| Author | Message | ||
     mathew_morrell New member Username: mathew_morrell Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 12.73.198.185 |
In the 1980s, JZ Knight rose to fame proscribing a think-young/be-young doctrine of immorality, in which living in the “now” meant agelessness and divinity. Then, in the 1990s, her doctrine of immortality assumed a new shape and a new dimension. No longer was thinking and being the answer to agelessness. JZ added that will and determination are necessary---immense will---to achieve immorality, hence the establishment of a “mystery school” in Yelm, WA, which is a sort of New Age training ground where “initiates” practice mediation exercises, field work, labyrinth initiations, etc. Intermixing new ageisms and quantum mechanics with ancient Eastern philosophies, her new method for immortality involved breathing exercises that were supposed to open the brain to higher frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum. The result was supposed to be, again, agelessness and divinity. However, when occult exercises failed to transmute sagging fifty-year old faces---and they did fail---JZ turned to plastic surgery, liposuction, chemical peals. Despite over two decades of preaching her doctrine of immortality, she herself is undergoing rapid aging in what must be a humiliating process for her. Without makeup, it is easy to see why many consider her a plastic surgery disaster. The cumulative affect of her plastic surgeries is that her face has assumed a mask-like appearance that is common among aging celebrities. One of her celebrity followers, Linda Evans, has unfortunately followed JZ’s example, whose face shows indications of having received injectable fillers such as collagen or Restylane in her lips; Botox to fill out her cheeks; and tugging. | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 145 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
Yes. This also triggers a memory from the not too distant past. At an event I attended, along with around 1,000 others, "Ramtha" addressed a student in the school. This was a married female whose husband was also in the school. She was extremely thin, and R accused her of taking drugs to keep thin and suppress her appetite. He went further along this line with accusations, and coerced her to confess to her husband that this was true (her taking drugs). Ramtha slapped her face repeatedly, hit her in the stomach more than a few times, and screamed at her to confess. The audience was silent. I did not have the courage or strength to leave. I watched silently like the rest of the sheep. Of course, this would be said to be for her own good, in LOVE by the master teacher who knows best. If that is true, (and I don't believe it is), then one could also ask why that was not a PRIVATE conversation between the three of them. That's one issue. A hypocrisy (and not the only one in that school), is that as you mentioned, Mathew, JZ has undergone cosmetic facial work of whatever type. She has admitted this, or Ramtha has. So, why hold it against this other woman, for whom the same was true, PLUS she did what she chose to do, to be very thin ? Talk about judgment and the pot calling the kettle black. I could say more, but I won't. Enough. Maybe that gag order should also have included a list of Standards of Acceptability for student status. :::rolling eyes::: | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
A Spiritual "Catch 22" Some modern day teachers of "self religion" offer their followers handsome promises about bliss, empowerment and happiness. These inner rewards are assured to followers once they realise the "true self". The teacher of this pathway holds forth extraordinary claims about finding the true self while paradoxically making the attainment of this utterly impossible for the follower to ever achieve in this life. What some teachers do is expound the absolute value of attaining self-enlightenment (discovering the "true self"), and make strong claims about how they (that is the teacher of the group) have achieved it. Then what the teacher will expound holds forth the wonderful promises of self-enlightenment for his/her followers but contradictory statements made by the teacher will undermine the prospects of the followers ever attaining what the teacher claims to have attained. When a radical promise is held out to followers about finding the true self within, it is often the case that the teacher will coincidentally assert that this authority is exclusively found in the teacher and no one else. The teacher will imply that he is the enlightened one, open up the opportunity for followers to experience it, and then rule out the possibility of the followers attaining it. For if the followers could attain it then this would spell the end of the teacher's unique claims to authority over them. In effect followers are told "you must become enlightened" and then the realisation of it is made unattainable. This might occur if a teacher structures his group around an ever increasing number of spiritual levels or courses one must master. In other cases the teacher may render his own behaviour and teaching beyond any form of assessment, evaluation or critical questioning, while at the same time making his followers feel responsible for how he behaves and acts. The teacher may say "I am the only enlightened being of this age" and "I am here to change the world". Then the teacher may go on to say to his followers "it is your duty to follow me, obey me, and the success or failure of my mission depends on you." So if the teacher's message does not seem to draw in millions of followers, the fault is never in the teaching, never in the teacher, but always resides in the followers. In effect, "my message has not been accepted and it is all your fault!" The teacher is believed to hold the spiritual status or being or qualities of enlightenment, and his/her followers are boldly told to attain this same state, being or qualities. The inner knowledge of enlightement is held out to the followers, and intricate and complex instructions on how to attain it are often conveyed in a massive collective of books, films, and audio-files. Yet followers will feel diminutive and pathetic alongside the teacher, and will feel like failures as they never achieve what the leader has claimed he/she has done. The leader's authority can never be questioned or challenged and no-one can ever become what the teacher claims to be. In other words only the leader will ever embody the "true self". So while followers are tantalised with the prospect that the individual can attain the "true self", it never takes place for them. The catch 22 is the leader will always evade and elude the follower, and authority rests only in the leader despite the hint and the promise that the follower could be just as the leader is. by philjohnson | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
>>>The catch 22 is the leader will always evade and elude the follower, and authority rests only in the leader despite the hint and the promise that the follower could be just as the leader is.<<< Addressing this statement from the vantage point of a WELL RUN BUSINESS (which RSE is not in my opinion); businesses who WANT input from their customers. They have some form of "Complaint Department" established so that a PAYING customer can contact a Board of Directors, or some assigned employee to receive complaints. Also, to receive a timely response that is toward making the customer happy. RSE has a "suggestion box" that is rarely ever mentioned at events. Nobody is told what becomes of any suggestions put into the box. I have never even seen one put in there. I have never heard an announcement about how to have your concerns, questions or complaints processed at the RSE. I have heard that "negative energy" letters are intercepted by staff and JZ never gets them, anyway. Does that mean that the CUSTOMER's voice is irrelevant ? Ya think ? It's more like a totalitarian government. | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 147 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
My opinion.... >>>The catch 22 is the leader will always evade and elude the follower, and authority rests only in the leader despite the hint and the promise that the follower could be just as the leader is.<<< Addressing this statement from the vantage point of a WELL RUN BUSINESS (which RSE is not in my opinion); businesses who WANT input from their customers. They have some form of "Complaint Department" established so that a PAYING customer can contact a Board of Directors, or some assigned employee to receive complaints. Also, to receive a timely response that is toward making the customer happy. RSE has a "suggestion box" that is rarely ever mentioned at events. Nobody is told what becomes of any suggestions put into the box. I have never even seen one put in there. I have never heard an announcement about how to have your concerns, questions or complaints processed at the RSE. I have heard that "negative energy" letters are intercepted by staff and JZ never gets them, anyway. Does that mean that the CUSTOMER's voice is irrelevant ? Ya think ? It's more like a totalitarian government. | ||
| voidgate Member Username: voidgate Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 144.138.162.252 |
I have never even heard of a suggestion box in all of my RSE years. I know that if people have complaints it is regarded as "pointing the finger" and an inability to comprehend the teachings. The blame is always put on the student....even by other students. It is never put forward as the teacher's inability to deliver the teachings. In every other educational institution there is at the very least an annual assessment of students. If they really cannot grasp what is being taught they are quite obviously better going someplace else, better suited to their abilities, instead of endlessly using them as a source of financial prosperity. I know full well that staff in "The Outback Boutique" are very friendly if you want to pay them and are generally very unaccommodating if you have any complaints. (JZ's store in Yelm). The leader in this case most certainly does evade and elude the follower. I have heard JZ is not even very accessible to her staff. Her position is somewhat like the priest in the church...the intermediary between the people and GOD. Students do not even have Ramtha's address so they can post him their complaints. It is long over due that this disgusting notion of "channelling" cease and those who are responsible show their faces. Why would an enlightened being hide behind the face of a woman??????? A better name for it all is consumer fraud. | ||
| voidgate Intermediate Member Username: voidgate Post Number: 101 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 144.138.162.58 |
Can someone enlighten me? What is obvious to some of you regarding JZ's cosmetic input is not obvious to me. I have never had conclusive information that JZ has had cosmetic surgery, Botox etc. nor to what extent. I am ignorant of the effects of it. I lived reasonably happily on a farm prior to my RSE catastrophe (commonly called a journey). I have almost never in my life worn makeup, nor coloured my hair, nor worn jewelery etc. I rode horses prior to my farm existance and found most of the above a nuisance and in some situations downright dangerous. The kangaroos did not care what I put on my face. Thus I am quite ignorant of what one should look for regarding the proof of these things. Does anyone know conclusively to what extent JZ has utilized this? I heard also that JZ wore hairpieces as additions to her natural hair. It is quite evident that the audience is getting older. No one has successfully become younger. Remember the days when all it took to regrow a new limb was to open 10% of your brain? How many more decades will it take for the 10% to open? (Message edited by voidgate on July 18, 2006) | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
The REAL Catch 22 is, if you do not attained SELF-MASTERY, it is your fault. So, when you work from this starting point, the organization can never be held accountable for the failure of ALL STUDENTS. Name ONE PERSON, who in your interaction, has truly attined a lever of Complete and Whole Self-Mastery? I am not talking about doing anything at the Ranch in Yelm... I am talking about just one person who PERSONIFIES the walking of a Lord while still using the human vessel. (The Ability to do these things in your present, on COMMAND, anywhere, anytime...) Walking on Water... True Miracles of Healing IMMEDIATLY someone... in the presence of the masses, on command. Manifesting this or that, AWAY from the Ranch Immediatly on command. The key element, that was presented by Ramtha was, The REMOVAL of TIME.... so these things would be immediate upon the command from the LG of your being. In the early days, Ramtha constanly talked about Walking on Water, opening 10% more of the brain, and yes regrowing limbs when needed... immediatly healing the sick, with the REMOVAL of TIME. This is NOT airier fairy stuff... like fining a feather on the ground or having an OBE that can NEVER be proven. After the 30 years of RSE where is one GRADUATE? Smiles. The teacher is believed to hold the spiritual status or being or qualities of enlightenment, and his/her followers are boldly told to attain this same state, being or qualities. The inner knowledge of enlightement is held out to the followers, and intricate and complex instructions on how to attain it are often conveyed in a massive collective of books, films, and audio-files. Yet followers will feel diminutive and pathetic alongside the teacher, and will feel like failures as they never achieve what the leader has claimed he/she has done. The leader's authority can never be questioned or challenged and no-one can ever become what the teacher claims to be. In other words only the leader will ever embody the "true self". So while followers are tantalised with the prospect that the individual can attain the "true self", it never takes place for them. The catch 22 is the leader will always evade and elude the follower, and authority rests only in the leader despite the hint and the promise that the follower could be just as the leader is. | ||
| david_mccarthy Member Username: david_mccarthy Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.178.99.119 |
If teacher does not, and cannot demonstrate what is being taught, who also demonstrates the opposite… Then this teacher is a fraud… and can only teach fraud. When this kind of person proclaims to be a spiritual leader… What we have then is a spiritual predator and a fake of the worse kind.. In our corner of the universe it goes by the name of JZ Knight/Ramtha. David | ||
| in_the_zone New member Username: in_the_zone Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 71.56.236.247 |
David...I gather you still live in Yelm...if so, are there people in the area who have left RSE due to the same reasons being mentioned by people on this site and if there are such people, do any of you connect with each other on these issues? | ||
| david_mccarthy Member Username: david_mccarthy Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.178.99.119 |
Yes.... in_the_zone, I live and breathe in Yelm………. But the unfounded fears and taboos to speak out have infected this community deeply, After all.. Who is going to challenge the all powerful 'Ramtha" and his daughtren JZ Knight?. But the chorus of voices are growing.. I am planning a “Life after Ramtha” gathering in Yelm in September, in the hope of breaking down this wall of silence and fear, and to start a long overdue open public dialog, And just as important.. to help each other recover our lives, hearts and minds from the aftermath of RSE. "enough already"... chuckle David (Message edited by David McCarthy on July 18, 2006) | ||
| in_the_zone New member Username: in_the_zone Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 71.56.236.247 |
Well David, I think it shows a lot of strength on your part to stay in Yelm, such that you probably see people you know still in RSE when you're out and about, I would imagine. If I had been in the club as long as you and realized I had been duped, I think I would want to rocket the heck out of there and never go back. It take a lot of inner stability to do this. | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
Hi David... Well you are exactly right... "Who is going to challenge the all powerful 'Ramtha" and his daughtren JZ Knight?." And also, over the years when I was with Ramtha and Mafu, they BLAMED the STUDENTS... it is just as I have said, No ACCOUNTABLITY... Surly, out of over 10,000 people going to these types of group, they would have a FEW, who could PROVE that what they teach is doable.... AWAY from the protection of their centers. More Recently within the Mafu group, the message has been changed, no mention of Self-Mastery, or Attainment in THIS LIFE TIME... now, they are being prepared for DEATH, and the NEXT Life Time, a more glorious life. Smiles. Just like the Christians... the reward will be at death and in another life time. LOL... it is funny now as I look back, what a great Business Deal.. the Business of SELLING God - Realization. Smiles. | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
Did one of you guys just send me this??? It is very funny, someone sent this to me in an Email today.. along with a CRAZY Song about being a BILLIONAIRE... Is JZ A Billionaire? ------------------------------------------------- Fabulous wealth is a by-product of extraordinary mind. Learn the secret of fabulous wealth from JZ Knight,who has created fabulous wealth in her own life. Join JZ Knight for the first two days of the July Beginning Retreat in Yelm, Washington as she teaches the keys to Fabulous Wealth! | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
Here is the LINK... http://www.ramtha.com/wealthworkshop/ This is a link to the Fablous WEalth Workshop.. The music on this site sounds like JZ Singing something about becomeing a BILLIONAIRE... This is the BIG HOOK, in the Ramtha program... it is all about MONEY.... How to get it. Just like PT Barnum said, there is a SUCKER born evey moment. ************************************************ There's No Business Like Show Business.. The costumes, the scenery, the makeup, the props The audience that lifts you when you're down The headaches, the heartaches, the backaches, the flops The sheriff who escorts you out of town The opening when your heart beats like a drum The closing when the customers won't come There's no business like show business Like no business I know Everything about it is appealing Everything the traffic will allow No where could you have that happy feeling When you aren't stealing that extra bow There's no people like show people They smile when they are low Yesterday they told you you would not go far That night you opened and there you are Next day on your dressing room they've hung a star Let's go on with the show There's no business like show business If you tell me it's so Traveling through the country is so thrilling Standing out in front on opening nights Smiling as you watch the benches filling And see your billing up there in lights There's no people like show people They smile when they are low Even with a turkey that you know will fold You may be stranded out in the cold Still you wouldn't trade it for a sack o' gold Let's go on with the show Let's go on with the show! The show! The show! | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 148 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
When JZ talked about her manifesting her fabulous wealth via the Primus situation - she commented that she could have no limits and next she could be and would be, a billionaire. Sure, she can do that if she keeps collecting fees to tell others how they can do it, too. Do you know that most of her "staff" are unpaid workers, or paid very low wages, and that includes no insurance? I heard it said that if they wanted/needed insurance, it meant that they had a consciousness of needing to USE the insurance, instead of manifesting perfect health and not needing insurance. Okay...then why is it that JZ Knight has spoken to the audience about her multiple visits to her DOCTORS ???????????? Does she have insurance? Does she have a driver's license? Just wondering ..... | ||
| in_the_zone New member Username: in_the_zone Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 71.56.236.247 |
Lasy summer, I specifically heard Ramtha say the RSE monthly payroll is half a million bucks. And I remember thinking, that's a lot of payola...who's getting it? | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 149 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
My opinion: I don't believe that statement if her reference was for paying OTHERS. Not for one moment. | ||
| voidgate Intermediate Member Username: voidgate Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 144.138.162.137 |
I know that at least one of the regular parking attendants is a foreigner that is illegally in the USA. There is a deduction of the event costs for the labour. There is no actual pay and this person is on parking for most of the events. Here is some information a contact sent me: JZ was always shutting the school down for a month after the assay or big event in the summer and did not pay the staff for the month she shut it down. She once used the excuse that they needed time to tend their gardens. But I'm sure she never paid salaries during any those times. It was a way to save money in the summer and it really hurt some staff people financially from what I heard. It was stated at an event I attended in January last year that two out of the five appointed teachers were unpaid. (It was not stated if the other three were or not.) I know someone who worked briefly as outdoor staff (cleaning stables and general outdoor labour) and was getting about $8 per hour. I would assume it is the Corporate Director's wages that escalate the payroll. | ||
| in_the_zone New member Username: in_the_zone Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 71.56.236.247 |
The PT Barnum posting makes me think of something. Like in a comedy act such as George Burns and Gracie Allen, one is the front man for the other...the set-up guy, in this case the "guy" was Gracie. She set up the jokes so that George could deliver them. Maybe Ramtha is JZ's set-up guy. Ramtha sets up the sutdents to pay and JZ collects tha cash. And their business plan is simple: you lie and I'll swear by it! | ||
| whatchamacallit Intermediate Member Username: whatchamacallit Post Number: 150 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.182.97 |
Voidgate, I have heard with my own ears, from Ramtha, mentioning that the school had been shut down for one month during certain summers. This was without pay. JZ claimed she was so hard pressed to pay bills, she couldn't afford to pay her staff.I don't recall exactly from whom I heard that she said that. I may have heard it myself, but in this instance, I don't truly recall. I am sure I heard it, however. I just don't believe it !!! Is she serious ?????????!!!!!!!! | ||
| voidgate Intermediate Member Username: voidgate Post Number: 106 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 144.138.162.127 |
Perhaps JZ could find the cash if she sold off most of her furniture and household goods like many students have. Foreigners cannot take their possessions with them so they are forced to sell them if they make the incredibly devastating decision to move to Yelm. It is only the very rich that could afford to take their possessions. Some USA residents are in positions where they have to sell their possessions also....like one student I know of who moved from California and rented a large, expensive apartment. She went to the Beginner's event and understood the teachings....the quantum field will provide. It was unblievalbe to her how longer term students could be financially struggling when the teachings were so simple to her. She did not want to work and preferred to do her disciplines. About one year later she was running out of funds and had to move to a most unsuitable, small room in someone else's home. She sold possesions to cover her expenses and to make it to her "required" as many people have done. She also had no room for them in the only available accommodation she could find. Maybe if JZ is short of funds someone can put it in the suggestion box? (Message edited by voidgate on July 18, 2006) (Message edited by voidgate on July 18, 2006) | ||
| hoola Junior Member Username: hoola Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.125.85.168 |
Well, I am not a Bizillionair, however, over my life long long before Ramtha or Mafu, I have ALWAYS been able to make money. The Only SECRET I Know.. is Hold your vision, and then get your ego out of the way, REMOVE the need to control WHo When and Where, and then the ANSWERS to the vision will simply show up in your life. BUT YOU, MUST DO THE WORK, as the OPPORTUNITES APPEAR... I know this sounds strange but it does work. That is all I can say, I know the more REQUIREMENTS you have like How Money will come or WHO it will come from causes it to come slower. I do not do C & E... with the breathing or shouting or hand movements... for me, thoses things are Like Show Biz. But, long before Ramatha, I always SURRENDERED my life to God... Not Jesus, I was never a bible thumping Christian... When I owned my software company most people were charging $20.00 and Hour, I averaged $150.00 Hour because I charged by the Project not by the hour. I never MANIPULATED or did any of the NORMAL things to SELL the software, it sold by word of mouth by others who had used it. When I required more money, I just HELD THE VISON of myself making a bigger deposit to my bank account.... and I PICTURED myself paying all my bills and having money left over.... I had no REQUiREMENT of who or how the money would come. I did not make loud screams or yells, I did not DEMAND... AFFIRM... or DENIALS or do C& E... I let it go and just lived my life, almost immediately, the phone would begin to ring with work for me to do. If I have leared anything from my own life, the only anwer I can say is, I live a SURRENDER LIFE to God Within me, I did this PRIOR to Ramtha and MAFU... and I continue to do it today. As a child, without being a Jesus Freak, I alway lived in Prayer.... it was with me when I was born. My family was not very religious. After all of the hallabaloo with these groups, I know one thing, the small human ego, is not calling any shots, YES we can MAKE CHOICES AFTER THE OPPORTUNITIES APPEAR in our LIFE, AND HOLD a VISION of a want, but, the ANSWER of how our OPPORTUNITIES come to us for our vision and dreams... are way way beyond the control of our small human ego. At 50, I decided I wanted to open a small nursing school. At 50, with a MBA already, I went back to college, become certified to Administor the school. It took me 9 months.... I had to work for 11.00 hr in nursing home / hospital and ALF to be Certified. Think of that, I was making $150 to $300 hr and did this so my GREATER Vision would be made manifest. Today, 1.5 years later, I have the school up and running and have graduated 62 student, and guess what, we have 100% Pass Rate for the State Test. After I teach the course, I SURRENDER THE OUTCOME of the PASS OR FAIL to God. I do not PRAY or do any MAGIC like C&E to EFFECT their life. I surrender the outcome to THY WILL BE DONE. 100% of the people have passed first time they take the test... I have NO CONTROL over this, And I PERSONALLY can not take the credit... Smiles. So, What I have realized is, I was successful BEFORE Ramtha, and now, agan, after being away from these groups for years, I am still successfull, WITHOUT doing any deep breating, screaming, affirming, or moving energy. It simply happens. I have NO CONTROL. I can only SURRENDER my life to the higher power... what every you wish to call it... and it works. The only thing I know, is get the ego out of it, and Let the answers come. This is not C & E.. in fact it is REMOVE all CONTROL... live a surrendered life. I am NOT a Jesus Freak, I am a SURRENDER YOUR LIFE to the HIGHEST POWER within Freak.... Get the ego out of it. Almost totally opposit of the Ramtha group... and guess what, it works. Truly this is the only way I can express my life. Smiles. (Message edited by Hoola on July 19, 2006) |
