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Message |
    
hanako
New member
Username: hanako
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 85.195.119.14
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 6:04 am: | 
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The following letter was sent from an attorney representing NTCC, to a company that provides anonymity for the owner(s) of ntccXposed.com. They registered the name of the website in their name, Domains By Proxy, instead of the name of an individual or group.
The letter is posted here in it’s entirety:
Domains by Proxy
ATTN: Legal Complaints
15111 N. Hayden Raod, Suite 160
PMB 353
Scottsdale, AZ 85260
RE: New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc.
Dear Sir or Madam:
This firm represents NTCCofA, Inc. We previously contacted you regarding a domain name registered by you on behalf of one of your clients (www.newtestamentchristianchurches.com). I sincerely appreciate your prompt attention to tha tmatter and helping us obtain a result that was favorable to me client.
Unfortunately, it appears that the harassment is not going to end so easily. Another domain name has been registered by your organization that is directed at my client. That domain name is www.ntccXposed.com. That web site contains numerous articles, allegedly written by a prior minister of my client, that directly refer to NTCC as a cult and provide other information that is critical, false, defamatory and derogatory.
According to section 4 of your proxy agreement, you have declared that you will terminate service and disclose identifying information if your services are being used to defame, embarrass, harm, abuse, threaten, or harass third parties, or to assist in the violation of state or federal laws of the US and/or foreign territories.
The information contained on the www.ntccXposed.com web site is not only harassing and defamatory but is also libelous. I therefore respectfully request that you immediately terminate the services of your client and disclose your client’s identifying information so that we may proceed with pursuing legal remedies against your client. Your prompt attention and assistance in this matter will be most appreciated.
Sincerely,
Douglas J. Lineberry
Douglas Lineberry
201 Saint Helens Avenue
Tacoma, WA 98402
http://www.lklawgroup.com
Email: doug@lklawgroup.com
Phone: 253-274-1400 |
curtiswaltermire
New member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.6.91
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 6:37 am: |
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Just an attempt at intimidation.
NTCC--are you sure you want to do this? |
tracy_pelfrey
Junior Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 44
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.229.248.195
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 7:35 am: |
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I'm going to email the Tacoma News Tribune with this information today.
Tracy |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 346
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
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This is a stupid move by NTCC that will backfire in their faces. The postings on ntccXposed.com fall under the substantial protection of the first amendment, and there is ample legal precedent sheltering such content. What they don't seem to understand is that they will certainly lose in the court of public opinion. When journalists start nosing around and interviewing people, the truth will be disseminated to the local community and it will be evident just what kind of organization this is. The social dynamic in the general population is quite different from that found inside the NTCC bubble, and if they think that normal people who look at this situation will side with their actions, they are mistaken. This will be interesting.
Vic Johanson |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 42
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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Dear Brian and Tracy Pelfrey;
The aforementioned letter is not an attempt to intimidate you whatsoever. The lawyer has examined your site and determined that indeed it is in direct violation of federal law and is not covered by 1st amendment protection, (even as the late breaking case of the website taken down by the supreme court because it was defamatory and libelous, intended to besmirch and tarnish the otherwise good reputation of a legal entity.)
It is not an attempt to acquire your domain names, neither the names of the people involved in the site, which I already know. I am aware of yours, Leah’s, Irma-Lisa’s involvement in the site, and Vic Johanson’s financial backing of the site. We are aware that another domain can always be started and there is no end to be found. You also own another domain name called NTCCsu**s, that could always be used if you choose.
I wanted you to know that there is no intention to bring a lawsuit against you at this time but that would be your decision. Rather I say to you “Mr. Gorbachev, take down the wall.” Take down the site, Tracy. This thing is eating you alive, and it shouldn’t be that way. You may not believe it, but when I read your words I am deeply saddened, for your sake.
Our hope is that Domains by Proxy will choose to take it down according to their own policy, simply because it is the right thing. If they don’t, that’s probably as far as it goes unless you want it to go farther.
I call upon you to demonstrate some honor and common decency, realizing that the site’s commentary with its surreal descriptions and cruel mockery is not only illegal but far from godly. If there is any Christianity in you at all, you will take down the site. I call upon YOU to do it. It is YOUR responsibility to act and demonstrate a true Christian spirit in this. For the sake of both sides, do the right thing.
As Gamaliel said, if this thing is of man it will come to nought, but if it is of God, and it is, you know the rest. Neither is that intended to intimidate, but it is true.
For what it's worth, MCK |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 347
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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"As Gamaliel said, if this thing is of man it will come to nought, but if it is of God, and it is, you know the rest."
I guess he said that right before he hired the attorney, right? If it IS of God, then why do you lean on the arm of flesh?
Vic Johanson |
tracy_pelfrey
Junior Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.229.253.195
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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I never said it was meant to intimidate us...but the one who put the site up in the first place...which is not Brian and Tracy Pelfrey. |
granite
New member
Username: granite
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 63.25.15.252
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 1:56 pm: |
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NTCC has absolutely no right to object to the site itself, only some of the content. Now anything posted on www.NTCCeXposed.com could also be said right here on good ol' FactNet. However, perhaps some provision should be made on that site for them to respond directly to the charges levied against them, if they so choose. If NTCC has objections, let it be done on a post-by-post basis. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 382
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
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"As Gamaliel said, if this thing is of man it will come to nought, but if it is of God, and it is, you know the rest."
Then why are you interferring?
Repeat:
(Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 12:17 pm)
"Everything has rules, (your job, your marriage, military, clubs, colleges and educational institutions have MANY)and ours are few. If they were so stupid, you shouldn't have been there nor agreed to them. Remember? The door is there?"
Publish them before they sign...
Well?
Hide them not from local attendees...
Well?
Fair challenge... fair response? |
worldsapart
New member
Username: worldsapart
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 85.195.119.22
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 3:38 pm: |
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The First Amendment protects a wide range of expression that many people do not like. Former U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Brennan wrote in the Court’s 1989 decision in Texas v. Johnson: “If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because it finds it offensive or disagreeable.”
I am sorry the information on ntccXposed.com offends you. That is too bad.
You do not have the right to censor anyone. Are you really prepared to expose your church like this. Are your sure you want to start flying above the radar? You cannot control what is not in your little kingdom. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 384
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 5:28 pm: |
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I am becoming more and more convinced, someone up there (Davis, Kekel) wants bad exposure... Wants the little kingdom to fall... Break apart... (They're 'up there', and I am 'out there'. Who's really better off? I think me, of course, because I think like me, and I really like me... Ha! See, I am really out there, and they are really up there!)
The motivations are not so important (Know they have a monstrosity that is finally killing themselves as well... want to take the money and run... get away from all that 'ministerial' stuff (Sort of like Samson)... whatever the reason...)
I mean, it's not like they have a real calling from God, or care for the sheep... it's just business, and they just probably want out...
(You can not be called of God into His ministry and do some the totally unscriptural, anti-Christian welfare, anti-Christ things they do. No more than we can be a Christian, and do some of the totally unscriptural, unloving things the world does...)
So, I'm thinking more and more it's a 'sink our own ship' bail out...
Either that, or as the Man said himself: Without the Lord, we would all be babbling baboons by morning... And, I have seen some really smart folks do some really stupid things to their own careers and households, when they really were fighting against the Lord and His little ones...
So, maybe they have just gotten so far up there in the higher air, that it's getting harder and harder to breathe right. And in going ape to hold and protect their position, they are really beginning to babble like battling baboons...
The question is: are they really this stupid, or just acting like it? Going after this other site, and letting it get exposed, and then saying: I really didn't mean it. So, please stop it... (?!?) It's like most the rest of mckcm's stuff. You just think, huh? (You know. Like my ol'buddy did with me! But at least I know I can really be out there. These folks don't even want to admit they are really up there!) |
granite
New member
Username: granite
Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 63.25.22.176
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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"Dare ANY of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? I speak to your shame. Is it so that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another... Nay, ye do wrong and defraud, and that your brethren."
- St. Paul to the Corinthian church
It is highly unbecoming to a professed Bible-practicing church group to resort to litigation before unbelievers to resolve differences with those to whom they were formerly for so long a time "knitted together in love." To persist and proceed would certainly serve to reveal what manner of spirit they are of. (Even apart from that, intimidation, threatening, bullying, ad hominem attacks, and trying to throw their bloated weight around is not exactly the emblem of a Christian spirit either!)
Will it be "NTLCC"? -- New Testament Litiginous Christian Church |
mark_g
Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 100
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
| | Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
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"Dare ANY of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? I speak to your shame. Is it so that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another... Nay, ye do wrong and defraud, and that your brethren."
Granite, You bring up an EXCELLENT point.
So, MCK, That having been said, WHY are you continuing this "Charade" of Strongarm tactics and Intimidation?
Any respect I had for the org., as well as you just went down the drain. Respectfully Submitted,
Mark |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 43
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:21 am: |
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Yes Sir, but that's only against other believers. |
letgodbetrue
Intermediate Member
Username: letgodbetrue
Post Number: 193
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 71.75.61.128
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:41 am: |
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Does it amaze nobody that Tracy is so openly hostile toward NTCC that she would seek to broadcast her grievances in the print media?
To borrow some language from the esteemed Granite (my words are in bold): It is highly unbecoming to a professed Bible-believing Christian to resort to making allegations before unbelievers in the press to resolve differences with those to whom they were formerly for so long a time "knitted together in love." To persist and proceed would certainly serve to reveal what manner of spirit they are of. (…. Tit-for-tat is not exactly the emblem of a Christian spirit either!)
To say, “I'm going to email the Tacoma News Tribune with this information today” smacks of retaliatory anger… not exactly turning the other cheek, now is it?
Angela Eury |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.253.200.23
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:04 am: |
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"Yes Sir, but that's only against other believers."-mck
How telling. See, MCK does not believe you are a Christian because you left NTCC. In his twisted version of Christianity, you aren't a believer if you don't pay tithe to NTCC and their chances of getting you back in their church are zero... therefore MCK is not bound by any scripture to try to be reasonable- you heathen!
LOL
NTCC shouldn't be worried about that website.
MCK's words on here are much more damaging.
To the person who runs ntccXposed.com (great site, BTW), can I suggest a disclaimer? Just a legal link at the bottom that the website is the opinion of its authors, etc etc etc… looks like NTCC is heading the way of the Scientologists and is going to start suing everyone who disagrees with them. |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.253.200.23
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:49 am: |
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LOL}
Okay, maybe this has already been mentioned since I don't read 90% of what is posted, but has anyone else seen the Wikipedia article on NTCC is under mediation? NTCC is becoming like the SCIENTOLOGISTS.
Ha! If you can't beat them with truth, sue them! |
mark_g
Intermediate Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 101
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:31 am: |
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"Yes Sir, but that's only against other believers."
That is a very revealing sentence.
"NTCC shouldn't be worried about that website.
MCK's words on here are much more damaging".
AMEN, AMEN.....AMEN!!!!!! |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 44
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 3:22 am: |
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I beg your pardon, there are many Christians around this world who are not of the same church group but of the body of Christ. The reason for my assessment of you people is because of how you live and what you say. We have always believed and preached that, but you can't accept it. When you walk away and start telling lies, misleading, etc. then you are saved? He that doeth righteousness is born of God, (I John) and the site is wicked, distorted and smacks of a Stephen King novel. Surreal, deceptive, unstable and shifting assertions. If you would like I can share some of the emails from one of the webmasters who purposely mislead me in order to gain access to our NTCC group and get a Trumpet subscription. She failed. Why did she want it,to share a blessing? No, to exploit it and mock it. That's somehow just not dishonest in some people's book. For some reason when evil and blasphemy suits your purposes, sin is not sin any longer, you resort to flinging insults and mockery. That's ok, it's part of the reproach of Christ, I fully understand such mental compensatory maneuvers.
And the Wikepedia is written by people who don't know what they're talking about, and can't get it right. Yes Mark, that sentence is very revealing indeed. If you are Christians, you will take down the site yourselves. Linda Smit is the owner of the site, and by smooth words has convinced Tracy Pelfrey that she is a modern day Esther, but the story of Esther shows what happened to the one that wanted to hang everyone.
Tracy, be careful. When it is to her advantage, you will mean nothing. She is using you because she doesn't want to have her name in it any more than necessary for political reasons. Take down the wall Linda. |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.253.200.23
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 3:33 am: |
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"the site is wicked, distorted and smacks of a Stephen King novel. Surreal, deceptive, unstable and shifting assertions."-mck
Aren't we being a little melodramatic, eh? I thought the site was pretty right on of my experience there, but I have never been to the compound in all fairness.
BTW, the term "you people" is not very nice. At least say what you really mean: You heathens. You devils.
Oh, and tell me, if your church is so benign, why is there a support group for ex members? I have never seen a support group for ex methodists (maybe there is an obscure one), or for ex presbyterians, or ex lutherans, or ex baptists... there are some for former Catholics but that is mainly a molestation thing. Get my point? |
worldsapart
New member
Username: worldsapart
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 85.195.119.22
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 6:07 am: |
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Boy Kekel, you are scared! How melodramatic. I am surprised you did not compare her to Deborah...:"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand [ntcc] over to a woman."
1st of all, if the owner of that domain name wished to be private, and you ignored that privacy, you have violated her right to remain anonymous and now she has grounds to sue you. Fortunately for you, what little I know about her, she would not stoop to your level.
2nd, you continually refer to lies on the subject web site. Can you PROVE that they are lies? It seems to me that every time you post on factnet and dance around questions, throw accusations, and then always backtrack to defend your words, you PROVE the content of that site to be true.
Why don't you trust people to decide for themselves? Why don't you allow them to read the information and then come to you to find out for themselves if it is true? Oh, my bad, that's right, you don't allow people to ask questions. You don't want people to be free thinkers and be self educated in all things. You like to keep people ignorant and dependent on you. Your members are dependant, your ministers are dependant, you board of directors does nothing without Davis' permission (or yours).
Just because men and women have separated themselves from the bottle you fee them, does not mean they are no believers. Are you GOD? Because you claim to be by issuing statements like this:
quote:"Yes Sir, but that's only against other believers."-mck
Guess what, the emperor is naked and you keep wanting people to see those beautiful golden threads. Keep it up, your doing a great job of helping people find the truth. |
tracy_pelfrey
Junior Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.229.250.127
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 6:08 am: |
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Angela,
You have twisted my words and purpose. But, I understand, being as you are operating with limited knowledge...and you are just going by what I posted...I'll give you that. No problem. I will make it more clear...my post concerning the media...on the blog. When I have time.
Is it retaliatory to bring legal proceedings against those that warn others of this group and their harmful tactics? Is it retaliatory to express in a public forum our experiences so as to alert others? Is that retaliatory?
I guess to some it is and to some it is not.
So...I don't expect you to understand that when a company with a lot of money goes after those that voice opposition...and don't have a lot of money...that they should take it to the next level and talk to the media? I've not hidden my agenda...I want to warn others to stay away from this crowd. If it means going to the News Tribune of Tacoma to do so, then I will...and am.
There really isn't anything odd about going to the newspapers. If NTCC wants to "shut down" any forum that exposes them...then it sends us elsewhere...it is just as simple as that. The threat is not coming from us Angela. I didn't hire a lawyer. I just operate a stupid blog filled with lies.
Tracy |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 361
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 6:54 am: |
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Quote
If you would like I can share some of the emails from one of the webmasters who purposely mislead me in order to gain access to our NTCC group and get a Trumpet subscription. She failed. Why did she want it,to share a blessing? No, to exploit it and mock it. That's somehow just not dishonest in some people's book. For some reason when evil and blasphemy suits your purposes, sin is not sin any longer, you resort to flinging insults and mockery. That's ok, it's part of the reproach of Christ, I fully understand such mental compensatory maneuvers.
I wonder which NTCCer did the same to Linda's ntcc_support group? If you go by the above quoted statement (which I agree with - lying is lying and attempting to join a group under false pretenses IS a lie), then which NTCCer is a liar? Obviously, there is a mole in that group because of alot of the things mck and other ntccers have said in recent months could not have been said unless they had someone on "the inside." I guarantee there is an NTCC mole in the support group at this time.
Bro Marc Perez |
granite
New member
Username: granite
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 63.25.6.214
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 9:33 am: |
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"I beg your pardon, there are many Christians around this world who are not of the same church group but of the body of Christ."
I often wonder who these mythical people are. NTCC often makes reference to them, but never identifies others who they consider to be saved and working for the Lord as they are. It brings to mind Darwin's "missing link."
In the NTCC by-laws, 80-90% of which were copied verbatim from the Pentecostal Church of God handbook, in Article XVII (D), there is a borrowed statement which is a joke when applied to NTCC: "We shall not be confined in our fellowship and cooperation to those affiliated with us, and we shall not discriminate against any other member of the body of Christ."
That is so patently false as to be laughable. Discrimination is right here and right now!
"the Wikepedia is written by people who don't know what they're talking about, and can't get it right.
You're a liar, sir. We have compiled proof and corroboration from a wide range of sources for every word of every sentence in the Wikipedia article! Dozens have contributed, both in and out of NTCC, some with knowledge and experience predating yours by 10 years, as well as independent Wikipedia researchers. Senior ministers' wives have kept in touch, and you would be amazed if you only knew! Granted, it contains several facts which NTCC would prefer to conceal if they still could. But saving only for the high estimate membership figure, which I would invite you to revise (since NTCC is so very fond of its weekly numbers), the information contained therein is factual and indisputable. Every doubt has been dissolved, and there has been no activity on the NTCC discussion page for over a month. For those who may not have seen it yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament_christian_churches |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 365
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.229.0.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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Quote
"I beg your pardon, there are many Christians around this world who are not of the same church group but of the body of Christ."
Yet there is more to this quote than meets the eye. Many times we have heard that they have found no other organization that is not a bunch of compromisers...but there are a few individuals here and there that don't know any better and live by faith and are right with God. YET IF THEY KNEW OF US/MET US, THEN THEY'D COME BECAUSE GOD WOULD LEAD THEM.....AND IF THEY LEAVE, THEN THEY WEREN'T OF US.
Isn't that the way it is?
Bro Marc Perez |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 45
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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Liar...I think you should retract that strong statement please. Some of the information on Wikepedia is not correct, some is. You and Hanako are involved in that Les Rinehart, and have mingled yourself with certain ones who would have been factnetters back in the 6os if Factnet had been there. You and Hanako, (who should realize that Figueroa was a denisite, and not what God wanted) are not qualified to write an objective history of any church, and there is nothing to conceal. That really isn't your business anyway, and why if you are Christians, would you try to discredit a church, whether the church is right or wrong? Why are you digging around anyway, will it help you to beat someone out in an election? Everyone has "junk" in their past, including you....
I have concealed what Pop Gaylord thought of you. A friend concealeth a matter, right? Perhaps you would like to know, since (according to him) you called him more than once badgering him about his past marriage...You wouldn't have some of your twisted views of scripture if you had stayed away from the ULTRA HARD holiness group in Illinois. That's where you got your unmercifully hard line against remarriage, and you have bought into statments made about our teachings that are absolute lies, many of which are on the Xposed site, without verifying them. So you owe me an apology for that one son.
Perhaps you might care to explore the definition of discrimination. There are people of other denominations even that various ones fellowship with, even a Catholic or two. (I would be better off fellowshipping with a muslim in some cases) But when you are a poisonous influence, even the scripture rejects the idea of mingling. Your outside fellowship is what messed up your thinking. So let me ask , you yourself really don't think many of these Factnet people are saved now, do you?
You have one side, the postings of MYSHOFAR saying that we are responsible for her lousy marriage because we didn't intervene to stop it, and others saying we break them up. Someone please make up your mind here. Truly, these matters are between people and God, and it's wrong for you to judge if someone should be remarried or not, when you don't even know the details of what happened and where they fit in with the scriptures concerning the God given right to be free in some cases. I have seen all this stuff about marriages from all of you self appointed counselors, and you don't even know or want to consider the adultery involved, the desertion and etc. With all due respect you should mind your own business, as we try to do in ALL cases.
Let's ask Mark....G. Mark, did Pop Gaylord go to hell? He was remarried you know...before he got saved. |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 46
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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No Marc it's not the way it is |
mark_g
Intermediate Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 102
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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"Let's ask Mark....G. Mark, did Pop Gaylord go to hell? He was remarried you know...before he got saved". (Your quote)
Ok, MCK, I challenge you, Right here and right now..........
Where did I ever say anything on any Thread about Divorce and remarrage?
Show me ONE PLACE, at any given time.
What I HAVE SAID in the past is that it is something that I'm not going to touch with a ten foot pole.
MCK, You would have been better off to have just remained off Factnet altogether. You really had no intention of coming out here to answer questions honestly. Everything that you have done out here, or started out here has been done in duplicity from the very beginning. I wouldn't even use the term "Clintonesque" to describe your answers. At Least Bill could make what he said SOUND like the truth. You don't even do that.
With MCK out here "Trying" to represent NTCC, Who needs Factnet? He does a much better job at damaging HIS organization than any of us could ever do.
I have another question for you. It's a "yes" or a "no" answer.
Were you Whirlwind, at any given time or place on Factnet, or anywhere on any Website?
Mike, a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice. Mark |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 348
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
|
"I have another question for you. It's a "yes" or a "no" answer.
Were you Whirlwind, at any given time or place on Factnet, or anywhere on any Website?
Mike, a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice. Mark"
I hope you aren't holding your breath. I asked him personally weeks ago, but only got a tap dancing performance in response. How about it, Mike?
Vic Johanson |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 47
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Hi Angie; Can you see what I mean? Just like the thing on her blog about "using the children" she flies into the "victim" thing. They are like Democrats flying mad while some non-descript person's name in the CIA is leaked, but say nothing as Clinton gives away nuclear secrets and uses his desk for the wrong things. Selective protest.
Getting a lawyer is fine, when federal law has been violated. Plus, you didn't read my first post in this thread. I'm calling on you to take down the libelous site, or a peacful resolution would be to take out the personal names.
Setting up a blog with lies against someone's character is wrong, and isn't a defensive maneuver. It is thinly veiled in claims of being "helpful" while designed to destroy an otherwise good reputation. Establishing a web site for this purpose is aggressive behavior, not defensive. The church is the victim here, Christ crucified afresh. The Pharisees ride again with trick questions, deceptive inquiries and gnashing teeth.
Yes, to whoever asked, I can prove what I say. There is also another lawyer wanting to go after her blog for it's libelous content, who does not represent NTCC but an individual. I also have two pages about the Fener thing, and how Tracy used it to imply things that were not true about the church. Not to mention his and her "secret" emails to pastor's wives, planning how to pull the pastor down.
In addition Marc Perez, it's Linda Smit's problem who she lets in her group Marc...lame comparison. I will send to you at your email this info if you like? You can see how this would-be NTCC Family member, (which is not a support group at all, and is up to almost 100 members having a great time and really not wanting to talk about you,)created a lie. But so what. |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 349
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
|
Mike, I didn't see anything in there about the identity of Whirlwind; we're still waiting with unbated breath...
Vic Johanson |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 209.193.57.83
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
|
Dear Rev. Kekel
I noticed you said that the web site ntccXposed lied about NTCC. Just a suggestion here, but I believe that this statement would have a lot more credibility if you simply posted an example of one of these lies for all the world to see, don't you think? |
mckncheese
New member
Username: mckncheese
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 66.90.101.207
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
|
Mike,
You\'re wasting your breath by continuing to ask Tracy to take down the site...she has no ability or authority to do so. She wouldn\'t be able to get it taken down no matter what she tries.
Looks like you both have something in common after all. |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 367
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.229.0.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:04 pm: |
|
Thanks, Mike, for the honest answer regarding the family member joining the ntcc_support group, etc.
BTW - I also find it believable that I'm not talked about in the group. Even when I was in, there wasn't a whole lot of talk about ex members that I had heard of. Also, I'm sure you've cracked a joke or two in the process. On another thread where I made some vital suggestions for NTCC, I actually listed some of your strengths. I had inadvertently left out your humor. I used to laugh at yours and RWD's jokes the most, if you remember.
Bro Marc Perez |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 388
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:06 pm: |
|
"I beg your pardon, there are many Christians around this world who are not of the same church group but of the body of Christ."
Around the world, but not in America...
Repeat #1:
Is there any other church to attend, who chooses not to attend yours, that is also used of God to serve His people? Give names...
Are there any other ministers, who choose not to minister in your organization, who are also serving God's people by His ministry? Give names...
"You should have stayed away from that ULTRA HARD holiness group in Illinois."
But we are only just HARD in Graham... (Davis, anyway... Kekel is just hanging out in appearance waiting... waiting... waiting... "When will the ball be mine?? Mine! ALL MINE!!" Yeahahahahahaha!!!)
"So long as he continues to live a Christian life, he will continue to be God's choice!"
Davis' ultimate statement of FAMILY qualification for God's choice of His new Leader over His modern-day Organization on earth... Maintaining the current outward appearance requirements of Pentecostal holiness...
REPEAT #2:
"Everything has rules, (your job, your marriage, military, clubs, colleges and educational institutions have MANY)and ours are few. If they were so stupid, you shouldn't have been there nor agreed to them. Remember? The door is there?"
Publish them before they sign...
Well?
Hide them not from local attendees...
Well?
Fair challenge... fair response?
"I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose, nor a garden..." |
granite
Junior Member
Username: granite
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 63.25.119.161
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
|
Pop Gaylord being divorced and remarried is news to me, but apparently he assumed I knew. In no way does that diminish my love and respect for him, and God is his judge, not me or anyone else.
I retract the liar label and apologize, but it is disingenuous to impugn the veracity of the Wikipedia article. It is simply solid facts that I dearly wish I had known and understood before investing such a large chunk of time into NTCC. Its only purpose is to educate, not to defame. |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:16 pm: |
|
I also apologize to you Les, I was wrong, I think. If you say you didn't know..I believe you. It was about the issue of divorce and remarriage, not HIS divorce. Sorry. |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 368
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.229.0.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:29 pm: |
|
I didn't know he was divorced and remarried either. I didn't see the original posts of Pop's original divorce. Where was the post? Must have been a different thread.
Bro Marc Perez |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 389
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:09 pm: |
|
Liar? Who? mckymouse-n-cheese? No way, man! Never! Not even ever would he lie, cheat, steal, nor even allow any appearance of such intentional misleading to appear anywhere, anytime! This guy is straight! Super-straight! So straight, he's hard! Though, not ultra-hard...
This is the same sincerity-invested guy that responded to a direct question before the board (father-in-law's personnel office) about something he had said, with this:
"Those words never passed through these lips..."
Now, here is some real Scientology for you (Use of science to deny the Truth, while making a lie...)
The epidermis of the skin passes off as dead skin cells (dust to dust), and is replaced by entirely new skin cells. So, in Scientific fact, a whole new outer body surface replaces the old: Completely new arms, legs, cheeks, and... lips! and, therefore, in Literal fact (in letter, if not in deed), no such words spoken before such an outer skin replacement actually passed through these lips. (Notice he did not respond with a yes/no answer to a yes/no question: the first step of deception, avoidance, etc...) Nor, did he say: my lips, because that could technically cover the lips he was born with and so possessed since birth...
Ain't that just the most nifty thing around?? Ha! Man, now that is really good. As good as Lucifer gets, almost...
Now, you don't think for a moment these guys would be smart or cagey enough to do such things? No man! A thousand times no! Their business is legit, man! We're the ones with the problem, don't we know that?? We're just too accusative and too suspicious for our own good, man! mckanics-man Mike ain't that smart, is he?? Nah... He's kool, he's kute, he's Kekel-the-Kid! (Yea! Yippee! Go Mikey go!!) |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 49
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:24 pm: |
|
Bless Bob...... |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 392
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:35 pm: |
|
Getting close, eh?
(Although with prayer and the good faith of Jesus, I do not allow myself to get stuck with it, anymore...) |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 393
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
|
Do you chieftains realize how many bad tears you have, and do cause on the least of God's people, and thereofre most on the face of Jesus?
I believe it is quite provable in Scripture that all such tears shall be wiped from such faces, and cast into the lake of fire, which is consituted of such bad things.
So that, consequently, they who persisted in sowing such to the end, shall also likewise reap such in the fire...
You're going to warn people against true accusation, spoken plainly? (Ha... what a joke...)
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars... (Rev 2:2) |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 372
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.229.0.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
|
MCKEKEL is saying "Bless Bob" cuz you was acting kooky. LOL Have you taken your meds today?
LOL...just teasing you, Rangerbob
Bro Marc Perez |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 395
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:16 pm: |
|
Mr Kekel:
Unfortunately, I am not allowed by the Word of the Lord to return your salutation (However intended). (Rom 16:17)(2 John 10)
Neither are you & yours' a brother to me, nor the friend of my God. Neither are any such who continue to wilfully practice in and profit from the filthy-dreaming business you engage in daily. By your efforts, the sheep do die daily, hair by hair, limb by limb, fleece by fleece...
So, tell me, Mr Kekel. Is that lake filled with the tears of the least, and is that fire fueled thereby? |
mark_g
Intermediate Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 103
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:32 pm: |
|
MCK.......
I'll ask you again, Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first question?
Were you ever, or have you ever been Whirlwind?
_yes _no
Mike, All you have to do is fill in the blank(s) |
mck
Junior Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 50
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 5:57 pm: |
|
Does he really take meds Marc? I'm asking. He's right, I'm not brother to him or to the god of this world.
So I guess Linda, Leah, Irma, Brian, Tracy and Vic/ Mick aren't going to do the right thing and take down the site, is all this a "NO" or a distraction?? I'm asking.....As if I thought you would. Just wanted to get the testimony of your responses on record folks, for all to see, I do thank you. I have never flattered myself by thinking to persuade you at all. I told you that mark_g, in the beginning.
Bob represents what the rest are, but they conceal it in subtlety. They will not say it in the way he does. Bob, you are the embodiment of the lot, filled with jealousy, disdain, hatred, sarcasm, mockery, works of the flesh. I'm not saying that to strike at you sir, and that's not CODE. Not to be disrespectful, but I feel for you folks, that you have been reduced to this level. Someone stands up to you and you crumble and run, having nothing to stand on that is good. That's ok, I have made my point very well, for the record. |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 375
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.229.0.250
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 6:07 pm: |
|
I was only joking, Mike. I totally posted that off the cuff (without his knowledge...for he's at home and I'm at work).
I know he was serious in his post and made some valid points, but I was poking fun at his funny noise (something like yehahahah, I guess).
Bro Marc Perez |
mklo
Intermediate Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 122
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 9:02 pm: |
|
quote:That's ok, I have made my point very well, for the record.
That's an understatement.
Ball's in Pastor's court, brother. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 397
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
|
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoaaaa... Hold on their Kid-boy. Don't go saddlin' them good folks with the likes of me. No way, Jose'. Na-ah. No can do little boy-in-law blue!
Ain't none of 'em as vicious, sarcastic, self-serving, demented, 'out there', etc...,etc... as I. So, you leave them folks alone. Why do you Queen-guys of the church-business world always have to paint all the people that don't attend to you (boot-licking up your queen-bee substance) with a sweeping brush of dismissal and condemnation for disloyalty? Really?
"So I guess Linda, Leah, Irma, Brian, Tracy and Vic/ Mick.." The honor roll, as declared by Keekel!
Remember: With some folks, it's an honor to be considered no good. (After all, Satan has been calling the Lord no good, ever since he was judged and named anew for what he was!)
And so, in this case: Thou art named anew for what you are by many infallible proofs of the Word of the Lord upon your teachings, deeds, and manners of ministering: Nicolaitanes. Soul-Conquerors. Hierarchical builders of churches, that are run more as synaguoges of Satan, rather than assemblies for the saints of God.
Though I am not filled with hatred, yet truly Jesus and I do hate the deeds and the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. Doubly-condemned, more so than the Balaams and Jezebels in the world of false ministers & corruption. (Rev 2:6,15)
"I feel for you folks, that you have been reduced to this level."
That's the whole point! We do the best we can not to descend to the level you insincere, vacant, false accusers deliberately try to take this net to.
You were treated with the utmost respect, and immediately granted the benefit of sincerity, until you proved your own self to truly be the empty head of the falsified faithful, that came before you to not do well, but only to try and do harm. It is not enough to control your own org, but you just got to try and control all others as well... The Saulistas that have yet to see the Light on the road to Damascus to try and trample upon the least who have fled for safety, refuge, and speaking their peace, as is our right! Which Davis &/or you no longer give, therefore cannot take away!
But, it will go no further. You were in a corner, and you think Marky gave you an out, but... not! We will continue to put the repeatedly unanswered legitimate questions to you, so long as you wish to play your same game on another playing board. But this board ain't yours', nor mine, nor any person's to possess nor control...
REPEATS:
1)Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:31 am:
“Were you Whirlwind, at any given time or place on Factnet, or anywhere on any Website?"
2) Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 12:17 pm:
"Everything has rules, (your job, your marriage, military, clubs, colleges and educational institutions have MANY)and ours are few. If they were so stupid, you shouldn't have been there nor agreed to them. Remember? The door is there?"
Publish them before they sign...
Well?
Hide them not from local attendees...
Well?
Fair challenge... fair response?
3)Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:09 am:
"Is there any other church to attend, who chooses not to attend yours, that is also used of God to serve His people? Give names...
Are there any other ministers, who choose not to minister in your organization, who are also serving God's people by His ministry? Give names...
Answer thou us, and we will answer thee... (Mark 11:29) |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 378
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 9:46 pm: |
|
Quote
and you think Marky gave you an out, but... not
-----------------------------------------------
Oh really, BudlightBob? If you're sooooo convinced of that, then bet me a $100 that MCKEKEL was thinking what you accuse him of (that I gave him an out)....put your money where your mouth is cuz I know you're wrong by overanalysis in that point only. The other stuff is fine.
Bro Marc Perez |
mark_g
Intermediate Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 104
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 9:52 pm: |
|
MCK.......
"I'll ask you again, Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first question"?
"Were you ever, or have you ever been Whirlwind"?
_yes _no
Mike, All you have to do is fill in the blank(s)
Ok, Mike, How about this.......
1 grunt if you are Whirlwind.....
2 grunts if you are not......
Mark |
lighthouses
New member
Username: lighthouses
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.143.42.194
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 10:08 pm: |
|
Quote:
I also have two pages about the Fener thing, and how Tracy used it to imply things that were not true about the church. Not to mention his and her "secret" emails to pastor's wives, planning how to pull the pastor down.
Hello Rev. Kekel,
I was just reading your posting where you were talking about having two pages about the Fener thing. I am not sure what you are talking about there. There has been a thread on here baring our names and I responded to that and asked who ever the poster was to please not post our names on here. I am also asking the same of you.
You also made a comment about his and her private emails to pastor's wives. I am not for sure who you are referring to. Neither I or my husband have emailed any pastor's wives. Maybe I misunderstood the posting and if so I apologize for that. Thank you for your time and God bless you and your family. My personal email is nancyfener@yahoo.com.
Sincerely,
Nancy Fener |
mck
Member
Username: mck
Post Number: 51
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 24.22.213.75
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
|
Hi Nancy; My email is down right now, but I was referring to Tracy's private emails not yours, and her use of you (without name) on her blog.
Oh and Wadsworth, you can see examples that you requested at the xposed site. |
curtiswaltermire
New member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.7.164
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
|
Rev. Kekel made the statement that the articles on ntccXposed website "smacks" of a Stephen King novel.
With all due respect sir, that is a ridiculous and exaggerated statement.
The Stephen King novels are nowhere NEAR as scary...
It is said that "truth is stranger than fiction."
I believe that it is also far more horrifying.
Stephen King writes fiction. |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.253.200.23
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:17 pm: |
|
"That's ok, I have made my point very well, for the record."-mck
Point? Okay--- either I am retarded (which I am quite certain I am not), or this guy is so full of hot air that he should be floating off somewhere by now?(Am I the only one that is embarrassed that we were ever so desperate, ever so foolish to follow this person? )
MCK, I am addressing you directly, which you seem to conveniently ignore because you cannot believe anyone would stand up to you on your high horse or throne or whatever you like. Do you really believe the garbage you write here or do you just assume we are illiterate since we were once faithful to your church? Are you so used to herding stupid cows that you cannot believe one would be led away by personal conviction?
You sir, are the embodiment of what is wrong with Christianity. You smile, well groomed and call us "brothers" and "sisters," until we disagree with you. Regardless of how civilly we do it, the moment you and yours are dare questioned you simply cannot handle it. Your only mode of defense is to write us off, not even to wish us well! What a lousy brother!
NTCC is a breeding mill of "bad church experiences." If you don't like the bad publicity and bad web exposure, then stop doing bad things! I know that I, for one, am not a liar and for the most part the people here seem to be consistent.
You, on the other hand, are not. First, you complain about that website. Then, you yield and say if only they would remove the names. Then, you bring people's names into the discussion who asked quite fairly to be left alone?!?!?!?! Nice. Real nice. I hardly ever read this thing and I knew they wanted to be left alone... I have no doubt you simply ignored their request because you know better.
They aren't the first people who you have betrayed their trust. I can think of at least three examples of where you have spilled dirt you knew on someone by pastoral privilege or by gossip on here just to win an argument.} Isn’t it funny how the Catholics get so much flack, yet a priest can never reveal what is told to him in confidence, even if the person leaves the faith?!?!?!?!
I only met you once.
That was quite enough, thank you. |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.21.229
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:46 pm: |
|
quote:Mike, I didn't see anything in there about the identity of Whirlwind; we're still waiting with unbated breath...
Vic Johanson
quote:MCK.......
"I'll ask you again, Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first question"?
"Were you ever, or have you ever been Whirlwind"?
_yes _no
Mike, All you have to do is fill in the blank(s)
Ok, Mike, How about this.......
1 grunt if you are Whirlwind.....
2 grunts if you are not......
Mark
Well, fellas, If he's not, I would have thought that the answer to your question (a Yes or a No) would be the first thing Mike would want to provide in this thread. After all, Whirlwind said some really nasty stuff, and what godly man would, by a failure to deny it, wish for such a wicked reputation? As many times as the question has been asked, it's not even plausible to believe that Mike hasn't read it, or that it hasn't impressed him as being important enough to make a concerted effort to answer. My guess is that he will now suggest that this is the first he's noticed the question, and will talk about that, but will then fail, once again, to answer Yes or No to the question itself. At least he's been honest enough, to date, not to deny it. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 399
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 12:32 am: |
|
"Point? Okay--- either I am retarded (which I am quite certain I am not), or this guy is so full of hot air that he should be floating off somewhere by now?(Am I the only one that is embarrassed that we were ever so desperate, ever so foolish to follow this person?"
Me! Me! I was! I was! I was a real fool! Why do you think I need meds, now?!? |
hanako
New member
Username: hanako
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 85.195.119.14
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
|
For the record, I would like to add the original letter from NTCC's attorney to this thread. The letter at the top of this thread is actually the second letter, and second time this happened. (May 2006)
For reference purposes, here is the first letter (Jan 2006):
RE: New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc.
Dear Sir or Madam:
This firm represnts New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. My client has contacted me regarding a domain name registered by you on behalf of one of your clients. The domain name is www.newtestamentchristianchurches.com.
My client was incorporated in August 1987 and has continuously used the name "New Testament Christian Churches" to identify itself. It claims that the name as its trade name.
The persons that have recently registered www.newtestamentchristianchurches.com as a domain name are not officers or members of my client. According to their web site, they are "Ex-members, providing basic information about the church to those interested." To date, their web site has no content other than a link to FACTnet.org, where various individuals post information critical, defamatory and derogatory about my client.
According to section 4 of your proxy agreement, you have declared that you will terminate service and disclose identifying information if your services are being used to defame, embarass, harm, abuse, threaten, or harass third parties, or to assist in the violation of state or federal laws of the United States and/or foreign territories.
The use of my client's trade name by your client to create a web site whose only purpose is to post and link to information that is critical, defamatory and derogatory with respect to my client is clearly a use that falls within the above description. Moreover, as my client claims the name New Testament Christian Churches as a trade name, the use of that name by a third party violates the federal Anti-Cyber squatting Consumer Protection Act.
I therefore respectfully request that you immediately terminate the services of your client and disclose your client's identifying information so that we may proceed with pursuing legal remedies against your client and acquiring the domain name that your client has illegally appropriated. Your prompt attention and assistance in this matter will be most appreciated.
Sincerely,
Douglas Lineberry |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 401
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
|
"It claims that the name as its trade name."
I don't know if this guy is a real attorney or not. Did he, or some secretary proof-read his stuff? I think he should have said: It claims 'that name' as its trade name....
If an accusation is proven false, then the original judgment is likely also to be bad. So,here, since the original grammar is bad, maybe the whole case is false?
(A medium-sized joke for levity's sake...) |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 402
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
|
May I continue in my folly? (Please do... Thanks, Snerdly!
...officers or members of my client...
Not any more, but they certainly do still have officers and privates of his client: Davis! and his client-in-law: Kekelly!
...to identify itself. It claims that the name as its trade name...
Man, this one has loads! Itself? It? It's? Hey, what 's all this 'It' Stuff? You mean Davis, right? Isn't Davis the 'It' here? Is he not 'It', the whole 'It', and nothing but the 'It'?? Is he not the Big 'It'? No, I did not say, BigOt, but rather Big 'It'! May, we not now legally call him BigIt? Mr BigIt? Sounds sorta Mobbish, don't 'It'? A real FAMILY racket? With their own lawyers and everything to put the squeeze on the little guys? Hey, maybe Mr Lineberry is their consigliore, their own legal Hitberry?
(I left out the offensive name itself, because I am refusing to descend anymore to their level, even if they do come back for more...)
Hey, Hitberry! It's not that 'the name', but that name! What is he using? a copied form or something? Does he do a lot of this stuff for wanna-be world dominators, and just fills in the blanks? |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 38
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.230.101.234
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 2:29 pm: |
|
Dear Rev. Kekel
I took another look at the Xposed site to find the lies that are supposed to be sown there. The only thing I was able to find was a pretty darn acurate description of NTCC. If it would not be too much trouble I would kindly request that maybe just one example of a lie on ntccXposed be posted by you. I feel that doing so would benefit you and NTCC because then there would no longer just be acusations of ntccXposed lying about NTCC, but there would be proof. A lie posted here on factnet would surely silence all opposition, and gain you and NTCC a great deal of credibility. I encourage you to do so, since you have much to gain by it. |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.100
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 6:51 pm: |
|
Mike, I've been trying to be reserved in my approach to you, but here, in this thread, you talk like a man with a paper hat:
quote:As Gamaliel said, if this thing is of man it will come to nought, but if it is of God, and it is, you know the rest. Neither is that intended to intimidate, but it is true.
Gamaliel's point was that the Sanhedrin did not need to pursue the matter, that God was perfectly capable of handling matters for Himself without the help of religious leaders. But clearly the leaders of the NTCC did not consider that when they hired a lawyer. Granite rightly provided this scriptural corrective to the NTCC's leaders decision to call in a lawyer:
quote:"Dare ANY of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? I speak to your shame. Is it so that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another... Nay, ye do wrong and defraud, and that your brethren."
- St. Paul to the Corinthian church
Your reply to that, however, was pathetic:
quote:Yes Sir, but that's only against other believers.
Are you really so lame as to suppose that because some have strong differences of opinion about your organization that they are not brethren? Do you really think you are capable of determining who among those who claim the name of Christ as their Savior is a saint and who is not? Or is this an admission that you're not a saint, yourself? I suspect it's the former, which really is a wicked thing to assume. Paul did not assume this about the Corinthians, even, who I suspect were much more deeply engaged in wickedness than your enemies at ntccXposed! |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 63
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.100
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 7:01 pm: |
|
Mike, this is to continue my last post. . .
Moreover, Jesus teaching more than covers whatever might be lacking in the apostle Paul's words regarding taking Christians to court:
quote:"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. . . But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
-- Matthew 5:38-39 & 44-47 (NASB)
I suspect the readers of the Tacoma News Tribune will recognize that suing people who disagree with you is out of harmony with the idea of turning to them the other cheek. Indeed, to sue an unbeliever, especially one who is critical of your "ministry," turns Jesus' beatitude upon it's head, for your attitude seems to be:
quote:"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs shall be huge awards in the courts. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in the court system shall be great. . ."
-- Matthew 5:10-12 (My Own Paraphrase)
But worse than talking like a man with a paper hat, your refusal to answer with a simple Yes or No, the frequently repeated question, "Have you ever posted as Whirlwind here at FACTNet?" makes it appears that you are indeed he of Whirlwind infamy, a verbally abusive attacker of young women and infants that have not even been involved in attacking you or your kingdom. |
myshofar
New member
Username: myshofar
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 67.160.27.214
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 1:13 am: |
|
Dear MCK,
I though you might be interested in this, since you referenced me in an earlier post on this thread.
My lousy marriage is being healed, and though ours was a second marriage for my husband, we have repented of being covenant-breakers, and have found forgiveness from being adulterers, according to the Word, this way.
We learned that the heart of the commandment is not the sin of adultery, but the sin of breaking covenant. We rejoiced to remember that our God is a covenant keeping God, and when we saw how He yearned for Israel, though they broke covenant, He never did. He will renew this covenant with Israel one day, as you know. And so, we decided to follow His example.
Isn't that a refreshing way of looking at it?! We are so blessed. God took what was broken and had pity, and is providing restoration, though it will be a long road of healing. We rejoice in His goodness and faithfulness to us.
I am guessing that the reason factnetters can't get their story straight is because we are all individuals, with different experiences, and real wounds, of different origins.
I have a few very good memories of you, of personal kindnesses (thanks,) and have decided to focus on those from now on, when I think of you, and all of the leaders, from now on. I now see my time at NTCC as a stepping stone, not a roadblock, and can move on peacefully.
Shalom |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 405
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 1:39 am: |
|
myshofar
"We learned that the heart of the commandment is not the sin of adultery, but the sin of breaking covenant. We rejoiced to remember that our God is a covenant keeping God, and when we saw how He yearned for Israel, though they broke covenant, He never did. He will renew this covenant with Israel one day, as you know. And so, we decided to follow His example."
Would you mind sharing more concerning your marital reconciliation on the 'Remarriage' thread? |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 406
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 2:20 am: |
|
"I have a few very good memories of you, of personal kindnesses (thanks,) and have decided to focus on those from now on, when I think of you, and all of the leaders, from now on. I now see my time at NTCC as a stepping stone, not a roadblock, and can move on peacefully."
1) If it were about the 'Leaders' personality and private acts of relationship, I never would have left. (A really great group of guys and gals in private... You know: smart, witty, joking, fellowshippy, hospitable, ‘successful’, etc...) My rejection of the 'Bless Bob...' comment was not a rejection of personal friendship due to personal hatred on my part, but rather a purposed refusal to 'play' at personal friendship while such destructive ministering is deliberately, knowingly perpetrated upon every little soul that steps through their doors...
2) It was a great stepping stone for me, as well. As Davis always said: "Many times, it's not knowing what to do that counts, but learning what not to do..."
And so, the book written would be: 1001 Unscriptural Things Not To Do as Ministers!
I absolutely believe without a doubt, that those who survive the ordeal with their faith of Jesus still in tact (And many have NOT), they are now very much stronger Christians for it, simply because we have learned in a bad way how to cling to Jesus only for our salvation, faith, and life, and trust, and NOT the folly of putting our trust in man, as the Bible said from the beginning...
3) 'Moving On' peacefully? I have the peace of Jesus in my heart, but as Paul said: Who is offended, and I burn not... (2 Cor 11:29) I want closure! Either they repent fully of their devilish ways of ministering for business and profit on the backs of the sheep, or they are stopped, and their mouths shut by God.
And I will continue to devote myself to the teaching of God's true ministry of the saints according to the Scriptures, while proving in a more perfect way, that such ministries we were subjected to (By our own ignorance and folly...) are indeed the false teachers and builders of our day, that God's Word plainly warns of and adequately exposes, for any with an ear to hear for their own soul's sake...
And why devote myself to this very thing? Simple. I LOVE IT! And, though some have tried to stop me through spiritual and practical coercion, and though I continue to pass by personal chances of prosperity, I still LOVE IT more. Which, by the way, is the true mark of a calling of God. NOT the personal persuasions, tricks of recruitment, wresting of Scriptures, and mis-use of position that these really wise-guys have made an art of from church cradle to spiritual grave...
So, I'm supposed to respond: Oh bless mike too. Hee-hee, he got hit by my point, and so we're touché buddies, hee-hee... God forbid! Some do think this is all just a sideshow and a game, with a little dash of public interest in it. But there are also a few here who know the true evils placed upon unsuspecting people, because they were put through more than others, because they were bigger foolish believers than others... |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 407
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 2:39 am: |
|
Now, some have not faith for my plain speech and practice above. myshofar's faith is so-stated, and she ought certainly so do. That is her good contribution to those around her and her husband... And others have their faith, and they are as sincere about it, as mine, and so they practice it to be blessed in their own lives and to minister to others as well.
And I would not intrude on their manner of faith on this net or in their lives. I only say, that if anyone wants to question my own manner, then just make sure your Bible is with you. I am on neither side of any aisle, as I've said before.
One man said to me: So, you're taking his side... and my answer is: No, I'm taking the side of right judgment by the Bible, which is the Lord's side... I do not wish to play like children in a market-place, where it's all about who's 'winning', or 'one-upping' another. As Jesus said: He that heareth my word and believeth on Him that sent me.... (John 5:24)
So, if my Word is Bible and it's right sense and application, then believe on Him that guides me. But, if the devil moves me, then all I ask is that you prove it plainly: Bring your Bible. Give specifics. Give me the chance to show fruits worthy of repentance. But, if it's just your personal way judging my manner, then.... whatever... so I won't be that way around you in your home nor at a common table of fellowship. But, so far as my efforts on this NET, then just sikomo-si-pass-me-on-by... (??) You see? I really do love Rev Difrancesco! It's just that devil's pompous pretender he's choosing to serve under.... |
dlyrac
New member
Username: dlyrac
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 198.85.192.7
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
|
It is simply amazing that people would spend hours days,..months even years worry about a church they no longer attend. Whats eating at you people? Is revenge a godly character?
IF you are no longer a part of ntcc, why not just put it out of your mind completly.
No I dont believe you are trying to help us "the poor fools who think this is where God wants us to worship and serve Him."
You are not posting to help people, you may pretend to be concerned about the aforementioned group but your real intention is to hurt, is to destroy, to get back at people, who in your mind did you wrong.
Yes I am an Ntcc'r and glad to be so, and may I boldly say at one time so were you.
Now you are not, thats your choice, but this obsession has to end. I am sure there are doctors who would confirm you have a problem. Maybe you could call Doct Laura, and tell here how mean the church was to you, I bet she would tell you to get over it, and more, like stop blaming them for the problems in your life.
PS Have a nice Day
dlc |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.230.84.157
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
|
Yes dlc you are on to us
You know we all get together as you surely susppected and plot evil. We think how much evil can we acomplish in the world today, I mean after all why else would we leave? I mean the fact that we were there and it seriously messed up our lives while we were there could in no way make us at all concerned about old friends who are still there, and because we are so evil we could in no way at all be concerned about new people who are being exploited or who will be exploited. I mean we just need to get over it don't we because I'm sure that if NTCC royally did us wrong we probably deserved it, didn't we? I mean those whinny people who went through Aucshwits they need to just forget about it too and stop moaning right? We are sooooo evil I know, why can't we just take it like a man and move on, oh I make me sick. You are right, have mercy on us pathetic morons please, I mean you know that we must be reprobate since we left, oh woe is us. |
dlyrac
New member
Username: dlyrac
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 65.191.162.12
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 4:08 pm: |
|
Matt,
Why you left is your business, but dont you think at some time you have to let this go. Some of us, Nttc'rs are just beyond your help, we are hopelessly "exploited",. I mean we really believe This is where God has blessed our lives. Pray for our poor decieved souls that God would show us the "light" like He has to you and those like minded.
bye.
Dlc |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.230.84.157
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 4:36 pm: |
|
Ok Dlc
First of all excuse my over dose of sarcasm on the last post. As to your comment about leting it go let me elaborate a little. You see leaving NTCC is not something that just happens when you remove yourself physically from the church. First you leave NTCC and then NTCC leaves you. You can not just go to a program like that for years and then leave with it having no effect upon you. It was several years after I left NTCC before NTCC left me, and that is not a good thing either. Now that NTCC is out of me, I can honestly say that I am a better husband, father, and person in general. You see in an envoirnment that stresses emulation of its leader who in this case is Rev. Davis, the character of each member tends to reflect that leader in all aspects of their lives. Rev. Davis as a husband leads men to treat their wives as second class citizens. I know your not going to agree with me, but its true. When a woman is more or less a prisioner in her own home that is not a good thing. Rev. Davis has no toleration for anyone who disagrees with him, and his way of dealing with it is imtimidation, threats, humiliation, and other things that nice people do not practice. This way of dealing with people gets passed on to all of the members of his church. To be honest I am not proud of treating my wife like RWD teaches that we should treat our wives. I perfer being a gentelman, a nice person, considerate, being kind. I am not proud of the way that I treated my children when I was indoctrinated with RWD's teachings. I believe in child discipline, but not in being cruel, and abusive. I am not proud of judging other people's spiritual condition based upon a whole assortment of mostly outwardly based things. I am not proud of being scornful of others who did not share my opinioin or understanding of issues. And all of these things I speak of in the context of after I had left NTCC not to speak of when I was still there. You see you don't just get over something like that. It took years before I "got over it". NTCC is a traumatic expereince, and healing takes time. In fact I find it very satisfying to myself personally to let the leadership of NTCC know what they do is wrong. I know they won't listen to me, that is not the point. Maybe someone else will be benefited by it, but even if no one else benefits from it, I most certainly do. After represing for years while in NTCC things that I knew were obviously wrong, yet I was afraid to admit to either myself or others, there is a great sense of satisfaction to fianlly voice these objections and concerns to those where were responisible for them.
I know you can not/ do not understand, and you will not until you leave yourself. I know that no one can make you see what is wrong other than you yourself, I can not, for no one could change my mind either. I would have scoffed at former members while I was in also just like you do, but if you ever are honest with yourself and one day you think "you know the way this church treats people is just not right" you will understand why we post on here. Until then you will not understand us, but I hope to see you on the other side one of these days and join the real world for the first time again. Until that day, I know that to you we are wrong, we are fighting against God, to you we are the ultimate of sinners, and thats ok because I have been before where you are now, and I understand. I also understand what you do not, because I am now where you have not yet come. |
mklo
Intermediate Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 123
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
|
quote:It is simply amazing that people would spend hours days,..months even years worry about a church they no longer attend. Whats eating at you people? Is revenge a godly character?
IF you are no longer a part of ntcc, why not just put it out of your mind completly.
dlyrac,
It doesn't really take that much time to occasionally keep up with a message board, especially if one is in front a computer all day anyway. A board like this simply becomes a part of one's usual surfing pattern; it does not require an obsession to skim new posts, and contribute if one feels inclined. FACTNet is only one of a number of boards that I periodically check in on.
You seem to have been lurking here for a while yourself. Are you obsessed? Your web browser is under your direct control, you know.
It should be understood that NTCC dominates one's life and mind to a far greater degree. (As I see Matt W. has elaborated upon above.) If it is difficult for some to "put it out of your mind completly," it is because it is a defining experience with a far-reaching impact on how one views everything.
Also, it's because the leadership of the church makes leaving it such an issue. If there is any psychological turmoil involved with departure, it is because your leadership intentionally cultivates it to surround the prospect with an ominous cloud of fear. Many people would leave sooner than they do, were it not for the mind-games of your leaders.
Speaking for myself - nothing is "eating" at me, nor is there any desire for "revenge." You shouldn’t presume to judge what is going on in the hearts and minds of others.
Many here are convinced that NTCC is an extremely unhealthy environment. A multitude of testimonies have been offered by people who have been hurt by your church. Stories, quotes and anecdotes have been published in abundance, all of which point consistently to certain areas of concern.
I would like to see the same sort of backup behind these frequent assertions that people have been “hurt” by what we have posted. What does that mean? Who has been “hurt,” and how? If people have left or chosen not to get involved with NTCC, then from my perspective they have been helped. They would be better off somewhere else. It doesn’t hurt anyone if they start thinking critically about their involvement with NTCC. Sometimes all people need is to hear someone else say what they have themselves been thinking for a while, and it relieves a burden.
The environment of NTCC is such that people can't be open and honest with their fellow members about their concerns. It is an environment where people are often even afraid to talk to their spouse about things that trouble them. NTCC is a church that you can't get straight, honest, and complete answers about from the "outside." I am persuaded that most people, if they knew the whole deal before they got “in,” never would to begin with.
Don’t we have the right to talk about our experiences openly, so that issues might be addressed? Or that others might spared from having to learn the hard way?
Your leaders say whatever they want to from the safety of their pulpits. They have their one-way conversations with their audience for several hours per week. What more do they want? Must they control everything that is said about their organization, even among those who aren’t a part of it? |
ufillintheblank
New member
Username: ufillintheblank
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 7:24 pm: |
|
ntcctruth
I have not read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been addressed before. You said there may be a mole in that support group. If so the mole must be very deceptive. I went to that Yahoo support group. I wrote an email explaining that I was currently attending the Church and was not satisfied. Eventually, I was going to leave but I needed support and help. I NEVER got a response. I was hurt. I am still at the Church and STILL by myself. I have no help or support for my situation. I thought I could have gotten an "rejection" email but I got nothing. So, if they got a mole in there it must be a good one. They got inside and I am still out here looking for some support. That was when I realized that I have to do this on my won. I don't trust some of NTCC's principles but then I dont trust some of these ex NTCC's who supposively want to help. Uhhhhhh OK! Anyway, that's just my experience. So, it is just me and God, as it should be!  There are some on here who are sincere but then there are some that are so bitter that I don't even think it is about helping BUT hurting an org. that hurt them. NTCC and exNTCC are going back and forth so viciously that neither is of any REAL HELP to those of us that are stradling the fence...
(Message edited by Ufillintheblank on June 04, 2006) |
leftin1991
Junior Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.98.120
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 7:32 pm: |
|
Hi blank -- I would be happy to correspond with you. ozark64@juno.com |
ufillintheblank
New member
Username: ufillintheblank
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 7:40 pm: |
|
I will email tonight. Thanks!! |
curtiswaltermire
Junior Member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.0.170
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
|
Ufillintheblank,
Don't take it personally if you never got a response from the moderator/owner of the support group. I didn't get one either, so I emailed her again and she quickly responded. She was apologetic for the fact that she hadn't gotten around to it because she was busy. I was accepted and began taking advantage of the support group that same day.
I am willing to help you in any way I can. I can be reached at cewaltermire@sbcglobal.net. I prefer personal, one-on-one correspondence anyway, rather than having to wade through all of this junk just to find someone who isn't just spouting off filth.
May God bless you in whatever you decide to do for Him.
Curt Waltermire |
ufillintheblank
New member
Username: ufillintheblank
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
|
Curtis,
I remember you and your family. I finally am able to see someone I actually "know" get out and move on. Thank you for your response and offer to help. It is greatly appreciated! |
frankly
Junior Member
Username: frankly
Post Number: 44
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.186.63.133
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
|
ufill,
I was also in just a few short months ago and when I began questioning things I had been taught I was afraid since we are taught to turn in our own family members just like 1984 and the hitler youth. I was afraid my wife was going to go and turn me in.
Someone said that the Pelfry's pulled us out. I find this to be a great insult since it insinuates that I am not able to think for myself. The truth is that I was thinking for myself and I was afraid my wife wouldn't think for herself before I had an opportunity to explain myself.
It is just sick how you can be married to someone and be afraid to tell them what you are thinking for fear of being called before some man for thinking differently than them.
I am sure that I left for "holiness reasons (wanted the world)" and now that I am running home to mommy I am not so sure I want to associate with someone that will make such accusations without any type of background and since verses only apply to "the brethren" (good book by the way, I love John Grisham) I now see that I am also thought of the same way despite anything that may have been said to the contrary.
I am probably going to regret what I have written since it will probably close a door which I enjoy being open. The only thing is it bothers me that people can come on here and write such hateful things to intimidate those who are no longer a part of their group.
Last I checked the greatest of these was love and I am wondering where the love is. If those no longer in are in such bad shape then shouldn't you "kill them with kindness"? If your hit on the right cheek shouldn't you be offering the perp the other? What happened to loving your neighbor as yourself? My mom used to tell me the reason why people are bullies and intimidate people is because they really don't like themselves. Sounds just like what Jesus said.
So Ufill, I guess what I'm saying is that help is nearer than you think. It is kind of a faith thing. It comes down to if you can trust your wife or not. It is sad if you can't and we sinners will pray for you, but if you can then bringing things to light is a great way to make the first step.
John Schaub
j_p_schaub@hotmail.com |
curtiswaltermire
Junior Member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.7.133
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:16 am: |
|
U...blank,
Absolutely. I understand your situation. Know that anything you communicate with me will be kept in strictest confidence.
I'll have you know also that, as the saying goes, "the water's fine."
CW |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 137.229.80.136
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
|
Hey John Schaub
Do you remember me? I worked with you at the insulation place breifly, tall, thin, auburn hair, just wondering. I thought you were pretty funny, made enduring NTCC a little easier ha ha. Well glad to hear you escaped you or Ufillintheblank can email me at alaskabible@yahoo.com or anyone for that matter.
Matthew Wadsworth |
dlyrac
New member
Username: dlyrac
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 198.85.192.7
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
|
To Matt & Mklo
You prove my point, you just cant let it go. You say you have moved on with your lives, that you are better husband est, but yet you still have to attack Rev Davis and the organization. Since you claim to still be serving God let me ask you, have your prayed for Him, have you forgiven Him the wrong "you think" he has done to you.
Forgive,........as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.
No one is forced to stay in the church, people are free to come and go as they like. I know this is hard for you to grasp...but some of us like it here.
Try to have a good day........
dlc. |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.135.65.0
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
|
Dlc-
Take your own advice. If you think the people here are so misguided, then turn the other cheek and ignore. Perhaps you do not understand why people come here for guidance and support. Perhaps you do not want to understand.
This may be hard for you to grasp, but some of us did not like it there.
Try and have a good day |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 410
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:01 pm: |
|
Hmmm... dilyrac intrudes, accuses, denounces warring: no specifics with bible... Matt & Mick take time out of their busy schedules to stand by their deeds without shame... a conversation of helping someone who asks for it ensues... peace & blessing are returning to the screen... dulyrac intrudes, accuses, denounces warring: no specifics with bible....
Anybody observed this same pattern time and time again? is it really true, or just Memorex, that:
Loyalists come on the scene to deliberately stir up strife for the sake of diverting the purpose of FACTNET from occuring: A free public place to give testimony to own experiences under such Leaders (after being shut down while trying to make grievances known from inside...), offering help to others that do ask for it...
Remember, remember, remember: The evil-workings of wilfully blinding 'Leadership' is the subject here... always... This is all very plainly seen, and the Sauls that-chase-after-us (Little Indian lingo there) just keep on exposing themselves. And this is an apropriate thread to do it on! |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 411
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:25 pm: |
|
"IF you are no longer a part of ntcc, why not just put it out of your mind completly."
I have often tried, but many times in prayer, things just keep coming back so clear, with Scripture, to show the errors of my past following ways. I conclude I want to, and must share it with others. (Jeremiah 20:9) In person, on phones, on FACTNET (Which I do honestly thank God for!) And especially them that say hello on the streets, and still attend NTCC, and then ask me what it really is that I left for, and I tell them the same thing as I have to others and here so many times... And not one of them have walked away hurt, offended, upset, sorry they met me, and neither have I. Though we did not always agree, yet not a few would say: Well, I can see your point... to a point... (But, then I'm the emboodiment, so none are really going to come all the way on board...)
I am tolerated many times, I am known as 'out there' many more times, but sometimes... just sometimes... someone says : Thanks. That makes perfect sense, and it is a help to me...
And the goodness and broken heart of Jesus' soul floods mine, and I'm glad to have been of service to another, as My Lord has been to me...
Well, Derrick, you're just praying to the devil. Or Satan simply stands there at your right hand in prayer, and you keep listening to him to attack and accuse falsely and bitterly try to destroy good peoples' works...
OK, once again: Show me. Prove it. Point out by specifics: bring your Bible. And, if any of those mentioned on Kekel's honor role, concur, I am ready to look at it entirely seriously for my own souls' sake... Or, even if you just bring your bible and specific examples of what I have written, in quotes, then hopefully it is enough for the Spirit of truth to convict my heart and to bring me to Christ's cross, where we all belong... My heart lays bare. I'm open before all to see the case for themselves, to be judged of all. Truth is the main thing. Instruct me.
Until then... are you trying so hard to stay in the Light, or trying even harder not to see that Light, as He really is, and other false lights, for what they really are? |
imaskingwhy
Intermediate Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 226
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.237.228.225
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:51 pm: |
|
Mr. Kekel, I noticed your comment concerning names on the ntccXposed site. I couldn't help but remember a message you preached in 1983 at Blumenthal's church in HI. You had went and seen the pearl harbor film and made reference to the long list of names(at the end of the film) of people who went down with the USS memorial into a watery grave. You somehow turned that into a representation of the people who had left the org. and proceeded with naming many people. It was a arbitrary type of process. Because they were no longer in the org. then they were "dieing and going to hell". I'm sure you can think of many times when "names" are mentioned inappropriatley within NTCC. My question is this. Why is it that it is ok for the leadership of NTCC to mention names at their convenience but Ex-ntccr's cannot? Now before you conclude that it is because of inaccuracy, then why is it that we can't have the same convenience when responding to why we left. In other words you say it is because we wanted sin or whatever, we say that is inaccurate there is more to it, and ntcc then hires a lawyer.
IMASKINGWHY |
matthew_wadsworth
Junior Member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 209.193.54.131
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 7:20 pm: |
|
You know one of the best things about leaving NTCC? Now if I want to stare at factnet all my free time, you know what I can just because I feel like it, and don't have to worry about anyone (at least who's opinion matters to me) jacking me up. If that bothers someone, oh well, now I get to actually enjoy living in a free country . |
mklo
Intermediate Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 124
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
|
dlyrac, yes, I have prayed for Rev. Davis on many an occasion. It's not about the wrongs done to me, but rather the wrongs that are continuing to be perpetrated upon others.
With all due respect, you are in over your head when you say "this is hard for you to grasp." I grasp the entirety of this situation quite firmly, thank you. No one here has, at any point that I am aware of, challenged the statement that you say is hard for us grasp. Some of you are quite happy to be part of NTCC. That is not breaking news, nor is it hard to grasp. I was quite happily involved myself, for years. That is, as long as I could continue to push certain observations and questions out of my mind in order to maintain an illusion.
I was once where you are now, and probably would have said the same things. (Perhaps more clearly, however.) Your time may come, also. You will understand, then, what you do not and cannot understand now. There are several who have ventured out on this board to defend the .org just as you are doing now, who have since come to see the truth.
Are you a minister? How long have you been around?
If you wish to engage in a serious one-on-one dialogue, I am open to that. If what you read on this forum disturbs you, then perhaps you should not participate. I have been more than content from the beginning to allow the reader to gauge the strength of arguments on this board.
There ARE reasons that people need to speak out against NTCC. They have been provided. If there's a particular issue you wish to address, then do so. When you evade the issues, however, and instead make sweeping generalizations about the spiritual condition of those that raise them, you lose credibility.
You have a nice day, also. |
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 383
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 6:07 am: |
|
Hi, ufillintheblank,
I had been away from the net for the past few days and I've just noticed your post (I've only looked at this thread so far, so if you've addressed me elsewhere then I haven't seen it yet).
The fact that there is a mole has been confirmed by MCKEKEL himself. I am sorry that you haven't received a response from the group moderators about membership either way. Thanks for speaking up with your concerns. I believe you'll find alot answers by learning from the experiences of others.
One of the best pieces of advice that I can give you is this: Ask yourself if everything is right between you and God....is your prayer life consistent...are you connected with God in fellowship when in prayer? If so (and I have no reason to believe that you don't), then STAY that way and follow Jesus whereever He leads you. Your walk with God, prayer, devotions, and study of God's Word begins at home.
Don't leave or stay in a church group out of a sense of obligation to a group or leader therein. Go to whatever public assembly that God leads you to. If God is leading you out of NTCC, then don't try to find reasons to stay. Again, that comes with personal prayer. More than ever (as you've eluded to), you must depend upon God for your answers - which is the way it's supposed to be.
You can email me at ntcctruth@gmail.com if you like.
God bless you,
Bro Marc Perez |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 412
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
|
"Why is it that it is ok for the leadership of NTCC to mention names at their convenience but Ex-ntccr's cannot?"
Because of the names being mentioned... Their own names should be mentioned with nothing but respect, awe, praises...
"Did you know that he committed adultery?"
-Davis, conference: Accusation against Rev Blumenthal to prove he left because of sin and to, somehow, invalidate anything he had to say about it...
"Did you know that she committed adultery?"
-High Priest, Sanhedrin: Accusation against woman who met Jesus, and became a believer of the sect called 'Christian'... |
ufillintheblank
New member
Username: ufillintheblank
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:04 am: |
|
Marc,
It is odd but my main reason for staying at NTCC at this point is not fear,loyalty or obligation. It is mainly that I cannot afford to disrupt my life right now. Many things in my life will change. Many people depend on me. I have already gone against some of the teachings. Not against God but against manmade rules that I feel have no bearing on my relationship with God. For example, I watch DVDs. I also have friends outside of the Church. And other things as well. My career is very important to me. If I have to miss a Thurs or Sat service then so be it. I have the 3 other services I can attend. I am just not so "anal", stiff or unbending when it comes to Church anymore... That is how I know that I have changed. |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 353
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 209.193.56.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:39 am: |
|
"If I have to miss a Thurs or Sat service then so be it. I have the 3 other services I can attend. I am just not so "anal", stiff or unbending when it comes to Church anymore... That is how I know that I have changed."
You must not be in the ministry there; unless things have radically changed, your attitude would be deemed unacceptable.
Vic Johanson |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 354
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 209.193.56.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:58 am: |
|
"Rather I say to you “Mr. Gorbachev, take down the wall.” Take down the site, Tracy."
Mike, your dramatic quote is 180 degrees out of kilter. NTCC, not Tracy, would be analogous to the totalitarian Soviet state, stifling individuality and free expression and trampling the right of the people to dissent. Your wall is still up, but it couldn't keep us in, and we are no longer under NTCC control. You can't stifle our testimony, because we remember our brothers and sisters in bonds as bound with them, and that motivates us to proclaim a message of liberty to the captives. Instead of threatening lawsuits, maybe you could promote some positive change to the one in power.
Vic Johanson |
curtiswaltermire
Junior Member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.7.252
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 6:25 am: |
|
I have something to relate that is very ugly.
Some time ago, "whirlwind" posted a comment about a cerain individual's wife committing adultery. If I have the story correct, she wound up going to bed with someone that the couple had been fellowshipping with without permission. "Whirlwind" made the statement that if perhaps if they had just done what they were told...something like "I guess the rules (Bible School fellowship rules) aren't so bad after all, now are they?"
It reminds me of something that happened in the early 1980's, when there was found a hot air balloon just on the west side of the Berlin Wall. It had been crudely constructed by a couple of families, and they used it to escape. There was a movie made about it many years later.
Sometime before the balloon was launched, one family in particular had a teen-age son that tried to escape on his own, and was gunned down. The government officials showed up to home to inform the parents of this unfortunate event.
I can imagine them saying "If your son had just been a good little obedient boy, then he wouldn't be dead. Now the rules aren't so bad now after all, are they?"
It's sick. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 421
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
|
"It's sick." Thank you, it is... It was sick to God also, yet He continued to observe it and address it by His prophets... Why? because people were getting ensnared by the usurping & corrupting of His ministry... That is why I don't just move on and forget all about it... I have honestly tried... So, either the devil keeps pushing me back here, or the Lord keeps leading me back to it...
Childish ministries (Cultishness): Rules to restrict the behavior of unruly church children, because they are not grown up enough to abide by the Word of God on their own...
The permission 'wall' is an extreme form of treating leading examples and called ministers of the faith as unruly, untrustworthy, immature children... These are going to preach to Governors? No, but to other displayed children (Of which I was an older version...)
And many of the rules were made because of the acts of Davis' own family, which he made for others after the fact of his own. And his own are exempted anyway. He just has to adjust them over time to fit the new mode of his own family members' operations...
Once he sees his own family & favorites move in a contrary direction, he begins to likewise move his own teaching & rules in that direction, so that the changed direction is openly made by the time the acts of the family & the favored become public knowledge. Timing is everything.
Davis has mastered the political, social, psychological art of: Spin, damage control, change of standards & teaching, and willful blindness to his own, so that the open acts of family and favorites appear to be the natural free responses to the changes of his own mind... from God... Rather than compelling the alternate direction he must take in order to keep his son-in-law appearing to be living a Christian life, as currently defined by Davis!
That is, so long as the daughter wants it...
"God has chosen him, and it will remain that way, so long as he continues to live a Christian life!"
-Davis, conference... (In response to the growing question: why Kekel?)
Now, is that true? Sick? or am I just 'out there'... (Nevertheless, I am out of there... Thank God for Jesus' faith!) |
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 356
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
|
"Davis has mastered the political, social, psychological art of: Spin, damage control..."
That might be true withinin the cloistered environment of NTCC, but so far none of the NTCC leadership have proven themselves even marginally competent at public interaction. When the dialogue can't be controlled, it's much trickier to deceive people.
Vic Johanson |
dlyrac
New member
Username: dlyrac
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 198.85.192.7
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:07 pm: |
|
Mklo, Bob & Matt
First of all I was here before you came.
That last time I vistited this site or posted anything Monday its now thursday. I will not bother checking how many times you have posted. but I am certain it is allot more then I have.
God calling people to post here........what a laugh.....to expose the evils of Ntcc, what a lie you are posting because you have an axe to grind.
Why am I posting here.......hmm maybe I hit my head thinking that perhaps some of you would say...man this guys right how much time am I going to spend doing this..
I am not here to discuss why you left or why you hate Rev Davis or Rev Kekel since they seem to be the ones you attack the most.
My question is...If I love and respect those men, If I count it a privildge to be in this church why would you desire to turn me away.
Hmmm maybe some thought for food.
PS....
nice day have you
dlc... |
gonein99
New member
Username: gonein99
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 70.134.16.42
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
|
Dlc........Ummmmm.....pardon me sir......may I?....please...for just a sec.........If I may....ummmm....what's a queer bait?
Please go ask Rev Jordan and get back with me. "what's worse, a queer or the queer bait"-Rev. Jordan from a post he so kindly put in front of all of us. I guessed "queer" but that's only because I don't know what "queer bait" is.
I only guessed in my head that queer bait is one who dresses or acts to bait queers......but is it catch and release or can you take some home? Is there a limit to the number of queers you can catch? Has Rev Jordan ever caught a queer or did he watch as a baited queer was caught by a queer catcher and wondered himself......I'm confused...........but I would like to get a queer license this year with my deer tags if I could.
I'm just kidding....I would love my preacher to be a fountain of wisdom like this too.
Thoughts eaten and digested and here it is: Because following these men as demanded by their doctrine is idol worship. Open your Bible and find an example of any of the Disciples demanding the stuff Davis and Funky Bunch WITHIN IT'S CONTEXT and I'll quit.} |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 423
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:36 pm: |
|
gone-before-us-in99
I love this guy! or gal! Ha! Humor, fun, good, & true too! (Which is usually the case...) |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.135.64.240
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:40 pm: |
|
dlc- Did it occur to you that people do not post to turn away? Rather, to give answers to those who seek them (and are rebuked for it)... or to discuss and heal with people with similar experiences. I mean, lets face it, after some time in NTCC one has almost no friends or family anymore that hasn't been alienated, so to where else can you turn?
No one is trying to change your mind. When we were in the org, no one could have changed our mind. This site is merely a forum to discuss, heal, and answer questions for the seekers the org does not like to disclose. Some things have to be taken with a grain of salt, but the much of what is said here should not be easily dismissed.
Why does this site annoy you so?
You said "If I love and respect those men, If I count it a privildge to be in this church why would you desire to turn me away. " If that is how you feel, you cannot be turned away... so save yourself the aggravation and just turn off your computer.
But I will counter your statement with my own: If I am hurt and betrayed- If I lost years of my life, countless thousands of dollars, and went through a nasty divorce with someone who was abusive and is probably mentally ill- If I would never have come back a second time if I had known what this church believed up front... why would you rebuke me for trying to get that information out to others so they can make a decision before they have too much invested to leave? |
sogladtobefree
New member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.135.64.240
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
|
so what is queer bait, exactly?
And what is NTCC's preoccupation with homosexuality? There seems to be this fixation on it, almost obsessive. Strange, most heterosexuals don't think about homosexuality that much. |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 424
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:46 pm: |
|
"That might be true withinin the cloistered environment of NTCC, but so far none of the NTCC leadership have proven themselves even marginally competent at public interaction. When the dialogue can't be controlled, it's much trickier to deceive people."
They are not competent at what they have the floor for in their own homes and pulpits, here, because this is not their own homes & pulpits!
They have not the authority to rule here, and so they are taken as they are, and so seen exactly for what they are, without title, license, position, influence... Just exactly what they are... As we all are.
"The ground is level at the cross, and the posting space is equal here..." Truly, truly no big I's and little u's here. (Whereas, back over there it is only a phrase of self-humility & pretence...) |
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 425
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:05 pm: |
|
"most heterosexuals don't think about homosexuality that much."
Easy targets for those who have defiled and compromised most everything else they are supposed to stand for?? (Funny thing: most of what they beat their little birdy chests about were the conpromise of 'adding thereto' in the first place!)
Thank God I'm not like those other so-called Christians that cut their hair, and wear pants, and drink wine, and only go to church once a week, and don't go door-knocking like we have to (I mean, like we love to...), and... and... and...
Once like a bird in prison I felt,
no freedom from my sorrow I felt,
but then one day He listened to me,
Glory to God! He seeet me free!
He set me free! Yes! He set me free!
He broke the bonds of prison for me!
When Jesus came, He listened to me,
Glory to God! He seeet me free!!
-The song of departure from sin and then even the shame of Graham, too... |
curtiswaltermire
Junior Member
Username: curtiswaltermire
Post Number: 29
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 4.245.4.59
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:42 pm: |
|
With regards to my previous post on this thread, I want to make it clear that I realize that an apology, or at least an attempt at an apology, was made by "whirlwind" to the offended party.
My point in posting the remark was not just to dig up dirt, it was merely to point out the ridiculousness of the mentality. Something that Vic said made me think of it all. Those that buy into the idea of communism think that if everyone would just cooperate with this great idea, it would all work out just fine. That it really isn't all that bad after compared to what they face if they try to run from it. Those that see it for what it is flee from it and expose it at every opportunity.
I am in no way endeavoring to change the subject to Communism, or to say that Communist East Germany is EXACTLY like NTCC in every way, so don't misunderstand me. It is intended only as far as the illustration will allow it to go.
That's far enough, I think. |
doug_allen
Intermediate Member
Username: doug_allen
Post Number: 195
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 6:44 pm: |
|
Curt,
Your post was right on... |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 73
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.83
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
|
quote:It is simply amazing that people would spend hours days,..months even years worry about a church they no longer attend.
"With God all things are possible" (Matt. 19:26).
quote:Whats eating at you people?
Just this: NTCC enslaves the disciples of Christ, takes their eyes off the Master and places them on Rodger Dodger and his cronies.
quote:Is revenge a godly character?
It most certainly is:
quote:For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
-- Hebrews 10:30 (NASB)
How much godlier a character can you have than the very character of God? So, evidently, yes, vengeance is a godly character, even if it is proscribed to the disciples of Christ (Rom. 12:19). But speaking the truth in love (even in righteous indignation) about an evil organization, and about wicked men who perpetrate evils upon the saints, is hardly seeking vengeance. Jesus often spoke out against the school of the Pharisees, and that of the Sadducees, too. Paul and John spoke out against the wicked behavior of specific church leaders, including, in Paul's case, the apostle Peter himself!
quote:IF you are no longer a part of ntcc, why not just put it out of your mind completly.
I've never even set foot in an NTCC, but I can tell you from my own experiences with far less oppressive organizations than the NTCC, it ain't that easy. In time, I'm confident that many exNTCCers will move on and this sort of conversation will have little attraction for them; but for others, it will always be a burden to seek those that are lost among the wolves at the NTCC.
quote:No I dont believe you are trying to help us "the poor fools who think this is where God wants us to worship and serve Him."
Of course you don't; you're the blind man who has followed the blind leader into a pit, and you're too proud, at this point in your life, to admit what you've done. So you will defend your blind leaders, and you will boast of the pit in which you find yourself, until the realization sets in that you're walking around in the mire of your own excrement, and that there is no fresh water and no food in the pit, except what is lowered down to you by those seeking to pull you out of that mess. |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 74
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.83
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 12:22 am: |
|
Moreover, you will not come out of the pit in which you find yourself, until you come to see it for what it is, and thereby are repulsed by it in direct proportion to the love you now have for it! |
measinner
Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 75
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.83
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 12:54 am: |
|
quote:Mklo, Bob & Matt
First of all I was here before you came.
Here at FACTNet, or here on this particular thread? I think Bob, Matt, and Mick beat you to this thread. I can't say that I recall seeing your screen-name elsewhere on FACTNet. Not that it really matters.
quote:. . . I will not bother checking how many times you have posted. but I am certain it is allot more then I have.
Mick seems to be one post behind you on this thread. Bob is prolific, so I'm sure he's got you beat hands down; but is that obsessive? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
quote:God calling people to post here........what a laugh.....to expose the evils of Ntcc, what a lie you are posting because you have an axe to grind.
The evils of the NTCC and the axe we have to grind are one and the same. And axe-grinding is noble work. But, in reality, we like to consider what we do in terms of having money-changers to chase out of the temple of God.
quote:Why am I posting here.......hmm maybe I hit my head thinking that perhaps some of you would say...man this guys right how much time am I going to spend doing this..
Why do you think you might influence exNTCCers if you don't think they will influence current NTCCers? Hmm? I think, inherently, you must realize that the strategy ultimately can be effective.
quote:I am not here to discuss why you left
Are you sure?
quote:. . . or why you hate Rev Davis or Rev Kekel since they seem to be the ones you attack the most.
Just because we withstand these men in a public forum does not mean that we hate them. Paul withstood Peter to his face in front of the whole assembly of saints that met at Antioch; do you think he hated Peter, too? And Jesus spoke often against the Pharisees and the Sadducees, to the masses of the Jews and to the religious leaders themselves; do you suppose that Jesus hated these leaders? Paul and John both spoke against specific men, by name, in their letters, and Paul even condemned two men to the hands of satan; do you suppose the apostles hated the men they spoke against? Hmm? Well then why do you suppose that anyone here who speaks against your vaunted gurus necessarily hates them?
quote:My question is...If I love and respect those men, If I count it a privildge to be in this church why would you desire to turn me away.
For the same reason we might love a Pharisee and yet seek to turn away those who respectfully followed them.
quote:Hmmm maybe some thought for food.
Hmm. Would that there was. |
popcorn100
New member
Username: popcorn100
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.236.160.104
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:13 pm: |
|
I think the reason we cant put it out of our mind is because, we have been manipulated and taken advantage of.... Just a thought. That lawyer is probably part of Ntcc so they dont have to spend money. Just like they Marine that worked for the post office on base that sent out thank you cards for free, so that the church wouldnt have to pay for postage. Hmmmm |
popcorn100
New member
Username: popcorn100
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.236.160.104
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:26 pm: |
|
I think nttceXposed should be published and made into a book. Then stand outside each one of there so called churches and hand them out as people leave. |
popcorn100
New member
Username: popcorn100
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.236.160.104
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:28 pm: |
|
I think ntcceXposed should be published and made into a book. Then stand outside each one of there so called churches and hand them out as people leave. |
just2bhappy
New member
Username: just2bhappy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 70.121.192.69
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Thanks Popcorn100 for bumping this up...
I just looked and on this date: December 26, 2007... ntccXposed is still up and running...what happened, was the legal action dropped or dismissed? |
pelfdaddy
Advanced Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 966
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.211.21.134
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:21 pm: |
|
It was a tactic employed to intimidate.
The problem it encountered was...ntccXposed is all true. |
|
