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blindcomposure
New member
Username: blindcomposure
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.170.40.165
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 5:53 pm: | 
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It's difficult to ask a question like this in an anonymous forum such as this. I guess that I've already "blown my cover" so it doesn't really matter to me. I'm just writing this because there are a lot of people with different stories and to be able to hear what people have to say on different posts within the context of knowing where they have come from might be helpful. So here goes...
I am a child of the Community. I was born in Hyannis to parents who were already solemn vowed members. The first 18+ years of my life, all I knew was the Community. And I mean that literally. From 8-12 grade, I was a homeschooled student by Community members. It doesn't get much better in terms of "in-breeding" if you will. There were weeks, months even when I wouldn't set foot outside of the community grounds. I had no need to. My entire life was centered around the Community. I was being groomed into being part of what we in the military refer to as "permanent personnel." I will not speak for myself in this, but I was told time and time again that I had "talent" when it came to music. As high school was drawing to a close, M. Betty became increasingly involved in my life, trying to "appease" the discontent I was starting to feel with the way things were turning up. I knew that there was a life in music outside of the community and staying on little Cape Cod in this Community just wasn't enough for me. About a month after graduation, Rick Pugsley approached me as director of the Spirit of America band and offered me the job as composer of the 05-06 field show. Of course, I was floored and agreed whole-heartedly. Shortly after that, M. Betty called myself and my cousin Ryan into her living room, not her office, along with Rick, James Jordan, and David Chalmers and offered us both positions of some responsibility within the little C of J musical hierarchy if you will. We were both being "groomed" into submission I guess. Sort of like a re-enlistment bonus in the military. Heh. The catch was that we were both going to be required to "re-up" for five more years in the C of J. And she wanted a response on the spot. I couldn't think well enough and I sort of nodded my assent, but never really committed to it. I was still feeling dissatisfied and wanted more from life. I started contemplating running away. A friend of mine had offered me a place to stay in upstate New York, even going so far as to offer to pick me up from the Community. My parents got wind of this "plot" and were FURIOUS. My dad said I was a "fool" for doing what I was doing and said that either I was going to stay in the Community and become a Resident member or I was going to leave and join a military service. I couldn't bear to stay there where I felt so suffocated by the things that I loved. I was afraid that I was going to lose all joy in what I was doing if I continued in what they wanted from me. And music was and remains WAY to important to me than to allow anyone to take that away from me. So I told him I'd join the military. Naturally being a proud person, I wouldn't allow myself to join anything BUT the Marine Corps because of how I looked at the Marines as being the most prestigious unit. So here I am. Drifting further and further from the Community the more I get to see it objectively. I hope my posting this on here will allow some people to understand where I come from better. I also hope that some others will be willing to share their stories so that we can all benefit from their personal experiences. There is a lot to be said, in my opinion, for understanding where someone comes from. I hope I've been clear. |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 195.147.141.13
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 1:18 am: |
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Very clear indeed, BC! Thank you for sharing this. I will pray that, whatever your final decision about your life, you will lead it in a place where your gifts can find their greatest fulfilment and your heart's desires can be fulfilled. Your parents were and are happy at the C of J, but that doesn't mean you have to be called there necessarily. Bless you for your courage and your honest searching. |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 195.147.141.13
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 7:44 am: |
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My story: I went to GCC to join the community when I was 25 years old. I became a Christian in university and really wanted a place to live a committed Christian life. I had found real security with the student Christian groups I belonged to, and in some ways was looking for an extension of that sense of family and belonging. My own family was military so we moved often and I found it difficult always having to start again. Also, my dad was an off-and-on alcoholic and my mother, somewhat browbeaten and finding validation through her profession. I really loved so much about GCC life in those early days, particularly the sense of mission and the sense of family. I had so little sense of my own worth that I believed I deserved all the correction I got, that I really was as (fill in the sin--usually haughty, jealous, etc) as everyone said. It was ten or fifteen years at least before the scales started to fall from my eyes as I became aware of the discrepancy between how the 'powerful' lived and how carefully those who were considered insignificant were sidelined and abused. There began to be a huge discrepancy between my professional life, where I was given a great deal of respect outside the school, and the kind of disparaging and demeaning treatment I lived with every day in the GCC 'community'. I also found I just couldn't buy into the whole approach to God. I began to feel a voice of God speaking to me, telling me that for my own sanity I needed to leave, and that I could never be true to myself unless I walked out the door. Since I am not particularly courageous or outspoken, it took years before I was willing to listen. I also began to doubt many of the very narrow ideas of authority that we were taught. I began to confront those in authority about these differences; in fact, about how I really felt. I was so lucky that, for all my birth family's flaws, as soon as I was willing to admit I needed help to leave, they gently provided me with both emotional and financial backing. I asked for a leave of absence, but it was denied. Meanwhile the leadership were becoming more and more angry about the stands I was taking. Eventually I had the courage to just walk out the door. Perhaps it would never have happened if I hadn't found a job. The need for financial security was very high and my pride too much to want to take handouts! I have to say, I have never regretted the decision for a nanosecond. I find it hard to connect with the person I was, who was really content and happy at GCC for many years. I feel such a real connection to God, and I know he cares for me and allows me to be the person I am, but so loved. panderson said at one point that no matter what hell he went through afterwards, it paled in comparison to the emotional agony of life within. I feel the same way. I would never, ever want to return, and don't really feel any desire to visit. I feel so much more fortunate than those of you who grew up in the system and have family there. I went through my own weakness emotionally and need for security, but what I found was that the price to pay for that security was selling my soul. |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 685
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 8:48 am: |
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Thank you, BC, for starting this thread. I want to commend you for your courage in all you have been through, and for standing up for youself in spite of the possible consequences.
ex-gcc, thank you as well, it certainly gives me a lot of insight as to why GCC was how it was during the time I spent there.
I hope others will jump on here and share their stories as well |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 686
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 9:06 am: |
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I will do my best to share my story, although there are some key things I will have to leave out due to the fact this is a public forum on the internet.
I also am a child of the community. I believe my siblings and I were the first children actually born into the group. My mother was deemed by the leaders as 'in rebellion' during her pregnancy with me and I was taken away from her shortly after my birth. I was given over to Jill as my primary caretaker who was a teenager at the time, however all the young girls took turns caring for me. I was always confused as to who my mother was and never developed a healthy relationship with any parent figure. I also spent time alone with Cay and Judy as a child, which left a scar on my soul. When I was around four I was abruptly taken to new caretakers and banned from C&J's presence, and eventually sent back to my birth parents. I was a very depressed child, and as I grew older I became manic and suicidal. I outwardly rebelled against the system and tried, through the school and local authorities, to be removed from the community. The authorities intervened and mandated that I see a therapist which was not affiliated with CoJ, and at that momment I was literally packed into a car and shipped off to GCC where I spent the next four and a half years. At GCC I felt I really had become an orphan. I was always in trouble, being put on D and different restrictions for petty reasons, such as not looking happy. I went home for one summer between grade 11 and 12, hoping to run away from the community and GCC, but when I got back my father, who had left, told me he wouldnt help me leave. I was then sent to Bermuda for the summer. I was very lonely and my depression escalated. They tried to convince me to stay in Bermuda and abandon school, but I would not agree. I finished my schooling at GCC, and sent away for college apps, but the guidance counselor told me I could not apply to college, and I had no money for the applications. I also had no outside resources to help me find a way to do it. Two weeks after graduation, I was back at the community, and I ran away. I was 17, had no money and no place to live. I was so full of anger, resentment and fear. I sought to ease my pain by submitting to abusive relationships, alcohol, and other substances. I internallized all my pain and was slowly killing myself. Fortunately, I was able to get some help and am now rebuilding the ruins I made of my life, and finally seeking long needed counsel. I felt that I have been completely alone all these years. Over the past 15 years I cannot tell you how many times I have done a google search and such, looking for people who would understand me. All the replies to these posts and the renewed sense of family I have found through reconnecting with everyone here has brought more healing than I can ever describe.
Ok, that was the really condensed version, and I've gone on so long already.
In Peace and Love ~ DT
(Message edited by dream_truth on June 09, 2006) |
bluewater2
Senior Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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I really admire you DT, and the rest of you that are giving the real world a try. It ain't easy always, but it is what it is. |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 81.77.133.101
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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DT, I am so sorry for the grief and abandonment you experienced at GCC. Let's try again, shall we? Rewind the clock, and I'll try to forget myself and reach out to you. Of course, we plebs had no idea all that was happening in your life. That kind of information became power in the hands of the powerful. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 6:56 am: |
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I
What is truth? In the Community of Jesus, truth was whatever we were told it was. That has a Jonestown ring to it, but the analogy does not fit. We were well-educated (at one point there were five doctorates from Harvard and three from Eastman among our number). We’d been successful in the world, whether CEO’s or carpenters, pastors of growing churches, doctors or lawyers, architects or teachers. We all bought into the Community’s point of view on everything.
Take the question of “family idolatry.” The family unit is the very foundation of society – as God intended. He entrusted our children into our care, with the understanding that we would train them up in the way that they should go – His way [Prov. 22:6]. Parents passing on their social values to their children is how society is formed.
But in the CofJ we were taught that family idolatry – putting any relationship before our relationship with God – was a core sin. (There’s truth in that, but any truth pushed to its extreme, out of balance with the rest, becomes error.) We were all guilty of family idolatry, and we were all taught to hate it. So children were separated from their parents. Husbands and wives were turned against one another. (“If you two have a problem in the middle of the night, just wake us up. We’ll help you.”) And any contact with family outside the Community was discouraged. Family traditions were deliberately cut – especially at Christmastime, the time that God has always used to draw families back together again.
If the Community’s control was to remain absolute, the family unit had to be broken down. When I left, there were ten pairs of husbands and wives not sleeping under the same roof.
The Bible is clear that the husband is to be the head of his household. [Eph. 5:23] But men, perhaps because they took longer to process things, or because it was harder for them to lay down their protective walls and/or self, were for the most part not trusted with spiritual authority. The real control of most households wound up in the hands of the women, who wound up running everything.
Control was always the issue – though I only gradually came to see this, after coming out. Breaking up families was one method of maintaining that control. Another was keeping anyone from putting down roots. Roots equaled stability, and stability encouraged confidence. A confident, praying Christian is not easy to control. We were moved frequently, sometimes in the middle of the night with no warning (nacht und nebel), and with only a few hours to gather up one’s possessions. We used to joke about it, especially if we’d grown fond of our household. “The shadow of the Angel of Move has been seen on the southern border. Quick, put blood over our lintel!”
And no one was exempt. People who thought that they would never be moved from their homes, were moved. Family members away from the CofJ had difficulty understanding all this, so they weren’t informed. If they caught wind of it, the individual was to assure them that it was a good thing, and they were really happy about it. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 6:58 am: |
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II
The chief method of maintaining control was through light groups. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Jesus ever taught that the end justifies the means. But we were taught that it did. The fact that we had taken vows to the Community and were covenanted together for life, in effect gave us permission to do whatever to took, to get some poor brother or sister to see what was so obvious to the rest of us. Sometimes the Mothers or Mother Betty would initiate these light sessions; sometimes we did ourselves, knowing what was expected of us.
To anyone who hasn’t experienced it, a light session is a fearsome thing – everyone wolf-packing on one individual, until they break and confess the error of their ways, begging the group’s forgiveness. If they don’t break, then we try again the next day and the next – persevering for the sake of their eternal soul. In really hard cases the individual would be sent to live with the Brothers or the Sisters for a season. True, things have moderated somewhat; we no longer have the mother of all light groups, the DVM-25. (“Immediate meeting in the chapel, for all double-vowed members, 25 and older.”) I’ll never forget the one called for my benefit. The entire Community dropped whatever they were doing to hurry to the Chapel to help me. Everyone was expected to take a turn at bat. (I survived by hiding in my left shoe and holding up a six-foot dummy for them to shoot at.)
I finally left, because I could no longer accept the foundational principle of the Community, that one could not trust one’s own discernment of God’s will for oneself, because it might be informed by one’s ego or will or intellect (which is true; we’re all imperfect vessels). One must, instead, choose by an act of one’s will to trust the group’s discernment of God’s will for one, over one’s own.
I left, because to remain would have meant having to recant my ability to hear God in my heart.
At this point, I’m going to say something which will surprise anyone who hasn’t lived at the CofJ. I am profoundly grateful for much of my life there. A lot of it was really good, and my fond memories are as rich and numerous as any of yours. I learned a great deal of lifelong value. And I made some of the best friends a person could ever ask for – close, true friends, the kind you don’t find very often, or make very easily. I can honestly say that I love everyone there, even Mother Betty. So leaving there was about the hardest thing I ever had to do. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 6:59 am: |
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III
How did so many bright, good people get drawn into the CofJ in the first place? The great seduction was spiritual pride. We wanted to be right. And the Community’s way was the most right of all. It still is, to those who are still there. Our leadership was the best; we’d never met anyone as wise and discerning and compassionate as Mother Betty (until you got on her blacklist, and once on, never off). Our worship was the best, our basilica was the best, our choir was the best, our band was the best, our drama was the best, our dance was the best, our art was the best. . . . “Excellence, to the glory of God” was our motto (though we didn’t mind if a little of that glory rubbed off on us).
The truth is, the CofJ’s arts are outstanding. Why wouldn’t they be? There are tremendously gifted people there, who love God and have sacrificed immensely for Him, laying down their whole lives for Him. And He loves each one of them, as much as He loves each one of us. So of course He is going to answer their prayers and anoint and inspire them! But does He bring them audiences? Does He open venues? Does He move the Body of Christ in America to embrace them? Does He draw new people to join them?
He did once. In the early days, when the Mothers were still going out to teach putting God first in every aspect of our daily lives, He brought many. There was a waiting list to get in. People were buying houses, the live-in program was full to overflowing, the teaching tapes were going out everywhere.
For all our impurities, for all our excesses – for all our iniquity – we were trying our best to serve God. He could see into our hearts, and seeing that they were pure, He honored our obedience.
Then, sometime in the late-70’s, it all turned inward. I never knew exactly why. My sense is that the Mothers finally got tired of bucking the resistance of the Body of Christ to their message of surrender to God’s will. Or the disapprobation of the media got to be too much for them. Or the excesses and abuses began to haunt them. Whatever the reasons, from then on they concentrated exclusively on the conversion (i.e., perfecting) of the souls whom God had entrusted into their care. No more Monday night teachings. No more invitational retreats, at home or away. No more live-in program. No more teams going out to teach and lead retreats. Henceforth, our outreach would be indirect. We would reach people through the excellence of our arts. They would want to know what motivated us – and then we could tell them. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 7:01 am: |
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IV
So – what happened? At the risk of spooking some of you, a principality has control over the Community – a large and powerful religious spirit. Before you throw that idea out, look at Peter Wagner’s Freedom from the Religious Spirit [Regal]. He, and the other authors he’s gathered, describe down to the smallest detail what is happening at the CofJ – and in all other churches, prayer groups, and residential communities where absolute power has corrupted absolutely. Wagner is a widely-respected leader in the prophetic stream. Dutch Sheets, Chuck Pierce, Gwen Shaw, Lou Engle, and many others look up to him.
The good news is, if we are battling principalities and powers, then it’s a war in the heavenlies, a war we can win. All it takes is prayer – which is God’s way. A class-action suit would only serve the devil’s purposes. Good people – people we love – would be financially ruined. But this way, with God lifting the rock in the field, and all the dark secrets frantically scurrying to get out of the sunlight, all that will be hurt is their spiritual pride.
Understand, no one in the CofJ would accept this. A religious spirit? Like in a Frank Peretti novel? Come on! But when you’re deceived, you’re not aware of it. I wasn’t. Outsiders used to ask me, “But isn’t that place a cult?” To which I’d reply, “Judge the tree by its fruit. [Mat. 7:17,18] I consider myself the least fruit of that tree.” That shut them up. But, as I came to learn after leaving, it did not alter their discernment.
They are all under the thrall of this principality, and none of them, not even Mother Betty, is aware of it. Members would have anxiety attacks and not know why or where they came from. During my last few years there, I would be hit with waves of oppression – so heavy that all I wanted to do was get in bed and pull the covers over my head. I developed a defensive prayer, a Celtic one that warded it off. “My Jesus, I trust in you. Father, I trust in you. Holy Spirit, I trust in you. Holy Trinity, blessed Three in One, I trust in you.” It worked, and I taught it to some of my friends who were also under oppression.
Since leaving, I’ve come to see it’s emanating from that principality. In my prayers God calls him Leviathan. When I first got out, so much fear and guilt would wash over me that I actually contemplated going back. Then I would rebuke Leviathan and turn to the Lord, and it would lift.
There’s a good side to this. If Leviathan is a real entity, and if he has cast a spell over the Community, then that absolves our loved ones from complicit responsibility. Was the Gadarene demoniac responsible for the mayhem he caused? No. He and the town rejoiced and praised God, when he was finally back in his right mind.
I realize that this will turn some of you away. All I’ll say is, if you can hear God in your heart, ask Him. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 7:02 am: |
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V
Can the CofJ be rehabilitated? Yes, absolutely. But it will cost them all their pride. Because they will have to publicly acknowledge that grievous harm has been done to many (and what’s coming out in this forum is still only the tip of the iceberg) – and they will have to ask forgiveness of the Body of Christ. Some there would rather die than do that. And they will hide behind their lawyers’ advice not to admit to anything, for fear of opening themselves up to endless lawsuits.
Yet it is the only way. Abused members of other residential communities – in Ann Arbor, South Bend, Steubenville, Gaithersburg, and elsewhere – had recourse to a Bishop. (When we read the devastating accounts, they had an ominously familiar ring.) Some of those communities are currently in the process of reconciliation and rehabilitation, and some will make it, because the Holy Spirit is now leading all their members, and they have learned never to let power devolve into the hands of one person.
The sole reason the CofJ has survived this long in its present form is because there has been no higher ecclesiastical authority to appeal to. But there is the Highest Authority. This is His time, this forum is His method, and prayer is the weapon He’s given us.
So – we can pray that Satan be exposed and revealed. That the principality ruling over that place be overturned. That no lasting harm befall any of those we love. And that once again the Community that bears His Son’s name will reflect His Son’s love. |
pandersen
Junior Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 8:48 am: |
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You're living in an ivory tower, David Manuel, oblivious to the heinous child abuse that has been endemic at the CJ for decades. You didn't spend a nightmarish childhood there. You were the celebrity author. You do a great disservice to those who have been tormented by Cay And Judy and their minions.
Leviathan? He's still got his talons in you.
Peter Andersen |
exmonk
Member
Username: exmonk
Post Number: 62
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.163.55.194
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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Awakening,
Thanks for your interesting take on the situation at the community. I agree with some of the things you said. However this "Leviathan" concept is new to me and I don't really agree with it. I think corrupt human nature is more to blame. With Pandersens point about child abuse being a very important issue. Like the Roman Catholic Church whose Bishops around this country covered for numerous priests who commited sexual child abuse, and obviously thought they could get away with it whether due to their place in the church or power over their congregations. I don't think a spirit duped the church into these heinous acts. I think it is much more simple than that. Corrupt human nature. We can spend hours debating on these spiritual wars, theology, pricipalities and so on. I say lets just bing all this down to earth rather than claiming to be "pawns of the Gods". I think it all should start with the children anyway. There are hundreds of post here on factnet of people who have been struggling to make sense of their lives because either CofJ, or GCC intefered with parent/child relationships. Family relationships are the bases of child formation. Any community that intefreres with that is a cult in my book. The day someone starts to make a move on my (future) childs relationship with us (his/her) parents, will be the day they will think I am the "Leviathan" to put it mildly. Having lived in the environment at GCC, then at the CofJ, I can assure you that I will do everything necessary to shield my kids from the evil that Christ himself warned about. I will personally provide the millstones. |
blindcomposure
New member
Username: blindcomposure
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.7.38.196
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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Perhaps, as I have stated before, it is my proximity to the issue keeps me from being able to accept some of what you say. I can't accept the idea that there is some "Leviathan" holding my family and the people I love most "in thrall" if you will. Frankly, I believe that it takes a certain type of person to live in the Community of Jesus and quite simply, I am not that type of person. So I am not there an more. The only thing, in my mind, holding people at the Community is their own individual inablility to realize how dependent they are on it. I was beginning to see how much of my life I depended on the Community and the people around me for validity. I can't say that it was the Community's fault for all of that, but it provided something for me to blame me hardships on. And as such, I prevented myself from growing up. Now that I am outside the community, on my own, I am beginning to realize how much of problem this has caused in my own life. I thank God FOR the community and what it has taught me, but I also equally thank Him for the chance I have to prove myself TO myself. And that's another part of my leaving entirely. |
laetamini
Junior Member
Username: laetamini
Post Number: 44
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 65.35.173.30
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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BC,
I agree. I also think these are great insights. |
beyondfear
New member
Username: beyondfear
Post Number: 25
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.119.152
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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Hi Awakening,
Glad you've joined us again. It's interesting to see things from your perspective. For me, I'm more in line with exmonk's perspective - that, very simply, the problems in the community stem from human nature. When someone has unlimited power, as Betty does, it can very easily morph into something harmful. We all know this - the history books tell us this again and again: absolute power corrupts absolutely. The weak, or the weaker, are the those who suffer, while the powerful enjoy the benefits that come with their exalted status - money, adoration, unquestioned obedience on the part of those below them. I think it has very little to do with "principalities and powers" - actually, I think it has nothing to do with it. From the reading that I have done over the years, I have to my own understanding about mind control, and in fact the idea of demons or evil spirits taking over the community is another form of denial, in my mind. It allows us to say that we were not responsible for what happened at the community, for what we took part in, that our silence when we witnessed abuse came only from Satan’s grip over our minds, that he prevented us from speaking. But I think that for those who suffered the terrible crime of child abuse, and for those who suffered the more insidious psychological and emotional abuse in the name of Truth, that the Leviathan argument only contributes to the pain. It makes us feel that we have no power, no control over the things that have happened there, that are happening now. Let’s take the example of the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church that has been coming to light over the past few years – do we say that those priests were not at fault because the devil had a grip over their minds and loins? This argument really can’t hold water because it leaves out entirely the idea of personal responsibility. And all of us, even the most victimized, contributed in some way to the abuse of that place – through our silence, through the silencing of our inner voices and wills because it was easier to follow, to obey than it was to stand up and shout from the rooftops that the many illegal and immoral acts that were being committed had to stop. |
beyondfear
Junior Member
Username: beyondfear
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.119.152
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:26 pm: |
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Part II
The only reason that people like Betty have power is that we, as a group, gave that power to her. She cannot exist without the community, and I doubt the community can exist without her or without those like her – the men and, especially in the community’s case, the women to whom we cede our wills, our lives unquestioningly. That kind of exchange of power – the giving and the taking – is not about Satanic powers. It’s about human nature and our desire to be led, to be freed from the frightening responsibilities of living in the world. It’s about the leaders of the world, like Betty, who find themselves in positions of power and suddenly realize how enjoyable that power is, who begin to rein in their followers tighter and tighter so as to hold on to their exalted position. Look at Napolean, look at Hilter, look at Stalin, look at David Koresh and Jim Jones – what do they all have in common? Perhaps mental illness for one, but even more, a hunger for control, supremacy, domination, and the intractable belief that they were right. But then look at Ghandi and Martin Luther King – there are far fewer examples of those who found themselves in positions of power and who did not abuse this power, but rather used their leadership abilities to create radical social change. But they do exist. Let us strive to seek out these leaders, and let us refuse to yield to the ease of excuses and simplistic explanations. The world is far more murky and inscrutable than we care to acknowledge. But if we choose to remain rooted in the complexities and mysteries of life, we dwell in the arena of truth – not because we have found the answers, but because we seek them.
I know, Awakening, that you believe strongly in your explanation of Leviathan, but I encourage you to look at this other side of the coin, to ask yourself if any of it rings true for you. It may not, but at least you have opened up a dialogue, and for that I am grateful.
Beyondfear |
beyondfear
Junior Member
Username: beyondfear
Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.119.152
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:38 pm: |
|
Panderson - I need to say that I think your tone here is unhelpful and counter-productive. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, but if we allow ourselves to respond with contempt and judgment, we have failed in our efforts to come together and create a place where we can openly discuss our experiences and views. I would ask that you try to temper your remarks and to be aware of your tone. In addition, naming names is unacceptable on this forum. We have no way of confirming Awakening's identity, and even if we can, this place is meant for anonymous dialogue in the hopes that we can find support and healing without needing to reveal who were are if we choose not to. Clearly Awakening is struggling with his years at the community - there is no reason to further those wounds by creating an unwelcome atmosphere here. |
questiongrrl
New member
Username: questiongrrl
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.230.34.120
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 4:09 pm: |
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Re: Awakening Part I
Thank you for your very interesting explanation, awakening. While I cannot agree with much of it, I enjoyed reading it.
I disagree with your reasoning about the distinction between a Jonestown and the CoJ. While I agree that there are many important differences between the CoJ and other destructive cults (famour or otherwise) the similarities probably outweigh them. Moreover, I have been told on more than one occasion by 'experts' in this area that many high-demand groups (or cults) target and appeal to well-educated and/or talented people. The idea that only an 'idiot' would join a group like this, is a misinformed stereotype. Unfortunately, the high levels of experience, education, and money(!!) at the CoJ do not make it less cult-ish.
I DO NOT think that the CoJ is just another Jonestown, or that it is heading in that direction. I do think that we often are so taken in by the so-called uniqueness and specialness of the CoJ that even after leaving, we cannot imagine an explanation that doesn't somehow give credence to this.
P.S. Why are the young people not encouraged to achieve some of this education and professional development? |
cryfreedom
New member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 6:45 pm: |
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Re: Awakening IV
It is obvious that you still have a deep love for some people at the CJ(I'm sure some understand that and can relate). However, we can NOT continue to give them excuses for the abuse and emotional scars that haunt many who have left. By excepting your Leviathan thread of thought you say this would "absolve our loved ones from complicit responsibility." Absurd, they MUST take responsibility! MB enjoys her power too much to realize how much she is hurting those "below her". She will continue to reign on high because members allow her this unhealthy control. AWAKENING, possibly you can think of those who have shared their abuse and lets not belittle it by making excuses!! |
exmonk
Member
Username: exmonk
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.163.55.194
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 7:52 pm: |
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Well said Cryfreedom! I second, third and fourth that. |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 81.79.36.242
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 6:18 am: |
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Awakening, first of all good user name! Let's hope we're all awakening to greater freedom, life and truth. I thought your insight into the early days of the community was very intriguing. Those of us from GCC who came to live in regularly were really awed at the talent. But I think questiongirl and cryfreedom both have good points. It seems that there is an emotional desire for dependence that can be deep-seated in people of whatever skill or expertise or intelligence. The art and music at the C of J really are awesome. But must they be accompanied by the severely authoritarian regime? There's been awesome Christian art in many cultures and times, and perhaps in it all there was an element of suffering and dying to self, but, as you yourself have commented, some aspects of the way the Christian life was and is lived out scream out for reform. Where is compassion? Where is the protection and tenderness towards others? Why are families separated as a matter of course instead of in an extremely occasional emergency? |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 7:44 am: |
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Thanks, all of you, for your input. Seeing what I wrote through your eyes, parts of it were glib and presumptuous, parts were uninformed, and a lot was insensitive to what you and others have gone through. Please forgive me. I won’t back down on the principality thing, because I believe it’s at the core of what went wrong. But it does not excuse anything. We’re still accountable for what we did and allowed to continue. The Nuremburg excuse – “I was only following orders” – holds no more water now than it did then. None of us should have remained silent. But I won’t mention Leviathan again.
Panderson, I respect what you went through, and you provide a perspective that no one else can. Occasionally I saw Mother Cay’s dark side, but only occasionally. More often I saw the good that came out of her. And there was good. Many lives (mine included) were transformed for the better, because of their teaching in the early years, or God would never have blessed and favored that place, as He did.
Exmonk, you’ve gained a lot of wisdom since you left. (You probably always had it, but I didn’t appreciate it – sorry about that.) I agree we should bring it all down to earth and start with the children, because that’s where the most harm has been done. As you say, family relationships are the basis of child formation. And anything that deliberately sets out to break down the parent/child relationship is evil. A cult thrives on control; in its eyes, anything that threatens that control must be destroyed, beginning with the family unit. The CofJ was – and remains – a cult. We used to joke about that. “If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and waddles like a duck, chances are. . . .” What’s not so funny – what’s tragic, in fact – is that knowing how many cultish aspects there were in our life, we just kept on keeping on.
Beyondfear, you’re right; power is the most addictive narcotic known to man, and hardly any leader, no matter how good or noble their initial intent, can withstand its allure. To Ghandi and MLK, I would add GW. They wanted to make him king. He forswore it, stepping down after two terms (and setting that precedent), because the people would have gone on re-electing him till he died. William Bradford insisted that Plimoth hold annual elections and five times simply refused to allow them to re-elect him. Also, thanks for your kindness. Without it, I wouldn’t have had the courage to come back on here. And it does take courage. There’s considerable bravery behind each person’s first posting. So any ex-CofJ or GCC reading all this and wondering if you should add your voice, do it. You’ll be glad you did. You’ll get help in a hurry – maybe a little more than you bargained for, but it’s all good. This is God’s forum; no one else’s. He’s here. It’s His thing and His timing. So all are welcome, and all are safe.
Questiongrrl, I was wrong to say we were not like Jonestown. You’re right; the similarities far outweigh any surface differences. Those people really believed that Jim Jones spoke for God. We really believed that the Mothers did. That was the bottom line we returned to, whenever we got nudges that what was happening was wrong – way wrong. If it came from the Study or Bethany, it must be God. So it doesn’t matter how talented or how smart you are, or what you might have accomplished in the world; you’re just as susceptible as the next person.
Cryfreedom, I’m sorry. I should have seen that I was belittling the abuse that was done, and attempting to excuse those I love. Of course they must take responsibility! And it’s still happening on their watch.
Exgcc, Until you said it, I never saw the deep-seated emotional desire for dependence. Quite an insight. And you’ve said the most important thing of any of us: other than His name being on the board out in front, where is Jesus in the treatment being meted out? Would He treat His people this way? |
questiongrrl
New member
Username: questiongrrl
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.230.52.219
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 8:40 am: |
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awakening,
thank you very much for your thoughtful responses to others (myself included) on this forum. it is very encouraging to me that we can have a thoughtful discussion here, and agree to disagree when necessary. i hope that each poster feels welcome to contribute in their own way. when this happens, the interaction on the form becomes very different than at the coj or gcc.
i tend to get a little nervous about disagreeing outright with someone (probably not surprising). but i hope that we can all continue to respect each other's opinions and experiences.
again, thanks for the responses. |
cryfreedom
New member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 9:15 am: |
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awakening,
I also thank you for your personal responses to many of us. I was afraid that you would have been scared off yesterday. So glad to see you back on this morning. As you so well said "all are welcome and all are safe". There is of course no reason that we should not all be safe because we are plainly speaking the truth and helping each other by sharing. Lets continue to respect each other while questioning, learining and sharing! } |
pandersen
Junior Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 42
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 6:24 pm: |
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Awakening, thank you for your gracious response to my angry posting. I'm glad to know you're back.
Your first post triggered something really deep in me. I'm not sure I'm sorry for what I wrote, but I am glad to see you're back. |
exmonk
Member
Username: exmonk
Post Number: 64
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.163.55.194
| | Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 9:31 pm: |
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Thanks for your kind words Awakening. I think the freedom we enjoy expressing our thoughts and cares here is very liberating. Not having to fear reprisals for expressing our concerns is something I wish would could happen at the CofJ. Perhaps reforms in the near future will make Rock Harbor a less controlled cult like environment. My best wishes and God's blessings be with you in your pursuits and work.
PS. 25 miles this AM
E. |
awakening
New member
Username: awakening
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.34.27.78
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 7:00 am: |
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Again, many thanks – to each and all of you. I questioned how much time I was spending on all of this. It easily becomes one’s whole world. But I realized how much every minute was speeding up my own healing process. This forum is a virtual support group. “Shipwrecks by the side of the road” was how someone else described those who have come out of abusive enclosed societies and found themselves incapable of making basic decisions. Everything had always been decided for them. I met one (not ex-CofJ or GCC) recently. They could barely function. It was tragic. We need each other, and we need this forum. But we’re all going to make it, and God will use what we’ve been through. |
pandersen
Junior Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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"Many lives (mine included) were transformed for the better, because of their teaching in the early years,"
Awakening, I was still praising the Sisters of Mary for a long time after I left. It took me (and my dear wife Charlene) a fair bit of time to get a sober perspective on something that consumed so many years of our lives.
"or God would never have blessed and favored that place, as He did."
I'm sure the House of Saudi perceives themselves that way, too. It's erroneous to equate financial prosperity with God's blessing.
I've "met" some beautiful souls of late through FactNet, and with whom we've connected in part through my wife's testimony on the Internet. I see "God's blessing" in the beauty of their compassion and their thirst for righteousness even though some of them are financially destitute and are unable to even believe in God because of the grotesque caricature of God they saw at the CoJ.
On the other hand, I see from your web site, awakening, that you continue to profit financially from your association with the CoJ. I'll believe you have "left" when you use your literary skills and take the risk to write the definitive exposé of the CJ.
Also, I don't think anything pains me as deeply as that you have brought something as holy and beautiful as Medjugorie into association with something so vulgar by publishing about Medjugorie in P. Press.
I hope you have had the integrity to let WW and RK know about what really goes on there.
Peter |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 710
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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Hi there everybody,
I've kind of wanted to stay out of this whole thing, but I think I might chime in with my two cents at this time.
pandersen, you have contributed so much to this board with your knowledge and insight as to the beginnings of coj and the person your mother really was. I understand the intensity of emotion you must be feeling at this time with all that has been revealed to us all. Our exchanges over the past few weeks have been healing, but also painful as the truth has been revealed.
Although anyone could probobly figure out who I am if they really wanted to, I enjoy the fact that I can post here with at least some semblance of anonimity, and I think its just kind of internet courtesy not to say someones name unless they said it themselves. That said, I guess people will do what they do, but I hope if i tick someone off they will just let me know.
Awakening, you gave me my first camera. (if you are who i think). That camera gave me something to do while I was at grenville, so thank you for that. I most certainly dont agree with alot in your post, as I am one of those that panderson refers to as financially destitute and not believing in god. But not believing in god really isnt a bad thing as some might think. It has given me the ability to stop wrestling with trying to understand how i could have suffered so much in a place that was supposed to be so holy and ordained by said god. I now realize it was people caught up in thier own personal power struggles. I no longer have to suffer with the guilt that i was somehow born bad.
Anyways, i know blindcomposure started this thread with the hope some of us would share our stories, and I would love to read some more of your stories as well.
Thats all for me now ~ DT  |
expathmember
New member
Username: expathmember
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 162.83.52.65
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 6:55 pm: |
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Exgcc, I don't agree about the "deep-seated emotional desire for dependence" that you state that you think some people have. I think, in the case of abusive groups, that this is quite often something generated by the group- and by the leadership- because how can you have a group without enough people who believe as you do, and how can you be a leader if you have no followers??
I think the leaders do this by setting themselves up as "God's annointed," telling you how dreadful things are happening or are going to happen, and how you'll fall apart without them (we were told we needed to go through "healings from the past" or we wouldn't be able to hear from God as we went through the perilous last days).
Deception, dread, and debilitation equals and induces dependency. |
potsinkoften
New member
Username: potsinkoften
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 7:09 pm: |
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expath---I think exgcc was saying that in these cult groups there is an "emotional desire for dependence" and I have to agree with him. But like you said this dependency is probably generated by the leader. The "followers" have to turn to the leader for EVERYTHING(right down to permission if their child can take ballet lessons)so of course they become so dependent. It is almost commical to think about the things you all probably had to "run by" MB. CRAZY, EH!!I rememeber when I was a Novice I had gone into town to make some needed purchase with some Sisters. I was eating a chocolate bar on the car ride back and I got in big •••• for not asking permission to buy it. Now that is a VERY simple thing but I was furious and thought WHAT THE HELL!!??? Sorry I tend to go all over the place when I post. But just wanted to point out that the overbearing control that so many of us experienced is what often causes the desire for dependence. } |
dozerman
New member
Username: dozerman
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 67.177.253.18
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 9:57 pm: |
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Hi Everyone -
I'm new here - this will be my first posting, but I have to say that I'm excited and terrified at the same time. Since I have left the comm, 5 years ago, I have gone through a lot in my life just adjusting to life in the "real" world. You know I always used to joke about the "real" world and now it's no longer a joke. I'm living it. Anyhow - I have been reading a lot of the posts since being introduced to them by a good friend and I have to say that a lot has been stirred up in my life. I have managed to push so much down and forget about so much that in some ways i'm amazed that i'm still functioning. I was moved to the Community when I was 14, but was pre-pared if you will by Bill and Carol back in Rochester, remember 3D and all that. Well, I was really looking forward to wearing blue jeans and dating and all that normal stuff that my wife's (and my) boys do now, but than my folks informed my sister and i that we were moving to the comm. Wow, great news. Couldn't have a summer job, date, no blue jeans - what could be worse - oh, how about instead of working for the summer - you got to work with the brothers instead. enough said, 20 years later i'm still upset about it. what i've seen since leaving is how damaging it was to me to have been immersed in this "good" habit forming behaviour in my late teens that really backfired. i only had to deal with all the hormones and stuff that comes with any guy in my later years. i really have come to believe that the best way to deal with kids is to just let them be &^%& &^^ kids!! they are going to get in trouble, they are going to mess up, but be there to help them learn from their mistakes. i have to say the community has got this one way wrong...anyhow that kind of messed me up for a little bit in my late 20's and early 30's and i hid behind all my responsibilities as a brother (and what someone said about betty giving you lots of responsibility and then watch out in 4 years or so is totally right on) i was one of the youngest brothers to be on the first council and i realized that responsbility can equal power which equals being needed which equals "wow, i'm IN", needless to say that only lasted into my 30's until I woke up one morning realizing that I couldn't honestly live my life for the next 50 years and so after months of prayer and having people tell me i couldn't survive in the "real" world i left, with $50 that they gave me to get started - I laughed at them, I said after 20 years of my life here this is how you say good-bye? I had half a mind to give the money back to them, but honestly I really needed it - so now here I am after a lot of counseling and after meeting my beautiful wife, 3 years of marriage and 5 years of having to think about things, I know there is still a lot to deal with and hopefully this board will help, but just having a group like this, makes me feel like I"m not alone. That was the hardest thing to deal with after leaving....
So Peace and Love to all
Dozerman |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 195.147.141.13
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:08 am: |
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Expath, I agree that the leadership has to create a body of dependents around them. I do think, though, that most adults who end up falling into line with that kind of thinking, start from some sense of inadequacy or failure. I joined as an adult, and most of my colleagues came in the desire to serve God in a deeper way. And some were that self-confident sort that needed to be broken down and reformed into dependents. But most of us really came feeling glad to have someone else take care of them, make all those hard decisions, broker the truth, etc. I actually don't think we're disagreeing--just looking at the same issue from two different sides! Either way, you end up in a living hell, and have to crawl your way out!
Dreamtruth and others, I agree that you can't tell whether God is blessing by looking at how rich, numerous and successful a venture is. Let's just think about what we know of Jesus and his earthly family! |
expathmember
New member
Username: expathmember
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 162.83.33.249
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:28 am: |
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Exgcc, & potsinkoften, I agree that of dependent people exist in abusive groups, but, to clarify, I think it is indeed leadership generated, and/or leadership exaggerated.
I wonder, Exgcc, if you were really, when you entered, starting from such a huge sense of failure and inadequacy, or if interaction with the group didn't make you feel that way, or more that way, then, and in retrospect? Not just you, but me, and others??
I think abusive groups take normal human needs and normal human situations, and capitalize on them for their own ends. |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 713
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:37 am: |
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hi exdozerman and welcome to our little party!
thanks for sharing your story, you really have some good insight. I agree especially with what you say about kids...let them be kids!!!!
expath and and exgcc, i have had this same discrepancy - it is really hard as a 2nd generation member who grew up to understand why someone would join a group like this....perhaps we should start another thread for this topic?? |
potsinkoften
New member
Username: potsinkoften
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:28 am: |
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YES AN INTERESTING TOPIC----WHY WOULD SOMEONE JOIN A GROUP LIKE THIS??
We might have to go WAY back to answer that quesiton. I would find it VERY hard to understand why someone would join now especially if they knew what was going on there. I know that some GCC members joined when it first opened just to get the place going and went there for a specific job. I really don't think some of them realized what they were getting themselves into. I can't really answer for those older members as I was just a 2 year old brat when we arrived at GCC. But I think as the years went on that is when that dependency grew!! They were there working their butts off with a very low income and some felt like there was no way out. I KNOW SOME OF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. Anyways, I could go on but I have to dash. Those were just some quick thoughts. |
bluesman
New member
Username: bluesman
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.39.216.235
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:28 am: |
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Just chiming in on the "emotional dependency" theme... And I do think it would be a great new thread, dreamtruth, about why adults joined. But when I get stuck in some way of acting or thinking now, my wife usually points out that I wasn't like this before gcc. We were about 28 when we moved there. I have a boatload of family history (including emotional illness and alcohol abuse), but I think I was surprisingly normal for all that. I guess you could make the argument that all these things were lurking beneath the surface waiting to be exploited. But it's strange that I was almost in my 30's before that happened if that's the case.
I really haven't figured it all out yet. But I do think that expathmember has a really good point. We've done enough beating ourselves up for staying as long as we did and not seeing things sooner, without compounding it by making our own need for emotional dependency the main cause. To me, it sounds a lot like all that cj teaching that said that whatever bad happened in your life was caused by some "sin" in your life.
Hate to use this analogy, but I really think that it's like the frog in the increasingly warm water. By the time you realize what's going on, you're frog soup! If anybody had said to us, "Hey, wanna join an abusive cult, be ruined financially, emotionally crippled, and have your kids taken away from you while working 80 hours a week for slave wages?" we wouldn't have said, "Sure! Where do I sign up?" It's way more subtle than that, and I think a large part of it does go back to manipulation by the leaders.
One thing researchers learned when they studied brainwashing during wartime is that the "strongest" people will eventually be broken down, given the right circumstances.
My .02 at this point. |
beyondfear
Junior Member
Username: beyondfear
Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.119.152
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
|
Yes, bluesman - you're right about the strongest people being broken down eventually, and in fact there's a lot of evidence that those who resist the most and the longest very often become the most hardcore in their support of the organization. If anyone wants to read more about this, I would suggest reading Denise Winn's The Manipulated Mind - it's an incredibly informative and historically accurate look at coercive techniques and how they can be applied to all different kinds of groups. |
expathmember
New member
Username: expathmember
Post Number: 17
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 162.83.33.249
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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Psychologist Margaret Singer - who helped many former cult members, said that this constant belittling of oneself, that bluesman mentions, is a cult member characteristic- and it was good to try to get over this afterwards (well, of course!).
potsinkoften, I partly answered why/how someone would join in the new thread, as per DT's request... |
cryfreedom
New member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 5:13 pm: |
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Thankyou Expath for your insights. I am quite guilty of this belittling issue. My husband is constantly telling me NOT to put myself down so much. And the funny thing is that I don't even realize I do it. It is not something that I am consciously doing----not like we want to trash ourselves.  But it is something I need to work on! |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 195.147.141.13
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 6:58 am: |
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Agree, agree, agree, cryfreedom, and my husband says the same thing to me! I will, I promise, try to get my head around myself as a 25 year old joining an abusive cult, and post what I can make out of why I did it. No time right now! |
b1acksheep
New member
Username: b1acksheep
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 65.182.19.212
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 2:20 am: |
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Hi Everyone! I was tipped off to this url by a friend who I only recently became reaquinted with through MySpace. Google mining will turn up the most interesting things! Having read the entire site I am positively shaken to the core. The amount of information, pain, wisdom, care, and fear that everyone has exibited is both, humbling, empowering, and saddening. Here is my story, its a sad one, but aren't they all?
A DISCLAIMER: I know what I am about to write is going sicken, horrify, and anger some members of this board who have remained devout Christians and solid citizens. That being said, it should not be ignored that many ex-community kids have developed substance abuse problems in their quest to resolve the deep psychic wounds inflicted in their childhoods.
I was born into the community in 1978. My parents were of little means and my grandmother had already fallen from grace with mothers. My father (a reformed gangster) was an outspoken, angry man who loves my timid mother with all his heart. It is safe to say that our family was the blacksheep of the community and a favorite target for much persecution. To make matters worse I was a very disobiedient, rebellious child. This only brought more shame and persecution upon my family.
I have to say from my earliest memories I knew that the community was not the place for me. My questioning of authority from a very early age led me into an endless cycle of trouble for both myself and my parents. I just couldn't do anything right. This made me the centerpiece of most every light group hell storm; except if my best friend was attracting some of the spotlight. I could never figure out why it was so noble to rat your friends out. Notwithstanding I admit to having behavioural issues that continued when I was shipped off the Grenhell for 7th grade. I ruined my brothers senior year and was expelled 3 times. Finally landing myself back on the Cape for grades 11 and 12. Well, public school offered me so many things that I was told were bad, it was not long before I was sneaking out to keg parties at night and attending Bible studies early Saturday mornings. The summer of my senior year, all the boys were coralled into Jordan for some dirivitive of Boys Club. Well, me and another guy got caught smoking cigarettes. I knew the ax was going to fall the next day and that I would be moved back into my parents house for the summer, ostracized from the rest of my friends. The shame of this just did not seem worth it; so I packed a bag and slipped out the back door right as Chris Kanaga and Paul Moore were walking in the front. I ran like crazy for my freedom, through woods and marshes until I encoutered some classmates. People took me in and I enjoyed a splendid summer in East Orleans where I was soon joined by my best friend.
In my rush to experience everything that was forbidden I quickly encountered drugs, alcohal, and sex. I spent my senior year in Brewster and began experimenting with harder drugs. I had also discovered the East Coast Rave scene of 1996; gigantic and uncontrolled by law enforcement. In our zeal to experience life, we embrassed the hedonistic lifestyle of the interstate, underground, warehouse party scene. House music was my life.
I then moved to TX to pursue a degree from UT (hook 'em!!) but my rampant partying derailed any aspiration of this. With no financial backing I soon found myself back on the Cape, a recovering drug addict at the tender age of 19. Resolved to give it another shot I worked for 6 months and moved back to Austin where I did the same things all over again and failed out fo school. There would be no return to the Cape this time. I spent the next 6 yrs becoming a successful party/club promoter putting Austin, TX on the House music map. I also did many illegal things and became more and more addicted to drugs, partying, and diverse vices.
(Message edited by b1acksheep on June 15, 2006) |
b1acksheep
New member
Username: b1acksheep
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 65.182.19.212
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 2:21 am: |
|
THE REST OF POST:
I could see the writing on the wall. This lifestyle was a oneway ticket to jail or worse. I fled everything giving up my fame, money and the only woman I have ever loved. I moved to two larger cities in the next 6 months, settling in Houston. By luck, I ended up working for an oil company, all the while slowly becoming addicted to methamphentymines. 2 yrs later I was eventually let go by my employers but received a generous severance. Knowing my life would be over soon, that death was imminent, I fled to Costa Rica to escape my addiction.
So here I am. No hope in the world, an ex-pat who wasted his bright future. Could I blame the community for everything? I could, but then the 10 years I have spent resolving my anger against it would be for naught.
My life has been a study in failure and survival. Do I believe in God? Absolutely not! Nor love, or family. What I have become is a callous, amoral, shell of a man; albeit honorable and truthful. Where is there any hope? Only in the fact that I refuse to give up. |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 720
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 7:00 am: |
|
Hi blacksheep. Thank you so much for telling all that. My story of what happened to me after leaving is not much different than yours. Sometimes I wonder 'why am i still alive?' because I really shouldnt be. I just got clean about 9 months ago but am still living in a sober house right now, and i feel for your pain. Not sure what else to wright right now, but I just wanted to respond something.
I love ya bro. And I'll never forget when you asked me if I shaved my legs when you were only 8 years old, shocked the crap out of me.
(Message edited by dream_truth on June 15, 2006) |
beyondfear
Junior Member
Username: beyondfear
Post Number: 31
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.119.152
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 7:29 am: |
|
Blacksheep,
You're incredibly brave to write your story here. Thank you so much for sharing what's happened to you. How are you on your journey of recovery? It's a painful one that I know a lot about - not personally, but from very good friends. My heart goes out to you. I'm so glad you found us.
Love,
Beyondfear |
questiongrrl
New member
Username: questiongrrl
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.230.34.40
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 8:44 am: |
|
blacksheep,
thank you so very much for sharing your story. i am sorry for all the pain that you (and many of us) have lived through on our way 'out'. if anyone is 'sickened' or 'horrified' by what you wrote, i would challenge them to re-examine the situation. i remember you from your 'grenhell' days. please stay in touch...you are very welcome here.
-QG |
pandersen
Junior Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 9:03 am: |
|
Hello, b1acksheep, welcome to the fold! Your story is very moving. Honorable and truthful. Doesn't sound like someone who is callous nor hollow to me. Thanks for sharing.
You don't believe in the hideous invisible Creature who performed hokey blueberry-bush miracles and whose name was invoked by CJ leaders to justify their behaviour? Me neither.
No, we can't blame C&J and the CJ for all our problems. Blame was Cay's game, for all her ills. But there is a place for a just rage against all that Place stands for.
You're in good company here. We're all still sorting out each in our own way the years of despair and pain. (I know few of the good folks on this board personally but I think I've managed at some point to offend just about everybody with my rants.) I'm working on repenting of that as well. :o)
It's a good place to hang out. You'll find understanding and affirmation and a sense of camaraderie only excojs can know.
My wife and I have managed to disavow the Hideous One and have found a very different Person who is loving, forgiving and compassionate.
Don't give up on yourself, blacksheep; your resiliency after all you've been through testifies to great hope and a future. You can be an encouragement to others.
Ciao!
Peter A. |
cryfreedom
New member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Welcome blacksheep!! What an extremely honest and moving story you have shared with us. Your last sentence hit me the most:"Only in the fact that I refuse to give up." Thus showing that even though you have been through years of hell you are willing to hang in there and find the light at the end of the tunnel. WAY TO GO!! I was sad to hear that another CofJ child had ended up going through •••• at Grenhell(love that, by the way---so true)!!
I hope this board of some fellow blacksheep can help as we all continue to share and learn together. Cheers |
exgcc
New member
Username: exgcc
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 84.68.25.185
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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I was so moved by what you wrote, blacksheep. There is much the 'white' sheep have to take responsibility for,in forcing you into leaving the way you left, and eventually following the road you did. There is so much good in you and you have so many gifts. Thank you for trusting your story to us. |
bluesman
New member
Username: bluesman
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.39.216.235
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 6:22 am: |
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Hey blacksheep,
You hang in there. The fact that you've made it this far speaks to your resilience. And finding this board and some of these friends could help you sort out all kinds of things from your past. You will definitely be among people who understand, believe me! (my screen name is partly in honor of SRV... there's floodin' down in Texas... I know you'll understand)
Love and peace.
(Message edited by bluesman on June 16, 2006) |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 768
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
|
I just feel like getting something off my chest. I was heartened a lot by blacksheeps post, seeing that there is another that has had similar experiences as I. I am also very saddened by it, knowing that hollow empty feeling. I too can never give up.
In the past few weeks I have been contacted by several individuals that are upset and appalled that I openly state that I do not believe in god or religeon any more.
I would like to explain this a little. How could I believe in a god which left us children at the hands of abusers, did nothing to protect us, did not answer our prayers, yet answered the prayers of the power hungry individuals who left us to suffer? This god showed no mercy. I did believe in it for quite sometime, and spent a great deal of time angry at a god who chose to ignore me, leave me alone in the world with no family, and caused me to suffer. My life was a result of my parents following religion.
It has helped me greatly to let go of anger by realizing there just isnt a god. My parents were sadly deluded, and taken advantage of by women who used the idea of god to control them. I was praying to nothing, which is why my prayers were never answered.
What we have in this life is our family. Unfortunately, many of us were robbed of our family, and left destitute and alone. I cannot help but blame religion for making me an orphan. |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 52
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:26 pm: |
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Dear dream truth,
I am sorry to learn that you have been reproached by someone who is upset by your stating that you do not believe in God. I hope none of my postings made you feel that way.
You've been through the horrible inner depths of despair that result from abuse perpetrated in God's name. It aches when I read your words. No glib cliches can alleviate the awful experiences you had.
If it's any comfort, from one orphan to another, there is one 3000 miles away who cares and is deeply pained by what you've been through.
You display more personal integrity and human dignity than all those cweepy cwistian look-alikes at "the Harbor."
Thanks for your willingness to keep on sharing your feelings.
Peter |
b1acksheep
New member
Username: b1acksheep
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 205.211.239.11
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
|
Thank you for the outpouring of kindness from everyone who read my story! I truly appreciate it and wish y'all the best. |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 770
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 72.224.167.182
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
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you too. i sent you an email drop me a line if you ever want to talk. |
bluesman
New member
Username: bluesman
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.39.216.235
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
|
I can certainly relate to dream_truth's disbelief in God. I feel very much the same way.
But here's my question: how is it that both cj and grenville, supposed upholders of the highest standard of faith, have caused so many to doubt the very existence of the God they professed to serve? And those who still retain faith, battle to do so in spite of the destruction they experienced in both places? |
questiongrrl
New member
Username: questiongrrl
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.230.88.177
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 6:44 pm: |
|
DT - me too me too. i don't know what i believe and frankly since i left gcc *shudder* it doesn't seem that important. i'm sure this would serve as proof of something horrible about me to those still there... but... i'm much happier this way. i've done enough agonizing over these things to take a break. why would i ever want to involve myself with a religion/god who allowed these things to happen to me and others? moreover, if god does exist and care (etc), surely he'd have shut gcc/coj down by now in order to prevent further suffering and abuse! i don't know... |
expathmember
New member
Username: expathmember
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 72.66.139.24
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
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You know, I'm w/ Pandersen on this- I just ache so much for all of you who were raised there- where I bet they never quoted the scripture about it being better to have a millstone tied around your neck, & be thrown in the sea, than to harm a little child. I am so sorry. |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 771
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 72.224.167.182
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 7:56 pm: |
|
hey pandersen, nothing you have said has offended me at all, i just wanted to give a little explanation for why i feel the way i do, for anyone who might not understand. i am quite content with my beliefs at the momment, and have finally found some peace of mind. thank you for saying you care, and i know you mean it. i am sure you do understand.
and thanks, everyone for expressing understanding. |
samham
New member
Username: samham
Post Number: 17
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 199.232.151.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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I was reading everyones posts and to tell you the truth, I don't know what to believe. Why do we have to believe in A "god". Wasn't the very appearance of "god" created by man, who came up with the white male, with the long flowing white beard in the white robe stereotype? Wasn't it man that created the various fractures in religion? Wasn't it man that wrote down the "word of god" using their own perceptions and interpretations? I think I use phrases like "thank God" and others similar to that because it's automatic. I think I believe in something, but I am beginning to believe more in my own power to guide and change things in my life. I want to count for something, I want to make a difference and bring comfort to people, even if it's to only one poor soul. What I do take issue with is that religion of any kind (particularly the COJ) puts so much emphasis and importance on coming to a building to worship. Why do I have to go to Church? Why can't I worship God in my own way, through art, music, or just standing in my kitchen, drinking a cup of tea and doing some silent meditation? Why doesn't worshipping God include sharing some special time with my son, or laughing with friends, or playing at the beach? Why can't we, through our actions, worship God? Doesn't it count, in the middle of the night, when I'm in the back of the rescue, holding the hand of someone who is in crisis and pain? I'm sorry -- I'm getting a little long-winded here, but I think these questions need to be asked. |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
|
Thank you, samham, for your thoughtful and passionate posting. You are absolutely right. Your actions of mercy, holding the hand of someone in pain and crisis, drinking a cup of tea - drinking Starbucks doesn't count :o) - and all the things you describe are ways can honor our Creator. You're fortunate (as am I) to be in a profession where you can make that kind of a difference in someone else's life in a very direct manner.
If you read some of the writings of Mother Theresa of Calcutta, you will see that she was also that kind of person. Mother Theresa not only understood her work and ministry as being done in the Name of Christ, but she realized that she was ministering to Christ Himself in the person of those who are suffering an dying.
I still struggle greatly with the abuses of power I see in our own church as well as in other denominations. In fact it makes me furious to read about the sex abuse scandals and the lack of decisive action or even the cover-ups that went on.
And yet, as in so many other areas of life, we need the "institutional" structure of families, nations, hospital and health care facilities. There certainly is abuse of power in all of these, not just in the church. I'll bet that's even possible in the good ol' Brewster Fire Department (though not likely).
I see it in big and small ways in our little residential care hospital. It's human nature to want to "be somebody" and to lord one's authority over others. Power gets abused by lawyers, police, judges, boy scout leaders, teachers, parents, children bullying among themselves in school classes, and on and on. That doesn't mean we abolish all these social structures because some people misuse them.
Mother Theresa, in her life-long efforts to make life better for the sick and dying of the world, remained a daughter of the "institutional" church. She drew her inner strength every day from her time in prayer and worship.
Just as human families come together to enjoy each other's company, so too the family of the faithful enjoy that same energy. It can be a thing of beauty, that gives all the strength to carry on with their particular tasks in life.
For me personally the worship at the CoJ the few times I was there, was repulsive (in all it's outward form and beauty) because I knew the underpinnings of it all. I could hardly bear it.
My wife Charlene and I have been fortunate enough to find a parish where the priest truly sees himself as a "servant of the servants of God" and not one who needs to rule and prance about in fancy robes. That is a real gift. It is too often a rarity.
You bring up a lot of really good points, samham. God our Father is so much closer to us than we imagine. He cares for us, suffers with us, and ultimately leads our lives to an good end that we could not have imagined.
Keep up your wonderful work with helping those in pain. The world needs more people like yourself and DT and all those who want to make a difference.
But please don't give up on prayer, samham. It really works.
Peter
(Message edited by pandersen on June 20, 2006) |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.130.120
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 10:02 am: |
|
All that you are all so courageously sharing here brings back many memories for me.
The memories as a child of being awash in such absolute fear, that paralyzing, desperate, clammy sense of doom that wanted to consume and annihilate. And then coupled with it, the feeling of utter hopelessness that things would never get better.
It was the same horrible dread that prevailed in the Brotherhood in Germany, that clutched at me when I thought of leaving.
What a gift to have been able to survive that "tearing-away" and be free and able to make one's own decisions, to make choices out of free will and genuine love and not out of coercion. My wife and I thank God every day for this liberty. |
ackrn
New member
Username: ackrn
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 216.195.206.2
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 4:56 pm: |
|
Blacksheep, dear, sweet, little kid that you were, made me cry to read your postings. I recognized you at once. We had some times together, you and I, although I was babysitting you. Such a funny kid, full of spunk and sunshine, reminded me of my brother, same sort of story, same sort of personality. Hope on my friend, hope on. I do not believe that you are so empty or lost or hard that return to the soft, lovable child you were is impossible, because it is there somewhere in your memory, far away. Yes you have suffered, some by your own hand and some the results of circumstances beyond your control, but I remember you before all that. Loved you then, love you now. M |
bettyboop
New member
Username: bettyboop
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.7.203.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 3:41 am: |
|
Hey there Blacksheep - don't know if you're checking things on here anymore, I finally read through some posts tonight, including yours. That was some incredibly powerful stuff. I was a classmate of yours at gcc for a few years, and I think we might of even lived together. We didn't like each other a whole lot, but I don't think we understood one another very well either. I hope that, perhaps through all of this, we can come to know eachother in a different light. Thanks for having the balls to put it all out there like that. That you still have hope is astounding. I'm pulling for you. |
maxiez32
New member
Username: maxiez32
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.136.26.226
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:41 pm: |
|
Hi everyone...it's been a while since I've posted, but now I think it's the perfect time to tell you all who I am...
My name is Jenna Schmitt; I am married to John Schmitt III, son of Jack and Belinda Schmitt, who live at the community. My husband's grandfather, John French, was recently (re)married to Mary Haig.
I have posted a few times, telling you all about the worries about Jack and Belinda (my in-laws) and their state of well-being at the community. Last night I had dinner with my husband and my brother-in-law, David Schmitt. We all agreed that it's time to figure out what is happening at the community, especially to our family. As most of you know, members of the community's band are preparing for their trip to Korea in August. As part of this preparation,we are concerned that Jack and Belinda are working (or are being worked) so hard that their physical and emotional states are fragile to say the least. We are worried that they might injure themselves in some way. It's to the point that John (my husband) and his siblings may fly out to the community in the near future to try and talk to Jack and Belinda about our concerns.
As you also know, trying to talk to them is very difficult. If any of you know my husband or his family, I would please ask you to respond to this post so that we can contact you privately. We just want to know what is going on!!
Thank you and God bless all of you,
Jenna |
maxiez32
New member
Username: maxiez32
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.136.26.226
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Hi everyone...it's been a while since I've posted, but now I think it's the perfect time to tell you all who I am...
My name is Jenna Schmitt; I am married to John Schmitt III, son of Jack and Belinda Schmitt, who live at the community. My husband's grandfather, John French, was recently (re)married to Mary Haig.
I have posted a few times, telling you all about the worries about Jack and Belinda (my in-laws) and their state of well-being at the community. Last night I had dinner with my husband and my brother-in-law, David Schmitt. We all agreed that it's time to figure out what is happening at the community, especially to our family. As most of you know, members of the community's band are preparing for their trip to Korea in August. As part of this preparation,we are concerned that Jack and Belinda are working (or are being worked) so hard that their physical and emotional states are fragile to say the least. We are worried that they might injure themselves in some way. It's to the point that John (my husband) and his siblings may fly out to the community in the near future to try and talk to Jack and Belinda about our concerns.
As you also know, trying to talk to them is very difficult. If any of you know my husband or his family, I would please ask you to respond to this post so that we can contact you privately. We just want to know what is going on!!
Thank you and God bless all of you,
Jenna |
maxiez32
New member
Username: maxiez32
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 64.136.26.226
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Hi everyone...it's been a while since I've posted, but now I think it's the perfect time to tell you all who I am...
My name is Jenna Schmitt; I am married to John Schmitt III, son of Jack and Belinda Schmitt, who live at the community. My husband's grandfather, John French, was recently (re)married to Mary Haig.
I have posted a few times, telling you all about the worries about Jack and Belinda (my in-laws) and their state of well-being at the community. Last night I had dinner with my husband and my brother-in-law, David Schmitt. We all agreed that it's time to figure out what is happening at the community, especially to our family. As most of you know, members of the community's band are preparing for their trip to Korea in August. As part of this preparation,we are concerned that Jack and Belinda are working (or are being worked) so hard that their physical and emotional states are fragile to say the least. We are worried that they might injure themselves in some way. It's to the point that John (my husband) and his siblings may fly out to the community in the near future to try and talk to Jack and Belinda about our concerns.
As you also know, trying to talk to them is very difficult. If any of you know my husband or his family, I would please ask you to respond to this post so that we can contact you privately. We just want to know what is going on!!
Thank you and God bless all of you,
Jenna |
dream_truth
Advanced Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 899
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.121.36.112
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:45 pm: |
|
Hi Jenna, you can email me at mindawake@gmail.com |
long_ago
New member
Username: long_ago
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 70.144.120.228
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 3:41 pm: |
|
I am an ex-coj'er from long ago. I would like to share my story with y'all (it's not much different from most of you...) The coj was not my choice or idea, my parents decided that the coj would be the best place for me to "straighten out"..... I lived there from 8th grade until the end of my junior year in high school. I endured many "light sessions" & being separated from everyone, not spoken to/not allowed to speak to anyone, scrubbing bathrooms, having to "run" everywhere. At the time I was there a group of us went to the Nauset Regional schools. I felt blamed for pretty much anything that seemed out of sorts to whomever we were living with at the time - and the light sessions (all of you know about those). I rarely saw my parents, lucky if it was once a year.... Many years later I found out that a friend of mine before I went in the coj had mailed me many letters, which I never received. Everytime I was punished I was more determined in my mind not to give in ... okay I'm strong headed and stubborn, but in the coj case I think that is what helped me get through my time there....although in the long run I suffered as many of you did in self-esteem, I had none. At some point my parents decided it was time for me to come home - at that time I guess they thought everything would be fine, but we didn't talk about the coj at all - I was so resentful and angry with them. I couldn't wait to be out and away from everything that I knew or thought I knew. But not knowing how to deal with reality or with life outside the coj and away from my family was a really hard lesson. There have been many years of crying, abusing, & avoiding myself (if that makes any sense to anyone - I couldn't stand to stop long enough to look deep in my soul for fear of rejection from myself and others. Forgiving my parents took a long time and it was very hard to do. I truely felt alone in the world, a lost soul and have never had anyone to talk to that I felt would understand, or that wouldn't think I was crazy. The first time I came to this site and started reading through the post I thought that it was ridiculous, however the more that I read the more I understood that this forum gives ex-cojer's a wonderful place to communicate with others who understand and seem to be non-judgemental. To all of you who have had the wisdom & courage to post here thank you. I know this will sound strange, but reading through these post has helped bring some healing.
Hal, I am so glad that you found the strength to leave! Panderson, Heidi was a remarkable woman full of kindness and warmth - it was truly my honor to have known her. |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 73
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.70.163.173
| | Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
|
Thank you for what you shared here, long_ago.
You are right, Heidi was indeed a remarkable and kind woman. I was privileged as well to have known her as friend and spouse. |
halhelms
New member
Username: halhelms
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.99.107.244
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 2:19 am: |
|
Thanks for sharing your story, long-ago. One thing that's become clear to me is how the Community's power lies in secrecy. It's only in secrecy that the leaders (whoever they are) can get away with the lies and abuse that reveal the true character of the place.
And we were trained not to be open with others, save for those who had power over us. Then, our openness was used to harm and intimidate us. I think many of us left the Community thinking "What is the matter with me? All these other people are so happy..."
That lie, of course, only works in secret. As we found out when we left, those who were there with us -- the very people we thought were (unlike us) happy -- were utterly miserable and thinking exactly what we were.
Welcome to the forum, long_ago. I'm glad you got out, also. |
long_ago
New member
Username: long_ago
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 70.144.120.228
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
|
Hal, you are right lies do only work in secret. The "powers that be" at the coj (also the powers that were) are living proof of that. Intimidation/bullying is their way of keeping control and not exposing themselves as liars.
Although life after the coj has been a struggle for most of us, I can't help but think that we are the ones who are truely blessed (learning to belive that is another story)... |
halhelms
New member
Username: halhelms
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 208.54.95.129
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 1:55 pm: |
|
I was talking about this recently with a friend I reconnected with after 26 years (woo-hoo!) The power of the leaders has a "Wizard of Oz" quality about it. The terrifying, thunderous vision they set up as "God's Annointed" is really just a sad, pathetic, impotent person whose magic is nothing more than cheap trickery.
We've all met people with real personal power. They don't need the props the leaders require to maintain their illusion of power. How I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have laughed openly at their silliness and pomposity. |
cryfreedom
Junior Member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 2:16 pm: |
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AT LEAST WE KNOW what is "behind that curtain" in the Land of Oz on the Cape!!! Too bad more people wouldn't follow the yellow brick road out of there!!!  |
long_ago
New member
Username: long_ago
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 70.144.120.228
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 2:50 pm: |
|
Amen to that cryfreedom!
I have this wonderful saying posted on my wall next to my desk at work -
"I can be changed by what happens to me.
But I refuse to be reduced by it. Maya Angelou
So simply said, yet such a powerful statement! |
cryfreedom
Junior Member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.26.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
|
WHAT A WONDERFUL QUOTE!! Might have to post that one on my bathroom mirror!
HAL, you said in a few post ago that some of us leave and think "what is the matter with me? All these other people are so happy." How friggin true is that. I remember being gone for a few years and then going to see the CJ choir perform in TO. I was, as usual, overwhelmed and touched by the performance(BUT remember at what cost does that performance come at). What children are being left at home during ALL those practises and trips. OK I digress. Anyways, I remember after that performance questioning my decision about leaving and if I had made the right decision. Friggin crazy to have thought that way because by then I was already married and had thought I had moved on. It just proves how much control they had over me even years later. Thank God, it has been a good 20 years now and things like that don't affect me. But for those who have just left recently I can understand your feelings of confusion, anger,and frustration. Just DON'T look back and continue to move FORWARD!
My evening advice. That will be 5 cents in the jar now. |
neveragain
New member
Username: neveragain
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 209.47.31.7
| | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:11 pm: |
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Checking to see if this will post.
"long_ago" like your powerful statement.
Glad that you decide to post and are able to connect here with those who understand your life as it was long ago. |
underhiswing
New member
Username: underhiswing
Post Number: 9
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 24.60.47.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 8:15 pm: |
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Hi to everyone on this post! LOVE reading what everyone has to say...I feel like I'm getting healing and closure from what I thought was not a big deal to me anymore since it's been a while. But it's reinforcing the Truth by disarming the lies and I see patterns of abuse here and how their hierarchy works. So happy to see people moving on and finding life after the COJ. God is so good!
Sam, special wishes your way! Thanks for hanging in there! You are so blessed!
David, so happy you're free! How does it feel! Love to you and Barbara! LOOOOOVE your outlook and writing!!!! =) Is Peter M gone too?
Hal Helms...so excited you escaped too! I wish you the best in life! You were TOOOOOOO funny growing up!!!! you and Brother Chuck...!!!!I wish Brother Peter would leave!
And thank-you Pandersen for all your contribution about your mom...i can't imagine being in your shoes for a minute while you were growing up with Cay. Thank-you for your great faith! It's so strengthening and encouraging.
May Jesus just give you all a giant hug and special blessing! wish this site was around a few years ago! love you! xoxoxoxoxoxo u |
halhelms
New member
Username: halhelms
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 72.185.64.204
| | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
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It's really tremendous connecting with "survivors" after all these years. The CoJ was just so horifically abusive that it's a miracle any of us made it out even remotely intact. |
underhiswing
New member
Username: underhiswing
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 24.60.47.137
| | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:23 pm: |
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Hi Hal! Where has life led you? You have awesome insight and love reading your posts. How are all your family? :^) |
halhelms
New member
Username: halhelms
Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 72.185.64.204
| | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:15 pm: |
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Well, after I left the Community, I went to Los Angeles (talk about culture shock!) I continued with woodworking, eventually owning my own company and doing all of NBC's work out there. I got married and we have a 17-year old son who's wonderful: the true joy of my life.
As the owner of the business, I found myself spending more and more time with computers and less with woodworking. Finally, I got to the point where I realized I liked working with computers a lot more than I liked owning a business, so I sold the biz and our family moved to Atlanta. After working for a few companies, I found myself in business again. Things have worked out well for me since then.
I talk to my mother perhaps once a year, which is always very strange. She shows no interest in me or her grandson. In fact, I doubt she could tell you his name. Oh, well. I talk to my sister, Sue, more frequently. She's a terrific person who's survived tremendous hardship and is a fun, wonderful person. My brother, Tim, seems unwilling to talk more than once every 2-3 years. My other brother, Phil, I speak with occasionally. I've come to the conclusion that our family, which I thought was close when I was growing up, is pretty seriously dysfunctional. That would include me, I'm afraid! |
underhiswing
New member
Username: underhiswing
Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 24.60.47.137
| | Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 9:04 am: |
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Hi Hal! Great to hear from you! I'm gonna write you on the "other" board...this one isn' private enough, k? =) u |
underhiswing
New member
Username: underhiswing
Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 24.60.47.137
| | Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
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Hi Hal! Great to hear from you! I'm gonna write you on the "other" board...this one isn' private enough, k? =) u |
banjax
New member
Username: banjax
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 81.178.83.100
| | Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:41 pm: |
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Hey Hal - I'd really like to talk with you too but have no details about 'underhiswing' and the "other board". Hopefully he/she's gotten nothing to hide from us! If you could let me know how to contact ya'll then that would be great. |
halhelms
New member
Username: halhelms
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 72.185.64.204
| | Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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My email is hal@halhelms.com. Please feel free to contact me. It took me a long time before I felt free enough to speak publicly about the Community. There is such an oppressive air about the place that it makes it hard to be open. I've found that having sufficient time away helps me get perspective on the Community: it's just another cult with the same petty mind-control techniques practiced by all cults. If the Community were really as powerful as they represent themselves to their members (being God's agents and all), they would have nothing to fear from a frank and open exchange. But if, as I maintain, the Community's power comes from controlling the environment of those it it (including what they are allowed to hear and read), then this tenuous "power" must be protected from the outside world at all costs. |
expathmember
Junior Member
Username: expathmember
Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 162.84.53.2
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 9:26 am: |
|
That is SO true about how powerful cults would actually be IF they actually had all the power they SAY they have from their relationship with God, as "God's agents," like you say!
This is so like the emperor has no clothes! |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 136.160.250.253
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:33 pm: |
|
I see that this thread is old, but I just stumbled across this board so I will take the opportunity to share my story.
My name is Bonnie Zampino. Until the age of 14, I lived with my family. My father was, at that time, an Episcopal priest who received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in the early 70’s while on retreat at the CofJ. Years later, after being commissioned an Evangelist by the Episcopal church and moving to Florida, he decided to move back to Maryland and establish his own Benedictine Community called the Life in Jesus Community. Mother Cay and Mother Judy met with my family several times, both in Maryland and on the Cape to mentor my parents and help with founding the community.
Shortly after the establishment of my parent’s community, I began to become a “problem child” according to my parents. I’m still, to this day, not so sure what I was doing that was so horrible, but apparently I was “in rebellion” and my parents decided to send me to the CofJ for the summer after 9th grade. I’ll never forget my suitcase that contained a total of 2 skirts, 2 shirts and one dress…my wardrobe to last me through 3 months. They didn’t even allow me a hair dryer. Why? I don’t know. Maybe I was too vain or something.
So, I said goodbye to my mother and my brothers (I still have a picture of me with my youngest brother as I was leaving showing the tears pouring down his cheeks) and drove with my father to the Cape.
I was assigned to Jerusalem during the days. I lived with the Edmonsons and the MacMillins…Uncle Bob and Aunt Janet and Aunt Connie and Uncle ?, their children and another older girl who was also a live in. My first day there I ate some peanut butter and drank some diet soda….and spent the rest of the day in the basement ironing because of my choice in snack foods. Don’t ask…I don’t know why that was wrong, but apparently it was!
So my summer was spent ironing, doing stained glass work with the Sisters, weeding the immense gardens, going to services and having occasional times of relaxation on the beach in my beautiful skirted bathing suit. UGH!!! I remember seeing the Mother’s driving around in their golf cart. Everyone was so in awe of them and I couldn’t understand why. I remember thinking that Mother Cay’s hair was so pretty…blond and regally styled as a crown.
Summer came and went and, because I had not made whatever progress I was supposed to, I was not allowed to go home. I was enrolled in 9th grade again, but this time at Nauset Regional High School. Oh, how I hated being one of the “Community Kids”! How I hated the horrible, handmade clothes I had to wear and my short hair and my lack of makeup. How I hated the taunts and jeers of the other kids. I was so miserable. I was so lonely. I even hated making those stupid “loving lunches” for the other girls. What was that all about?!?!? I’d make this loving lunch with crap like peanut butter and fluff sandwiches and then go to light group later and get lamblasted by the very girl who ate my sandwich. Horrible!!!
I spent 9th grade doing everything in my power to get kicked out. I smoked cigarettes and made sure I got caught. I broke into the liquor cabinet and got drunk before prayer vigil one Friday night . I did poorly in school and had to stay after for detention more often than not. But instead of getting sent home, I just got sent to the basement to iron or outside to weed. Instead of being reunited with my family, I was denied meals... |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 136.160.250.253
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:35 pm: |
|
The worst betrayal was when they found my poetry…and destroyed it. I wrote all the time as my way of expressing my deep despair. There was nothing lurid or bad about it…it was just my feelings. And they destroyed all but one. That one they put into a beautiful journal, written in beautiful script, and presented to me on my birthday. I was furious! But I also got the last laugh. Because you can tear up and destroy paper but those poems were a part of me and I recreated every single one of them. They could not destroy my memory or my mind…although they tried.
The summer after 9th grade I had an epiphany and I realized that if I gave them what they wanted, they would determine that I was a good girl and let me go home. So I started on a crusade of being wonderful. Even when I got in trouble, I was quick to admit to whatever sin I was being accused of. I was quick to cry and ask for forgiveness and the “Blood Washing of Jesus”. I decided to conform on the outside…and be true to myself on the inside.
And then, one day, I was moved to Capernaum with the Jacksons. I liked it there much better. I do remember taking an overdose of codeine one night while there. I was so miserable and I really wanted to die. After a bit, I couldn’t breathe and was terrified and spent the night in the upstairs bathroom with my back against the radiator. Somehow the heat seemed to help relax me and aid my breathing. I made it through that night and I don’t think anyone found out about my suicide attempt.
During that time, I fell in love with Rick Pugsley. There was a mutual attraction as I recall and when he left for the air force we were able to send letters for a while. He came home on leave and there was a get-together in one of the homes. I rode back to my house with him and 2 others…and was punished severely for being in a car with him.
The longer I was at Capernaum, the more I began to be pressured to start thinking of joining the Sisterhood. I have NEVER felt a call to that way of life, and started out objecting furiously to the suggestions, but as time wore on and my need for acceptance and approval grew, I began to mull over the idea.
You know, I’ve always been a strong person with strong opinions and a strong mind. But there at the CofJ somehow I NEEDED to be loved and approved of. Maybe it was because I was never good enough there. Maybe that was how they were able to control me in the end. I knew that they weren’t going to kick me out…so I figured out how to conform on the outside so that life became easier for me and yet was still able to maintain my own sense of self on the inside. For a time. But then I slowly started selling out. Not just with outward conformity but with a serious need to be judged and found good. And the more I gave up myself to please them, the more I was accepted.
And then, one day, I was told that my parents wanted to bring me home. My date of departure was 2 months away and yet the moment that they knew I was leaving, a door slammed in my face. I was left out of group activities within my peer group. I was banned from discussions. I became a specter…a non-person. I was an outcast yet again. Maybe it was good. Maybe it made my departure easier. I was 16. I had spent 2 ½ years growing up there with no family so the CofJ was my life.
And I went home to my parent’s community that was quite mature by that time. Things were not quite as structured there as they were at the CofJ and I was able to join my school volleyball team, attend my Junior Prom, etc. But I was itching for freedom by that point. I had not had the opportunity to be a normal child or teenager and suddenly I was jumping into real life with both feet... |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 136.160.250.253
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:38 pm: |
|
And as my parents saw my desire to be free, the gave me an ultimatum…I could return to the CofJ or go live on the streets of Frederick, MD. And to this day I do not regret my decision. I told them that I would die before going back to the Cape and living in a box.
They put me in the car, drove me ½ hour into the nearest town and dropped me at the door of the women’s homeless shelter. I was 18 years old.
Now I’m 37. There’s much more to my story and I’ll share more later. But I know that the decision I made in early adulthood were the direct result of not being able to make any decisions growing up. Things that I should have done on a small scale as a teenager and learned from I instead did as an adult where the mistakes were bigger and the stakes much higher.
Thank you for having this place to share and reconnect and ask questions and heal. This is a part of my life that I shut off and locked away and haven’t really ever dealt with. Maybe I’m ready to do that now. |
exmonk
Intermediate Member
Username: exmonk
Post Number: 118
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.163.52.88
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:50 pm: |
|
Dear Bonnie,
What a story. How could your parents do that?
I am trying to put face to your name as I do remember your name very well. I was a young brother at the time and not allowed to speak to women as a rule unless in a businesslike fashion. So Im sure I saw you but probably never talked to you much. Thanks for sharing and we look forward to hearing the rest of your story.
Take care,
E |
exmonk
Intermediate Member
Username: exmonk
Post Number: 119
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.163.52.88
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:56 pm: |
|
Dear Bonnie,
What a story. How could your parents do that?
I am trying to put face to your name as I do remember your name very well. I was a young brother at the time and not allowed to speak to women as a rule unless in a businesslike fashion. So Im sure I saw you but probably never talked to you much. Thanks for sharing and we look forward to hearing the rest of your story.
Take care,
E |
hightide
New member
Username: hightide
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 199.231.28.56
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 4:12 pm: |
|
God Bonnie! I'm so sorry. A homeless shelter for God's sake. I am so glad you were able to create your poems again. You wrote so well. I remember you getting busted for cigarettes. I can't remember what happened but remember you had some in your purse or something and they were found. No privacy! Do you have a relationship with your parents now at all? I do hope you can find healing here. |
tellitlikeitis
New member
Username: tellitlikeitis
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.73.50.22
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:59 pm: |
|
Bonnie,
Thank you for sharing such a personal and heart-rending story. I find echoes of my own life reflected in your words. It leaves me w/o words how parents - yours and so many others - can become so hardened and conditioned to conformity to a group that they would behave in such a manner to their own child. I can't imagine that God (if you believe in him) doesn't weep when he witnesses something so horrendous being done in his name. And the tragedy of it all is that somewhere, in some mixed up way y/our parents became convinced that they were showing us "true Christian" love. My heart goes out to you, Bonnie. Somehow knowing that you're being validated and that their are others along similar paths of healing makes the journey seem so much more bearable. And to have others understand the true meaning of these experiences....what a wonderful support. To people who never experienced this type of life and esp. the DESPARATE need to be loved and accepted that one would literally sell their soul to gain it . . . it just seems beyond comprehension. I wonder just how many of us lived one way on the outside to protect ourselves just enough to somehow stay true to ourselves on the inside. In retrospect it's all so sad, yet looking towards the future there's hope -- that we can become healed, hole, and authentic people not always twisting ourselves to fit into some proscribed behavior. Take care, Bonnie you have much support, even from people who you may not know. |
spain
New member
Username: spain
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 69.204.218.207
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 6:13 pm: |
|
Bonnie, I don't know you at all but I'm crying after reading your story. We have all found support and validation here. It has helped us a lot, I think, to deal with the past in a clearer way.
Spain |
usedtobethere
Junior Member
Username: usedtobethere
Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 209.47.31.5
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 6:32 pm: |
|
Bonnie:
One more story of so much pain and all in the name of God. :-( What power hungry individuals, I hope that SOMEONE AT THE CofJ IS READING THIS TODAY and HAS A HEART to see what was done to yet another innocent young person. I never knew it was so bad there for you all until recently, that was not the face that was displayed to us when we visited. I am so glad you have connected here, you will find great support from others who have gone through the TORTURES of that DAMNABLE PLACE. |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.137.8.109
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 9:14 pm: |
|
I have been so emotional yesterday and today after discovering this site. I don't know if I really do want to deal with everything, but I also believe that we are given the grace to confront things in our pasts when the time is right. Pictures from the past keep flashing in my mind now...things I had forgotten entirely. It hurts. I guess I had no idea how to deal with being 14 and without a family, without stability and without love and affection and approval so I just didn't deal with it at all. And I guess after all this time I never figured out how to deal with it. I'm starting to see that so much of who I became as an adult directly after leaving has so very much to do with what I lived through there. How did I never see this before? And what am I supposed to do about it now?
One thing that I used to think about all the time...Remember how we were always told about our sin nature and that we were intrinsically bad and that a certain sin was at the root of almost everything that we did? I always wondered what they thought about the verse in the Bible that said "If any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature. Old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new." Why could they never focus on who we became in Christ? How come they could never show us the loving God who created each of us intentionally because He wanted to hang out with us? Why couldn't they show us the God who sits us on His knee and just holds us? Why was God so harsh? And how were any of us supposed to have real relationships with Him ...or anyone else for that matter...when none of us knew how to trust? We didn't trust each other, we didn't trust those in authority, and we couldn't trust such a vengeful God. And now? What are we supposed to do?
Strangely, I do have a relationship with my parents. I didn't for a long time. I don't live in their community and live about an hour away. I see them at church on Sundays and on holidays. They are the leaders of their community and I'm not privy to the inner workings of their way of life. I have to let them do what they must. And I do what I must. It's the only way to co-exist. I love them and believe that they love me too. They're part of the "tough love" generation. It's sad, but I think they they probably were influenced by the C of J to keep me there. I want to now ask them why they brought me home. Funny that I never asked them that question before.
Hightide, I'm just dying to know who you are! You can email me...anyone can...at bonniebee69@yahoo.com. Exmonk, if you email me, I'll direct you to my MySpace page. Maybe some pictures there will jog your memory.
Anyway, thanks to all of you for your outpouring of love and support. Have a wonderful night. |
questiongrrl
New member
Username: questiongrrl
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 67.70.70.57
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:57 am: |
|
bonnieb,
thank you so much for sharing your story here. i hope that you take all the time you need to deal with the emotional impact of these realizations, and don't feel pressured to 'contribute' if you need some space.
i related very closely to your description of trying to conform on the outside and protecting your 'true self' on the inside. i imagine that we all relate to this. i found it very difficult to maintain this separation and many times - especially as a child - these two categories would collapse. as you noted, the need to be loved and accepted is often too great. i sometimes find that trying to balance these two 'selves' for so many years has made it difficult for me to be/feel coherent in my adult life.
thanks again for your post. all the best to you...
-QG |
picking_peas
New member
Username: picking_peas
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 67.183.26.227
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 5:23 am: |
|
I found this site a few days ago, and have been somewhat mesmorized at the computer. My parents were non-resident members of the CofJ. We attended Parkminster Pres in Rochester. One of my best friends (perhaps dozerman's sister?) moved to the CofJ and my family was to follow in 3 weeks. The next thing I knew, we weren't moving - it wasn't "God's will". I didn't know we'd never be going back and I felt robbed. I somehow felt safe at the CofJ. It's still odd to me, how much I wanted and liked the structure, and yet have vivid memories of the fear of doing something wrong - which was nearly (if at all) impossible to avoid. Anyhow, I have a lot I could say, but it's late and I've got too much going through my head after reading this entire thread tonight. It's a bit difficult to organize thoughts in this state. I will say that I am glad to have found this site and all of you here. I spent years working through stuff learned at the CofJ and at Parkminster (back when Rev. Showalter was there). I've moved away from talking much about those days - until now. Just happened to mention the CofJ at coffee the other day and the woman told me about this site - I was shocked - it's not often someone recognizes the CofJ name. She had only learned of it 2 weeks earlier, so timing was great. It's good to find you here. In one thread someone mentioned a Yahoo Group. Is that an open ex-CofJ group as well? |
bonnieb
Junior Member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.137.250.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 8:15 am: |
|
Welcome, Picking Peas! I'm so glad that you found this site. I hope that you will find that this to be a place of healing for you. I look forward to seeing you here in the future. |
samham
Member
Username: samham
Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 199.232.151.1
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 9:16 am: |
|
PP - How wonderful that you found this board! If you have read through the other posts, you will find a lot of support here. I am a former member of the COJ. I grew up with Rev. Showalter's daughter. If you want, you can email me at dewittney@aol.com and we can talk in more detail. In the meantime, welcome! |
ackrn
New member
Username: ackrn
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 216.195.206.2
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:19 pm: |
|
Picking Peas! Ha ha, that's a good name! I laughed good and hard when I read that! Does anyone know the outcome of the recent (sort-of) "election" at the community? I guess I could ask my sister, but wondered if anyone here knew. Bonnie - I read your story with only a minimal understanding of the things you went through while you were there. We were in the same class, although I went off to GCC in grade 10. Remember Eric Hubler? Ha!
On a more serious note, I heard that Phil Buddington passed away last week. Wonderful people, those Buddington grandparents. My simpathies to Ruth and Magdalene and Dan. |
picking_peas
New member
Username: picking_peas
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 69.90.131.31
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 10:42 pm: |
|
Thanks for the welcomes. Ackrn, glad you understood my name - I was laughing too. The good 'ole Garden Days... I used to come home with itchy sun poison all over my arms - even with sunscreen. Of course, I still had to go out, sun poison wasn't a good enough reason to get out of it, so I wore long sleeves. Craziness. I did like the peacefulness of just sitting with the plants, enjoying a few bites of peas, so it's probably good I wasn't removed from that chore.
I couldn't understand why the teenage girl leading us had to be so mean and harsh. We were just kids. Looking back, I believe she was in a prominent family there, so I get it now and can have some empathic understanding about it. She had good examples of mean and harsh to eminate. But it still sucked - she scared me! |
bonnieb
Junior Member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.137.250.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 11:19 pm: |
|
Hey Ackrn!
It's so weird that you brought up Eric Hubler! I DON"T remember him, actually, but I found a diary that I had at the C of J with only about 4 entries and one of them mentions Eric and something about him getting suspended? Who was he? Sorry to be so weird, but I have very limited memory from that time in my life. Some are starting to come back to me...and sometimes I wish they wouldn't!!! And now, of course, I'm dying to know who you are!
All day I've been singing "Picking Peas" to the tune of "Bringing in the Sheaves"...it's driving me crazy!
Have a great night, everyone
(Message edited by BonnieB on April 10, 2007) |
ackrn
New member
Username: ackrn
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.63.243.107
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:31 am: |
|
I don't remember EVER wearing sunscreen when we were gardening, which is weird, I remember everything else. Did we wear sunscreen? Maybe Samham will remember. I do remember having to wear a hat though. |
picking_peas
New member
Username: picking_peas
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 69.90.131.31
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 1:31 am: |
|
My parents were VERY careful about me and sunscreen - I was/am so fair-skinned, you could say I'm almost transparent :-) Oh yes - the hats.
Did anyone else ever fantasize about running out to that boat in the distance when the tide was out? My father told me I could never beat the tide running back in, so I didn't try... but it was tempting (I was about 8-10 years old). I loved playing with Zeke (the Elmer's (D & J) stud Golden Retriever?) I believe he was the father of our dog. Funny that such a loving and playful dog breed was so common on those grounds. If only the leadership could have learned from them! Playing on the beach with my family, and the dogs running on the beach - I must say, those are some good memories.
Sorry about the tune, Bonnieb, although I do find it a bit humorous :-) |
samham
Member
Username: samham
Post Number: 61
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 199.232.151.1
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:14 am: |
|
I don't EVER remember wearing sunscreen when we were outside, although I do remember wearing a hat. But then again, those were the days when sunscreen wasn't something people thought about. We just got tan. I can remember though how hot it was, particularly in the fish garden out front deadheading. Although the small locust grove was still on Zion front lawn, there was no shade over the garden. I actually liked doing that only because we were so close to the Harbor and got to see the boats coming in and all the tourists going by. A glimpse of the outside..... sigh... |
hightide
New member
Username: hightide
Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 199.231.28.56
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:33 am: |
|
hat, yes, sunscreen? never. deadheading petunias, good lord what a chore. I have to say, however, that later on when the bathing dresses became fashionable on the beach that they served as a most excellent sun repellant along with the beautiful long skirts in the gardens when pants and shorts were no longer permissable. |
papillon
New member
Username: papillon
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 24.40.146.45
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:33 pm: |
|
Hi Everyone,
Greetings. I'd like to say a huge THANKS to all of you for your courage, it's wonderful to find you in cyberspace!
I found this site a few weeks ago and it really threw me for a loop. It triggered memories I hadn't thought of in years. The first couple of nights I spent reading every post. Some of the things on here I had never known others to have experienced, and never had any validation of till now. So, thanks! I wish you all lots of love and joy.
When I was 14, in 1979, my family met members of the CoJ in Pennsylvania. Later that year, we became "live-ins," and, after a time, members. All told, at least one of my immediate family was a member from 1979 through 2002. I lived there, off and on, from 1979 through 1983. I also went to Grenville Christian College, but did not graduate from there. Both my siblings, however, did.
I knew some of you here, and some who are mentioned only. More of you would know my siblings and parents. I also knew some of you when you were children (and thought you were a beautiful bunch and worried about you all, especially David Smith).
We started out at Parkminster and I spent a lot of time with the Showalter kids, Betsy and Peter, and the neighbor, Andy. I also babysat and spent time with a sweet little girl named Anna.
As dysfunctional as my family was, however, my experience of the CoJ was too much for me at that time. My parents - to my great horror - became what I felt was "brainwashed" - and began to think everything Cay and Judy said was straight from the Almighty himself.
They were very abusive to me and I "rebelled" as I was continually beaten and abducted to "break my will."
Rather than "give in" to what I considered to be some amazingly evil people, I stayed "in rebellion" and became caught in a downward spiral into teenage homelessness.
First I was placed by Community members through coordinated deception into a psychiatric ward. I was released 12 days later with no diagnosis, other than hostility toward my parents, and a recommendation of family counseling. That made them angry, as they were busy convincing my family that I was the source of all the family's ills.
A week after that, as I was walking home from school, I was forcibly abducted by three adults in a sedan, and taken against my will from my native PA to Rochester, NY (where I had never been) to "live-in" with a Community family.
I ran away three days later with nothing but the clothes on my back (flip-flops for shoes) and a paring knife in my jeans. I was returned to the Community 3 weeks after that, by the loving family who picked me up hitch-hiking and housed and fed me, until they got scared. The Community promised my "rescuers" and me to be able to keep in contact, but that promise was not kept, and I was then locked up and kept under physical restraint and constant observation, until I went to Grenville that fall.
I didn't get into trouble at Grenville until I had the misfortune to call my parents from the student pay phone, crying and begging to be allowed to return to PA or at least to live with them. The moment I hung up the phone, I was flanked on both ends of the hallway by adults. I knew then the phone was tapped, and that would be my last honest call. After that, the physical, mental, and emotional abuse kicked in and the process to "break my will" resumed in earnest. |
papillon
New member
Username: papillon
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 24.40.146.45
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 9:42 pm: |
|
Hi Everyone,
Greetings. I'd like to say a huge THANKS to all of you for your courage, it's wonderful to find you in cyberspace!
I found this site a few weeks ago and it really threw me for a loop. It triggered memories I hadn't thought of in years. The first couple of nights I spent reading every post. Some of the things on here I had never known others to have experienced, and never had any validation of till now. So, thanks! I wish you all lots of love and joy.
When I was 14, in 1979, my family met members of the CoJ in Pennsylvania. Later that year, we became "live-ins," and, after a time, members. All told, at least one of my immediate family was a member from 1979 through 2002. I lived there, off and on, from 1979 through 1983. I also went to Grenville Christian College, but did not graduate from there. Both my siblings, however, did.
I knew some of you here, and some who are mentioned only. More of you would know my siblings and parents. I also knew some of you when you were children (and thought you were a beautiful bunch and worried about you all, especially David Smith).
We started out at Parkminster and I spent a lot of time with the Showalter kids, Betsy and Peter, and the neighbor, Andy. I also babysat and spent time with a sweet little girl named Anna.
As dysfunctional as my family was, however, my experience of the CoJ was too much for me at that time. My parents - to my great horror - became what I felt was "brainwashed" - and began to think everything Cay and Judy said was straight from the Almighty himself.
They were very abusive to me and I "rebelled" as I was continually beaten and abducted to "break my will."
Rather than "give in" to what I considered to be some amazingly evil people, I stayed "in rebellion" and became caught in a downward spiral into teenage homelessness.
First I was placed by Community members through coordinated deception into a psychiatric ward. I was released 12 days later with no diagnosis, other than hostility toward my parents, and a recommendation of family counseling. That made them angry, as they were busy convincing my family that I was the source of all the family's ills.
A week after that, as I was walking home from school, I was forcibly abducted by three adults in a sedan, and taken against my will from my native PA to Rochester, NY (where I had never been) to "live-in" with a Community family.
I ran away three days later with nothing but the clothes on my back (flip-flops for shoes) and a paring knife in my jeans. I was returned to the Community 3 weeks after that, by the loving family who picked me up hitch-hiking and housed and fed me, until they got scared. The Community promised my "rescuers" and me to be able to keep in contact, but that promise was not kept, and I was then locked up and kept under physical restraint and constant observation, until I went to Grenville that fall.
I didn't get into trouble at Grenville until I had the misfortune to call my parents from the student pay phone, crying and begging to be allowed to return to PA or at least to live with them. The moment I hung up the phone, I was flanked on both ends of the hallway by adults. I knew then the phone was tapped, and that would be my last honest call. After that, the physical, mental, and emotional abuse kicked in and the process to "break my will" resumed in earnest. |
papillon
New member
Username: papillon
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 24.40.146.45
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:00 pm: |
|
-- sorry for the double post :-( -- part two of three follows:
I was physically beaten, publically humiliated, and subjected to group "mind control" sessions, aimed at making me feel rotten about myself. When that didn't work, a theft was staged and I was publically accused and "suspended." They threatened to take me to the police station, which I readily agreed to as I was completely
innocent. Finally, they did. The Sheriff said I was innocent. However, while a relief to me, that only made them more angry.
After that, the physical and emotional abuse and public humiliation intensified. Although I was terrified and didn't know what to do, I didn't give in. I knew I hadn't done anything. I sincerely tried to follow all the rules, but could never "like" it there, and couldn't help that. I was terrified and desperate to go home.
Finally, when Al Haig and Charles Farnsworth couldn't "break my will" (though it wasn't for lack of trying), I was suspended, and told to sign a "confession" they wrote in order to come back. That was the end of my career at Grenville. I couldn't understand the logic of making me sign a fake confession to a fake crime to return to a place I didn't want to go to.
However, I thought it significant that my father's tuition money, that he requested be returned, never was. He was told that he wasn't going to get it back because I had left through my own misdeeds (which wasn't accurate). |
papillon
New member
Username: papillon
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 24.40.146.45
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:17 pm: |
|
-- PART THREE OF THREE ---
So, back to the Community in Rochester I went for "reform" and "molding" ... (Cross Point? Church of the 'Transfiguration'?! Indeed). It was constant physical and emotional abuse, which included even being locked in the basement for days at a time, while assigned a particular household task, slammed against a wall and
called a "whore," and beaten for hours on end; Until, finally, they decided that I "had to go." I tried to live there and follow the rules, but I wouldn't "go back to Grenville" or think like them.
So, they arranged for me to be placed into a foster home. It took quite a bit of beating and bruising, but finally the Dept of Social Services accepted my case. I stayed in the foster home until sexual abuse became an issue, and then I "ran away" and lived with relatives of the people who picked me up hitch-hiking the previous year, until I could finally make it back to PA where I stayed with my friend and her mother for awhile.
When I turned 16, my friend's mother arranged for me to be an "emanicipated minor" and I sublet an
apartment with the help of social services. I was so scared (and broke) I could barely eat and was sick all the time.
During that time, I called my parents constantly, but was told by the Community members, Jane and Tom Witter, that it was "Gawd's Will" that I be in a foster home and my parents weren't going to talk to me until I returned to the foster home. My parents claim that they were never informed of my calls. They were physically abused there as well, and were afraid to question anything.
Finally, when i was 17, my parents had left the Community live-in program and were living on their own, in a Community house, and were allowed to talk to me again. To this day, they claim that they never knew that I called while I was gone.
Due to various circumstances I almost died during this time of homelessness, but was saved through
some amazing synchronicities (yes, God does still love and protect you when you are 'in rebellion' ... it is what is in your heart that counts).
Anyway, after moving back in with my parents, we spent some time that summer at the Community in Orleans, where I met some of you. The year after that I graduated high school in Rochester and went to college, leaving home (and the CoJ) for good.
My brother, however, was not so "lucky." (exmonk: he was one of the young boys who lived with you and the brothers for awhile. The brothers are one of his better memories, btw. Grenville he refuses to discuss.)
My parents didn't end their membership until some further abuses (and very serious ones - worse than what happened to me) occurred to my brother and sister, and my father got sick of constantly being harassed to donate more money.
It was very hard getting started in life, and overcoming the experiences I had. I hear you all and know what you are going through. It is very worth the trouble, however. Liberty, freedom and respect are what everyone deserves! It's time for the evil to go and the love to fill in. (imho, anyway).
Hope I didn't depress anyone. It is good to have this forum to post to. Best wishes. |
bonnieb
Junior Member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.137.250.103
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Wow, Papillon! I don't even know what to say except welcome. You've been through a lot and have obviously overcome much. I'm glad you've found us |
spontaneous_joy
New member
Username: spontaneous_joy
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 66.27.121.188
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 1:49 am: |
|
Forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here, but I would like to say to all of you who have pasts at GCC or CofJ....
I read the stories of what you have endured and overcome and stand here truly in awe. It may not have been an easy road, but the fact that you are still here, still able to love and trust, still able to forgive or at least see things in a clear light...that takes an incredible amount of strength and every single one of you should be proud for every day that you continue on. |
samham
Member
Username: samham
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 199.232.151.1
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 9:06 am: |
|
Papillon - Welcome! I'm so glad you found a place to tell your story and be understood. This Board has been a great place for everyone to find understanding, debate, and to discuss our shared pasts. It is amazing to see how many "formers" have found their way here by sheer chance. |
plainoldme
New member
Username: plainoldme
Post Number: 14
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 172.150.100.190
| | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:30 am: |
|
Welcome Papillion! Your words are never depressing but a healing for all of us.
For everyone who wants to keep in touch besides on here, nina_beansie40@yahoo.com is my email. |
tapfere_mann
New member
Username: tapfere_mann
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 68.106.103.64
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:59 pm: |
|
Zeke was pretty much the Don Juan of the dog world at coj...at least someone/smething there was feeling quite liberated. |
picking_peas
New member
Username: picking_peas
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 67.183.26.227
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 2:35 pm: |
|
funny :-)
Once in a while I would marvel at the fact that Honeybear, one of Zeek's offspring that we took home, was so loving - such a contrast to where she was bred.
Zeek "sired" some GOOD dogs!! :-) |
picking_peas
New member
Username: picking_peas
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 67.183.26.227
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:26 pm: |
|
anyone on here in the NorthWest? |
kmiller1610
New member
Username: kmiller1610
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 71.234.237.105
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 2:31 pm: |
|
A short history of this whole matter in my life.
1965 - charismatic renewal in mainstream churches; Ex Hippies, Jesus freaks and their parents feel the power of the 60s. Many seek to rebel against "the establishment" I was 14.
Cay and Judy teach up and down the east coast.
Many are attracted and make the journey to Rock Harbor Manor... Summers in a cottage less than a mile away.. making popcorn with Peter Andersen's brother.. attending Monday Night meetings... found the whole thing mildly distracting..
1967 .... My family moves to South Orleans and tries to work with Cay and Judy to organize.. something. Being from a family of rebels, it didn't work...
1968 .... 6 Weeks at Canaan in West Germany. Read the Bible through. Attended a Heaven Festival with Mother Basilea. Found out later that Judy Sorensen was also there and that she had flunked out of whatever program she was involved in at Kanaan. I was there mainly because my brother had gone the year before. Learned some German songs.
For a short time the "Little Sisters of Mary" operated at Rock Harbor Manor as a kind of imitation of Kanaan. After Judy couldn't cut it with Kanaan, this was dropped. Sometime later COJ was organized.
1969 .... Went to Berean Christian Schools in Stony Brook, Long Island. This missions school became GCC a year later in Canada (some strange fate, eh?) Berean had a strong external message (no Navel gazing) but its founder (Warren Litzman) had his own problems.
1975 ... spent 6 months at GCC, teaching and experiencing light sessions first hand. The day all my peers humiliated a young student and forced him to destroy his rock and roll records in front of his peers, I knew something was seriously wrong with the place. So like my parents before me at Rock Harbor Manor, I couldn't cut it, thankfully.
I had a lot of friends from Berean at GCC. The Berean message of a deep personal relationship with Christ, coupled with the mission emphasis sort of insulated me from a lot of the nonesense at GCC and COJ. I could never take it seriously. At Berean, we took in street people, worked with drug addicts and did street evangelism all up and down the east coast. I was really at GCC and later COJ because my wife was one of the original "Little Sisters of Mary..." and she wanted back into that life.
1975 - 1979 .... 3 women in my church, Chris Wall, Geraldine McCormack and my mother died of cancer. Each of them were "graduates" of COJ. Many people I know still think they had death wishes, having "failed" at COJ.
1979 .. 6 months at COJ and the end of my willingness to be a part of that life. This was my last attempt at saving my marriage by going to COJ. I was divorced in 1982.
Sorry this story is kind of dry, but just wanted to document it somewhere and this seemed to be the place. I was really more of a lurker than a serious member.
I thank God I never had the spiritual ego to imagine I could keep up with it all. I'm just another forgiven sinner and always have been.
In 1986, I appeared with the Cigna players in Bloomfield CT as part of a cast of sinners and reprobates performing Godspell. Thankfully, God does the work. The spirit moved. It's God's work, not ours. I still cry whenever I hear "All good gifts...."
Just call me Balaam's donkey. |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 67.137.250.31
| | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 8:47 pm: |
|
I'd just like to say hi and welcome to krwg and kmiller1610. It's great to have you both here, sharing your unique perspectives and experiences...one from the early years...and one from the later ones. WELCOME! |
dignityquest
New member
Username: dignityquest
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 99.245.112.186
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:52 pm: |
|
Hi All: I see this thread hasn't been posted in a while, but I just found this amazing site a couple of days ago. I've posted on a few other threads. Particularly wanted to post here as there are many Community folks talking here and I've mostly talked about grenville so far. though I've talked in "generalities" I will get a little specific here about my story. I was sent to Grenville in Gr. 11 in 1973. (the usuall, problem child, though now I know that was BS) my Dad had died and my Mom looked for helped and Al & Mary Haig were the "helpers". By the middle of my Gr. 12 year, though never breaking a single rule, I was beaten twice with the famous paddle, the second time while held down by 3 men and so deeply bruised, that the 1st person who saw me immediatly vomited. For all this horror (and many others) after leaving at the end of Gr. 12, I returned 6 mos. later with my Mothere who decided to move there. This is a small indication of how incapable I was of clear independent thought. The next 8 yrs were the "life Corp" years (death corp is more accurate). routinely bouncing back and forth from being "in Jesus" to a disgrace to God and man. One day teaching and having a ball, next 6 mos on Discipline and removed from all I was good at. "Dark" session after dark session, slowly but surely destroying what I later learned was the lovely, creative, giving soul in me. Finally, at 26, I move to CofJ to become a Novice brother. This, I was sure, was the magic answer. I dove in with both feet, becoming the longest Novice in history, watching all my friends become brothers, pretending that all of the abuse that was happening every day would magically end when I became a brother. Finally, the day arrived. In 5 days I would be a brother. Alas, I got angry, something I promised I would never do and was send back to Grenville. 6 mos of a hell that made everything else pale in comparison later, I walked out. April 6, 1986 I began my life. I joined this site really as a means to reach out to students who were hurt, but I realised to be genuine, I had to tell my story. I'm able to identify some of you and some may know who I am. My email is on a couple of other threads. Talk again soon, Dignityquest |
dignityquest
New member
Username: dignityquest
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 99.245.112.186
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:58 pm: |
|
Hi All: I see this thread hasn't been posted in a while, but I just found this amazing site a couple of days ago. I've posted on a few other threads. Particularly wanted to post here as there are many Community folks talking here and I've mostly talked about grenville so far. though I've talked in "generalities" I will get a little specific here about my story. I was sent to Grenville in Gr. 11 in 1973. (the usuall, problem child, though now I know that was BS) my Dad had died and my Mom looked for helped and Al & Mary Haig were the "helpers". By the middle of my Gr. 12 year, though never breaking a single rule, I was beaten twice with the famous paddle, the second time while held down by 3 men and so deeply bruised, that the 1st person who saw me immediatly vomited. For all this horror (and many others) after leaving at the end of Gr. 12, I returned 6 mos. later with my Mothere who decided to move there. This is a small indication of how incapable I was of clear independent thought. The next 8 yrs were the "life Corp" years (death corp is more accurate). routinely bouncing back and forth from being "in Jesus" to a disgrace to God and man. One day teaching and having a ball, next 6 mos on Discipline and removed from all I was good at. "Dark" session after dark session, slowly but surely destroying what I later learned was the lovely, creative, giving soul in me. Finally, at 26, I move to CofJ to become a Novice brother. This, I was sure, was the magic answer. I dove in with both feet, becoming the longest Novice in history, watching all my friends become brothers, pretending that all of the abuse that was happening every day would magically end when I became a brother. Finally, the day arrived. In 5 days I would be a brother. Alas, I got angry, something I promised I would never do and was send back to Grenville. 6 mos of a hell that made everything else pale in comparison later, I walked out. April 6, 1986 I began my life. I joined this site really as a means to reach out to students who were hurt, but I realised to be genuine, I had to tell my story. I'm able to identify some of you and some may know who I am. My email is on a couple of other threads. Talk again soon, Dignityquest |
bonnieb
New member
Username: bonnieb
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 74.46.208.160
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 9:10 pm: |
|
I've been reading the other threads but haven't wanted to participate since I had no experience with Grenville. But it's nice to see you over on the CoJ side...and it's been heartbreaking to read all of the stories from those of you from Grenville. Know that you are in my thoughts and that I'm sending lots of healing thoughts your way. |
seriouslyshocked
New member
Username: seriouslyshocked
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 72.1.212.201
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 1:24 pm: |
|
All I can say is WOW. I have been reading through a lot these posts and I am totally shocked and saddened by all of them. It is truly unbelievable to learn that GCC has been so horrible for so many people. The time I spent there definitely had it's ups and downs, but the downs were nothing compared to some of the stories so many of you have shared. I am so thankful that my mother made it very clear to that school that in the end SHE and only SHE was my mother and would ultimately decide what was best for me. It is obvious to me now, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but the staff were able to sniff out and distinguish between the students they could and could not get away with tormenting. |
seriouslyshocked
New member
Username: seriouslyshocked
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 72.1.212.201
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 1:26 pm: |
|
All I can say is WOW. I have been reading through a lot these posts and I am totally shocked and saddened by all of them. It is truly unbelievable to learn that GCC has been so horrible for so many people. The time I spent there definitely had it's ups and downs, but the downs were nothing compared to some of the stories so many of you have shared. I am so thankful that my mother made it very clear to that school that in the end SHE and only SHE was my mother and would ultimately decide what was best for me. It is obvious to me now, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but the staff were able to sniff out and distinguish between the students they could and could not get away with tormenting. |
gcc_1981_grad
New member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.48.65.37
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 12:19 pm: |
|
One day during lunch a representative from Children's Aid came to the school and was sitting at the head table with either the Haigs or the Farnsworths. After lunch she came into the kitchen and saw that me and my new friend were washing pots in silence. She asked what we were doing. I did not speak - as I was not allowed to speak to anyone except a staff member - my new friend however told the Children's Aid rep that we were being corrected. "For what?" - she asked. "For being wrong", he said. He then went on to say that I was also beat. She looked at me and said, "really?" and I said "yes" My new friend went on to say 'They beat him so bad that he bleed". "is that true?", she asked me. And I said "yes it is true - I could not sit down properly either". She left us after that. About one hour later an announcement came over the intercom system for me to report to the front office. I left my class and went to the front office expecting to get beat again. Instead of being beat Mr. Christmas pulled me aside just outside of the front office door and asked if I did bleed during my beatings. It was a very sober moment. This question seemed more loaded and sincere than any of the questions that were asked of me following a prayer. I knew that my answer would have huge ramifications. I said "yes, I did". Mr. Christmas gripped my shoulder and looked me hard in the eye. I went on to say "I had a zit on my butt and it popped". "A zit?" he repeated. I said "yes a zit". Mr. Christmas asked me to wait there and went into the front office. Through the office door I heard the word "zit" repeated by a few different voices. A few moments later Mr. Christmas returned and told me to go back to class. I continued moving in silence and I continued washing pots. Just before Christmas break, one of the teachers who had beat me came to me and told me that he had spoken to my parents. He had learned that what I had confessed before the beating was in fact true. He said that he was not sure what he was going to do with me, but would decide what he would do after Christmas. He never apologized for beating me. There were many different tactics used to try and get me to behave in the same way that I witnessed the table behaving during on of my first meals - quick to confess a sin, then quick to smile and get along with everyone. It became a very easy trick to learn. And I was given the role of a prefect.
After I left the school I did not contact anyone that had any associations with GCC. I removed the school from my resume and never told anyone that I went there. In fact I was ashamed of it. I felt it was petty and insignificant. I felt that although it claimed to have the correct path - it never really did understand the complexity and breath of experiences that is in on this earth. Instead it hides in a linear ideology that is similar to a dull witted beast. I wanted no part of it.
A few days ago I read the Globe and Mail article. There was an apology from Joan Childs. I instantly began to cry. It was wonderful to read that apology.
Children willingly give power to their teachers and adults. It is wrong when teachers and adults abuse this power. Mistakes will be made - there is no doubt of that. But hopefully schools and other institutions will provide enough transparency to allow society to act as a type of monitor to prevent wrong doings. There was no transparency at GCC. Transparency was removed so that the school could do what it felt it needed to do - educate kids into becoming leaders and god fearing Christians. Somehow in all of their gusto they forgot about humanity.
a student from the class of 1981 |
gcc_1981_grad
New member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.48.65.37
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 12:22 pm: |
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I grew up in the orient. I did attended a very good private school in the orient. I would have had no problem attended university graduating from this school. But I was every much involved in traffic drugs and felt it was more important to impress my friends and “get the girl”, than concentrate in my studies. Eventually I got into trouble with the law and was deported from the country. I h ad never “confessed these stories to anyone. I was merely living them and was not removed from them long enough to talk about them as a whole series of events. There was a lot to say. And I was a bit scared to talk about this, as just four months earlier I was involved with a very public international trial and was being questioned by the RCMP. When I entered the country to attend this school I was escorted off of the plane, stripped searched and told by the RCMP that I was going to watched very closely while I was in the country. I was not used to telling anyone any of my activities, as I believed doing so was very dangerous to my lively-hood. But I confessed everything to these two teachers in a limestone building just outside of Brockville, Ontario. I spoke of all the things that I had done or caused or was apart of. After I told them this story one of the teachers asked me to stand up and lean over the back of a chair. I was to hold on to the wooden arms of the chair. The other teacher hit me very hard with a piece of wood. I immediate spun around to hit him back. Put the other teacher forced my hands back onto the wooden arms of the chair. I was then repeatedly hit with the piece of wood.
After I was sufficiently beaten I was told to sit back down and confess. I did not know what to do. I did not know what to say. Then I was beat again. After the second beating I was told that the kid that I had bought beer for drank all the beer, stole a car and drove 100mpr though the streets of Brockville.
"What?", I thought
"What an idiot", I thought
"Why would any kid want to do something as stupid as that?", I thought.
But what I said was "what does that have to do with me?"
"You bought him the beer", I was told.
I remember thinking "So what".
I was then told that confessing a false sin that is larger in theme that what actually happened in order to belittle that actual sin is a much worse sin - much worse than confessing to the smaller sin. I did not really understand the math of their logic - but I was upset that god or jesus or who ever it was they these teachers were praying to at the beginning of our session did not let them know that what I had confessed was the truth. I was told to leave the room and go back to class - I was also told that I would lose all "privileges", placed on pots until I stop telling lies. I went back to my class and could not sit down, as the pain was too great. The teacher of the class looked at me, and she knew exactly what had happened. Sh | |
