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Author Message   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 3:45 pm:        I thought I would be bold and take on the forbidden subject. How has growing up in the CoJ affected your relationships outside the CoJ? Do you find it hard to get past the drummed in mind set of sexuality is wrong and dirty? Is is hard to "cut loose" with out accidentally going overboard because you don't know what the "outside world's" boundaries are? I remember making many mistakes when I first left, because I was always told that everyone out there had no morals and no boundaries. Oops!   beyondfear Junior Member Username: beyondfear Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 71.233.118.53 Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 5:31 pm:        Hi alivefighting, Thanks for taking the plunge and bringing the topic of sex up. I'm very hesitant to discuss this issue because I know that some people reading this forum know who I am. The only thing I feel comfortable saying is that I'm furious with the community and what it did to me around the issue of my sexuality. It's an area that has caused, and continues to cause, extraordinary pain in my life. It's hardly surprising, though, given the fact that the community was founded on such deceit around the issue of sex. The people in power had huge problems with their sexuality and projected these problems on to us. I will never forgive the people who did this to me and so many others. It's an abomination.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 8:52 pm:        Hi beyondfear, I am very sorry for your pain. It sounds like you had a very rough time with this issue. I actually don't know who you are, and that is OK if you would like to keep it that way. I know many people who have left the CoJ have gotten married fairly soon after leaving. At least within a year or two. I wonder how they have recovered so quickly, to be able to have a healthy relationship? Does anyone have any insight?   spain New member Username: spain Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.94.51.133 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 12:01 am:        All of us - both at GCC and CoJ were severely injured in the area of sex -and, as said, it's because the leaders were so •••••• up. (excuse my language). I was a normal, healthy 26 year old woman when I got to GCC, via CofJ. I left at 45 and got married at 46 and the first couple years were very hard, because I felt so guilty having sex (with my husband), or enjoying it. Everyone I know closely from either community has had serious problems in this area. Of course, to be expected, since the leaders were so obsessed, wrongly, with sex.   questiongrrl New member Username: questiongrrl Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 65.94.115.234 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 10:58 am:        alivefighting, i do not feel comfortable just yet posting too much on this subject, although i think it is an important topic for discussion. just wanted to note that i wouldn't necessarily assume that when people leave coj/gcc and get married soon after that they have 'recovered'. i would imagine that many of them bring all the hang-ups and abuse related to sex into those relationships along with everything else.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 1:11 pm:        Here is a visual to make you all laugh on the 4th of July. Remember the bathing suits!   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 1:22 pm:        Just a thought. Maybe for this topic, people can get a new user name so that everyone can feel free to discuss without feeling exposed. I think that there are many of us who want to talk about this. What do you think?   arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2488 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 4:07 pm:        sex in its self is not dirty. exposing ones body in a provaoative way is. it can cause someone else to sin. when a man or woman wears clothing for instance that is too tight or too revealing they are causeing lust.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 5:18 pm:        I think that owning, acknowledging, and appreciating your sexuality is different from being slutty (this is for both men and women, as unfortunately there isn't a word for a male version of being slutty...why not?) As with all generations, there is a difference how clothing and style is viewed. It is also the attitude. There are men and women who wear very little, but are very relaxed and unself-concious. There is nothing sleezey about it. If you are not used to seeing a body, it tends to be a big deal. Not to most people out here. Remember that ankles used to be shocking just a few generations ago.   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 5:26 pm:        Sorry arron, have to disagree with you on that one! If someone feels comfortable wearing a nice blouse that is tight or reveals, what I might add, that GOD gave them, then that is just fine. See we have been programmed all our lives that our bodies should be covered at all times and not exposed in anyway. Come on, it's not the friggin 1800's!! Use your own thoughts and ideas of what you think is right arron, NOT what you have been told! Wait, I apologize maybe these are your own opinions, but some might disagree.   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 81.179.237.126 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 7:02 pm:        Not convinced alivefighting that our 4th of July - lets laugh and partie - is best way to profer this sex and COJ/GCC issue. Surely you were having fun, thats cool, but you iniated this sex thread its entering a sensitive and serious area that should be addressed maturely. Surely guys theres lots to discuss on this one so lets not be diverted by voyueurism and the ankles.   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 7:42 pm:        HEY, I don't think "alivefighting" was trying to trivialize the issue. He/she did bring out a good point in the above entry about it all being in the attitude. We were raised to be self conscious and have a negative body image(which is ridiculous!). I wish I had a more positive body image and could relax more. We could take a good lesson from so many of the European countries(case in point-----all those wonderful nude beaches). People are there in all ages, shapes and sizes and it is the norm for them. Yes, this is a sensitive topic but lets let people express themselves how they feel comfortable!   onshore Member Username: onshore Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.61.74.139 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 8:58 pm:        Did anyone ever go to C and J and confess that they were struggling with homosexual thoughts? What happened? Did they get up and preach about how sinful the very thought was, but had their own homosexual relationship behind closed doors? I think there is a huge Pandora's box that is about to be exposed. I think if people feel safer changing their user names, then so be it. The truth needs to come out into the light and it WILL be healing and validating. There is a lot that has gone on behind closed doors that has been very damaging to people, including young children. God brings hidden things of darkness into the light of exposure to heal and release prisoners from bondage. Let the process begin (Message edited by onshore on July 04, 2006)   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 81.179.237.126 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 9:07 pm:        Go for it onshore.   onshore Member Username: onshore Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.61.74.139 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 9:35 pm:        Just to let you know, if you do change your user names to feel safer when posting about sexuality issues or sexual abuse, unless you go to another computer, your IPC Number will remain the same. I am posting from a different computer tonight in Boston, so my number is differnet than what it is when I post from my home. Check it out. Another thought is to write out your story and have someone else that you trust, post it for you. However, part of the cult mentality is fear, and your own experiences are valid. To verbalize supressed thoughts and feelings about what happened to you personally, are necessary steps to getting healthy. THEY are the ones who should be "shaking in their boots" !!! (More than likely, they are.) (Message edited by onshore on July 04, 2006)   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 9:58 pm:        TO FELLOW FRIENDS HERE.-----Yes, "onshore", if the powers that be, namely MB and CF, could except that they are at fault and have sooo much to (shall we use their words)repent for, then they should be "shaking in their boots". Because so many still have family at both places then I understand how fear plays a larger role in what is posted. But it is sad that this cult mentality of fear(as you said)exists. Hard to be free of it though when we have loved ones still there. Ideas anyone??   b1acksheep New member Username: b1acksheep Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 65.182.15.106 Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 10:25 pm:        My new girlfriend rocks! Down with pompous celibates.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:00 am:        Hello everyone, I am glad to come back to my computer tonight to see how much input has been given. To address banjax, I am confused how you got "partying and voyeurism" from my comments. I referred to the bathing suits we were forced to wear (and make ourselves) partly to lighten the mood and get people talking, and partly as a sad memory. I don't know your age, or if you were in the meeting that took place when the "extreme modest" bathing suits were created. I remember it as a degrading and humiliating experience. Several of us young girls were stood up in our skirted bathing suits in front of all the other young girls and women of the CoJ and critiqued on what needed to be covered up more. We were made to turn around, bend over, etc. The end result was the bathing dress. I am surprised we didn't all drown trying to swim in them. Sometimes it is good to laugh at a ridiculous situation. It can open you up to remembering and facing the painful things in it. In response to onshore and the idea of changing usernames for this topic. If you are comfortable keeping your username, I applaud your bravery. My thought was for the people who are in a relationship now (or have been in) that would like to discuss the problems they are experiencing within that relationship (gay or straight). How they have overcome or can't overcome the puritanical thinking of the CoJ/GCC. For a small example, I am very frustrated that I can't dance. I have natural rhythm, and know that I could be good at it and would LOVE it...but I am too self-conscious. I can't get that tape out of my head that moving my hips, shoulders, etc... is BAD. I want to feel free to enjoy dancing. I have may friends who can dance incredibly well. I see the joy and goofiness in letting loose in the music. I want that too!!!! That is one of the inhibiting factors I was hoping to discuss, although it is just a toe in the water of the subject.   bettyboop New member Username: bettyboop Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 74.67.118.249 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 1:35 am:        I have a hell of alot to say about all of this. Don't think I've revealed my identity on this board yet, so I guess I'm safe. In spite of an incredibly damaging and abusive childhood at both of the cults and NO sexual education I'm gay and in a committed relationship and have a very healthy sex life. Maybe this is just because I have a high sex drive, I don't know. I went through a hugely suicidal period in discovering my sexuality, and the hints of homosexual traits I exuded growing up were squelched in the most severe ways possible. When I confided in a minister when I was in my teens that I thought I may be gay I was told that not only was I not gay but that homosexuality did not exist. I was also given the name of a committed community remember who had revealed to the same minister in confession their struggle with homosexual thoughts. The sad thing is, I took this minister's words as those of God and truly believed I wasn't gay. This only made it worse. When five or six years later I finally realized the thoughts and urges I was having were homosexual, I would go to the Church each night and cry to God and try to beat the homosexuality out of myself. I saw another minister who put me through a program of "stomping out the darkness" which explained homosexuality as "satan inside me." In the beginning, this helped cause I stopped blaming myself, but that quickly changed into me thinking I was possessed. A long, messy (but interesting) story short, I got out of the cults and within a couple of years began to come to terms with the fact that I'm gay. It has only been in recent months, however, that I stopped believing that I was living a sinful lifestyle. Sometimes I still think I'm going to hell for this. At least I'll have had some great sex before I get there. And for any current member of either cult on here - please feel free to tell your members, leaders, etc. that homos rock (and sex with them) and that they have alot of gay members who are really missing out! Then again, there are quite a few dark corners in those communities...   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 141.155.7.98 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:03 am:        Dear bettyboop, Congratulations on your success in your relationship! I hope you continue to find happiness.   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 81.179.71.255 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 5:51 pm:        Hey alivefighting - a misunderstanding on my part. The bathing suits issue is horrifying and such abuse (and thats what it is.... abuse) is totally unacceptable. I was only concerned at your Hallmark type greeting which I thought devalued the argument. My age is not an issue though it will be one day, to me! If you really had to parade in swimwear then you shud consider a legal redress as such behaviour is most inappropriate and you may well have a case.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 2:24 am:        dear banjax, Thank you for your support and acknowledging the misunderstanding. I don't have the desire to sue, but I wish they knew how much damage has been done. Every time summer comes around that memory jumps into my head along with the shame(and bathing suit shopping is tramatic enough with out that!) As for your age, I did not mean to imply that it was an issue, just as a question if you were in the CoJ at the time of that particular fiasco. I know this is a touchy subject, but one that I feel has been danced around in far too wide a circle. I am personally frustrated with some of my own hang-ups which I am getting fed up with. I want to dance! I am in therapy, which I assume everyone else here is also, but sometimes it only helps to talk to someone who has been through it. So...how about it? Any miracle cures?   dream_truth Advanced Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 929 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 207.121.36.112 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:47 am:        hi alivefighting, I wouldnt even know where to begin, but to answer your question, YES, it has gravely affected my life. such black and white thinking we were taught, and no balance.   beyondfear Junior Member Username: beyondfear Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 71.233.118.53 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 1:14 pm:        Hi Alivefighting, Unfortunately, no miracle cures here. I wish - I'd be so rich if I had one. As for the dancing - that's a tough one. I started dancing a few years after I left the community, and I fell in love with it. For some reason I never had a problem moving my body after I left. In fact, recently I was at a dance party, and several people asked me how I learned to dance - they knew that I'd come from a background where I didn't even know most of the music I was dancing to. Maybe you could start by dancing by yourself in your living room. Just turn on some of your favorite music and see what it feels like. You could even bring a mirror in there and watch your progress. It's really a lot of fun! Gradually, you might become more comfortable with your body. I think we should all get together and play some great Motown and have a huge dance party!   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 81.178.229.184 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 1:27 pm:        Hey alivefear - twice this morning I've posted a reply to you, both messages havn't appeared. Most strange! Both attempts were to encourage you and I wonder if there is some editing process or censorship that deletes messages? No conspiracy theory I am sure, but its kinda weird. Has anyone else experienced this?   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 2:36 pm:        HEY BANJAX----There better NOT be someone in her censoring or deleting. Pretty sure that is not possible but one does not know. I did try to post a reply last week 3 times and had some troubles also?? I know that sometimes messages freeze and if you click again then sometimes go through 2 or 3 times. Beyondfear-----I liked your suggestion to alivefighting about the dancing. A big motown dance party would ROCK! Alivefighting, sometimes if you dance in a large group it is not as intimidating also. I do not feel like I am a very good dancer either and usually have to have a few before I even get near the dance floor. But there certainly is some freedom and fun in it. I think because we were taught to NOT expose ourselves, NOT to move "inappropriately, NOT to have sex, NOT to even look at the other sex in the "wrong way", then this has obviously affected many of us in a negative way. These are natural growing instincts that were suppressed in so many of us. So upon leaving at an older age many of us had to mature sexually much later in live-----NOT healthy in my opinion. And as "spain" mentioned earlier it even affected her in her first few years of marriage. When memories of the emotional and physical abuse that some of us suffered surface this can be murder on our present relationships. It is a vicious circle. We got the hell out of there but our past can still haunt us in our relationships.I know that not BELIEVING all the lies that were perpetuated about sex helped me! It is BS and lets NOT forget it!   b1acksheep New member Username: b1acksheep Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 65.182.15.106 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 9:28 pm:        The thing with dancing, (and y'all are just going to have to trust me, I've thrown hundreds of dance parties, hosted club nights, and managed bars and discos) is this: you have to believe in your own sexiness. You don't have to have the "moves" or be Paris Hilton, all you need is a smile on your face, and to keep moving your body to the beat of the music and you will do alright. Smiling and acting like you are having a blast usually does the trick. For guys, remember "less is more", keep your hips swiveling and your shoulders rocking; but in no uncertain terms should you get all crazy...this will lead to embarassing scenarios. It also helps to go to large club if you are unsure of yourself. They will usually have a half decent dj and enough people that you can blend in and not feel self conscious. If you are worried about what to wear, remember you can never go wrong with all black. Good luck   beyondfear Junior Member Username: beyondfear Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 71.233.118.53 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 9:59 pm:        Who the hell would want to be Paris Hilton?! Gross. Thanks for the tips, B1acksheep. Sounds like you know what you're talking about.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 12:52 am:        thanks everyone! I think I will have to give the clubs another try. It has been a while, and in the past it did take quite a few drinks to get me out on the floor. Maybe one day it will take none! Have to go to sleep now, but my best to everyone. Dive into the fray!   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 2:50 am:        Hey, just came back from DANCING!!! (and it only took one beer) Not too bad. Moments of awkwardness and feeling like a fool.....but over all had a fun time. It helped going out with a group of people I had just met. No preconceived ideas of who I was. The funny thing is, I didn't plan to go dancing tonight. I went to an art gallery opening, met a bunch of people, we went to dinner, someone said there was a party downtown....and the rest is history. I couldn't help but laugh at the opportunity to "put my money where my mouth was". I DID IT!!!! I return the challenge for YOU to go outside your comfort zone too. Whatever it may be....something big or small....jump in! Goodnight   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 7:18 am:        WAY TO GO "ALIVEFIGHTING". Sounds like you had a great night out. Yes, jumping outside that damn comfort zone can sometimes be quite frightening. Cheers!   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:51 pm:        Just some thoughts about the homophobics at the CofJ and GCC!! My thoughts today are pure frustration and rage over how the communities have treated and treat gays or lesbians. For communities that preach forgiveness and Christianity they fall VERY SHORT!! How can they preach against gays and claim that what they say is the "gospal truth"? Who are they to say?!(hypocritically at that, I might add) How can they go as far as to say that those "fallen from grace" are not welcomed back at the CofJ? Does one need an invitation to enter God's house of worship? I THINK NOT!! My thoughts are all over the place on this today. Along with the rage I also feel sadness for those that are being shunned and treated like •••• because they are living their lives the way that makes them happy and hopefully enjoying themselves too. Any other thoughts or insights on this?   onshore Member Username: onshore Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 64.222.224.200 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 1:32 am:        I still don't get it!!! HOW could Cay and Judy be homophobic and be practicing Lesbians? Maybe I'm clueless, but this seems ah…shall we say…a bit contradictory to me.   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.26.25 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:31 am:        CAN'T agree with you more "onshore" but my intention wasn't to focus on C and J's past sexual practises(even though they were establishing a double standard). I feel more for the present attitude and how hurtful the communities are to those who have come out. They treat them as lower human beings when we all know that they are people just like you and me----they feel hurt, happiness and love just as deeply. Making them seem so different is just down right ridiculous. I find it ironical that the state of Mass. is the only state that allows same sex marriage. How about we request some same sex marriages at that chapel. It should be used for some more positive things!! Don't ya think? Of course Canada's doors are always open for same sex marriages as it is it down right just ok here!!! Lets keep the communication going and the doors wide open so that wonderful people don't fear the coming out and what will happen!! Just a few of my thoughts for the day------Cheers   exmonk Member Username: exmonk Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.163.52.88 Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:22 pm:        Just wanted to say something on this subject for the record. I left at the age of 41. I was still a virgin if you will. It was more than a year before my first "encounter". I moved in with my girlfriend who I married. Up till that point, the teaching and policy on sex in the community for married couples was no sex unless you are trying to have a baby. Sex was reserved for procreation only! So the administration assumed they could control the sexual realtionship for all married couples. Unmarried people were to not even think about sex. Now in the monastic side of things, masturbation is considered self abuse. And was to be confessed at once and you were made to feel so dirty and shameful for it. In the Brotherhood, even wet dreams were to be confessed. Like you actually had a choice in your early 20's when hormones are surging though your veins and you are trying to suppress all sexual desires meanwhile the founding mothers are practicing lesbians. So with all this in my background and remembering that King David in the Psalmes was a man after God's own heart and was very passionate about women and had copious sex with many women...I had no qualms about having a sexual relationship with the one woman I knew I would be spending the rest of my life with. So with the repressed sexual impulses of community members, I can see why there is so much backbiting, stress and sexual frustration in community life. Yet another way to instill the cult like controll by the present administration. I heard a minister preach recently that sex is honoring to God because he wired us that way and meant it for our pleasure, destressing and love for our spouses. Shame to those who seek to make it shameful and who at the same time were practising the very sexual activity they condemned. Just wanted to vent on this subject and hope those who need healing in this area will find it and have the freedom to love their spouses in a meaningful realtionship unhindered by guilt instilled by abusive people who assume they can say whether or not you may engage in sex or not. Sex is not a sin.   underhiswing New member Username: underhiswing Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.60.47.137 Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 3:23 pm:        Is anyone still posting on this site? I don't want to be posting and no one's even reading anything! The last posting seems quite a while ago...anyone out there?   dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.224.166.89 Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 8:33 pm:        I still read often, and post occasionally, but I think it all got overwhelming at a certain point and I needed a break. This thread just started last April and it was quite a shock to see how many of us were out here and had so many heart-wrenching stories to share. I think there are others who still read and post here....there just hasnt been much action lately. Any insight you have to add would be greatly appreciated!   underhiswing New member Username: underhiswing Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.60.47.137 Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:15 pm:        Hi DT..God bless you! Thanks for the response and glad to know someone's there! I so understand about it being overwhelming. When I first discovered this site, I wanted to write a million things to everyone, but it IS so overwhelming. And I just want to post a bit at a time because I realize there are some people who are still healing from deep wounds and I just don't want to blow anyone away or sound preachy. I am so blessed and feel so fortunate that God looked down on my pathetic state and never gave up on me. It's so according to the Bible about how God takes the lonely and puts them in families (after the Community!) and how He makes the beggar wise to "confound" those who think they're so high and mighty. I am so blessed beyond words...I don't have a drop of what those people still in there have as far as education or power or money, but God has so made me rich and healed me in other ways they've never imagined, and He's "restoring the years the locust have eaten"..I have to say, everything with God is supernatural and beyond our own understanding, just like "Who is God?" and "How long is eternity?" etc. We can't see Him, or understand Him or any of those tangible things that we're so used to, but He's more real than anything we see around us. Just to give a cool story, one day I was sitting at my receptionist desk at work and I was just talking to the Lord and said, "I know You're real, but please just remind me how our unseen battle, the spiritual battle, is so much more real than what I see. Just show me, Lord. Show me!" So I went to lunch later that day, and I was driving down a main road and out of nowhere, a big van flew by me and cut me off and I had to swerve. The van was airbrushed with all kinds of demonic skeleton warriors. Then after it flew by, I saw the biggest warrior "demon" on the back and he had a sword, shield, helmet, and cape and his eyes were red lights that were lit up. Guess what the license plate said. SHOW ME. I almost freaked out and was like "Ok Lord, I believe I believe! Yikes!" So, ever since then, I know there is war being waged for us in the heavenlies. And to me, that's more down to earth than when I just went to the dentist and felt that needle in the mouth. (Good news there, too! My payment was waived because MassHealth covers composite fillings! There IS a God and He IS so real!) Ok...now you're probably sorry I preached...I don't want to sound preachy, but really don't know how else to say what I just said. God is always there to help us and work miracles for us, but it does mean we have to put aside our own understanding and trust that He loves us enough to take care of us. I've found that out the very hard, very long way. God bless you dt! I absolutely love you and my prayers are so with you!!!! XOXOXOXOXO g   underhiswing New member Username: underhiswing Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.60.47.137 Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:19 pm:        Hi DT..God bless you! Thanks for the response and glad to know someone's there! I so understand about it being overwhelming. When I first discovered this site, I wanted to write a million things to everyone, but it IS so overwhelming. And I just want to post a bit at a time because I realize there are some people who are still healing from deep wounds and I just don't want to blow anyone away or sound preachy. I am so blessed and feel so fortunate that God looked down on my pathetic state and never gave up on me. It's so according to the Bible about how God takes the lonely and puts them in families (after the Community!) and how He makes the beggar wise to "confound" those who think they're so high and mighty. I am so blessed beyond words...I don't have a drop of what those people still in there have as far as education or power or money, but God has so made me rich and healed me in other ways they've never imagined, and He's "restoring the years the locust have eaten"..I have to say, everything with God is supernatural and beyond our own understanding, just like "Who is God?" and "How long is eternity?" etc. We can't see Him, or understand Him or any of those tangible things that we're so used to, but He's more real than anything we see around us. Just to give a cool story, one day I was sitting at my receptionist desk at work and I was just talking to the Lord and said, "I know You're real, but please just remind me how our unseen battle, the spiritual battle, is so much more real than what I see. Just show me, Lord. Show me!" So I went to lunch later that day, and I was driving down a main road and out of nowhere, a big van flew by me and cut me off and I had to swerve. The van was airbrushed with all kinds of demonic skeleton warriors. Then after it flew by, I saw the biggest warrior "demon" on the back and he had a sword, shield, helmet, and cape and his eyes were red lights that were lit up. Guess what the license plate said. SHOW ME. I almost freaked out and was like "Ok Lord, I believe I believe! Yikes!" So, ever since then, I know there is war being waged for us in the heavenlies. And to me, that's more down to earth than when I just went to the dentist and felt that needle in the mouth. (Good news there, too! My payment was waived because MassHealth covers composite fillings! There IS a God and He IS so real!) Ok...now you're probably sorry I preached...I don't want to sound preachy, but really don't know how else to say what I just said. God is always there to help us and work miracles for us, but it does mean we have to put aside our own understanding and trust that He loves us enough to take care of us. I've found that out the very hard, very long way. God bless you dt! I absolutely love you and my prayers are so with you!!!! XOXOXOXOXO g   underhiswing New member Username: underhiswing Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.60.47.137 Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:23 pm:        Hi DT..God bless you! Thanks for the response and glad to know someone's there! I so understand about it being overwhelming. When I first discovered this site, I wanted to write a million things to everyone, but it IS so overwhelming. And I just want to post a bit at a time because I realize there are some people who are still healing from deep wounds and I just don't want to blow anyone away or sound preachy. I am so blessed and feel so fortunate that God looked down on my pathetic state and never gave up on me. It's so according to the Bible about how God takes the lonely and puts them in families (after the Community!) and how He makes the beggar wise to "confound" those who think they're so high and mighty. I am so blessed beyond words...I don't have a drop of what those people still in there have as far as education or power or money, but God has so made me rich and healed me in other ways they've never imagined, and He's "restoring the years the locust have eaten"..I have to say, everything with God is supernatural and beyond our own understanding, just like "Who is God?" and "How long is eternity?" etc. We can't see Him, or understand Him or any of those tangible things that we're so used to, but He's more real than anything we see around us. Just to give a cool story, one day I was sitting at my receptionist desk at work and I was just talking to the Lord and said, "I know You're real, but please just remind me how our unseen battle, the spiritual battle, is so much more real than what I see. Just show me, Lord. Show me!" So I went to lunch later that day, and I was driving down a main road and out of nowhere, a big van flew by me and cut me off and I had to swerve. The van was airbrushed with all kinds of demonic skeleton warriors. Then after it flew by, I saw the biggest warrior "demon" on the back and he had a sword, shield, helmet, and cape and his eyes were red lights that were lit up. Guess what the license plate said. SHOW ME. I almost freaked out and was like "Ok Lord, I believe I believe! Yikes!" So, ever since then, I know there is war being waged for us in the heavenlies. And to me, that's more down to earth than when I just went to the dentist and felt that needle in the mouth. (Good news there, too! My payment was waived because MassHealth covers composite fillings! There IS a God and He IS so real!) Ok...now you're probably sorry I preached...I don't want to sound preachy, but really don't know how else to say what I just said. God is always there to help us and work miracles for us, but it does mean we have to put aside our own understanding and trust that He loves us enough to take care of us. I've found that out the very hard, very long way. God bless you dt! I absolutely love you and my prayers are so with you!!!! XOXOXOXOXO g   dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1187 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.224.166.89 Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:33 pm:        Hi again underhiswing! Although I do not share your experience regarding god and religion I am sure there are some here who do. After years of praying I finally came to the conclusion that there is no god who answers prayer which was a lot easier to accept than the alternative - there is a god which simply has no interest in me or my prayers. It has been a very difficult road for me and I did not have any family take me in or help me when I left. I am finally getting some healing in my life and learning to move on, however, and life is looking much brighter now that I realize I cant keep waiting for someone to fix the pain or provide me with security or safety. There are so many beautiful people in the world, and others even less fortuante than I. Love is what matters and I try to keep my focus on Truth and Love every day. I love you too! You can email me if you like, and if there are others you would like to get in touch with I will see what I can do. mindawake@gmail.com   searchlight Member Username: searchlight Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.93.13.35 Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:22 am:        Dear underhiswing, The answer to your question is, yes, there is somebody out there! We have been rather quiet, which may be a good thing. After reading your post I was thinking that for me, my silence means that for now, my "venting" stage is over. Perhaps there are many stages of healing - (and these steps are probably different for everyone!) In looking back over the past months I can now "see" what I was doing here on factnet, and why it was necessary for me. In writing this now, I sense that it is really addressed to those at the CJ who are reading and who know me and once loved me. Whether or not they still do cannot be my main concern now, although the pain and sadness is still palpable at times. I know I have hurt them because of these posts and I know they cannot understand. I am convinced, however that we both (me and old friends from CJ) MUST be on our separate journeys. They are as firm in their convictions as I am of mine. I must no longer try to convince, tear down or dissuade them. That was my venting stage, and for me, to continue that now would interfere in my current path of personal discovery and healing. There is freedom for me in arriving at this place. There is less energy expended on outward struggling - shadow boxing with an unseen foe - and more more energy spent on finding my life! I feel more peace, but not total peace. I feel less need to convince myself of my worth, but often slip back into "I'm just as good as them". What a useless and silly arguement I still engage in, but how easily I can forget and begin it again. My life is full, full, full, and I am finally able to begin to find fullness and fulfilment in the mundane (how very Benedictine!!). My life is not dramatic or even exciting, but I feel good - in fact better than ever. If there is forgiveness due than I gladly give it. If there are apologies in order, I extend them with utmost sincerity. I do not ask for either in return, because to demand anything at this point is to take myself back to the previous stage in my journey. This is only my walk, and I do not want to impose my own course on anyone else. I still have many, many long roads ahead and I know now that I can put one foot in front of the other for each and every day of healing. I have come this far and I cannot give up. My life awaits me - I will run, not walk!! Blessings to you all, and may we all find peace. P.s. I would like to add a poem that has meant the world to me. Maybe you will like it. I have many, many more if this speaks to your heart.   searchlight Member Username: searchlight Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.93.13.35 Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:33 am:        The Journey by Mary Oliver One day you finally knew what you had to do, and began, though the voices around you kept shouting their bad advice- though the whole house began to tremble and you felt the old tug at your ankles. "Mend my life!" each voice cried. But you didn’t stop. You knew what you had to do, though the wind pried with its stiff fingers at the very foundations, though their melancholy was terrible. It was already late enough, and a wild night, and the road full of fallen branches and stones. but little by little, as you left their voices behind, the stars began to burn through the sheets of clouds, and there was a new voice which you slowly recognized as your own, that kept you company as you strode deeper and deeper into the world, determined to do the only thing you could do determined to save the only life you could save   underhiswing New member Username: underhiswing Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 24.60.47.137 Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 7:50 pm:        Thank-You for sharing that beautiful poem Searchlight! So proud of you doing what you're doing! Right on! God Bless and my prayers are always with you! =) XOXOXOXO U   exmonk Member Username: exmonk Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.163.52.88 Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 1:13 am:        Saw a bumper sticker that was a bit biting but had some truth to it: Abstinence makes the Church grow fondlers The greatest gifts of God is love, not nessecarirly sex, but just love. I read caressing, holding, hugging and affectionate touch as part of the godly love. Years of abstinance causes deep seated yearning and resentment from being denied someform of love as to living in a sterile invironment. Some peoplefeel that the presence of love, physical touching and sweet words of affection prevent you from being in total union with God. So some lonely souls choose that and find this feeling they wish to proclaim over everyone for the mst pure union with God. That is grossly eroneous on the fact that God himself is the holy force in that union, definately NOT us. If you straongly feel that way then practice it but to force that on others is wrong. The light caress of a womans hands on my neck are more delightful than pasionate sex for me. Great Spirituallity is in fact "REALITY" Profound as that sounds, it gloriously simplifies everything. From that secret and private encounter with God, comes the most powerfull personal presence of God with in our spirits to shine forth to blest others and surely not to be manipulated my those who set thmeselves in authority to tame thiskind of practice. This leads to explosive creativity and there for the desire of leader to tame it can just as easily detroy it with the blame placed directly on the individual with the particulare creative gift. Its really late and I am looseing altitude I am not make the best sense of things. WBF   searchlight Member Username: searchlight Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.93.14.98 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 8:58 am:        Wow exmonk, not exactly sure of all your meaning, but I did have one thought that may be pertinent.... My own need to find spiritual answers, recently lead me to sit down and chat with a celibate priest. Although I am not Catholic, his unique perspective and understanding of Benedictine spirituality gave him a level of understanding that I found helpful. The intention of the meeting was not to bash but to find a way to move forward. We discussed the past in terms of moving on, not looking back. The most profound statement he made during the course of the meeting was this: The gift to God of your autonomy can be a powerful and wonderful offering, but if you have never possessed autonomy, it is not an honest, true gift. For me, the concept of one's autonomy as a gift to God helped me tremendously in viewing the past as well as understanding how to grapple with my faith in the future. Therefore, it is not the celibacy (or whatever "gift" we each gave) that was false, but, perhaps, the fact that some of us were not equipped to give it in the truest sense. It was, in essense, our parents who gave the gift of our autonomy. This realization has allowed me to move forward and grasp hold of what it means to be autonomous and gain possession of this precious commodity. While living in Community, I truly believed I possessed this gift. It was only after leaving that I realized that this belief was greatly clouded with childhood fears. I learned that as a young girl I internalized all the scary scriptures about hell and damnation, probably more than most. I was convinced, even as an adult, that I was a "bad girl". I had lived for so many years under those fears, that I didn't even know when I was making decisions based upon them. The tremendous and horrible freedom of being without any form of religious structure has given me the necessary tools to deconstruct who I am and what I believe. It has been a terrifying process at times. I very well may choose at some point to give the gift of my autonomy to God. In fact, since it is my heart's desire to do so, I may be at risk of throwing it away prematurely. The priest encouraged me to just be...to wait....to visit many places of worship....or not go to church at all....but most of all to be patient. God is not in a hurry. This was a huge comfort to me. I know now that my heart is toward God, even if no one can tell from the outside! It is my own personal faith journey. I know this will not ease your pain, but maybe it will help you, as it did me, to see a clearer path forward by gaining some perspective on the past.   spain New member Username: spain Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 69.204.222.248 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 3:52 pm:        Searchlight, What that priest said to you is really helpful and well expressed. I felt the same way about taking single vows at CofJ. I was not an autonomous person who gave that gift to God; instead, it was very clear to me that my life would be hell at Grenville (from leaders) unless I did take those vows. So - I did and it sure made life much easier for quite a while. IN our situation at Grenville, I also saw that this was a way for Charles, (who is very hung up about sex, and who didn't like all these single women around,) to control us or get us into a place where he thought we were no threat sexually to him/ other men. Just like those Muslim men who make their women cover up because they, themselves, can't control their lust, or whatever.....   cryfreedom Junior Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.235.229.255 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 7:17 pm:        JUST CHECKING TO SEE IF THIS GOES THROUGH(HAVING PROBLEMS SENDING LATELY   cryfreedom Junior Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.235.229.255 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 7:20 pm:        searchlight-----WOW, so well said and great to hear your insightful entries again. What the priest said to you is helpful(like spain said)and certainly a positive way to look at this all. It sounds like you are doing well and moving forward. I like what you said about God not being in a hurry. Good thing he is so patient and understanding for us, eh.   samham Junior Member Username: samham Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 199.232.151.1 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 9:59 pm:        "God is patient" - so different from the God we grew up with - I love those three words - it's like no matter how long we take to develop in our journey through life, spiritually and emotionally, God will always be waiting for us - knowing that eventually the light will dawn and we will evolve into the people we are supposed to be. Thank you searchlight - you have raised my spirits and my hope for myself and those still trapped in the COJ.....   exmonk Member Username: exmonk Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.163.52.88 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 11:38 pm:        Thank you Searchlight, That is a very good word and I needed to hear it. My post was written after a long hard day and was a bit of a venting. I tried to erase it but too late. I feel differently now and your words are comforting. Take care, E   cryfreedom Junior Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.235.231.170 Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 6:37 pm:        Just heard something on a show tonight that I thought was good. "Lifestyle is NOT your sexuality". It was made clear that how you act and what you do is your lifestyle and not your sexuality. I thought this might be an eye opener for some How often is it said:"oh that is just the liftstyle they have chosen." And:"this is something that can be healed". Like being gay or a lesbian is some friggin disease. I just don't see it like that. Once again time to accept each of God's children for who they are. Some are friends and some are family, still wanting to belong. So I say reach out and make them feel a part of your life instead of condemming them for who THEY ARE. (Message edited by admin on November 11, 2006)   exmonk Member Username: exmonk Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.163.52.88 Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 12:10 am:        Hey Cryfreedom. Very good point. I have met other christians who range in the spectrum from regarding gays as not children of God but "creatures" of God. All the way to "don't hate the person, hate the sin in the person". And people will quote scripture to validate their views on both sides of the issue. I do not pretend to be the judge and therefore do not condemn anyone for their sexual preference or life style. I do know that the bible says "Love one another". And people will argue the point of "tough love" and not compromising God's word. One gay man said to me that love is not a sin. A profound statement for sure. I personally am not wired that way and am very much hetero-sexual. I have many gay friends. They are christians and beleive in God. Who am I to judge. One thing for sure I am certain of...there is a God, and I am not Him.   spain New member Username: spain Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 69.204.222.248 Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 11:19 pm:        Homosexulaity is an "abomination". This is one fo the frequently quoted scriptures. A dear friend of mine, a nun for 70 years, has pointed out to members of our Bible study that "abomination" was also decreed for women who wear men's clothing (ie: pants), etc, etc. Will we condemn women who wear pants the same as we condemn Homosexuals? Goes against the scriptures, I think.   plainoldme New member Username: plainoldme Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 172.129.251.47 Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 10:21 am:        How has growing up in the CoJ affected your relationships outside the CoJ? Yes definitely!!! A marriage that was so abusive emotionally it nearly ruined me as a person and almost ended my life. What was I to look for? I was never taught about having someone in my life that I could love in a "relationship" way. It was wrong to even think that way I would go to hell. Any attention shown by the opposite sex, right or wrong it was fine by me. Wow how wrong was I in thinking that way!!!!!! I am thinking differently now thank goodness! Do you find it hard to get past the drummed in mind set of sexuality is wrong and dirty? I went overboard because of the drummed in mind set. Curiosity killed my cat even with it's 9 lives. We were never able to grow up as normal hormone raging kids. It was stunted and that is very dangerous in my eyes. Knowledge is power and if we were taught properly it wouldn't have been an issue. It's not dirty. It's a beautiful thing, an art form and much needed in relationships for intimacy. Is is hard to "cut loose" with out accidentally going overboard because you don't know what the "outside world's" boundaries are? You tend to know what the outside world's boundries are when you first try it. There are no boundries. That's where it is our responsibility to make them. It's funny but God did give us that right to make decisions for ourselves and if it was wrong then we would know someway and try something else. I never knew I could think for myself or act for myself. Took me a while to figure that out. And yes I have experienced every kind of sexual act out there to make that decision. I made my boundries. }   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 66.65.36.166 Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 11:41 pm:        plainoldme, It's good to get your responses to the beginning questions of this topic. Thank you! My initial experience of the outside world's boundaries was very confusing. I discovered that there were many unwritten rules about things you shouldn't do, that made no sense to me in comparison to the things that it was OK to do. I also found myself to be an easy target. Fresh out of CoJ, I might as well have worn a sign saying "easy prey". Much too trusting, and actually believed that what people said was what they meant. Unfortunately, I learned otherwise. Today I am much more cautious. I don't like not being able to trust.   kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.234.237.105 Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 7:09 pm:        When I first ventured outside my childhood background, I was rather surpised to find that people "in the world" were not so different than people from the GCC and COJ. Underneath whatever life philosophy they pursued, people want to love and be loved. Sex as an end in itself is as low a priority to atheists as it is to Roman Catholics (which doesn't mean it isn't some kind of priority).... Sex is a wonderful way of loving. Monogamy is a wonderful way of loving and the best ongoing playground for sex. My observation as a young married person was that too many people in community were substituting food or lawns or flowers or spiritual perfection for what they really needed, a good roll in the hay with their main squeeze.... I always thought that was sad.   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.210.146.31 Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 7:46 pm:        Understandable of course Km.... but what is your point?   kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.234.237.105 Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 4:37 am:        The point is that many communities of all kinds create loyalty by building a we vs them imagery. The desire for love and exclusiveness is far more universal than we were taught. A simple point, I guess. So what are you doing here (being that it's your first post and all)?   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 1:53 pm:        EASY, EASY NOW!!!! All are welcome on this board and one doesn't really have to make a specific point. One can just voice some opinions and state some facts also. It doesn't always have to lead to a big debate. Go easy!!!   banjax New member Username: banjax Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 81.179.103.98 Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 2:17 pm:        Hey cryfreedom thanks for this. My question to Km was not negative of course - far from it in fact. I hoped to draw more from Km, but my attempt was understandably inept. By the by Km I have posted on this board since May 2006, though I'm intrigued as to why my comment was listed as a 'first post' - there too dear cryfreedom has posted many times and yet his comment is listed as his third! But to answer your question as to what I am doing here..... I have visited the CofJ in Orleans many times and over quite a number of years and I am therefore very concerned for the welfare of those who have left. It is obvious that many have suffered and I think that in a way this CofJ/GCC board can help in letting folk share their pain, hopes and fears. By sharing many I hope will find comfort and in time a sense of closure. So that's why Im here!   cryfreedom New member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 Posted on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 7:53 pm:        HEY BANJAX'S ------No hard feelings as I just wanted to make sure everyone felt comfortable sharing what they wanted to. I now see where you were coming from. And what's with the "post numbers" being all screwed up? Very strange, indeed. Take care one and all and have a good weekend   gayatgcc New member Username: gayatgcc Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 70.49.87.195 Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 1:52 am:        I was forced into counselling by FF when GCC discovered I was gay (I was 16, now 30). It f***ed me up and I am still reeling. I was treated worse than a piece of s**t and made to feel that it would be better if I killed myself (in fact, FF told me that my family would be relieve if I moved away or died). It wasn’t until recently that I began sorting through the mess that GCC caused in my life. It has ruined relationships, friendships, and my life. I never realized that it had messed me up so fu**ing much! F**k!   friendof New member Username: friendof Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 69.88.116.170 Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:59 pm:        Hi All.......... I hope you don't mind me posting in this forum: I didn't live in the coj, but I dated someone who did (and we remain very close friends). My relationship was victimized-- I felt victimized --by the sexual dysfunctions of my partner. In fact, my ex-boyfriend (who lived in that commune as a teenager) was so repressed that to this day he is unable to orgasm during sex (only with masturbation). It's called retarded ••••••••••• (among other things), and is common in repressed individuals with a strict religious background. He also didn't masturbate until very late (19) and sometimes has erectile dysfunction. It is abnormal, but common in this circumstance. It may be difficult to talk about it, but I only want to reach out to someone who might understand what a strain this can be. I know that not everyone may be open to talking about these things. Not being able to orgasm is about control: They don't want to give away any more control of themselves. There is a lot of good information on the web about it. So I liked to try to make him orgasm. And sometimes I did, with my hand. I remember the first time it happened we high-fived.   courage2heal New member Username: courage2heal Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.97.91.116 Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 3:58 pm:        Dear friendof, My heart goes out to all persons who have experienced suffering as a result of their participation in religious cults. I was once profoundly in love with a wonderful young woman whose psyche was wounded by FF/GCC/COJ. When we were together, she would recount some of her experiences at GCC. I felt so sad. I felt so angry with FF and those persons who had once harmed her and many others. Many young people tried so hard to be 'perfectly good and pure' and please him. Many were punished by being unable to meet his toxic ideals of perfection. FF was like an invisible ghost that haunted her mind, causing her such inner conflict and turmoil. I knew that I couldn't alter the past and undo the harm that had occurred to her. I could only hope that in time, she would eventually walk the path of healing. The recently discovered information on this board has helped me greatly with my own relational grieving process, by deepening my understanding of the harmful dynamics she experienced during her formative years at GCC. I've been through my own shattering experiences of gradually leaving a mind-controlling religious cult. It takes tremendous courage to honestly face the realities of such organizations and beliefs; to face ourselves fully and completely; to undertake the long journey of healing, maturation and transformation. Sexuality is such an integral part of our humanity. Fortunately, the shame, guilt and humiliation experienced in such cults can be gradually healed. The sex-hating, indoctrinated ideals of perfect purity, perfection and absolute self-control can be gradually dissolved, and replaced by a tender acceptance of our full, perfectly imperfect humanity. You are right that everyone isn't comfortable with discussing this subject. It isn't easy to do so when the conditioned religious message of guilt and shame, reinforced over many years of cult participation, results in suppression and repression of this powerful, essential aspect of one's humanity. It is wonderful that you are such a good friend to the young man who was wounded at GCC. Best wishes, C2H   friendof New member Username: friendof Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 69.88.116.170 Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:52 pm:        i think that many of the people in coj, after being separated from their parents, have psychological abandonment issues-- and have major intimacy issues. period. since my ex had no privacy growing up, he demands it now in ways that are overboard and militaristic. it breaks my heart thinking that he never had anyone to tell him how special he is-- how beautiful, talented, and amazing. i ask him "who do you love now? who did you love growing up?" and it's a short answer. the abandonment issue really unravels me. i am infuriated. a perfectly good person, who could have had a happy, normal loving life, was abandoned. it's just infuriating. you all were given big burdens to bear. you all bear them well.   friendof New member Username: friendof Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 69.88.116.170 Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:17 pm:        "The sex-hating, indoctrinated ideals of perfect purity, perfection and absolute self-control can be gradually dissolved, and replaced by a tender acceptance of our full, perfectly imperfect humanity." I love this quote. It's really sweet. Good for you. Thanks courage2heal.   jes_noonan New member Username: jes_noonan Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 67.71.21.159 Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:57 pm:        REALLY interesting thread. I was actually affected in a much different manner than what I've read from others here. I feel as though much of my time at GCC was spent being told what I couldn't have, couldn't do, etc. Obviously, one of these things was girlfriends / sex. I actually got busted for some "activities" that took place on a train with another student on our way back to school from a break. I ended up getting suspended for a month and a half over it while she had to work in the staff living quarters for the same length of time. Anyway, my point is that this was one example of being told that something is a sin and effectively unattainable. Being a non-conformist (not to mention a teenage / early twenties guy with normal urges), what do you think the first thing to come into my mind every time I saw a pretty girl was after I left? I turned into an animal and treated women as objects, not people. They were my tool which I used to defy the institution with. I never learned how to act towards females in a relationship sense as I was never allowed to. I was told that it was wrong and more than once got reprimanded for trying. I still have these issues this day, although not as bad.   wagener84 New member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 199.214.192.50 Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:09 am:        I just recently came across this site and have decided to weigh in with my thoughts. I attended GCC from 77-84 and was one of the first students to "run the table" from Gr 7 to 13. I have mixed feelings of my time at GCC but with respect to sexuality, the experience has left me somewhat damaged. For years I towed the party line and believed what I was told about the fairer sex and my feelings toward them. Any feeling of attraction to females was pure evil and the devil taking over my soul. Needless to say I bought into that mindset and would be overcome with a terrible feeling of guilt and self-loathing whenever my thoughts strayed. Finally, in Gr. 13 I fell for a nice girl and we developed a healthy relationship (incognito of course) For the first time, I started to develop my own thoughts and positions on what I thought was right and wrong that didn't necessarily conform to what the administration had set for me for the previous 6 years. Well, when this relationship was discovered, all hell broke loose. I spent over 8 hours in a "light session" for my sins and driven into a deep guilt and depression over my "innappropriate feelings." After being a loyal and faithful subject of AH and CF for six years, I was made to feel like a piece of •••• for simply growing up and developing what are normal feelings towards a female. I basically left GCC in disgrace and have only been back once (1990). I spent 12 years in the Military, and have seen it all. but could not overcome the guilt GCC loaded onto my back just prior to graduation. For years I had difficulty with guilt and self-loathing after sharing intimacy with my spouse. Counselling and the love of my wife has helped but clearly the bagage remains. I guess its very difficult for me because I was a loyal follower of the program for my entire adolescense. I had felt sheltered by GCC for years because of the pain back home (vexacious step-mother, alcoholic father. I looked to GCC to protect me only to have them shun me just prior to leaving. It was their gift to me for having developed my own thoughts and emotions. I appreciate GCC in many ways but also have much anger and regret at discovering that many things I was led to believe were simply lies.   david_curtis New member Username: david_curtis Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 152.163.100.139 Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 9:23 pm:        Hello, This is an interesting topic. I didn't attend GCC but I was involved in a church in Iowa who had a similar approach to sex. I didn't date until I was in my early twenties. Everyone, meaning church elders..etc. were so worried about the teenagers and the young adult members would have sex. It is crazy now to think that I would let anyone tell me how meeting a women and at some point having sex is wrong. Obviously not all the young members could refrain. But I wanted to be a good church going person so I didn't have sex until I was 27. By that time I was hardly ever attending church and I realized how insane it was to allow anyone, or oranization to have that much control over me. I don't feel that I have been horribly deformed from my time. But when I started dating when I moved to the Washington D.C area I could tell I lacked confidence to approach a women. I guess I still do. I wish that everyone who has been affected by this guilt trip towards a natural sexual desire is healed. Either by time or that realization that it was never wrong in the first place.   gayatgcc Junior Member Username: gayatgcc Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 67.70.70.121 Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 9:38 pm:        I was having sex while at GCC ... and lots of it! Being a gay teenager, living in an all-boys dorm! It was like Christmas! But after the fun and the thrill had worn off after sneaking away from “another guy’s” room, I would find myself crying alone in the bathroom, contemplating suicide, because I had sinned yet again! ... and I wasn’t just feel guilty about my own sin, but I felt I coerced or tricked my fellow classmates into engaging in sexual activity with me. I have shared this experience with close friends from Grenville and I usually get the “at least someone was ‘getting it’ at Grenville” reaction ... but to me, there is still a lot of shame and guilt associated with these acts. 10 years later, the shame still lingers. GayAtGcc   former_gcc_staff New member Username: former_gcc_staff Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 137.186.250.226 Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:29 pm:        The fact that you were coerced or tricked is terrible, I'm sorry that happened to you. I've mentioned this in another post, but tho I am straight myself, the way christians treated gay people and what they believe about them is one of the reasons I've left my faith. It's not like you just decided "hey I think today I'm going to start being gay." Tell me if I'm wrong but I get the feeling from this and other posts that you sometimes feel like you are doing something wrong by being gay. I just don't see god (if he's real) creating someone a certain way and then hating him for it. This does not make you a bad person!! you are who you are and people need to accept that.   gayatgcc Junior Member Username: gayatgcc Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 65.94.113.25 Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:01 am:        The sad thing is that GCC teaches that "gay" is never an option in heaven ... therefore, for me ... I stopped believe altogether.   bettyboop New member Username: bettyboop Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 69.205.224.127 Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:42 am:        FF had incredibly warped opinions about homosexuality, even for fundamentalist standards. he actually told me there was no such thing as "gay". it didn't exist. therefore, i couldn't be gay. believe it or not, that saved me from suicide. gayatgcc - it's taken me 10 years of deprogramming to begin to get some of his incredibly destructive brainwashing out.   former_gcc_staff New member Username: former_gcc_staff Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 137.186.250.226 Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:47 am:        Again I consider myself agnostic, but still I hate when people think they can decide who gets to heaven or not.   amacneil New member Username: amacneil Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 206.47.98.175 Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 10:52 pm:        Being relatively new to this site, I was reading through some very old posts, trying to get a sense for everything that has gone before when I came across this thread... gayatgcc - did you say..."I felt I coerced or tricked my fellow classmates into engaging in sexual activity with me." I ask this, because in the following post, Former_gcc_staff says... "The fact that you were coerced or tricked is terrible, I'm sorry that happened to you. Sorry, I'm just a little confused. Andrew   tiny New member Username: tiny Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 70.50.215.250 Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 12:23 am:        DT, I understand how you can feel there is no God because He did not answer your prayers. I felt the same way for years. I left the church and even became a bit of an atheist. Then I looked deep into myself. I believed there was a God really deep inside. I made myself believe there wasn't one because a) He didn't answer my prayers, and b) because I didn't want to be accountable for what I was doing. Since this is a sex forum I should say I became addicted to sex. I am not saying that you do not believe because you don't want to be accountable, but you did say He did not answer your prayers. Another thing I learned AFTER I began trying to live a Christian life again is that God will NOT answer prayer if it does not fit into his plan. I learned that we should be praying for what He wants for our life, not what we want. As in the Lord's Prayer, "Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven". And even though we feel He does not answer our prayer, He does. Sometimes it's no. Sometimes it's later. Prayer is always answered. There is a God, don't let anything or anyone make you believe otherwise. If I can quickly share an experience I had while at Grenville I hope it will help. I was in a period of doubt about God's existence. I prayed every night for quite a while for God to give me a sign that he was really there. Finally one night I awoke from my sleep. I was laying on my stomach and looked up, which was the back of a locker for those who spent time in the dorm. The locker backing was painted a light green but everything was so bright that there was no colour. All I saw was extremely bright white light and my outline in a shadow. Imagine that! I knew it wasn't a flashlight, it was way too intense a light, yet I did not panic, (we're talking Grenville here), I didn't even look to see what it was. I still can't believe I didn't look, but I thought to myself, "Okay, I know you're there.", and I went back to sleep. I felt a peace like I never did while at the school, or since really. I did turn my back on Him after this, especially after I left the school, but I went back to Him and He was there. I changed the way I saw Him. I realized that he was not there to answer my every desire like some genie, but I was here to answer His. Then He started answering my prayers because my prayers were within his will. Not all my prayers get answered with a yes, but they all get answered. I hope this helps some. Maybe shed a different light on it.   grenvillan88 Junior Member Username: grenvillan88 Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.233.105.211 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 10:56 pm:        amacneil: i see you've returned to gcc after times of driving up and down the driveway with your motorcycle. grenville christian, college, our second home we will be faithful where-ever we may go from here to timbuktu.... well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper does the fact that your loyality is to a MISMANAGED AND DEFUNCT second home? your petty intimidation tactics are here now and starting with gayatgcc. smarten up before you have to apologize in tears like your father. dont forget to ask for donations after like he did in his apology in a mid 1990's newsletter. BEGGARS Christian College was a more appropriate name in retrospect   grenvillan88 Junior Member Username: grenvillan88 Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.233.105.211 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:04 pm:        my error - its not your second home, its your only home where my money was wasted and forced labour was ethical in the administrations eye.   late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:31 pm:        I'm not sure why you're jumping down amacneil's throat when he raises a perfectly valid question. I know gayatgcc didn't mean he literally tricked anyone into engaging in "adult relations" but none the less gayatgcc's post was turned into something different then was originally written. Not sure why that requires a verbal beatdown...   grenvillan88 Junior Member Username: grenvillan88 Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.233.105.211 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:51 pm:        "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper " "well done andrew, you returned home and attempted to bully someone in the last supper "   poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 99.232.177.62 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:56 pm:        Hey Andrew; Hang tough. Grenvillan didn't read GayatGCC's or Former GCC staff posts to see what you were talking about. Former GCC staff -- misread GayatGCC's post. Much ado about nothing. Grenvillan is just spoiling for a fight. Glad to see you back on Factnet.   grenvillan88 Junior Member Username: grenvillan88 Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.233.105.211 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 12:22 am:        Thats your opinion poormanspudding, i see andrew's post as trying to intimidate another person. thats my take on it especially after his actions last saturday. Your post showed bias as you would not even think that my words will have substance behind it or even bother to ask. everyone is entitled to their opinions. i have mine and you have yours GCC is almost dead. I did not not lose anything, perhaps some are sad, i am not. I will stand up for the oppressed. andrews actions spoke louder than words on Sept 29, 2007 (Message edited by grenvillan88 on October 06, 2007)   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 69.201.141.241 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 12:33 am:        Grenvillan88, BACK UP! This is a forum for discussion. Amacneil asked a question in a polite way. Don't become a bully yourself.   alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 69.201.141.241 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 12:36 am:        Grenvile88, what actions are you talking about?   hoperules Member Username: hoperules Post Number: 59 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 99.232.253.184 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 2:09 am:        GCC is dead. Done deal Don't see much anything else coming out of that pop stand. Cheers to that! P.S. Cind-e-freakin-ella - should you find your glass slipper I'm sure the rainbow will shine up your ••• and then some!   kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 4:25 pm:        This is a thread about sex so I'll share...I really wish I had been able to change my screen name though. As I have written, I was not there long - only one semester in the late 70's. Here's something that might make you smile... I had a boyfriend when I went away to GCC. We wrote a lot while I was there and even managed to sneak in one phone call(but that's for another thread). When it came time for spring break, I got the big light session about the evils of sex. They demanded that I break up with him when I went home. Well, home I went and promptly lost my virginity instead. We acted like a pair of rabbits. It was great. To think that GCC actually motivated me to have sex is actually pretty funny, I think. Now, don't get me wrong, I was having sex for all the right reasons (we were together for quite a few years). I wasn't sleeping with him to defy GCC, I was emancipating myself from their warped sense of human sexuality. It was very empowering to go back to school as a "fallen woman". It just underscored to me that they weren't omniscient. They didn't know and of course, I didn't tell them...but it did give me some backbone to continue to to stand my ground as best I could. Just me and my dirty little secret. There are a few of you that are still struggling with the conflicts that arose from their teachings that infect you to this day. I hope you find the courage to get what ever help you need in this area. Sex can be a really great thing if you LET it be.   susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 9:49 am:        Good Post, Kate! Funny they should demonize sexuality when they talked about it so much: "pulling on guys" etc. You couldn't sit in a math class without being charged with some sexual offence.   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 7:20 pm:        Hey um, Arron? When God "made" Adam and Eve (supposedly) weren't they naked? It was only after satan showed them sin, that they hid themselves, God made them innocent and naked. Our bodies, were never meant to be shameful..for that matter, in Europe, many centuries older than our society, people sunbath topless, for two months there, i couldn't get used to the freedom they had in this, but afterwards, when i did, i saw how uptight north america was, and how much "shame" there is still in n.amer's ways. (not everyone, just overall compared to europe.)Anyway, you sound just like "them", so maybe you should give yourself some time away to recover....i hate even hearing that nonsense   kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.13.88.86 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 2:55 pm:        Susan_Margaret; I remember that they were very conflicted times for all of society when it came to the changing roles of women and the new views on sex. For those of you too young to remember; women's lib was not universally embraced, divorce was still not socially acceptable, most wives were still homemakers, and our mothers lost their virginity on their wedding night (or so they would tell us). It was practically the dark ages...Then years of social upheaval as women's roles were gradually re-defined... I have read some posts with great concern, and I wonder how many former female (or male, for that matter) GCC students had abusive relationships in the ensuing years. It seems to me, that GCC helped lay the ground work for a rotten future for so many...I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that our stats. are higher than the population's average. I always found it odd that they would rail so strongly about sexuality in the broadest sense (insert biblical reference here)...yet literally deny that we were in any way sexual creatures. I've got tons to say on this subject - but I've got to run.   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 6:03 pm:        kate-skinner my first marriage was extremely abusive, so much so we broke up when my daughter was 10 mos. old. funny thing is, the abuse that i received, was panned out the same way as ff. (except on other areas of my body not my butt) I would definately say there is a connection. I was really internally angry, (in hindsight) and i know i lashed out emotionally and made things very difficult.   susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 11:57 am:        Hi Kate, I can't say that I encountered a lot of abuse in relationships. Had a few duds... My mother would never have put up with crap like that and thankfully my family upbringing kicked in if ever there was a hint of that. I was a day student so I didn't get the same twisted lectures that you all had to endure. I caught the odd whiff now & then, attended only one session with Mary Haig in the girls' dorm. Something about panties... Once in a while I have to take the back seat to my husband in order to get things done. I always suggest to him that he send Grenville a thank-you note for sending him such a supremely dutiful wife. This post may not be that helpful. I did take great exception to their approach to sex. I said on another post this morning that the criticisms of some of the people I liked is getting to me. I'll post again & we can hash it out a bit better when I can word it right. I was telling my mother that I feel exactly the same way now as I felt then. I'm from a strong female line of working women. This was a bigger influence on me than popular culture or Grenville.   kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 1:23 pm:        Susan_Margaret: I, too, came from a long line of strong independant women - thank God!!! Fortunately I wasn't there long enough for them to indoctrinate me... I do think that they did manage to condition me to a certain extent. I once stayed in a relationship much longer than I should have, but that's my fault. I could have left and didn't. He wasn't hitting me or anything like that, but he would play the mind games. He would get emotionally withdrawn, withhold sex and other physical affection in order to get what he wanted or to "pull me into line". He made it a power thing and for a time I submitted - that'll never happen again... On a broader note, I sometimes have trouble standing up to authority even when they're totally wrong. I will sometimes do the "ostrich thing" - head in the sand hope they go away... because I know that if I fight them they'll only come after you even harder. I have found that I can be a very strong advocate for others but am not so good at defending myself. I'll take so much crap then I'll draw a line in the sand and fight back. I just need to learn to draw that line a little earlier. Talk to you soon. Kate   kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 1:27 pm:        Heatherbell : Care to talk on line or would you prefer e-mail/telephone for privacy? <c_k_skinner@yahoo.ca> Kate   susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 1:45 pm:        Hi Kate, I get that way too, standing up for others before I do for myself. Or at least, I would like to think I do. I still get that cold fear of public humiliation. Even though my one & only light session was fairly mild compared to some. I might e-mail you too, if its ok. I don't want to share everything on factnet.   kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 3:13 pm:        Susan_Margaret, Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you soon.   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 11:18 pm:        Hello Kate, I'll email you, right now I have to get my daughter off to bed,ciao for now..   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 1:47 am:        Grenvillan88- wasn't that just the perfect answer for them?? They didn't have to pay for caretakers, they had us to do it all for them!! How nice!! Saturday friggin' morning work jobs, FORGET saturday morning cartoons baby!!! Get scrubbing those black marks off the boys stairs or the girls. 4 or 5 stories wasn't it? Step by friggin' step. And how much was it to go there???? FFFFF!!! They had a LOT of gaul!! There motto should have been "Use and Abuse."   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 1:50 am:        they certainly did both very well. I hope they rot in hell.   andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 9:38 am:        "Rot in hell"???? Pretty strong and disturbing comment, Heatherbell.   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:04 pm:        Just venting, i dont' think i'd want that really...it makes me fume when i think about it and hurt remembering the pretty strong and disturbing abuse and psychological damage as well "andtototoo." I have't written the things that I went through. I do want them to have to answer for the things they did though. Haven't you ever said anything like that when you were angry or frustrated? Geez.   heatherbell New member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:17 pm:        "rot in hell" is an expression that isn't meant to be taken literally toto. Like "go fly a kite." or "go to hell" Do you think the people saying it actually expect you to do it? Or mean for you too? I think someone's getting a little touchy....I certainly think I have the right to vent. Sorry if it disturbing to you. Usually when people say expressions like that, they are not literal and you take them with a grain of salt because you know the person is upset. I will try to curb the expressions for your sake though Toto. Peace...it is not my wish to upset anyone else.   andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:30 pm:        Heatherbell -- I understand the need to vent. I would hope you wouldn't really want anyone to 'rot in hell'. I believe Karma will take care of wrong doing on both sides of this situation.   heatherbell Junior Member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:44 pm:        Let's hope so. No, I think rotting in hell would be a bit harsh lol, and there is room in my heart to forgive, it just takes time. Its also hard to forgive, when you just can't understand why they did it?   heatherbell Junior Member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:50 pm:        Let's hope so. No, I think rotting in hell would be a bit harsh lol, and there is room in my heart to forgive, it just takes time. Its also hard to forgive, when you just can't understand why they did it?   andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:52 pm:        Heatherbell: I found Bluesman's explanation for why some things happened the way they did on the Cults/Brainwashing thread really helpful. Also, the Globe and Mail article on Saturday puts all the pieces together. I, too, believe time is the great healer.   heatherbell Junior Member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:54 pm:        Let's hope so. No, I think rotting in hell would be a bit harsh lol, and there is room in my heart to forgive, it just takes time. Its also hard to forgive, when you just can't understand why they did it?   heatherbell Junior Member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 2:57 pm:        oh sorry...my computer's being stupid..thanks a lot for the tips   heatherbell Junior Member Username: heatherbell Post Number: 32 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.64.223.204 Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 3:01 pm:        I know how the school came to be what it was, what i don't get, is the minds and feelings of the certain people who abused me. I couldn't do it to someone, how could they? They, who preached about consciences.sp?.oh brother...sorry about the spelling, it think i need a nap!

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