My family saw Carman on TV yesturday

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Author Message   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 427 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 1:54 pm:        And my daughter who is his avid fan was so exited. Carman is still reaching the kids regardless of his past, or his sins. We all have fallen short of the Glory of God. I wasn't able to watch as I was shooting my show, but my Mom said that he looked great. There was no darkness around his eyes, or shining out of his face. God can and will restore if the clay is molded from the Potter's own hands. It is not good or even healthy to still be mumbling one against the other, but instead take the same time to uplift each other in prayer. As I posted this before let me say it again right from the Bible itself. Psalms 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, but a judge. 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is SIN. There in is the words from the life spoken about sin, and that is to not gossip. Pray for those who you feel have done you wrong. So I too to will continue to pray for those here who have knocked my family, to even my friends in this ministry that I can, and still do call my friends. I will pray for you, and continue to pray for God to work in this ministry. I too am not perfect in any way, and I also will not speak evil against my Brothers or even my Sisters in the Lord. Yes there is a Godly correction which some might like to say, but it is only for going to that Brother or Sister in person, and not letting all the gunk out on a public forum. There in lies the sin of spewing forth Gossip. To know a person face to face is to then bring up the problems, and restore the friendship, or after it is spoken to then move on. Many though will always live in the past of another's life. Instead of living out their own destiny. I for one love Carman's music it is annointed, and the praise and worship CD is my favorite. You can't beat worship when it's got so much soul. I really pray that God can heal and restore each of your own dreams, and that you can learn by what you have seen. To then go and make your dreams a reality for lost souls to be won. I love reaching out to people knowing that the gifts I'm using can make a differance. I also said that I might even say my wingsy name on my show, and hey I'll keep you wandering for a while. At least until you can say the name of the show first LOL! It's a Mystery for now, but I am so exited about what God is doing, and I will be back in LA again very soon. As well as doing a couple of new shows in Las Vegas. "Gospel shows that is." I'm the comedian, and then the music comes in and everyone has a blast. God is opening up doors, and he can for all of you too. If you seek you shall find, if you knock the doors will open. Try it out. Do what the word says to do. It is so simple that even a child can do it, because they haven't lost their dreams yet. Better yet I dare you to try it, and see what happens. When you put your Faith with actions you can even change the world. All the best Wingsy   kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.192.201 Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 6:51 pm:        AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU THINK FRIZZIE AND FRANK WILL UNDERSTAND THIS???? GOSH GOLLY WE NEED TO PRAY FOR THEM..   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 428 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 8:02 pm:        Kookie I sure hope so, but please excuse me for laughing so hard. I have been reading all of your post, and in every post you use these huge can't ya read my word letters? That just cracks me up. By george I bet ifin they caint see dem der words of yers with der eyeballs. Den dey really do have a bigger kind of problem LOL! Or dey are in more need of prayers of a deeper kind that gits in der hearts. Some times God has ta tenderize us now and den ta git his message accross, but only ifin our hearts are open to the message know what I mean? So thanks fer yer enlarged reply, and I also love dem der huge AMEN'S too. I'll take all of dem dat I can git. (+: (+: Blessings to ya all Wingsy   ashamed Intermediate Member Username: ashamed Post Number: 381 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.79.95.78 Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 3:29 am:        hey wingsy,what show was he on?? i dont recall him on tbn!!   frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.225.128 Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 8:49 am:        Kookie if that (your comments about acting like God) applies to others, then it applies equally to you. If you are rude and loud, (your typing) how are you a good example or why should we listen to your "feed back"? Why are you at some particular liberty to correct or rebuke and only based on your personal judgments and not factual or prayerful posts then qualifying that others are not? I have not attacked Carman so I am not sure where your angst is coming from. Are you jealous of Franklin and his directness and intelligence? Your posts are an embarrassment, and insulting without the holiness of honest confrontativeness with a prayerful and pure hearted motivation. Wingsaglow, I agree Carman's music is anointed. I saw his videos on Paul Crouch Jr. program with the Schullers also. Those videos are older and the anointing on his ministry and himself has changed. Hopefully, he will come to a new place in his heart and relationship with God, and the people he may have unrighteously hurt or where there is no longer an aspect of compromise in his lifestyle, where it (the anointing) revives or he has a new anointing altogether. What is the title and the content of the TV show that you are taping? Is it animation or puppetry, music etc? Do you ever feel as though you are actually doing what men and women have reacted to, concerning your artistic expressions, which is taking a past character/person from this board and using him (his characteristics) to make money without seeking his permission? That would not be credible or ethical, hopefully it is only a misunderstanding and not something aggressive on your part. (For clarification, I do not anyone who posts here.) How is your husband doing at this time? Is he improving? How are you feeling? "You will not have to fight this battle. Take up your positions; stand firm and see the deliverance the Lord will give you, O Judah and Jerusalem. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Go out to face them tomorrow, and the Lord will be with you.'" [2Ch 20:17] "Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God. We have done so not according to worldly wisdom but according to God's grace." [2Co 1:12]   grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 537 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.135.113.48 Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:22 pm:        Amen - I like that and that is what I meant about being broken down before when people thought I was crazy. I watch a potter tell "the potter" story and he did say that some times the clay just get's so off and "God" has to apply some discipline to it. Sometimes we virtually are completely broken down and the pot is started a new. Kookie, I'm just speculating here a bit but I think as far as Franklin is concerned, he just doesn't totally get the concept of how easy it is to be judgmental ourselves while pointing at the other being judgmental and I can even see how Frizz feels this way about you. Bottom line is whenever we point our fingers at others we have to be careful. We may think ourselves sincere and I agree with Frizz on 2 Col 1:12. (However, sometimes later we see our own sin.) God is going to teach us more and more daily so it should be no surprise that we learn and discover areas that need improved as we grow. I don't know Frizz and I don't know where he/she is coming from but I think I understand some of Franklin's reactions and he is framing them based on things that have happened to he and his family (because this is a cult discussion board). He does not think Carman Ministries is a cult. He just disagrees with some things. Most of us disagree with each other about lots of things. The key is learning to understand each other when it does not go against God. I just think it is important to remember that we are all reading these posts from different perspectives and frame the content based on what is in our own lives. Which may not be what the other writer is saying.   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 429 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:45 pm:        Hello again I came in here quickly today to see what the post would be. Ashamed my Mom said that Carman was a guest on another guy's show. The guy is middle age, and she said he has dark hair, and tanned skin. I don't know his name as I didn't see the show. Mom said that he was a guest singer, and that it wasn't on TBN as far as she knew. As for my husband we have been with doctors all week long. We do appreaciate all of the prayers and are still in need of lots more. The doctors scanned his brain, and believe that they have found either a tumor or a blood clot that's growing on the left side of his brain. We are really concerned, but again by us keeping busy doing the Lord's will in our lives we are trusting in God to heal him completely. We will never give up on the promises of God. As for what others say about me, and their thoughts they do not know me. If they did they would know that it just isn't true. Again gossip is a very destructive tool used by the enemy to seek, rob, and destroy the moving of God. As for my new TV series yes I am using puppetry, and music, but with a whole new flavor never before done. There is lots of fun, humor, and laughter. I have become a real new charactor in reaching the lost kids, and their parents for Christ. I have to run again today to see how the editing is coming along, and then the shows will be sent to the stations. There is some stations in Nashville, Canada, England, Australia, to L.A. along with many more that are wanting to put it out there for us. So the doors are being opened one by one, and in the right spirit God will use our gifts to reach a lost nation. Grace2U may God use your gifts too and may you also reach a lost, and hurting people with kindness, and love. God bless you all, and Ashamed it's been a blast hearing from you again too. God bless you all Wingsy   grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 542 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.203.40 Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 7:26 pm:        Wings! May God bless you and your endeavors too! Know that you and your family (particularly your husband) are in my prayers and thoughts. I want to clarify this for some because it may be confusing. I love HFL with all my heart and I think she knows this. Franklin is very aware of how I feel about HFL. He knows that I have a different perspective regarding HFL than he has. I see Franklin as being in a similar situation as I was about his beliefs about prophets and the prophetic gift. Where I am fairly open about this now - in the past I was not. Also, Franklin has experienced (as he has mentioned) negative things that have occurred because of a false prophet. I have reminded him that God does not allow anyone to be cursed, etc. without knowing the end from the beginning. If we have to go through anything like this, God knows that ultimately, he has a plan to turn satan's attacks into good. Franklin also knows that I consider him a friend even if we do not agree about this or about Carman's ministry completely. I just want to say that I believe Franklin is a fine individual that is just framing things from his perspective and his history like we all generally do . . . even as we seek to be lead by the Holy Spirit. Does this mean that I don't abhor evil as stated in the verse that Frizz has posted. No. I just don't see either HFL or Franklin as evil. Along time ago, I had to work with a large group of homosexuals. One thing I learned in this situation is to hate the sin and love the sinner. (Not referring specifically to HFL or Franklin here - this is a general comment for all.) That is how I am trying to frame my posts. Yes, Frizz sometimes I get frustrated at what you say (whether it is sin or not - I'm not going to judge this because we really do not have a relationship - sure I have my opinion but that's something else); however, I do love you as I love everyone here. This is how I can sincerely state I love you even when I don't agree with you. (Franklin is a bit used to me doing this to him too. He knows I love him even though I don't agree with him. It's just our relationship has developed into a more civilized relationship. I hope the same with you if possible.)   franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3561 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 4:15 am:        I love you too Grace!   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 433 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 11:07 pm:        AWWWW! and with so much Love I too love you all. Now didn't that feel good? Thanks Grace as always for being a doll, and may God pour out his blessings in your life even more abundantly. May each day be started as a new day, and the past be burried in the sea of forgetfulness. Just like our Father does when we all mess up he's right there when we call him to help us clean it up again. Even when it hurts we still have our own steps to walk, and our own path to follow. So may each of your pathways be walkin hand and hand with God. Blessings. Wingsy   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.135 Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:39 am:        Why does Carman compare anything about Elvis to God? I don't get him and why does he use a capital for Jesus but not on the Holy Spirit? Yes I have heard that he read a Bible and liked those old Gospel songs and such of those but there is no way outside of the gates of Hades that guy lived a godly life. Carman if you read this web page would you please give some deeper thought or prayer to your including of Elvis the Pelvis with his many different women he messed around with and drugs and rages and such things like those? I thought what you said about God and the air and the heart, that was totally cool and the way you said it too. Why did you have to put Elvis in there and he is not a very good example in more than 10 different ways. Big ways too which I would not like to go into here because they are quite sleazy. Your second question and answer though that is a good one, a really good one. You are very smart aren't you. I hope you will learn to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit directly and not just rely on some inspirations or impressions and such things as that without the other. Ever think about the big bridges that you drive across or those cars you are in and how they are just millions of moving molecules and electricity and compounds? God is Great! The Holy Spirit Rocks It All the Way Every Day!! Mink   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.135 Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:54 am:        Why does Carman compare anything about Elvis to God? I don't get him and why does he use a capital for Jesus but not on the Holy Spirit? Yes I have heard that he read a Bible and liked those old Gospel songs and such of those but there is no way outside of the gates of Hades that guy lived a godly life. Carman if you read this web page would you please give some deeper thought or prayer to your including of Elvis the Pelvis with his many different women he messed around with and drugs and rages and such things like those? I thought what you said about God and the air and the heart, that was totally cool and the way you said it too. Why did you have to put Elvis in there and he is not a very good example in more than 10 different ways. Big ways too which I would not like to go into here because they are quite sleazy. Your second question and answer though that is a good one, a really good one. You are very smart aren't you. I hope you will learn to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit directly and not just rely on some inspirations or impressions and such things as that without the other. Ever think about the big bridges that you drive across or those cars you are in and how they are just millions of moving molecules and electricity and compounds? God is Great! The Holy Spirit Rocks It All the Way Every Day!! Mink   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 12:51 pm:        Mink, I think you are someone who has posted here before who always kept up with Carman's Q&As. Why? Titus 1:15-16 answers why Carman could use the example of Elvis Presley and why your mind twisted it into "Elvis the Pelvis with his many different women he messed around with and drugs and rages and such things like those" and had to post it here-- "To the pure, all things are pure, but to these who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." Recently, I came across a red forty-five record carrying case. My dad passed away last year and all that I wanted was that case and the old records in the case because they made me think of my dad. The records were of Fats Domino and Elvis Presley and other artists. Elvis Presley reminds me of my dad. When I think of my favorite Elvis songs I think of "Crying In the Chapel" and "How Great Thou Art", because these were most likely the first contemporary Christian songs I heard and they made me cry and reach out to God with my entire being when I was a child. This is what I remember when I think of Elvis.... but you want to poison his memory and keep people focused on this or maybe you need to maintain this example of your brand of Christianity up to hinder others. Do you know how many people still are touched by the music of Elvis? What of his family members? They may not have ever accepted Jesus and they may never because of comparing you to Jesus Christ. This is why your post is detestable and if you are someone who has posted before, it proves that the scripture is correct that those like you are "unfit for doing anything good." When I think of Elvis Presley and his death I think of a man who was hurting so bad-- his soul looking for something-- I think it was a deeper relationship with God. I saw in an interview that an evangelist's wife prophesied to Elvis that he was a bell ram... meaning that Elvis was going to lead the lost sheep to God. And that is probably why Satan went after Elvis like he did. Carman had just met someone who knew Elvis. The first Christian Network was being developed and many, many Spirit filled evangelists were being called. And even though Elvis died, he is still able to bring the lost sheep to God.... that is why you hate him and must attack him. I do not think most people knew until after his death the struggles and problems Elvis had. I don't think back then Christian leaders understood about spiritual warfare back then and that we must pray! Elvis died at the time the Holy Spirit began awakening His church. (Message edited by hope_faith_and_love on August 18, 2006)   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 434 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 8:33 pm:        Thanks HFL, and to add some more news about Elvis. I was a back up singer for an Elvis inpersonator for over a year. I traveled many places with him, and saw many people who still love him. His gospel was always sung in each show, and people cried their hearts out. When I met one of his cousins in the south, and it was verified as he was a busy guy on the road, but only one child was known in the public by marriage, but there were more. It was not only shown to me by the proof in the polaroid pictures, but also that before he died. Elvis gave his heart back to God, and was led to God by a Christian minister before he was found dead. Again there is a whole lot more that was told to me and my Mother, but I will not post it here as it's too hard to believe unless you have seen the evidence with your very own eyes. This man that I met was Elvises cousin, and he opened my eyes to what happened, and what took place to why. There was even a book that another Lady had written about that proved what happened, and the FBI had them all removed from the shelf. Never to be heard from again as she was paid off. Yes there are always two sides to a story, but I feel so blessed to have met one of his real family members, and my eyes opened to see the truth. Elvis died, but not the way you think he died. The public is fed only what the higher ups want you to see in the public, but behind the scenes was a whole differant picture. He did die, but when he did it was as a born again Christian. When it says be careful little ears what you hear, to what you see, and what you say. The Bible wasn't playing patty cake with us he was also opening our eyes to see the real truth behind the fake scenes that we see in the media to the TV everyday. Man I could really open up a can of preachin, but it's not my place to do so. Just remember that to judge is to make mistakes, and then to listen is to learn from them. Blessings Wingsy   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.228 Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:35 pm:        HFL I have not. You can think whatever you would like to and from what I have seen your thoughts are really off and religious and alos sometimes completely deceived. Elvis was not a strong christian; that is a myth. He was always firing and intimidating people and was liscentious constantly. I have watched and read an entire mini library of stuff about him because of my brother who was addicted to him and kept more than 8000.00 thousand dollars of memorabilia and records then discs. He wasted his life for about 6 years in a very disruptive fantasy. He thought about doing impersonating for a living and bid at auctions for old clothes of Elvis. I think I know more about Elvis than Carman does or anybody who has posted. Obviously you don't care about all of his oral sex exploits and his very ungodly damaging temper and the Bible and what it say about that. Being a back up singer for an impersonator is no achievement in my eyes. It is tacky and low class and weird. I will continue to see Elvis through the Bible and his fruit and his own actions. You know a tree by its fruit. Look at what he did to people behind the scenes and to the women in the world also. You know it is a sin to call evil good and good evil don't you? I think it is lucky and good news that he cried out to God at the end and God is merciful but his life was full of sin and he hurt or offended many people. Also he could not have become so powerfully famous without some kind of intense lust or sin or witchcraft in his life even if he didn't want to call the charisma around him something supernatural. He was more undermining to those of faith and when people scream and get hysterical that is something weird spiritually. Period Absolutely No Doubt. I think people who copy him are insecure and weird and have a spiritual problem and lust to be famous or rich. It is so unappealing. Why did Carman go to the Vegas Strip and get married under secrecy on the week of Elvises birthday or was the exact day? I just watched a program on Elvis and even prayed for God to give me insights or spiritual understanding and I could really see how the people were controlled and intimidated and how self centered and bad temperamented he was. He had a very negative countenance too and was very unreasonable and put people down. His dancing and his movies were not holy. His private life was not holy or devoted to God according to the Bible and there are many people who have critisized him honestly who knew him for years. HLF you are not someone I could even contemplate as a source of opinion or wisdom so your gun is only loaded with little blanks when you go shooting at me. The Bible tells us not to be friends with people who have different sins and especially if they know better. Also I do not believe that anyone who is really famous is normal and they all have psychological and spiritual problems that are not in God's designs or heart. Why do you chose to dishonor God and to betray Christianity by honoring lewd and phony men. What about the scriptures that say that there are people who sing to God and about God and who say they love him or the Bible and their hearts and lives are far from him. Did you know that there were priests who teach in the most prestigious Catholic boys school in the middleeast who came to America and saw Elvis and came back so shocked and offended that they called him that terrible and evil man that the Americans support? Akbar Ahmed went to that school and is a Muslim who is a political leader who trys to moderate and respect Christians in his culture and who is against terrorism and its ideas. His daughter who goes to Harvard has won a very important award in creating teaching models to stop young men and women from crossing lines into terrorist thought as muslims.   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.228 Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:37 pm:        I am a Christian and don't agree with Allah as the same God that we worship and praise. But to see Elvis through the innocent eyes of those who are educators and peace makers in another culture is a big point. Please don't defend Elvis and stop the propogationg of lies that he was godly and serving Christ. Can you think of very many people who didn't like the Bible and didn't know hymns in America when he became famous. He didn't live and he didn't preach it and he also did things that were completley immoral and lusty. You all will never in 8 million decades change my mind because I am blessing the Lord and know more about Elvis than you do or Carman does. Why would you want to honor the dishonorable? Next will you tell us that it is okay to be gay or for lesbians to get married like Paris and Nicole just helped? I am trying to find out the name of the church where that choir came from and I am going to nicely complain because that was immoral. Just because Mylon liked and copied him and got rich for a little while through him also doesn't mean he is of God or godly. Mylon was violent too from what we have heard, meaning harsh and judgmental and bad temperamentaly. He hurt his wife and people who worked for him were angry about his controls and anger too. I don't really look up to Mylon and I know Carman does but I suppose if someone loaned my his bus and made me think that famousness was all that or everything and I was Carman I would too. What about the way Mylon was with his first wife and backstage or if there was language and temper tantrums that would make a person blush. Most performers are phonies and I don't have to be in a pond of denial and idealizing people because you want to be. Doesn't it make sense that phonies defend other phonies? If Carman is all toghether godly why did he get tricked and hurt another minister too? How flaki can someone get to go to Sin City and practice "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", which is immoral by itself. Elvis was gross and so is anyone who is a big ego maniac who can't admit the truth about themselves to themselves and who also try force us to look up to them so they can make more money. You have to earn and keep my respect becuase those kinds of things have to be earned. You have to be like Jesus after you are not a baby Christian and you have to have the fruits of repentance and the Holy Spirit. Should I say to you, hey pop open a brewski, flip on E and check out the new Playboy articles this month. Careful don't park your beer on top of my King James???? You would go for that wouldn't you HLF or the others. You judge but say you don't and you lie about who you are also. I suppose you think I should respect Charlie Sheen and Dog the Bounty Hunter too?????? Can you live without ever listening to or throwing away your Elvis music. Is Carman a much bigger person and even could possibly be a greater person than Elvis? If he keeps referencing him and copying him he is degrading his own calling. G2Go Mink   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 435 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:26 pm:        Oh dear yes HFL I do believe that this is one of the same posters from before. They have a nice pattern that seems to follow them. Like taking everything that's said and twisting it all around to keep fighting, but hey Mink, I aint gonna bite. When you stated to me or to all of us as you put it and I quote: Please don't defend Elvis and stop the propogationg of lies that he was godly and serving Christ. I never said that he was Godly or that his life was a Holy one, but I did say that before he died he gave his heart back to Christ AHHHH there is a differance isn't there? Yup sure is. Mink many who are born in the flesh still slip and fall, and yeah their lives maybe not right, but then again who are we or anyone else to judge them. Yeah you can hold them accountable, and pray that God changes them, but as the old saying goes " You can lead a dog to the water, but you can't make him drink." Ya see Mink only God can draw each of us in his right timing not ours. Sure many are stubborn and it takes them a while to get there, but the main thing is that Elvis got there. No I don't glorify Elvis just because I used to be a backup singer, but again Mink you are so quick to condenm me when I was backslidden at the time???? Thank God that he drew me to the waters and not people that knock others out or I might have been drowned at the water hole instead of saved, get the water drift?? Before knocking others out read your post again, and I mean really read it, and see what you have said about Elvis, and to actually have met his family was a treat for me. I didn't have 6,000. dollars worth of Elvis stuff either, but I met the real family who knew him. He wasn't perfect, and yeah he messed up, but the gospel was put in his heart every day growing up by his Mom, and he is now with her in Heaven. Thank God that in the end he was saved by love, and not his past. Wingsy   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.228 Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:36 pm:        You will never change my mind and they were phonies with you. Who did Elvis lead to Christ and who did he disciple? You are in denial and you are in your own world. Is that pleasing to the Lord? Elvis was not a baby or a big vulnerable lugg. He knew what he was doing was wrong that is why he hid it. His life did not bear good fruit. It does not mean that God did not love him and try to get him into something ordained and safe. Don't mix up God's perfect love and Christianity for Elvis with what Elvis was and did. You never knew him and you don't know what you are talking about. You are also making him into an ideal or are a part of the icon thing about him in America. Why aren't you defending the standards and truths of our God? It is easy to feel sorry for fat, depressed, worn out, ill Elvis its another thing for you or Bill Gaither or Mylon or Carman or any body else to insist that lies become truths because they desire fame and attention and happen to love the Gospel and could even be using it to make money with out admitting it their entire lives. God does not judge on talents and record sales or entertainment does he? He judges on the heart and the fruits. I am not saying he isn't forgiving, but you have to be actually sorry and be willing to change. Carman doesn't know Elvis and Mylon barely knew him. I believe the fruit and the people who did know him really thoroughly. You desire fame too and you don't mind using the Gospel blended with your own ideas to make some cash. You also don't mind substance abuses and bad tempers, so no wonder you like who you do and what you do. Cleanse me of all unrighteousness. Wash me and I will be whiter than snow. Mink   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 437 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:54 pm:        Who is trying to change your mind? It sure isn't me. As for his walk all that I said is that he gave his life to God before he died, and then you jump all over me. If indeed you are not a former jump on everyone poster with a new name from Hawaii then why would you crack a whip at me for saying he gave his life to God before he died?? When you said this next section Mink it gave you away completely, because unless you knew me then you wouldn't try to bring up anything that you've said to me in the past, and here it is. And I quote:You desire fame too and you don't mind using the Gospel blended with your own ideas to make some cash. You also don't mind substance abuses and bad tempers, so no wonder you like who you do and what you do. Now that just gave you away Hawaii with a new name. Again so many lies you just have so much fun don't you?? Well keep on having fun then by changing your name and denying it, but as you said the fruit has just been seen again, and there is a core that doesn't change it's color. Wingsy   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 386 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:45 am:        minx, Your name wouldn't happen to be Mary would it? It's just you mentioned something in another post and earlier tonight I saw something that reminded me of your new user name minky hinkle and there were other things that seemed to point to the group/family that reads Carman's Q&As "religiously" to get boiling mad and ready to tie Carman to a pole and set him on fire unless he repents to them. There were all these little tell-tale signs that kept leading back to this group. Now for minx and the Hawaiian connection. When you posted this tidbit of info about a week ago, I knew you were "trolling" to stir up strife. No one took the bait... but then Carman mentioned the "E" word and it was all you needed to go after him. BTW, I also recall WV showing up last year when something was put up on Carman's website. It happened this time and sure enough she reappeared using her forked-tongue. The poison shooting from both of your mouths can't hurt Carman.... actually for Carman you are blessing him. The only reason God would have me to bother with either you at this point is because you are harming Jesus Christ, because people will be comparing Christ to you both! And so I have to say something. But, of course your hate spews forth. Know this, the last few weeks God has been testing you with the test Joseph did with his brothers to see if they regretted their actions. But it is obvious neither of you are sorry for your actions, therefore, God will not forgive you for what you have done. You have blasphemed His Spirit. What you are doing minx is likened to murder, you have done everything you could to willfully and malicously jeopardize people's eternal choice in your desire to destroy Carman. You have brought shame and dishonor to the name of Jesus Christ in what you have done. Your posts are detestable in the eyes of God.   minky_hinkle New member Username: minky_hinkle Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.130.227.92 Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:08 am:        UR NUTS! What I said was sincere. I am not doing anything you said andas always U are ridiculous and the biggest accuser or condemer ON THE EARTH NEXT TO SATAN. I have blasphemed his Spirit???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? U do not know the definition of that. Do you go to a real church with a licsenced pastor? I have not done anything to jeopardize someone's salvation and I do not have any desire to destroy anyone or Carman. You are putting on your heart's desire against Christians you don't like. I think "your posts" are detestable because you call yourself a prophet and you worship Carman instead of God and that is blasphemy. I didn't read something where Carman used the E word and I do not look up his questions every day. I believe and I know that God had me discover that question about Elvis. What Carman did was kind of blasphemous. You don't give a crackerjack about how wicked and licentious Elvis was or how ludicrous it is that people are making him into a saintly figure now that he has been dead long enough to change history for the profit of it. You also didn't manage to see that I said Carman being compared to Elvis is degrading to him as a minister. God didn't have you bother "for him". What a joke! Who is BTW and WV? You DON'T KNOW WHAT GOD IS DOING IN MY LIFE AND I AM NOT BEING TESTED THE WAY YOU DESCRIBE. You hear vicious ideas inside of your own head and call it God. That is blasphemy. A little mental too isn't it? Minx or Mink? Can't you spell correctly or are you casting a spell by accusing me with a little twist on the name? I bet you are a VERY popular person where you come from. "You are so much like Jesus"..... I can just hear his voice resounding and calling forth in these words you said God gave you to speak: :therefore, God will not forgive you for what you have done. You have blasphemed His Spirit. What you are doing minx is likened to murder, you have done everything you could to willfully and malicously jeopardize people's eternal choice in your desire to destroy Carman. You have brought shame and dishonor to the name of Jesus Christ in what you have done. Your posts are detestable in the eyes of God." Your pharmacy gave you the wrong prescription at the mental ward. OOUUH WHeee Girl!!! Too bad Carman won't email you or spend time with you over the internet. Maybe you scare him. I think no one is speaking because they don't want to be part of something where someone like you is constantly mangling the Gospel and where you are so hateful that the Holy Spirit withdraws and heals the people you are trying to destroy. I am not 'trolling' either. You are pals with the accuser of the brethren as far as I can see. Prey tell us Phillipians 4:5, how many folks have you led to Christ this year? That's what you are doing here. Not praying but preying. Sorry Carman didn't marry you. You are too old for him and too sick and he already has his mom and Jan for the May/December thing. Did you see Simon on E and what he was saying regarding himself as a husband? Do you think Carman would make a good husband? I don't and I have faith that God can change him on the inside to the outside. People don't change after marriage they have to change before. You would preach as a doctrine for a new church founded by you that Carman does not have to change and that most women are evil. Except you of course. Jesus is the Same Yesterday Today and Forever Mink   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 450 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 3:03 am:        HFL you are correct, and I know this because I had a private email from her asking me what's knew with us in the industry and my books? I sent her a reply and added things that only was told to her. She jumped on the bait and posted it all as fast as she could which proved to me that it was her attacking my family on here. By the way the email that sent her was not true, and was the test to see if she would jump on it and she did. That was a test that she grabbed at it and failed in being my real friend. You were right and that is her name. She too hungers for fame, but through her husband and her daughter. I never sent an email like that to any other friend. Just so that I could find out if it was really her, and it was. There in is the confirmation that I needed which also showed me that she cannot be trusted. She is not a safe trusted friend at all, but she fakes being your friend just to get anything that she can to use it against you. She is in fact is a viper that would love nothing more than to belittle anyone else that she feels is a threat to her families own fame, and fortune. To me it's a whole sad situation, and I never told anyone else but her. So again she can try to say that it's all lies, but I sent her the email, and if you read above Keep it True/Mink it's all there in black and white. By the way M. I've never done drugs in my life ever, and I don't have a bad temper at all. That was just an email that trapped you in itself M. So how's your daughter, and husband's fame ???? Yup thought so.   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 453 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 1:07 pm:        HFL there is another lady too that also was tested and I had forgotten until my Mother reminded me. It made sense to me and it all added up. There was only two people that I tested on what was being said, and I now know who it is. This person gets into everyones lives that is connected to Carman. They fool the person like they are a real friend, and then they let all of the gossip out on these public forums. This person really needs prayer to be delivered. Their whole goal is to still be in this ministry. They say that they don't like this ministry, but their actions say other wise. I am not having anything more to do with this person as they are a tare in the wheat, and they live for gossip. Be blessed today to those who I know are in fact my real friends, and a special thanks husband for your added message. We both now know who this is and will not fall to their tactics of being a fake friend to get info ever again. Wingsy   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 393 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 7:39 pm:        Wings, I just wanted to tell you how much I've enjoyed getting to see you and your husband on myspace. I've also enjoyed reading profiles of other Christians. Some of their profile pages are so spectacular. I recall one lady who travels to different concerts to see Carman. I thought she was so wonderful and I wanted to say something to her but I didn't know how. I think I have to be part of myspace and so it may take me a while to figure out how to do this... I think I read a post by one of minky's aliases who said malicious things about this lady... but, this lady's heart for Jesus Christ is where her sincere loyalty and support to Carman's ministry comes from.... I know that is where mine does and so does yours and many others. Compare our actions to the actions of those who follow Carman's every move to criticize and destroy-- not only Carman but anyone else who does not measure up to them-- it cannot be God because none of us measure up to Him. How does God measure our faithfulness to Him, if according to those like minx we cannot be loyal to each other who the Holy Spirit has used to change our lives for God? I had never heard of myspace.com until Carman announced that someone in another ministry encouraged him to do so and so he did. I admit when I first went there I wondered how this is ministry... but I have been so blessed by a scripture someone posted, or by someone's testimony or just the pictures of people's children, especially the babies... Sorry, but I just became a proud aunt and so I'm all about the sharing of pictures!!! Who knew sharing pictures could be so much fun!?! Just sharing your joy of a tiny person with everyone!!! This is unity of believers in a special way... getting to share our joy with everyone in the Body of Christ around the world!!! Sharing our joys is what makes us family on a small scale and it is what makes us family on a world scale-- the family of Christ. Blessings to all those who have been led to share their joy and to encourage others that God through Jesus Christ is where all this joy they have comes from! I think I'm understanding how God means for this to minister to His people... It does draw the more "rough around the edges type" who seem to want to crash in on this remarkable celebration of each other's lives that is happening, but we have to remember when we cast out the net as fishers of men that we are going to land some big fierce fish who may have been caught because it is their nature to feed off other fish... but, now that they are caught they may have a life changing experience... Remember no animal fed off flesh until after the curse of sin... All the music, or pictures of angels or flowers or scriptures or videos and music may not change their nature, but we are commanded to make the Gospel of Jesus Christ known throughout the world and so these Christians on myspace who some are simply their to share their joys of family or their joy of God delivering them through times of despair, all of these together are making a net and making Jesus known! And by the Holy Spirit-- by God the Creator of all things great and small-- He can give them a new nature!   julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 179 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 58.168.149.151 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 9:21 pm:        Yes, just like He can give us all!   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 454 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:03 pm:        Amen to that HFL. Myspace is a wonderful world where Christians can witness to those who don't have salvation. I have been uplifting so many wonderful new friends on there. That I wouldn't have had the chance to before, because I never knew them. The hard part though is when people from here on the factnet that claim to be Christian's come onto my site. They then send bad messages to my friends that I have been talking to about Christ. These people cannot be serving the same God that I serve, because they are being a stumbling block to these new friends. I have been really encouraging so many hurting people from all over the world. Even to places that I have never been in my whole life. These people are so hungry for the gospel, and it only takes one of these nasty slandering messages to destroy these new friends. They then message me that if this is how Christians are then they want nothing more to do with my kind of faith. This is devastating that people here would sink that low. Even to those on myspace that have enlightened me on some of these messages. I was shocked to say the least and then I tell my friends that the person who sent the message isn't a real Christian or they would never have tried to crush me on my own friend's site. HFL myspace is such a wonderful new avenue of meeting new people. To me it's like a mission field. I will not give up on new souls to be won for God, and no matter what these factnet people try to do. They will not stop me from encouraging my new friends and talking to them about my Savior Jesus. If you go on there please feel free to message me anytime. You are so welcome anytime to stop by and say hello. As for those who knocked Vada on there. Shame on you Vada was a blessing to many people there, and she also could have made such a wonderful new way of talking with so many hurting woman. Even to Carman's Mother I was so thrilled to encourage her, and then because of the tares in the wheat that was knocking everything that they watched to everything that they would do. Man that's so sick upstairs can't you people who hate us so bad just get a life of your own??? It's so old news, but then I suppose it's because you have no life that you have to try and destroy everyone elses like yours? I will still pray for you to be healed from your hurts to your venom, but I also will not stop telling all of my friends about Jesus Christ, and if my Angel storis opens up those doors for salvation. Then I am thrilled for the mission field is huge. God Bless you HFL, and Julia Your friend Wingsy No matter what others say take it and then turn it around into a positive.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 394 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 2:15 am:        There is a difference between fishing for men who are trapped in sin and do not know Jesus and men and women who are wolves in sheep's clothing.... Even as Christians strive to make Jesus known, we were warned that there would be those who come in our midst masquerading as believers but they come for one purpose and that is to harm us and cause trouble... For too long I have witnessed Christians on factnet accusing one pastor/evangelist of being these wolves.... but this was a warning about "sheep"! It was a warning for those called by God to preach the Gospel to watch out for those who are nothing more than wolves disguising themselves as sheep. My last post was to encourage Christians, but now God demands I warn those "wolves" that He sees what they are doing. Recently, I heard the song Millennium. So many Americans believed the millennium spelled something supernatural would take place. God spoke to me that this song is what echoes in the hearts of this perverse generation in America, who knew God but turned away and it is also the heart of these "wolves", who mock God by coming among His sheep, to torment them as they meet in peace, trying to cause them to flee... God said this perverse generation know what they are doing and they will be judged. God will not be mocked. Nor, Jesus Christ's salvation blasphemed by these who know Him but deny Him by their actions when they knowingly and willfully try to harm those that are His. For those like kit who is incapable of distinguishing the difference between a true believer and wolves, because the fox and wolf are relatives!   bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.144.206 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:22 am:        Would someone please write a short and concise post about whatever is going on or wrong with Carman? I have tried to piece together whatever the "concern" or "judgments" are, but everyone seems to respond to everyone else's post. So would someone just post whatever is thought to be going on? Thank you!   mercy_me Member Username: mercy_me Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 206.228.128.9 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 7:24 pm:        You are so right on HFL! Bachman, read 1 & 11 Timothy and you will know what is happening in here, to Carman, to his Ministry and what is going on in this world!! God Bless!!   bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.249.147 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 9:02 pm:        Mercy_me, um, there are 1000s of words on this topic on this website -- maybe 100,000s. All I ask is a simple answer. Thanks anyone else who cares to answer.   mercy_me Member Username: mercy_me Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 206.228.128.9 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 9:32 pm:        Bachman; I am sorry I wasn't trying to be a smart alleck (?) But to tell you the truth that is what's going on with Carman and his Ministry. More than that I don't know.. Sorry!!   kookie77777 Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.0.74.139 Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 10:27 pm:        gossip and nothing more than that. it isn't worth ur time to be a part of trash people say.   bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.240.241 Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:40 am:        Thank you, Mercy_me and Kookie77777 -- I know most ANYTHING on this board is a waste of time and like reading STAR magazine. But this Carman thread has been going on for years and it's like walking into the middle of a conversation and having NO IDEA what the topic is.   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.184.248.32 Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 4:59 pm:        Bachman the basic makeup of this thread is 3 camps. Camp A beleives Carman is basically perfect and nothing is his fault and will trash anyone for talking bad about him. Camp B beleives everything is his fault he has fallen out of favor with God and is bascially a jerk. Camp C you do not hear much from this camp ackowledges that Carman like all of us is human. He has his good and bad qualities just like we all do. They may or may not support him, they actually try to be a voice of reason and are not really tolerated by either camp. If you want to know what Carman is like check out his ministry history through articles written in papers or magazines, check out his website, see what his ministry has or hasn't acomplished check out his chat room(but tread carefully there because Camp A mostly resides there), but mostly pray about what you want to know and ask for discernment regarding his ministry. Just like everthing there is good and bad, base your choice on the facts you gather and the guidence of the Holy Spirit not on the thoughts of this or any other message board.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 395 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 9:57 pm:        friday, I assume from your viewpoint I would reside in camp A, so I want to clear up something... first of all I do not think Carman is perfect. I believe firmly that only Jesus Christ is perfect. bachman, Mercy me and kookie were really only giving you caring advice to protect not just you but against trouble starting up. I've read your posts elsewhere in which you have defended ministries you contribute to and your reasons for supporting them based on your desire to help fund the Gospel. If you do this for Carman, however you will fall into Camp A. I have read your posts also regarding the issues on giving. From everything I have read by you, you've never demonstrated that you felt that your giving entitled you with special liberties and special recognition with these well-known ministers based on who you think you are... Bottom-line this is what's at the heart of those in Camp B who accuse Carman so relentlessly of anything their minds can dream up and if you read through these mounting threads you will be able to recognize this is what has happened. To begin with it just sounded like different people were voicing their problems, but the longer this has gone on it reveals more Carman's innocence and it is these people who are the ones with serious failings as Christians. This is important to point out because too many Christians are like these and don't even realize what they are doing wrong. (For example read the Elvis thread to get an idea of how they believe Christians should treat others.) The most vocal accusers believe that they personally know Carman or that he deliberately blocked them from getting to know him personally, (Read posts by Ekklesia and EMS.) These represent Christians who have allowed the gifts of the Holy Spirit to harm or intimidate because of their human failings such as jealousy, insecurities and so forth). If you choose to read these threads pay attention to posts by keep it true, moral-n-pure/mortar-n-pestle, minky-hinkle, inspiration, charles, notafannotaenemy, uncharmed and you will start finding striking similarities that will make you think that some of these are the same posters. This is what several posters from camp A have noticed. If you really want to know about Carman's Ministry, keep in mind that unlike many ministries you support, Carman is different in the fact that he does not pastor a church. Carman is free for the Holy Spirit to use as He wills. It may not seem like it but God is now using Carman in a profound way. It began by first having Carman encourage those who had supported his ministry throughout the years to get more involved-- this was the motive behind members only. When Carman became more accessible this drew Christians like those in camp B who have "ferocious spirits" out into the open and so these that once caused trouble behind the scenes in his ministry, now had a new way to do what they do and so trouble broke out. Now as God leads Carman to step out even more and be more accessible on myspace it is drawing out more Christians who look to cause trouble. Thus the post about foxes and sheep. God is dealing with His people. So keep Carman in your prayers-- most ministers get this, but God is having Carman do something others have not, he stepped off the platform and moved from being in front of the camera to start working with those God has called-- which has exposed those Christians who are the foxes and the wolves. And this is why you are witnessing so much resistance going on. But wait and watch and you will see that all of this is because God is getting His people ready!   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.184.248.32 Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 12:03 pm:        Faith just to clear it up I do not think i ever said what camp anyone was in if you believe he is not perfect than you would reside in C. The basic point was you have people that idolize Carman, you have people that outright hate him and you have those that may or may not support him, but do not trash those who do or don't nor do they attempt to judge Carman. To be very blunt Camp A and B both are detrimental to his ministry.Point being someone is researching they come upon Camp A who appear to worship the man giving the apperance of being cultist, camp B makes the man sound like a demon. When many people are searching they are hurting, they do not need to be judged and condemed anymore, they need to be shown love that Christ commands us to show. I always go back to the woman being stoned she was caught dead center in sin, her punishment was death, however an amazing thing happened as Christ began writing in the sand saying "You who are without sin cast the first stones" stones began dropping people began leaving and Christ asked the million dollar question "Woman where are you accusers?" As there were none he replied that he did not accuse her and admonished her to go and sin no more. To many times we as Christians overlook the last and woops the stone flew. I have often asked myself why this story was put in the bible and the answer is so simple Christ knew what man was llike this was a reminder that no one is without sin, and no one but Christ has the right to throw the first stone. Camp A and B need to evolve into Camp C. If you like Carman great if you don't that is ok to but do not stone one another to do it.   bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.84.177.22 Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 3:01 pm:        Wow -- three different camps to choose from--A, B and C -- several posts, yet not one clear answer to my question such as: The person has been stealing money from the ministry The person bought an airplane (!) The person acted immorally The person is gay The person is getting a divorce Etc. I don't mean to be flippant but you all realize that there dozens and dozens and dozens of pages and topics on this ministry and it's virtually (no put intended!) impossible to find out what all the fuss is about. Although I have a LOT of Christian music, I have nothing by Carman, have only seen brief snatches of him on TBN with concert excerpts, so I always thought he was "harmless" -- until I see all the stuff on this board. But thank you all (seriously) for not really answering or beginning to discuss amongst yourselves. I remain clueless, but am most likely in Camp C -- I think Carman is probably (!) human, probably has made some mistakes but unlike mine, thousands or millions see his while only a few friends have seen mine. Peace in Him, Bachman   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 396 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 11:32 pm:        Bachman, It really saddens me that you could not recognise the different spirit behind those in camp A and those in "camp b" and that you chose camp c. You reasoned that thousands see Carman's mistakes, but what you didn't get was no one saw anything camp B ever accused him of doing. And sadly, I would have hoped you would have realized that none of these threads should ever have happened if camp B and C had done what we were commanded in Colossians 3:13 in regards to our human grievances against each other, "Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you." This is where Camp A's spirit has been grounded in all along. In Romans 14:4 we are told, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." Those in camp B believed it was their job to knock Carman down... to crush him because he was a servant to Jesus. But scripture tells us that because he is a servant to Jesus, Jesus will make him stand! So all their efforts have failed! And we know also that all of this is going to work for the good and glory of God! In 1 Corinthians 4:5, it tells us, "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will recieve his praise from God." Those in camp B believed they were called by God to "expose" Carman, but the scripture above reveals that God cannot possibly be with these people. So who was behind all there attempts to bring what was hidden (because no one but these accusers saw it) in Carman's life out into the open? We see in Romans 14:13 that "passing judgment on one another" causes a "stumbling block and obstacles"... and if you are being effective at winning the lost, particularly in winning young people and you had been called by God to unite the body of believers.... how do you think Satan would erect stumbling blocks and obstacles to stop Carman. By an onslaught of Christians judging him!!! You couldn't figure out what all the fuss is about... You couldn't find one concrete thing that Carman has done wrong.... That's why you kept asking. The thing about Camp A, is our spirits cannot repeat the "dark deeds" that these people have done to accuse Carman-- not even to give you a simple answer.... You said, "Carman is probably (!) human, probably has made some mistakes but unlike mine, thousands or millions see his while only a few friends have seen mind." You are wrong because millions nor even thousands ever saw anything these people have accused him of doing! And get this, none of these were ever his friends! I struggle to keep defending Carman because of the accusations by people like friday, but it is as God leads me to write these posts that God convinces me how wrong those who accuse Carman are and how innocent Carman is and why all of this is happening as it has, is for God's purpose.   kookie77777 Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.0.74.139 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 9:24 am:        I really feel someone is trying to stirr up trouble. gossip is gossip and no one will give an account for carman but carman himself.. so why stir the pot bachman?? why.. just leave this all alone hopefully this gossip will die.   zebra Intermediate Member Username: zebra Post Number: 236 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.145.242.41 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 10:11 am:        Wingsaglow: In your above Post # 454, I believe you have shown us a picture of yourself. I have taken a few of your statements to help paint that picture. 1. "My space is a wonderful world..." Perhaps, it became a wonderful world to you, only after C registered on Myspace. 2. "I have been uplifting..." I can see you have great humility from this statement. 3. "Shame on you Vada..." Perhaps, a Freudian slip. Why did V unsubscribe from Myspace if it is so great? 4. "These people cannot be serving the same God that I serve..." Herein lies your problem. Many are not serving the same god that you serve. 5. ..."can't you people who hate us so bad"... I'm sure that many in Jesus day felt the same way when he pointed them in the right direction. 6. ..."I suppose it's because you have no life"... Your certainly not judgmental of others. Your not unlike many of the girls from the paid chat site. Zebra   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.184.248.32 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 10:59 am:        Faith why do you find it neccasssary to twist everthing I say. Actually reading your post that seems to be a constant theme with you for those that do not agree with your viewpoint. Never once did I make accucastions about Carman. If anything I defended him. I said he has made mistakes he is human. It is not my place to judge his mistakes or anyone elses. For All have fallen short of the Glory of God. Romans 3:23 Faith while I appreciate your right to your viewpoints and I respect your feelings that does not give you the right to tear others down behind the words God told me, While God may speak to you the God I serve did not come into this world to condemn it but to save it. My sole purpose in writting on this board was to have everyone stop and take a look at what they were doing and the harm that is being caused by it. I love you in the Lord, and will continue to pray GOd's blessings on all, but I will not be drawn into a fight that serves no purpose, anger and name calling is not of the Lord and I will have no part in it. My final word to you faith is just as I do not know the intent of your heart you do not know mine Judge not least you be judged.   bachman Member Username: bachman Post Number: 63 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 162.83.146.36 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 11:07 am:        hope_faith_and_love, I thought "Group C" was the RIGHT answer! Camp A beleives Carman is basically perfect and nothing is his fault and will trash anyone for talking bad about him. (I DON'T KNOW THE MAN AND NO ONE IS PERFECT EXPECT CHRIST, SO I CAN'T BE PART OF THIS CAMP.) Camp B beleives everything is his fault he has fallen out of favor with God and is bascially a jerk. (AGAIN, BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I CAN'T BE IN THIS CAMP.) Camp C you do not hear much from this camp ackowledges that Carman like all of us is human. He has his good and bad qualities just like we all do. They may or may not support him, they actually try to be a voice of reason and are not really tolerated by either camp. (SO THIS WAS MY CHOICE BECAUSE I'm GUESSING HE'S HUMAN (!)--) You are right in that I wrote that whatever he did, thousands/millions (TV) may have seen it while my mistakes are seen by only a few -- I wrote in error because I was ASSUMING he had "done something" but you're right: I have no information but I was guessing from all the posts that "something" had happened. So I apologize for that. I am now in a NEW CAMP: Camp D for "duh" -- those who have no idea what may or may not have happened but know that they should not poke their nose into these type of discussions because I don't know or have any interest in Carman. Now, if it was one of the ministries I support, I would have spoke up in his defense as many of you have. kookie77777, I sincerely was only asking--it was a question and this pot has been simmering for years. I certainly didn't want to add to it -- just curious "what was cooking" if anything. But is sounds like it's NOTHING but gossip so you're right, I'll leave it alone. (Of course, it will STILL be cooking but I won't be lifting the lid!) Bachman (reporting from Camp D--anyone care to join me?)   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 397 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 11:45 pm:        Friday, Judge not less you be judged was the gist of my post. Are you not judging the women in Carman's chatroom when you warn bachman "tread carefully there because Camp A mostly resides there" In spite of your greater understanding on judging others, you still judged falsely that "Camp A beleives Carman is basically perfect and nothing is his fault and will trash anyone for talking bad about him." Now you judge that I twist your words around as I do in all of my posts in which you say you now see I turn people's words around. Is this true? After my first post to you, did you not come back and "trash" me? Am I now wrong to assume that this is not what you meant by how "innocent" people like you who do not want to stir up trouble get "trashed" wrongfully? But, is that not why you're here, to stir up trouble? Behold a "wolf". A wolf says he means no harm, but in fact he means to do just that. A wolf deceives! So does this make me a camper in camp A? Although many of them may want to run me out because they are leery and guarded and with due reason. But basically I agree with Camp A. The most loyal ones in that camp I've found to be very grounded in the Word of God. Friday, I have to point out that you took the first opportunity you could to slander them to bachman, although it was not your first time to try and do so here. Unlike your camp, Camp A's manner is far more Biblically "accurate" revealing the Holy Spirit is with them. Camp C's spiritual understanding is limited to "we all make mistakes"-- or was that just the "wool" hiding your wolfish approach Thanksgiving? God had me to agree with you that no one is perfect because God was testing you-- and you've have shown yourself to be what you are a wolf. What God did not have me to add Thanksgiving was that I also believe that by the Holy Spirit God perfects us and makes us Holy. Despite your claim of repentance of going into the chatroom to stir up trouble, it is obvious this is what you still are doing.... It is this kind of false testimony that Paul was warning us about! God said this is another characteristic of the wolf in sheeps clothing that Paul warned us about. Unlike, camp C who has limited understanding, camp A learns. Notice, friday, even though you belong to Jesus, you actions are not of a sheep but a predator of those who belong to Jesus. Camp B already thinks they are "perfect" and they are an example of what Jesus warned us against becoming. Their righteousness however does not even measure up to the Saducees and teachers of the law. It appears they are completely corrupted. Camp D is innocent and for the moment slow to recognize the move of God. Bachman I tried to explain to you what was going on with this ministry and why the defending of this ministry is so different from the ministries you defend. God is moving here and perhaps you being drawn here is proof that God means for this to go beyond just those who are familiar with Carman's ministry.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 398 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 11:56 pm:        Bachman, I know I sound "pretentious", but God tells me that its only pretentious if what I say He is doing doesn't happen.... So here goes.... As I wrote to friday, to view Christianity as "we all make mistakes" and none of us are perfect is limited... For God called us to be holy as He is holy. This is what God taught me holiness is--- To understand as He understands. To understand His Words, and live them, not by our control but by the transforming of our very spirits until we become holy and we then can apply accurately to all that we do, think and speak. None of us are there! This takes the move of God. Jesus warned us that unless our righteousness surpasses the Pharisees and the teachers of the law we would not enter the kingdom of heaven. What were their righteousness like? We see them trying to trap Jesus into judging someone before the appointed time. I only hear "judge not less ye be judged" from those in camp b and c when what they say has been exposed as false and then they resort to the human falacies of hiding their wrong with trying to trap those who judged accurately with judge not to stop them from exposing what is true and holy. God taught me not to ignore what these people do, but to use it to teach what was True-- this is what Jesus did! So that is what my posts do. Jesus said but if He were to make a judgement it would be an accurate one. That is why God had me to wait and allow friday to reveal his true purpose. We know that judging someone before "the appointed time" causes obstacles.... And this is what factnet and other websites do when they judge ministries. They are causing obstacles. These ministries hunt for anything they can find to sway others that these men and women are those the Bible warned against. Meanwhile, those who are, they do not even bother with. Things are growing worse for Christians. The name of Jesus is being removed from America. Jesus has been removed from the Christmas Holiday by stores. All over those who are violent and members of gangs but their persuasion of faith is Christian. But we have people like trsinheaven and marta so busy battling ministries like Creflo Dollar's or Paula White's who want to keep the focus on what is "true" about each of us, that we are sinners... sinners who are moving toward perfection and holiness. God wants to free these ministries from these obstacles, by making us holy as Jesus was holy. Then we will all be in the same camp.   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 458 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 12:06 am:        Oh Zebra it is you who needs to get a life. Instead of trying to read myspace site. As for saying shame on you I wasn't talking to Vada, but to those who bothered gossiping so much about what she watches to even if she blew her nose on that site. I will repeat it again shame on you for even now trying to pick appart my site there. Go figure and as for Carman please grow up. He isn't even on my site if you even cared to really look hello? Don't you have a life of your own? Then why are you so busy in every one elses business? Next time why don't you get a site of your own there. Instead of picking on Christians who are telling others about Christ? You live for gossip and it's all so old news. If any new Christians came here they'd feel just as sick as I did. Again when it comes to Vada yeah shame on the people like you who like to ditch us for being there, and as for her site coming down. Thanks to gossiping people who like you really don't have a life. All that you do is read what you want to read, and then spew it like vommit. Again Zebra if you don't have anything nice to say then don't bother saying anything at all. Your words don't uplift, but still you like to call us out just to feed your sick kinds of games. Better yet Zebra instead of picking appart my site, and what I say to even what I do which is my business right? I don't live in your back yard garbage cans which I'm sure is filled full to overflowing. that's why you have to live in others. I for one will be the first to say that I am not perfect, but at least I do have a life that doesn't contain your lives gossip. I don't like the taste of vommit in my mouth. wingsy   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 459 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 12:32 am:        Here is a reply to each nasty thing you've said, and the only picture that you have showed is your hate for any of us who have stood up for the ministry. Only because you are the real one who is a wanna be. You'd do anything to just be in breathing space of Carman. Come on fess up we all know it's true. Now let me see what the trash is that you have said this time about me. Wingsy In your above Post # 454, I believe you have shown us a picture of yourself. I have taken a few of your statements to help paint that picture. (Now Zebra you're still mixing up your true colors again) 1. "My space is a wonderful world..." Perhaps, it became a wonderful world to you, only after C registered on Myspace. (Again Z more lies just look to see who my friends are. He's not even on my site hello? You do live for your false comments though don't you? Now your again showing your true colors.) 2. "I have been uplifting..." I can see you have great humility from this statement. (Yes I do have humility for others there who are my friends, but for you just prayer. You really are in need of some good therapy. To get your own life and not still trying to live it through others.) 3. "Shame on you Vada..." Perhaps, a Freudian slip. Why did V unsubscribe from Myspace if it is so great? (Why don't you ask her yourself your so up on us all there right? as for the shame on you that was directed to people like you and not Vada Gees! but thanks for the funny Z.) 4. "These people cannot be serving the same God that I serve..." Herein lies your problem. Many are not serving the same god that you serve. (Nor yours either Z. Your's is in the gossip of other's lives.) 5. ..."can't you people who hate us so bad"... I'm sure that many in Jesus day felt the same way when he pointed them in the right direction.(Yeah but when they don't stop gossiping about others lives. Then the three fingers are still pointing right back at them.) 6. ..."I suppose it's because you have no life"... Your certainly not judgmental of others. Your not unlike many of the girls from the paid chat site. (Please don't insult the chat ladies even though I'm not one of them, and again to pick on them for supporting C again shows where your true colors are. You are just mad, because you feel you can judge us all on here, and when we bring back a remark at you. You just can't take it can yeah? So I'll just leave the judgmental of others up to you, because you're just so good at it.) While your over on my site to others like Carman's, and any other person that has a myspace site. Instead of being judgmental to others, and myself. Why don't you take up knitting, or hey! even painting, but please use real colors, because when a brush gets dirty in some one elses paint it'll really ruin the real picture. wingsy   zebra Intermediate Member Username: zebra Post Number: 237 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.161.63.181 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 9:11 am:        Wingsaglow: In your above post # 434, you stated the following, "Just remember that to judge is to make mistakes,"... I can see that you understand fully what you are saying. (lol) Also, in post # 458, you stated, "Again Zebra if you don't have anything nice to say then don't bother saying anything at all." This once again points out the hypocracy of your thinking. You give advice but rarely follow the advice you have given. Perhaps, those who blindly follow a (man) are not required to follow their own advice. I can see that you are learning to "copy and paste". Good job. Zebra   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.184.248.32 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 10:42 am:        Faith as I began this post I was laughing so hard. I will not be drawn into a battle of who is what. The day you become God and know what is in my heart then you can sit in judgement. If I wanted to stir up trouuble as you say I am doing there is so much I could say, however what ever issues I may or may not have with Carman or his ministry will not be discussed by me on a message board. I would and have gone directly to the source. I could sit here and defend myself and debate with you until I am blue in the face, you will beleive what you want and I do not play that game anymore. Faith a wolf does deceive but dear in my experience the one that is always crying wolf is usually the wolf. I beleive you are well meaning and not trying to be vindictive and judgemental on purpose. You are defending someone you beleive in, however there is more than one viewpoint and vaild facts on each side, and if you want your point respected than respect my right to disagree with you. The whole camp thing was a bad idea I admit that, the point was you may love him you may hate him or you don't care about him but everyone is entitled to make their own choice.   kookie77777 Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.0.74.139 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 7:19 pm:        U SHALL REAP WHAT U SOW ZEBRA... MY DEEPEST CONDOLENSE...I BET U CAN'T WAIT FOR THE JUDGMENT DAY.... WHAT A SUPRISE U SHALL HAVE.. NO FURTHER COMMENTS..   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 399 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 12:11 am:        friday, You misunderstood-- I am part of camp A. What I opposed was you deliberately misrepresenting those in this camp. There has only been one person who fit your description of those in camp A and that person was an imposter wanting to cause trouble. When she first posted here I wasn't at all sure her posts were a hoax, but it was someone who knew for certain she was doing it intentionally who confirmed my misgivings. The person who "debunked" what this person was really up to was someone who I was familiar with who supported Carman and who had several times before shed light on the darkness being sown by others. But, even after this person was exposed they still managed to deceive several people. But there was one who knew what she was doing and used her to discredit and further malign those who defend Carman which of course is zebra. Witnessing zebra has been like an introduction in "How Satan Works--101". I agree with you camp C is made up of people who pop in to stir up trouble-- as you said, they don't stick around long. They tend to be like you--- they claim they are defending Carman, but somehow manage to sow a seed against the ministry... I never felt bachman fit into this camp but I didn't really know how to help him to see this. Anything I said would be suspect. This is how Satan works... he sows false seeds and suspicion until it is hard for people to tell who is true. How does Satan do this? By sending forth imposters and pretenders. This is why the women of members only have learned to be cautious because they have been singled out by so many of these imposters and pretenders.   kookie77777 Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.0.74.139 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 9:49 am:        amen hfl   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 460 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 2:12 pm:        And I will double that amen hfl wingsy   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.192.72.71 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 3:37 pm:        Faith if I misunderstood your intent I am sorry, i feel you misunderstood my intent also. I too was a firm supporter of Carman, but unlike you I put him on a pedstal and could not see any human failings now that I can see I have more respect for him. I can still support his ministry and not be a member of site. The whole point I guess I was trying to make is that if a debate or fight is needed it should not be against each other but in bringing hurting souls into the light. See Faith I know what it is like to have been in the darest of despair and think there was no other choice but death, to reinvent myself to try and be someone lovable. I found through a lot of heatache and the love of some wonderful people that I can be loved for me. It was a long and painful road and it is a road I am still making peace with I only want others to not have to feel the same hurt I had to endure by my on choices. I only want people to know that no matter were you are in life there is forgiveness and places like this message board sholud be a place for others to reach out and find that forgivness. I may have gone about it wrong in some eyes but the intent was there not to hurt but to offer hope that even as Christains we may disagree with one another but we still love each person as Christ and will not condem them for their viewpoints . I beleive it is through accepatance that even the most harded heart can be healed.   fridayisontheway New member Username: fridayisontheway Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.192.72.71 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 4:14 pm:        Faith as I read my post I think I need to explain the pedestal comment. I needed 4 years ago to find something to beleive in to find some good in a time when all was bad. I found Carman's site but because of my twisted thinking I could not see any acceptance of me as I believed myself to be. If we sit someone on a pedestal and find they are human with human hurts and feelings what does that make us I told you who I was so you would have an understanding of who I was then and who I am now, through the power of love and forgivness. I feel the people in B are a lot like I was and are disaluisoned. They need to find a way back to truth but it is easier to blame someone else than to accept our own shortcomings. The way back to that place is by love and understanding. To have someone say yes I can see you've been hurt and i just want you to know that you are still loved even though we may disagree. I told you before there was no malice in my heart. Carman Ministries was there when it was so dark and for that I will always be grateful my only regret is that I could not show what I was going through and who I really was, but Faith at the time I was there I was so afraid of losing what little light I had that is not an excuse just a fact. I have moved on in my life but this is an area that I have my deepest regret. I do not want others to have to live in that darkness and feel the shame I feel daily. Faith there are some that have so much anger they may never change, but it is up to peolpe lke those in the A camp to show them that there is love and accepptance waiting for them if they can find the courage to step out nd admit where they have made mistakes to. Hurt and anger take a long time to heal but they can heal   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 400 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 12:31 am:        friday, I do understand what you are saying. Maybe what you are doing inadvertently has been to put those in Camp A on a pedestal-- transposing them in the position of God, expecting them to have "known" you were hurting and should have treated you as you believe you should be treated--- and were treated by the Holy Spirit. You see even though you experienced the love of the Holy Spirit in your darkest time, you now turn on these women for not making you feel this loved! Don't you see, that no one can do this, this would be robbing the Holy Spirit of His role as our comforter. It is Satan who wants to deceive us into believing and keep expecting that someone else can give us or make us feel this pure and perfect love! Satan also wants to deceive people into believing that the "pure and perfect love" they experinced came from another source other than God, such as a person who witnessed to them, or a pastor, an evangelist, or an angel, or a celebrity, or even their parents-- when this love can only be found in God. Jesus Christ told us not to hide our light but to put it on a table. This is why Satan puts it in men's spirits that a certain productive Christian for the kingdom of God is being idolized because he chose to put the Light of Christ in him on a table for the world to see. But Satan has deceived some who see this Light shining high above for people to see, as not sitting on a table doing good, but is the person God is using being idolized. And so those who were first deceived are then deceived into believing they are the ones who truly love the Lord and must knock down and destroy this "idolatry" to keep more people from being led astray. That is what has been happening to Carman in his ministry for the past twenty years. It is your testimony of needing to be able to see a light in your time of need that so many of us share this same testimony and the reason we fight in Camp A to protect the Light that was shining through to us through someone God chose to shine His Light through. We respect Carman for his faithfulness to God, but make no mistake we recognized who our Comforter was and Christ alone was there with us in our most desperate times. Carman said one time in one of his shows that used to air on TBN that we are imperfect, but even so, Jesus Christ called us to be His witnesses. Yes, by the Holy Spirit we are being perfected, but, only the Holy Spirit can never fail you! You can continue to see these women as failing you and keep them as an "idol", someone who was to give you what only God could! And if these women failed to be "loving" as Christ commanded understand that this is proof of God's word, that when those in camp b judged they created stumbling blocks and obstacles so these women could not be as warm and kind as they would be if they were not constantly under judgement.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 401 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Sunday, December 10, 2006 - 9:55 pm:        friday, I ask you to step back and take a look at the big picture. Forget about yourself, Carman and those in "member's only". Jesus told us the key to how heaven works is whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven. So when Christians "judge"/faultfind other Christians they are creating stumbling blocks and obstacles for that Christian and hindering the perfecting process of Jesus Christ in that Christians life. In the same way when Christians faultfind Christian leaders as we see here on factnet, they are putting up stumbling blocks and obstacles for the ministers and for anyone who they might minister to. So what is happening? Those Christians who are faultfinding are binding fellow Christians and especially Christian leaders. Focus on what happens when Christian leaders are bound--- we know that because of this God binds His power from heaven, because He works His power through these ministers. This is the key to how God moves. As Christians we have lost so much ground in just the last few years. Why? Look at the growing number of Christians who spend their time faultfinding and mocking these leaders instead of praying. From what I have seen, it is those who pray and encourages God's people to pray and put their faith in God to act that are the focus of faultfinders. Why? To hinder our prayers, to cause stumbling blocks and obstacles from keeping us from praying. We must pray! As Christians, if we want things to change then turn loose of God's servants because it is these that God's power is upon and God will loose His power and change everything! Judging/faultfinding keeps us as God's people from being perfected! Which keeps the faultfinders in business and God's people bound!   zebra Intermediate Member Username: zebra Post Number: 238 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.147.144.19 Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:00 am:        Kookie: First of all, CONDOLENSE should be CONDOLENCE. Secondly, one definition of condolence is as follows, "Sympathy with a person in grief." I do hope you realize that I am suffering no grief when I point others in the right direction. Finally, I do hope you realize that when you stated in your above post # 57, " NO FURTHER COMMENTS" what that truly means. Perhaps, you are not unlike the girls from the paid chat site, it only applies to others and not to themselves. By the Way, You got something right when you wrote the following, "U SHALL REAP WHAT YOU SOW" I couldn't agree more. Zebra   hooper4evr New member Username: hooper4evr Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 172.166.204.155 Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 8:04 pm:        Zebra Why are u picking on wings and HFL and some of the others on this site? Why don't u let them alone and go do something else to get your kicks. They are only trying to reach others with a message. Hooper4evr   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 461 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 3:35 pm:        Thank you hooper4evr, I really appreaciate your message here, and pray that Zebra can move on. I still don't understand it myself why she gets such a thrill trying to spread gossip. When everything that is said is lies. Even when I've put public post to uplift others on my site. She has taken what I've said and twisted it all around to try and make herself look bigger. Again thank you for putting a good message here that says to move on. As I've been trying to tell her the exact same thing, but it still hasn't clicked yet. Maybe now it will. God bless you wingsy   zebra Intermediate Member Username: zebra Post Number: 239 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.145.36.17 Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 8:26 pm:        Hooper4evr: I couldn't agree more. They are trying to reach others with (their) own message. Zebra   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:17 am:        You guys know what, I checked this old site for the first time here on Christmas break and it is just silly. That crazy mean religious woman hfl is still at it and doesn't get it. She is still throwing around the Word of God to get her way over people. I have never seen anything like her and she says that God is telling her to do all the weirdy things she does. NOT! So NOT! Wings is still at it too. Oh my gosh Zebra you are so hillariously funny and so right on dude. It is so so so so true, why did Vada take off her myspace after some people said truthful and godly critical comments. Woww what a bunch of pride for sure. There is the arrogance always denied and disputed proven by their actions. They changed Carman's front page too on myspace. The sleazier or racier kinds of people are still on there or there are new ones. Yes, but oh no, they are far from vain right? Wings is a stalker type in her own ways, even my parents noticed from her irrationality and her patterns over the years on the web where she goes after Carman and copies him and even followed him to his church in Nashville. There is not one thing, oh no,, not one thing that she would ever ever ever ever admit about herself. See..... now that is a person who has a spiritual life that does not reflect the God of the Bible that I know of. She never tells the truth about herself and where she falls short or is worldly. Oh my gosh, did you see what she wrote on the other thread???? That uberly super worldly crass joke and then "they" kept it going. Finally the baloney is out in the air. These bad tempered women who want to be in control over others and act so innocent. Now we see that she is worldly and compromised and that nutty person kookie, said oh my God in letters which is taking His Name in vain also. Hey Bachman or Friday whatever your real questions are, that is not clear to me either. One thing you could be very clear on is to not even read through hfl. My parents who are Bible College grads and in ministry have discerned her as a liar, a religious self appointed voice with a witchy spirit and is a very brutal person emotionally. Wisdom that comes from God, does not come in her kind of packages and hate messages. She is crazy to say the least even if she shouts the Bible verses at you until you can't think straight anymore. If you ask a more direct question you will probably get a specified response from someone. The Three Camps thing, that is pretty straight but there is more to it than that in my opinion. Plus most of these people are so into themselves and what they want to get out of Carman,, you can't rely on their words or ideas. One thing though is that the ones who like Carman the most, are the ones who also for sure hate the most. Go figure on that one. It is revealing to say the very very least. Yes and Wings who is always playing the great star girl and who is so new age with the angels thing seriously made her myspace private recently. Games "Christian" people play. Zebra you are very poignant and hit that ball way out in a good way. Do you care about conservation and the things that the world industries are doing to the oceans and sea life? I believe we have to be good stewards of God's creation and that He entrusted it to us to take careful care of it. No animal worship or any of that junk. Happy CHRISTmas!   wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 462 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:34 pm:        Oh uncharmed, you are the reason that I went private over on myspace, because you live for trashing Vada, Carman, to me, and anyone else who is so tired of you, and your cohorts. You use so many names that even your own must get confused. Man am I ever glad that you can't read my site anymore yee haw, and as for being in Nashville unlike you I was invited there by my friend who is still a doll, and my friend, and unlike you who lives to trash her every move. Why don't you tell us all here just why you and your parents really left the church yourselves HMMMM????? Do you all want to go there in the la la land???? Your Mom even told me that Carman asked you out and you turned him down. Go figure now I on the other hand believe that you were there chasing him until you realized that he isn't interested in you. As for me I am married to my best friend, and I don't stalk him I'll just leave that up to you. The reason that I am even still here is to put people like you, and your messed up family in your place from telling so many lies. By the way when you meet older people like me and others can you do us all a huge favor?? Don't call us sweety it isn't very becoming of a youngin. Ah and how do you know that zebra's a guy by calling him dude??? HMMMM things that make you wander eh? Also as for the star I'll still leave that up to you and all of those notes all put in one word until the ears needs plugs. Again as for Carman's site even to Vada's I believe that they too need to go private then they can delete all of the fake friends who are not real, but only there to dig in gossip. I also am not the only one who went private there, because of people like you who only go there to read our sites, and then trash us here under all of your names. Keep trying uncharmed, but to attack hfl, to anyone else that has stood up for the ministry shows your true colors too. And ah by the way why are you even going on myspace sites to read Carman's page to even mine if your intentions are right before God???? There's a real question isn't it??? Yup! Also we all miss Vada on there and if she does come back then I will show her how to go private so what she does is her business with her real friends, and not the fake ones like you who didn't get what you wanted. So you left with you family, and have been attacking this ministry ever since. Why don't you find a new hobby like winning lost souls, and as for my new age why thank you it is my Birthday coming up in January or have you already forgotten. It must be hard keeping all of my info in your head, but it does make me feel so popular with your family for showing me so much love with the words, and not the actions. As for shouting straight that too we'll all leave for you, because if anyone has ever heard you then they know that you really do shout it all out from one side of stage to the other. By the way it's called vocal control, and even my Mother and I came with plugs everytime that you graced us with your star appealing.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 402 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:23 pm:        uncharmed, You're back? How timely. You wrote, "Wings is a stalker type in her own ways, even my parents noticed from her irrationality and her patterns over the years on the web...." (Hint about "stalkers", uncharmed, they watch in secret, much as you and your family do until their "jealous lusts" and violence in their hearts can no longer be contained and then they burst onto the scene driven to destroy.) Originally I had written this in response to"Keep it true's" recent tangents that as usual turned to attacking Carman's mother. Since wingsy's post asking kit if she was the person who was privately emailing her that was a mother still angry over her daughter not getting to marry Carman kit hasn't reappeared and so to address this after she exited could only stir her up and possibly force her to take on a new "identity". No doubt that neither you nor kit would ever dare confess if you are the mother and daughter wingsy mentioned. There is even lesser doubt in my mind that you will be certain to deny it now. But your actions go further to prove that what is behind all of your anger is a psychological deficiency of mothers and daughters suffer from the "fairy tale complex". (NOTE to any therapists outside the Christian community, Carman is considered the idea catch for the snooty daughters of "parents who are Bible College grads and in ministry" who feel they belong in such a well-known ministry.) This explains these mothers' animosity toward Carman and his mother. We've all heard of the Peter Pan complex.... but these mothers and daughters suffer from what should be called the Evil mother who desperately seeks to wed homely daughter to Prince "Charming" complex. (NOTE to uncharmed--- as I wrote this I was reminded of you and "others" who were miffed toward what they all described as Carman's "charm". This could be the psychological reason for your odd hostility and belief Carman is being deliberatly "charming"! Uncharmed you are the one who is "soulish" and "witchy" in all your writing-- so apparently is your parents.) Prince Charming in fairy tales was the hero who fulfilled women's dreams of romantic love, as well as the glory-hungry wannabe mother-in-laws and their daughters. This explains why those like kit have projected their own character onto Carman's mother when they are the ambitious mothers who saw their dreams of being pulled out of obscurity of just "traveling in the same circles as famous ministries" and actually receiving recognition through their daughters advantageous marriage. Thus,the reason for the incessant carping that Carman's mother is living vicariously through her son to fulfill unattained dreams. The truth is they see Carman and his mother for being the two stumbling-blocks keeping them from obtaining their dreams. Carman's mother knew success early in life as a child. She met a very handsome man, married and they had three children together. Carman's parents shared a long marriage, that had ups and downs, but in the end they were both blessed to help their son serve God. "The end of a thing is better than the beginning," is so true about them and as true followers of Jesus Christ we should rejoice for them. But that is never the case with those like kit and uncharmed. Carman's dad on his death bed's one care was that his son never stop serving God! This was the heart of Carman's dad and Carman's mother continues to help her son. And this is what makes these women so furious. There fury with Vada could be that Vada knows too much about who they are....   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 6:03 pm:        Who do "you" know? God is not calling you to post here, you know that don't you? That is why you are so hard on everyone and so self righteous. I think Keep it True is right on HFL. You are so deluded and so mean that you are never going to gell with a person that honest and stable. Wasn't Carman's dad a butcher and very mean man and wasn't there household full of screaming and beatings and it was very worldy? His mom was in an all girls accordian band. Why did Carman go to a disciplinary military school and run away to Las Vegas quitting school if they were all so successful? Why did his dad cheat on his mom and have a love child then? What are you trying to spin around? Carman was miserable growing up. Therapists say that most performers have serious problems. Are you a relative or friend of the family and have carefully lied to everyone that has ever logged in saying you don't know Carman, and never met him but you only wrote to him? Do you think that Carman and his mom should be dreaming together and that instead of being the covering and God's resource for a wife's dreams that Carman has and is doing that for his mom and its not exactly healthy? I am not the only one "miffed" at his charm dufus. God says "charm is deceitful". Charm is a controlling and ungodly thing to do. There is a reason behind it too. I don't have any fury towards Vada. I can't admire her and I wouldn't be able to say she is good for Carman. Isn't it "their fury" that has been posted about? Do you believe Carman has a bad temper and that he is soft spoken as charm? You watch too much E HFL. Maybe you don't watch enough like the Michael Jackson exposure that someone told me about that reminds me of some of the things we hear about Carman. Why didn't wonderful and perfect mom Nancy mention her wonderful daughter who has a church ministry on myspace, but only two "powerful and important" sons duh? I don't think being a big phoney is godly. That is kind of sexual in the emphasis too. I do come from a godly home, where ministry is real and people are not abusive and we are all in the middle of or finished with excellent degrees. No one is a phoney or a charmer. We don't admire immoral people and put art or talents above the eternal Word of God. We are not stubborn hillybillies and crass and judgmental fundamentalists either. Vada does not know me and no one in our family is obese or bad tempered and self righteous either. What are you and the epitomy of honesty Wings saying now? I am not privately emailing anyone here. Sic. I am not even in my 30's and I told some things about my life a long time back so figure it out for yourselves. Yeah and at first I was some despondent girl from the chat who stole the name JO Jo too. Sorry all of you "discerning" and "accurate" accusers. I have not ever "paid" to hear Carman and his mom brag about him and dis others. Hate is so strong among the Carmanites. Accusers too duh. If the end of a thing is better than the beginning, how about if you end it now and never come here again? Some of the stumbling blocks in Carman's life are from God. And, yes his dad was encouraging his ministry at the end and that is wonderful and so so so so so so cool. He needed that after being successful and his dad abandoning him for his half sibling for years. But Carman was "mad at God" and did the ever famous "acted like a victim" once again to God not keeping his dad alive and his brother too. Carman is a man and he should be so close to God and so thankful that he can handle his life and go forward without acting like God is jerkish.   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 6:14 pm:        God is perfect and if you are angry with Him He would understand, but it's also very stupid because He doesn't do anything wrong duh. Carman refuses to leave and cleave in some deep way and it is a spiritual thing and not exactly normal. If you don't know them as "you said" then stop concluding about their lives because you are just "off" on a "tangent".Carman's mom really has lived through Carman and like you and the others she uses him and only a good minister or good therapist would understand that. You are always calling things holy that are not. Note to any therapists reading this, ignore HFL she has no life it would seem and she comes to these conclusions out of hate and judgment. This is her only access to an outside world and she lurks behind the secret IP and those condemnations that are so so so so so so charming. She seems to have no accountability and not a whole lot of reality. Her facts are partial at the best and her attitude is, duh you can see for yourselves. She never apologizes and she sizes up everyone and puts everyone in the place she thinks they should be lowered into. Nice woman and so so so so so much like Jesus. HFL go into obscurity and realize that Carman is 51 and is not married and has a very weird relationship with momma. Charm means he is hating someone or something too by the way Miss you know it all. Is it "okay" in your opinion for Carman to lie and charm? How about making fun of women or how about acting like a victim? Do you think his mom hurt his manhood and hurt his ability to have a normal relationship with women? Be the better ending and be absent. Get a life, ask the Holy Spirit to give you a fresh infilling of the Father's love for all Christians. HFL I don't like you. I don't like the way you try so hard to sound like you are the authority about Carman. I don't like the way you judge and hate. I don't like the way you are not in reality but you think you are the source of it. Is Carman the idea catch or the ideal catch? You speak from your heart's abundance. "The Idea" you have is duh, an idea. What would be ideal could be if you would "stop vicariously living through Carman" and his family. That is "odd" because according or accordian to you you don't even know them. Have you tried to use Google to find out what is underneath the charms of a man or how a mother can have a very ungodly molestive hold on her successeding son? So also because he is in a ministry nothing can be seriously unhealthy or wrong? Not with you anyways duh tah duh. Did anyone ask you if you show your pastor your posts? Do you actually attend a church and have a pastor? Get saved, sanctified, filled with the Spirit and show us His fruits HFL if that sounds like something that you might find to be valuable. If you do like or love Carman so much duh then do you care about him operating in his imagination and his flesh more than or even instead of the Holy Spirit and God's designs? No because that is your spirituality. One thing I do like about you, is that you are very uncharming. With the exception of when you think you have a following or are "over" someone. God would NEVER PLACE A PERSON WITH YOUR HATE AND TWISTED IDEA AND IDEALS, 'OVER' OTHERS. But that hasn't stopped you from trying. Remember the end [you know- you leaving and never coming back] will better for all! It would be entertaining to figure out how many people you have hated by name over the beginning of all posts to the end of 2006. Too bad, duh that you took some of the most crazy and hating posts off while you still could on FN. God loves the way you hate. NOT!   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 149 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 6:51 pm:        Wings, You have never spoken to my mother. I don't really believe that Vada invited you specifically to come to Nashville and just because you taped one dumb cable TV program that aired once so?! You are trying to be famous and of course lying about that and are saying you are innocent. Carman never asked me out and he is old. I think he would hurt his wife and probably cheat on her with his character. God can change my mind and heart about that, but he has all the signals. He is divorced and manipulative too. The way he got married and divorced is sic. You might have married your best friend but you went after Carman years ago and you still go after him to use him for your own designs. You try to make believe you are like Carman and I have read you saying those kinds of things. You are a spiritual risk to him is what my Dad thinks. You have complicated darknesses around you and you hide who you are from a lot of people. Then again that is "something like Carman" and neither one of you admit to that. Carman has the anointing of God and he has spiritual darkness around him and coming out of him. When did Carman ever go on something like a retreat and spend three weeks completely cut off except for like an emergency or a check in. Something where he avoided TV and activities and fasted up in the mountains until he heard God for sure? Does he repent for the victim crud that he flows in? Does he "see" the darkness around him or in him? We all have to search out and find out if there is any wicked way or darkness in us. That is basic Bible 201. Would he give up charm and self centerdness? Duh, nope. So Sweetie, when you try to boss me or others around, duh do you think it really works? It's so sad for you that you have to try to feel important and powerful and famous and that you are using webpages that aren't even about you. Private myspace, woww what a laugh. It's all an ego trip and if they aren't on there to minister to the many lost and perverted people hanging out there then what's the point? God does not like egoness deary. You are not like Him in that way, and it's sad really. You can't live your life without the imaginations and exaggerations you have about angels? They are not cute, cuddly glowing cupids. They are more important and purposeful than that silliness and falsehood. I would write longer but unlike you I am too busy to spend days and days on the web trying to get people to make me feel good and important. If you really are so successful in TV and everything why not post it? Carman does. Do you think it is respectable that they high tailed it and closed down their myspaces just because they were caught for the compromised and manipulative people they are? Is Carman compromised and manipulative? Are you? No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No. I don't think it is right spiritually or in ministry for instance to talk about you as in the same group with them. You are a small potato trying to be the world's most recognized order of fries. Looking so so so forward to your defenses some plagerism and many levels o control techniques sweetums. NOT. Duh Tah Duh! Can you answer a spiritual question? Do you think that it is okay for the people who read this stuff or the people who are around Carman to have ill will and to pray the kind of prayers that the devil uses to send out attacks? Do you think it is okay to lie to oneself about their own motives and to justify all wrongs? You probably are not spiritually mature enough to answer that. Duh what am I thinking, you will avoid it because you are so controlling and you know that those things are very wrong. WWJD WWcD WWselfD Merry CHRISTmas Sweetie   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 403 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 6:30 am:        uncharmed, I have "negative discernment" about you and your "parents". I discern["to perceive by the sight or some other sense or by the intellect]they practice and work in the spirit of deception. I discern that you and "your parents" would never want anyone they go to church with to know it is them who behave as they do here. They know that most Christians would never condone their clandestine works. I discern that you and they come here to deliberately deceive people! They like to boast about themselves to deceive people that they do have some "authority" in what they do. But they are frauds! I discern that they want people to connect them with each other, so they can say "oh you are wrong!" This is their trap, they say "oh, look they falsely accused us!" You do this to put up stumbling blocks! You say you can't possibly be interested in Carman because you're not even 30.... But I have discerned that no matter what your defense, if you and your family spend this much time and effort on Carman seeking revenge, you are interested and are behaving like a family of scorned women! You keep talking about the "ocean". I discern you are purposely dropping hints like breadcrumbs. I discern you are trying to stir up speculation that you are from Hawaii? I discerned minky hinkle doing this. But watch how you will deny this! You want certain people to think you live in Hawaii-- but why? Watch you deny this. Or will you think telling the "truth" in this instance will work to ensnare. Satan tells the "truth" when he can use it to trap someone. I never thought minky was the mom, because I discerned minky sounding too much like mnp. But, the information wings shared did reveal "motive" for why a "family of women" would be so interested in "inflicting punishment" on Carman. You may not be the biological daughter of kit, but you are the spiritual! This is what I meant by your "parents" and "mother". These who post here may not be your parents, or your aunt or uncle, nor any biological relationship to you, but "spiritually" you all are kin! Just as I am family with Carman through the Spirit of Jesus Christ. I discern the familial traits of Jesus Christ in him and those you accuse and set traps for, but I do not discern any coming from you or kit. It is for God to judge your eternity and theirs, but for now I am commanded to discern righteousness and you do not possess any except pharisaical. I do not ever expect you to tell the truth. You are a liar["falsifier, a perjurer, a prevaricator"]. I have discerned that everything that comes from you and your family is meant to deceive. This is the spirit of confusion that flows from your posts to attack others. I discerned this same spirit operating in all those in your family. I discerned these people want to emotionally wound and spiritually dominate Carman. And they hate anyone they see as keeping him encouraged against their evil-craft[skill used for bad purposes through cunning and deceit]. Read your families posts and see the curses(a source of evil) that weaves through them aimed at Carman. Your family works in the craft of deception, targeting vital parts of Carman-- like his heart by attacking his mom. I discerned kit and others going after his childhood to try and destroy him there. I know that God is able to go back into our childhood to heal us, and so Satan knows he can go there to destroy as well. You are the crafty [craftiness, shrewdness, deceitfulness, deception} woman with false authority!   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 4:39 pm:        Then you are my family too. [My sic family member who needs to go away to a treatment center for a couple of months or so.] What do you think HFL? Do you think that Carman's mother wounds and dominates people or that Mario was like that? God does not like the way you lie and twist THE TRUTH. If Carman or his mom would have said, "in spite of us" we have been thankfully ministering and God has used foolish dysfunctional people like us" then the myspace would have been at the very very least somewhat honest. Duh Tah Duh do you think you silly definitions make your posts more POWERFUL? You just look like you are so so so so struggling to control anyone and not lose your own face. That is the hard part of giving yourself false status sometime you have get knocked down dear. You are so so so so so so so so so so so so so so discerning. Dufus Dear the first time I wrote here, I was in Hawaii that is where I go to school. Its Christmas break and if you actually read the post this time that I started with, I told you it was the first time in a long time that I have posted but you, yep, you are still doing the same silly abusive stuff. You don't use the dictionary to heal or to minister but woww you use it the same way you "use" the Bible [witch] to hurt and to control. UH HUH Duh, what about my family? You don't even know anyone who is a godly, healthy and caring as my family and they know many famous ministers who wouldn't ever read your posts or have a discussion with you. My Dad has very accurate discernment and his motives are 1000 times more pure than yours will ever be. He does know Carman and you don't so be quiet. Carman has more people encouraging him than almost anyone. Duh one thing that is for sure, he doesn't NEED you to. Like the person you are hating as usual said in one their posts, Carman is the farthest thing from a victim. You ARE THE MOST "DESTRUCTIVE" PERSON HERE. That is why you are ALWAYS ACCUSING OTHERS OF DOING IT. You are also crafty and trick people who have some genuine respect for God by puffing up your words and putting in verses so they think you are really a godly person and then they try to have fellowship with you. All you really want is to control and you have no no no no problem wounding anyone. You are a very unhealthy and sneaky person. You wish you had the women in your life that I do who are mentors or leaders ranging from Lyndsay Roberts to Susan Hinn. Just get off it HFL you lonely old spinster with no friends. You have a sic relationship spiritually and duh emotionally to Carman. Its not with it is 'to'. You obviously have no spirtual mothers or fathers as you said, because you are so unhappy and so weird spiritually. You hide how weird you are by using verses that are not weird. You seem like a molestor type and you are definitely predatory like my parents observe and I think other people might have said that to you. You are in complete denial yourself. Maybe duh tah duh 'these people' you love to put down and call evil, are reacting to Carman's domination or his ability and history with wounding. You are a twister. Do you think that God anoints that? You think anyone who has any reality about Carman all sound the same. You sound the meanest and the sickest of anyone who has ever posted here. Congratulations. I haven't hid anything about my love for ocean systems health and science. You are in so much denial that you think everyone is lying the way you do. Why don't tell the listening audience anything real 'about you' right now oh honored and 'god sent' HFL? You won't because you are crafty. You ARE DEFINITELY A FALSE AUTHORITY. Duh! A NON AUTHORITY. (Message edited by uncharmed on December 19, 2006)   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 185 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 4:42 pm:        You block or try to hose away "salt and light" and those are the things that Carman would need for mental health. You say you are defending him but you are one of the people who are making him sic. Sugar gives you cancer and feeds the parasites in your organs. "Salt and Light" preserves and heal and reveal and a lot more. WE and Carman need the sting of salt and the intrusions of light into darkness for a lot of things. You put darkness like a big blanket or something over the light and you try to get the salt out of there as soon as possible. You are doing something evil but you call everyone else evil. You need the book Caring Enough to Confront for your Christmas gift this year. Everyone I know other than one person in my immediate circle has read at the very least parts of that book. You are so controlling that you used some of the strongest Bible language to make a web name for yourself. That is crafty. You also say that God is speaking when it is duh, just your own soul. But you so so so so so don't manifest those things. You say you are godly but you are not actually "godly". You are the one who is so so so crafty. Stop using scripture to abuse. I really really don't like you and my parents have warnings about you. "You" want to emotionally dominate and wound anyone who won't come underneath your controls and false positions. Yes, plural- MS. Witchy Dominator Hater Queen of Rudeness and Spiritual False Hood. Stop worshipping Carman and worship God. When you are doing "that" it will be at the very very least obvious and no one will need discernment. Your dictionary words and scriptures are just mean and dominating and show your desperation. Duh you are also just copying people who are obviously more intelligent and loving than you. God could be targeting vital areas of the heart where He wants Carman to get real and become better. You think Carman is Jesus come again in the flesh and we should treat him JUST LIKE THAT, so you don't think that he [or the 'holy mother'] have any repenting or changing to do to be right with God. Duh Tah Duh. (Message edited by uncharmed on December 19, 2006)   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 5:15 pm:        How could you possibly have negative discernment about my parents? If you knew what they have been involved with and who they are friends with you would be so so so so ashamed. Not only are you wrong you are sic. I am not just defending them and its not because I know them very well. Its what they do not just in the public's eyes and what they have had discerned and prophesied over them. You are just saying that to control again. Do you have anything new to do with you anger and your very boring and empty life HFL? You are a witch spiritually and we have noticed that some people who are unyielding and blind in their wierd loyalty to Carman, have a spirit of witchcraft. You don't even understand witchcraft in Christians or yourself. Was it witchcraft, mind control or false hood and deceit that the minister from Colorado was involved in all of that affair sex and deceiving and at that same time he used so so so so so many more scriptures than you could possibly dream of? You are someone who should be laughed off. Do you burp really loudly when you need to burp? Duh Tah Duh   uncharmed Intermediate Member Username: uncharmed Post Number: 187 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 206.132.122.10 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 5:19 pm:        Oh duh, great, I just noticed on more thing when I drug myself through your nasty post. You "discerned" breadcrumbs????? What a joke HFL. I was just talking about my life and there was no game or motive in it, and since I am not hiding anything that you are describing how was that actually "discernment" on your part? You might want to think about repenting for blasphemy and false prophecy and accusations. Just those little things. So so so so so so so glad that you can't take that post off because it is proof of how off you really are. Which most of us knew anyways. Get well.   newlife Intermediate Member Username: newlife Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.72.98.86 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 12:43 am:        Wingsaglow, Is this person's name Mary? And oh yeah! Merry Christmas!   wingsaglow Advanced Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 527 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 2:09 am:        Thank you New Life, and I will not be like them even though I could indeed answer it, but then I'd be just like them when they use my real name to even my friends. All that I will say is I pray that God blesses Carman with his very dreams, and the true beauty the is with him. Then all of the wanna bumble bees can go and find another flower. I will also say Merry Christmas to you too Newlife, and to hfl, and my friends. As for me this public forum isn't a good place to feed the other fish who have sharp teeth, and can't wait to get any bites on any info. So for them I say go fish, and as for Mr. C. I will continue to pray God's very best for him, and I just know that He already has. Blessings Wingsy   newlife Intermediate Member Username: newlife Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.72.98.87 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 2:40 pm:        Wingsaglow, Thank you and i understand where you are coming from. But i agree with HFL that the duplicity of these posters should be made known. And also a Merry Christmas to you too Hope_Faith_Love. If you will recall the poster Notafan_Notaenemy. She was the person posting from the University of Notre Dame early on in Janurary of 2005. As they say...all roads lead to Rome, and several of the Hawaii posters have referred to her posts and even suggested we go back and read them. Notafan_Notaenemy, "New Day...New Life...shorter thread to speak heart and mind", February 10, 2005 @ 5:52 p.m. Quote: My name is Mary. What is yours? Now Mary said she had a sister in the South Pacific. Then in another post she said she had a friend in Hawaii. Shortly after that the poster Bobolink appears, and he was the beginning of the Hawaii posters. Mary and Bobolink knew each other or they were the same person. Here's why i think so. Bobolink, post #31, "Witchcraft and the like in so-called ministries" Quote: Laws if differnet from state to state an I ain't in Tenn. I had a friend who lived there for awhile, she knew the "Newsboys", and she was told by a security guard that Mr. C was "investigated" and a prophet had a word he was a reapin' something he sowed by having an innocent party investigated. Notafan_Notaenemy, post #44, "New Day...New life..shorter thread to speak heart and mind" Quote: I was invited to a bible study by an uncle of the "Newsboys", they invited me to go on their bus when they were traveling between Nashville and Colorado Springs.   newlife Intermediate Member Username: newlife Post Number: 150 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.72.98.87 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 2:41 pm:        Now Mary may really have a sister or friend in Hawaii. But was this poster Bobolink there in Hawaii? He had a Hawaii i.p., but he talked alot about being in the snow. And walking out to the barn on the crunchy ice to feed the horses and seeing the breath from the horses nostrils in the cold air. He even once made a post at 5' something in the morning. He announced that God sings over us whilst' we sleep, and that he had jest' woke up and the horses were impatient to git' their breakfast. I guess that sounds real cute and all except Hawaii is in a different time zone so it would have been 1' something in the morning there and plus it does'nt snow in Hawaii. Blurb. Anyways. If you go look on the thread "Carman's chatroom and the dynamics per members. Scroll down to March 2, 2005 and find (Mary)Bobolink's post #158. Then scroll down some more to March 4, 2005 and find (Mary)Peace_that_passes, post #42. There you see they share the same i.p.   newlife Intermediate Member Username: newlife Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.72.98.87 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 2:44 pm:        Now look at this. Go to search and type in "Church of God of Prohecy" and there you will see Mary(peace_that_passes)post #15. Here she is saying that she came out of the secular music scene and was involved with some of the most famous musicians in the world. Scroll on down a bit then you will see Mary as(Bobolink) inquiring about a minister in Ohio? Which is where Mary(Notafan_Notaenemy)said she was from. Then Bobolink continues on to say that this minister from Ohio went to Arizona. Scroll down a little more then you will see the poster Trustnobey who was another Hawaii poster. The Fab3. Peace_that_passes, Bobolink, and Trustnobey. Here's the Fab3 on another thread talking about a minister in Arizona. See Newlife's post, "My angel will lead the way before you", November 12, 2005 @ 9:16 p.m. Read the first 5 paragraphs and perform the search i have referenced there. So there again you have the Fab3 now trashing a minister in Arizona. And now you can add Uncharmed to that list also. Uncharmed, post #4, "Let's all learn something from this experience, K?"   wingsaglow Advanced Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 528 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 7:13 pm:        You are very smart newlife, and yes I agree you have a correct name for a poster who is here. She lives off of other's lives, because she doesn't have one. Her youngest daughter is a wanna be wife, and is married might I add to a whipped pup, and it is her daughter who seeks the fame and fortune. Her older daughter plays an instrument, but is too shy to be on a stage, and is also married. The family is messed up in trying to spread false lies and nasty gossip, and so without further info that I will not sink myself to their level by including all of their names here like they have with my family. I will just leave it at that and say. Pray that God can heal their bitterness so that they all can then move on. God is already moving in a whole new way with a new breeze of blessings for this ministry, and those that trashed it will soon see a wonderful new stronger man for it. I for one can't wait to see it happen when all of the doors to higher blessings opens up. Then those who have trashed it can then ask this ministry to please forgive them, and you know what. The ministry I believe will forgive, but they also will not ever forget, and they will safe guard themselves even more. So that those who have stood beside this ministry will be the ones who will make sure that it stays that way. (Safe from fake friends) Blessings to all and Mery Christmas Wingsy   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 411 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 12:50 pm:        uncharmed you wrote to me,"You block or try to hose away "salt and light" and those are the things that Carman would need for mental health. You say you are defending him but you are one of the people who are making him sic. Sugar gives you cancer and feeds the parasites in your organs. "Salt and Light" preserves and heal and reveal and a lot more. " "No no" wrote, "Is it humble and is it compassionate to use HOLY SCRIPTURES AND USE THE PERSON the NAME and MISSION OF OUR HOLY GOD, to dominate others? Beloved, let us love one another. "They" will know us by our love one towards another. Do unto others what you would you would have done unto to you. It matters how we behave speak and relate, if we claim to know Christ, and are truly born of His Spirit with the gift and miracle of New Birth that comes only by faith in Him and the shedding of His Blood and His death and Resurrection!!" Luke wrote in chapter 10:25-37~~ On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' and, 'Love your neighbor as yoursel.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine.Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. Then next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him.' he said, 'and when I retnr, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."} (Message edited by hope_faith_and_love on December 26, 2006)   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 412 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Tuesday, December 26, 2006 - 1:00 pm:        No no wrote that "they would know us by our love toward one another" and so will Jesus. We were told that Satan comes to rob all of us. We use salt to preach against sin in the world. Notice how Jesus dealt with individuals. He showed mercy. It was with those who tested Him that He revealed His sword. He used salt to teach what is right and those with ears would listen! But those here have not shown any mercy. Uncharmed's salt has no flavor.... it does not possess any of Christ's characteristics. no no you are "known" by your posts. You did not come to bring peace but to destroy. And God is teach us how to recognize those like you! Matthew 7:15,21-23, Jesus told us~~"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is heaven. many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"} It is for this reason God is raising up His prophet to testify (afford evidence) against what they do, so that His people will no longer be taken captive by them.   no_no New member Username: no_no Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.130.100.144 Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 12:14 am:        HopeFaithLove, If you are truly Born Again how can you say things this way? How dare you accuse me of what I believe is evidently your own spirituality! Now after being corrected so accurately by many other, you are trying to be deeply hateful and to try to subordinate me as you try posting in "red letters" like the KJV and using abusingly the words of our Lord Jesus. That is unconscienable behavior and a true manipulation of the word of God. You cannot say that I am known by my posts because I have not posted and have come on board here for the first time this December. You are a false prophet just in the case of what you are coming to a conclusion of and accusing me of. You say that about many people and usually the very ones who hold you to accountability for something. You need to stop this. I choose to forgive you and pray that God will enlighten the eyes of your understanding and that he will show you just wrong your heart is and your overall spirituality. When do you strive to be at peace with all men? When do those of you who are so stuck on the identity of others provide your true identities or real names? You most assuredly show the other Christians at hand here what a ferocious wolf sounds and speaks like. Ferocious is a very good word for some of your attacks and posts. Jesus knows me, I am his and you are misapplying the holy word of God and bending the meaning of sacred scriptures. I am not an evil doer and my name has been written in the Lamb's Book of Life. I whole heartedly disagree with you about most of uncharmed's words and her spirit which shows through in her posts. She seems young and determined in the Lord and her family sounds like they love her with strong faith and godly experience. You sound distinctively emotionally and spiritually distorting. Why would you try to over-rule others and pin them down, by posting with "red letter" writing and the words of Jesus in such a blaspheming and self-serving mannerism? We don't have the right to call others evil and to condem them that way. Can't you apply to yourself scriptures on thatand other principles of love from the Lord? You are sinning, very much so.   hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 414 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 72.129.39.65 Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 12:24 pm:        In regard to the scripture used above in post 411, God reminded me of what wings told a few months back about her mother falling outside of her church and that no one would stop to help her. Wings wrote that one couple did stop, but when they saw that her mother was bleeding they left. Even though her young daughter was crying begging for someone to help, no one would. These were Christians leaving church who did not stop. During this Christmas I read many Christians reminding the world to remember "the reason for the season". Poster no no wrote that "they will know us by our love for one another," because she did not like what God had been having me to write. But God taught me that during this Season to warn His people that Christ didn't come to bring peace but a sword. Few understood what this meant, but it was the reassurance I needed to continue doing what He wanted when I longed to leave this "battle" front and go where I thought Jesus' Spirit was during this "season"... but Jesus was here fighting and that is where I was to remain. This is where He has come to fight against those who claim they are His but their righteousness does not even measure up to those who crucified Him! And it is here that He has chosen to free those who belong to Him. After wings told about what happened to her mother and daughter, God had me to write to her a few words of comfort, and also, to write something to protect what little unity we have as Christians against the accusations that have been coming by those on factnet against the large church attendances which they call "mega" churches. But, now God wants it said that believers of our generation are being tested and what He is seeing that this generation of Christians' righteousness is not even measuring up to the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law. Repeatedly we have seen Christians drawing members of the Body of Christ out publicly to use their sins in order to trap those sent by God. If we show compassion it angers them more! Even when we remind them what Jesus taught, "He who is without sin let him cast the first stone," and that those men dropped their stones and left in shame. But what these Christians do not turn away but continue day after day dragging the same person out to be publicly humiliated and to trap others into sinning. Thus revealing they have no conscience or sense of mercy and are even more evil than the religious in Jesus day. What God has also revealed is that it isn't strangers who are knocking us down and robbing us, but it is Christians. Is this not what these people have been doing to Carman and to his family? God said, "They they will deny this!" So He demands, what is their excuse if this is not true then for not helping a woman and a child, outside of His church! Christians are offended by what God has me to say. They say "peace and good will toward men!" but they do not show it to each other, these are words to stop what He is speaking to them. God says just as their predecessors did not want to hear Him is true of this generation!   no_no New member Username: no_no Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.130.100.144 Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 4:01 pm:        You are offensive period and do not demonstrate the peace that Jesus provides to all of us who believe on him and are saved. The way you use God's words is horrificly offensive. You speak as though you are a liscensed, ordained minister and as though you have a right to "control" others also, neither of which is accurate. You are a dangerous person who uses the scripture to commit personal acts of violence on the souls and freedoms of others. God does not "give you" you anything to say HopeFaithLove, because the Spirit of God isn't moving through you to bring love and unity. Carman being a mature Christian with a very successful ministry would be offended by you I believe. It does not compute based on your spiritual attitudes, that God gave you something to say. It is more accurate to believe that you took and take on a regular basis, what God has said in the sacred scriptures to say something and give a determined try to make yourself appear as though you have some type of clout using his words blasphemously. You are determined to make your own person recognized and submitted to. I feel you are living in a world of your own making and that it is normal and assuredly safe spiritually for christians to feel offended by your attempted domination and rude blasphemous abuses of others. Why are you manipulating and using Wingsaglow's tragedy and hurt to give your self the appearance of being a "do gooder". She should not be comfortable with you using her private information in such a selfish mannerism. You do not speak for the Jesus that came from Nazareth and who died on the cross for our sins. You do not madame and you are a witch like some others are discerning. This is proven by your unabashed attempts to control and the way you use the scripture. You are a person who is in a mentally and spiritually ill state. You attempt to publically humiliate and you preach manipulations of the scripture and attempt to exalt yourself into a power posture. It is not healthy or of the Lord to have a online relationship with you or to dialogue with someone as off as you are both in mind and spirit. Your attempts to rule over others and your rude and abusive using of God as your "power tool" is very dark spiritually. Is their anyone who knows your real name and your denomination or who you are submitted to in the church? Does Jesus command us to be humble and to search for love and peace? You seem to demonstrate that if someone is of Jesus they will be harsh and controlling and that is it noble to condemn those who we don't agree with. My Jesus is different than yours and you only claim to know mine. However, if you did know Jesus your fruit and your heart would be shockingly different. He would not send you here to attempt to rule others and to manipulate his words or to bully those who follow him.   wingsaglow Advanced Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 540 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.38.210.78 Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 2:58 pm:        Here you are again you wimp, and now telling hfl: God does not "give you" you anything to say HopeFaithLove, because the Spirit of God isn't moving through you to bring love and unity. Well who made you the judge now over hfl you fruitcake? See I'm not judging you, but I am calling you on each one of your sick off your rocker post you nut. You're a real piece of work cracked upstairs I might add, but a real piece of messed up work. Get a life no_no go back to your play pen

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