| Author | Message | ||
     kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.199.47 |
get a life people..........ya all are making such a big deal over one person. don't u have a life in Christ??? sooooooooooooooooo, are any of u without sin?? are any of u perfect??????? are we not to be like Jesus????didn't Jesus write in the sand as the pharisees and people were going to stone the adulterous women??? I really wonder what he wrote but I do know this THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT SIN MAY CASTE THE FIRST STONE.. lots of stones in fn... huh????lots of wierd women and men who think they can throw bolders...... get a life in Christ. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3362 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
Thank you Carmen apologist. So Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Robert Tilton.... were perfect little angels. According to you we should just let the body of Christ die of infection. Turn a blind eye to all wrongdoings of ministers and cults. Go back to sleep sheep. Thank you for your great advise. NOT!  | ||
| kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.196.79 |
MUST BE GREAT BEING PERFECT HUH???? THROW UR STONE HUNI, AND PUT THE BOLDER AROUND UR OWN NECK! THANK U GOD......NOT!!!!!!! | ||
| kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.196.79 |
ARE U GOD FRANKLIN??? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2485 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
when some one does wrong and then repents, he/she should be left alone and see if they have really repented or not. then if they havent repented leave them alone as they have continued to sin before GOD. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3365 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
Of course I am not. And neither are you manworshipper. I am not perfect and neither are you idolator. And neither is any self proclaimed Christian minister. They all have feet of clay. If they receive tithe offerings from the body of Christ then they fall under the rights of the body to supervise their activities. These are not anointed. If they are only God knows that they are. Not you. Only God knows our hearts. We can only discern the worth of their ministries by their fruits. And if a Christian smells rotten fruit or detects infection in the body of Christ, you are commanding us to look the other way? Sorry. But you are not God. There will be a healing within the body of Christ whether you want to be apart of it or not. You are the stone thrower here you manworshipping idolator. These are just mere humans you are worshipping. They are full of faults like everyone else. When they fail in their responsibilities then they will be reprimanded by the body of Christ. If they can't stand the heat then they should leave the pulpit. Worship no gods other than the one true God. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 365 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.236.22.128 |
Another 4th of July picnic where Carman is the main course..... Franklin, if you fed on Jesus Christ, then perhaps your eyes would be opened, but instead you are the one who is deceived. You have denied the Word of God in your teaching. It is you whose eyes are focused on "man" and it will always be easy to find fault with them and that is no doubt why you are used by Satan to keep others looking at "man" and not "The Son of Man". Since today is the 4th of July, it is fitting to offer the Bread of Life to this picnic.... Luke 22:19 "And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.'" Let's remember Jesus Christ today and keep our eyes on Him. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 366 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.236.22.128 |
Franklin, in 1962, our freedom of religion was violated in our schools by one woman. Now the generation of that period is all grown up now and they are in leadership positions. This is why our nation is divided. We have those who remember God and demand our freedom be restored. They are resisting those who want to even further violate our freedom of religion. In the previous generation we have been silenced by that rebellious generation of leadership. But, we have Christian leadership who has received an anointing of the Holy Spirit to stir up the people of God in America to fight to keep our nation under the protection of God. This side fights one continuous battle after another against those who are against God and Jesus Christ and those who are pushing to get every sign of Christ removed from America. You are aiding those who are against Christians. You help them to spread hatred toward Christians. Jesus warned "Woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." Heed carefully what you are doing. I recently read an article about a very prominent pastor who believes that Christians should stop being so concerned with abortion and sexual immorality and focus on "more important issues" in America. This "pastor" agrees with you in that he does not like these ministries. One of his reasons was because he believed they were too powerful. This pastor/teacher sales books and gets paid for his speaking engagements at colleges and so forth--- yet, no one is hounding him to see how he spends his money. This man also found fault with the ministries you abhor, saying they teach Christians to believe America's leadership must be based on biblical principles to run our nation. Imagine a pastor who believes that we can be a blessed nation outside of pleasing God? (Here's a hint-- this is a "false" teacher.) I looked to see if this man's name was listed on factnet--- and it wasn't. The name of Jesus Christ was--- so was the Bible and so was God.... but not this man's. Why do you think that was? Can you even conceive that maybe you are on the wrong side? Why don't I put his name up? Because, I know that God will deal with this man. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3371 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
hf&l: "It is you whose eyes are focused on "man" and it will always be easy to find fault with them and that is no doubt why you are used by Satan to keep others looking at "man" and not "The Son of Man"." Wrong. I am telling you man worshippers to get your adoring eyes off of and receiving your sustenance from man and worship, adore and get your spiritual sustenance from God directly. By the way that is as close as you've ever come to admitting that Carmen and these other supposed "anointed" religious figure heads are human. I've asked you before but you refused to acknowledge that Carmen is less than God. How do you know who is "anointed" and who is not? Only God knows. Who you might think might be is just your opinion. In your case, your opinion is probably clouded by sexual lust for carmen. So what gives you the idea or right to accuse me of being used by satan? That's bogus. That's comical. By reminding you idolators that those you set up on pedestals are just mere human beings with faults I am trying to get you to focus your spiritual senses on God and His Son instead. Sounds like an endeavor that satan would be diametrically opposed to. The only way to stop the attacks on the body of Christ is to keep our own house in order. Keep cleansing the temple. Not sweeping all ungodliness under the carpet like you are doing. Maybe you need a pope but nope I don't. Again, get your adoring eyes of man and focus them on where they belong. God. I voted for Bush and usually vote Republican so that is all I can do there. I try to defend Christianity here on factnet and elsewhere. So I don't see where you get off telling me I am being used by satan. Your motive in doing that is because I question the ungodly practices of your precious carmen. If you don't start doing your part in continually cleansing the temple then it will only keep getting worse for the gospel of Christ to be spread. Now that is what satan wants. It is people like you that make mind control cults possible. That is what satan wants. In order for Christianity to be defeated from the outside it has to collapse from within the inside. And that will be accomplished by manworshipping and false prophets if we are not careful. So I ask you, are you part of the problem or part of the solution? I believe I am trying to be part of the solution. Only God knows the truth.  | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 367 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.236.22.128 |
franklin, What you are doing is not cleansing. You do not provide anything cleansing or nurishing. You go forth willy-nilly accusing people of being idolators and manworshippers. You cannot concede even for a moment that you are not a reflection of Jesus Christ worthy for others to imitate. Now you will demand from me, "Is Carman?" I can at least find something about Carman that reminds me of Christ, but in you, I have found nothing. So what good does it do you to defend "Christianity" when you are such a poor example. I find no examples of forgiveness, compassion, kindness, gentleness in you... Regardless of what some accuse Carman, I have witnessed him being forgiving where his accusers have not. I have witnessed him being compassionate, kind and gentle where they have failed. Is Carman without fault? The thing about fault finders, surely you know since you deal with atheist is that they have found fault with God, with the Word of God, with the teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus told us that as they treated Him, so would we be treated. And being mere men it's much easier for them to find fault with us. We are all sinners, but as Christians we strive to learn to become like Christ by the transforming of our minds and hearts. The more God transforms my heart and mind, the more resistance I build up against those like you. I am no longer "tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming." I can recognize those Christian leaders who "speak the truth in love," and who together with them I am growing up and "into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work." When did you ever pray sincerely, with a burning hope that no minister would grow weak and stumble beneath the burden of making the Will of God known to all? I have, because I appreciate the work they do. As I've come to understand the word of God more, the more I appreciate the work they do for God. If one of these stumble, I grieve for them, but I grieve even more over the behavior of those who are always waiting to bring charges and claim they are "cleansing the temple". Why do I defend those that others accuse? Because my love for God has grown deeper and deeper. What you do takes no boldness. It is cowardly. You don't have any responsibilities in what you do. You judge. But, when God judges, He tests us much in the way Solomon did to see who was the true mother. You have lifted yourself up to "teach" and you say it is really you who is defending "Christianity" and not me, who've you labeled an "idolator and manworshipper'. And not Carman or these other ministries who receive "tithes". So God is testing all of us-- the teachers, the prophets, the pastors, the evangelists, and the apostles and the sheep. And it is this testing, Franklin, that even now the Holy Spirit is purging the Church of all ungodliness and making her ready for Christ. You love to argue and there is little else in your heart. You are for now unteachable and stubborn. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3372 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
 Yes, I am stubborn but not unteachable. As for the prophets and apostles you mentioned there are none. The last were at the time of Christ. Why would humans need them when we have the Holy Spirit? The only so called prophets and apostles are self proclaimed and mind control cult leaders. So there are fewer idols than you think that you have to bow and scrape your knees worshipping. Just remember to keep your eyes on God, not man. Let no human stand between you and God except only Jesus Christ. Answer me this. How did Adam and Eve survive without a Prophet to tell them what God says? | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 115 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 124.176.178.225 |
Good words and well said FHL,Franklin the bible says stubborness is as idolatry. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2491 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
i believe there are prophets today, sure they are few and far between, i dint believe on should just call them selves a prophet it should be known to the christians amd let them see that this is a prophet of THE LORD. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 368 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
Franklin, Your type of "reasoning" I typically see with nonbelievers who are trying to discredit the Bible or with Christians who do not know the Bible well and who rely on their opinions to guide them. In both cases these people love to argue and in their opinionated state they could never conceive they are ever wrong about anything, because they believe so strongly in "themselves". Which, leads them to set themselve up above God. Many Christians have inadvertantly done this, when they do discover the truth they repent and learn a lesson in humility they did not previously possess and what it means about not leaning into their own understanding. They are greatful to have their eyes opened to Truth, because previously they were blind. Ephesians 4:11-13 reveals that Jesus Christ "gave some to be apostles and prophets" just as He gave some to be evangelists, preachers and teachers. It explains why also. If you are teachable then perhaps you can acknowledge this now. As far as prophets being "few and far between", this reasoning is also questionable in light of the number of evangelists, pastors and teachers we have. My advice to both franklin and arron is if you judge any minister, whether they are a pastor, teacher, apostle, prophet or evangelist as offering something beneficial to you to grow in Jesus Christ then receive it with gratitude, but stop arguing, less you find out you are coming against those God has sent to His people to prepare them "for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowldedge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." I do not think either of you would intentionally want to go against God. This is just to caution you, not to threaten you. As I stated above, many Christians have done this, only to find out later as they grew in the knowledge of the Bible that they had been wrong. I only want to impart wisdom by cautioning you against arguing. If you do not see the soundness of it, perhaps someone else will. Franklin, unless Jesus Christ has "gave" you i.e. equiped you to teach then you have taken it upon yourself. The same goes with your method of "cleansing the temple" and calling women idolators and manworshippers because you "reasoned" there is no apostles or prophets. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3383 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
There is a lot you need to be shown. And your questioning my faith comes from your lack of knowledge about me. My background and reason for being on factnet is because 2 of my family members were sucked up into a real mind control cult led by a "Prophetess". Did you EVER stop and wonder why it is that all, ALL, cults are led by a prophet, prophetess or apostle? Did you ever? See the connection here? You might not consider it a cult but it is rated as one of the top 5 worst cults in America. You seem to be good about not answering my questions I put to you. Here's another. What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3384 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
It has recently become popular to speak of "the five-fold ministry," a system of church government with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The neo-Pentecostal "Restoration" movement and its offshoot, "kingdom now" teaching, claims that one of the things which God is "restoring" to the church is this five-fold ministry. The sole prooftext used to support this concept is Ephesians 4:11-13 , which states that Christ gave "some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,...until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the full knowledge of the Son of God." The word "until," it is argued, proves that the church today needs apostles and prophets as much as evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, it is the "building up" of the church (v.12) which must continue until the church is mature, not all five of the offices listed in verse 11. This is clear when the whole text is read as follows: "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers; [these offices were given] to equip the saints for the work of service, [which work has as its goal] to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith..." The offices of apostle and prophet would naturally cease in the church once their role in "equipping the saints" was completed; that is, once the New Testament canon was completed. Some have objected that there is no reason to bracket off the apostles and prophets from the other three offices listed in verse 11. However, in the very same epistle, Paul states that the church has "been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" (Eph. 2:20 ) and that Christ's mystery concerning the church was "revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" (3:5 ). These statements indicate that the role of apostles and prophets was fulfilled in the first century. The New Testament is particularly clear about the temporary role of the apostles, since they were chosen to give eyewitness testimony of the risen Christ (Acts 1:21-26 ; 5:32 ; Luke 1:1-4 ; 1 Cor. 9:1 ). Paul indicated that he was the last person to see the risen Christ and receive an apostolic commission (1 Cor. 15:8 ). The epistles of 2 Peter and Jude, among the very last New Testament writings to be penned, exhort the readers to avoid false doctrines by recalling the teachings of the apostles (2 Pet. 1:12-15 ; 2:1 ; 3:2 , 14-16 ; Jude 3-4 , 17 ). Peter and Jude did not say, "Listen to the apostles living today," but instead urged believers to "remember what the apostles said." I am not arguing that only the Twelve and Paul were apostles. Barnabas (Acts 14:14 ), Silas (1 Thess. 2:6 ; cf. 1:1 ), and Andronicus and Junia (Rom. 16:7 ) all were apostles of Christ, and thus were no doubt among the more than 500 witnesses to the Resurrection (1 Cor. 15:6 ). However, none of these persons was chosen as a successor to an earlier apostle (Matthias was Judas's replacement, not his successor, since Judas had forsaken his apostleship, Acts 1:21-26 ). There are other senses in which the word "apostle" is used in the New Testament. Certain individuals, including Epaphroditus, were "apostles of the churches" (2 Cor. 8:23 ; Phil. 2:25 ). These "apostles" had no authority over the church; they were messengers sent by and subject to their churches. In this latter sense it would be perfectly legitimate to speak of church representatives as "apostles," were it not for the confusion which might result from such usage. (continued) | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3385 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
(continuation) Therefore, in the usual biblical sense of the term, there are no apostles today. Nor are there any prophets in the usual sense, as they were part of the "foundation" laid in the first-century church. This is not to deny the continuing validity of the gift of "prophecy," since Paul does refer to prophesying as a basic activity in which all Christians are urged to participate to the extent God gifts them (Rom. 12:6 ; 1 Cor. 11:4-5 ; 12:10 ; 13:2 , 8-9 ; 14:1-6 , 20-33 ; 1 Thess. 5:20 ), and in a general functional sense persons exercising this gift are even called "prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32 , 37 ). Yet Paul also speaks of specific persons who occupied an office of "prophet" which was second in authority only to apostle (1 Cor. 12:28-29 ). It is this office of "prophet," not all prophecy, which I am arguing passed away around the end of the first century. Finally, some errors on this matter are worse than others. The loose use of the world "apostle" to refer to missionaries or church planters is not a serious error as long as this usage is sharply distinguished from the concept of an apostle who brings new doctrinal revelations and wields unquestionable authority. Nor is it a grievous error to interpret Ephesians 4:11 to refer to "apostles" in this sense of a church planter. The same would apply to those who hold that Ephesians 4:11 refers to the ongoing charismatic activity of prophesying. I do believe these interpretations are mistaken, but they are not in any way antagonistic to Christian faith. On the other hand, to interpret Ephesians 4:11 as a call for a restoration of the office of apostle of Christ is not only a mistake in exegesis, it opens the door to heresy. To claim that the church today needs visions and revelations through modern apostles and prophets of Christ is to deny the sufficiency of the Bible (2 Tim. 3:16 ) and to place the church at the mercy of false apostles, the likes of whom the apostle Paul warned us about in no uncertain terms (2 Cor. 11:13-15 ). The teachers of the "five-fold ministry," in seeking to "restore" a foundation which has never been moved, are actually laying a false foundation which will not support the building up of the body of Christ. www.apologeticsindex.org | ||
| kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.199.238 |
ROFL..............REALLY FRANKLIN U MUST THINK U ARE GOD....DONCHA JUST LOVE BUFFET CHRISTIANS, THEY CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, DISREGARD SOME OF THE WORD AND THEN JUSTIFY THEIR BELIEFS.  | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 369 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
franklin, I said nothing of five fold ministry. I was using scripture. To be honest, I have only heard that term used several times but never really knew what it was about. So you're accusing me falsely. The Holy Spirit alone has been instructing me and preparing me and the Bible fully supports what the Holy Spirit has done. If you want to deny scripture and now deny the Holy Spirit's power manifested in my life and countless other's, then how on earth are you to convince anyone using the Bible that it's the word of God? You've used the writing and teachings of others. My source has always been the Holy Spirit.... the Holy Spirit who you say we only need. The difference between you and I is that the Holy Spirit has "gave to me" i.e. prepared me for what I say and believe. I assure you I have tested and tested everything I am told and it is supported fully by the Bible. Everything the Holy Spirit has instructed me in has been in regards to the fulfillment of verses 12-16 for believers in Jesus Christ. If you want to deny this it is your "choice". You came here to start a destructive argument, that is not the Holy Spirit, but that is the characteristic of a crafty man in their deceitful scheming. What you have displayed above is what I've had to endure for most of my life in Christian churches because so many spent so much time trying to convince me that the Holy Spirit did not work in our lives. What you are doing is the same thing they did. And as I told you before, that as the Holy Spirit leads me and I grow in the knowledge and understanding of God and His word I am no longer "tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming." That describes your teaching and the men whose purpose is to deny this powerful scripture and teach others to deny it! They want to stop this promise from happening. Can they? No. But, they can sure lead a lot of people astray. For me, I am now able to discern those who are speaking the truth in love." The truth in love is the voice of the Holy Spirit. You and those whose sole ministry objective is to preach against what you call "the five fold ministries" do so in the spirit of hate and ignorance. Those who follow after this spirit have always denied the Holy Spirit's power and the Word of God. But Jesus Christ is working through apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers so that "we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does tis work." This is what the Holy Spirit has been speaking to me personally about. So I know it is true. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3386 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.181.36 |
You are making a whole lot of wrong assumptions about me. But you are forgiven. My whole point is with the Holy Spirit working in us and guiding us in interpreting God's word to us each individually, why do we need another person's interpretation? Discussion fine. Interpretation no. Men can deceive us but the Holy Spirit and God's word will not. | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.227.156 |
Thoughts on Jesus' Demand to Repent By John Piper As part of my sabbatical here in Cambridge, England, I am working on a book with the tentative title What Jesus Demands From the World. The demand to repent is as basic as it gets in Jesus' message. It is equally basic to, and almost synonymous with, the command, "You must be born again" (John 3:7). One of my concerns is to show that repentance in Jesus' message is not behavior but the inner change that gives rise to new God-centered, Christ-exalting behavior. Here are some thoughts to help make the meaning of repentance more plain. From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17) I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32) The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. (Matthew 12:41) "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3, 5) The first demand of Jesus' public ministry was, "Repent." He spoke this command indiscriminately to all who would listen. It was a call for radical inward change toward God and man. Two things show us that repentance is an internal change of mind and heart rather than mere sorrow for sin or mere improvement of behavior. First, the meaning of the Greek word behind the English "repent" (metanoeo) points in this direction. It has two parts: meta and noeo. The first part (meta) is a prefix that regularly means movement or change. The second part (noeo) refers to the mind and its thoughts and perceptions and dispositions and purposes. So the basic meaning of repent is to experience a change of the mind's perceptions and dispositions and purposes. The other factor that points to this meaning of repent is the way Luke 3:8 describes the relationship between repentance and new behavior. It says, "Bear fruits in keeping with repentance." Then it gives examples of the fruits: "Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise..." (Luke 3:11). This means that repenting is what happens inside of us and that leads to the fruits of new behavior. Repentance is not the new deeds, but the inward change that bears the fruit of new deeds. Jesus is demanding that we experience this inward change. Why? His answer is that we are sinners. "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance..." (Luke 5:32). What was Jesus' view of sin? In the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus describes the son's sin like this: "He squandered his property in reckless living [and] devoured [it] with prostitutes..." (Luke 15:13, 30). But the prodigal repents and he says, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before You." That's the essential nature of sin. It's an assault on God. | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.227.156 |
Continuing article. We see this again in the way Jesus taught his disciples to pray. He said that they should pray, "Forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us" (Luke 11:4). In other words, sins that God forgives are compared to the ones people commit against us, and those are called debts. Therefore, Jesus' view of sin was that it dishonored God and put us in debt to restore the divine honor we had defamed by our God-belittling behavior or attitudes. That debt is paid by Jesus himself. "The Son of man came . . . to give his life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). But for us to enjoy that gift he says we must repent. Repenting means experiencing a change of mind that now sees God as true and beautiful and worthy of all our praise and all our obedience. This change of mind also embraces Jesus in the same way. We know this because Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God." Seeing God with a new mind includes seeing Jesus with a new mind. No one is excluded from Jesus' demand to repent. He made this clear when a group of people came to him with news of two calamities. Innocent people had been killed by Pilate's massacre and by the fall of the tower of Siloam (Luke 13:1-4). Jesus took the occasion to warn even the bearers of the news: "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:5). In other words, don't think calamities mean that some people are sinners in need of repentance and others aren't. All need repentance. Just as all need to be born anew because "that which is born of the flesh is [merely] flesh" (John 3:6), so all must repent because all are sinners. When Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32), he did not mean that some persons are good enough not to need repentance. He meant some think they are (Luke 18:9), and others have already repented and have been set right with God. For example, the rich young ruler desired "to justify himself" (Luke 10:29) while "the tax collector . . . beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' [and] went down to his house justified [by God!]" (Luke 18:13-14). Therefore, none is excluded. All need repentance. And the need is urgent. Jesus, the Son of God, is warning people of the judgment to come, and offering escape if we will repent. If we will not repent, Jesus has one word for us, "Woe, to you" (Matthew 11:21). This is why his demand for repentance is part of his central message that the Kingdom of God is at hand. "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15). The Gospel-the good news-is that the rule of God has arrived in Jesus, to save sinners before it arrives at his second coming in judgment. So the demand to repent is based on the gracious offer that is present to forgive, and on the gracious warning that someday those who refuse the offer will perish in God's judgment. After he had risen from the dead Jesus made sure that his apostles would continue the call... for repentance throughout the World. He said, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." (Luke 24:46-47). | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.227.156 |
End of article: So the demand of Jesus to repent goes to all the nations. It comes to us, whoever we are and wherever we are, and lays claim on us. This is the demand of Jesus to every soul: Repent. Be changed deep within. Replace all God-dishonoring, Christ-belittling perceptions and dispositions and purposes with God-treasuring, Christ-exalting ones. For Christ and his kingdom, John Piper Notation: For example meta is used as a prefix in the word metabaino (transfer or change from one place to another), metaballo (change one's way of thinking), metago (lead or move from one place to another), metatithemi(convey from one place to another, put in another place, transfer), metamorphoo (change in a manner visible to others, be transfigured), metastrepho (cause a change in state or condition, change, alter), metaschematizo (change the form of something, transform, change), etc. Addendum: Carman is not the Son of Man. Taking/usage of the precepts and name of God vainly, is God belittling and God dishonoring. The Greatest Commandment is to treasure- to love-others, all others. Also to exalt God by seeing others as He does in humility and prayerfulness. Those who refuse to change, hear others humbly who point out their sin or as "they" staunchly repudiate or decline to see their need to, are in fact, in serious sin, no matter how they justify, blame shift or go on the offensive. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 370 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
The issue was about taking our eyes off of man {carman} and putting them on the Son of Man. Obviously, frizz bee you need help doing that. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 371 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
frizz bee, Since I have your undivided attention and just to clear up any confusion you cause because you do sound like other posters-- if you are not charles, then what other username/s have you used? You want to "correct" Grace2u, but she has been truthful whereas many who have come here to correct/judge carman have not. She has been far more truthful than you have been. So, I really think you should let her know who it is posting to her and who it is wanting to correct her about being sincere when you've never questioned the sincerity of posters like uncharmed, ems, usedtobe, notafan, trustnobey,outoftheheart, moralnpure, lovefaithhope, ekklesia, inspiration, hannah, berthareally/peaceadvocate/holybeauty or even charles. Why is that? So which user names are yours? I'm not asking for your personal name, just any usernames you've posted under. I have this theory that there is a small group, perhaps a husband and wife, two sisters, (maybe all four of these are part of the same family), two or maybe three women who have individual "ministries". This group, over the years may never have met in person or even risked exchanging their real names with other members in this group-- because no one is to be trusted among this band of comrades-in-arms whose sole purpose is to come steal, kill and rob from Carman. This group shares a common link that binds them all together and that is their insatiable need for any information about Carman's personal and private life. These people are the ones who contact anyone who has ever even remotely worked for Carman or met Carman. They are drawn to any person who who has any information or disparaging opinion about Carman. If anyone should support Carman they will wage a verbal attack on that person. They fear that if this person is supportive in any way that it could help Carman to resist their efforts to control his life. This group is a psychological nightmare. They are the "go-to-people" for help and support for anyone who wants to hurt Carman. | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.12 |
To Anonynmous Poster from Irvine CA, If you spoke those words about yourself then "you" might be going somewhere. "Getting attention" and "insatiablility" being struck out from you is a certain multifarious and punctiliously drive, and your latency for appearing here. You feel you can lop off an ear of someone and call yourself Peter to Carman. To preport that Grace has been truthful in comparison to the other posters who seem to have demanded and shared truths in varying degrees of motive, is farcical. Truthfulness and the lack of it, is what many of the posters you named were seeking and expressing. She was dishonest about herself, dishonest about the Lord, is giving out false dreams about herself with gross misinterpretations, and she was dishonest about Carman with others tricking them, also with her husband and is dishonest about Carman himself, in many degrees. What if Caman's words or actions have stolen, or robbed or killed anyone in "any" way? You or others may think that is a silly question, but please be informed, the Lord gave me the inspiration to ask it, in that way. If he did slander someone or accuse causing losses to reputation or quality of life, and caused anyone to be accused broadly then he did something reckless, life changing in the negative sense and robbed courage and killed some season of potential etc. You do it nearly every time you write. And those who have sought to defend Carman seem to do the same thing. You try to rob others of their reality and character while you are low on both. Do you have the right to "judge" others, but deny them the "right" to judge Carman's actions and words or yours or Grace? Jesus does not like hypocrisy, he condems it vigorously the way you do others inappropriately, and you without the genuine position or the integrity to do so. When God looks down from Heaven, does He speak and think the things you are saying about the same people you are opprobriously lashing out at in diatribes' and revilements? You have a selfish and defiant fantasy of aggrandizement in real violence, who ever you really are HFL and are most likely ill in your delusion that you are "here" by God to defend Carman. Is Carman doing anything wrong with any of these communications? Wrong before the Lord? Or is that an impossibility? Would he want the ear to be placed back on and heal it or would he fall apart, rage and lie about himself and seek to hurt someone and use the reasons that they are hurting him, real or imagined? Would he do what the posters you are naming would say he would do and "sic an investigator on them" and then act like a sweet and very vulnerable man who only needs protecting? He might need real protection, and he might hurt "those he should not" in the name of that very ideal. Is he centered on Christ and Christianity in real time real life or himself and celebrity ship and maintenance of an "image" that he is not unkind or violent or compromised in any way himself? The topic of "truthfulness" is relevant all the way around in this praecognita. If God is not using FactNet, why are you present, according to your own standardizations? Carman should be humbled, responsive and loving in every respect and hopefully; you are the farthest most remote, reflection of his heart or disposition privately. You and Carman should not be associated with each other, and you have an ersatz and adulterated rostrum defining "truthfulness". I addressed your other questions on 'For the Record'. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 374 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
frizz bee, Since you've decided to continue your diatribes to me and you yourself said, "The topic of "truthfulness" is relevant all the way around in this praecognita." (For those who don't know what the word praecognita means it simply means "what should be known in order to understand something else.) It was for this reason I asked you which other usernames have you posted under. Because this is critical in revealing who is truly the ersatz, i.e. the impostors! Grace posted her dream a week or so ago. In it she talked about there being a pole and that two groups of people were compelled to rush toward each other and crash into each other, destroying themselves and the pole. I did not know what it meant, but God had me to look up the word "pole" and it meant "Either of two antithetical ideas, propensities, forces, or positions." God said the pole represents the two "antithetical" views represented by those Christians who constantly attack ministries and cause division and the other extreme of those in the world who hates Jesus Christ and oppose Him; God said it also serves as a warning to the two "antithetical" views of Christians represented by you, frizz bee, and franklin. Either way, God is going to cause the destruction of those who persist in these detrimental views. Grace's dream reveals she has been called to be a witness and even an example to others in her willingness to change. In her dream, Grace was busy working with others who she said was above her. They left, this could mean they were called home. The sea as she described it was "hell" opening up to receive those destroyed. This is what God spoke to me. (Message edited by hope_faith_and_love on July 13, 2006) | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3501 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
hfl, If that is a pseudo prophecy of my demise then I refute it fervently in the name of Jesus Christ! If that is a curse you are putting on me then that is witchcraft and I refute that also in the name of Jesus Christ! Just because YOU think God "told" you something does not make it so. Next time you think God "tells" you something just keep it to yourself. There is no way for anyone to verify what you say is true. You do not have any more of a direct connection to God than any other Christian. What you've just done shows to me that you have less so. Your efforts to pretend you are a Prophet are just sickening! This is a good example of why I don't believe there are any prophets today or since the time of Christ. This is just another example of abuse and perversion of scripture. It is not the gift of prophecy that you have. It is the sin of partaking in witchcraft and the occult that you are guilty of. For you to post something like that is horrible and says a lot about you and your mental state. I did not write what was written by frizbee above. And yet you choose to include me in your witchcraft curse. I forbid you to use my name in a post ever again. I will not be prophecised against or have a witchcraft curse put on me. That is unGodly, unChristian like. It is definitely satanic and cultic. What provokes you to delve into the occult I assume is anger and hatred because someone discerns that all is not spiritually well within Carmen Ministries and chooses to point it out so that a healing can take place. It is really not CM that I am that concerned about. It is his camp followers and sycophants like you that really concerns me. There is a spiritual sickness there and you revealed it once again. Your threats, curses and hexes are meaningless. I refute your curses and hexes against me in the name of the one and only Son of God, Jesus Christ! | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.12 |
To any of the Christians here, be aware that not only is HFL a "self proclaimed" prophet and is a undeniably a false prophet, but she is giving false interpretations and a self intrepretation of a dream; that sounds as though it is authentic and genuinely spiritual but it is an extrapolation is truly, spiritually false. I exalt and am defensive of the Lord, both His ways and His Word, by disputing and repudiating her claim that God spoke "this" to her. She is also misapplying the emphasis and usage and the actual origin or defintion of the language applied to her. That is her perogative and it is her aggression, and her violent psychology. These are words of excellence and insight, words used in real life, not a power game of a person who is a phony. She takes them out of context to overule them in her violence. God did not give her the word "pole" to "define" my interest or participation or any others. It is her mind and her calumny. It simply is not true and demonstrates her connection to something demonic and her own aggressiveness. Again, she is using Grace as well as Carman, to give herself postulation and emotional/spiritual/public power over those who will listen or be taken in by her spiritualization and cunning in manipulating in artfully using Christianity. This "interpretation" is completely false and she is not hearing from God and has no conviction or reality in that valuation. She is demanding to be recognized as a messenger from God and deletes arrogantly, all premise for discussion that is more realistic and open. The reason I posted is because of the error and the deceit in her post and due to the vulnerability and openess or genuiness, of other posters. She is an ill person, an aggressor and the occult influence in her life and despotic soul is well disguised, self validated with scriptural ideas or wording and is criminally (in pathology) denied. An encouragement is to take the Word of God seriously about souls such as hers and her falseness and not be taken aside into some captivity by her design. Her idolatry and lack of being "under a sheperd" in this and her desire to exalt herself provides for the serious error. She has had problems with pastors in the past and denounces realistic involvement of any sheperd in her life here. Her pathology shows "copy cat" aggression and in how she adds to herself the perceived or real strengths of others. I may not be as informed on Jezebel teachings as some have expressed but she sounds and behaves like a Jezebel who in involved in Carman's life and ministry, at arms length for power, purpose and a false sense of prestige and power over others. Jezebel demands recognition, position and "kills" real prophets claiming to be something very legitimate when in fact she is a manipulation. | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.230.12 |
"For the idols speak delusion; The diviners envision lies, And tell false dreams; They comfort in vain. Therefore the people wend their way like sheep; They are in trouble because there is no shepherd. [Zechariah 10:2] "Son of man, speak against the false prophets of Israel who are inventing their own prophecies. Tell them to listen to the word of the LORD." [Eze 13:2] "Am I a God near at hand," says the Lord, "And not a God afar off? Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?" says the Lord; "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the Lord. "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart..." [Jeremiah 23] Both HFL and Grace are in error and have power aggressiveness, serious emotional and spiritual problems , and have attempted and demanded to lead others in the past and recently and are self righteous and self deceived. They are attracted to and reliant on each other, and it is based in that emotional and spiritual aggressiveness and with additional complications. May the Lord heal, fill with His Light and correct and in His grace, make the crooked places straight. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3503 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
The only "Shepherd" any Christian needs is Jesus Christ. Not a human being. A pastor, yes. A Prophet, an Apostle, a Shepherd..... NO! It is that false doctrine that leads to these kind of problems. Thinking that Christians need to submit to some human authority figure is hogwash. That's why we have cults. That's why we have false prophets, apostles and Shepherd! So no to man, yes to God. Jesus Christ is the only "Shepherd" humans need! | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 375 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.128.164.80 |
frizz bee, Grace only shared her dream here. She believed the dream meant that God was protecting her from the hurtful words on factnet. The interpretation I posted was what God told me. Grace knew nothing about it. So leave her alone. Your behavior is that of a mental predator toward her. You think she's vulnerable and so you are going after her. I don't consider myself a "shepherd" or grace a sheep, but right now the Holy Spirit is with me and He would like to wallop you with His rod. I do not doubt this is what David experienced and came to trust in that power of God to not only protect the sheep from lions and bears, but to stand his ground against the enemy of God. Your problem is with me. So, come after me. Grace has done nothing to you. Say what you want to me! God has been preparing me for this. He's been building my faith up for this so that I will not be afraid of you and that I will know He is with me as I obey Him. Because of this, I can fully trust in Jesus' words-- "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11-12. | ||
| kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.199.17 |
does anybody have the right to judge?? noooooooooo so shut up (no i am not george) you all donot give an account for carman and do you all really think he would come to this board for Godly correction...I DON'T THINK SOOOOOOOOO.... TIME TO GROW KIDDIES | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 539 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.153.71.230 |
Franklin, I simply think that you have framed HFL's posts based on your experience and as I told you privately, should not be concerned about curses because ultimately God is in control. Yes, we all can listen to the Father's of lies - he tries to deceive us all. But HFL may have gotten some or even many things right in the dream. I do not think you need to be concerned about witchcraft or even death. Consider the Baker's dream. It was a dream about his death. This is my dream so if it is about anyone's death it may be mine. I'm sure the Baker was not thrilled with the interpretation of the dream but God did allow such a dream and it may have been to prepare the baker for death. This was not necessarily a bad thing. Anyway, one can leave an auditorium and can go to other places and not die. As you know, something like an auditorium was moved shortly after this dream anyway. Maybe some how I picked up on this. I wish you would continue to share with HFL why you feel so concerned about prophets and your experiences with such. This might help her understand how you are framing the posts. I will say this - if God gives us information that may seem unpleasant for anyone in a dream - it should be used to help the individual and when we interpret it we should be mindful of this. Otherwise, we may shut the other person completely out and they will not even consider what we are saying. Some thoughts I had written about this. HFL - thanks for sharing your input on my dream. It is appreciated and helpful. | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 540 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.153.71.230 |
Dream: I dreamed I was in an auditorium that reminded me of a work environment. Those in my line of authority above me were asked to leave. I don't know where they went or why they left. Then I had to go hunting for something or someone (the dream is not extremely clear because it is a busy week and I have not had sufficient sleep this week). I went searching to the right of the building. I don't recall finding what I was searching for because I think I got distracted and ended up walking outside the building. Outside the building was a beach and a sea. The sea was really too close to the building for all practical purposes but suddenly the tide of the sea started going backwards. Instead of the sea flowing into the beach it began flowing back out into the sea. Shortly, after this two vehicles that had medium size trailers attached to them (I'm not good at describing vehicles) and looked like they carried weapons of some kind (I don't know why) came by from different directions but to the right again of the picture. There was also a pole or something. The vehicles seemed to speed up like something was taking charge of them and they ran into the pole at the same time (I don't think purposely). The vehicles and pole burst out in flames and the tide of the sea was still flowing out into the sea. And I just sat and watched this as a witness or something. HFL - I actually started at a similar place as far as interpretation but here are some other thoughts: I wonder if the auditorium represents my body. When I go outside – the water was sort of in a position to indicate that I had been in over my head but stepped out in faith into the middle and God pushed the water back and sent it in the opposite direction. I felt like I was in the middle but in actuality I was just at the edge because God pushed the waters back. Ultimately . . . I think the dream is about getting or speaking what is in my heart and letting it get outside of the temple to accomplish something out there – not false words, lies, or even things in my heart that doesn’t line up with the Word of God but His desires, dreams, etc. that He has placed in my heart. Calling it out of the invisible into existence? (This is from a sermon that I was listening to today.) Somehow I think the trucks and the pole are the ark and the cherubim. I can’t explain why except that God keeps bringing me back to this. At first I thought this had something to do with a family member but twice God has brought me to the cherubim and the ark of the covenant. I wonder if the pole is really a rod of iron. Also, look at Joshua 3. And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof. And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (Exodus 25:17-22) | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 541 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.153.71.230 |
Num 7:89 And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spoke unto him. 2Sa 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims. Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:28-29) 2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds;) That’s where I am with it now. Another alternate interpretation is that this involves some activities that Franklin and I have been involved with where he is "playing" an authoritative role and moved his auditorium. I went outside of the old auditorium and then when I looked back at the sea of satan's attacks and lies OUTSIDE of that sea - I see to (pole)r views that have more in common than they realize about each other but are framing things from different perspectives (particularly Franklin as he has had some unfortunate things happen to him which would make most people leary of prophets. He needs to remember that these events do not always translate to other events.) These opposing views crash and I am a witness. This has indeed occurred. But again . . . I'm not so sure a dream cannot actually display itself in just one way so another interpretation can be accurate. I think this is what the Bible talks about when it says the following: 1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. I would even say that Frizz would tell us that just because one prophet says one thing and another sees it a little differently that the dream or whatever is being looked at can be talked about among the prophets. I'm not saying that I am a prophet but it is my dream so it is important that I give my input out in regards to this. It is helpful for HFL or others to give me their input based on what the Holy Spirit is telling them to help me understand the dream. God maybe telling me something else (in the first interpretation above - that is not related to the dream but I am connecting it to the dream . . . I'm just trying to work through this.) | ||
| wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 430 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 |
Grace2U it's just a thought, but do to what is right now happening with God's people in Israel with the war. Have you ever thought that you dreamed God's people being attacked by Saton. Read your messge here again, and see what I'm saying it does make sense doesn't it? I went outside of the old auditorium and then when I looked back at the sea of satan's attacks and lies OUTSIDE of that sea - I see to (pole)r views that have more in common than they realize about each other but are framing things from different perspectives Grace2U you also talked about the trucks carrying weapons, and the differant lies from the enemy. To me it does make sense that you dreamed God's people being in a war to come, and that the sea is restless with anger from the serpant who is seeking to destroy Israel. The Israel soldiers were kidnapped, and now there two sides clashing against that pole. Maybe look at your dream again from a whole new direction, and it might be that God gave you a dream of what was going to happen before it even did. To me that is so awesome when God speaks to us, and again I'm not claiming to be a prophet, but it just came to me that God gave Grace2U a dream of his people who would be at war with it's enemies, and that they would clash against each other. "Meaning the pole that divides them from each other" Again it's just a thought so don't pounce on me, just consider it a word from God that he does show us things in regards to our future before they even happen. Blessings Wingsy | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 543 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.203.40 |
I don't know Wings - I think most people have dreams that relate to themselves. I can think of three times that I have posted a dream here that actually occurred after I posted them. I don't know why that happens but that's why I go ahead and post them at the time. HFL taught me to do this because it provides a record. All I know is that I love the fact that God does talk to us even if it is just personal prophecy or dreams. | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 544 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.203.40 |
Here is another dream that I had last night with a little bit of explanation - I feel that this is just a personal dream that I'm posting below: I dreamed that for a short while I was leaving in a little cottage type house in the mountains on some large property. The place was for sale and I'm thinking at a very reasonable rate. I think there was something like 48 acres for sale but there was more property that could be sold along with this 48 acres. For some reason, we needed a place to live even though we still had our house. Or maybe the place needed someone to stay in it. Ya know what I mean? Anyway, we stayed and then moved back into our own home. Then my old junior high school boyfriend, who is now an Episcopal Priest, moved into the house with his wife. Now here is the background - recently, I got in touch with him and apologized with him when I was making my rounds of apologizing and repenting back to Adam. I apologized because I broke up with him and must have did this in a way that really made him mad. From my perspective he had our lives planned out and I was only 12 and not ready for this. LOL! So I broke up. Wasn't ready for marriage at 12. Anyway, throughout high school I would seem to get these jabs from him like he was still mad at me and I wanted to be friends with him still - just not engaged. He responded to my email that it was not a big deal and not to worry about it we were just kids and we corresponded about what we are doing, etc. Now do I agree with the Episcopal Church [because I know some people might attack me about this because of this church's stance on things] No I don't. But this guy is not the Episcopal Church in himself and it is not time for the judgment yet.) So he and his wife move into this cottage but they get more than the 42 acres along with the house. A large piece of land . . . I cannot recall how many acres. So, some how I end up visiting he and his wife and we have a good visit but I don't realize how tired he is or even what he is doing completely. He is just so pleasant and they both are entertaining us even though they are very tired. We just don't see this though. He explains how they gave up everything to move where they are and she (his wife) says that one of them will have to find a job soon to help keep things going but they seem so happy and content. I'm sure there is more here but I didn't write it down when I woke up. But I do remember this: People just start appearing out of the wood work - old friends and people who appear to be at a church camp or retreat. I realize then that the property has been turned into a church camp or something and it is full. My old boyfriend and his wife must have been working hard all day with the camp and we caught them at the only time they had to rest (while others were busy doing something else) and they entertained us even though they really needed to rest. Then I saw many people from my graduating class and I kept asking about when my old boyfriend opened the camp, etc. Then a serpent type object came out of the pond and people got out of the serpent - the people did NOT seem to be part of the serpent. Perhaps this is a picture of compatibalism in my dream. Ya know satan meant it for evil but God allowed it for good. The serpent brought them to were they were but God turned it into something good and they got out of the serpent's voyage. Then it seems like I went home or something feeling really proud of my old boyfriend and what he was doing and feeling good about our friendship and that we had a Godly friendship. That was a pleasant dream. But ya know . . . the way dreams are . . . I'm probably the old boyfriend too. LOL! | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 377 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.238.211.147 |
grace, As you pointed out it was "your" dream. You thought it might have something to do with your friendship with franklin or something like this.... I understand you are trying to help franklin and I knew when God had me to post the interpretation that it would cause you alarm at the very serious tone. The night you posted it and God began to give me the meaning to the dream, the parts about you were "possitive" and edifying and I was going to email this to you privately because to be honest I was afraid to post anything here, knowing it would only cause more arguing and name calling... but then, when God told me what the pole meant and so forth I was alarmed and I didn't want to write to you. God rebuked me harshly and warned me that I must speak what He tells me to speak. The night before someone else had shared their dream with me and God had told me what it meant. The experience had been so encouraging and edifying that I shared it with other people... but this time I was balking and God wasn't pleased with me. He told me it is those who are parishing who only want to listen to interpretations of their dreams that are all blue skies and happy days ahead. God did not have me to email you and for several days I felt His Spirit chastising me. I had forgotten about the dream and was not even thinking about posting it when I was responding to frizz bee and then God began having me to write what He had told me, even revealing more. I will try to explain something about dreams... the purpose of dreams are in part to give warning to people so that some will heed this warning and change. We, or at least, I understand that if we heed these warnings then we are kept safe. But if we do not then the consequenses of God's admonishment in the dream will unfortunately be our fate. Franklin and frizz bee, were used as examples, because something they are "practicing as Christians" has been displayed publicly, and it is something that is shared by other Christians. It is the example of their behavior and practices that are so visibly wrong that they serve as examples for the "antithetical" behavior of Christians that God wants to "expose" and give warning to that He wants this "behavior" to stop. Because so many here have said they were a prophet or they just "dabble" in spiritually rebuking Carman or saying God told them that I was a false prophet, God must make known who is His so that He can accomplish what He wants by sending a prophet to His people in the first place--Ephesians 4:12-16. The interpretation of your dream was not a curse on franklin or anyone else. It was God wanting to use what they have demonstrated through their posts that He wants stopped in believers. He also want to end the confusion caused by the accusations by those who work in false "spirits". What frizz bee and franklin have demomstrated is what other generations in the Bible did that angered God and it has to do with injustice. Grace, to be honest, your friendship keeps be so offbalanced in what God has me to do and I could not understand why, but God helped me to understand this morning by having me to read Matthew 16:18-19 and then verse 23. You and everyone else can try to say the dream means this or the dream means that to try and remove the seriousness of the dream away from those who God wants to correct. But, franklin came to Carman's threads because he wanted to "cleanse the temple"... so allow franklin and others to see God, His Holy Spirit do this. God brought me here to speak what He wants. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3553 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
hfl: "Franklin and frizz bee, were used as examples, because something they are "practicing as Christians" has been displayed publicly, and it is something that is shared by other Christians. It is the example of their behavior and practices that are so visibly wrong that they serve as examples for the "antithetical" behavior of Christians that God wants to "expose" and give warning to that He wants this "behavior" to stop." That is just YOUR opinion. You do not know what God wants or doesn't want anymore than the rest of us do. You are no more a Prophet than any of the rest of us. You are not any closer to God than any of the rest of us. You and Carmen are no more "anointed" than the rest of us. God talks to all of us believing Christians through the Holy Spirit. But by believing that somehow you have a better connection to God than the rest of us you are actually blocking that channel and receiving less because of your pride and pseudo self importance. Again hfl: lighten up! | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 545 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.149.49.253 |
HFL, I do understand that is why Franklin came to these threads but God is a good God and I believe that God can change Franklin regarding his view about this. Franklin, why did you say that? You want HFL to allow you to say what you feel but then you want her to lighten up. She is just speaking what she feels the Holy Spirit is telling her like you want to do. There is no difference. We are just humans. And I do believe God wants this judgmental behavior to stop and that is why I understand HFL more than you do. Franklin, yes Captain, I too am glad that I am the weapons and security officer on the ship so I can stop your nukes when you want to shoot them.  I still love you. HFL, all I ask is that you simply understand that Franklin doesn't understand the judgmental thing like you and I do (or he has a different perspective on this). People can only change this when a lightbulb comes on or they have a conversion of sorts. That is why I am being so patient with him. He is just reacting to you like I did to you when you first started bringing things to my attention. I'm not really alarmed about your interpretation. Just adding my thoughts about my dream too. | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 546 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.149.49.253 |
And I love you HFL. Everyone - consider this. Who's job is it to cleanse the temple? Where is the temple of God today? Sometimes I know people get frustrated because they think that I may not be pointed out someone else's weakness and they feel like I am pointing out their weakness. It is not my desire to point out anyone's weakness because it is not my job to cleanse the temple. I couldn't clean it if I wanted to. Now at times . . . I will say things to people out of love that they may not see but I have learned that MOST of the time it is best to do this privately. Yet again, I cannot cleanse my own body to be a temple for the Holy Spirit so I can't try to cleanse anyone else's body. But I can lovingly give them my perspective. Franklin if I get to doing this too much to you publicly let me know. I just get this feeling that you are very comfortable with yourself and can handle it. I just pray for the spirit of reconciliation among Christians that I see in my last dream to occur. Not a false unification like the harlot spoken of in the Bible but the unification that is talked about in: Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Franklin, the five fold ministry is real. I too thought it wasn't because of what I was taught but look at the verses - have we all come to the unity of the faith yet? I think not. But I look forward to that day. It's there - you and I can pretend that it isn't because we have been taught against it all our lives but it is in the Bible and I am using King James. We have been deceived about this in the past Franklin. It is right before our very eyes and we couldn't see it because we listened to those that told us it said something different. It's plain as day though: WHEN will there be unity: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: HFL, please know that I don't savour or even agree with Franklin about this. Franklin knows that I don't think he should judge Carman or Carman's website, etc. and based on my post above that I don't think he should be cleansing the temple. I have told him that I don't agree with the judgmental issues but to him your posts appear judgmental to him so he is having difficulty seeing this. I am just mentioning this here because I want to make it clear still yet that I don't support the cleansing the temple bit. But I think that Franklin has done this because he simply does not see. Love, Grace | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 547 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.149.49.253 |
I will try to explain something about dreams... the purpose of dreams are in part to give warning to people so that some will heed this warning and change. We, or at least, I understand that if we heed these warnings then we are kept safe. But if we do not then the consequenses of God's admonishment in the dream will unfortunately be our fate. God took Elijah home in a whirlwind. I keep seeing and being brought to pictures of something similar with the pole and all too. Is this a warning that God is planning to take me home HFL? a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and came between Elijah and Elisha This is why I'm getting stuck. I am a witness but am I like Elisha? I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying just trying to work through it. | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3554 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
I said what I said because I do not believe in modern day prophets or apostles. And because I know hfl is no more capable of hearing from God than I am. I do not talk to people and say "God told me this....." How are they to know whether it is from God, satan or just my own opinions? They certainly shouldn't just take my word for it or think I have some special connection to God that they do not. All we can say is what is our belief of what God wants or doesn't want and maybe the reader or listener will recognize it as the word of God. If not then either they are not ready to hear it OR it is NOT the word of God. That is why I said what I said. I wish hfl would understand this. | ||
| kookie77777 Junior Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 4.255.192.240 |
hmmmmmmmmmm u don't believe in modern day prophets???? well congrats buffet christan.. pick and choose what u want to believe....... but i look into the bible and i see that some will be teachers some evangelist.. and some GASP>>>>>hmm lets see if u can understand this..... some will be prophets, yupers frankie...u huh PROPHETS... THAT IS IN THE BIBLE HUNI. AND....... SOME WILL BE APOSTLES......yup in the bible. i wonder if u ever heard of smith wigglesworth, or john g lake VERY GREAT MEN OF GOD.. AND THEY BROUGHT MANY MANY TO THE LORD...NOW are YOU willing to accually look. or are u a buffet christian???? stubborn, rebellious, rebellion is as witchcraft..YUP THAT IS IN THE BIBLE TOO. soooooooooo what are u willing to do with this information, or are u going to make more excuses for the way u treat other??? TIME TO GROW UP .......... | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 548 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.165.151.26 |
Guys, guys, guys, you are making me sad. First, as a past buffet Christian one should understand that buffet Christians don't see themselves as such so hitting them over the head generally doesn't help. Sure it may be coincidental that you hit them over the head at the same time the Holy Spirit is convicting them and God is able to use that for good even though He certainly doesn't want you to hit people over the head. I do believe that one can be saved and not totally understand the Word of God completely. Actually, I am sure there is still more that I need to learn about the word of God and understanding that I don't have. (By the way, Franklin and Kookie - sometimes u guys confuse me.) Anyway, the point is that sometimes people for some reason don't see the whole buffet. Like me . . . I have my eye on the strawberry shortcake mainly. LOL! You can't make Franklin believe what he cannot see. You just keep preaching the word of God and let the Holy Spirit do the work. Franklin, what people hear from God needs to line up with the word of God. That's one way you know which voice they are listening to. And also check with the Holy Spirit that lives inside of you. What does the Holy Spirit tell you? It's not always easy but I think if we stay in the Word and follow the will of God, we will be able to discern this more easily. Kookie - Franklin probably has not heard of Smith Wigglesworth or John G. Lake. I haven't either. It's not uncommon for people to not know of these guys but ultimately it is the Lord we need to know. Yes, Franklin, we all, if we are saved, have the Holy Spirit inside of us and are capable of hearing from God but sometimes we have too much background noise that is incorrect - things that we have been taught about the Bible that are not correct - yet we still managed to hear the truth about salvation. Sometimes the noise gets in the way and we only see part of the buffet. But the rest of the buffet is still there. Franklin, just dig into the word of God (which is somewhat hard to do if you are on the Internet all day). I'm just saying that because I'm planning on staying off the computer more. Not that you will not see me here or there. We should all pray that God let's us see all of the buffet that He has provided for us. Anyway, stating an opinion or belief is one thing. Fighting is something else - and I don't want to fight. | ||
| wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 431 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 |
Hi Grace2U I now have been reading some of the other post to see what HFL was talking about, because I was being serious with your dream, and wasn't trying to take away from those who God wants to correct. Again I said in my post that it was just a thought not a fact. And again it is of no use arguing with people who have differant ideas. It's like blowing smoke through the chimney, but the top isn't open to let the natural upward flow go through. It seals itself off from letting anything new enter. So then the smoke just has to exit another way. Where the door can be opened, and those that hear it will understand it. The posters are new names in here so I don't know them. Or once again it's still the same posters, but again with their names changed who knows????? All the best Grace2U Let God arise and his enemies be scattered, and may he give you even more dreams to flow in blessings from on high. Wingsy | ||
| ashamed Intermediate Member Username: ashamed Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.79.95.78 |
GRACE SAID""Franklin, what people hear from God needs to line up with the word of God. That's one way you know which voice they are listening to. And also check with the Holy Spirit that lives inside of you. What does the Holy Spirit tell you? It's not always easy but I think if we stay in the Word and follow the will of God, we will be able to discern this more easily.""".............................................. Very well said!!! and i also want to add that evey human being can ""hear God"" thats what he wants, thats how he wants to comunicate with us!! thats how we ""know him, his word says that his children know his voice, if you have a CLOSE and personal relationship to him then you can hear him if you listen, as for the prophets and prophetesses yes there are those called by God today, the difference between prophets and eveyone eles is God has called them for a perpose to warn, encorage,and speak very specific things to churches , nations and people!! its a office and a gift and ministry that God has called that person to carry out!!! | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3556 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
I will repeat this for all of you who did not read this: www.apologeticsindex.org "It has recently become popular to speak of "the five-fold ministry," a system of church government with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The neo-Pentecostal "Restoration" movement and its offshoot, "kingdom now" teaching, claims that one of the things which God is "restoring" to the church is this five-fold ministry. The sole prooftext used to support this concept is Ephesians 4:11-13 , which states that Christ gave "some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,...until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the full knowledge of the Son of God." The word "until," it is argued, proves that the church today needs apostles and prophets as much as evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, it is the "building up" of the church (v.12) which must continue until the church is mature, not all five of the offices listed in verse 11. This is clear when the whole text is read as follows: "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers; [these offices were given] to equip the saints for the work of service, [which work has as its goal] to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith..." The offices of apostle and prophet would naturally cease in the church once their role in "equipping the saints" was completed; that is, once the New Testament canon was completed. Some have objected that there is no reason to bracket off the apostles and prophets from the other three offices listed in verse 11. However, in the very same epistle, Paul states that the church has "been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" (Eph. 2:20 ) and that Christ's mystery concerning the church was "revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" (3:5 ). These statements indicate that the role of apostles and prophets was fulfilled in the first century." The purpose of "prophets" and "apostles" has been fulfilled in the first century A.D. Done! Completed! Finished! Once the New Testament was completed there was no longer a need for them. Anyone who calls themselves a "prophet" now is just falsely putting themselves up on a pedestal for other Christians to look up to. I can not "see" something that is not there. Down with manworshipping! Up with God worshipping! I ONLY look up to Jesus Christ! | ||
| redeemed4life Intermediate Member Username: redeemed4life Post Number: 182 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.253.71.81 |
To Whom It May Concern, If you want to know what God is saying TO YOU then read the BIBLE! It is plain and simple and so much so that we in our own complex minds want to make much more to it than it is. Man makes mistakes, lets emotions get involved, but God's Word is perfect, complete, nothing lacking and nothing missing. | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 549 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.11.94 |
I totally agree with the statements above quoted in Ephesians. My only point is that we have not all come to the unity of the faith - I just don't see it. I totally agree with Franklin that we should not be worshipping man and these seems to have been an issue for a long time: 1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. I see this thread as evidence that we have not all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Saying that "These statements indicate that the role of apostles and prophets was fulfilled in the first century" is going directly against what the Bible is saying in Ephesians 4:13. And even in this we should be worshipping Christ and not man's interpretation of something that goes against what is said in Ephesians 4:13 by making an extrapolation. Love, Grace | ||
| ashamed Intermediate Member Username: ashamed Post Number: 383 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.79.95.78 |
oiy !! why bother??? | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 550 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.11.94 |
Love | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 551 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.144.11.94 |
Wings, I appreciate all comments about my dream. What I have learned about dreams is that it is generally about the dreamer alone. Perhaps the office of Prophet can pick up on something else regarding dreams - I'm not going against this - I simply have not been taught about anything but how to "try" to interpret my own dreams. So if you have any thoughts - please tell me. Again, I appreciated HFL's thoughts too and even said that I came up with a similar interpretation as HFL at one time. I did think the dream was serious too when I first had it - however, it was kinda strange that it did play out in the Factnet related world so to speak. (Not everyone here will understand this.) I was just pointing it out. It may indeed be a warning for someone else here or for me since it surrounds my dream and I don't want to take anything away from a warning that God is giving. I want to make that plain. I was just telling about what I had thought about it. I will say that I never really had an "ill" feeling from the dream. The picture of the waters going back gave a good feeling. The only feeling that I really felt about the pole and the trucks crashing into it was that it just seemed to take me off guard because I was focusing on the water and the trucks came out of the blue. God Bless, Grace | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3559 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
The only time Christians will truly come to a unity in faith will be in heaven. But the apostles and prophets were replaced by the availability of the Bible. Ministers are good to help us see scripture in different lights. A friend could do that for you also. But letting someone else interpret God's word for you and you blindly accepting it is just being lazy! Sorry, but it's true. Nobody is smarter or better than anyone else. We just need and know different things. And we all need God's help! | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 552 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.148.72.2 |
Yes, we should not let others interpret for us but we can listen to them and take what they have learned. This is what you do when you listen to a minister too. No different. Mercy Me said it best when she said if it doesn't seem right (what others say) just kick it out. I agree with sentence 1 in your post. You can't prove sentence two by the Bible. You can keep trying (and I'll listen and kick out what does not totally agree with the Bible). Slowly, slowly read over what you have posted here about the five-fold ministries and see if it really stands up. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible that says the gift of prophecy, etc. stopped in the 1st century AD. All you have is a hypothesis that cannot be supported by the word of God. But the following IS supported by the word of God: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. You almost nailed it when you said the following: The only time Christians will truly come to a unity in faith will be in heaven. You just are ignoring what Ephesians 4:13 says. Do you not believe this verse is part of the Bible? You are in a corner and don't even realize it my friend. | ||
| ashamed Intermediate Member Username: ashamed Post Number: 386 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.79.95.78 |
amen grace!! this topic seems never ending on here its like beating a dead horse !!! we have to agree to disagree and pray and ask GOD to show us what his truth is not our own interpretation of what his truth is , so many people take bits and piecses from the word and make it say what they want, we need to take the whole verse or chapter and read it well!!! prophets,prophetesses & apostals ARE here today i aagree some are false, but most are used of God!!! God is the same yesterday,today and tomarrow!!! | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3562 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.180.154 |
Now you are talking about the "gifts" of prophecy. I am talking about the "office" of a prophet or apostle. 2 different things. I believe in the "gifts". I also believe that there is no real way to prove someone has this or that gift. You can only go by what feels right in your heart. That is an opinion. A spiritual opinion. But never the less an opinion. Ephesians 14 "14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" That is ALL I have heard come from the mouths of these so called modern day self proclaimed prophets and apostles. Every wind of doctrine but the true one. I will continue to discuss this subject with you because it is NOT clearly demonstrated in Ephesians 4 that the "offices" of prophets and apostles are still needed. Gifts yes. Offices no. | ||
| redeemed4life Intermediate Member Username: redeemed4life Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.253.65.238 |
God is saying the same thing NOW as He did THEN. REPENT, turn from evil, WORSHIP GOD ALONE, have faith in, trust in, believe in and rely upon CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED. Every Prophet and Apostle spoke the same message in Biblical times, now God has made it clear to us through the Holy Spirit the message He used the Prophets and Apostles to speak. He is NOT going to send someone to speak any other message period. When looking at todays modern profits (yes I know the spelling is what some would consider incorrect) and self proclaimed apostle's this is not the message they are speaking. NOT all but some. I lean more toward there not being any modern day apostle's and prophets but to each his own, it is only my opinion. I do know that whether there are or arent, God's message is still the same. On another note, if there is modern day prophet's and apostles then I believe they will speak a balanced message according to the WORD OF GOD, meaning not all condemning and not all merciful. Not to mention, as like Jonah, he spoke a prophecy that did not come to pass and he was mad with God because he felt like God made him out to look like a liar when in actuality the people headed the warning.That is to say that if a true Word is spoken just because it doesnt come to pass in the way WE think it should doesnt mean that GOD didnt use that person to speak for Him and it doesnt mean that the Word that was spoken didnt come to pass. | ||
| grace2u Advanced Member Username: grace2u Post Number: 553 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 172.167.30.140 |
Franklin, I will continue to discuss this subject with you because it is NOT clearly demonstrated in Ephesians 4 that the "offices" of prophets and apostles are still needed. Gifts yes. Offices no. It does not say gift of prophecy or just prophecy etc. it says prophets, apostles, etc. and then the term "some" and "some" - you are losing me here. Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles [not the gift of planting churches, etc} ; and some, prophets [not the gift of prophecy]; and some, evangelists [not the gift of evangelizing]; and some, pastors [not the gift of preaching] and teachers [not the gift of teaching]; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ I agree with ashamed. You have good reasons to be cautious but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because something may be rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I cannot see how this does not refer to the office? I still love ya though. | ||
| frizz_bee Member Username: frizz_bee Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.130.227.37 |
Franklin, Your posts are well thought out, and you seem to be interested in "reality above fantasy". Which is always a good position. We disagree about modern day Prophets and so on, but that is a debate for the Word and the Holy Spirit. However, when you encounter false prophets/self proclaimed/self deceived and the "impressions" or arrogations and demand or imploring to be recognized as perdurable, your cautions and hesitancy that you write here are worthy. Apostles are not rare, that is a religious belief and interpretation. They are not as numerous as non authoratative believers just as there are leaders over countries and many more citizens or many more civil employees etc. Many lawyers, many many clients,less Judges but still many Judges in varying federal and state postions, analogously speaking. What creates such a prejudice in circles varying from Assembly of God to Calvary Chapels and many inbetween, is the flakiness, self proclaimed and insistent(like here) and as though repeating and explaining it removes the illness or the falsehood from it. You can be sincere, and be sincerely wrong. When someone comes to a conclusion that they are like Jeremiah based on an extrapolation/imagination/desperation with some section of scripture, and when they are at odds with those who act in a way or present information that is more typical and accurate to the prophetic position this is why Pastors and ministries are so appropriately cautious. Being a Prophet you have to be tested, proved, recognized, approved by ministers or ministries, and usually by another mentor type of a Prophet who has earned, or is called to more authority than yourself in the Kingdom. That may come in time or some of the aspects of testing and proving may be in movement when a person ministers or hears in this capacity. There are varying levels of authority both positionally and with in the positions themselves. Many people with psychotic breaks and power/anger problems believe they are "prophets", have "dreams" and seek to lead or dominate others and when prowess or debate doesn't work they will try pity, charm, seduction, whatever they can muster to garner attention and power. Those with the same problems will support each other and "recognize" each other, also the same spirituality will attract and support itself, especially where there is a power and truth struggle. False prophets are a real problem and mentally ill people will insist and spiritualize no matter what is said. Although, legitmate Prophets in the Bible were thought to be/accused of being mentally ill/crazy. Usually when they are prophesying about sin and impending trouble caused by idolatry or a disciplinary action from God, even judgment and the parties do not want to hear it or believe it. This is very different than someone claiming to be a prophet who whitewashes the sins of others and exalts them to a level that is above or distorts real Christianity. Apologetics are wonderful, although they too can become religious and rigid and can result in distortion. The goal is to clarify, defend and provide proof, so that claims and distortions can be corrected. Also, when a so called prophet is all about themselves and their experience in a certain manner, that proves that it is an emotional or mental condition and not the legitimate office or birthright from the womb as the Bible defines. I can understand why Carman is inimical about believing that someone is a Prophet because he has been inundated by many people writing, "prophesying" who are fantasizing or plainly, "flakes", with good intentions or otherwise. I see in the Word, that Prophets can encourage and envision, as well as warn, direct, propser, correct, expose, remedy and challenge to repent by identifying real areas of sin and violence. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 378 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.238.211.147 |
In regards to what wings mentioned about what was happening in the Middle East. In 2004, a man of God had told believers that God had told him to tell God's people to fast and pray for forty days and He would bring peace to the Middle East. But, a Christian, who did not believe in prophets or prophecies, who had heard this went about publicly ridiculing this man. This man went about doing this, because in his arrogance he knew nothing would happen. He said he was tired of these ministries because he had witnessed all these "so called" prophecies never happen and this was why he scorned the so-called men of God. So he mockingly did a forty day countdown---tick-tock, tick-tock was how his prophecy timewatch went. Each day he laughed, rejoicing that God had not stopped the fighting in the Middle East and just as he believed, another so-called man of God was being exposed as false. During this forty days, the man sought to remind people that if this did not happen then the prophecy and the man of God was false... This was how he tested them. When the forty days came to an end, the man was literally gloating that the prophecy had not happened that the chaos and fighting was still continuing in the Middle East and according to him, another so-called man of God had been shown to be false. I grieved for the man who had obeyed God and prophesied, I also grieved for myself because I did not understand and I was afraid of men like the one who passionately pursued and hunted down those who speak for God and if God doesn't "back" us up then this people are correct about us. But, I knew for myself that I loved God and I only wanted to obey Him. Then God explained to me what I had yet to understand about prophecy and prophet. God said that the man of God was not false, it was the listener who was false, those who heard and did not fast and pray for forty days, were false. God reminded me that Jesus taught, those "who has ears to hear, let him hear." God told me, "If the children of Israel had not fasted and prayed for three days as Esther told them, what would have happened?" God said He would not have rescued them. He would have rescued those who were obedient, but the rest He would not. God said recognize the man who mocked this. He would rather have the suffering to continue in the Middle East to prove the man of God was false, and in his own arrogance, prove he was right and thus, people would listen to him-- but what he teaches is the opposite of faith. He believes and teaches others to believe in only what they see and deny the lessons of how our God moves. God told me that if Christians want to put an end to the fighting in the Middle East then to do as God tells them through a prophet, apostle, evangelist, preacher or teacher. Do so in faith! God wants me to tell Christians to repent for not doing this. And to by faith recognize that they can through obedience to God make the fighting stop and because of their obedience and faith to God, He will bring peace to the Middle East and God will receive Glory because of what He has done because of He listened to His people's cry. Grace knows that she asked me once to help her to understand about prophecy and prophets and God had me to tell her that those who heard, the listeners, also have a responsibility. How do you know if someone is false? God reasoned this to me, "How could what the man of God told believers have been wrong? Isn't this what you all long to see peace brought to these people and God receive glory?" | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 379 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.238.211.147 |
The one thing that the Vietnam War should teach us as Christians is that America does not win the wars, but the nation whose God is the Lord. In times of World unrest, before the Vietnam War, Americans at home would give up things to support those Americans who went to help stop the unrest and bring peace. But, now as Americans we do not. Now, as Americans we do not like the inconveniences we are "forced" to endure. So we, as Americans complain. But, as Christians who would argue that we want America, our nation to remain a nation whose God is the Lord, we must demonstrate our faith and our heart by being willing to give up the delicacies of choice foods i.e. fasting, as Daniel and his friends did, then God will not only bring peace to the Middle East, but He will revive America. And instead of complaining, pray in unity. Instead of "wasting" time arguing and slandering ministries, spend it in prayer. This is what God desires. | ||
| wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 432 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.35.40.123 |
hope_faith_and_love Now this was so good that I want to post what you said again. This is what I've been trying to say myself ever since I saw this message board. Thanks hope_faith_and_love for putting it in simple english so that everyone can understand it. Here it is once again and I quote: As Christians who would argue that we want America, our nation to remain a nation whose God is the Lord, we must demonstrate our faith and our heart by being willing to give up the delicacies of choice foods i.e. fasting, as Daniel and his friends did, then God will not only bring peace to the Middle East, but He will revive America. And instead of complaining, pray in unity. Instead of "wasting" time arguing and slandering ministries, spend it in prayer. This is what God desires. Man that is good, and again I love this the most, because there is power in prayer: pray in unity. Instead of "wasting" time arguing and slandering ministries, spend it in prayer. This is what God desires. Through prayer we can move mountains, and we can make a huge differance. Blessings Wingsy PS. It's also like Ashamed said: this topic seems never ending on here its like beating a dead horse !!! we have to agree to disagree and pray. Ashamed you too are right on, and we are united together when we pray in numbers without ceasing, and the Lord will go before the prayers of his children, and he will take the battle in his own right hand. | ||
| hope_faith_and_love Intermediate Member Username: hope_faith_and_love Post Number: 380 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 69.237.79.144 |
What has been happening since July 20th when God had me to write the posts above as a reminder and a rebuke for Christians to show they are God's by praying and fasting. Is there anyone here who has ears to hear? What would have happened if those who claim they belong to Christ had done what they were supposed to do? Is there no one here who understands that when God has someone to go before His people to tell them to pray and fast that it is a sign of danger that lies ahead for them and He will stop it if only they humble themselves to Him. This is how we fight the invisible enemy at work in this world. Signs of his work is all around--- Look what is happening in Israel. How many of you knew that July 30th marked the 50th Anniversary of America's National Motto In God We Trust? Who has ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is imparting that Satan wanted to make certain that the Christians in America would have to remain silent on this day. No public displays of celebrations to unite us and remind us. Christians on factnet don't believe God's word that says "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." But, Satan believes. And he knew what an important day this anniversary could be for Christians and a very serious day for him. Oh, there were a few celebrations, but none of them dared promote it or draw attention to it because they feared the people it would attract-- groups that seek to remove this permanently. Especially here in California where Satan has such a power hold on America to ensure that this day would be silenced. If only believers had listened and prayed and fasted. This is why what happened to Mel Gibson happened. Who else could have drawn all eyes and ears around the world? Everything that happened with him was because Satan sent every spiritual power and dark force to overcome Mel. Satan knew where a hint of blood could be found and he went for it. Alcoholics Anonymous could not prepare Mel Gibson to overcome this unseen driving force that incited him to drink. This was a spiritual attack. Only God's people praying and fasting could have stopped this. Mel Gibson is dumbfounded by what happened because he knows what happened did not come from his heart--- but no one will ever believe him. Who has ears to hear and understand? Look who scorns this! Look who rejoices and gloats over this! The enemies of God and Jesus Christ. Look at Christians who spent their time slandering ministries. Look who spent their time blaspheming the name of Jesus Christ. And look at the Christian who stood and agreed with these. Look who claimed they do not judge! Look who denies the power of God! Look who came here to draw believers away from praying and to stir up trouble and gossip! Those with ears let them hear what the Spirit of God is saying. | ||
| mercy_me Member Username: mercy_me Post Number: 81 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 206.228.128.9 |
AMEN!!! | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 144 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 58.168.215.6 |
Between August 23 and October 2 are the 40 days of Teshuvah. Teshuvah was the second time Moses went up the mountain of God to receive His laws again. After he had smashed the first law through righteous anger at seeing what the children of Israel had done. How they sinned by making a golden calf out of their jewelery. They though Moses wasn't coming back down, they doubted and began to serve a lesser god. Still Moses pleaded God's mercy for the children of Israel. The golden calf, for today is an image of the idols we build in our hearts. Idols which put Jesus second in our lives, anything which goes before Jesus and anything that exhalts itself over and above Jesus is just like that golden calf of old. We are like the children of Israel in the wilderness, after the new birth in Christ, because even though we have been born again, we must go through sanctification. Sometimes we don't even realise that we have built an idol in our heart, so it is good to examine ourselves, and give Jesus room and highest place in our hearts. He wants all the room in our heart, not just a little, He wants us to be hot for Him, turned on with Godly zeal and living in His truth and walking in His love. This is a good time to reflect on where we are really at. It is good to do this always, but we are strange creatures, who like to observe rituals such as Christmas and Easter. These 40 days are a traditional time for reflection, prayer and fasting, and I like to do as the Jews seeing I am one internally. Jesus Christ came to set us free from the law, but His grace fulfills it and not one jot will be erased from it, in Jesus we can be sanctified, and righteous, able to live up to God's expectations of us, and in Him we can have faith. Without which it is impossible to please God. And if we have sinned, He is our advocate who pleads mercy for us and who paid our price, Jesus Christ is doing like Moses did for the children of Israel. God gives us mercy because of Him, no one else is worthy to even ask the mercy of God, yet when we submit to Him with a pure heart we will receive His righteousness through His graciousness. (Message edited by julia on September 01, 2006) | ||
| psalm_1135 New member Username: psalm_1135 Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 70.178.195.217 |
Thank you Julia! | ||
| julia Intermediate Member Username: julia Post Number: 145 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 124.176.232.137 |
Welcome Psalm 113.5 An idol can take many different forms, it can be our pride, it can be our job, it can be our family or home. It can also be our thoughts, our imagination, our fantasies,it can be a person we really like, whatever takes up it's throne in our lives, whatever takes our attention away from Jesus and His purity and truth is an idol. Even ministry can become an idol and a religious thing we do without all of our hearts, mindless ritual. An idol can be the gift God has given you to share His gospel, if you find the gift more important than the giver of the gift, then that is an idol, just like if we find the light in someone more important than the giver of the light it is also an idol, in fact this is how many heresies were made: by esteeming a person and his/her gifts or their words over an above the source by which those words were given, or the gifts were given. The blessings of God in the old days manifested as the gold of the people, out of this gold the golden calf was made. The blessing should not be esteemed over and above Jesus Christ who has blessed us. The blessing should not fill us with self importance, but we must remain humble otherwise the blessing will turn into a curse. After we have eaten and are full of God we must take care not to forget God who has filled us, not to start relying on ourselves instead of His supernatural provision, otherwise things will go bad for us. We must remember those who are still oppressed and in darkness, not exhalt us above them where they cannot reach, but go down to them even as Jesus descended into prison to free the captives bound in death. The rich ruler would not sell his home and follow Jesus, his home was too dear to him and he clung to it like it would save him. It was a manifestation of a blessing he clung to. Deuteronomy 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, "let us go and serve other gods" which you have not known, neither you or your fathers, 7 "of the gods of the people who are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him" All idols should be exposed, both in us and those we see in others, the light of Jesus should shine on them so they will be expelled. The glory be to Jesus Christ, who has delivered us out of the hand of the enemy, who has set our feet upon His Glorious rock and who has taken us out of darkness into His light. May our hearts remain pure in His circumcision, receiving and craving His praise over and above the praise of man. | ||
| wingsaglow Intermediate Member Username: wingsaglow Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 71.213.145.229 |
Now Julia there is the wisdom that comes from the knowledge. You are right on thanks for the truth. Wingsy | ||
| kookie77777 Member Username: kookie77777 Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.0.79.87 |
some people are very wierd thinking that they can change another person and they cannot...sad but very true. hopefully this will be a year of finding out about the true love of God and not judging people |
