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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Mike Peters' Group in Charlotte, NC willie_tasby 1  1  8-07-07  11:27 am Summary of problems with Peter's Indianapolis Church + Questions... zadieboy 2  1  7-06-07  10:26 am   Start New Thread

< Author Message   getagrip Intermediate Member Username: getagrip Post Number: 215 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 72.64.223.244 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 12:10 am:        The other takes too long to scroll down...   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:09 pm:        To our readers at home: Well, I'm not trying to be ugly, but certainly what UltimateTruthTweeker and DanRepentRepent are up to these days isn't nice, so... I'm really not of the opinion that they deserve to be directly addressed any longer. DanRepentRepent mentions in his note posted to his "cult" board on the "lady" (under the "Columbus Group" link) that he's been "ignored" and all I have to say is, I really can't blame the folks in Columbus for feeling this way. If they pressured the folks there like they have me here (and then pretentiously attempt to paint this as simply a "discussion" when it is far from anything like that!!!), then I don't blame them abit. And it's clear they've been just as demanding in Columbus as they have with me here, so... These men are pompous, arrogant, prideful men who are reacting essentially to "not getting their way" (in the past as well as now). They have no authority, neither civil and certainly not any spiritual authority, for doing what they are doing. I would like to attempt here to bring out a few things that will likely help shed light on that for those of you at home that are reading along (sorrowfully, no doubt, I'm sure) here in a minute. But can you imagine these men "busting into" your church, pinning your leaders up against a wall, and pridefully and pompously demanding "answers" just as they are here (and have done in Columbus)? And then, with the answers you do happen to give, hoping to show yourselves innocent as you are, their response is to accuse you of lying, "covering up," "conspiracies" and other insinuations and accusations and just keep "digging" further and further, never believing anything you offer as contrite explanation? Again, I say to them and to everyone else reading, no church in America would put up with this. If they were to do this to Dobson, Graham, McDowell, or any church on any street in America, they would be turned out on their ears according to the attitudes and prideful, arrogant demands and twisting accusations they are using on the churches in question. Picture your own church in such a situation. These guys have put together their own "church auditing agency" here. (All this after maybe someone in your church had the guts [audacity is how they would see it] to stand up to them in the past...) And notice how they keep "harping" on and "insinuating" about the "leadership" of those churches? Those leaders saw through the charade of what these men were like (eg. they didn't become prideful, arrogant, demanding, know-it-all creatures overnight, do you think?), and so of course they are upset and bent on some "smear campaign." But leaders, by definition, are supposed to protect and help those that are in their care (both from within and from without), so what's the big deal they are making out of that? Again, in any of your churches, if your churches were attacked, would your leaders just stand by and just "let it happen" (like "watching TV" to borrow an ironically pertinent phrase)??? Do you think that in your church your leaders would just sit and let them do this without intervening and having a word or two with them? Your leaders would be wrong not to! That's what a "leader" is, right??!!   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:11 pm:        There are probably 10 churches within a 5 mile radius of where I live. If I were to jump into any of these congregations -- Baptists, Methodists, Lutheran, or even crazy-off-the-wall whatever (who am I to entitle myself in the same way they do, judge as they do, and say???) etc. -- and start making accusations of that church and their leaders and telling them that their answers (if they even answered at all and didn't just call the police right away!!) were "non-answers" because I've already decided who they are and what they are like and how they function... What do you suppose the response would be? And in comparision, all that has happened thus far is that these men who are upset with things in the past were and are simply being ignored. Ignoring someone (which even Jesus did), especally when there is good reason for it, doesn't make someone a "cult," folks. I hope that's easy to see. There are any number of inconsistencies, falsehoods, accusations, twisting of scriptures and other things I could point out here of things even mentioned recently. Let me hit on a few more and see if this helps anyone at home (since I'm pretty sure it will mean nothing to the guys posting here on a regular basis since their minds are obviously made up as has been pointed out on several occasions). Then I'll slide on outta here for a while again. I can only bear to be in here about once a week now anyway. Since this is quite a "dirty den."   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:18 pm:        "EXILED FOREVER" Oh boy, here we go again... DanRepentRepent states as "fact" (again) that I have been "exiled forever"... Not sure where he's geting that (well, actually I do know, it's just not from anything he's found that bears that out as "fact"). It sounds distinctly like indignant opinion again, stated as fact when there is no proof of that to be found. No one's ever said that to me, I have no written documentation of that, and neither does DanRepentRepent. He's only stating his indignant opinion as "fact." First of all, when I was asked to leave the first time, I was asked later if I would like to come back since people then were under the impression that I had made some progress in a particular (and very dangerous, I might add) area in my life that lead to many re-occuring sins. So if I was asked back, how can that be "exiled forever?" Can anyone see how this is just DanRepentRepent's opinion??? And I would never rule out being asked to come back again at some point, and "coming back" would never be a part of the discussion anyway since the vision there and here with me is an Acts 17 vision -- it's God who determines the times and places for men to live. Not men. At one point in time, I was lead to live there (twice actually), and presently I am not. It's really that simple. And at some point, I might be again...? This is a "concept" that DanRepentRepent and others here perhaps have a difficult time wrapping themselves around that men can be sensitive enough to what God wants in something as important "where I live" and can actually hear and respond to God's heart on it. So where's the "permanantly exiled" thing DanRepentRepent is touting as "fact?" And the same would be true for the "lady" under the "Columbus Group" link on DRR's evil "cult" web site. I don't have to know the details of her situation to know that for a fact because countless people have been in, been out, and been back to both Columbus and Indianapolis multiple times. In fact, I can think of several on that "list" that was posted a while back that did the same and even some that are on the "list" (supposedly to show how "Indy has destroyed these people") that are living there now. So much for "destroyed lives", "who's 'in' and who's 'out' in Indy", "permanent exhile" and several other accusations thrown around in here time and time again. The real, proveable, actual facts regarding these people used to "prove how bad things are" aren't even close. So, sorry DanRepentRepent... No "permanent exhile" exists as much as you would like it to so things could be "painted" so "hard" and "legalistic" in those places. It's only just your indignant opinion again, twisting and stating things as "fact."   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:22 pm:        Also for more light on why I'm not living in "Indy" at the moment was also directed to Jen earlier in this thread. You can read my quoting of her very similar questions and my responses to those here: http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=302425#POST302425 Can you guy's out there understand that if DanRepentRepent is stating this "permanent exhile" thing as "fact" when it's not, that there could be (and are, I assure you) many other things he thinks he "knows" and "has seen" that he is judging and handling and drawing similar conclusions on in the same way? When you have a "hidden agenda" everything looks like a "conspiracy"... Oh, that's supposed to be "When you have a hammer..." Oh, never mind... (Here's a little story on how indignancy with something you don't believe is true and more importantly don't like being true [like "what you believe" can change the "facts" of anything, you know...?] can cause someone like DanRepentRepent and others to start saying things that not only aren't true, but to start "twisting" facts and throwing basely accusations based solely on OPINION because there's a "hidden agenda" involved... I was watching a special on the History Channel this week on the book of Revelation, and a well known and popular "pastor" actually very pointedly and strongly stated as "fact" that John the Apostle was "a very hard, introverted, mad and angry man"...!!! Wow. Now where in the WORLD did he ever get that idea??? The "Love Apostle" being "angry at the world???" And here he is in an interview on the HC trying to state that as fact and of course using his so-called "credentials" and divinity "degree" whatever those are anyway] as leverage to shove that "fact" down every listener's throat. A very "polished" man, by the way... You wanna know why this "pastor" was saying that??? Because the "hidden agenda" behind the statement of "fact" concerning John's "disposition" has that this "pastor" doesn't believe in hell. And since John wrote rather prolifically about hell in Revelation, of course in an attempt to "discredit" John, he makes up this garbage about how John is "hard, introverted, and just angry at the world." Of course the implication there is that we really shouldn't be taking the book of Revelation very seriously as a result becase John was just a "crackpot." No archeological evidence or scriptural proof for this "opinion" [stated as fact] has ever been unearthed in the history of the world and yet he states this as "fact"... It certainly does remind be of many things here, including "permanent exhile" which ironically since we are talking about John, he was, but I am not and neither is anyone else I know about...)   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 84 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:25 pm:        "LADY" IN "COLUMBUS LETTER" ON EVIL "CULT" WEB SITE Okay, so DanRepentRepent states in his "letter" about the "lady" in Columbus (on his evil "cult" web site) that she's "doing much better now." The implication being that the Columbus group was "subverting" her in some way and of course implying "they are a cult." Well you know... how does that prove any of that? See, it's "how" it's being presented that is so evil because it doesn't prove anything other than that is just their indiginant opinion again. She could be "feeling better" for a variety of spiritual reasons according to God, none of which prove anything so conclusive about the people in Columbus (or Indy). I have a close relative that once was a christian. She taught Sunday School, studied, knew the scriptures very well, wrote songs to God (beautiful songs), etc. For a decade after her conversion she exhuded great christian qualities. She had a dramtic influence on my life (and others) in turning to God such was her life. But later, she divorced and life started falling apart. To make a 30 year story short here, her life now is the greatly degenerated anti-thesis of what it once was: cursing comes from her mouth, she's self-centered, impressed and in love with the world, cold to God (doesn't even know if He exists now according to her own words), impatient, admittedly "not a christian" (denies Christ), etc. But she says she "has never felt better!!!" Because she's no longer under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and no longer feels "pressured" by anything. (Maybe we should ask DanRepentRepent to list her very mainline, easily recognized fundamental denomination as a "cult" too since she felt such "pressure" when she was with them and now "feels better" since she's left???) She says she would never go back to "being a christian" because she's out from under "pressure" now. She's left behind a life of conviction and a heart and mind God gave her once to sense and feel things. Now, her "conscience is seared as with a hot iron." So just because she says she's "doing better now than [she's] ever done in her whole life" (her exact words to me on many occasions) means nothing. Because sin necessarily has a "feel good," deception component to it. The Bible is clear about this and the "feeling better" sensation of feeling no sensations any longer when one's conscience is seared. So for the "lady" in the "letter' about Columbus, it means nothing with the one and two dimension information (and opinion) we are given on their evil "cult" web site. To accurately judge from words whether her "doing better" has anything at all to do with the Columbus group, we'd (general "we" -- everyone-reading-here "we") have to know HOW she feels better as opposed to WHAT and compare her sensation of "feeling better" to scriptures. Saying she "feels better" means nothing and it certainly doesn't prove anything conclusively about Columbus nor Indy. Can everyone see that?   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 85 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:27 pm:        And on the flip side (since I know it will be flipped this way, so I may as well go ahead and address that as well)... No one in Columbus or Indy feels that they are the "be all and end all" of anyone's lives. In many cases I know about (as well as my own situation), people there have willingly suggested to many others that maybe another church situation would suit them better? They are not at all opposed to that (and in fact in most situations encourage it -- 99.9999% of all people who write and want to "move to Indy" are asked to stay put, please, and just love God where you are!; some "cult" that is!!!), and if this lady is in fact "doing better" from God's perspective (and not just the "way she feels" because she's out from under the light and conviction now), no one would rejoice more than those in Columbus. The entire tenor of the AllAtHisFeet web site is: "This isn't about us, it's about Jesus. If we can help you in your walk with Him, great. If we can't, we simply hope that you will be all for Him that you can possibly be." Period. End of story. That's what they tell everyone who lives there now and literally hundreds of other people a day. The same is true at the micro level in people's lives. And if people "feel better" after they leave, then it proves nothing other than... they "feel better." Again WHY as opposed to WHAT would have to be proven along with testimony from both sides in the case of this "lady" as well as anyone else that would say that. But that picture isn't being painted on the evil "cult" web site of DanRepentRepent and UltimateTruthTweeker. Instead the "insinuation" is that "because this lady feels better now they must be a cult." (Isn't that so much how satan works everyone? Innuendo. Accusation. Partial "facts." Left out details. Presentation. Missing information which adds a necessary 3rd dimension before making a right judgement [as Jesus asked His followers to do]? Right?) Can we all just "feel better" about all this now with a better view as to why this lady might actually be "feeling better" herself? Neither of which proves what DanRepentRepent and UltimateTruthTweeker are "trying" to "prove?"   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:31 pm:        "BRAD C." (RECENTLY MENTIONED) AND OTHERS ON THAT "LIST" THAT WAS POSTED Another aside, but one that I think highlights (as with the "permanently exiled" false conclusions) how "facts" here aren't even right... I received an email this week from someone that knows "Brad C." (named recently on this board as another person experiencing "pressure" from "Indy") and he expressed total shock that someone would have that impression. He says he doesn't feel that way now and has never felt that way. And doesn't recall ever telling anyone this. Ever. So again, so much for the "facts" on this forum and on that "cult" board. I also know that a good number of those names listed earlier in this thread have good relationships with folks in Indy and have no issues with them. (Some even live there now as I mentioned earlier, and yet are painted as if something terrible is wrong and as if they don't live there now. Wow.) Again, so much for the "facts" and for "permanent exhile," persons "under pressure," and "marriages and lives torn asunder." I have indeed neglected to mention that my marriage was most definitely saved by the people in Indianapolis. A fact I, my wife, and children are eternally thankful for. I would actually wager that many more marriages have been saved that would have died if it were not for their loving and courageous insight and intervention. Again, that matches names on that list where the partners destroyed their marriages through very, very sinful, selfish choices (not Indy), and Indy has either saved or helped reconcile the two. (And again, isn't "intervention" what we [general "we" again] are supposed to be about as believers? To do something about lives around us when we see something that isn't like God? But when we do "intervene" as God commands, now we're "a cult"???)   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 87 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:33 pm:        FINALLY... Here's the deal: Anyone truly interested in the Truth, if they find this little ol' corner of the internet and their little ol' "cult board" are going to be asking questions of both sides, and I have no doubt that anyone with half an ounce of discernment and love for the Truth is going to see the ploys here as baseless (at the very least, and likely plainly satanic as it in fact is.) And anyone who wants an excuse for their disobedience will gladly and readily adopt DanRepentRepent and UltimateTruthTweeker's views. Which is as good as any other thing they might adopt to stop up their ears to the Truths of Jesus and His Kingdom, so in the end, it matters not. I've been in countless situations myself where I've "heard" things and had the decency and the heart to humbly seek the truth in those situations by checking into both sides (and weighing the most important things which weren't the "words" surrounding the situations anyway). And I know many others who love Truth who would and will do the same. I recently was told by an elder in a church here that some "big shot" came up North here a few years ago and "split the church." Well guess what? Maybe he did and maybe he didn't? Maybe this elder just didn't like what the guy had to say and there was a bunch of junk going on that was pointed out and people decided to stop putting up with it and left? (And so in an effort to deflect the light from his impotent leadership and unwillingness to be a lover of Truth and let "junk" happen under his watch, he "accuses" the "other guy" of something "awful." 'Cause it couldn't have been HIM that was wrong... Sound familiar?) Or maybe, just maybe the guy did "split the church?" Who knows? People that love God know that His enemies are multipled, can't see (or use) their spiritual noses to spite their faces (even though they "think" they "know" like these guys DRR and UTT do), and that they better do some checking around before believing everything that is "said" -- on both sides. I told you I did that with a "cult" group in the Northeast and I still do it whenever I "hear" something that that I'm not personally attached to (like this elder guy -- there are ways of asking and checking that aren't DEMANDING and full of POMPOUS, PRESUMPTUOUS PRIDE and ARROGANCE and ENTITLEMENT). So... Anyone with an ounce of real love for the Truth will do the same. AllAtHisFeet@cs.com (for questions to the folks in Indy regarding any of the junk accusations here) WirklichMir144@yahoo.com (for questions to me that are about me or other humbly asked questions I may be able to answer)   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:34 pm:        Well, I should probably break outta here and get back to real life. I know no one here is going to be pleased with this posting, calling it a "fillabuster" again or some other term, hoping to "state" things here in order to condition people at home on "how to view" things. (Hopefully you aren't "into" letting people manipulate you like that.) But as I already said, I have no fear at all that those with eyes to see, will see some of what I've said here, and for those that don't, they have one more excuse of the many others already out there to choke out the word of God regarding Jesus and His Kingdom. I might be back and I might not... Never know... It's become a bit of a "soap opera" in here, and God doesn't like or author "soap operas." Unfortunately I've allowed myself to get drug into that at times, and I need to pull back and watch out for that. -ChrisO   first_truth New member Username: first_truth Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 212.112.241.159 Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:27 pm:        Chris, Is Mike Peters character solid? Yes or No? Firsttruth then_freedom@yahoo.com   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 12:51 am:        ChrisO, Can you please answer First_Truths question… Is Mike Peters character solid? Yes or No? -------------------------------------------------------- You’ve taken me out of context several times. Before I go any further, I must establish how you have done this. “Permanent Exile” comment originated from this post: “About your answer to my question, which is why did you leave Indy? It appears that you stated that you were in sin and were given multiple chances. I have not seen it in the bible where a member of a local assembly is ex-communicated permanently. I know that is how the Catholic Church used to do it. Can you show me where this practice is displayed in the new testament? I don't know what your sin was, but it must have been pretty bad to get exiled forever from Indy. And by the way ChrisO, all sin is serious sin. I don't know what sins are not. Every sin put Christ on the cross. You use the term serious sin, like it is unforgivable and unrepentable. Jesus says, "Every sin will be forgiven under heaven, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".” The reason I stated this is because you (ChrisO) were asked to leave Indy (a Church) and you currently do not live there any more. Where in the bible do people get kick out of churches like that to the land of limbo/purgatory and wait by the phone to see if you’ve received your “call”? Where in the bible are people “invited” to join or return? Is it up to man or God? Let’s be honest, you were kick out of indy and the fact I brought it up has hit a serious nerve within you. That is why you posted 10 posts in a row to explain how upset you are at me and ultimate. Don’t you realize that you are displaying defensive mechanisms and ultimately you are proving us right? All of my statements can be backed up with prove. I was there, or I know someone who was. Augusta from Families against Cults is a major witness to the cult activity in Indianapolis/Mike Peters and nothing you say or do can take that away. I also know ex-members from both churches. There are many witnesses that are coming out to speak about what they have seen and heard. You my friend don’t know what you saying and you cross the line into presumption nearly every post. The “Evil Cult” website letter to Columbus: 1. People say “we love you and care about you”, however people are discredited and no one ever calls to see what the truth is. This is not caring and it causes people to be slandered. Two brothers slandered us without even talking to us first. Actually, we never heard from them except in response to some things we brought them. We protected them until we realized that they did not care. Ask [F] about this if you don’t believe us. We remember when [L] was “in a bad place” and we were afraid to call her or talk to her. We saw her in the library and we were filled with fear, so we left as soon as possible without saying a word. We knew not her transgressions, but we judged her because we heard she was “in a bad place”. It turns out that we have spoken to the [L] last summer through a circumstance that God ordained. [They]told us what God had shown [them] and how she repented when the Spirit of God finally broke through her religious/legalistic mindset. You might think “but [L] is in sin”. Well how do you know, if you never talk to her again? Does the bible say reject people forever? “(2 Thes 3:14-15 NASB) Be on your guard against any followers who refuse to obey what we have written in this letter. Put them to shame by not having anything to do with them. 15Don't consider them your enemies, but speak kindly to them as you would to any other follower.” We have seen the spark of life in [L] and she is better off now than she was. Find out for yourself if you really love her. (continued)   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 12:53 am:        (continued in response to ChrisO) The woman was exiled from the fellowship group without concrete evidence. She was shunned when people bumped into her around the city (library, grocery store, ect…). They didn’t even look at her face or say Hi when she was three feet away (We did this to her also, unfortunately). They never called her or tried to find out if she repented from this mysterious sin that they thought she had. Is that how Christians treat other Christians? It is not mentioned in the letter about “feel good”. I don’t know where you got that term. It was stated that she is doing better now than she was when she was in the cult. Now I have some questions for you. People at “home” want to know… Do a little research, if you've known him that long, find out the answers to the questions below… Is Mike Peters a scripture writing Apostle of Jesus Christ (with the authority of Paul or Peter)? (Yes or No) Did Mike Peters have a dream that Christ crowned him? (Yes or No) Is the Church synonymous with Jesus Himself, therefore making the leaders equal to Christ? (Yes or No)   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 1:01 am:        http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/thecall.aspx   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.163.190 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 1:09 am:        Ha Ha.. Chris O said a lot of stuff just now, but he did not (could not) say "i have not been in contact with Mike Peters in the last month" (unless i missed it in that mess). Chris still didn't answer. How suspicious! This is getting ridiculous. I think to anyone with an ounce of common sense, ChrisO clearly seems to be functioning as Mike's "Attack Dog" very directly. Ah well, now that Chris O is exposed too, there isn't much point in going on about it. Indiana/Mike Peters speaking through Chris is obviously very upset by just this little posting board. He got really angry and even made a mean animation of us on his "little website." Several characters came to his rescue here, but by paying attention to what they failed to say and what they couldn't deny, we have learned the most about Indy, and for this, I thank you all (whether you be real people or just multiple personalities of the same person). Several substantial efforts will go forth more and more to expose Indiana. I imagine that Mike Peters is so upset by all of this because he knows that people aren't under his control until he gets them in indiana or one of his satellites. What scares him, evidently, is that he knows people are going to search the Internet for "the rest of the story" after they find his website and materials. OF course, once people are under his control at one of his dominions, they will not be allowed freedom on the internet at all, but before that, they will find out "the other side" regarding Indy. Slowly this will even lead to current members finding out about what is going on. The truth will set them free. Mike's never-ending efforts to supress the truth and wage "INFORMATION WARS" will not win. The God of truth will win. It's time to deep-fry his lies in a certain kind of vegetable oil.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.163.190 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 1:18 am:        Ha Ha.. Chris O said a lot of stuff just now, but he did not (could not) say "i have not been in contact with Mike Peters in the last month" (unless i missed it in that mess). Chris still didn't answer. How suspicious! This is getting ridiculous. I think to anyone with an ounce of common sense, ChrisO clearly seems to be functioning as Mike's "Attack Dog" very directly. Ah well, now that Chris O is exposed too, there isn't much point in going on about it. Indiana/Mike Peters speaking through Chris is obviously very upset by just this little posting board. He got really angry and even made a mean animation of us on his "little website." Several characters came to his rescue here, but by paying attention to what they failed to say and what they couldn't deny, we have learned the most about Indy, and for this, I thank you all (whether you be real people or just multiple personalities of the same person). Several substantial efforts will go forth more and more to expose Indiana. I imagine that Mike Peters is so upset by all of this because he knows that people aren't under his control until he gets them in indiana or one of his satellites. What scares him, evidently, is that he knows people are going to search the Internet for "the rest of the story" after they find his website and materials. OF course, once people are under his control at one of his dominions, they will not be allowed freedom on the internet at all, but before that, they will find out "the other side" regarding Indy. Slowly this will even lead to current members finding out about what is going on. The truth will set them free. Mike's never-ending efforts to supress the truth and wage "INFORMATION WARS" will not win. The God of truth will win. It's time to deep-fry his lies in a certain kind of vegetable oil.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.163.190 Posted on Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 7:35 am:        Synopsis Dialogue: Ultimate Truth Seeker (UTS): ChrisO, can you simply say that you have not been in contact with Mike Peters during the last, say, month or so? ChrisO: I'm not going to talk to you anymore. You don't deserve to be addressed directly. UTS: Isn't that a little childish? Besides, now don't you think it really sounds like you have been in contact with Mike Peters since this is like the 5th time you've refused to say the above statement? (please, no more technical sneaky answers playing with words and referencing your very old posts. Don't you think misleading people is the same as lying?)   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:03 am:        Hi everyone. This is Mike R. from the previously posted list. A friend of mine came across this site and let me know about it thinking I might be interested since I was involved with this church for several years in Indy and other cities as well. I have read through many of the postings and do recognize some of you from the past. I am truly dissapointed and discouraged by some of what is written on this site. With other postings I am encouraged. I do understand that many people have been both helped and hurt in their interactions with the church being discussed here. Since my departure, I have spoken with several people who have remained in the church as well as those who have left- both before and after me. I left the church several years ago. I have been told by several people that what was communicated within the church regarding my departure and what actually happend are "slightly" different versions. My intent here though is not to defend myself. I make no claim here to be anything at all. I am not more spiritual, or more "Godly" to have left the church. In fact, I have made many, many poor choices over the last few years and there remains VERY MUCH in my character that truly does need to be changed. My intent here is to let those who have left to know that I do care and hope you are all prospering and moving forward in life. I myself am directly responsible for asking several people to leave the church over the years...maybe some of you personally. In looking back, I truly did believe that it was in the best interest of the church and the individuals involved to leave. If any of you would like to contact me for any reason at all you may do so at http://www.mroetker@edgeoffice.net   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:09 am:        Hi everyone. This is Mike R. from the previously posted list. A friend of mine came across this site and let me know about it thinking I might be interested since I was involved with this church for several years in Indy and other cities as well. I have read through many of the postings and do recognize some of you from the past. I am truly dissapointed and discouraged by some of what is written on this site. With other postings I am encouraged. I do understand that many people have been both helped and hurt in their interactions with the church being discussed here. Since my departure, I have spoken with several people who have remained in the church as well as those who have left- both before and after me. I left the church several years ago. I have been told by several people that what was communicated within the church regarding my departure and what actually happend are "slightly" different versions. My intent here though is not to defend myself. I make no claim here to be anything at all. I am not more spiritual, or more "Godly" to have left the church. In fact, I have made many, many poor choices over the last few years and there remains VERY MUCH in my character that truly does need to be changed. My intent here is to let those who have left to know that I do care and hope you are all prospering and moving forward in life. I myself am directly responsible for asking several people to leave the church over the years...maybe some of you personally. In looking back, I truly did believe that it was in the best interest of the church and the individuals involved to leave. If any of you would like to contact me for any reason at all you may do so at http://www.mroetker@edgeoffice.net   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:48 pm:        mike_valparaiso, What is your stance? Should people submit to Mike Peter's teaching or not? Are they are cult (mind control/false doctrine)? Thanks   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.146.37 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 8:10 am:        MikeR., Hi. Thank you for taking the time to post. Would you mind explaining why you left the church (feel free to omit anything too personal or not relavent) and what exactly leaving the church meant for you? Are you still in contact with members/leaders of the church? Have you been in contact with Mike Peters or others recently? You said that VERY MUCH in your character needs to be changed. I wonder if you could explain what is behind that. The reason why it strikes me as interesting is that I mostly hear people outside of Indy ("regular Christians") praise God for what He has done/is doing in their lives and ask for prayer for certain things. But it seems to me that people within Indy tend to talk about how much more they need to change, sorry, i should use caps: THEY need to change, and how they are not as good, calm, patient, honest etc. as others or as they could be. So just wondering what I'm missing there and where you are. thanks   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 12:21 pm:        danrepent and ultimatetruthseeker, My intent at this point in posting on this site is simply to make myself available to those who have posted here (some who I do recognize from the past). I believe it is obvious that some who have posted here are hurting for whatever reasons (legitimate or not). I have no "agenda" other than making myself available because I believe that not much was communicated within the church about my departure and I would welcome talking to some of those people whom I did care deeply for. That is why I have included my personal email address...it would be in that forum-not this one. I do not desire to "air out" anything here on the internet with people I do not know...and many which insist on remaining anonymous...I find it difficult to be comfortable with that. Furthermore, I also believe as others have pointed out here that if you have an issue with a brother then you should take it to him and him alone FIRST...then to the church. I am not sure that is what is being done here in each instance. There are many people that I still care for to this day who have remained at the church in Indy/Columbus for a variety of reasons. I do not hold anything against any of them personally- including Mike Peters whom I was very close with. There is absolutely no question there are problems within the church there---show me a church where there are none. The question then becomes are those problems a direct result of some of the beliefs and or teachings coming from the church? I will not give my two cents worth here. There is no question that my life has been, and continues to be affected by some of those beliefs and teachings because some of those very close to me continue to adhere to them when I no longer do. I truly did desire to leave the church in as "clean" a way as possible and unfortunately that did not happen, and unfortuanately rarely ever does---anywhere. So, to those who would like to contact me directly again for whatever reason feel free to do so at mroetker@edgeoffice.net   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 12:30 pm:        danrepent and ultimatetruthseeker, My intent at this point in posting on this site is simply to make myself available to those who have posted here (some who I do recognize from the past). I believe it is obvious that some who have posted here are hurting for whatever reasons (legitimate or not). I have no "agenda" other than making myself available because I believe that not much was communicated within the church about my departure and I would welcome talking to some of those people whom I did care deeply for. That is why I have included my personal email address...it would be in that forum-not this one. I do not desire to "air out" anything here on the internet with people I do not know...and many which insist on remaining anonymous...I find it difficult to be comfortable with that. Furthermore, I also believe as others have pointed out here that if you have an issue with a brother then you should take it to him and him alone FIRST...then to the church. I am not sure that is what is being done here in each instance. There are many people that I still care for to this day who have remained at the church in Indy/Columbus for a variety of reasons. I do not hold anything against any of them personally- including Mike Peters whom I was very close with. There is absolutely no question there are problems within the church there---show me a church where there are none. The question then becomes are those problems a direct result of some of the beliefs and or teachings coming from the church? I will not give my two cents worth here. There is no question that my life has been, and continues to be affected by some of those beliefs and teachings because some of those very close to me continue to adhere to them when I no longer do. I truly did desire to leave the church in as "clean" a way as possible and unfortunately that did not happen, and unfortuanately rarely ever does---anywhere. So, to those who would like to contact me directly again for whatever reason feel free to do so at mroetker@edgeoffice.net   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.146.37 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 1:55 pm:        Mroetker, my sympathies to you. I have also experienced what you described as "my life has been affected by some of those beliefs and teachings..." While for you it is because some of those close to you still adhere to them. For me, it is because they have created a strong "tearing down" of other Christian religion expressions... tearing down their validity, and it makes it hard for me to go along with the flow anymore. I would be grateful if you could post some of the things you have experienced on your journey towards rejecting their teachings. also, I am sorry, but i have to ask again just to be clear... you are not currently, recently (say the last month or so) in contact with Mike peters or other members of the group are you? thanks!   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 2:06 pm:        danrepent and ultimatetruthseeker, My intent at this point in posting on this site is simply to make myself available to those who have posted here (some who I do recognize from the past). I believe it is obvious that some who have posted here are hurting for whatever reasons (legitimate or not). I have no "agenda" other than making myself available because I believe that not much was communicated within the church about my departure and I would welcome talking to some of those people whom I did care deeply for. That is why I have included my personal email address...it would be in that forum-not this one. I do not desire to "air out" anything here on the internet with people I do not know...and many which insist on remaining anonymous...I find it difficult to be comfortable with that. Furthermore, I also believe as others have pointed out here that if you have an issue with a brother then you should take it to him and him alone FIRST...then to the church. I am not sure that is what is being done here in each instance. There are many people that I still care for to this day who have remained at the church in Indy/Columbus for a variety of reasons. I do not hold anything against any of them personally- including Mike Peters whom I was very close with. There is absolutely no question there are problems within the church there---show me a church where there are none. The question then becomes are those problems a direct result of some of the beliefs and or teachings coming from the church? I will not give my two cents worth here. There is no question that my life has been, and continues to be affected by some of those beliefs and teachings because some of those very close to me continue to adhere to them when I no longer do. I truly did desire to leave the church in as "clean" a way as possible and unfortunately that did not happen, and unfortuanately rarely ever does---anywhere. So, to those who would like to contact me directly again for whatever reason feel free to do so at mroetker@edgeoffice.net   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 2:12 pm:        Sorry for the multiple postings of the same info...obviously having trouble with the server here. Anyway, to answer you DIRECTLY - no, I have not been in contact with Mike P. or other active members within the church recently and am therefore not speaking for anyone else.   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 2:42 pm:        Mike, Can you tell me what your thoughts are about indy being a cult under Mike Peters? Thanks (Message edited by danrepent on August 08, 2006)   mike_valparaiso New member Username: mike_valparaiso Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.206.229.180 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 5:05 pm:        ultimatetruthseeker and danrepent, Your going to have to help me justify this process you are asking me to undertake. I have stated clearly that I have no desire to "air out" anything here on the internet. I have no intention of "throwing anyone under a bus" and I still have a real problem with sharing my experiences with people I do not know anything about and who insist on remaining anonymous. Your really going to have to help me with this perspective of yours. I have offered my email address feely and if you would like to introduce yourself in that format, please...and I DO mean this sincerely-PLEASE do so. But your offers to "air this all out" on the internet with people I have no knowledge of or relationship with is a bit perplexing to me? Where is this in the process of "take it to him and him alone, if he will not hear you then take it to the church"? Am I to then broadcast it on the internet for anyone who would like to know? Please, I am in no way trying to insult either of you...I know nothing about you...let alone who you are. But neither of you have to this point made any attempt to contact me directly...only asking me to elaborate in this forum. Why?   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 8:13 pm:        Using the Factnet criteria and the testimony of many other witnesses, the indianapolis group is strongly consider a cult organization. http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm There are a few reasons why we are asking you to reveal what your position is: 1.) You posted to this discusion board that is a cult fighting organization. Some of us are here to help other member become free. How do we know why your doing what you are doing? If you want to contact ex-indy members, a lot of them left their emails in their posts, just email them directly. 2.) FactNet encourages people's testimony about the groups they left, so that many reading can make the determination for themselves. "Our purpose is to provide an open forum for people to present their personal experiences in a safe environment regarding the "cult watch" and "mind control watch" related topics provided by FACTNet Inc. "   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 9:31 pm:        mike r, I felt like my last two posts had a sharp edge on them. I am sorry, I might have come across offensive.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.178.33 Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 3:57 am:        Mike R. "take it to him alone." yes. I do not think there is any reason to bring up some conflict between yourself and someone else necessarily. I for one am not interested in "he said/she said" kinds of things as I have stated from the beginning. The reason to post on here is not to win some argument with someone else about what happened perhaps years ago in my opinion. The value of this posting board is one thing: to point out what goes on in the secret world of Mike Peters in Indiana. Many voices so far have come forward to show a common thread revealing what goes on with Indy. You are right to be doubtful about all of these anonymous people. I don't even share my real information with anyone of them who contact me through email (no offense of course!) We all could be anyone except those who have revealed themselves to those of us who can verify it. I applaud your decision not to share personal stuff with strangers, but there is no reason to. The stuff written on this posting board must be verified by each person who reads it. I wouldn't believe everything that anyone here says--what reason do I have to believe it? So what is the value of posting your story? I believe that there are several valuable things that do happen as we start to share and think together (although we are anonymous). One is that the dialogue with current members and supporters of the group (like ChrisO) start to reveal mind-sets, practices in the church (because the members collectively admit it or don't deny it again and again), teachings, decisions that they have made in their own lives due to these teachings, inconsistencies, attitudes, etc. Secondly, although we don’t know who everyone is, many voices are saying the same thing... and it has even gotten you personally to take a small step forward which is wonderful. Imagine how many more may start to come forward--maybe not even anonymously. If you care about people held captive by Peters' teachings, you can make a huge difference. Next is that we can tell people the right questions to ask. People get into the group because they think everything is on the up and up. They don't look behind the curtain, they just see the wonderful wizard of Oz. We are not asking people to take our word for it as scripture, but we are letting them know our stories so that they can be alert when they start getting pressured to leave their old friends, family, pastor, church... pressured to cut off relationships... pressured to confess all of their sins in a recording or something... pressured to let the others who are "closer to God" think for them because they are convinced that they need to spend time being really nit-picky before they too can hear from God. MikeR., maybe you can contribute something that doesn't involve a dispute with one other brother. Hope so   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.178.33 Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 4:05 am:        i wrote a song today... hope you like it. "Chris-O, o- o-, o- o-... you don't have to go... no- no- no- no-... just answer my simple question, on- on- on- on-... say you will, SAY you will. OH won't you stay?? Just a little bit longer..."   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 10:30 am:        ChrisO, You are such a Peterite!! I just counted -- your August 4th posting was SEVEN screens long! Wow! Where do you get the energy to keep defending these folks? Is it worth it? Have you even heard of the tactic called "filibustering"? Another Peterite trait: Coming up with cute little names for people and things, ie "FactNyet", "DanRepentRepent", and "UltimateTruthTweeker". You're hilarious! Every Peterite I know does the exact same thing! Hello everyone from England!   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 185 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 2:00 pm:        ChrisO, you said: >>But can you imagine these men "busting into" your church, pinning your leaders up against a wall, and pridefully and pompously demanding "answers" just as they are here (and have done in Columbus)?<< I haven't seen one person cyber-pinned to the wall or any cyber-chopsticks thrust in anyone's cyber-ears on this board. (the chopsticks were mentioned on the previous board) People also don't seem pompous or prideful to me here. Some seem hurt, some seem curious, some even seem mad. But I haven't seen the scene you describe above. Surely you didn't mean to describe it that way? >>This is a "concept" that DanRepentRepent and others here perhaps have a difficult time wrapping themselves around that men can be sensitive enough to what God wants in something as important "where I live" and can actually hear and respond to God's heart on it.<< I realize that you have been angered by much of what you have read on this board, but surely you didn't mean for this statement to sound as self-righteous as it does? I mean, no one corners the market on hearing from God, right? I'm reasonably sure you didn't mean it that way... Also, you said: >>I have indeed neglected to mention that my marriage was most definitely saved by the people in Indianapolis. A fact I, my wife, and children are eternally thankful for. I would actually wager that many more marriages have been saved that would have died if it were not for their loving and courageous insight and intervention.<< I just wanted to point this one out because I'm sure you didn't mean to attribute the saving of your marriage and other's marriages to men, but to God (working through men)? I read everything you said, and I just wanted to be clear on things, but I don't want to put words in your mouth... Just trying to sort through and understand some things... Jen (Message edited by speakingtruth on August 09, 2006)   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 6:42 pm:        http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/Testimonials.aspx   gottapost Junior Member Username: gottapost Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 154.35.47.59 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:32 am:        Another former Church in Indianapolis member speaks: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/23326.html   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 89 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:36 am:        To our readers at home: I just popped into the "cult" web site real quick tonight that some here have seen fit to put up on the internet and has been under "discussion" here. It's really so sad to see. Here are a couple of things to consider which I hope will be helpful regarding "how" that site is being put together that I hope speaks to the "validity" (eg. invalidity) of the site and how much one should really "believe" when reading it. Anyone can put up an internet site with their "indignant opinion": (1) Note the new "testimonial" page. Testimonials by default have to be ascribable to someone with a real name in order for them to be considered valid "testimonies." Without that, it's not a "testimonial." (Unless we're selling bleach here or something...) Who's to say that it wasn't just concocted? Anyone can write anything as a "testimonial." Where's the name? Consider also God's heart (command?) that anyone that bears testimony against someone else, do it face to face? If you are so convinced there is wrong, GOD requires that it be done COMPLETELY IN THE LIGHT!!! (Consider also the "rebuking of an older man" in Titus... How much more an entire CHURCH???) Does everyone see how this entire web site is throwing stones at the church in Indianapolis completely in the dark and from behind purposefully concealed identities? This is exactly satan's modus operandi -- how he "works" -- not God's!!! This so-called "cult web site" can't be taken seriously if it's just essentially a "hearsay" and "slander" site with some "we're bringing you 'real' information" assurances and "sprinklings" here and there. But no names and nothing that can be verified as God demands. (2) As I've indicated before, I do personally have some direct past experience with "cults"(*). In every case that I know about that a "cult site" or other help organization has been put together regarding any cult, the only ones with a good reputation and worth reading at all were all put together by people who:   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 90 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:41 am:        (a) Spent many years "inside" the cult, and spent a good part of their lives, sweating blood, trying to make necessary changes. They are then able to testify in a reputable and fully ascribable way (eg. real, knowable, contactable people, working fully in the LIGHT instead of "with bags over their heads"). That way, any issues of any real wrong-doing have a clear view, and generally from someone long associated with the thing under consideration (generally as a leader, and not a disgruntled member) so that there is no "slant" to their stories or other "hidden agenda." It's easy to discern there are real problems in those situations because it's not coming from someone "disgruntled" where the agenda can be very questionable and the recounting twisted at best. It's a real insider's view that way. (Generally, not always, but generally only leaders can give real insight into real problems since the word "leader" necessarily implies a working with certain elements that not everyone is privy to and for good reason -- they are leaders. That's true whether in a church setting, a corporate setting, or your neighborhood Bingo party organization committee. A good leader will necessarily have some people -- both "inside" and "outside" [I hate those terms, but oh well for now] -- who don't "like" them. That's part of being a leader [as well as a real Christian, by the way, according to Jesus...] Any reputable "self-help" book or author will tell you that. A bad leader will have an ever-increasing swelling of real, verifiable, known people who don't "like" them and among those will be numerous respectable, mature, reptuable people, often leaders themselves... THAT'S how you start smelling a real "rat" is when known, respectable, peer leaders have "problems." If there is a real problem, that will inevitably happen. And in 20 years that has never happened in this church. A leader has never left that church. That's always happened in every other certifiable "cult" situation that I know about -- leaders leaving. That's when you know almost for certain something's not "right.")   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:46 am:        (b) Reputable web sites done on real "cults"(*) are also done by mature, well-respected, fully known, well-meaning, christian adults in a respectful, mature, helpful, Christ-like way. Sarcasm, jesting, mocking and slander is never used on well-known, ascribable, reputable cult web sites. No one coming out of an actual cult who works according to the heart of Jesus would ever mock the cult with evil and hurtful plays on words (like "AllAtHisFeet" turned into "AllAtMikesFeet.") EVER. A sarcastic, jesting, mocking, ´Hah! We're nailing then GOOD!!!", elitist "overtone" would and is never to be found on anyone's web site that is worth reading and bears any reputation or repsect. Why? Because people who really love Jesus don't make fun of other people or real situations like that, especially people that they have labored with over a long period of time and still love (not "claim" to love). They really care from the heart and in most cases are shedding real tears. Real tears and care and accustations, mocking, slander, and undocumented, unverifiable "hearsay" and twisted opinions don't go together. The way people conduct themselves -- like Jesus -- says so much. Not how much they say "we are doing this because we care" -- like they are trying to "convince" you of that. Real care is identifiable by HOW people say what they say (eg. completely in the light, as GOD says and without sarcasm or mocking), not "what" they say. And especially if they've poured out a lot of their own time in the midst, attempting to help the people there do they have any real insight worth reading and sharing and which can be considered seriously at all.   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:53 am:        Doesn't all that just make sense? This so-called "cult web site" contradicts all of these things in manner, approach, expression, presentation, spirit and so many other ways. It's doubtful you will ever know who's behind it, or the "real people" behind these so-called "letters" and "testimonials" because there is very much a hidden agenda (and real, verifiable hidden sin, I might add) involved. So again, consider: (1) This site is being run completely in the dark, throwing stones, and operating in a way that is way, way, way less than Jesus would operate. Testimonies on good, reputable, worth-reading web sites are fully ascribable (so anyone can check out and verify the story as well as the spirit and motives behind the person or persons offering the "testimony.") (2) Sarcasm, jesting, mocking and other slander are what you read instead of documentable and definite SINS instead of "stories" and OPINIONS which are "twisted" to make things "sound" a certain way. So those are just a couple of things to consider, and I hope everyone will. Again, ask questions and follow up before drawing conclusions based on "hearsay" and "agenda." Through the years I've always been glad and blessed to have operated that way as any earnest and well-meaning believer would have to be. Especially those "not unaware of satan's devices" or mode of operation. At this point, it certainly doesn't appear likely you will be able to do that for this so-called "cult web site" without at least contacting the "gatekeeper" of it. Isn't THAT ironic? They accuse Indy of "gatekeeping" yet this is the only option people here are left with if they have enough integrity to ask questions about this is to contact the "gatekeeper" of this "cult web site." Again, I don't live in Indy so this isn't "their defense" -- just someone that knows them very, very well (some of them as far back as 30 years) and this "cult web site" so far is really pretty sad (and extremely evil -- I hope you all can see that by the way it's run that is so "not Jesus.") All of this was posted without looking at a single posting since I last posted. I'll be back later next week maybe to see what other shinanagans folks here have been "up to." ChrisO WirklichMir144@yahoo.com To contact the folks in Indy (I do not live there nor am I their "spokesman" per se -- just someone that knows certifiably these accusations are simply just that -- accusations and opinions and nothing more. The life in the church there is really simply fantastic. Not without "problems" or "perfect" as I've already pointed out many times, but certainly fantastic in they way they deal with problems and with the overall, daily quality of life. In sharp, sharp contrast I might add to their accusers...): AllAtHisFeet@cs.com   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:56 am:        * - I quote "cults" because again, I think it's clear that all "groups" contain (a) real people, regardless, and (b) because of that no apostle, prophet, evangelist or other Christian in the first century and immediately beyond that time ever lifted a pen to write about "cults" in their day since this approach isn't on God's heart. Tearing people down or even "warning" about them was never an agenda God or God's people in the early church EVER pursued that I have any knowledge of despite the presence of at least a dozen very serious cults in their day. So even in the presence of real cults -- which this church in Indianapolis is NOT, I can attest from having lived there for 4 years out of 20 in it's existence and with past experience in cults under my belt -- God never considered it important, and in fact I maintain that the absence of such writings indicates that God purposefully ignored such things and for several, several very good reasons (which I can detail if someone cares to understand why; the short of it is that it ends up doing more harm than good to "react" and "function" this way.)   gottapost Junior Member Username: gottapost Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 154.35.1.12 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:21 am:        http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/23326.html chrisO, please see for Tim S's testimonial and let us know in 10,000 (actually, make that 5) words or less if this qualifies in your Church in Indianapolis representative expert opinion. His story is not unique. http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/23326.html   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 186 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:29 am:        ChrisO, you said: >>No one coming out of an actual cult who works according to the heart of Jesus would ever mock the cult with evil and hurtful plays on words (like "AllAtHisFeet" turned into "AllAtMikesFeet.") EVER. A sarcastic, jesting, mocking, ´Hah! We're nailing then GOOD!!!", elitist "overtone" would and is never to be found on anyone's web site that is worth reading and bears any reputation or repsect. Why? Because people who really love Jesus don't make fun of other people or real situations like that, especially people that they have labored with over a long period of time and still love (not "claim" to love). They really care from the heart and in most cases are shedding real tears.<< Please understand, I get a little confused by some of the things you say, and I'm just trying to clear it up. Would someone who considers themselves to have left a true body of believers (you) mock people who have left that body and are obviously hurt by calling them names like "ultimatetruthtweeker" and "danrepentrepent"? Wouldn't someone who truly loves Jesus cry real tears over their hurting brothers and sisters instead of reminding them of sins, real or imagined? Are you really loving Jesus when you make up these names for people? Are you shedding real tears for people who have been hurt in Indy or Columbus? Also, I have seen the page on the allathisfeet site that mocks anonymous posters (guy w/chainsaw and bag over head). Is that representative of how much Indy/Columbus cares for people? Like I said, I'm just confused... Jen   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:39 am:        Well said speakingtruth. The testimony page has a name now, thanks to ChrisO, by her own courageous request. http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/Testimonials.aspx   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 187 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:12 pm:        ChrisO, another question, if I may. You said: >>The life in the church there is really simply fantastic. Not without "problems" or "perfect" as I've already pointed out many times, but certainly fantastic in they way they deal with problems and with the overall, daily quality of life. In sharp, sharp contrast I might add to their accusers...):<< I don't know if this has been asked before and answered, so please forgive me if it has. If you are not there now, and haven't been for some time (how long has it been?), why is it that you often, if not always, speak in the present tense about how things "are" there as opposed to how they "were" when you were there? What if things have seriously degenerated since your sojourn there? Or what if perhaps you just saw things the way you wanted to, or even the way they wanted you to? I can certainly understand the need for more of Jesus when what you see in the mainstream is a watered down version of what we read in our Bibles. I think a lot of us struggle with that. We want what is real and true so badly that maybe sometimes we don't see the deceptions out there? Could that possibly be your experience, Chris? Also, what do you know of the daily lives of the "accusers"? Who's to say their lives are not much richer in Christ for having left Indy or Columbus? (For example, the lady who is "better off now than she was".) Also, as far as the way they are dealing with problems, I am sure that they are doing the best they can, and are seeking the Lord. Seems to me it would be hard to come out and say your name after everyone saw what happened to Denny before we even knew this board existed. No one would want to be slandered in such a way. Jen PS - I just want to say again to you that we continue to pray for you...   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.143.190 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:27 pm:        AGAIN! ChrisO simply ignores the #1 simple question asked by those who love him and want to know God: Have you been in contact with Mike Peters this last month??? I may be wrong, but I have given this thing a lot of patience. I finally must break down and say what my gut is screaming... FISHY! FISHY! I just sense that Mike Peters has anger and venom spewing from his mouth through himself or his "ATTACK DOG" Chris O. (Lord, correct me if I am wrong!) Nearly 300 people have viewed the latest testimony so far. I soon, since my life might be in danger anyhow, may post my own testimony with my own name and address and family's name and history of sins and specific involvement in Indiana, and whatever other naked truth you may want from me. I have no reason not to share who I am. I have no fear of what Mike Peters or his cronies may do to me. I have never had a fear... I just could have never imagined it being necessary for things to come to this. But PERHAPS things need to come to this to either encourage other X-members to show their faith in God by "coming out" or simply to provide more validity to the words of those giving testimony. I understand many X-members are overcoming "brain washing" and they also have families to protect as do I., However, I have been moved in recent days to consider that TRUE FAITH in the Lord outweighs any of the "internet protection" that we are trying to maintain by remaining anonymous. I applaud those who have had enough courage to "come out" and share their testimony even though they have had to suffer the "wrath of mike." I have nothing to hide, and although I think it is "foolish" to put out personal information on the internet, I WILL be a fool for God so that others may come to know the sad secrets behind the power plays messing with people's lives through the (and you're going to love this one Mike).. through the 'MIS-MINISTRY' OF Mike Peters. do you doubt for a second that Mike Peters who has posted here personally hasn't kept a KEEN eye on every little thing that has gone down? FOR SHAME. for shame. Lord, Please, show the captives your grace. Strengthen them to step forward. Tear down the walls of your enemy. Lord, Save Mike Peters himself and bring him to repentance for the evil works he has been a tool for.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.143.190 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:43 pm:        interesting "sub post" My name is Tim Szazynski I was a part of the Indy group for 18yrs along with my wife Cathy. All my children (6) where born and raised there for their entire lives. That’s all they have known till now. On a Sat. evening in August of 2005 while sitting on my deck a man named Bryan Bearden approached me and told me of a meeting with himself and three others. He did not disclose their names (and they remain anonymous to this day) He told me that it was decided that I leave my house, job and the state of Indiana. I appealed to move to Plainfield IN and keep my well paying job with a local builder called the Estridge Group, but this was denied. When asked the reason for my excommunication I was told it was due to unfruitfulness and that a tree that bears no fruit must be cut down if it's had ample opportunity to produce a yield. Legally I was not obligated to hand over my house but for the sake of my wife’s sanity I submitted to the verdict. Me and my family of 7 others were on the street in less than a week. We currently reside in Elizabethtown KY. I now sense a freedom and joy that is full of glory and inexpressible. Christ is nearer, dearer and more real to me now then at any other time during my 25yrs as a Christian. I'm sure there is some residual negative stuff remaining in me, but I don't believe I have massive scaring. I was in it, but never of it, due to God's kindness toward me. I choose to view what happened like Joseph did, being fully assured that God has worked this all out for my good. Men are responsible, but He was Sovereign in it all. It is to "Him" that I go, for interpretation and the purpose regarding my ordeal. I am content to have it so. If I can be of any help to anybody you may email me at anordinaryguy@bbtel.com or call me if you like at 270-268-1322. If you do contact me however, be willing to tell me your name, if you can't, don't expect correspondence, unless you have a legitimate reason. I've dealt in secrecy for almost 2 decades. That season is over, everything must be done in the light with no obscure shadows of secrecy. Regarding my motive: it is--- Christ, and the increase of the fame of His name and purification of the testimony regarding Him. I get no thrill in exposing another’s weaknesses or faults, especially when believers are involved. But sometimes the word of God must be unsheathed for correction and rebuke as well as instruction and training. (2Tim 3:16) Remember it has two edges. Paul thought it necessary to write a scathing letter to the Galatians out of his jealously over gospel purity. I believe that my past 20yrs of observing subtle and insidious legalism has been unto the furtherance of this same gospel. To God be all the glory, honor and praise. He is worth any sacrifice or suffering. In fact the reimbursement of joy and grace that we receive when we obey Him, more than compensates for any sacrifices made. Till the word "sacrifice" loses its meaning. Work is no longer work, duty is delight, giving begets receiving, death begets Life. If more of Christ is known, if we are more conformed to His image, then may we appraise as a believer should, and count it all as--------- GAIN! Just an ordinary brother, tim http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/23326.html?1155187160   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.143.190 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:49 pm:        interesting "sub post" My name is Tim Szazynski I was a part of the Indy group for 18yrs along with my wife Cathy. All my children (6) where born and raised there for their entire lives. That’s all they have known till now. On a Sat. evening in August of 2005 while sitting on my deck a man named Bryan Bearden approached me and told me of a meeting with himself and three others. He did not disclose their names (and they remain anonymous to this day) He told me that it was decided that I leave my house, job and the state of Indiana. I appealed to move to Plainfield IN and keep my well paying job with a local builder called the Estridge Group, but this was denied. When asked the reason for my excommunication I was told it was due to unfruitfulness and that a tree that bears no fruit must be cut down if it's had ample opportunity to produce a yield. Legally I was not obligated to hand over my house but for the sake of my wife’s sanity I submitted to the verdict. Me and my family of 7 others were on the street in less than a week. We currently reside in Elizabethtown KY. I now sense a freedom and joy that is full of glory and inexpressible. Christ is nearer, dearer and more real to me now then at any other time during my 25yrs as a Christian. I'm sure there is some residual negative stuff remaining in me, but I don't believe I have massive scaring. I was in it, but never of it, due to God's kindness toward me. I choose to view what happened like Joseph did, being fully assured that God has worked this all out for my good. Men are responsible, but He was Sovereign in it all. It is to "Him" that I go, for interpretation and the purpose regarding my ordeal. I am content to have it so. If I can be of any help to anybody you may email me at anordinaryguy@bbtel.com or call me if you like at 270-268-1322. If you do contact me however, be willing to tell me your name, if you can't, don't expect correspondence, unless you have a legitimate reason. I've dealt in secrecy for almost 2 decades. That season is over, everything must be done in the light with no obscure shadows of secrecy. Regarding my motive: it is--- Christ, and the increase of the fame of His name and purification of the testimony regarding Him. I get no thrill in exposing another’s weaknesses or faults, especially when believers are involved. But sometimes the word of God must be unsheathed for correction and rebuke as well as instruction and training. (2Tim 3:16) Remember it has two edges. Paul thought it necessary to write a scathing letter to the Galatians out of his jealously over gospel purity. I believe that my past 20yrs of observing subtle and insidious legalism has been unto the furtherance of this same gospel. To God be all the glory, honor and praise. He is worth any sacrifice or suffering. In fact the reimbursement of joy and grace that we receive when we obey Him, more than compensates for any sacrifices made. Till the word "sacrifice" loses its meaning. Work is no longer work, duty is delight, giving begets receiving, death begets Life. If more of Christ is known, if we are more conformed to His image, then may we appraise as a believer should, and count it all as--------- GAIN! Just an ordinary brother, tim http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/23326.html?1155187160   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:49 pm:        GottaPost: OK, I'll respond to the "testimonial" Tim left... Why don't we have Cathy, Tim's wife post, so we can get the other side of the story, and then let everyone decide? For example, the reality is that Tim never bought a house in Indianapolis but rather a number of the Saints there spent over $30,000 on Tim and his family, and bought that house, and then paid off the second mortgage with all of Tim's credit card debt on it, too. And even recently Tim wants to divorce Cathy against her will, and has found someone to concoct a doctrine that "for any cause" (such as not agreeing with his doctrines) Tim can divorce Cathy and abandon all those children. Does anyone on this board agree that "God hates divorce" and someone who wants divorce and a doctrine to allow it because his wife doesn't agree with his character or doctrines -- there's something seriously shady about that? These facts seem to fly directly in the face of the accusations here no less since it's not Indy (I've said this over and over and over again) that's doing this nor precipitated this. So, maybe before passing judgment on others based on spurious and questionable testimony by those with motives that are not clear, maybe if we're honest we'll want to hear more -- from the wives themselves -- on how they are treated at home and the personal lives and practices and character and treatment they get in their homes. What if there is more to this than what we're being told here? (Something I keep asking but no one seems to think is "valid.") Wouldn't you feel badly for accusing or listening to accusations, if the husbands are abusive and controlling and of questionable character in their homes, with secret lives? I also understand, in addition there are letters available from Tim's sibling that is very revealing also. Why don't we get all the information on here so everyone can decide fairly, if they really want to know? That just makes sense, right? Now, I don't know if Cathy would want to do something like that (I've known Cathy and Tim as well for about 16 of those 18 years -- seen his oldest children immediately after birth while living in another state at the time) since contrary to popular opinion (accusations) running rampant on this board, no one I know encourages that sort of thing. I don't even how to get ahold of her, but if anyone wanted to hear the whole story in order to ascertain what is truth and what is sour grapes for being disfellowshipped after the "one more year" had long expired, probably those who lived around him for 18 years, as well as his wife and children could probably lend some light to the topic. If anyone really wanted to know. What do you think? Again, I don't know if she even would if she could be contacted somehow, since she would probably not want to expose her husband to public scrutiny no matter what he's done, but if he is on here telling stories that seem shy of the truth by a lot, perhaps she will want to tell the other side? So, as GottaPost correctly states, it seems like this kind of thing is "all too common." I've detailed the reasons why before, and here we go again, I'm very, very sad to say. -ChrisO   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 188 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:06 pm:        Ummm... Chris, are you ignoring me? Just wanted to know... Jen   gottapost Junior Member Username: gottapost Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 210.170.200.172 Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:55 pm:        Thanks for the info on Tim S, ChrisO. Your expert opinions are invaluable to this forum. For a former member disfellowshipped from CII who's not in contact with CII, you sure know a lot of details about other excommunicated members. Based on your clarifications, it sounds like Tim was steeped in unrepeated sin. He must of committed adultery since that's the example for excommunication in the New Testament. Since Tim is obvious a liar, it didn't happen as he described. Someone probably went to him alone (as you and others have said must be done), then took one or two others and he didn’t listen, then they told it to the church, and despite all that, Tim still didn't repent of his wickeness. No doubt during that gathering of all the church, Tim spat in the face of God's grace turned his back on all those relationships he had with people since before ChrisO was there, and they handed him over to satan for the destruction of his flesh. Through the lens of your clarification, ChrisO, I think we can all see how blind Tim is for thinking he's closer to Jesus now. Since ChrisO mentioned Tim's wife's name, I trust she's the model Christian wife who is standing by Tim, fulfilling her marital vows, and working through that sin (whatever it was/is) with Tim to help turn him from eternal damnation that the entire church has warned him about. No doubt she's unconditionally loving him on a daily basis, cherishing her husband, rendering her wifely duties to love and submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ and teaching their children to love and honor their father so they may live a long prosperous life. It's nice to know the CII members, like you ChrisO, are so loving toward other former members as clarify how Tim had card debts which you say CII helped him pay, according to you ChrisO. By the way, how do you know all this, ChrisO? Since you know all these details about how Tim S was disfellowshipped and felt free to clarify them, please clarify why you were disfellowshiped (on one page, please) and when you were allowed back in? And ChrisO, thanks for keeping your post between 5 and 10,000 words.   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:47 am:        ChrisO(?), Your testimony apparently stands by itself. You have no one in stated authority from the Indy group or other affiliates giving you any place to do what you are doing on this Factnet. Is this not true? Remember your own words from the start: "MIKE PETERS DID ***NOT*** ASK ME TO POST THIS nor did anyone in ANY of the cities mentioned in this thread. This is COMPLETELY 100% on my own. Mike did NOT ask me to do this. Mike did not see one single word here before I wrote it or posted it. Mike did not give his prior "approval" or "dissent" before making this post. Nor did anyone else from anywhere else." I don't recall your giving your actual full name in any post yet. Did I miss it or forget? What gives you the place to judge other "anonymous" people? Did God grant you this special privilege? We know very few specifics about you except that you have a lot of wind and smoke and that you are very evasive when people ask you harmless questions. If fact you paint up these questions (and people who ask them) as if they were some Nazi interrogators. Let's get real Chris (or whoever you really are), it is obvious to ALL (whether you like it or not) that this is either utter paranoia or smoke (period). You may act like no one has asked you simple, easy, harmless questions. Yet they are extremely relevant questions to the topic discussed here. I'm sorry to have to make it so clear to you but it's most likely already clear to nearly everyone else. Did you notice how alone you are on this thread? Here we are again, I know you may not believe this but I am feeling for you at this time as I see your lonely posts. I really mean this. This is not just sarcasm nor is it hypocritical love. YOU SOUL CONCERNS ME! It seems there is no one in the Indy church (or affiliates) that believes what you are doing now is right or, it seems, they would have been here again by now as well. Doesn't that make sense? Sorry, but you must be really missing it with the righteousness of "The church Of Indianapolis". I think you may need to contact Mike Peters to be sure about what you are doing here. Or, get before God and turn from this. I AM VERY SERIOUS AND HOPE YOU CONSIDER THIS! Don't you have any fear of God as "they" teach it in there? As you said on your 31'st post: "WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE SCARED TO BE ALONE???!!!!!!" It seems you are out there all on your own and could be sinning severely in what you are doing here. Are you sure you are "in the Spirit" as you go on here without the guidance, direction, and correction of the rest of the Body? Remember you must be in the light and under constant exhortation of the church to be right with God. Isn't this what "they" teach? How can you say you respect them so much but not follow their teaching? Remember what you said otherwise there: "We are usually alone or as alone or in the dark or as "secretive" as we can possibly get. In fact, the more ATROCIOUS and HEINIOUS the crime or sin, generally, the MORE ALONE or secret one is or has to be in order to complete it generally. The real question SHOULD NOT BE, "Why are people there never alone?"" Do you not even care what the church you respect above all thinks about what you are saying of them or that you are speaking of them at all? Do you assume they (the present members) are so pleased with you as they are not giving any indication of approval or any further input?   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 190 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:50 am:        I've been trying to do the math on this Chris. I'll admit I did only ok with math in school. You said the following on your first post on June 8 just 2 days after Mike's last post: "Of the 20 or so years folks under dispute here have made their homes in Indianapolis, I and my family have lived there for a total of about 4 years." And on your second post: "I don't live there NOW and I haven't lived there or been there for over 3 years. Nor do I live in ANY of the other places mentioned in this thread." Now if I was there at the turn of 1991 and1992 (over 13 years ago) for only a few weeks and you lived there at that time within a frame of 4 years and you say you haven't been there for somewhere just over 3 years then your info here is lacking. If you don't think this is a Nazi type question then could you explain this to me, please? I'm just trying to put pieces together as I'm re-reading some posts. Thanks! It seems by the practice of your character here that we can expect an attack on me soon after this. We understand this is just the nature of the beast. So go ahead, we can take it with the help of God’s Grace. You can only do what you feel you must. Let's see what the "spirit" gives you this time. Or is it time to be quiet for a while? Thanks again, Dennis Elslager Proverbs 12:19 "The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment."   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:13 am:        My only response to you Chris is I encourage you to get hold of Cathy and persuade her to put her testimony on factnet. (Give me your email and I'll send you her cell phone number.) In fact try to get all the wives of all the men who have been excommunicated to post. So everyone can hear the identical testimony from different wives. I have spoken to many brothers outside the camp recently and the treatment they receive matches mine down to the tones of voice, facial expressions and vocabulary. I tell you it's scary. But Chris you are forgetting a major obstacle that inhibits our wives making a post. They don't have free internet access, remember. There is no way that this site is on the proxy. It will never get the approval from Dave Whitefield or Chris Zachidny. In fact nothing negative or questioning ever gets within anyone’s ear or eyeshot. No pages, no emails, no internet freedom. No access to family, old friends, books or any media that would cause gears to turn the wrong direction. Any person with their mental transmission engaged are goners. This is my testimony as an eyewitness of 18yrs. The last 8 within 50yards of Mikes very house. Let it be known that I am ashamed that I was a coward during most of those 18yrs. I was comfortable, I saw enough good to significantly dull me to sleep. In my mind I questioned many things but due to fear of being thrown out of the synagogue I did not confess openly. Chris be aware for I no longer have fear of loss. Because all i once held dear is already gone. Christ and the believers he Has graciously brought into my life is all I have. If you can dig up the foulest smut to pin on me, I will add to it, and tell of the things you know nothing about. The judge of the Universe has declared me righteous based on the work of His Son. Who are you to condemn. You can try, but nothing will stick, Teflon coats my heart and mind in Christ. For anyone out there who is truly a born from above child, you are free! Free to live and experience life as it was meant to be lived. Full of vigor, joy, yes even pleasure and delight. But don't look "at" the gifts that God grants look "through" them to the giver and the greatest gift of all---- Himself. Then we won't run the risk of being idolaters and God will get all the glory as we esteem Him as our most cherished treasure! Just a brother and content to be so, tim   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:27 am:        My only response to you Chris is I encourage you to get hold of Cathy and persuade her to put her testimony on factnet. (Give me your email and I'll send you her cell phone number.) In fact try to get all the wives of all the men who have been excommunicated to post. So everyone can hear the identical testimony from different wives. I have spoken to many brothers outside the camp recently and the treatment they receive matches mine down to the tones of voice, facial expressions and vocabulary. I tell you it's scary. But Chris you are forgetting a major obstacle that inhibits our wives making a post. They don't have free internet access, remember. There is no way that this site is on the proxy. It will never get the approval from Dave Whitefield or Chris Zachidny. In fact nothing negative or questioning ever gets within anyone’s ear or eyeshot. No pages, no emails, no internet freedom. No access to family, old friends, books or any media that would cause gears to turn the wrong direction. Any person with their mental transmission engaged are goners. This is my testimony as an eyewitness of 18yrs. The last 8 within 50yards of Mikes very house. Let it be known that I am ashamed that I was a coward during most of those 18yrs. I was comfortable, I saw enough good to significantly dull me to sleep. In my mind I questioned many things but due to fear of being thrown out of the synagogue I did not confess openly. Chris be aware for I no longer have fear of loss. Because all i once held dear is already gone. Christ and the believers he Has graciously brought into my life is all I have. If you can dig up the foulest smut to pin on me, I will add to it, and tell of the things you know nothing about. The judge of the Universe has declared me righteous based on the work of His Son. Who are you to condemn. You can try, but nothing will stick, Teflon coats my heart and mind in Christ. For anyone out there who is truly a born from above child, you are free! Free to live and experience life as it was meant to be lived. Full of vigor, joy, yes even pleasure and delight. But don't look "at" the gifts that God grants look "through" them to the giver and the greatest gift of all---- Himself. Then we won't run the risk of being idolaters and God will get all the glory as we esteem Him as our most cherished treasure! Just a brother and content to be so, tim   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:39 am:        To Chris Olive, Chris I encourage you to get a hold of Cathy and persuade her to put her testimony on factnet. (Give me your email and I'll send you her cell phone number.) In fact try to get all the wives of all the men who have been excommunicated to post. So everyone can hear the identical testimony from different wives. I have spoken to many brothers outside the camp recently and the treatment they receive matches mine down to the tones of voice, facial expressions and vocabulary. I tell you it's scary. But Chris you are forgetting a major obstacle that inhibits our wives making a post. They don't have free internet access, remember. There is no way that this site is on the proxy. It will never get the needed approval of Dave Whitefield or Chris Zachidny. In fact nothing negative or questioning ever gets within anyone’s ear or eyeshot. No pages, no emails, no internet freedom. No access to family, old friends, books or any media that would cause gears to turn the wrong direction. Any person with their mental transmission engaged are goners. This is my testimony as an eyewitness of 18yrs. The last 8 within 50yards of Mikes very house. Let it be known that I am ashamed that I was a coward during most of those 18yrs. I was comfortable, I saw enough good to significantly dull me to sleep. In my mind I questioned many things but due to fear of being thrown out of the synagogue I did not confess openly. Chris be aware for I no longer have fear of loss. Because all i once held dear is already gone. Christ and the believers he Has graciously brought into my life is all I have. If you can dig up the foulest smut to pin on me, I will add to it, and tell of the things you know nothing about. The judge of the Universe has declared me righteous based on the work of His Son. Who are you to condemn. You can try, but nothing will stick, Teflon coats my heart and mind in Christ. For anyone out there who is truly a born from above child, you are free! Free to live and experience life as it was meant to be lived. Full of vigor, joy, yes even pleasure and delight. But don't look "at" the gifts that God grants look "through" them to the giver and the greatest gift of all---- Himself. Then we won't run the risk of being idolaters and God will get all the glory as we esteem Him as our most cherished treasure! Just a brother and content to be so, tim   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:36 am:        I'm sorry, but i'm not sleepy yet. I just have to say something to address this sentence. "For example, the reality is that Tim never bought a house in Indianapolis but rather a number of the Saints there spent over $30,000 on Tim and his family, and bought that house, and then paid off the second mortgage with all of Tim's credit card debt on it, too." Fact: I lived at 6070 Long Meadow Ct. Indianapolis, IN 46268 The mortgage was in my name with National City Bank. I paid on it for 8 years. During that time i asked my brother David Szazynski 3 maybe 4 times to help me out with a couple hundred bucks for my mortagage or car payment (can't recall which). Yes it's true i made many foolish purchasing decisions over the years which contributed to a sizable debt. Being a blue collar worker with 6 children also was a factor. But the $30,000 figure seems way off the charts in my memory. By the way if your wondering if Chris has contact with Mike, there is no question for that $30,000 dollars is the same number Mike has used to hold over me. One last word to all of us. When we give lets remind each other to not let our right hand be conscious of the left. If we do then men may be impressed and applaud us but it's not worth it for that will be the extent of our reward. So lets not give as to be seen of men, but lay up treasures in heaven. Which is far better. tim   noachmattathius Junior Member Username: noachmattathius Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 67.165.202.96 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:23 am:        I still see you guys are trying to expose garbage. Where is your wife Tim? Does she live with you? I have seen the love of Christ put into action by Mike. Its too bad you got kicked out but others feel they are living a God centered life. I have yet to find, in all the reading I have done, anything contrary to the word. So who are you to judge another mans servant. You guys are bitter because you were rejected. Instead of repenting you are crusading against mike. Its sad your bitterness shines right through.   mike_indpls New member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 7:28 am:        Well, no one with a life has time to read all of the above, so I won't try. But, Tim, actually you KNOW that you never paid a penny to acquire that house (the downpayment was paid totally by others), and the number over the years that you were given for mortgage, food, transportation, clothing for your children... is well over $60,000 in reality. Divide it by the number of years, and your family would easily come up with that much during your time here before we disfellowshipped you for your many years of undealt with sin. I can post here the letters begging you to care for your family and love them, and show the personality of Jesus to them. "If (Jesus) would be lifted up" in your life, you would have DRAWN them, rather than what you have done in the privacy of your own home to them all of these years. I have personally begged you to just trust Father and believe He has a Purpose for you, and love and care for youf family, rather than try to get revenge for being asked to leave.   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 7:57 am:        Just as an overview, and for those who aren't on a "Salem Witchhunt" -- when you "do church" in a way that you try to help homosexuals (there are those here set Free indeed from this terrible addiction) and the mentally ill (there are at least three posting here who have this in their family and life), and when a spouse calls us and says, "My marriage partner weas just caught in sin with another, and i told them that unless you let us move there to help us i would leave" (and there are several such situations, including one posting here), and are contacted daily by those abandoned by homosexual spouses, those with wild-eyed religious agendas and ambitions, those with alcohol and drug vices, those abused by control-freak spouses, those who can't hold a job, -- and we try to help such as these... Well, you don't work in the ox barn without having a mess to deal with. It's SO much easier to build a building, put up a yard sign, take out a yellow page ad, have a service or two, give a speech and sing, add a counseling appt or two, and call it a day. But, Jesus got literally murdered for suggesting that's not what it's about. So we go on. And, if we're sooooo bad explain why we don't even allow 1000 people a year who ask to move here and visit or get on any band wagon or fad, other than loving Jesus where they are at, we GIVE and don't take (as illustrated above), and we don't make any attempt to "get anyone to stay" -- in fact the contrary (obviously) since half the people on here are from 20 years of those we've had to ask to leave for various reasons. But if you aren't trying to "get" people to come, make no attempt to "keep" them, and care for and love and sacrifice for them and their children and their marriages while they are here, "don't make no sense" the name calling as if we're trying to get something for ourselves. That breaks every "rule" of "dangerous groups" when they don't want your money and don't try to "get" or "keep" you.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:01 am:        So yes MikeR. These have all been examples of how we can find out more and more about Indy and Mike P by sharing and thinking together. "Give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves." If you read my earlier posts, I was obviously sitting on the fence for the longest time trying to give Indy the Benefit of the Doubt. Looking back, it wasn't really any of the "he said/she said" stuff on here that helped me to see the truth about Indy. nope, it was more about just paying attention to their characters, tactics, what they themselves admit, what they refuse to deny, their "group-think" behavior. Every post or two from them reveal just a little bit more of the puzzle. Of course, although I don't take any one's story here as scripture, the stories do make things "click" for me in my own experience. In other words, I was able to reflect back to my time with them and finally "see" what they were doing. I can't think of a great example right now, but i'm sure you all know what i mean... but i'll try. for example, I didn't know what to make of the angry man who I personally watched severely scold his wife in the kitchen--accusing her of "Idle chatter" on the phone and refusing to listen to any of her excuses." But after getting a good sense here for the whole hierarchy and control issues, that incident has a sad but understandable context. CHRISo UPDATE: Chris is currently ignoring me because he says that I do not deserve to be addressed. I think it is because he has likely been in close contact with Mike Peters and is scared to death to see his testimony ruined (yes again) by being found out as Mike's attack dog. Please help me get ChrisO off the hook. Please encourage him just to honestly tell us that he has not been in contact with Mike Peters in the last month or so. GottaPost, i appreciated your post. You kept it interesting while pointing out so many "flaws" with ChrisO and Indy-Land.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:02 am:        So yes MikeR. These have all been examples of how we can find out more and more about Indy and Mike P by sharing and thinking together. "Give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves." If you read my earlier posts, I was obviously sitting on the fence for the longest time trying to give Indy the Benefit of the Doubt. Looking back, it wasn't really any of the "he said/she said" stuff on here that helped me to see the truth about Indy. nope, it was more about just paying attention to their characters, tactics, what they themselves admit, what they refuse to deny, their "group-think" behavior. Every post or two from them reveal just a little bit more of the puzzle. Of course, although I don't take any one's story here as scripture, the stories do make things "click" for me in my own experience. In other words, I was able to reflect back to my time with them and finally "see" what they were doing. I can't think of a great example right now, but i'm sure you all know what i mean... but i'll try. for example, I didn't know what to make of the angry man who I personally watched severely scold his wife in the kitchen--accusing her of "Idle chatter" on the phone and refusing to listen to any of her excuses." But after getting a good sense here for the whole hierarchy and control issues, that incident has a sad but understandable context. CHRISo UPDATE: Chris is currently ignoring me because he says that I do not deserve to be addressed. I think it is because he has likely been in close contact with Mike Peters and is scared to death to see his testimony ruined (yes again) by being found out as Mike's attack dog. Please help me get ChrisO off the hook. Please encourage him just to honestly tell us that he has not been in contact with Mike Peters in the last month or so. GottaPost, i appreciated your post. You kept it interesting while pointing out so many "flaws" with ChrisO and Indy-Land.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 67 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:17 am:        Mike P., Just to be intellectually honest, wouldn't you have to say that the fear of having to get kicked out of your own house, away from your own family, as Tim puts it, "Because all I once held dear is already gone," could be considered as maybe just a little tiny "attempt to keep them"?? When you get people in to Indy, cut off from their old friends, family, church, coworkers etc. and surround them with 100 mothers brothers sisters children etc., wouldn't you have to admit that it's maybe just a little hard to think about ever losing that? I know that you think you have the right to do that to people because your group is the true body of Christ, and you can phrase it as the divine disfellowshiping or whatever. But please at least admit that your group functions as a huge "attempt to keep them." Admit this so that you can maintain some level of logical integrity. Next week, we'll talk about why sending people boxes of 30+books/tapes and personally emailing thousands and thousands of seekers is not an "attempt to get them." Thank you   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:31 am:        MAYBE just MAYBE, Mike P., You don't allow 1000 people a year move there because only a small percentage of "seekers" would not be considered trouble makers. You can only allow people who are going to "Take it" and who will become a cult-member. This is the same kind of person--for whatever reason--who joins cults. You cannot allow people who think for themselves, so that cuts out a huge percentage. You cannot allow people who ask questions, so there goes another chunk. You cannot allow fathers who want to remain the head of their families, so goodbye dads. You cannot allow people who do not follow orders blindly, so maybe you are left with a small but big enough percentage to carry on. ya think?   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:34 am:        no offense to members or xmembers who got duped. I myself did as well. I have to admit that I was/am the type of person who is susceptible   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:42 am:        Isn't it possible, too, if anyone is "logical" as you say, that since so much of what is on this thread are total lies (there were at lesst three families in the last week, even, who visited relatives out of state or in the hospital, and those are only ones I'm aware of. Is anyone going to apologize for the previous lying going on? Probably not.) And what if a "head of household" is a homosexual? Should the wife and children embrace his doctrine and accept his lifestyone under your definition of "submission"? What if they were Hindu, or Muslim, or simply domineering at hateful and belittling of their children and wife, day in and day out? Is there NO relief in your doctrine for asking a person to leave if they will not allow Jesus to soften them? WHO exactly "tore up the family" - -the one who buys a health club membership for himself while not providing food for his children, or those who oppose such "worse than an infidel" behavior, just as a hypothetical "for instance"? Does Everyone who posts here "automatically" get to be "right" and "innocent" -- even if their lives include porn habits or such child abuse that the police had to be involved, or homosexuality, or the other things folks on here were asked to leave for, without naming names. All of this cloak and dagger "accuse them because they won't fight back and if they expose us, we'll call them names for that too" is just dishonest and weird, and a waste of lives that could be instead focused on Jesus.   gottapost Junior Member Username: gottapost Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.19.182.23 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:55 am:        This message has been removed by FactNet per the request of the original poster, "gottapost". (Message edited by dannydawg5 on August 14, 2006)   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:20 am:        Mike, I will go down stairs right now and ask Cathy if we need any food. My pantry and frig have plenty, I recently made a large Sam's run and stocked up pretty good. In fact your welcomed to compare my “food supplies” Dave’s Dave's? Does Laurel shop for family food at all? Is she still over your house 5-7 nights a week, while Dave eats cheeze-wiz on wheat- thins at home? Yes I belong to E-town Fitness, the cost is 39.00 a month, conveniently located across the street from the Cracker Barrel where I work. I believe bodily exercise has some value, plus it helps drain energy. Cathy hasn't slept with me for many months, but I guess that’s nothing compared to years that i know other brothers currently endure. By the way how much are dues at Broadmore Country Club running these days. ? Around that magical $30,000 number is my guess? Hit them long and straight Mike and please tell my brother Dave and Andy Roberts I said hello. tim   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:38 am:        Not that it's any of your business, of course, since you have already had a fairly lengthy exposure by someone who lived next door to you for a long time, and you were even one who had a police detective in your house because of "issues" with children -- but here you go: I have an Engineering degree from a prestigious university, have held upper level management positions with high pay and P&L responsibility for $30mil, have worked in City Hall, and managed a very profitable restuarant, consulted for 6 Fortune 200 companies, and have traded commodities for 15 years, and more. Many of the men here have seriously responsible positions at very well-known corporations. No big deal, but you are being cynical and misrepresentative that I'll answer this time, for reasons that elude me. Nevertheless, I have less than $1000 in any account or asset to my name, since, as anyone who knows me will attest, I give away all I can and have accumulated nothing for myself. How about you? Want to post your resume and 401K assets, so we can compare lifestyles? Who is unaccountable, when you won't even put yourself under the same scutiny or honesty that others offer. If I play golf some, are you so legalistic to suggest that christians shouldn't spend time with brothers, or reach out to unBelievers this way? I never ever play golf in any self-indulgent way, or unaccountably. Haven't even kept score but three times since last October. Even the minivan you refer to I gave away as a gift to Tim Sz two days before he was asked to leave, which he was happy to take. I know you won't apologize, because the "don't confuse me with the facts" process you and a handful of others have taken here is fairly evident. Tim brought himself here, and the reality of the $60,000 plus gifts given to him would be confirmed by his family and every neighbor he has had for 18 years. And, my wife has been with me on many trips, including out of the country, and there are no trips I have ever taken with anyone anywhere that were not with the full knowledge and blessing and protection of hundreds of people -- including my wife who is deeply hurt at the vulgar nature of your accusations of her, and her family. On average, there are 4-6 and as many as 80 people together on any trips, never unaccountable, and that probably can't be said by even one of the "authors" or "speakers" or other heroes of your religious experiences. Why not question them?   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:54 am:        Tim, funny I quit Broadmoor after last year, and it was FREE to join (they waived the fee totally, though Doug had to pay $1500). If you had asked, I would have told you. And I was ASKED by brothers to be there, so I did, for a time. Why are you trying to take the 18 years of love and kindness you were shown and NOW act like you didn't want to be here? As I said to you personally, why not show Jesus' love and character to your family and get on with your life instead of what you've been doing? You have been dearly loved, and the lack of gratitude for the 18 years of kindnesses and generosity to you is not God's way. God is Sovereign. Relax.   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:28 am:        And "gottapast" I reread more carefully your VERY vulgar posting and heinous accusations, and disgusting remarks. You are very wrong -- and your inveighs are both immoral and perhaps illegal, not to mention ruthless and careless filth with full intentions of hurting my wife. I have no secratary and no unaccountable time. You have more unaccounted for time in a week than I do in a year, if you work outside of your home, or are taking busines trips these days, You are very shameful. You are crossing a very dangerous line here. Your "identity" has been protected here, and I have willingly offered mine up. And you throw such disgusting things at my wife and family? I don't think you should now remove the post -- leave them so folks can see your spiritual credibility level. Then they can read and listen to "test the spirits" on the AllAtHisFeet.com site, and make their own decisions. I think that's good. And since there is nothing to build and nothing to protect here, and never has been -- whatever anyone decides is great.   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:01 pm:        This message has been removed by FactNet per the request of the original poster, "danrepent". (Message edited by dannydawg5 on December 09, 2006)   danrepent New member Username: danrepent Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:02 pm:        This message has been removed by FactNet per the request of the original poster, "danrepent". (Message edited by dannydawg5 on December 09, 2006)   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 191 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:13 pm:        I am a little confused by some of this. As everyone knows, Denny wasn't there long enough to see some of this husband/wife stuff that is being talked about here. And we weren't married then, so we have no firsthand experience of the way they deal with marriages. My confusion is in regard to scripture. If this is a new testament group, why would they ever encourage a division in a family? Why would wives ever be encouraged to withhold affection from husbands? I Cor. 7:2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I understand that if there is a situation where the husband is physically abusing a wife or their children, that a separation for a time may be in order. But with so many families being broken up, is it logical to assume that is what is happening in all these cases? The law of averages wouldn't bear that out. And since when is it ok for women to be more bound to the spiritual leader than to their own husbands? Please pardon me for saying so, but I am deeply devoted to my husband, and the only other Person to Whom I am more devoted is Christ. And according to my Bible, that is as it should be. Jen PS- Mike Peters, I don't think you like me. You haven't turned me against Denny with your slanderous lies and you never could. I'm not being mean by saying this, just quite honest. (Message edited by speakingtruth on August 11, 2006)   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:16 pm:        Interesting. MikeP stands accused of spending much time alone with younger women from the church (may of whom are wives). In his own defense he didn't even deny it. All he says is that all of his trips have the "full knowledge and blessing and protection of hundreds of people" Don't you think it would be hard to withhold your blessing from Mike if you were a cult member and secretly afraid that if Mike saw you as a "nail sticking up" that he might hammer you down next? I think that if ALL THE FACTS were out about what goes on in Indy, then The FBI would shut down this VERY ILLEGAL prison. PEOPLE WAKE UP! WHO IS THE ACCUSER? WHO ACCUSES YOU BEFORE GOD DAY AND NIGHT? WHO HOLDS YOUR SINS OVER YOUR HEAD? WHO IS YOUR ENEMY? WHO KEEPS COMING ON THIS SITE BRINGING UP HIS RECORDED SINS AGAINST YOU? WHO REFUSES TO OFFER FORGIVENESS? WHO KEEPS A RECORD AND USES IT AGAINST YOU? WHO ACCUSES YOU OF YOUR SPECIFIC SIN TO GAIN POWER OVER YOU? IS IT MIKE OR SATAN? I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE ANY MORE! THEY SEEM TO BE DOING THE SAME THING ALL THE TIME. It's the oldest game in the book. Satan gains power over people by holding their sins against them, and people believe it because it is true--TRUE IF you don't know what Christ did for you on that cross. PEOPLE, you need to know grace. you need to know Jesus, you need to know forgiveness 100% forgiveness!!! YOUR SINS ARE AS FAR AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST! and MIke Peters or anyone cannot hold them against you. To deny the forgiveness of Christ is to deny Christ! Did He die in vain? Do not worry. I am the saddest person of all to find out that Indy is not it! I really wanted it to be! I thought it could be! It became the meaning of my life to know Christ more through Mike Peters! Honest! Jesus said, do they accuse you? well then, neither do I, go and sin no more. Mike, I pray fire to your hard-drives and hard copies no matter where they may be hidden. IT's time to forgive your captives and let them go. I love you man.   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 31 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:22 pm:        Mister Tim D, you are sooo dramatic, and you are WAY off base. I don't know if you really believe your assertations, or are just trying to massage and spin information for some "get revenge at Dan because he wouldn't embrace you when you wanted to hang around him". I'm not sure about what your motives are for all of this. I don't think she wants posted here what her husband did to her and her family, that SHE came to me about. I have spent only a very few minutes of my life with Elizabeth, answered her questions forthrightly with witnesses, and have played no "husband role" whatsoever. I barely know her. She had a verrrry bad experience in her marriage, and not only did I assist her but sat at length with her husband on a couch chatting and encouraging him AFTER they were back together after their calamity. I really don't know why you are doing this, but "whatever". I'll add also, that I haven't been on a "walk" with a sister anywhere in Indianapolis, or any such thing, since I was barely out of my twenties EONS ago. At that time, the era the "author" was quoting, there wasn't anyone in the church here that DIDN'T go for long walks, including the guys who have posted here. Some of them with married women, some with singles. I'd agree, not brilliant, regardless of the Scriptural topics each of the dozens of folks were talking about, which is probably why no one does that anymore, not the ones in their twenties nor their fifities or sixties. Now, mister drama king, you need to apologize for trying to mislead people too. As for internet access, there are a hundred or more in the church here who are essentially forced by work or college situations to have internet access. So, another blunder on your part. And yet, everyone who CAN use NetNanny, and other Christian-based filters, or a proxy to keep the slime (even pagans admit that "MySpace" and "a new 10,000 sites every day" are potential sources of great tragedy. You've read the quotes from news sources and christian organizations about "40% of adults attending services have had an affair. Look around next sunday." and "50% of adult males in attendance have indulged in internet pornography in the last 14 days" (Promise Keepers). Only a careless parent (and I know something of your homelife) would allow unlimited internet access in their homes, or even want unprotected porn spam and popups and filthy things to come into their home. Even the pagans and James Dobson agree. The hundred or more (it's probably a lot more) who have situations that require more exposure than they like will still choose to use the filters and proxy protections at home and whenever possible, even on their pda's. You want to unlock exactly WHAT into the lives of those who care about their own hearts and children? And you can stop the ridiculous vulgar railing also. I don't control anyone and no one who doesn't want to speak with me has to do so. I didn't start all of this, and nothing could please me more than to "leave you alone" -- except who is chasing who, exactly?   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:23 pm:        To all who read this. My personal email address, even cell phone # was given in my first post. I know that was risky, to some I may appear naïve but this was my reasoning. I fear dishonoring Jesus and His name more than the inconvenience of being harassed by others who strongly disagree with or even despise me. So, therefore, I ask you, please let me know if you do not whiff the aroma of Christ in what I write. I want to speak the truth in love, seasoning it with salt, imparting grace to those who read. Encouraging and building up the body is “my meat” that brings satisfaction. This negative, tearing down stuff is only the necessary demolition work needed to clear space for “positive” building. God said to Jeremiah, “See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant." Again the “negative” plays a part, but it is “unto.” Always, “unto.” And that ultimate “unto” is the glory of God as seen in the face of Jesus Christ. Our being conformed to that image and displaying value and worth to the world by willingly, joyfully, lovingly serving Him. May we never get kicks from the “exposing” aspects of this site. May they sadden us. Speaking of which I just reread my last post and think I may have crossed the line in the use of sarcasm and humor. Feed back is welcomed. In response to Mike, I did receive many, many gifts of kindness over the years. I loved and still do those on the inside. But since this “money thing” has been brought up repeatedly a change has been initiated in my perception. I no longer see what was given as pure “gift,” but closer to a bribe. Mike the van you gave me was before my being asked to leave. I took it with clean conscience, but months latter after seeing an “umbilical cord” attached, I offered it back to you. You refused it, so I gave it away to a single mom whom I work with at Cracker Barrel. The “sin” that you say I was living in for years to this day has not been specified. When I asked Bryan for the reason of my excommunication he mentioned no specific sin. Only that I was “unfruitful.” I definitely never encountered a plurality of witnesses nor brought before the church. I am willing to go through that process now if you have come to see Biblical protocol as God has designed. Regarding Mike having a “mistress” I have never seen in all my observing for 18yrs any improper behavior. But I must agree that the relationship he does have with the single mom who lives with him is shrouded in mystery. And most no one else can remotely relate with woman in the way he does. Double standards exist without question. I’m done. I leave with a copy of an email that a brother sent me that describes with penetrating insight how Mike relates with woman, separating them from their husbands. I testify from painful, personal experience the truth of which I now paste: Dave, Tim and Mike, maybe you can answer, but isn't there a strange bond there between MP and the women? I believe it stems from the women seeing their husbands humiliated, asked to repent of many sins, often publicly -- which plants a seed of doubt of the husbands worth in the woman’s mind. And when their husband gives in, repenting of one imagined sin or another, it further diminishes his strength in her eyes. The only man left standing is ---- Mike Peters. He uses that manipulation to keep the women in check, who then keep their men in check. And MP loves that control -- it’s a sexless affair with dozens of women who feed his ego. Gentlemen, tell me if I am wrong, but this seems to fit. I am on the outside, looking in, and could be way off base, but for me, its becoming clearer.   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 71 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.156.61 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:34 pm:        Mike P. did you have to send a team of men to kick tim out of the state because you caught him in (or have proof of)homosexual activity? Yes or no? If not, why are you talking about homosexuality and affairs so much?   mike_indpls Junior Member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.58.58.186 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:44 pm:        Tim Sz, i do think it would be great if your wife and children had a chance to tell their stories. What IF you had control-freak behavior, unChristlike loveless actions that happened between you and them for so many years, behind closed doors -- that only they and you could have known about or changed? I certainly have held no influence over Cathy. I have spoken with Cathy only a few minutes in YEARS, and you know that. Your claims are really sad, for someone who was very happy to be here, even taking a van just two days before you were asked to leave (how angry or upset or disturbed could you have REALLY been?). That's not honest at all Tim. And you were told exactly why you were being disfellowshipped. That too is misleading or dishonest. You can cast all of the weird stuff at me that you want, but as you said, in 18 years you never saw anything off. That doesn't seem possible, does it, if I'm such a bad person? And living 100 yards from me? In the words of your biological brother, who lived 50 yards from you, "No one who has known Tim for 18 years could ever say, 'I know Tim loves me.'" And more along those lines from numerous guys. Multiple different brothers pleaded with you for your Life over time. And if "God is Love" what greater crime on the planet is there before God than to be "loveless" as everyone who knew you, including those very closest to you, said of you. Of course there were other sins, which of course we won't go into here -- but "lovelessness" is what you were disfellowhipped for, and were told so. One could also say "fruitless" in the sense, as your brother said also, "No one can say Tim Sz helped me know Jesus better" -- and that "one more year" parable was too overwhelming to ignore for too many years. The hope is ALWAYS that it would be redemptive for you to rethink your life away from having your every need met here and life being so easy for raising children and financial help and the like. You COULD have taken the time to look at your own life and the testimony of so many who knew you, instead of getting angry and slanderous against those who did so much for you for so many years. You still can. God is Good. Relax.   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 192 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:05 pm:        Mike P, you said of TimSz: >>You can cast all of the weird stuff at me that you want, but as you said, in 18 years you never saw anything off.<< When did he say that? He said he didn't see any "improper behavior", though I wouldn't consider your latenight rendevous proper. And those have been mentioned by more people than just TimSz. Maybe he just wasn't watchdogging you so he didn't see it. Or maybe you're just really sneaky?   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:39 pm:        Mike, That is the most ridiculous thing to excommunicate someone for. "Unlove" is not a sin. Did Tim get a chance to repent this this "unlove"? Sounds very suspicious. Can you find a reference in the bible that refers to kicking people out for "unlove"? You didn't answer all I my accusations. If I stated something untrue I will apologize for it and retract it. What about Augusta? What about the emails to Liz? Let's answer these questions Mike. PS - Liz wanted me to put her name on there. ChrisO was hounding us about it and she was brave enough to face your onslaught of past sins and twists. PSS - Is that all the past sin you have on me. That doesn't discredit me as much as I thought it would, can you tell Dan to embellish a little bit more so I can look more sinister next time? Tell Dan I said hi and I still care about him. My motive is in the admonishments I sent him last year. Ask him. PSSS - Tim S. comment here actually helped you out a little, but he was talking about your relationship to other women Mike... "Regarding Mike having a “mistress” I have never seen in all my observing for 18yrs any improper behavior. But I must agree that the relationship he does have with the single mom who lives with him is shrouded in mystery. And most no one else can remotely relate with woman in the way he does. Double standards exist without question. "   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:34 pm:        Hello, This is Tim D (DanRepent)'s wife Danielle. I have to speak out now against what Mike P. is doing here. Here is what the bible says about a woman who lives with a unbelieving husband (if these men are unbelieving which is what they say) is supposed to do. 1 Peter 3 1-2 1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. This IS NOT being walked out in your group. Ask Elizabeth about it, this was not the encouraged way. I know a family right now who the wife is mistreating her husband. She won't sleep with him, the children think he is evil and won't respond, she is angry at him most of the time. Is that what this scripture says? Is that how Jesus acts towards people? Of course not! You may try to attack us Mike but here is the thing, before we left we apologized to anyone that we wronged. We did it in email and in face to face. No one ever has admitted to doing anything wrong and the things we brought to that church have been exposed here by numerous other witnesses. It makes you think wow we aren't all crazy this is really happening. I am so glad that Jesus has spared us from the family wrecking tendency in your church. Just a PS- I care deeply for several people still in this group. I have tried to contact them through out the year since we have been gone and received no reply. Another one of the games. Danielle   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 5:14 pm:        Bless you, Danielle, for your courage and your insight... We are praying for you... Jen   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 5:27 pm:        Mike, This is Tim D a.k.a DanRepent. You said,"and I know something of your homelife". What do you know of my home life? Spill the beans on the internet, I have nothing to fear. Oh and about your KGB proxy server: Will it let members see this site freely? http://indianapoliscult.com I challenge you to allow members to view this and decide for themselves. Tim   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:11 am:        On behave of Elizabeth N. My key witness! She is having trouble getting a userid and password from fact net. I am posting this for her... "I have not been able to get registered on factnet yet due to some problem they are having so I have asked Tim and Danielle from the above post to post this for me until I get on the forum myself. My email is enelson8735@yahoo.com if anyone wants to contact me directly. My name is Elizabeth Nelson and my husband Vince just told me to let Mike know that we don't mind if he wants to post all our past sins. It would just further show who he really is. Mike's quote- "I don't think she wants posted here what her husband did to her and her family, that SHE came to me about." It is sad to say that it has been maybe two days since I posted my name on www.indianapoliscult.com and just as predicted here comes Mike with his record of wrongs against me and my family. Shame on me for sharing my life with people. This is indeed the saddest display I've seen, the way they bring up anything they can about your past. I would echo that the people from Indy, mostly you Mike, have done more damage to yourself by what you've said than any other accusations that are flying. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! But, he can't even see it. I beg you to slow down and really think about what you are doing with all the power people have given you. I gave you too much power myself. It has been very good to see you truly exposed. I am heart broken by the destruction you and your followers have all left in your wake. You give "gifts" to people then throw them back in the person's face. THAT'S POWER. Don't you see the control. You hear painful confessions of others’sin then bring them out when you need to defend yourself like you're unsheathing your skilled sword. PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS WHAT JESUS DOES! I DARE YOU! The history is worth me telling. My marriage had problems before I got involved with the teachings and group. My husband admitted he was in adultery. I was involved with the group at the time and he wasn’t. My husband admits that if he been living for God and leading his family I would not have been sucked in. I admit that if I didn’t cut him off from myself and his own children he wouldn’t have been so prone to turn back to his sin. I now know I was wrong to be a legalistic pharisee. God showed me my heart and he showed me that I wasn’t the only one hurting. I was so busy pointing the finger at him that I didn’t see how I gave my affection to the group, not my husband. He was standing in the way of what mattered most to me– this group. After my husband made things right between him and God. He wasn’t asking me to turn my back on God. My husband was asking me to leave a cult. Jesus showed me how to really love him. Grace. God reminded me of all the grace I’d be nothing without. I did need to stand up against sin but I needed to be a friend. To offer him the hope of repentance. Not dogmatically cutting people off when they don’t do what you want. We survived the hardest most painful situation of our lives with other people all twisted up in it. And now it is thrown back at us to smear us and discredit us. We are all sinners saved by grace. I do praise God for getting me out! I thank God for all the others we are meeting who got out, too. Amazingly, our marriage is healed and restored and Jesus is glorified."   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 6:39 am:        I found this article on another sight and thought it would be helpful to others who stumble across FactNet and remember our God is a God of infinite variety, never alow yourself to be cloned, tim "8 Signs of Immature, Carnal Christians" How to Mature from Following Men to Following Christ By Greg Gibson I have an embarrassing personal confession to make. For the first 10 years of my Christian life, I was an immature, carnal Christian..."How," you wonder? The truth is, I followed men. What I mean is that I couldn't think for myself. You see, I gave my devotion and mind to men, a movement, and a system. Then I unconsciously let them do my thinking for me.Was it the Church of Rome, the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the Mormons? No, believe it or not, it was a group of evangelicals, who preached the gospel of Jesus Christ.But, they didn't tolerate questions to their confession of faith and systematic theology. And unfortunately, I submitted my thinking to them, because I over-esteemed them as godly men. In the Bible, God has given us many descriptions of spiritual infancy vs. spiritual maturity. One of those descriptions, found in 1 Cor. 1:10-3:23, is following men instead of Christ, and using labels. Cults are notorious for using thought-control methods to undermine the Christian faith's fundamental truths, which have been agreed on in the historic, major creeds and confessions. However, even doctrinally sound Christian ministries can be guilty of using cult-like methods to teach their non-essential, sectarian, or hobbyhorse doctrines. Good Bible teachers not only proclaim Biblical truth, they also aren't afraid to teach others how to study the Bible for themselves. To keep individual disciples from straying into error, God has given His Spirit, His Bible, and His Church. Remember, we never need to be afraid of truth. (If you're feeling fear right now, why not listen to your conscience? God gave it to you as a warning signal.)   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 6:41 am:        The 8 signs of immature, carnal Christians are: 1. Reliance on an extra-biblical standard of authority such as: * A leader (author, guru, pastor, or infallible pope); * An experience (feeling or alleged revelation) * A sectarian group, movement, or organization (denomination); * A tradition (selective, truncated fragment of church history); * A document (confession of faith, or study-Bible footnotes); 2. Fear and avoidance of: * Talking to certain Christians who may challenge you * Preaching on certain Bible texts or topics * Allowing certain questions to be asked * Discussing certain biblical topics * Reading certain theological articles or books. 3. Unquestioned, uncritical agreement and allegiance to a human leader. 4. Unteachable and unwilling to listen to others from an open Bible. 5. Inability to think for oneself and form conclusions independent from outside influences and patterns of thinking received from others. 6. Reading an inordinate percentage of books by one author or publisher. 7. Leaders micromanaging details of disciples' lives that are normally areas of Christian liberty. 8. Cloning personality traits that are normally areas of Christian liberty. Those characteristics are quite different from the Bereans whom Paul commended as "fair minded...in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11). Please understand, there is no perfect organization, movement, or group. All groups are made of imperfect individuals. And, since there is no individual perfection, then there is no corporate perfection. There is only one perfect God-Man. Ask yourself, "How much do I agree with my favorite group?" If you agree 100%, beware! This could be a sign you're following men, instead of following Christ. If you suspect you may be a victim of mind manipulating leaders, what should you do? First of all, realize that the Holy Spirit is the only teacher you need to understand God... "But the anointing (Holy Spirit's teaching: cf. Jn. 14:26; 1 Jn. 2:20) which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." Second, realize that truth can set you free. Remember, never be afraid to pursue truth. For by it, you will be liberated. Jesus said, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Jn. 8:32). "I AM...the truth...No one comes to the Father except through Me" (Jn. 14:6). The Truth is a Person: Jesus Christ. Trust in Him to take you to God the Father. The Truth is a Person: Jesus Christ. Trust in Him to take you to God the Father. And finally, simply pray to God, through Jesus Christ, asking Him to show you if you have been following men or Christ. He is faithful, and He will do it.Jesus didn't say, "Follow Me(n)" or "Follow (men's interpretation of) Me." Jesus said, "Follow Me."   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:48 pm:        This is a statement by gottapost: "I've requested another facnet member to post the comments because my facnet logon is broken. I want to apologize to Mike Peters for the following statements: " While you buy cars, houses, computers and trinkets for your family plus gifts for your mistress with donations". I was wrong for saying like that. What I intended to say as I did in the latter part of my comments is that the relationship has the appearances to me of a mistress. The words from this woman to me on several occassions was that it was Mike who purchased her various expensive items. I requested the moderator to remove the comments in post 327506. I desired to change it immediately but I have since been unable to successfully logon to factnet. -gottapost "   ultimatetruthseeker Member Username: ultimatetruthseeker Post Number: 72 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 84.176.168.155 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 2:30 pm:        UPDATE: ChrisO still refuses to deny that he has been in contact with Mike Peters. Mike Peters also "forgot to mention" that he has not been in contact with Chris Olive. Mike Peters came on here seemingly trying to spin doctor the situation mainly through lightly veiled threats about--yet again--revealing more people's sins from his archive of sins that he keeps on everyone in his group. He insinuated specifically that he has DIRT on folks here about their HOMOSEXUAL sins, which seems like a fear tactic to get them to shut up. However, at this point, nothing has been substantiated, and those who stand accused have actually stepped forward despite Mike's "fear tactics" or as many call them, "terrorism." Mike Peters tried to vindicate his actions and his "church" by claiming that "WE HAVE NEVER TRIED TO GET ANYONE TO COME, AND WE HAVE NEVER TRIED TO GET ANYONE TO STAY." Those claims were questioned by yours truly who mentioned 1.) threatening the loss of your husband/wife/children/church and 100 mothers brothers sisters children is quite the motivation not to leave, and 2) Sending seekers a box of many books/tapes/CD/etc., is actually a recruitment device even if you don't admit it. Mike stated that over 1000 people a year are turned down from coming to Indy as proof that they do not recruit people. Yours truly pointed out that although that may sound pretty good, in REALITY, only a small percentage of seekers are the kind of people who would submit to Mike and be able to be controlled in this group. (I myself am a person susceptible to cults I must now confess--although each one of oursituations are very complicated). We also learned that Mike has not denied spending much time alone with younger women. Chris Olive suddenly stopped talking when Mike started talking. Coincidence? Of course! what else could it be? Finally, it seems that some folks are not afraid to share who they are and put themselves on the line to reveal the evil in Indy--despite Mike Peter's threats to reveal their sins. What will happen next? Will God reveal that Mike Peters is right despite our logic? Will Mike confess and repent? Will current members come out of his control? Will others who have left Indy tell their story as well? Let's wait and see. Please pray for God's will to be done "on earth as it is in heaven."   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 7:01 pm:        Excerpts from “The Singer”: As they went into the grain room, the Singer looked upon the great machine which turned the giant stones which milled the grist. The Singer was about to ask him where he found the mason to quarry such impressive stones, when suddenly he discovered that one of the Miller’s hands was badly scarred and crippled. “Can you run so great a stone with but a single hand?” The Singer asked. “I manage… though it always was much easier with two.” “Did you lose your hand in this machinery?” “I was in much too great a hurry three harvest-times ago. I was trying to sweep the grist away when i dropped my broom upon the floor stone. When i reached to pick it up, the great stone caught my arm and hand. And when they rolled the grinder back, this was all that I had left,” he said. “I will,” observed the Singer, “make it useful again if you will just desire it whole and believe it can be.” “It cannot be so easy, Singer. Would you wave your magic wand above such suffering and have it all be done with? I sometimes wake at midnight with a searing flame of fire and throbbing agony alive through all this twisted, dying limb. You have both hands and cannot understand this sort of pain.” “I have no pain like yours, but I have a healing melody. Earth-maker gave the song to me for healing hands like yours. Already it has helped a little girl to be made whole.” “Was her hand as badly mangled as my own?” “It was her legs – but yes, they were…” “How often I have wished that I might trade a useless hand for such a leg,” the Miller interrupted. “Why either – why not simply be made whole?” “Oh that such a healing now were possible – the speed I might regain in working at the mill. But no, it cannot be. Can you not understand? Have you no sympathy for suffering? Are you so empty of conscience as to suggest a hopeless remedy. You only add to misery by forcing me to see myself a cripple. I soon shall have to close the mill or sell it. I cannot make the necessary quota since the accident occurred.” “There is power within the Melody I know to make you well. Please, Miller, trust and let me sing and you will run the mill alone with two good hands.” “Stop your mocking. I am a sick old man whom life has cheated of a hand." He waited for the Singer to join him in his pity, but when he raised his head for understanding, the door stood open on the night and the Singer was nowhere to be seen.   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.118.71.69 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 7:04 pm:        Later, when the Singer has been arrested and is being “tried”... [Speaking of the Singer] ... “What shall we do, O Grand Musician, with the Liar who hates the Shrine of Older Life?” cried the Hater still in masquerade. “We shall smash his lyre and…” Before he could name the sentence, a small bent man made his way to the steps of the Shrine. It was the Miller with the injured hand. “May I speak before you pass the sentence?” the Miller asked the Grand Musician. “You may,” he answered back. “I am a miller. My home is by the grainfields of the east. Three years ago my hand was crushed in an accident at my own mill. This liar who calls himself the only Troubadour mocked my crushed deformity and left me screaming in the night.” “Had you no pity, Singer, for this man?” the Grand Musician asked. “He had pity enough for himself. I could have made him whole,” the Singer said. “How can you call yourself Earth-maker’s Son and have no pity? Earth-maker is merciful and filled with love.” He paced the marble stones before the crowd. At length he spoke, “Because you had no pity your hand shall be like his.” “Bring out the block and mallet.” The guards obeyed. They placed the Singer’s hand upon the block and brought the crushing mallet down. The Singer winced. The Miller walked up to the Singer who gently held his injured hand. “Would you like pity from me, Singer?” he said through his teeth. “Here, Singer, is the only kind of pity that you know.” He spit into the Singer’s face and laughed…… --calvin miller   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 8:36 pm:        Mike, You like to call these husbands whom you've kicked out "control freaks". Isn't it true that, to you, a control freak is a husband who asks his wife to biblically SUBMIT to his wisdom to LEAVE the Mike Peters church? Question: Can a person call you a "cult leader" and still be a Christian? Just wondering.   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 9:46 pm:        ChrisO, Can you explain your point in your latest post? Tim D   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 12:52 am:        This is Dennis Elslager. Mike Peters words were: “And "gottapast" I reread more carefully your VERY vulgar posting and heinous accusations, and disgusting remarks. You are very wrong -- and your inveighs are both immoral and perhaps illegal, not to mention ruthless and careless filth with full intentions of hurting my wife. I have no secratary and no unaccountable time. You have more unaccounted for time in a week than I do in a year, if you work outside of your home, or are taking busines trips these days, You are very shameful. You are crossing a very dangerous line here. Your "identity" has been protected here, and I have willingly offered mine up. And you throw such disgusting things at my wife and family? I don't think you should now remove the post -- leave them so folks can see your spiritual credibility level. Then they can read and listen to "test the spirits" on the AllAtHisFeet.com site, and make their own decisions. I think that's good. And since there is nothing to build and nothing to protect here, and never has been -- whatever anyone decides is great.” Mike Peters you are a HUGE HYPOCRITE! And this is a verifiable understatement. Gottapost may have said things in a wrong way different from what he meant and this he has confessed to. YOU, on the other hand, are exposing yourself before you can even catch it. You post the most vile post that has been posted on this thread yet and then accuse gottapost for one mis-wording. You said: “ I don't think you should now remove the post -- leave them so folks can see your spiritual credibility level.” Mike, this is why we have re-posted your vile accusations of me. As I have declared of you before, the very false accusations you make of others often proves to be you own type of sin.   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 1:00 am:        Lets get the facts right here. 1) You would never have known one single thing about my past sin except that I shared it with you and that you have severely twisted and perverted and added to. No one witnessed me do this sin except the woman involved and you would never have met her except by my bringing her in. I was convicted by God, then in my foolishness trusted a mere man to confess to, just like in Catholicism and I’ve never been Catholic. None of this is disputable, period. 2) MANY WITNESSES of your conduct have been presented regarding you and other women. They have seen you practice this! You have been giving the “appearance of evil” and at the same time setting up rules for everyone else to follow but you and your nearest adherents. 3) You said: “...not to mention ruthless and careless filth with full intentions of hurting my wife.” You say this as if you know the motives of a man’s heart. Is it possible you are deluded into thinking that you are as Christ who knew the hearts of men when he was on earth? Should I take from this statement you made that you DID try to hurt my wife with the vile and false filth you wrote about me? I wouldn’t put it past you, Mike. It’s a blessing that you didn’t hurt my wife since she knows me and knew it was lies. You only ticked her off. As in your own words “You are crossing a very dangerous line here”. You have made a reputation for yourself. Personally, I believe no one here wishes to see your family members hurting. If hurt is done it has been produced of your own making. YOU are responsible for it. 4) A vital part of, as you have said, “testing the spirit” is NOT just in the writings you have on your web site. I personally find error in your writings and certainly on your video. And I do not think ANY should follow your teaching, period. But even if they somehow seem interesting to some people, your works are as those of the Pharisees mentioned in Mt 23, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. “But all their works they do to be seen by men. By the witness of others and the glory you give yourself here on this thread for your works done, they are evidently done only when others can see and when they benefit your control or make you appear as good. When will you face this obvious shame of yours? A recent post on my blog http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/08/body-of-christ-including-head-most.html may be a needed and refreshing reminder for some here as this spiritual battle rages. Let us not forget where we came from and how we got saved. In Christ’s Grace Alone, Denny   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:05 am:        I would like to apologize to Mike and others for my post on Aug.11 I sence the Lord was grieved by my regression into a form and style of writing that is not befitting a child of His. I conformed downward into an image not worthy of emulation. Instead our souls should be elevated by transformation, into the image of Jesus. I am not cowering or suggesting we shrink back in fear. I am merely reminding us all (including myself) that life and death are in the power of the tongue, and James tells us that it is unruly and impossible for us to manage---but God’s Spirit can. The use of sarcasm has its place, Paul used it effectively in writing to the Corithians and Galations, but when used to often, it loses its impact. Let’s be sharp, but also sensitive, we can speak freely from our hearts, at the same time reflective students of what is written. May we piece together particulars from our experiences, aiming for synthesis, and so grasping larger spiritual principles. If we die to the tendency to retaliate we will more accurately interpret the mind of Christ, receive comfort and then overflow with that comfort to others. When we were children we reasoned like children and spoke like children. But now that we’re grown, lets not resemble grade school kids, bickering on the playground. Brothers and sisters, Christ is our goal. Glorifying Him our motive in all we do and say. So, together with believers in our locations lets exhort one another to steadily fix our gaze on Him. Lets beg God to open our eyes to see the BEAUTY of Jesus, His Son. And may this vision so enthrall us, as to form a new perspective on our past hurts or current sufferings. If Christ increases at the expense of our decreasing then may we count it all joy, and not as a loss, but as ----GAIN! For what can be greater than the exposure of more of Him. His desire is to go public. To be revealed and glorified “in” His saints. Lets not be false advertisements but true, authentic and genuine ambassadors of His nature. God help us, help others in a way the brings honor to His Name. Just a brother, tim   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:32 pm:        I'm not going to get into this "Who's the bigger sinner -- Mike or his accusers" debate. The point I'd like to make is that Mike Peters has a HISTORY. Whenever his church suffers a divided family (where the husband falls out of grace with Mike, while the wife remains devoted to Mike and his church), in such cases Mike always ends up calling the "rebellious" husband a "control freak" and "abusive". Now including Tim Sz, I know of 3 such husbands whom Mike has done this to. The fact is, the ONLY real "abuse" these husbands are likely guilty of is the abuse of saying they want their family OUT from Mike's control.   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:35 pm:        I'm not going to get into this "Who's the bigger sinner -- Mike or his accusers" debate. The point I'd like to make is that Mike Peters has a HISTORY. Whenever his church suffers a divided family (where the husband falls out of grace with Mike, while the wife remains devoted to Mike and his church), in such cases Mike always ends up calling the "rebellious" husband a "control freak" and "abusive". Now including Tim Sz, I know of 3 such husbands whom Mike has done this to. The fact is, the ONLY real "abuse" these husbands are likely guilty of is the abuse of saying they want their family OUT from Mike's control.   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 8:33 pm:        TimD (DanRepentRepent): I have no intention to be snide, hard, or mystical toward you in what I am about to say; I really don't. But Tim D, honestly if you don't "get it" (regarding the The Singer posting) than I'm not sure I can explain it to you. The fact that you don't "get it" exactly parallels a lot of other things here you "don't get." I know how that "sounds" to say, but I don't know what else to tell you??? Maybe you'll understand this next story then since it's not an allegory, but a true story that was in the news last week some time... -ChrisO   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 8:38 pm:        For readers at home: I know a lot of people here don't like to hear the "stories" that I post. But I think they paint a picture that is worth painting from time to time. This news story may be one of the more important ones posted, so I hope you will read on: I read this news article on www.msnbc.com the other day. I don't have the link handy and it's really not that important anyway. The story is 100% true apparently. The article discussed a man (we'll call him Frank here) who is locked away serving a life sentence for murder. Frank had to face the sister of the man he murdered 20 years previous through a new system of justice in another state where facing the family of victims is supposed to help bring closure to crimes. It seems that 20 years previous, Frank had a friend named Kevin (we'll call him Kevin here -- the article used a different name) in high school. Frank and Kevin longed for opportunities to be violent or, as Frank now recounts, find an outlet for their anger and desire to feel powerful and above everyone else. Kevin was constantly inciting Frank at school, telling him what an awful father he had at home. Kevin told Frank his father was hard on him all the time and even excessively cruel and abusive. One day, after a long period of time inciting one another and building one another's anger up towards Kevin's father (whose name was Joey), Kevin and Frank lay in wait for Joey as Joey came home from work one day... Previous to Joey walking into the house, Kevin and Frank and riled one another up for hours previous, put on Army fatigues to further inflate their feelings of power, and then found Joey's guns in the house. And then sat waiting for Joey to come home. When Joey walked in the door. Kevin -- Joey's own foster son -- shot Joey in the shoulder. Then Frank ran up, pointed the gun at Joey's head, and pulled the trigger. The funeral was closed casket. What Frank found out 20 years later when facing Joey's sister in prison was that Joey was extremely well liked by everyone who knew him. He was never ever abusive to Kevin and in fact Joey and his wife had opened their home to twelve other foster children of which Kevin was one, loving every one of them. The article doesn't say why Kevin had such wickedness in his heart towards a man who was working day and night, pouring out his love and heart and life and money on as well as a house full of a dozen other children. But somehow, somewhere along the line, Kevin didn't see his own foster father that way despite what had to be a ton of incredibly overwhelming evidence around him. Instead, he incited his friend against the man who was laying his life down for him and laying his life down for twelve others as well as his own adult siblings so it seems. Joey's death was a gigantic family and community tragedy, one that many people have never gotten over apparently. (Joey's sister in the article is still an absolute wreck because of it.) It turns out that Joey was the anti-thesis of everything Kevin had made him out to be.   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 8:41 pm:        But Frank didn't know that. He only heard what Kevin told him. He had never ever met Joey. Never spoke with him. Didn't know what he was like at all. He listened to someone else's anger, desire for power, lust for violence, and packs of lies and allowed those things to drive him to the point of putting a bullet through his head. The tragedy of that act and how it damaged untold lives including his own was and is beyond description. And Frank, when he found out after the fact what Joey was really like was speechless. Dumbfounded. Paralyzed with regret. It never ever occurred to Frank that Kevin could be painting a very distorted view of Joey. Stupid little lies that Kevin believed (for again, God only knows what reason when the evidence had to be overwhelmingly in contradiction to how he allowed himself to feel and judge Joey's life) and told Frank and Frank believed them and look what happened. Not only did an innocent man die, but a loving, kind, sacrificial, hugely benevolent man that was father to a dozen others and a husband and brother and son and friend to many was now gone forever. Over stupid little lies and two people who wanted to feel power for one afternoon. ----- I've recently been traveling a bit lately and listened to several teachings from Indianapolis that are downloadable from http://www.AllAtHisFeet.com/downloads. I submit to everyone here -- even if I had never ever set foot in the city of Indianapols in my entire life -- that there is no way that these guys can be what they are being made out to be here. You can't just "make up" the stuff that you hear on these tapes and recordings. I and others know a concoction when we hear one. I'm asking you all reading at home, before you go getting "excited" and decide to murder someone (that's what gossip, slander and accustion does and why it's listed in that same breath as murder in the scriptures) that you don't know -- listening to the evil, murderous lies of DanRepentRepent, UltimateTruthSeeker and other "Kevin's" here (people who were in the loving household and despite overwhelming evidence around them, for God only knows why [well actually people do know why], have decided to pull out guns)... I hope you'll take the time to get to know the people under scrutiny here by listening to what they have to say. The audio is best because you can hear the third dimension of their voices. This isn't some concocted "we're better than everyone else" church. It's impossible, if you really listen, care, and don't have a "hidden agenda" to entitle yourself to sit in judgement on things, to think these guys are pretending at all. There is real love, care, concern, discretion, wisdom, and depth to the people there that is unmistakable. I would never have had to have been there to know that just by listening to the audio files there...!!! Don't listen to people who, for God only knows why (and again, we do know why in most of the cases here), have this disposition of hatred, pride, and arrogant entitlement and judgement in their hearts. Situations which have happened have happened for good reasons and sometimes after 20 years (as has already been pointed out in one case) of endless pouring out of love, help, money, tears, concern, etc. in many people's direction. Not to mention the details aren't anything like what they portrayed here as I've demonstrated time and time again. Check things out before you "pull the trigger." I'll bet after 20 years, Frank is now wishing he had done the same thing and not listened to his "buddy," Kevin. -ChrisO   wirklichmir Member Username: wirklichmir Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.103.143.97 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:09 pm:        UltimateTruthSeeker: We still haven't heard from the wives involved. Now I'm not saying we should actually drag them into this filth just to "prove a point." I, and if I can speak that directly for people in Indiana and Ohio, care more about them (and their families, including the husbands still, believe it or not) than to go to that kind of length. But let's not forget that: (1) It's the husbands that are being accused of wrong-doing, (2) asked to leave and go their own way as a result, and (3) they (the husbands) are the only ones we've heard from so far "recounting" how they are "in the clear." Now that seems a little peculiar to me, I don't know about anyone else. There are also some near-adult children in some of those situations that might shed some light on things as well. So... Those are some things to think about. Seems like we are missing some very big "other sides of the stories" here. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that "Indy" has been out of the picture for a good length of time in these cases and the wives very much feel based on the last 3 months or so that there are big problems in their households -- which have nothing at all to do with "Mike's control." Again, from the perspective of how a pagan court of justice would go about it as opposed to the "kangaroo court" proceedings in here. So far, I've only heard from those who witnesses say have some serious spiritual issues going......... -ChrisO   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:21 pm:        ChrisO, Did you not read the testimonies of Danielle and Elizabeth? And I gave testimony about Denny repeatedly through this board. Some women HAVE spoken. Jen   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 2:23 am:        Chris Olive, you know full well that the woman who are still loyal to indy cannot connect to the internet directly. If you can get Dave Whitefield or Chris Zachidny to approve FACTNet than Cathy and my daughters can freely write as they wish. While i'm thinking about the subject of "control" i would like to bring up a few questions that perhaps you can find out answers for us Chris. The Meijers on 38th ST. The Wal-Mart on 86th St. are they still restricted shopping venues or has the ban been lifted. Also just in case any woman out their thinking about joining themselves to the indy group. Did you know that not a single woman works outside of the home? None that i know of. (email me Mike with names and i will recant) Not a single girl "goes" to college. No children are apart of any sports leagues. None. (mike you cant count Josh that was 10yrs ago) What books one can or cannot read was also determined from the top. (no formal list but everyone knew) One example that is clear in my mind was the page sent out commanding us not to read anything written by a brother named John Piper. No attempt to persuade by valid reasons was given. Just the edict, "Don't read." I myself asked a brother named Bryan B. and i asked Mike 5 times to give citations or some evidence of John Piper's errors. No quotes or references to this day have been given. To my way of thinking “that” is slander. That is control. That is "lording it over" the faith of the believers. Let us never do that to each other, brothers and sisters. Let us gently persuade each other through scripture and reason, bathed in humility and love. Never forgetting that Jesus is our only Master and ultimate Teacher and we are all siblings. May we love to have it so. For the increase of His glory, tim   getagrip Intermediate Member Username: getagrip Post Number: 219 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 72.64.223.244 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:03 am:        Wirklichmir: There is a lot I don't get. If I don't get your "Singer" reference, I'm some sort of lost Christian? I don't get your name either. The fact that you view Mike Peters as a sympathetic, Christ-figure is your business. Seriously, I am not trying to be rude but why the long-winded posts? Also, why do you keep saying you aren't posting anymore and then post again? Do you have difficulty controlling your actions/emotions or just simply keeping your word?   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 10:15 am:        Chris Oliver, In response to your cute story: The point of all of this is not that we are the one despondent child that came back to murder his father. What we are saying is that the actual reality of the life lived does not match what is on the web site. Anybody can say anything -- but living it out is much more difficult. In fact, as hundreds can now attest, the web site, the teachings, the books, and the words of Mike Peters and allathisfeet are mostly a deception -- pure and simple. More than a few people were drawn in by the teachings of www.allathisfeet.com by the lure of a sweet relationship with Jesus, unstained and pure. It sounds so good, but living within the teachings have killed relationships with extended families, wives, husbands and children. And as many people have now testified first hand, the life in Indy (and maybe Columbus) is controlling, manipulating, and thrives on guilt. For the readers at home, what kind of God-fearing movement encourages separation from Godly parents? What kind of Jesus-loving church removes grandchildren from the love of extended family? What kind of church discourages marital closeness, tenderness and time together? What kind of church encourages wives to manipulate their husband by withholding affection? What kind of "Holy Spirit" would enable people to act in His stead -- convicting, guilting, and robbing people of joy. Jesus came to redeem not just the body, not just the soul, but also our relationships. And by this, Mike Peters and his teachings are condemned and we must cry out. THAT, Chris, is why we have the need the need for this conversation and www.indianapoliscult.com. It is to warn those who might be lured by the spiritual "candy" of allathisfeet and to help those who want to escape its clutches.   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 3:59 pm:        I just got an email from Factnet stating that they are low on funds. If they do not get reach their goals in 10 days they will have to shut down factnet or start charging to use it. They are asking that the factnet community support them. We are praying if we should support this site.   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 2:06 am:        I agree with danrepent that we should be in prayer about sharing with FactNet. We can also thank God for the other website www.indianapoliscult.com being established as a lighthouse for those adversely affected specifically by Mike Peters leadership. This could remain even if FactNet does not. We will pray for this website as well. I have not designed my blog http://noahlot.blogspot.com/ for the sole purpose of a ministry to those spiritually harmed by MP. But, I will on occasion have something there that may minister to some in this way. I just finished a new post and I want to invite you to: http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/08/to-my-new-friend-tim-szazynski.html It may bless you to see how we can encourage one another in the Lord in spite of the miles between us. There is no space between the Holy Spirit dwelling in the Body of Christ. We have some differences, doctrine must be pure and also undefiled by legalism or worldliness, but nothing can separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Not even space. We are One in the Lord if you do have His Spirit full of Grace and Truth in your mortal body. We are above the lies and deceits of graceless false gospels. Let us rise above and hopefully, lovingly provoke some to jealousy for the FREEDOM we have IN CHRIST JESUS! Let false accusation fly. They don’t have enough strength to hit us if we see ourselves as seated in Heavenly places with Him. It is to high for them to hit us with any lasting affect. I do apologize for my going a stray at times with certain posts on my blogspot. I am learning by God’s Grace. And, some of you are being used of God to show me what God is working on changing in me. THANK YOU! I have great joy and peace in knowing you are willing to do this for me. Please don’t stop! I do pray that I will edify you as well. In Christ, Love, Denny http://noahlot.blogspot.com/2006/08/to-my-new-friend-tim-szazynski.html   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 4:20 am:        HABITUAL/SERIAL EXAGGERATOR Yes, that is what Mike Peters is. I can't say that Mike has ever outright lied to me, but he's honestly perfected the "art" of exaggerating to the point that I think he believes what he says. Here are some obvious examples: (1) Any husband who wants to exert his biblical role of leadership, wanting to remove his family from the Mike Peters church -- Mike calls such husbands "abusive" and "control freaks". Of course we're not talking about physical abuse, merely emotional or verbal abuse -- something that ALL of us married people have been guilty of from time to time. (2) In his 8/11 post, Mike attacks Tim Sz as "worse than an infidel". Why? Because Tim has bought a health club membership. Perhaps Tim's wife disagrees with this -- just as all of us husbands and wives sometimes disagree over the way we use our money. No big deal -- until Mrs. Sz reports Tim to Mike. Then he becomes "worse than an infidel". (3) Most obviously, early on in this thread, Mike made the most vulgar exaggeration about Denny. He managed to STRETCH one immoral incident into "He's probably with a prostitute tonight". (4) Any attack on Mike or his church is immediately labelled "slander" and you'll often see Mike start spewing words like "illegal" and "immoral". The beauty of Mike's exaggeration strategy is that it's always based on a shred of truth. For example, if someone opens up a single pornographic spam email -- either intentionally or accidentally -- Mike will say that man has "a porn habit". Look at the way Mike (and Chris) label this site, FactNet. Chris calls it "filth" and Mike calls it "spiritual pornography". So the next time Mike attacks someone, saying this or that about their lifestyle -- consider the exaggerating source!   tim_szazynski New member Username: tim_szazynski Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 216.221.199.111 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 11:07 am:        One of the most bizarre and devastating effects of false teaching that I observed during my 18yrs in Indy was this: Wives show no affection toward their husbands. Even queerer, they will not gladly receive “from” their husbands. I have spoken to at least six brothers (all who are still inside) who stated that their wives disdain physical contact. One wife even has a separate bedroom and has not been intimate with her husband in 6 years. I recently spoke to a brother (on the outside) who said His wife has not kissed Him in over a decade. My experience is a decade-plus. When I attempt to kiss my wife’s cheek as I go to work, she turns her face, and displays an expression as if having gulped sour milk. This is very sad, very twisted and very unnatural. I said in my first sentence that this bizarre behavior is due to false teaching. I have neither heard nor read any "direct" instruction, teaching woman this behavior, but through the continual emphasis of what has been called, “family idolatry,” this perverted view of marriage has resulted. The biggest error, fostering this “anti-affection” in my opinion is “error by omission.” The absolute and utter neglect of revealing through scripture, the blessing, joy, privilege, beauty and yes the frolicking “fun” of marriage. Not once do I recall the expounding of married couples conjugal rights as as recorded in 1 Cor. 7. Never, in my recollection was the Song of Songs quoted. I was so disturbed by this, that I asked Mike P. five times if he believed SOS was inspired. He never answered. My personal belief for any Newlyweds, engaged couples or veterans is this. When two people are joined together in marriage. If united in love, in soul and Spirit, that love “must” find expression. That “must” is as natural and “unsinful” as our desire for eating or sleeping. Sex is God’s invention, pleasure it’s goal. Can sin pervert it? Sure, just as eating can be contorted into bulimia and sleep devolve into sluggishness, yet when experienced as designed, they should be received as “good gifts!” Our Father delights to see His children enjoy the full range of what it means to be human. To be whole. Redemption is bringing us back to “normal”, and then more, much more. I also believe that God has granted this strange activity called “sex” to give us a vocabulary, to aid our understanding into the deeper mysteries of knowing our Oneness and Union with Him. Is that not what Paul meant in Eph. 5:31-32? Husbands, I encourage you, for the display of Christ's love for His Church. Fan into flame your passion for your wife, may your love for her percolate. Boil brother, boil with intensity. Don’t be luke warm and so nauseate her, may your heart be a burning flame, incinerating the slightest approach of unfaithful temptations. If you love her in this way you will love yourself and God will be honored and glorified. Ponder her needs, consider what pleases her. Be creative as your heavenly Father is creative. On this subject I’ve been accused of being out of my mind; if I am, it is for your sake. tim   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 198.234.148.77 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 12:57 pm:        Tim S. I have some evidence to back you up.Mike says in the Marriage Perspectives paper -"But you'll never do that by compromising and giving in to their emotional and physical blackmail.” Here is a portion from the indianapolis cult web site: There are emotional and spiritual needs that must be acknowledged in the home. No matter what the spiritual condition of the spouse is, it doesn't get the Christian spouse off the hook for their marital responsibilities. God made it so in the beginning. It is not wise to break one commandment to try to uphold another if that is possible. Uncover the false doctrine of marriage: http://indianapoliscult.com/AllatMikesfeet/Marriage.aspx   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 2:13 pm:        Proverbs 5:15-20 Drink water from your own cistern, And running water from your own well. Should your fountains be dispersed abroad, Streams of water in the streets? Let them be only your own, And not for strangers with you. Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice with the wife of your youth. As a loving deer and a graceful doe, Let her breasts satisfy you at all times; And always be enraptured with her love. For why should you, my son, be enraptured by an immoral woman, And be embraced in the arms of a seductress? And this concept is repeated here: 1 Corinthians 7:2-5 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I am pasting these scriptures here because from a wife's perspective, this is how I see it. Paul goes on to say that this is a concession, not a commandment. That he would that all men had the gift he did. But not all men do. Is it at all possible that the very sins of pornography viewing etc. are happening in part because wives are not loving their husband's? Because wives are being discouraged from doing so? I'm not saying that the men are guilt-free if they get into the stuff and that it's all the wife's fault, but for goodness sakes! They're human, with GOD-GIVEN desires for their wives! If a wife turns her back on her husband's needs, she can't possibly expect for him to be some perfect monk. And her needs will not be met either. And "love" will die. Love is a choice of action, not a fuzzy feeling. Denny and I have fuzzy feelings at times, and at times we don't. But we always choose to love each other. And sex is a natural, wonderful, mutual outpouring of that commitment. And that is as God intended. If this is what is happening in these groups, it seems to me that this must be Peters' way of gaining and keeping control over families. If GOD Himself spoke through Paul and stated that we are not to deprive one another lest we be tempted, does it not stand to reason that Peters apparently wants the men to be tempted, and thus fail? Hence, control. Just one wife's perspective. Jen One more side note: To the men - Remember that God will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able to bear. 1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. Denny and I believe that because you are remaining faithful to your wives, God will preserve you through this time, and as the head of your home, your faithfulness to Him can restore your marriages and families. We are praying for all of you!   speakingtruth Intermediate Member Username: speakingtruth Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 209.9.208.7 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 2:27 pm:        I just need to reiterate one point. I am NOT saying that sexual sin on the part of the husband is the wife's fault. The men are responsible for their own actions. I AM saying that we, as wives, are responsible for our own actions according to the above scriptures. Jen   danrepent Junior Member Username: danrepent Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.95.71.20 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 8:09 am:        Some are having trouble posting on factnet. I know of three ex-members who can not get user ids. For their sake and the fact that factnet maybe closing down. We created this google group to continue... http://groups.google.com/group/indianapoliscult   cult_fighter Junior Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10