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voidgate
Member
Username: voidgate
Post Number: 65
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 144.138.162.204
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:41 pm: | 
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Ramtha stated a long time ago that many of his advanced students did not know how to say "NO!".
This is quite evident considering the enormous amount of red wine consumption of students and the resulting behaviour which is far from enlightened. Just how far can the teacher mislead them before they object?
It is well understood medically the effects of excessive alcohol consumption....cirrhosis, alcoholic hepatitis, fatty liver brain damage, gastritis and other medical conditions.
I have been amonst advanced students who consume an enormous amount on a very regular basis....they are emulating the example by Ramtha on the stage and considering such consumption is beneficial contrary to the available evidence. I personally know someone who is showing signs of poor health due to excessive drinking. The person was not a drinker prior to the "wine ceremonies." How many alcoholics have been produced as a result of these teachings?
I have not personally attended a class where this occurred but I have been informed by numerous advanced students and Whatchamacallit's posts on this site confirm the information. I have been told of students having sex in the bushes, outside near the name field, in a drunken state. I have heard of the stories of many students vomiting because they do not normally drink, or drink very little. This is "advanced" tuition. Whatchamacallit's posts have stated it has occurred in the arena.....presumably amongst about 1000 people with children present.
What sort of organisation permits this? It is a cult-like environment being fostered. Where were the administrators at the time and why did they not take these individuals, sober them up and get them to leave the class as any respectable organisation would do?
Whatchamacallit has been present when Ramtha has vomited on stage and been drunk. Why didn't the Red Guards (administrators of RSE) get him off the stage for exhibiting such an example?
This is the sort of "tuition" that people have paid an enormous sum of money for. Initially when the teachings change for the next brand of "enlightenment" students do not know in advance what is on the agenda....thus they are paying the money and find out afterwards. Some do say NO and do leave.....without a refund.
It was stated by Ramtha that if one consumes wine when one is listening to a "Master" that it reconfigures the neurons in the brain for benefit and that it should only be consumed when the environment was lofty. What sort of neurological connection is it formulating if people are copulating in front of hundreds of other people? It is the standard exhibition of the hypocrisy of the teachings where one thing is stated and after some period there is a complete reversal of that teaching.
The glossy advertising never mentions this sort of "tuition". I heard last year that products associated with the excessive wine consumption were going to be taken off the shelves. I paid a considerable amount for a Ramtha CD that was available to advanced students. The title sounded great. The content.....a very drunken audience that in general agreed with anything Ramtha said and a discourse that was not worth listening to. I asked for a refund and the answer from RSE was a standard NO.
Do you really trust a teacher with such a track record? Is he leading people out of the ditch, or into it? |
voidgate
Member
Username: voidgate
Post Number: 73
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 144.138.162.161
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 3:12 am: |
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I would like to know exactly what the administrators are doing in these drunken "ceremonies". Have they passed out? Are they vomiting also? Are they capable of any form of administrative capacity? Who keeps giving Ramtha the wine? Why don't they take him off the stage direct to nearest A.A. meeting?
Are the children participating in the drinking also? |
voidgate
Member
Username: voidgate
Post Number: 78
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 144.138.162.141
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 3:47 pm: |
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The following is a description I received from a participant in a couple of Boktau events. A Boktau is a class that lasts for one month.
The students were so drunk from "wine ceremonies" that there were actually pedophile instances....drunken men who were caught attempting, or actually molesting children. It is unlikely that the police were ever called by students, or staff. Students are very "secretive" about the teachings and after all they have signed the gag order that they must no divulge what occurs at the events because it is "sacred".
Students were arriving at the events already drunk at the time.....because of the example of Ramtha on the stage previously and the conclusion that this amount of drinking is "beneficial."
There was a bonfire set up outside and "toasts" with red wine went on for a few hours. After it was over people got ill and started throwing up all over the place. They were endeavoring to stumble back to the arena. Later the arena was filled with the stench of vomit.
There were accidents....broken legs and other injuries and a couple of people ended up in the emergency room. Lots of people were up sick and crying all night.
One of the staff accidentally ran over someone with a pickup, or golf cart. They were using the pickup to carry those who could not make it back to the arena.
Children were not allowed at the wine ceremony then (it implies they were later...my comments). They were in the arena with one of Ramtha's appointed tutors. Then all the drunk people came back to the arena and the children saw all of that.
At later events when the pipe smoking began many young children had their own pipes at all events and smoked with the adults. It is illegal in the United States for children to smoke until they are 17. Apparently children younger than 10 were smoking. It was left to the parents to decide if their children should participate in the pipe smoking.
Supposedly the staff at the time were supposed to have their own separate wine ceremony and were not supposed to participate in the main one.
The truth is rather different to the glossy maketing agenda and unfortunately many never hear of the reality behind closed doors. |
mathew_morrell
New member
Username: mathew_morrell
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 12.73.201.146
| | Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 1:41 am: |
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JZ’s wine ceremonies are representative of an important philosophical-spiritual shift RSE made circa the mid-nineties. Increasingly, at about this time, we begin to see spiritual exercises designed to dim consciousness. We see practices like the wine ceremony, or twilight beach, or subliminal programming, which induce an unconscious state. Instead of heightening consciousness, practices like these lessen our ability to will, to think, to analyze, or observe in an open and objective manner. Right Hand paths approach the Divine from the standpoint of clear, wide-awake thinking, not by anesthetizing the will, nor by blunting the mind, and reject “the trance state” or the “delirium” as a means to attaining spiritual knowledge. The “delirium” is a short cut. It the quick and easy way preferred by practitioners of the Left Hand paths. |
whatchamacallit
Intermediate Member
Username: whatchamacallit
Post Number: 159
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 71.235.182.97
| | Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 8:01 pm: |
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Mathew,
I believe I understand what you are saying in your post. However, I somewhat disagree (that's alright, isn't it? LOL). What you pointed out about the techniques that were introduced being of the type that dim consciousness, I agree with. However, I think that the elements that led up to that, and the prior techniques (including C&E and a gazillion hours on end on the field) also had the same effect. It was not mind enhancing, it was mind numbing. Students said they could not hold their focus and get to the void. Of course they couldn't. After 4, 6, 10, 12 hours, or 24 hours on the field, nobody could sustain their focus. The brain wants to put you to sleep. Oh! But, that's your personality trying to do you in!! So you fight harder to stay focused.
I propose that if one has to fight so hard to attain enlightenment, perhaps they ought to reevaluate who they are and what they really believe and want, and WHY. The Law of Attraction should be elegant and efficient. I don't believe anyone needs RSE to try to force oneself to change. Plenty of people have tried and it doesn't work. Now, they are paying for their mistaken judgment and losses for their faith.
In that regard, I don't think that the shift that did occur in the mid-90's, brought in something new - but simply changed tracks on a record, so to speak. A new "teaching" that was akin to students needing to have the newest model car, and be elite in their receipt of the newest, most up-to-date path to Enlightenment.
There was also a lot of pressure to "hold the teachings sacred". That translated into not telling anyone about the teachings. Of course not! It's good for business to have people secreting the truth away ! Some students went along with that pressure; others like myself, did not. Nobody is going to tell me I can't TALK about something I choose to talk about as long as the Constitution of the United States of America is in effect !!!!! I shared what I learned with some friends, and close family. They didn't all share my passion, anyway.
I digress.
Back in the early days of the school, the CONTROL element was very much in tact. So was dangling that carrot JUST out of anyone's reach. Other than some occasional success, finding one's card (perhaps even multiple times), or focusing during C& E, the boundaries for "success" were still there.
You could not have any doubt (we all have doubt!), or guilt, or shame, or any "baggage" on the line, or you wouldn't likely see your manifestation come to fruition. Okay, now that eliminates probably everyone since we're humans with all sorts of good/bad experiences under our belt with associated emotions. Everything done was strictly regimented and inflexible.
continued to part 2 of 2 |
whatchamacallit
Intermediate Member
Username: whatchamacallit
Post Number: 160
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 71.235.182.97
| | Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 8:03 pm: |
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Part 2 of 2
Over the years, in my opinion, that has morphed and changed. Now, it's common for the teachings that the students won't discuss, to be talked about by JZ/Ramtha at audiences on the Tour. It's okay for JZ to give her interpretation of the teachings, but nobody else can.
Then, at other times, students were told to teach this to your family. Be a light to the world and share what you know.
Hmmm...but then there is the issue of the gag order.
Which prevails (insert sarcasm) ? Being told TO talk, or told to sign that you won't? Hypocritical.
Anyway, I think that the morphing of the disciplines over the years, has always had the element of RSE-control-codependency issues. If students had TRULY been given the FULL information to set themselves free and into Enlightenment, it would have happened by now. Many people gave up everything they had, or close to it, because they were DEDICATED to the Great Work. Had they full information, then we would have seen many Genuine Masters by now.
Something is very wrong with the equation.
I don't know that the teachings are a ship's plank into the abyss of a left-hand path, so much as they are just partial-truths that don't go beyond keeping people co-dependent on the school in whatever way. Free thinkers are not tolerated.
the end |
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