| Author | Message | ||
     fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.100.27 |
This is an off-shoot of the Church of God, (Anderson) from Oklahoma, in the vein of the "holiness" movement with strict adherance to outward rules and peculiar dress. Does anyone have any personal experiences with this controlling cultic group and/or Daniel Danny Layne, which might perhaps benefit others who might be thinking of joining? Or those thinking of leaving? Or those who have left, and simply need an outlet to vent...to be understood, restored and healed! Please think about sharing your story, or if you would like to contact me off this forum, you may use the address below. Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.100.27 |
This is an off-shoot of the Church of God, (Anderson) from Oklahoma <-- this is supposed to read (Anderson) from Indiana! Not Oklahoma. | ||
| kimberlyfredrick Member Username: kimberlyfredrick Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 207.69.137.35 |
Are they 7th day? Just wondering if their roots go back to The World Wide Church of God/Herbert W. Armstrong. | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.100.2 |
I don't think they come from that branch of 'CoG' - gosh, there's just so many! I just know that these came out of the Wesleyan era and a lot of their teachings are based on D.S. Warner and the "restoration" movement. Their official website is http://www.churchofgodonline.com/ Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2676 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.241.6.246 |
they come from a branch og church OF GOD clevland tenn. the anderson group does not beleive in tongues and are against it if fact. they also dont beleive in joining the church they come and are apart of it after they beeen there a while and hold office. they have nothing tho do with the armstrong church or 7th day | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2677 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.241.6.246 |
they come from a branch og church OF GOD clevland tenn. the anderson group does not beleive in tongues and are against it if fact. they also dont beleive in joining the church they come and are apart of it after they beeen there a while and hold office. they have nothing tho do with the armstrong church or 7th day | ||
| allinone New member Username: allinone Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 65.12.40.52 |
they believe they are the true church and all outhers are backslidden,they also teach living free from sin.and if you seperate from them you are lost.they have simular congerations in okla ms tenn ala newmex georga fl injersy and verias outher PLACES THEY CONE OUT OF THE REFERMATION AND THE OLD ARBER MEETINGS they belive they the are the true church in the evening time | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 71.72.188.17 |
The church of God restoration (mess) is under the absolute control of Danny Layne.He has a sizable following 2 0r 3 thousand (Est)and it is growing.He is a Pharisee's Pharisee!.Most of their focus is on the letter of the law and the dress code. Outwardly they do appear to be rightious (because of all the clothing.)Danny laynes parents brought him up in a Anderson Indiana affiliated COG.He backslide around age 18 and went into deep sin for 19 years.He became a heroin addict and inordinate.He spent around 4 years in jail in san fransisco and possibly hollywood.He tried do commit suicide several times.He got saved again around 1980 and claims that 1980 is a propehtic year in the book of revelation that God choose him to break the silence in heaven (spoken of in the book of revelation.) He has managed to gain his sizable following based on his supposed deep insight into the last book of the bible.The word says you can understand prophecy and have all knowledge but if you lack love it is worthless.Danny Layne is controlling and has torn many lives apart by his manrule.He plays dirty toward anyone who questions his authority.The problem with theses cult leaders is when people join their group looking for spiritual healing, they soon confide in them their most deepest problems and sins in the hope of finding healing for their souls.But what happens is the cult leader really could care less about your problems because he has more problems that he can handle himself.That is one reason he is a cult leader he dosent trust in the lord (only his own wit and charisma.)Soon he uses this information to manipulate the person or even worse if a person sees the wolves tail and tries to leave,they will use what you told them in confidence to threaten you,slander you,and/or destroy you.This ends up causing a person more damage than if they had never joined the group.Those that get manipulated into staying become helpers in this soul grinding affair and are just as guilty as the leader. | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.99.157 |
letnomandeceiveyou, thank you for speaking up. What you have shared is exactly the way I remember Danny Layne, and the tactics you describe are precisely how EVERY cult and cult leader will respond to anyone attempting to expose their lies. They are indeed wolves in "sheep" clothing and they will tear and maim anyone they can get their teeth into. For anyone who wishes to expose the bad fruit of this man and his cult, in order to possibly help others see the truth...please be aware that you might come under severe personal attack from this man or his followers. May the precious Lord Jesus be your strength and your refuge as you attempt to shine a light into the darkness. Theophilos Feel free to contact me at theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Hi...my name is Elizabeth Redington, and I was a part of this group from the beginning when Danny Layne first split off from the Evening Light/Guthrie group around 1984. We ( my husband, and two sons) left the group in 1999. I can answer any and all questions in depth about this group.I also knew most of the leaders personally, though I suppose that has changed now. Susan Mutch who is the editor of the Gospel Trumpet magazine ( www.churchofgodonline.com )was my roommate before I got married. We were a part of the Chilliwack BC congregation, though we lived in Nooksack Wa. I could say SO much about how many lives have been ruined by the ministers of this cult. I don't put all the blame on Danny, because the rest are as bad or worse. One of the worst things is that they reject any education past highschool,esp. for the girls, and so you have these ministers counciling people with no idea what they are talking about. They supposedly get their advice from the Holy Spirit, but as I said to our pastor the night we left the group...that isn't what the Holy Spirit is telling me!! And about coming under attack from this man and his folowers...HAHAHA!!!! they are all cowards!!! and I will say it to their face when they knock on my door! I might be shaking when I say it-but say it I will! I have faced having to be deprogrammed at Wellspring. I have been on anxiety meds for 6 yrs because of the fear they brainwashed me with. I have seen my two sons deal with a complete loss of any belief in Christianity by the false gospel these people teach. They don't even have the slightest concept of what mercy is. - Danny Layne was a heroin addicted gay prostitute before he got "saved" His Dad was a minister in the Anderson Indiana Church of God. what else?? the editor of the Gospel Trumpet, the aforementioned Ms Mutch killed her own baby by refusing a C-section until the baby was already dead.And then, because they don't believe in going to doctors unless you backslide, she kept her little operation a secret, because if we had found out, she would have had to stop preaching...deception and lies.... and not to long ago, another possible murder was committed on Gerry Tinsman. He had a terrible huge abdominal hernia and a couple of the "brothers" tried to push it back in and it ruptured, killing Gerry in a few days. You can read the account at another ex-members web site, www.screwedkenoshastyle.com ok, way to much info-I know...sometimes it has to come out and then I go back in my little hole and deal with my daily demons. anyone interested in continuing this little tirade- jeffeliza@comcast.net thanks for letting me vent | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I guess I am just having flashbacks or something...we watched a two hr show on cults on the History channel last night, and then I found this site.My husband and I have been re-hashing some of this stuff all day... I figured I was through with a lot of the anger and rage towards this nasty group, but I guess not... I gave almost two decades of my life to this group, and we had pretty well stopped having anything to do with our families. They practice excommunication and shunnng, and when we began to question the "Angel ministry" well the proverbial poop hit the fan. The day after we left wasn't to bad, but it went downhill very fast from there...we had been taught that all other religous groups were either Babylon, her harlot daughters or the False Preacher of Revelation. So where were we supposed to go for help?? It took about a year before I had a nervous breakdown. We went to some good local churches, but no one could understand what we were going through. Our oldest son, who was 15 at the time refused to leave his room except for necessity, and didn't talk for a year. Both boys refused to do their school work, so we had to send them to public school, which ended up the best thing in the long run so that they could begin to assimlateinto a society they knew little about. The crazy nuts from this group would drive by our house slowly and spy on us.We had to sell our house and move to another town to get away from them. I'll continue this in the next post as our grandbaby needs some help... | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.37.100 |
Dear Elizabeth, thank you for your courage to speak out. I am both excited and sad reading your post...excited for the fact that you and your family have escaped this prison (shall I say "by your coat-tails"?)...and sad for the absolute mental turmoil you and in particular your sons have had to experience. I have heard again and again of the tremendeous damage experienced by many of the younger people who have come away from this...sadly destroyed to the point where they no longer are able to embrace God or any kind of concept to do with Him. I pray that our merciful Lord will find a way to touch their lives yet once again in a renewed way and heal all those wounds inflicted upon them. May they receive a revelation of the true Jesus Christ and His wonderful GRACE and compassion and tender mercies, which are new every morning! And may God continue to bless and heal you and your family, and lead you into His joy and liberty! Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.98.23 |
To all participants, present and future...I would just like to remind us all, that when posting try to keep the posts "factual" and try to avoid emotional, reactional outbursts or personal attacks. It is not the intend of this forum to attack any particular person or their personal choices, but to expose the general false concepts and unbiblical practices of this religious group. When you decide to post to this thread, please take the time to "re-read" your post prayerfully before posting it to the list, so that you have a chance to correct anything, and not having to regret later for stating something that may have been amiss. It is a good practice to consider what you write, as IF you were addressing yourself. Our purpose is to help, and not inflict more hurt. Let's try to remember this. May God guide your hearts and minds. Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Thanks for both the encouragement and the reproof.I go back and forth between ambivilance and rage. I feel SO cheated...of my youth, of my husbands youth, and for my kids faith..Danny used to say that the Church of God spoiled you for anything else..well it does, except not on the way he meant. My son and his girlfriend( whose family also left the Chilliwack congregation two years after we did) and I were having a late night discussion one night over Christmas, and we were all sharing what we felt Christianity was. He still had all of the "salvation by works" doctrine in his head, though he vehemently rejects Christianity as a belief system. I just cried later...I have no idea how to really get across to him that all of the doctrine from the COG is false. I suppose only the Holy Spirit can awaken faith, but still,as a parent I feel responsible. Our oldest son has a baby with his girlfriend... I was devastated that he would reject our moral teachings so drastically. My husband and i manage to go to church 1 or 2 x's a month. we go to a very solid denominational church that is full of mercy. I am very thankful that even though my family is still in the midst of recovery, we are so far ahead of where we were 6 yrs ago. It is better that our kids are agnostic than to be seeped in a false salvation and deceived into believing they are going to Heaven under false pretenses. One thing you don't have to worry about is Church of God Restoration folks reading these posts as they are not allowed to have internet access.Along with no tv, radio,music other than their own brand,no patterned buttons, for the women-no hair cuts ,plain buns for the hair style,only a certain style dress/skirt along with a vest over the dress so no waist line can be seen, dresses to the ankles, only somber colors, no lace or nice colors on the underwear, heavy stockings or two pairs, closed dark shoes, no gold or silver even on your purse,long sleeves even while washing dishes, no patterns on the dress fabric,NO RED anywhere in your house,no decorative curtains, no decorative objects in the house, few or no pictures on the walls unless of religeous significance...no wearing turtlenecks or stretchy fabric,no jewelry including wedding rings,no reading of any books unless pre-approved by the ministry,and the list goes on... the mens list is somewhat shorter, long sleeve dress shirts at all times with the top button ALWAYS done up, no ties, vests over the shirt all the time. Most of the men do general labor type work as they are not permitted to go to higher educational schools.Of course no doctors for anyone. The minister of each congregation has almost complete control over the families in his "care".The wife is to submit to the pastor before her husband.Each member of the family is to report any deviation from the rules by any family member, even if it is by their parents in the privacy of the home. Mothers can not even allow the children to see her with bare arms or hair hanging down, or with her feet uncovered. and the main tenant of their belief is no man rule...mind boggling isn't it??? anyway, may God have mercy on the ministers of this group that are teaching such a false gosple. That God only loves those that obey the ministers. And that how the ministers treat you is how Jesus is treating you, that they are the direct voice of God to all the saved. THis is a horrible cult, and no effort should be spared in trying to warn people away from it... It totally destroys peoples faith in a personal God or Saviour, and in the fact that He loves us and will help us through life. kept daily by the love of God, Elizabeth | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.98.23 |
Now this was an excellent post!  This is the stuff that can be documented as fact and clearly defines some of the MAN RULE and total LEGALISM that this cult is build on! And NONE of it is JESUS at all! And I agree 110% with you Elizabeth, the entire CoG doctrine is false and needs to be discarded and rejected in order to be able to engage in CLEAR thinking once again! There is NO way for a person to build a solid, healthy relationship with Jesus Christ on top the ruins of what men built. For anyone that's freshly coming out of this cult, I want to say don't be afraid of "letting it all hang out" for a while. You have been afraid for much too long, afraid of being "unsaved" or going to hell. Being AFRAID is NOT of God! For He has not given us a spirit of FEAR, but of a SOUND mind. Where many of you are NOW is probably a complete mess, and you probably feel like you are IN hell. Well, the way I see it...you are already there... it can hardly get any worse...and it can only go UP! And the best of it is, God is waiting and longing to pick you up, dust you off and create a beautiful NEW work in you...through LOVE, GRACE and MERCY! He knows that many of us have lived lives that are LOVE-starved and GRACE-starved, and HE promises to FILL the hungry heart. And DON'T let another man (human) get in between you and God ever again! And maybe there are some of you out there, who are just not ready to have anything to do with God right now. I completely understand your feelings and want to tell you "it is OK" to need a vacation from God. HE understands that the image of Him that has been embedded in your mind over the years is unacceptable! God can handle it. Don't worry, neither be afraid! Allow the Wind of God to blow all those cobwebs out of your minds, relax and rest a while...because you NEED a rest! HE carries you, so allow yourself to be carried by Him! Jesus so very much understands our pains and stumblings! He did NOT come to condemn but to SAVE! Hang on to this truth! Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com (Message edited by fellow2 on January 11, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
THIS IS GREAT! LETS EMAIL ANYONE AND EVERYONE WE KNOW THAT WAS PART OF DANNYS CULT! WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE THAT ALTHOUGH WE CANT CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE GOT FOOLED BY THIS FALSE PROPHET AND HIS UNLEARNED FOLLOWERS.WE CAN AT LEAST HELP OTHERS BY CREATING A CLOUD OF WITNESSES AGAINST THIS MAN. LETS TELL OUR EXPERIENCES AND IT WILL WARN OTHERS BEFORE THEY GET TANGLED UP IN HIS WEB OF LIES. IF ONE SOUL IS ALERTED AS TO THE REAL NATURE OF THIS "FALSE PROPHET" THEN THESE POSTINGS WILL HAVE DONE THERE JOB! LETS PLEASE REFRAIN FROM A CARNAL WARFARE.IF ANY OF DANNYS GROUP EVER RESPONDES TO THESE POSTINGS THEY MAY TRY TO INCITE HATRED. LETS KEEP A LEVEL HEAD AND TELL IT LIKE IT IS }}AS THE LORD LEADS. MAY GOD BLESS | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
well, we have a great little group started here!! I doubt if we can actually help anyone still in the restoration, as they get all paranoid and band together pretty tight when attacked, but I know there are others who have left and have gone through, or are going throught the same nightmare we all went through after we left. Mind control is a hard thing to get free from. Like they said to me at Wellspring. It is easy to get the person out of the cult, the hard part is to get the cult out of the person. Just the other day, something happened to me, and I realized I still had a whole area of my life that was still under "control" of the false teachings we had been hypnotised by. I don't even know if I have the emotional energy left to deal with this, I just have to give it to God and ask for mercy... I'm in contact with lots of the folks that left in 2000, and most of them are struggling to regain the lives they lost to this group. Some of the kids, who are now young adults, are doing good, others are doing terrible.Some are going to college, some are partying and doing drugs. I can't seem to figure out why some do one thing and some the other...except that we all have a different path to follow... One thing is sure...Gods love has never left us, and will never leave us.He is true, though all else may fail us. We even fail ourselves.But He will never fail in His unering determination to get us through to the end. | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.208.162 |
Hi all! I used to know some of the ones that attended the COGR in Nooksack/Chilliwack. Does anyone know where Ron Walter went? He was a really nice fellow, but I have not heard from or about him for a few years now. God bless!} | ||
| gloriamarilyn New member Username: gloriamarilyn Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 142.161.231.88 |
Hi there, My name is Gloria (Kauenhowen) Froese. I was raised in the Danny Layne COG group. I was 10 when we got in, and 18 when we got out. God has been incredibly good to me during these last 7 years, and has done an incredible work of healing in my life. I went to Providence Bible College & Seminary, which is where I was able to completely re-evaluate everything I believed. I actually ended up losing my faith entirely, and then had to build up from scratch. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. As closure, I wrote Danny Layne a letter to detail my journey of faith since leaving the COG. You can read it on my blog: http://gloriamarilyn.livejournal.com/478799.html I just got married to my best friend, Chad, this last August, and it's absolutely wonderful. If you'd like, you can see our wedding pictures at http://picasaweb.google.com/gloriamarilyn I'd love to talk to people that have left the COG- feel free to email me at gloriamarilyn (at) yahoo (dot) com. Whereistruth, I know how to get ahold of Ron Walter. You can email me with your information, and I'll pass it on to them. I think this board is a good idea. I hope that people looking to get out would find a way to look at this, but they are so governed by fear- they don't dare to question or look anywhere else. The only thing we can do is to pray for them, and hope that God begins to work on them from the inside. One guy that just recently left remarked that he was completely blind to things going on in the movement...until he left. Danny Layne manages to install such a film of fear and brainwashing that the people simply *cannot* see. Arguing is pointless, and only does more harm. It's a tragedy- so many of these people were dear friends of mine, and it breaks my heart that I'll never talk to most of them again. Ah well.. So yes...to those of you who have just left, or are still hurting from having left- take hope. There is healing, and there is incredible beauty when one follows the path that God will outline for you. Feel free to write me anytime. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
There is a free online Encycopedia called Wikipedia.One of Dannys faithful has put together a smooth explanation about the church of God Restoration on this site.They have it sounding like a good family oriented church.They also make it sound like they are a reflection and/or continuation of the old reformation movement? There is a feedback forum connected to the page.Only one man has has posted feedback and unfortunatly it is positive towards dannys group.Any one feel like posting some feedback on this site? I will as soon as I get the time. Lord bless | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.99 |
Hello there Gloria, it is truly wonderful to read how you all one by one have or are coming away from the clutches of this 'Restoration' cult. I believe it was Elizabeth who mentioned that it is one thing to come out of a cult, but quite another to have the cult come out of you (and your mind). Such requires time to unravel unfortunately. And it is especially difficult, because satan has woven for himself such a wide-spread web of religious deception...he knows there is a good chance that if we leave one religious group, we'll easily get tangled in another...because he has created such a smorgas-board of pseudo-christianity and religions...and he is the puppet master behind all of them. This is a little off topic, but in a round about way it ties back into the whole thing of religious deception and cults. For instance, Freemasonry is another cult (luciferian) whose purpose is to destroy Christianity - and they have successfully accomplished their goal. Most of the popular "christian" TV evangelists are 33-degree masons: Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Billy Graham, Tim Lahaye, Robert Schuller, Jerry Falwell just to name a few. And then you have the likes of Rick Warren with his "purpose driven" United Nations Agenda (One World Religion). And he in turn influences the seminaries, which influence the pastors of your local churches. And pretty much each one of those promotes a "gospel" different from the others - that's how you effectively create division. And no religion is more divided today than Christianity! (continue...) | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.99 |
I am not telling anyone what to do here, but I do ask you to please STAY ALERT...this is no time to slump back into the cozy pews and tolerant arms of the next "church" around the corner and become unaware - the churches of these days are under the strong delusion and will not lead you closer to Christ. Instead they will subtly lead you to embrace the ideology of "for the Greater Good" as a World Community and brotherhood - how we as a united community can make this a better planet (without GOD). The creeds of this "new world religion" are tolerance, love, unity, respect, brotherhood - and total intolerance for absolute truth, Jesus Christ and the Bible. It is a God-less, Christ-less, Bible-less religion going about to establish their own peace and kingdom. Jesus did mean for us to "come out of her" so as to not become part of the anti-christian movement and great lie unleashed upon the whole world at this time. STAY ALERT please! I did go and looked at most of your wedding pictures (Congratulations! by the way) and I also read your LONG letter to Daniel Layne. I believe I understand your intent of not wanting to condemn the man, but only his actions - and that is very recommendable. You were not in any way harsh or unkind in your letter. However, at times it almost sounded like you were praising him for the damage he inflicted upon your life. In my opinion, Danny Layne does not deserve any praise for anything "good" that might have come out of all the heartache - the one who deserve the praise is God alone, who by His grace redeemed the pieces and found a way to use them for your good. To say that "good" has come from Mr. Layne's mental abuse, would be the same as saying the child abuser did some great things for the child. Now, I do understand that this type of reasoning could still be a residual effect from the years of mental twisting and the instilled fear of not being allowed to ever say anything critical...even if it is the truth...for that would cause you to become "unsaved". It's the same tactic child abusers use on their victims, they threaten them not to say anything to anyone about the abuse, and that fear usually keeps the truth from ever being said. It is so very wicked! Now, as for me...I hold Danny Layne responsible and guilty for every life he has damaged...UNTIL he repents and changes his ways (should God grant him that grace). He is wrong in what he is doing and a danger to vulnerable young minds and needs to repent...period! This is the best advice anyone could give him now. (continued...) | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.99 |
In regards to the rest of your letter and journey...your "recovery story" is very similar to my own. I think most of us had to undergo some drastic recovery or "detox" for the first while, just to re-learn how to function in life and how to even look at God without the completely warped sense of constant wrath and condemnation in the back of our minds. I have shared it in part with Elizabeth and 'letnomandeceiveyou' ,but I think it may perhaps be of some benefit if I shared parts of it again for the FactNet audience. By the way, the only way any of you might remember me and my family is by the way we were dubbed by the Chilliwack congregation as "the Albertans" being from Alberta, Canada. After our experience with the CoG back in 1990/91, having been disfellowshipped and condemned to hell by the ministers and followers - it dealt a major blow to my faith and christian life. First, I fell into a very dark depression for several months, it was like the bottom was knocked out from under my feet, I was reeling into nowheres. But God was gracious and faithful and He unlocked my darkness one day by giving me a bible verse - 1.Samuel 16:1 - and it literally felt like a key had been stuck into my mind and unlocked the prison, light and hope came back into my life. But I was so very broken at that point, that I told God I needed a "vacation" from Him and everything that had the slightest to do with religion or spirituality for a while - just so I could "find myself" again. I believe He understood my need and allowed me this respite, which I am sure others would have defined as a sign of total backsliding. Frankly, at that point I was so numb and deadened in my senses, that I just didn't CARE what anyone thought I was, I had recently been condemned to hell - and there isn't any place worse you CAN possibly end up at, right? I was at point zero! The days turned into weeks and weeks into months, and I simply enjoyed a carefree life. I did not drift into the opposite extreme of gross darkness and all loss of self-respect for my life as some people seem to do, in order to fight the demons of wrong that had been inflicted on them in the name of God - I never did like the devil, and I surely had no intentions of joining his camp and allow him to destroy me in other ways! But, my rebellion or "revolution" manifested more in me not praying or reading the bible, and I would not be thinking of God at all. I was literally de-toxing from an overdose of religion...and it felt good...freeing...my normal sense of life was returning to me and I began looking at the world around me through different eyes again. I felt not an ounce of guilt. And the amazing thing was...God was not condemning me! (continued...) | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.99 |
After about 4 or 5 months of this detox time, I noticed that my hunger for God was slowly reappearing...and I began talking to God again, and picked up the bible and began reading with an empty, fresh mind. The Words were fresh and exciting, and I was able to read and learn without the previous distorting lenses of grace-less "indoctrination". Jesus was showing me who He really was and how He wants to live His life in and through me. It's neither the color nor the style of clothing, nor the length of hair or length of beards which determine our holiness. It's Christ within, and Him alone that makes us anything...and His heart and mind revealed through these earthen vessels. Christ means freedom, joy and a full life...not entirely void of suffering, but it's a suffering for an entirely different reason and purpose when it comes to us. That kind of suffering is comparable to the kind, when young lovers are apart for more than they can stand. It is a heart thing... ask any young person, how much suffering they would be willing to endure for the one they love? And so it would be when suffering for Christ. It is for love! It is a good thing to sit down and re-evaluate everything you have ever been taught about God, don't be afraid to take an honest look at it all, even question it all. As for "Christianity" as a belief system, I must say that it has completely failed humanity. I was musing the other day and came to the conclusion that Christianity is the greatest mess of all religions in the world. Is there anything "good" that can be said about Christianity at all? You may be wondering how I maintain a sound belief in God with that kind of attitude toward Christianity. Well, it is actually not all that hard to do. I have "divorced" Christianity from my belief in God, and I no longer equate the two in my mind. I believe, even God Himself would divorce the kind of Christianity we have to endure today. To get a clear and sane image of God and Christ today, we have no choice but to separate it from everything we were ever taught in the name of "christianity". It's much like being de-programmed from CoG doctrine, except you take it one step further to "Christianity". All you are left with then is Jesus and you! And that is the very basis for a life of wholeness for body, mind and soul. I pray that any of you who are coming out of this cult, will come to this realization in time and understand that you can have a vital relationship with Christ, without all the garbage humans added to it. God/Christ minus "christianity" = a wonderful thing! Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.99 |
Theophilos wrote: Now, as for me...I hold Danny Layne responsible and guilty for every life he has damaged...UNTIL he repents and changes his ways (should God grant him that grace). He is wrong in what he is doing and a danger to vulnerable young minds and needs to repent...period! This is the best advice anyone could give him now. I just realized that the above paragraph needs to be clarified...I am by no means singling out Danny Layne here, what I said about him equally holds true for ALL CoG "ministers" of the Restoration group, who continue to hold their congregations bound by control, condemnation and fear - YOU NEED TO REPENT and STOP BEATING GOD'S LAMBS! That message from Ezekiel 34 that was brought to you at the Nooksack Campground in 1990 still is a valid Word of God that you should heed carefully. This topic thread only mentions Daniel Layne as an "identifier" for the group, and NOT at all as the sole perpetrator of this mind-bending religious cult. Theophilos | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
the way I see it, the scripture says " my Word will not return to me void" or something like that depending what version you are reading. I quit looking at the messenger and only try and hear what the Lord might be saying to me. If there is no truth in what they say, then I just ignore it. If there is truth, then I accept it. maybe try and apply it to my life if I can. Somethings I accept as truth, but not something I can apply right now, either because I just don't feel like it( maybe it triggers a bad memory or reaction because of my past involvement in mind control) or I just can't, it is simply more than I can do right now. I just read some great Buddhist stuff that was absolutely true. Not that I am a Buddhist or that I think that Buddhism is the path to God, or that Buddha was the Enlightened One but it was still something true, so I believed it and am trying to apply it to my life. Heck, Buddhism is about as true as the CoG doctrine, so there we have that. The Pope had some great things to say in his Christmas Eve talk. Things that inspired me to be a better person. You just have to accept truth where ever it happens to appear! I am not against the decent churches that are trying to help people. Anything can become corrupt,even our own personal ideas. If we see something that causes us to see a red flag, then just move on...We can't change the world, we can't even change ourselves. All we can do is trust that a kind and loving God will be faithful to us and that He has our best interest at heart, and so then the path He leads us in will in the end lead us to Himself, where ever that is... The only people I stay away from are hypocrites that damage innocent people, and mess up lives, all for their own corrupt selfish power trip. And we all know/knew people like that, don't we???? There are over 5000 of these cult mind control groups in the USA and Canada. All doing the same damage, every day, every hour... And the most amazing thing is that they all use the exact same mind control tactics. All the way from Jim Jones to Scientology to our little Nooksack congregation. The very same pattern, over and over and over again. This tells me there is only one author of all this. Satan himself. I thank God every time I think about it for delivering us from the hands of the Devil who was bent on destroying me, my faith and my family. Thank God he didn't succeed. No matter how black it seems sometime, it is WAY better than still being in the CoG restoration. | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.208.162 |
Hi libbyathome, Very interesting to read of your experiences in the COG. Did you stay on with the Nooksack congregation when they split off from D. Layne and his group? Did some of the same tactics and teachings still continue on afterwards? | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
We left the CoG "denomination" Oct 14, 1999. The Nooksack congregation left the CoG denomination aprox Feb 2000. Si I can not speak from direct experience as to what happened either between those two dates or what happened afterwards. My husband and I have talked to a number of people on both sides of the isle so to speak since then and have tried to put together what we feel is an accurate picture of the situation. Like I said in an earlier post, it is one thing to get out of the cult, and another thing to get the cult out of you. Because of that, I have to speak with Mercy concerning the after effects that being a part of such a manipulative group had on the remainding members of the Nooksack congregation. My husband and I had the benifit of going to Wellspring Retreat and seeing exactly what it was we had been a part of, whereas the remainding members had only what we could try and share with them and they with us,in tiny bursts of communication. We had been shunned both by the denomination and the congregation, and that shunning did continue by the congregation for at least a year after Feb 2000. because we left before the BIG split, both sides seemed to want to blame our shunning on the other side. WE had numerous communications with Danny after we left and he really tried to blame the pastor of Nooksack. He personally phoned us several times and spoke with us for hours trying to help us to see it how he saw it.He said he had had to trust the reports he had gotten from the pastor, and go by his recommendations concerning us. We had been in the bad books of the leadership of our congregation for a couple of years because of two situations, both concerning the pastors wife and us ...#1. in disagreement over the childrens school and 2. a situation where she had disclosed some potentially explosive info to me that Danny had wanted to keep quiet. In retrospect the info she disclosed should have been shouted from the house tops as it was concerning a sexual abuse situation among the ministry. But in the climate of the group, she was in direct disobedience to the ministry, and received a serious disciplining because of what she had told me. My husband and I felt afterwards that the reports that Danny had received from our pastor were colored by his anger towards me in that he felt that I was somewhat responsible for his wifes being sat down,as I had been the one who had spilled the beans on her disclosure of the the sensitive info ( but in my defence, Danny had phoned me and asked me straight out if she had told me and I felt like I couldn't lie about it) | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Con't... of course, coloring the whole background of all the previous post was the situation I mentioned in my first post;where Susan Mutch, the editor of the Gospel Trumpet, and the 2nd in command in our congregation, had a C-section. I spoke to her personally after we ahd left the group and she blamed the Pastor and her husband for her operation as she said she wasn't in her right mind. The pastor and wittnesses said that she was in her right mind and knew exactly what she was doing. For those who do not know, this group declines ALL medical intervention both for simple sicknesses and for life threatening ones, and at the time even natural therapies and remedies were being called into question. WE had had a situation just a few years before in Nooksack where a young mother had died in childbirth( home birth with CoG "midwives") and another situation in Almyer where a young mother had had a C-section, and was disciplined by not being allowed to participate in the special singing group she was an integral part of. So the natural consequences of Susans operation should have been her being "sat down" and not permitted to be a minister/preacher until she repented and repeated her first works etc etc... Because Susan was such a powerful woman in the group, the fact that she had had this operation was kept completely hidden so as not to bring shame on the ministry...and so that she could continue to minister. About a year after Susans operation,my husband and I began to get an inkling that there was something being hidden , and so we confronted the ministry at a ministers meeting in California. Danny, Susan,and about 8 other ministers were there, and they all knew about Susans secret. Jeff said to them very clearly" there is something being hidden in the Chilliwack/Nooksack congregation" and they all vehemently denied any knowlege of such thing.Every one of them lied directly to our face. Later, we felt like the reason we began to be under such scrutiny was because if we had discovered the depth of hypocrisy being allowed in the group, I probably would have been like a raging lion in my anger at this. The ministers had to get the search light off of them and on to us to avoid detection. So we have a couple of different things happening here on on several levels. At the time of the BIG split, the local pastor didn't leave the group because he felt that the concept was wrong, but because they simply didn't want Danny to be in charge any more. It was around this time that the unsuspecting membersof the congregation found out about Susan's secret. Susan split with the congregation and moved to Alymer, along with a couple of others. Because of everyone being under such mind control, nothing much changed for the first few years.But the local pastor couln't keep such a tight control on the local people anymore, probably because he and his wife were just not powerful enough to inforce the rules with out back up by the main group. I want to be really careful here, as our best friends remained in the local congregation for three years after the Big split and they don't see it the way Jeff and I do. WE have had a lot of discussion on this but can't come to an agreement as to who to put the blame on for the mind control of the locsl congregation. They say it was all Danny, and we say the pastor had a big role in the control. Sufice to say there probably aren't any innocent parties in this. And I include myself in that as well. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Previous Post Continued: So to answer the original question, did the same tactics continue in the local congregation after the big split? Yes, for a period of time. Within three years there was little left of what had been a pretty substantial congregation. Most were just simply disallusioned and moved on to greener pastures.There is still a small group left in Chilliwck who are not really alligned with anyone. They do have monthly contact with Church of God EveningLight( Guthrie), but don't wholeheartedly embrace that denomination. I think the congregation is more of a discussion group now, with a couple of differing doctrinal viewpoints on several issues. But there is no main leader. The pastor and his wife wisely moved to a distant town where no one knew them. They backslid for a while, but are now going to a regular church, or so I hear... | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I keep mentioning mind control. If you Google "Mind Control Lifton" you can read about what I am talking about... | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.208.162 |
That is a lot of interesting information! Thanks, libbyathome. Very intriguing to hear what happened and how it affected so many. In searching online I also discovered a dispute about the property, the Nooksack campground? Who actually got control of it? | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
The court case concerning the Nooksack campground was held here in Bellingham Wa, where we live now, so I was able to attend two days of the hearings. Most of the Chilliwack congregation was there as well as a large number from the restoration, including DAnny and Susan. The campground was technically in the name of the Church of God Restoration. And they were the ones that sued for ownership saying that the property had become theirs when the congregation "joined " the restoration. The local congregation rebutted that they were the ones who had initially purchased the property. T%he judge was VERY astute and picked up on an interesting viewpoint. He said that churches can either be ruled heirarchal ( sp?) as the Roman Catholic church is, or ruled congregationally. Both types of church government are legal in the state of Washington. But the twist comes in that even if a congregation has decided to be ruled by a heirarchy, they can decide at any point to go back to being ruled congregationally, either by formal vote, or general consensus. He felt that as the whole congregation ( give or take 5-6 at that point) was representedly saying they wanted ownership back of the campground that they should have it back. So the local congregation retained ownership. They sold the property to a developer, who has torn down the tabernacle, turned the Memory House and dining hall into homes. and built the rest of the property up into a residential subdivision. Believe me it is quite a change!!!! It is VERY weird to drive by it now... The money went into an account owned by the congregation, and as far as I know is just sitting there. It has to be used for congregational needs such as purchasing a chapel or something like that. No one can take the money and spend it for themselves or even give it away to a person. | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.208.162 |
I did see the campground years ago, so that would be a substantial change. Kind of too bad that someone didn't get it for a good use and preserve it. It was almost like a preserved historical site. If I remember correctly, the tabernacle had a designation as a historical site, too. So if there is no real "congregation" now, does the money just kind of rot away? Interesting twist to the whole story, for sure. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I know there was some talk about returning the initial investment moneys that had been provided by different congregational members, plus some return. But I don't know exactly. I remember that the tabernacle had historical status, so it was quite sad that it was torn down. It would have taken someone or some group pretty dedicated to preserve the property for historical reasons. I think most of the congregation was just so sick of the whole thing they simply didn't care anymore. Something interesting about all of that is that there were a couple of neighbourhood families who are Christians who were quite disturbed by all the happenings and rumours surrounding the group. We stood out quite drasticily from any local churches, and these Christian neighbours had had some contact with cults before. They have told us since that they would walk around the campground on the road praying that God would stop what was going on there. They are still rejoicing that God answered their prayers... | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.197.102 |
That is very ironic that exactly what they prayed for, came to pass. Coincidence?? hmmm... It is indeed very interesting to hear all the different experiences and perspectives from those with experiences inside the CoGR. Isn't amazing that so many still stick around? Judging by the photos on their webpage, they seem to have a sizable crowd at their "international camp meeting" in Ohio as well as in several congregations, such as Aylmer, ON and Greenville, OH. At a camp meeting I went to a few years, I met a few people that "seemed" very nice and made a good impression, among them Jerry Tinsman from Indiana and some minister brothers originally from Mexico, David and Henry Hildebrandt. Is it people like that that put a good face on the group??? | ||
| gloriamarilyn New member Username: gloriamarilyn Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 142.161.231.214 |
Oh dear...the Hildebrandt brothers are NOT the ones that put a good face- they are one of the most corrupt factors in that group! David died a year ago, but Henry is as obnoxious as ever. Jerry Tinsman was a wonderful man, but he died about 2 years ago. The whole group can *seem* nice, but once you're deep in the belly of it (as I was), you see the true filth and corruption! | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I had a long phone conversation with letnomandecieveyou yesterday....I thought the Chilliwack/Nooksack congregation was rife with hidden sin...letnomandeceiveyou was involved with the Ohio congregation and what they told me about the hidden sin there caused me to just feel sick....May God have Mercy on any innocent people still in the clutches of this place of darkness. We have wittnesses to terrible sin in Chilliwack/Nooksack, Stienbach, Wisconsin,Ohio... anyone else have the goods on any other congregation? Not rumour, but actual experience. Legalism is a horrible deception that hides wickedness and terrible sins. The reasons so many still stay is the same reason we stayed for so long. Mind control and fear... when we left we had no one to help us. No one to explain what was happening to our minds. About a week after we left, I was standing in my kitchen and I had this horrible feeling come over me. The only thing I can relate it to was when I quit smoking back in 1982. It was like a drug withdrawl feeling. Being under mind control and then getting free can almost be like that. A few years later I shared that with a psyciatrist I saw for a while who was familiar with this phenomonom and he said it was not unusual to have a physcical withdrawl like I did. It is really humiliating to admit you were so deeply deceived. Especially after bragging to every person you have met for years that you are a part of Gods true church...It has taken me over 6 years to feel stong enough to even just write the stuff I have written here the past week... It is really hard to go it alone after breaking free from this group. We need to be available to help anyone trying to leave. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I had a long phone conversation with letnomandecieveyou yesterday....I thought the Chilliwack/Nooksack congregation was rife with hidden sin...letnomandeceiveyou was involved with the Ohio congregation and what they told me about the hidden sin there caused me to just feel sick....May God have Mercy on any innocent people still in the clutches of this place of darkness. We have wittnesses to terrible sin in Chilliwack/Nooksack, Stienbach, Wisconsin,Ohio... anyone else have the goods on any other congregation? Not rumour, but actual experience. Legalism is a horrible deception that hides wickedness and terrible sins. The reasons so many still stay is the same reason we stayed for so long. Mind control and fear... when we left we had no one to help us. No one to explain what was happening to our minds. About a week after we left, I was standing in my kitchen and I had this horrible feeling come over me. The only thing I can relate it to was when I quit smoking back in 1982. It was like a drug withdrawl feeling. Being under mind control and then getting free can almost be like that. A few years later I shared that with a psyciatrist I saw for a while who was familiar with this phenomonom and he said it was not unusual to have a physcical withdrawl like I did. It is really humiliating to admit you were so deeply deceived. Especially after bragging to every person you have met for years that you are a part of Gods true church...It has taken me over 6 years to feel stong enough to even just write the stuff I have written here the past week... It is really hard to go it alone after breaking free from this group. We need to be available to help anyone trying to leave. Jeffeliza@comcast.net | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
The COG Restoration beleives the lords will is to gather together his elect at this end time. They firmly believe they are that gathering. If this were true then they went apostate at record speed because of their awful spiritual condition .The bible says as it was in the days of noah so shall it be at the coming of the son of man.Jesus also asked a question about the end time he said will he find faith when he returns?This I believe is a hint that true faith will be a scarecity. The word also says in the last days perilous times shall come men shall be lovers of themselves,proud etc,etc etc, I know since the fall of the early morning churchs around 270 A.D. and the falling away of the Churchs of God At Anderson in 1910 the saved have existed in a scattered remnant all over the world.I believe the church as a large body like we read about is gone forever. She is back in the wilderness to stay until the coming of the lord. No matter how much someone may dream,wish,hope and pray for restoration.If it isnt in Gods plan (will) and God does'nt bring people together then God is'nt in it period! No matter how hard you try to walk,talk,eat,sleep,or dress church of God doctrine.It is a thing of the past as far as the unity and will never happen again on a large scale. Look at this world and tell me how you can get people to live a holy life in large groups that could function as a real living body that truly had love and wisdom on a grand scale.This is something we can only read and dream about. Dannys group is exactly this kind of a DREAM turned into a NIGHTMARE by his man rule) A Grand Self Generated Illusion based on historic head knowledge obtained through books and photo's.One dead give away is the way danny is dressing his deluded followers in turn of the century clothing. Black and white 1880 clothing is not the bible standard FOR THE YEAR 2007. TO BE CONTINUED | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I know my ramblings may be a bit depressing concerning the condition of (The church) But I am happy the lord showed this to me. I know now how to properly view things. The lord said where two or three are gathered together in my name there will I be also. I now also believe there are good ministers/pastors and other saved souls out in this world that would be a blessing to meet and get to know. The restoration tries to imply that finding a saved soul outside of their group would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I believe the opposite is true. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I added a comment to the Wikipedia article. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I added a comment to the Wikipedia article. | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 49 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.99.121 |
letnomandeceiveyou, I wouldn't call it depressing so much, but rather you are being realistic. Even scripture tells us in Daniel that the power of the holy people will be "scattered" (dashed in pieces) in the last days. Dan 12:7 - Although this appears to be speaking directly of the final reign of the Anti-Christ and the wasting and wearing out of the people of God, there is no question that we are or even already have entered into that very time of scattering, breaking in pieces and wasting. The body of Christ is a scattered entity, much like the Jewish people are a nation scattered abroad in exile. I have always wondered if the Jewish and Gentile believers represent the two witnesses of Revelation. Anyways, not intending to steer the discussion off topic with this. Just wanted to give you a bit of encouragement. Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com (Message edited by fellow2 on January 21, 2007) | ||
| fellow2 Junior Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.36 |
Bernie Tocholke brdtocholke@netzero.net seems to be experiencing problems registering his own login for FactNet, therefore I will be posting his thoughts to the forum for him: I appreciate that people are into finding out the truth about the dangerous cult named Church Of God Restoration. I was with the group almost 10 years. It is easy to get decieved by them since they seem so nice. They have great accapella singing, and they are also very willing to help you if you are taking steps in their direction. However my warning to you is to analize the hidden shadows that you will have to feel instead of see. But once you know the "feel" of what I am talking about, it might be to late. You see, I am a victim of the cult because I "felt" too late the danger and my marriage is destroyed. I went into it happily married. I left it after the pastor told my wife to leave me. Why and when did she leave me? The cult has many crazy rules. One of them was that you can't skip church service without the Pastors permission. My Mom died suddenly in January of 2002. My Dad and siblings were getting together in memory of Mom on Easter Sunday March 30, 2002. I told Shereen(wife) that I would love to go to that. It was Saturday, and she started arguing that we didn't have permission. After a while arguing, I told her I needed to finish some tree cutting before I could leave Kenosha anyway, about two hours. I told her I would appreciate a different answer when I got back. Upon my return, I was in shock that she had abandoned me that day. I didn't know that, that would be the last time I would ever hug or kiss her. She moved in with the pastor that day. I tried to contact her by phone, by letter, and finally got the nerve to walk up to the pastors door. When they opened the door and saw it was me, they forcefully slammed the door in my face. Does that sound like the most loving people you will ever meet? Please go to my website www.screwedkenoshastyle.com . To get a better understanding on how they operate, please read the "Forked Tongue Derailment". They will decieve you if you don't know their language, and I am not referring to a language that you can get a dictionary on. They have and are deceiving Policemen, Judges, Investigators, and possibly even you unless they understand the two fold meanings behind their speach. For them to say that every saved individual is the Church is a Forked tongue lie, as one example. Get in the group for a while and "feel" what they really mean, and it is different that what you understand. Let us understand the Rat Poison product. It is made up of 99.99% good corn and oats. Go read the label yourself. It is just like the group with all the good things that the onlooker can see. But go ahead and partake of it for a while and then you will know the truth too late. Why do the Cult ministers have to hide their sins from their members? Do their members know about the Susan Mutch C-section, and that she signed her own papers? Do they know that Danny Layne took a Hargrave to a gay bar? They hide important information from their people. con't... | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.36 |
continued for Bernie Tocholke brdtocholke@netzero.net: What I find amusing (and scary) is their score key. Suppose I started a cult with a lot of sound doctrine. After I get a few recruits I bring up the commands that Jesus taught us to pick up our cross daily. I build myself a literal cross and carry it to work everyday. Soon my entire group does the same. We have a whole list of human reasoning why we do it. Then somebody of us finally wakes up spiritually to the stupidity of this and leaves. All of us back in the camp rejoice that we are still the One and Only, for it is obvious that the departed is backslidden. We spotted him uptown and he is not carrying the cross anymore. Our own score key(not the Bibles) proves him wrong. The cult has their own score key and have a monopoly on the mind of God. Nobody else not even Jesus has that light, right? It is mandatory to call amongst their own members every time the "Brother" or "Sister" attachment to every members name. Isn't it strange that the appostles or even Jesus didn't have that light? Jesus never said Brother Peter, Brother James, And Brother John. He never said Sister Mary, or Sister Martha. It amazes me that the Cult has more light than Jesus did,...or do they? Search the scriptures as the Bereans did. It was commended in the Bible, but is labeled as free thinking by the Cult. I will continue later as why I believe it is a cult. You shall know them by their fruit(product). Their product lies and is not Christ-like. Press forward until death, Bernie Tocholke (Message edited by fellow2 on January 21, 2007) | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.36 |
From Bernie Tocholke brdtocholke@netzero.net : When I first was kicked out of the cult, I had to do some real soul searching and thinking to reason if I left the One True Church like I had been taught for the previous 8-10 years. It was revealed to me by the Ungodly behavior and lies that I heard after that, that I knew I had not made a mistake. My experience with the members of the cult including my wife, showed me that this cult is not of God. The "Forked Tongue Derailment" is only a part of the lies I heard and experienced. I will try to add to that list now. When I went to the O'Shea's (pastors) house to talk to my wife, that they were hiding from me, I had the door slammed in my face. The first explanation I heard of why that happened, was because they didn't know that I wanted to talk to or see Shereen. That concept couldn't hold any value so they soon changed their story. Next they told me that Sue O'Shea was immodest and that is the reason they shut the door. First of all, it was not just shut, it was slammed. Next if she was immodest, why was the door opened when someone knocked? I saw she had her nightrobe on which reached down to her ankles. Next her 18 year old son was right there, and does she expose her immodesty to him? The truth is that they had to tell a lie, to try to cover up their ungodly behavior. When Shereen was told to leave me because I wasn't abiding to the Church rules, they waited for my next Church violation to follow through with it. It happened when I wanted to go to grieve with my family about a month later. After that I heard another bunch of lies. First that she didn't leave me. I stated that she didn't live in the same house that was inscribed on her Drivers License. The comeback was that she didn't leave me because she still had her stuff in my house. Is that the definition of leaving, to have all your stuff gone to leave? How many people take all their stuff when they leave this Earth? Is their explanation actually a lie? con't... | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.36 |
continued from Bernie Tocholke brdtocholke@netzero.net : I wanted to take the children on my day to see some airplanes. I wanted to change the times to 3 hours later. That started a argument. She refused unless she could come to my house and get some of her stuff.I said what do you want, I will get it for you. She refused that idea too. I finally had to give in to allow her to come with a friend. It was a setup looking back. Upon her arrival she introduced me to Tiffany. I didn't know she was a womans rights, men hater that knew her laws. When they entered my house, Shereen immediatly pulled out a camera. I said no pictures. She said oh yes I can and proceded. I reached for the camera, and immediatly she starts screaming, and moves the camera quickly up and down. I heard Tiffany behind me yell to keep my hands off of her. I turned around and saw her on the phone calling 911, and giving the address. Shereen kept screaming even though I was not touching her. I told Randy my 16 year old son to get the camera. He did. I was arrested that day because she told the Police that I hurt and bruised her wrists. She lied to get me arrested. How can I at about 200# and a logger, not be able to get the camera out of her hand (if I grabbed her wrist), while my 16 year old son got the camera without hurting her wrist. She put a restaining order on me with lies. Why did she scream? When I wanted to fight it in court, the DA told me that all 911 phone calls are recorded, and if there is screaming in the background, I am automatically guilty. Tiffany knew the laws, and Shereen played the part including the lies. When you try to leave the cult, and your spouse is brainwashed by it, beware you will be taken through a battlefield. The sad thing is they will lie to accomplish what their goal is. Experieces like that, I know I didn't leave the One True Church. I would like you to go to my website and listen to the recordings. I have installed some of Danny Layne's, Susan Mutch's sermons, and also some of their fanatical singing. Please check it out. | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.36 |
http://www.screwedkenoshastyle.com/Cult/Audio/JudgementToCome32.mp3 Above is Susan Mutch's clobbering sermon...(if you choose to listen to it, ask God to protect your minds) and I remember that all sermons had that very "judgement" tone to them...quite honestly and sadly I have to say, to be under that tone sunday after sunday either turns you into a mental case - curled up into a ball in a corner somewhere. Or you "split" from your identity (dissociation) and begin living a complete lie. My God, those poor people - there just is no respite ever is there? The only Hope is made out to be a fiery dragon, and who wants anything to do with that kind of a God. Thanks be to God that Jesus has become our true perpetual Sabbath Rest, where we can finally cease from our own works of righteousness as well as all unrighteousness. There is a rest for the people of God! Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
letnomandeceiveyou is getting ready to start a web site and we are going to clearly document all of the instances of physical abuse and death caused by the group.Also offer a discussion form where we can express ourselves. Ten web sites wouldn't be enough to expose this group....but we can only do what we can... I would like us to think about how we can make these people accountable for the damage that has been done. I know that eternal vengance will be Gods perogative, but if we can do something to get these people back into the public light by exposing their dark deeds, maybe we can stop others from getting involved... this discussion page is great, but we need to get all this info more public.... any and all ideas will be appreciated...lets brainstorm!! jeffeliza@comcast.net (Message edited by Libbyathome on January 21, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
1 John 4:1 says Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Danny quotes over and over again smite me and it will be a kindness unto me. So I will be direct and to the point. Danny teaches much about breaking the silence that is in heaven (The church) With the lords help I want to break the silence in his heaven. I know he will think its just another personal attack.But it is based upon the witness and testimnony of many people including some still in his group. I will say it because it is evident nobody seems to have the courage to break the news to him. Danny still sounds gay and makes effeminate looking gestures when he talks on a personal level? He claims to have found the cleansing fountain over 27 years ago. How is it that he still retains these characteristics? I have heard him preach against men acting effeminate? Many people that I have talked with about this problem of his say they see it in him also. A person close to him and still a member of his group admitted to seeing it also. But they tried to explain it away by saying once you have been a homosexual it is hard to get completely over it ?? Again I have personally heard him preach against men being effeminate?? In my assessment this makes him hypocritical. The only logical reason I can think of as to why he still retains such characteristics is that he does’nt see it in himself. It must be that he has created such man fear that nobody dares say a word when they discern anything wrong with him. That is ironic, the very message this prophet claims to be delivering “breaking the silence in heaven” is not happening in his group. His Man rule &(Fear)He has created has silenced his smiters in his fantasy Church of God. Again no one in his group dares admonish him! (Other men in his group sound effeminate also.) It is known he used to be a gay prostitute before he got saved back in 1980. Back around 2000 it is well known that he took some young brethren to a gay establishment? How did he end up at a gay establishment? (Since he used to be one?)with two young brothers? An old saying says: “It takes one to know one” One of the brothers bought tokens in order to use the bathroom (as is the practice at Gay establishments and Danny knows why!) Where was this prophets discernment? His group has moved on after this fact came to light and tries to forget and excuse this visit of his. They all wholesale ignore his unclean spirits and excuse the obvious fact he still retains gay mannerisms.How could any one in good conscience have confidence in him? In all fairness I think he needs to explain why and/or how he is able to still claim to be a Christian, let alone some kind of apostle or prophet and still act and sound unnatural (Effeminate) (Especially after having 27 years worth of time to get clean?) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
During the split in 2000 Danny was finally being made to account by several ministers for his non-chrisitain like behavior. As Danny did then and still is doing today he went on the offense. He called an emergency meeting in Huber Heights Ohio and had an arrogant young minister get up in front of the whole congregation (With all the young children present)He had his boy Ray do some dirty work for him. He pronounced that one of the afore mentioned ministers had made sexual advancements toward his own mother in law! (The minister had been falsley accused three years prior of making sexual advancement toward his own mother in law.) After investigating the allegations Danny cleared this same minister to preach again. Later the accusing mother in law retracted her accusation saying she was’nt in her right mind. (She had mistakenly thought her son in law made advances on her while trying to comfort her while she was suffering a heart problem.) She asked forgivness for this and Danny accepted her back into the fold and all was forgiven right ? Wrong! What do you think Danny did? Instead of asking the minister and the whole church to forgive him for an abominable slander he proceeded to to show his legalistic prowness by coming out with a statement saying that the accused minister didn’t really mean to make a sexual advancement, but the act of rubbing his afflicted mother in laws back and feet is what constituted the “sexual advancement”? (There was a woman in the bible that washed Jesus feet by rubbing them using her hands,hair and tears?) What really happened is Danny avoided being held accountability for slander in the worst form. Even if his judgement was right in some twisted way? He would still be guilty of gross irresponsible by allowing an unclean minister to preach for three years after completly clearing him of this this nasty false accusation. This fact alone concerning this one incident would completely shake my confidence in him. As to date he still has’nt repented of this of sin of bearing a false witness against this brother. Add this short list up: It took three years to finally decide a brother was unclean, He still sounds inordinate after 27 years. He lied and keep hid the Susan much debacle, He took brothers to eat at a gay establishment. He took ex-members to court trying to use legalize to take a camp ground he didn’t pay for? He was receiving a check from the state of California for many years for a mental disability while claiming to be an apostale/prophet? I would think an apostales/prophets would live a more careful life. Dannys heaven needs to get real noisy! Lets pray for Dannys salvation! | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Some times I just feel SO stupid that when we saw things like this we didn't say something or even allow ourselves to think..."hey, what about this?" We were so caught up in our spiritual fairy tale, we couldn't see what was happening right before our eyes. I had to repent in tears for worshipping an idol for so many years. How long did I ride over the Holy Spirit, listening to the ministry instead of the True Comforter? I don't even remember the first time I overlooked the voice of God and the scriptures, but I remember when in an instant the Lord showed me my sin...I was in complete shock...How could I, who was supposed to be a part of the Holy Church of God, be an Idol worshipper? By lifting the church and the ministry higher that God Himself...by esteeming their words more than I esteemed the Holy Bible... For ever even for the shortest second believing that the ministry was the voice of God to my soul.....I am still repenting...it worked such a deep sorrow and carefulness in me that I hope to never stray away from sound Bible teaching again. Thank God for writers like Martin Lloyd Jones, and RC Sproul, and John Piper who can give us clear insight onto the gospel.These men taught me how to read the Bible and find out the truth in it for myself... Letnomandeceiveyou...what about all that abuse you wittnessed? Are you going to mention that here??? (Message edited by libbyathome on January 22, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Hey Elizebeth you missed me by three minutes :-) Read the three posting above you! Lord bless | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Hey! you're up late!! It's 12:48 am here so its 3:48 there???are you up early or to bed late?? hahaha! I was having a hard time posting,we must have been posting at the same time!Jeff will laugh about that! | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I am sick and running a fever I can't sleep so I thought I would do a little silence breaking. Good night tell jeff hello and lets pray for Danny and his Imaginary church. | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.90 |
Hey letnomandeceiveyou, if you need something to help with your fever there is an interesting "cure" at this link... Could be worth a try. http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/fever.html Theophilos | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.90 |
Another post from Bernie Tocholke brdtocholke@netzero.net : I would like to give an example of the cults twisted inconsistencies of the scripture, that I always had in the back of my mind, especially when I was with them. They have such a hatred for gold that nobody wears it, or even has it in their house, like gold door knobs. Knowing what his answer would be ahead of time, I asked my minister, Pat O'Shea, of where does it say that we can't have a gold watch. He right of way directed me to I Peter 3:3, and pointed out "wearing of gold". Let us tear that scripture apart and get the entire content out. First, it starts in verse one, "Likewise, ye wives ". My house has never been my wife, and it doesn't have a gender. Or are there male or female doorknobs? Next, the verse says, "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning". I told Pat what that meant to me is that the women should not focus on the outward things, to put pride into themselves by how fancy they can decorate themselves. He said No, that is not quite right because it is clear by the Church that we don't wear gold. Then I told him, to be consistent. Gold is only one of the three things mentioned. The first is Plaiting (weaving things into your hair) the hair. How many men do that? The Cult says-NO! The second, wearing of gold. The Cult says-NO! But then the overlooked third, the putting on of apparel! (clothes) To be consistent..The Cult says-NO! Don't wear clothes,gold, or plait hair. Absurd? It is, but taught as truth without proper balance. That is the Free Thinker part that got me in trouble. When O'Shea erupted the time that he said Shereen needs to leave me, he told me that he did what he could to keep my marriage together. He was told to break it up a while back by somebody, but he thought I would come around to their way of thinking, and was working to get me that way. But I just blew it, when I portray such Free Thinking, uncontrollable spirit. Do you have any ideas on who the someone was that wanted to break up my marriage earlier? Could that someone be an effeminate person that uses the other ministers to do the dirty work for him? He wants the victims to think of him as a nice man while the local pastors are the tyrants. The Cult has such a gift of intimidation. I remember the Cult has had their representation at every one of my court Hearings. I don't ever remember a Hearing that Sue O'Shea was not there. One time the Cult scheduled a meeting around the date of one of my court dates. Once in the Court room at my table, I decided to turn around to see who was all there. At least the back two benches were filled up with Cult members. All I could see was penguins all dressed up black and white. Danny Layne was there. Yes, they are a master at intimidation. Have you seen the hateful excommunication letter on my website? It makes me sick. | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.32.90 |
Tammy Peacy tammy_peacy@yahoo.com asked me to post the following for her: Hello. My name is Tammy Peacy and I am working on a project with Bernie Tocholke (see www.screwedkenoshastyle.com for more information) on exposing this cult in book format. I would be interested in any information you would like to share. Also, I am looking for a copy of Danny Layne's book "He Lifted Me Out." Would you know where I can find this? Thank you for your time. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Hi Bernie Your not alone in your battle anymore.We are working on documenting Every death,Every Divorce,Every Slander Etc.I know many would just like to forget about the whole mess.But dont you think the one who wants us to lay down and shut up the most is Mr layne and his followers? This is exactly when Mr Layne would pray for silence in his heaven. Lets dont be cowards! Get your Trombones, Tubas And Trumpets and lets make some noise! Lets do our part to warn honest souls by writing our testimonies about this group.Most of us are busy people but in your spare time please write down your expererances.The more we get the bigger the witness against them.I know we all have been wounded by this man and his group but we dont want to show any bad attitudes just the facts.If we display a wrong spirit how will others have confidnece in what we say? We can all agree that the biggest problem with Mr layne is that he is not a rational man. Let's dont let him/them rub off on us and if they choose to engage us in verbal warfare,lets pray and ask the lord to direct what we say. I love the way of the lord. You dont have to lean to our own understanding. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
your own understanding (I mean ) | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
ok..a woman who is in contact with Bernie has sent me a questionaire she wants us to all fill out and send back.She is wanting to compile info and possibly start working on a book.... what do you all think of this? | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Tammy- Some ex-members are coming for supper on Saturday and I'll see if they might have a copy of Dannys book...also I will send out some emails enquiring... | ||
| whereistruth New member Username: whereistruth Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.58.208.162 |
For those of you that have left for some years already, has this experience been following/haunting you? I have heard of people being affected to the point they can't sleep at night, etc. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Danny tells his gullable group that all those who leave his group have left because they are spiritually weak.The truth is he is right.All who leave his group been have weakened spiritually by his kind of religion.His mean spirited,arrogant,mind controlling,manipulative,perverted,ignorant,lying,love devoid,Godless doctrine is what makes up his two fold child of hell gospel. It is urgent for anybody with an inside knowlege of this hell factory to tell their story so we can slow down and hopefully stop this evil man Danny Layne.If you are afraid he will keep you from seeing your family you can post your letter anounomosly. Email one of us and we will tell how to. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Danny tells his gullable group that all those who leave his group have left because they are spiritually weak.The truth is he is right.All who leave his group been have weakened spiritually by his kind of religion.His mean spirited,arrogant,mind controlling,manipulative,perverted,ignorant,lying,love devoid,Godless doctrine is what makes up his two fold child of hell gospel. It is urgent for anybody with an inside knowlege of this hell factory to tell their story so we can slow down and hopefully stop this evil man Danny Layne.If you are afraid he will keep you from seeing your family you can post your letter anounomosly. Email one of us and we will tell how to. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
The name of Danny Laynes book is: He lifted me out In his book Danny tells alot about his past. I did take the time read his book again since leaving his group and it really opened my eyes as to what is wrong with this false apostale/prophet. He spent 19 years as an heroin addict. In the book he omits that he was a gay prostitute but may make some slight reference to it. He tried to commit suicide several times, once by trying to cut his arms off with a meat clever. He tried to kill himself another time by trying to inject himself with an overdose of speed. He had some so called friends that also tried to kill him. They fooled him into thinking they were going to give him some free drugs instead they injected him with some kind of poison and it nearly killed him. After barely surviving this attempt on his life. As soon as he was able to walk he went straight back to the same so called friends who tried to kill him with the crazy thought that he could tell them how bad they were and somehow regain their friendship. They proceeded to try and kill him again but this time with baseball bats. He really lived a terrible existence during this time. The lord can use anybody in his work but we reap what we sow and our past can affect the way we are now. In his youth he was religious and became fanatical, (from what I hear) He fasted for 6 days with a burden to save some friends souls. I guess they didn’t yield and this discouraged him. After graduation from high school. He was supposed to go and live with a minister. The minister was a well liked and respected Guthrie Church of God preacher named Ostis Wilson. From what I understand Danny never moved in with him. He got discouraged and backslide and made his way out into sin. He says when he went into sin he didn’t go half heartedly he jumped in with both feet and went wholeheartedly. The story goes one drug led to another and it wasn’t long before he was addicted to heroin. He began to live on the streets of San Fransisco & Hollywood. He spent 4 years of this 19 year time span incarcerated (off and on) in the San Fransisco and possibly Hollywood jails. He said the lord talked with him one day and asked him" have you had enough? He called his parents and told them he wanted to come home and get his life together. They didn’t believe him at first because he had called many times before and they would take him back in and he would go right back to the drugs. They gave him another chance and he did start to change but it was slow he wouldn’t cut his long hair at first and he had a hard time quiting smoking. He became religious again. (He must have forgotten about his slow start because he demands perfection from the very start of newborns joining his group?) I think Danny started going to his parents church at first. It was an Anderson church of God. Sometime later (maybe a year or so) he left them and started going to a Guthrie associated church of God. I don’t know exactly when he started preaching maybe 2 or 3 years after claiming salvation. He was very loud and bold in his preaching and this caused a huge stir in the Guthrie group. They started trying to limit where he could preach and tried to rein him in under their control but he would have none of it. He soon left and others followed him. This was the start of his restoration group. I believe he may have had good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intention. He had come from 19 years in some of the vilest kinds of sins | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
It is evident Danny Laynes started preaching prematurely he still had many internal issues that he has never dealt with completely. He has not received the cleansing he needed to make himself a vessal clean for the masters use. He hides his wolves tail by using a blend of his scriptural knowledge,whit,charisma,street smarts and Oh yeh clothing, lots of clothing! It is evident he still retains some of the bad attitudes and/or spirits he acquired while out in sin. When you join his group you must accept insults and abuses from anyone in their ranks without complaining. I had a problem with a brother who was being very rude and dominering to me I told danny about it. His answer to me was to let the man continue to dominate me? He didnt say he would take care of it or pray for the man or try and forbear it, only: let him dominate you? Anyone who tells about an insult or abuse is admonished for not taking the abuse. They never teach a God of love, grace, judgement and mercy? It is only a God of judgement! Condemnation and fear is their never ending theme. To them God is always standing over you with a stick ready to strike you for every little thing you do wrong? The scriptures say to love one another and forbear one another. On occasion their may be a need to admonish a brother or sister. The bible teaches if a man be overtaken in a fault ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness. But to promote a gospel that says you need to constantly insult, ridicule and beat on one another relentlessly is twisted. How is that love? If we love one another then we have fulfilled the law and the prophets. They also don’t teach about humility, patience and kindness. The way they express their kindness to each other is through insulting each other? One of Danny themes is that everyone is to thin skinned. Ray Tinsman got up at a meeting and said we (the ministers) are going to have to do something about this MAMBEE PAMBEE LOVE BUSINESS! (They must have detected someone showing real love and was taking a stand against it.) They preach about not using certain slang words like man,cool or calling children kids. What is Mambee Pambee love business? is that HolyTalk ? I thank God for opening my eyes to these double standard hypocrites. Many of the things they preach against they do themselves. They preach about the same subjects over and over and over and over again. Thier number one repetitious sermon is about taking a beating like wheat getting beat on the threshing floor. Another they drill into your head is coming under Danny’s and his ministries control Another repetitious story they cant seem to get enough of is the story of Annanias and Saffira They love to expound on how the young men carried the dead bodies of Annanias and Saffira out. They seem to relish this passage and use it to good effect to scare and intimidate the flock. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
On Child Abuse I witnessed alot of child abuse while in dannys circus. He would state that an infant crying during one of their meeting was just the devil trying to interupt the meeting? Some of the members took him seriously because when their baby would start to cry during one of their meetings they would cup that little babies mouth and carry it to the back room where you could hear them commence to beat the devil out of the poor little creature. You could count up to 100 licks sometimes. The reason nobody in their group views this as child abuse is because they teach you have to break a childs spirit and to do this you have beat it out of the child through spanking. It is well known about the canadian child abuse cases. But if all the abuse would come forward by those who witnessed it,I would say it would fill a book. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I was walking just behind Danny Layne at the Nooksack campground one year. Walking with him was several boys. One of the boys expressed to Danny a desire to get into the tape ministry. Dannys reply to the boy was: you will have to become a tape worm first. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
The lord told me to know them that labor among you. The lord was instructing me to get to know the ministry. So following the lords instruction I approached Danny Layne one day while attending the Nooksack campmeeting. I thought I would start off the conversation by stating I thought he looked like abraham lincoln with the new beard he had started to grow. His spontanious reply was: I think you look like laurel and hardy! He said oops and quickly cupped his mouth with his hand. He looked around him to make sure that no one had heard him. I told him he had better watch that! And that was the end of our conversation. He offered no appolagies. That encounter helped me to get to know him alright. It pays to follow the lords leadings | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Laurel and Hardy were a comedy duo who became famous during the early half of the 20th century for their work in motion pictures. The members of the duo were the thin Stan Laurel and his heavier American partner. Basically danny was calling me a fat clown. Danny insulted me while I was complimenting him? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
PROVERBS 18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. Evidently Danny Layne has'nt found this scripture. He got stuck in revelations. | ||
| libbyathome New member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
OMGosh...THE ANANIAS and SAPPHIRA message.... we got that one a lot...and how the young men( the ministers) were going to be waiting at the door to carry out our dead bodies ....GAG....what a bunch of poop...excuse my metaphor... and all because I was crying asking them what I had done that was SO wrong???? I guess by me being honest in their minds that is lying to the Holy Ghost????? Jeff got this one right....to the pure all things are pure, and TO THE EVIL ALL THINGS ARE EVIL.....everything is evil to them. Colors are evil, fun is evil, reading good books is evil, loving your unsaved family is evil, wives loving their husbands and children first instead of the church( them) first is evil,wanting to homeschool is evil,getting along with your unsaved neighbors is evil...etc.... I am very thankful that now I am healed of the fear I had of these people. I am healed in my mind and in my heart.I can live each day knowing I am living in the love of God. Sometimes I get angry knowing they are still playing the same wicked games with some of Gods little sheep. Sometimes I feel resentful at the loss of my youth etc etc...but most of the time I just feel sorry for them.... I wrote to one of the ministers husbands a few days ago...we had been friends before the group ( 25 yrs ago) I got such a harsh reply..I am so thankfull that I don't have that harsh and hateful spirit....anymore.... " For he that loves God with all of his heart is neither afraid of death, nor judgment,nor punishment,nor of hell; for perfect love gives secure access to God..." | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I think jeff hit the nail smack on the head. Hey how about writng a few songs of parody Heres a few ideas for titles: 1.Dont give me them Mambee Pambee love blues. 2.Im going to make you love me! 3.I can see clearly now that Dannys gone 4.There's no singers like dans singers like no singers at all! 5.Just beat it.........beat it! 6.When the full moons out i'll be howling for you | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
7. Slip sliding away 8. Silence is golden 9. Blessed quietness 10. I get high on foolin all of you 11. Thers no such thing as fanaticism! 12. Sieg Hiel! to Danny 13. Money Money Money Money...........Money | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou New member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
14. Swing yer partner round and round smacker in the head and knocker down | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I wrote these song titles in humore. I hope everyone can relate. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Some may ask why I stayed as long as I did? The answer would be family. Some times we think mother,sister,grandpa etc, Surley they know what they are doing when we follow them to the local church. I dont think that way no more! I do not trust my families judgment anymore forevermore. My grandapa who was one of the ones who put a good face on dans group. He did denounce them at the end of his life. but they would'nt believe you if you told them that. He said he saw the evil in some of the brothers that were coming to his house. Two reprobate laynites were supposedly helping my feeble minded dying Grandpa when grandpa asked if they thought his wife mildred was saved? They said No she is not saved? This was the wrong answer under my grandpas condition. The spiritual malpractictioners should have avoided the question.He was in his last days and they greatly distressed him.Yet this is how the lord got his eyes opened as to their true spirit. Just before he went to be in the loving arms of Jesus. God in heaven please bless my grandpa I miss him. | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I am choking I am laughing so hard......it's ok,buddy, we CAN relate, and know your pain... | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
ok..so get this story... I had just sewn myself a new skirt and vest for campmeeting at Nooksack. It was dark burgandy with tiny(1/8 inch) squarish dots on it ,dark rust color. Danny was sitting on a sunny bench with Ray, and they called me over. Danny says," sister Elizabeth, why are you wearing a red polkadot outfit? You are the childrens teacher." I replied," this isn't red polkadot, its dark rust and dark burgandy. I was very careful and I showed it to the other sisters before I made it to make sure it would be ok..." Dan the man replied,with a big grin on his face "no, it is red polkadots." I said,"Bro. Danny,I really see it as dark rust. I would never wear red." King Dan says, "I said it is red pokadots, sister Elizabeth, so it is red pokadots. Do you understand?" Still smiling... I said," yes Brother Danny." and then I asked permission to leave. Of course Ray was sitting there the whole time with that idiotic toothy grin he habitually wears... I'm sure they had a good laugh at what an easy mark I was... as I was walking back across the campground, sis B.S. stops me and asks what all that was about. So I repeated the conversaton to her. She says, but those aren't red pokadots they are tiny dark rust squares. I told her I know, but Danny said they were red polkadots, so I guess now tiny rust squares are red polkadots, and I really deep in my heart submissively meant it.... she shook her head and walked away... needless to say that was the end of that red polkadot outfit... we still laugh about how we were being trained that black was white and white was black, just like in communist Russia, which it turns out used the VERY same thought reform methods as Danny and co. used....weird.... | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
The problem with false prophets is. They are like parasites. They need a host in order to live. They thrive off the host victims life and resources. They never work they just stay imbedded until the host creats antibodies agais'nt it or the host dies. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
The problem with False Prophets is: They are like chameleons They will change colors when their sensors detect they might be discovered. They can be difficult to discern | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Seven characteristics of "destructive cults": mind control, charismatic leadership, deception, exclusivity, alienation, exploitation, and totalitarian worldview (we/they syndrome) The difference between a cult and a religion, of course, lies in extremity. Cults generally exhibit all seven of the above criteria. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
At a meeting in Huber Heights Ray Tinsman made an announcment he wanted all the men and boys to meet with him after service. Everybody gathered together in the designated room and began waiting on him. I thought I would do a courtious act for everyone by telling Ray that everybody had gathered and was waiting on him. Someone told me where to find him. So I went and knocked on the door to his office and stuck my head in and told him everybody had gathered together and was waiting on him. There happened to be an old friend of mine in rays office at that moment. Well anyways I shut the door back and Ray finally came out and had his session with the brothers and then we all went our way. End of story right? Wrong! Later my friend approached me and said you know when knocked and stuck your head in the room when Ray Tinsman and I was in his office? As soon as you shut the door Ray looked at me and said: That man is so rude. And did you know that he ............. (He told him things I put him in confidence about.) My friend was stunned and shook to his core. As soon as my friend finished telling me this story I was crushed to. I had been recovering from a nervous breakdown. This was a major blow to me. My spiritual support had just vaporized. I got dicouraged and quit going to service for a while over this. When I came back things were never the same. I could tell a change in rays and dannys attitudes toward me. I had just exposed a big weakness in his rising star preacher Ray Tinsman. Looking back that must have been the catalyst for all the abuses to come for me and boy did they come. I think Dannys mind is so far gone he can't tell an easy right from wrong anymore? Ray tinsman has very serious spiritual needs. It is evident ray painted me in the most negative light he could to danny concerning this innocent encounter to save face with danny and not recieve his due punishment. Hind sight is 20/20 So now it is easy to see the true charactor of these so called christains. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Read the posting libbyathome wrote concerning all the grief Danny Layne gave Ann Walters and Elizebeth Reddington about breaking confidance about peoples personals. Ray tinsman was never sat down, admonished openly rebuked to this day? He still is called brother Ray? He continues on as if he never done it. This is called partiality and is a double standard. I talked with my friend again about this incident and he said this is what opened his eyes to their true spirit. He will be posting something about it also. Danny is obssessed with the continuance of his unclean fallen ministry. If anybody wants to ask me more about this group feel free to email me at doorman_89@hotmail.com | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I stayed the night at Richard Hales house while I was member of the restoration. Richard took one of his sons to a back room and beat him with something him for what seemed like an eternity to me. I would guess he beat the child for a solid half an hour. I will never forget it. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I was riding the groups bus to the oklahoma meeting not long after this stay with Mr hale. I was sitting across from an old friend of my mine named shanna. We were nearing our destination when all of a sudden Richard Hale comes storming toward the back of the bus with one of his boys hanging in the air by one of his arms. He was lashing him across his body with a heavy leather belt and was hitting him in a fit of rage. You could see it written all over his face. My friend was stunned and started crying. She asked me is this some kind of cult? She said she wanted to go home and said she would hitch hike if she had too! I told her not to do anything rash and that I would tell some people what we had witnessed and get back with her. So upon arrival to the meeting my focus was not the meeting. It was keeping my friend from hitchhiking and/or walking home 1000 miles from Oklahoma to Ohio. I first went to my sister Connie Cox and told her what happened. She said shawn you dont know those children they have a strong spirit and it needs to be broken. I was a bit perplexed at this answer to say the least. So I tried to find a minister I thought I could talk to. (Danny and I never could talk on a personal level after he insulted me at nooksack). I found a minister named Chuck azbil. I told him what we witnesses and asked him if he thought it was child abuse he said you can beat a child too hard. I said I agree. So I went to find shanna to talk with her about my conversation with this minister. I found her talking with her future husband joe schnieder and another brother. As I walked up to them the brothers were walking away and I was able to talk with her about the incident again. As I was talking Danny Layne comes out the cafateria doors and walks up to me and said: I understand you have a problem with lust? If I catch you talking with another sister. You are out of the Church of God! I responded by saying: "I can handle that! Note: I found out later that My friend joe had walked into the cafateria and overheard Richard hale telling Danny Layne that I was talking to shanna again? The very man that had caused the problem had somehow made it his agenda to get me in trouble while I was helping the same person he had offened by his brute beast conduct. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Will someone else please post something? I need a break. Thanks! | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.173 |
Just take a break, letnoman. There is no schedule for posting here. No pressure! Theophilos | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Hey Theophilos I am getting alot of interest in the factnet postings. I am posting as much as I can concerning the restoration. I am going to tell my whole story as fast as I can for all to read. I want those that read these testimonies to know that I gain courage and strength off their postings too! So I can hardly wait to hear their new posting. I will just have to be patient. Lord Bless letnomandeceiveyou by any means! | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I am I am I am :-) | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
hey letnomandeceiveyou!!! we love reading your posts, but it is ok to stop for awhile. Nothing is going to happen overnight as in trying to stop these nuts. I am hearing as well that there is a lot of good response to these posts. Sometimes it takes awhile for people to get up enough energy or time to start posting. Others havn't thought about the group in a long time. Look how long it took for me to respond after you first posted.... we love you....phone anytime.... phone tonight, we're just watching tv... | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Gotcha.....Rodger.... over and out. How do I put one of those happy faces on my postings? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Don't you give me none of that Mamee Pambee Love business And as Danny used to say: All you black folk stay loose! Dont you be getting all stiff and starchy like the white folks. (Then all the blacks would go wild, and just about fall out of their seats.) Then he would say this ain't the white church of God! He's gotta play the race card! | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
yeah! happy happy happy  I've got the mambee pambee love blues!!  | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
{OK, I will join in here and express some more info for all. I am Jeff Redington and here is some of my thoughts. I will be coming on later as Jeffserv. I do not need or have the need to go after any one person. My goal would be to go after the group. The movement. So If you want to destroy one person you may destroy their reputation... yet the group will go on. What I feel is that it is important here is to focus. What is the problem. After having been out of the group for around 6 or 7 years... I can now stand back and look at this from the distance. Almost like any other group. What is highly important for anyone approaching this group is to realize that it looks good on the surface. Like a wolf in sheep clothing. Great music, almost like what you might call heavenly, and we emotionally had near parties every meeting at times. So we did have some fun. What we must do is back up and look at the net result of the group and its ministry and teachings. The net result to your family will be the disassociation of you from all your "non" church family. From all your former friends. And you will be isolated from all of them. You will become a part of the church only. They will become your family. You will loose your existing family over time. They don't tell you this up front. The further net results are listed below and I have seen all of this: Warning:... this group is a destructive cult. If you do not wish to call it that... you need to look deeper. Smart people are found in all cults... you are not strange or wierd if you have been in a cult... only mislead or deceived. Divorce... you will loose your spouse if you do not buy into the church... hook, line, and sinker. In other words... your wife buys it all and you don't... they will destroy you and push it to beyond divorce. "...yet they teach against divorce." I saw more divorces as a result of this ministries teaching than any other church I have seen. Look at the end result. I have seen wives die in child birth,and children die during birth. This happened several times. You may loose your wife to child birth and/or your newborn. They do not believe in going for medical help. Death... if you join this group you may find that you will be faced with death from something like a simple infection... which could have been easily dealt with with modern medical attention. Divorce, Death in Childbirth, Death from simple sicknesses... that could be easily dealt with. You may loose your children to death. Then you may get to go to jail for it as well. Many in the COG Restoration have been dragged into court for these types of cases. So you may be looking for something better, yet I tell you you are facing a destructive cult. One that will in the end produce very bad results for your family. You may for a time slide by and not face any of these things. But let me warn you a little more... the talk at one time among the group was the if the courts in Canada and the USA kept dragging our people into court... we might have to move to South America... to avoid what they called persecusion for "Rightousness" or in other words "not going to the hospital". When I heard this I did not disapprove... I didn't know how we would get there... but considered it... Now consider the Jim Jones Movement and look at what we were being told... "South America..." Divorce, Death, Lost family relations,... does this sound like a good church to belong too??? More Later.\green (Message edited by libbyathome on January 29, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Somber post Jeff. I need to quit clowning and get serious. I know this group is playing no game. They have split my family in two. And they have seriously damaged my whole unsaved families confidence in religion. You wont see a sinner off the street joining this group. They seem to only draw people that are already religiuos. They are way to wierd for most everyday people to even approach. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Danny Layne has a captive audience. literally | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I found this online I dont know who wrote it but it makes sense. Question: "Are we supposed to obey our pastors?" Answer: The verse that speaks the most directly to your question is Hebrews 13:17, “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” As a pastor, it hurts me deeply to see people ignore the counsel of God that I or others shared in messages or Bible lessons. They “blew off” the Word of God, doing so not only to their own hurt but also to the hurt of those who were around them. Young people especially have the tendency to ignore the counsel of those older than them, making the mistake of trusting their own wisdom as well as their own heart. God states that a godly pastor shares precepts from God’s Word because he desires not only to serve God but to feed the flock the spiritual food that will result in them experiencing the abundant life that Jesus promised (John 10:10b). On the other end of the spectrum, the Bible gives warning about “false shepherds” who do not have the welfare of the flock at heart but are more interested in maintaining control, exercising lordship over others, or who fail to study the Word of God and so teach men’s commands instead of God. The Pharisees were guilty of this during Jesus’ time. There were numerous examples of this cited in the prophetic books of the Old Testament. And there are repeated warnings about this in Acts, the epistles, and Revelation. If you need to know where specifically, just say so. I have listed a few below. Because of the unfortunate reality of these self-seeking leaders, there must also come a time when we do not obey man in order to obey God (Acts 4:18-20). However, accusations against a church leader are not to be flippantly launched and need to be substantiated by more than one witness (1 Timothy 5:19). Godly pastors are worth their weight in gold. They are usually overworked and underpaid. They bear greater responsibility than medical doctors as Hebrews 13:17 states...they must one day give an account of their ministries before God. 1 Peter 5:1-4 point out that they are not dictators and do not act like dictators, but lead by their example and by their teaching (1 Timothy 4:16) in humility of heart. And like Paul, they are like nursing mothers who truly love their “children” and are willing to give themselves for their flock and rule with gentleness (1 Thessalonians 2:7-12; John 10:11). They are characterized by sincere devotion to the Word and to prayer (Acts 6:4) so that they can rule in God’s power and wisdom and impart to the flock spiritual meat to make them healthy and vibrant Christians (1 Timothy 5:17). If this is a description of your pastor, or close to it ...he is worthy of double honor and obedience as he declares the plain teachings of God. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
[1 Peter 5] 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you]. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
When I was part of the restoration I employed different brothers from time to time. One brother I employed. Liked to sit up in the front during service and always had a glowing testimony. He was very loud and vocal. He was very agressive towards anybody. Saints or aints alike. One day while we were at work I decided to take lunch. I went to get my packed lunch. I could not find my sandwich. Finally I asked this man if he had seen my sandwich? He said yes I ate it? I was kindof shocked that he would do something like that. He said you dont mind do you? I sensed it was part of that agressive dominating spirit that lay behind his wolfing down my sandwhich. It felt like he was saying to me by this act: I can do whatever I want to do to you?. I was riding with two of the this afore mentioned man's brothers.We were on our way to a meeting in Canada. I was their guest and riding with them. I was getting hungry. So I asked one of them if we could stop and get something to eat? One brother looked at the other and tried to do a discreet shake of the head no. (I saw it though) So they kept driving and would not stop. I kept quite and after awhile they had to stop for some reason. Well they stopped near a Mcdonalds and I walked straight for them Double arches. One of them said were are you going? (Like he wanted me to stop.) I said I am getting something to eat. I kept walking and got something to eat. Why they refused me food I dont know? Was that what their younger brother was doing when he ate my sandwhich trying to stop me from eating? Why ??? I like to eat too! These folks are strange to say they least. Welcome to the twilight zone. Maybee they are on the cutting edge of spiritual technology and I just stumble around trying to keep up. Let's see. Steal my food, deny me food, steal my food, deny me food. Stumble Stumble I just dont get it? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
When I came to the Huber Heights congregation I was soon involved with helping out many of the members. From shoveling snow to home repair. I visited the home of an old friend of mine Sister Phyliss Hargrave. She was a single black woman who raised a bunch of children by herself. (Including the three I mentioned in the last two postings.) When I walked into her house I was shocked at the living conditions she was forced to live under. It was substandard and a real reproach She had to catch her sink water in a garbage pail. doors were falling off the cabinets, their was numerous holes and markings on the walls , the interior doors were full of holes, I think some were off or falling off. The exterior doors leaked air. The kitchen cabinets had caught fire years back and they left some of the burnt ones up. Her furnishings were all wore out and needed to be thrown away. I dont come from no high class background but this woman was living in a mess. Looking back this was a definate mark on their feast of charity. (Oh thats right they dont have bake sales  ) Her bathroom was a mess. The flooring throughout much of the home was no good and was falling through in places. I decided I was going to do something about this terrible situation I found this sister in. I talked with my mother and we put our money together and went to work . We remodeled her bathroom first. Then we hung some new exterior doors. Being my mother and I are not rich we decided to see if Bro Ray would help pay for some of the repairs. He said he would pay us back for some of our expenses. I guess out of the church fund? He finally did pay us some money back but he was very slow about it and didnt seem to happy about doing it. She had been a member of that congregation for many years and nobody seemed to care about her living conditions? They will go a coutry mile to make sure your wearing the right clothing? Or spend countless hours trying to get you to see a vague passage in revelations? But I am not impressed with their religion. Here was a perfect opportunity to perform one of the most pure religious acts you can do and they had been dropping the ball for years until Mom and I came along. Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. When I look back how they treated this older sister indanagering her health and well being it speaks volumes about their kind of religion. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Religious movements often have founders or leaders who wield considerable charismatic authority and who are believed to have special powers or knowledge. Almost by definition, charismatic leaders are unpredictable, for they are not bound by tradition or rules. Such leaders may be accorded by their followers the right to pronounce on all aspects of their lives. In these cases the leader may lack any accountability, require unquestioning obedience, and encourage a dependency upon the movement for material, spiritual and social resources. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
According to the fable, a hungry wolf came upon a sheep's fleece lying on the ground in a field. The wolf realized that if it wore the fleece, it would look like a sheep from a distance. That would enable the wolf to sneak up on a flock of sheep and steal a lamb for its supper, before the shepherd noticed his presence. The wolf put on the fleece, and went off in search of a flock of sheep. It spied a flock of sheep just as the sun was setting, and approached the flock. Just as it was about to pounce on a lamb, a shepherd came by, looking for a sheep to slaughter for supper. Thinking the disguised wolf was a sheep, the shepherd quickly grabbed and killed the wolf. The intended lesson was, "Frauds and liars are always discovered, eventually, and pay for their deceit." | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
thanks...I really appreciated those last posts...they were a good reminder what true Christianity is...yes there are works involved, but it sure ain't the works of the CoGR. THe works of God and the Fruit of the Spirit are the natural outpourings of the life of all of Gods children... | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
New Song Titles for the Restoration to Practice singing 1. Blinded by the light. Chorus: How great is our darkness? 2. We might as well be wearing red ! 3. Guthrie heard! So we are through! (Theme song to the Susan Mutch Tradgedy.) 4. Excommunication Fever Note: Please have Danny perform his famous spin dance while singing this wonderful song. 5. There’s a whole lotta! shakin goin on! 6, We know more than brother Warner did! Do!..Da!..Do!..Da! Even though were no where near as holy as him.. Oh!..Do!..Da!..Day! 7. Love me tender love me true. ( This is one of the most diffi-cult. To sing! 9. What’s love got to do with it? Chorus: What’s love but a second hand emotion 10. Hello? Hello? Hello? Is their anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me? is there anyone home? Stay tuned next week boys and girls when we bring new songs of Revelation to our friends in the Restoration Only on WWJD. What Would Jesus Do? Remember their motto! We can mock you but you can’t mock us or were telling Danny. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Junior Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Why are Coercive Psychological Systems Harmful? Coercive psychological systems violate our most fundamental concepts of basic human rights. They violate rights of individuals that are guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and affirmed by many declarations of principle worldwide. By confusing, intimidating and silencing their victims, those who profit from these systems evade exposure and prosecution for actions recognized as harmful and which are illegal in most countries such as: fraud, false imprisonment, undue influence, involuntary servitude,intentional infliction of emotional distress, outrageous conduct and other tortuous acts. I wonder what kind of compensation we all can get? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Our laws and codes of ethics accept the vulnerability of people to intimidation and deception. They also accept the possibility that relationships of special trust (such as those enjoyed by physicians, nurses, psychologists, social workers, attorneys, ministers, etc.) may be improperly exploited. undue influence, involuntary servitude, intentional infliction of emotional distress, outrageous conduct Disillusioned,Finacially and emotionally damaged ex members of the The church of God restoration inc should consult with a lawyer To see what legal remedies are available. To sue not only the Church of God Restoration inc. But also Danny Layne for damages done and losses endured. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
How I healed the psychological injuries from my abuse in a cult By Lawrence Wollersheim I am the Co-founder of www.Factnet.org the oldest and largest internet source of free information on cults and mind control. I am also the winner of an 8.7 million dollar lawsuit against Scientology --- that Scientology was forced to pay! I have waited far to long to write and share this short statement of how I was healed of the greatest part of the damage the cult of Scientology did to me through their use of mind control. To put things in perspective the psychological damage caused by Scientology is generally considered the worst and longest lasting of all cults. And, I did not just heal back up to where I was before I was abused by Scientology, the simple process below actually transformed my pain and loss into amazing strengths and character qualities that I could have never attained had I not done all 5 steps below. If you are a cult abuse victim, the simple list below can be used as a checklist to see what might be missing from your healing program. Most of the information below is also equally applicable to all other forms of abuse and victimization. Step 1: Learn what happened to you by reading the accounts of other similar victims. Step 1a: If you are a victim of cult abuse, thoroughly learn about the psychological dynamics of how mind control works. This way you will be able to see more certainly and clearly how you were systematically deceived and victimized by a technology in the hands of the unscrupulous cult leaders or their middle management manipulated manipulators. Step 2: Get therapy from a specialist in the area of abuse that you have suffered. Keep getting enough therapy until you are far more functional and the cult created irrational thought loops and induced phobias are no longer controlling the way you think about or see the world. (Therapy will go far faster and easier if you really don’t skimp on step 1 above.) Step 3: Get real angry and sue your abuser. Anger over injustice is appropriate and useful if used as a temporary motivational scaffolding. More importantly when you sue the abuser you reverse the psychological victim/oppressor dynamics radically. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
You are now the society sanctioned legal oppressor and they are the appropriate and legitimate victim of the social justice process. I cannot over-emphasize how much it will help your healing when you sue the oppressor even if you do not win! When you see your oppressor on the stand in the court as a mere and often pathetic mortal with no magical or special spiritual powers, it does wonders to break more of the cult induce mindset out of you and restore to you once again your own power. Suing your oppressor also does much to teach others about their abuses through the pubic exposure you bring to them in the disinfecting light of the courts. Finally, suing them for legitimate abuse increases their costs for wrongdoing and begins to make them consider avoiding such wrongdoing which would cause more similar suits in the future. Because it is not my practice to answer individual questions, shortly I will be publishing at www.factnet.org and emailing out to the various cult support organizations exactly what I believe were the most important things that I learned on exactly how to win a civil lawsuit against a cult (particularly Scientology) so you will also have the benefit of this hard won successful lawsuit experience when you sue your abuser and continue deepening your healing. Step 4: If you were in a religious cult and the religious abuse and spiritual betrayal has taken you away form your spiritual journey and spiritual quest it is absolutely critical to re-begin your spiritual journey and your inner more meaningful life again. Deep spiritual betrayal is among the hardest of the betrayals to overcome, but when you do you will heal faster and deeper than on any other step of the process. Step 5: Educate others on the cult and their abuses. I co-founded FACTNet to do just that. Now there are many ways to help you do this on and off the internet. That is it! Do these five steps with a passion and your will become stronger and better and healthier than you have ever been. Your experience will become so transformative it will border on transcendental. I wish you the absolute best on your healing journey to wholeness and to your new abilities and strengths. Sincerely, Lawrence Wollersheim PS Please pass this simple “how to heal” email or web page to everyone you know who you think could be benefited by this simple power formula for the healing of cult abuse. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
In many countries there exists a separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Governments of some of these countries, concerned with possible abuses by cults, have taken restrictive measures against some of their activities. Critics of such measures claim that the counter-cult movement and the anti-cult movement have succeeded in influencing governments in transferring the public's abhorrence of doomsday cults and make the generalization that it is directed against all small or new religious movements without discrimination. The critique is countered by stressing that the measures are directed not against any religious beliefs, but specifically against groups whom they see as inimical to the public order due to their totalitarianism, violations of fundamental liberties, inordinate emphasis on finances, and/or disregard for appropriate medical care | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 59 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.100.24 |
Lawrence Wollersheim wrote: Step 3: Get real angry and sue your abuser. Anger over injustice is appropriate and useful if used as a temporary motivational scaffolding. More importantly when you sue the abuser you reverse the psychological victim/oppressor dynamics radically. Thank you for posting that, letnomandeceice you. And I'd like to thank Lawrence for co-founding FactNet and for sharing his steps to healing. I just have one comment to make in regards to step 3 in his post. As a follower of Christ, I personally do not believe it to be appropriate to "pay back" your abuser with law-suits (and in particular lawsuits involving financial reparations). I don't believe this is something Christ ever encouraged, but instead He taught us to bear unjust sufferings and to bless those who do us harm. Yes, this is backwards to the carnal mind, but we have to remember that if we belong to Him, He would not have us fight evil in the flesh. Because if we do that, we become the very thing we are trying to fight. In all your passion and zeal, remember to give Christ the lead! Theophilos | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.100.24 |
One other comment...unless the cult apprehended and kidnapped you by force, and I believe most of us adult people joined 'voluntarily'...on what basis would you sue? It was your choice to join yourself to that...while you still possessed your sound reasoning. With the tragic exception of children who had no choice in the matter. So, who is really responsible? This is not meant to place guilt on anyone particular, but just an attempt to keep it within rational perspective. Would it hold up in court? Theophilus | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Jeff and I have often talked about suing CoGR....not for our own personal compensation, but just to make them realize that they can't continue to do the things they do without some punishment. It is the same as a murderer or thief getting time in prison. If the people inside the group knew that the law was after the leaders for psycological abuse, it might help some leave...or at least second guess their reasons for being in the group... we wouldn't even have to keep the money if we didn't want to..we could donate it to a cult recovery cause or something else agreeably worthy... the question is...can we find a lawyer who would be willing to take the case?? | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Theophilos- you didn't have the opportunity to experience the years of mind-numbing spiritual abuse that the rest of us did. ( for which you can be thankful) None of us joined a cult voluntarily. The cult CoGR never put out for inspection and discussion the abusive and coercive mind control techniques they employed. That is what makes them a cult. We were deceived 24/7. I don't think you really understand what happened to us... I think your experience may have been somewhat different than the rest of ours... the fellow who sued Scientology and started factnet had some really great points. (Message edited by libbyathome on January 31, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Illegal in most countries are the following: fraud, false imprisonment, undue influence, involuntary servitude,intentional infliction of emotional distress, disregard for appropriate medical care,child abuse, negligent homicide, Theft by deception. The list goes on and on. A person needs to have there own leadings on how to deal with being wronged. If we follow dannys lead we all would have him in court tommorow in a class action lawsuit. The bible mentions suing over money. I wonder if you could utilize the court system to sue on principle and expose a wolf in sheeps clothing? And if you was awarded damages donate the money to a good cause? | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.124 |
letnomandeceiveyou, I believe there may be some situations where exposure by means of official ways may sometimes be necessary, but what's important is that our inner motive is in line with God's heart. In other words, if we do it in order to wanting to protect the public from a danger, that is different than personal retaliation for what one suffered as an individual. As believers we are called to suffer with Christ, and follow His example. There is no shame in that. I understand that due to the heavy-handed, scripture twisting environment most of us have come out of, a lot of the biblical words and phrases may now sting like a dagger in the heart (triggers). That is certainly not God's intent, nor is it my intent to hurt anyone. Please know that when you read my posts. But I believe the wisdom of Jesus, not the counsel of the world, is our only hope to true healing. Theophilos theophilos.2@gmail.com | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I did a quick study of this passge. And if "any man" will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. I think this passage is about as plain to understand as it gets. It says if any man will sue thee at law. The key word is any man. So no matter if it's an ex-brother or a sinner you dont sue at law. I was wrong about what I said. Danny has to live in a twisted world. He goes directly agaisnt the word of God. He commits a sin like this and it just wow's his captive audience. How can those people not see how far out of bounds he operates? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I think it may be written in another one of the gospels: if thy brother sue thee. I had heard some say that if a man is no longer is a brother then you could sue him. But Matthew 5:40 says if any man sue thee at law and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. So the right course of action Danny should have taken concerning the nooksack campground would have been to let them keep the property without putting up a fight in court about it. Then offer to build them a new building? Hey now that would have went a long way to silence his critics. | ||
| fellow2 Member Username: fellow2 Post Number: 62 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 64.228.36.124 |
letnoman, I think you might be thinking of the passage in Corinthians that speaks of brothers going before the worldly courts. 1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 1Co 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. While I would not deem the Nooksack dispute a "small matter", still as so-called ministers of God and 'saints' there should have been another way to settle this, than to turn it into the shameful spectacle it has become. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
I am glad this subject came up about suing people. I Think this is were someone said you can get the people out of the cult but its hard to get the cult out of the people. I want to be careful and not promote a unhealty gospel. It is evident that suing someone is wrong. I remember hearing Danny saying he was going to raise the standard higher. I always knew what he was talking about, putting on more clothes. I never saw Danny or most of the others taking wrong, just constanly dishing it out to someone else. I loaned money to some of them and never got it back. They lied to my face and said they had paid me back. What could I do go tell danny? | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Have you ever thought that maybe this scripture, if any man sue you at law... give him your cloak also...is talking about something a little different? If someone is going to sue you, they generally have a good reason to do that. I think this scripture means that you should take your punishment with good grace and even offer more than what the courts decide, to show your sorrow at doing wrong. Sort of like restitution... Zacheas was a good example of this... I do not think the scriptures teach that you should let anyone do whatever evil they want to do to you while you sit back and allow it. This scripture doesn't say you should never defend yourself. That mentality is what got us into trouble in the first place. They would just beat us half to death twisting the scriptures . And if we tried to defend ourselves, they would accuse us of not being sanctified. The reason we would sue these people is because they are thieves. They need to be made accountable for their wicked deeds. They have stolen, and killed and destroyed, and are still doing it to innocent people and children. They will do it today, and tomorrow and next week, and next month, and next year until someone really stands up and says in a very public way, STOP!NOW! Do we really want to fight these people or is this just a futile dream?????? Just a bunch of talk?? I am not saying we are going to sue them, what I am saying is that we need to be willing to stand up and make these people accountable for their actions,how ever a public form that may take. Web sites, a book, magazine articles, legal suits...what ever it takes. Are we just going to complain?? Years ago I took the following as a very good motto to follow... If you're not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem... How many people that are reading this are still afraid of Danny and co, because he still has power over you??? because he might forbid you to ever see your grandkids ever again??? or because you might never see your kids again?? Or you think he has some info on you he might report to the police?? Or you are still trying to make them think you are "spiritual"? For how long will we allow them and other religeous zelots to beat us down and say that our stolen lives are not worth fighting for?? These people are not our brothers in the Lord. They are worshiping an idol called Church of God Restoration and their high priest is Danny Layne... (Message edited by libbyathome on January 31, 2007) | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
You know Danny is reading every bit of this. He probably is refreshing his page right now. Or at the least his gooney birds are emailing each article and hand delivering it with drool hanging out of their mouths. They live for conflict. That is their religion. That is how they keep their birds in the cage through an us against them mentality. Like mafia protection. We are going to protect you whether you like it or not. It is impossible to engauge a laynite in a reasonable conversation they are all insane. They have imbibed thier leaders insane mind. You are right Elizebeth alot of people are cowardly weather still inside or outside Dannys group. He still controls them. To those that have left I would At the least be very indignant and pray to God for leadings on how you could help free the captives? Danny is biding his time and counseling with his wolf pack on if, how and when to strike at this message board. It probably rings in his ears every night when he tries to sleep. If their is anybody else who would like to join in this expose of the restoration it would be appreciated. I am not perfect in my speech and I am learning alot by doing this too! I beleive if we pray for guidance and write down our experiances the lord will bless it. | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Actually after leaving the group It was a bit difficult to think normal again. I believe it is because Danny has an insanity spirit that rubs off on anyone who stays in his cult any lenghth of time. Remember he was recieving a check for mental disabilaty from the state of california. He's Coo! Coo! for CoCo Puff's Thank God we are away from his insanity! | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
Danny told brother Jim Hightower that he hopes his mind goes before his body because he can't stand his own sanity. What a confession! I am insane and I am your leader! Mwwwwwwwaaaaaaaahaahaaha! ha! ha! ha! Hey! out there is restoration land your leader is mentally unsound and has confessed to it. That still doesnt deter you all? Well then stay were your at and enjoy your hellish stay. When when you meet God he will ask why did you follow a self confessed (and certified by the state of california) insane false prophet that still sounds gay? Well lord I didnt know were else to go? You could have went home and shut the door until further notice from God? If you can still hear his voice through all the insane clamour in your head. | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
Naaaah, you don't think Danny would be on the internet when he doesn't allow others on do you??? He probably has his spies doing his sinning for him... | ||
| libbyathome Junior Member Username: libbyathome Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.227.214.164 |
I do want to say that I am very sensitive to those who are in the situation where their families are still trapped in this group. I don't know what I would do if I was threatened to never be able to see my children or grandchildren if I exposed the CoGR. Poor Pauletta, being excommunicated the way she is... I really doubt that I would have the courage to say the things I say if it would be at the cost of losing my family...unless I saw that their lives were in danger... so don't feel like I am putting you down for not being as vocal as I am...we are all in different places in our experience and recovery...and that also doesn't mean I think I am ahead of you or anything...I am just where I am at, and God has put this on mine and Jeffs heart. Jeff is starting a new web site with in the next week or so...he is just checking out some domain names tonight. It will be something like "church of God Restoration Exposed " I don't know exactly the direction it will take or the format. He doesn't know how to set up a discussion forum, so it will just be info and articles for now, unless someone can help...??? | ||
| letnomandeceiveyou Member Username: letnomandeceiveyou Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 24.210.218.255 |
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