| Author | Message | ||
     formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
I am a former member of Trinity Foundation and my wife has just written a book about our involvement and separation from that group. If anyone is ineterested in learning the truth about Ole and his group they can check out our website at www.dallascult.com | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1190 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.52 |
I just ordered your wife's book. I live in the area and have of course heard a lot about the Trinity Foundation and even get the electronic version of The Door. I have heard Mr. A speak on television and radio many times describing life at the Trinity Foundation. I can't say that I'm too shocked. I look forward to reading the book and following the discussions here. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
Thank you for your purchase. I look forward to hearing your thoughts once you have read I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1208 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.21 |
I highly recommend, “I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult” by Wendy Duncan. If you think you know something about the Trinity Foundation of Dallas think again. Wendy Duncan’s book rips the “covering” off to expose this sick personality cult for what it is. The “hot seat” recollections are especially disturbing. I had to just set the book down several times working my way through that chapter. To those uninitiated in cult mind control some of the things Wendy relates may seem almost unbelievable. I am greatly troubled that this cult and Doyle Davidson’s are operating with complete impunity. How many lives have been ruined so far by these self appointed apostles of god? Are we doing the right thing to allow these types of men to prey on society in the name of religious freedom? I don’t know, it’s a scary and potentially explosive question that I don’t pretend to know the answer to. Will we wait too late and see another Jones Town or Heaven’s Gate tragedy here in the Dallas metroplex? I hope not. What can be done? | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
This stuff that was implied about how we're a potentially dangerous, apocolyptic suicide cult and that Ole is a paranoid megalomaniac is ridiculous. Ole's a curmudgeony old man and half the time he can't even get out of bed. He's sure not Mr. Rogers, but is he gonna try and persuade us all to kill ourselves? Come on, that's just goofy. I myself have only been part of this community for a few months now; I've have never felt manipulated, controlled, and certainly not abused in any sense of the word here though. No, as of now I have not read the book, but it's on the way. I'll post more of my comments after I read the book. For anyone who's curious, please visit us if you're in the Dallas area; our address and other information about us can be found at www.trinityfi.org We gather for Bible studies and fellowship freqently, so please call or write for more information. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1301 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.141 |
z, I look forward to your comments upon reading the book. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Trainedobserver, have you ever even been here to actually meet us? If not, please come over anytime; join us for Bible study or a meal. The idea that we're a potentially volatile "cult" is a gross misrepresentation of who we are and what we stand for and it disturbs me greatly that someone would think this of our community. That's ludicrous. Please come hang out with us. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1302 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.26 |
z, I really have no desire to do so Z. Thank you for the invite though. For me to personally get a true picture of any group requires a get deal of time spent within the group. A simple visit wouldn't do much. I've listened to some of the Bible Study mp3s on your site BTW. Like I said, I look forward to your feedback here on the book. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Hey, that's cool if you don't want to come by. I's just that when somebody paints Ole and Doyle Davidson with the same brush, it gets me concerned. If you've never actually met Ole or any of us, and everything you "know" about us came out of a book and some interviews you heard, how can you make such judgemental statements about us? That's not fair. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1303 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.46 |
I have no desire to meet Doyle Davidson either. I have listened to several weeks worth of the man's broadcasts and have a very good feel for what he is about. My comparison of Ole and Doyle are that they are both self appointed apostles who believe they have an exclusive on the truth. This is based on the book, and interviews I have read and watched. Read the book and make a rebuttal. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Hey trainedobserver (or whoever), if you like write me at zeuszor@hotmail.com and we can communicate privately. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
I have to get this out there: by no stretch of the imagination, by no means, is Trinity Foundation some type of isolated, paranoid, apocolyptic mind-control cult and the insinuation made above that we compare to Jonestown or Heaven's Gate disturbs me greatly. Show me one of the points of Lifton's thought reform model, or any other such model, that we conform to at the present time. Come over and meet us anytime; hell, I'll take you out for a beer and we'll talk about it. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
And another thing: trainedobserver, judging by the number of generally anti-religious and particularly anti-Christian postings you have put on FACTnet, it sure seems like you have it in for organized religion of any kind, and justify yourself by making accusations aginst people you know nothing about. Granted, I have not read the book and know nothing about it's author. I have not heard her side of the story. How objective are you, anyway? | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1307 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.23 |
z, Read the book and come back and we can talk about specifics. I'm not going to go back and forth with you about this. How objective am I? Well, I'm not in the organization and you are. My perspective as a former cult member who is now free will certainly be more objective than someone who isn't, wouldn't you think? I'm a fair person. Read the book; respond to it rather than getting some perceived slight stuck in your craw and letting that spoil your objectivity. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
You're right. I look forward to reading it. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
So, I got the book today and have read through Chpater Six. The hotseat chapter is pretty freakin' disturbing, I must admit. Ole is not in great physical condition. He is in almost constant pain and frequently bedridden. The first time I met Ole he was wearing only a cheap white T-shirt and a pair of boxer shorts with slippers on his feet, and was walking around with his cane. He looked like an ancient old man. Older than his 68 years. This is the Ole Anthony I know. You gotta realize, I'm almost 20 yrs older than anybody else who works for the Foundation, and am the youngest Levite. Most of these folks have know each other for a long time and are a tight-knit family, yes. But not as lively as I've heard they once were. My point is, from where I sit, from my point of view, OK, maybe there was weird stuff in the past. And it sounds like there was. But the people involved have learned from their mistakes and have moved on. They'll be the first ones to tell you that some of that stuff was goofy. I've never thought Ole to be very "nice" in the usual sense of the word, but I respect him and never perceived his manner as abusive. I think Ole has probably "mellowed out" considerably with time though. Crass and direct, yes, but not abusive; I've always thought he has a real love for people and is actually all heart. All I'm saying is, these things happened several years ago and are no longer happening now. This all disturbs me and I feel sad that others have been hurt. It's just that this is not my experience, and it was in the distant past, so I'm not all that worried about it. And so this stuff about how I'm in a cult doesn't really bother me too much, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. I hardly feel as if I'm in a "cult" or in any way abused here. In fact, I like it here and plan on being here indefinitely. I feel as if I am providing a reasonable service for the Body of Christ. I don't consider Ole to be my “covering” or any of that. Ole to me is a grumpy but kind old man who every day shares his perspective on the Scriptures with us and is the President of the entity known as the Trinity Foundation. I am fulfilled in my work in knowing that I have made a contribution. That's all. In love, B | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
I mean, 20 years younger than the others. No big deal, though. :-) Irie-I, B | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
I am happy that the people at Trinity Foundation (other than Ole, it sounds like) are now admitting the hot seats were a mistake, and that they are not doing them anymore. However, it appears that nobody there considers that there are several former members who are profoundly damaged emotionally and spiritually from this abusive practice. Has it even occurred to them to try to make amends for all the hurt they have caused? Though Trinity is a community that claims to uphold a set of high Christian ideals and sets itself forth as though it were a model Christian community, their ethics in this area fall short of common human decency. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
This is a matter it'd be best to leave to an older member of the Foundation to discuss. Something will be forthcoming. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Just nobody misunderstands: saying "the hotseat thing" was a bad choice of words for me to have used (above), too flippant. I certainly mean no offense. | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.21.76.34 |
Hello former, Here is a post I posted on the "WV Grant" thread by accident. I came back to check if there where any responses and then noticed what I'd done. Here is my question. Is this guy (Ole) still in operation because I just met someone on the yahoo boards talking about this person. I have no idea who OLE is. But if someone is still being abused there at the OLE church and Prime Time already exposed him then it seems to me that maybe this person hasn't heard. I tell you this cause I know what it means to feel out of touch and how hard it can be to get in touch. I'f you go and sign up at the yahoo boards just know that I just got kicked off the boards because the moderator thought I was prostelyzing/recruiting for a religion. Look don't give her a hard time but don't speak in moderation either. When I went there it seemed that the people there were just wallowing around in thier grief. Bless thier heart but they don't have the liberty you find here at factnet. I naturally took it upon myself to try to encourage a few of them because almost all of them were getting advice like "noone knows the Truth anyway". It was ok to say this but when I responded with "we can know the Truth" I was told I was prostelyzing. Long story short...I went there trying to speak of Hope and all that Goodness just seeping out of my mouth(I say this in joyful humor). It was too much. It stirred a few people up, especially the moderator, that will enforce HER strict rules. You have to hear the tone of discussions she'll allows there in order to know what I'm saying. One thing about factnet is that if you're overly rude, the people get to vote someone out. Not like yahoo where the moderator who has no tolerance for religion, but will allow people to bash everything but athiesim. I encourage everyone to go help out because just like I learned about yahoo boards recently- someone else is learning about factnet. Jay | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
Yes, Ole is still in business. To clarify, though, Ole was not exposed by PrimeTime. He helped PrimeTime in an investigation they did of three Dallas-based televangelists. Do you have a link to where that person is talking about Ole on the Yahoo boards? | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.21.76.34 |
No, I was just looking around at what other boards there were out across the web. Since I have a yahoo account and they've been around for a while I figured I'd sign up- then the emails started coming. It's way to strict there but then again I refused to tone down my freedom. Anyway... You're right, I think the person said that Ole helped investigate! Like I said- I don't who is who-I just wanted to let someone here know that there are people elsewhere asking and talking about this. Surely, J | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Indeed, Jay. Zeus is my screen name and I've been a part of this community and an employee of the Foundation for approxamately three months. I'm here to tell ya man, the Trinity Foundation that Wendy describes and the the Trinity Foundation I know are two different entities altogether. Like she's talking about something I have not seen. The hotseat chapter I found particularly disturbung; that's like performing surgery on somebody with a knife, fork, and spoon. That is freaky and I can surely see how people got injured. Some of the jargon, teachings, texts used, and things she describes about TF life I simply have not heard not encountered in my three months of full-time service here though. This all makes me sad and frankly confused as to my own standing. I am not scared now of Ole or anything like he's some Svengali type. No way. Ole is, one must admit to anyone who knows him, a man who speaks with conviction, and speaks things that if you take seriously will convict you in your heart, but like I've said I don't see Ole's teachings being more or less a threat to my individual identity or freedom of thought than what, say Jesus or the apostle Paul taught. As far as the mind being the anti-Christ...yeah, I must admit that I still don't get that one, how we can't learn about or understand things in the world, except through the mind...but then it lies to you anyway, so why listen to Ole? He says things that I find very thought-provoking, yet at the same time he emphasizes the importance of not depending on, or even trusting, the mind and senses. Once he started talking about the difference between "mind" and "consciousness" but didn't go very deeply into it and I didn't stop him to ask more about it. Now I wish I had...point of it all is that I do not, upon what I think is real, honest anaylisis on my part, feel as if I have been abused in any way so far, nor as if Ole or anybody else was trying to manipulate or somehow mentally kidnap me into being their puppet in some kind of fantasy world or something. No way. Yes, I can see how Ole in his younger days would have been harsher than I know him to be. Even a real a**hole. The Ole I see and speak with every day is not the guy I read about in the book...the Ole I know is a grumpy but good-hearted older man. Not that I am defending him for being a jerk in the past, it's just that I wasnt't there and some of those anecdotes are totally foreign to my experience here. Gee, in a way I wish I was in a REAL cult, it'd be so much easier. Just kidding. The things about their marraige I know nothing about. That is between you and Ole as far as I am concerned. It bothers me that there was stupid s**t going on in the past and especially that people got hurt. This news frankly comes as a real shock and I would like to see reconciliation, healing, and forgiveness here more than anybody. I wasn't there. These are nice people on my experience, not weirder than anybody else out there, and I feel at home and blessed to be a part of this body. So I was shocked to find out that I am in a cult. What do I do with this new knowledge? What does that have to do with me and my walk and my association with Trinity foundation? Gee, I guess that if you really were in a cult you wouldn't know it anyway, and furthermore my mind is the Antichrist and therefore not to be trusted, so which the hell way do I turn? That kind of talk is all a bunch of gobbledeegook to me, anyway. I don't worry about what you may say about whether I am in a cult or abusive group, I don't believe that that is the case and so "let go and let God". My spirit grieves for the ones who were hurt and like I said that news came as a real shock to my system. I want to see things get better too. So what do I do now? Nothing: IT IS FINISHED. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
Oh yes...I failed to mention that I did finish the book today. | ||
| paul_howey Intermediate Member Username: paul_howey Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.175.179.188 |
I was keeping my eye on Ole Anthony and the Trinity Foundation for some time and eventually went on to other things. Due to the tiny size of the group and lack of real connections to reach any of the members, I didn’t think it feasible to expend any further effort to expose this group. I am happy to see that some insiders have escaped his grip and are working to expose him. They probably have the proper connections necessary to reach the people involved. I appreciate their courage to start this string as well. With regards to genuine Biblically based Christianity, Ole Anthony is a false teacher plain and simple. Thankfully this is a small group and Ole is very old, but unfortunately some will likely follow in his very strange footsteps. I have reviewed a number of Ole’s mp3s teachings in the past. In addition to the various heresies and other assorted false doctrines in his teachings, as well as his highly unbiblical power control over a relatively small group of people, probably the next most telling thing about him is his “X-Rated” teaching series where he talks total trash in front of young children and like a devil gets them laughing and giggling at incredibly indecent and inappropriate things. His language is horrible. He swears and cusses without a hint of repentance and without a hint of any struggle to try and change. His publication, “The Door” with its clever sarcasm and witty satire make it seem like he has a handle on what’s wrong in the institutional church. His Trinity Foundation has done some fairly good work exposing various conmen money preachers. This work has often been referenced by prominent organizations and he has been quoted as an expert in quite a few publications. This makes him look like a true defender of the faith, which he is not. He has gained false credibility and has used it to make disciples unto himself. For those tired of con men money preachers and false churches, Ole Anthony and the Trinity Foundation seem like a breath of fresh air, so he is able to draw in followers on this basis, as well as by exploiting peoples' past hurts, etc. He doesn’t give these hurting and searching souls the solution: Jesus Christ and His written Word. He gives them Ole Anthony and his twisted ideas as well as membership in a small cultic group. He doesn’t make disciples of Christ, but disciples of Ole. He draws people in and gives them something even worse than manmade churchianity and people follow him like the self-made guru that he is. Jesus said that you shall know them by their fruit. The fruit of Ole’s "ministry” is disciples of Ole. Personally, he doesn’t strike me as dangerous to “life and limb” but I am no expert on such matters. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1407 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.29 |
"This is a matter it'd be best to leave to an older member of the Foundation to discuss. " I guess we aren't going to get that. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
Two things: First, I salute Paul Howey's discernment. I would say he has pegged Ole and the Trinity cult about right--and I speak from the perspective of someone who was there for over twenty years. Ole indeed has failed to point people to Jesus Christ as the true savior, preferring to step into that role himself. Second, (for trainedobserver), I have just heard that one of the Trinity elders has issued a response to the book. Of course, he is too cowardly to send it directly to us, but as soon as someone forwards it to us we will respond to it. | ||
| skeptik Intermediate Member Username: skeptik Post Number: 172 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 69.30.173.216 |
I may not join Trinity, but ya gotta admit that they were instrumental in exposing certain televangelical foibles and vices. Can anyone find that Primetime Live special on the Net? | ||
| cognizantone New member Username: cognizantone Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.0.101.67 |
Has anyone seen the front page of the Dallas Observer, it's OLE. Great article by Glenna Whitley | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
Thought you might be interested in this: From Dallas Observer, August 2, 2006 He brought down Robert Tilton, W.V. Grant and Larry Lea, three of Dallas' high-flying televangelists in the early 1990s. And when he wasn't diving in dumpsters to pick through preachers' trash, he was entertaining journalists from around the world at "The Block," Trinity Foundation's collection of homes in East Dallas. Reporters, heathen bunch that they are, found much to admire at Ole Anthony's Columbia Avenue compound: a small group of believers living simply, dwelling together and sharing their possessions, much like the early Christians; a charismatic, highly intelligent leader who challenged the compromised state of American Christianity; and a foundation dedicated to helping the homeless as well as hunting down slippery TV preachers. I remember a reporter who broke some of those stories on the televangelists telling me only a little facetiously that the person we really needed to investigate was Ole Anthony. But let's be honest, folks: We in the media were too busy begging Anthony for the next collection of dirt on America's shadier televangelists so we could call it our own. Then former Trinity member Wendy Duncan came out with a self-published book a few months ago called I Can't Hear God Anymoe: Life in a Dallas Cult; in it, she describes Trinity as a cult and depicts Anthony as a manipulative, deceitful bully. We must admit she kind of forced our hand. Dallas Observer investigative reporter Glenna Whitley set out to determine whether any of Duncan's claims hold water. And you'll find the result of her work in today's cover story, "The Cult of Ole." You don't want to miss this special report. It hits Dallas newsstands today}. Starting tomorrow right in this space, Glenna will also report some intriguing stuff about the famous Robert Tilton Primetime Live expose that you've never heard before. Julie Lyons, staff editor http://www.dallasobserver.com/blogs/?p=1088 http://www.dallasobserver.com/ Doug Duncan www.dallascult.com | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1593 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.31 |
How does he justify the lies he has told about his background? How do his followers? That puzzles me the most. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
I'm outta here, man. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
I'm outta here, man. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1610 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.96.28.192 |
z, Out of where? This forum or the cult? | ||
| franklin Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 3744 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.55.183.51 |
My experience with the Trinity Foundation was brief. I called the Cult Awareness Network (C.A.N.) for help against the W.O.F.F. cult. I did not know that C.A.N. was controlled by the Scientologists at the time. They weren't much help other than referring me to Trinity. I called the Trinity Foundation and a man I talked to was helpful by sending me a thick book of copied newspaper clippings about W.O.F.F. and a video tape of the Inside Edition story on the cult. Trinity had evidently supplied a plant to attend one of their services with a hidden camera. Needless to say what was filmed was ghastly horrible. But the person I talked to on the phone at Trinity was a little persistent in inviting me out to their Dallas headquarters. I thought it was creepy at the time. I refused politely of course. But they were helpful to me in that respect. That is all of my personal experience with Trinity. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
The cult, man. I'm leaving here in like five hours. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 209.102.205.218 |
The cult, man. I'm leaving here in like five hours. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1612 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.49 |
z, I know that must not have been any fun. I wish you luck and hope you have some support. So the book and the Dallas Observer have shaken things up a bit over there? Take care, | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.220.167.69 |
They're for the most part in totlal denial and will barely acknowledge the existence of the article. They won't talk about it. But I do know that this thing has put grave doubts in the minds of more TFI people than just myself. | ||
| cognizantone New member Username: cognizantone Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.0.101.67 |
I pray it puts grave doubts in the minds of the elders and board members. They allow Ole to do the things he does and have done. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1615 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.19 |
Did the book ever get discussed in the morning Bible studies? | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1616 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.26 |
This highlights one aspect of religion that I find fascinating, and that is the incredible tolerance for hypocrisy within, particularly tolerance of hypocrisy of the leadership, within groups whose entire existence is all about the pursuit of truth and righteousness. How can anyone be viewed as an authority, (Ole claims to have re-discovered lost "spiritual" truths) if he lies about who he is? I believe these cases give us a microcosmic view of the historical development of human religion. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.220.167.69 |
Come on, trainedobserver. You have it in for religion in general, as evidenced by your many, many postings on these boards. Do you want to contribute something to our discussion of TFI, or do you want to troll around these boards putting other people down for believing in God? I mean, I don't believe in religion either, but believe that Jesus is who He said he is and that He was telling the truth. Somebody once said that out of so crooked a material as a man, nothing straight can be built. Hypocrisy and BS is inevitable in any human endeavor, ESPECIALLY in the Church. But Jesus said it was bound to be this way. So I am not discouraged. I'd appreciate it if you'd stick to the topic (TFI), instead of using this as your forum to put believers down. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
One more interesting thing to add to the mix: now the Observer has put a piece up on their blog calling into question the integrity of the original PrimeTime Live investigation into Robert Tilton. This grew out of some things Glenna Whitley discovered in the court documents while she was researching the story on Ole. See http://www.dallasobserver.com/blogs/ | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.1.226.53 |
One more interesting thing to add to the mix: now the Observer has put a piece up on their blog calling into question the integrity of the original PrimeTime Live investigation into Robert Tilton. This grew out of some things Glenna Whitley discovered in the court documents while she was researching the story on Ole. See http://www.dallasobserver.com/blogs/ | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1618 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.39 |
"Hypocrisy and BS is inevitable in any human endeavor, ESPECIALLY in the Church." Well, if you agree with me zeuszor, why are you giving me a hard time? Honestly? I was at least making a comment about religion in general rather than saying it was predominate in one group over another. I think it is a valid and very important point to make about cults of which you seem to enthusiastically agree. I was raised in the church zeuszor, I was a Christian and a cult member. I think I have more than paid my dues and really don't require your permission to speak in this forum. ”I mean, I don't believe in religion either, but believe that Jesus is who He said he is and that He was telling the truth. “ This is double-talk. I'm familiar with this nonsense because I used to say it myself. Step back and look at what you've been doing. Like Shakespeare said, ”A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.” You may call your practice whatever you wish, the objective view is it is religious in nature. You have beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. You worship a supreme being, you observe rituals, rites, and feasts. That is by definition religion. ”Somebody once said that out of so crooked a material as a man, nothing straight can be built. “ I've never heard that one myself but it is symptomatic of the unrealistic and Machiavellian self-image that Christian cults often instill in followers. That is the great lie told to enslave the mind. The irony of the message is often reflected in the character of the messenger. As in this case, Ole is teaching people to distrust their own minds yet where do you think the idea originated? In Ole's mind. Regardless of what you may think of me, I still hope that things will go well with you in separating from that group. "...contribute something to our discussion of TFI,..." Well sir, you are the expert, please share with us. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 65.0.188.241 |
As to the quote: that was from imminent Idealist philosopher Immanuel Kant, author of "Critique of Pure Reason." He wrote that around 1770. What is your purpose here, to contribute something for the healing, reconciliation, and forgiveness of ex-TFIers, or to troll around here trying to persuade us to be atheists? That's all I'm asking. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1623 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.54 |
"What is your purpose here, to contribute something for the healing, reconciliation, and forgiveness of ex-TFIers, or to troll around here trying to persuade us to be atheists? That's all I'm asking." Quite frankly zeuszor I find your line of questioning unnecessarily antagonistic. I have said nothing to warrant those comments from you. What I have done is to encourage you to become more informed about the group you were associated with which looks like you considered good advice. I'm sorry you've found yourself in the situation you're in, but I am not your enemy. Nor do I want to “convert” you to anything. If you have read much of what I have written then you know that I more interested in how people think and arrive at their beliefs than what they believe. I am just interested in getting people to think for themselves zeuszor so they won't be taken advantage of by people like Ole Anthony. But more importantly I want to better understand myself and my own thinking. If you have a problem with that I suggest you reflect on why that would be so. ”What is your purpose here, .... trying to persuade us to be atheists? That's all I'm asking." ” My purpose? To examine and understand the claims made by TFI along with the concerns I addressed in posting 1208. Your original intent here was to defend TFI and Ole. You even asked me down to the block for a visit. Who was zooming who? I suggest you get with the ex-TFIers out there that are reaching out to people coming out of TFI. I'm sure you would benefit from the association. Peace, be well. | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 70.146.228.215 |
I would give anything to meet you, trainedobserver. Write me: zeuszor@hotmail.com | ||
| zeuszor New member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 70.146.228.215 |
Also, I mean no antagonism. Pardon me. | ||
| zeuszor Junior Member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 70.146.228.215 |
Let me put this out here: when I return to the metroplex I'm temporarily going to need a place to crash until I can get on my feet and all. I am not broke, having recently gotten out of the Army I have a few bucks socked away, and my plans are to find my own place and return to college in the fall. So I am not out to bum or mooch off of anybody. I just need a floor to crash on until I can get my life straightened out. I have enquired withing TFI as to crashing on somebody who is still there's floor (I still consider certain TFI individuals to be my friends) but would really rather not. In the absence of options though I would do that. The reason I ask this is that at this point in my life I just plain DO NOT want to have to live alone AT ALL. I just need a place to crash until I can get things rolling with school and all. Please write me: zeuszor@hotmail.com | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 64.216.243.210 |
From the Dallas Observer: The Gospel of Ole I'm glad someone finally had the courage to publish a book about the real Ole Anthony. Thank you, Wendy Duncan. And thanks to the Dallas Observer for having the journalistic savvy to follow up on it ("The Cult of Ole," by Glenna Whitley, August 3). On the surface, your comical front page seems almost silly. But that doesn't mean that the danger at Trinity isn't real. Unfortunately, the very word "cult" conjures up visions of something evil and extreme, and it's easy to miss the subtle criteria. Does a "cult leader" only earn that eerie title by causing a newsworthy tragedy? Isn't causing personal tragedy enough? Ole's ability to maintain such a startling level of psychological control over people's lives for so many years is scarier to me than a flash-in-the-pan madman. I doubt we'll ever see the dreaded headlines that something snapped and it all got ugly. It only gets personally ugly for people like Doug and Wendy, who trusted Ole Anthony, only to be devastated and disillusioned by his abuse and deception. No wonder they couldn't hear God anymore. Wendy Duncan's husband Doug was a close high school friend of mine, before and during the time he got into this Trinity Foundation mess. So I've known Ole was bad news since 1977, when Doug initially had some serious questions and wanted me to meet with him to check out his theology. Ole sat uncomfortably close to me in a circular booth at Denny's, with an imposing sensuality that was quite intimidating to a 21-year-old. After first testing my scriptural knowledge, he fed me his twisted revision. His spiritual pitch was about surrendering individual identity in favor of losing oneself in a melting oneness of all believers. He said this was the only way God would accept us in heaven, because expressing individuality meant asserting self, which was sinful. Ole said this was our eternal destiny, heavily implying that it should begin more tangibly in the here and now. Contrary to Ole, I felt that my relationship with God depended on it being personally intimate. So the obvious red flag was that if I bought his theology and laid down my identity, then I'd also relinquish my free will and the ability to make my own decisions. No, I wasn't thinking "Run, it's a cult!" But I did get his agenda--loud and clear. I've always believed that, from its very roots, Trinity represented something quite foreign from the true gospel. As for his watchdog business, the oldest trick in the book is finding someone worse to criticize to make yourself look better. He did that masterfully by going after the big ministry guns. The bigger the gun, the better it would make him seem. He wasn't one of "them"--he was the Christian crusader for justice. Or was he? Being the wife of an ordained minister for many years has put me on the forefront of concern about corruption in the church. But Ole's methods of exposing televangelists were almost gleeful and bloodthirsty. Based on that alone, you gotta wonder what team he's batting for. He is like a surgeon who goes after a disease by slicing the patient to death with a kitchen knife. A skilled surgeon will treat the patient, not ravage him. Apparently, he dealt with his own ministry the same way. I hope that Ole's antics being exposed will curtail others from getting involved with him. I also hope that his career as a watchdog is shut down. Ministers are people, too, and inevitably some will do things wrong. There is certainly much to correct. But who should handle the wrong and how? Ole is surely not the "who," and he doesn't have the compassion or a clue about the scriptural way to do the "how." Ole Anthony claims to represent my God? I don't think so. J.T. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 64.216.243.210 |
A reporter up in Pittsburgh just quoted Ole in an article about a preacher. I wrote to her via e-mail to make her aware of the book my wife wrote and the subsequent article in the Dallas Observer. She wrote back to me and said that she was aware of both the book and the article, but that Ole still had the best archives and the most information on various ministries, so she still used him to get the information she needed for her story. She said if she had to wait around for morally pure sources to use she might as well get out of journalism. I'm still sorting this one out. On the one hand, I guess she has a point. If you need information you have to go to the people who have that information. On the other hand, when Ole is quoted in the press like that it tends to lend him an air of moral authority that he does not deserve. If his goal is to get quoted a lot in the media (and I think it is), then he has carved out a pretty good little niche for himself. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 1683 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.2 |
Do you have any knowledge or feeling about how the book and recent articles has affected the membership of Ole's flock? | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 64.216.243.210 |
As far as I can tell, they are in denial. They are choosing to ignore it rather than see it as an opportunity for corporate self-examination and a possible stimulus to correction and healing. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 64.216.243.210 |
Hey, there is a new development in this story. The November issue of Charisma magazine has an article about this controversy. The article breaks no new ground, but it is a good, objective piece. You can check out a teaser on the web at http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=13954 | ||
| zeuszor Junior Member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 74.230.57.236 |
Ole of late has been ill (what else is new?) and is apparently bedridden most of the time these days. However, Gary has been conducting the morning Bible studies. Bible study my foot...what's really sad is when Ole berates the group (as he does often) to say, "Twenty-five years I've been telling you this and you still don't get it." As if he's the only one in the room who understands what he's talking about. This is one of his mechanisms of control over the group. Most present sit rapt in their attention, hanging on to Ole's every word, as if he is the source and author of Truth. All this negative attention (Wendy's book, the Observer piece, etc.) has hit TFI pretty hard, both financially and in terms of it's psychological effect on the individual "core group" members. They've lost donation $$$ over this and I hear that they're existing in the red right now. It really has made them face up to some of TFI's ugly realities and has produced a lot of cognitive dissonance and stress in the proces...Pete has taken it particularly hard and is pretty stressed out and dealing with a lot of anxiety right now. But Ole's getting busted has been a shock to the system of more folks than just Pete's. That's what I am told, anyway; I haven't seen or spoken with any of them since last August. But I still speak with certain individuals in the community who keep me informed about what's going on with certain things. You never know what somebody might overhear over a bowl of oatmeal, huh? I further was told that there was a woman who showed up at the Feast of Tabernacles and had never been on the block before. She knew TFI by reputation (a good one in the mainstream press until lately) but was aware of Wendy's book and it's claims. This woman came to get an more personal impression of TFI and was considering making a donation of $10,000. Well, she goes to Tabernacles, right? Guess what, Ole was there, berating, bad-mouthing and generally gossipping mercilessly about a member who was in good standing with the community and for whatever reason couldn't make it to the feast. So here's Ole talking s**t about a community member, fully in the prescence of a first-time visitor, a guest who knew about TFI through the New Yorker piece and other butt-kissing articles. She was going to make a substantial donation before she actually met Ole in person and saw how he really is. I've seen Ole mistreat visitors before; his pet peeve is when somebody is looking in their Bible or reading ahead, otherwise not paying full attention to him while he is lecturing. I've seen Ole berate guests to the block for doing that and seen people never come back. His attitude is, when asked about why he treats people this way: "If you don't like it, leave. I didn't invite you here." This is a "man of God"? | ||
| zeuszor Junior Member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 74.230.57.236 |
Ole of late has been ill (what else is new?) and is apparently bedridden most of the time these days. However, Gary has been conducting the morning Bible studies. Bible study my foot...what's really sad is when Ole berates the group (as he does often) to say, "Twenty-five years I've been telling you this and you still don't get it." As if he's the only one in the room who understands what he's talking about. This is one of his mechanisms of control over the group. Most present sit rapt in their attention, hanging on to Ole's every word, as if he is the source and author of Truth. All this negative attention (Wendy's book, the Observer piece, etc.) has hit TFI pretty hard, both financially and in terms of it's psychological effect on the individual "core group" members. They've lost donation $$$ over this and I hear that they're existing in the red right now. It really has made them face up to some of TFI's ugly realities and has produced a lot of cognitive dissonance and stress in the proces...Pete has taken it particularly hard and is pretty stressed out and dealing with a lot of anxiety right now. But Ole's getting busted has been a shock to the system of more folks than just Pete's. That's what I am told, anyway; I haven't seen or spoken with any of them since last August. But I still speak with certain individuals in the community who keep me informed about what's going on with certain things. You never know what somebody might overhear over a bowl of oatmeal, huh? I further was told that there was a woman who showed up at the Feast of Tabernacles and had never been on the block before. She knew TFI by reputation (a good one in the mainstream press until lately) but was aware of Wendy's book and it's claims. This woman came to get an more personal impression of TFI and was considering making a donation of $10,000. Well, she goes to Tabernacles, right? Guess what, Ole was there, berating, bad-mouthing and generally gossipping mercilessly about a member who was in good standing with the community and for whatever reason couldn't make it to the feast. So here's Ole talking s**t about a community member, fully in the prescence of a first-time visitor, a guest who knew about TFI through the New Yorker piece and other butt-kissing articles. She was going to make a substantial donation before she actually met Ole in person and saw how he really is. I've seen Ole mistreat visitors before; his pet peeve is when somebody is looking in their Bible or reading ahead, otherwise not paying full attention to him while he is lecturing. I've seen Ole berate guests to the block for doing that and seen people never come back. His attitude is, when asked about why he treats people this way: "If you don't like it, leave. I didn't invite you here." This is a "man of God"? | ||
| zeuszor Junior Member Username: zeuszor Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 74.230.57.236 |
There's a new subsection in Rick Ross' database for Trinity Foundation: http://www.rickross.com/groups/trinity.html | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 76.184.199.155 |
FYI - a book review of I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult was published in the Cultic Studies Review. I Can’t Hear God Anymore Wendy Duncan Rowlett, Texas: VM Life Resources, LLC, 2006, 228 pages. ISBN: 0-977660-0-X. Reviewed by Lois V. Svoboda, M.D., L.M.F.T. Ms. Duncan’s first person account of her seven-year experience as a member of The Trinity Foundation of Dallas, Texas, an outwardly reputable Christian organization set up to model Christian living at its best, ranks along side of Hassan’s Combating Cult Mind Control and other first person cult narratives. For years I have searched for a book that could clarify from a Christian perspective both the scripture twisting and the theological distortions that quasi-Christian cults inflict on their members. This book fits such a niche. When I Can’t Hear God Anymore arrived in the mail I picked it up curiously, intending to look it over. It proved to be a page turner, and I finished it the day it arrived. I couldn’t put it down. Duncan has done her homework. She has done a difficult thing: made the process by which she was seduced into membership into a highly authoritarian group with bizarre personal reinterpretations of scripture seem both understandable and reasonable. She addresses her particular vulnerabilities which blinded her to warning signs that all was not well in this group. She spells out the promise that fired her imagination. After a couple of divorces, causing her to be treated as an outsider in her own Christian denomination, she welcomed input from other and supposedly wiser people in choosing her next partner. She also balances the positives of group life (no more loneliness, a ready made social system, a sense of community) with the negatives. What is different about this book is the apparent “evangelical mainstreamness” of the Trinity Foundation. Duncan was no naive, idealistic teenager. She was adult, in her forties, with a Master’s degree from a seminary and a stable job. She knew about cults. She checked out the group she was considering in several ways before joining. But in spite of her precautions, she still fell in and stayed in seven years. She writes in a clear, straightforward manner. She organizes her material logically, including the theological distortions of her group leader, Ole Anthony. Superficially, the language and doctrine of her leader would be recognizable to any evangelical, although idiosyncratic. But the idiosyncrasies can be rationalized by the intelligence and originality of its leader. But also as in most cults, there was a discrepancy between the doctrine and the behaviors of the group. She has organized her material into chapters about her process of gradually being drawn into the group, the leader, his theology—including both orthodoxy and distortions, the ways the leader used scripture to systematically break down members’ egos, and her exiting the group. She describes the multiple metastases within her system of the pernicious doctrinal distortions, some of which took years to erase. Her recovery, interestingly, was done with a minimum of professional help. She details how she did that. To someone unfamiliar with mainstream Christianity, the great detail that she uses to describe the theological distortions and scripture twisting that are part of the working credos of the Trinity Foundation may seem drawn out and overdone; but for me, it’s the kind of detail I have felt some of the testimonials of other pseudo Christian group former members have glossed over or left out. I would recommend this book without reservation to anyone who is interested in understanding why the Christian church has always relied on scripture and why the church through the ages has rested on orthodoxy. Families, former high authority group members, pastors, students, could all benefit. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 76.184.199.155 |
}New piece on the blog: http://www.dallasobserver.com/blogs/?p=2293#more-2293 | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 297 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.66.221.169 |
Whether Trinity Foundation is a cult or not, I am glad it has been highly instrumental in rightfully exposing televangelists. Thank God for that. A 40+ year old educated woman who says she knew about cults but was still fooled for 7 years?? I don't buy it. It doesn't take much investigation of that organization to see that something might be amiss. And it doesn't require knowing about cults. | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 298 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.66.221.169 |
Whether Trinity Foundation is a cult or not, I am glad it has been highly instrumental in rightfully exposing televangelists. Thank God for that. A 40+ year old educated woman who says she knew about cults but was still fooled for 7 years?? I don't buy it. It doesn't take much investigation of that organization to see that something might be amiss. And it doesn't require knowing about cults. | ||
| formercultist New member Username: formercultist Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 76.184.199.155 |
But that is just the point, anony. Wendy did investigate, but nobody told her that anything was amiss. Fortunately, that could not happen now, since she wrote her book. The information is out there. New information on the Observer blog: http://www.dallasobserver.com/blogs/?p=2308#more-2308 |
