| Author |
Message |
    
hater101
New member
Username: hater101
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.112.2.148
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 10:24 pm: | 
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missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 246
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.33.148
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 3:04 pm: |
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People do not stay blind forever...glad scales have fallen... |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 403
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.57.36
| | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
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where are you absolute real truth? |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 364
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:32 am: |
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Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:44 pm
Post # 348 by Missionary Lady
“If it is horrible to think about abortion think about HH telling me to kill my baby...
When I refer to baby I refer to thousands of once devil worshippers that now serve the Lord...why kill them??????????????????? they are full grown...
Just because they wanted the work? PH you do not understand anything that happened between them and us...”
----------------------------
Janice, I'm still waiting..........
waiting................
waiting...............
waiting............
waiting...............
How should I interpret this? |
truth_hunter
Intermediate Member
Username: truth_hunter
Post Number: 252
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.55.230.165
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:38 am: |
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Like everyone else did. |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 409
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.142.219
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:51 am: |
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I told you on the other thread PH....don't be so simple... |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 368
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:42 am: |
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I’ll resume when the theater of intellect is elevated |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 412
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.142.53
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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sorry I only went to 12th grade and that was 40 years ago...I do not know all those big words...
Just be assured in my unlearned way I do happen to know wrong from right...and I do know when bad outweighs the good. |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 840
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 836
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:04 pm:
-------------------------------------------------
Do you defend the right of religious groups to CAUSE injury?
************************************************
Pureheart,
I'm still waiting............
waiting...................
waiting....................
waiting....................
waiting.....................
Do you? |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 371
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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No, I do not. |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 373
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
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Common, I have a short note on my thoughts about shunning I will share with you a little later today. O.K.? |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 374
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:47 am: |
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Shunning is the act of deliberately avoiding association with an individual or group. It is commonly associated with religious groups following excommunication or dismembership. In some cases, the shunned person or group is considered as anathema, abominable, or spiritually diseased by the shunning group. But if you think about it, shunning is as natural as sleeping. There are situations where shunning is beneficial and situations where shunning is injurious. When little Julie misbehaves and has to sit in a chair in a corner of the room, she is in fact being shunned. When Johnny gets in trouble and is sent to his room, he is in fact being shunned. When you get into an argument with your brother at a family reunion and then don’t speak to each other for years, you are shunning each other. When a group leaves a person out of an event for impractical reasons it is in fact shunning. In today’s society, with everyone demanding individual rights, shunning is accursed because it interferes with ones opportunity to express oneself without regard to the group or established rules. How many times have we read about one person demanding their rights and causing a multitude of folks to change their activity to accommodate the one individual?
The biblical basis of excommunication is anathema. The references are found in Galatians 1:8 “But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be anathema"! Then also, 1 Corinthians 16:22 "If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be anathema". The word can be translated several ways; the King James Version translates it accursed.
Anathema was used in the early church as a form of extreme religious sanction, beyond excommunication. The earliest recorded example was in 306. The Roman Catholic Church still makes use of the sanction, though it is rarely used against an individual. Some modern churches which seek to return to a New Testament form of Christianity refer to any form of exclusion as anathema.
Calvin's view on excommunication
In John Calvin's Institutes of The Christian Religion, he said (4.12.10):
For when our Saviour promises that what his servants bound on earth should be bound in heaven, (Matthew 18: 18), he confines the power of binding to the censure of the Church, which does not consign those who are excommunicated to perpetual ruin and damnation, but assures them, when they hear their life and manners condemned, that perpetual damnation will follow if they do not repent. [Excommunication] rebukes and animadverts upon his manners; and although it ... punishes, it is to bring him to salvation, by forewarning him of his future doom. If it succeeds, reconciliation and restoration to communion are ready to be given. ... Hence, though ecclesiastical discipline does not allow us to be on familiar and intimate terms with excommunicated persons, still we ought to strive by all possible means to bring them to a better mind, and recover them to the fellowship and unity of the Church: as the apostle also says, "Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother" (2 Thessalonians 3: 15). If this humanity be not observed in private as well as public the danger is that our discipline shall degenerate into destruction.
Some Reformed churches today do not make use of excommunication (or church discipline in its lesser forms), though it is often still required by their constitutions.
Common Sense, are you being shunned by a group and feel it is an act that is morally wrong and/or unbiblical? |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 417
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.57.149
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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You shun for some deep dreadful sin...not because people change churches... |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 375
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:41 pm: |
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Common if you like we can exchange ideas via email to avoid the juvenile interruptions.
My email is pure-heart40@hotmail.com |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 420
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.61.203
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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Not quite as juvenile as you think... |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 379
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:53 pm: |
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My email is pure-heart40@hotmail.com |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 380
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:59 pm: |
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May I rephrase the sentence…….. Common if you like we can exchange ideas via email to avoid the unfortunate interruptions. |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 423
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.137.49
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:48 pm: |
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:39 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know how many are reading the newspaper, watching television but have had some calls from the US..
It is dangerous today where we are they are in open battle right on the streets...according to sources 60 policemen have been killed.
The stores are closed, banks closed, schools closed and churches are not having services...
Please pray. |
pureheart
Intermediate Member
Username: pureheart
Post Number: 382
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.40.43.90
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:56 pm: |
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WE ARE PRAYING |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 841
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |
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pureheart,
Calling ML's statement either "juvenile" or "unfortunate" is casting aspersion on Scripture since she was stating the biblical teaching on the matter. Please show me where "shunning" or "marking" was called into application in the NT against brothers or sisters in Christ who were NOT guilty of unrepentant gross immorality.
Any group that practices an unbiblical form of shunning or marking but claims God's approval on it is causing injury. Period. Choose to defend it if you will, but you are defending a perversion of God's Word and injury done in His Name. |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 429
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.57.142
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:30 pm: |
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I saw if first hand....families divided...I cannot think that this is a true cristian spirit...
PH no doubt means well but has no first hand knowledge of the pain, the agony of seperation of families because some group teaches they are the "ONLY" truth....and to leave there is to leave God...
It is so sad...the saddest thing I have ever come across as a christian. |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 842
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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... has no first hand knowledge of the pain, the agony of seperation of families because some group teaches they are the "ONLY" truth....and to leave there is to leave God...
It is so sad...the saddest thing I have ever come across as a christian.
I, too, have seen it first hand, ML, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, there are way too many groups practicing this deception. |
dowen
Advanced Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 556
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:01 pm: |
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CS,
You have seen HH commit the things that ML falsly accuses them of first hand" Are you sure? Or are you so drunk off attacking groups of people that your vision may be blurred just a little?
If my hunch is correct, in that you have never even visited HH, then I can assure you that HH does NOT believe they are the only way to Heaven. Either ML is lying through her teeth on this matter, or she is delusional. I know not which.
Truth be told, her denomination is far more radical in it's teaching of "our way is the only way" theology than HH on it's worst day.
As I have said before, one day she will find herself on her own Damascus road, with God asking her why she is persecuting Him. Lord hasten that day.
(Message edited by dowen on May 15, 2006) |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 430
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.142.60
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:36 pm: |
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ROXIE RAY told me they had the greatest light...and that was why she was preparing "food" Meat for days ahead because the other churches would come to them.
I AM NO A LIAR..............
You prove HH is right and go live there you little..............
I sat in their sessions and heard BA laugh at other churches... |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 843
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:01 pm: |
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CS,
You have seen HH commit the things that ML falsly accuses them of first hand"
No, dowen, and I have never claimed to. But I HAVE experienced firsthand exactly what ML described and I quoted. I'm not sure how stating such qualifies as an attack. |
dowen
Advanced Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 558
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:21 pm: |
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Sorry CS, I meant that line you quoted as a question...I should have corrected my punctuation before I posted.
ML,
I find it difficult to converse with you, simply because many of the accusations you hurl at HH are falsehoods. You know, in your heart of hearts, that HH does not believe they are the only way to Salvation.
I too accused HH of believing that, several years ago. It was an easy out for me, a way that I could write HH of as a cult. It was, simply put, the lazy mans route. I was truly scared to dig into the real issues that separated myself from HH. I was a coward, I took easy street.
Are you not doing the same?
You have bad mouthed HH for not reaching out to you after you turned your back on them, why don't you be the better person and reach out to them? HH is not writing on this board, bad mouthing you and your ministry! They are not on a campaign to destroy your Churches! They have not exposed things you shared with them in private! They have not spat upon your Ministry as you have spat upon theirs! Who is the bigger person here. Who is the better person here.
It is all too clear to me.
"You prove HH is right and go live there you little.............. "
Hummm. Maybe we can have some fun here and try to guess what name ML "almost" called me.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought she was a Missionary for Jesus... |
praxaluh
Intermediate Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 155
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:24 pm: |
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Hi Folks,
"people change churches"
the bane of denominationalism.
You better treat me good, Pastor Milquetoast, because if you don't, I will go to the church down the block. They have better cake after service anyway. And I have an in with the choir-meister.
The problem can be in the whole structure.
And the defacto one-fold ministry, where the pastor really has a feifdom, a territorial dib locked within a limited denominational doctrinal pattern.
This is a big topic, yet it touches to the heart of many Godly patterns that have come through HH.
Often the churches are shells, far from the depth and power to which the New Testament believers are called.
'Choosing a church', 'changing churches' is man's autonomy, subject to his whims and rebellions. God's sovereignty is denied.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 844
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:00 pm: |
|
I can assure you that HH does NOT believe they are the only way to Heaven.
There has been a lot of denial of alleged HH beliefs by those in support of HH, now I'm interested in hearing your viewpoint of what they DO believe.
So, dowen, what IS the gospel according to HH? How do they view the spiritual state of those who leave HH? What is their perspective on other believers outside of HH? What is their belief regarding the Body of Christ? What kind of authority structure is there? I've seen the mention of "patterns" -- what specifically are those and what does adherence to them accomplish? |
dowen
Advanced Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 559
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:07 pm: |
|
I have followed many of your discussions CS, and I wonder why you ask me the above questions. Of all the posters on FN, you are one of the most outspoken and opinionated. You always seem to think you know the "Truth", no matter what the discussion. I have noted your tactics all over FN, and I sincerely doubt your motive in asking me the above questions. You are only trying to get to share part of what HH believes, so you can attack it. That I cannot do.
Maybe I am wrong in my assessment of you, but all I have to go by is your history of posts on FN. So far, you seem to be a troll. |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 845
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:14 pm: |
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Outspoken, opinionated, think I know the "truth"...looks like I'm in good company, dowen! 
My questions are quite sincere, and I am at a loss as to why you would be reluctant to answer them. Seems like I'm giving you the perfect opportunity to set the record straight regarding HH! What better way to prove the accusations wrong than to present the truth? |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 434
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.138.244
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:15 pm: |
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Nice language for a "christian" |
common_sense
Advanced Member
Username: common_sense
Post Number: 846
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.237.48.140
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:18 pm: |
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BTW, if you're going to label me as a "troll," can I at least be a droll troll?  |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 436
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.57.62
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:31 am: |
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Have you ever noticed how fighting mad people become when truth is revealed about HH?
CS the reason Dowen protects there is because of his folks but he himself does not even live there, practice what is taught there. What he really knows if he spoke the truth (if he knows it) he would be banished...just like TH that has family there....It is a very sad unbelieveable teaching that anyone from there would deny but those that have suffered at their hands KNOW to be true.
If I had not KNOWN the story about TH parents by what I was told at HH I would have thought them rebellious headed for hell folks but I happened to stay around long enough and found out rebellous headed to hell folks are people that speak out against their authority Jesus in the flesh message.
PH means well BUT knows NOTHING and if you ever go there for months and years you too will know nothing their "doctrine" comes in levels as people are able to recieve it!
Prax was once a member there but he really has no idea of their "NOW" practices.
I do believe they started off with a wonderful plan but power, prestige is so easy to go to peoples heads...People become gods instead of just human beings...
Power becomes a means of what you can and cannot do.
I am a rock in their shoes for they once bragged to me that those that left went off into this or that doctrine...BUT I have never changed other than the fact I made a mistake for thinking they believed like oneness Pentecostals....then I sat in a service where BA mocked Pentecostals...
Whether oneness Penetcostals are right or wrong is not my reason for being on here. I am here to say all that authority, Jesus in the flesh stuff is out of balance.
I respect men of God. I ask men of God to help us on our journey just like I said to them...help us...I want to be saved...but I did not realize help us meant taking a death covenant...that if you leave there you divorce God...so TH and hundreds more including myself are divorced from God our only hope according to my missionary mom is accept their leadership...I refuse to do that.
I refuse to work under a group of men that set themselves up as Jesus in the flesh and if you don't bow to their every wish you are rebellous.
I saw with my eyes, not hear me, told me, I think so...I saw with my eyes leaders SCREAM and point their fingers in peoples face. I saw things that truth hunter mentioned...People talked to me. I saw and recieved in my hand a magazine that someone wanted me to read and said, Keep it hid." Don't mention this to the brothers...
I went a certain place (not sinful) with someone from there and they said, "Never mention this to the brothers".
Could I live a life that I would tremble and be afraid of my pastor? NO
Would I want my sheep to be afraid of me and follow me because the judgments of God is held over their heads?
NO, a thousdand times no...That is not true love it is a mockery of Calvary's love.
Would I respect leaders that cannot make up their mind God's will?
Would I respect leaders that use my name for gain?
NO< I lost all respect for them...whatever good that is there and there is good there but the leadship destroys the good in my opinion.
I write not as I have been called.....trying to destroy them...I write weeping for of all places I have ever visited in 40 years as a missionary I thought I had found an ideal setup...
So beautiful on the outside.... |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 437
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.57.62
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:36 am: |
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Prax has accused me of wanting to sue on another thread because I mentioned my lawyer...I said nothing about sueing anybody.
He is taking my wording out of context. My lawyer reads most everything I write...we are good friends...PRAX: I HAVE NEVER GONE TO COURT IN MY LIFE TO SUE ANYONE AND DON'T PLAN TO START NOW...ALL IS IN GOD'S HANDS. |
praxaluh
Intermediate Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 160
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Hi Folks,
Ok, that is good to hear. Earlier you were reporting your lawyer's legal opinion, even of a specific words. The implication appeared to be that you would want to take legal action, since you were specifically highlighting his status as a lawyer. Good to hear that he is being referenced simply as a friend, or confidant.
And Mrs. Alvear, I discussed in some depth the idea that HH is fundamentally different today than in the early days. Tis really not the case, tis a myth propagated by the disaffected in order to try to buttress each others anger and bitterness. One goal is to marginalize the many clearly excellent fruits in the lives of the believers, and the development of patterns that are far more 1st century apostolic than denominational churchianity.
In fact you would have a very hard time separating the authority and structure of HH from the special move of conmunity and discipleship and deep, dedicated ministry. They really are linked closely, and have been from the early days.
Now, you are very happy now to ally yourself with anybody who left, or who attacks HH for any reason. Your ears are itching for accusations.
Rather than let God move, and really minister through the difficult days where you felt the ministry demanded too much ... instead you have boxed your own anger into a corner.
My heart to you is to reconsider your program, try to recapture a sense of wonder and balance, to be slow to accuse, to try to put aside self-justification. Allow God to renew a new heart, and ask Him to bring forth a spirit of reconciliation, fellowship and respect and appreciation.
This does not mean that you would go back to an earlier day, simply that you would build today anew with grace and respect.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 444
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.100.66
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 8:54 pm: |
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Prax you just don't get it. Who are they to demand of me?
Mr Avery...you do not know me if you knew the things I do not care to put here you would understand my protection of the Brazil work. Whatever you may know is through HH since you were once a member there...You have no knowledge of my person, you have never seen me, so it is you that looks at me through their glasses...
I am deeply committed to truth. I am not angry as you think. I really feel sorry for HH.
If you or even them would care to answer any question I have put on this forum I am listening... |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 449
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.98.102.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:20 pm: |
|
Janalvear@aol.com |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 466
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.152.193.108
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 6:35 pm: |
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and I remain committed to TRUTH..........no matter the personal cost and it is great but TRUTH to me means everything... |
missionary_lady
Intermediate Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 125
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 189.3.11.119
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 6:50 pm: |
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I still remain committed to TRUTH... |
