| Author | Message | ||
     davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
I am so thankful for the life of Yahshua in the Twelve Tribes. I am here at our community in Asheville; many of my friends have gone to one of our wonderful weddings at the community in Chattanooga. The goats are frolicking in their pen outside. I have been thinking all morning how deeply thankful I am for this Life I have here, that I came into through the mercy of Yahshua 3 1/2 years ago. What a wonder it is. For so, so long, I lived with a divided heart, among people with divided hearts. For so long, I found myself unable to find and keep real friends. For so long I was unable to live up to the simple desire for love and unity that was so clearly the desire for me of the One who gave His life for me...Yahshua the Lamb of God. I find myself amazed at how that has all changed. It amazes me because I know how desperately faulty I am; and how faulty my friends here are. Yet somehow, we have been given the Spirit shed abroad in our hearts that gives us the power to actually love each other. To trust each other with our very lives each day. To actually surrender to each other, and live for each other. And keep on doing it, and not divide, no matter what. Some leave, of course. Some end up here on Factnet, blaming everyone but themselves for it. But most stay. This life is a threshing floor, specifically designed by our Father to separate the wheat from the chaff. Beat it, throw it up in the wind...the wheat falls at our Master's feet and stays here, while the wind blows the insubstantial chaff away. The threshing floor of our life drives away the insincere who come among us; it also drives the insincerity and fatal flaws from the hearts of those who stay...as we grow in trust and wisdom to let ourselves be separated from those bad things. I live with a man named Sameach, and his wonderful wife Zimrah. They came into our communities 34 years ago, when she was 18 and he was 22. They have raised their children in this life and they love our life and they are some of the most wonderful people on earth. I love the people I live with. They are the best friends on earth. They are finding out who I really am...and what my deep flaws are (which are many), and amazingly, they still love me, showing extreme patience and long-suffering as they help me to be healed and become like our Master Yahshua. I love that we are truly building our Father's Kingdom together. I love that we live for each other and can forget about ourselves because God takes care of us through our friends. I love being under good authority. I love suffering for the sake of love and unity. I love the morning and the evening sacrifice. I love the people I live with. I love the way we are separated from the world. I love the Sabbath, and the Resurrection Celebration. I love that we are now a nation of twelve tribes. I love that we work hard six days a week for a high purpose. I love that we are now learning to keep the feasts of YHWH. I love our life. I really, truly love it. It is astounding to me to be able to wake up in the morning, at one within myself, knowing that my heart is not divided; that I don't have to try to serve God and money...that I don't have to live entangled in the affairs of worldly life...but I can live from my heart, to love my God and my friends with my whole heart, soul, mind and strength....and need not give a thought to anything else. I love that I am being saved, and I see my friends being saved, from all that would hold us back from doing that fully. What a miracle. The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" Sincerely, David Derush of the Twelve Tribes communities david@parchmentpress.net | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
David, I do not feel any anger toward you, but I must speak the truth: your post above is not exactly just a confession, it's propaganda to further your group's agenda. Why do this here? | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.30.68.151 |
IT'S BECAUSE HE HAS A BEAM IN HIS I! | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
a beam in his I? What do you mean by that sol? | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 173 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.30.68.151 |
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I | ||
| bluewater2 Senior Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 1609 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.75.252.89 |
"I love the way we are separated from the world." Except for the internet, that is! | ||
| dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1065 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.224.167.26 |
I wonder if everyone in the TT has access to the internet bluewater. David, I have repeatedly asked you questions on several threads, why is it that you never answer me? I would like to challenge you to a debate regarding your belief that you have found the one true way, and how community living in a religious organization such as yours can be very destructive and harmful to children who are raised there. | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.30.68.151 |
Hippiecrits! There's some quite delusional thinking on DD post and I don't have time right now to address these issues. Some leave but most stay? C'mon DD isn't it more like, most leave and some stay? Are you that cowardly that you have to hide behind the doctrinal wall of a self-righteuos group? Why not have an open forum on your website? Are you so afraid of the truth and wanna keep everything in the dark about the real experiences people have had with this group? And when you do have open forums you bring all the hardcore doctrine doctors in your group and leave the newbies at home. Don't they have the Holy Sirit too? You'd rather be all wrong together than one person speaking what's true. I'm here to tell you that Messiah already did that, and do you think if he comes to you and rejects your hippiecritical doctrine you will love him so? Your group has many spirits that are deep-rooted in sinful men and this group cannot save anyone! See John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. What you have is mostly hippiecrits banded together for the love of doctrine,principles and judging everyone, which Jesus said not to do. | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 669 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.218.60 |
Separated from the world? In a pigs eye! They have multi-million dollar industries and real estate deals. If thats not, in their own words, "Riding the back of the Beast", I dont know what it is. If you all didnt notice, David Alexander("THE GREAT") didnt bother to answer my thread question about "riding the back of the beast" awhile back because he knows they speak with a forked tounge! Hissssssss...... | ||
| julieanne New member Username: julieanne Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 85.210.24.11 |
just because we left does not mean we are insincere david. i too loved the life i had in the community i still do and i miss it. everyday it's on my mind i can't let go of it. i really felt like i'd found my true home at last, however, after a while i came to realise the life i heard about was not the life i was living. the people i lived with were sadly not the best friends i ever had. friends are people who love you for who you are without wanting to change everything about you, you can go to friends when you're having a bad day pour out your heart and know that they're going to give you a hug and tell you everythings going to be ok not summon the shepherds and spend hours lecturing you that you just need to die. when you go to a friend and pour out your heart because you just found out that the shepherd you trusted with your life has lied to you, a friend will talk it through with you and give you advice not spend ages talking to you about it supposedly sympathising with you and then go and betray your confidence by going straight to another shepherd and telling them exactly what you said resulting in you once again being hauled over the coals and being told you just need to die. of course nothing was said to the shepherd who lied. and i agree with dream truth anyone with kids needs to really think about what they're doing before making this choice for them. my kids were a mess because of this i nearly lost one son completely and the other one developed OCD as a way of coping. i was only there a while i can't imagine what it must be like for those born into the community. i'm totally messed up now i really don't know what to do or where to go i don't even know if i believe in God anymore. i warn anyone thinking of going it's really easy to get involved with the tribes its not so easy to get uninvolved. i've been out 18 months and i'm still lost when i sing the words that come out of my mouth are community songs, when i buy clothes i still check the label to see if it's made of natural fibres, i still drink water from a nalgene bottle, i have salad with everything, millet for breakfast and i crave mat`e like you wouldn't believe(well you would if you'd lived there) somedays i really have to fight to stop myself picking up the phone to call them i have to keep reminding myself of all the reasons why i left. | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.30.68.151 |
Ok commune members would you all please turn to your Bibles and read Matthew 13:57. What does it say? Does it say Jesus or Yashua? If it says Jesus you should all be banned by communal standards. People all over the world know the name of Jesus Christ and know it's the same man who died and rose again on the third day.A very, very,small fraction of 1/6 billionth have hear of the commune and that's a blessing. AMEN! | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 476 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.248.199.71 |
"Some leave, of course. Some end up here on Factnet, blaming everyone but themselves for it. But most stay." I don't believe this is true, is it? Can someone help clarify this issue for me? I am under the impression that many, if not most people eventually leave. I have heard the figure put at 30,000 ex-members? Perhaps I am getting this wrong. Help me here. | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 477 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.248.199.71 |
Julieanne, Your story touched my heart. I am sorry you are suffering so. I'll pray for you. | ||
| faye2 Member Username: faye2 Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.52.201.16 |
Me too Julieanne. I can totally relate to everything you wrote.  | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 251 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
Anonemus, you are "getting it wrong". In order for there be 30,000 ex-members, together with those who are in our life, we would have had to immerse an average of 1,000 people a year into a covenant with our Master Yahshua. We would have had to immerse an average of 84 people a month, every month for the last 33 years. Read the ITN's that are now publicly accessible...and you will see the average even over recent years, when we are much larger than formerly, is probably less that 10 percent of that. My own experience, in living in our communities in Lancaster, NH, and in our communities in Southern California, is that more come in than leave. This is common sense, since we have been growing steadily for 30 years. Where I have been, during the time I have been there, about 20 people have come into our life. I have seen maybe 10 leave. Of the ten I saw leave, four have come back and are still with us to this day. Love believes the best about people...especially about people as obviously good hearted as the wonderful people that have given everything up for love, to live a life of love in the Twelve Tribes. Accusing spirits, on the other hand, ignore the positive, and accentuate the faults of our life, to try to tear it down and make it something other than what it actually is. What it actually is, is the only place and people on earth that I was able to find in a lifetime of searching, where the faith and life being lived out daily, substantially lines up with the commands and way of Christ. For the first time in a long life of desiring it, I can read the Sermon on the mount (Matt. 5,6,7), the text of Messiah's last supper conversation with his disciples before going to the cross (John 13,14,15,16,17) and the first epistle of John....and know that the life I am living with my friends substantially lines up with what I am reading. How precious is that? There are no words for how precious that is to me. I would rather suffer here to live this life of love with my friends, than have any other life on the face of the earth. Julieanne, if you want to email me privately, I would be glad to respond to what you posted. My email is david@parchmentpress.net Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 478 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.248.199.71 |
"Accusing spirits, on the other hand, ignore the positive, and accentuate the faults of our life, to try to tear it down and make it something other than what it actually is." Thank you for your reply, David. I wasn't accusing but asking a question. I also said that "perhaps, I am getting this wrong." I thought I remembered Michael Painter and James Howell using those figures.. perhaps it was former members AND visitors. I will look at the tape, again, to get it straight. Thank you. | ||
| mrs_chi New member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.191 |
dear david derush, i have known the tt for 19 years. i have lived there, visited, have friends inside and out here who have been there far longer than you. i will now respond to some parts of your letter: "I find myself amazed at how that has all changed. It amazes me because I know how desperately faulty I am; and how faulty my friends here are. Yet somehow, we have been given the Spirit shed abroad in our hearts that gives us the power to actually love each other. To trust each other with our very lives each day. To actually surrender to each other, and live for each other. And keep on doing it, and not divide, no matter what." well.. this is easy to believe on a surface level, however, i know you all strive to be this way though there is much division among you. i once asked two shepherds the same question and got two different answers. when i asked them why this was so, i was yelled at and accussed of trying to divide them. they both still held to their opposite answers and i was never treated kindly again by either of them unless they needed something. "Some leave, of course. Some end up here on Factnet, blaming everyone but themselves for it. But most stay. This life is a threshing floor, specifically designed by our Father to separate the wheat from the chaff. Beat it, throw it up in the wind...the wheat falls at our Master's feet and stays here, while the wind blows the insubstantial chaff away." is there a new teaching that has given you the authority to judge who is chaff and unsubstantiel?? one of the last teachings i heard, yoneq clearly said you were not to judge who is what concerning this. "The threshing floor of our life drives away the insincere who come among us; it also drives the insincerity and fatal flaws from the hearts of those who stay...as we grow in trust and wisdom to let ourselves be separated from those bad things." i know this is what you are told often enough. i was too. "I live with a man named Sameach, and his wonderful wife Zimrah. They came into our communities 34 years ago, when she was 18 and he was 22. They have raised their children in this life and they love our life and they are some of the most wonderful people on earth." yes, samaech can be very wonderful. two very good friends of mine in the community lived with him pretty much from the beginning. i spent some time with him and found him to be more lawless and free than most government folks and that was impressive. he had no problem with fried chicken and white dough pizza and benadryll. i find most of the oldtimers have found a comfortable spot for their own life and live very well. if i am not mistaken samaechs children are still there unlike most of the elders from his time. i could be wrong. alot of children left while i was there and many more since i have left. | ||
| mrs_chi New member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.191 |
i remember in a teaching once yoneq said if we ever begin loosing our children then we know we have failed, or missed the mark somehow and it meant our fathers hand has withdrawn from us. well.. i guess he was either wrong or didn't actually believe in his own words that god spoke to him.. this always did confuse me. i once asked someone in government about it and was told they weren't sure what was going on with that. later i was reprimanded for questioning authority. "I love that we are truly building our Father's Kingdom together. I love that we live for each other and can forget about ourselves because God takes care of us through our friends." yes this is a good ideal however, the deteriorating health of many is prevelant among you. many are sick and you know this is true. "I love being under good authority." what about bad authority? "I love suffering for the sake of love and unity." how do you suffer? kahauls? "I love the morning and the evening sacrifice." this was interesting. everyone said they did, yet out of 50 to 100 people at the minchos only 4 or 5 would speak much of the same words you did in your opening statement, usually the same 4 or 5 people in every gathering(and some very longwinded men) and most of the others complained throughout the week of being tired and the mornings to early to gather and how longwinded this one is or how that one always says does the same, etc...etc... "I love that we are now a nation of twelve tribes." so the race has began? those who have left may never return and are condemned? when will the tribes repent/yom kippor? i remember when i had been there about 3 months and found that most of the long time members had undergrounds, favortism in government, constant complaints and what they appeared to be when yoneq was present among us was totally opposite of what they were when he was not. after being there for over a year i began to see the fruit of fear and law instead of love and truth. i am glad you are on this forum. i do not want to put my friends on the spot by communicating with them so much. a few of them have no worries for they are well established in the community and have no fear of reprecussions. and for the record. in 19 years of close observance, i assure you most do not stay. i even asked aquilla about this one time and he was very clear in his answer. most do not stay. one more note about unity and division. the first truly deciding factor for me to leave was when we did a fish/dead fest and although we were truly unified as an industry, there was continuous backbiting, arguments, jealousies, lawlessness, gossip, in fact there was even a whole sexual thing going on with several youth. i could never understand hopw the government would allow the children to go to these things where oral sex is performed openly and nudity is par for the course. i was told it was faith. i think it has produced more bad fruit that good. it is simply not worth the monetary gain if you all trully believe what you say you believe. | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 252 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
Mrs. Chi, I never cease to be amazed at how much human beings perspectives can differ. One person focuses on the glass being half empty...another is overwhelmingly thankful for the water that is in the same glass. As for me, from the day I first found this life back in 2002, it was as if I had spent my whole life crawling through a desert dying of thirst...and then I finally found a river of living water. I jumped in and began drinking, and the water was truly sweet. It still is, and getting sweeter by the day, as I get saved from things in me that would divide me from communion with my friends; and as we grow in faith and grace as a people. For sure there are still some "thorns and briars" in our life. Our faith is that as we hold onto communion with our Father and each other, He is going to destroy all those things that keep us from being all He needs us to be. We don't claim to have arrived. But we know we are on the narrow way of our Master Yahshua, doing our best to give all to love each other and maintain unity each day...and the work He has begun in us He is well able to complete. The true picture of our life is nothing like you make it out to be.The picture you paint is one painted by one trying to live this life in the flesh; and for sure, our life is a torture chamber for anyone who is in the flesh. Our Father designed it that way. We wouldn't want it any other way. Those who come into this life, without giving their own life up, will either come to the end of themselves, and blame themselves and live, and then give up their lives and make a real covenant with our Master Yahshua; or they will finally run out of their own strength, and blame others and die...and desert those they pretended to make an irrevokable covenant with. If a person really dies, they can't go back. If a person truly dies, there is nothing but dust and ashes in going back. But the Spirit we have received gives us the power to suffer long with each other; and in all lowliness and meekness esteem one another higher than ourselves, laboring to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Clearly, Mrs. Chi, you didn't and don't esteem your friends as higher than yourself...you are full of reasonings about how your own perspectives were and are superior to theirs. The Spirit we have received (those of us who love this life) does NOT "build a case" against our brothers or this life, or especially against our brothers who carry the burden of leadership. It is other spirits who are in the business of doing that. We would rather love each other, in spite of our many faults, and continue to grow in the love and unity that we very much DO HAVE, in spite of your accusations to the contrary. I have lived in 6 communities, and visited about a dozen others...and I would rather be a doorkeeper in any of them...I would rather take out the trash in any of them...than take my fate upon myself and live anywhere else on earth. Clearly, that is not your persuasion. That's fine. Why would we want you here if you don't want to be here? We wouldn't and don't...though we wish your heart was different, and are sad that it is not. We are building a kingdom of true friends, who love at all times and don't divide no matter what...who will live and even die for each other in Yahshua's name. True friends are willing even to suffer greatly together for the sake of love, as well as rejoice together. True friends forgive and ask forgiveness, and maintain their common life together. True friends don't build a case and then cut and run. I am really honored to live with people who are true friends. I want to be a person like that, and I am learning to be. That gives me great hope. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1078 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.224.167.26 |
My heart weeps for children who suffer the lies. | ||
| mrs_chi New member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.191 |
my response: "I never cease to be amazed at how much human beings perspectives can differ." there is a very good and godly reason for this. "One person focuses on the glass being half empty...another is overwhelmingly thankful for the water that is in the same glass." i am definitly the half full looking forward to drinking, sharing and refilling to share more type person. even in the community people were always asking how i could stay so positive under so many negative circumstances. "As for me, from the day I first found this life back in 2002, it was as if I had spent my whole life crawling through a desert dying of thirst...and then I finally found a river of living water. I jumped in and began drinking, and the water was truly sweet." i am happy for you. where i live and the people i live with, it is the same and our river runs free. "It still is, and getting sweeter by the day, as I get saved from things in me that would divide me from communion with my friends; and as we grow in faith and grace as a people." same here only we make no such claims as "we are the way the truth the light, the only ones on the earth, yashuah in the flesh, etc..", in fact we encourage disentism among ourselves and we especially listen to what some consider 'the least of these'. For sure there are still some "thorns and briars" in our life. Our faith is that as we hold onto communion with our Father and each other, He is going to destroy all those things that keep us from being all He needs us to be. We don't claim to have arrived. but you do claim all that i stated above and you outright pass judgment on people saying this one is going to the lake of fire. i heard yoneq with my own ears make this statement about two people. in a gathering. the interesting thing is, it is kind of obvious that communal life is hard with thorns and briars, but have you noticed how the thorns and briars all cover and are entagled with eachother. it is not healthy. "But we know we are on the narrow way of our Master Yahshua, doing our best to give all to love each other and maintain unity each day...and the work He has begun in us He is well able to complete." i could believe this about you if i was only a passerby, a visitor/friend, but i have been there up close and very personal for many tears and years. i could believe many of your words if i knew that if some one did not have faith among you about going to the minocht and wasn't condemned or cut off for it. most of the people i know that are still with you go only out of fear. they know it is a premature child that has been born yet they fear speaking the truth because it would mean uprooting their children from the only life they have known. they also fear going to the lake of fire if they speak anything against the annointing. where i live and the people i fellowship with there is no such fear and we encourage people to speak up about anything they have fear, doubt or concerns about. they are never corrected for it or cut off. they are heard. even children have a voice. | ||
| mrs_chi New member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.191 |
"The true picture of our life is nothing like you make it out to be.The picture you paint is one painted by one trying to live this life in the flesh; and for sure, our life is a torture chamber for anyone who is in the flesh." you assume much because this is what you have been told over and over. all who truly new me there will be the first ones to tell you i was wholehearted and not 'in the flesh' a majority of the time, in fact i was told more often than not that i was one of the most refreshing disciples people had seen in a long, long time. you assume way to much. i did not feel tortured in my flesh at all. i love giving up my life, even though at times it does hurt, the fruit i produce now is ten times what i did in the tribes because the love is true and real with no hidden transgressions or wrong fear. i simply knew i was being betrayed by some faulty people who claim the truth but do not truly live it unless in benefits them. i am not stupid although i have done some stupid things and i know exposing the hypocrisy and lies in the government of the tt was not one of them. no sooner did i expose several atrocities that were being hidden for the sake of public reputation or fear of yoneq was i called into a kahul and every sin i had ever committed and was supposedly forgiven for by my 'true friends who gave up their life for me' was brought up, i mean things from even when i was first baptized that i had even forgot about! so here it was the classic thing of being truthful and trusting and the next thing i know i am an evil dark person who never had the holy spirit. this all comming from elders whose children i caught masturebating in public, lieing outright and often when exposed, who are eating and drinking things we ought not from the personal fridge in their bedroom. (rich foods and such) i could go on endlessly in this mode for all i endured. i assure you they tried to make me conspire in their hypocrisy. i would have no part of it and that was when things got really bad. i saw there was no hope for love. and that was my final test. i passed. i still love them and they have made it clear that they hate me. that is why my friends inside have to hide their relationship with me. will continue my response a little later. thank you. | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 254 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
So tell us, Mrs. Chi...where is this wonderful life where the fruit you produce is ten times what it was in the Tribes? As Sameach often says, "show me a better life with a better people and I will go there". Where is it? Show me your people. Who are they and where are they? Where is this wonderful life of love and unity flowing like a river that you lay claim to have? Tell the world about it, please! Don't keep your lamp under a bushel! As for me, I know who I live with; I know who my leaders are, what kind of men they are; I know my friends, and they are true friends, which is more than I can say for you. After all, you aren't here, though you swore to be here through thick and thin. People who divide from their friends almost always can go on ad nauseum with accusations that they imagine justify themselves, just as you do. I don't doubt you could continue in this vein for hours. It is so tiresome. But enough of this. As Sameach also says, "Don't wrestle with a pig. All that will happen is you will get slimed, and the pig will love it." Sincerely, David | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 479 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.245.214.101 |
Mrs. Chi, It is not unusual for David Derrush to get personal and somewhat mean-spirited when someone speaks out about real issues that happen in the TT's. Please don't take it personally. I think he has to take that posture in order to keep his internal TT's equilibrium secured. Please forgive me if this sounds condescending. I don't mean it to be so, as I certainly am not "holier than thou" or anyone else for that matter, apart from the finished work of Jesus on the cross, but it has to be said. You did touch that "nerve" in David that causes him to respond to others in a carnal way. Several things you said troubled me, as I know of similar things to be true, from my own family in the TT's. One of the several troubling things you said was that you know of youth accompanying those who are ministering at the concerts where there are public displays of sexuality. *sigh* That would be akin to taking your son or daughter to see porn. I assure you, anointing or not, it leaves an indelible mark on the soul...an image that will burn deeply in the memory of a developing young mind. What a lack of wisdom! | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 702 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. David Alexander (Derush) ... As Sameach also says, "Don't wrestle with a pig. All that will happen is you will get slimed, and the pig will love it." Perhaps Sameach was referencing the refusal of David Alexander (Derush) and Twelve Tribes to remove the blasphemous Jesus/zeus canard from their websites and literature, and to offer proper correction and teaching for those who have been misled and mistaught by their error, to help those who might accept the blasphemous lie as real scholarship. Ironically, others who tell the same lie as in the Twelve Tribes literature are so ignorant and so demonically buffeted as to actually try to equate the Lord Jesus Christ with pig. Gary Mink was involved in helping refute the same type of lie as is today in the Twelve Tribes literature. http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/JesusZeus.htm DOES JESUS = ZEUS? IS THE NAME OF JESUS DERIVED FROM THE NAME ZEUS? Here Gary even gave an example of an attack letter he received, the same type of absurdity, all part of the zeus/pig demonic blasphemy. http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/InvitationEssayC.html An Invitation Essay So in a real sense Twelve Tribes has placed themselves with the pigs by knowingly and brazenly continuing the dissemination of the blasphemous lie against the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Even after they having acknowledged that they were in error on referring to the blasphemous attack as 'scholarship', almost a year later they continue to propagate the very same lie every day ! Integrity first. Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Shalom, Steven Avery | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
Wow this thread really took off-- ic solo-- beam in his eye. You are right to say that, yet I feel concerned about the ability dd has to strike anger in so many here. DD's last post here to Mrs. Chi is a good example of how one can tell he doesn't have the spirit he claims to. If he did he would not speak like that(don't they <tt> want to be like jesus?) jesus never spoke like that!!!! | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
DD said- " sure there are still some thorns and briars in our life..." Yes David and they will never dissapear until your group humbles itself and starts letting 'commoners' within question practices and authority and hold them accountable (the auth.) for their actions!! Those heroes in history that have the courage to stand up and speak the truth, and question practices are the same people we can be thankful to that made the changes in our lives. Some were tortured physically for their beliefs/comments(servetus/jean d' arc) this doesn't happen in first world countries anymore, except in the tribes, where they torture one's mind, and threaten living status. | ||
| visitor2005 Junior Member Username: visitor2005 Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.193.24.149 |
whatever the case im sure the communities that once had you under their roof mrs_chi are all doing much better now that you have gone... im suprised people in the tribes still communicate with you... maybe it is because of family... from my time their i made wonderfull friends... i still have a close friend i call often... and each time we speak we both feel encouraged... my friend their has mentioned many times how encouraged he feels when we speak... I see and admire the life he has been able to live... I call and receive living water... and when I read David's words i recieve it as well... and from others here that receive the living water of the tribes but may have not yet made a covenant... All others here bring death... as do you... you speak evil things... why even mention them ? do you not realise what you have wrote mrs_chi ? how many young children do you think come to this site and read it ? what images do your words put in their heads ? particular the images you are so concerned about children seeing ? or do you rationalize ? as for schmuel just another tare... you come here and attack each day... get a life that produces fruit... yours wasted here is doing NOTHING at all... and poor naba... you people here cant wait to attack ... hide in the shadows all day... and then you come out when someone who is living the life you could not attain comes here to speak from his heart... jesus wept... selah | ||
| wonderingaboutalot New member Username: wonderingaboutalot Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.66.177.91 |
David Derush, I heard once not to long ago I believe it was while you lived with Yoneq that He was considering leaving because of seeing so many children fall away, and wonde3red himself if you all truelly are the people of God. could you shed some light on this for me? Mrs.chi I am also curious as to what life you live with others that produces the fruit of the kingdom? what is the name of the church group and how do I get in touch with them? thanx | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 185 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.31.88.194 |
Ok, Let me say that DD is a prime example of the type of mind control that runs rampant in the community. Still in all their pride,they keep building man's kingdom (nursing home jobs) and push for the white man's dream comprised of Jewish wannabees. They will beat you with their doctrine till you submit and become a droid that will eat, sleep, work and speak tribe babble. They speak against diversity but seem to have no problem using the worldly goods like computers,air conditioners, cars,power tools and credit cards too! And of course the dudes even have cell phones. Hippiecrits!" Take the beam out of your eye and you will see clear the speck in your brothers eye." The commune lives under the yoke of the old law which not one person could keep. Hmmm, let me count how many times they have worked on the Sabbath. It was clear to me that the oppression that people felt was very much like the Roman Catholic Churches. "The stained glass curtain your hiding behind, never let's in the sun." There is definitely a spirit there but the Holy Spirit has long packed his bags and left. As far as love, love will continue forever cause God is love. | ||
| solomon_7 Intermediate Member Username: solomon_7 Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.31.88.194 |
Ok, Let me say that DD is a prime example of the type of mind control that runs rampant in the community. Still in all their pride,they keep building man's kingdom (nursing home jobs) and push for the white man's dream comprised of Jewish wannabees. They will beat you with their doctrine till you submit and become a droid that will eat, sleep, work and speak tribe babble. They speak against diversity but seem to have no problem using the worldly goods like computers,air conditioners, cars,power tools and credit cards too! And of course the dudes even have cell phones. Hippiecrits!" Take the beam out of your eye and you will see clear the speck in your brothers eye." The commune lives under the yoke of the old law which not one person could keep. Hmmm, let me count how many times they have worked on the Sabbath. It was clear to me that the oppression that people felt was very much like the Roman Catholic Churches. "The stained glass curtain your hiding behind, never let's in the sun." There is definitely a spirit there but the Holy Spirit has long packed his bags and left. As far as love, love will continue forever cause God is love. | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 703 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Folks, Thanks a lot, Vistitor. I always appreciate when you come forth with your nothing personal attacks.  Since I can be assured then that my writings have reflected the heart of God, and they have honored Messiah's majestic and Holy name .. the Lord Jesus Christ. It is puzzling trying to figure out why you are so obviously incapable of anything other than a few weak ad hominmems. Maybe you figure you can deflect, and help Derush run and hide from the zeus blaspehemy and the lack of a true inspired Bible, and get a brownie point ? A bit transparent, though. Yours in Jesus name, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic} | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
Solomon-- I agree with what you say about power tools, but not that whole sentence. Yes the group practices with worldly, new fangled items. But in some ways there is no way around it. I agree with your point though, and it reminds me of a comment. R. Spencers wife told me something important, one day while i was talking with her in the cafe and bakery shop. I asked her would the group use every single product they sell themselves, as in 'endorsing' it as ok?> the answer-- NO. She had that same question too and was not given an answer, but didn't question it of course. So it is true that they only care for profit, why else should they work 80-90+ hrs/wk ? Why don't these 'disciples' question things? Do they not know that NOT questioning something that truly is seen as 'not right' or just plain wrong is LYING???!!??? Not say anything can be/almost always is the same as lying, THEY ARE LYING TO THEMSELVES AND TO GOD! Why does this fact make me so mad? I wanted with all my heart to believe they were who they said they were but they're not. They made me lose hope of God for more than a year. pls excuse my rant but they're just Brain dead disciples! | ||
| mrs_chi New member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 204.117.95.74 |
oh my what a ruckus i have caused. my computer is down at the moment so i will respond when it is fixed. please be patient and i shall continue or respond to all. thank you, mrs. chi | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 261 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
Mrs. Chi, having deserted Yahshua and the Word of God, has found her comfort in the teachings and spirit of Don Miguel Ruiz. Her take on the Word of God is simply this in her own words recorded over on http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/21228.html?1154458428 "thank goodness for individuals that realize as spiritual history proves we are simply not mature enough to handle the 'word of g~d'. " On the other hand, here are a few of her raves for her wonderful guru Don Miguel: have you ever heard of 'the four agreements companion book' by don miguel ruiz?? YES!! dream_truth! THE MASTERY OF LOVE!! awesome! set my spirit free in so many ways! i read out of the wisdom book also, tho' it is much like the companion book. these three books are all i buy for birthdays, holidays or just because i love you gifts. -------------- If anyone wants to see what she has abandoned the Word of God and the love of Yahshua for, here is Don Miquel's website: http://www.miguelruiz.com/ Here is Don's foundational "toltec wisdom" that Mrs. Chi finds so worth abandoning the Sermon on the Mount for: 1. Be Impeccable With Your Word Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love. 2. Don't Take Anything Personally Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you wonít be the victim of needless suffering. 3. Don't Make Assumptions Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life. 4. Always Do Your Best Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret. Of course, she abandoned the first toltec principle already...she made an irrevokable covenant to love her friends just as Yahshua loved her...and she broke it. But as her new guru says: "When we have love for ourselves, total faith in ourselves and we completely enjoy who we are, how can we judge?" don Jose Luis Now there's is wisdom for the ages. Who needs Yahshua? (I do!) To be continued: | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
If you want to experience the life and wisdom of Don Miquel, you can move in and live with him just like in Acts 2 and 4! Well, not exactly. But you can pay $300.00 to experience a "dream weekend" with him! (food and lodging not included, or course...what do you think this is, the hospitality of Abraham or something?) http://www.miguelruiz.com/events.html RECURRING EVENTS Evening Darshans with don Jose Luis, dona Judy and dear friend, dona Stephanie. Location: Open Door Wellness Center, 1054 Second Street, Suite B Encinitas, CA 92007 Time: 7:00 PM – 8:30 PM "When we have love for ourselves, total faith in ourselves and we completely enjoy who we are, how can we judge?" don Jose Luis Cost $25.00 Reservations: Reservations are not required. Please register at the event. For information: Please e-mail Darshan Information or call 760-994-9854. Darshan Dates: August 10, 2006 September 21, 2006 October 26, 2006 November 16, 2006 December 14, 2006 Dreaming Weekends – Experience a Toltec Mystery School with don Jose Luis & don Miguel along with dona Judy and dona Stephanie. Each Dreaming weekend is a unique experience. Don Jose Luis shares the lineage passed on from his Father, his grandmother and his great-grandfather. He is joined by his wife dona Judy and don Miguel's apprentice of twenty years dona Stephanie in sharing the message of unconditional love for life equals personal freedom. Let the experience of Dreaming lead you back to yourself. It is time to remember who you really are. Enter the portal of Dreaming and realize yourself as a Dream Catcher. Location: Open Door Wellness Center, 1054 Second Street, Suite B Encinitas, CA 92007. Visit www.opendoorwellness.com. Time: Friday 7:00 PM through Sunday 12:00 noon more info Cost $300.00 (Cost does not include food or lodging) For information and reservations: Please e-mail Reservations or call 760-994-9854. (space is limited to 35 persons – PLEASE make a reservation early to reserve your space for the weekend! We do reserve space on a first come-first serve basis.) For more details: Please look at the description under Dreaming Program. Dreaming Dates: August 4-6, 2006 September 8-10, 2006 October 6-8, 2006 November 3-5, 2006 December 1-3, 2006 | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
Of course, if you are really loopy, and have money, you can go even further with this... AUGUST 2006 August 17-21, 2006 Power Journey to Teotihuacán with don Miguel, don Jose Luis & dona Judy Location: Teotihuacán, Mexico Join us as we visit the place that inspired don Miguel Ruiz's teachings described in Beyond Fear. Travel through time as you explore these ancient ruins. Let us guide you to remember your divine inspiration and joy of creation. Travel down the Avenue of the Dead and remember your essence, your heart and your love. Climb the great Pyramid of the Sun and reconnect with your true self - 'you' as the love of your life. On this trip we will celebrate Circle of Fire at the Pyramids! For information and reservations: Please e-mail Reservations or call 760-994-9854. Cost $1,295.00 ($300.00 non-refundable deposit required). Includes Double Occupancy Lodging, Ground Transport, Pyramid Entrance Fees, Program. Does not include transportation to Mexico City airport or meals. We can now accept Visa and Mastercard payments for this journey. "Journey" is right...be taken for a ride.... | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 264 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
And if you are willing to totally abandon common sense, much less the Word of God and the Son of God...you can REALLY get your ears tickled...check out what Don reserves for those who really want to hear what they want to hear: OCTOBER 2006 October 25, 2006 Evening Lecture with don Miguel The Power of Authenticity Location: The Rogers Center in North Andover, MA Time: 7:00 PM - 9:30 PM We use the majority of our personal power investing in the way we believe that we should be. We care about everybody else’s opinions. We exhaust ourselves pretending to be what we are not and we hardly have time to enjoy our lives. When we become authentic, when we no longer pretend to be what we are not, we recover all the power that we had invested in other people’s opinions. We can invest this power in our own happiness. One of the biggest lies that exist today is that humans are here to suffer. Your birthright is joy, peace, happiness and abundance. Learn to see your story, exactly as it is, and then learn how to modify your personal dream into a dream of heaven on earth. Cost $60.00 (Tickets with assigned seating) October 28, 2006 Special Event Lecture with don Miguel Mind Body Spirit Expo Location: Valley Forge Convention Center in Philadelphia, PA Time: 1:00 PM - 3:30 PM Your birthright is joy, peace, happiness and abundance. Learn to see your story, exactly as it is, and then learn how to modify your personal dream into a dream of heaven on earth. Join don Miguel as he explains how to apply practical wisdom to your life. General admission fee: $15 Cost of Lecture: $50.00 (For first ten rows) or $35.00 (For rows 11 and higher) Sign up now to receive updates about the site and to hear about upcoming events and public actions before the general public! | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 265 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
Mrs. Chi, you lack any sense. And the spirits you have surrendered yourself to will lead you straight to the second death, the eternal lake of fire. You can say whatever you want about my friends...but I know them, and I know they are down to earth, real people,(who on earth is more down to earth and real than Sameach?) who really do their best to surrender each day to love as He loved and maintain unity with their friends. We live a real life of love and unity in our communities. Your slander cannot change that. And what you have given yourself to, having abandoned those you pledged yourself to never divide from, proves that you have no sense, and nothing real to offer as an alternative. You sold your birthright for a bowl of soup, as so many others have done before you. Whatever you say here, should be measured by people of sense and reason, by what you yourself consider to be credible...what I have posted above, that to you is worth more than the Word of God. No matter how credible you may try to make your accusations sound, (you are articulate, even if hollow)....you are NOT a credible person, based on what you consider credible. Anyone with sense and a real respect for the truth of the Word of God should be able to see that. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.27 |
david your so funny! you write as though i would be ashamed of my other writings and how i believe, as though you know what faith/beliefs i have now. i am not. and you don't. you are having the same reaction, almost identical, as when i told my covering i was going to speak directly with hakam or yoneq about everything unless some honesty and love began to prevail. and your last postings prove as much. you judge and assume so often that your points of possible reason get lost in the jabs and pokes that only arise from the uneducated, immature or extreemly threatend. then you use your religion as a justification for your unrightous nasty disposition and behaviour. very strange. well although i have never been a toltec and i doubt i ever would be, i simply agree with some of their lessons on living apart from the hostility you display and narrow mindedness. even if i only believed in the historical messiah i do not believe he would ever speak to anyone 'as' you do. if fact the scriptures are pretty clear he only spoke harshly with 'those closest to him(his disciples) and the pharrisees(the ones who claimed they had the truth) of the day. i don't know if you ever noticed the messiah had the 4 agrmts perfected. it may help you to communicate better if you consider them and his true spirit of love. have you shown samaech your recent writings to me? i can only imagine his reaction to you.. i forgive you your presumtions, accusations, judgments and ignorance and hope we can continue to comunicate on a kinder level. by the way, two of the people that witnessed what happen to me have come clean and exposed several in gov't for the liars and decievers they are and how dishonorbly and evil i was treated. they are still trying to work out all the details to see how it all got so out of hand and how so many people were hurt and unable to expose the things that were happening for several years. it took alot for me to stand up for the truth and call those in authority on their unloving actions and lies upon lies. i am not afraid of you or your words because i know exactly how you came to be where you are and why you defend yourself so vehemently and try to make me look bad. i experienced that everyday from the ones i trusted there and who said they gave their lives for me. they were much worse than you though. you are actually nice in comparison. i lived everyday for my last 8 months there hoping love would love and people would change and i would endure. when you see the amount of abuse i saw and suffered it becomes clear that those you trust are untrustworthy and do not know love at all, lieing to keep in the good graces of yoneq is unacceptable. so how do you explain the many who are sick among you? | ||
| lookatall Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 395 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
David De Rush, thou doth protest too much, if you were secure in your beliefs you would not have to keep explaining them over and over again. It seems you so badly want to believe in the infallible nature of the message of the Tribes. Remember, Practice the Word, that is the living word of God as opposed to the deadening word of Yoneq, and you will not need to keep searching what you see every day to reassure yourself. | ||
| rainy_day_woman Intermediate Member Username: rainy_day_woman Post Number: 190 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.131.36.14 |
Mrs. Chi, Hi, it sure sounds as though you suffered terribly at the hands of the unjust elders in the twelve tribes. What a victim you must be! I'm sure you will find plenty of sympathy here. In fact, I've heard many ex-members on factnet express your same sentiment. I'm sorry you feel God and, or, love failed you. Love never fails... those who remain faithful and serve the God of love who seems to be very much alive and well in the Twelve Tribes of Israel. | ||
| julieanne New member Username: julieanne Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 81.178.94.232 |
lookatall DD has to keep repeating his beliefs over and over it's what the community do. when i was in the community it's what we did not just to potential converts but to each other too, we talked all day over and over again about how thankful we were for our new life and how good our father is. and the more you talk like that the more you are affirmed by everyone. RDW i see no indication from the above posting that Mrs Chi feels that God has failed her, only her brethren who claimed to love her and have her best interests at heart. | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.145 |
hi rdw, i am sorry your sorry. like david, this assuming business makes me grow weary. people fail rdw. i do, you do, we all do. it is par for the course. admitting our own failures is the key and forgiving others of theirs is the lock. they fit. there is no sentiment in what i express. it is my experience and i am thankful to have gone through it. there were no doubt many wonderful experiences in the community. there is no doubt the community has beautiful people and so many aspects of goodness. if it were not so i would no longer communicate with my friends there nor would i bother being on this thread. i am thankful they have taken steps to vindicate several families besides myself that were mistreated. it is taking a long time but at least they are aware and trying. are you living there now? if so i am surprised they allow you on line, if indeed you are a woman. if you are not there, what is holding you back? when i spoke as you do now, nothing could have prevented me from being with them. do you believe there entire doctrine? i was not educated in all their beliefs until i became baptized. most things you will not be privy to until you are a baptized member. i loved being a visiter. i look forward to visiting this fall. which community do you live in or visit? maybe we will meet and be friends aside from this board. peace, mrs. chi | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.145 |
wonderingaboutalot, great name! if you give me your email i would be happy to correspond with you. sorry it took so long to respond. still having problems with my computer. | ||
| lookatall Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Julieanne, very interesting. Mr De Rush, you are plain and simple in a cult that is no different , better, or enlightened than any other cult. In fact the TT easily pass the Litmus test for a cult, along with many others on this board.. The cult system turns in on itself and as everyone affirms how wonderful everything is, there is no one to give an OBJECTIVE opinion of the practices there, and no ACCOUNTABILITY for mind control and its damaging effects. I am very sad for the children. | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 480 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.245.214.101 |
Weighing in: Well, I read through this thread and here's what I see. RDW and DD, I really think your are in over your heads on this issue. DD: it seems as if you are trying to attack the spirituality and the character of Mrs Chi, in order to protect your beliefs and the TT's. It really doesn't work, though, as her demeanor far outclasses yours, sorry to say. Mrs Chi, has taken the Christ-like role and has deflected your attacks with her love, transparency and honesty. Whatever you or I might think of Ruiz, some of his teaching have biblical parallel and illustration in the life of Christ, as wisdom is true, even if one finds it from human experience, rather than the Word of God. She has taken that road and is coming off a lot more spiritually mature than you are. David, it also seems to me that you are attacking her about something that is being dealt with in the TT's by her friends and that the gov't is trying to do something about it, having recognized/acknowledged the transgression, which puts you on shaky ground in attacking her. (What an opportunity for the TT's to come clean, to reach out, repent and grow, making amends with her!) RDW: Did you hear what MC said about her demeanor before she joined? She has your situation pretty well understood, doesn't she? I guess for outsiders like me, what is coming out of this conversation is that neither the gov't of the TT's or people who are sympathetic to it seem to be willing to honestly acknowledge or deal with the faults/fallibilities of the TT's in front of outsiders, because it weakens the absolute rightness about revelation of Messiah and community. James Howell and Michael Painter spoke at length about the great pressure against doing so, while they were high leaders in the gov't. (but they FELT/KNEW of the TT's incongruencies, which they admitted to propagating. Their hypocracy in doing so, drove them to leave.) Admitting wrong would be akin to the Pope admitting fallibility and therefore lessening his authority with God. (This is also apparent in the TT's unwillingness to change their research error (overstep) in their pamplet about Jesus/Zeus) What a tough place to be in! There is a remedy, however. It is humility and repentence. It really takes the pressure off! Have a good day! | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.57 |
a newbi to factnet and an associate of mine has been monitering the dialoque between dd and all of us. i was sent this letter in response and given permission to post it. although it is of strong content, i thought it might provoke questions and possibly answers for resolve/closure on certain issues for anyone suffering or aware of someone who is suffering over them. normaly i would not do this however, i have gotten several other emails from other silent readers complaining that i need to balance out the reported glory of the tt by dd and better defend myself. i believe this letter does that exactly. _________________________________________________ Hey my friend- about the factnet-thingy about Samaech..... Well, to start with, Stem (Samaech's son) has been gone for a WHILE- and still is, as far as I know. (And I am also pretty sure Samaech had another much older child that left a long time ago). Stem left after he blew half his face/neck off (?ok, not sure what got blown off precisely, I do know a major artery in his neck was involved though....) he was indulging in his addiction to those homemade bombs. He's ok now, though. : ) Cantrells can sure be curiously feisty, huh? lol! Thorns and briars....? Remember Samaech's wife cheated on him with another man IN the community. Ouch. Wasn't that a nightmare. I love her to pieces, but she got pretty tangled up at that time. Back in those days, we at least dealt with things more publicly and honestly. Now everything is swept under the carpet. I hate it. She was really honorable about it all when she responded to the whole thing, IMHO. But really..... people need to know when they make that commitment to be there through the "thick and thin" like D.D. mentioned to you, that it COULD mean staying when your spouse cheats on you, smacks you, molests a (your??)child, and you are told by your brothers to stay with them . (This goes for husbands and wives alike, obviously) This is the absolute truth. Oh- yeah, it also means an Elder can hit you too. Choke it down. Truth. Been there. Doesn't happen very often, any of those things, but it does. Then what do you do? Or-it could mean staying there when the brothers make a decision where one of your children or spouse dies (read it again-DIES) and you don't have one ounce of peace about it. Or you don't agree with how they decide to dispose of the..... body. (Like in a frikkin' basement furnace in France-......) Shaking my head in absolute, utter, inner torture. Or, it could be YOU(or your mom, dad, spouse, kid) that they decide they are not going to give CPR to, if you have a heart condition like Wanda did. (But..oh yeah, forgot to tell you that they made the decision not to recessitate you!) Ok. We've been all over that. Sorry I'm going over it again... | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.57 |
continued: People who live with Samaech for a while don't actually like or trust him very much, from what people who lived with him have told me in private. (these are people STILL living in there, mainly, and a couple of folks who are out here) He is often known as an "untrustworthy backstabber", but only by those who claim to have really trusted their lives into his hands with difficult things. Sad, because his other side is so wonderful. In the gatherings, all the man preaches is love. Personally, I think most of it is his own personal frustration with trying to be "loyal" to the apostolic "group" (sorry,don't have a better term), and never being totally accepted as one of them, for reasons I am unaware of, but can only guess at. He has tried very hard to be real,but truly has stabbed his own back far worse than anyone else in the community. And who hasn't done that there at one time or another? I know, it sounds like I am contradicting myself. But people are complex. They just aren't black and white. So, he compromises who he really is inside for the sake of what he thinks is right in his present reality, which you and I can both relate to. Truth is, you can't meet Samaech on the street and not fall in love with his infectious warmth. The man just gets trapped easily. Wish there was some kind of real help for him there. Ok- new topic- Percentage-wise how many people leave over-all? Hmmm. Well, my opinion, from what I saw and people I've talked to..., is about 85% leave in the first five years. (and of those 85% probably 90% leave within the first 18 months) . After they get married or pass that point, they tend to hang in there. (That's why I was so shocked to hear Lev and Haninah recently left! Wow. Are they ok? Do they need anything?) From the children born in there, I'd say if you combine the children sent away with those who leave, I'd say it gets close to 50%. So......so much for the "Spirit of Elijah". Since we are only talking about a few thousand people, I really don't think it would be completely impossible to get some real numbers... Yoseph G. was actually keeping a pretty cool compilation of family trees before he left ...don't know if he's still out here or not. Know anybody up for that project? ROTF! (No ...not Yoseph, the consensus!) Anyhow, just recently- in the last few years, we've seen an influx of old-timers leaving, like we've talked about, before. Since we've both been gone for awhile now, I am not sure what to think about this phenomenon, except what these brokenhearted people tell me these days. I love them so much, and just don't know what to make of it all. | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.57 |
continued: Alright- another thought.... you have your regulars, like D. P.was, Yoel, andjustabout anyone with the name yathed.....(ha!) who come and leave with a pretty predictable regularity, so I don't know exactly how to handle that type of statistic..... (I would say these people fall into the group of people that D.D. was talking about, the folks who come back..... and a lot of that group ends up being children who usually make several false starts before committing to the actual "leap" of leaving for good...it's VERY hard to leave your family, as you well know.) BTW, I need to ask, do you think anyone on Factnet would be able familiar with the death (and subsequent uh...disposal of the body of) of the little girl belonging to Lavashu? I just wish I could understand what was going on there.....if you find anything out please let me know. About DD- Well it's pretty pretty typical (for the TT, not necessarily D.D. himself) that as soon as they are threatened...... they would refer to you as a pig. And I am SO glad you're above that all stuff, and can discuss things without having to stoop to name calling.....a hallmark sign that someone feels impotent in logic and commonsense reason. (That's not really namecalling is it?!) About the sexual stuff....well, all I can say is you and I both know there are many sexual issues just not being openly dealt with over all. A brother and sister end up sleeping together to avoid the required marriage issues..... the practical orgy that ended up in VA including Oh yeah-And this chick "visitor" should never let any of her children read the internet- ESPECIALLY factnet without sitting right there and monitoring it anyways. What is that about? I guess if children are getting online lawlessly, they are going to find a lot of horrible things FAR worse than what you wrote on factnet. I am sooooo thankful to be living a life of love with you, even if you are miles away. It's real and it's true, and I never feel like I can't say anything to anyone in your lively household, and I know you feel the same way about mine! When we have had our issues we have resolved them quickly with brutal honesty, and love. Thank you for always telling me the truth about myself. Some other interesting links pertaining to Samaech..... I think the one about gas-passing was very ........well........ I am just at a complete lost for an adjective, and you are by FAR the better writer, so can you find one for me?? Love you girl. Me <3 http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/9116.html?1115588284 http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/1918.html http://neirr.org/meeting3.htm http://neirr.org/meeting3.htm http://www.poemhunter.com/dicky-cantrell/poet-68231/ (BTW- Shalom Lavin's poems are on there too, case youre interested; ) ) _________________________________________________ i will c/p this letter and start a new thread for anyone interested in discussing the issues adressed here. thank you, mrs. chi | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 670 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.204.21 |
Hey mrs. chi! Do I know you? I got a feeling I do... email me! nabashalam@yahoo.com signed, Daveed Yathed | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 671 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.204.21 |
Oh, and David Derush... Why wont you answer me when I ask you what is the TTs definition of "Riding the back of the Beast" ? Is it that you realise the truth of your group accusing others of doing this and turning right around and doing it yourself? Explain this for us wont you please? | ||
| wonderingaboutalot New member Username: wonderingaboutalot Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.66.90.135 |
mrs chi i am at wonderingaboutalot@yahoo.com | ||
| rainy_day_woman Intermediate Member Username: rainy_day_woman Post Number: 191 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 128.163.110.72 |
Hi Mrs. Chi, It does make me sorry to witness sorry things... and I do find it strange that the assuming business makes you weary. Gossip sure doesn't!!! It is clear to me how you treat your "friends" and people who you claim to love. I'm sorry, but I could never trust someone like you enough to be real friends. Though, I hope the best for you. | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 265 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
julieann wrote something very to the point that I have been trying to summarize all along:when i was in the community it's what we did not just to potential converts but to each other too, we talked all day over and over again about how thankful we were for our new life and how good our father is. and the more you talk like that the more you are affirmed by everyone. That is very true! When people live together, work together, and completley isolate themselves from the 'world', it's no wonder they have such conviction when the lies are so apparent to your average outsider(who isn't 'infected' with them, otherwise, as in my case, they will lie to themselves as to what they really believe b/c they don't want to think that it's true)! | ||
| lookatall Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 398 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
A wounded deer leaps highest | ||
| lookatall Intermediate Member Username: lookatall Post Number: 399 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.114.115.115 |
Yes. i agree also... its called brainwashing, and it is a system started by a leader by example who rewards this kind of behaviour with his or her craved for and rarely given approval. | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 266 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
yeah brainwashing is the good general term, but the application technique used there, in juliannes words, were just what I was trying to say for months, all in one sentence. thats why I call them brain dead disciples, not to be mean, but they really are. Plus the fact that the members repeat false/prejudiced/overgeneralized info that the elders tell them as fact! Like college ruins one's moral character. They don't have studies/facts/even shabby little Globe/Times/Tribune/Post articles to back up what they are saying. ERRR just talking about it makes me angry. I almost wish, just for the sake of the children and sincere followers whose live's have been/will be ruined by this group that the US will take on the ideas that Germany has to be a crusade against these destructive sects. I don't know if there is a way of doing that that goes against the constitution, as there is no way to investigate this place because of the first amendment. Does anyone think that, in light of all the controversy, and obvious abuse of the kids, and the financial ruin of many that the TT should be inspected by dss and be audited? Adults making alternative spiritual choices is one thing, but forcing it on a child with those ideals(damnation for leaving, no toys, poor education) should be allowed in this country? I mean some parents I know have had DSS visit them for much less than that! | ||
| mrs_chi Junior Member Username: mrs_chi Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 12.107.247.26 |
"I don't know if there is a way of doing that that goes against the constitution, as there is no way to investigate this place because of the first amendment." hope20, such a sensitive issue to be sure. so many families in the tribes are functional and do not agree with 'certain methods' in the child training teachings and are wonderful parents/human beings. i would hate to see these families go through the negative experience of the worldly gov'ts handleing of abuse or neglect. i think this is where we must keep our voice, pray alot and always be an open door for those inside to come through and take safe refuge from the fear and control. ________________________________________________ rdw, call it what you will. everyone has a right to be heard. and the truth is always exposing lies. thats it's job, thats what it does. so you would rather stay be friends with those who eventually will not allow you to be heard and not be friends with someone who is not afraid to speak truth?? may the truth of love and freedom find and keep you, always, mrs. chi ________________________________________________ waa and nbslm, i will write soon to you both. today my computer is being worked on and i am getting ready for a road trip. it may take a couple days. thank you, mrs. chi | ||
| rainy_day_woman Intermediate Member Username: rainy_day_woman Post Number: 192 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.131.36.14 |
Mrs. Chi, I agree with you that everyone has a right to be heard. It's just that there are respectful ways of communicating, as well as dishonorable ways of expressing oneself. I don't know what lies you think you are exposing by trying to publically humiliate someone's family. It sounds to me like the worst thing you could say about Samaech is that he doesn't mind eating white dough pizza and fried chicken, and that he takes benadryl. The guy has eczema for goodness sakes! Also, you quoted some vague statement about him being a backstabber...Do you know what it means to backstab, Mrs. Chi? Backstabbing is a betrayal (as by a verbal attack against one not present) especially by a false friend. Who has a knife in their back now? I think I've heard it said before that one man's freedom is another man's prison, and vice versa, and that certainly rings true. | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 674 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.218.170 |
Sameach is a lone disciple. He goes and does what he wants and couldnt give a hoot about any anointing. He has all that he desires. New vehicle, credit cards, a/c rooms and a lifetime membership to Pizza Hut. So rdw, what about all the people and children who have other ailments that could be helped by over the counter meds and all they get is a handful of weeds? | ||
| davidderush Intermediate Member Username: davidderush Post Number: 271 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.155.201.56 |
I am glad people have a choice about who and what they choose to believe. That choice is really one of the key choices in determining a person's eternal destiny. As for me: People who break irrevokable covenants are not believable to me. People who throw horrible slander on public bulletin boards at people they claim to love are not believable to me. People who are promoters of the New Age lies of Don Miguel Ruiz are not believable to me. On the other hand, the people I live with, I find very believable. I love them, and they love me, and that is my daily reality, for which I am very, very thankful. I am overwhelmingly thankful to have a place, a context, to love as He loved, and be one as He and the Father are one. I couldn't find that anywhere, and I looked for it my whole adult life, Anon. For more than a quarter century I searched for it, high and low, and not till I ran into the Twelve Tribes communities did I find it. That is the reality of things. I gave up my life, to live the life of Yahshua here, and I have not been disappointed. In view of Messiah's promise that "all manner of evil would be spoken falsely" against those who simply loved one another just as He did...I am not at all surprised to find people throwing mud at our life, throwing mud at my friends, throwing mud at me. I expect it. I rejoice and leap for joy that our reward is great in heaven. The same kind of things were said about the prophets who came before us. Actually, such slander serves a good purpose. It helps keep the insincere and the liars away from us. As Proverbs 17:4 says, "An evildoer listens to wicked lips; a liar pays attention to a destructive tongue". Sincere-hearted people won't believe these things. Insincere people will lap it up and believe them, and stay away from us. We're glad of that. I read such things before I came into this life...and I didn't care. It didn't even slow me down. I was SO GLAD to find a place to love and be loved, to me, the reality that I and my friends are still being saved; that we still have problems that Yahshua is saving us from...that was a bonus to me. I expected to move into a life filled with people with problems, who were suffering long and loving each other anyway, and becoming like Yahshua in doing so. That is what I expected and that is what I got, and still get, every day, praise God. If there had been an internet in Paul's day, I don't doubt that Demas( who forsook him), Alexander the coppersmith and many others who found fault with things and deserted in the first communities, would have been on the net back then throwing similar mud around. I am just glad I can get up each day and live for my friends and they for me. I find the reality of self-denial, love and unity and prophetic purpose in our life to be undeniable. We know who we are, and we know the Way the Truth and the Life that we have, and we know what our purpose is. That is something no words can take away from us. Sincerely, David Derush | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 1115 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.182.239 |
hello david, this website has been here for many years now. there have been many very specific accusations towards those in authority in the TT and many others. i ask you this: is it possible that everyone of these people are liars? | ||
| hope_20 Intermediate Member Username: hope_20 Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.147.137.30 |
fof posted something that reminds me of a saying. It isn't appropriate to write it complete(i wouldn't even say it) but maybe people will fill in the blanks in thier mind's. If it smells like it and looks like it it probably is it | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 482 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 141.150.252.244 |
"People who break irrevokable covenants are not believable to me." TY for posting David... I can't accept your statement that a vow to the TT's is unbreakable. You see, in that statement lies the rub. It assumes that you all are the only body of Messiah. You are not, and the assumption is pride. You know that Proverbs says that God hates a haughty tongue. I think that people who break these so-called covenants are breaking a false vow and are being set free, albeit having been very wounded by abuse and the like. Messiah came to set people free. I could go on and on. I won't, however, but I do have the same recurring question: Why can't any of you guys come clean, be honest and answer questions to outsiders. The truth is that we all know what's going on, anyway. We know it from former members and from our own family who is there. Some issues are downright scandalous. I know some things from my family that no one knows here. One particular one would land anyone in jail. Your note takes the posture of being victimized/persecuted and evades engaging us, so you come off badly. Really badly. You see human nature is such that when someone is seen as evading the issues it comes across as if they have something to hide as they're avoiding direct discussion. You know this. This is what you are doing. Not only are you evading the issues but you are attacking the sources. That also makes you look bad. The fact that you believe that you have found what you had been looking for and that you have peace is great, but it doesn't engage the issues on the table. You see, I've heard it all before. The same dialogue and that from leaders who were in greater positions of government than you. They said the same things...they did their damage, then left the TT's! You know what, David? I wish the TT's WERE real, but alas they are not. For years, you all have told us to judge the fruit. As the years pass, it becomes more and more difficult to hide the negative fruit. It is right out there for all to see. I think if you all stuck to the points honestly, it would work better for you. | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 711 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Anon.. "I think if you all stuck to the points honestly, it would work better for you." Anon... David Alexander (Derush) stick to the points honestly ? ... wow .. now that would be something to see ! Shalom, Steven Avery PS. Especially it's a cause on another forum David actually tried for about 3 posts to defend the TT lack of a pure and inspired Bible and the mistaken mangled non-name they use for the Lord Jesus Christ. His attempts were very short-lived, he skedaddled, (he de-rushed out of dere) since his positions are so unscriptural and full of holes and nonsensical (as I recall, he even tried to float middle ages Matthew and Peshitta primacy). The zeus blasphemy that he uses in his literature wasn't even the issue then. So honesty and consistency from David Alexander (Derush) ? Not on the foundational issues like the Bible and the name of Jesus Christ .. or the ongoing TT zeus blasphemy. | ||
| anon_e_mus Intermediate Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 485 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 141.150.252.244 |
Steven, TY for your view on this. My initial reaction to it is that I'd rather hear an answer from David. If everyone answers for him, then we have a million opinions and not David's, with all due respect to you and yours. Thanks. Anon | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 712 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Anon.. "I think if you all stuck to the points honestly, it would work better for you." Anon... David Alexander (Derush) stick to the points honestly ? ... wow .. now that would be something to see ! Shalom, Steven Avery PS. Especially it's a cause on another forum David actually tried for about 3 posts to defend the TT lack of a pure and inspired Bible and the mistaken mangled non-name they use for the Lord Jesus Christ. His attempts were very short-lived, he skedaddled, (he de-rushed out of dere) since his positions are so unscriptural and full of holes and nonsensical (as I recall, he even tried to float middle ages Matthew and Peshitta primacy). The zeus blasphemy that he uses in his literature wasn't even the issue then. So honesty and consistency from David Alexander (Derush) ? Not on the foundational issues like the Bible and the name of Jesus Christ .. or the ongoing TT zeus blasphemy. | ||
| rainy_day_woman Intermediate Member Username: rainy_day_woman Post Number: 193 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 128.163.110.72 |
Anon, What do you hope to accomplish by dialoging with David? You have already made the statement, "I wish the TT's WERE real, but alas they are not." David said, "we still have problems that Yahshua is saving us from...that was a bonus to me. I expected to move into a life filled with people with problems, who were suffering long and loving each other anyway, and becoming like Yahshua in doing so. That is what I expected and that is what I got, and still get, every day, praise God." What more do you need to know, Anon? So, they aren't perfect, they don't claim to be. What they do claim is to be following Yahshua in obeying his commands to give up their life in the world in order to love each other as he loved them, in community. Where is the bad fruit in that? Sure, one could hold onto their own life, and avoid the risk of trusting Yahshua's spirit in his people, but where would that get anyone? It's not going to save anybody. | ||
| julieanne New member Username: julieanne Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 81.179.127.193 |
"so they aren't perfect, they don't claim to be." actually RDW when you're a new disciple of the twelve tribes that is exactly what they claim to be (well the shepherds anyway). you are not given a choice in what you do, wear, eat or where you go you just obey your shepherd because your shepherd is god to you. even if you know your shepherd is wrong you have to do it because god does not make mistakes he is perfect and as they're god they consider thier decisions perfect too. anyone else can say or think what they like , i know this is true because i asked a shepherd one day, after being told i had to do something i knew was wrong, "what if you're wrong" and that's the answer i got. RDW as i understand it you have only visited the community. i'm not saying that makes your opinion invalid. but you can never know the true position of the community unless you've been on the inside, DD talks about people who break the covenant they made when they were baptised, the problem is you are not told everything. when you are a guest you are treated very differently, lots of things will be hidden from you ( the amount of times i got in trouble for saying the wrong thing to a guest. i'd be having a conversation with a guest and one of my lovely brethren would be kicking me under the table because i was saying something that a guest isn't supposed to know. it's not until you've been baptised that you learn everything about their life and what is expected from you. you cannot make a true covenant without knowing the full terms. | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 713 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Well spoken, Julieanne. Also it is very possible to 'make a covenant', which was purported to be irrevocable, yet God would truly even require you to break it to walk with Him. Take some radical mormon/lds 'community', selfless service on the surface and all, yet in deep deception. Some of those folks could easily require a similar type of 'covenant'. Yet since it was built on spiritual deception, it would be an absolute necessity to break the 'covenant' to walk with God, and the mormon elders would likely spin the same line as David Alexander (Derush). Now one might object that the Twelve Tribes 'covenant' is more true .. closer to the Biblical truth. However, with God's purity, 'closer' may not be at all good enough, His truth is holy and full and complete, and His name is fundamental, as even more so His word. And I would share that it is clear that the Twelve Tribes gnosticism, especially through the knowing dissemination of lying and blasphemy against the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, would make any supposed conceptual difference non-functional. And as one received the truth of the pure and perfect Bible and the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, one could easily be impelled by the Holy Spirit to move away from a supposed 'irrevocable convenant' of man's enmity, and into the truth and faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. At the very least, it would require significant prayerful consideration, since the truth of the Lord Jesus is majestic and paramount. Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic | ||
| rainy_day_woman Intermediate Member Username: rainy_day_woman Post Number: 194 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.131.36.14 |
Hello Julieanne, While I appreciate your concern for me, I have to admit that I completely understand the full terms of a true covenant in Yahshua, and what is involved. One of the first things I read which you posted on factnet said, "even now 18 months on i'd love to go back and have that faith again because nothing else has matched up to it but i don't think i could give up my life again." Julieanne, could it be possible that you never did give up your life? Especially, now that you imply you were "not told everything" before you were baptized. This is just something I would encourage you to consider, I don't expect you to post an answer. I once ask a brother how it was decided where a disciple would live, and he told me there is wisdom found in the counsel of brothers and if you really love your brethren, then you'll want to do, or go, where you are most needed. I also recently talked with a sister who confessed that she would not have chosen the community she was living in as the place she would like to be, but she was there... serving Yahshua. How bad could that be? It must be a big responsibility to be a shepherd, with the common good of the community always at heart. It must also be challenging for any disciple to continually surrender to their commanding officer and go where they are sent to do the good works prepared in advance for them to do. Faith in Yahshua to entrust himself to those who obey him must indeed be essential to fight the good fight with all those who have longed for his appearing. | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 677 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.218.32 |
"People who break irrevokable covenants are not believable to me." And just how many of those did you make to all the "Christian Communities" and break David? Not to mention the one you broke with your wife and God! So, in your own words...I suppose I shouldnt believe you! Oh! But I forgot that they didnt count... HOGWASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may rationalise and justify your actions(and all in the name of GOD!!!) but no matter how you put it, YOU ARE A LIAR, A CHEAT AND A ADULTERER!!! but guess what? If you confess and repent, there is forgiveness available!!!! | ||
| nabashalam Advanced Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 678 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 209.103.218.32 |
And RDW! You have no credibility yelling from the cheap seats! You gotta be in the game! Fans dont get a jersey so stay off the field! | ||
| happy2bme New member Username: happy2bme Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.2.105.71 |
I was just wondering if the elders in the tt knew david derush was on this group | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 714 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Anon.. "I think if you all stuck to the points honestly, it would work better for you." Anon... David Alexander (Derush) stick to the points honestly ? ... wow .. now that would be something to see ! Shalom, Steven Avery PS. Especially it's a cause on another forum David actually tried for about 3 posts to defend the TT lack of a pure and inspired Bible and the mistaken mangled non-name they use for the Lord Jesus Christ. His attempts were very short-lived, he skedaddled, (he de-rushed out of dere) since his positions are so unscriptural and full of holes and nonsensical (as I recall, he even tried to float middle ages Matthew and Peshitta primacy). The zeus blasphemy that he uses in his literature wasn't even the issue then. So honesty and consistency from David Alexander (Derush) ? Not on the foundational issues like the Bible and the name of Jesus Christ .. or the ongoing TT zeus blasphemy. | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 716 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Apologies for the dup post. That can happen with my Firefox plugin. David Alexander (Derush) probably has wide liberty to post for TT on the net. He has alienated a number of folks outside of this Twelve Tribes Factnet area, but probably Twelve Tribes doesn't follow it that closely, accepting his 'evangelism' reports. David also has floated absurd ideas (like Peshitta primacy or Middle Ages Matthew) that is not at all from the Twelve Tribes, afaik, trying to find some way to justify their position viciously attacking the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That nonsense he probably came up with himself, others not knowing he was floating such unscholarly junque. What is interesting to me is why they took such a horrid position keeping the blasphemous zeus attack in their literature. Obviously the integrity thing to do would be to clean up their act, get it out of the websites, and stop printing in new literature. (Even if they resisted making the needed public correction.) My conjecture on that .. David was told from higher ups to basically leave it alone, that they liked that canard. Personally, I don't think David is that dumb himself that he would not have removed it. David, trying to do evangelism, knows how propagating such a vitriolic deception shoots down his (two-faced) attempts to use the name of Jesus in 'evangelism', while attacking His name in other venues. It is so transparent, and folks on other forums catch on quickly. So my conjecture is that the higher-ups told him to mostly leave the zeus lie alone (its been a part of their shtick for so long) and that is why David came up with the milquetoast sop, smoke and mirrors, rather than simply being honest and true. There is a very basic deep dishonesty that he cannot acknowledge, confront or challenge. Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic | ||
| doug Senior Member Username: doug Post Number: 1031 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.125.94.233 |
from Doug to David A/D, I didn't know that Gene Sprigs has a degree in psychology but it doesn't surprise me. Some leave, of course. Some end up here on Factnet, blaming everyone but themselves for it. But most stay. This life is a threshing floor, specifically designed by our Father to separate the wheat from the chaff. Beat it, throw it up in the wind...the wheat falls at our Master's feet and stays here, while the wind blows the insubstantial chaff away. The threshing floor of our life drives away the insincere who come among us; it also drives the insincerity and fatal flaws from the hearts of those who stay...as we grow in trust and wisdom to let ourselves be separated from those bad things. I don't blame everyone else for my leaving. I thank Yahway for it. At first I was very confused and distressed when I left and blaming my self but after awhile Yahway gave me more and more revelation and I knew it is from Yahway and for a long time I didn't know why but I knew Him enough to know it is from my father in heaven and He who kept me from returning to the evil He set me free from. When i left I came back to an environment that I had been conditioned to respond to in a bad way. It took a little time and I was able to overcome my past classical conditioning in the very environment I was conditioned in. Then Yahway gave me revelation about how Messiah had walked back through the 5 books of Moses in time before the creation of Adam to the battle recorded in the book of the revelation given John. Then he turned me on to others with the holy spirit whom Yahway is using to save His people outside the Church structure "the Two Witnesses" spoken of in the revelation given John. More recently He made it quite apparently more clear to me why the very truth your community condemns other Churches about is also true about the community. I thank Yahway that He is good. I thank Yahway that He is allowing me to serve Him. I thank Yahway for giving me hope in Yahshua. All thanks to Yahway for all things. I have faith that He will save his elect from the strong delusion in the whore of Babylon and teach us what salvation is really about and not trying to copy a set of ceremonial laws and customs or past works that are now defunct. | ||
| doug Senior Member Username: doug Post Number: 1032 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.125.94.233 |
Just think what would have happened if and what did happen to those who stayed in Jerusalem/physical church where the temple/church structures was when Yahway told them to go to Babylon. All those who stayed in Jerusalem were destroyed just as all those who stay in the churches where Yahway is separating the tares/chaff to be burned. The Book of Jeremiah teaches many things about the Great Tribulation of our day. There the Bible discloses to us that there are two parts to the Great Tribulation period. In the instance of the destruction of Jerusalem, the judgment of Yahway on Jerusalem began in the year 609 B.C. when the last Yahway-fearing king, Josiah, was killed in Battle with Egypt. This occurred in the year 609 B.C. Yahway's judgment came on Judah because they insisted on worshiping false gods at the high places. For the next 23 years inclusive, they were in subjugation, first to Egypt and then to Babylon. Finally in 587 B.C., Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and most of the people were killed. The remnant was commanded to go as captives to Babylon. Those who went to Babylon were commanded to live fruitful lives, seeking the welfare of Babylon. Jeremiah 29:4-7 records: Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon; Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them; Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished. And seek the peace of the city I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace. This captivity came to an end in 539 B.C., seventy years after 609 B.C., when the horror story began. In the year 539 B.C., Babylon was destroyed by the Medes and Persians. This seventy-year period is a picture or representation of the Great Tribulation of our day. The forty eight years (587 B.C. to 539 B.C.) that Judah was in captivity, during which time they were to pray for Babylon and seek God’s peace for Babylon, typifies the period of the latter rain. The latter rain period is the time during which there will be a great multitude which no man can number becoming saved as the Gospel goes into all the world after the church age has ended. | ||
| doug Senior Member Username: doug Post Number: 1034 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.125.94.233 |
schmuel Do you think it bad to use the hebrew names and do I have them right? | ||
| schmuel Advanced Member Username: schmuel Post Number: 717 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.193.219.212 |
Hi Doug, Actually you mostly use English names. Jeremiah, John, Israel, Babylon, Jerusalem, Moses, Adam. All very fine names, and proper. The two exceptions are 1) the name of Messiah, where you have picked up the Twelve Tribes error. 'Yahshua' is not a name. His name in Hebrew is well-known, Yeshua (short form) or Yehoshua (long form). It is fine to use such forms for His name, as many do in Messianic and Israeli circles, as long as it is with the understanding of the equivalences - Jesus == Yeshua Christ == Messiah (or Messias) In fact the equivalence for Christ is actually given directly twice in John 1:41 and 4:25. As for the Tetragram, it is a common error to post this as 'Yahweh'. You have an even more offbeat form 'Yahwey'. Often this error is in good faith, a bit of ignorance, since the liberal German scholars made a big push for this corrupted form of the Tetragram in the late 19th century. However the traditional 3-syllable understanding, Jehovah (or Yehovah) is actually far more accurate. There is some good web material on this by a number of diverse sources, written by Gerard Gertoux, Nehemiah Gordon, Thomas Strouse, Carl Franklin and others. The most important issue is not to fall into the abject bitterness of the Twelve Tribes, disseminating a blasphemous lie in their literature attempting to besmirch the name of Messiah. The lie is disproven by all real Greek scholarship, the name of Jesus is pure and majestic, and the Twelve Tribes attempt to equate the name of Jesus with paganism is a very dark spiritual principality. Ironically they are so contorted on this they still will often (properly) quote scripture with the name of Jesus, for external purposes, or use the name of Jesus in discussion with those from whom they desire to (at least initially) hide the real teachings in their literature. Quite tricky, actually. Transparent, too. Shalom, Steven Avery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apolegetic | ||
| doug Senior Member Username: doug Post Number: 1036 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.127.201.139 |
Thank you Steve Yehovah and Yeshua. I knew about Yeshua but forgot. Doug | ||
| whereto2 Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 71.167.66.36 |
bump... | ||
| sabbathkeeper Member Username: sabbathkeeper Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 64.24.147.92 |
Pew!! Church pews or the farts that WW2 keeps letting out!! TQ | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 485 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Thanks whereto2, I think I like this one the best. | ||
| forestlove New member Username: forestlove Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 71.140.20.168 |
After six long working days,-as Daivd talks about- David still had the energy to be writing emails to me and my family at 1AM didn't make sense to me and that was just one little thing I questioned about the TT. I notice on here his postings are morning or afternoon, and I do wonder what the elders would think of David Derush being on here. I'm so glad we looked up ex members of TT and we did not move ourselves and our children into the twelve tribes of LIES. | ||
| forestlove New member Username: forestlove Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 71.140.20.168 |
they are traumatizing, and really had me thinking for a minute that my family not going to southern california was dissapointing God & letting Jesus down... We felt 100% positive about the TTs but then the Lord did step in and changed our hearts dramatically, and then not until after bad feelings for days and nights was it until I looked up ex members and I DO believe in what the ex TTs have to say because It was what we were already picking up on. Man if I would of known these people use to go get their members specifically from GD and Phish concerts I think I would of had an even better Idea of what to expect from them, here we were just trying to escape the illuminati and the new world order, but who knows, maybe they're in on it. Its all an evil plan to push people away from God thats all I know. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1700 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Very interesting... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/illuminati.htm | ||
| forestlove New member Username: forestlove Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 71.140.20.168 |
No one needs to live in a legalistic cult to know God's love, forgiveness, and brotherhood. | ||
| lets_be_real New member Username: lets_be_real Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 71.98.157.3 |
Forest Love, I had many wonderful friends in the community that came from those tours. They are people who were looking for Love in all the wrong places but found it in the Tribes.And now reaching there fullest potential. Our Master came for the needy. As we all know Yoneq has a great burden for the young and the lost without hope in the world. If you didn't visit and judge things first hand then I believe you made a mistake. Again I will say the community is not perfect but most are very sincere. As far as I'm concerned no better place to raise a family. | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 71.162.78.19 |
I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it as a "great place to raise a family". Maybe a good place to get off the streets or to get away from a bad lifestyle, in exchange for your right to think for yourself. If I were looking for a great place to raise a family it would be a couple of acres of land, a small house capable of running off the grid, and a network of freethinking friends. Maybe start a non-profit organization and purchase land through it to avoid individual property ownership and therefore preserve privacy. Then work on creating a network of locations like that, all purchased through the nonprofit, where people could live with a degree of privacy and anonymity and raise their family without having the State alway poking into their business. If your looking to dodge the NWO and the Illuminati you should borrow some lessons from the Irish Travelers, as they do a pretty good job of remaining anonymous in an otherwise very nosy world. | ||
| lets_be_real New member Username: lets_be_real Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 71.98.157.3 |
I'm sorry I must of missed it. I thought this thread was I'm so happy to live the life of Yahshua | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1704 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Hold on lets be real! He was addressing YOUR post!!! And the thread may be called "I'm so happy to live the life of Yahshua" But it doesnt say, "I'm so happy to live the life of Yahshua and only people who agree with this need comment."!!! Yeesh! What crawled up your skirt? | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 497 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
lets_be_real, What is it really like living in the twelve tribes? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1706 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Tell the truth! Shame the devil!!!  | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 498 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Is living in the twelve tribes like what David Derush says,or more like what Jody describes? Is someone lying, and someone telling the truth? Jody obviously didn't see things the same as David, but is someone right and someone wrong, or are they just different types of people? This is an important question, because they are both making claims of major significance. I would like to believe David, what he says is more beautiful and lovely, but I've just got to know if it is true! | ||
| forestlove New member Username: forestlove Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 71.140.20.168 |
hey nothing against people who like GD or Phish, but to me if I would of known just that little bit of info a red flag might of gone up in my mind that tt is a legalistic cult. We thought oh why arent these people reaching out to people attending churches... oh they hate the church... they're not perfect but neither is the TTS! I don't know for sure... I just go by what ex members say! But what really got us not wanting to even visit is the fact they discipline by beating with a balloon stick. You think that is how God wants us to "discipline" by hitting your (as young as)6 month old with a rod? hrmm... Oh and whats up with the TTS (David Derush) changing they're doctorine on wikipedia? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1709 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
"what he says is more beautiful and lovely" "Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." — Ralph Waldo Emerson "Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth." — Mahatma Gandhi "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." — Albert Einstein | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1710 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
and a few more of my favorite quotes on truth... "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -René Descartes "The Ultimate Truth is called God. This one can realize in the state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. A circle can have only one centre but it can have numerous radii. The centre can be compared to God and the radii to religions. So, no one sect, no one religion or book can make an absolute claim of It. He who works for It gets It." -Swami Narayanananda "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw and my favorite... "Tell the truth...then run like hell!!!" -anon. | ||
| forestlove New member Username: forestlove Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 71.140.20.168 |
JESUS LOVES YOU!!! PEACE LOVE UNITY Beware of FALSE Prophets And Hypocrisy!!! | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 502 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
The twelve tribes picked up naba at a promise keepers meeting. | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 503 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
They also went to the Billy Grahm crusade. | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 504 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
"spare the rod, spoil the child." | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1711 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Yup! You are bound to find a few disgruntled or disillusioned people at any large venue... BTW truth_seeker, How long have you been researching/stalking me? Im flattered! | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 505 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
naba, You invited everyone on factnet to view your open diary about your involvement with the twelve tribes. I don't understand why you are surprised someone read it. I simply remember what I read, because it made quite an impression on me, and now I am commenting on it. That's all... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1713 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
Well, most folks dont actually read the whole thing. Also most dont retain what they have read! I'm still flattered! | ||
| juan_a_bilbao New member Username: juan_a_bilbao Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 41.232.101.54 |
I think you should all listen to what David is saying . There are two types of people in this forum , the "glass is half empty" folk and those who see a glass with life giving water . It's a matter of perspective and what you want and expect out of life . It would be great to see a TT You-Tube Channel broadcasting videos of their way of life , maybe a video-magazine . You would probably get many subscribers . | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1733 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
Another country heard from...literaly! Long time Juan! So tell me John, why are you not drinking from that glass? You forgot that there are several other types of people here. Some who have just taken a sip of the clear, palatable water that sits on the top and some who have drank deep from that glass and found it to be muddy and bitter at the bottom and then there is of course the TT who THINK THEY OWN THE GLASS!!!! | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.38.243 |
I lived in the Twelve Tribes and was baptized several times. Although I miss it very much in some ways, I found it to be an unhappy and exhausting life. People don't need to work 14+ hours a day to make a community work. I lived in a vegan commune, and we only had to work four hours a day. It all depends where the money is going. It seems to me the Gospel of Jesus was early reinvented by the Roman Empire to "get saved and give us your money." In the Twelve Tribes it is "enter the covenant and give us everything you have." Formerly the money flowed to Rome, now the money flows to Yoneq. Why don't the Tribes have open public accounting practices? | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.38.243 |
I just want to say how thankful I am to no longer be living in the Twelve Tribes. Finally, I can be happy again. | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 507 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
I just heard from Colorado John recently, he says his daughter, who lives in the twelve tribes community there, is the happiest she has ever been. I guess it it's just like my grandmother used to always say, "It takes different strokes for different folks." | ||
| lets_be_real New member Username: lets_be_real Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 71.98.157.3 |
When your doing something you believe in with all your heart 14+ is no problem. I can honestly say when I was there I wished I didn't need to sleep. The Life was Full. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1742 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
"I can honestly say when I was there I wished I didn't need to sleep." Thats called the TT "Push Syndrome"!  If they keep you so busy working your butt off you dont have time to see or attempt to deal with the real problems going on. Actually I was raised in a family where my father was a "workaholic" and we never saw him and when we did you left him alone because he was so tired and cranky. Oh yeah! Thats so good for a family! Lets be real lets_be_real!!! They should put the same slogan over the entrance to their gates as the Nazi's did at their concentration camps... "Arbeit Macht Frei" (work will set you free!) lets_be_real, Were you an elder? intransition and I are still trying to figure out who you are, being that we both met you and you know us... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1743 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
Do any of these statements describe you? It is very difficult for us to relax. We often, if not always, feel the need to get just a few more tasks done before we can feel good about ourselves and allow ourselves to relax. When we do complete these tasks we find just a few more that we need to complete, and then a few more. These uncontrollable desires often result in frantic, compulsive working. We are powerless to control this pattern. We are so used to doing what we are expected to do that we are often unable to know what it is that we really want to do and need to do for ourselves. We often feel that we must complete certain tasks, even though we do not want to, yet we are too scared to stop. We often feel resentment about having to complete tasks when we would rather relax or play. At these times we procrastinate, usually wallowing in self-pity and self-judgment. We become absorbed by our "stinking thinking," cannot concentrate on the task at hand, and yet are too scared to give up the task for a moment and allow ourselves the space we need. Our sense of self-esteem is based largely on our perceptions of how others judge our performance at work and in other areas of our lives. We often think of ourselves as either the most intelligent, capable people we know or the most incapable and worthless people we know. It is hard for us to see ourselves honestly and accept who we really are. We often betray ourselves by giving in to the demands of people whom we perceive as being in "authority." We operate out of the mini-crisis mode, using this as an escape from experiencing our true emotions. We do not often experience true serenity. We have an obsessive desire to understand everything in our lives, including our every emotion. We cannot allow ourselves to experience emotions that we do not understand, fearing our loss of control. We have an underlying fear that if we give up control and allow our emotions to surface, we will become raving lunatics for the rest of our lives. We judge ourselves by our accomplishments and hence have the illusion that we must always be in the process of accomplishing something worthwhile in order to feel good about ourselves. We cannot sit down and just be. We often go on intense work binges with the illusion that we need to get the praise of our fellow workers and bosses in order to feel OK. We have the illusion that people will like us more if we appear more competent than we actually are. Often when we are praised by others we tend to discount ourselves as not worthy of their praise. We tend to schedule ourselves for more than we can handle, believing people will like us more if we can do more and do it faster. We are often dishonest about our past experiences and our present capabilities, tending to not mention our failures and to exaggerate our successes. We believe that people will not respect us or like us just as we are. We hurt inside... | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.47.254 |
It's difficult to do something with all your heart unless you really believe in it, deep down. Very true. The Twelve Tribes is basically using the Christian belief system with some modifications. I know some people there who don't even read the Bible. They just get spoon fed the Tribes interpretations of the Bible and teachings and do what they are told. I think those who don't question much are much happier there. I miss the people I lived with there. I found for myself, after leaving, that it was easy to go extremes in my evaluation of the Tribes. But, basically, I am convinced they are not the only work of God on Earth as they claim to be, and I doubt that they'll be the only ones in a Holy City of Heaven. The Tribes did help me to question my beliefs. After awhile I saw that much of what I believed was just beliefs. It wasn't based upon anything very substantial. I am more grateful now for science, because more of the time, it begins without, or without as many, assumptions. Religion begins with all kinds of assumptions, and if there's a Holy Book of some kind, people tend to be easier to program and control, because it's in the Book, and that's the Word of God. I work just as hard now as I did in the Twelve Tribes, but with more joy, because I can make more of my own decisions without a "covering" person. For me the independence and more critical thinking far outweighs the sense of community and brotherly love and shove. But, yes, everyone is different. Perhaps God has a purpose for the Tribes. It's a good place to be loved, criticized, punished, belittled, and encouraged. Several times members told me how to be happy there: "Just take off your head and put it on a shelf. You just need to receive your brothers and obey. Stop thinking. Just receive." It's more fun now to just relax and realize that I don't have to be perfect, and I don't have to bring about the end of the world. The Tribes are a long ways from producing 144,000 supposed perfectly obedient male vigin evangelists. Personally, I think it's pure BS, but like I said, I care about the friends I've known there, and if someone is happier in the Tribes, then that's great. It's interesting to hear what you all have to say. I had one more thing to mention. I think it would be great if the Tribes would have daily times to slow down, sit down, relax and meditate together. The life can be exciting there, but often tense and on a hyper level. Working hard and fast can be an escape or barrier from inner needs and issues that need to be faced. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1744 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
AMEN and AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 2503 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.255.153.140 |
i second that. sometimes you come across posts here that make you feel, well like some one said here a while back. "Ahhh, the crack of the bat"! (Message edited by fatherofaking on October 20, 2007) | ||
| lets_be_real New member Username: lets_be_real Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 71.98.157.3 |
heartstar12 It's wonderful that you still care for your friends there.How do you think they think of you? Do you Know they consider us dead? No matter under what circumstances we left under. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1749 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
Lets_be_real, So why in the world would you want to go back???? (Message edited by nabashalam on October 24, 2007) | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.35.51 |
To answer your question, most of the time, I do not want to go back. Sometimes, there is a part of me that wants to go back. Maybe because I found meaning there in certain ways that I do not in mainstream culture. Some would say I was simply brainwashed over time. I agree with this, and I worked hard to sell myself on it at times. Previous to Twelve Tribes, I had poured over the Bible for a long time with communal living in mind. And, often, I have not understood why I would want to go back. It troubles me that I would go through these sometimes intense times. It's gotten much better the last year or so. But, the mind-set sometimes surfaces. What has helped is for me not to get too deep into the Bible. Zen and some other meditation has helped much. Having a more open mind regarding God and religion. Having more tolerance for different points of view. Taking an honest look at some of the terrible things that have happened in the Tribes. Writing helps me get more in touch with what's going on inside as well. Another thing that helps me is too not get bitter with the Tribes. Maybe that's why I sounded too pliable regarding them. in an effort to not get polarized. When I first visited in 1990 and had doubts, I should have never gone back, but I did for a combination of reasons, and I kept leaving and going back. It's taken awhile to break the cycle. I enjoyed the gatherings, much of the music, people I knew, helping the children, some of the work, and I know it sounds dumb, but I felt special there and believed everybody cared about everyone else. I let this stuff really cloud my mind. And, like I said, I had this romantic idea of communal living for a long time. I could try to explain this all better or in more detail, but I think you understand. Do I feel like a fool, for wasting my time, money, and energy on the Tribes? Yes. Would I do it all again? Never. There are people that seem happy there. Happier than anywhere else they might be. How should we think about this? I figure it's more healthy to be more detached and think, well it's there life and if they really want to be there and they're happy, good for them. Maybe that sounds too wishy-washy. If so, I can understand. Maybe being more tolerant with such a person helps me keep my emotional distance. Because for me, there was some kind of emotional/spiritual bonding to the whole thing I can't understand. There were times it seemed a little demonic or something. I could never put my finger on it. If a good God really isn't in the whole Twelve Tribes thing, maybe it is they who have another spirit. Maybe that spirit is destructive. I've seen my share of emotional damage at times in the place. So, to be real, do I really want to go back, no, not the real me. Maybe their "gospel" tends to bury or kill the real "me" in people? It's a strange deal, the Twelve Tribes. Where would they be today, if the book of Revelation and Daniel had been left out of the Bible? By the way, I almost got bumped off here again. What's going on? | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.35.51 |
Sorry, I think I answered by mistake the question for lets_be_real. Anyway, the part about us being dead. I hadn't thought about that in awhile. This is such a good example of how some religions/cults/sects can mess up people so badly. It reminds me of all the times I was a guest and continuing to hear "Eric, you just need to give up your rotten, stinkin' life in the world..." Also, one of the reasons, I left and didn't go back, was that I have a teenage son "in the world" and I couldn't see him much, or pay child-support. More than once I was told to put him on the altar, like Abraham put Isaac on the altar, or was it really Ishmael? His first son. Either way, what garbage. Sometimes I would quote the famous Apostle Paul, "He who does not care for his own is worse than an infidel!" You know, it all started with Yoneq in the forest somewhere, without something meaningful to do with his life. Was it the voice of God he heard? Was it another spirit? Was it his own ego? Or a bear farting in the distance? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1750 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
FACTNet is still working on putting a new working system in so there will be blips of transition problems...not to worry... And Yoneq was on the midway of a carnival when "God" spoke to him... one too many trips on the tilt-o-whirl??? or a bad corn dog... | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.44.198 |
Thanks for the corn dog tilt-o-whirl info. Life is pretty humorous sometimes. When I was in the Tribes, I kept hearing how Yoneq was in California in one of the red-wood forests, when he was depressed and then heard the still small voice. I think the story is in one of the children's readers. The story might be called "The Sapling." Not sure. It makes sense it might have resulted from the tilt-o-whirl, especially if Aquila was operating it and had the speed turned up. I always admired Aquila for being the 1st disciple, and being from Yoneq's Sunday school class. This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't get it, how when you're in the Tribes you can't have a personal radio and no television, but now they have the internet, and when I was last there, most of the adults were using that. Some of the teenage men had to repent for playing some very innocent games. But, I could see the doors opening for porn exploration. Has the Tribes confronted the whole pornography issue among members yet? And, for being thankful for the life of Yahshua, I am thankful I don't have to endure another dance class, feta cheese, and baked squash night after night. It's also nice not to have rats coming through where I sleep anymore. I often would end up in single brothers rooms in cold basements near where the produce is stacked, unprotected. It was always a feast for the community rats and mice. You could see their teeth marks on the veggie's, and then we would eat the same food. I did enjoy the salads when I forgot about the rats. Sometimes, you could hear them eating at night. I have alot of rat stories. No one seemed to want to kill the rats, or build a tight place for the produce to keep the rats out. Mice and rats love the Tribes. I can see them on the run now, as night approaches. I tried to always pick a top bunk in the basments single brother's quarters, or trade for one. Do rats need to repent in the Tribes? And, are they thankful for the life of Yahshua? Is Yahshua thankful for the life of Yahshua? I wonder what the actual Yahshua thinks about the Twelve Tribes. | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.44.198 |
Thanks for the corn dog tilt-o-whirl info. Life is pretty humorous sometimes. When I was in the Tribes, I kept hearing how Yoneq was in California in one of the red-wood forests, when he was depressed and then heard the still small voice. I think the story is in one of the children's readers. The story might be called "The Sapling." Not sure. It makes sense it might have resulted from the tilt-o-whirl, especially if Aquila was operating it and had the speed turned up. I always admired Aquila for being the 1st disciple, and being from Yoneq's Sunday school class. This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't get it, how when you're in the Tribes you can't have a personal radio and no television, but now they have the internet, and when I was last there, most of the adults were using that. Some of the teenage men had to repent for playing some very innocent games. But, I could see the doors opening for porn exploration. Has the Tribes confronted the whole pornography issue among members yet? And, for being thankful for the life of Yahshua, I am thankful I don't have to endure another dance class, feta cheese, and baked squash night after night. It's also nice not to have rats coming through where I sleep anymore. I often would end up in single brothers rooms in cold basements near where the produce is stacked, unprotected. It was always a feast for the community rats and mice. You could see their teeth marks on the veggie's, and then we would eat the same food. I did enjoy the salads when I forgot about the rats. Sometimes, you could hear them eating at night. I have alot of rat stories. No one seemed to want to kill the rats, or build a tight place for the produce to keep the rats out. Mice and rats love the Tribes. I can see them on the run now, as night approaches. I tried to always pick a top bunk in the basments single brother's quarters, or trade for one. Do rats need to repent in the Tribes? And, are they thankful for the life of Yahshua? Is Yahshua thankful for the life of Yahshua? I wonder what the actual Yahshua thinks about the Twelve Tribes. | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.44.198 |
Thanks for the corn dog tilt-o-whirl info. Life is pretty humorous sometimes. When I was in the Tribes, I kept hearing how Yoneq was in California in one of the red-wood forests, when he was depressed and then heard the still small voice. I think the story is in one of the children's readers. The story might be called "The Sapling." Not sure. It makes sense it might have resulted from the tilt-o-whirl, especially if Aquila was operating it and had the speed turned up. I always admired Aquila for being the 1st disciple, and being from Yoneq's Sunday school class. This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't get it, how when you're in the Tribes you can't have a personal radio and no television, but now they have the internet, and when I was last there, most of the adults were using that. Some of the teenage men had to repent for playing some very innocent games. But, I could see the doors opening for porn exploration. Has the Tribes confronted the whole pornography issue among members yet? And, for being thankful for the life of Yahshua, I am thankful I don't have to endure another dance class, feta cheese, and baked squash night after night. It's also nice not to have rats coming through where I sleep anymore. I often would end up in single brothers rooms in cold basements near where the produce is stacked, unprotected. It was always a feast for the community rats and mice. You could see their teeth marks on the veggie's, and then we would eat the same food. I did enjoy the salads when I forgot about the rats. Sometimes, you could hear them eating at night. I have alot of rat stories. No one seemed to want to kill the rats, or build a tight place for the produce to keep the rats out. Mice and rats love the Tribes. I can see them on the run now, as night approaches. I tried to always pick a top bunk in the basments single brother's quarters, or trade for one. Do rats need to repent in the Tribes? And, are they thankful for the life of Yahshua? Is Yahshua thankful for the life of Yahshua? I wonder what the actual Yahshua thinks about the Twelve Tribes. | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.255.44.198 |
Thanks for the corn dog tilt-o-whirl info. Life is pretty humorous sometimes. When I was in the Tribes, I kept hearing how Yoneq was in California in one of the red-wood forests, when he was depressed and then heard the still small voice. I think the story is in one of the children's readers. The story might be called "The Sapling." Not sure. It makes sense it might have resulted from the tilt-o-whirl, especially if Aquila was operating it and had the speed turned up. I always admired Aquila for being the 1st disciple, and being from Yoneq's Sunday school class. This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't get it, how when you're in the Tribes you can't have a personal radio and no television, but now they have the internet, and when I was last there, most of the adults were using that. Some of the teenage men had to repent for playing some very innocent games. But, I could see the doors opening for porn exploration. Has the Tribes confronted the whole pornography issue among members yet? And, for being thankful for the life of Yahshua, I am thankful I don't have to endure another dance class, feta cheese, and baked squash night after night. It's also nice not to have rats coming through where I sleep anymore. I often would end up in single brothers rooms in cold basements near where the produce is stacked, unprotected. It was always a feast for the community rats and mice. You could see their teeth marks on the veggie's, and then we would eat the same food. I did enjoy the salads when I forgot about the rats. Sometimes, you could hear them eating at night. I have alot of rat stories. No one seemed to want to kill the rats, or build a tight place for the produce to keep the rats out. Mice and rats love the Tribes. I can see them on the run now, as night approaches. I tried to always pick a top bunk in the basments single brother's quarters, or trade for one. Do rats need to repent in the Tribes? And, are they thankful for the life of Yahshua? Is Yahshua thankful for the life of Yahshua? I wonder what the actual Yahshua thinks about the Twelve Tribes. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1753 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
That is some case of hiccups you got there!!! When you accidentally re-post you can go back and delete them if you do it within 15 minutes... also when you post and dont think it worked, go back and check! I think you set a record with 5 repeats! BTW! I like feta cheese and baked squash! But not every nite!  I heard stories about in Island Pond they had what they called the "Rutabaga Winter" where thats ALL they had to eat! Or was it turnips? | ||
| heartstar12 New member Username: heartstar12 Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.176.125.241 |
Sometimes I hear it was just some bread and water. Not white bread! Only a whole wheat Yahshua. Keep in mind, though, as I've been told anyway, "No one has ever missed a meal." I guess you can interpret that statement different ways, so let's get "The Anointing" in here with the meals teaching. Yes, I tried to delete the extra messages last night. Everything was jamming up. I tried about five times and then had to leave it until this morning. The messages were not posting, or so it seemed. I'll try to do better, if I have more to say. Thanks for the help. There really are helpful people in the world after all. Maybe you'll be "in the Nations" and not under too much rulership from the guys in the Holy City.? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1754 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
"Maybe you'll be "in the Nations" and not under too much rulership from the guys in the Holy City.?" We will still have to bring our tithes to them! If it were up to Yoneq, Id definitely be treading water with the filthy and unjust in the "Lake of Fire" right next to Bob Pardon, Martin Luther King Jr and Abraham Lincoln... Hey! I just figured out why Yoneq hates MLK jr!!! Its his middle name!!!  | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1755 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
While Im on a roll... Heres a great joke! A man arrives at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks, "Religion?" The man says, "Baptist." St. Peter looks down his list, and says, "Go to room 24, but be very quiet as you pass room 8 and 9." Another man arrives at the gates of heaven. "Religion?" "Muslim." "Go to room 18, but be very quiet as you pass room 8 and 9." A third man arrives at the gates. "Religion?" "Jewish." "Go to room 11, but be very quiet as you pass room 8 and 9." The man says, "I can understand there being different rooms for different religions, but why must I be quiet when I pass room 8 and 9?" St. Peter tells him, "Well the Catholics are in room 8, and the Twelve Tribes are in 9, and they both think they're the only ones here. (Message edited by nabashalam on October 25, 2007) | ||
| julieanne Junior Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 81.179.185.254 |
I like that, I needed a good laugh today. |
