| Author | Message | ||
     jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
I am amazed at what I have been reading here. Post after post about someone's deeds of the flesh. The old man was crucified, died and was buried with Christ. God no longer sees any believer according to the flesh, but as one in Christ. Why go on and on about flesh when we are a new creation? It is Christ who is our Life and our occupation. Should we dig up what God has buried? If we believe that Christ is in control let Him deal with the things that concern His Church, Body and Future Bride. He doesn't need our help. It's hard for me to believe that some here have learned anything about the person and work of Christ. | ||
| lmao Intermediate Member Username: lmao Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
You're right Jim. Often Christ isn't magnified here and I am as guilty as anyone. You are also wrong Jim. Just as you rightfully point out our faults here on Factnet, we rightfully point out the corruption, over emphasis on some teaching and even false teaching at gg. Some of their controversial teachings are probably okay and others are just plain evil. Read some of the articles on DiscussGGWO and carlstevens.org for details. | ||
| sidethorn Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 864 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.143.116.8 |
Jim, I agree and disagree. Jesus should be the main focus of any believer's life and not what everyone else's little activities in the flesh are. However, when you have a manipulative, deceptive personality cult disguised as an evangelical church that brainwashes people into substituting a self-serving pastor for the gentle voice of God in one's heart and their conscience and their own critical thinking skills, public exposure is sorely needed and is part of God's plan. I was actually planted by God Himself in the youth ministry of this cult to expose numerous false teachings being rammed down the teenagers throats in an unsafe environment where nobody is allowed to question anything. Several families and quite a few kids left this group as God worked through me and others to reveal the real truths about this group. I then exposed this group from the outside by word of mouth and by the Internet. The details can be found on the "greater grace world outreach" thread along with many other threads on Factnet along with other anticult websites. Just google the GGWO name and they'll pop up for you. Manipulative cults that exploit people and their finances for selfish purposes and the glorification of a man like Carl Stevens thrive on people staying silent and sitting back doing nothing and "letting God handle it". This is not God's way just it wasn't Jesus's way with the Pharisees of His day that were leading people astray. This board is primarily for the purpose of exposing the GGWO cult to warn others to stay away and to encourage current members to leave. That is the main focus here. Perhaps we do need to glorify Christ more here in the future. | ||
| guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Junior Member Username: guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 70.130.191.9 |
Jim, You sound like a Gnostic twisting scriptures from the GGWO MC Hammer School of Theology. But, since your flesh is irrelevant I imagine I am just communicating to a spirit. So, does your flesh still require exorbitant amounts of salt, pepper and Tabasco sauce? Or, have you crucified that too? Dinner etiquette is important to me! The old man may be crucified but he is alive and well and enjoying a system in GGWO that caters to his every need. So, pass the salt please. Thank you. What do you make of 1 Timothy 5 and Matthew 18? Do you think these are provisions to deal with naughty flesh? | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
"So, does your flesh still require exorbitant amounts of salt, pepper and Tabasco sauce? Or, have you crucified that too? Dinner etiquette is important to me!" To me they never were "exorbitant" amounts, but neither are they sins. I never liked Tabasco, but Texas Pete and Franks are AOK. Since dinner etiquette is important to I have cut back dramatically, thank you for your concern about my health. "You sound like a Gnostic twisting scriptures from the GGWO MC Hammer School of Theology." Please tell me how you developed this gift of discernment? "But, since your flesh is irrelevant I imagine I am just communicating to a spirit." I made no reference to "my flesh" at all, or to it's relevancy. I stated Divine Viewpoint. Was I incorrect? Has God dealt with the OSN or hasn't He? "What do you make of 1 Timothy 5 and Matthew 18?" 1 Tim 5 is written to a Pastor of a local assembly pertaining to how he should lead his flock, there is no mention of the flock slandering, maligning, gossiping or exposing the Pastor. Matthew 18 is primarily Kingdom Doctrine, but if you are refering to verses 15-17 as a secondary application let me give you a simple definition of "Church" from Thayer: G1577 ekklesia Thayer Definition: 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting 1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order’s sake 1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body 1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth 1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven. Except for 1d4&5 the definitions apply to a local assembly. Most people here on factnet admittedly have left the local church of GGWO in Baltimore or one of it's affiliates therefore have no say as to what goes on in any of the GGWO local assemblies. The Baltimore Church has made it's decision, their decision should be respected. Interference by outsiders is not the heartbeat of Christ. Constantly exposing someone's sin is not the love of Christ. What was done and/or is being done in the GGWO is not your business or mine since we are no longer members. Why seek a human solution, Christ is the Head of the Church. Your faith is being challenged, will you let Christ be God or will you handle this one yourself along with your mutual admiration society? By the way, in the spirit of MT 18:15-17, have you personaly gone to CHS, privately, and "showed him his fault?" "guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner" Not at my house! | ||
| guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Junior Member Username: guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 70.130.191.9 |
My dear brother, If you are not the most ignorant man in the world then when he dies a fulltime job is available for you. My faith is not being challenged by a person who still parrots the cult culture of silence ingrained through hundreds of hours of repitition of touch not God's anointed, ad naseum. Your flimsy exposition is fatally flawed. BTW, where did you learn kingdom doctrine? Part of your categorical training at SSB? Also, your comments on 1 Timothy 5 are absurd. So, are you part of an IAGM church? Are you going to let God deal with your leaders when they err? have you not heard of the term church discipline? You would have made a great Papal apologist during the Reformation...I guess by your understanding of 'kingdom doctrine' Martin Luther and John Calvin were slanderers. BTW, in regard to the mutual admiration society, I have none. However, if you are going to use King Carl's qoute use it properly, "A mutual admiration society based on sentimentality and personality rapport." BTW, I sent a detailed latter to Carl and his elders which I signed and it was ignored. I never received a response. Kinda tough to get an appointment or past security. But, you were security in Lenox so you should know what I am talking about. I also sent a letter (via email) to the board of directors of the IAGM which only two had the good manners to respond to. And,I do not think I would want to go to your house for dinner because the kool aid is lethal. Have good manners and stop chugging the kool aid. | ||
| guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Junior Member Username: guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 70.130.191.9 |
You gotta love these "Let God take care of them, he doesn't need our help" guys. "The Church" to them is a bunch of will-less, mindless, spineless, spectators who are there for the entertainment and to throw cash in the plate. "Church discipline" of which jimmybuck is obviously buck ignorant, is not just some local 'pastor' dealing with his 'flock'. Elders are plural and no-one is exempt. You can throw up all the Nestle-Aland, Thayer, Brown-Driver-Briggs you want sweetcheeks! Carl H did the same as do most pseudo-Christian cults. If everyone were so practically perfect in Christ there would not ever be a need to preach to them. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
Col 3:1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Col 3:2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. Col 3:3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. | ||
| lmao Intermediate Member Username: lmao Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
Jim read the Sandy Cove documents: http://www.geocities.com/eric_claw/SC/ALL_Sandy_Cove_Docs_PDF.zip | ||
| guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Junior Member Username: guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 70.130.191.9 |
Jim, 1 Timothy 5:19-22 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. 20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. 22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby shareresponsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin. NASB Do you want to share in his sins? Are you that biased? | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
Imao, thank you for the documents. I will keep these for guidelines and reference. Every local assembly should have a set of bylaws to govern that include accountability, but this is not my point. False doctrine has been disseminated from the beginning of the Church Age. As you will recall most epistles deal with this in some way or another. From the early Church to the early 1500's justification by faith was lost. The Church of Rome taught allegorically and the common people suffered spiritually. They were taught that "good works" may or may not secure their salvation. Evil, wicked, false doctrines saturated the civilized world for centuries. But God let it go on for 1300-1400 years, until He raised up Martin Luther. Why didn't He deal with these false doctrines right away and protect His people, surely He must have known that multitudes were deceived. No one can answer that, but in hindsight we know it was the plan of God. He was not shocked or surprised by the leadership of the Church. The 1500's gave us the Reformation, “Justification by Faith”, a long lost doctrine bringing rest to the souls of many. Luther received great illumination with much suffering and persecution but his illumination only carried him to Romans 5 where he stopped short, which is understandable. He never really looked at Romans 6,7,8 in the same light. So a lot of false doctrine still prevailed. 300 more years go by and God raises up Darby, in the 1800's, who was given light into Romans 6,7,8. He began to teach Finished work Truth: the believers position in Christ based on His work on the Cross. People where truly being set free by the truth Darby taught. In Luther’s light Darby received more light (1 Cor 3:5-7). Even as this new light brought new understanding into the Person and Work of Christ false doctrines still abounded. The Plymouth Brethren had problems similar to GGWO, i.e. Church Discipline, and there was a split. The Brethren, who taught we are dead in Christ and Christ as Head of the Church, fell short in the practical application of what they were learning. Is this not true in our own spiritual lives? We learn the truth and then fall short in application, most times by trying to do it ourselves and not exercising faith in The Holy Spirit. Our flesh always wants a part of the spiritual life and we find ourselves in the Romans 7 dilemma. We have seen two millennium of false doctrine being taught and God’s faithfulness bring the willing into the Truth: Joh 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. My point being, when we discover false doctrine, we move on in Truth. Gossip, slander, maligning, and crusading against it and it’s teachers stifle our advancement and Growth in Christ and hinders our manifestation of Him, He is not Glorified through us. Pampering someone’s flesh who has been hurt by false doctrine will do more harm than good. Lifting up Christ to the down trodden is the only solution for healing. I believe many who post here on factnet have a heart after God and want to know Him and do His will and glorify Christ in their lives, but have been distracted by things of the earth. To those and all of us He Says: Mat 11:28 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. Mat 11:30 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." CHS and the Leadership at GGWO, no matter what is or has gone on there are as Christ is. 1Jo 4:17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. This is reality. | ||
| hodeuon Advanced Member Username: hodeuon Post Number: 560 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.50.121.170 |
Mr. Buckley, I'm not sure I can accept your view of how God works in history. It seems too fatalistic. False doctrine prevailed for hundreds of years, and it must be that God willed it so because He didn't step in? And then He must have will that Luther begin the Reformation because Luther succeeded? It seems to me that the obvious implication is that if GGWO is forced to adopt good doctrine & practices or if everyone leaves and it closes, would you not have to say that God willed that our opposition to GGWO succeed? I disagree with this view of the will of God. No perfection of God operates in a vacuum. God does not stop being loving because He judges. He does not stopping judging because He is loving. Perhaps He does not stop being omnipotent just because He lets things happen that are outside His will. And whether opposing heresy is right or wrong cannot be decided on whether the effort succeeded or not. Hodeuon | ||
| lana Advanced Member Username: lana Post Number: 619 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.206.212 |
Buckley, A long story short, there are consequences for sin. for all of us. Crooks go to jail even though they are forgiven. Open confession,suffering loss and humilation are part of the process. No one is above what God has ordained. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Are you implying CHS is not saved? Or are you just taking Scripture out of context? "david_munson" Some words of life to ponder. 2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
Hodeuon “False doctrine prevailed for hundreds of years, and it must be that God willed it so because He didn't step in? ” No, “God did not will it so”, His will allowed it (false doctrine) to go on without interfering with the free volition of man. “And then He must have will that Luther begin the Reformation because Luther succeeded? ” In the Light of: 1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, I would say Luther responded to God’s desire (thelo) to come to a knowledge of the truth as He promises anyone who is willing in: Joh 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself, because the Word of God in him could not be contained: Jer 20:9 But if I say, "I will not remember Him Or speak anymore in His name," Then in my heart it becomes like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; And I am weary of holding it in, And I cannot endure it. Therefore accomplishing The will of God. “It seems to me that the obvious implication is that if GGWO is forced to adopt good doctrine & practices or if everyone leaves and it closes, would you not have to say that God willed that our opposition to GGWO succeed?” Or He can continue to allow things to go on as you perceive them. He has let the Catholic Church to continue circa 2000 years. Unless Christ builds the house the laborers labor in vain. I don’t see the mood, heartbeat or the love of Christ in any movement that slanders, maligns, gossips or tries to destroy a member of The Body of Christ, no matter what the reason is or how good the intentions are. “Perhaps He does not stop being omnipotent just because He lets things happen that are outside His will.” Nothing is outside the will of God, He often times wills that things go on. Here is an example: Does God will that anyone should perish? No, He wills to leave anyone in a state of condemnation who rejects His Son. As you know we are all born into a state of condemnation, if anyone believes that Jesus is the Christ they are born of God, and He has willed to transfer them from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of His dear Son. If anyone rejects The Son God wills them to remain in their current state until that state comes to fruition (the lake of fire) or at a future time that person believes that Jesus is The Christ. lana Could you make your short story longer? I don’t get your point. | ||
| lana Advanced Member Username: lana Post Number: 620 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.206.196 |
Buckley. I wasn't implying that CHS was not saved. When you are born again, you stil have the sin nature to overcome experienclly even though positionally, we are made perfect through His death. Until then, we go through the dying of the flesh in our own particular situations. I'm sure you know that. The Cross is our road toward perfection. We still bear the sting of sin on this journey. We repent and grow daily. No one is exempt from this process. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
lana I agree with most of what you have said, but when you said: "we go through the dying of the flesh in our own particular situations." Do you mean that as we go through situations we realize we are already dead to the situation? There is a difference, the old man does not die daily, or gradually. The flesh has been dealt with once and for all on the cross of Christ. So in my thought life I don't have to tell myself "I need to die to this or that" and then struggle to perform it. Instead I can tell myself "I am already dead to this and that" so there is no struggle but faith rest based on The Word of God. Rm 6:6, Gal 2:20, Col 3:3 as examples. "We repent and grow daily. No one is exempt from this process." I don't believe repentance is for The Church Age other than it's proper meaning: "a change of mind" But what ever ones definition is of repentance is outside of a change of mind, is it the mind of Christ to gang up on and attack to destroy the one(s) perceived unrepented? I don't think so, I think the mind of Christ would leave the 99 and go after the 1, breaking the legs of the one who keeps going astray if necessary. But that is the Shepard's decision not a vote by the sheep no matter how unanimous. Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. The key words are spiritual and gentleness. You read the posts, do you discern much gentleness or spirituality or a spirit of restoration concerning CHS and GGWO? | ||
| whatsup Intermediate Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 231 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 56.0.143.23 |
I think it is a good possibility that CHS was not saved. He was the epitomy of hypocrisy...screwing around with so many women, including married women in his own congregation, while preaching no-touch love. He would scream about a guy putting his hand on a girl's knee or women giving each other backrubs while he was repeatedly committing adultery! He would scream about going to the movies or drinking, and he ended up a drug addict. He divided so many families and marriages. Sure he preached the gospel and some truth from the bible, but you don't have to be saved to do that. By their fruits you know them. I think the verse about "false prophets in sheeps clothing who are inwardly ravenous wolves" fits him to a T. Of course I cannot be sure but my opinion is that he was not saved. He used Jesus and Christianity to feed his own ego and selfish needs. He is despicable. If I saw him today I would spit in his face | ||
| beetle New member Username: beetle Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 67.72.98.87 |
I think that you jim make alot of sense in the biblical arena.people on fact net do have good points but I have noticed they think if they say a so called brilliant idea that others will see some kind of truth within themseves.Christ does not change neither does the word!I am not the person that has the ansewers to enlighten anyone but I can say I have been in wis bc,tbswo,ggwo longer than anyone I know and the diff people I have met is awsome.either you know me or my family which is not at all impressive.If I would have stayed in Maine my life would have been a lot diff.The things I have gone through were very,very heart breaking but if I had a choice now I see God did so many miracles and left a Godly imprint on my soul why would anyone spend thier time argue the fact of Gods perfect will.Usally what we want is our will not his.unless our will is his(knowing we can not do anything without Him.)You all have great point just remeber Chist is reading this too.how does He rate your qes.ans.??? | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
beetle Thank you for a well balanced message without bitterness. "Usally what we want is our will not his.unless our will is his(knowing we can not do anything without Him.)" You have learned to know Him well over the years "press on to the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus." | ||
| rjfernalld Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1824 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.98.143 |
I seem to recall fondly a guy from Pittsburg named Jim Buckley who went to SSB in Lenox when I did....are you that same guy? I worked in the Bookstore. Anyway, you said "I don’t see the mood, heartbeat or the love of Christ in any movement that slanders, maligns, gossips or tries to destroy a member of The Body of Christ, no matter what the reason is or how good the intentions are." I agree and that is my exact feeling about GGWO. I wish it were not so, but this is what GGWO is and what TBS was, though most of us didn't see it clearly at the time. I am glad I can see clearly now. Scott and I left and now see Stevens and the"church" much clearer.... Roberta (Croteau) Fernalld | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
rjfernalld Yes Roberta, that would be me. Day after day at the front gate. Thank you, I was trying to remember your husbands name, I could place his face but couldn't remember his first name. | ||
| whatsup Intermediate Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 233 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 56.0.143.23 |
So true, Roberta....where was the mood or heartbeat or love of Christ in the rap sessions when members of the Body of Christ were ripped to shreds and "marked"... when their reputations were destroyed and personal things about them were exposed...even outright lies told. Yet CHS could do that, and then preach not to speak an evil word. Give me a break | ||
| rjfernalld Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1826 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.98.143 |
I remember those rap sessions. It was hard to watch...I often wonder how I stayed as long as I did. | ||
| rjfernalld Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1827 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.98.143 |
"Are you implying CHS is not saved" Only his rug maker and God can know that for sure, Jim. Seriously, whether CHS is saved or not is simply not relevent to the discussion of his sins against the congregation. He personally destroyed many lives, many families and led many many people astray. He personally did some and instructed many of the rest of us to do it too. His salvation is between him and God...I personally see nothing but rotten fruit, but I am not all knowing. CHS salvation? I simply just don't really care. | ||
| lana Advanced Member Username: lana Post Number: 621 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.206.200 |
What is the high calling in Jesus Christ? As Paul said "I die daily", He finally gave him self up, from the law of sin and death. Then He became the greatest Apostle. It doesn't happen over night with us. The just shall live by Faith. He is closer to us than our own breathing. When through Faith, we rely on Him in every moment of our every day lives, He is there. He tells us not to fear or worry. He will be there for us. We are His children, He is our Father. Its not easy but it always works. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
rjfernalld "whether CHS is saved or not is simply not relevent to the discussion of his sins against the congregation." Actually the topic of this thread is about focus. If one was focused on Christ they wouldn't be obsessed with CHS and GGWO. The obsessed are enslaved to the destruction of CHS and GGWO and are to blind to this it. They go from one form of deception to another. Before they had an excuse, they blame it on a man and his ministry. Now they are responsible for their own brainwashing, they chose daily to allow the obsession of CHS and GGWO to take hold of their thought life and reject anything about about grace toward CHS and GGWO. Righteous indignation will solve nothing: Jam 1:19 This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; Jam 1:20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God. lana "As Paul said "I die daily"" Why? He tell us why in the preceding verse: 1Co 15:30 Why are we also in danger every hour? He was speaking of his natural life. Paul knew well that in his spiritual life that he was already dead and buried with Christ at His crucifixion. | ||
| lana Advanced Member Username: lana Post Number: 622 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.206.192 |
Buckley, I was there in Lenox when you were. I have family who are still in the cult. I know what happened to me. I was a Christian, many years before I went there. Very sutblty, I replaced Christs place in me for a man and a ministry. It took years to get back. You can throw out all the scriptures you want. I know them too. Paul like all of us had a sin nature to overcome like all of us after we are born again. You are still in the cult, and think that the finished work sets you free of the Cross. It doesn't! Otherwise, we would all be saints. We have to be "doers" of the Word, not just "knowers". Do you trust Him for every thought you think, for every move you make, for your very strength, and every word out of your mouth? Christ did to God. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Are you implying CHS is not saved? Or are you just taking Scripture out of context? "david_munson" Some words of life to ponder. 2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
lana "and think that the finished work sets you free of the Cross" No, I think that The Finished Work of the Cross has set me free. I can't understand why the above post keeps popping up? Any thoughts? | ||
| lana Advanced Member Username: lana Post Number: 623 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.206.192 |
Buckley, so You are saying set you free of the cross? What is the cross to you? There is something wrong here, and I think it goes to the heart of this cult. Everything is covered instantly when you sin, and admit it to God, and go on.to the next failing and admit it. That is not Biblical! That is what CHS taught, and hid behind and taught. Its not that way in the real world. You would have a rude awakening when confronted with reality. Hiding behind scriptures to back up false teachings.as CHS hid behind his sexual sins is disgusting. | ||
| out New member Username: out Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 151.196.28.3 |
Jim, Do you believe there is ever a situation were a believer should be held accountable for his sinful behavior by other believers? Do you believe that our position in Christ protects us so only God can deal with sin? Is it your understanding that anyone in TBS/GGWO who witnessed wrongdoing in the leadership should just leave and never speak about it? Is this what you did? Or are you still attending a GGWO church? Out | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
lana "Everything is covered instantly when you sin, and admit it to God, and go on.to the next failing and admit it. That is not Biblical!" 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is what the Bible teaches, but the natural man wants no part of grace, he wants to earn and deserve. "Its not that way in the real world." Confessing our sins, has nothing to do with the world. The world is contrary to the spiritual life. Joh 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. "You would have a rude awakening when confronted with reality. Hiding behind scriptures to back up false teachings.as CHS hid behind his sexual sins is disgusting." I don't think you'll find many here who will disagree with 1 Jn 1:9. Once we name our sin we are back in fellowship with the Father and the Son. Nobody's been claiming that rebound is a false doctrine that I know of, though I have not read every post. Confronting reality you say? I think I have confronted the reality of the believer's position in Christ in every today, which has mostly been rejected. It's a lot more stimulating for the flesh to live in the land of make believe with Mr. Rodgers and King Friday. I know your sins are not as disgusting as CHS today, but some day you may come to to the realization that: Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing... and see yourself in the glory of Christ as Peter did: Luk 5:8 But when Simon Peter saw that, he fell down at Jesus' feet, saying, "Go away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man!" | ||
| hodeuon Advanced Member Username: hodeuon Post Number: 561 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.50.121.170 |
Mr. Buckley, That was a good clarification on God's will. So about that slandering and maligning... It's not slander when it's true. And the Srriptures do say that a sinning elder should be rebuked in front of all. Carl Stevens and GGWO have been approached singly, doubly, in private, internally. At this point it's time to tell it to the church. Hodeuon | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
out "Do you believe there is ever a situation were a believer should be held accountable for his sinful behavior by other believers?" Not believers in general. "Do you believe that our position in Christ protects us so only God can deal with sin?" No. "Is it your understanding that anyone in TBS/GGWO who witnessed wrongdoing in the leadership should just leave and never speak about it?" Yes, we are all sinners (wrongdoers), what is the purpose of exposing someone's sin(s)? If you leave under your own free volition there is no reason for you to meddle into the affairs of another, leave that to the people who are still there. I really have to bring this out. I 2 Cor 11:23-28 Paul lists the afflictions he had suffered form the hands of his own countrymen. Was he bitter toward them, this is beautiful, this is the heart of Christ: Rom 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh. Paul would give up his own salvation if he could to gain the salvation of his kinsmen. See how the rulers of Israel treated him, much affliction and persecution, more than any ten men could handle outside the grace of God. But he desperately desired their union with Christ, not revenge, not to destroy and not to slander, malign and gossip. God was going to all of Israel except for Moses. But what did Moses say: If you take them out Lord take me out with them (paraphrase). Is this not the unity of the Spirit in Christ, His very heartbeat, His laying down His life for the brethren? The on goings of a local assembly are the affairs of that assembly only. Nobody elses. "Is this what you did?" Yes. "Or are you still attending a GGWO church?" No. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
hodeuon "And the Srriptures do say that a sinning elder should be rebuked in front of all." Yes it does say that, but in it's proper context the Elder is to be rebuked by the Elders of his local assembly. There is nothing in this passage that allows for disgruntled former members of the assembly to disrupt the unity of that assembly. If the members of an assembly desire the fallen elder to be rebuked before them that is one thing, but for outsiders to demand that the assembly require this is a whole othe matter. The bottom line to the outsider is to butt out, get on with your life in Christ. In Him is all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge and He wants to impart them to "whosoever will". "At this point it's time to tell it to the church." Please understand this refers to the local assembly, not the universal Body of Christ. The members of GGWO Baltimore have spoken their mind, let them rest in their decision. Christ is still "the brains of the operation". | ||
| forte Intermediate Member Username: forte Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
Buckley is sounding very much like schaller/lange type of thinking. I can't read through all the garbage because it's reminding me too much of the "James" messages from GG. There's a familiar tone there with an odd twist. can't quite put my finger on it but...hopefully somebody will. feels strangely like a trap. | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
forte Discernment comes from the Word of God, not from observation. But you already know that. | ||
| forte Intermediate Member Username: forte Post Number: 290 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
Yup. All set. | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 832 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
From the early Church to the early 1500's justification by faith was lost. So, with your superior acquaintance with Church history--apparently there was no "church" during these years--is that right? The Church of Rome taught allegorically and the common people suffered spiritually. They were taught that "good works" may or may not secure their salvation. Evil, wicked, false doctrines saturated the civilized world for centuries. But God let it go on for 1300-1400 years, until He raised up Martin Luther. Why didn't He deal with these false doctrines right away and protect His people, surely He must have known that multitudes were deceived. No one can answer that, but in hindsight we know it was the plan of God. He was not shocked or surprised by the leadership of the Church. The 1500's gave us the Reformation, “Justification by Faith”, a long lost doctrine bringing rest to the souls of many. Luther received great illumination with much suffering and persecution but his illumination only carried him to Romans 5 where he stopped short, which is understandable. He never really looked at Romans 6,7,8 in the same light. So a lot of false doctrine still prevailed. I note that you seem to be very competent in your knowledge of Martin Luther's understanding of the epistle to the Romans. Would you comment please, quoting from Luther's commentary on the same, which includes chapter by chapter exposition from 1:1 to 16:27 to explain exactly where it was that Luther got, in your lingo--"off"? What was it that you see in his understanding of those verses, referring to his commentary--that he did not see "in the same way" as he did the first five chapters? Want to comment on Luther's conversion experience and his misapprehension of Romans 10 in particular? Also would you also explain how it is that his understanding of Galatians is impaired by this thinking as well--quoting from his commentary on that epistle as well? Finally, my dear brother, would you give us your summary understanding of Luther's seminal work, "The Bondage of the Will" and how that was 'off', particularly in light of its impact on the so-called 'Reformation'? | ||
| rjfernalld Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1830 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.109.249.29 |
"There's a familiar tone there with an odd twist. can't quite put my finger on it but...hopefully somebody will." Rick Knapp? | ||
| jim_buckley Junior Member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
cordell "So, with your superior acquaintance with Church history" Thank you, but why do you say that? That almost sounds like a slam. "apparently there was no "church" during these years--is that right?" You'll never make detective. God always keeps a remnant. "Would you comment please, quoting from Luther's commentary" No. No I won't go to left field with you. You enjoy you own assumptions of what you read into things. To be honest Luthers writtings aren't really worth reading, there are more advanced teachings available to us today. Luther only struck a match compaired to the Light we now have. But if your into Covenant Theology he's your man. | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 836 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
It is a slam, because you are pompous in your pronouncements. Without "justification by faith" there is NO Church. If it was 'lost' as you say for so many years, there were no saved people, because this is the doctrine on which the 'church' stands or falls. You can't be 'saved' without being justified by faith. If there was a 'remnant' (in your feeble understanding) the justification wasn't 'lost'. Left field? You started the comments on what you say you know about what Luther did or didn't understand concerning the epistle to the Romans. You have obviously never read a single page of Luther, and he had more understanding of Romans in his excrement than you have in your head--which seems to contain the same as evidenced by your inane blather. Luther's writings not worth reading? Why should we read your tripe? You can make comments about the knowledge of a man you know absolutely nothing about and we should listen to you? By the way, Luther was not a Covenant Theologian, so again your ignorance is gaping. You need to quit now while you're ahead--this is not the kiddie pool you're wading into you arrogant little bozoboy. | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 838 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
Let me guess genius, you probably think Miles Stanford is a theologian of note and you think Clarence Larkin is an expert on eschatalogy (because his comics are easy for you to read), right? You really are not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you, sonny? | ||
| jim_buckley Junior Member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Are you implying CHS is not saved? Or are you just taking Scripture out of context? "david_munson" Some words of life to ponder. 2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 840 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
Heed your own warning, chucklehead. Take a deep breath and try to have an original thought. I wonder if CHS was dipping his little stinger in your wife's honeypot if you'd be buzzing the same tune you are now, lumpy. | ||
| whatsup Intermediate Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 71.233.128.194 |
oh he would not mind because that would just be CHS flesh and he would not know him after that | ||
| minutus Senior Member Username: minutus Post Number: 1052 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.99.93.89 |
"The on goings of a local assembly are the affairs of that assembly only. Nobody elses." http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=333118#POST333118 In that case we should throw out most of the Epistles, since they were written by outsiders to correct heresies and misbehavior in local assemblies. In many cases the author had helped establish the church in question, but not all the time. No church operates in a vacuum. (Message edited by minutus on August 26, 2006) | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 841 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
Buckley my boy, you better go beddie-bye now. You came to a gunfight with your plastic spork from Mickey D's to spread your Texas Pete's sauce. | ||
| jim_buckley Junior Member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 68.168.169.71 |
cordell You still think you wrestle with flesh and blood. | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 843 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.41.196.190 |
Obviously you're flesh and blood, I just wonder about brain. But then I heard you were a gnostic. | ||
| david_munson Senior Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 3031 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.145.204.204 |
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Are you implying CHS is not saved? Or are you just taking Scripture out of context? "david_munson" --- Here's a little reality for you Jim, Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. These words are still meaningful today and maybe even more so. I have to ask you why you would enable the harm that is done to God's people by keeping them in the dark and without knowledge? An unrepentent pastor does more harm to the body when left to his own devices than those who cry ,"BEWARE!" You must not care enough about Christ's body to do the biblical hard thing. Yes Carl was a wolf that did his own thing for his own purposes by twisting scripture around to bring people into bondage to him. You want to defend silence on that issue? That would make you an enabler. That destroys your credebility as a watchman of the body. Do you realise that you are defending evil? Not only that but you use the Holy Word of God almighty to do it. Since we are the body universal,we have not only the right but the duty to point out error and missuse of scripture for heinous reasons. That includes all our brethren throughout the world. Please go and seek understanding of who the body of Christ is. You lack in this area very seriously. Dave } | ||
| jim_buckley New member Username: jim_buckley Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 71.60.109.113 |
david_munson "Here's a little reality for you Jim, Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD." You stopped short friend, the second verse continues: "...I AM about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds," declares the LORD." | ||
| anon_brief New member Username: anon_brief Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.15 |
Must be convention time... | ||
| cordell Junior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
YiMiNnyBUck! | ||
| david_munson Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 73 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 63.22.190.144 |
Well then Mr.Buckley, I see that you now agree with the Word of God on this issue. Pastors that scatter the sheep will be delt with. I do hope you don't continue to erroneously assert that "Touch not mine anointed" twist which Carl used to protect his agenda with. It must be convention time. } | ||
| cordell Junior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
If yIMinNYBucK was "touching himself" (ahem...) would that be the same as "touching God's anointed?" | ||
| cordell Junior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
Here ya go! | ||
| rjfernalld New member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.124.225 |
I remember the conventions in Lenox...it was always looney tunes meets abbott and costello....LOL | ||
| shat_happens Junior Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.1.234 |
http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2005/11/tantrums.html |
