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dazzla
New member
Username: dazzla
Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 202.156.2.36
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:59 pm: | 
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Is there anyone else reading this site that, like me, found Christ through Victory/EN in recent, post Maranatha, years ?
If so did you also find yourself with an uncomfortable sense about some some of the teachings/practices/behaviours expected or on display ?
After months of plucking up the courage I followed the advise of another christian ... "if there is anything that concerns you, pray, read the bible, ask the Victor/EN leaders, pray read the bible again and again seeking gods guidance to discern for yourself.
...and through that process I found peace at a different church.
I had no other christian reference point to compare to and thankfully God led me to this website 2 years ago and thus the process started.
Now .... my hope is that this thread will be followed by many posts, not discussing, conjecture or chit chat... but simply a list of questions that posters here would ask, if they were able to use the benefit of hindsight in order to gain peace of heart in Christ.
I'll kick it off ;
Discipleship:
- Why am i being given a "discipler" ?
- What is a "discipler" ?
- Why is my discipler not able to answer questions beyond that of their notes from classes attended?
- Why should I be expected to share private information ?
Finances:
- Why am I expected to give beyond tithe ?
- Why is it that when we have a guest speaker there is always another request to give money ?
- Why is there no active outreach to poor people ?
Church Planting :
- Can churches be planted without the need for being part of a global corporate church ?
- Why is that so many countries are on the list of places to plant churches when our own church is so small and diminishing ?
Leaders :
- Why is it that "the word" seems to always comprise more about the pastor than biblical references?
- Why is it I feel like I am attending a town hall session at my corporate workplace than being in a place of worship ?
- What is meant by EN DNA ?
Dating :
- Why does my discipler need to know, pray and approve of any person I have feelings for ?
- Why is it that no-one seems to be dating anyone outside of EN ?
I have a whole bunch of other questions but will refrain.... as I'm hoping others will add.
So many people are reading this site that need to gain clarity to the ill-feeling they have. Many of them are NOT leaders,do not have access to the top leadership and therefore do not get exposed to what many posters here have.
Hence the questions should be directed to the immediate leaders of their EN church.
I pray that this site will bring just one more person to a truly god filled home. |
robert_unknown
Intermediate Member
Username: robert_unknown
Post Number: 439
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 80.109.163.152
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 3:28 pm: |
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Good thread, dazzla!
Finances:
- Why are the main EN leaders salaries puzzled together of different streams of income, and why are they so exorbitantly high?
- Why are the most employees in the offices underpaid or not payed by EN and must therefore raise their financial support from others sources?
- Why are leaders like Brooks or Bonasso payed in comparison to the business-world, while secretaries and other office empolyees get payed less than a comparable employee in the business-world?
- Why does EN not open the books on a yearly or semi-yearly base?
- Why does a church have to pay ten percent of their income to EN?
- What does a local church get back from EN for paying ten percent "franchise fees"?
- How are the ten percent fees used?
- Why are some of the main leaders expecting church members to work free for them (ie. babysitting, cooking, cleaning up the house, cutting the lawn...)?
Churchplanting:
- What is the benefit of a curch/ churchplant of beeing part of EN?
- Tell us with practical examples, the advantages for a local church by beeing part of EN?
- Why are Pastors from other churches expected to visit VLI or the "School of Ministry" to stay in their ministry? |
bill_mack
Advanced Member
Username: bill_mack
Post Number: 546
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 67.95.34.234
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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Covenants
-The Bible says we are not to align ourselves with heretics. Why did MCM/EN leaders covenant with one another including with other leaders of the NOLR/NAR movement? Did they really believe that covenanting with one another as gaining "UNITY" but leaving aside correct doctrine to acheive their spiritual unity would lead to God's Blessing?
Answers to Questions
-Why can't these leaders come forward and answer questions regarding doctrine, finances, front organizations, hierarchy and covenants in an open format with video recordings. Why are they so bold when it comes to hoodwinking high school teens (Ron Luce) and twenty-something college students, but they are yellow-belly cowards when mature adult Christians demand answers??
Church Takeovers
-Why do these people find it necessary to use stealth and cloak-and-dagger infiltration of mainstream churches to take them over. In at least one instance, I have the actual paperwork submitted to a church that wanted to sell their building. The false leaders put language in the proposal stating that the former church would have to cease to exist and never form a church again as a condition of the merge.
Union With Rome
-Why can't these people admit they covenanted with Rome as well as with other heretical entitities in their quest toward an ecumenical orgy?
Latter Rain Identity
-Why can't these leaders admit they are the New Order of the Latter Rain (NOLR) and tell their congregants that they are?
-Why must they continue to lie and cover up their history: who their leader were when they were younger, what teachings and materials they filled their minds with, how that relates to the doctrines and practices they now employ in their movement, etc.?
Their Relationship to God
-Why do these false leaders think God will let then into heaven?
-Why should God not cast them into the Lake of Fire for stealing, lying, false advertising, fraud, involuntary servitude through mind-control, unwanted thought reform techniques identical with those used by communist dictators, etc.?
-If Jesus Christ took whips and cast out the money-changers in the Temple, why should MCM/EN false cult leaders expect worse from God when they set up a cult, called it a church, and then structured it like a multi-level corporation like AMWAY, SHAKLEE or any number of pyramids to shake down those who are in their "down-line"??
-Why do these false cult leaders refuse to admit they believe they are the "Corporate Christ" and/or "Many-Membered Manchild" as they take 10-percent tithes from their franchisees as though they get a tithe of submission as a Corporate god? |
genesis_truth
Intermediate Member
Username: genesis_truth
Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 203.96.117.58
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:47 pm: |
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Protection
- Why do the leaders leave their sheep vulnerable and unprotected and abused despite assurance that they will look after them?
- Why do leaders knowlingly overlook bad treatment of people in the church
Family
- Why is it that we are encouraged to spurn our natural family in times of need because of "committments" to members of our spiritual "family"
Leadership
- Why can't plebs raise questions of issues with leadership?
Church Structure
- Why is there such a focus on advancing in position within the leadership?
Character Development
- Why is there only one type of man to become like and one type of woman to become like?
- Why do we feel ashamed of our personality types in EN if they do not match the "perfect template"? |
osakadan
Advanced Member
Username: osakadan
Post Number: 532
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 58.188.10.120
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:52 pm: |
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Good questions Genesis.That family one especially.
Suspect you might have a lot of the answers already, |
genesis_truth
Intermediate Member
Username: genesis_truth
Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 203.96.117.58
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 9:55 pm: |
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Sure do but would like to hear EN answer some to see how they address them |
yeahihearya
Member
Username: yeahihearya
Post Number: 72
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 69.21.235.57
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 10:04 pm: |
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Genesis.......AMEN on all points!!!!!!!! SPECIALLY the looking alike & advancing issues in leadership!!!!! |
yeahihearya
Member
Username: yeahihearya
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 69.21.235.57
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 10:23 pm: |
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Why is it that all churches joined must pay a tithe to the 'covering'....including those in countries where the monthly income is under 20 bucks & the heads of the organization live high on the hoss?
Why is it that one is never 'good enough' for any sort of ministry within EN until they have been thoroughly 'discipled' & gone through there training---as though there are no other training good enough but their's?
Why is it so important to have a 'huge calling'.....sounds more like a 'in the spot light' calling to me?!
Why most everyone have a discipler....as though noone can walk in Christ without one.....the 12 disciples where only discipled for 3 years, they where all more like family rather thann someones project!
Why must everything cost over 100bucks to do or participate in?
Why is Rice removed from one of the 'presidential' positions due to financial missuse but yet given rights to still pastor over the 'headquarters' church????
Why not openly address all issues within the organization since everyone is leaving?
Whyy be affraid of this sight & answering tuff questions......if it is 'God's' ministry, can't he handle it & it not all fall down....is he not big enough?
Why did Pastor Ray McCulloghm leave EN/MSI, I really liked him & would love to hear this?!!
Why all the secrets if the sheep are commanded to confess???????? |
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