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bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 582
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.176.44.177
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 7:16 pm: | 
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My younger sister messed up when she was 16 and got pregnant. We were JW's at the time, so you can imagine the uproar.
I did not find out until years later, but the Elders had a meeting with my sister where they interogated her.
The Eldership does not have enough sense, due to the governing body in NY, to have a women present when questioning a young girl.
The pounded her; asking her questions like "How many times did you do it" etc.
From a biblical point of view, the Elders (Pastors) of a Church are supoosed to confront people in sin with love. Having worked with teens for years, I know that you have to be especially sensitive when confronting them on issues. Especially when a young girl gets pregnant.
No group of men should have a young girl alone without the presence of a women.
This action is the rule, not the exception. |
inkorrekt
Advanced Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 698
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 208.54.15.1
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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This is nothing but cruelty.A woman alone can understand the needs and feelings of ateen age girl. Depriving her of this is inhuman. Well, if they follow Bible to the word, they ought to have STONED her to death.This means, they can chose the scriptures that suit their needs and discard others. The last book of the bible says"Do not add anything to this book and do not take away anything from this". Bible clearly says that there is a heaven and it also describes Hell. But, JW's do not want to believe in hell. But, they only want to believe in heaven.If this is not hypocrisy, what is it then? |
inkorrekt
Advanced Member
Username: inkorrekt
Post Number: 699
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 208.54.15.1
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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This is nothing but cruelty.A woman alone can understand the needs and feelings of ateen age girl. Depriving her of this is inhuman. Well, if they follow Bible to the word, they ought to have STONED her to death.This means, they can chose the scriptures that suit their needs and discard others. The last book of the bible says"Do not add anything to this book and do not take away anything from this". Bible clearly says that there is a heaven and it also describes Hell. But, JW's do not want to believe in hell. But, they only want to believe in heaven.If this is not hypocrisy, what is it then? |
bear
Advanced Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 593
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.176.44.177
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 9:02 pm: |
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That is correct, inkorrect.
The elders within a congregation of JW's do not have untilmate authority according to scriptural standards; only by wat of 12 men in New York. |
exjws
New member
Username: exjws
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 64.74.163.178
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:29 pm: |
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Elders are about as useful as used toilet paper! Any body that puts them selves in subject to them should have their head examine. |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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Within every court system in the civilized world the accused has the right to counsel. That way you can be informed of your rights, and advised on a proper defense. This is fundamental for the entire proceeding as it lends credibility to the trial.
In the first century elders would hear the cases of wrongdoers "at the city gates." In other words in public for all to watch. That is not the case today. Judicial Committee meetings are held behind closed doors, and the accused cannot have legal counsel present. Why not? |
praetorian
Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 93
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 12:33 pm: |
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Jeeprub:
As to your first paragraph the statement is of course true, and they also stoned people to death, for wrongs they committed as well! However, the reverse can also and equally be stated when it comes to matters that are handled privately, by groups, associations, organizations, Churches, and so on, etc. Case and point: No one (for the most part) wants to have their “dirty laundry” exposed for all to hear, during a matter of serious religious consequence, now some might, and not care, but again and so be it.
Your statements regarding the use of use of legal counsel with religious affairs is not founded nor fair as it is not the same forum meaning; legal advisors or courts are not “spiritual advisors” or forums. Jeeprub, you have issue with a religious forum, and as with any forum, of a group, church, business, association etc., the ones managing the group, do in fact have the right to set down the regulations of that group, and a person wanting to be a member of that group, must or should know these going in, as to whether or not they want to adhere to the same, up front, should they find themselves in such a position! However, even in the legal community, when it comes to Military affairs, the forum and structure for the hearing of charges, rights etc., are dramatically different and not the same!
The matter of forum for addressing things that take place in a religious setting, specifically, the Christian Congregation is well established, and spelled out in the scriptures. By way of an example, in Matthew 18:15-17, which states: “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector” and to this there are the various scriptures that must be viewed alongside these ones, like the ones in 1 Timothy, regarding the appointment of “older men” etc. that care for these duties, among the others like that of teaching etc.
As to the things you speak of, it is my understanding that these matters are clearly divulged to persons that become JW’s in their Organized Book of which I have a copy, and understand that all those becoming one, get one and go over the same! Again, if you and or anyone have issues with something like this, then the time to take issue with it is BEFORE you become one or a member of anything, not after when these same rules or regulations are used against you over a specific matter!
P |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 29
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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praetorian said, "the ones managing the group, do in fact have the right to set down the regulations of that group, and a person wanting to be a member of that group, must or should know these going in, as to whether or not they want to adhere to the same, up front, should they find themselves in such a position!"
Yes you keep saying this. So what we are talking about then are the rules of men. Organizational rules. |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 30
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 12:39 pm: |
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The only rules a Christian is bound to follow are those from Christ as contained in the Bible. If a person is DFed for not adhereing to a man made rule, then the organization which instituted the rule and the policy has crossed the line. They are no longer acting for God's benefit, but their own. |
praetorian
Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 1:49 pm: |
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Jeeprub:
I am not sure what you mean when you say “Organizational Rules” as you can call it association rules, or group rules, of rules of conduct for a business etc. OK, now what; these types of entitles, either have the right to set the standards for which they operate on or they don’t! Which is it; and what is your point?
Since entitles like these which include religious entities, are in fact managed and operated by humans, people, then of course, there are “rules of men” as they cannot be anything else. Now, with that said, a religious entity has more (by implication) responsibility when stating such rules and or regulations (as they also must comply and live by Government Law as well) and must and or should base these same rules and regulations on the Bible or the book or governing authority they express believe in; as a Muslim would have to do with the Quran!
As to being ”DFed”, as you put it, this is clearly stated as allowable in the Bible, with not only what I quoted to you earlier in another post in Matthew 18, but in the case of 1 and 2 Corinthians!
With that stated, it is not Biblical for a religious entity to engage in the using of religious rules or regulations, that governs their way of life of belief system, as a way to administer legal (civil or criminal) issues, and as such, if you are referring to this, then this is an issue worth taking on with any entity, JW’s included!
As to the last part of your post, without your stating specific issues, it is difficult for anyone on this board to comment on, as again, every story has two (some say three) sides, and you may just be stating general opinion, as to how you “feel” that may be factually incorrect!
P |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 33
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 3:03 pm: |
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praetorian said: "As to being ”DFed”, as you put it, this is clearly stated as allowable in the Bible, with not only what I quoted to you earlier in another post in Matthew 18, but in the case of 1 and 2 Corinthians!"
The Bible commands us to stop associating with brothers who violate a specific list of commandments. What is the JW defense for DFing brothers for things not listed in the Bible? Nowhere in Matthew or 1 and 2 Corinthians do I read a command to show unquestioning loyalty to a Governing Body. Where is that command?
There is nothing wrong with an organization setting up rules to help it function, the problem occurs when members who violate such man-made rules are treated as if they broke a Biblical rule.....as if they have offended Jehovah. That is the problem with JW's, they have enacted another layer of rules and regulations which are placed on equal footing, sometimes above, Biblical rules.
Much the same way the Pharisees did in Jesus' time. |
praetorian
Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 99
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 3:32 pm: |
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Jeeprub:
If you feel that is wrong has been done in your case, then what do you do? What would you do if it was in a business setting? Contact the powers that be! Now when you add God in the mix, you have two things you can do here; 1. Contact the GB via letter and tell them how you feel as your issue is with them! And: 2. Pour your heart out to your Creator, and He will answer you and take care of you! Take a look at Isaiah 41:10 and 13!
If you feel the need to Pray about it, then keep in mind that when you pray, remember that God while always answering prayers He as any Good Parent, will often say No and or will not respond in the manner of your pre-conceived ideas, so the question truly is: Are you listening to the reply even if you don’t like it?
Now if you feel that you situation is so great that God cannot do anything for you, then you truly have no place to go!
P |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 38
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 3:46 pm: |
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I see you have nothing to say about brothers being DFed for breaking organizational rules, not Biblical ones.
The fact that wrong can be done to honest hearted ones through the DFing process proves that the DFing process as practiced by JW's today does not originate with God. It is Pharisaic, it is man made, and it is wrong.
I feel no need to call the Governing Body and complain. The scriptures tell us that by their fruits we will recognize them. It is obvious that the spirit of Jehovah is not upon such an arrangement. Your only defense of the practice is to compare it to a large business or corporation.
Well fella, we are not talking about some business or corporation, but about a group of people who claim to represent Jehovah God. As such they are held to a higher standard than some mere company.
The scriptures are full of people who were used by Jehovah, but then were rejected because of their corruption. The Pharisees were once used by Jehovah, and we know how Jesus felt about them! |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 101
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 3:57 pm: |
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Jeeprub:
I did above and add, that this is wrong and if was done to you, then by all means do something about it as I discuss above! You are dead wrong about the Dfing process as it is scriptural, and if you need me to show this to you, you let me know!
The scripture you quote, cut both ways; “The scriptures tell us that by their fruits we will recognize them.” And one day this will all come out in the wash! And I guess from your standpoint the JW’s which include your Mom will get theirs!!!!
I feel bad for you if you cannot get a simple analogy, as I will not explain it here, but fellow, Son, Dude and Pal, it is what it is!
Whatever you do, no one should make us that angry as you allow others to take you over and rule you, without your knowing it!
Hey in the scriptures does it not say that the true worshipers of God will be hated! As I don’t hate anyone, even my enemies, I guess I am doing OK, and worry about folks like you with so much hate in them for whatever the reason as that is simply just plain wrong and not good for the soul!
P |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.250.211.46
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 4:29 pm: |
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praetorian said: "And I guess from your standpoint the JW’s which include your Mom will get theirs!!!!"
Sorry, that is not how I feel at all. Please don't pretend to know how I feel.
I have no hatred in my heart, only pity. Pity for all the wasted lives within the organization. I don't really understand the JW hate complex anymore.
It is possible to disagree with someone without hating them. It is possible to speak out against wrongdoing without hatred in your heart.
JW's are not as hated as they think they are. Most of the world barely takes notice of you! |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 108
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 4:34 pm: |
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Here Here! Now where do I send the Pulitzer Prize? |
jeeprube
Junior Member
Username: jeeprube
Post Number: 44
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.28.53.82
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 4:50 pm: |
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I sense your ability to hold an intelligent conversation is devolving. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 110
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 4:56 pm: |
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Who ever said it was intelligent in the first place? I'm sorry, you did. I am just simple plain me! |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 56
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.248.1
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 8:01 am: |
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the problem with the jw elders is that it is just a false prophet cult, and so they are not appointed by following the holy spirit nor do they have any bonnified qualifications .......... so when 3 of them get together and question a young girl who confessed to having sex, they end up with erections and want to know all the juicy details, battering the young inexperience girl with dirty questions while she crys and reveals every detail to them.
before i figured out the jws were just a cult, and left, i heard of several teenagers from our kingdom hall who refused to attend any more meetings because they were interrogated in this fashion and realized the leadership was wicked. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 197
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:52 pm: |
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Crawly:
I fully understand that you feel they are a false prophet cult, and not appointed by God etc. and I state here to you, that many feel differently! In fact many thought Jesus had a demon, was a drunkard and was with prostitutes, but that did not detract from the work Jesus did, and who he really was, despite these claims.
They do their best to follow scriptural admonitions, when helping folks with scriptural problems, and when you say “young girl” they make sure that they parents are present depending upon the persons age and they do not get into sordid details, but rather the issue, and then do their best to give scriptural counsel on what to do, and avoid the behavior, which if ignored can indeed lead to disfellowshipping.
As to getting erections etc, I guess you would need to be there, as anyone can make such a disgusting assertion as easy as one can simple throw a rock through a window.
My experience with the teenagers I know is so far away from what you describe, and some have had problems, and no one expresses what you have expressed.
It appears you were disfellowshipped before you had your epiphany when you should have had your epiphany BEFORE getting disfellowshipped, as when you sincerely became one, was that an epiphany also?
Tell me have you found the true church of God on earth with perfect people, because a if you have, it is incumbent upon you to share this with all of our for our benefits!
P |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 62
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.30.197
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:27 pm: |
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oh come on now preatorian, the abusive false prophet jw leadership are wicked.
they have so many child molestation cases on their hands that they are in court up to their necks selling off propery to pay for all the millions in damages.
millions of ex-jws will testify to that.
you say there are some who disagree?..... yes of course, current jws who are brainwashed disagree.
gosh, jim jones even got his followers to claim he was a saint, as he had sex with all the women, and then later they all drank the kool-aid.
the wicked gov body of jws has a very good hold on the unsuspecting followers...... the brain-washing cult tactics found in the watchtower literature works.
especially the part where they continually dictate that all current members may not investigate jws on the internet, nor talk to ex-members...... that particular cult tactic is excellent. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 205
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 5:12 pm: |
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Crawly:
I don’t agree with you, that’s all. I think you are an angry disfellowshipped person with several bones to pick. Tell me that you are not a disfellowshipped angry person.
You are mistaken about “so many child molestation cases” and that they are tied up in court. I think you mean other organizations that live in court! They are not selling off anything to pay damages, and some of us are in a profession that would know about legal matters! No, millions have not been disfellowshipped like you, and they are millions of JW’s, several of who were disfellowshipped like you which speaks volumes against your views and opinions and intentional misrepresentations.
You are comparing JW’s to Jim Jones and that is your right and I submit to you that if this was done by one or more of the elders they would be disfellowshipped like you! You will never get JW’s to jump off a building as you suggest because the elders or the Governing Body tells them too!
They warn against bad influences, and you are definitely not a good one, as you have a lot of hate and hate for them in your heart! Tell me since you have been DF’d, have you found the church of God, that all should follow and has it helped you with all your hate?
The type of Christianity you practice shows it well!
P |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 68
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.45
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 8:40 pm: |
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yup, the wicked jw gov body is up to their neck in child molestation cases and they just paid out millions of damages and sold property in brooklyn new york to help pay for it all ........type in "jehovah's witnesses silent lambs" and read all about it.
the wicked false prophet jw organization is slowly dying off now as all of their wickedness is catching up to them..... matt 24;24.... deut 18;20
num 16........ 2 thess 2;2 |
junefever
New member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 9:13 pm: |
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"You are mistaken about “so many child molestation cases” and that they are tied up in court. I think you mean other organizations that live in court!"
The JWs did in fact pay an undisclosed amount to settle rampant allegations of child molestation supported by JW doctrine. The claims of many, many children who were abused were discounted because of the JW's requirement to have at least 2 witnesses present during the wrongdoing. Right, child predators routinely commit their perversions in front of adult witnesses.
And, rather than report the illegal activities to the police, many JW leaders took matters into their own hands, esp because they knew it would be a negative reflection on "Jehovah's organization."
Very apalling abuse of their religious control. Thank goodness in this day and age people will not put up with that crap. JWs no longer have the right to abuse in secrecy and exploit "religious freedom" to hide from the law.
Just as courts will not allow parents to let their children die due to their primitive religious, man-made interpretations of ancient documents. Court orders are now routine when minors need blood transfusions. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 247
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 2:14 pm: |
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Junefever:
What you describe about cases like this occurring among them is true, and is also found in all religions. However you make it seem as though “all” JW’s are wicked people doing horrible things to everyone in the world including their children, and this is simple not the case! Also regarding what you describe concerning American jurisprudence, this is how the legal system in the US works! I trust you are an attorney and know how this works!
You really feel hatred toward these people and this is patently clear, and I submit to you that anyone that wicked, person or entity that is truly wicked, will, according to the Bible, not get away with these terrible things, JW or not! This includes you and those like you, unless and of course you feel you are above the Bible!-
An impression one easily gets from reading your writings!
P |
crawly
Intermediate Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 105
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.238
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 9:02 pm: |
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to anyone reading this.
the jehovah's witness top leadership did an extensive cover-up of all of their child molestation cases that they swept under the carpet, claiming religious clergy rights....
........as the children repeatedly got molested over and over, they swept it under the carpet to keep it out of the media.
but now, the gig is up....... they are up to their necks in court, selling off property as they lose in court...
type in ''jehovah's witnesses silent lambs'' in your seach and read the horrific jw experiences. |
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