of God and The Knowledge of the Holy—a tremendous accomplishment for a man who never received a formal theological education. The presence of God was his classroom. His notebooks and tools consisted of prayer and the writings of early Christians and theologians—the Puritans and great men of faith. Tozer's conversion to Christianity came when he was seventeen. As a result he gained an insatiable hunger and thirst for the things of God. A cleaned-out area in the family's basement became his refuge where he could pray and meditate on the goodness of God. Tozer once wrote, "I have found God to be cordial and generous and in every way easy to live with." To him the love and grace of Jesus Christ were a recurring astonishment," writes Snydner. Although he had not attended Bible college or seminary, Tozer received two honorary doctorates. He accepted an offer to pastor his first church in West Virginia in 1916. By December 1921, Tozer and his wife, Ada, moved to Morgantown where they had the first of seven children, six boys and a girl. Money was extremely tight in the early days of his ministry. The Tozers made a pact to trust God for all their needs regardless of the circumstances. "We are convinced that God can send money to His believing children—but it becomes a pretty cheap thing to get excited about the money and fail to give the glory to Him who is the Giver!" Tozer never swayed from this principle. Material things were never an issue. Many have said if Tozer had food, clothing, and his books, he was content. The family never owned a car. Tozer, instead, opted for the bus and train for travel. Even after becoming a well-known Christian author, Tozer signed away much of his royalties to those who were in need. His message was as fresh as it was uncompromising. His single purpose in life was to know God personally, and he encouraged others to do the same. He quickly discovered a deep, abiding relationship with God was something that had to be cultivated. While pastoring a church in Indianapolis, Tozer noticed his ministry changing. While he did not depart from the theme of evangelism, God began to lead him into a new phase of ministry. For the first time he began to record his thoughts on paper. This change eventually carved out a place for him as a prolific writer. In 1928, Tozer accepted a call to pastor the Southside Gospel Tabernacle in Chicago, where he remained for thirty years. The church grew from a small parachurch to a full-fledged church. Missions and the deeper life in Jesus Christ were its two primary focuses. "Tozer's sermons were never shallow," writes Snyder. "There was hard thinking behind them, and [he] forced his hearers to think with him. He had the ability to make his listeners face themselves in the light of what God was saying to them. The flippant did not like Tozer; the serious who wanted to know what God was saying to them loved him." Everything Tozer taught and preached came out of the time he spent in prayer with God. It was there that he shut out the world and its confusion, focusing instead only on God. "Our religious activities should be ordered in such a way as to leave plenty of time for the cultivation of the fruits of solitude and silence," wrote Tozer. He realized early in his ministry that Christ was calling him to a different type of devotion—one that required an emptying of self and a hunger to be filled to overflowing with God's Spirit. It was also a devotion that consumed him throughout his life. Leonard Ravenhill once said of Tozer, "I fear that we shall never see another Tozer. Men like him are not college bred but Spirit taught." "God discovers Himself to 'babes,'" wrote Tozer, "and hides Himself in thick darkness from the wise and the prudent. We must simplify our approach to Him. We must strip down to essentials and they will be found to be blessedly few. A. W. Tozer died on Monday, May 12, 1963, almost a week after preaching his last sermon. The pursuit was over, the destination reached. A simple epitaph marks his grave in Akron, Ohio: A. W. Tozer—A Man of God. The wondrous pursuit of God is more than a legacy. It is a way of life passed on to us that we too might experience what A. W. Tozer lived. Have you begun your pursuit of God? Doesn't sound like a cult leader to me. Sounds like a humble man who encouraged Christians to seek God as inividuals, not this group think thing. You lie again, my church...... | ||
| Terry Cooper (195.92.168.167) |
I used to go to a church which aligned itself with WBN. It had visits from Noel Woodroffe and Anderson Williams (? hope that surname is correct).There are some things I would like to flag up. 2 Corinthians 11:3 says, "But I fear lest somehow as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ". I am not accusing anyone or being serpents or deceivers, but I wish to point out that it is possible for our minds to be corrupted, and that they can be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Jesus spoke simply but powerfully. The common people could understand him. I am a university graduate and a tax lawyer, but I had to concentrate simply to understand what the WBN speakers mentioned meant in English when they spoke. It seems to me that they unnecessarily complicated things and you then ask why. My assessment was that the motive was not right. I am sure that WBN are trying to get a point across by showing diagramatically circles of grace or revelation with Noel W in the middle. However, if this is impliedly saying that revelation proceeds from him and that people should look to him or people further up in the hierarchy for revelation, then that is wrong. We must not lose sight of the fact that God can speak through a donkey, and also me and you. He may even say something significant without telling the leaders or those up the hierarchy! The fruit of the holy spirit is amongst other things joy, and I did not see that bubbling out of the speakers I saw (though applying that to my own life...). The church I was in was quite young (majority under 30) and I think they were either "taken in" by what seemed wonderful, or just not sufficiently mature to weigh it. Lord, take out the wrong stuff, bless and increase the true, and protect your people. Terry Coventry UK | ||
| Anonymous (199.75.36.203) |
Hmm... well there are occasions in the bible where the Pharisees did not understand Christ and also when his own disciples were stumped. So I disagree with your first point that somehow if you had to 'work' to understand what was being said it must be wrong. Elijah Centre emphasizes prayer. A list of things that the church will be praying for is given every week and these items are prayed for as a church in small groups and in personal prayer. Personal prayer is emphasized and it is said repeatedly you should be praying in your own life (and not just over the list of things we are praying for as a church). Knowing how to 'breathe on your own' (a phrase that has been used there) is emphasized; that is, 'work out your own salvation.' People are encouraged not only to be receiving in meetings of the church but to actively read the word, worship, pray in your own life so that you are not only strong because of church. People are encouraged to know God for themselves so that no matter where they go and what situations they find themselves in they have a strong personal foundation and can receive strength from the Lord. The last two messages over the last month were on Personal Purity. If this is not about having a solid, personal Christian faith I don't know what is. I read references to rastafarianism and those Caribbean ppl smoking on bongs and their politics. I am embarrassed that Christian people should speak this way. That level of bigotry truly saddens me. What is your (whoever wrote that) experience with Caribbean politics? There are many countries that constitute the Caribbean. Are you suggesting that the politic systems in each of the islands is warped? Are all Caribbean people rastafarians? (Rastafarians are in the MINORITY in every Caribbean country) Is the prevalence of weed smoking among Caribbean people higher than Americans? Please, have some semblance of facts before you speak such folly and do not insult your Caribbean brothers and sisters with such a ridiculous and uninformed caricature of their countries. I am not a proponent for communism however, you need to rise above your culture. Individualism is a highly western notion, alien to some cultures and quite apart from any discussion of religion. So please separate your politics from this discussion. Don't assume western values equal Christian values. And the bible advocates working out your own salvation but also talks of the solitary being put in families, 'having all things in common' (COMMIES!!!), unity of the faith. There is evidently a 'group' component to the faith and the fact that there are local churches in the first place and the fact that 'where two or three are gathered' He is in their midst should demonstrate that. Lastly, there are shepherds and there are sheep. Also did you ever hear 'imitate me as I imitate Christ?' There is nothing wrong with people leading within the church (simply read the bible!). It is incumbent on us to search the scriptures and to test all things and hold fast to what is good. We ought also to clearly read the Word on our own and know the Lord for ourselves. That will however, not negate the need for individuals who shepherd us and who are given oversight to 'watch for our souls.' (17Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you). To have a problem with people receiving revelation and instruction from leaders is basically to say there should not be churches and we should all be at home receiving revelation for ourselves. Again, please simply read the bible which is littered with leaders teaching the people ahd giving them revelation that they received from the Lord and showing them 'the more excellent way.' | ||
| Anonymous (172.160.113.55) |
Nice cult apology, Anon 199. Cults aren't so bad. They make you feel warm and fuzzy..... Not!!!!!!! | ||
| Raphael (193.5.216.124) |
Quoted " Hmm... well there are occasions in the bible where the Pharisees did not understand Christ and also when his own disciples were stumped. So I disagree with your first point that somehow if you had to 'work' to understand what was being said it must be wrong. " hmm... you take an exemple of Jesus speaking in parables to the crowd and them not understanding it. But their ears where closed to fulfill the propheties about this people who hear but don't understand. It's no more something for today. Jesus himself tell his disciples : "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops." Matthew 10:26-27 There is nothing that God speak to his children that must be hide to the crowd, nothing that must be keep only for a elit who have "upgraded their mind". It's a fact that some people can understand something and someone else can't, but it's not the same than the sermons of wbn who are incomprehensible for most of the christians. Often it's meaning absolutly nothing but it's just a sentance very intellectual who make the speaker look very intelligent. But when you take away all the ornament it's look scary. | ||
| Anonymous (137.205.223.38) |
I dont really feel qualified to post here, but I thought I would add my little bit for what it is worth. The church I go to is currently 'forging closer links with WBN' and at first this worried me greatly, as the talks were incomprehensible (im a uni graduate) and seemed to me to resemble worldly 'positive mental attitude' talks, where long words are used as a smokescreen to hide the fact that they are saying very little. My church has taken this on board and gone to great lengths to try and make the language accessable, and i now have fewer problems with this, although the gist of what our church focus now seems to be is to try and create the perfect church, (and in this, i agree that its quote 'like trying to nail jelly to a wall) but, in all things we should strive to be like christ, and although we are never going to achieve that in this world, we are still called to try. The things that still worry me about WBN are their seeming attitude to other churches (although the church i am in still has close links with another local church), the atmosphere of 'the leader is always right', the lack of emphasis on spreading the gospel of christ (although it is 'assumed' that this will be done by friendship evangelism), and i struggle with the concept of one man leading such a large organisation (although he does have a leadership team who he is accountable to). I am planning on staying in this church, and seeing where it goes, as i trust those in leadership whom i know personally and trust their judgement of those they are working with. This doesnt mean that i am going to close my eyes and ignore anything that doesnt sit comfortably. and a quick point about the latter rain movement; I was worried about their open affliation with this group on the website until i looked it up, and the vast majority of websites warning about their evil ways were cessationalist (dunno if thats spelt right), basically people who dont believe in Prophecy etc. The values of the latter rain movement mostly correlated with my own, in that I believe that the Holy Spirit works today, that miracles can happen etc although again one or two of the defining features worried me. | ||
| Anonymous (128.194.115.135) |
Anonymous (137.205.223.38) - I trusted my leadership in my former church, but it didn't turn out well. I truly hope your situation *does* turn out well, though. It's good that you are seeing and acknowledge the warning signs. I hope and pray that God keeps your eyes and ears open to Him to any more signs of caution. I also pray your leaders will see, hear, and use caution when needed, too. God bless and keep you! | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
Get out! | ||
| Anonymous (66.123.61.17) |
It is interesting to hear proclaimed university western-educated trained persons indicating that they cannot understand the language of the preaching of the Congress WBN when all across the world in so-called "lesser-developed" countries people are coming into great understanding and clarity. I believe that the Congress WBN relates to about 600 churches in the Democratic Republic of Congo for example and the growth of the understanding of the people and the evidence of a transformed christian life with powerful evengelistic response is very well documented. Also there has been outreach into Sudan, several countries of the Middle East ( in the midst of Muslim fundamentalism where many preachers are afraid to go)like Iraq for example where the Congress WBN is establishing a center, many African nations where big-name comfortable western preachers do not go - countries like Burkina Fasso, Mali, Republic of Niger where people in depressed circumstances and who are supposed to be " lesser-educated" attend the Breakthrough Schools of Ministry operated by the Congress WBN in about 20 nations around the world. All these people have no problem in understanding the word preached to them. In addition the message of Reformation and the gospel of the Kingdom proclaimed by Dr Woodroffe and the representatives of the Congress WBN is translated into dialects across the world, and into other languages like French, Russian, Spanish, Romanian, Japanese,Bulgarian to mention a few and all the people understand and do not have the problems that you English-speaking western educated people seem to have. What then is the problem? The Bible says that wisdom is justified by her children. In another place "By their fruit you shall know (identify and discern) them". The reports of new maturity, christian growth, transformed churches, salvation among many thousands, healings and saved marriages, invigorated leadership, impacted communities and indeed many tired and dissillousioned pastors that have been re-charged and encouraged back into the ministry come from all parts of the world. Did you people even read the websites and hear the values expressed by the leadership of the Congress WBN? Did you go to the Elijah centre site? Did you even order and listen to the teachings, read the books on prayer , church development and prophetic ministry written by Dr Woodroffe. Did you read the book The Ultimate Warrior which is one of the best books I have read on personal holiness and the balanced, vital christian life? Do you realize how much inaccuracy and foolishness you have spouted in these comments that can be disproved by simply getting the real information? Why not visit his home base in Trinidad, Caribbean, as many leaders from around the world do and talk to and see the lifestyles of the people who are beiing built up in Christ there. I have been there personally and I have been amazed at the level of understanding in even the children as they are taught the ways of the Lord. The youths in Trinidad base are beyond compare! Their men's ministry Hebron is filled with men that any church in the world would want to have. Amaziing men of commitment and purpose. The women of Elijah Centre are all leaders and absolutely excellent examples of Christ-centred womanhood! I have been there and this report is absolutely true. You can go for yourself and seee for yourself. They welcome visitors and even arrange acces for them to various groups so they can prove the value of the ministry for themselves. The emphasis in Elijah Centre is on the reality of the holy walk of faith. That is emphasized in almost every service and especially when Dr Woodroffe is home from a trip. If that church is an expression of his quality and teachings then he MUST be doing something very good indeed! IN addition I understand that the Congress is involved in advancing the Kingdom in practical ways around the world - for example developing a leadership institute in Haiti; projects in Kenya; work against AIDS in West Africa; in a deprived community in Trinidad itself. The Congress WBN also connects ot Aborigines in Australia, Maoris in New Zealand, Ketchi Indians in Guatemala and other forgotten groups. In any global work there could be misrepresentation by a few. I do not doubt that soome people misrepresent the good name and values of Dr Woodroffe and the Congress but then some of the coments, attitudes, bitter values on this site misrepresent Christ himself and yet Christ is untarnished and TRUE. I hope that this takes this discussion which had had its low points and high points to a new level of sober thinking, purity of heart and balanced approach. If you are uninformed it is better to withhold judgment, investigate carefully and then speak or not to speak at all. | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.44.62) |
Wow, you make your cult sound so wonderful! I can't wait to join and get my brainwashed. Wash away my memories of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Who needs those three guys when you've got Dr. Woodroffe? When I am blessed to meet him, I will just fall flat on the floor, grovel up to him and kiss his feet! Wow, thanks for enlightening me. Who needs an invisible God when we have God in the flesh in the body of Dr. Woodroffe? NOT!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| InChrist (151.200.152.169) |
anonymous 172, that was a very childish response why dont you give the people a chance to tell you what really is going on. | ||
| Anonymous (208.131.172.149) |
There is a distinct connection between the quality of our sighting of God and his Kingdom, and the concentrated efforts of the "god of this age" to limit and prevent sight. Anonymous 172 et. al, perhaps you might wish to ask God to "open your eyes". | ||
| jeffrogers (134.139.21.48) |
I recently applied for membership in a CWBN church. The teaching has all been biblical and the praise Rocks. The church is evaluating me as we all know there are "ravenous wolves" about. Of course, it's obvious that I am not blindly accepting the churches' authority but am walking forward with my eyes open. | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.199) |
Really, really immature and stupid response Anon 172! Compared to the measured and mature responses of the defenders of the Congress WBN you really sound unspiritual and shallow - just like a ranter and raver and not a very good representation of Jesus. Do you think that he would sound like you!!!! I DEFINTIELY THINK NOT! I am going to check out the Congress WBN and see what value there is there for my spiritual growth. I definitely like the mature and serious way they sound!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.199) |
Anti-Christ Idiots!!! | ||
| Anonymous (172.148.62.15) |
I feel I am very spiritual in depth. But I have read every post here. I have read every site of congress/wbn....... and I have discerned all of this to be a DANGEROUS MAN WORSHIPPING CULT! To be naive enough to get sucked into this satan's trap shows a serious disconnection to the Holy Spirit. GET OUT! | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.199) |
C'mon Anon 172 why don't you write Woodroffe and ask him questions personally so you can clear up your issues. Do the Biblical thing. You maight be totally wrong you know! | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.199) |
Then come back here and tell us what he said! | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.199) |
Just copied this off the Kingdom Community Network site. This apostolic network is part of the Congress WBN which was founded by Woodroffe. The section The Importance of Team was put as one of their Operating values. ******* The Importance of Team Eccl. 4:9-12 Team life provides: Protection against enemy attack (v12); Pooling of resources (v11); Encouragement and mutual support (v10). Magnification of the reward (v9). There are five (5) important areas of consideration: Issues of mutual respect between and among team members Recognition of the reality of collective responsibility The assumption of the position of individual accountability The demand for reciprocal, correlative or mutual response to each other The requirement for maximum productivity according to individual measure ******* Does not sound like a "Man Worshipping Cult" as Anon 172 said. Seems like they push the idea of collectivity and team operations. All of you can check the sites: www.kcnetwork.org www.elijahcentre.org www.congresswbn.org | ||
| Anonymous (172.136.89.2) |
I've read that also. Smacks of "collectivism". (communism). I am speaking to Noel Woodroffe. He is on this board. I have asked him questions. All I get in return is collectivism psycho-babble. "Protection from enemy attack." So anyone who questions the authority or propiety of this self proclaimed apostle is the enemy? Proof right there, this is a cult. Get Out! | ||
| Anonymous (203.118.133.195) |
Poor 172 - "enemy" - is the spiritual enemy against whom we all fight. You really have no understanding do you? Read what Paul said about us fighting against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the high places.!!! Enough for you . You have been exposed as empty, sarcastic,lacking knowledge and a love for the truth. Everyone now sees you for what you are - a tiny bitter person who really needs God in a big way. Shalom. | ||
| Anonymous (172.208.62.39) |
Poor 203. That's some creative name calling, man worshipper. How does Noel's buttocks smell. You've got your nose up there pretty deep. I've read what Paul has written. But Noel is no Paul. When I read him writing enemy, I read his enemies, not God's. I love the truth. And I don't read the truth in any of this wbn/congress cult crap. Write me off all you want. Slander me, call me names all you want. I will continue to be the fly in the cult ointment. This thread was started by someone who considered this group to be a dangerous cult. Others have testified so. I have done objective research and decided that it is exactly as described. A dangerous satanic cult. I concur with the starter of this thread. Yet, you are here to defend it. If you really want to try to defend it. Go down the list of the Factnet definition of a cult and tell me why it is not a cult. Looking for your requested response. | ||
| zena (200.108.5.109) |
TO ALL THE ANONYMOUS WRITERS. You are all COWARDS. Both spiritually and in the flesh,if you are so sure of what you are saying why do you want to remain ANONYMOUS | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
For one reason, because on the internet I am allowed to do one thing I cannot do at work. Discuss politics or religion. If someone I work with visits this site, it could create a possible antagonistic situation at work, if I'm using my name while discussing somebody at work's religion or sect. | ||
| Anonymous (62.167.216.84) |
why you guys are allways fiting? | ||
| Anonymous (172.138.21.33) |
Capitalist Christians and Man Worshipping Communists are always at odds. Which side are you on? | ||
| 62 (62.167.182.43) |
Does any one believe in spiking in tongs? is it from God! | ||
| Inchrist (64.8.198.170) |
172 i think your last post exposed something about you, why dont you do some self reflection , As Christ said , Take the log out of your eye before you tell someone else that they have a flint. sorry to Write this directly to youbut you have me concerned. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.13) |
I am not a cult leader or member. I am not a control freak. I am not decieving people to enrich myself with material, worldly possessions. To speak against a satanic invasion of the body of Christ is a Christian's duty. Why aren't you doing yours? Do you serve man or Christ? | ||
| Simon (212.152.4.15) |
So 172 you're a capatilist Christian!!! wow, so you're exploiting everything, anything and all those around you to obtain as much as possible for yourself, building up your own fortune, finding ways to get richer and richer at the expense of others, keeping it all for yourself, wathcing as your barn gets fatter and fatter, and when there is too much, you just build bigger barns. After all that is what being capatalist is all about. So in other words you're a self centered, greedy, who always wants more Christian! | ||
| Simon (212.152.4.15) |
Also 172 from reading other posts you believe that anyone who follows a leader is worshipping man, so that must mean that you do not attend a church of any shape or form, are accountable to no-one, accept teaching and correction from no one, because to do so would be worshipping man. Common 172 myself and my brothers from CWBN have tried to post biblical based posts on the doctrinal position of the network we belong to, exposed ourselves to anyone who cares to read our posts, have defended our spiritual Father Dr Noel Woodroffe, and all you have done is attack, insult, slander and made baseless and factless claims of what CWBN is. So show us a bit about yourself, what you believe! or are you too ashamed, are you scared that what you would reveal about yourself will show yourself to be nothing but a charlaten who is in greater darkness then those you are spitefully accusing. If this is not the case and I have completely misunderstood who you are, then prove me wrong by posting some mature, intelligent biblical evidence as to why CWBN is all that you claim it to be. And what you believe to be the truth. I wait with eager anticipation. | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
First of all, you show your political side by your definition of capitalism. That is a communist definition. If it wasn't for capitalism, then we wouldn't be able to communicate with these computers we use. Capitalism is the most perfect form of economics man has ever devised. It is not perfect but from what we know and have tried it is the best system ever. Mercantilism failed. Feudalism failed. Socialism failed. Communism failed. Capitalism succeeds where all others fail. Capitalism gives us the best standard of living, new technologies, new and improved mousetraps, etc. and freedom to boot. Wherever you are in the world, whatever standard of living you have, you have what you have (not what you have not) because of capitalism. No matter who you are, what you have, where you are, you can succeed in capitalism. And you can bless others with jobs, good services and products. Whenever capitalism is not pure, via government tampering, blending with failed econimic systems and heavy taxation, people lose. I ask each day that God will bless me so that I may be a blessing to others. If it is a choice between making more money for myself or doing something that would bless someone else, I choose the latter. Like you said, you don't know me. But I refuse to call anyone an Apostle. The only apostles were the original 12. Anybody else who takes that title is a fraud and allows themselves to be worshipped as being closer to God than others. Drop that appellation. It is cultic. Yes I go to church and I listen to a good minister. When I disagree with what he says, I tell him so. Do I think he is annointed, appointed, godly, man of God, apostle....... no more than me. This cult you are in is not of God. It uses non biblical language to attack capitalism, freedom and the Christian Church. It is all ego based and like all other of satan's attempts to attack the body of Christ it will fail, just like communism. GET OUT! | ||
| Simon (212.152.4.15) |
I would like to thank you for your response, it was a pleasure to read. However I do not agree with your conviction on CWBN, and you do not agree with mine, no matter how much we debate over this, this will not change. I do agree with your definition of Capitalism. I was being deliberately provocative in my previous post, and the definition I gave is not at all what I believe capitalism to be. Again I thank you for your response. Simon | ||
| issachar (issachar) New member Username: issachar Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 203.194.34.227 |
An 66; I would like to think that most people would agree that the easiest places to fish for membership for cults or borderline christian groups is exactly those under-developed countries where people are ignorant (literal sense). To equate the number of churches joining the WBN from these countries to people who seriously have the ability or knowledge to stand back and evaluate carefully the doctrines they are subscribing to is in itself ignorant. It is these same countries that have destructive civil conflicts just for this reason. They believe anything and someone came along and told them that this is true or that is true and you must do either this or that, often stirring those people to even kill others who they may have known all their life. Having myself attended WBN lectures and read material published also, in my opinion, it is quite difficult and confusing to make sense of a lot of it and much is half said or suggested rather than taught clearly and it seems that those who claim to understand to the point of being able to actually pass it on, have been through many hour of teaching/indoctrination. Not a healthy sign. | ||
| franklin (franklin) New member Username: franklin Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Just like communist and facist brainwashing. You repeat a lie often enough, soon people begin to believe it. | ||
| seamaiden (seamaiden) New member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 164.106.6.156 |
OK Anonymous (172.208.44.62) you have one more time to call my community a cult, after that we will go round and round. as for us being an elitist group, that is not true, its not our fault that we can walk upright in the fullness of God and not be ashamed. there is a balance that comes with that too. and as for calling my community in Trini rastafarians...WHAT THE??? | ||
| hipstad (hipstad) New member Username: hipstad Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 59.167.37.132 |
Yeah..know about WBN. My kids school, through its associated AOG church became affiliated witht this Network in 2003. I started to investigate when I saw some worrying things on the website. The Schools P&C sent letters to the WBN to the head honcho..self proclaimed Apostle "DR Wooodroffe", wanting to know more..questioning some doctrinal issues. They received some very arrogant replies. In short this is a weird group bordering on an Apostolic cult. (Puts Roman Catholicism to shame, in some areas ) They are "Latter rain/manifest Sons of God" groupies. (which for those who dont know was a heretical movement born out of Pentecostalism in 50`s). Their agenda is to usher in Christs return....by taking control of the earth for Christ (very biblical..not).(but in reality they seem rather more parasitic..infecting /take over other churches. They think they are Gods "elite", leading the Church to "victory".) One of their aims is to undermine the written word by preaching what they beleive are "relevent" words for today..throught their "prophets'. They talk of "frequencies" "wavelengths" in their special communications with God. (of which the Apostles and Prophets are attuned more than the rest). Many of their doctrines/explanations are nothing but Christianised gibberish. #####BEWARE>>>BEWARE########. (Message edited by hipstad on February 01, 2006) | ||
| pablobestez (pablobestez) New member Username: pablobestez Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 62.255.32.17 |
I heard a very disturbing preach from one of their main prophets who expounded on corinthians 2 "I laid a foundation as a master builder". His basic thinking was that the apostle paul had access to the blueprints of the foundation of church. Therefore, Noel as an apostle also has access to information and insight which is allowing him to be the "multi-faceted grace of God on earth". If the "prophet" had cared to read the conclusion of the scripture he would read that immediately following that scripture it says "but no-one can lay any foundation other than that which is already laid, Christ Jesus". So the Apostles are appointed to bring the freedom that is in christ Jesus which is freely accessible through Jesus and the word of God. Not to bring some new revelation of Dominionism. Also, being trained in Psychology, NLP and in particular persuasion technology (marketing, counselling, hypnosis etc) this particular strain of christianity is full of what is very close to brainwashing. | ||
| pablobestez (pablobestez) New member Username: pablobestez Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 62.255.32.17 |
If you're currently experiencing 'crossing over' in your church, please ask the questions: - what effect is CWBN having on realtionships in your church (does emphasis on 'strategic relationships', unquestioning obedience (and therefore hierarchical structure) and productivity effect the relationships with your friends, if so how?) - why all the language? acronyms, 'in speak' (ie mechanical metaphors etc.) Did not Jesus speak in the language of the people he was talking to (almost slang in some cases). Why then are we required to plough confusing psychobabble. Are we not at risk of putting barriers up to accessing God? - What do you think about the statement made by a CWBN leader stating "Noel Woodruff is the multifaceted grace of god on earth" - Is that Gut reaction you have because God is challenging you through what is preached, or because the holy spirit is warning you....? - Are there self fulfilling prophecies used to strengthen the idea that Gods truth is being revealed (for instance in one church I know of Noel said "many people will leave the church when you go through crossing over. Don't be alarmed though. This is a seperation that needs to happen so that the strong can remain standing" erm.. the truth in the church that I know of was that more than half the church left. Because God had revealed to them that something was wrong. But because this self fulfilling prophecy was given, it in fact became a reinforcement. This is the level of deception that is happening! I do not believe that CWBN or it's members are deliberately trying to confuse or decieve people. I do however believe that they are. In short , CWBN is a Human understanding of a Spiritual concept and as such is trying to apply a business model to a church structure. They are incompatible. One focuses on achieving, works and success the other on grace, relationship and faith. God doesn't want employees. He wants servants, brides + worshippers.. | ||
| ontheroad (ontheroad) Intermediate Member Username: ontheroad Post Number: 176 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 128.194.115.135 |
Pablobestez, Thank you very much for your insightful posts. I have heard one of the "apostles" in this network speak on several occasions, and each time his sermons were off - way off. It was the same garbled language you referred to: creating a new breed of humanity, new technology, new DNA, the "now" word, new frequencies....the whole gamut. This same "apostle" tried to incorporate my ex-church into the network. At the same time, alot of errors and sins were coming to light about my ex-pastor. The "apostle" chose to berate those of us who were raising concerns about the pastor and lectured us on "not touching God's anointed" and told us we were out of order for even discussing our concerns. He also chose to look the other way and was dismissive over the concerns, which were serious, including how the pastor embezzled alot of money from the church (there was PROOF), how he had an illicit relationship with one of the members (there was proof here too) and how he illegally obtained prescription painkillers many times (proof here too). None of this seemed to matter as much as the fact that the office of pastor was being questioned. Instead, the "apostle" instructed the pastor say a short generic apology, without any specifics, and that sufficed for him to stay in the pulpit. I also witnessed some of the workings of their rigid hierarchical structure you discussed, which starts at the top with Noel Woodroffe dispensing his "apostolic grace" down the network levels, with the apostles on each level holding higher revelations and truth than each succeeding level. Their rank and file type of structure is serious stuff to them. This link is to a page from the website of one of CWBN' sectors, Kindgom Community Network website and it is pretty revealing regarding their stance on receiving new truths and added revelations and "core apostolic grace", etc. http://www.kcnetwork.org/about/beliefs.asp (Message edited by ontheroad on March 06, 2006) | ||
| setfree1000 New member Username: setfree1000 Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
I wanted to congratulate Onetheroad and pablobestez for keeping the spotlight on this Group. I remember being part of a Group that held meetings in Europe. this Group was an arm of the Congress and one of their leaders said the most alarming thing which was never condemmed by the 'Super Apostle.' He said that just as God took Noah and used his DNA for a new race in the earth, so too will he take the Spiritual DNA of the Congress members for his kingdom. In other words God was about to forsake mandkind and build his future purposes through the Congress. The Senior Apostle of the Congress came to Europe and told a group of leaders and I quote, 'WBN Congress is the fastest growing and largest apostolic network in the earth and that basically means me.' I will make no coment and let the readers judge the coment for themselves. As a former member of this Church I can only warn people to run as far away as possible. | ||
| setfree1000 New member Username: setfree1000 Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 81.159.171.156 |
I mentioned this before but it seems to have disappeared on the board. It is vitally important that readers know the truth about this church. These are factual accounts of what I have personally witnessed. If a young lady happens to have fallen pregnant out of wedlock and it comes to the attention of the Super Apostle (Woodroffe). He will make the girl stand on the pulpit and ask her parents to stand before the chruch. The parents will be told they failed and are a disgrace while the girl will be savaged in front of the chruch. She will be told she has done like Aiken and hid uncleaness in her tenth, brining the community into danger. Now if this is not a public stoning then what is. Thank God The virgin Mary was not a member (point being God could still use the child). Are we back in the old testament times? What about love, forgiveness and compassion? When i asked for an explanation one of their leaders told me it was necessary as a means of lifiting up a certain level of fear in the house. This would ensure that others did not fall into sin. If you disagree with them and their theology and dear crticise the Super Apostle they will cast you out like a leper and call you unclean. Despite this members refer to Woodroffe as the multifaceted grace of God on earth. These things are very worrying to say the least. | ||
| ontheroad Intermediate Member Username: ontheroad Post Number: 174 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 128.194.115.135 |
SetFree - Thank you for your comments and for bringing up to light some of the atrocities done by this group. People do need to be aware of this destructive organization, for it is spreading worldwide and gaining momentum in many areas, not just spiritual, but financial and educational as well. It is sad and scary. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
ATROCITIES??? What atrocities have been brought to light?? Nothing. Did they kick the girl out of the church? Did they make her pay them all kinds of money?? What, where are the atrocities. I have asked many times for you all to inform me what is so sad and scary about this group. And this is it?? Well as I have heard more about them nothing seems so bad. I guess I will have to find out for myself and go find out where I can see someone representing them. | ||
| ontheroad Intermediate Member Username: ontheroad Post Number: 176 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 128.194.115.135 |
So then, I take it that you approve of public humiliation and shaming? And I take it you also approve, among other things, an authoritarian, hierarchical leadership; unquestioned submission to authority; being under the covering and "apostolic grace" of the leader; "new" and changing revelation claiming to be on par with the Bible; planning for global financial control under the control and decisionmaking of a heirarchical leadership; disallowance of questions and disagreement with leadership by members; and a claimed mandate from God to change the rest of the church world to be a new breed of humanity with a "new DNA" based on revelation claimed by leadership? | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
All I'm saying is that the warnings about how dangerous they are and the anectdotal "evidence" don't match. The story about the pregnant girl is not told from an eyewitness account. I believe this type of thing should be addressed in front of the church. You call it public humiliation, but you or the other guy who posted it wasn't there. Unquestioned submission to authority?? Well on that one I think it has to come down to what is that authority doing and saying. I mean you guys aren't coming up with stories about them stealing people's homes or life savings. They aren't getting girls pregnant. They talk really weird and have a view of the church taking the dominion and rule the Lord told us to take. Honestly, the church in America today is missing a hierarchy. Everybody does what they want and if they crash and burn or live in hidden sin for years, oh well. I'm not saying everything these guys have to say is on point. But, what harm are they doing?? I still haven't seen any atrocities. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
For the record curious george, the accout was from an eye witness. I doubt this would affect you as you seem bent on defending the indefensible. I suppose you agree that the God will now abandon the Human race as the Congress have the spirutal DNA he requires for His purposes. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
Dude, it is obvious that the account was not from an eye witness. He leaves out details and just the way he tells it it is obviously no an eyewitness account. If you believe that then you need just as much help as these people you are talking about. Not only that but I ain't defending nothing. I don't care what people do and say if they ain't hurting anyone. These guys don't seem to be hurting anyone. That's what I keep asking WHAT ATROCITIES!!??!!?? I don't care if someone call himself the man in the moon, is it so bad if someone believes it? I looked at their web site and it doesn't seem to me they are saying that God is abandoning the human race. BUT, if that was what they believe, as long as they are not telling people to sell their homes and abandon their families because of it, big whoopy. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1691 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
Curious George, cult apologist. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.105.253.185 |
Hi, Franklin. Glad to see you have joined the fray. Maybe you can identify the ATROCITIES going on here. Nobody else seems to be able to illustrate anything horrendous. Sure WBN is wierd and full of hot air. Their doctrine is not traditional, but c'mon dude!! | ||
| ontheroad Intermediate Member Username: ontheroad Post Number: 178 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.113.231.84 |
Curious_George, What is your reason for being defensive or protective of Congress WBN? I did a message search by your name for the last 30 days and the only thread in the Religious Cults and Sects boards you seem to be posting on is this one, about Congress WBN. Do you have a particular interest in this group or a reason why you keep posting on this thread to defend the group? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 86.135.34.133 |
I suspect curious george may be the super apostle himself or one of his agents. By pretending to be silly (word use in a pleasant context) he is trying to deflect from the stench that is obvious by the revelations made about this cult. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 86.135.34.133 |
I wonder what curious george would think if I mentioned that this group has been raising finances since 1993 for a building fund. I should know as I have contributed thousands of dollars over the years. They were due to construct a church with the money however evey year there was always a problem with the land or deed for the building. It dawned on me that in 13 years they are still leasing their current premises and have not built a thing to my knowledge. In 1996 the fund was annonced to be over $ 1 Million. God only knows how much it is today. I am in no way implying anything dishonest but simply giving the facts. I was laughed at by some work colleagues when they asked ' so did they ever build the building?' In answering the question I realised that in the 13 years since they started, I have had a few kids, bought 4 properties of my own while they are still renting. Again no implications of dishonesty from me. I do get annoyed however when some people are able to spend over $200,000 for relatives to do MBAs in the best European Business Schools while the average person struggles through life. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1695 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
I have looked at wbn and this phony apostle for over a year. I have read their websites and found most of it to read like communist propaganda and of a confusing context and sentence structure that is familiar to all cultic writings. My gut reaction and what I perceive to be discernment from the Holy Spirit is this is a dangerous mind control cult with megalomaniac intentions of world political infiltration and conquest. All we need in this world is another tin horn dictator who self proclaims himself to be an apostle. When I read or hear of any Christian claiming to be an apostle then I smell a man worshipping cult. This is what I discern. And I hate man worshipping, self elevation and cults. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
TO on the road: This thread has been the only one that has interested me because it is the one of the few in this forum I had no previous knowledge of. I have seen a vehemence that I merely want to understand. This CWBN seems to be a some what new group so I want to be well informed and prepared for any encounters with them. I don't see where I have defended anything. I'm just CURIOUS. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
To anonymous505050: Yea, I'm the super apostle. But, your mention of the building fund, while repeatedly stating no charge of dishonesty, is what I am trying to get at. What is so dangerous?? That's all I'm saying. Lighten up a bit, dude. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
I knew that one would flush the 'fox out of its lair.' The sentence construction resembles the leader i know. Well everything I said is factual and with no intention to question anyone's integrity. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
You're funny, 5050!! Dude, I want someone's integrity's to be questioned if need be. Your facts may very well be accurate. But where is the danger?? Churches all around the world spend millions on buildings. Where is the danger. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
You do not seem to be playing with a full deck of cards mate. Think I will leave you to your folly. Later Dude! | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
Just as I thought there is no danger. You are speaking of what you think not of what you know. As most of us do. Thanx for the input 505050. You've been helpful. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1710 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
So curious, are you a Christian? If so what do you think of someone calling themselves an apostle? | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1711 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
So curious, are you a Christian? If so what do you think of someone calling themselves an apostle? | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
Yes, I am a Christian. I find someone calling himself an apostle no different than someone calling himself pastor, reverened, prophet, bishop, evangelist...... all apostle means is one sent by God. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1724 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
I beg to differ. The original 12 were apostles. They knew Christ. He taught them. Commanded them. Who they hell is this Noel guy? Where does he come off proclaiming himself to be an apostle. There is a hell of a lot of difference between a pastor and an Apostle. Someone calling themselves an apostle is just looking to be elevated and worshipped by the gullible cultees he lords over. Biggest problem with cults is that they set up a human intermediary between them and God. Like as if he is closer to God than others. That is Christ's role and only Christ's role. Down with man worshipping. Screw this guy Noel! He's a con artist! | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
Dear Curious George, As you appear to be someone with understanding of church matters can I ask a few questions please. What are your views of Love in the body of Christ. I mean Love is the most powerful dimension of God that there is. Let be more specific as I do not want you redfining love and going into the Congress 'gibrish.' Do you think people should be treated with respect? Do you bleieve that having a higher 'rank' than someone allows us to verbally abuse and humuliate them? Do you think it is ok to call people unclean and cursed for life? Do you think it acceptable to call pentecostals 'idiots and backward?' I ask these things Curious George because it is easy for some to speak of 'new positions in the spirit,' about global dynamics in the church etc however lack the basic love for people. Does not Corinthians teach us that whitout love, everything else is futile? | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
To 505050: Of course I think people should be respected. No one should verbally abuse anyone, regardless of rank or position. I do think it is ok to call someone unclean if they have involved themselves in uncleanliness. But, probably not in front of people, depending upon the understanding of the congregation. In other words if people are part of a church and they understand that if they get caught up in something that it will be made public, then I think that's a persons choice to be part of that church. Cursed for life?? I don't think so, I'd have to know the context. To call pentacostals idiots and backwards ain't cool, I also would like to know the context that was said. Not to excuse anything, I just know that quotes taken out of context can be misleading. | ||
| curious_george New member Username: curious_george Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
To Franklin: Your anger is puzzling to me. I have asked you guys many times to let me in all the horrible atrocities these guys have done to people. I mean if Mr Woodroffe is wanting to be elevated, what is his gain?? I have seen the web site and he's not selling blessed hankies and annoiting oils we see many of these guys on TV doing. He's not holding conferences with entrrance fees of $100's of dollars. You said yourself they lease their property. He's down there in a little insignificant island....do you disagree that an aposlte merely means one sent by God?? If you do not then how can you be so upset about him using that title. I've seen all the arguments about the fact that they are no longer needed in the earth since the church has been established. I also have seen all the arguments justifying the use of the word. My point and question still is WHAT ARE THEY DOING THAT MAKES THEM SO DANGEROUS??? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 86.135.38.176 |
The Danger may not be evident from looking at a website. The danger is when you find yourslelf under a powerful influence that is extremely controlling and makes it impossible to question or to leave. I am not speaking about a man I am speaking about a spirit. Many of the organisations that are called 'cults' apppear very mainstream. It is their behaviour that sets them apart. I will not win this argument and do not intend to. Maybe you could lecture me on the power of God to forgive and his requirements on His people to do the same. This requirement is regardless of the perceieved offender 'repenting.' Maybe you could help me understand the Love of God and how He evaluates humans. Thats why he chose 12 and some were fishermen. Thats why some of the greatest saints were murderers etc. | ||
| curious_george_1 New member Username: curious_george_1 Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
To 505050: (it's the same guy I forgot my password so I registered again) There is no argument to win. You came on here talking about this relatively new dangerous cult. I wanted some more concrete info. You or no one else has shown how this cult is impossible to leave. I have found quite the contrary to be true. This board has postings from several people who USED TO belong to a WBN churches.....the point of my inquiries was to get more information just in case some one I know or even any of my family members comes in contact with WBN I could speak intelligently about them. You say you are talking about a spirit, how do you know?? Have you sat in on their meetings and if so tell me more not just this abstract stuff you've put out here. | ||
| curious_george_1 New member Username: curious_george_1 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 64.0.141.12 |
To Franklin: Were Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Pricilla, Aquila, etc. apostles?? | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1732 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
All who were mentioned in the Bible as as apostles are. We can not confirm whether anyone since is or isn't because nobody knows that person's heart and motives except God. "do you disagree that an aposlte merely means one sent by God??" I do not know if Woodroofe was sent by God. Nobody does. He should not use that title. Period. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1733 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
All who were mentioned in the Bible as as apostles are. We can not confirm whether anyone since is or isn't because nobody knows that person's heart and motives except God. "do you disagree that an aposlte merely means one sent by God??" I do not know if Woodroofe was sent by God. Nobody does. He should not use that title. Period. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.46.225 |
This discussion to me is futile. The members of the Congress has allowed the leader to elevate himself to the position of mediator between God and man. The leader speaks of reformation but he has not fully understand what Luther accomplished. Pre Luther the church was in decay and filled with corruption. The Priest was the only one with the 'word' and everyone had to wait until he brought the revelation. Thankfully the invetion of printing allowed the masses to access truth for themselves. The leader of the congress has gone back to pre Luther times in that he alone has final authority on revelation. Although the members of congress have bibles their minds have been grooved into a position of subservience where they just rubber stamp every new wind of doctrine coming forth from the house. The church is under the influence of religious spirits and this has resulted in the opression felt by some. You are not even allowed to choose your own friends. You have to be assigned to a group chosen by leadership. Your social meetings have to be recorded and the leaders given a report. This under the guise of the body ministering to itself. The behaviour is cultic and results in the perception by many that it is indeed a cult. The leader does not understand how to use power. If you have a disagreement with him his modus operandi is to run to the congregation, say the most awful things about you and then instruct his 'sheep' to not speak to you for the rest of your life. That is poor use of power. Potiphar could have said that since Joseph offended his wife all interaction with Joseph would cease for all times. This would have been silly and left no room for reconcilliation. When Joseph came into power Potiphar would have seemed very unwise (probably did seem so in any case). | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1735 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.9.60 |
It's a cult! | ||
| ontheroad Intermediate Member Username: ontheroad Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 128.194.115.135 |
505050, You raised some very good points. I, for one, very much appreciate your posts here and the insights you have. I agree 100% with your assessment of this cultic organization. It matches up with my experiences and knowledge of it exactly. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
Thanks ontheroad for the encouragement. I decided that rather than suffer in silence like happened in the past, it may be more useful to readers to state the facts on here. I will not be disrespectful or use hearsay but give it as it happened. The ministry is very versed in shadows and types. This is fine however anything taken too far lands us in dangerous waters. The leader of the congress started talking about Noah. He said he finally understood the technology of Noah who he says was able to 'craft something in the earth that no one could relate to. Something that could sustain life.' I shook my head in agreement as at the time of Noah, no one knew about rain and the ark could sustain physical life. The leader of the Congress then flies people in from all over the world for a seminar called 'what does the ark look like.' After a few days the group presented their findings to the church. The ark suddenly became the Congress and the thing got weird from there. One of the leaders flew into Europe and told his group that God put some revelations on his heart that was on the cutting edge and for the future. The new theory that one came up with was that as God used Noah's DNA for a new race he will now use the spiritual DNA of the cogress for the new breed of christians. This whole thing started with the leader and ends up into weird twisted theology that satisfies the elites who think God favous them above everyone else. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Does anyone have information on Steve Schultz, who is associated with Noel Woodruffe? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.129.251.158 |
Or Scott Webster who has been described as a Global prophet. He does not appear to be a significant voice in the US or anywhere else for that matter. He is however the congress' major prophetic voice and has now changed his church name to EC Embassy Atlanta. (It was Scott Webster's devine prophetic utterances that led to the use of the term embassies). Now the church has a Senate, a President and embassies. Whats next? My question would be if you are a major prophet of God, would you not be able to discern that someting is amiss in the Congress? | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
What can you tell me about Scott Webster and his church? Can you expound on his church. Who makes up the Senate, president, and embassies? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.170.86 |
I do not know much about Scott Webstre however he has been elevated in the minds of the congress by the leadership. The senate would be like deacons in most churhes however this is the name they are given in Elijah Centre. The President is of course the Super Apostle himself and the embassies are like cell groups in various areas. I know there has been loose talk of one day having their own satelite in space etc. Part of ther business trust is to create 'alternative economic systems for when the earth systems fail.' If they keep at it they might as well move to a new planet with their own army. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
I get these emails everyday in my inbox from Joel osteen's ministry. They are the largest and fastest growing church in the US today. While I am not plugging anyone's ministry, these words are very encouraging and uplifting to any believer. In my association with the Congress you did not hear things like this. With the Congress you never seemed to be good enough for God. He was seldomed pleased and as humans we had to keep constantly being 'adjusted.' What we ended up with was justification by works and a humanistic opression that saddled us with guilt. Thank God that He is raising up New SONs to build and encourage the body of Christ! You Are Pleasing to God! Today's Scripture "Before you were ever formed in your mother's womb, God saw you and He approved you." (Jeremiah 1:5) Today's Word: from Joel and Victoria You are approved by Almighty God! You are created in His image and you're the apple of His eye. You did not choose God, but He chose you and He is pleased with you–His most precious creation. Notice that verse doesn't say that God approves you as long as you don't have any faults, or as long as you don't make any mistakes. No, God approves you unconditionally. No matter how many weaknesses you may think you have today, no matter how many times you fall in your walk with the Lord, you've got to get right back up again and hold your head up high. Don't allow the enemy to bring strife into your life by deceiving you into thinking that you are not "good enough" for the plan of God. Stand strong in your thoughts about yourself knowing that not only have you been chosen, but you are approved by Almighty God. A Prayer for Today God, remind me that no matter how many times I fail or fall short of Your expectations, You have already given me Your eternal "stamp of approval." I was made in Your image. Help me to have a healthy, positive self image so I can face the world with confidence. In Jesus' name – Amen. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
505050 You seem familiar with WBN. How long did you attend, and what ultimately made you leave. Did you attend Scott Webster's church? Concerning Noel Woodruffe, have you or anyone else out there heard him say or do things that do not agree with Scripture? My struggle, is that while I question their governmental structure approach, could it just be my flesh rebelling against something I'm not comfortable with. You had also mentioned in an earlier post about $200,000 mba's for relatives. Could you expound. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
I have nothing to expound on anything I mentioned previously. We have all been given free will. If the teachings of the congress works for you, then good luck. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
505050 As you or someone else previously posted there are typically many truths mixed in misinformation. My church has not been involved with Noel W. very long so I'm just trying to gather as many facts as possible in order to make an educated decision. I appreciate your imput. You seem honest and appear to have been under Noel's direct teaching at one time. Please don't shut me out on this if you have other relative information. The spirit you spoke of might be that of "nicolaitions". If you type in that word it seems to describe WBN. Do you or anyone else agree? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 86.135.32.238 |
I looked into the word Nicolaitan and found the following. 'A good translation of Nicolaitan would be "those who prevail over the people." This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy of priests and clergy lording over the flock. The Council of Trent stated, "If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema." It is not the question of the ministries but rather in the separation of them into a hierarchy over the people. This very idea was taken over by the Protestants with their own corruption of leadership roles and coverings. The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God's sight and He hates the lust for religious power over others. There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion of the rightful authority of God.' | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Since you've attended a WBN church in the past do you feel "Nicolatitan" describes them? | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.169.33 |
I never said I attended their church. They have several conferences in the past and i came into contact with some of their stuff. To answer a previous question, No I have not heard or seen anyone on their leadership do anything that was imoral or illegal(think that was what you really wanted to know). One can disagree with the teachings of a church and in this forum is free to liken some of their behaviour to cults. We however need to be cautious in mentioning individuals as issues of libel among other things can come into play. I quoted the description of the nicolations, you and others can form your own opinion. Take care and God Bless. | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
My church began probation with WBN about a year ago. It greatly disturbed me when the Apostle Steve Schultz stood in our midst and told us to forget what we had learned up to that point because the Lord had just released Apostles back into the earth and they were the only ones anointed to interpret the scriptures. So sit back relax and they will tell us how to think. He then said the rapture was made up and there wasn't going to be a Great rapture of the church, no where in the Bible does it talk about a rapture and that it was the worldly church view, let's get out of here. Obviously 2 Thessalonians is missing from his Bible. He then began to tell us that Israel had nothing do with end time events and in the Bible where it talked about Zion and Israel it was referring to us the church"replacement theology". Has anyone else been taught these erroneous teachings? They are ludicrous and totally unscriptural. My Bible says when you see Israel compassed about by armies, Lift up your head for your redemption draweth nigh. And if I might add,the Bible is very clear that the Gospel is simple, so simple that a child can understand. They are not preaching the simplistic Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, they are not concerned with souls. They want the "Reform the Church". I agree the church needs REFORMATION, but it doesn't need the WBN, or the Congress. All we need is Jesus!!!!!!!! Anything else is counterfeit, and Anti-Christ, THE Great Apostle Paul his ownself said so! May the eyes of our Understanding be enlightened by the Hope which we have in Jesus Christ. God "Jehovah" Bless and Keep You | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
5050 - Thankyou for your straight forward and honest posting. Joyful - You said Steve Schulz stated that "the Lord had just released Apostles back into the earth and they were the only ones anointed to intrepret the scriptures". Was this an exact statement, or are you paraphrasing? When he 1st came into our church he started talking with all these big words and no one understood him. All lot of people did not feel comfortable with him and some left. He did a transformation (I assume at the elders suggestions) and started talking more at our level. I, as did others have never been comfortable with him even though things he's said appear ok scripturally concerning God. The problem is that most of the topics he deals with concern governmental issues of accepting authority in our lives. That authority I assume would be our elders and WBN. I've never heard anyone talk about authority in the terms he uses or in the terms our pastor uses which I assume were passed down from Steve Schutlz. These are issues that are difficult to reference back to the Bible. Jesus said something to the effect that "My yoke is light". You're right, the Gospel is simple but this stuff is mind boggling. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 86.135.38.114 |
Dear Yuhlierus, I never said on here that I attended a WBN church neither have I said I did not. If you read through all my postings you should be able to draw the natural conclusion. My position is though, although we can criticize under the guise of anonyminity, there is still a responsibility to represent the facts. This of course as you mention can be misinterpreted. To believe the WBN is a cult would natuarly infer that it is not a place where God exists. To critize the teachings of the leaders whould natuarly infer that they are operating outside the realms of scripture. Again it is always easier to criticize and say what we are against. It is always harder to articulate what we are for. Be blessed. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 2117 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.179.210 |
Steve Schultz is a heretic and WBN is a CULT! Get out! | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 2118 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.179.210 |
Only Apostles that have been released in this world now are out of our butts and they are not holy and they smell bad. We don't need no stinking apostles. We have Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We have all we need to know God! WBN is a cult! Get out! | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
Dear Yelirus, Thank you for your response. Yes, those were his"Steve Schultz exact words". I was raised in a christian home, I teethed on the back of pews. I know the truth, and when he said some of those things literally my mouth flew open. He also told us that most of the things he was going to say was going to offend us, but if we wanted to be a part of what God was doing in the earth today we would have to basically get over it and accept what he was saying. If we didn't we were welcome to leave but we would not be welcomed back and for the members of the church to dust off their shoes to the ones who leave. I didn't leave immediately, but my Pastor began to change and He was becoming a sheep driver, not herder. The Word is very clear that Pastor's are to Love the flock, not Lord over them. I was the worship leader at our Church, and the "Open Heavens" that we once experienced became more and more like brass. God is very clear about his stance on israel, if you bless Israel,you will be blessed. If you curse them, you will be cursed. I hate to see my friends so deceived. These are extremely intelligent people, but they have just been brain washed. I pray that their eyes will be enlightened. Oh yeah, we were told to be apart of WBN we had to GIVE a certain percentage of our offerings to the organization. So we could all help to bear one another's financial burdens. All of this is first hand experience, I was there, but thank God I have been delivered from this other Gospel. Be Blessed! | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.46.189 |
Thanks for your posting joyful_in_jesus. I think the term sheep driver is very appropriate for this bunch. They have no concept of the love of God hence the way they behave. God has delivered you from something that potentially could have done you great harm. We can only pray that others are as fortuante as you are. My expereince suggests that those who have been grounded eslwhere are more able to make an informed decision an leave. Those who came into christianity under this type of organisation find it much tougher. Stay strong. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Joyful, Thank you for responding. Could I ask how long it has been since your association with Steve Schutlz. If it has been years it is possible for him to have changed his ways (matured). What was (is) your take on WBN? Did Noel Woodruffe, Scott Webster, or Anderson Williams say or do anything that raised red flags? | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Franklin, George Burns was once asked to join a club. His response was that he would not want to join any club that would want him as a member. Some of your comments are detrimental to your appeared positions. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.46.189 |
As we are having an intelligent debate about this let talk of what two of the names you mentioned teaches. I am speaking of the two from Trinidad. They teach that God needs man to accompish his purposes (sound true but there is a catch). They teach that God does nothing whitout first telling his apostles and prophets. This sounds scriptural but what they are really emphasising is that the leadership knows what God is doing and therefore you need them to access God. I heard them both teach that Man is in the 3 dimensional realm and God needs him to be able to do anything. Now my basic problem with this is it gives man especially those with huge egos a sense of importance which I am not sure was intended in scripture. My bible still says God is the Almighty and can do whatever He wills. If we do not praise HIM the rocks will. He could use a donkey to speak or a man with a PHD. The teaching that elevates men especially clergy is at its root of an anit christ spirit. The reformation as advocated by men like Luther, Calvin and other reformers empowered people. The masses now had a say. The reformation advocated by the congress puts the power back in the hands of the priest. If joyful's account of what Steve Shultz says is accuarte then that is unfortunate. Apostles are not the only ones to interpret scripture. Anyone who has a heart for God can do that. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 2128 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.179.210 |
I get sick and tired of man worshipping. Idolatry. Putting some megalomaniac, poofy haired preacher man between us and God. People looking up to a man to show them the way to God, or a man to tell them what God says. We already have that Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Why would we need a mere man to tell us what Christ already has and what the Holy Spirit will everyday in our hearts?There are no modern day apostles. Anyone that claims to be is an apostle of satan! | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
Dear Yelirus, it has been a year and 4 months since I have had anything to do with the afore mentioned. However, Some dear friends left about 4 months ago and they were deeply troubled about how things were going. They went to a seminar and were taught the same things over and over about how God was replacing Israel with the church. How that the land really belonged to the Palestinian people and other such nonsense. I do believe that all men are to be saved and call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. However, God's word is still true. Israel, the Jews are God's chosen people and that land belongs to them, the Israelites. One thing that my friend kept saying was, He is so arrogant. I never had any contact with Woodruffe, only through the apostle that came. I am truly burdened for our church family as a whole, we must pray for them and ask for God's mercies. We need to pray that they will come back to the truth and the simplicity of the Gospel. And if I might add we need to love them not attack them, that sets us apart from the world. That's how God reveals his Glory in the earth is through us, how we respond to things that {raise our righteous indignation}. We need to be the love chapter, not just quote it. Be Blessed! Be Blessed! | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 2134 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.179.210 |
joy..... "only through the apostle that came." That was no apostle that came. That was just another pompous, slick con man with a self appointed, self anointed title to make you think he was closer to God than you are. That's how he gets paid the big bucks. By deception. You do not need any so called apostles to tell you what God says. Listen to the Holy Spirit yourself. Stop kissing man's feet. Stand up. we are all equal under God. Christ died for that cause. We only go through Christ now to get to the Father. No some pompous charlatan! Quit worshipping man. There are no modern day apostles! Look up to God! Not man! | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.197.48 |
Dear Joyful, Shhhh. Let's keep this quiet if we can. I'm going to try and sneak this in without Franklin catching it. Could I ask who was the apostle who spoke about the Jews/Palestinians. Much thanks} | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
Dear Yelirus, it was the afore mentioned name in one of the previous postings. I know this hasn't got anything to do with wbn but have you heard about this new movie that is supposed to be released this summer called the "BEAST". This is some pretty frightening stuff. They are marketing the 666 sign to children and all kinds of stuff. I just found out about it today. Go to the God that wasn't .com, Let me know what you think Be Blessed, our redemption draweth nigh!!! | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 2154 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.179.210 |
Is your apostle like the Pope. Do you placate yourself at his feet? Do you kiss his ring? Do you worship this man? Is he closer to God than you are? How do you know? Did God tell him to tell you that he was anointed? Drop the apostle title. The guys a crook! You've been flim flammed! Listen to God for yourself! WBN is a cult! | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Thank you Joyful, Wasn't quite sure what to type in. Tried the God that wasn't.com but nothing comes up. Is my computer illiteracy showing? Please clarify. Franklin - I love you man. Actually I agree with most things you say. I might not say it in the same way but I appreciate your fortitude. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 81.159.40.80 |
Yelirus appears to be trying to entrap someone. All the postings are clear yet he/she keeps asking for names or in other cases trying confirm if someone was a member of WBN. The honourable leader of the Congress claims to be a spiritual giant who as an Apostle God reveals his plans to. I am sure therefore that if a major move of God were to pass through his church he would spot it and not miss it completely. Being a part of WBN/ congress is like being a prisoner in the movie 'the Island.' It starred Scarlet Johansen and Ewan McGregor. They were told the world outside had 'danger' and if you were not under the 'covering' calamity would befall you. If you do leave and start your own ministry they would love you to fail so they can go to their members and say 'see what we told you.' I would not put it pass them to even summon forces to try and trip you up. They are free to do it as these things only makes us stronger and allows us to trust God more. (Message edited by anonymous505050 on May 02, 2006) | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
Dear Yelirus, type in the beast and then look for the site that talks about the movie that is going to be released 6-6-06. It also talks about the god that wasn't there. | ||
| anonymous505050 New member Username: anonymous505050 Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.36.35.133 |
As 505050 is about to be exterminated I think I should say someting positive about the WBN. This is tough but some of the things they taught have benefited me today. These would be in relation to having a global perspective etc. It is a shame things are where they are. Dear Franklin, I have read all your postings and it appears the mere mention of the word Apostle triggers a negative reaction. Your anger is evident and I was wondering if you were part of a 'cult' in the past or had a particularly trumatic experience with the same. What ever the situation please be assured that the anger you feel today will one day pass (if you allow the Lord to heal you). What you do not want is to have people push your buttons knowing that you will respond in a particular way. Have a pleasant day. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
505050 You stated that I am trying to entrap someone because I ask for specific names. Who could I possibly be trying to entrap and for what purpose. It appears everyone posting since I began has already left WBN or has never been a part of it. I asked you if you had been a part of it to determine if you were hearing 1st hand information or just possible gossip.(I'm still not sure if you were or weren't). I'm not sure where Franklin stands. The only one I can say for sure was a part of WBN was Joyful and that is why I was asking her specific questions. My situation is this: I am attending a church that has WBN as their covering. I was asking Joyful for names because I'm trying to determine if it was the same people/person who have been at my church to determine their validity. Just as you stated when you said something positive about WBN, I also see what appears to be some positive things in my church. I see some people changing for the better. My dilemma is do I keep going to a church that is under the covering of an organization that from what I read from you and others is not good. I trust Joyful's postings. She has been there and experienced 1st hand. I haven't heard SS say the things in our church that she says he has said in her former church but now can be watching for it. On the other hand I need to be careful. These postings are pretty much all anti-WBN and I need to try and be balanced in order to make an informed decision. For now, I will continue praying as I do every day that God will give me clarity on this and what direction to take. I appreciate your information and honest postings and part of what you said goes into the mix of me determining what to do next. My feelings right now are that whether WBN is legit or not I believe God wants me at this church. I will continue however to explore WBN and if I see evidence that doesn't line up with scripture will go to my pastor for clarification. God Bless. | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Joyful, There were a lot of different things that came up when I typed in the beast so wasn't able to find what you had mentioned but I appreciate that and your other postings. | ||
| joyful_in_jesus New member Username: joyful_in_jesus Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.55.238.193 |
http://www.thebeastmovie.com/trailer/ | ||
| yelirus New member Username: yelirus Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.159.233.30 |
Dear Joyful, Thank you for the movie link. I think it is clear the US is being divided in 2, with the gap getting larger all the time. This was clear in the presidential election when Bush defeated Kerry after the Florida fiasco. This movie is just the opposite of the Mel Gibson movie. The liberal press and Hollywood are getting more and more emboldened. Nothing should surprise us. The gap between right and wrong will continue to increase. I believe you have a good heart that people sense and come to you to talk and lay out their problems. Keep being that "light to the world". I hope you don't think as 5050 said that I'm trying to trap anyone. I'm only trying to gather information. If you have anything else you're willing to share about SS or Wbn I'd like to hear it. Thank you | ||
| seamaiden New member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 128.172.227.69 |
I WAS THERE When that girl was called out front of the rest of the Congres WBN network. first off let me start off by saying that 1. Yes I am the same seamaiden that posted here on this self same message board over a year ago (just scroll up and you will see how quick i was to defend) 2. why am i back here you ask? because my eyes have been opened, my family has been ostracized and this Congress WBN is very "cultish" I was there when that girl was called out in front of entire network. my former church Eagles Landing Church is a part of the Network and we were 'summoned' one sunday to go to a fellow church near arlington virginia. it was a supposed to be a time when all the network churches would get together and here some big todo that Noel Woodruffe himself would be downloading to us via the net. at the beginning of the service Noel woodruffe said that he had something unpleasant that he had to do. he called this one girl and her family to stand up in front of God and everyone and basically said 1. she went and got herself pregnant 2. she had been counseled that the way she was going was wrong and had been warned. 3. people do make mistakes, but if this happened again, then she would be banished from any of the Congress WBN networks. not from the body of christ mindy you, just from the network. 4. she brought shame to church. 5. people were not supposed to coddle her (in that church at least) needless to say that the way it was delt with, put the fear of God in me. Why did we (my family and I) leave? 1. Isolation 2. we were getting away from the word 3. depending too much on Noel Woodruffe. many incidents have been seen in our particular church that led to our departure. now i hear you can basically have sevice there on 3-way. Crap that went on was not kosher. | ||
| seamaiden New member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 128.172.227.69 |
....i am back.... unkosher crap such as a family being criticzed(sp?) on how they were dealing with there household. my grandmother passed away just before the christmas holiday. my grandmother had been doing well but then dropped off health wise for about a year and half, and my father left to be with her in december. she had been lifted up in prayer during battle lines off and on during the her illness. also at the same time, out pastors wife's mother was also doing poorly and there was not a sunday where we did not get a blow by blow of what was going on. anywho my grandmother passes away, and the rest of my family go and be with my dad and extended family. my pops was real close with his mother. keep in mind, our church at that time was only about 25-30 people, so isolation should not have been a problem right? WRONG. upon our return we got a message on our answering machine asking us to pray for another family who just lost a grandmother as well, nothing asking about us or our affairs or how family was doing...zip zilch nada. so basically my dad was like, I'm not going back there. that put the nail in the coffin for him. my mother sis and i were going sparadically. i was accepted to a university back in november 05 and started going this year in january. I started going b/c 1. i need an education 2. i was talking with a friend of mine a week before leaving. that sunday my pastor gets up and says he feels impressed from the Lord to say that this a thing being done from the Lord etc etc, basically confirming everything etc etc. so i am away from home, doing alright in school. i am not a party animal, stay pretty much in the books, in God. I've got to because this campus is sooo liberal and tolerance sucks. i stay in contact with my mom and she's pretty much on the fence as to whether or not we should stay or go. by this time people are slowly drifting away. spring break rolls around and i am home for that time. sunday morning comes and we wake up a little late, but i tell my mom "yes, you and me are going to church. lets go lets go." It had to be Gods perfect timing because the pastor was speaking about what should be done, communication etc etc. we were feedbacking with each other and people were giving thoughts and opinions. my mother was hesitant to say something, but i whispered to her that i would stay there and have her back. Because crap needed to be said and laid out there. So its her turn and she's saying that there has been a lack of communication and as a result love that was presented during our time of grief. no one extended curtsey or an arm to my father. she also called out the 2---T-W-O people that did send cards. my mother taught in the sunday school and how she would pass by the parents in the hall and not even get a "Hi how are you". some other issues that went on with my family, the pastor had a whole 3 months to see to, he never did. needless to say it was laid bare. forgiveness was extended and recieved and we thought that was that. No. the pastors wife emails me with this: | ||
| seamaiden New member Username: seamaiden Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 128.172.227.69 |
Hi >I just wanted to touch base with you and let you know again that we love >you and are sorry to hear of the sense of neglect that you and your >family are feeling. I hope that you will continue to stay in touch. I >was out of the room part of the time when your mom was speaking so I >don't know if she said what her status was (regarding remianing in >fellowship at ELC or moving on). Now that you're an adult, I'm wondering >what your thoughts are and where you feel the Lord wants you to be >rooted. Please send me a note and share your thoughts. I do care about >you, your develoment and your progress. >Look forward to hearing from you, My mother was very •••••• about this. why would the pastor's wife send an email |
