| Author | Message | ||
     dowen Junior Member Username: dowen Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
I have no idea who started this thread, but since it is here, I might as well use it. In my opinion, all of the accusations against HH rest on the premise of "mind control", so I have done a little studying about it. In my brief bit of research, I have found out many interesting facts and web sites, such as this one. http://raven1.net/perpform.htm Sorry folks, but the utter insanity of sites like this provide me with comedic relief beyond measure. And comfort, to some extent. Because the kooks on FN are best buds with the kooks that made this site. FACTNEt is nothing more than a hook up bar for conspiracy freaks and tin foil hat wearers. Continue on folks, your posts make for hilarious reading. DOwen. | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
"There is a special place in hell for those who remain silent." -- DANTE and for those who know the truth and do not tell it... | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 73 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
I've enjoyed the little cease fire here, and hope for it to continue, if Dan the man will cooperate. I'll address the folks, other than Dan and Prax. I want you observers to notice three things: First, Dowen and Prax will not join Homestead Heritage. They aren't dumb- they don't want to be under a yoke of bondage. Second, they almost never discuss doctrine of HH, and do not discuss what those laws and regulations are. Third, they rarely use the Bible to validate those unspoken doctrines of Homestead Heritage. So those of you wondering if Homestead Heritage is okay, well, bad news, it is a cult and heresy. Those ministers teaching Homestead Heritage doctrine are not teaching Christianity, but their own cult, their own society, and the "revealed" doctrines of men and God's authority. Flee from it! If any of you Homestead Heritage authorities are reading- you are cowards. You are unwilling to put out what you do, and what you believe. You are going to suffer a trip to God's woodshed. | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, Let me just share one thing, which I have shared before but not to Majidh, most of whose posts simply fall to the ground, not needing comment. Especially seeing his rants, it is humorous to see him critiquing today with hindsight on low places my doctrinal and Biblical discussions earlier on the forum. However this is an important question .. "Dowen and Prax will not join Homestead Heritage .." Keep in mind that whatever I will do will be a cause of offense to the oppos. Now I have not visited HH for a few years and look forward to a soon visit, it will be a pleasure and an honor and a joy to fellowship with my dear friends, when the grace of God brings that to pass. I have had my heart geared towards a visit and been a bit slow on the uptake however I believe everything is in God's perfect timing nonetheless. (And if I am in touch with some of my old dear friends who are not currently in HH, that is fine as well, although I think most of them would have little or nothing to do with the Factnet inquisition junque.) Now whatever occurs in my life, the oppos will use to try to discredit what I share. If God were to move me to deeper relationship with HH, then I would simply be a drone or a clone to their minds. And if I were to have some distance from HH, as today, then the critique would be like what you have above. It is again a bit of the winebibbers and ascetic syndrome. So please keep that in mind. I do appreciate how seeing the depth of depravity of the oppos has clarified in my mind and heart certain views of respect and honor toward HH. It is an appreciation with a sadness, for sure, since my heart is grieved that folks could be in such a pickle of confusion and acrimony and bondage towards a community and a people who has shared with them so much in such depth. Anyway, I just want to point out the 'get you coming and get you going' syndrome. Whatever I do will be critiqued, a cause of offense, the oppos will tailor their arguments not for fairness and truth but simply to try to discredit those who offer counterpoint and balance on this forum. One way or another. Perhaps they should use the Dylan motto as their theme, 'everyone must get stoned'. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
Still waiting on doctrine and the Bible....... | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Prax, Prax: Now whatever occurs in my life, the oppos will use to try to discredit what I share. The problem is what you wont share. You have yet to share this: What must a member of Homestead Heritage believe and do to receive salvation according to Homestead Heritage doctrine? | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Pastorette of the Fellowship of None, why don't you share your view of salvation, since you are so anxious to take pot shots at anything that is expressed. One can see you carrying your Pastorette Peashooter at your side, ready to spray your buckshot. 'Foreverhis', I will tell you one thing straight - there is never an ounce of sincerity that can be perceived in your interrogation. Now .. is salvation in the ecumenical fellowship of Appalachian soup kitchens, as you seemed to originally share when we addressed such questions ? Do you look at salvation as something that is held in the hip pocket, OSAS-style ? Simply do A-B-C and that's it ! And is Mrs. Alvear in deep deception to believe her 'legalism' - that water baptism in Jesus name is an essential part of salvation ? Are you ready to rake her over the coals and denounce her view as a doctrine of demons, a cult, as does your handlers in the Watchman org ? And how about the folks who left HH because of sin in their lives .. can you join in a heartfelt cry that they can come to a place of repentance ? And look at some of the strange spirits posting on this forum. Are they 'saved' as long as they say 'I am sort of a Christian and I don't like HH' ? I can happily and assuredly give you my sense of salvation as a walking with the Lord Jesus Christ, a walk of holiness and grace, each and every day. Something I began in the days when I repented, cried out on the name of the Lord Jesus and was filled with the spirit of God and washed in the precious name of Jesus Christ. Yes, that was beautiful, and the wonderful help and grace in walking with Jesus, unto salvation. What is your view ? And please .. why don't you finally come clean and truly confess the sin of the horrible untruth you spoke on this forum. Stop trying to hide your sin by speaking in couched riddles. Ditch the tude, the .. "I will blame HH for anything that happens to anybody at anytime no matter what" deep deception which you have expressed. (Remember .. 10, 20, 30 years, anything is the fault of HH). Foreverhis, why not first come clean before God and man. So that you can really speak and share from the heart with fullness and earnestness seeking the precious truth of salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Shalom, Praxaluh} | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I have beaten no children, locked no children up in their rooms for days weeks months, have divided no families, have not driven people to killing their own children, taught no people to lie about what we believe and have never made big kids wear diapers because they were acting like children. Prax, why donīt you join the fellowship? Are you a coward? Do you elieve like they believe? Of course not or you would be there...lol.. Why donīt you examine what you believe instead of guessing what others believe? What I believe has never been a secret for our church has no secret doctrines. I do not claim to be Jesus in the flesh and neither do I lie about people that leave my church.. Like someone wrote me and said, "the pain of knowing"= what goes on at HH is deep..." You would know nothing about those kind of things would you? It does not matter to me on this forum what anyone personally believes or teaches. I am not here to examine doctrines. I am here to denouce abuse that is done in the name of Christ... You may disagree BUT it will come out... | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Thank you Mrs. Alvear for giving the forum a beautiful example of the confusion and gnashing of teeth of the oppos. Precisely like I shared on the other thread. Mrs. Alvear "Prax, why donīt you join the fellowship? Are you a coward? Do you believe like they believe? Of course not or you would be there...lol.. " Please .. note the nervous laughter, the mockery, the sinful and embarrassing chiding from anger. Mrs. Alvear, you know full well that if I were to be part of HH in the months ahead you would simply rant to the forum in the opposite direction. How I was a clone or a drone or brainwashed and deceived. The unfair nature of the oppos in discussing HH is completely transparent. This one I often call it the winebibbers and ascetic syndrome. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 77 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
Prax, where's the content in your posts? You answer nothing! You just call names and berate the posts. That is useless. Is Homestead Heritage a golden calf? Knock off the defending it like it is a god! Tell you what- you don't post, and I don't post. What are the diaper and locked in rooms stories? What's the doctrine? What does the Bible say? | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
When people really find out that Praxīs golden calf is a fake and what happens behind the scenes his attitude will change... Nothing is unfair about discussing HH. This is an open forum and when this shuts down if if does there will be other forums. Prax is not aware of what REALLY goes on at HH... | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I really donīt think Prax really knows...I know he says all kinds of things belittling others that speak out but something tells me down deep he really does not know. He has friends there, admires what he remembers but he does not know the real HH only the surface. I cannot imagine Prax being a man that does things I saw go on there in the name of God. Maybe that is the missionary in me but so many things are covered up at HH a person would have to be very smart and led by God to really catch on. I am not saying he is not smart or led by the HG but I am saying I donīt think he would cover up for things I know to be a fact...things that are very wrong... Daniel does not know either...only what they want him to know but he knows enough NOT to be a member... | ||
| wordworks2001 New member Username: wordworks2001 Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.58.127.165 |
I am the author of {i}The Ghosts of November: Memoirs of an Outsider Who Witnessed the Carnage at Jonestown, Guyana.{/i} My name is Jeff Brailey. Please google the title or my name to check my bona fides. I would like to interview former and current members cults or alternative religions as for a book I am writing. I have been writing about alternative religions for about 30 years. I approach each group I write about with an objective and open mind. I have written about the House of Yahweh, a religion based in Abilene, Texas that was billed as the "deadliest doomsday cult in America" and after living with the group for about a week, wrote an article refuting that characterization. I hope some of you who have contacts within a group will encourage them to speak with me. My email address is wordworks2001@yahoo.com and my blog is http://novemberghosts.blogspot.com | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Prax, I have happily shared my view of the Gospel and salvation MANY times in these threads. I have no beliefs to hide, because I am not ashamed of the Lord or His Gospel. I am willing to be ridiculed for it and Him. I am not trying to appease men by denying what I believe. I dont mince words or spin them in order to be accepted by others. In my opinion Homestead has a LOT to hide, including what they really believe. Are they not willing to suffer for what they believe? If they have the truth, then the truth will stand. They can not even give people a statement of faith. Why, because they do not want to be pinned down on what they believe? Here are these "great writers" anointed for the end times who are not even anointed enough to develop a statement of faith that can not be misunderstood. (baloney) You said: I can happily and assuredly give you my sense of salvation That is not what I asked for. What must a member of Homestead Heritage believe and do to receive salvation according to Homestead Heritage doctrine? People are coming to this site to find out what FH believes, though I have shared it many times. Like it or not: They are here to find out what Homestead Heritage believes. They do not have to take an "Opps" word for what Homestead Heritage believes. They have two supporters here who can share what Homestead Heritage believes. So I ask again: What must a member of Homestead Heritage believe and do to receive salvation according to Homestead Heritage doctrine? | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
Prax and Dowen use a lot of experiential statements about their relationship with Homestead Heritage, God, and the people there. I'm getting the sense that they have had holy ghost (antiquated name and small case on purpose) experiences that take the place of logic, Bible, and doctrine. It would never hold up to a Biblical scan. Doctrine was VERY important in the Bible, and the Word of God is very important to the Biblical writers. I don't care if you babble tongues, or got the holy ghost shakes, or had a strange warming in your heart while fellowshipping with God's people. If it doesn't stand up to the Bible it is worthless. Two excerpts from the net referring to the doctrine of the Nicolatians: Question: My question is from the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. In the second chapter first the church of Ephesus vs.6 "the deeds of the Nicoliatanes which I also hate" and again to the church of Pergamos vs.15 "So hast also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes." Also I believe the warning to Smyrna vs.9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan," and Thyatira vs.20 "because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess," are all warnings to the church of Jesus Christ about a doctrine. I am not talking about women preachers, I don't believe the Bible is either, but rather a doctrine that was very prevalent at the time that would infect four of the seven churches. I believe that if it were just a local thing and not for our day it would not have been included in the Book. I am not a prophet nor the son of a prophet, but I cannot find a good explanation for my question. Response: Thank you for your feedback. We don't really know much of what the Nicolaitans taught other than what is stated in the book of Revelation. Some have seen in the term Nicolaitan is a compound of nikao (to conquer, or overcome) and laos (people) and have understood this group as "conquering the people" in some sense. However, it seems more likely that these people were followers of a man named Nicolaus. This could also be a reference to the Nicolas who was one of the original deacons of Acts 6 who might have later went astray. In early church writings the Nicolaitans are mentioned briefly by Irenaeus and Eusebius. Whatever the doctrine of the Nicolaitans was, the Lord said that he hated it (Rev. 2:15), but there is really no way to be sure of what they taught. by Jay Atkinson The doctrine of the Nicolaitans was mentioned in the Apocalypse of John to the churches of Pergamos and Ephesus of the seven churches of Asia in Revelation 2. It is a symbolic name of a party that represents the hierarchy of a ruling class over the rest of the people, developing a pecking order of fleshly leadership. Jesus hates this and warns the people to repent or else "I will come upon you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." The same warning illustration is applied to those that abused grace, which led to licentiousness from the example of Balaam, seducing Christians to fornication and tampering with idolatry. The individual overcomer is allowed to eat of the hidden manna and given a white stone with a new name written in it. Shepherds serve the sheep but the wolves that clothe themselves with so-called leadership and spiritual authority serve themselves, thinking that they serve God, in essence, this makes them false christs. Early church leaders were established as overseers, not a ruling hierarchy. | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 41 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax has been gone from there so ong I doubt if he even knows the "up to date" reqirements... | ||
| irenaeus New member Username: irenaeus Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 72.43.194.198 |
Hello, I have been following this thread on Homestead Heritage on and off for some time. Many of the things people are saying are very interesting. There is certainly no shortage of strong feelings about this group, Oneness Pentecostalism or for that matter the history and origins of the UPC and Homestead Heritages connection with that. I dont know if any one from HH ever reads these discussions but it seems clear that some who do read and post here have had various connections with them. I dont want to inflame anyone but it seems most people who post here are surly missing the most important point. There are many these days that are looking for something much more meaningfully, serious and substantial than run of the mill Christianity with the same old party lines and all the doctrinal confusion. HH offers something that many are looking for. Singular leadership, and vision, seriously committed people and a very community oriented society with people who do strive for holiness as they understand it. From that stand point of someone inside of a OP church and especially HH there is a lot of security and as long as youre not a threat to the leadership you will probably be treated with much charity and you will probably be received with love by many of the other members as well. These churches are full of intelligent well meaning and mostly sincere people. I know because I was in one for over 10 years. Given all this I can tell you from an insiders perspective that claims of being a cult, mind control, or anything of the like are ridicules to them. And if all your complaints and accusations swirl around hurt feeling bad experiences or mean leadership. It will be like throwing pebbles against the Titanic, because in that regard your arguments are very week. Most people there are their by a free will choice so mind control is not a possibility, at least not of any blatant form anyway. As far heavy handed or mean leadership, well in their opinion it takes a rigorously authoritative leadership to fend off attacks of the Devil, protect the sheep, (which is what Christ compare us to so their has to be some truth to it) and keep doctrinal unity which is at the heart of any group, Christian or not. In fact the scriptures are full of very authoritative commands from St. Paul and other Apostles, and many exhortations to keep unity of Faith. If I had more time I am sure I could fill the page with examples from the bible. - In other words Christianity is not a democracy, and there are things one must believe and obey. And yes often times even people one must obey to please God. HH capitalizes on this intuitive reality and the lack of leadership and oneness of vision that exists today in most denominations today, and to that extent they are correct. When you accuse them of having a wrong model of authority they can simply go to the scriptures and find plenty of examples of strong authority in the early Church and the Apostils - ie The Council of Jerusalem. They can look at all the divisions and problems and splits that arise in Churches with week leadership and they feel very secure when they do because in some sense they are correct. Also many people who hate them the most are people that have been hurt and they are very emotional and easy to dismiss. Especially when the hurt person has plenty of faults of their own and is not blameless in what ever situation transpired, which is often the case. | ||
| irenaeus New member Username: irenaeus Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 72.43.194.198 |
Part II Well getting to the point. The issue at hand here is actually very simple. We as Christians worship the true God. God has immutable attributes that are somewhat accessible to the human mind, - hence the whole point of scripture, doctrine and sound teaching. Since God is immutable and not an undefined substance such as in Hinduism, and he is in fact a person. And even took on a full human nature while remaining unchanged in his Divinity, then we ought to rightly understand his nature and worship him in truth as the scripture say to do. This metaphysical truth of who God is in his Godhead and in his revelation to through a proper understanding if the incarnation is indeed the central message of Christianity. Since the Doctrines of the Holy Trinity and the Two Natures in Christ, specifically state things about who God is and the Doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism says something very different not only about the Godhead but also the Incarnation of God, they simply cant both be correct. The one who is not correct is indeed preaching a wrong gospel and another Christ, and we know what Paul says about that. Well, than comes the question about who has the correct doctrine? Well all I can say is that a through a calm and objective investigation of the Scriptures, Church History and of the early Church it will be clearly demonstrate which doctrines are Apostolic and which are actually just resurrections of third and fifth century Heresies know as Modelism and Nestorianism. But of course this approach supposes objectivity which is rare to find when people have so much at stake, even their sense of reality. But for those who trust God and search for God in truth, and are willing to do anything for God even change at the most fundamental level, the truth will be made clear. But make no mistake what is at stake is nothing less that the state of your soul. God loves humanity and died upon the Cross for humanity. His truths are accusable to anyone of a sound mind who wants to come to know him. He made it that way because he loves his creation. He is not cruel and would not entrust the fullness of truth to tiny little sects who nobody has ever even heard of. It is not his intention to k=make it that hard to be saved. For those who are mentally impaired or truly inculpably ignorant I am sure God will have mercy on them. But for the vast majority of us we will be held accountable for what we believe and teach and say. If anyone purposely teaches things about God that are not true, how do you think he will feel about that? To all members of OPs churches and HH members dont be impressed by the charisma of your leaders. They are not any more Apostles or God ordained than the Gnostics of the second century the Arians of the Fourth or any other schismatic group through out history. They are just one more of them. You are personally accountable to seek God in truth. Your soul is at stake. - Well I would be interested in speaking to any OPs or members of HH if anyone is willing to converse in Christian Charity. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
"...a lot of experiential statements about their relationship with Homestead Heritage, God, and the people there. I'm getting the sense that they have had holy ghost (antiquated name and small case on purpose) experiences that take the place of logic, Bible, and doctrine. It would never hold up to a Biblical scan." Right. Homestead Heritage leans on "experiential" knowledge. This why they want people to "get to know them" instead of giving them a statement of faith. In my opinion, they don't want a rock to stand on. They prefer the shifting sands until they can get the new follower hooked. Their being all things to all people includes their doctrines, UNTIL the fish is ready to swallow hook, line, and sinker. Then it is 100% their way or damnation. They taught us that "experiential knowledge" was right because it was how the Jews knew God and that reasoning was wrong and "Greek" and pagan. We were taught not to trust our minds and what we saw ourselves, nor or "wicked hearts." We had to trust those God put in authority, them. Then they start introducing all this literature that reasons out their doctrines of their god equivalent authority and your blind submission in a twisted way. I never saw so much twisted reasoning to support what they want to think is biblical. They seem to think if they go around the bush enough times it all reasons out. Well if you add enough to the scripture you can reason out anything, so there is the need for their own literature being the "course of faith" for their followers instead of the Bible standing alone. Our relationship with Jesus needs to be a personal one. Salvation is an experience of "Christ in us," Himself, finishing what He started at the cross. Experience is great, even necessary, but IF our experience is with the living "Word of God," it will line up with the Word of God as it is written in the Bible. God is so good to have given us His Word in Black and white as well as in living form. This how we can test the teachings and see if they are of God, by using the written Word of God. Revelations states a curse on any one who would add to the scriptures. Many men of God expound on the scriptures, but prideful men expand on the scriptures, adding to them. I was told that all but one book of the New Testament warns of false teachers. If this is true, then God must be stressing the importance of being on our guard and testing what we are being taught. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Jesus, the Messiah, the one and ONLY begotten son of God was sinless. His blood, the blood of this sinless man, born of a virgin, who was also God incarnate, is the lamb of God, our savior. To take the body of Christ, the Church, and make IT our salvation and claim that it is now "the sacrificial body that saves us" is heresy. It is a heresy that endangers the salvation of those who would trust in its saving power [sic] instead of the saving power of the sacrifice of the ONLY begotten Son of God. The Bible warns of false Christs who will draw men unto themselves. If you ever, like me and so many others in Homestead Heritage, claimed that the group is your salvation, you have committed blasphemy. The "Body of Christ", the Church, is no more God than the temple of the Old Testament was God. Your relationship with the Church can not substitute for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who comes to abide in each believer that believes with his heart. If your faith rests in fallible men who claim they stand as a mediator between you and God, your faith will be shipwrecked. If your salvation is in your "participation" in the here and now "body of Christ," or anything else, instead of the blood of Christ shed at Calvary, you have miss placed your faith. Redemption is found in no one else, no other sacrifice, but the lamb of God. Read your Bibles. Check your focus. Where have you laid up your treasures? What and who are you trusting to save you? Where is your love for the lost? Riches can distract us from our personal relationship with Jesus. Anything can. That includes hobbies, talents, lifestyles, communities, and even so called "church participation." The enemy doesn't care which ditch he gets you to walk in, one of obvious filth, or one of self-righteousness. He will use men to trap you where ever your weakness lies. The Bible warns of at least two kinds of false teachers. Those who espouse lasciviousness and those who will bind you in subjection to rules of men. Either will keep you from the truth. Read your Bibles. Look at the scriptures in context to the verses around them. If ANYONE tells you just take their word for truth, do not just be suspicious. They deserve more than suspicion. They deserve to be rebuked and exposed as charlatans, because what they are asking you to do is not only unbiblical, it is dangerous. | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
Not saying I agree with everything in the previous post, as I have not had time to really think on it yet, but this one part really stood out to me: You are personally accountable to seek God in truth. This is what one must remember. Many groups (baptist, methodist, hh, anyone!) claim to have "the" truth, or "proper interpretation" of the Bible. In the end we will not answer to the group, nor will we be able to say, "But, Lord, that is what I was taught!" We will each be accountable for our own beliefs and actions. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Irenaeus, Welcome to the forum. I wanted you to know that I wrote my previous post before I saw yours. My post was in not a response to yours. I really appreciate your post. I appreciate your tone and the thought you put into it, and I agree with much of it's content. I agree that the reasons these sects flourish is because there are serious needs in the modern Church and people are looking for more. That is the reason we were drawn to Homestead. We were looking for more, only we didn't get more of what we were looking for. Unity for unity sake is not the same as unity in Christ. In the end we realized the modern church had more of Christ than Homestead Heritage. A person can walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and say he is a duck, but that doesn't make him one. Just because we proclaim something does not make it real. What makes us brothers, what unties us, is who we are in Christ. Walking in the Spirit and keeping the two commandments of Jesus; loving God with our all and each other as ourselves, will bring more unity in Christ than following one man's vision of what unity should look like. We can obtain a form of unity following a man, but is that really the form of unity Christ came to bring us? Unfortunately, I think it is getting to where only persecution is going to purify the Church. I think we Christians as a whole have grown complacent. Yet, God has shown me there are serious Christians living their lives to be a light to the lost and an encouragement to other Christians. They understand the times we live in and God is using them to do mighty things. Some things may not seem so mighty. Many of them, as parents, are raising their children up in the knowledge of the Lord. You will find many of those who are, in the home school movement. There is a remnant, and I have found that they are spread throughout the globe, not clustered together. I have seen some of these same people be anchors in their local communities. These are the people others lean on when they need to "find God." They are beacons for the light that shines out in the darkness. Personally, I think the family of God, the Church, is made up of the weak and the strong. If the strong cluster together and despise the weak, do we think God will actually approve and bless it? Living in an ideal community is attractive. It speaks of security and a life of fellowship. It is what we want. Is this how we will reach the lost? Does it fulfill the great commission? Yes, the "ideal" community it is what we want, but the question I have to ask myself is: Is it what God wants? FH | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
God has spoken to my heart. He has impressed on me that heaven is my home. That brought me to repentance. I need to be careful of what I am seeking here. If I seek to do His will he will put me where he wants me to be. He has been very faithful in this. He has opened my eyes to see in the Spirit His body the Church. The people He has brought into my life are people He has chosen. He never ceases to amaze me. I am so blessed to be surrounded by the weak as well as the strong. Some parts are more "uncomely" than others. But He has humbled me to accept that and do my part in service to my brothers and also be a beacon to the lost. I have been blessed to have met MANY wonderful serious Christians in my local community and beyond. The Lord has intertwined our lives on many levels. At this stage in my life, my part as wife and mom is important in what God has for me to do. Yet, I am blessed to be used by Him in my place in the local community too. To think that this can be improved on by my following rules of men and the appearance of unity that it could bring is a trap that, God willing, I will not fall into again. FH | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
There is no doctrinal confusion outside of Homestead Heritage in the modern church. Doctrinal confusion exists at HH. Charity has no place in guarding the church against heresy. Cults have mighty committed people, and mighty sincere people. Cults like the "ooo, wow!" factor. Experiences, not the solid Word of God. Experiential religion is a recipe for utter disaster. I know from 30 years of experience in everything from Bible churches to charismatic and covenant churches. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Charity has no place in guarding the church against heresy. Wow! You sound like my pastor. He doesn't mince words either. If only all the elders of local congrigations could take it so seriouly... If this is your gift, (guarding the church,) then of course you will have a zeal much like Paul and Jesus did. They were not worried about hurt feelings and what it would look like if they called names. I do have a tendency to be "charitable." Maybe because I was once lost and now I am found. I feel for those who are given to believe lies, giving up truth for a lifestyle, because I was once one of them. Maybe what I needed was someone who was straight forward and just confronted me with the truth. I don't know. No one ever tried that approach on me when I was in Homestead. For me it was the kindness that brought me to repentance. I think God uses all types. One thing for sure, they are sitting up and taking notice. They can't just ignore you can they? lol. I don't know who you are, and to be honest, at first I was taken back by your boldness. I am starting to accept our differences in expression. Forgive me if you feel I have been too soft. I WILL pray about it. Until God shows otherwise, may He use us each in our own personalities to take the part He has for us. Not ashamed of the truth, but sometimes preferring tact and lacking boldness, FH | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 43 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
FH...I admire you and your writings. I pray that God bless you and reward you for your time spent here to warn people of evil. Please, pray for us in Brazil. Thank you. | ||
| majajh Member Username: majajh Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
Experiential religion uses the Bible to shore up and support its experiences, not the Bible to validate experiences. ForeverHis, you owe no apologies. I'm reluctant to give my background, since it doesn't have a bearing on whether something is true or not, and I dislike boasting. But here goes some boasting, but I do not gloat in it at all, knowing I am a rascal: My wife frequently thanks God for me in her prayers, saying I am "such a good man". My neighbor says I am one of the kindest and most helpful people she has ever met. I told my wife, "Yeah, try getting the people on FactNet to believe that! They'd never believe it!" I'm the oldest of 8 kids, a major in the military, been shot (not in war), have had to run for my life, or worry about getting blown up in Kuwait and Iraq. I've seen more gore and blood than most anybody I know. I have had dealings with nearly every type of person on this earth. I am a good judge of character. I say exactly what I think, and what I believe. I know who I am, and who I am not, and don't care if I'm accused, offended, attacked, or stand alone. If you are my friend, I'll do anything for you, and if you are an enemy, I'll not have mercy on you during a conflict, so the cause can be won. I've been in Bible college under Godly, very well educated men. I have had the best education in the Bible that I can get thanks to the quality of the educators, and self-study. Dowen has demanded to know who I think I am? Well, he wouldn't believe it if I told him why I think I have cause to speak up. I apologize for talking about myself, and sounding like boasting. This is a snapshot of where I am coming from. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 70 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.48.179 |
"I say exactly what I think, and what I believe. I know who I am, and who I am not, and don't care if I'm accused, offended, attacked, or stand alone." That was obvious.  It's nice to know what makes you tick. I am glad you shared that with us. I had been wondering if you were a guy or a gal. Now I know. Your toughness comes honestly. I love reading "about the author" in the sleeves of books, both fiction and non-fiction. There is something to knowing a little about where the prose originated from. I am sure to enjoy going back and re-reading your posts in light of what I know about you. Cool. I can't thank you enough for your service to our country!!! ********************** Missionary Lady, Thank you for the kind words. You and Brazil are in my prayers. FH | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Thank God Brazil was saved from many sorrows due to a direct act of God concerning HH... Everyday we thank God for revealing HHīs real colors... | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Irenaeus, Thanks for adding a little sober-minded consideration here. Please all me to address three points. Irenaeus "looking for something much more meaningfully, serious and substantial than run of the mill Christianity with the same old party lines and all the doctrinal confusion. HH offers something that many are looking for. Singular leadership, and vision, seriously committed people and a very community oriented society with people who do strive for holiness " Amen and amen. This is so critical. Those who take potshots who really have nothing to offer are many. I hope others will consider what you share above before they begin various rants and plaints. What are you doing, Mr. Complainer, Mrs. Accuser, to help overcome these deep, systemic needs in much of what is Christendom today ? You also make some good observations about the need for strong leadership in Christian community and how this has clear and strong Biblical sanction. Again, a simple amen. Whether the doctrinal divide and separation between Trinity and Oneness views of God needs be as great as you say .. I would say no. Often the differences are more in the method of presentation and misunderstanding rather that core beliefs about God and His manifestation through Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. I would be happy to discuss this with you more here or privately (email below) or in other venues. (No, I am not saying there is no distinction, however the actual doctrinal understandings and significance often get hidden under hubris and positioning, rather than a sincere attempt to have a consistent view of scripture.) As for HH in this regard you might also want to actually seek out and read the material from HH on this if you discussing their views. I have read a couple of their books on Messiahology (my term) and learned a lot from them. Some material I believe is in process so I really dunno what is available at the moment. I really do believe that they offer a viewpoint that you might want to consider as distinct from what is considered the standard 'UPC, denominational Oneness' perspective. Shalom, Praxaluh praxeus@bigfoot.com (Message edited by praxaluh on June 24, 2007) | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.242.36.92 |
Titus 1 10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group (referring to those who pushed the Law of Moses, like Homestead Heritage). 11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teachand that for the sake of dishonest gain. 16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good. | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
majidh "There is no doctrinal confusion outside of Homestead Heritage in the modern church." Amazing, spoken like a true and very blinded oppo. And a total falsehood that can be compared with the thoughtful sharing of Irenaeus on the very same thread ! (Irenaeus apparently not supporting HH, yet thoughtful and so far quite sensible.) Everybody else has all doctrine right, every church and fellowship with the hundreds of doctrines. Yet HH has doctrinal confusion, and only HH . Many, many bridges for sale ! Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
What's their doctrine? What does the Bible say about it? | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, Majajh, a new, late study of HH doctrine does not matter one whit to you. Remember you have already judged HH as doctrinally confused and judged that all the Christian churches and fellowships and groups throughout the world as having no confusion of doctrine. Even their multivarious disagreements are harmonious sans confusion ! Plus you have even studied in Bible college and are the world-champion Christian doctrine debater making your word even more sure. (Yes .. a strong dollup of sarcasm intended). Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 46 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
You sound like a full fledged HH damming Majajh OF course we all know you are perfect in your own eyes for whoever would take up for abuse that goes on in HH is very blind...very blind...Prax you should be smarter than your last post... | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 41 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, I rebuke your saying that I am 'damning' Majajh, or anybody. In Jesus name, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Then what are you doing? Sorry if I misread you... | ||
| missionary_lady Junior Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 48 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Would you deny physical abuse beyond anything that has ever been spoken in any public arena has happened at HH? Physical tormenting. Mental assaults of a third world nature. Horrors and Crimes they have been accused of. Would you deny this in the face of things we know that happen and have happened there? What if it is proved without a doubt how will you see yourself before God? Prax, it is no joking matter it is so serious that something WILL be done about it. Where will that leave you? You only know what you are told some have lived this story. Do you know why more remain silent? They carry horrors in their hearts of things they know. Yet they have family there in HH...Once God removes the fear of what may happen to their family they will speak out. Secrets are not kept forever. It is more than do I agree or disagree with HH doctrine. It is not doctrine that even brings me here it is the love for a people that have no voice at all for fear freezes them into silence. Do you think people that have left there have forgotten? No that is not why they are silent in the face of evil and danger. They are silent for the love of those that remain in HH. Do you think I do not know things? Some are afraid of this or that...I cannot be exact on a public forum but fear is fading and the public will find out what goes on behind those gates...wait around a while...truth always comes out. I really donīt think you know what really goes on there. The deceived do not know they are deceived... I stand in horror to know things that have happened in a so called christian community... | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Mrs. Alvear, you sound like you have been brainwashed by the psychobabble people and put aside your own sound mind. In a good segment of the secular world 'child abuse' is defined as any parental discipline like spanking of children. Some of the sicker oppos here try to equate supposed 'abuse' (which can simply be proper Biblical discipline) with molestation. I generally don't comment on their trickery but it is one of the slicker and sicker attempts to smear HH on this forum. They know it generally won't be countered on a forum like this as simply raising and discussing their sick focus is an oppo victory of sorts. Mrs. Alvear does some similar mixing above when she writes about: "Physical tormenting. Mental assaults of a third world nature. Horrors and Crimes they have been accused of..." Mrs. Alvear has itching ears and runs with any possible accusation that comes her way. She has specifically indicated that all accusations against HH that she receives by email are presumed true. For her there is no balance and no need to seek out and know two or three sides of a story, to employ Christian charity, to research in fairness and truth. She herself has spoken untruths and never retracted and apologized for even one. She stands hardened in her belligerance against HH, despoiling her own ministry. All this has put her in a desperate way, and the Lord Jesus would have so much more for her. Notice how the mask of animus, hatred and opposition comes off the oppos. (Often a few try so hard to put on a sweeter, friendlier mask to the readers.) Very significantly they try to hide from the dear readers that there is a wonderful cleanness and holiness before God at HH. Let me say that one more time. It is their deliberate goal (with some exceptions, very important to note, the main one off forum now) to hide from the Factnet readers that HH walks in a true daily holiness of life. The men and women, grown and children, walk in honesty and service and truth and sincerity and a deep sharing one to another, putting others first ahead of self. The Bible way. And there is a ministry that actually deals with sin when its tentacles arise and it crops up in the heart of men and women. (One of the great lacks in so much of Christendom today, a point that dovetails with the recent post of Ireneaus about the weaknesses, the fault line, in modern Churchianity.) They hide that very often people, likely even some oppo posters here, leave HH precisely because they love darkness more than light and wish to remain enmeshed in sin. This I saw too often in my days in HH and it is very sad. So there is no more fellowship between light and darkness. This is all understood by those with a heart and ear for the Spirit of God. The trick of the deceiver, common on this forum, is to try to stain the holy things of God. We saw it before with a ugly falsehood from one poster on the most difficult matters where they could not even properly retract a terrible untruth. We see it over the months and years from one fellow who truly is at war with HH, spurred on by the Watchman org. And now we see the new recent ally in such warfare. Such an impoverished and confused ragtag group, with so little to offer to the those sincerely seeking God. Their lives consumed with fighting the Christian community that to them was a beacon for a good season. And this does makes the Bible history of oppositions clearer, why would folks persecute Christians with such gnashing of teeth ? Why would the greatest opponents be those who left Paul and the apostolic ministries ? And we see similar above in the posts as above by Mrs. Alvear. These are not folks trying to share moved by the Spirit, these are men and women struggling and groping in their own darkness. Rather than trying to properly be fair and honest and true about HH they desire to flip over to the world of railing accusation. Dear readers .. please be awares. Shalom, Praxaluh (Message edited by praxaluh on June 26, 2007) | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Mr Prax You do not even know me only what the leaders of HH tell you. Sad that you would stoop so low. We are not in darkness we are givers of light. We are lifelong missionaries and anyone including you are invited to examine or work and churches. Are we perfect? No...A thousand times no. BUT you will not find us using scare methods, claiming new lights, and writing secret books. MY friend if the Bible is not enough then Joseph Smithīs followers are right saying we need his inspired books to teach us the way. That is a bunch of baloney. Holiness does not consist of hiding away in a village scaring people with threats. Have you so soon forgotten I know about HHīs prophecies, screaming, ranting and ravings. I know about what they do at a dead boys funeral and all their scare tactics. I have been in their finger pointing services. I have watched their leader stomp out mad. I have signed letters of people in "good" standing telling of growing up at HH and what they went through. I have a letter of a pastor in good standing with oneness organizations telling me the horrors he went through. I have letters from people I do not even know and they do not know the ones that have written me all telling of the same abuse stories. How can you sit through something like this and claim Yeshua as your Lord? HH does not scare me or intimidate me. They used their tactics on us and it did not work. They forced Sister Roxie not to take a missionary journey with us because we would not bow to Jesus in the flesh. They can prophecy elsewhere we do not fall for it. You need to know what you speak about. You are not a member and will not be a member. Maybe before the forum closes I should put a few signed letters here. Some I cannot share at this moment but some nothing was said about keeping secret. Donīt you think it is about time for their suffering to end? Donīt you think it is about time they come to know a Jesus that is not fixing to execute you for every failure? Donīt you think it is about time that they can tell the truth and teach their people to tell the truth? Have you forgot I have many of their writings teaching exactly what FH has copied and pasted directly here? You seem to forget many of us have their patterns and not even you live by them... It was the great Apostle Paul that said if someone come preaching any other doctrine other than what he preached that person should be cursed. Could you tell us where Paul said we have to have baptism courses and elders have to decide if the person is ready for baptism? Could you tell us where Paul said to sign some covenant unto death do us part? Could you tell us where Paul told us to lie about what we believe? Could you tell us where Paul taught that mere men and their fleshly ideals become to us Jesus in the flesh? Could you tell us where Paul told us to not go to collage? Could you tell us where Paul told us to beat our children and lock them up like animals? Could you tell us where Paul lorded over people to the point they could not read a newspaper or say a Readers Digest? Could you tell us where Paul lied on people just because they left his group? So these things are holiness and purity to you? Well we have another set of values, my friend. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Prax, your accusations are so unreal. Anyone that knows me and you do not know I love Godīs work, love His people and His world but I will not lie for HH and heir false ways. I saw them living a lie. They lied to me. We are all humans and we may lie not intending to but to deliberately lie is not the mark of a godly leader. | ||
| praxaluh Junior Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, Mrs. Alvear, You do not know my life and my future, so your speaking what I will do next week, month or year, (truly by the grace of God) is simply your own vanity. You should not speak false statements, pseudo-prophecies, about my steps in the days ahead. In fact I have discussed clearly how, if I were to be a closer part of HH in the days ahead, you would simply turn around and use that as a point of attack. Hypocrisy - the winebibbers and ascetic syndrome. Mrs. Alvear, you are consumed with animus against HH and you twist and distort anything you can to support your inquisition. Since you are involved in ministry your aggressive anti-HH involvement is used to give a veneer of legitimacy to the ragtap crew of oppos, who would have a hard time agreeing on enough doctrine and service for an afternoon picnic. Yet some oppos, including the org of the leader, do actually do agree with one thing - that you are a heretic preaching a doctrine of demons in declaring one God in Christ Jesus and the necessity of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Not once has Watchman repudiated his org's desciption of you teaching a 'doctrine of demons' and you could care less - since he allies with you in the anti-HH crusade. I will comment on one thing. You know full well that many churches believe that water baptism should be sanctioned and approved by the ministry. You probably also know that in many churches where this is not done ("let's dunk em") some get baptized and are never seen again. A sad situation. I remember a European oneness pastor (formerly UPC missions) sharing with me how carefully he prepared folks for water baptism in Jesus name and how he would not move ahead without a confirmation in the spirit. Similarly an Asian pastor shared how important was this type of careful consideration before water baptism. Now this may not be your view, however you should at least acknowledge that many, many churches and fellowships consider the sanctity of baptism as very special and very anointed and not to be done lightly just because someone (who you may have never seen before) responds to a call from the alter "who wants to be baptised". Yes, I have seen this occur in churches. There is also the issue of giving testimony at the time of baptism, which is understandable scripturally. So please, if you disagree with the HH view on water baptism, that is your right, but at least have the integrity to acknowledge that this has a wide diversity of views, even in your own spiritual milieu. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
If Jesus walked the earth today what do you think his focus would be? Where would he devote his time and energy? | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
LUKE 19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost. | ||
| h75 New member Username: h75 Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.41.26.146 |
Lewis Sperry Chafer wrote............. Man is prone to disregard the plain boundary lines of distinction between the saved and the unsaved as indicated in the Bible. He is naturally occupied with the temporal things that are seen, and is by nature blind to the eternal things (1 Cr 2:14; 2Cr 4:3, 4; Jhn 3:3) which are not seen. He is inclined to conceive of salvation as resulting from a manner of daily life, both moral and religious, rather than a state wrought by the creative power of God. An appeal for a reformed manner of life is to him "practical" and "reasonable," and he sees little value in the Biblical appeal for personal faith in the saving power and grace of God. A saved person, by his new life from God, may live on a higher plane, and certainly will; but to attempt to live on a higher plain will not, and cannot, impart the new life, or save a lost soul. The unsaved, according to the Bible, include all who have not been accepted by God through a personal trust in the crucified and risen Saviour. All moral and religious people are not, therefore, according to the divine conditions, to be counted among the saved. Paul prayed for Israel "that they might be saved" (Rom 10:1, 2), and those for whom he prayed, it should be remembered, were the very ones of whom he wrote in this same passage that they had "a zeal for God" and went about "to establish their own righteousness." We know, also, that they fasted, and prayed, and gave a tithe of all they possessed; yet, in spite of all this, the faithful, inspired Apostle prays that they might be saved. To be saved was evidently, in the Apostle's mind, more than the diligent effort along the lines of moral and religious practices. | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
Mrs. Alvear, You do not know my life and my future, so your speaking what I will do next week, month or year, (truly by the grace of God) is simply your own vanity. You should not speak false statements, pseudo-prophecies, about my steps in the days ahead. In fact I have discussed clearly how, if I were to be a closer part of HH in the days ahead, you would simply turn around and use that as a point of attack. Hypocrisy - the winebibbers and ascetic syndrome. So, it's not ok for her to predict what you may do in the future, based on her knowledge of your current behavior, but you can predict that she "would simply turn around and use that as a point of attack." And, you know full well that the abuse she is talking about is not spanking! I have said before, the sad things mentioned here happen everywhere. The problem with HH is that they try to hide it and therefore appear to be without the problems. Everything looks so beautiful and safe. Believe me, it's not magical. You join and your kids still have bad attitudes or run off with other kids, there are still marriage problems and divorces, and men still molest their children. I'm not saying those things are rampant or commonplace at HH, but I am saying they happen there just as the do anywhere else. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
usedtobelong, You ask a reasonable question, so please listen carefully to the response. I share that (what Mrs. Alvear would do if I were closer to HH in the time ahead) from lots of experience with folks talking in that manner of arrogance. "Coward..you won't do this or that" And when you turn around and do precisely what they chided, it is almost guaranteed that the response will not be .. "Oh, I was wrong, my deep and sincere apologies, I will examine my heart as to why I was so mistaken and belligerent." but more like (in this case, others are similar) "aha ... look, Prax is brainwashed by HH, a clone and a drone. I told you he was brainwashed .. lol" We know that because that is exactly how Mrs. Alvear speaks about even a dear friend lovingly connected to HH. I speak with real assurance in the Spirit and from reading hundreds of posts that Mrs. Alvear would simply follow the same pattern. And I say such things rarely and carefully. Could I possibly be wrong ? Possibly, I even hope so, but very, very unlikely. (Unless, by the grace of God, Mrs. Alvear really listens to the Holy Spirit, forsakes her warfare against HH,and has a real heart turn in all these matters .. Lord Jesus, may this come to pass.) ============================================== "I'm not saying those things are rampant or commonplace at HH.." No (and you know that HH struggles mightily to have holiness daily within each family .. perhaps one the very finest ministries anywhere in this regards). However that false impression (commonplace) is precisely the impression that the sicker oppos want to give. And if you have any integrity you would rebuke clearly and loudly Jeremy and Majadh and the others in warfare against HH who will distort and lie to the media and the world in that very manner. We have seen it here. You will, even if disagreeing with HH on 100 things doctrinally and socially and culturally, speak in a loud voice defending their desire for Biblical patterns and their earnest zeal and sincerity and holiness. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Sincerity and holiness? Is lying on purpose to protect their image sincerity and holiness, Prax? Remember they did not only LIE to me about the Crows they lied to Real truth and RT quit writing here ove that fact along with many others for even though he did not and does not belong he took up for them... I have the letters he sent me when he was so upset the HW would outright lie to him... I do not call lying holiness or sincerity... | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
I will not speak against Jeremy or the others, because I have not witnessed the events they speak of. If I were to speak against them, and find out later they had been telling the truth I would make quite a fool of myself. I don't disagree with or disprove someone just because you or anyone else tells me to! It is not your place to tell me what would be right for me to do. That is between me and God. I'm tired of people like you acting like you are "in the spirit" and others aren't. Earnest, sincerity, and zeal will not get you to heaven. Having a personal relationship with God is the only thing that will. Even the pharisees tried very hard to please God. But that's just the problem; they tried in and of themselves, relying on their own strength and performance to gain favor in the Lord's sight. Following rules does not make one holy. Only the blood of Jesus applied to one's heart can wash away the filthiness of man and make one worthy of the Life found in Christ. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
only His precious blood...men screaming, pointing fingers in peoples faces, using pressure will never get the job done..Our salvation is because of His gift not ours... | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.206.99.20 |
It takes a moron to follow the golden calf, and hold some man-made institution in as high regard as God. Dang, can't you read? Nope, can't be "pure as the wind-driven snow" Homestead Heritage's fault! It has to be these putrid ridiculers, persecuting God's holy institution (located in the vicinity of Koresh, and probably under the same demonic direction). | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
It is sad Majahi but many of them are not morons they are sweet people but the daily brainwashing has left them in a state of numbness...they no longer know how to reason things for themselves. | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 24.242.36.92 |
I was talking about Prax, in particular. However, if people out there can read a Bible and choose to obey man-made rules, that's moronic. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
If you only knew how it was there...pressure and more pressure and more pressure until the person is no longer a person of choice he becomes a part of a system...with no choice at all... | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
Re-reading my above post I realize I may have come across as harsh to Prax. I didn't mean to sound that way. I'm just fed up with the world as a whole... media, government, churches, etc all trying to tell us what to think, what to do, and when to do it. I have made my decision to stand in Christ and allow Him to direct my steps. I realize there is a place and time for brothers and sisters to warn or correct one another in love, but ultimately one must follow what they feel God is telling them, even if it is contradictory to another's good intentions. | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
Adding to my post above... Earnest, sincerity, and zeal will not get you to heaven. Having a personal relationship with God is the only thing that will. Even the pharisees tried very hard to please God. But that's just the problem; they tried in and of themselves, relying on their own strength and performance to gain favor in the Lord's sight. Following rules does not make one holy. Only the blood of Jesus applied to one's heart can wash away the filthiness of man and make one worthy of the Life found in Christ. While I won't compare HH to these examples, I'd like to explain what I meant... A brief look at history will show that many men have been earnest, sincere, and zealous about many things. Saul persecuted the church, in the name of the Lord, believing what he did was pleasing God. People earnestly and zealously followed Koresh, thinking they were living for the messiah. They were sincere in their friendships, dedicated to their leader, but blind to the fact that he was not who he claimed to be. Many Jews continue to earnestly seek and await the return of the promised one, completely missing the fact that He has come! Muslims are some of the most dedicated people! They pray to their god several times a day and earnestly believe he is THE god. I'm just trying to point out how very easy it is to be sincere, even zealous about the wrong thing. This is why it is so very important for each of us to read and study the Bible for ourselves, and not rely on the interpretations and views of others only. Being personally responsible for my faith, actions, and what I do with the gift of Life given to me by God is enough to keep me from depending on others to hear God for me, or tell me what He means in His word. Yes, I consider other's views, but will never again rely on them for my salvation! (continued below) | ||
| usedtobelong New member Username: usedtobelong Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.51.55.80 |
When telling people my story, of where I came from, I'm often asked how I, an intelligent person, could have been so easily blinded and caught up in such outrageous misinterpretations of the Bible. It's easy my friend, very easy. Allow yourself to be distracted for one moment and see how easily it is to follow the distraction and forget where you once were. This happens in churches all over the world. People join because they've found something new, something exciting! The speaker or leader is "on fire" and so dedicated and zealous about what he's teaching. The people are all in it together. It's so different and wonderful compared to their previous dry way of life. Then it happens. They forget that they used to read the Bible every evening because they're so busy reading this guy's literature, or his list of "recommended reading" by some other guy. They forget they used to sit around the dinner table and talk about what God did in their lives today or have morning devotions as a family, because they are busy at some church function. They lose sight of the preciousness of being still and quiet and letting God speak to their hearts because they are too busy with all this new stuff. Literature is good. Church functions can be edifying and uplifting. Charisma has it's place. But, when it gets in the way of our everyday walk with God it becomes: "too much of a good thing can be a bad thing." Philippians 4:7 (NIV) And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. We can only have the peace of God by walking daily with Him. If we don't have that, our guard is down and we are open to distractions on every side. No matter where you are, remember this. ~ usedtobelong ~ Acts 11:23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi UTB, My challenging you above wasn't really an expectation that you would jump and condemn some of the unrighteous oppo actions. You are new here and have your own stuff to sort out and would prefer to avoid a crossfire. Understood. (In that sense I may have been a bit harsh as well.) Consider it more a sharing, a warning, that all is not right in oppo-land and that it is best to be very slow to entertain the realm of embellishment and selective rememberance and strident accusation that characterizes the oppos. And be aware that the mask is off, they really are in (a very dubious and unfortunate) warfare as the more bald-faced ones declare. And I believe God has much better, far far better, for you and many others who are seeking to properly learn and share and are hungry for the things of God. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
If a person will listen to God and carefully read His word even though like us you may be carried away with something God is faithful to reveal menīs real intentions. I am glad He did it for us or we would have messed up our lives and the lives of those we associate with forever. Everyday I thank the Lord He kept us from being decieved. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 71 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Scarry music starts and you hear the narrating voice of Alford Hitchcock: warning...unrighteous oppo actions... all is not right in oppo-land ...entertain the realm of embellishment... selective rememberance... strident accusation that characterizes the oppos. (scary music gets louder here) *And be aware* that the mask is off, they really are in (a very dubious and unfortunate) warfare as the more bald-faced ones declare. Na, Na, Na-na. Na, Na, Na-na. Na, Na, Na-naaaa You have entered the twilight zone. Prax, Prax, Prax.... lol, roflol. You cracked me up. Thank you Judge Prax for the laugh. Have a fortunate and UNdubious weekend all.  May it be free of strident acusations characterized by harsh, insistent, and discordant sound or those commanding attention by a loud or obtrusive quality.  FH | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Boy, am I in a good mood or what? We just got back from a forth of July celebration that included beautiful fireworks and as I was driving home I tearfully thanked God that I was born in America. I thought, as imperfect as this country is, I am still blessed that this is where I was born and raised. God Bless America, FH | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 70.184.236.135 |
That was good! Signed, Ol' so and so (I'm too tired to dream up big words today). | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, And yet everything I shared above is simply very accurate and true. And especially meant for consideration by our newbie poster. Appreciate the reiteration by FH. Shalom, Praxaluh | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 73 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
"And yet everything I shared above is simply very accurate and true." "oppos... entertain the realm of embellishment... selective remembrance... " Were you there? NO. You are more mature than that! Certainly you do not expect readers to believe YOU know more about our own experiences in Homestead Heritage than we do when you were not even there. Where do you get your information? From men who believe it is ok to use deception to protect the group? Since you know so much, tell us: Does Homestead Heritage believe that covenant members make with them is THE New Covenant and is necessary for salvation? Also, If the member breaks the covenant, his salvation is endangered? Or does Homestead Heritage believe their covenant is another covenant? Also, If the member breaks the covenant, his salvation is endangered? According to Homestead Heritage, is submission to a "tangible authority" of Jesus still coming in the flesh necessary for salvation? If so, how does this save you? Have you read "Order of Perfection" books one and two, or "By What Authority"? FH | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Oh, please, FH. I have seen you do much worse than embellish. You told a terrible untruth and you simply could not at all properly correct yourself on this forum. You spun and embellished and obfuscated and tried everything but simply speaking the truth. It is very clear, trivially obvious, that the oppos spin virtually everything they say through their anti-HH spin-meter. Oh.. let me take this out from the story, its embarrassing, it demonstrates the rebellion before God and might give better context to what really occurred. Let me ferget for now my motives when I visited the land, or the motives of my spouse that brought forth the ministry. And let me combine words here to craftily and falsely accuse of molestation or of murder. And Let me change the wording of something from HH here so it sounds like they are a Jonestown cult. This abomination goes on and on. Folks in this mode simply desire to accuse, they succumb to a spirit of railing accusation. (And to be fair, there was one poster who walked softly to avoid falling into these traps. Yes, very much in opposition, yet constrained by the Holy Spirit in speech. No longer posting here though.) This vitriol road of the oppos is one that has the sense of dead men walking, spiritual corpses, rattling bones. Yes I know those are very strong words, however a cleansing is really needed in heart and attitude by each and every one of this core oppo cabal, who not only succumbed to the Watchman psycho-babble junque but took it to heart as their own self-justification and run with it downhill. After a cleansing there might be a sincere place of sharing and questioning and discussion and searching. Could this be right ? What is the best community patterns ? How do Christian communities best function ? What is my sotierology perspective, what does the Bible teach, what is the lowest common denominator taught in so many churches, what is the HH view ? And much more .. my experiences, concerns, seeking, Lord Jesus .. pour forth of your Spirit. In Jesus name, Praxaluh | ||
| praxaluh Member Username: praxaluh Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Took a nice walk, to share a bit more .. why the depth of concern ? Follow along .. Here we have a true Christian community, living in daily holiness, crisp and clean before God with the families and individuals and work places and more. A beacon for folks from all different suasions. I know of folks who deeply look to HH .. oh, Lord Jesus, bring some of that oil of gladness to pass in my life, in my church, in my community. Folks from church backgrounds, Pentecostal and Messianic and Baptist and already community-oriented like historic Adventist and Mennonite and more, even secular-influenced folks trying to understand Christianity in a more earnest daily visceral, living way. Folks who worked with HH for awhile, visitors from far away, non-members and yes some of the ex-members, all who firstly look to HH with respect and honor and hopefulness and friendship. Then you have many questions that may arise. We don't share this doctrine. You emphasize this in the Bible and we emphasize that. Can this aspect you teach be biblical ? Was that done perfectly ? I was told that such-and-such is heresy. Is this enough freedom, what are the boundries of demarcation between individual freedom and community liberty and responsibility and holiness ? Many questions, many concerns, many interests. Asked fairly, they can be solid and legitimate questions. The ones for whom it is the hardest often are the ex-members. Hurt, perhaps dazed and confused by the experience, looking for a pat answer, they become marks for spiritual charlatans in some cases. In other situations they may actually redouble their zeal for God and get to a new place. Perhaps that will rekindle their relationship with HH, or perhaps they never see that occurring. However God is fully in control. What we have here for the most part is not moving in any of these directions. There is a real darkness at work, which I alluded to some in the previous post. Enough said on that. What I am sharing and asking is simple. Seek and find a better way. God is not mocked, this is not a little game where you blithely through out terrible accusations and turn around with a little smile and say 'what, me worry ?'. These are deep and earnest and powerful things of God of which some are trying to seek and share. Seek holiness, guard your tongue, in everything give thanks. Philippians 1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Yours in Jesus name, Praxaluh | ||
| common_sense New member Username: common_sense Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 75.31.166.114 |
Here we have a true Christian community, living in daily holiness, crisp and clean before God with the families and individuals and work places and more. How do you know this? When was the last time you visited? Have you lived among them as one of them? How can you assert your opinions as fact and FH's descriptions as fabrications? What makes you the moderator of truth and holiness? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
So sad Prax is so wrong...I long for the day the scales fall from his eyes but it will not be until......... | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Prax, you are dreaming. You are accusing US of believing what we want, while YOU do not realize you believe what YOU want. Are you saying we are biased but the people, who are feeding you your information, (because you were not there,) are not biased? You say we have a motive for our biased memories. Do you think they do not? In my opinion, you have chosen to deny the obvious, that all is not right in [HH] -land . You know them, or at least think that you do. I wish you knew me. I am far from perfect, but I think if you had ever met me you could not believe I am the witch that you want to believe I am. Because I tell you what you do not want to hear, I am your enemy. I know I can not convince you otherwise, but I can wish. I wish you knew how much I love people I left behind. I wish you knew how much I worry for them. I wish you knew how years I prayed for them. I wish you knew what really goes on behind the curtain that preserves the power of a few over the lives of many. I hate to wish it on anyone, but maybe you do need to join and experience the current form of Homestead government yourself. I wish you knew how much I have not told. If I told, the details would personally expose the lives of people I love in Homestead. I am not willing to do that anymore than I have too. I have mostly dealt with my own experiences and with the doctrines of Homestead. I have mentioned some of their practices and given examples with little detail in order to personally protect those involved. It became necessary to tell more with the Kelly Blake case and most of that was already public record. With much of the things I could have mentioned, but have not the public would never know who I was talking about. BUT...the leaders would know who I was talking about. It would bring the leaders down on the members involved. I want to protect them from the "ministry" [sic] that they would receive from the leaders as Homestead tries to cover their backsides. I have seen that ministry be abusive and I do not bring that on them. I wish you knew how much I detest a lie or falsehood in any form. If you can convince me that I have told a lie I will repent openly. From our previous conversations I am guessing you are alluding to the DS case. If you want to discuss the DS case and what I have said and not said, I will do it on that thread. http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=384045#POST384045 | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 63.226.106.50 |
Prax, a lot of words, but, what in the world did you just say? Wordy, yet no substance to the two posts. By the way, what makes the golden calf (HH) worthy of adoration, and holy protection, like a Catholic shrine to the Virgin? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 76 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
For some people Jesus is not enough that is why idol worship makes godmakers rich... | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 77 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
One thing Prax said tha rang a bell...God is not mocked...Those words are a warning to people who think they are Jesus in the flesh...My friend God is not mocked. HH has a lot of reaping to do. Man making himself God to others is mocking God. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Hold on now Maja, you are making some serious accusations. Are you really trying to compare someone's support of HH to Catholic idolatry? That is one serious stretch dude! Go back and read some of my first postings here. I made it very clear that I am not here to defend HH. I am only here to defend the Truth. I have done my homework, and so far, EVERY accusation that has been presented against HH is easily proven false. I don't expect any of you to believe me, and I don't care. The Truth is the Truth. Deal with it. Accept it, deny it, do whatever you choose. There is a payday someday. My time is worth more to me than to spend it wrangling with arrogant and judgmental folks like you Majajh. You have everything all figured out. Your intellect is far superior to anyone else's. You know what it is to be a "real" Christian. In fact, in your mind, you are god. No one is greater than you! No is smarter than you! Therefore it is pointless to argue any further with an egotistical maniac like you. If you were to ever show a bit of humility, then I might give your post's a tad more consideration. 'Til then, you are little more than an arrogant know it all who's type I can find at every hookup bar or roadside tavern in Texas. Good luck in life, and just remember, it's lonely at the top... DOwen. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 232 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.109 |
So the biggest problem you have missionary lady is that the HH teach that men can actually become Jesus in the flesh...is that true? Is that written in their creed somewhere or are you assuming that...or taking that out of context... I lived in South America for 8 years...are you in Brazil? Don't you have bigger cults to fight over there...lot's of voodoo and witchcraft seems much more dangerous then a bunch of Amish types who work with wood..Bom Noite (Message edited by rachelengland on July 03, 2007) | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.109 |
WOW DOwen- that is whacky that both of us just came to this thread..are we participating in mind reading(lol). | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Maybe... But I have my doubts. Take care, DOwen. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Here is an awesome site that conspiracy buffs like Maja and ML should seriously look into. http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ I hear Wal*Mart is running sale on aluminum foil...... | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 87 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
No my friend other than Jim Jones the most dangerous thing I personally have been around is HH. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 111 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
What about fireworks ML?... Ever hold one of them little Lady Fingers til almost blowed your lips off? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 88 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.13.212.39 |
I rescue souls ... | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
You work in a shoe repair place? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 113 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
You work in a shoe repair place? | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.13.192.236 |
I rescue souls from the shanty towns, the leper colonies, children from the streets of Brazil. What do you do besides goof off? No to your question most of our people in the backlands do not have shoes to repair... | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 114 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
Praise God they've got wireless in them there shanty towns and leper colonies, so you can keep up the good fight of faith! I do a lot of things, but I would certainly say that goofing off is one of my primary areas of focus and expertise, as my God has given me all things richly to enjoy. Here's some of the things I do... I like to pontificate about other men's ministries. I enjoy performing character assasination on ministers. I like to exalt myself into a position of high regard by choosing usernames that demonstrate that I am a minister and called by God. I like to recite my good works on internet forums so that I can get my reward here on earth, I hate those idiots that wait to get their reward in heaven... | ||
| majajh New member Username: majajh Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 71.216.238.200 |
That's the accusation I level against Homestead Heritage. It is the object of adoration, devotion, and is protected as a god. | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.13.189.8 |
I happen to be writing yesterday and today from town in an office. Yes I do have internet at my house not wireless but I can get on the net. Most places I minister I cannot some areas do not have phone service let alone internet but where I live is a typical costal city and yes I live in a modern home in case you want to know my personal life. I am not a god in fact I am very human so human that I write on this board in my spare time to warn people of evil and bondage. SGNG what do you do in your spare time except goof off? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 116 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
I am a modern day Berean... Do you have any evil or bondage that you would like to warn me of? In your spare time, of course. "in case you want to know my personal life". No, that is not my desire at this time, although it would appear in my role as modern day Berean we would have much in common. For instance... discrediting, undermining, being suspicous, self-righteous, egocentric, ethnocentric, mean-spirited, critical, etc. I must change my name to "teacherevangelist_man" at my earliest opportunity. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 117 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.11 |
"No my friend other than Jim Jones the most dangerous thing I personally have been around is HH." Good warning, I've heard that instead of ushers they have ninjas! And that their Meals on Wheels ministry poisons old people! And HH people cross the street without looking! And the pastor swims right away after eating, instead of waiting a half-hour! And the choir plays with matches! And the youth pastor changes light bulbs without turning off the power first! And I heard someone did a repair on the building without safety goggles on! The catcher on the church softball team played a game last week without a cup on! These people live on the edge, they are every bit as dangerous as Missionary Lady says! | ||
| terluvire Intermediate Member Username: terluvire Post Number: 206 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 70.15.2.34 |
Hi Dowen, I hope all is well with you. SGNG, I love reading your posts. You certainly have a way with words...lol Keep up the good work. | ||
| terluvire Intermediate Member Username: terluvire Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 70.15.2.34 |
First off I would like to say that I know nothing about HH, but I do know what our Father states on how we should behave. I must say, I don't know where Christians get the idea that their mission is to persecute other Christians. Is this what our Lord and Savior taught?? Is this what he did? NO. He put the truth out there and it is up to the individual to accept it or not. If one disagrees, they should kick the dust off their feet and move on. Did Christ follow anyone around trying to convince them he had the truth? NO. No where in our Father's word are we told to brow beat anyone into believing as us. Our commission is to spread the gospel period. If anything, it was the pharisees which followed Jesus around accusing him every chance they got. I see many here at FN which follow the ways of the pharisees as opposed to following what Jesus actually taught. Any Christian who follows Jesus would obey him, but I see many who willfully disobey him. They do not kick the dust as they are instructed. | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 54 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Hey Ter, I am great, thanks for asking. I hope you are doing well also. Everyday is an adventure, and I wouldn't want it any other way. You said; "I must say, I don't know where Christians get the idea that their mission is to persecute other Christians. Is this what our Lord and Savior taught?? Is this what he did? NO." Amen and amen. We are all humans, and all humans have problems and faults, but to politicize those faults or perceived problems is reprehensible. "I see many here at FN which follow the ways of the pharisees as opposed to following what Jesus actually taught." Yes, and Jesus dealt pretty harshly with pharisees like Maja and ML. It's kind of comical how they try and turn that around on us isn't it? Maja's brand of religion is violently opposed to ML's brand of religion, yet for some reason, he gives her a pass here on FACTNet... Hmmm. I wonder why. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Politics makes for some strange bedfellows doesn't it?} | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 83 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Hey DOwen, It has been a while. I am glad you are back. Maybe You can answer these questions for the reader: Does Homestead Heritage believe that covenant members make with them is THE New Covenant and is necessary for salvation? Also, If the member breaks the covenant, his salvation is endangered? Or does Homestead Heritage believe their covenant is another covenant? Also, If the member breaks the covenant, his salvation is endangered? According to Homestead Heritage, is submission to a "tangible authority" of Jesus still coming in the flesh necessary for salvation? If so, how does this save you? | ||
| dowen Member Username: dowen Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 67.9.93.81 |
Does Homestead Heritage believe that covenant members make with them is THE New Covenant and is necessary for salvation? Also, If the member breaks the covenant, his salvation is endangered? I cannot speak for HH, but I can share what I believe. And simply put, if Jesus speaks to your heart and tells you to do something, and you don't do it, then yes, your Salvation is in jeopardy. I know that Jesus called my dad to HH, and I know that for him, not being a part of HH would mean being outside of God's will for his life. I also know that for you to judge his walk with God to be wrong, is pompous and arrogant beyond description. Which is why I keep coming back to the "Who do you think you are???" question. Is God not great enough to deal with HH as He sees fit? Why must you continue to insert your arrogant assumptions about my family and their Church? Nothing drives obsession like conviction and guilt... | ||
| missionary_lady Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 96 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
question not answered... | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 86 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
"I cannot speak for HH, but I can share what I believe. And simply put, if Jesus speaks to your heart and tells you to do something, and you don't do it, then yes, your Salvation is in jeopardy." And if Jesus was to tell the man it's time to go.... Homestead literature says his salvation is in Jeopardy if he leaves. Homestead Literature says God speaks to him through those in authority in the group... that he can not trust his "desperately wicked heart." He will be accused of leaving in order to live sinfully even if that is not true. He can hear God to get in... but he can't hear him to get out? You might think, "Well God would never tell Him to do both." But I wouldn't say that. Even so, how do you know that man wasn't mistaken when he thought God told him to join, and has to be mistaken when he hears God tell him to leave? Homestead Heritage looks good from the outside. The love bombing of visitors, the security of the group especially for your children, the good old days lifestyle, the appearance of new testament living, the dedication in the people, the idea of being apart of a unique society and the pride that can accompany it, not knowing what they really believe at the beginning... It wasn't hard for me to believe God wanted me there. It was a mistake easily made, and a hard one to admit to later. But then I had the doctrines and the fears to overcome before I could see and hear the warnings God was sending me all along. Can you afford me the same mercy? Can you believe that I had to leave, and now years later I have to speak out because I believe it is God's will for me to do so? If I truly believe this is God's will for me, and I don't speak out, will I lose my salvation? Sincerely, FH | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 104 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
I join you my friend I too must speak out against a system that destroys. I am so tired of people that send me letters telling me all kinds of things but tremble to speak out. I have made lots of mistakes in my life and one of them was believing what HH told me but I am not a coward. I lift my cry against a place that uses Godīs name for their own ego. I hear pleading voices begging me to cry out because like people of the past they are afraid to cry out. | ||
| foreverhis Member Username: foreverhis Post Number: 88 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.176.54.69 |
Dear Sister, I understand the tiredness. I want to encourage you. Do not grow weary in well doing. Please bare with the people who may seem like cowards. Many of these people had their lives more deeply affected by Homestead Heritage. You are an experienced missionary who has seen the mighty work of God for many years. Your boldness comes from your experience in the faithfulness of God in extreme circumstances on the mission field. Many of these people have not had that experience. Instead they have had years and years of heart ache and disappointment from men who claimed to be God's ministers. It took me MANY years to overcome my fear of these men and what they might do. The healing came, then years of experiences in God faithfulness, and then the call and the boldness to go with it. First the Glass House Breaks, then the ruble of deception has to be sorted through. Just when you think your done and can walk away, you see the monster rise out of the ruble and you realize the danger that lived inside the Glass House. Some people run for awhile, but when they are ready, God will call them to double back and face the monster. Until that time we have to be there when they need a sounding board and let God bring about the warrior in His own time. Please let the heart ache of knowing more of the suffering increase your fervency in prayer and your steadfastness in your stand. Thank the Lord that our experience in Homestead allows us to understand and feel compassion. God is using what the enemy meant for evil, for good in helping others who went through it. Just listening and praying specific prayers for them can help more than we can imagine. We don't want to give them the impression that they are a burden we are not willing to carry. Believe me, them just writing to you takes courage. It is a beginning that should be encouraged. May God richly bless you and your ministry. Please convey the love of God I feel for you and your family who stands by you, to them. FH | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 189.3.11.119 |
Thank you for such kind words. You are right. I am praying for more people to step forward, I have had 2 new people contacting me the last few days about HH. I just wish more would stand up and be counted but they are so fearful. Their e mails bother me and some drive me to my knees in tears. It is 4 in the morning here we are two hours ahead of you...I had a full day yesterday and havenīt been to bed. Had a lot of typing to do for the evening service. Our sign choir has a special part in tomorrowīs service and a group of Catholics are coming to join a song the teacher has taught the Catholic youth and our youth. It should be very beautiful and touching. For some coming with her it will be their first time in a Christian church. We look forward to blessing and being blessed. Thanks once again for your kind words. Sister Janice Alvear | ||
| not_scared New member Username: not_scared Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 75.116.52.106 |
wow the trolls have been here lately! dowen who cares what you believe, most are here to talk about hh. so it is wrong for others to talk about people in hh, but ok for you to talk about folks on fn? and yes fh they do say you cannot have salvation if you leave the fellowship. i was called there and i was also called to leave. but i was divorcing them in doing so. so who to obey God or men? | ||
| majajh Junior Member Username: majajh Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 206.107.134.3 |
We've all said our piece. Are you two fellas ready to stop posting, and I will stop (and maybe someone else too?) If not, I'm sure we can go round and round for a while longer. Speak up- I've asked before. | ||
| missionary_lady Intermediate Member Username: missionary_lady Post Number: 189 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 172.129.132.60 |
I will keep posting until I see God bring victory to those that are bound... |
