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hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 186
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 3:03 pm: | 
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....Having been the focal point of a number of personal attacks
by a number of different people here, I would only like to state that
I am a plain man, seeking to live out a Christian life as is presented by
the Bible. I am not perfect, as neither are any.
The point of contention that all here seem to have with FA, Hobart Freeman,
and 'the faith message', is one of failure to receive 'divine healing', or
other promises, such as financial prosperity.
I have but two questions to ask of all of you....
1.) Does what we heard regarding
the theology of 'divine healing' and other things like 'prosperity',
originate from the minds of men like Hobart, or is it Divine?
2.) What do the following verses from the Bible mean?
A.) And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues,
and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner
of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
~ Matt. 4:23
B.)Jesus saith unto him, ........Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
~ John 14:9-14
C.) Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat,
and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart,
because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
And he said unto them,
Go ye into all the world,
and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe;
In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents;
and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
~ Mark 16: 14-18
D.) .....And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God.
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea;
and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things
which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you,
What things soever ye desire, when ye pray,
believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
~ Mark 11:24
Simple answers to a couple of simple questions will suffice.
Thank~you. |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.106.229.218
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 3:42 pm: |
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Hombre, you ask fair and honest questions. They deserve a sincere reply. Like you, I am just an imperfect human being. I certainly don't know all the answers. "If I did, would I be wasting time on FACTNet?" Anywho, I'll give it a go.
Faith healing is not my major problem with Dr. Freeman. In fact, I believe God heals. However, I do not believe God asks me to lay in agony and do nothing. God does not require abstention from medical treatment. Whenever treatment is taboo or even discouraged, death always follows (mostly innocent children).
My major problem is whenever an individual is held in such reverence and awe that they become the definitive authority. Their single imperfect perspective becomes absolute law. It is then abuses occur. People can and do follow them unto death. Everyone else is wrong. Further learning ceases. Everything is judged against the leader's precious words. All other interpretations are dismissed, discounted and avoided. People are afraid to even consider alternatives. To do so, means they have fallen away (apostates). Friends, family and others in general become secondary at best. All effort goes into maintaining 'faith' in their leader and his doctrine.
FA stressed only what Freeman found important. Followers were well school on Bible verses pertinent to Freeman theology. However, they are ignorant of entire passages for which Freeman had little use. I have witnessed FA relatives eyes glaze over when Bible discussion is not about divine healing, end-time prophesy or Freeman. I've literally been told, "It's not about Jesus and love!" In fact, Jesus can only be discussed with them in relation to Dr. Hobart Freeman. |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.106.229.218
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 3:43 pm: |
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With all that said, I’ll try to answer your questions:
1. All things originate from God, but men sure screw everything up!
2. a. Matthew 4:23
It means just what it says. It was foretold Christ would perform miracles. It set Him apart from any other would be Christ, both past and present day.
b. John 14:9-14
It means believers shall do greater works than Christ did when He was among us. And, He will do what we ask in His name.
Why do so many people define ‘greater works’ as only supernatural miracles? What’s the fascination with the supernatural? Can’t greater works be thought of as saving souls and preaching the gospel throughout the world? A single Billy Graham crusade can reach out to millions of people throughout the world simultaneously. Jesus didn’t do that.
c.) Mark 16:14-18
I’m glad you brought this one up. Have you preached the gospel to every living creature? Do you preach to birds and fish? Have you saved a squirrel? Do you handle rattle snakes? Do you shake ‘em in front of your face, daring them to strike? Do you drink poison? Some misguided Christians do! They handle snakes and drink small quantities of arsenic. Every once in a while, one of them dies. Ya’ wanna’ bet if they drink something stronger, like a gallon of anti-freeze, they’ll all die?
There is legitimate debate as to whether Mark 16 is the original ending to Mark. Many early manuscripts don’t include it. No where else in the Bible is handling snakes and drinking poison mentioned. Thus, Mark 16 is not a good basis for developing a doctrine.
d. Mark 11:24
My dad taught me this verse revealed no one has very much faith. In more than 2,000 years, no one has cast a mountain into the sea. And, ya’ know what? I’ll bet I won’t be the first! How ‘bout you?
Maybe someday someone will do it. Maybe in the Lord’s millennium people will have more faith. I don’t know. I’m not going to worry about it. It in no way prevents me from doing good for the good Lord. My stumbling block is ME!
I’m not going to risk my life or the life of my child by testing my faith to call down a supernatural miracle. I’ll pray all the way to the hospital, thank you very much. It doesn’t go against my faith one iota. Hey, if the great Hobart couldn’t make his theology work, what do ya’ expect from lowly little me. |
odysseus
New member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.222.33.87
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 8:38 pm: |
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I disagree with your premise that you have been the focal point of personal attacks. You’re getting self-pitying, then again that’s like you to get maudlin in order to build your straw man argument to gain sympathy. What’s next violin music?
Answers to your two questions:
#1 Hobart
#2 is a four (4) part question that you’re asking interpretation for. This is side-splitting, are you back on the bottle again or just ticked off at someone? That’s like me asking you where in scripture the ‘Trinity’ is mentioned verbatim.
Go get a box of snakes and dance with them if you’re so confidant at what Freeman taught. That’s you’re problem, you can’t tolerate that some folks around here think you’re screwed up?
You don’t like that do you? You just can’t seem to tolerate that you’re not revered here as a spiritual sage as you see yourself. Life goes on and so do we. You need to move on too. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 116
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.41.150.70
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 6:22 pm: |
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I agree. Before Hombre seem to be all giddy when quoting scriptures to me and disqualifying me. Seems now that others have come here to disagree with brother Hombre he starts to feel the heat and wants to be accepted as an ordinary guy. There is nothing salvalgable about what Freeman taught. What he taught was an embarassment. Its baffling to me how some people can still justify his teachings. |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 131.103.138.23
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:00 pm: |
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Hombre, I tried my best to answer your questions. Now, it’s my turn. I’d like to ask you a question.
If it were possible, what would you say to the FA children that suffered and died? |
odysseus
New member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.222.33.87
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:11 pm: |
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sametoya
It was either the parent’s lack of faith or unconfessed sin. Possibly something else but I can guarantee one thing.
He would answer in the same and cold callous fashion that he responded to me when I mentioned the events leading up to my friends passing over a month ago. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 190
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:54 pm: |
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To all:
I have asked for responses to biblical text.
That would require that your opinions on the biblical text be based
either by refutation/clarification/justification, etc., from other biblical text,
or from your own minds, or philosophies etc., that you have gleaned
somewhere during your life.
In all cases that I have read thus far, I do not yet see a scriptural
response, that supports your conclusions. That is your prerogative;
but it also makes my point.
The problem that all of you have, is essentially with what the Bible declares,
regardless of who quotes it, be it me or Hobart. There are multitudes of other verses
that I could continue to quote that support God's will for His believers to prosper
and be in health, that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
...but what purpose would that serve if one chooses not to believe them?
How does one know that John 3:16 is any good either?
My personal belief is that all of you are too scared to call God a liar,
because you all actually believe He exists, and rather than grapple
with the problematic nature of what appears to be a lack of the fulfillment
of Gods' promises in yours and others lives, it becomes much easier to hide behind
a variety of excuses ranging from blaming someone else, to creating inventive
interpretations that deny and obfuscate the simplicity of what is clearly written.
I have asked this before, months ago, and I repeat it now:
Is the scripture divine, or is it man-made?
If it is man made, and this is all just nothing more than a collection of fables,
then Christianity is a hoax of the worst sort.
If it is true, then why have some died, etc., etc., etc.
I believe that the Bible is Divinely inspired.
Every jot and tittle.
For me, it is a worthy quest to understand not just why some things happened,
but also why some things don't. I am not interested in condemning anyone
for their brand of faith, or lack of it. The things that you all have experienced
and the conclusions that you have drawn from them are understandable.
....but that still doesn't change what is written, for you or for me.
I seek answers from above, rather than cast blame horizontally.
I also seek answers inwardly...because when all is said and done,
this is not about Hobart or you, it is about me, and where I stand before God. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 191
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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Therefore, with respect to the question of sametoya, bless you my friend, sametome;
I would say the same thing that I would say to all of the babies who have been aborted
by their selfish parents, the same thing that I would say to all of the selfish pioneers
who greedily sought gold, but whose wives, husbands, chidren etc., perished along
the Oregon trail on their way to California, the same thing that I would say to those
well-meaning parents whose children have died of Luekemia in hospitals,
the same thing I would say to every living soul who has ever lived and died on this earth:
I cannot do anything about the Divine providence of God in my own life, let alone yours.
I have suffered things that I also perceive to be unjust, as did Christ.
I do not blame God, I do not blame others.
I simply do not understand it all, and to the end that I may know the truth, I apply myself.
There is nothing else I can do.
I am also not a judge, neither do I desire to be one.
My suggestion to those who do not want to throw out Christianity, yet who do not
have answers to perplexing, vexing issues, is to prayerfully seek out the answers
for yourselves from God. Blaming others, and rewriting the Word of God with your
own philosophical overlays, will not placate the need in your hearts that can only
be filled through the pouring out of Gods' love.
WHY do the righteous suffer?
THAT is Gods' prerogative, and one we may never know. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 117
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.47.92.238
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:25 pm: |
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Well yes there is some comparison between the childrens deaths at FA and aborted children that our Hombre likes to referance in his defense of all things FA. Both didnt have a choice or say in the matter. Typical Freemanite twist. Of course Freeman didnt come out and directly say dont take your kid to the doctor or kill your kid. This kind of thing rarely unfold like that. He did the same thing that our faithful brother Hombre is doing. He quoted scripture and worldly examples to back up his belief in divine healing. I say beware of the Hombres and Marks and other dieharders out there. They are the devil in sheeps clothing all so willing to take you down that bewildering road that Freeman paved for them. |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 204.42.24.8
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:34 pm: |
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Hombre, you never asked for a Biblical response to your questions. You asked, ‘what do the following verses mean’. You said you wanted ‘simple answers to a couple of simple questions’. Sorry I didn’t live up to your expectations.
The truth is, I could trade Bible verses with you. You’re certainly not out of my league. But, it wouldn’t do any good. You see it all through Freeman colored glasses. You already have it all figured out, or so you think.
As far as your answer to my question, you lived up to my expectations to a tee (no regret, no compassion and no mercy). Maybe it’s indicative of the condition of your heart (Luke 10:25-37). Hopefully, it’s not the condition of your soul (Matthew 25:41-45). |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 204.42.24.8
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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Healed, no worries mate. I know all too well the ‘Freemanites’. ‘Freemanite’, I like that one!
Odysseus, you called it! You even posted first, and Hombre still showed that same old callous Freeman veneer.
If Hobart’s theology were true, he would have come down from his lofty perch and healed the ailing FA children. Instead, he claimed it was the parents’ responsibility to call down the miraculous feats.
Jesus never said, “I can’t heal you. Your parents are responsible for that.” Freeman’s doctrine was easy to ‘talk the talk’ but impossible to ‘walk the walk’. Poor old Hobart sure found that out.
Even the self-proclaimed Overcomers know it’s true! They’ve become the worst of hypocrites in order to survive. They profess allegiance to Freeman, but go to doctors. “Where’s da’ faith?” After all this time, they still can’t call down the guaranteed miracles on demand. That seals FA’s fate as just another failed cult, and Hobart as a cult leader who caused more than a hundred deaths by forbidding medical treatment. FA and Freeman will pass away into oblivion. Even now, there are only a handful who have ever heard of the infamous Dr. Freeman.
Overcomers wouldn’t know real faith if it bit ‘em on the butt. Someone like Joni Eareckson and Dave Dravecky have more faith than Freeman and all his wanna be’s combined. But, they only see two people with handicaps. “Why, if they had faith, they’d be healed!”
It’s not about how to make God work for you. It’s about how you work for God. |
odysseus
New member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.222.33.87
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:33 pm: |
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sametoya,
Amen and amen. I couldn’t agree with you more.
As for you Hombre, please try to move on and establish a meaningful existence in your life. You might possibly try to live a life that has a beneficial effect on people for the good of their souls. It seems your life thus far is only here to strangle peoples faith based on your little warped beliefs. Move on please, you’ve done enough damage.
No one here is buying what your selling |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 204.42.17.24
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:23 am: |
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Healed, I’m sorry, but I’m out of here. I guess I’m just not that used to deception. I’m gettin’ old and a little slow on the up take. It appears you’re one of the few legitimate posters out here. Beware of IP address 12.222.33.87. He’s crazy. Hopefully, the Anderson cops have him locked up, and he posts from jail. You can do some ‘finds’ on several of the threads, if you’re so inclined. He’s had various names. Sometimes he’s a Freeman supporter, posting over with Mark, Hombre and crew. Sometimes he’s a Freeman antagonist. I guess he’s always a lunatic.
By the way 12.222.33.87, I never lied to ya’. My Ruger P-90 with 230 grain hydra-shoks are waitin’. The only reason I’ll need the police is to haul your ventilated carcass off my property. I’m lookin’ forward to meetin’ ya, real soon! |
odysseus
New member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.222.33.87
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:50 am: |
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I’ve never lied to you either sametoya, I don’t know why you’re upset.
I've never supported Freeman. I've said in the past that some of his knowledge of scripture was very insightful, but I always added that he was deeply flawed as well.
And yes I've posted over at Overcomers online. You can contact Mouler to check why I left. I voluntarily left because of Hombre, just ask Moulder to see if it’s true. I had (have) enough respect for Moulder that I didn’t want to see his website degenerate into what FACNET has become.
But I have got along with Duncan, Mark and a few others. It’s Hombre’s attitude I can’t stand. |
odysseus
New member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 12.222.33.87
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:01 am: |
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When things degenerate to the point of receiving threats of getting shot, well I’m out of here too. |
sametoya
New member
Username: sametoya
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 204.42.17.173
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 9:35 pm: |
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Sorry to post again, I just want to make sure there is no mistaking my issue with Israel (IP: 12.222.33.87).
You were the one that initiated threats of physical violence. You were the one that said people like me make you want to beat them over and over.
I could care less if people think I’m stupid or wrong. People can call me names and argue all they want. However, I take any and all threats very serious, deadly serious! I just want you to know I am, in fact, a small arms marksman and well armed. I can and have defended my family and myself.
You’re safe to smoke your crack and listen to your violent punk rock ‘Israel’s Son’, as long as you stay away from me. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 118
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.230.252.181
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 7:55 pm: |
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I feel one of the reasons that this forum was created was to provide a place for people who were affected by the teachings of FA to vent their frustrations and reach some sort of closure.This would include folks exposed voluntary or involuntary It has been beneficial in this way for me as I now know I am not alone. I hate to see a good intentioned purpose degenirate into something it was not intended for. There are many people who have had parallal experiences, though not from FA. You cannot blame your present day behavior on FA. You can blame feelings or baggage on FA, but you can always improve yourself. I feel its a choice. The path to low self esteem is an easy one to take, with many people there always begging for your company. The high road, (i.e. success, education, activities that provide fullfilment, travel, etc.) is one that requires effort. Ive dabbled on both sides of the fence and I know for a fact that the low road will set you up for failure everytime. It is true you cant run from your past, but you can replace negative feelings with healthy ones by chosing a positive direction. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 152
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 6:27 am: |
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Healed,
I think that was one of your best posts. You made a lot of sense, and I hope and pray that you are able to find the peace and closure of which you are searching.
Duncan |
lou
New member
Username: lou
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.163.106.92
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 7:53 am: |
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 Blessed is the man unto whom THE LORD JESUS imputeth not iniquity. The once born man cannot understand the things of THE SPIRIT OF GOD.We that are born again, should remember how evil we were, before CHRIST came to us and washed us with HIS BLOOD! proverb 28:5 Evil men understand not Judgment (Judgment of THE LORD JESUS)/ psalm 9:16 THE LORD is known by the Judgment which HE Executeth: the world is snared in the WORK of his own hands. Doth any christians truly remember how we once snared our own selves? We have the mirror, can we begin to face it in our direction. Many will hate us for our faith in THE LIVING GOD, BUT WILL WE SUBMIT TO him JESUS CHRIST who laid down HIS Life for us all.Ye cannot be talked into THE FAITH, FOR EVERY GOOD GIFT AND PERFECT GIFT COMES DOWN FROM OUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN,and HIS SON controls all things. All the anger and all the bitterness is expected from the world,but why do so many who received HIS GRACE Fail HIS GRACE? Remember ye born again christians: GOD can save any worldly ••••••• at any time, but what will HE do with us if we obey not after HE forgave us ALL. AND ALL MEANS ALL, SO WHO KEEPS YOU CHRISTIAN FROM GROWING IN THE FAITH? Yourself! No one ,but yourself! Not some minister, pastor,or any other person, but you yourself! |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 119
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.46.159.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 7:15 pm: |
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Duncan,
The way for closure and peace for me is to speak out against all things FA. My message to Israels son was that violence and the other traps that are offered to us who have been lost will only add to the confusion you suffer. I feel any situation can be reversed, but it requires great effort. I did blame FA for a long time for this wasteful effort, and when I see a relative of mine I still do. The hurdles that were set up by this cult have caused many of us suffering. However, there is no magical road waiting for you once you depart FA. What would of been beneficial is a site like this back when I was younger. The soladarity of members who had common ground and would be commited to speaking out against FA would of done wonders I belive. Growing up, I always thought the world would accept me with open arms and pity me for what I had been through. The reality was that I was naive of the workings of the world and I found people from all walks of life with similiar or worse experiences who had to make it in the world as well. True, it would of helped tremendously in my transition to the "world" if the beliefs of FA wouldnt of got in the way of my formative years, but I dont feel that this can be used as an excuse not to assimulate or succeed in the world. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 193
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 5:50 pm: |
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Jesus' words, or Hobarts?
Love not the world , neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh,
and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:
but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
~ 1 John 2 : 15 - 17
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters,
yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
~ Luke 14 : 26 |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 120
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.47.82.221
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 7:25 pm: |
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Well here comes the man with the twist, always there to take something and make a disastor out of it. None other than, Brother Hombre with dedicated doofus Mark soon to follow. Quoting his scripture to back up his twisted beliefs. Love not the world. Im guessing he read my post about how I was eager to join the world I had been secluded from as a young person, only to arrive in it not prepared. So he takes that and twist it around to mean to say "see, I told you. Your lust for worldliness got you nowhere. Now lets get back into the "word" (Freemans twist/version of course) and seclude ourselves from the world instead of confronting it." well not his exact words, but I know whats going on in any Freemanites head. The wolf in sheeps clothing. you can never look to these people for any kind of closure/help as they are still wrapped up in it. But I find Bro Hombre interesting as he seems to be full of double standards. He sayeth unto me love not the world nor the things in it, but then I read on another post where he has embraced all things wordly condemed by FA. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 194
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 7:25 am: |
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I take it that you do not like being reminded of what the Word says.
...as to me 'embracing' the world....uh....I don't think so..
Watching news or educational programs on the History, Travel or Discovery channel hardly qualifies as 'embracing the world'.
Wearing my choice of clothing, which may or may not include Nikes, or leather bomber jackets, is also my free choice, and as long as I am not parading around town indecently, there is nothing wrong with that.
How YOU interpret WHAT is worldly and what is NOT, has to be based upon commonsense, decency and the leading of the Spirit, not some legislative rulebook...although some things are blatantly obvious.
As I have said before...several times, I might add, .. I have come to terms in my own life with the difference between religious legalism,
and sound Biblical doctrine, which I believe, is what you and others here are struggling with.
Have I condemned you for going to a doctor?
Have I condemned you for anything other than the refusal to face the fact that there are certain things written in 'The Bible' that you don't like?
That, my friend is the weighty question.
HOW does one live with some of the difficult things that are written in that book?
IMO...it is not by denying their existence, or by dismissing them as something that only Hobart came up with, or by manipulating, confusing, complicating and obfuscating their simplicity like the denominational system does.
...the solution lies in confronting and wrestling with these issues, one at a time, in our own lives, as they apply to each of us, by study of the Word of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit.
..anything less than that is self-deception, and/or avoidance therapy. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 121
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.34.158.174
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 5:04 am: |
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How YOU interpret WHAT is worldly and what is NOT, has to be based upon commonsense, decency and the leading of the Spirit, not some legislative rulebook...although some things are blatantly obvious
Well thats what any person in their right mind would tell you but this is not what the leadership at FA taught. Well actually they did, they put out a feel good approach like you said but later had a way of making people feel guilty for wearing those Nikes or those glasses. Im sure when Hobart or others were confronted by authorities or media they always would say, "I never said not to go to the doctor." They just had a way of making their followers feeling guilty for doing so. I can remeber a relative hanging on every word on those tapes and rewinding it. Maybe Hobart hinted that Rubiks cubes (for example, I dont remeber if they really were deemed satanic but probally were) were satanic. Out they go. This is mind control. Just as the dieharder Freemanites will not compromise, neither will I. There is no supporting it or meeting somebody half way on any issue that FA taught.} A man controlled and destroyed peoples lives and this is wrong. |
1faithassemblykid
New member
Username: 1faithassemblykid
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.33.253.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 4:33 am: |
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My dad smashed my Rubiks cube and cast demons out of the smashed pieces.
In retrospect, it's pretty funny. Perhaps would make a good movie scene. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 125
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.165.154.234
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 4:57 am: |
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My brother had one, I think it got destroyed as well. I dont know why that popped in my head, interesting you shared that experience. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 137
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.22.231.102
| | Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 9:50 am: |
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FYI...the Rubik's cube used to be named "Magic Cube". In case you don't know, magic is associated with the occult.
Well, as usual, Brother Freeman was right again.
And by the way, what tape did Brother Freeman mention that? I would like to hear it for myself. Or is this another means to besmirtch an anointed man of God.
Hey healed, it looks like the "doofus" is back again. All we need is fivefoldsinner to come back and we can have some more life back in this boring forum. I guess he is off condemning sinners somewhere. Oh well. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 126
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 222.151.11.3
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 4:07 am: |
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Greetings doofus. Your words not mine. A dieharder like you is sometimes a rare thing. Seems others have taken the easy road. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 155
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:22 pm: |
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I had a Rubik's back then. Fortunately, my parents didn't go off the deep end. As I remember it, Dr. Freeman never mentioned anything about the Rubik's cube. It was probably all the immature Christians who were looking for a demon in everything. (Remember Devil's food cake? I love chocolate and enjoy devil's food cake to this day.) A rubik's cube is nothing more than a puzzle. If you throw it out, make sure to throw out the jigsaw puzzle and your crossword puzzle, too!
Duncan |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 138
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.22.231.102
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:07 pm: |
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No Healed,
You are the one that called me a doofus. They are not my words.
As far as being a die harder, call me what you like. But when a person finds a nugget of gold, he isn't going to give it up or let an enemy take it away.
Duncan, I can't remember if Bro. Freeman mentioned anything about the cuke either. You could be right about how people will find a demon in every bush, as the saying goes. I was thinking that that could have been edited off a tape somewhere. But it doesn't really matter.
Anyway...good to see you again, brother.
Mark |
william
New member
Username: william
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 72.146.30.232
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 8:14 am: |
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If I remember correctly brother Freeman mentioned the Rubik cube only in the context of solving it rather quickly. However, toward the end, someone (maybe Bruce?) brought up the subject with him and suggested that the trial he was experiencing could be possibly related to the cube. HEF, always gracious, accepted the possibility and dealt with the issue appropriately. The account was reported by one of the FA ministers. I don't remember HEF ever mentioning the incident.
william |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 156
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 9:13 am: |
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Interesting post, William. I had not heard that story, but it sounds like something that would have happened.
When I hear stories like that, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I just can't believe that people can take things to such extremes.
All the years that I have been wearing glasses to help me see, I thought it was just something I inherited from my parents. Now I'm starting to wonder if it was due to those "deviled eggs" I have been eating over the same period of time!
Duncan |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 195
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 9:13 am: |
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Hey William.....
...upon first glance.....I didn't put the puzzle together
with the initials HEF....I thought....what does Hugh Hefner
have to do with Faith Assembly and the Rubiks' Cube?
Well, anyway, obviously I was never any good with Rubiks'
cube, however, I do remember some fanatics who functioned
through peer pressure, becoming quite alarmed
at the possibility of the cube having occult origins,
which was obviously false, and was no more harmful than
a crossword puzzle ( thank you, Duncan ).
FA had not only some genuine believers, but also some
who followed other people, instead of the Shepard.
Reminds me much of some religious groups who seem to glory
in removing every vestige of civilization in their attempt to acheive
a faux holiness through asceticism.....the extreme practice of
self-denial....as opposed to the denial of self, which Biblically
based principle many FA'ers confused to be the same.
Think it through with me:
Self denial would be denying the mortal body something needful
for it's survival or sustenance...in the search for the Divine.
One can find this doctrine within Roman Catholicism, Hinduism,
Islam, and even a touch of it within Christianity.
Some examples might be:
Whipping oneself with chains until bloodied up ( Islam )
Vows of Poverty ( Roman Catholicism )
Fasting ( Hinduism, Christianity )
The Denial of Self, however, is an entirely different thing,
which involves the death of the 'self-life'...i.e. that which
we all hate to see go...our selfish desires....or perhaps
we could define it as the 'Me First' mentality...or the
recently popularized phrase: 'It's all about me'.
We might be able to sum up the principle within Jesus'
'Golden Rule':
'Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you'.
That might involve standing in the subway in preference to
someone who needs the seat more than you, though you were
there first, and have a right to it.
No point in enumerating examples ad infinitum, but rather to simply
say, that there is a huge difference between the two, of which Jesus
was our example.
Asceticism, while it can be a component of Christianity, is not
the main thrust of its' message, and looking back, I definitely
see vestiges of it throughout, that were popularized through
peer pressure and fear of the occult or unknown.
I would have to throw in at this point along with Rubiks' cube,
the rest of the items that were basically harmless, which some
eschewed for the sake of their 'purity': Nike shoes, bomber jackets,
pant suits for ladies, etc...... along with that I would also throw in
the entire unwritten dress code as being an ascetic practice of sorts,
similar to the Amish delusion.
I think that, however, there is a difference between avoiding worldliness,
and practicing certain forms of asceticism which have no real merit. |
johiyom
New member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:36 am: |
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"Self denial would be denying the mortal body something needful
for it's survival or sustenance...in the search for the Divine."
Like denying your kids or yourself medical treatment in your search to prove you had faith for divine healing? |
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