| Author | Message | ||
     arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1798 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.205.23 |
why does the upc church concentrate so much on the water? i had one tell me it wasnt THE BLOOD that saaved it was obedience in being baptised. also why do they claim that they receice the baptisum OF THE HOLY GHOST if there is only JESUS then how can they receive any one elso | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 888 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
Water baptism is the example...Spiritual baptism is the Truth! Christ gave us the examples of Baptism with water, so we should follow this example. The repented theif that was crucified next to Christ was not baptized in Water, but we know that he was baptized with the Holy Spirit, for Jesus taught that that theif overcame in the last moments and would be in heaven with Christ. So, although Water baptism is not needed for entrance to Eternity, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is. Water to example and Spirit the Truth. What is the difference in the UPC and your specific 'sect' Arron? Peace c | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1800 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.205.23 |
mine is not a sect but a church ezekiel. is your a sect? our church does not believe that water baptisum saves a person. the upc does. they teach unless one is baptised in water in THE NAME OF JESUS they are not saved. we do not beleive nor teach this. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 894 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
No offense meant arron....sect as in section.. I should have phrased that better...sorry. Good for your church on that fact Arron | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1823 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.205.23 |
section????? what do you mean??? are you referring to our beliefs? we are a church. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 903 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
no sir...no offence was meant...sect as in section or divison of the pentacostal church... Pentacostal Church must have begun as one group and divided over time into sections or different denomination within denominations. As I stated above, I did not word it correctly, and no offense was meant. Peace c | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.42 |
Pentecostals started at Pentecost in the book of Acts chapter TWO as they waited as instructed by Jesus to do so. And that Empowering has been happening ever since and continues to happen. It is when a person takes one scripture as did some individuals and build a doctrine around one verse of scripture. It is when immature believers abuse gifts that the body of Christ needs for Building up, comfort, edification, and exhortation. Also a like of it has to do with those who DO NOT study the Word of God and follow traditions of man that do not line up with the complete word of God. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 947 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
As I claim that the false gift, this unknown tongue does...traditions of man and not the Word. No example in the Old Test. No...the Corrinthian Church was in need of correcton from the very things that your denomination is in to. | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.38 |
no that is incorrect Ezekiel in the Old testament you don't understand the Holy Spirit that came on people as did the Holy Spirit come on Kings , Prophets, and Priest to do a work for the Lord God almighty, Now the Holy Spirit is in us to empower us all to do the work of winning souls for Christ. Tongues are not as important as you make it to be. Most Pentecostal I know that tongues with out love is no good. You call it false tongues please one more time what is false tongues? | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 958 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
any unintelligable language that one claims is TOOO God or FROMMMMMM God is false. The ramblin gibber gabber that is called the prayer language...I think that that is nothing more than your own delusion. The gibber gabber from so called ministers, is outright disception or demonic possession. God is not the author of confusion. | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 154 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.43 |
LOL well again you don't know your bible a Christian cannot be possessed by the devil we tried so hard to explain that to you; you member? Matthews 12:24-34 anyway have yet to hear any Spirit Filled Believer say gibber, gabber lets see if those are words ok  hold on Gibber = talking gibberish Gabber = (gab) chat-idly To talk at length about trivial matters light conversation about nothing in particular. yep that would be a false Tongue but it is not the tongues I have come to know ezekiel_37 you do need to stay away from that kind of tongue that kind flickers like the one in SS doctrine | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 960 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
I will take the SS teaching from the WORD as traced through the entire bible, over your 'experience' that you now worship. Worship our Father, not an experience. | ||
| escaped Member Username: escaped Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 24.37.143.207 |
maybe not demonic possesion, unless they were "Tares" and not "Wheat" so this is why stick to the doctrinal issues allowing the Word of God do the correcting and rebuking and encouraging. certaintly oppression for sure if they are speaking in tongues of jabbering, and gabbering, but Glossia is a known language not some jibbering of unknown things. look at what paul says and to whom? The corinthians were the "only" church that he had to deal with on this issue and nother church, ephesias, or collosia, or thessalonica..or is that nika...whatever but why just Corinth? because they were a bad church with a lot of divisions; Icor. 11 no wonder paul told them not to take communion. they were in such a state of turmoil. my 2 canadian cents | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 964 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
worth 1.7 cents now in USA pennies getting stronger each day almost, eh? Peace from another Canadian...(T area) In Christ's name c | ||
| escaped Member Username: escaped Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 24.37.143.207 |
cool thanks... eh..LOL | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.41 |
"I will take the SS teaching from the WORD as traced through the entire bible, over your 'experience' that you now worship. Worship our Father, not an experience." that is so funny LOL oh my both of you must read I and II Cor. Paul addressed a lot of things one drinking, eating treating poor people less then a brother or sister because of financial status or NON JEWS. Yes experience amen to that!!! the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord of my Life THAT personal “experience” and the only way the only truth and the only LIFE yes that “experience” of His Holy Spirit in my Life empowered to be a witness of him Yes that “ experience” that leads me to tell others of the saving grace and mercy of the living God who will not turn anyone away who repentance and CALL on the Name of Jesus. And you know what, All of that is spoken in the Word of God, to which I to have experienced. SS LOL that is a joke and has no points. you cannot show traces, lines or threads in the bible to connect SS in the word of God without taking it out of scripture context. It is false, misleading, and takes away from the Lordship of Jesus. | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.41 |
it is getting to the point of foolishness to even adress it anymore so i'm glad for all of you scer's who have helped me understand your false doctrine and what you stand for. Godchild, aron and bear, Munson that thank you. i'm done and will not post on this AM/sc anymore but have taken the points given by ezekiel_37 and other alike and now showing many it's false teachings and denial of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Gen to rev all have Lines and points, similes, mehor, and allegory (not to be confused with allegorizing) that Christ is the center of the Word of God. SS doesn't build up or can be used to show examples of what not to follow, other then an example of what a missleading interreptation of scripture. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 976 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
you're one to talk....you believe a lie! 1Cor14 does not speak of an unknown tongues, but only languages...do some homework. The word 'unknown' is added by the interpretor of the time and not PUT THERE BY GOD. OUR FATHER SENT YOU HIS LOVING WORD TO CORRECT YOU AND YOU IGNORE IT AND SPIT THAT WARNING TO THE WIND. you keep saying we deny the Lordship of Jesus Christ Once again I will correct you. You are wrong and being a false witness, AS YOUR PATTERN SHOWS... WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THE SS DOCTRINE OR NOT, THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO OUTRIGHT LIE ABOUT ME OR MY BELIEFS. YOU ARE GUILTY OF BEING A FALSE WITNESS. Jesus is Lord! howdya like them apples. How is God going to react when you Judge one of His children...especially falsely. HOW MANY TIMES MUST ONE STATE THAT CHRIST IS LORD, BEFORE YOU BELIEVE THEM? 1,000,000? 2,000,000 7,000,000? HOW MANY TIMES. YOU KEEP BEARING THAT FALSE WITNESS AND YOU WILL PAY FOR THAT FALSE WITNESS IF UNREPENTED. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1922 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
zeke you are really one to talk you told csi. that the unknown was added by the tranlaters you said GOD sent HIS WORD to correct them then you say you will correct them. they have done no more than use GODS WORD and didnt take what some man saud about it which you take all these translater and goofy doctrines and say something says omething whichit doesnt. like the serpent sed and eve haveing sex with satan. that is nonsense. i am praying for you for i like you regardless of your goffy beliefs | ||
| ezekiel_37 Advanced Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 986 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
The word 'unknown' is added by the interpretor of the time and not PUT THERE BY GOD. OUR FATHER SENT YOU HIS LOVING WORD TO CORRECT YOU AND YOU IGNORE IT AND SPIT THAT WARNING TO THE WIND. that's my quote. GOD SENT HIS WORD, not my words, but GOD'S. Arron, please read more carefully Brother. I like you too, although you believe things agains Gods Word, like speaking in unknown tongues and taking a preachers words for Gods Words. But I still pray for you arron. I said nothing out of line to cs1 as the appropriate Christian behaviour is NOT TO BE A FALSE WITNESS. | ||
| cs1 Intermediate Member Username: cs1 Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 138.163.0.41 |
yes the word UNknown is add to you because you are unlearned that is Just the fact. and I stand by my statement that SC/ AM do not lift the name of Jesus; but of man the man AM. SS , and other teachings like it are overly spiritualized so to cause one to think of AM as a great leader and the Only one with the end time message. Scer's have attacked the word Born again, the gifts of the spirit because it dosen't fit AM's own doctrine. Yes none of you Scer's have shown as asked before by me How does this Doctrine SS show the LordShip of Jesus Christ and saying that HE ( Jesus) is Lord even the devil will bow and say that LOL so please don't pacify me with that staement when your words your own words speak for yourself. I bear no false wittness LOl just look and one can read SS brings no Glory to God but attention to the tree of Knowledge " man's knowledge NOT of GOd hay look at what WE Know !!!. | ||
| ezekiel_37 Senior Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.43.16.51 |
do you deny that the word "unknown" is added throughout the 1st Corrinthian letter? do you know what italics are used for in the bible? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2306 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
the tongues of the bible in acts are differnt than the ones in corinthians . the one in acts every one heard in his own lanquage. in corinthians it is spiritual lanquage, heavenly lanquage which must be spoken by one in the spirit and interpreted by one in the spirit. this is to anyone who believs as i do. i dont answer some peoples questions for the bible say dont answer a fool according to his folly. | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.21.76.34 |
Eze and Aaron, I haven't been back and spoken here this past month but I see that you both are still going at it about this HS thing. I don't say HS loosely... I'm just trying to trivialize the discussion a bit given the fact that Aaron is still calling someone a fool (btw the Word says not to do this and you did- in so many words you’re calling him a fool on your last post-if he is a fool then keep it for yourself to know- there are pearls of this sort- and then teach if you can). If he isn't a fool then good but how will he know? (Eze I don't think you're a fool. I'm just trying to point something out to Aaron- aren’t you guy’s friends yet! Eze and Aaron, my friends, don't become callused to this type of dialogue you guys use because it'll trickle over into every discussion you have with friends and family. You can loose the opportunity to speak with some very ready and cherished people in your life because of this. Did you know that a Jehovah witness will argue with you every time about their belief? Someone argued it to them in a loud and degrading manner long enough for them to finally buckle to it and except it (same thing as peer pressure). We can do the same thing with our children about how loved they are or not. We can do this in Christianity as well, if we aren't careful. The flesh comes in because you really want someone to get it. But the Spirit says we shouldn't. In the Word we see various occasion when some knowledge was held back and we see parables to others, we see dusting off the feet, but neither one of you have submitted to the other. If you both have submitted to God then your guys' discussion on this may have already been fruitful. I have no idea how long before I started coming here you guys have been discussing this. Do you care to tell me about how long it's been? I'm just curious. You know I have my opinion of who is wrong and who is right about this topic but I would never say either is a fool. I might say a little ignorant or unready or a babe but then again never out loud. Beyond that I'd go out of my way to provide a solution an answer. So, even though it’s not out of my way, let me try to provide one. Brian has provided it in the past but because it's a common thing to have the answer right under your nose and not see it, here it is but you'll have to take the next step by emailing me at: mocha_boy_mb@yahoo.com (there is a space after mocha and after boy) There are two main versions of what Speaking in Tongues are both of which you both discuss have discussed here at each other. There is a third version that should explain it thoroughly and has a large amount of references to the OT. Now I'm not going to send out some dogmatic notion that if you don't take the time to learn more about this that you're both just not interested in the Truth but I will say that if you're truly interested (by the amount of time you guys speak of it) then it wouldn't hurt but benefit each other. Remember that if you're wrong about a certain point along the way that you might have to go back on some things you've stood up for- the pay off is better in the long run though- that is if there is something to exchange. Aaron being a senior member of 2306 means nothing to me if you are wrong. Eze being a senior member of 1002 post mean nothing to me if you right. What means the most to me is clarity over majority opinion. If you don't contact me then I wish you both the best of Gods blessing of Truth and understanding. Be aware that people come here to read only we must write in Spirit. Jay the peacemaker | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 210 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.21.76.34 |
Eze and Aaron, I haven't been back and spoken here this past month but I see that you both are still going at it about this HS thing. I don't say HS loosely... I'm just trying to trivialize the discussion a bit given the fact that Aaron is still calling someone a fool (btw the Word says not to do this and you did- in so many words you’re calling him a fool on your last post-if he is a fool then keep it for yourself to know- there are pearls of this sort- and then teach if you can). If he isn't a fool then good but how will he know? (Eze I don't think you're a fool. I'm just trying to point something out to Aaron- aren’t you guy’s friends yet! Eze and Aaron, my friends, don't become callused to this type of dialogue you guys use because it'll trickle over into every discussion you have with friends and family. You can loose the opportunity to speak with some very ready and cherished people in your life because of this. Did you know that a Jehovah witness will argue with you every time about their belief? Someone argued it to them in a loud and degrading manner long enough for them to finally buckle to it and except it (same thing as peer pressure). We can do the same thing with our children about how loved they are or not. We can do this in Christianity as well, if we aren't careful. The flesh comes in because you really want someone to get it. But the Spirit says we shouldn't. In the Word we see various occasion when some knowledge was held back and we see parables to others, we see dusting off the feet, but neither one of you have submitted to the other. If you both have submitted to God then your guys' discussion on this may have already been fruitful. I have no idea how long before I started coming here you guys have been discussing this. Do you care to tell me about how long it's been? I'm just curious. You know I have my opinion of who is wrong and who is right about this topic but I would never say either is a fool. I might say a little ignorant or unready or a babe but then again never out loud. Beyond that I'd go out of my way to provide a solution an answer. So, even though it’s not out of my way, let me try to provide one. Brian has provided it in the past but because it's a common thing to have the answer right under your nose and not see it, here it is but you'll have to take the next step by emailing me at: mocha_boy_mb@yahoo.com (there is a space after mocha and after boy) There are two main versions of what Speaking in Tongues are. Both of which you've both discuss here at each other. However there is a third version that should explain it thoroughly and has a large amount of references to the OT. Now I'm not going to send out some dogmatic notion that if you don't take the time to learn more about this that you're both just not interested in the Truth but I will say that if you're truly interested (by the amount of time you guys speak of it) then it wouldn't hurt but benefit each other. Remember that if you're wrong about a certain point along the way that you might have to go back on some things you've stood up for- the pay off is better in the long run though- that is if there is something to exchange. Aaron being a senior member of 2306 means nothing to me if you are wrong. Eze being a senior member of 1002 post mean nothing to me if you right. What means the most to me is clarity over majority opinion. If you don't contact me then I wish you both the best of Gods blessing of Truth and understanding. Be aware that people come here to read only, we must write in Spirit. Jay the peacemaker (Message edited by Jayhernandez on June 21, 2006) | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2322 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
o jay ... i was not addressin the one you spoke of in the post. i was referring to ones who believe as i do. i have no dealings with some on this post who continualy harrass and deceive people with a dangerous false gospel. i do not call people fools either except the ones whom GOD says dont answer a fool according to his folly lest you be like him. i sure do not want to be mistaken for some one of that nature. i know what i beleive, i know for a certianity that i do have THE HOLY GHOST i do know for certianity that tongues are real. i do not mind discussing beleifs but i do mind being called an unsaved person just because i dont believe like some one else does. i can live with someone saying they are saved who even lives or believes different from whta i do but not when they say that i am not saved. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 2323 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.37.10 |
also jay.. i do not send my email address to others nor do i want theirs. if you do not care to write to me just dont put my name on the posts or say this is for everyone EXCEPT arron. and i will know you dont want to talk. i know, as you do, what i believe and that is sufficent for me | ||
| jayhernandez Intermediate Member Username: jayhernandez Post Number: 215 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.21.76.34 |
aaron, No don't get me wrong bud- I have no problem writting you- it's just that what I want to send you is very long-not too too long but long enough. I could post it here- it's really up to you-if you're interested. It's sufficent for me to know what I have, and yet I continue to learn and it'll be- glory to God- sufficent again today. Let me put it this way- I can't muster up any amount of fine argument to take any experience away from you that you've had-it is not up to me to try to trivialize it. If what experienced is that dear to hold on too, then by all means hold on to it...I'm not asking for you to deny you've ever had it. It's likely that you could see what I could send you (if you'd like) and respond with nothing more then "interesting" or "oh yea get out". I only ask to make it available to you cause you speak so much about it. (In my opinion it's as if you aren't satisfied with what others believe concerning this or you'd let it rest.) Believe what you want is my motto but if someone is brow beating over someone and it looks like abuse then I think its only responsible we call them on it. So if some is brow beating you then maybe this would serve you well to check it out. Look brother it isn't off base to speak as you do concerning Christian understandings- this is just another one that will either enhance it or complete it. Even if you don't agree you'll be more equiped to fight off this position because you are already informed. So again if you want I can post it here-let me know. Jay |
