| Author | Message | ||
     freeindeed New member Username: freeindeed Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 4.156.99.221 |
Can anyone tell me where I can find it? I have tried to locate it here on FactNet but don't see it anywhere. Thanks. | ||
| hodeuon Advanced Member Username: hodeuon Post Number: 522 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.50.121.170 |
http://s10.invisionfree.com/DiscussGGWO/index.php?showtopic=29 and http://www.carlstevens.org/gpage4.html | ||
| freeindeed New member Username: freeindeed Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 4.156.100.127 |
Thanks, Hodeuon! | ||
| redsnapper New member Username: redsnapper Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 216.183.184.253 |
> | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 151.201.120.41 |
Does anyone here know where Paul Stevens moved to, or if he is still a pastor, etc? does anyone here know the Langs? | ||
| dancer Intermediate Member Username: dancer Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.211.238 |
Paul lives where he has always lived in Maryland. he hasn't moved. I can't say I know much about the Langs. He has a fairly decent size church in area close to Fallston | ||
| cordell Intermediate Member Username: cordell Post Number: 118 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.124.124.36 |
I know the Langs. somebonus@yahoo.com | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.253.31.200 |
Do you know the name of Paul's church in Fallston? | ||
| anon_brief New member Username: anon_brief Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.202 |
Finished Work Ministries | ||
| shat_happens Junior Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 72.228.98.159 |
This story killed my mother...or so GG says! Damn those COCKatrice eggs! | ||
| ariel Intermediate Member Username: ariel Post Number: 181 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.77.25.199 |
IMPORTANT Please Note: On the Carl Stevens.org website the menu links on the left of the page The Alan Lang Story has been edited to read as "the Frank Smith Story" The paranoid at Greater Grace have "edited" out the Langs names (Alan & Margaret) and replaced it with the ficticious names "Frank & Tricia Smith" See the 2nd post by Hodeuon at the top of this page. Connect to the link that says "invasion free.com/ Discuss GGWO" for the unedited version. From what I have heard Greater Grace people are still very freaked out by this story, hence the need to "edit" names out. What are you afraid of o paranoid ones at Greater Grace? (Message edited by ariel on November 11, 2007) | ||
| hodeuon Advanced Member Username: hodeuon Post Number: 634 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.160.68.38 |
The names were not changed by GGWO. The carlstevens.org site changed the names for reasons of privacy. Hodeuon | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 665 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
a little late for that, isn't it....that story has been all over the internet for years...even before the GGWO Factnet posts began | ||
| redsnapper Junior Member Username: redsnapper Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 216.183.185.93 |
Hodeuon said: The carlstevens.org site changed the names for reasons of privacy. Hodeuon} Whose privacy ? The Langs knew the story was out here for the last 3 years. It seems that website administrator did so more out of deference to the embarrassed parties still associated with "the ministry" I agree with WHATSUP. Its a "little late" for the pretend privacy posture..  Graeter Grace always had an aversion to full disclosure. But now too many people know. That lawsuit confirmed it. Too late now....the truth is out there  | ||
| anon_brief Advanced Member Username: anon_brief Post Number: 651 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.202 |
I agree that it's impossible to put the genie back into the bottle; however, I believe that it's pretty apparent that you have not actually gone to www.carlstevens.org or if you have, you have not even clicked on "Frank Smith's Story". The only names that have been changed were those of the writer and his wife. Otherwise, the representatives of GGWO names are present and unchanged. You are wrong in what you are stating. You are obviously wrong about the intentions of the website owner. You should retract your statement, correct it, and make an apology as publicly as you made your accusation. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 666 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Sometimes I wonder if posts here are actually serious or facetious, but have to conclude they are indeed serious, as incredulous as some are. "The only names that have been changed were those of the writer and his wife." Amazing. Now wouldn't those be precisely the names that really mattered? | ||
| anon_brief Advanced Member Username: anon_brief Post Number: 652 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.202 |
Let me break it down for you, oh obtuse one - the VICTIMS are being protected, not the PERPETRATOR(S). It really doesn't matter to whom it happened. It matters who did it and how it happened. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.77.215 |
Yes... the story had been posted on the web for several years--both without the permission of one of the "parties" involved, and regardless of the protests of that "party." The incident was painful for this "party." The "parties" children are getting older, and the "party" was concerned for the privacy of those children. GGWO had nothing to do with the names being changed. The names were changed at the request of that particular "party." Anon_brief is absolutely correct. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 667 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Whatever the motive might have been, it is rather pointless to change names after the story has been online for years and can be brought up on sites other than that particular one. AND the perpetrators have children too...what about their privacy. AND let us not forget that one of the "parties" being protected is the one that posted his story on the web for all to see in the first place. He should have considered his children then, just as the other "party" should have considered them when the events were all taking place. I don't think that story should ever have been on the internet at all, but it is way too late now. Even an obtuse one such as myself can realize these things. | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2316 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 71.40.2.121 |
I notice they didn't change my name, but then, I can protect myself. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.77.215 |
please note, whatsup, that the story in question was originally titled the "Alan Lang Story." The title itself is pretty indicative of what the story was/is all about. Have you actually read the story? I know some of the "characters" involved, and I can assure you that Alan Lang knows a little something about poetic license. The story is/was completely one-sided--the great and kind-hearted Alan Lang against the evil forces of GGWO and the adulterous spouse. Poor, poor innocent Alan Lang. There is another side to the story, and that side is just as ugly. Alan Lang got what he wanted--$$$ and revenge. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 668 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Oh, I read the story online several years ago, before any of us were posting on GG Factnet site. It was one of my first revelations of the evil going on behind the scenes at GG...I was pretty shocked to read it. I do not doubt that it was one sided and that no one involved was completely innocent. It was definitely very ugly from any side you look at it. And it was definitely very stupid of Alan Lang to broadcast it on the internet. The repercussions of his stupidity in doing that can not be erased simply by substituting some silly phony names. The whole situation is incredibly sad | ||
| isabella Advanced Member Username: isabella Post Number: 787 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 96.233.32.104 |
"It was definitely very ugly from any side you look at it. And it was definitely very stupid of Alan Lang to broadcast it on the internet. The repercussions of his stupidity in doing that can not be erased simply by substituting some silly phony names." Alan Lang did not broadcast this on the internet. Louise (used to be Maguire) did. "Paul maintained contact with my wife by phone, a few times during the year, and in between my wife's visits to GGWO headquarters in Baltimore, in addition to sending her birthday cards. In 1998 we went online. Paul continued contacting my wife now by e-mail. My wife and I were friendly with Paul. He was more so friendlier with her. I made the mistake of overlooking this, since he was a pastor and Pastor Steven's son. Also, Paul and my wife had known each other previous to our marriage, and Paul was already married to a quiet, attractive Christian woman named Barbara....and Years before, Tricia and I engaged in many casual conversations with Paul during our work at the school. Back then I began to observe his unsolicited mention of behind the scenes church gossip in detail. Included were items such as who was getting married, splitting up and why, plus who had an affair and also who was an "enemy of the ministry". Paul tended to portray former members as fornicators, alcoholics, gay, or "just arrogant to walk away from the geographical call (meaning GGWO in Baltimore) of God on their lives.....and He was privy to all this since his Dad appointed him as church marriage counselor"... I stopped at our apartment briefly, saw Tricia, who by this time was sensing I knew something, was very defensive, threatened to leave me and the kids and kill herself if I didn't tell her what I was up to. http://www.carlstevens.org/gpage4.html Since when did The Bible Speaks, The Greater Grace World Outreach, Grace Ministries, IAGM, GIAM...(whatever) care about anyone, let alone the children of the people in their cult?!!!! They did not care.... It's a small one, but it's still one....(cult) May God forgive them for these things. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 669 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Isabella, Alan Lang most certainly did post his story on the internet. That was the whole point of his writing it...to make his story public, and to expose GG and everyone involved. It was his revenge. I read the story online long before Factnet. All Louise did was copy and paste. | ||
| david_munson Senior Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 4449 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 63.22.242.152 |
Are we now to question the methods that God uses for His own purposes? Eyes have been opened and that is what was needed. What is it to you how God's hand works? Rejoice that truth has set captives free instead of grumbling about it. He knows what He is doing and who is usable and open to be used. He also knows who will and will not respond to correction which is what this is all about,mostly. God wins. } | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
I haven't posted in over a year but just could not help myself here . I knew Alan Lang back in the day, and talked to him a few times before and after this story ever hit the internet. NO ONE AT GREATER GRACE wanted to take him seriously. He was devasted.(Duh!I wonder why ???) At the time he had just got his family back and his dittzy wife was still in love with the cult. Call him what you will, but he had the ballz to post his story and SIGN his name. You would not be reading about Greater Grace on factnet, or IGAM, or many other defections, or The Baltimore Sun article if Alan did not do such a vewy naughty thing. For the most righteous among you factnetters, If you can't give him a grudging bit of credit ask yourself ; What would you have done in his shoes? And for you Miscanthus dont tell me you would just walk away because it looks like your'e still very much a cult member by what you propose and a much bigger hypocrite. There is a time for calling your opponent to account. I hate war, but I hate bullies more. This guy obviously tried the matthew 18 or 19 way in the bible and to no avail. If you are implying that his dittzy wife protested this story being posted, consider her part of the payoff; first she has sex with her good friend Barbara Stevens husband: Paul, then she she acts as a co-plaintiff in the lawsuit against him and the cult. Isnt that very self serving on her part, she screws her friends husband then joins in suing his church, and helps spend the settlement. She wanted it both ways, poor poor Margaret. Theres a street term I cant use without being banned here for someone who betrays her friends,her husband, and kids then wants anonymity after suing and spending the cash. This girl needs big time help! What really pi___es you off Miscanthus, or Whatsup ? That you didn't get a cut of the settlement? Then sue them yourselves. Isabella was correct about Lousie McGuire posting this story on factnet and not Alan. and I dont understand all his theological yip-yap but at least Jim Fawcett had the nuts to tell the Langs to sue the #%&$!!&&??. Munson had part of it right, God did win when Greater Grace was exposed. They could no longer use his name so profanely AND they could not use women so easily after that. Am I the only one paying attention here? Hello ??!! Hello ??! (Message edited by buggin on November 25, 2007) | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 75 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD... GO FACTNET ! | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2317 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
You can buy lots of great yipyap books-- understandable even to the most theologically challenged--on amazon.com -- try something easy by J.I. Packer. In spite of all that's happened, I would not advise them differently--because there is still no internal mechanism for disciplining errant 'pastors' inside GGWO. I read Alan Lang's story on the internet posted on Bob Pardon's site in 2002. It was there by permission of Alan Lang. It was up on that site for quite some time. It has been on carlstevens.org for the better part of the past two years. It was Pardon who put me in touch with the Langs in the first place. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 670 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
buggin, I am not pi__ed off as you put it, not at all. If you read my posts you will see that I was simply saying it was silly to change the names in a story that has been on the web for years. I think GG should have been exposed and called to account for what happened....and that Margaret (or is it Tricia) was by no means innocent either. Suing is one thing, but to broadcast it to the world on the internet was stupid, and to try to cover up the names years later even more stupid. Just my opinion. And to state the obvious once again, Alan Lang DID post the story online to begin with, and if he had not, Louise would not have been able to post it on Factnet. The internet is a lot bigger than Factnet. No, buggin, you are not the only one paying attention, but you could pay a little closer attention to some things | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2318 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
Let's get the timeline straight: 1999--Paulie and Mrs. Lang have their fling. 2000--the Langs are reunited and go to PA. 2001--Alan posts the story on Pardon's website. 2002--I make contact with the Langs, after which I am contacted by the higher and mightiers at GG who haven't spoken to me in over a decade--they tell me to back off. I advise the Langs to sue. Their lawyer sends a suit under seal to Mike Marr who informs CHS and Paulie of the impending doom. They are collectively a-peein' their pants at the European convention when they find out the possible consequences. There is a BIG payoff, which is covered up. The first posts concerning GG show up on FN without much response. Carl goes progressively non compos mentis and eventually declares that we are saved by obedience. 2004--The Baltimore Sun article covers the internet expose of Carl's shenanigans and Mr. Naughtyevilnastyman posts Paulie's emails declaring his undying love for Mrs. Lang. Much theological and doctrinal yipyapping ON FACTNET eventually provokes the discontented amongst the 'pastors' to make up a lot of sh_t at a place called Sandy Cove. They do this again and GG eventually goes down the greased pole with the self appointed EE--LIE--JAR Tommytom at the uhhh--uuhhh helm. The other 'pastors' make up some other crap and eventually elect a new pope in Tacoma, also called Tom to head up the IAGM (I Am God's Man) ministry. Thousands flee and there are a thousand fleas. Now we breathlessly await with our freewill of course, the next major event on God's prophetic calendar---THE DEMISE OF CHS or the Rapture of everybody except the 144,000 virgin male Jewboys, JEE HOE VAH'S witlesses, all the pretribbers and the 72 remaining virgins still unboinked by Paulie. | ||
| dancer Senior Member Username: dancer Post Number: 1272 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.245.119.68 |
Give that man a contract! Damn Cordell you manage to include everything except the others having affairs within the GGWO offices who were singing to the world about the payoff, an affair or two in MBCS which help create complete chaos within the MBCS world, and the eventual move of fist fights in the chapel to the hallways of MBCS to annoint the next prophet, that would be Tommy of course. You know how you have those rock and roll family trees like with the Byrds and CSNY. You think those trees have some incest going on? Damn nothing compares to the adultry tree in of GGWO staff members, eventual staff change, and even new Elders, not to mention school principals and MBCS/GGWO staff. Any love children we should know about? No pun intended. I need a cigeratte after that little trip down memmory lane. After hearing Mike Marr, and rest of company talk my head off prior to the Sun article I use to wonder if it was all a bunch of lies than why was there such a defense? Few years the obvious has become it was a bunch of lies to the point of no return. I mean CHS was never abusing pain medicine right? OK and nobody was blackmailed in counseling? And if you catch any 70 year old men in Fallston wearing a whig (on top of a toupe!) please be careful not to ask him any doctrinal questions concerning booze while he is purchasing a bottle to hit with some pain pills. | ||
| johncollins Intermediate Member Username: johncollins Post Number: 283 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.143.75.131 |
Cordell wrote, "2002--I make contact with the Langs, after which I am contacted by the higher and mightiers at GG who haven't spoken to me in over a decade--they tell me to back off." Other than the obvious (they didn't want the truth to be made known), did they dare give you any reason that you should give a flying fig as to what they wanted / didn't want you to do? "There is a BIG payoff, which is covered up." Covered up for a couple years. Until they used the facts to blackmail Paul for his rebellion, and apparently to ensure he'd be out of the running to ever be able to inherit the throne. Or... was there more going on besides? | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2319 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
It was the same ol' spiritual intimidation crap they used to slam us with when we were on the inside--they made claims that Alan Lang was mental and they had fingerprint evidence that he had done something akin to mail fraud or tampering by putting unstamped letters in people's private boxes. I mean, I didn't want to be on the same side as a gen-you-whine looney did I? And of course they said unequivocally that Paulie was an innocent man and that Lang was delusional. In the long run it wasn't Alan's published story that convinced me they had a case against GG. It was Margaret's story told to me over the phone that convinced me. If Paulie had just been one more naughty pastor it would have been just another affair--no big deal. BUT--Paulie wasn't just any pastor, he was GG's OH-fishul relationship counselor and it was under this guise that he did his diddling--he posed as someone attempting to counsel a couple in a troubled marriage. There was a lot of hankypanky at GGWO/TBS over the years, and lots of cover ups. This was the first time there was ever a payoff to cover someone's backside--not just Paulie's but Carl's as well. Depending on WHO you were you maybe got away with your diddling. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
hello... I have not now, nor have I ever been, affiliated with GGWO. What would any decent man have done in Alan Lang's shoes? 1) Acknowledge there were a myriad of unresolved problems in his marriage pre-affair, accept the fact that the affair occurred, and that his wife returned to him only after having been rejected by Paul, AND THEN: a) Work with REAL marriage counselors to help resolve the problems in the marriage, love and cherish his wife and children, and forgive and forget. b) Get a divorce and move on. OR c) Do what Mr Lang actually did, and become bitter and sour over having been "cheated" on, refuse to either forgive or forget, seek revenge by suing the church and plastering his OWN version of events on the internet (making sure to maximize the contributions of his "enemies," and being absolutely sure to minimize his own contributions to the situation), and then use the affair to make his entire family miserable for the rest of his days because he suffered. Takes more ballz to do either a or b... c is a complete cop-out... The Mrs was the ultimate gatekeeper, and she could have/should have avoided the advances of the "counselor." Paul, the "marriage counselor" had an obligation and a responsibility to both the Mrs and Mr. Rather than "counsel," Paul used his position to form an inappropriate emotional bond with a sad, hurt and vulnerable woman looking for answers, and leading her to believe that what is between them is absolute and true love... there are laws against what Paul did... for good and valid reasons... | ||
| hodeuon Advanced Member Username: hodeuon Post Number: 635 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.160.68.34 |
I find it...interesting that you put quotes around cheated as if the husband weren't really cheated on, and then you assert that the wife could have simply walked away (regardless of influence of much Greater Grace teaching that is crafted to control people) and then you blame the pastor. I would agree that we're talking about three not yet perfected humans. But I wholeheartedly disagree with your suggestion that suing GGWO is evidence of bitterness and non-forgiveness. Don't you realize that every time someone had an affair with a GGWO pastor and their spouse divorced them without confronting GGWO in court, that simply enabled GGWO pastors to continue to have affairs with impunity? What the husband did in this case was make a stand and hurt GGWO in one of the few ways that means anything to the organization. I don't think that's bitterness. I think it shows care and concern for other people, to actually try to stop GGWO from wrecking more lives. You're not in GGWO, but you seem to be coming from a fairly similar theology. Hodeuon | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
ho... the husband was absolutely cheated on, and imo "cheating" and/or "adultry" is THE lowest form of dishonesty. The wife could have "walked away" from what or whom? I know the Langs (long story, can't get into it). Suing GGWO was out of bitterness and non-forgiveness and revenge and anger, etc etc etc. I'm not claiming GGWO did not deserve to get sued--they did deserve it. Mr Lang sued and then published to get recognition for the pain and suffering he endured during and after the affair. He was proven correct--he wasn't the "crazy man" after all. Unfortunately, he has managed to cling to his bitterness and non-forgivenss and revenge and anger through the years. My "theology" is the truth. That you believe for one minute that Mr Lang sued out of care and concern for other people has made me vomit a little in my mouth... LOL... wiping tears of laughter from eyes... hahahahahahahaha... that's a good one hodeuon... If the lawsuit resulted in helping to stop GGWO pastors etc from "wrecking more lives," then that is simply the silver lining in the black cloud of Mr Lang's lawsuit... | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 76 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
Miscanthus is quoted here: Mr Lang sued and then published to get recognition for the pain and suffering he endured during and after the affair. He was proven correct--he wasn't the "crazy man" after all. WRONG AGAIN miscanthus ! And riddle me this oh self confessed wise one.... talk about poetic license. You reversed the facts here...for your own benefit maybe ?? Lang published FIRST, then sued TWO YEARS LATER! You are correct though in conceding that he wasn't crazy after all. That was always a Greater Grace gambit for discrediting people. Say they're CRAAAAZY ! I remember hearing that about Doveydenas and later Jack & Lee Leonard, and again Ed & Kathy Lutz. And if you pretend to know Langs motives, Miscanthus, again what would you have done when your world crumbled about you? Oh yeah, you have it all figured out in hindsight dont you? Your obvious resentment for Mr Lang is telling. What is it you hate most about him? That he exposed your cult? Or that he mentions his wife's culpability ? I feel you have an axe to grind that your'e not mentioning here. come clean Miscanthus Answer this in your best yet biased way..WHERE WERE THE HADLEY'S ???? Where were Margarets family still in the cult that left her to look like a tramp while Stevens openly called her such things. Obviously NOT ONE HADLEY stood up and said 'thats my sister your'e talkin' 'bout Pastah!'And there is what...4 Hadletys still in the cult They abandoned her when they should have called Stevens on it! Typical of cult thinkers. Think again about what Hodeuon just wrote: I think it shows care and concern for other people, to actually try to stop GGWO from wrecking more lives. but please tell me WHERE WERE THE HADLEYS???? | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
buggin... could just have easily written "sued and published" or "published and sued." I wasn't writing a timeline. Once again, buggin, I have no connection with GGWO. I had not even heard of GGWO until I met the Langs. There is no benefit for me in any way. Hindsight? There are only 3 possible post-affair scenarios for anyone: 1) Forgive, forget, heal, love and stay married. 2) Forgive and forget, get a divorce and move on. 3) Pretend to forgive and forget, but use the affair as a weapon against the cheating spouse to make the spouses life as miserable as possible for as long as possible (Mr Lang chose door #3). What would I have done if the "world crumbled around me?" Exactly what I did many years ago--get a divorce, buggin. I see no need or reason to stay married to an adulterer. Yuk. I have no axes to grind, buggin. Mr and Mrs and Paul made up an obvious relationship triangle. Mr was simply Mr, Mrs was simply Mrs, but Paul had a resposibility--morally and legally--to do what was right for both the mr and mrs. It is NOT illegal for either the mr or mrs to have an affair or any number of affairs. It is, however, (and if there are any attorneys out there feel free to clarify) illegal to use a position of "power" (in this case marriage counselor) to coerce or manipulate anyone into an affair--either emotional or physical. If you truly feel that the mrs was equally culpable, then you must also feel that no real harm was done by GGWO? Do you feel that the affair was "powered equally" or do you feel that Mrs was manipulated and taken advantage of by Paul and GGWO? You refer to Mrs as being "dittzy" and then go on about Mrs "screwing her friends husband" etc etc. So, buggin, which is it? "Equally powered" affair, or a matter of "power over weak?" If you believe the affair was "equally powered" then there was no reason for the lawsuit, and we can conclude that the relationship between Paul and Mrs was no more than one of the millions of adulterous affairs that occur throughout the world every day, and that GGWO was wrongly sued. Why would the Hadleys remaining with GGWO make Mrs Lang look like a tramp? None of the Hadleys were responsible for Paul's behavior. After many years of silence, Mrs has finally reconnected with her family. What goes on between them as far as "family healing" is their business. Mrs is a very forgiving person. I've never been a part of a cult, so I don't really understand the "cult thinker" mind. Btw, the Langs are separated and will most likely get a divorce. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
hmmm... seems like there is a common thread here for some posters... whatsup, buggin and cordell... "Tricia" was just as culpable/guilty as Paul ("fling," "screwed," "...should have considered them when the events were all taking place..." etc.) Therefore GGWO was rightfully exposed for... what exactly? | ||
| dancer Senior Member Username: dancer Post Number: 1277 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.245.119.68 |
1. Using its Pastors Scott Robinson and John Hadley to protect and establish a relationship that was adulterous, sinful and immoral. 2. Use both the staff and the resources to hide and protect the relationship. 3. Encourage the events that would aid in damage to the Lang marriage. Regardless of what Paul, Mrs. Lang did, there is no denying that GGWO leadership including CHS help make the mess worse. 4. The use of the resources of the church, the use of threat, and the use of near blackmail and worse the most common thing that we see GGWO personal attacks and isolation. Adultery is common in the church, not threatening a person with the resources of the church to protect that relationship. GGWO has constantly used it resources to mark and isolate people from families. Marriages are constantly destroyed this way. Once a spouse turns away from the other having been convinced they need to trust the ministry instead there is little hope that the marriage will survive. What Paul Stevens and Mrs. Lang did was wrong. But it can't hold a candle to what was done by a set of people including family to the langs. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 671 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
I did say that Margaret, aka Tricia, should have considered her children and that she was by no means innocent, but I never implied that the degree of guilt was equal. Obviously a church and a pastor/christian marriage counselor have the greater responsibility because of what they represent. And GG should have been called to account for that reason. As for the Hadleys... well, let's call them the Simpsons for the sake of privacy. I think the point was not that their staying in GG made Tricia look like a tramp, but that GG portrayed her in that way (especially P.Stevens), and yet they remained there and did not speak up to defend her. Particularly John...let's call him Burt...who was in such a position of influence. Perhaps that was the reason he did not speak up, to protect his position. I think that the silence of the Simpsons says more about mind control in GG than the actual affair itself. After all, pre-existing problems in the marriage can contribute to an affair, but family loyalty and blood ties go much deeper. The Simpsons should be ashamed of themselves for staying in GG after that fiasco. (Message edited by whatsup on November 29, 2007) | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
dancer... would points 1, 2, 3, and 4 be worthy of a lawsuit? I've never really asked Mrs why exactly GGWO was sued... It just seems, dancer, that there are many on this board who believe that the affair between Paul and Mrs was equally powered, and that Mrs is a tramp etc etc as a result. This implies, IMO, that there was no wrongdoing by any party/parties (except, of course, those committing the adultry). Covering up or attempting to cover up an affair is pretty common, and since when does any court recognize adultry between two consenting adults as a reason to sue anyone? Just curious... | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.61.38 |
whatsup... I agree about the Hadleys... I don't think I would be very happy if my family left me out in left field to take all the heat. I don't know what their reasoning was for staying with GGWO. Loyalty? Forgiveness? Prayer? Cult thinking? Really... I don't know. What I do know is that Mrs has reconnected with her family, and that there has been some healing. | ||
| johncollins Intermediate Member Username: johncollins Post Number: 284 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.143.75.131 |
miscanthus wrote, would points 1, 2, 3, and 4 be worthy of a lawsuit? I've never really asked Mrs why exactly GGWO was sued... Cordell -- was a lawsuit ever actually filed? Or was the mere threat enough? Stevens always demanded that pastors shouldn't be able to sign the checks. (Good advice). In his case, big friggin deal -- he didn't SIGN the check. Apparently, all he had to do was say, "David, I need $450,000 in hush money" and presto -- the money magically appeared! Meanwhile, at every service someone would "take the offering" (they took it alright!), telling of all the important godly works their hard earned dollars would fund. sheesh! | ||
| dancer Senior Member Username: dancer Post Number: 1278 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.245.119.68 |
Yes there was plenty of reasons to sue. Threats that were directly made against them, the blackmail issues, the use of phyisical intimidation. GGWO should have lost more than $450,000. I get in between a family as a church leader to the point of using security and personal staff to send a husband away? I use our church resources including driving to PA with church staff. The church argued consistently during mediations with me that the money was funded out of the general fund, that the money for the new chapel was funded out of the general fund. As a result there is no frued here. Bad argument morally, true argument within the courts. Pastor Byrnes was made aware of the coverup which create a profound issue in regards with the ongoing issues of his family and the Sutorius family witness his leaving, lutz etc issues. Pandora's box was open beyond what anybody can imagine with Langs. 3 affairs of staff members were exposed in one day via the fights that took place when I was called by The Sun. The walk out at MBCS came almost a couple weeks later. Neil | ||
| arguendo Advanced Member Username: arguendo Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 76.111.92.150 |
This dead horse was beaten here: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2350.html?1194760758 | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2320 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
no lawsuit was ever filed, it was sent under seal, which means that GG had time to settle beforehand, which they did. miscanthus, you, having no links to GG, have no idea what you're dealing with. GG deserved to be exposed as they still deserve to be exposed. in retrospect, it's kinda like Al Capone. He killed a lot of people but got sent up river for income tax evasion and later died of syphillis. Festus, on Gunsmoke, said of one bad guy "if ever anyone needed killin' it was him'"...so it is with the GG higher ups. They needed what they got. | ||
| isabella Advanced Member Username: isabella Post Number: 788 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 96.233.32.104 |
"Alan Lang did not broadcast this on the internet. Louise (used to be Maguire) did." I have to follow-up, because I think that I mis-spoke. I said, that Alan Lang did not broadcast it, and..that Louise (used to be Maguire) did. Alan did broadcast it....he had it on one site. "What's-Up", and others may have read it back then, but they were only a small minority of people. The rest of us: Members/former members/abused families/confused teenagers/fake pastors..(as wig-boy would say, "and on and on"..) did not see it. Yes, Alan Lang did broadcast it, but only to a very small audience. I'm not sure, but I believe the "ministry" settled with Lang and he agreed to take his story off the site. Then, one day, when Louise (then Maguire) was reading the factnet message board, she realized that she had a copy of "The Alan Lang Story!" You know the rest...She posted it on www.factnet.org and www.carlstevens.org, copied it, and now, at least 50 to 60 thousand...maybe more, have read the truth about this, so called, Christian 'ministry'. Love & Prayers, Isabella P.S. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 672 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
please enlighten me...how do you know how many people read the story before it was on Factnet...how do you know it was a "very small audience"? I found it quite by accident, when I was searching out something about GG or people from GG...can't remember exactly what. On Factnet you have people posting and commenting on things, but that does not mean that another site does not have as many readers just because they don't post on a message board. Once something is on the internet, the scope of who it reaches cannot possibly be measured | ||
| dancer Senior Member Username: dancer Post Number: 1282 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.195.244.34 |
Actually I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that few people read the story prior to its posting on Factnet. A lawyer told me about the deal with the Langs and you note that during the Sun story Mike Marr makes reference to this. He says something to the effect of its been pulled from the internet. I don't think Keri's factnet post gets much attention on Factnet now. It gets read daily on multiple blogs. I know on my ggwoinfo blog it is read more than even the Sun article. In fact some 10-1. With wordpress unlike blogger and other sites you can see search schemes that landed people on your blog. The one I see constantly for people finding their way to ggwoinfo is "cult stevens greater grace". I have a lot of trouble just reading the early posts on factnet and not admitting that something was up other than the Langs and those of this same camp. I am one of the first people to post and I know its insiders writing about Paul at one point. It became obvious that Paul would be the scapegoat, but it failed by the time we get to Sandy Cove. CHS was not able to mentally be cognitive. I wonder if Dan Lewis regrets ever hearing the word "prophet" in his life. When I heard Dan say it, I was gone days later. I have had strong appreciation for men in the pulpit, coming them a prphet isn't one of them. CHS and TPS are not prophets. BTW many of the same people who talked about the events of CHS exit and Paul Stevens are the ones who sat in GGWO's parking lot for hours the weeks prior to Schaller become Senior Pastor. There were posts about that here too by her. Do I think the Lang story was on the internet prior to factnet, yes for sure. Did many read it? Who knows but it would be hard for me to imagine that it was huge numbers. At this point its major numbers. The settlement actually created this mess for GGWO and they thought they were doing themselves a favor getting rid of Paul. I don't like what happened to the families involved in 2004 but what if hadn't happened? What if this was never told? Not the Lang story but GGWO's way of being. Some congregations are better, and some are stuck in much of the same. But least the world has some clue. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.127.160 |
It is understandable that those who knew the truth and/or were suspicious about the goings-on within GGWO would want something like the Lang story to be seen/heard. What I find disturbing about the some of the postings on this site is the absolute lack of foregiveness by some. It has also been made clear that, whether she was aware of it at the time of the suit or not, the Mrs was used as a scapegoat by both her husband and other "caring" persons. I know Mrs and she was confused about whether to file the suit or not--changed her mind daily during that time. In the end, she did not want the suit filed (for personal reasons), and she absolutely did not give her permission to have her "story" published by anyone. Also, for any of those who believe the Mrs was awarded tons of $, this is simply not true. Not tons. The Mrs saw some of the $--paid off the home. The rest has been hidden from her by the Mr (via "family" investments). In the end, it has been the Mr who benefitted financially. Sorry to those who would have enjoyed seeing the Mrs suffer for the rest of life for her transgressions. Thank God for His grace. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.127.160 |
It is understandable that those who knew the truth and/or were suspicious about the goings-on within GGWO would want something like the Lang story to be seen/heard. What I find disturbing about the some of the postings on this site is the absolute lack of foregiveness by some. It has also been made clear that, whether she was aware of it at the time of the suit or not, the Mrs was used as a scapegoat by both her husband and other "caring" persons. I know Mrs and she was confused about whether to file the suit or not--changed her mind daily during that time. In the end, she did not want the suit filed (for personal reasons), and she absolutely did not give her permission to have her "story" published by anyone. Also, for any of those who believe the Mrs was awarded tons of $, this is simply not true. Not tons. The Mrs saw some of the $--paid off the home. The rest has been hidden from her by the Mr (via "family" investments). In the end, it has been the Mr who benefitted financially. Sorry to those who would have enjoyed seeing the Mrs suffer for the rest of life for her transgressions. Thank God for His grace. | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 77 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
miscanthus moans: What would I have done if the "world crumbled around me?" Exactly what I did many years ago--get a divorce, buggin. I see no need or reason to stay married to an adulterer. Sounds a little bitter hey miscanthus ? many years later... I'm beginning to see a pattern here...miscanthus still angry at husband who cheated on her... but self righteously wants to condemn Mr. Lang for feeling angry about "the affair" and not " moving on" as if that happens ...the next day...? I heard it on close, reliable undisclosed sources that the Langs really did work through most if not their difficulties in the ensuing years, but that propbably makes you a little envious cause of what your mate stuck you with years ago. ergo your obvious display of venom towards someone elses reconciliation. Miscanthus feels compelled to encourage the Langs to split? Hmmmm ? Sounds like theres some unresolved forgiveness she has not admitted to and so wants to make sure others are as miserable as she is. She of course omits other circumstances like the additional complexity of having a cult promote the Langs divorce. But then she admits never having been in a cult, much less knowing anything about Greater Grace... missing a little bit here aren't ya miscanthus ? What do you pretend to know about MIND CONTROL and its subtle influence on good and willing people??? What do you know about a cults abusive influence of Women??? This is the same Cult (yes Greater Grace) that harbors wife beating pastors and counsels their wives to be more submissive !) You seemed to have overlooked a lot here miscanthus in your veiled hatred for Lang. Be honest! You sidestepped that Hadley question: Where where the Hadleys when Stevens was calling their sister Margaret "a tramp", and yes "a s--t"( among a few choice other terms during rap sessions and intimate group gatherings before and after the trial??? These I personally KNOW happened and wanted to vomit at the way everyone deferred to Stevens when he said these things. The Hadleys were and are still intimidated by the guy (afraid of losing salvation if not their staff jobs perhaps?) You can't give Mr. Lang an ounce of the grace you allude to in your last post, (just like the little tiny pastors at Greater Grace could not) in spite of what he saw happening to his wife and 2 daughters. Get real miscanthus ....its at that point where some guys( or girls) lose it and kill someone. Having known the guy long before you obviously have, You don't know him. I think he showed restraint and tried to do the 'right thang'. But, nowhere in talking with him back then and reading his story later, did I sense 'a Jesus complex' that you try to paint him with. But I do see a liitle bit of Judas in Mrs.Lang who betrayed Barbara and Natalie Stevens while pretending to be close friends,and betrayed Mr Lang and her daughters repeatedly at the encouragement of not just 'Pastor Paul' but his daddy. But Mrs.Lang apparently dealt with that and that makes you angry that the Langs did not do what? ....what you imply you hope they split up !?? BE HONEST!! MISCANTHUS !! You sound like Stevens did when someone left 'his church' You would have made the 'inner circle' at Greater Grace with your zeal for cheering the Langs on to split up. | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2321 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
A. The Langs had a troubled marriage. B. Paulie took advantage of the situation. C. The 'situation' got out of hand and bit him in the arse. D. All the parties, including the Langs, had options for reconciliation, forgiveness, and restoration. Nobody acted on the options. E. Things are not rosy. No sh_t. It figures. A little message from the Sixth of Proverbs: Can a man carry fire next to his chest and his clothes not be burned? Or can one walk on hot coals and his feet not be scorched? So is he who goes in to his neighbor's wife; none who touches her will go unpunished. People do not despise a thief if he stealsto satisfy his appetite when he is hungry, but if he is caught, he will pay sevenfold; he will give all the goods of his house. He who commits adultery lacks sense; he who does it destroys himself. He will get wounds and dishonor,and his disgrace will not be wiped away. For jealousy makes a man (i.e. a husband) furious,and he will not spare when he takes revenge. He will accept no compensation; he will refuse though you multiply gifts (i.e. a payoff). | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
Daaang Fawcett ! that about says it all! | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2322 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
A little yip-yap thrown in for good measure. | ||
| lmao Intermediate Member Username: lmao Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
Was Alan the greedy schemer here? Was he expecting a pay off to keep him silent? How was he to know that gg would not just admit to the whole thing in the open? And so what if the wife was a "ditsy Judas" at the time. Her husband apparently forgave her and if she hopes to get a little privacy back by having names changed, who cares? Gg's big mistake was to think that a story published on the Internet could be removed permanently. For that matter, I think it is silly to blame either of the Langs for not seeing the ongoing consequences of any of their actions here, whether it be the affair itself or the publishing of it. | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2323 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
How many couples, married in the cult--later on figured it was like getting hitched while they were on a nine day binge drunk? | ||
| louise_connolly Advanced Member Username: louise_connolly Post Number: 666 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.184.176.55 |
Yes, and San Antonio rates #3 for the most obese cities in America. | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2324 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
I don't know what that has to do with anything, but... I can lose my weight (and I have). But you can't lose your ugly. | ||
| bob_brinton Senior Member Username: bob_brinton Post Number: 1314 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.66.47 |
My marriage held up (30+ yrs. now), but it was because I held my tongue for a long time. April 3, 1977. Mid nineties the dirt flew and things became obvious even to my wife. She was worth waiting for. Bob | ||
| louise_connolly Advanced Member Username: louise_connolly Post Number: 667 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.184.189.141 |
Bob - thanks for sharing your testimony of a marriage that survived the test of time even if your genuine sweet persona interrupted my next ugly. Yes, thank God our healthcare system now has surgery for the morbidly obese. Oops, off to my Weight Watcher's meeting. (Message edited by louise connolly on December 11, 2007) | ||
| bob_brinton Senior Member Username: bob_brinton Post Number: 1316 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.66.47 |
Ah, I carry some extra weight myself. I can't blame that on 'The Ministry'. Bob | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2326 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.219.212.230 |
Our healthcare system also has plastic surgery and electrolysis for the ugly...but you're probably way beyond it at this stage of the game. After WeightWatchers you'd just be a skinny ugly. | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 673 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Louise, you have mentioned your own problem with alcohol in the past, and it would seem that anyone who has struggled with that addiction would be less judgmental of other addictions...be it food, cigarettes, or whatever. Your childish and mean spirited comments are really getting old | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2327 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 65.219.212.230 |
and she left out the part that San Antonio is also both the ninth largest city in the US as well as the ninth drunkest, it is also one of the happiest. There ya go. San Antonio: fat, drunk, and happy (and home of the World Champion Spurs). Now, maybe she wants to go all racial on us since San Antonio is also the only major US city with a Hispanic majority, many of whom make up the fat, drunk, and happy... | ||
| dancer Senior Member Username: dancer Post Number: 1283 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.245.119.68 |
As much as I don't like some of what he says. Jim has some great points at time. But whatsup point about maturity deserves a contract. After looking at nurses all week, you TBS'ers make life seem almost worth the trip. | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 372 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.123.236 |
I don't believe it!!! http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2007/12/breaking-news.html | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.162.180.167 |
buggin... you have a pair of brain xray vision goggles on or what...? and you somehow feel underscoring is going to lend your mind-reading, wild allegation-throwing thought processes some legitimacy? do you often go around slinging your perception of the facts into the face of reality and truth? LOL... Whether the Langs stay together or split up is between them. I have no influence or power either way. The "power" ultimately belongs to them and to God. Ask cordell--he seems to be very close to and on the side of the Mr. seems you're a bit angry 'bout something? and what would that be, buggin? Why does this situation throw you into such a lather?} | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.162.180.167 |
Cordell: are you suggesting, by quoting Proverbs, that only the man/men have any say in what happens post affair? The Mr did accept compensation... and yet it did nothing to dampen either his fury or his desire for revenge. So where does he go from here? He keeps truckin... | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.78.226 |
Furthermore buggin, 1) You obvioulsy missed the nuanced bit about the confusion some of you were having about the "affair" and exposing GGWO. Right over your head, eh? 2) How have I condemned Mr Lang for being "'angry' about the affair and not "'moving on"? I don't even "condemn" Mr Lang for choosing the lowest path with the most bitterness and ugliness--that's his cross to bear. It's no ones fault but his own that he was to weak to choose one of the other two "higher" paths. 3) re: "sidestepping the Hadley question..." For the love of carbs, buggin, what difference does it make to the Lang marriage if the Hadley's had or had not stayed with GGWO? Does it make you angry that Mrs has reached out to her family, and that there has been healing for all of them? 4) The Lang's--according to my sources--have not worked through anything. What was wrong with their marriage 15 years ago is still wrong today. Nothing improved. Mrs simply learned to give in to all demands simply to keep peace to protect herself. Ever heard of "badgering?" BTW, exactly what or whom am I supposed to be "envious?" I am far better off to have dumped the loser I was married to... 5) "...its at this point where some guys (or girls) lose it and kill someone..." So... you feel he showed restraint by not killing anyone? LOL... OMG... you can't be serious? Showing "restraint" is not flipping someone off in rush hour traffic... what kind of people do you know, buggin, who have to "show restraint" by not killing anyone? Wow... 6) Where have I implied that I hope they "split up?" and how have I been "cheering the Langs on to split up?" 7) "Veiled hatred of Lang?" No... just little respect for him... BTW... as a bystander, why are you still so hostile after all these years? Doesn't make much sense. | ||
| buggin Member Username: buggin Post Number: 79 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.165.61.158 |
It took you 3 weeks to come up with that 'eh Miscanthus !? Hee Haw !!! Its to plain to see you have an axe to grind against Mr. Lang. He must of really stuck something up your buttox! (hee hee!) Or just the fact that many people now no longer look to Idi Amin Dada President/pastor for life aka: Carl Stevens as their guiding light as result of what that bad bad Mr. Lang did. Your own bitterness is displayed here as it relates to your "ex"mate. You sound like the typical angry ex. spewing hatred how many years later and now projecting it onto Lang ?? Your plain to see angst contradicts your point #6 & #7 "6) Where have I implied that I hope they "split up?" and how have I been "cheering the Langs on to split up?" " So then who are you to define what the "high road " is that Mr. Lang should have taken ???? Come on now Miscanthus with your 'benefit of Hindsight' pray tell me how noble you would have acted to save your family??? And what "sin" did he commit to piXX you off while trying to keep his family in tact.? You uh.... didnt exactly answer that the first time I asked you earlier so I thought I would rephrase it here...(tee hee!) I knew the Langs loong b4 you apparently did and so with your "sources" they obviously dont include Mr.Langs view point because then you may have to be a little objective, ...but yet why do you have such a hard on to beat up on the guy? You sound just like one of the loyal greater grace members of today who despise him for saying the king has no clothes on. Do you resent the other individuals here on Factnet who came out and told their stories as result of his exposure ??? With the stated problems you say the Langs have where are grounds for divorce in your self proclaimed expert opinion since it seems you advocate this? And yea, how about them Hadlees ?? Check out the thread in the Archive titled GGWO 2004 Archives subtitled "Step up to the plate Hadlees" Ms. Hadlee or Mrs. Lang (whatever she is) has like ...what 3 bros in 'da church and not ONE stepped up and said something !?!?!? Where I grew up that was justifiable homicide when someone messes with your family. But then they were 'trained' not to by all the indoctrination they absorbed. Really where you been Miscanthus...you use the same cult like slandering of ex-members but say you arent a member, you act like you knew the Langs for years but admit you knew them how long or little???? Get a grip here Miscanthus... I love it when presumptiuous such as you attack ex members...you are so full of .....uh ...(all right I'll be nice) ...contradictions...(hee hee hee ) to be continued...GO PATRIOTS ! (Message edited by buggin on December 19, 2007) | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2331 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
Folks, before this goes on too long, I know the identity of miscanthus. If she continues to attempt to push my buttons, I'll out her right here email content and all. Despite what she has said, I don't have a dog in fight of the Lang's marriage, I have always dealt with both of them equally and don't plan to change now. She has emailed me a couple of times and in her last missive she questioned my friendship and loyalty to them. She feels she is a 'friend' 'just trying to help'--in fact, she has NO earthly idea what being in the cult was like, what Carl or his offspring were like, what the so-called 'doctrine' was like, what toll the years inside took on any of us and our families. Miscanthus, if you take the simple task of reading a little more seriously you will note that the text I quoted has to do with "the man" and how he deals with the "other man" who screws his wife. I'd love to hear the other side of your story--from the 'loser' you were married to, I bet the song would have a completely different tune. | ||
| ariel Intermediate Member Username: ariel Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.77.25.199 |
Is this what you are referring to Buggin ? It comes from the 'GGWO 2004 Archives' thread entitled; Hadley Siblings: Step up to the Plate & Tell the Truth!!!! I bumped it up for easier access. (Message edited by ariel on December 19, 2007) | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.116.5 |
buggin, cordell, and the rest... y'all have a hard time with the concept of "forgiveness" don't ya? you do whatever you want, cordell... I have nothing to hide. yeah yeah yeah it's a man's world alright, and it's all about "the man" dealing with the "other man" and nothing about the woman and what she deals with and/or how she deals with both "the man" and the "other man." | ||
| kpntreal New member Username: kpntreal Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 216.183.185.87 |
SAY WHAT MISCANTUS? y'all have a hard time with the concept of "forgiveness" don't ya? you do whatever you want, cordell... I have nothing to hide. yeah yeah yeah it's a man's world alright, and it's all about "the man" dealing with the "other man" and nothing about the woman and what she deals with and/or how she deals with both "the man" and the "other man." I gotta say sumpin' here to you Miscantus. You are tryin' to polarize people here in some politically correct manner by making this a gender issue. Get real girl. This has nuttin' to do with man vs. woman, woman vs. man. If you wanna go there, then M.Lang has a lot of explainin' to do to the Stevens women who she backstabbed while stealin a husband and papa. She should take ownership for that and fess up. She also spent that ransom money of a settlement which I woulda' done too, but I wouldnt be acting like it was my spouses fault now that the moneys gone as it sounds like she is. I recall the buzz that followed that whole deal. She always had some sneaky and opinionated evaluations about her sisters in the church as I recall. She was like that in her little ole' staff job. An inner circle wanna be. I remember her attitude towards some other women. And you refer to Paul, he has likely gone on with his life, so why suggest she deal with him? I'm sure Barbara would love that! And I bet their Daughter will get a real warm feeling seeing her Daddys ex-fling. And oh right - her mate, let them deal with it ALONE. Who appointed you marital counselor? You say your ex, dumped you? Leave it at that, but you make references to him in the negative, who's not so forgiving here ? Soundz like a root of biterness on your part girlfriend. Face it. Are you eggin' the Langs on to split? Sounds like it. Have you ever been in a cult? Do you understand the added baggage that puts on a marriage? When Miscantus says she has 'nuttin to hide' it reminds me of those proverbs that talk about pleasant words concealing a hateful heart. (Prov.26:23) You definately hidin' sumpin' girlfreind ! | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.104.191 |
hmmm... this is all very interesting... by reading the posts here concerning the Langs it is easy to see how y'all were able to become involved with a cult to begin with. Don't any of you actually read what has been written, or do you just go about your lives making assumptions about other people based on what has NOT been written? Y'all are very guilty of assuming a great number of things about me because of your very talented ability to read minds (buggin and cordell are the champions--although kpntreal has become a close contender). Was training in personal attacks, the (assumed) ability to read minds, and making up stories part of the general cult training y'all recieved, but have not been able to give up? What the h. e. double hocky sticks is wrong with you people? | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.104.191 |
hmmm... this is all very interesting... by reading the posts here concerning the Langs it is easy to see how y'all were able to become involved with a cult to begin with. Don't any of you actually read what has been written, or do you just go about your lives making assumptions about other people based on what has NOT been written? Y'all are very guilty of assuming a great number of things about me because of your very talented ability to read minds (buggin and cordell are the champions--although kpntreal has become a close contender). Was training in personal attacks, the (assumed) ability to read minds, and making up stories part of the general cult training y'all recieved, but have not been able to give up? What the h. e. double hocky sticks is wrong with you people? btw, cordell, I have been having a little trouble with my email. Did you recieve my friendly response to your friendly email to me? | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.104.191 |
btw cordell... it was you who initiated the exchange of emails between us... I asked Margaret, and she believed you to be a good guy. She was mistaken. But that is to be expected, isn't it cordell? Taking into consideration all the posts that have been written here (including yours dear man), she has been so mistaken in the past she's lucky y'all didn't lynch her, or make her walk around with a big red "A" tatooed across her chest. Nice bunch y'all are... | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 373 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.123.236 |
I really believe that God sits in heaven, looks down at us and every now and then has to say "WTF!?" to himself! Look, I'm a realist, it's pushing 2008 and this story is getting old. The only way Alan Lang can correct the issue of the past is by doing THIS, right here... http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2007/12/only-logical-ending-to-this-story.html | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2334 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
Well folks, as you know, I don't often do this BUT I really don't think I have much choice. This chick and her husband have inserted themselves as 'helpers' into the Lang's marriage and have obviously taken sides. Her name is Karen McKay and her husband is Scott. Here is the sum of my communication with her, enjoy her manipulative tactics! (Mrs. McKay has known the Langs for less than a year) So much for me initiating the correspondence: cordell: Margaret says hi Jim... Margaret and Alan are separating, and are most likely going to get a divorce. It's very sad, but it should have happened years ago (based on what Margaret has told me, and from what I have observed going on in the marriage/with Alan). Unfortunately, she is stuck in the home until child custody mediation (wonder if our state judicial system is aware of the torture they allow women to endure just so they can be assured they will not lose their babies?). We are helping her out as much as possible. If you still pray... take care ----- Original Message ----- From: somebonus To: Karen McKay Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: Re: langs and stevens So what's going on with them? I haven't spoken to them in a few months. Were you in GGWO/TBS? Do we know each other? JF Karen McKay <tvbites@verizon.net> wrote: I know the Langs as well. Margaret has told me about you. I will let her know I have sent a msg. Things are not going well in her life (have not been going well for 20 years actually). take care Thu, 16 Aug 2007 Hi No... I was not in GGWO/TBS nor do you know me. My husband and I are friends with Margaret--NOT Alan (he is very strange). Things are not well with them at all--especially not well with Margaret. We are very concerned for her. How well do you know Margaret, and how do you feel about Alan? Thanks, Karen Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:26:52 -0600 (CST) tvbites@verizon.net cordell... I hear you have been in contact with Mr Lang? and you brought up my email to you? Since I can't really remember what I wrote, I hope nothing was brought up that would make Mrs. Lang's life more of a hell on earth than what it's been for the past 9 months (20 years truthfully). The Mrs suggested I email you in the first place... perhaps her trust in you was misplaced? Regards... MRS. McKay, Listen, Sugarpie, apparently you have a dog in this fight. Unlike you, I don't. Over the past five years I have always spoken to both of the Langs in open dialogue. I have nothing to hide from either of them. I don't 'win' if they stay together or if they don't. I doubt very seriously if you have a clue what the last 20 years have been like for that family and I begin to doubt whether you care about anyone but yourself, noting your tone. By all means, share the content of this email with either of the Langs, I certainly will. Have a nice day. JF And, no, I haven't had a response. Feel free to post it here--venom and all. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.124.195 |
Well Jim, looks like youv'e decided to take this to a horribly personal level. Here is what I emailed you: "My "tone?" You are able to detect a "tone" via email? You have very obviously spoken to Al about me to have obtained such a biased opinion. Because I have become his wife's friend, and because I have offered her my support in whatever she decides, he has done nothing but denigrate both me and my family. Evidently becoming Margaret's friend makes us Nazis among other things--and you wonder why I don't particularly care for the man? We tried being friends with Al, but he turned out to be devious and suspicious and really not a whole lot of fun to be around. Befriending his wife, and listening to her woes, and encouraging her and her children to get counseling and to return to God have been our ONLY sins--get it cowpie? So you listen to me, cowpie, apparently you don't realize the only dog I have in this fight is that neither Margaret nor her kids are further verbally abused by your best friend. Like you, cowpie, I have nothing to hide from either of the Langs. What makes you think that I have anything to hide? I don't win if they either stay together or not. What makes you think I do or don't? Are you just making this stuff up as you go? As a man, MR FAUCET, I doubt very seriously if you have any clue about what Margaret has gone through the past 20 years. I will be speaking to Margaret in about 10 minutes... I fully intend to read to her the contents of your kindly email, and to let her know that your kind, quiet-spoken best friend Al seems to have gotten to you. You go ahead and share this email with Al if you choose. And if he uses it to verbally bludgeon his wife and/or kids with it, you can thank yourself. Get a clue cowpie. Regards..." Hope your happy mr faucet... | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.124.195 |
btw cordell aka faucet... I did read your kindly email to margaret... she was appalled, and couldn't understand your venom. Maybe you should explain. Also, you have lost her trust. But you have Al... hope y'all will be happy together... | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.114.215 |
Esteemed posters on this thread: indeed the story is old... but there seems to be a great deal of hostility and hatred directed towards one of the people involved. Seems some people just can't seem to get over stuff and move on. yeah yeah CORDELL... I guess my husband and I are a lot like you, right? You insert yourself into the Lang's life a few years back, we insert ourselves into their lives a year ago, etc... you say potato, I say pototo... so... oh wise one, please explain your definition of the "rules" of friendship to me. For instance: 1) How long do you have to know someone before you care about them? 2) How long do you have to know someone to know they are hurting? 3) How long do you have to know someone before you are allowed to lend a hand? 4) How long do you have to know someone before you realize that great harm has been done to them? Seriously--have you read some of the "Christian" posts in this thread? Where are the Hadleys now? Where are any of Margaret's friends now--including you oh wise one cordell? Or... is it just OK for ex-GGWO cult members to trash Margaret, but not current members? I'm just trying to get the rules straight, that's all. Do you really think I care if the people on here know my name? Or did you post my name hoping that great harm would come to me and/or my family? That's rightly Christian of you, Cordell. If you are representative of the type of "friend" Margaret has been forced to endure over the years, I feel very sorry for her. She told me about your phone conversation with her a few days ago... seems you listened to her words, but you didn't actually hear what she was saying--it's easy to see who's side you've taken, oh great one. LOL. It's pretty much a no-brainer, cordell... as Margaret's friend I am going to take the "side" that is the least harmful to her and her children... don't really care much about Al; it's not as if he has endeared himself to us, is it? After all, cordell, he has you, doesn't he? | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.20.118.207 |
Seriously cordie... I've managed to "push your buttons?" And... how was I able to do that exactly? additionally cordell... my emails to you concerning the Langs--both Al and Margaret--were hardly wicked evil were they? And you did initiate emails, dear boy... look above at one of your first posts... why did you offer your email address to me? Was it some type of trap? Little did I know at the time that you obviously worship at the alter of "What-Al-says-is-truth." I wonder if there just might be two sides to the story, huh cordie boy? How would you feel if I were to print all of these posts for Margaret to read? How do you think she would feel about your "friendship" then ("Paulie and Mrs Lang have their fling" etc). You've really come to her rescue, haven't you big boy? Why don't you ask Al for my phone number and give me a call? I would love to talk to you directly. This is no longer about either Al or Margaret, cordie... maybe I'll just get your number from Margaret... I wonder, would you be man enough to actually talk to me? LOL... hmmmm.... | ||
| whatsup Advanced Member Username: whatsup Post Number: 675 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.128.123.241 |
Now, this thread is a perfect example of why you should never give out personal information on the internet, and air your dirty laundry as they say...no matter how satisfying it may be to vent at times. In the case of Alan Lang, he has no one to blame but the face in the mirror. But now the whole world has access to the news of his divorce and strong hints of the problems leading to it. As if divorce was not painful enough, their private pain is made public once again. Outsiders debate the situation... "he says, she says" blah blah blah. It all should serve as a lesson to keep your private life off the web. Don't you agree, Neil? | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2335 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
Am I the only one who sees the controlling manipulative nature of this woman? Listen, sweetcheeks, my point above is precisely that there are two sides to the issue. I just haven't chosen one to be on, as you have--that is what "I have no dog in the hunt" means. It is now obvious to all and sundry that you harbor some very deep animosity towards one party. You probably have animosity towards any member of the species with testicles. I don't have any animosity toward anyone but you, because you're a buttinski, not a helper. I have never been under any illusion that one side is all truth any more than I'm convinced (as you seem to be) that one side is all to blame. People make choices, there are consequences. The only "No-brainer" here is you, Mrs. McKay. Now a phone call from you would be great fun, especially if I were in some public place like Burger King where I could put you on speakerphone and the LiquidWaves guys could make a spoof video of it all. | ||
| lmao Intermediate Member Username: lmao Post Number: 443 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
I think the point of the Alan Lang story is that it reveals the lengths Carl Stevens was willing to go to protect his little ministry including paying church funds as hush money and allowing a staff pastor caught in adultery to continue marriage and relationship counseling. It also shows his control over the trustees of the church who wrote the check. The Lang family has suffered enough. Must we keep discussing their personal lives on the world wide web? | ||
| ariel Intermediate Member Username: ariel Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.77.25.199 |
Well spoken LMAO ! | ||
| ariel Intermediate Member Username: ariel Post Number: 186 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.77.25.199 |
No Cordell, Agreed. I do not understand her obsession with the Langs. | ||
| cordell Senior Member Username: cordell Post Number: 2337 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 208.117.5.81 |
I guess one of the points that can still be made after you're out of the cult is this: if you have a propensity to get suckered by overbearing, manipulative liars like Carl and Paulie Stevens, if you're not careful--after you're out of their grasp there's always another overbearing, manipulative schemer out there waiting to suck you in to something else that will screw up your life even more. | ||
| miscanthus New member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.68.26 |
cordie baby (aka cowpie): Guess you don't have the kahunas, huh? lol... Wasn't my obsession with the Lang's... was my fasination with the cult and lawsuit and the carlstevens.org site that led me here, and then it was my perverse fasination with the hostility and venom permeating from the souls of you and your friends on this thread. Update: your friend Al's behavior is beyond reason this weekend. We will be contacting our attorney (also a very good client of ours) on Wednesday as well as pertinent social service agencies and law enforcement officials. To protect me and my family from the likes of you and your "friends" I just may not be able to post here anymore. Sad, isn't it? Footnote: funny thing about you posting my email address, cowpie... while you and your ugly, venomous friends have chosen to stick with obsessing about your past, and to continue blame-placing, there are others who have been in contact with me to offer their support for Margaret... so... I guess, thanks? Still... if you ever grow the balls, cordie-boy you know how to reach me... lol... or are you afraid of real women? | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 376 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.123.236 |
am i the only one here that thinks margaret is a friggin' idiot? i mean come on, 20 years? 20 YEARS? if your life sucks for 20 years, and you just NOW decide to do something about it...lets be real here, whats 20 years and a day? things couldn't have been THAT bad, because if they were, we wouldn't have people on here boo-hooin' about her problems for 2o years. fact is this, if a person doesn't want their story told, THEN DON'T BE F-CKIN' AROUND! | ||
| miscanthus Junior Member Username: miscanthus Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.240.68.26 |
shat... you don't know much about women do you, shat...? perhaps you and cordie and buggin etc could get together and write a book... "What We Ex-Cult Guys Knows 'Bout Women..." Chapter 1: "Duh" Chapter 2: "Scratch Butt and Think 'Bout It" Chapter 3: Women are Tricksie" Chapter 4: "Ummmm... Now Where Do I Put This Dang Thang?" LOL... Anyway... here's a song for y'all: "I wish you a Merry Christmas" "I wish you a Merry Christmas" "I wish you a Merry Christmas" and a "F r o n t a l L o b o t o m y" LOL... wiping tears of laughter from eyes... No... seriously guys... I hope your Christmas is good, and your new year opens up a whole new mental health beginning... OMG...LOL.... Merry Christmas to all, my sweetums... (Message edited by miscanthus on December 23, 2007) | ||
| lmao Intermediate Member Username: lmao Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.251.144.6 |
I guess a lot of us are friggin' idiots for staying in tbs/gg for twenty plus years and deciding one day to leave. | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 377 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.123.236 |
Yeah, but after 20 years, if every little problem isn't a lil light bulb going off in your head, what can I do to help? Let be honest, nothing has changed; GG hasn't changed, would you be better off ignorant and happy, or in the know and bitter? Or in the case of Neil, ignorant and bitter! Either way…I’m just messing with you guys! Marry Freakin’ Christmas! http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2007/12/blog-post.html |
